Ground Zero Mosque an election issue - Macleans.ca
 

Ground Zero Mosque an election issue

The religious centre fuels Islamophobia as anti-Muslim protests sweep the U.S.


 

The Islamophobia that has swept the U.S. following 9/11 is being heightened by the battle over plans to build a mosque near Ground Zero in New York. And now, this issue has become a hot election topic in the run-up to mid-term elections in November. Sarah Palin has been a vociferous opponent of the mosque, and Newt Gingrich has said the mosque provides evidence that Muslims are attempting to impose sharia law in the U.S. There’s also reportedly been a surge in anti-Muslim protests across the country, including opposition to new Islamic centres from California to Georgia, plans by a Florida church to hold a “burn the Qur’an” day on September 11, and a New York group called the American Freedom Defence Initiative, which is placing adverts on New York buses showing a plane flying into one of the World Trade Center towers and asking, “Why There?”

The Guardian


 
Filed under:

Ground Zero Mosque an election issue

  1. Issues of Religious Freedom aside, you cannot tell me that this is not a rubbing in the face of the 9-11 events toward Americans. It most certainly is. Go ahead build your Mosque. But if you think it will translate into respect for Muslim's and their religion you are wrong. We cannot stop you, but you cannot tell us how we should feel about it! You may think you are promoting peace but what you are doing is stoking animosity.

    • There's a mosque at the Pentagon, you know. Where was the right-wing objections to that? Was it not there because it was put in there while Bush was President?

      Hypocrites and fearmongers, all of you – who push this idiotic screed.

    • Not to mention this Mosque isn't really being built at ground zero. As Jon Stewart said, it's really ground zero-adjacent.

      • Must be a cold day tonight in a hot place.. Ross and I agree on something, it appears.

        • If you spent less time listening to the loonies you've gathered under your wing and more time paying attention for yourself, you'd know how often that happens.

          • I dont gather anything, Patrick. And I quite disagree they're loonies.

          • Some of them aren't.

            Crystal Ocean, Saskboy, Stageleft — there are a few gems stuck in there.

            But seriously, bro: CK? Jim Parrot? Thwap? Montreal Simon? Mark Francis? The Galloping Beaver? The Chickenwankers? The Clowncar Brigade?

            You CAN'T seriously be proud of that particular bunch.

  2. What a slant. People being against building an Islamic Centre at the cite of a terrorist conquest is not equivalent to "anti-muslim" protests. Even Koran burning isn't anti-Muslim – it's anti-Islam. It's just as legal as building a mosque on Ground Zero.

    • It seems like it doesn't matter WHERE Muslims want to build a Mosque, protests seem to abound in the US.

      They're wrong on this issue.

      • No mosque should be allowed in the free world, period. Had you ever read the Koran, Sira and Hadiths you'd know the vast majority of what's taught is how evil, vile and filthy the kuffar (you and me) is and that bcs the vast majority of the Koran, Sira and Hadiths are about the evil, vile and filthy kuffar, except the parts that are about the sons of apes and pigs.

        Islam isn't merely an "issue" but the self-named opponent in a war FOR civilization.

        Canada needs to stop Muslim immigration immediately and no, Islam is not a race. It is a whole life ideology that sees itself atop the "religious" foodchain which is why they insist on always building their triumphal mosque atop (or as close to …) the others religious or otherwise reverred location. Ask the Hindu about Ayodhya, for just one lookup.

        • "No Mosque should be allowed in the free world"?

          DId you even THINK about this for TWO SECONDS before you wrote that?

          By definition, any world that forbids people from practicing their religion isn't a free world.

          • Islam isn't a "religion" but a whole life ideology with rules for Muslims AND non-muslims alike. Islam's beard is "religion" but it operates much more like an army than imposes one than a religion; what with the death penalty for those who leave (apostates).

            It might be time for you to realize the truth of Islamic history doesn't square with the propaganda of how tolerant, peaceful and joyous it was to be a dhimmi under the thumb of Muslims. Yes, this would cause you to adhere to facts and absorb a lot of chilling Islamic texts. Stiff reading for the kuffar y'know!

            By your definition of what the free world must do to prove its the free world by allowing or promoting Islam, it is clear you don't understand Islam at all. Its a very different kind of "religion" that encourages lying to deceive the kuffar of its agenda.

            "DId you even THINK about this for TWO SECONDS before you wrote that" response to me?

      • Islam is not like any other "faith" in that it permits their adherents to lie (al taqiyya) to the infidel in order to advance or conceal the advancement of Islam. So, just as Islam permits their true believers to lie, us non-believers are under no obligation to believe a lying word but I will make an exception in regards to the Muslim Brotherhood that says Islam is in America to "destroy their miserable house from within." Oh, and they also seek to replace the US Constitution with Shari'a.

        From the comments posted so far, I don't get the sense you guys really understand Islam at all, have ever consulted history, read any of Mo's biographies (Bukari or Muslim), are at all familiar with the Koran, Sira or Hadiths or otherwise have anything to contribute beyond your *feelings.*

        Test your knowledge of Islam for yourself and locate Dar al Harb on a map.

        Al taqiyya allows a Muslim to renounce everything, even Mo.

        • It didn't require even two seconds to realize you're wrong.

          You aren't interested in a free society. You're simply interested in an anti-Islam religious crusade that will destroy freedoms and consume lives.

          You're an Islamophobe who knows only what you WANT to know about Islam — and all you want to know about Islam confirms your fallacious view that the religion itself is violent and dangerous.

          It's called a confirmation bias. Any amount of argument with you regarding Islam would be futile, because you'll simply refuse to acknowledge any fact or idea that doesn't confirm your bias.

          • Funny you should mention "crusade." Mo invented them y'know. The Christian crusades were in response to the imperialism of Islam or do you side with Islam that the Crusades were an insult to their self-proclaimed superiority too?

            Being called an "Islamophobe" by someone clueless about Islam is not an insult or remotely demeaning, for what that means is this infidel knows too much about Islam to be fooled by taqiyya. Yeah, I don't backslide once a new fact is absorbed; how about you?

            My "bias" is the bias of all those who have had to defend themselves from Islam since its founding "religious crusade" that Muslims are now celebrating via Ramadan. That would be the testimony of Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, Hindus, Sikhs, Taoists, Animists, Confusions, Druze and on and on. The common denominator with the aforementioned is their attempts to repel Islam over the past 1400 years.

          • The Christian Crusades murdered a lot of innocent Jews and Muslims. (And I say that as a practising Christian). You're a real wingnut if you're turning that quest into something heroic.

          • Yes, yes, yes, the common refrain is the Christians had no right to repell Islam which is what the Christian Crusades were all about. Christians = bad; Islam = no comment, investigation or critical thinking.

            Funny, you guys just cannot muster the courage to investigate who really started the very idea of a "religious" crusade and what that meant for any and all in the path of the imperialism of Islam. I repeat, that would be the testimony of Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, Hindus, Sikhs, Taoists, Animists, Confusions, Druze and on and on and I might add, to this very day.

            Islam hasn't changed much since Mo beheaded his first.

            And no, I'm not denying the Christian's murdered, rampaged and pillaged in their response to Islam. Heck, I'm not even Christian.

          • Bad history, occ 9. I'd tell you about it, but you'd just refuse to listen.

          • Patrick, you have yet to put forth any counter argument based on an understanding of Islam so I doubt you really have much to tell anyone about. Had you actually read the Koran, Sira and Hadith you'd know there's not much to sell Islam to the infidel with. The peace, love and understanding verses were abrogated by Mo when he found he couldn't get anywhere without the sword. It has been thus ever since and that is the Islamic way as demonstrated by Islam's "perfect man."

            Here's you chance to educate the casual reader about the tolerant glories of Islam throughout history and don't forget to hilight the lone period of Islamic rule in Analusia (Spain) when the victorious Muslims didn't destroy everything as haram and all non-muslims lived as second or third class citizens until Queen Isabella regained Spain.

            Tell us now, where in the world today, where Islam is dominant do minority religions live without constant fear?

          • Yikes, my spelling! Make that Andalusia not Analusia.

          • I understand Islam far, far better than you do.

            Like I said before, I've dealt with your ilk before, and I already know how people like yourself operate: the only facts you'll acknowledge are the ones that prop up your argument. You'll refuse to acknowledge anything else.

            There's no sense getting into a protracted discussion of Islam with you — none whatsoever. You've already proven yourself a waste of my time, and I'm not going to indulge you that far.

          • "… the only facts you'll acknowledge are the ones that prop up your argument…"

            Again Patrick, you could try putting up some facts to debate over. I'm unconvinced you could sustain a "protracted discussion of Islam" let alone an informed one. I won't debate you on your feelings.

            What I've really proven is that you have no credible response to the points that I've repeated from the scads of history regarding Islam. This isn't about me or my "ilk" unless you're willing to include the ~270 million people (Buddhists, Animists, Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, Hindus, Sikhs …) murdered since Islam's founding as my "ilk." I guess in a sense, they are my "ilk." It's about all of us non-muslims and that includes infidels who THINK just as flippantly as you, Patrick.

            I acknowledge reality and history Patrick. What do you acknowledge? Fantasy and feelings? Utopia? Unicorns? "Moderate" Muslims who only want to the "right" to enslave, genitally mutilate or "honour kill" their own freeborn Canadian women?

          • Try to put up some sort of factual response Patrick. It's the least you could do.

            Or, you could bow out of the conversation and admit you cannot respond but with your politically correct feelings and complain how unfair it is that no one regards your remarks as carrying any form of sustance.

            Your choice.

          • I'm not going to waste that kind of time on you. Get it through your thick skull.

          • The issues with Islam have been around longer than me or you—especially you.

            Why do you post on a thread regarding Islam and mosques if you're so reluctant to include at least one fact or argument to defend your head-in-the-sand, a**-in-the-air position, brave, brave Sir Robin?

          • He can't put up a factual response. All he's done is called you names, assumed you are part of an "ilk" he regards as beneath him, and asserted he is your superior — sounds like he knows nothing about Islam despite being very Islamic ie. supremacist.

          • I know far, far more about Islam than Occupant. Because unlike Occupant, I don't choose to acknowledge only facts that I like.

          • Ah! So you know nothing about Islam.

          • *snicker*

            If you really think you can goad me into wasting time on this twit, you're severely mistaken.

          • Patrick, try putting forth an argument to defend your position that Islam isn't what it is, that the Koran doesn't say what it does, that the Sira has nothing to do with the life of Mo, that the Hadith are just so much Saturday morning cartoons (except cartoons of Mo, that is).

            From the tone of your posts, I suspect you couldn't sustain a "protracted discussion of Islam." Heck, you can't even manage a small one without looking for an out.

            What about all those casual readers for whom you are their pro-Islamic champion? Why would you let them down so easily when you can show me and my "ilk" what it really means to submit to Islam?

          • Patrick, try replying with some substance to help my "ilk" see how haram/wrong it is for an infidel to "understand" Islam just as the Muslim does. I can't wait for it also means the Muslims who keep Mecca are also wrong, wrong, wrong!

            Since you know Islam and they clearly don't, it is your duty to your fellow man, Muslim and infidel alike, to speak up!

            Don't hold back on my account, please.

          • I've visited your site and it has lots of conservatism in general to agree with. I did not look through all of it but didn't find much in the way of posts concerning Islam; not even in the tags of your post on Pakistan.

            Islam has been a topic of great interest to me for 15 years now. My "understandings" have earned me and my family (yup, wife and kids too), colleagues and clients (yes clients!), special *interest* from Muslims near and far. I have found an entry on me at loonwatch, the far Leftist/Muslim hate site for harassing free people who aren't interested in pretending Islam isn't what it is. But, I'm not a public figure, author or otherwise interested in the limelight. I'm just a free man who had his anonymous ID compromised.

            And yes, the threat was/is real enough that my local police took an interest too. New ground for them they said.

            Islam doesn't debate nuance when Muslims can make their response physical and personal. Ask Theo van Gogh, the murdered Dutch filmmaker, if this is indeed the case.

          • Theo van Gogh was killed by a Muslim extremist whose ideology represents a minority of Muslims.

            Your next act will now be to deny that moderate Muslims exist — and this is why I won't waste my time discussing this topic with you.

          • It's clear why you won't "waste your time." Regardless of your conservative views, on Islam, they're as liberal and politically correct as they come. That means you really are at a disadvantage … from Islam.

            van Gogh's murderer shares the same Islam as that preached from the Great Mosque in Mecca. This "minority" according to CAIR, is only 10% of Muslims = 150 million "extremists." But we know CAIR is practising taqiyya/lying and so the "minority" of "extremists" grows, doesn't it?

            Jihad isn't only an act of murder. It is by stealth too. It is zakat (Muslim charity). It is dawa (outreach). It is anything and everything that promotes or furthers the aims of Islam.

          • I have read the Koran, Sira and Hadith and closely scrutinized Islamic conflicts (past and present) and clearly, you haven't or you'd actually have a clue that there is no Islamic scripture to counter me with for they were all abrogated with the Verse of the Sword, by Mo, in his lifetime.

            BTW, so far, you haven't supplied "any fact or idea" that would demonstate a basic understanding of Islam from the infidel's POV. You're simply out of your depth with nothing but political correctness to guide you and it won't guide you to find where Dar al Harb is on a map.*

            *Hint: you're living in it for Dar al Harb is the Realm of War, land Islam has yet to conquer, as opposed to Dar al Islam, the Realm of Islam, where Islam is dominant.

            You may not believe in jihad but jihad believes in you and me, infidel and kuffar. The defense of our free society requires more attention than the less than "two seconds" kneejerk time you're willing to put into it.

          • Further to the "Islamophobe" charge: Did you know the OIC, in their first ever report produced only a few years ago also claimed "Islamophobia" has been with Islam since Islam's founding?

            Hmm and gosh. Our ancestors had problems with Islam too and all due to the apparently *flimsy reality* that Islam wanted to dominate them as well.

          • Sad to say, but Occupant9 is absolutely right. I come from a Muslim majority country and being a minority there aint no fun. Are all my muslim friends hateful, of course not. Was I a third-class citizen in that country, absolutely yes. Do I want to see that same mentality creep into life in Canada, whadya think?

            Patrick on the other hand, does not have too many hard choices to make in life. The biggest would, I guess be, how to come accross as conservative and yet not get a fatwa against him. When you proclaim that you "know far, far more about Islam" here or anywhere else, you must be aware that it brings up a gag response from all of us here (collectively knows as "ILK" )whom you assume know so, so little about the subject.

            Best advice to Patrick, read some books (doesnt matter what, start with Mills&Boons and simply change the main characters to Imperialistic yet now Sympathetic Westerner and Grenade toting, Hijab Hottie) When you can figure out whos actually screwing whom, put your ideas down on paper. Make sure you write more than just 4 sentences, check sp, then post your thoughts here.

        • aha! an enlightened person here after all!! good to hear from you, occupant 9!

  3. don't get your knickers in a tizzy about this new word islamophobia!….this word is probably meant to give these idiots a reason for existence which is distasteful, arrogant, cheap and not intelligent….now we have a definition
    islamophobic my axxx and your axxx!! yeah right!
    i am not anti anything i am pro quality of life…..anger and religion not included!

    • An "Islamophobe" is someone who is unwilling to jettison every current and historical fact learned about Islam for the sake of submission to Islam's trigger-happy feelings of "humiliation" that they are being called on their lies/taqiyya.

  4. Bottom line: Do we support religious freedom or not. That is the only issue here

    • The fact that you believe your assertion is "the only issue here" just confirms that you are a useful idiot for the Islamists. As many have already tried to tell you politically correct types on this board, religion is the smokescreen that a militant movement is using to accompish its advances.

      • If you want to throw out relgious freedom (because that is what your comment entails), then be explicit about it. But remember history is filled with examples of what happens when you start down this path.

        Freedom for some is freedom for none.

        • Um, no, although that's one heck of a bumper sticker and about as deep. Religious freedom is also freedom from and in the case of Islam, ALL religions need freedom from it.

          The only "religion" that doesn't reciprocate the idea of religious freedom is Islam and it never has and never will. Islam is unlike any other "religion" and has shown this over and over again, from the first Mo's first MILITARY (which is what is Ramadan celebrates) victory, to the latest woman stoned or gay man executed for their lifestyle.

        • Tell you what scruffydan; when the Islamists allow Christians to erect a cathedral in Mecca, we'll revisit the issue of true world-wide 'freedom of religion'. Until then, let's traffic in reality, shall we? The Judeo-Christian foundation that underpins Western society must be defended from the medieval-minded, Islamic militant movement that is the real threat to it.

    • scruffydan, the real issue here is Islam. Ignore the inner details of the cult at your wives and daughters peril.

      We can all support religious freedom but Islam is no mere "religion." Call your local imam for the comforting taqiyya you so desire.

      Tell us please: why is it that Muslims issue a fatwa upon anyone who dares speak out against the cult of Islam if Islam is so benign and fundamentally peaceful?

      Do you have any and I mean ANY idea of what the "Verse of the Sword" is and the Islamic scriptural method of abrogation?

  5. Islam is a political movement with a veneer of religion to back it up, the veneer of religion is required in order to get the stupid to suicide themselves in order to further the politics of the movement. The Mosque is an insult to civilized people everywhere and should not be built, Muslims have a wide range of uncivilized countries they can go live in.

    • Again, where was your outrage at the mosque that was built inside the Pentagon a few years ago?

      • Yeah, there's no accounting for PC idiodicy. The State Dept is also rather a group of Islamophiles too, so I guess that makes it all ok.

        A mosque in the Pentagon merely shows how political correctness of our era has trumped the common sense of our forefathers.

        • The Pentagon, if you have ever visited, is very big. It has internal facilities including a shopping mall, churches, etc. because a lot of its employees essentially live in the Pentagon. This may sound crazy, but some Muslims actually work for the Pentagon, because for instance, there aren't so many guys named Bob Smith that speak Arabic (among other things).

          • Very true. And it is crazy. Under what US administration was the intel community disconnected from talking to each other?

  6. not against religion to those who try to keep the peace order and good government where it becomes distasteful is when it is used for another purpose….my question is, do we have a built in brain or mindful mechanism to relay to our actions what is good or what is bad in terms of actions and relative causes?….my answer is yes…so therefore simply said….why is religion necessary?

    • I think the bigger question is why the Left has no tolerance for the Judeo-Christian model but all the tolerance in the world for the most intolerant of ideological creeds, one that would ironically destroy the secular Left first and due entirely to the Left's cherished G-dlessness?

  7. Although what I thought of religion as a source of many evil, I still believe that all religions that promotes peaceful coexistence with other religions have to be supported. As for the mosque near ground zero, it is rephensible and appalling that organizers and developers of this project have the insensitivity to build it there. Having said that, one can't argue the legitimacy of such project – for there is no law that prevents them from doing just that. As for promoting understanding on Islam, they just succeeded in doing the opposite. I really wonder what their true purpose other than rubbing salt on injury, and in this, I can't blame those people who are against this project.

    • i luv your opinion and respect it and will protect it as long as the freedom to express it exists in this time space continuum we designate as life

    • "As for promoting understanding on Islam, they just succeeded in doing the opposite. I really wonder what their true purpose other than rubbing salt on injury…"

      "Understanding" Islam doesn't automatically mean we accept it, respect it or promote it as what we non-muslims want it to be, which is peaceful. It is the case that we are all getting a profound "understanding" of Islam from the very desire to build a mosque atop or near the location of a great Islamic victory or military strike. This is mere Islamic history of conquests and behaviour toward the infidel/kuffar. The West will "humiliate" Islam by not allowing it to build a supremacist structure at or near Ground Zero.

      Wonder no more.

  8. here is where it gets dangerous….when hundreds, thousands, millions follow an idealogy, dogma, contrived control…have we not learned from history?

  9. The little factoid that a portion of the media is failing to report is that this proposed community center (that houses the mosque) is being built two blocks away in a former Burlington Coat Factory building. So, my question to those who feel this is simply an issue of "bad taste is, how far away should it be? 4 blocks? 8 blocks? The next county? It's also been noted that within this two block district there are already strip clubs, bars and hotels. Are they not "disrespectful," as well? There are also already some 300+ plus mosques in New York City where many law abiding, American Muslims seem to uneventfully worship without fear of persecution.

    I guess what I'm saying is that…is this *really* about insensitivity or, rather, xenophobia and religous bigotry hiding behind a host of other issues?

    I'm just curious as to what others feel?

    • Part of the landing gear from United 175 crashed through the roof of the building now on the site. That is why it became unusable and had to be sold in the first place. This means the site is part of Ground Zero itself, not "two blocks away".

  10. Mosq in 9/11 area is an insult as much as building any Mosq in a western world.
    Why don't we follow Switzerland example and ban mosqs ?
    How many chuches are in Saudi Arabia? Zero!!!!!!

    • So what…. you want to be like Saudi Arabia and ban other points of view???? Switzerland didn't ban mosques by the way… they banned the building of Minarets, the towers you see on classic mosques… get your facts right!

  11. Phobia is an irrational fear of something. Since 9/11 happened in the name of Islam. Islam has a thing called Jihad. Islam stones people to death. Afghanistan has it in it's constitution that anyone leaves Islam should be killed. It is against the law to build a church in Saudi Arabia. Islam is more a political ideology than a religion, since we have the Islamic republic of Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran and etc… We should all have a rational fear of Islam.

    • If that is the case, we should all have a rational fear of all religion…. Christianity has killed millions in the name of God… or actually we should be scared of all religious people… because its us that interpret what we think God wants…. leave it to a bunch of ignorant chimps to think they know what an all knowing, all powerful God wants. Religion was made to control the masses by a small group of people in power trying to keep power…. Keep your fairy-tails.