Canadian troops to stick around in Afghanistan until 2014?

Harper government considering an extended stay


 

The Conservative government is considering lengthening the Canadian Forces’ stay in Afghanistan until 2014, rather than the proposed exit date of July 2011. This would keep some 600 Canadians in Kabul to train Afghan troops. Prime Minister Harper is expected to decide as soon as next week about the three year extension. Harper is currently facing pressure from NATO allies to help address a shortfall in the NATO-led mission in Afghanistan. Defence Minister Peter MacKay confirmed that Canada has been asked to conduct non-combat training missions but he wouldn’t divulge any details.

Toronto Star


 
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Canadian troops to stick around in Afghanistan until 2014?

  1. Stop putting dates on these things! Geeze, do these morons not learn?

    We should stay there either "until the task is successfully completed" or "no longer, and will be withdrawing immediately."

  2. Keeping our trops there may not necessary help.
    If we tie their hands with stupid apologetic politically correct constraints, they will not be able fo fight efficiently.
    There should be masive unlimited action like in Korean war, just napalm those primitives slum and rest of the
    islamic third-world will have again respect to western world.

    • To replace the Taliban; invoke your inner Taliban.

    • rest of the islamic third-world will have again respect to western world

      But would we respect ourselves?

      • The problem with western world is that we do not have anymnore respects for pourself.
        We are not willing anymore to stand for our own values, we do not defense our liberties that helped us tu build our civilisation. Third-world slum figured this out already and it takes advantage of our weakness.

        You guys can "feel sick to my stomach" but do you even realize that islamists will not hesitate to sloughter
        you, your frinds and family? They will do this because they hate us for what we are, not for what we say or what we do.
        They did not hesitated to kill woman and children in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia and many more places, so what makes you thinking that thay will treat us differently ?
        Look at fascism in 1930', there was no clear strong responce to growing fascism and we ended up with WWII,
        Seems that western world did not learn anything since that time and now we can not (do not want to?) stand up against growing islamo-fascism.

  3. If Ignatieff could just find the balls to a) oppose this and b) make this a matter of confidence in the House, then he'd be Prime Minister by January.

    I hate the NDP socialists but man Ignatieff is this close to losing my vote to them.

    I'm sick of this war, now. Get our guys and girls out of there, now. RTFNOW

    • How could he opposed, dig around and you will see, along with Rae, that this is what should be done.

    • Why are you sick of it? How does it effect you personally? Im tired of everyone sick of this war and to bring the troops home. Do you speak for the troops? Because the general feeling in the Canadian Forces is that everyone wants to stay and WIN this conflict!

      • You speak for the troops do ya? Peter spoke for himself.

        Win this conflict…define your win condition. Taliban was toppled, but they will come back. Any Afghani man at any moment can become a member of the Taliban. I wish this mission creep could have been clearly delineated back when Canada was going into the conflict.

        We're now training their army and protecting their schools? That's welfare for them, pal. Let's have a little of that passion for welfare on the home front.

        • Repeated polls have shown an overwealming support for the mission within the Canadian Forces, I myself am in the Canadian Forces as well. Peter said "Get our guys and girls out of there', many people hide behind bringing the poor troops home. I got news for you, the majority of the troops dont want to pull out! Critics of the war are free to oppose it for their own personal reasons but they need to stop hiding behind their "bring the troops home" crap.
          Sadley early in the conflict NATO and the US failed to implement any kind of relevent counter-insurgent strategy which they are making up for double time now. Lets not forget that the taliban was defeated and had virtualy no presence between 2002 and 2004, they let it slip away. People that say this is unwinable have no back ground in strategy and warfare, this is a very winable war.

          • Can you link me to one of these polls?

            Since you're in the military, maybe you can actually define a win in Afghanistan. President Karzai firmly entrenched with his fellow warlords and opium producers? I don't blame military members for pushing reality to the corners of their minds. Must be hard to go on patrol year after year to protect people who are kissing your a$$ one minute and blowing up schools the next.

            Try to last 20 years so you can collect your pension.

          • " I don't blame military members for pushing reality to the corners of their minds" So what is your grand qualifications in matters of security and defense? Are you an expert in insurgencies and counter insurgency warfare?
            The most basic picture of victory should be the eradication of Al Qaeda, the reason for which the United States and NATO came to Afghanistan in the first place, and the establishment of a stable democratic state for the Afghan people. The first objective has been completeted, Afghanistan has been eliminated as a safe haven for Al Qaeda. The second objective is ongoing because of the failure to put into place a counter-insurgency in the first place. Though I might add that democracy is secondary after stabilizing the country(as with the very succesful British Malaya campaign). Basically the key to any counter-insurgency strategy is securing the population, which is not difficult providing the proper number of troops is provided. I would post the entire 50 page paper I wrote on this subject but that is a little to long for a blog comment.

          • "Try to last 20 years so you can collect your pension" very classy statement. I signed up knowing full well the sacrifice I may have to make, as ALL members of the Canadian Forces have. Freedom isnt free, someone has to pay for it

          • So your win condition is unlikely to be achieved. That is why you ignore the reality that your best pal today (Karzai types) is hitting you with an axe when your back is turned tomorrow.

            As for my pension comment, what's wrong with wishing Canadian forces don't die? I hope you get to retire to one of the sweetest pensions this side of the House of Commons. Don't act like a martyr. You could have worked in the private sector, but you made your choice. I understand your need to think you are fighting for the freedom of Canada.

            I just hope the non-mouth-breathers in the armed forces come home safe.

          • Once again I ask what is your background in security and strategy since you seem to know what achievable and what isnt? I know its a common misperception that these victory conditions cannot be met but in fact Afghanistan is a text book case for a proper counter-insurgency strategy. The problem is NATO and the US neglected to implement one following their ousting of the Taliban and allowed the movement to be reborn in the tribal areas of Pakistan. Now after letting the insurgency grow without taking the proper steps to supress it, the counter-insurgency effort is more difficult but very achievable. Look at the British Malaya campaign, almost identical, it took 12 years before the insurgency was crushed and elections were held. Securing the population is everything, once that is achieved then the corruption and drug problems go away fairly easily.
            And you know your " Try to last 20 years" comment was very conceded and offensive to all service members in the CF.

          • I can see you are very opposed to the war, I was just wondering how has the war in afghanistan effected your life? And for the record I personaly think that Afghanistan has been destructive to all western militarys because it is resulting in reorganizing militaries to fight the so-called war of the future(counter-insurgencies) but since we are in the fight we have to win it.

          • You're not in the military — or at the very least you are low-level and not deployed. I think you meant conceited when you wrote conceded — either way, it made no sense.

            The war in Afghanistan has only affected my life in one way: waiting for friends to come home safe. One did and one is dead.

            Beyond that, this debate is pointless. Go and do your thing.

          • I'm a pilot(officer), I would post my service number, name, and rank for you but I dont exactly trust making that information public as these boards tend to be very anti-military. Yes my mistake, grammer is not my strong point when im not editing.

            I am sorry for your loss. And your feelings against the afghan mission are totaly valid.

            My point is that the majority of people against the mission use the troops as an excuse or say the fight is unwinnable. Neither is a valid arguement for the public to make as they do not represent the men and women in the CF and do not have the knowledge on the strategic and operation aspecets of the conflict. That being said public opposition can be based on apsects such as the financial cost to Canada(as after all Canadians are taxpayers) or even on moral grounds.

          • I apologize for my snark, but there are a lot of fan boys who pretend to be in the military to give their arguments weight. Neither of my friends could get involved in social media either, so I understand why you can't post those things.

            I was never a big fan of the mission because I thought the US was looking for someone to attack no matter what. Supposedly, none of the 9/11 guys were from Afghanistan. Saudi Arabia might have been a more appropriate target. The Fox commentators mocking the Canadian military made me angry too.

            Anyways, you made a valid point earlier, this can't be effectively discussed in a forum post. I didn't lose nearly as much as the wife and kids who lost their man. My friend who lived through his first deployment goes back next spring and I'll be sick waiting again. He has two boys and a wife and they will all be in my prayers.

          • What is "winning" in Afghanistan? If you know the answer to this question you should lead the armed forces.

          • I got some news for you. Some of the people that are against it are troops and Im one of them along with some of my freinds. Ask yourself how is it helping Canada?? Well How? It's not. We signed up to protect Canada not some other hopeless country. There's no justification for it.

        • I am a combat veteran of Afghanistan, who lost several friends over there and still most of the guys I was deployed with including myself, are willing to go back. We understand that by being in Afghanistan we are protecting Canada by preventing it's use as a terrorist training ground.

          As for the previous comment about welfare, from what I've seen the people recieving 'welfare' in Afghanistan work far harder than the people recieving it here. In my mind that means they deserve it more.

          • The sentiment is admirable and true but the reality is that Afghanistan is not a real country and the people there don't recognize the borders that the Brits arbitrarily created before running away from endless and fruitless conflict. There is no victory there. The people there do not want to be like us in Canada and they never will be. We can stay until 2025 and it won't matter. When is a mistake a mistake?

          • Your dedication to a dangerous job aside, the government's plan to commit resources such as yourself to a 10 year struggle may have been misguided.

      • Majority of the taxpayers have a say and not just you.

    • Oh noooo!!! Iggys a Prime Minister? That would make us a Canadanistan.
      Iggys was hired (like a hooker) to do the job for Liberals.
      Unfortunatelly for Liberals (fortunatelly for non-Liberals) he is a pathetic, gut-less clown who do not have qualifications fo
      be a political leader and every his decision makes more enemies. Aren't liberals who sent troops first time fo Afghanistan?

    • Don't you remember how gung ho Professor Ig was for war? He wrote lengthy editorials in major US newspapers when Bush was his man and claim how the imperialism of the US Empire was necessary. He was pumped up at the prospect of US soldiers shocking and awing us all by blowing up an ancient city and civilization. I lost all respect for the man. He and Blair and Bush all have blood on their hands and no WMDs to be found. At least Chretien had the sense to say no to the Empire when it came asking for help again. Dr. Ig has a lot to answer for when it comes to his views on US imperialism and the appropriate use of military force.

    • Ignatieff got Canada kicked out of the UN for his smart BS remark it was on the news like over a month ago. At least Harper brought down the gst and purchased new jets for 2014. Why so long you ask cause there building them in the states. Harper keeps his promises unlike others in the past.

  4. I'd like to get some figures on how many troops the other NATO countries are committing to address this apparent shortfall. My memory on this is a bit hazy, but I seem to recall that a handful of members of the alliance have already withdrawn some years ago without any problem.

    • Canada has done its share and more.

  5. Agree and Seconded…all in favor say '' Aye .''

    • Me thinks you would be better off posting this under the ''Health '' heading at the top of this page..Just a thought……

  6. Harper solemnly promised-no I don't mean "said" I mean solemnly promised-that ALL Canadian soldiers would be out by july 2011. It was just "promised" to keep us quiet until later. Later is now. The number of deaths of children in Afghanistan is mind blowing-we are part of the invasion that has caused these childrens deaths. Read Wikileaks documents-all are on the web. The Afghanistan invasion is a war crime-we are committing it now.

    • Yes how dare the west remove the Taliban from power and hunt down Al Qaeda…. like seriously how can you justify allowing them to stay in power? And Wikileaks is an evil organization, the founder JOKED about his work killing NATO service members as well as Afghan civilians, is that the kind of thing you support?

  7. yes because Wikileaks is oh so reliable

    • When compared to what we're getting from the gov't? Probably.

  8. This is misleading TROOP WILL STTAY! a few men and women will stay in a non combative role, to help out.I was sure the left, especially the NDP and women's rights, would want that.I guess not. Isn't this what Iggy said, and Bob rae??

    • interesting, agency is an important part of women's rights, but I've never heard of women's rights being called an agent themselves. If women want rights, what do women's rights want? (besides troops in Afghanistan in a non-combat role, apparently)

  9. Afghanistan cannot be allowed to become a base for international terrorist operations again, that's the primary concern, the secondary concern is the people of Afghanistan, allowing the Taliban and al Qaeda to summarily execute opponents, enslave women and abuse children should be opposed by everyone, the extent to which we put ourselves out to protect basic human dignity is up for debate, even though we must try.
    Moral relativists in the West are happy to allow religious fundamentalists do whatever they like to the people they control, but that ignores any principles of human rights and human dignity, so their opinions are stained with fascist principles too – which is not how any of us honestly want to live.

    • That wasn't the mission we were sold. Emergency rooms and schools close here at home while we open them there? You right-wingers sure are generous.

      • Care to explain what mission you were sold on and what schools and emergency rooms were closed? Do you actually know anything?
        Defending ourselves isn't generosity, helping others to defend themselves is generous, but still worth it to our security in the long run.

  10. No matter how noble or good our intentions are, over staying our welcome will always be taken as an occupation and invasion, no matter how the current setting government of any country welcome that help. These have been true at any country where it had been tried; China, India, Philippines, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, and many others. The yearning of a populace for self determination, no matter how wrong headed or not, trumps up any noble reasons. This is a lesson we should have learned by now. The reason for being there in the beginning is defensible, extending our stay there is not . I am afraid that we will be dragged by the US to its proven tragic and wrong war policies in the past.

  11. Why is this news? I remember months ago that the Government was openly considering having a small number of troops stay on past 2011 in a non-combat role (which this Toronto Sun excerpt is not particularly clear about).

    • *Edit* Toronto Star – mea culpa.

  12. We were wrong to go in there. We continue to be wrong every second we are in there. There is not excuse for not bringing the troops home immediately. I will never support any party that wants to keep them there.

    • If 9/11 happened in Canada you'd have a different feeling.

      • No I would not.

  13. Our trops should have more freedom in taking decision how do they want to fight.
    They are handcuffed by stuipid rules imposed by apologetic libtards.
    If this is a war then fight like you at at war, fight to win the war, not to make happy a bunch of fruit cakes from NDP or Liberals.

  14. Not yet time for the other NATO allies to step in??? Steve stands tall in the Empire and Washington loves us so much more.

  15. Does everyone remember Hilliary Clinton's facial expression when she visited and Harper told her to go pound salt? I thought at the time that her rather pinched look denoted future conversations to come. I wonder about the lever our friends down south used on Harper to change his mind since that fateful meeting with the State Department. Read confessions of an economic hitman and perhaps the mechanisms of changing our political members minds are all too clear in history. Poor bas'ds.

  16. they have been thier sence 2001 and nothings changes so why should they stay

  17. I don't think our troops should stick around. I feel that the government should take the money that is being spent on afgan right now and put it toward better equipment such as tanks, guns, ships, subs, jets, artillary, ect and maybe a nuclear bomb just in case Korea gets careless. At least that will help beef up our military rather than throw money to the wind. I blame the Liberals for slacking on funds in the military department including buying used crap. If the troops come back it would give Canada a chance to purchase in areas that we are weak in to be best prepared for a war. Canada needs to quit worrying about other countrys and start worrying about Canada. Look at where the americans are at " broke" enough said. What are the rest of the other countrys doing to help in the effort "Nothing"