Reverse sexism at Simon Fraser

Long live the Men’s Centre

Photograph by Brian Howell

On May 1st, my friend Josh Dehaas wrote an article on this website about a Simon Fraser University student named Keenan Midgley who wanted to start a “Men’s Centre” to complement his university’s “Women’s Centre”–the kind that exists on nearly every Canadian university campus today.

Like the women’s centre, the men’s centre would provide a safe space for its respective gender, one in which to discuss (to quote former SFSS president Jeff McCann) “men’s issues and mental wellness and all the different things that come along with that.” As Keenan Midgley pointed out to Dehaas, suicides, alcoholism, and drug use, are more prominent among young men than they are among women.  Not that it’s a competition.

Or maybe it is…

That’s the impression I got from the video below, created, I suspect, by some of the most unsympathetic and over-educated people on the planet (I actually lost count of how many times one of the interviewees uses the phrase “hegemonic patriarchy.”) At no time did Midgley or McCann (who was on the CBC this morning promoting his cause) suggest that their proposed men’s centre would curb women’s rights or extract funds from the school’s existing women’s centre, but the people in this video—and those opposed to the very idea of a men’s centre in general—are under the impression that a safe space for men is a dangerous place for women. Or as some of the video’s contributors warn, “a highly masculinized space… a room with a PS3 and a bunch of douche bags playing video games”…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fiMg8N79Us

Which is awfully strange because you’d think that women wary of stereotypical fraternity culture (i.e. a room full of douche bags) would be the first to embrace the men’s centre. After all it’s fraternity culture—the kind that assumes men don’t need safe spaces in which to discuss their feelings and insecurities; the kind that lauds cat calling and “slut shaming”— that the men’s centre would likely do without.

Or not.

Either way, however, calling McCann and Midgley patriarchal, hegemonic, douche bags is not a valid argument against their proposal. Neither, for that matter, is weighing your group’s struggles against another’s. Just because group A (insert women/Jews/blacks here) has more problems than group B (white men) doesn’t mean group B shouldn’t seek help.

Or deserve a safe space of its own.




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Reverse sexism at Simon Fraser

    • Nice appeal to dogma, but that’s not the making of a sound argument.

      I’ve never heard a sensible argument presented by any of the opponents of the men’s centre. Some of the criticisms are downright sexist. “Douchebags playing Xbox?”

      There’s no negative stereotype of University men in that statement, is there?

      • I wasn’t appealing to dogma, or making an argument….I was pointing out that’s what the opposition is based on.

  1. This comment was deleted.

    • And how does a men’s centre, in any way, trivialize the historic oppression of women? Men are a minority at SFU and have issues of their own. How does setting up a rudimentary support structure for them harm women?

      Is this a zero-sum game? Does supporting males at SFU somehow mean that women will receive less or worse support? Unlike yourself, I’m not trying to be cute. Seriously, what’s your actual problem with this?

      • She is a feminist so naturally she is against any pro male initiative.

        • I’m just against stupid.

          • Then how about some rational discussion rather than ridicule, mocking, and derision. Step up.

          • You’re probably in the right here, but your posting style makes it hard for people to agree with you.

          • Could be. But I don’t seek agreement on internet comment boards. If somebody is completely out to lunch or an extremist, I’m not going to bother with pretending I respect their opinion just because they learned how to type.

          • Fair deal – it’s pretty infuriating sometimes. I personally enjoy arguing with idiots to some extent, at least if they’re willing to respond to my points rather than just papering over them with rhetoric. Hard to get that with people that have really entrenched beliefs, though – and I imagine the reader base here is pretty conservative, this being Macleans and all.

          • Based on your comments here, then, you must have self-hatred issues.

        • What pro-male initiatives do we really need? Where are we being held down? Find a single piece of factual evidence indicating men – especially university-attending ones – are even remotely being marginalized in Canada. I dare ya.

          Women and LGBT groups are still marginalized, though less than they have been in the past, and so having spaces for them makes sense.

          Men are still a very privileged group, and as such we don’t need “safe spaces” beyond the men’s bathroom.

          • Custody discrimination. Child support abuses. Public services
            discrimination. Male DV and sexual assault victims not receiving any
            help. Men falling way behind in education. Prisons that are full of
            almost exclusively men. Men constituting 92% of workplace deaths, 91%
            of the homeless, and 82% of all suicide victims.

            Men receiving harsher sentences than women for the same crimes.

            Women still have plenty of issues, but men do face discrimination in the courts and are disproportionately represented amongst the lowest ranks of society by a huge margin. It’s called the “glass basement.” Look it up.

          • Custody discrimination. Child support abuses. Public services
            discrimination. Male DV and sexual assault victims not receiving any
            help. Men falling way behind in education. Prisons that are full of
            almost exclusively men. Men constituting 92% of workplace deaths, 91%
            of the homeless, and 82% of all suicide victims.

            Men receiving harsher sentences than women for the same crimes.

            Women still have plenty of issues, but men do face discrimination in the courts and are disproportionately represented amongst the lowest ranks of society by a huge margin. It’s called the “glass basement.” Look it up.

          • Custody discrimination. Child support abuses. Public services
            discrimination. Male DV and sexual assault victims not receiving any
            help. Men falling way behind in education. Prisons that are full of
            almost exclusively men. Men constituting 92% of workplace deaths, 91%
            of the homeless, and 82% of all suicide victims.

            Men receiving harsher sentences than women for the same crimes.

            Women still have plenty of issues, but men do face discrimination in the courts and are disproportionately represented amongst the lowest ranks of society by a huge margin. It’s called the “glass basement.” Look it up.

          • Custody discrimination. Child support abuses. Public services
            discrimination. Male DV and sexual assault victims not receiving any
            help. Men falling way behind in education. Prisons that are full of
            almost exclusively men. Men constituting 92% of workplace deaths, 91%
            of the homeless, and 82% of all suicide victims.

            Men receiving harsher sentences than women for the same crimes.

            Women still have plenty of issues, but men do face discrimination in the courts and are disproportionately represented amongst the lowest ranks of society by a huge margin. It’s called the “glass basement.” Look it up.

          • Custody discrimination. Child support abuses. Public services
            discrimination. Male DV and sexual assault victims not receiving any
            help. Men falling way behind in education. Prisons that are full of
            almost exclusively men. Men constituting 92% of workplace deaths, 91%
            of the homeless, and 82% of all suicide victims.

            Men receiving harsher sentences than women for the same crimes.

            Women still have plenty of issues, but men do face discrimination in the courts and are disproportionately represented amongst the lowest ranks of society by a huge margin. It’s called the “glass basement.” Look it up.

          • Custody discrimination. Child support abuses. Public services
            discrimination. Male DV and sexual assault victims not receiving any
            help. Men falling way behind in education. Prisons that are full of
            almost exclusively men. Men constituting 92% of workplace deaths, 91%
            of the homeless, and 82% of all suicide victims.

            Men receiving harsher sentences than women for the same crimes.

            Women still have plenty of issues, but men do face discrimination in the courts and are disproportionately represented amongst the lowest ranks of society by a huge margin. It’s called the “glass basement.” Look it up.

          • Custody discrimination. Child support abuses. Public services
            discrimination. Male DV and sexual assault victims not receiving any
            help. Men falling way behind in education. Prisons that are full of
            almost exclusively men. Men constituting 92% of workplace deaths, 91%
            of the homeless, and 82% of all suicide victims.

            Men receiving harsher sentences than women for the same crimes.

            Women still have plenty of issues, but men do face discrimination in the courts and are disproportionately represented amongst the lowest ranks of society by a huge margin. It’s called the “glass basement.” Look it up.

          • These numbers are not quite correct, at least for SFU. At SFU, women are 56% of the student body, but numbers don’t translate into power, except during elections. In terms of Metro Vancouver homelessness, the percentage of men making up the demographic is lower, although still somewhat near what you are arguing: 69%. Also, suicide victims have to be compared alongside suicide *attempts*, which women are much more represented in than men. Workplace deaths are unfortunate, but the way the labour market is structured, certain occupations are masculinized, and women are marginalized from even doing those jobs (construction, for example, is both physically dangerous and high paying work, but women are marginalized, setting aside differences in executive class positions between genders). As a guy, I can’t say there aren’t issues I need to deal with, but they are not ones I am oppressed by historically. We don’t live in a matriarchal society, we are most affected by patriarchy. In this society, but not necessarily in every society, a men’s centre has strong potential to reinforce dominant attitudes toward gender and masculinity.

          • Custody discrimination. Child support abuses. Public services
            discrimination. Male DV and sexual assault victims not receiving any
            help. Men falling way behind in education. Prisons that are full of
            almost exclusively men. Men constituting 92% of workplace deaths, 91%
            of the homeless, and 82% of all suicide victims.

            Men receiving harsher sentences than women for the same crimes.

            Women still have plenty of issues, but men do face discrimination in the courts and are disproportionately represented amongst the lowest ranks of society by a huge margin. It’s called the “glass basement.” Look it up.

          • Custody discrimination. Child support abuses. Public services
            discrimination. Male DV and sexual assault victims not receiving any
            help. Men falling way behind in education. Prisons that are full of
            almost exclusively men. Men constituting 92% of workplace deaths, 91%
            of the homeless, and 82% of all suicide victims.

            Men receiving harsher sentences than women for the same crimes.

            Women still have plenty of issues, but men do face discrimination in the courts and are disproportionately represented amongst the lowest ranks of society by a huge margin. It’s called the “glass basement.” Look it up.

          • Custody discrimination. Child support abuses. Public services
            discrimination. Male DV and sexual assault victims not receiving any
            help. Men falling way behind in education. Prisons that are full of
            almost exclusively men. Men constituting 92% of workplace deaths, 91%
            of the homeless, and 82% of all suicide victims.

            Men receiving harsher sentences than women for the same crimes.

            Women still have plenty of issues, but men do face discrimination in the courts and are disproportionately represented amongst the lowest ranks of society by a huge margin. It’s called the “glass basement.” Look it up.

          • “Where are we being held down? Find a single piece of factual evidence indicating men – especially university-attending ones – are even remotely being marginalized in Canada. I dare ya.”

            Sentencing disparity:
            Average sentences for crimes by gender, even when factors such as type of crime committed and history are factored in:

            Female
            – 18.51 months

            Male – 51.52 months
            http://www.terry.uga.edu/~mustard/sentencing.pdf

            “Judge bashes Probation Department for gender bias in favor of leniency for girls”

            http://articles.nydailynews.com/2010-12-01/news/27082827_1_gender-bias-probation-officers-probation-department

            Child cutody (cited below byt Roberta).
            Rape laws:

            The April 4th “Dear
            Colleague” letter issued by the OCR to all colleges that receive federal
            funding, reduces the standard of proof required to convict a male student of
            rape all the way down to “preponderance of evidence” (anything above 50%). The
            directive also requires all universities to allow alleged victims of rape to
            appeal the results of college disciplinary hearings, subjecting the accused to
            “double jeopardy” (which isn’t allowed in the court system). BTW this is at the “university level” which is what you specifically asked for.

            http://thefire.org/case/862

            Military charges more men with bogus rape claims just to show that it takes “sexual assault” seriously.

            http://www.islandpacket.com/2011/11/29/1879908/military-rape-charges-lead-to.html

            Gender specific programs and resources:

            http://www.ofmb.org/p/canon-of-legal-discrimination.html

            Take a look at that link closely and look at the dozens and dozens of programs for women and girls only. Health care (women outlive men), education (girls are doing far better than boys in school and represent 58% of college attendance). Yet every gender specific program is still dedicated to females.

            U.S. Military, Washington State and the
            District of Columbia put the burden on the accused to show consent.

            http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/2011/09/us-military-dc-and-washington-state-now.html

            Actual execution of female offenders is rare, with only 571 documented instances as of
            12/31/2011, beginning with the first in 1632. These executions constitute about
            2.9% of the total of confirmed executions in the US since 1608. Only twelve
            female offenders have been executed since 1976.

            http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/women-and-death-penalty#facts

            Women
            make up only 2.9% of those executed since 1976, but they commit 12% of all
            murder in the US.

            http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/gender.cfm

          • The current ratio of women to men on campus, nationally, is 65/35. That alone would argue that men, more than women, are the maginalized ones on campus today. So if the majority gets their own centre, why begrudge the minority?
            If men don’t need a centre, then presumably the women can do without theirs too.

          • Still waiting for your reply to the facts I posted. I’m guessing you cant reply logically so I guess I proved you wrong about men “not facing any issues”. Run along now mouse.

  2. “Just because group A (insert women/Jews/blacks here) has more problems
    than group B (white men) doesn’t mean group B shouldn’t seek help.”

    ^– Here, here. “White Man’s Guilt” is just as much racist as the marginalization of black, asian, jewish etc. groups.

    Speaking as a feminist, I do not see how a Men’s Center would be a direct attack on the a women’s association at all. The question of masculinity and what exactly it means to be “masculine”, what it means to be “male” is a question that continues to be unquestioned and almost shunned by our society. This needs to be confronted and changed immediately and the Men’s Center seems to be a step in the right direction.

    • The base idea is that any money being or is free to be spent on men’s issues should have been spent on women’s issues. Until people stop believing men are bigger than life, invincible, and able to do/ cope with anything this will not end.This perception has to end. Just because i can front confidence and have physical strength does not mean i am not human and have the same associated problems.

    • Thank you, Mel, for being more open-minded than your closed-minded “feminist” sisters. (Assuming you are female, I can’t tell with with a comment name like “Mel”)

      Equality means things are TRULY equal. The same opportunities are afforded to and encouraged by everyone, not just half of the population.

  3. Men won’t attend. Approve it and let it die.

    • Probably ture. The campaign against is also telling.

      At what point do men become a group worth any amount of concern or social support? There are university campuses where men are outnumbered two to one. Knee-jerk reactions against any initiative to promote the success of males is not helping things, Society is not zero sum. Preventing males from succeeding does not raise women up. See all the men locked up in prisons. Is that a victory for feminism?

    • If they were spending $300 rather than $30,000, maybe.

  4. Wow… definitely reverse sexism and pretty ugly commentary if you ask me. Sounds like the women and their faithful male ‘followers’ are guilty of a lot of the same stereotypes and ignorant viewpoints that they have been fighting against for women. And the douchebag comment was just flat out irresponsible. If that was a bunch of people speaking out against a proposed women center, and using stereotypes like “what do these b*tches hope to accomplish? Build a room where they can sit around and sew or paint their toenails”. People would be outraged if the situation were reversed, and they should be speaking out against these imbeciles. The men’s group aren’t looking to steal funding or take anything away from the womens center, it sounds like they just want an equal opportunity to create an environment where men can deal with their specific issues amongst themselves. Why is that such a hard concept to grasp by supposed “higher learners”?

  5. Emma,

    Thank you for the balanced article…. us men appreciate it.

  6. Thank you for the balanced article. I just listened to CBC’s The Current which gave a platform for the oppositions sexist rhetoric but neglected to include much if any discussion about men’s issues. Reverse sexism at CBC.

  7. Next up, centres where white people can talk about how hard it is for them race wise and the rich can talk about the special burdens of exorbitant wealth.

    • Next up: Centres where women can discuss not getting a better job while Africans starve every day.

      Men have problems, too. And ignoring them as if they don’t matter is just ignorant.

    • Sexist feminist alert.

    • You’re not very bright.

      That is all.

  8. THIRTY THOUSAND DOLLARS???!!!! THIRTY THOUSAND DOLLARS??!!!!!

    • What is the budget for the women’s center. Both during its initial funding and its operational cost.

      • The exact same. There’s more than a hint the reactionaries on the student counsel did it out of spite. Where’s the adult supevision on campus?

        • Sounds like equality to me.

          • It sounds like treating everybody the same, rather than treating them “equally”. it’s important to learn the difference.

          • So what you’re saying, is that some pigs are more equal than others?

          • It sounds like treating everybody the same, rather than treating them “equally”. it’s important to learn the difference.

          • So what you’re saying is you are more interested in revenge and equity than fairness and equality? Do you know what equal means?

          • So what you’re saying is you are more interested in revenge and equity than fairness and equality? Do you know what equal means?

          • So the best way to achieve equality is through discrimination? What a fascinating idea?

            Sounds like treating everyone the same is the very definition of equity, or at least that’s what I thought.

          • So the best way to achieve equality is through discrimination? What a fascinating idea?

            Sounds like treating everyone the same is the very definition of equity, or at least that’s what I thought.

          • Yup, me too.

            Same funding. Where’s the problem?

      • The SFU Women’s Centre receives about 30k in programming funding plus another 70k in staffing and office expenses for a total of about $100,000 annually.

  9. Let’s have a men’s centre when women don’t face discrimination in a university setting. Or when 1 in 4 women in university are not sexually assaulted. There’s no need for a men’s centre. Anything they are trying to achieve can be done through an expansion of mental health services.

    • [citation needed]

      By that logic, we shouldn’t do anything if a woman is raped. You live in a first world country, do you have any idea how lucky you are? Until Africa is on par with us, you have no right to complain.

    • Hi Bee. Thank you for reading. I think the problem is that the majority of men won’t seek help unless there is a place for them to do so. The kind of tough guy machismo modern feminism dislikes isn’t just harmful to women; it’s harmful to men as well in that it prevents them from seeking the help that they need. Research validates this. There is also a lot of stigma behind mental health issues. And walking into the “men’s centre” is probably a lot less intimidating than walking into a shrink’s office. Just as walking into the women’s centre to discuss sexual assault is often a less daunting first step for many women before they call the police or seek counselling. It’s a safe space in part because nobody knows why you’re there.

      • Mental health stigma affects everyone, not just men. If most of the issues are mental health related, it would make sense for mental health services to expand. This does not mean “shrinks”, but things like open circle discussions and campaigns to fight against current mental health stereotypes, which could easily run men’s programs as well. Also, the term shrink is a derogatory term for mental health professionals. It trivializes much of the work these professionals accomplish and by using the term, you are in fact perpetuating mental health stigma.

        • Thank you for the well-thought out post.

      • If the men’s centre is known as a place where you go to get mental help, the problem persists. If it doesn’t, the fears of its detractors are realized.

        It also doesn’t explain the big need to make it men only – it’s unlikely men aren’t seeking mental help because it isn’t available in a place where women aren’t allowed in the front door.

      • Men aren’t oppressed. You do realize that, right?

        • Sure they are. They’re just oppressed in different ways.

          You sound incredibly ignorant, right now. Child custody discrimination, criminal sentencing discrimination, men are: 91% of the homeless, 92% of workplace deaths, 89% of incarcerated criminals, and 82% of all suicides.

          Men very much have their own issues.

          • This comment was deleted.

          • So you are part of the man boobz crowd. Well that explains your opposition to this.

          • This comment was deleted.

          • That’s how we identify an irrational bigot by association with feminist sychophant moobs.

        • Hey! Can you hear me all the way back there in the 1970′s?

          Open your eyes. Wake up.

          You live in 2012, men are very much oppressed.

          You just choose not to see it because you don’t want to change an outdated and WRONG belief of yours.

  10. Well said! At any rate, these women should consider that men who need it having access to some help may actually make things better for women.

    • There’s not much hint of that. All there is $30,000 and a “no girls allowed!” sign.

    • That’s a very valid point.

      Someone who wouldn’t otherwise have knowledge available to others can gain access to that knowledge in a safe environment.

      Educating people is the answer. Education will improve society for all human beings.

  11. This comment was deleted.

    • Looks like your gnashing the very teeth too many of your peers were afraid to. At least this guy is honest.

      • Yes, because hateful name-calling will help solve this issue. WTG.

  12. Facing
    up to the reality of women’s issues has changed our society;facing up
    to the reality of men’s issues will change our civilization.

    • This thought struck me as one of the most cogent here. Thank you for eloquently voicing my thoughts.

    • Name an issue you have as a man that makes you feel oppressed, ostracized, or even mildly embarrassed, that you think other men share and therefore warrants a “safe space.” I’m not trying to take the piss. I’m honestly asking what “men’s issues” are. The term gets used a lot in the promotion of this proposed centre, but no elaboration or specification is given.

      • Family violence, rape, assault, shame of weakness, social pressure. I could go on.

        • Rape? Really? Here’s what I found: In the states, it’s estimated that 91% of rape victims are female and 9% are male, with 99% of the offenders being male and 1% of the offenders being female. Yet the majority of male rape occurs in penitentiaries. So how does this apply to male academics?

          I can see the need for counseling in the other issues you mention, but if you can go on, please do. Because those issues would probably be dealt with the same way they are at the women’s centre: passing the victim on to on-campus counselors.

          • Family issues. Relationship issues. Social issues. Sex issues. Commiseration with regard to the job market, or politics, or classes, or any goddamned thing. Substance abuse; sex/love addiction. It could serve as a forum for those with social anxieties to come together with a common purpose in mind — be it to play Halo or shoot the shit.

            This climate of anti-masculinism makes me sick.

          • Agree with every reply here. You’re ignorance of male issues is incredible. And just because male rape is rare outside of prison, doesn’t mean that when it does happen there shouldn’t be a forum to get help for it! Your attitude is disgusting.

          • Not saying there shouldn’t be a forum, but I was at least considering the likelihood of having actual students to help when the percentage of potential victims are so low (perhaps 1 or 2 males in all of SFU).

            I also find it interesting that you say my “ignorance of male issues is incredible.” Is it really? Consider how men NEVER talk about any of their problems (a male-developed issue that can’t really be blamed on females, who more often than not, ask men to share more but are ignored). Consider how in the very articles regarding this men’s centre (for or against) say that men do not seek help, and that even if this centre gets approved, it’s hard to say if men will even use it as a support facility. Men commenting in this thread have said themselves they doubt the facility would be made useful for its intended purposes if it is known to be a place for mental/emotional support, because there is a stigma among men that seeking help is weak.

            I’m NOT saying that means they shouldn’t have a centre, in fact, I never said I wasn’t in favour of the centre at all!

            You really imagined what you wanted to read based on my skepticism of the reality of “men’s issues” because I had never heard of such things before. That doesn’t make me ignorant, especially when I ask NICELY and in good faith if those who know could elaborate on what these issues might be. If not knowing innately what men’s issues are (sorry, I don’t have the right equipment), and then asking others about it results in me getting my head bitten off with crazy assumptions and insults, I can tell you now that the centre will remain controversial, misunderstood, and shrouded in criticism. You’re really not helping your cause.

          • Maybe one of the issues they could discuss is the fact that they never share more is because in their male psyche it would make them think they’re being weak. Then maybe these types of discussions would help them realize others feel the same way. Maybe they just need a place to go to in order to ask other men about other male issues. Maybe something regarding their sexual health that they’d rather ask a guy about to see if it’s normal or whatever. Or maybe they just need a space to get away from girls and shoot the shit.

          • ” because I had never heard of such things before. That doesn’t make me ignorant,” Yes it does, that is the defenitian of ignorance.
            “especially when I ask NICELY and in good faith ”
            No you asked in a profoundly snarky way with a few sarcastic “really”s thrown in to discredit , and if you were really interested why not do a quick google search there are dozens of good sites dedicated to mens issues. In the off chance you REALLY want to learn, im going to reccomend you start with this youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h97RsyEAPk0&feature=player_embedded

          • Yeah agree with B-Rex – if you have not heard of something then, by definition, you are ignorant of it. Your comment ‘men NEVER (your emphasis) talk about their issues’ is a perfect illustration of this. I am a man. I talk about my issues with all of my male and, indeed, female friends. That fact alone would make you very very wrong about this. This may also come as a surprise but you don’t need ‘the right equipment’ to understand male issues, just a sense of empathy and for you to accept that not all, and perhaps not even most, men live up to the stereotypical ‘never talking, wouldn’t seek help’ idea you seem to have embeded in your mind. The very fact you are skeptical that males have issues is why you are receiving a lot of negative response here. Every human being has issues from time to time and deserves help, love and support when they do. If all the womens centre does is refer people, if thats seen as a good thing then why can’t that be what the mens centre does? You have an odd & highly femino-centric approach to life but I hope the comments here will help steer you right.

          • Depends on what studies you are refering to and it’s quite irrelevant who the offender is when a men’s center would be dealing with the affect on victims.
            Other studies have shown the rates of sexual coercion to be quite similar between men and women. Shouldn’t men learn how to deal with sexual coercion?

          • I wasn’t talking about who the male-rape offenders are, I was talking about who the victims are. If statistics show that male-rape is already incredibly rare, then you add the aspect that it’s mainly behind bars, I honestly ask how that applies as a useful program at a suburban university. It’s a matter of possible victims able to be helped. If SFU’s student body is somewhere around 30,000, and only 44-ish percent of that is men, then by the numbers in the statistics given, less that two men attending SFU might be rape victims. I’m not trying to put down male-rape victims, or say they are any less of a victim than women, but what I am saying is that I am concerned men are simply using a lot of these reasons for a centre that won’t really end up being what the centre is used for because there simply aren’t even enough numbers of men that suffer what many women suffer from (myself included).

            On the other point you brought up, yes, if sexual coercion is an issue (to which I don’t know much about), and actually has more than one in 30,000 suffering from it, then that is valid.

          • I wasn’t talking about who the male-rape offenders are, I was talking about who the victims are. If statistics show that male-rape is already incredibly rare, then you add the aspect that it’s mainly behind bars, I honestly ask how that applies as a useful program at a suburban university. It’s a matter of possible victims able to be helped. If SFU’s student body is somewhere around 30,000, and only 44-ish percent of that is men, then by the numbers in the statistics given, less that two men attending SFU might be rape victims. I’m not trying to put down male-rape victims, or say they are any less of a victim than women, but what I am saying is that I am concerned men are simply using a lot of these reasons for a centre that won’t really end up being what the centre is used for because there simply aren’t even enough numbers of men that suffer what many women suffer from (myself included).

            On the other point you brought up, yes, if sexual coercion is an issue (to which I don’t know much about), and actually has more than one in 30,000 suffering from it, then that is valid.

          • I wasn’t talking about who the male-rape offenders are, I was talking
            about who the victims are. If statistics show that male-rape is already
            incredibly rare, then you add the aspect that it’s mainly behind bars, I
            honestly ask how that applies as a useful program at a suburban
            university. It’s a matter of possible victims able to be helped. If
            SFU’s student body is somewhere around 30,000, and only 44-ish percent
            of that is men, then by the numbers in the statistics given, less that
            two men attending SFU might be rape victims. I’m not trying to put down
            male-rape victims, or say they are any less of a victim than women, but
            what I am saying is that I am concerned men are simply using a lot of
            these reasons for a centre that won’t really end up being what the
            centre is used for because there simply aren’t even enough numbers of
            men that suffer what many women suffer from (myself included).

            On the other point you brought up, yes, if sexual coercion is an issue
            (to which I don’t know much about), and actually has more than one in
            30,000 suffering from it, then that is valid.

          • It’s not just about rape. Men are the greatest victims of all violent crimes.
            Or is rape more important than being mugged and murdered?

          • Your comment shows that you are in serious need of the “sensitivity” training that is said to be needed by some men.
            Most men will not report being raped. Anyone who does thier research (IE not you) knows this. It is also a fact that a woman charged with a sex crime will ALWAYS get a lesser sentence than a man.
            Your complete lack of sensitivity on this matter illustrates the point. Some women have become so jaded by the now ancient women’s lib propaganda that they can’t even see that it is starting to swing the other way. It is now men who are starting to be discriminated against.
            Especially given how many support groups women have why can’t men have a support group? If women and men are equal, why do women need support groups but men do not? How can you justify saying men do not have a rights to a Men’s center?

          • When men have a 1 in 2 chance of being abused by their spouse, a 1 in 5 chance of being raped in their lifetime, and make 30% less than their female counterparts at work, (not really ancient propaganda when the statistics are still current), maybe then men won’t have an eyebrow raised at them when they complain that THEY are being discriminated against.

          • Perhaps when women in modern society have virtually no legal protection from rape or its consequences When womens shelters face having their funding removed if WOMEN are sheltered inside. when women make up the majority of workplace deaths work longer hours in less comfortable environmens then i might care about people with opinions like yours.

          • What of men dying on orders of magnitude more per year than women on the job site(93 percent of work related deaths were men last year, in fact every year I imagine)? You see interestingly enough its men in the majority who work the trades, shite jobs, risking life and limb. But thats what we are told we are only good for in many cases. Lift this, move this, run this table saw until you lose a finger. You see having a group that has the ability to address the idea of the “disposable male” is great.
            And a better question, why the heck is rape the bloody lynch pin that holds the feminist idea together, and why has the false rape, misandric society determined that rape, the act of(unproven or otherwise) or accusation of, is in any way worse than oh I dont know, death. Death so you can put food on the table for kids( that you love so dearly), whom your wife is likely to take from you given that over half of marriages end(over 70 percent of divorce are instigated by women). Ive lost trade associates to tools, building homes for self deserving (feminist)women and I myself have given up my share of flesh for this lifetime, but that is less of an issue than everything else( no matter how small) that may effect a women. Hands down it seems that victim mentality has triumphed over equality and common sense. To quote a bloody genius ” Women are human beings and men, well men have been reduced to human doings”

          • What of men dying on orders of magnitude more per year than women on the job site(93 percent of work related deaths were men last year, in fact every year I imagine)? You see interestingly enough its men in the majority who work the trades, shite jobs, risking life and limb. But thats what we are told we are only good for in many cases. Lift this, move this, run this table saw until you lose a finger. You see having a group that has the ability to address the idea of the “disposable male” is great.
            And a better question, why the heck is rape the bloody lynch pin that holds the feminist idea together, and why has the false rape, misandric society determined that rape, the act of(unproven or otherwise) or accusation of, is in any way worse than oh I dont know, death. Death so you can put food on the table for kids( that you love so dearly), whom your wife is likely to take from you given that over half of marriages end(over 70 percent of divorce are instigated by women). Ive lost trade associates to tools, building homes for self deserving (feminist)women and I myself have given up my share of flesh for this lifetime, but that is less of an issue than everything else( no matter how small) that may effect a women. Hands down it seems that victim mentality has triumphed over equality and common sense. To quote a bloody genius ” Women are human beings and men, well men have been reduced to human doings”

          • What of men dying on orders of magnitude more per year than women on the job site(93 percent of work related deaths were men last year, in fact every year I imagine)? You see interestingly enough its men in the majority who work the trades, shite jobs, risking life and limb. But thats what we are told we are only good for in many cases. Lift this, move this, run this table saw until you lose a finger. You see having a group that has the ability to address the idea of the “disposable male” is great.
            And a better question, why the heck is rape the bloody lynch pin that holds the feminist idea together, and why has the false rape, misandric society determined that rape, the act of(unproven or otherwise) or accusation of, is in any way worse than oh I dont know, death. Death so you can put food on the table for kids( that you love so dearly), whom your wife is likely to take from you given that over half of marriages end(over 70 percent of divorce are instigated by women). Ive lost trade associates to tools, building homes for self deserving (feminist)women and I myself have given up my share of flesh for this lifetime, but that is less of an issue than everything else( no matter how small) that may effect a women. Hands down it seems that victim mentality has triumphed over equality and common sense. To quote a bloody genius ” Women are human beings and men, well men have been reduced to human doings”

          • What of dying on orders of magnitude greater at work every year(93 percent of job site deaths are male, every bloody year). What of working the shite jobs and trades? Ive lost friends to tools and have personally given my fair share of flesh, building homes and keeping the feminist women they were built for happy. Would she swing a hammer? No, not likely. Would she risk life and limb three stories up to fix the roof? Not a chance. These are mens issues. Ones we face for those we love. Should we be forced to? No. Men (were forced to) fight the wars to stop tyrants, men died in the millions with nary a female hurt in the process.(see White Feather Campaign a feminist doing).
            We are not disposable as much as gender feminists might want us to be. Because after all rape( real or not) or the accusation of are so much more important to this misandric society of hyper feminism, than death (so long as its one of those penis having men things). Yep death is not as important as rape, real or imagined. The rape figures have been torn up over and over again. The criteria have broadened to include damn near anything( I imagine crossing the road in front of a womans car may be rape soon enough). It seems that in your world only women can suffer, period and only men can cause said suffering. Fabulous that idea eh? This is why MRAs are fighting. This is why parity will exist. Becasue to quote a bloody genius. “Women are human beings and men, well men are just human doings”

          • I know what the White Feather Campaign was. You do realize women were
            banned from fighting on the front lines? Now, women do join armies,
            police forces, etc. But back then, men made the rules and women had
            hardly a say at all. So what’s your point with bringing up war? I’m
            actually curious what relevance you think that has. Also, it was men who
            forced men to fight wars, the last time we had conscription; which I
            also don’t see applying to current issues of the day…the women’s
            centre doesn’t bother with issues that ended almost 100 years ago (they
            don’t offer support for women regarding suffrage or anything like that),
            it focuses on the ones that continue on today.

            Also, how likely is it that university students (at a school that does
            not teach trade skills) need to discuss issues of workplace safety/risk
            of dying on construction sites? Sorry if that doesn’t make sense to me.

            Where do feminists say they want men to be disposable? Where are you
            getting all this from, seriously? I am afraid you’re actually just
            rambling nonsensically. Please explain or link to something remotely
            backing your point that “death is not as important as rape” or that “The
            criteria have broadened to include damn near anything( I imagine
            crossing the road in front of a womans car may be rape soon enough).”

            I want to discuss things that are real. But you seem to be getting
            emotionally wound up and making things up? Not trying to insult you, but
            it really seems like you’re basing this on your feelings, and not
            actual facts.

          • I almost lol’d across the floor. Made it half way. In response. I have a University degree as a Goldsmith. BFA. Trade. Danger every minute.(So I wouldnt recommend the “But Im a university student elitist crap”) The likelihood that a female will be exposed to dangerous jobs, low at best. The likelihood that men (university educated or not) will be,very good at worst if not inevitable. Its an issue that men face that women don’t as often. Yet if a group existed that told men, all those who would listen to not risk their lives for women,or anyone for that matter in shite positions (which barely scratch the surface in risk vs pay)then Im well and truly behind that. My point is that you asked, effectively where do men suffer. What aspect of life do they suffer from? Truly put, we suffer from responsbility and disposability. Jobs that only men do and women see as below them, prostate cancer receives little if any funding for research, divorce being stacked in favour of women, wars( which are not started just by men, Thatcher is a example and by the way, my grandfather say your welcome for your freedom (navy ww2)) but men dont have any choice in these matters either. None. Cant dodge a draft, cant keep your kids, cant even look after our own testies without someone (woman, white knight or other) saying the money would be better spent on breast cancer. A group that teaches men to not shoulder the burden of their wife or significant other will be anathema to gender feminism. The relevance for the war issue is simple. It is something that is suffered almost exclusively by men. Its the disposability behind the idea of war that we want to get across. But the best bit, hilarious as it may be and ironic as hell is “Not trying to insult you, but it really seems like you’re basing this on your feelings, and not actual facts” This is so funny because the entire idea of gender feminism is driven by emotion. Typical. You men cant be oppressed since I woman dont think you can be, it is impossible. So to recap. Men suffer war, death, homelessness, loss of children, jail( debtors prison effectively) at rates exponentially greater than women. And the worst suffering a male has to endure, a whining feminist who just doesnt feel privileged enough. So the next time you see a cranked as hell whiny woman with some crack pot sign about rape which has nothing to back it up, tell her to turn down the emotion you bloody hypocrite. Yes Im angry, many men are, the funny bit, Men can actually do something about it. Anger is a viable response to an injustice, enter….the current feminist dictatorship. Your losing ground. And your scared to death.

          • Its feminists ideology of “patriarchy” that society is dominated by men. men and women make career choices. Women tend to chose safety and flexibility while men choose earnings. yet we talk about women earning 77 cents to the dollar while men work longer hours have longer commutes and are more likely to die. Which do you hear about?
            Anyone who EVER talks about the “glass ceiling” without acknwledgeing the “glass floor”,that men are the majority of the homless the highschool dropouts the injured and killed on the job the victims of violence ect., is either an idiot or a bigot.

          • Have you never heard of alter boys or families with sick twisted uncles, grandparents or Michael Jackson? The funniest thing about your post is that it quotes statistics for a crime, which the National Center for Victims of Crime states, “Rape crisis
            counselors estimate that while only one in 50 raped women report the crime to
            the police, the rates of under-reporting among men are even higher (Brochman,
            1991)”

            http://www.ncvc.org/ncvc/main.aspx?dbName=DocumentViewer&DocumentID=32361

            If you’re going to use statistics, please reference them, even better please don’t quote statistics as proof when the measurable item has proven to be unmeasurable.

            Family abuse, spousal abuse, academic pressures, reverse sexism (such as this video contains and worse,) relationship problems, drug addiction, alcoholism, STD issues, unplanned pregnancy (yes real men have to deal with pregnancy too)… Those are a few of the issues that could be discussed at a Men’s Center could assist young men with.

          • Have you never heard of alter boys or families with sick twisted uncles, grandparents or Michael Jackson? The funniest thing about your post is that it quotes statistics for a crime, which the National Center for Victims of Crime states, “Rape crisis
            counselors estimate that while only one in 50 raped women report the crime to
            the police, the rates of under-reporting among men are even higher (Brochman,
            1991)”

            http://www.ncvc.org/ncvc/main.aspx?dbName=DocumentViewer&DocumentID=32361

            If you’re going to use statistics, please reference them, even better please don’t quote statistics as proof when the measurable item has proven to be unmeasurable.

            Family abuse, spousal abuse, academic pressures, reverse sexism (such as this video contains and worse,) relationship problems, drug addiction, alcoholism, STD issues, unplanned pregnancy (yes real men have to deal with pregnancy too)… Those are a few of the issues that could be discussed at a Men’s Center could assist young men with.

          • um, Barak Obama’s newest legislation (in the Lilly Ledbetter act) is to help male victims of rape. They are almost all prisoners, or were raped in jail. If the president of the USA thinks it’s important, don’t you think Canada should at least agree it is an actual issue?

          • um, Barak Obama’s newest legislation (in the Lilly Ledbetter act) is to help male victims of rape. They are almost all prisoners, or were raped in jail. If the president of the USA thinks it’s important, don’t you think Canada should at least agree it is an actual issue?

          • The reason government statistics on male rape are so low is that they use a different definition. Rape to the general population means forced or coerced sex, to the government it means something a little different. The new definition according to the new FBI definition only covers penetration (of the penis mouth or anus) with a finger, object, or penis. so even with the new “male inclusive” definition of rape, “rape by envelopment” is not real rape, so unless statutory rape,which is quite hard to do when a woman is involved, can be proven or stimulation of the prostate took place, virtually nothing a woman can do would be called rape.
            Speaking of statutory rape, males who are victims of statutory rape can be forced to pay child support. While some states have special provisions that allow for forced statutory rape to be exempted most don’t and in 2 states (California and Missouri) male children can be sent to jail for failure to pay.
            In 2011 a man in France was forced to pay damages to his wife for failing to provide her with enough sex, of course the man complained that he was both working long hours and had prostate health issues, but the court ignored that altogether. Endorsement of spousal rape anyone?
            Once you get away from the gendered definitions of rape you start to find more male victims and most studies using the definition of rape being Sex obtained through physical force, exploitation of a persons incapacitated state, and verbal coercion you often find near parity. One study

            Women’s Sexual Aggression Against Men: Prevalence and Predictors found that “Exploitation of the man’s incapacitated state was used most frequently
            (5.6%), followed by verbal pressure (3.2%) and physical force (2%). An
            additional 5.4% reported attempted acts of sexual aggression.” Thats 15% of women having either raped or attempted to rape a man.

            The only country i know of that a woman can rape a man through simple intercourse is isriel and im sure you can guess how well that meshes with feminists (http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=169522)
            Simply put, the only reason rape of men is considered so rare is that our society says it cant exists, that having a penis is equal to consent and having a vagina is automatic victimhood.
            When I was on campus, in order to keep my job it was required that i wear a shirt stating “potential rapist” on it, and women were given. but not required to wear, shirts stating “potential victim” this, and other events like walk a mile, is done in colleges and universities across the globe because of a feminist narative that women are victims and men are aggressors, it is necessary to prove patriarchy and creates a vicious cycle that prevents men from ever being recognized or supported as victims.

          • Check out the 2010 CDC study in the US, where in the last 12 months, men and women experienced rape and forced envelopment (IE, a woman forcing sex on a man is not defined under the term rape, hence all those studies denying men are raped) were virtually identical. in both cases, in the 12 month period, approximately 1.1 % of the population of both genders experienced this rape or forced envelopment. Of the men victimizated, 80% of their attackers were women.

            I’m curious. given you actually acknowledge the rest, why do you continue opposition to a men’s center? Why do you feel having a men’s center, where men are safe from such hostility to masculinity as can be found on the women’s center FAQ, defining masculinity in terms such as homophobic, violent and emotionally stunted? Don’t you think that kind of open and accepted hatred of men, on it’s own, justifies a male safe space?

          • Yep rape. I was raped repeatedly for 5 years long before I became an SFU student. This is true for more than you would ever think. If you think there aren’t male rape victims at sfu, you are misinformed. I also have quite a bit of knowledge on this and the majority of “reported” rape occurs in penitentiaries, not “actual” rape. 90% of us will never report it.

      • Does it matter?

        Women have a Women’s center, to not allow Men to have one is called DISCRIMINATION.

        SFU, being a place of higher learning, should teach all of its students that the correct path is INCLUSION, not EXCLUSION.

        Discrimination is WRONG, whether it’s a woman being discriminated against, or a man.

        We all have our issues, it’s not your place to decide which ones are more “valid” than the other.

      • How about 90% of workplace fatalities being men?

        How about a suicide rate that is twice as high for men?

        How about that women have reproductive rights, but men have only have reproductive obligations?

        How about women receiving custody of kids over 80% or the time and men only 8%?

        How about that men live 4-7 years less than women? Why might that be?

        How about the disparity in sentencing between men and women for the same crimes? An average of 20% less time served by women.

        How about living in a culture that largely presents men as either lazy and unreliable, or as meat shields, money bags and sperm donors to be used and disposed of by others? And then when boys who grow up with these kinds of “role models” behave badly, the “patriarchy” is blamed. (LOL)

        How about living in a culture where men who are hesitant to commit to a relationship are marriage are label shamed as immature and irresponsible and then when those same women later end their (starter) marriages because they are no longer
        feeling “fulfilled,” or “insert rationalization here”, they say it’s because they have “matured”, but their
        own level of “commitment” is not even up for discussion?

        How about living in a culture where the good men do is expected and left unpraised, while the good women do is praised highly, and the bad they do is excused? A culture where men are allowed moral agency while women surrender their agency, thus becoming tyrants over men.

        How about living in a culture where women have pushed their way into all male spaces, demanding “equal access” on principle, and then having done that now demand and enjoy increasing “safe spaces” for women only, since they are “afraid” of men?

        How about living in a culture where when a man speaks up about these
        things, he is shamed and told that his “issues” even if they exist,
        don’t matter.

  13. College aged males don’t know what the fuck they’re doing. A safe space for men in a college environment would be a great way to give them answers to shit 19 year olds don’t know. Most college dudes don’t know how to write a check, how to budget money, how to file taxes, etc. A mens center would be great for htat.

    • And I think that rather than spending $30,000 and specifically not letting in women, these things are better left to just asking someone if you don’t know, or looking it up on the internet if you’re embarrassed that you don’t know. “Problem” solved!

      • I’m not sure if you’re aware of this, but just because it’s name would be the Men’s Centre, doesn’t mean that women would not be allowed/welcome there just as men are not thrown out of the Women’s Centre…

    • So start an accounting/financial help club. Oh, wait. There already is one.

  14. The comments section has become a fascinating study on the way the privileged seek to delegitimize discussion of their privilege.

    • Arent you the dedicated little feminist. Giving your group a well deserved reputation for being bitter manhaters that love to whine about “male privilege” but then ignore, justify or exuse your female privilege. For example:
      http://www.ofmb.org/p/canon-of-legal-discrimination.html
      Look at how many gender specific programs you privileged females have dedicated to you. How is that a “male privilege”.
      Some facts for you to dismiss hun:
      http://www.avoiceformen.com/mission-and-values/about/

      • I like that you group all feminists as bitter manhaters, but when men get grouped together as being more privileged, you get up in arms about it.

        I don’t agree with what GFMD said, but as a woman who is a feminist, I don’t appreciate your need to make a blanket statement about feminists – just as much as I don’t appreciate blanket statements being made about men.

        • You’ll need to take it up with your man-hating sisters that are opposed to a men’s centre.

          • TruthJustice is correct on this point.

            While not ALL feminists are man-haters, it’s the vocal ones that ARE who give your group a really bad reputation. And truthfully, I’ve not met many feminists that aren’t militant man-haters.

            Perhaps it’s time to start weeding out the bad influences and people in feminism, bring it some level of legitimacy, you know?

            So long as your man-hating sisters continue to spew fecal matter from their mouths, no one will take feminism seriously. I certainly don’t.

            No offense.

  15. First, please stop using the term “blacks” in your articles.

    This group hasn’t produced a clear mandate. There are many issues men would benefit from talking about in a safe space. However, this group has not identified what issues and activities will be taken on by this centre. This group has also not identified why men need a specific space designated for them on campus. Women face unique challenges and dangers on university campuses and everywhere else in society, so this is not just a matter of saying, “they have it, why can’t we?”

    Sad to see so little critical thinking being done at a UNIVERSITY.

    • So, men don’t face unique challenges and dangers on a university campus?

      And if not calling them blacks, then what? African Americans? I’m pretty sure as Canadians, they’d find that quite offensive.

      Maybe you should stop trying to find things to be offended about.

      • Have you ever been to SFU? Nobody faces any dangers at all up there, it’s a socially-dead commuter school. The biggest ‘danger’ people face at SFU on a regular basis is having to wait in line for some delicious Renaissance Coffee.

  16. Thank you for writing this. If a group of men created a video saying these things about women it would be lambasted as bigoted, and rightfully so. The people in this video are bigots, plain and simple.

    • Instead, they get national CBC coverage.

  17. *applaudes* oh man that was the best thing i’ve read all week. well done.

  18. If the idea was to show the kind of ugly thinking a men’s centre could very easily perpetuate and was likely behind it’s inception, the comments section did it BEAUTIFULLY.

    • So no arguments, just bile and slander?

      How very typical.

    • Okay, so you have exactly half the picture. (And even then, your facts need work.)

      Now go look at the other side. The ugliness and bigotry that is coming from the feminist supporters of the Women’s center. That’s not ugly thinking too?

      Oh.. I see… you don’t want equality, you want hostility. Noted.

      You sir/madam, are an idiot and I hope you choke on your own spittle.

  19. All of this sexist rhetoric and insults directed at men clearly show that there IS a need for a safe space for men to discuss these issues.

  20. If they can assume that the Men’s Centre will be nothing more than a white, straight old boy’s club, can I assume that the current Women’s Centre is just a white, straight sorority girl’s club?

    • Worse…it appears to be a nest of clueless, self-important radical leftist hippies, much like the one at my school (UVic)

  21. The idea of a “Men’s Center” is frowned upon because people see men (in general) as entitled, which is true in certain aspects of society. What I feel and hope this Men’s Center appeals to is the human/psychological/emotional aspect of being male in our society, which is constantly ignored and shunned as “weak” or “gay”.
    Poor mental health or emotional confidence can lead to destructive behavior, regardless of gender. Denying men/women access to environments in which they can express themselves or talk through a difficult time is crippling and equivalent to denying a person’s rights (regardless of gender) based on their race.
    Should only women of race A be able to use the Women’s Center? Should we punish women of races B through Z for asking to have equal treatment?

  22. Based strictly off the video, I think that while the video does make some good points, it’s interspersed with a lot of bigoted, sexist and just plain in bad taste comments and interviews that seriously detract from the message. If the message is “ensure this space is equally judged compared to competing programs and proposals and has a clear and effective mandate and budget”, then I agree wholeheartedly with that sentiment. However, the examples presented are such that if there is no clear mandate or budget that the centre would simply become some lavish men’s lounge with Xboxes is not only comically overblown stereotyping, and disingenuous,

    • Sorry, seem to have posted prematurely…

      …but clearly shows the underlying ideas of men that these women (and men) have about other men, especially those they seem to categorize as “hegemonic-ally patriarchal.” Which is an ironic affirmation that indeed, a men’s centre would be an asset in countering the stereotype that guys who are perceived, for lack of a better term, as “bros” neither have issues which they would need help with, or are worth the effort to reach out and help.

      • You know what really gets to me? The myth of a patriarchy.

        As if there’s some council of men who gets together twice a week discussing how to hold down women from advancing in society.

        Sounds ridiculous, doesn’t it? Well, it is.

        No such patriarchy exists. There’s no one out there trying to hold women down as a group.

        The problem is individual greed and individual bias. Most feminists I’ve had the displeasure of talking to react verbally violently when even the idea that some of their beliefs are not based in reality comes up.

        This is why I am against feminism and FOR HUMANISM.

        By it’s nature, the concept of feminism is to segregate and that is WRONG. It causes a divide between genders instead of bringing them together.

        How about we all attend “Human Studies” where issues of BOTH genders are covered, with men AND women in the same class?

        This has more benefits than drawbacks.
        Women would become aware of and educated on mens issues in the exact same way that men would become more aware of and educated on womens issues. Isn’t this what we want anyways? Isn’t this the first step to TRUE equality?

        People who subscribe to philosophies like feminism are part of the problem, not the solution.

        P.S.
        To the women out there who are feminist, I’m not trying to insult you or deride you in any way. I believe both genders should be treated equally, I’m just trying to shed light on the glaring imperfections of the belief system (namely: Feminism) that you currently have and how it ends up HARMING equality more than helping it.

  23. Once again, Teitel proves adept at pointing out the irrationality of some activist groups. Thumbs up.

  24. I really think it is only
    fair, I do lots of research in sexuality and have read lots, men do get
    abused, raped and etc, why should they not have a center?

    • Yeah, I agree.

      Just because it happens less frequently, and it doesn’t get reported as often, doesn’t mean it’s a joke, or that it doesn’t happen.

      It was the same way when women weren’t equal citizens. Rapes went unreported because women were afraid of being ridiculed and ostracized for reporting the incidents.

      Now who’s doing the ridiculing and ostracizing? Feminists.

      It’s sickening that even though women have been through some trials in the last 100 years, some of them don’t appear to have learned ANYTHING.

      • 100 years? Check your numbers, please. Women suffered since pretty much the beginning of society/time/take your pick.

  25. It’s just a matter of time before the “new minority” (white males in general) get fed up of saying sorry and hiding out, afraid of being labeled bigots and sexists. If any group has its right to free speech and opinion, it’s them. Recognized minority groups, with their hroups, causes, awareness campaigns and associations are so paranoid of losing their holier-than-thoe status that they attack anything they deem “unworthy” of any attention. The fact is we are getting fed up of being sidelined and blamed for the world’s problems, and I fully support any cause that speaks to me and my feelings a a guy, especially since we are being victimized so much lately. It’s a sad situation to segregate oneself so outwardly, but if it’s for the greater good, a guys club should be 100% allowed, supported and guilt-free. Do we not count anymore? Everyone from women, blacks, homosexuals, and countless other groups are banging on for their rights, men have every right to demand their’s be preserved too in amongst all the shouting. Go for it, all the honest, decent men out there!!!

    • Thanks Kevin for the great post.

  26. Responding to the video a bit, coming from somebody who was paid to report on SFU issues for three years. Yes, I worked for The Peak. No, I don’t anymore.

    1. The only major advocacy group to be created in the last decade at SFU was apportioned a levy immediately. Sustainability SFU does not hurt for cash. SFU students, however, hurt to see the results of that cash.

    2. Tooth and nail fighting for funding came to an end the minute we rid ourselves of that dead weight they call the CFS. The SFSS is now rich as hell. They could double the funding of all of their initiatives today without breaking a sweat. The CFS levy of hundreds of thousands of dollars will continue to be taken from students without going to the CFS. There is no more financial crisis at the SFSS.

    3. There are no spaces at SFU that men can go that women cannot (unless you count restrooms, which I don’t, because I’m not a moron, and neither are you). There is, however, a Women’s Centre. While I probably would not be chucked out of the Centre (because everybody there is pretty boss), it’s title does a pretty good job of dissuading me from ever going in there. So by my tally, there is exactly one place on campus that is in any degree exclusionary based on gender.

    4. The Men’s Centre has not been given a cheque. The 30,000 is an earmark for the future. They can only use $500 for professional consulting and public consulting for right now. Anyone actually asking questions or being aware (or listening to Ana Maria Tremonti talk to Jeff McCann on CBC radio) would know this. The favorite sport of SFU students is talking about things they refuse to learn about. This continues.

    5. The man in the video talking about the financial aspect of the Men’s Centre was defeated in the race for SFSS treasurer, and ran on a platform of not knowing anything about finances. He’s a good guy, but like Donnie, he’s out of his element, and should do likewise.

    6. The rhetoric of gender inclusion breaking away into “a bunch of douchebags sitting around and playing video games” is like a lost Lenny Bruce bit. Incredible. That guy should be ashamed of himself for being so unfunny. Talk about generalizations about gender. Sheesh.

    7. The men’s centre will not be trans inclusive? Says who? Nobody, that’s who. They made it up. Would they be rousted if they came in? Would they be lynched? Of course not. I’d hope they’d be referred to the awesome people at Out On Campus. These people are just attack the zygote of an idea, the fetus of a concept. It has no features. It is a bundle of policy stem cells. Attack the plan when the plan exists, if you must. This is the definition of knee-jerk.

    8. It’s not collaborative with other social justice groups on campus? It doesn’t exist yet! Nothing at SFU can have a mandate without at least 7 years of consultation at this point, so why would they even claim that?

    9. “Women have thoughts!”, she said, shocking nobody. “They have no experience being in a gender studies class”. Yeah, them and everyone but about 20 people in all of SFU, hence their struggle to convince the administration they have a mandate to exist. Gender studies is awesome, but you’re using it as a bludgeon.

    10. “This has created controversy among students at SFU.” Nothing ever does that, ever. There are about 400 people in a campus of 30,000 that do anything, ever. The bubble of involvement at SFU is extremely small. It’s not that the Men’s Centre has no mandate, it’s that nothing does. Not the SFSS, not SFPIRG, not The Peak (where I worked, I remind you). Nothing. We can’t even get quorum at SFSS general meetings. It’s all a joke. There are no clear mandates on Burnaby Mountain.

    11. Right from the get-go, there is no vote. What are we voting “No” to? There is no levy. This was a board allotment. They can act with impunity because they were elected by 8% of eligible voters.

    What an embarrassing little video.

    Basically, all this video shows is the relative level of engagement and knowledge of SFSS policy, procedure, and initiatives at SFU. These are the “informed” of our campus, and they know nothing (Jon Snow). Imagine how little everybody else knows.

    Imagine how little they care. It’s not a lot, I can tell you.

    • Thank you for making a real qualitative contribution to this thread.

    • Excellent comments.

    • Thank you for these well thought-out comments. I don’t attend SFU but, as a male, have felt an almost subliminal amount of social pressure or attack just because I’m a white male. Am I particularly entitled to anything? No, I don’t think so and I think my paycheque would agree. Do I have confidence issues, personal troubles and would be appreciative of a comfortable space where others can Identify with my problems? You bet I would. Would I be a “douchebag playing videogames”? May the games once and a while to relax, but I’d hardly classify myself as a douchebag for being one of the millions and millions of people around the world playing video games at any given moment. With women for generations pushing for gender equality, it galls me that some women want to have their cake and eat it too, and have it contain exactly 0 calories to boot.

    • Excellent response. You are the only person to have invested a bit of thought before putting your mouth (keyboard) in gear. I am constantly appalled /disgusted that there are so many that scream “I need money because I am being discriminated against” only to be the first in line to object to another group using the identical reasoning to request equal funding.

      I am a college/university instructor. In my classes, equality means equality. No one is treated differently – PERIOD.

      It is absurd that some people define “Equality” to mean elevated treatment for specific groups but exclude others.

      Truly the definition of hypocrite.

      Provide the funding – or – eliminate the funding to the women’s group. Equality!

  27. Great article!

  28. CBC’s the Current had a piece on it yesterday. The most “amusing” thing to me was a woman who runs a Women’s Centre at another University (the SFU one didn’t want to be interviewed apparently). She objected to the Men’s centre too. Why? Well, you see, this is a single issue thing and really, we need a more all inclusive one.

    The “amusing” part is that she never ever offered to rename her institution and open it up to men, guess that would have been too inclusive?

    • I listened to that piece. The story wasn’t about the men’s centre, but rather about the opposition to the men’s centre.
      CBC is just a propaganda centre. I’ve made dozens of complaints in the past, they don’t care.

      • Propaganda how? By pointing out the arguments bring forward against it? That’s called journalism. Showing both sides even more so.

  29. Bravo!

  30. Proof that feminism’s goal is seldom equality but rather female chauvinism.
    The efforts of those who seek true gender justice must be redoubled.

    • I’d be VERY careful about generalizing and lumping all feminism together like that. The beliefs of a few do not match the many. There are maybe 12 people in that video. So watch what you say if you wish to be taken seriously. You risk outright hypocrisy in your very statement.

      • I’ve read a few decent feminist academics, like Warren Farrell, Camille Paglia, Murray Straus, Christina Hoff Sommers and Wendy McElroy.

        However, they are widely hated by contemporary gender feminists and a small minority of vocal and influential self identified feminists.

      • It’s not his fault they all use the same word to describe themselves. If mainstream feminists are sick of being lumped in with post-modernist man haters, they should do more to make themselves heard over the background noise of hate coming from the women’s rights movement. “Hey, not all of us are like that, hypocrite!” Is really just a way to end the conversation with subtle ad hominem. Which, pardon me for saying so, is something women tend to do when they’re in a corner about something.

      • Those 12 people are defamatory and downright insulting. They should be derided for their slanted worldview. They are feminists.

        The statement stands.

        I’m sure not ALL feminists think this way, but THESE ones do.

        If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, it’s a duck.

        • Deriding others makes you no better than the hate-throwers who say the very things you disagree with. Try growing up and having a mature opposing reaction if you wish to be treated like an adult. Otherwise you tend to sound like a child. Good luck with that.

          • This comment was deleted.

          • Sorry about all the extra posts, having browser issues here.

          • This comment was deleted.

          • Wow, yep. Classy. Have a nice day!

    • Feminism is dedicated to removing the patriarchy, which is harmful to all people. We do not seek the oppression of any group, but the equality of all groups. Patriarchy harms men as well as women, and none of it is the fault of feminism.

      • What patriarchy? Feminists keep espousing this idea.. but the idea itself is a fallacy.
        There is no patriarchy, just individual greed.

        There is no secret agenda that men have just to keep women down. It doesn’t exist.

  31. Men have different struggles in life, that is why you need a men’s centre. I have no idea what a women’s centre does, just as I have no idea about the struggles women face in life. The women in this video have no idea the issues that men face in their lives.

    The men in this video may not feel they need a men’s centre, maybe because they have a strong family or group of friends. However there are men that don’t have have that level of social support and this is where a men’s centre can help.

  32. I don’t understand why a safe place for men to promote mental wellness should be closely linked to the social justice movement, as it sounds more like a public health service.

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but gender studies does not have much focus on promoting men’s mental/spiritual health, but understanding and formalizing our knowledge about how gender plays a role in society. Many active in gender studies maintain that men still have a privileged place in society. I don’t think men who come to a Men’s Center to deal with their mental/physical/drug-related issues will feel this way, though.

    Men face their own unique challenges, and are often raised to suppress signs of weakness, particularly in front of girls. A men-only space may provide men with an environment that they will be comfortable to deal with their problems.

    • “often raised to suppress signs of weakness, ”
      Definitely this, the primary reason and need for a safe space.

    • Remember current logic is that if its good for women it must be good for men and that if we need more we should utilize the patriarchy or man up.

  33. Men don’t need a men’s center, they already have one, it’s called “everywhere on earth, except the women’s center.”

    • Men are the greatest victims of all violent crime.

    • If you were trying to be funny, you failed. Not only did you fail, you EPIC failed.

      Now go stand in the corner with your head hung low.

      You should be ashamed of yourself.

  34. This is not reverse sexism. There is no reverse sexism. It is just sexism.

    • Totally agreed.

      Women have fought for years to get rid of the sexism they have suffered over the years.. it’s truly disappointing to see the same sexism that was being fought against by women, used as a bludgeon by women to demean men.

      Pot, meet kettle.

  35. I am sincerely interested in what kind of issues these men want help with at the men’s centre. Men face gender based issues certainly but do they warrant a centre? As a Gender Studies major I am interested in the this. :)

    • Gender Studies? I think you meant “Women’s Studies Version 2.0″ Being a gender studies major and having to ask that question shows as much. If you’re that interested, the issues are easily found and widely discussed on websites, the only “safe space” wherein they can be discussed.
      -Suicide (men account for about 80% of all suicides).
      -Guys lead in alcohol/drug addiction.
      -Boys fare far worse than girls in single parent homes.
      -Divorce and custody laws.
      -DV/Intimate Partner Violence & how to deal with it, since society seems to view it as only something women are subjected to.
      -Rapidly shifting gender roles and expectations..i.e. “what is masculinity”, and what is expected of men..aside from rape, assault, murderdeathkill, child molestation, self-destruction, & ruling the patriarchyverse from a golden throne of privilege.
      -Success objectification and defining success.

      Just to start..

    • Read Warren Farrells Myth of Male Power

      “women’s weakness is their strength, men’s strength is their weakness”

  36. I’ll note that much of the discussion around the men’s centre isn’t necessarily surrounding the validity of the proposed centre itself, but around the way in which the proposal was brought forward and in turn, funded. As every single project/event being brought to the SFSS requires a detailed and explanatory proposal, the SFU men’s centre proposal was a meagre one-pager that solicited a $30,000 budget.

    The other issue is that because the proposed centre is a project of the board members, and few students — other than the board members themselves — have come forward requesting the creation of a men’s centre. This demonstrates a weak attempt at consultation on what may have been needed to address health issues facing men. Looking back over the history of the SFSS, boards that were looking to implement any larger initiatives such as the men’s centre would consult with SFU Forum, a group of all student unions which would provide input from every corner of the university. This has also raised concerns surrounding the SFSS governing structure, with possible reforms on the horizon.

    Lastly, there have been concerns with the process that has been employed by the board to establish the men’s centre. The $30,000 could have been allocated to existing non-profits/university initiatives that have established knowledge in men’s health issues. This shows that some conflict of interest for reasons of public spotlight may exist, and that the board members involved should be disciplined for their abuse of power in granting the funding for this project.

    I personally am for the men’s centre. I was bullied in elementary school, and as a result deal with the repercussions every day. I wish this was brought to forum, as I am a member and would have a ton to share on the matter. I also know that fellow forum members would be able to provide phenomenal advice in the matter, so that we could all ensure that $30,000 was spent ethically instead of creating further animosity on campus.

    • Get involved and start a discussion about your experiences as a boy and a man. The discussion is really the important part, nothing should be off the table and men should be safe from gender policing and shaming for their feelings and experiences.

  37. Anyone doubt that men’s issues exist maybe should speak with someone who has sons going through our public school system from. I have two boys in JK and grade 2 and I can tell you that what’s infused the mode of thinking in this slice of our fair society is hostile towards maleness.

    I wish this article had explored more why there’s a tendency to assert women’s rights as somehow contra the rights of men. Probably not the right article for that discussion.

    • Truthfully? Mens rights and Womens rights are NOT mutually exclusive.

      They can and WILL co-exist. It’s not one or the other, it should be BOTH.

      • Agreed.

  38. I think these she-bigots will eventually regret making this video. The internet is so permanent that any of us who say something rashly, or react without thinking clearly will all eventually have something to shame us.
    I think it’s fantastic to have a women’s space on campus. I also think it’s great to have a men’s space on campus. As long as either is not engaging in horrible victimizing behavior or encouraging incredibly ignorant and self serving hate-speech (ladies, be careful when you label someone a douche-bag just for enjoying playing video games with friends. A real douchebag is someone who treats you like a worthless, stupid penis-holster BEFORE you start calling him names)

  39. How is this reverse sexism? Isn’t it just sexism?

    • Yup.

      No such thing as reverse sexism. Sexism is just sexism.

  40. The only thing I was ever concerned about with the proposed Men’s Center was that I was told they would be taking half of the Women’s Center away to do it. I personally wouldn’t feel safe taking a nap in the Women’s Center if half of it was for men (because there’s like 30 couches in there, so that’s the only reason I ever go there. Also, microwave).

    If they don’t take away from the Women’s Center, and there’s still a safe place for women, who gives a crap? Sexism is sexism, whether it’s at men or at women. These “enlightened” women should consider what they’d sound like if they were men discussing women.

    I think everyone should have somewhere safe to go on campus, and I’d be proud to have a Men’s Center. I just keep hoping for a day when no one will need a safe area, because all of the areas will be safe for everyone.

    • Your goal is noble, but you are a bit bigoted yourself.

      “The only thing I was ever concerned about with the proposed Men’s Center
      was that I was told they would be taking half of the Women’s Center
      away to do it.”

      Then you go on to say:

      “I personally wouldn’t feel safe taking a nap in the Women’s Center if
      half of it was for men (because there’s like 30 couches in there, so
      that’s the only reason I ever go there. Also, microwave).”

      Why wouldn’t you feel safe? Might be attacked by a male? Really? That’s sexist, by the way.
      You sound like a typical feminist bigot.

      Even if half the center WAS taken by men, so what? That doesn’t mean you are any less safe than you are now. You may even be MORE safe.

      See? This is the problem, exactly. The underlying suspicion of any male.

      Yes, you MIGHT be attacked/raped/robbed…. but you might be run over by a bus on your way home from school too. You might get struck by lightning, who knows?

      If you are THAT afraid, don’t leave your house. You’ll be perfectly safe from everyone else.. and everyone will be perfectly safe from you.

      I am not a criminal, and for someone to even be suspicious of me solely because of my gender is not only sexist, it’s discriminatory and just downright stupid.

      Let go of the gender stereotyping and we can all get along better.

    • You can’t take a nap on a sofa because men are nearby? Perhaps you need some stronger meds.

  41. I think the men’s centre could be beneficial. However, it’s important to note that women cannot be sexist toward men. Sexism is based on a system of oppression. Women CAN be discriminatory, rude, inconsiderate, and/or prejudiced against men but they CANNOT be sexist toward them.

  42. A men’s center could provide education and guidance to warn men about the anti-male gender bias in our society and most particularly in the focus on women’s rights by our police, justice and government departments.
    The Ontario Ministry of the Attorney General regards women as an “identified disadvantaged group” and provides funding to women’s groups to publish anti-male propaganda.
    Police have been given relentless instructions in how to deal with “Violence Against Women” This has resulted in extreme anti-male bias in policing. In cases of alledged domestic violence the police act more like vigilantes than police. A man will be arrested and charged and jailed on no more than a woman’s accusation. Often the accused man will be beaten by police for “resisting arrest”. This is arbitrary arrest and imprisonment.
    The Crown Attorney also has a special policy for prosecuting men accused of “Violence Against Women”. They are instructed to seek conviction rather than the truth or justice. Malicious prosecution.
    Judges have also been schooled in the “Violence Against Women” propaganda with it’s made up statistics and hateful gender profiling of men.

    • It makes me sad that so many decent comments are getting voted down while this comment goes up.

      The aforementioned disadvantages exist and deserve redress. Wages are imbalanced and social perceptions are lopsided. Partly because of proactive identifications of this nature, this has lessened over time. I wouldn’t be surprised if the gender imbalance disappears in another 50 or 100 years of proper social treatment, but for the moment they exist and are real, and women deserve protection and amplification of role in redress.

      I think the men’s centre is a great idea. I’m saddened by the knee-jerk response by women that this article highlights, and I think the article and its top commenter make a variety of good points as to why this centre is a great idea.

      • It’s completely understandable that organized feminist bigots are concerned about being exposed. It’s time to evolve and stop lying.

        • Totally agree with you there.

          Women already have more consideration (at least in terms of the law) than men do.

          We men want equality now. Women have it (with the support of many men, like myself), they shouldn’t have a problem with men being equal too, right?

          Oh, I forgot.. we’re dealing with feminists here. They are “hippo”crites.

          • lol…how can you say you’re in support of women when you blanket all feminists as hypocrites and insult their physique at the same time? How incredibly mature and classy of you, sir. Really.

          • Not all women are feminists and not all feminists are women.
            There is no corollary between women and feminism.

      • You should check your facts. The wage imbalance is almost gone, it is a FACT that more women now graduate with degrees than men (a consequence of funding one group but not the other), and there are far more men now staying home to take care of children while their wives work. Your argument was valid 20-30 years ago, but it is not anymore. If anything, we are on a slippery slope to go the other direction.
        While I am glad you support the premise of a Men’s center, you are missing the boat about domestic violence issues. Abuse is abuse regardless of your genitalia. Domestic violence affects both men and women. There are probably more women that report abuse than men would, but then men are supposed to be “Stong” and would be embarassed to say that thier wife or girlfriend beat them until they were bloody.
        I am not marginalizing sexism, but I think far too many people think it only goes one way.

  43. Well said….I wonder if the irony is completely lost on these “educated” folk. I hope not…there’s so much of it it’s dripping out of my monitor all over my PS3 and douchebag friends

  44. Same old message, if you’re a guy you just “suck it up” and deal with whatever is in your face by yourself or through other means available, not counseling and such, just drinking and such. Touch to be normal these days.

  45. There is no such thing as “reverse sexism.” Sexism is sexism, weather the bias is against males or females. This particular brand is tolerated and even encouraged in some circles, hence the use of the non-term “reverse sexism.”

    • The term “reverse” sexism was created to marginalize the importance of sexism against men.

      But you are correct, sexism is sexism, no matter who or what gender the victim is.

  46. The men in this video are of the alternative life style and are accepted in the culture of the suppressed women’s issues and struggles. Therefore, they as the weaker of either gender tend to fall on the their feminine tendencies.

    • Classy.

  47. I would like to suggest an excellent reason for a men’s centre on EVERY Canadian campus – to ask the Universities and public educators why only 40% of University students are male? Is there any reason for this other than anti-male sexism in education?

  48. How do you define “reverse sexism”? Isn’t it just sexism?

  49. It is probably important to point out that Jeff McCann was part of a group who closed down the Women’s Centre last year by locking out the staff and declaring that they were overpaid and that money was needed for ‘student’ spaces. Suddenly there is $30,000 for a men’s centre? Something stinks here…

  50. Don’t they have equal opportunity laws in Canada like Title 9? In the US allowing a group like this would be required because of regulations put in place guaranteeing equal access to both men and women.

    • title 9 only involves sports so title 9 doesnt come into play.

  51. As a Student at Mich State, I recall being struck by the fact there was a womens center with all these long beautiful leather couches to nap on, university supplied snacks to munch on,
    and huge tvs to watch lifetime on. The men who had no such center were left to make do with short hard wooden benches, the junk food in the quad and the tv at the bar. I fail to see how giving men equivalent services for their tution is somehow horrible.
    Men or Womens center aside every student deserves the same experience the current situation does not provide that

  52. Dude, there’s no such thing as reverse sexism. Sexism is sexism. Now, if you had said reverse male chauvinism, I think your title would have made a little more sense.

    • My point exactly!

  53. Women are doing now what they have always done. They are priveleged and pampered in our society. They make demands and give orders and men comply.
    Women object to laws and policies that offer gender equality
    They are insatiable.

  54. If women and their backers allow men to have a men’s center I would like to suggest they call it Douchebaq Hall or maybe Thank You Maam House. Something that acknowledges the gratitude of the big strong hegemonic patriarchs for allowing them to have just a tiny taste of the special percs that women demand and receive without question.

  55. It’s even tough to find a male safe space as a grown man. Why is the idea that men need a place to share their feelings and deal with their issues so frightening?

    • Well, there’s always Alcholics Anonymous Men’s Night. There’s your options, guys.

      • Well played. Very well played.

  56. Instead of having a women’s centre or a men’s centre, why don’t they just create a Social Centre where men, women, whites/blacks/asians/others can create clubs or workshops to discuss and help solve gender, ethnic, and personal problems. No need to segregate ourselves in different centres.

    • Because girls won’t allow it.

  57. I am not surprised one bit by the hysterical reaction of the feminists. They have gotten away with a great deal for a very long time, having secured a significant influence by aggressively milking the teat of the victim role, casting all men as villains, and garnering money and resources from all and sundry as a way to assuage the “hurt feelings” of those on the receiving end of their carefully manufactured guilt trip.
    There are three things I want to add here. First, no matter how much men have knuckled under – and are willing to knuckle under – to this constructed, ideological form of domination, feminists cannot back down. That’s because they need to hold onto the increasingly mythical idea of the violent, sexist, hegemonically patriarchal male lurking within the breast of every man they see. Their whole system rests upon this logical foundation. Without this premise, they have nothing. Thus, regardless of the fact that fewer and fewer such men exist in our society, feminists hold onto this increasingly fabricated image and loudly trumpet it wherever and whenever they can. They need it, like fundamentalists need the devil or islamists need infidels. Without it, both their identities and all of the power and resources that they have built up over the past few decades will begin to appear illegitimate – their increasingly fraudulent actions will be seen for what they are – and the whole house of cards will come crashing down. Hence, ever greater hysteria whenever a challenge like this appears to expose the frauds that they have become.
    Secondly, none of this should be surprising to anyone familiar with the work of sociologist Robert Michels (BTW, he wrote before sociology went “to the dogs” as it were). Michels argued, in his “iron law of oligarchy” that all forms of organization, regardless of how democratic they may be at the start, will eventually and inevitably develop oligarchic tendencies, thus making true democracy practically and theoretically impossible. Feminists, though starting out as part of a relatively powerless group that organized a movement seeking justice, equality, redress for past wrongs, and a generally democratic society that enabled women to participate fully, have over time garnered a great deal of influence socially, politically, legally, and financially. They have created numerous organizations at the national and local level, have influenced virtually every institution in our society from the courts through health care, education, government, etc. Most importantly, they have made a lot of money, and there are many people making a living in the bloated bureaucracies they have created. In the process, they have become the powerful, oligarchic group, and nobody today dares criticize them except to his peril. They are now the top dogs. Ironically, Michels’ thoughts have been borne out: they have in effect become what, back in the 1960′s, people used to call “the Man.”
    Thirdly, and this takes a bit of a broader view on things, what I have just described in relation to feminism is going on in a number of areas in today’s society. Postmodern relativism, the continuing breakdown of traditional culture, social capital, social roles, and morality, and the rise of consumerist nihlism has left a void of meaning in the West. Today, when social challenges arise from within or without, or problems are exacerbated as a result of economic decline, people turn less to traditional values, institutions, and support structures than to the special “group rights” fostered by the Charter, human rights legislation, and the associated victim ideologies taught in our universities and mainstream media today. In many respects, ideology is filling the void, indeed society is becoming more and more ideological. We are witnessing the growth of a new “herd mentality,” a new tribalism where one can become part of a privileged elite within this order so long as: (1) you fit one of the categories (i.e. you are not a “sexist, hegemonic straight white male”); and (2) you remain loyal to the new orthodox, religious ideology. Not only do the oligarchy running this system need “heretics,” “infidels,” or “thought criminals” to justify themselves as much as the Medieval church, islamists, or the Soviet politburo, they are just as willing to demonize and punish dissidents. Society is becoming increasingly uncomfortable for those who disagree, who seek to exercise their “right” to free speech (e.g. Aayan Hirsi Ali, Mark Steyn, Geert Wilders, and many others). “Lawfare” seems to be the new way to silence critics, whose resources feed the system the way that “heretics’” assets fueled the Inquisition. I fear that pretty soon this new ruling class is going to go all cultural revolution on us dissidents to protect the powers and privileges they have so cleverly gained.
    Oh wait, by the reactions to the Men’s Center at SFU, I think it’s already started…

  58. And what if Group B does actually have more problems, since they do not have an outlet, and no one will listen to them?

    Instead they receive exhortations to “man-up” from those (feminists) who oppose them, which is based on the premise that women get to define what masculinity means…while also getting to define what femininity means. They are in control of the cultural narrative, but this kind of self-embarrassing reaction only reveals that they are deathly afraid of losing it.

    Wait until the men’s pamphlets of facts and stats become common on North American campuses. 10 years from now, this monopoly on “issues” will be over for feminists, and then the graduation rates will begin to even out…assuming that student loans haven’t diminished the value of a degree to zero by then.

  59. I can understand the points of view of many comments here. What is missing is why I wrote the quote about facing up to the reality of men’s issues, and why I believe it will change civilization. If you look back in history men were the protectors and providers for the tribe, or the town, or the nation. We think they did this and continue to do this because they wanted to. Actually they had no choice, as it came down to the struggle for survival and the influence of powerful leaders with often selfish motives. Life is hard and we today are so lucky to be alive at this time in history. For thousands of years men had no choice but to work for a King and to die in his armies. It was instant death to say no. We have forgotten the incredible sacrifices made for us by these men so we could live in a democratic country. (women sacrificed too, but we are talking about men here) Aside for the sacrifice in blood, men also worked themselves very hard even to the death to provide for a family in dangerous industrial jobs with little or no safety provisions. It was the men who demanded the reforms by fully knowing that if they went on strike they might again pay with their lives. We owe a lot to our fathers and grandfather who created this wealth so we could make a choice. Anyway, the point is we now live in a very wealthy country where increasing numbers of people who previously were excluded from the marketplace are now gaining entry. This list includes women, gays, people with disabilities, ex criminals, the formerly mentally ill and so on. The point of this is that the male job of wage slavery (a men’s issue) is slowly coming to an end. So for the first time in world history men today have the real opportunity to choose freely how they want to live. They can choose a career in the arts or music instead of one in medicine or law. Often society and family pressured young men into careers they did not want. Plus, because women are now entering the workforce in huge numbers and are more able to accept men choosing to stay home or take a more creative job, men are happier. There really is no enemy. That is the whole point. Civilization is changed by the fact that wealth generation is becoming more spread out across the human society and more and more, everyone can contribute to the growing maturity of our species.

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