Coyne v. Wells on the looming election

Why the Liberals are worried and how Layton became the man to watch (VIDEO)

Claire Ward 143

Shot and edited by Tom Henheffer
Produced by Claire Ward

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Coyne v. Wells on the looming election

  1. Wow.. Coyne vs Wells is now so big it's got its own sponsor!

  2. Wow.. Coyne vs Wells is now so big it's got its own sponsor!

  3. "are you just pulling this out of your butt" – great line, but I think Leanne said that last week in Citizen. Re Bruce Carson.

  4. "are you just pulling this out of your butt" – great line, but I think Leanne said that last week in Citizen. Re Bruce Carson.

  5. no no no no coaltion.

  6. no no no no coaltion.

  7. maybe not run out of town by his own party, but given bad advice by his party, and hence, run out of town.

  8. maybe not run out of town by his own party, but given bad advice by his party, and hence, run out of town.

  9. those Liberals who are concerned about this election, need to retire!

  10. those Liberals who are concerned about this election, need to retire!

    • Uh.. you do know that you can have more than one line per message, right?

      • But

      • Thwim

      • that

      • would

      • be

      • much

      • less

      • This comment was deleted.

        • I see what you're doing there, with those multiple posts…you're just giving us more opportunity to help you salvage your reputation/score….well I did what I could. You're welcome. ;-)

          • Thanks, that was the secondary reason (closely behind the obvious joke). I made some comments last week in support of the Harper regime and I nosedived from +60 to -40 before I could say "super formidable political operator"!

            That degree of change is like travelling from Saskatoon to Fort Myers in the middle of February!

          • This comment was deleted.

          • Yes well, I suppose if we wanted to take the analogy that literally, I would also have to change it to El Azizia, Libya to Saskatoon, and also make sure that everyone knows that we're talking about Celsius….
            http://www.enotes.com/science-fact-finder/weather

        • Actually thats a good technique . . . you can claim 9 thumbs up with that stream

    • Conservatives are way too confused to be able to govern. Obama is a Reagan Democrat, Hilary Clinton is a Goldwater Republican, Reagan was Nixon's puppet, Bush was Cheney's gopher and now, Donald Trump wants to fire them all.

      The ONLY thing that these has-beens and wanabes have in common is this:

      http://ahabit.com/axiom.htm

      There's no business like show bu$ine$$ !

      Politics is the biggest Cabaret show on the planet. The Conservatives poured money into Obama's campaign because they hated and feared the candidacy of Hilary Clinton, and when Obama won, they were so shocked they tried to Tea Party him out of town, but America's Gadaffi survived. Perhaps, they have settled down because they have finally realized that Obama is the real thing -a Reagan Democrat.

      Pompous Canadians, who make fun of the politics south of the border, ought to realize that we are just like them. Harper is a spendthrift Liberal and Ignatieff is a fiscal Conservative. What on earth do you expect when the head of Canada's huge deficit is a lawyer like Jim Flaherty?

  11. Running on nothing worked last time, right?

    Were there any non-budget things in this document like last year?

  12. Running on nothing worked last time, right?

    Were there any non-budget things in this document like last year?

    • New feature – Harper photo gallery.

  13. BTW, you both were wrong. #team2011

  14. "Harper is ……formidable political operator". Really, not one majority and everyone hates him now. Really?

  15. Ignatieff was not around when Sponsorship occurred. Best thing ever for Liberal Party at this time.

  16. "Harper is ……formidable political operator". Really, not one majority and everyone hates him now. Really?

    • "Everyone hates him", strong statement, I don't so that already nullifies this statement.

  17. Ignatieff was not around when Sponsorship occurred. Best thing ever for Liberal Party at this time.

    • But many of the Liberal MP's sitting behind him were 'just sitting' there when the sponsor ship scandal took place

  18. I don't know whether to call you two Bonnie and Clyde, Laverne and Shirley or Wayne and Shuster? It's all good. I love Coyne and Wells.

  19. I don't know whether to call you two Bonnie and Clyde, Laverne and Shirley or Wayne and Shuster? It's all good. I love Coyne and Wells.

    • Cognac & Bologna?

      • Kudos for the obscure Doug and the Slugs reference.

  20. Re: the Cons and the airwaves, does Coyne not realize that the spending limits mean the Libs and NDP will be substantially matching the Cons' spending during the campaign, while the absence of government-based ads may actually mean the Cons have less presence than for most of the past couple of years?

  21. Re: the Cons and the airwaves, does Coyne not realize that the spending limits mean the Libs and NDP will be substantially matching the Cons' spending during the campaign, while the absence of government-based ads may actually mean the Cons have less presence than for most of the past couple of years?

    • Perhaps Coyne meant that the Cons will flood the airwaves from now until the official writ is dropped. Which is what they are doing.

  22. "Everyone hates him", strong statement, I don't so that already nullifies this statement.

  23. New feature – Harper photo gallery.

  24. Uh.. you do know that you can have more than one line per message, right?

  25. Ummm, he more than admitted that.

  26. Ummm, he more than admitted that.

  27. Next week, on Harper: SUPER! FORMIDABLE! POLITICAL! OPERATOR!…

  28. Next week, on Harper: SUPER! FORMIDABLE! POLITICAL! OPERATOR!…

    • Hey, how come your total points go down but mine stay at 84 – plus!

      • Yeah, I don't know what the deal….liberal conspiracy no doubt!

  29. But

  30. Thwim

  31. that

  32. would

  33. be

  34. much

  35. less

  36. The duo may have been wrong about the election year but they certainly have improved their videos. It is much easier to watch them in a coffee break setting than their original mom’s basement web-cam thing – good decision.

    As for the election, Ignatieff will still have difficulty connecting with voters outside of the J-club. A year of handshakes and BBQs has not improved his popularity. It is not a co-incidence that those numbers drop the more he is in front on the cameras.

  37. The duo may have been wrong about the election year but they certainly have improved their videos. It is much easier to watch them in a coffee break setting than their original mom’s basement web-cam thing – good decision.

    As for the election, Ignatieff will still have difficulty connecting with voters outside of the J-club. A year of handshakes and BBQs has not improved his popularity. It is not a co-incidence that those numbers drop the more he is in front on the cameras.

    • I think that's a good point. The assumption has been that he'll be a better campaign that Dion was. However, Iggy has two challenges to overcome. One, his bio. Dion, for all his broken English, stayed here to fight for national unity. Iggy was in Britain and Harvard forever. Two, Iggy's manner. He might well come across as the kind of arrogant elitist that the Conservatives have been depicting him as all along – even if his English is flawless.

  38. I see what you're doing there, with those multiple posts…you're just giving us more opportunity to help you salvage your reputation/score….well I did what I could. You're welcome. ;-)

  39. Thanks, that was the secondary reason (closely behind the obvious joke). I made some comments last week in support of the Harper regime and I nosedived from +60 to -40 before I could say "super formidable political operator"!

    That degree of change is like travelling from Saskatoon to Fort Myers in the middle of February!

  40. Actually thats a good technique . . . you can claim 9 thumbs up with that stream

  41. Cognac & Bologna?

  42. Kudos for the obscure Doug and the Slugs reference.

  43. First…great improvement on the sound quality. Thank you for that.

    Second…How come I keep hearing reporters (not just you two) say that they didn't know what Layton was going to do? I'm sitting out here in Winnipeg with no access to anybody, I didn't get to read the budget in lock-up, and I knew that there was a better than even chance Layton was going to pull the plug.

    Andrew did mention that the NDP doesn't get as much coverage as the other parties, which is true. Here's a thought. Cover the NDP as much as you cover the other parties, do it honestly, and next time maybe you'll know what Layton is going to do.

  44. First…great improvement on the sound quality. Thank you for that.

    Second…How come I keep hearing reporters (not just you two) say that they didn't know what Layton was going to do? I'm sitting out here in Winnipeg with no access to anybody, I didn't get to read the budget in lock-up, and I knew that there was a better than even chance Layton was going to pull the plug.

    Andrew did mention that the NDP doesn't get as much coverage as the other parties, which is true. Here's a thought. Cover the NDP as much as you cover the other parties, do it honestly, and next time maybe you'll know what Layton is going to do.

    • I agree. The NDP warrants much more coverage. The NDP may not be my choice for political party, but they always have some things to stand on. Always. So much cannot be said about the Liberals lately.

  45. But many of the Liberal MP's sitting behind him were 'just sitting' there when the sponsor ship scandal took place

  46. Like the format better of the two of them being in one room together (Coyne and Wells that is)

    Comment:

    running on the budget – not much there, when you break it all down

    running on the scandals – not much there, when you break it all down

    Pretty evenly matched, I would say!

  47. Like the format better of the two of them being in one room together (Coyne and Wells that is)

    Comment:

    running on the budget – not much there, when you break it all down

    running on the scandals – not much there, when you break it all down

    Pretty evenly matched, I would say!

  48. I think that's a good point. The assumption has been that he'll be a better campaign that Dion was. However, Iggy has two challenges to overcome. One, his bio. Dion, for all his broken English, stayed here to fight for national unity. Iggy was in Britain and Harvard forever. Two, Iggy's manner. He might well come across as the kind of arrogant elitist that the Conservatives have been depicting him as all along – even if his English is flawless.

  49. Yes well, I suppose if we wanted to take the analogy that literally, I would also have to change it to El Azizia, Libya to Saskatoon, and also make sure that everyone knows that we're talking about Celsius….
    http://www.enotes.com/science-fact-finder/weather

  50. I agree. The NDP warrants much more coverage. The NDP may not be my choice for political party, but they always have some things to stand on. Always. So much cannot be said about the Liberals lately.

  51. Hey, how come your total points go down but mine stay at 84 – plus!

  52. Was that Jason Kenney eavesdropping at the 7:30 mark?

  53. Was that Jason Kenney eavesdropping at the 7:30 mark?

  54. why is it the commercials work fine but when i get to the actual video it doesn't work?

    • The ad wasn't very challenging to bandwith: mostly still photos, so it didn't freeze up. Is my guess.

    • I always have freeze up problems with he Wells/Coyne videos – not with anything else.

  55. why is it the commercials work fine but when i get to the actual video it doesn't work?

  56. The ad wasn't very challenging to bandwith: mostly still photos, so it didn't freeze up. Is my guess.

  57. Multi-camera! You guys are going all pro on us!

    And then Paul goes and says something bizarre like "let's suppose the Liberals get 130 seats…"

  58. Multi-camera! You guys are going all pro on us!

    And then Paul goes and says something bizarre like "let's suppose the Liberals get 130 seats…"

  59. It will be interesting to watch "we Americans" Iggy (and cancer stricken Jack) going after Stephen Harper and trying to convince Canadians to evict the Harper Family … Rachel, Benjamin, Laureen and Stephen …from 24 Sussex and replace them with born-again pretend Canadian Iggy and his non-Canadian wife … who's only mutual interest seems to be reading books and sipping fine wines.

    • What a classless post.

    • Get out there on the campaign trail and say that…i'll guarantee you'll hand Ignatieff the sympathy vote. There is no such thing in this country as a unCanadian individual; it's an American import we should not put up with.If you're right and i'm wrong, then i have badly misjudged my country.

  60. It will be interesting to watch "we Americans" Iggy (and cancer stricken Jack) going after Stephen Harper and trying to convince Canadians to evict the Harper Family … Rachel, Benjamin, Laureen and Stephen …from 24 Sussex and replace them with born-again pretend Canadian Iggy and his non-Canadian wife … who's only mutual interest seems to be reading books and sipping fine wines.

  61. I always have freeze up problems with he Wells/Coyne videos – not with anything else.

  62. What a classless post.

  63. Get out there on the campaign trail and say that…i'll guarantee you'll hand Ignatieff the sympathy vote. There is no such thing in this country as a unCanadian individual; it's an American import we should not put up with.If you're right and i'm wrong, then i have badly misjudged my country.

  64. Way to throw PWs under the bus Andrew. That was most adroitly done. Quick to the punch too.
    It gets better and better. Maybe Coyne vs Wells will wind up challenging at issue for popularity…that would put AC in a bit of a quandary.

    Although i am overstating the impact of macleans just a bit i suppose?

  65. Way to throw PWs under the bus Andrew. That was most adroitly done. Quick to the punch too.
    It gets better and better. Maybe Coyne vs Wells will wind up challenging at issue for popularity…that would put AC in a bit of a quandary.

    Although i am overstating the impact of macleans just a bit i suppose?

  66. Conservatives are way too confused to be able to govern. Obama is a Reagan Democrat, Hilary Clinton is a Goldwater Republican, Reagan was Nixon's puppet, Bush was Cheney's gopher and now, Donald Trump wants to fire them all.

    The ONLY thing that these has-beens and wanabes have in common is this:

    http://ahabit.com/axiom.htm

    There's no business like show bu$ine$$ !

    Politics is the biggest Cabaret show on the planet. The Conservatives poured money into Obama's campaign because they hated and feared the candidacy of Hilary Clinton, and when Obama won, they were so shocked they tried to Tea Party him out of town, but America's Gadaffi survived. Perhaps, they have settled down because they have finally realized that Obama is the real thing -a Reagan Democrat.

    Pompous Canadians, who make fun of the politics south of the border, ought to realize that we are just like them. Harper is a spendthrift Liberal and Ignatieff is a fiscal Conservative. What on earth do you expect when the head of Canada's huge deficit is a lawyer like Jim Flaherty?

  67. I'm all confused. Wells is on the left, and Coyne is on the right.

  68. I'm all confused. Wells is on the left, and Coyne is on the right.

  69. My election strategy if I was a Liberal – promote team, and try to put Harper into a funk – he'll self destruct.

    • Agree. He was said to be close to quitting over the coalition fiasco – there's still a pouty little boy in SH that would like to take his ball and go home.

  70. My election strategy if I was a Liberal – promote team, and try to put Harper into a funk – he'll self destruct.

  71. Great job on the production! The steady cameras, the quiet ambiance and excellent sound quality, the choice of a booth in the back to avoid the distracting hustle and bustle of servers and other customers…it all adds up to a really professional looking and entertaining package. With the production elements all working together, it's much easier to focus on the substance of the discussion, which I believe was also helped by the in-person setting. It's hard to have a quality back-and-forth with webcams, talking over each other becomes an issue and it's just more difficult to get a natural, conversational rhythem going. This set-up is a huge improvement over both the traditional Coyne vs. Wells webcam style and last week's initial foray into the real world. Excellent job all around! Cheers.

    • Thanks Zach! We've certainly learned from our earlier attempts.

  72. Great job on the production! The steady cameras, the quiet ambiance and excellent sound quality, the choice of a booth in the back to avoid the distracting hustle and bustle of servers and other customers…it all adds up to a really professional looking and entertaining package. With the production elements all working together, it's much easier to focus on the substance of the discussion, which I believe was also helped by the in-person setting. It's hard to have a quality back-and-forth with webcams, talking over each other becomes an issue and it's just more difficult to get a natural, conversational rhythem going. This set-up is a huge improvement over both the traditional Coyne vs. Wells webcam style and last week's initial foray into the real world. Excellent job all around! Cheers.

  73. Regarding format – improving with every take. Well done Maclean's in shaking up the format. I like the more steady camera and better sound. The location is interesting but looked a little barren. Was it not happy hour at the bar? I'm encouraging Wells and Coyne to keep trying this kind of format.

    Here's an idea – how about you run a little write-in contest and ask followers to suggest a location? Winner gets to be a guest pundit or suggest a lead topic?

    • I'm going for hooters. Do they still have hooters?…maybe not…

      But i am looking forward to the shirtsleeves and the barbie…and the cool one of course…make mine a Hefe Weizen guys.

  74. Regarding format – improving with every take. Well done Maclean's in shaking up the format. I like the more steady camera and better sound. The location is interesting but looked a little barren. Was it not happy hour at the bar? I'm encouraging Wells and Coyne to keep trying this kind of format.

    Here's an idea – how about you run a little write-in contest and ask followers to suggest a location? Winner gets to be a guest pundit or suggest a lead topic?

  75. I can see where these 'debates' appeal to the Toronto 'elite' on the left but methinks to middle-class Canada they aren't accomplishing much more than a couple old gals around a sewing circle. A guy and his wife sitting around the kitchen table want to talk about how party policies are going to affect them and could care less about what a hero/idiot Layton is. Please put some substance in these discussions. I know, hard to do for said eastern 'elite'.

    • I sincerely hope you are not an actual judge

    • Just exactly what would two pundits in the west be saying any differently right about now.? Hating eastern elites isn't any more moral than hating western hicks, is it?

    • Dude, if you don't like them, don't watch … myself? Love them …

  76. I can see where these 'debates' appeal to the Toronto 'elite' on the left but methinks to middle-class Canada they aren't accomplishing much more than a couple old gals around a sewing circle. A guy and his wife sitting around the kitchen table want to talk about how party policies are going to affect them and could care less about what a hero/idiot Layton is. Please put some substance in these discussions. I know, hard to do for said eastern 'elite'.

  77. Not from their point of view

  78. Yeah, I don't know what the deal….liberal conspiracy no doubt!

  79. Agree. He was said to be close to quitting over the coalition fiasco – there's still a pouty little boy in SH that would like to take his ball and go home.

  80. I sincerely hope you are not an actual judge

  81. I'm going for hooters. Do they still have hooters?…maybe not…

    But i am looking forward to the shirtsleeves and the barbie…and the cool one of course…make mine a Hefe Weizen guys.

  82. Just exactly what would two pundits in the west be saying any differently right about now.? Hating eastern elites isn't any more moral than hating western hicks, is it?

  83. I thought it was a good budget.What does layton want? oh, and election!!

  84. I thought it was a good budget.What does layton want? oh, and election!!

  85. Party subsidies should be gone, I dont want to fund the bloc!

    If they run as a coalition, say so before this election, not after.

    • Amen —Brother

  86. Party subsidies should be gone, I dont want to fund the bloc!

    If they run as a coalition, say so before this election, not after.

  87. Dude, if you don't like them, don't watch … myself? Love them …

  88. I'd be interested to hear Coyne and Wells debate the legality of a provincial government operating on the federal level. Quebec already has a provincial government. Shouldn't a federal party, by law, have to represent the entire country?

  89. I'd be interested to hear Coyne and Wells debate the legality of a provincial government operating on the federal level. Quebec already has a provincial government. Shouldn't a federal party, by law, have to represent the entire country?

    • Holly smokes, I just saw this, wow ; )

  90. Layton was a superstar on tuesday. I think it was one of the best moments in Canadian Politics. We all took him for granted, and he was amazing! He got all the attention and it was well deserved. Can he keep it up? I don't know, after what I saw yesterday, the moment is gone, but time will tell.

    And he really also needs to be honest about his health, I know is a delicate subject and deserves much privacy but is not small potatoes what he is seeking and we deserve the truth, I mean, God forbides and he has to retire because of his health, we need to know our options and what will happen if that's the case, I strongly believe the campaign will take a heavy toll on his health and I won't be surprise if he has to leave the trail.

  91. Layton was a superstar on tuesday. I think it was one of the best moments in Canadian Politics. We all took him for granted, and he was amazing! He got all the attention and it was well deserved. Can he keep it up? I don't know, after what I saw yesterday, the moment is gone, but time will tell.

    And he really also needs to be honest about his health, I know is a delicate subject and deserves much privacy but is not small potatoes what he is seeking and we deserve the truth, I mean, God forbides and he has to retire because of his health, we need to know our options and what will happen if that's the case, I strongly believe the campaign will take a heavy toll on his health and I won't be surprise if he has to leave the trail.

  92. I agree with Andrew, Ignatieff is a good storyteller, very personable, you can tell why he is a good teacher, he engages easily. But he is doesn't have a politician instinct. A lot of journalists are saying that he finally got his fire, I think they are confusing anger with passion, he is very angry, people doesn't connect with him and he can't get that, he is a man who is used to be adored, with a very healthy ego and his word has always meant something big, he likes to blame Harper for this but it has nothing to do with Harper, it is his personality that clashes he has a difficult one andthat's one of the reasons why he has always been a hard sale from the start and then his lack of political instinct is a bad combination.
    I agree he is a great storyteller but a terrible political storymaker.

  93. Perhaps Coyne meant that the Cons will flood the airwaves from now until the official writ is dropped. Which is what they are doing.

  94. Our dear Mr. Wherry posted one or two months ago a link where Harper talks about a coalition and how is the only way to bring down a minority government. Mr. Wherry thought it was very astute to show Harper is a hypocrate but I thought it was genious, if anything made his point stronger. Harper knows they work and it is their only shot at this point to get him out.

    It has never been about the coalition itself but about the players and that's why the odds are in Harper's favor , Dion didn't work and Ignatieff won't either (his popularity is even worse that Dion's and his numbers won't change he is crystal pepsi) the BQ doesn't really matter what most people notice is the leader and if it is anything like what happened yesterday, people will show Mr. Ignatieff a third door, the exit door, this is the let's get it over campaign for Ignatieff, he is not made to play second fiddle he is either the PM or not, he can't help it is his personality.

    I do predict a big win for Harper, I might be eating my words, I guess will see!
    http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/02/24/the-way-he-was

  95. Our dear Mr. Wherry posted one or two months ago a link where Harper talks about a coalition and how is the only way to bring down a minority government. Mr. Wherry thought it was very astute to show Harper is a hypocrate but I thought it was genious, if anything made his point stronger. Harper knows they work and it is their only shot at this point to get him out.

    It has never been about the coalition itself but about the players and that's why the odds are in Harper's favor , Dion didn't work and Ignatieff won't either (his popularity is even worse that Dion's and his numbers won't change he is crystal pepsi) the BQ doesn't really matter what most people notice is the leader and if it is anything like what happened yesterday, people will show Mr. Ignatieff a third door, the exit door, this is the let's get it over campaign for Ignatieff, he is not made to play second fiddle he is either the PM or not, he can't help it is his personality.

    I do predict a big win for Harper, I might be eating my words, I guess will see!
    http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/02/24/the-way-he-was

  96. Holly smokes, I just saw this, wow ; )

  97. Thanks Zach! We've certainly learned from our earlier attempts.

  98. Needless to say I am angry to be subjected to another elction. But I am also an angy Canadiain. Why are we always looking to Gov't to look after us. I am an over 75 senior on a fixed income and live within my means. I have great health care as everyone else and am greatful. Canadians have a life envied by others. Just look beyond our borders. I am tired of Canadians who have champagne tastes and are not happy because the gov't can't give us everything we think we are entitled to. Gov't must tighten their belts and we as Canadians have to as well. Look after the most vulnerable in our society YES but a multi million dollar arena etc. no. Maybe some
    day but now is not the time. Grow up Canada and stop your complaining about what you don't have and be greatful for what you do have.

  99. Amen —Brother

  100. Great episode – but still waiting on that audio feed so I can listen to it on my ipod.

  101. Great episode – but still waiting on that audio feed so I can listen to it on my ipod.

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