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Ignore your problems, and they just might go away


 

“If there are any economists in the room, you’re no good,” Monique Jérôme-Forget told an in camera press conference on provincial budget day. “You change your minds every month.”

With that, Quebec’s finance minister apparently believed she could justify the dodgy numbers her own budget contains:

The projected deficit for the upcoming year will be about $3.9 billion. How do you get to that figure? First, take the $2.5 billion bite the government says the recession will take out of government revenues. That leaves you with $1.4 billion left to account for. Now add the $826 million in stimulus measures the government says it has included in this unique, “recessionary” budget. And, just to be generous, top it off with the $75 million the government says Ottawa cheated Quebec out of by changing the equalization formula midway. After all that, you’re still left with a $500 million hole.

The plan to dig the province out from the swamp of red ink it finds itself in is just as murky. Sure, they’ll hike the PST by 1%; that’ll good for about $1.2 billion a year. And the government will index user fees for services, meaning the relative cost of those services won’t increase with inflation (unlike the $7 a day daycare program, which won’t be indexed). Next—and this is a big assumption but let’s give Jérome-Forget the benefit of the doubt—assume the $826 million in stimulus spending that’s included in this budget is pulled from future ones and that none of the stimulus spending added fixed costs to future budgets like, say, maintenance on all those infrastructure projects. That still leaves you with a $1 billion deficit. (Hey, maybe the forestry and manufacturing sectors will make some miraculous recovery and the whole $2.5 billion in revenue that vanished because of the recession will come back. Who wouldn’t bet on that?)

If history is any indication, some form of Charest fatigue will set in over the next 24-36 months—perhaps even earlier—and the PQ will be left to deal with the economic mess. Thankfully, they’ve already got a plan that’s almost as good the Liberals’: Blame the feds.

So, the big news from yesterday: Quebec is running deficits and it’s the economists/federal government’s fault. Plus ça change…


 

Ignore your problems, and they just might go away

  1. Quebecers sure waste a lot of energy lying to each other all the time. It’s too bad the Charest government has permanently blurred the distinction between fiction and reality, though I suppose the PQ and (cough) ADQ are even worse when it comes to telling the truth.

    Maybe the culture of deception evolved in response to overly indulgent Canadian federalism. When the merde hits the fan, one can always blame Canada.

    • Can, and surely will. After all it’s easier than thinking!

  2. Good article and good work!

  3. Just so we’re clear, Quebec has been in deficit for a few year now. They just use accounting tricks to hide it, right?

    • Just so we’re clear – Quebec has been in deficit since the Parti Quebecois came into power. The Liberals managed to decrease the massive deficit a bit, because many people believed the stringent anti anglo sentiment would ease up and began investing in the Province again.
      Quebec was once the richest province in the country. During the PQ “reign” it became the poorest – even beating Newfoundland’s record.

      Even though I am not a fan of the Liberals – or any Quebec Party (they all agree with cleaning English out of the Province) I find it amusing that Pauline Marios and her chums are criticizing the Liberals for a deficit in this worldwide financial crisis. After all the PQ had put Quebec into a financial “free fall” during the best of times.

  4. Monique Forget was probably right about the economists. But that would include the ones who no doubt helped her come up with her budget.

  5. I doubt Quebec is the only Province that’s going to show a deficit so are the others going to blame the Federalists too?

    By the way, when is the rest of Canada going to protest the removal of rights, the English language and ethnic cleansing going on in Quebec ?

    There are over 2 MILLION English speaking Quebeckers in the Greater Montreal area and the rest of Canada behaves like we all disappeared with the enactment of the illegal language laws. Why have you (and continue to) allowed this removal of rights (that every other Canadian has) language and culture?
    Why are you allowing us to be starved out of the workforce, see our schools – institutions – media etc… being systematically erased and yet say nothing?

    Who will be there for you when it reaches your doorstep?

    If you don’t stand up for what’s right – what do you stand for?

    • 2 millions? in Montréal? You must mean 2 millions Anglophones and Allophones.

      Since when insisting that you learn the language of the majority in a province ethnic cleansing? If you can come here in Manitoba where the law in past was that you not learn French ( or Ukrainian or Polish…) because the powers that be wanted Manitoba to be a British Province and argue against that then i will support you to a point. By the way the law and practice here insist that you learn your English and you learn it well. You can not tell us that learning French in Québec is an imposition any more than learning English in Manitoba is an imposition.

      • MB, you are completely uninformed. Didi is not talking about anglophones and allophones in Quebec learning French (almost all of them know french).
        She is talking about:
        -anglos and allos being forced to send their children to French schools (not English schools and not bilingual schools, but french schools)
        -anglos and allos being forbidden from putting their native language on signs
        -anglos and allos being forbidden from speaking their native language at work
        -anglos and allos being shut out of the job market
        -these various laws causing anglophone institutions to disappear

        • SF,

          You should learn to separate myth from fact when posting about Quebec.

          Fact: most anglos can send their children to English school.

          Fact: you can put signs with English on them if you want. French as to be predominent, but this doesn’t mean you cannot put English on your signs.

          Fact: the law doesn’t forbid people to speak English at work. It simply states that the client has a right to be served in French.

          Anglos who find no job are usually the one who are unwilling to learn French. How are my chance to find a job in Toronto or in Regina if I don’t speak English?

          You seem to apply a “one weight two measures” to the whole issue.

          • SF:

            Fact – yes most anglos can send their children to English school, but they have to prove that they went to English school. Any English speaking immigrant CANNOT send their child to English school and are FORCED into the French stream. If their children have difficulty adapting to the French language that is just too bloody bad. I’ve lost count of the number of children who have suffered incredible damage because they’ve lost the appeals to go to English schools. Yet when one reads the laws – they state if a child is having difficulty the parents can ask for an exception. But they have to go through unbelievable hoops to prove it – and the process often takes years and years. In the interim, the child is often bullied not only by the children – but often by the teachers as well. It has forced many parents to put their children in private schools. The ones who can afford it that is… the others have to suffer. Some cases at this moment are being fought up to the Supreme court and the United Nations has even declared that the laws are discriminatory. The final FACT: is that over 90% (ninety) of English schools (and hospitals) have CLOSED – with another 3 being threatened with closure today!! There are ‘perhaps’ 15 English (and by English – it oftentimes means immersion schools where half the curriculum is in French) left – to accommodate 2,000,000 people. A comparison one can consider is: In Ontario – with a French population of around 200,000 they have 600 French schools!

            FACT: With the signs. Yes the law says that French must be predominant – but Billboards and outdoor signs are to be French only. And the language cops have done enough “boot stepping” with retailers – to intimidate most into French only signs!! Any Quebecer (almost always some separatist) can go to the “Office de La Langues Francais and make a complaint and the language cops run in with their measuring sticks. Even though the laws say ‘prominent’ the few who do dare put up bilingual signs indoors – make the English signs one third the size of French. I suggest you come and take a look and see for yourself. Hell even our road signs – be it a hazard or whatever are in French only!!!!!

            FACT: There is a law that is dedicated to the Francization of the entire workforce in Quebec!!!! I believe it’s 104… and it has been legislated LEGAL in Quebec. Not only that – it is fully endorsed and promoted by the government!! Again, ‘ethnic cleansing’ at its best!

            As for Anglos who don’t speak French with no jobs is NOT the problem. In most cases it doesn’t matter how bilingual an anglo is – they are just NOT going to be hired! And if they are they can forget about management positions.
            FACT: Number of Anglos working at Hydro Quebec: Probably less than 1%.
            FACT: Number of anglos working for the Provincial government: and I’m talking fluently bilingual here – less than 2%.
            FACT: number of Anglos working for ANY French institution, media outlet- major corporation – probably less than 2%.
            FACT: Even the English Montreal Gazette demands fluency in both languages – so they are not harassed by the language cops. Mind you it may just be a management decision – given ALL their Upper management is Francophone! Guess they can’t find ONE Anglo in the Province to do the job and that’s with an English paper.
            FACT: Number of anglos working for French hospitals – Less than 2% etc…etc… etc…. The list is too long to go on.

            So stop with the unwilling to learn French garbage.. and using Toronto or Regina as an example. Toronto and Regina are NOT CLEANSING FRENCH OUT of the Province. Quite the contrary.
            Quebec is cleansing English out of the province.. ethnic cleansing – big time and it’s been going on for decades!!

          • FXR, I’m from Quebec so I know what the rules and I know how to speak French, and one other thing I know is that those facts that you have listed are abominations, they are disgraceful, all of them are an affront to human rights and dignity.

            I don’t care if most anglos fulfill the criteria of bureaucrats whether or not they are allowed to choose the school of their choice, there should be no restrictions on anyone, just the fact that there are any rules at all is a disgrace, and the fact that you don’t give a hoot about the ones that have been denied the freedom to make their own choice is also a disgrace.

            The fact that you think these rules are fine, that exactly what I am talking about. They are not.

          • I don’t know who you are but you are way off base. Sure you can send your children to English school but you have to prove you went to English school in Que. I know I am from Quebec. As far as signs on businesses they must be in French. The only bilingual signs are from the province and even then they are few and far between. My parents owned a business and they had to have it in French only. Growing up if you applied for a job that was bilingual and you were English, they hired someone Francophone who couldn’t speak English. I can attest to this because I was there. I also know for a fact that my mother-in-law was taken to court by her landlord and she couldn’t speak French being from Ontario. The whole case in court was done in French only and she couldn’t understand a word. How would you like to live like that and it has only gotten worse.

      • Yes 2,000,000 English speaking people is what I said. And I believe you know very well what I’m talking about. The “ethnic cleansing” of the English language and culture in Quebec cannot be denied – and has absolutely nothing to do with learning French. And frankly I don’t give a flying leap what the law was in
        Manitoba IN THE PAST. I live in the NOW not back in the 1800’s or whatever the date was or law was.
        And I doubt there is a LAW in Manitoba that states you MUST learn English and learn it well as you say. I’m assuming that the law says you must learn or – should learn one of the official languages of Canada.

        In any event I never said learning French was an imposition – so don’t put foolish words into my mouth.
        I’m talking about the facts here – about being denied our language – our rights – our ability to make a living – about blatant anti anglo discrimination in the province of Quebec – and the denial of our rights that every other Canadian enjoys. In case you didn’t know it – English used to be one of the official languages in Quebec and that was removed with the stroke of a pen to please the politicians.
        Over 600,000 Quebeckers felt FORCED to flee the Province and no one said a “peep”.
        And the discrimination continues big time.

        Like I said: Who will be there when it reaches your doorstep?

        • I’m curious where you get yours facts… 2 000 000 anglos? That would mean that more than 25% of the population in Quebec is anglophone.

          According to the numbers provided by the federal governement, there was 919 000 people who declared themselves “anglophones” during the last survey.

          The 600 000 anglos who left, did so for various reasons (economic reasons being the main reason). Nobody was forced to leave. Maybe a few of them felt like it, because they couldn’t accept that society was changing and that they now had to share power with people they usually saw as inferior to them.

          You might not believe it, but most anglos in Quebec are ok with the current law 101. That’s why the Equality party never managed to elect a single MP past 1988, even in ridings where anglophones form a majority.

          • No, most anglos are not OK with the law, they are willing to ignore it or live with it, but there is nothing that they like about it.

            And no, economics was not the main reason those anglos left, if you think that you’ve truly lost it.

        • French was the one of the official languages of Manitoba when it became a province in 1870 and by “stroke of a pen” it was abolished. After many years where learning one numbers in French could caused your to lose her licence to teach and you had to hide your Canadian made French textbooks every time the school inspector made his visits, after enduring numerous insults and disenfranchisements we Canucks (Read French speaking Canadians) we have most but all our rights back and Manitoba is partially a bilingual province. I would state what has and is happening in Quebec is in part the result of what had happened in Manitoba. What goes around, comes around .

          • MB,

            Tell me, were you there in 1870 to witness hiding ones French textbooks? And I guess what happened then has taught you nothing except to enjoy seeing the ethnic cleansing of the anglos in Quebec as revenge??

            Good Grief!

  6. To fxr:
    You said “I’m curious where you get yours facts… 2 000 000 anglos? That would mean that more than 25% of the population in Quebec is anglophone.”

    My reply: I said English speaking. And yes more than 25% of the province is English speaking.

    You said: “According to the numbers provided by the federal governement, there was 919 000 people who declared themselves “anglophones” during the last survey.”

    My reply: Yes the fed’s counted 919,000 anglophones during the last survey. An “anglophone” is someone who is of “English heritage” – so they are counted as “anglophones” That number does NOT include the “allophones” who speak English as their First or second language (excluding French as either language – ie: Morroco or Nigeria etc..) . For instance German, Italian etc… immigrants who were not allowed into the French school system when they immigrated to Canada/Quebec and adopted English as their language.

    You said: “The 600 000 anglos who left, did so for various reasons (economic reasons being the main reason). Nobody was forced to leave. Maybe a few of them felt like it, because they couldn’t accept that society was changing and that they now had to share power with people they usually saw as inferior to them.”

    My reply: The VAST majority of the 600,000 you “claim” left for “various reason” left because of the discriminatory language laws.. period and for no other reason. They felt FORCED to leave because of the blatant – anti anglo sentiment in the Province fueled by the Parti Quebecois. And don’t spout that bull that they ‘had to share power’ with people they saw as inferior” That’s a full of it MYTH that has been perpetuated and promoted by people like you! The FACTS are: Francophones have ALWAYS been in Power in Quebec!! All Premiers (except one back in God knows when) have been Francophone! All Mayors – except for one or two have ALWAYS been French! The entire Province except Western Montreal and a couple of pockets on the South Shore – have always been Unilingual French!!! So what the hell are you talking about?

    You said: “You might not believe it, but most anglos in Quebec are ok with the current law 101. That’s why the Equality party never managed to elect a single MP past 1988, even in ridings where anglophones form a majority.”

    My reply: You know you lie when you say most anglos are ok with the current Bill 101. The over 20,000
    who demonstrated in the streets of Montreal at the time are a testament that they were (and are) totally against a law that wipes their language and culture off the map! As for the Equality Party not electing an MP past 1988 – Given the media was instructed NOT to run ONE positive story about the Party and they were labeled “anglo extremists” (as was anyone who dared speak out against it) for daring to suggest Bilingualism in the Greater Montreal area… not all of Quebec… just the Greater Montreal area where the English speaking population lived – was promoted as anti French etc… The language cops invading English companies – and the St. jean The baptist Society and the FLQ… threatening to put more bombs into mailboxes – created an atmosphere of FEAR and intimidation that hadn’t been seen in the free world since the Gestapo – boot stepped its way across Germany!

    By the way at that time (before the mass anglo exodus of 600,000) the population of the English speaking community in the Province was around 3,200,000. That was around 45%. After the migration that left approx: 2,600,000 non francophones in the Province. Therefore the 2,000,000 number I post is perhaps substantially smaller than the actual numbers.

    And yet – the government of Canada and Quebec has chosen to deny these citizens their langauge, cultural rights to live and work in one of Canada’s official languages! It’s ethnic cleansing and it’s legal and promoted in Canada and Quebec.

    • Of course, you never mentionned your sources. Your numbers and accusations are based on myth.

      According to the provincial governement “anglophones” refer to people whose mother tongue is English. These people may or may not be of English ancestry. Just like a French speaker may or may not be of French ancestry.

      You keep mixing stuff. For instance, you now claim the so-called exodus happened after the PQ took power (1976) and enacted Bill 101 (1977). However, it started in 1971, which is at a time where the PQ had elected… six MPs.

      You claim that anglophones cannot work in their language. Once again, this is false on both economic and legal levels (except for professions enshrined in the Code of professions which only state that you must be able to speak French, not work in it) If it was true, the level of unemployment for anglophones would be higher than the average, which isn’t the case.

      You are right in saying that a unilingual English has a hard time finding a job. But so does a unilingual French speaker in Toronto, or a Swahili speaker in… every city in Canada.

      Your claim about a media conspiracy is completely lucridious and denied by all evidence.

      It is funny you seek some sort of golden age when clerks didn’t have the right to serve their clients in French (which was the case with the Hudson Bay Company prior the 1970s) or where the Francophones were deemed “not intelligent enought” to hold positions of power in companies.

      The fact is that Quebec is not a bilingual province. It is the sole French-speaking province in Canada. That doesn’t mean that anglos should be deprived of rights, but there must be a balance betwen the needs of the majority – who are in a peculiar and rather unique situation – and the need of the minority. Bill 101 strikes me as an acceptable compromise.

      If there was no Bill 101, Quebec would have became a big New Brunswick… a place where francophones have no real power, cannot work in French except in small enclaves, etc.

      • The level of unemployment of anglos IS higher.

        No, the exodus did not happen in 1971.

        You are wrong.

        “there must be a balance betwen the needs of the majority – who are in a peculiar and rather unique situation – and the need of the minority”

        There is never, and I say never, any reason why human rights should be denied. The freedom of people should be curtailed for the cultural sensitivities of others. And the tyranny of the majority is no reason to deny basic human rights.

  7. To fxr:

    My sources are the census numbers at the times I mentioned. And you know very well the “myth” are all yours. But why don’t you prove me wrong? Let’s see what happens.

    You said: “According to the provincial governement “anglophones” refer to people whose mother tongue is English. These people may or may not be of English ancestry. Just like a French speaker may or may not be of French ancestry.”

    My reply: So what is your point?

    You said: “You keep mixing stuff. For instance, you now claim the so-called exodus happened after the PQ took power (1976) and enacted Bill 101 (1977). However, it started in 1971, which is at a time where the PQ had elected… six MPs.”

    My reply: That is when the “exodus started” Many hung around hoping the ridiculous anti English sentiment was something that would end! Instead it increased – and they felt FORCED to FLEE their homes – history – family and everything they loved about the Province they grew up in. It’s not easy to feel like a refugee in your own country and province that you and your ancestors helped build. And 600,000 people leaving takes time. Mind you, I believe it must be the first time in free world history that such a MASS migration happened in such a SHORT period of time – without having guns pointed at their heads. Must make you proud to be a Quebecois non?

    You said: “You claim that anglophones cannot work in their language. Once again, this is false on both economic and legal levels (except for professions enshrined in the Code of professions which only state that you must be able to speak French, not work in it) If it was true, the level of unemployment for anglophones would be higher than the average, which isn’t the case.”

    My reply: I imagine in the paragraph above re: anglos not being able to work in their own language, you are talking about the place where I said: The language cops invading English companies – and the St. jean The baptist Society and the FLQ… threatening to put more bombs into mailboxes – created an atmosphere of FEAR and intimidation that hadn’t been seen in the free world since the Gestapo – boot stepped its way across Germany! Right? If not please explain. As for the anglophone unemployment demographics – well mon ami, you’d better recheck your sources. The anglophone unemployment and welfare and food bank demographics are higher than they’ve ever been and those demographics began only after the language laws came into effect!!! Like I mentioned in another post, just take a look at the number of BILINGUAL Anglo employed in Quebec’s government offices and all the other offices I mentioned. And just because the Laws say there should be no discrimination certainly DOES NOT mean the law is being upheld in Quebec. Quite the contrary!!

    You said: “You are right in saying that a unilingual English has a hard time finding a job. But so does a unilingual French speaker in Toronto, or a Swahili speaker in… every city in Canada.”

    My reply: I said a BILINGUAL Anglo has a hard time finding a job. And I don’t give a flying leap about your Toronto comparison. It is a useless one. I’m talking about Quebec where the non francophone population is over 2,000,000 in the Greater Montreal area. So to compare it with Ontario – where there are NO language laws – no language cops harassing employers or the public. And tell me, why is it OK to be a unilingual Franco in Quebec but NOT OK to be a unilingual Anglo? After all we still have the numbers – much to your chagrin!

    You said: Your claim about a media conspiracy is completely lucridious and denied by all evidence.”

    My reply: And what evidence is that? Do you mean the media decrying the “Anglo extremists” who dared ask for a BILINGUAL Montreal? Do you mean the national media – only inviting Francophone & Separatist commentators to speak for Quebec. Do you mean the media (The Gazette included when Joan Frasier was Editor) writing a ‘couple of thousand demonstrators protesting the language laws” when in fact there were tens of thousands? Do you mean even today…. the media is hard pressed to invite an Anglo commentator or journalist to comment on la belle province? When before the mess started, there were plenty of anglo (bilingual ones) journalists who were regular commentators on CTV etc… Where the hell did they all go all of a sudden! And yes I do know of what I speak. I KNOW for A FACT… that CFCF reporters had been told very clearly that NO positive stories were to be aired about the Equality Party.

    You said: “It is funny you seek some sort of golden age when clerks didn’t have the right to serve their clients in French (which was the case with the Hudson Bay Company prior the 1970s) or where the Francophones were deemed “not intelligent enought” to hold positions of power in companies.”

    My reply: Ah yes… I’ve been waiting for the worn out Eaton’s saleslady and Hudson’s Bay clerk who managed somehow to insult every Francophone in the Province! I’m surprised you didn’t include the “Speak white” MYTH that they also supposedly used. I happened to work on the corner of Peel and St. Catherine Streets at the time…. and know for a FACT that that claim is a complete LIE. And retailers of any kind were not stupid. Enough said about that piece of idiocy! As for your “deemed not intelligent enough MYTH… The President of the Royal Bank back in the 1930’s was a Francophone! And the other positions of power you speak of … were the OWNERS and developers of those companies – who used their blood sweat and tears to build their companies, with their OWN money to a size that was big enough to create massive employment (jobs for ALL Quebecers).. where there had been NONE. So you resent them for speaking their own language?? You forget English was NOT illegal at that time! Not only that mon ami, but the only English enclave was the Montreal (and only West of Bleury Street).
    and whether you like it or not they had and have a right to be there. You fail to mention the ENTIRE rest of the Province was French only. Now there may have been an English owner here and there outside Montreal, who dealt with the rest of Canada and the world and needed their management to also speak English in order to stay in business and keep their unilingual French staff employed. And you call that denying Francophones positions of power??? What utter bigoted nonsense!

    You said: “The fact is that Quebec is not a bilingual province. It is the sole French-speaking province in Canada. That doesn’t mean that anglos should be deprived of rights, but there must be a balance betwen the needs of the majority – who are in a peculiar and rather unique situation – and the need of the minority. Bill 101 strikes me as an acceptable compromise.”

    My reply: It sure isn’t a bilingual province ANYMORE! That was and is being ethnically CLEANSED right out of the province. You have done to anglo quebecers what you scream about the fear of being done to you which it NEVER was!! You claim you are in a peculiar and unique situation and there must be a “balance”. The French language has FLOURISHED across the country with anglophones blessings! It was embraced by ALL non Francophones in the Province – even in spite of their children NOT being allowed into French schools until the early 70’s, because the French Catholic school system didn’t want those ‘anglo devils’ in their schools. So the anglos and immigrants were FORCED to learn the language on their own. And they DID. They embraced it and the culture and were proud to speak both languages. Je me souviens mon ami. Quebec once was the best place to live… where all cultures felt welcome. And that you find Bill 101 an acceptable compromise… is not surprising. After all you language and culture is not being erased. So what’s your point?

    You said: “If there was no Bill 101, Quebec would have became a big New Brunswick… a place where francophones have no real power, cannot work in French except in small enclaves, etc.”

    My reply: That is a big pile of horses…..t. New Brunswick is the ONLY true bilingual province and the small enclaves you speak of … does that include Moncton per chance? And don’t tell me francophones have no power in New Brunswick. That’s another total LIE! Go take a look at the last names of NB CEO’s, Provincial leaders, management etc….. By the way, you don’t even allow the small enclave of Montreal (a wee enclave given the vastness of la belle province) to be Bilingual… again with an English speaking population far greater than New Brunswick! So again… what’s your point? Still trying to justify the ethnic cleansing in Quebec?

    • quote: So what is your point?

      Well that your numbers are dubious. You include into a large package two distinct realties: allophones and anglophones. 2 000 000 is 25% of the population of Quebec, and around 66% of the population of the Greater Montreal Area. These numbers are not compatible with reality, unless you use a completely different definition of “allophone” than the one you mentionned earlier.

      You said: That is when the “exodus started” Many hung around hoping the ridiculous anti English sentiment was something that would end! I

      Well, they waited a long time! The first language laws were enacted in the 1960s!

      I’m also curious that the fact that there was a recession going on never apperared to you as a factor justifying this so-called exodus.

      you said: and they felt FORCED to FLEE their homes – history – family and everything they loved about the Province they grew up in. It’s not easy to feel like a refugee in your own country and province that you and your ancestors helped build. And 600,000 people leaving takes time. Mind you, I believe it must be the first time in free world history that such a MASS migration happened in such a SHORT period of time – without having guns pointed at their heads. Must make you proud to be a Quebecois non?

      Don’t use capital letters, it look like you scream, which is plainly idiotic.

      Actually it wasn’t the first time we saw a populatione exchange: see Turkey and Greece in the 19th century and India and Pakistan in the early 1950s. But I’ll admit it was the first that was completely bloodless. The same could be said of the large number of Black Americans who left the South for the North in the 1930-1940s.

      You said: I imagine in the paragraph above re: anglos not being able to work in their own language, you are talking about the place where I said: The language cops invading English companies – and the St. jean The baptist Society and the FLQ… threatening to put more bombs into mailboxes – created an atmosphere of FEAR and intimidation that hadn’t been seen in the free world since the Gestapo – boot stepped its way across Germany!

      The St-Jean Baptiste Society, which has been around for several decades before the PQ came to power, never put a single bomb anywhere. You must confuse it was some other movement, unless you are simply slandering.

      Comparing the Gestapo to these organization is desingenious to say the least. When you, like me, will have visit a real concentration camp in Europe, you won’t make silly analogies such as Gestapo/Nazi = PQ or whatever political party suits your fancy.

      Also, I guess you weren’t in “the Free World” back then to say such a thing. McCarthysm in the USA in 1950, October Crisis where plenty of people got illegally arrested, troubles in Ireland, the war in Algeria (a French colony back then), racial incidents in the USA in the 1960s, terrorism in Germany and Italy, etc..

      You said: Right? If not please explain. As for the anglophone unemployment demographics – well mon ami, you’d better recheck your sources. The anglophone unemployment and welfare and food bank demographics are higher than they’ve ever been and those demographics began only after the language laws came into effect!!!

      Sophism. The first videogames came just after the language laws, so i guess language laws created videogames!

      You said: Like I mentioned in another post, just take a look at the number of BILINGUAL Anglo employed in Quebec’s government offices and all the other offices I mentioned. And just because the Laws say there should be no discrimination certainly DOES NOT mean the law is being upheld in Quebec. Quite the contrary!!

      So far, this has been your most reasoned argument. While I’m wary to cry “racism” at every second. I acknowledge that the Governement has to find out the reasons explaining that phenomom and adress it.

      This has nothing to do with language laws, but I have no qualm with the Quebec governement hiring more bilingual anglophones.

      You said: So to compare it with Ontario – where there are NO language laws – no language cops harassing employers or the public. And tell me, why is it OK to be a unilingual Franco in Quebec but NOT OK to be a unilingual Anglo?

      I say: Because Quebec is a francophone province. Just like the same it is OK to be a unilingual English speaker in Alberta.

      BTW, there are rules regarding languages in Ontario. A friend of yours, Howard Galganov, is actually campaigning there to make sure a certain city doesn’t declare bilingual signs mandatory.

      You said: After all we still have the numbers – much to your chagrin!

      I say: WTF? What do you know about my personnal opinions?

      Your reply`: And what evidence is that? Do you mean the media decrying the “Anglo extremists” who dared ask for a BILINGUAL Montreal? Do you mean the national media – only inviting Francophone & Separatist commentators to speak for Quebec.

      My reply: Which media decried them? The Gazette? La Presse? Not agreeing with their position is not a crime as far as I know. Also, Chantal Hébert, Liza Frulla and André Pratte are not know as separatists and speak on a wide variety of tribunes. I could name more, but you should be able to recognize these names.

      you write: Do you mean the media (The Gazette included when Joan Frasier was Editor) writing a ‘couple of thousand demonstrators protesting the language laws” when in fact there were tens of thousands?

      my reply: so the Gazette is now a cypto-sovereignist newspaper? wtf?

      You said: Do you mean even today…. the media is hard pressed to invite an Anglo commentator or journalist to comment on la belle province?

      I say: there’s at least two per week on Radio Canada’s 95.1 FM, including the editor of The Gazette. Julius Grey was often invited on TV and had a colum in the Journal de Montréal (before the lock-out). Every week, there is a review of the English Canadian Press in Le Devoir. I could go on and on.

      You say: When before the mess started, there were plenty of anglo (bilingual ones) journalists who were regular commentators on CTV etc…

      I say: As far as I know, there are plenty of anglophones who still work in CBC’s Montreal Office.

      You said: Where the hell did they all go all of a sudden!

      I say: Mostly to Toronto. Most of the big TV newschannel have concentrated on one big office and let the rest rot. The same can be said of french-speaking channels.

      You say: And yes I do know of what I speak. I KNOW for A FACT… that CFCF reporters had been told very clearly that NO positive stories were to be aired about the Equality Party.

      I say: I await your source.

      Your reply: Ah yes… I’ve been waiting for the worn out Eaton’s saleslady and Hudson’s Bay clerk who managed somehow to insult every Francophone in the Province! I’m surprised you didn’t include the “Speak white” MYTH that they also supposedly used. I happened to work on the corner of Peel and St. Catherine Streets at the time….

      At the time being when? In the 1960s-early 1970s? The speak white “mth” has been fairly documented. See wikipedia.

      and know for a FACT that that claim is a complete LIE. And retailers of any kind were not stupid. Enough said about that piece of idiocy! As for your “deemed not intelligent enough MYTH…

      This is exactly what the CNR CEO said in the 1950s.

      The President of the Royal Bank back in the 1930’s was a Francophone! And the other positions of power you speak of … were the OWNERS and developers of those companies – who used their blood sweat and tears to build their companies, with their OWN money to a size that was big enough to create massive employment (jobs for ALL Quebecers).. where there had been NONE. So you resent them for speaking their own language?? You forget English was NOT illegal at that time! Not only that mon ami, but the only English enclave was the Montreal (and only West of Bleury Street).

      WTF again? Most francophones were underpaid and there was no social protections at the time.

      As far as the only English enclave: I believe you forgot Gaspésie, which as a sizeable English-speaking community (La Bolduc’s father was an Irish from up there), the Eastern Townships, the Town of Hudson, Morin Heights, the Pontiac area, the Sillery area in Quebec city.

      You say:
      Now there may have been an English owner here and there outside Montreal, who dealt with the rest of Canada and the world and needed their management to also speak English in order to stay in business and keep their unilingual French staff employed.

      I say: You’re shifting the goalposts. Most bosses at the time treated their employees like shit, French-speaking or not (see the Irish). Management was, except in a few cases, only done in English, by people who never did speak a single word of French.

      You say: It sure isn’t a bilingual province ANYMORE!

      I say: It never was.

      You say: The French language has FLOURISHED across the country with anglophones blessings! It was embraced by ALL non Francophones in the Province – even in spite of their children NOT being allowed into French schools until the early 70’s, because the French Catholic school system didn’t want those ‘anglo devils’ in their schools.

      I say: There was no “French Catholic school system”. There was a Catholic school board, which was indeed bigoted. They had nothing against anglos, altought. Their fear were the jews.

      French didn’t fourished at all. Tell that to the Metis population in Manitoba, they’ll slap you in the face. Tell that to the Acadians, who suffered a real deportation (which you likely applaud). The only place where French flourishes is in Quebec and very small parts of Ontario and New Brunswick.

      You say: And they DID. They embraced it and the culture and were proud to speak both languages.

      I say: Non sequitur. Where did I say bilingual anglos were not an asset to our society?

      You say: After all you language and culture is not being erased. So what’s your point?

      I say: Because, precisely of Bill 101.

      You say: New Brunswick is the ONLY true bilingual province and the small enclaves you speak of … does that include Moncton per chance?

      Moncton is not a french-speaking city.

      You say: By the way, you don’t even allow the small enclave of Montreal (a wee enclave given the vastness of la belle province) to be Bilingual… again with an English speaking population far greater than New Brunswick! So again… what’s your point? Still trying to justify the ethnic cleansing in Quebec?

      I say: Montreal? a wee enclave? It’s the largest city in Quebec! BTW, the population is smaller than the whole of NB btw.

      There’s no ethnic cleansing in Quebec and never has been. When you’ll dig up some mass graves, tell me about it. Ask the Bosniaks which they would prefer: bill 101 or what they suffered? Ask the Indians here? Residential schools or Bill 101?

      This is my last message on the topic. You are clearly in bad faith. It’s sad. A real meaningful discussion about the rights and place of anglo-quebeckers in Quebec would have been very interesting, but your numbers and arguments come from dubious sources (a certain lobby which has risen from the ashes of Alliance Quebec). This is as stupid as a Sovereignist who based its arguments on Rhéaume’s website.

      BTW, don’t assume my political orientations and don’t claim you represent federalists at large. You clearly don’t.

      • To fxr:

        You said: “Well that your numbers are dubious. You include into a large package two distinct realties: allophones and anglophones. 2 000 000 is 25% of the population of Quebec, and around 66% of the population of the Greater Montreal Area. These numbers are not compatible with reality, unless you use a completely different definition of “allophone” than the one you mentionned earlier.”

        My reply: My numbers are dubious to YOU. That doesn’t make them wrong. (And by the way – I AM shouting – because you seem to have a real problem hearing.) As for the 25% … You wrote that percentage – not me. The percentage of anglos/allos – whose first or second language is still far higher than that. As for these numbers not being “… compatible with reality”.. I don’t know what on earth you’re trying to imply here. Again definition of allophones I am referring to is re: language. Go back and read what I wrote – I was discussing the allophones whose mother tongue is/was NOT French. And stop trying to put your words in my mouth.

        Didi had written: That is when the “exodus started” Many hung around hoping the ridiculous anti English sentiment was something that would end! I
        fxr’s reply: Well, they waited a long time! The first language laws were enacted in the 1960s!

        My reply: Again, go back and reread what I said. You obviously have a hard time reading a statement in its entirety. And what IS your point here? That they didn’t leave their homes and families fast enough to suit you?

        fxr said: I’m also curious that the fact that there was a recession going on never apperared to you as a factor justifying this so-called exodus.

        My reply: What recession pray tell. Are you talking about the one that happened AFTER the FLQ bombings, the kidnappings & assassinations and the hate the anglo stuff started? Because, BEFORE the language laws Quebec was the RICHEST province in the country!

        fxr said: you said: and they felt FORCED to FLEE their homes – history – family and everything they loved about the Province they grew up in. It’s not easy to feel like a refugee in your own country and province that you and your ancestors helped build. And 600,000 people leaving takes time. Mind you, I believe it must be the first time in free world history that such a MASS migration happened in such a SHORT period of time – without having guns pointed at their heads. Must make you proud to be a Quebecois non?

        fxr said: Don’t use capital letters, it look like you scream, which is plainly idiotic.

        Actually it wasn’t the first time we saw a populatione exchange: see Turkey and Greece in the 19th century and India and Pakistan in the early 1950s. But I’ll admit it was the first that was completely bloodless. The same could be said of the large number of Black Americans who left the South for the North in the 1930-1940s.

        My reply: I will use CAPITAL letters all I want mon ami. Because I AM screaming at YOUR racist – discriminatory nonsensical excuses for wanting to wipe out English in Quebec.

        You said: I imagine in the paragraph above re: anglos not being able to work in their own language, you are talking about the place where I said: The language cops invading English companies – and the St. jean The baptist Society and the FLQ… threatening to put more bombs into mailboxes – created an atmosphere of FEAR and intimidation that hadn’t been seen in the free world since the Gestapo – boot stepped its way across Germany!

        fxr said: The St-Jean Baptiste Society, which has been around for several decades before the PQ came to power, never put a single bomb anywhere. You must confuse it was some other movement, unless you are simply slandering.

        Comparing the Gestapo to these organization is desingenious to say the least. When you, like me, will have visit a real concentration camp in Europe, you won’t make silly analogies such as Gestapo/Nazi = PQ or whatever political party suits your fancy.

        My reply: Again go back and read what I said. I included the St. jean the Baptist society because what was once an inclusive society that ALL Quebeckers celebrated became a mouth piece of anti anglo sentiment, right in tune with the FLQ. Anglos used to be part of the St. John the Baptist Society. I doubt you’ll find one now!
        And how arrogant are you to assume that I or anyone else for that matter is not familiar with the concentration camps, the Gestapo and Nazis? It is BECAUSE I AM much more familiar with it than YOU you TWIT that I CAN make the comparison!! You condescending fool!

        fxr said: Also, I guess you weren’t in “the Free World” back then to say such a thing. McCarthysm in the USA in 1950, October Crisis where plenty of people got illegally arrested, troubles in Ireland, the war in Algeria (a French colony back then), racial incidents in the USA in the 1960s, terrorism in Germany and Italy, etc..

        My reply: What the hell does McCarthyism have to do with the subject matter? As for illegal arrests during the October crisis – well if that’s the best you can come up with it’s pretty weak.. After all it was a small inconvenience to endure – to try and end the bombings and kidnappings the FLQ was foisting on the population. You know exactly what I mean by “The Free World” and your examples above are
        stupid.

        fxr said: You said: Right? If not please explain. As for the anglophone unemployment demographics – well mon ami, you’d better recheck your sources. The anglophone unemployment and welfare and food bank demographics are higher than they’ve ever been and those demographics began only after the language laws came into effect!!!

        Sophism. The first videogames came just after the language laws, so i guess language laws created videogames!

        My reply: Is that the best you can come up with? My God!

        fxr said: You said: Like I mentioned in another post, just take a look at the number of BILINGUAL Anglo employed in Quebec’s government offices and all the other offices I mentioned. And just because the Laws say there should be no discrimination certainly DOES NOT mean the law is being upheld in Quebec. Quite the contrary!!

        So far, this has been your most reasoned argument. While I’m wary to cry “racism” at every second. I acknowledge that the Governement has to find out the reasons explaining that phenomom and adress it.

        My reply: The Government KNOWS the reason. Discrimination against anglophones is encouraged BY the Government.

        fxr said: This has nothing to do with language laws, but I have no qualm with the Quebec governement hiring more bilingual anglophones.

        My reply: Aw gee. How nice of you.

        fxr said: You said: So to compare it with Ontario – where there are NO language laws – no language cops harassing employers or the public. And tell me, why is it OK to be a unilingual Franco in Quebec but NOT OK to be a unilingual Anglo?

        I say: Because Quebec is a francophone province. Just like the same it is OK to be a unilingual English speaker in Alberta.

        My reply: So you are saying it is NOT okay to be a unilingual anglo in Quebec right? Point made!

        fxr said: BTW, there are rules regarding languages in Ontario. A friend of yours, Howard Galganov, is actually campaigning there to make sure a certain city doesn’t declare bilingual signs mandatory.

        My reply: And what is your problem with that? After all Quebec doesn’t declare bilingual signs mandatory! Your point is…?

        fxr said: You said: After all we still have the numbers – much to your chagrin!

        I say: WTF? What do you know about my personnal opinions?

        My reply: I know your personal opinions by what you have written here, by trying to denounce the numbers. Geeez.

        fxr said: Your reply`: And what evidence is that? Do you mean the media decrying the “Anglo extremists” who dared ask for a BILINGUAL Montreal? Do you mean the national media – only inviting Francophone & Separatist commentators to speak for Quebec.

        fxr said: : Which media decried them? The Gazette? La Presse? Not agreeing with their position is not a crime as far as I know. Also, Chantal Hébert, Liza Frulla and André Pratte are not know as separatists and speak on a wide variety of tribunes. I could name more, but you should be able to recognize these names.

        My reply: Yes but they are ALL Francophones… some with very pro separatist leanings. And they ALL agree with the discriminatory language laws! Like I said – how come the English media never invites an anglophone – or allophone Quebecer to comment – or God Forbid – invite one who has spoken up against the language laws (Tommy Schnumacher notwithstanding – who became famous because of his anti language law stance – but has now mellowed because he wants to keep his job at CJAD- the only English talk show station LEFT!)

        fxr said: you write: Do you mean the media (The Gazette included when Joan Frasier was Editor) writing a ‘couple of thousand demonstrators protesting the language laws” when in fact there were tens of thousands?

        fxr reply: so the Gazette is now a cypto-sovereignist newspaper? wtf?

        My reply: “cypto-sovereignist” ?????? Go re-read what I said. wtf??? Do you have a problem with comprehension?

        fxr said: You said: Do you mean even today…. the media is hard pressed to invite an Anglo commentator or journalist to comment on la belle province?

        fxr said: : there’s at least two per week on Radio Canada’s 95.1 FM, including the editor of The Gazette. Julius Grey was often invited on TV and had a colum in the Journal de Montréal (before the lock-out). Every week, there is a review of the English Canadian Press in Le Devoir. I could go on and on.

        My reply: Well I’ll just have to tune into 95.1 FM to find out. Sure is news to me and I’m sure many others. I stopped listening to Radio Canada because Radio Canada in Montreal is staffed by separatists. As for Julius Grey, good grief – what a piss poor example you use. And any review of the English Canadian Press in Le Devoir – that praises the PQ as much as possible makes my point lol. You could go on and on? Well come on then. Again we’re talking about 2 million English speaking Quebecker representation here. And you can only come up with 2 people! Point made.

        fxr said: You say: When before the mess started, there were plenty of anglo (bilingual ones) journalists who were regular commentators on CTV etc…

        fxr says: As far as I know, there are plenty of anglophones who still work in CBC’s Montreal Office.

        My reply: Really? How come the anglo community doesn’t know them? Or are they the ones washing the floors!!!!

        fxr says: You said: Where the hell did they all go all of a sudden!

        fxr says: Mostly to Toronto. Most of the big TV newschannel have concentrated on one big office and let the rest rot. The same can be said of french-speaking channels.

        My reply: Mostly to Toronto because there were no more JOBS for them here – because they’d been CLEANSED out of the Province! And what on earth are you talking about the same can be said for the french-speaking channels????

        fxr says: You say: And yes I do know of what I speak. I KNOW for A FACT… that CFCF reporters had been told very clearly that NO positive stories were to be aired about the Equality Party.

        fxr says: I await your source.

        My reply: Why should I give YOU my source and compromise their job. Who the hell are you? What are you going to do try and threaten them?

        Your reply: Ah yes… I’ve been waiting for the worn out Eaton’s saleslady and Hudson’s Bay clerk who managed somehow to insult every Francophone in the Province! I’m surprised you didn’t include the “Speak white” MYTH that they also supposedly used. I happened to work on the corner of Peel and St. Catherine Streets at the time….

        fxr said: At the time being when? In the 1960s-early 1970s? The speak white “mth” has been fairly documented. See wikipedia.

        My reply: Wikipedia probably discusses the popular use of the “Speak White” myth that was used by separatists to further their cause against the anglos. Just like the mythical Eatons saleslady that insulted every single francophone Quebecer in the Province. Boy oh boy she was one busy little lady! It’s amazing Eaton’s didn’t fire her – don’t you think – after all the damage she wreaked lol..
        A bit of education for you mon ami. The “Speak White” phrase was developed by the Black Panther Movement in the US!!! It was NEVER used in Quebec … except by Separatists who decided to adopt the phrase and FALSELY claim it was used by anglos against them.

        Part of what Didi said: …and know for a FACT that that claim is a complete LIE. And retailers of any kind were not stupid. Enough said about that piece of idiocy! As for your “deemed not intelligent enough MYTH…

        fxr said: This is exactly what the CNR CEO said in the 1950s.

        My reply: What?????

        The President of the Royal Bank back in the 1930’s was a Francophone! And the other positions of power you speak of … were the OWNERS and developers of those companies – who used their blood sweat and tears to build their companies, with their OWN money to a size that was big enough to create massive employment (jobs for ALL Quebecers).. where there had been NONE. So you resent them for speaking their own language?? You forget English was NOT illegal at that time! Not only that mon ami, but the only English enclave was the Montreal (and only West of Bleury Street).

        fxr said: WTF again? Most francophones were underpaid and there was no social protections at the time.

        My reply: Most uneducated Quebecers were underpaid at the time, including anglos, allos etc… and they had no social protections either. So what’s your point?

        fxr said: As far as the only English enclave: I believe you forgot Gaspésie, which as a sizeable English-speaking community (La Bolduc’s father was an Irish from up there), the Eastern Townships, the Town of Hudson, Morin Heights, the Pontiac area, the Sillery area in Quebec city.

        My reply: You’re talking about tiny little towns here. So your point is moot. Like I said – Montreal the western part and a couple of towns on the south shore that had THE substantial anglo populations. The REST of the VAST Province of Quebec was and is UNILINGUAL French!! So there was never a language problem. Or…. are you saying the fact that there were anglos in the Gaspe etc… that that’s a problem for you?

        fxr says: You say: Now there may have been an English owner here and there outside Montreal, who dealt with the rest of Canada and the world and needed their management to also speak English in order to stay in business and keep their unilingual French staff employed.

        fxr says: You’re shifting the goalposts. Most bosses at the time treated their employees like shit, French-speaking or not (see the Irish). Management was, except in a few cases, only done in English, by people who never did speak a single word of French.

        My reply: Shifting WHAT goalposts? Most bosses at that time – in Montreal offered English courses that THEY paid for to their unilingual francophone staff. I know because I was in the recruitment industry for over a decade back in the mid 60’s to mid 70’s. They offered that so they could get promoted to management – because it was NECESSARY for management to be fluent in English in order to do business with their English customers both in Quebec and outside Quebec! Where I did find constant and total discrimination was with the French employers in the city – who made it loud and clear that they would not even consider hiring a bilingual non francophone!!

        You say: It sure isn’t a bilingual province ANYMORE!

        fxr saysL It never was.

        My reply: Only in YOUR dreams!

        fxr says: You say: The French language has FLOURISHED across the country with anglophones blessings! It was embraced by ALL non Francophones in the Province – even in spite of their children NOT being allowed into French schools until the early 70’s, because the French Catholic school system didn’t want those ‘anglo devils’ in their schools.

        fxr says: There was no “French Catholic school system”. There was a Catholic school board, which was indeed bigoted. They had nothing against anglos, altought. Their fear were the jews.

        French didn’t fourished at all. Tell that to the Metis population in Manitoba, they’ll slap you in the face. Tell that to the Acadians, who suffered a real deportation (which you likely applaud). The only place where French flourishes is in Quebec and very small parts of Ontario and New Brunswick.

        My reply: There you go again… going back how many years when NONE of us was ALIVE? WTF!!

        You say: And they DID. They embraced it and the culture and were proud to speak both languages.

        fxr says: I say: Non sequitur. Where did I say bilingual anglos were not an asset to our society?

        My reply: What????

        fxr says: You say: After all you language and culture is not being erased. So what’s your point?

        fxr says: Because, precisely of Bill 101.

        My reply: Bullshit.

        You say: New Brunswick is the ONLY true bilingual province and the small enclaves you speak of … does that include Moncton per chance?

        fxr says: Moncton is not a french-speaking city.

        My reply: No it’s a BILINGUAL city and NB is a Bilingual province and they live in harmony.

        fxr says: You say: By the way, you don’t even allow the small enclave of Montreal (a wee enclave given the vastness of la belle province) to be Bilingual… again with an English speaking population far greater than New Brunswick! So again… what’s your point? Still trying to justify the ethnic cleansing in Quebec?

        fxr says: Montreal? a wee enclave? It’s the largest city in Quebec! BTW, the population is smaller than the whole of NB btw.

        My reply: Yes a wee enclave in the VASTNESS of Quebec. And your point is?

        fxr says: There’s no ethnic cleansing in Quebec and never has been. When you’ll dig up some mass graves, tell me about it. Ask the Bosniaks which they would prefer: bill 101 or what they suffered? Ask the Indians here? Residential schools or Bill 101?

        My reply: You’d better look up the definition of “ethnic cleansing” so you will know – that killing “les autres” is the LAST and worst part of ethnic cleansing. Ethnic cleansing STARTS with the denial of rights, then language, then culture, then schools, hospitals, institutions etc…. That’s how it started in Germany… but spread at a much faster rate. As for Bosnia – it started the same way – one culture pitted against the other – one cultures rights removed – one culture made superior to the other…
        POINT MADE!!

        fxr says: This is my last message on the topic. You are clearly in bad faith. It’s sad. A real meaningful discussion about the rights and place of anglo-quebeckers in Quebec would have been very interesting, but your numbers and arguments come from dubious sources (a certain lobby which has risen from the ashes of Alliance Quebec). This is as stupid as a Sovereignist who based its arguments on Rhéaume’s website.

        BTW, don’t assume my political orientations and don’t claim you represent federalists at large. You clearly don’t.

        My reply: What… you can’t prove me wrong? So you run. Typical.

        • Despite my better judgment, I’ll answer.

          Your arguments are weak because they don’t use logic. You use plenty of sophistry.

          You make outrageous claims yet refuse to back them with facts or sources, except purely anedoctic stuff which isn’t good enought evidence in a debate.

          I won’t waste my time discussing with you.

          I- Your funky population claim

          Your claim that 67% of the Greater Montreal Area is allophone or anglophone (2 million people according to you) is not backed by statistics. According to the last survey conducted in 2006 by Statistics Canada or the number provided by the Quebec governement (based on Statscan’s numbers), this simply isn’t the case.

          According to Statscan (2006 survey):

          52,8% of the population on the Island of Montreal is francophone, 18,2% is anglophone and 29% is allophone.

          67,3% of the population of the Greater Montreal area is francophone, 12,1% is anglophone and 20,6% is allophone.

          The total population of the Greater Montreal area is 3 695 800 . 1 850 000 habitants live on the Island of Montreal.

          Hence, these numbers which I provide show that your claim of 2 000 000 allophones + anglophones is not backed by reality.

          II – Ethnic Cleansing

          Ethnic cleansing is defined by “the forcible removal of an ethnically defined population from a given territory”. This isn’t a definition I made up, it is the one that is legally binding. The fact that another definition arises from your fertile imagination does not invalidate the definition chosen by the world community.

          To prove ethnic cleansing, you have to prove (i) a removal by force (ii) ethnically defined population.

          There was no removal by force. People left because they felt like it. The fact that they were unhappy with the current political climate doesn’t mean there was a removal by force. The campaign of the FLQ was not aimed precisely at anglophones (the only person they murdered was a francophone.

          English-speakers are not ethnically defined. They can be of any ancestry, including French (see Pierre Poilievre, for instance).

          So you fail on both counts. If you still want to deny reality, why not lay a claim to the IJC?

          III- Media-conspiracy outrageous claim

          The fact that you are unwilling to mention your source re: CTV is a presumption that such a source doesn’t exist. It’s too easy to invent “sekrit” sources.

          Before arguing with others on the internet, take a few logic courses.

          • FACT: Before the language laws there were over 3,000,000 non francophones in the Province of Quebec – with a total population of approx: 7,000,000. (A number by the way – which hasn’t changed much at all = ergo: NO Growth like other provinces..)
            FACT: 600,000 FLED the Province That left 2,400,000 . I’m being generous by assuming another 400,000 must have left… leaving 2,000,000. Otherwise where the hell did they go? They were here – so where did they go? I’m talking about 1,000,000 people here?

            Let’s say they somehow mysteriously disappeared. That still leaves: By YOUR numbers 47.0% (and I strongly question the census..very strongly)… but let’s say you’re right.. to make you feel better. That still leaves 47.0% NON Francophone in Montreal… almost 50% (HALF) of the population!!!! And yet their right to exist in their chosen language is DENIED THEM!!

            And I said 2,000,000 live in Quebec – with the MAJORITY living in the Greater Montreal area. So don’t skew my numbers to suit or try to justify the racism and discrimination against the non Francophone Quebeckers!! As a matter of fact – racism and ethnic cleansing and discrimination against even ONE person is illegal, disgusting and pathetic. To make it …LAW and try to justify it in Canada and Quebec is HORRIFIC!

            fxr wrote: “Ethnic cleansing is defined by “the forcible removal of an ethnically defined population from a given territory”. This isn’t a definition I made up, it is the one that is legally binding. The fact that another definition arises from your fertile imagination does not invalidate the definition chosen by the world community.
            To prove ethnic cleansing, you have to prove (i) a removal by force (ii) ethnically defined population.”
            There was no removal by force. People left because they felt like it. The fact that they were unhappy with the current political climate doesn’t mean there was a removal by force. The campaign of the FLQ was not aimed precisely at anglophones (the only person they murdered was a francophone.

            English-speakers are not ethnically defined. They can be of any ancestry, including French (see Pierre Poilievre, for instance).

            So you fail on both counts. If you still want to deny reality, why not lay a claim to the IJC?

            III- Media-conspiracy outrageous claim

            The fact that you are unwilling to mention your source re: CTV is a presumption that such a source doesn’t exist. It’s too easy to invent “sekrit” sources.

            Before arguing with others on the internet, take a few logic courses.”

            My reply: Read Carefully.

            “The act and execution of ethnic cleansing sadly yet clearly takes on two official forms as defined by the United Nations.
            “Ethnic Cleansing as defined by the 50th Session: The elimination of an unwanted group from a society, as by genocide or forced migration.”

            Below I have copied and pasted the definition I speak of – written by someone far more eloquent than I am on the subject…

            ” It would appear the writer didn’t get any further than “genocide” when reading the United Nation’s definition of ethnic cleansing.
            To assist our letter writer and our international readers to better understand:
            As a non-Francophone in Quebec you ultimately have two choices: Change or leave. It’s that simple. 600,000 Anglophones have chosen “leave” from the two choices given to the linguistic minorities of Quebec. What is the other choice you ask? That other choice is, “change”. “Parle français, live our way, or leave”. Or as some militants like to spray paint around our communities: “Anglo go home”. “Canadian get out”. “Maudit anglais”. “Loi 101 ou le 401″.
            Leave your home. Leave your friends. Leave your family. Leave your province. Leave the place your family has lived since your ancestors first set foot in North America hundreds of years ago. Or, see option one.
            Allow us to repeat that number once more-SIX HUNDRED THOUSAND have chosen to leave their homes, close their businesses, leave their jobs, move themselves, their entire families, leave everything they know-opposed to living as second class citizens. Was this unintentional when those laws were penned and as they are still enforced? Of course not. It has always been the intention of the Francophone elite and their masses that have bought into the “the English speaking world is out to get us” myth.
            You may be asking yourself right now-what is it that has forced so many people from everything they knew? Well the answer is very simple and very real: the laws of Quebec. Not a myth. Not a common misconception. THE LAW! And Ottawa turning a blind eye to it. The Anglophone population becoming stuck between the province’s linguistic majority and federal governments need of the lion’s share of 75 House of Commons seats from the Province. The seats that hold the federal balance of power.
            But Francophone Quebec gets to have their cake and eat it too. Oh yes they do. When it comes to language and minority rights-why in that case, they are a provincial majority. When it comes to fictional self victimization-well then, they are a national minority. This “Canadian when convenient” policy has been working very well for 30 years now. Why is it this way? See: “lion’s share of 75 seats”.

            The “ists” as we like to refer to them (Independentists, sovereigntists, nationalists, separatists, whatever they are calling themselves this week), have ever changing rationales and justifications for their protectionist laws. So ever changing-it’s like combating a rogue virus that has become immune to the latest antibodies. You can slow it down, but it mutates. Rendering it only similar to its original form. But still baffling, very ugly and easily spread.
            As for our friend the writer. He like all those that have bought into the myth-never offer any evidence, statistics or proof of this “peril” the French language is in. Generally only offering shouting, defamatory comments, and vulgar insults. But Quebec’s laws are inclusive apparently. Oh, je m’excuse profusément-Still only Quebec with ethnocentric language laws!
            As for his reference to North America’s linguistic make-up. Seems our friend forgot a few people. Perhaps our Spanish speaking continental neighbours? It appears the monolingual United States, state by state-from California to Florida. From Georgia to Michigan, has made every effort to offer bilingual signage, state and federal services. So it would appear that even our American cousins have realized it is time for change. The average percentage of Spanish speakers by state is less than 6%.
            English speaking hospitals have been closed down. Emergency services officers that first ask if you speak French, or hang up on you. Our children deprived of educational materials. Anglophones cannot obtain civil service jobs. Anglophones are harassed in their places of employment. Harassed in public. Anglophone business owners constantly in fear that one of their stores signs may offend someone resulting in a visit from the Office of the French Language-AKA Gestapo Quebecois.
            But it is still the French language in peril, right? Never any mention of the once vibrant Anglophone communities of Gaspe or the Eastern Townships? No, it is only French Quebec that lives under some threat to its survival. Yes indeed. No ethnic cleansing in la belle province! Please excuse us while we call our relatives that now live in Ontario, Alberta, and B.C. to see what they think?
            We Anglo’s can just leave if we don’t like it, right?
            No more having it both ways! The world is finding out. And we are here to ensure they do!”

            End quote.

          • FXR-Ethnocide is a concept RELATED TO genocide. Primarily, the term, close to cultural genocide, is used to describe the destruction of a culture of a people, as opposed to the people themselves. It may involve a linguicide, phenomenons of acculturation, etc. Furthermore, by contrast with a genocide, an ethnocide is not necessarily intentional. However, unlike genocide, which has entered into international law, ethnocide remains primarily the province of ethnologists, who have not yet settled on a single cohesive meaning for the term.
            Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group.
            The United Nations Draft Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (26 August 1994) [2] uses the phrase “cultural genocide” but does not define what it means. It states that:
            Article 7
            1. Indigenous peoples have the collective and individual right not to be subjected to ethnocide and cultural genocide, including prevention of and redress for:
            (a) Any action which has the aim or effect of depriving them of their integrity as distinct peoples, or of their cultural values or ethnic identities;
            (b) Any action which has the aim or effect of dispossessing them of their lands, territories or resources;
            (c) Any form of population transfer which has the aim or effect of violating or undermining any of their rights;
            (d) Any form of assimilation or integration by other cultures or ways of life imposed on them by legislative, administrative or other measures;
            (e) Any form of propaganda directed against them

            There are various meanings of Genocide / Ethnocide as you can see above. Not just the one you have pulled up. I could add quite a few more however, I think the point would be missed. If you read about it however, you will see its systematic process, in which is happening here in Quebec. Also, I have included FYI the UN declaration of rights of indigenous peoples. I would like to draw your attention to D, was it not the Quebec Government (proposed by Pauline Marois), who would like to implement a sworn affidavit for immigrants to do just the opposite?

      • FXR-
        You make reference to the “October Crisis where plenty of people got illegally arrested”. Why your views are completely one-sided is beyond me. You state that there was no bloodshed, and completely ignore Didi’s reference to the FLQ. Perhaps there was no blood as they strangled Mr. Laporte with his own rosary beads however, there was death! Could have been a second one had the Federal Government not reacted. This, along with the many bombings was the reason people were arrested, the FLQ had threatened to react, “On 15 October 1970, more than 3,000 students attended a protest rally in favour of the FLQ. Demonstrations of public support influenced subsequent government actions – the Canadian Army was called in (this can be referenced ANYWHERE on the internet). And what happened to those who DID get arrested, they received a mere “slap on the wrist” for their crimes of death and kidnapping.
        “Nevertheless, terrorist activities continue to occur at the hands of isolated members of the organization. In 1993, in Montreal’s Dominion Square, next to the Queen Elisabeth Hotel, the bronze statue of John A. Macdonald, (Canada’s first prime minister) was decapitated during the night, using heavy-duty equipment. The base of the headless statue bore the signature of the F.L.Q acronym the next morning, and the head was never found. It was cast again, and replaced the next year by federal authorities. In 2001, Rhéal Mathieu, a member who in 1967 was sentenced to 9 years in prison for terrorist activities including murder, was convicted of the attempted firebombing of three Second Cup coffee shops in Montreal. Mathieu targeted Canada’s largest speciality coffee retailer because of the company’s use of its incorporated English name Second Cup. According to a spokesman for the company, the bombings resulted in customers being afraid to go to Second Cup coffee shops, resulting in a substantial loss of business. The company altered some of their signs to read, Les cafés Second Cup. For his offence, a judge sentenced Rhéal Mathieu to one month in jail in addition to the nine months he had already been held. He was also given a six-month sentence to be served concurrently for illegal possession of a sawed-off shotgun and a .38-calibre revolver. Shortly thereafter, seven McDonald’s restaurants were firebombed In 2006, vandals spray painted “FLQ” on the side of the Midas Muffler shop in Moncton, New Brunswick, indicating sympathetic tendencies of some in the community to the terrorist group.”
        As for your reference to Howard Galganov, I think you should read a little more also as Galganov is campaigning for Freedom of speech, and has teamed with a Francophone gentleman to fight for this right as he has gone against the bilingual signage law and posted his signs in French only.
        FXR said: French didn’t fourished at all. Tell that to the Metis population in Manitoba, they’ll slap you in the face. Tell that to the Acadians, who suffered a real deportation (which you likely applaud). The only place where French flourishes is in Quebec and very small parts of Ontario and New Brunswick.
        French has been alive since the 1700’s. There were NO laws banning French, yes there was discrimination, we don’t deny that, but as I mentioned there was discrimination on both sides and directed toward middle & lower class families/individuals. They are also making great strides in Manitoba in the French community in order to preserve the language and culture there, what is Quebec doing to ensure the English minority of Quebec? Imposing more laws? I am of the opinion that the English community would like to participate and share with its Francophone counterparts however, are often frowned upon or are made to feel unwelcome.
        As far as pay scales go, I have read that now the tables have turned and it is in fact, Anglophones who are underpaid today, are laws going to be made to ensure Anglophones are up to par with these pay scales? As for social protection, this again existed for both French / English, Duplessis was not very keen on unions and such and did what he could to keep them out.
        I have a question for you FXR – What is being done to ensure the status of Anglophones in Quebec? Please leave out the argument that we have our schools, hospitals, media and one newspaper that will never paint the true picture of Anglophones plight here in Quebec. As these have been done over and over again and also shoved in our faces as to how privileged we are to have such basic necessities that we in fact, years ago, helped build. How dare they be left to us Anglophones for our families and future generations to enjoy. But really, aside from those, what is being done? Did you ever try to contact the PQ, Bloc etc…posing as an Anglophone in order to inquire about what will be done in a sovereign Quebec in order to ensure the status of Anglophones? I have, and you know what, I never received a response. Have you ever addressed the National Assembly as an Anglophone? Guess what? No response from them either. If this is not a clear statement then I don’t know what is!

    • @ FXR
      A few facts:
      I believe that a large part of allophones speak English. When discussing numbers, one has to take this into consideration as if you figure in the Jewish community alone, there are a very large part whom are English speaking as their second language and working in said community, I would feel comfortable in stating English is the language many use at home. I have read numbers of English speaking individuals in Quebec is roughly the amount Didi has indicated to you.
      As for the exodus, I’d like to know how you obtained dates that Anglophones started leaving as early as 1971 since Stats. Can only started keeping these figures from 1971. The following obtained from a local newspaper – “Quebec has experienced two peak periods of exodus to other provinces since Statistics Canada started keeping records on interprovincial migration in 1971. The first wave from 1976-1983 was substantially larger than the second wave from 1994-2000.” Don’t fool yourself by thinking Anglo’s did not leave due to the language laws, this may be something they tell you in order to make it look good however, I speak from personal experience, and lost part of my family due to these laws. Not to mention at the time, many companies did not want to incur the added expense of bilingualism so decided to move head offices to Ontario. I’m surprised you don’t know that many Anglophones left at that time as they would be unemployed and their chances in the market here would be fewer than lets say, our Francophone counterparts. Also, you speak of a recession, well this was everywhere in Canada at the time and was particularly strong in Ontario, so your disillusion that Anglo’s left because six Francophone MP’s were elected, etc…(kind of ridiculous if you ask me), in order to move on to greener pastures is false.
      The statistics of language in the work force: this may be verified at Stats Can under the heading: Language used most often at work 4,266,965 employed 531,935 English 3,498,285 French
      This clearly demonstrates French is the language mostly used in the work force. I once worked for an American owned company that actually had an individual on site to ensure all 101 laws were upheld. We were also told to use French when conversing with our co-workers. The companies I have worked for have conducted themselves mostly in French, not English. With my current employer being the exception, being it an English school, which actually uses 4 languages.
      As for professions enshrined in the Code of Professions, it is necessary to write and pass, a French fluency test.
      A unilingual Francophone may have difficulty obtaining a job in the rest of Canada as Canadian laws stipulate individuals hired to work for Federal government agencies MUST be bilingual. Also, having lived in another province aside from Quebec, I can assure you that bilingualism is attractive and salaries for said individuals receive better compensation.
      Francophones and Anglophones alike are intelligent, all individuals are as intelligent as they wish to be, given the ease of access to education. This being said, unfortunately Maurice Duplessis was bent on keeping the population on farms and women reproducing. During this period, the English started to develop institutions such as Bank of Montreal, McGill University, Labatt, , Royal Victoria Hospital, Seagrams (to name a few) etc… How can this be blamed on Anglo’s? This was the catholic churches doing. Did you also know that while Francophones attended their church services, they were being told by the congregation that if the own residential dwellings, not to rent to Anglophones? Ah, but we’re best off not to mention that. This was not something that was publicized however, my grandmother had mentioned this as this was what she was told by her Francophone friend back then. (Both middle class and lower class of any language were being discriminated against!)
      Yes Quebec is the sole French speaking province of Canada however, as stated and can be verified on the Immigration Quebec website; Successive governments have legislated to guarantee the Anglophone minority use of its language and institutions (this is oftentimes not adhered to, especially when told, “we’re in Quebec, speak French”, you know, similar to the Eaton’s incident?) I can assure you this happens in more institutions than just two or three.

  8. @fxr…

    Although Didi is spot on… Let’s not talk numnbers for a secon. Because you interpret numbers, not actually use them in any form of mathematical logic anyway.

    People have left… is that not strange to you? Answer that question… Is that not strange to you?!? Change or leave… WOW! What an accepting culture! “Loi 101 ou le 401” right?

    Besides all that the Quebec “ists” (nationalists, separatists, sovereigntists, whatever the nom du jour is) have been doing for 3 decades now is re-writing history, shoving the circle through the square and making 1+1=3. Marvelous feat. The house of cards however is crumbling. The fact is, Quebec has ethnocentric laws. Flying the flag of protectionism. What a wonderful thing that is! Grab knife, cut nose, give face spiteful look. The law (101) is unconstitutional and unethical. I am sick and tired of being a second class citizen in the PROVINCE where my family has lived for 300 years!!! Just incase you didn’t get it. T-H-R-E-E H-U-N-D-R-E-D Y-E-A-R-S!!! Speaking the forked tongue of the devil… English! In Quebec… mon dieu! “Maudit anglais” right?

    The world is going to find out about all this garbage, and Quebec and Ottawa will be shamed. I can’t wait. Then maybe I can fly my Canadian flag without fearing violence against my property, home, or my wife or kids being physically attacked. Yep, culture of equality we have here. What a facade! “Anlgo go home” right? And where is that? See above.

    Here’s some math for you. Q: If you fold in my thumb, then fold in my index finger, then subtract my pinky finger and finger attached to my 4th metacarpal, what are you left with?

    Better call the OLF because I don’t say “bonjour”. So, “have a nice day”.

    • “Here’s some math for you. Q: If you fold in my thumb, then fold in my index finger, then subtract my pinky finger and finger attached to my 4th metacarpal, what are you left with? ”

      Your bigotry? Your francophobia?

      You said: “The law (101) is unconstitutional and unethical. I am sick and tired of being a second class citizen in the PROVINCE where my family has lived for 300 years!!! ”

      Your family arrived in 1710? Before the war? When New France was a French colony? Liar.

      Labatt, the Bank of Montreal, Seagram were founded while Duplessis (who was funded by anglos, btw)

      My family arrived in 1657.

      Your family treated my family like shit for 250 years.

      You treated french québécois like shit for 300 years and, in some respect, still do. You are simply furious that those water carriers you hated have risen up and took some modicum of economical powers. It was just simply easy for you when Westmount as an all-English town and that the French bastards were just sheep following around a certain clergy.

      You were the same person that was campaigning against bilingual laws in Canada, so don’t be an hypocrite with your demand of equality… what you want is supremacy.

      You campaing against a law that states that a person cannot be fired for speaking French. It shows your low opinion of French-speakers.

      The goal was set in 1840 by Durham and several Canadians still hold the same views this guy did.

      Fortunately, most anglos and allophones in Quebec are not against bill 101, only certain provisions of it. One of the best pieces pro-bill 101 was written by a McGill professor named George Baum, an anglophone who works in an anglo university.

      • to fxr:

        I’m delighted that Canadians are finally going to be to read and feel what non francohones in Quebec are forced to live with on a daily basis.

        Statements like “Your family treated my family like shit for 250 years” and “You treated french quebecois like shit for 300 years … etc…etc… ” coupled with your mid finger in the air, name calling – complete distortion of IC’s phrases (ex: You campaing (sp) against a law that states a person cannot be fired for speaking French. It shows your low opinion of French-speakers.”) is about the clearest and best demonstration of what anglo’s and allos have to deal with on a daily basis – in the “Bienvenue a Quebec – la belle province”.

        You completely IGNORE IC’s and tired of the BS .. facts and figures replies (as does your other buddy on this page) . Your rants and raves and obvious hatred of “les anglais” make me wonder how you were raised. It’s very sad for a child to be “conditioned” into believing that one culture has the right to be superior to another. In a way my heart goes out to all you who feel this way. I won’t explain why, I don’t think you’d get it at this point of your life. Maybe one day when you learn the truth.

      • FXR –
        Je n’ai rien contre la langue française.
        Ce n’était pas ma famille qui a mal traité le tien pendant des années. C’était les Britanniques riche. Je suis fière de ma famille car ils ont était juste vers tout le monde, sans discussion de langue. Ma grand-mère avait les ami(e)s francophones ainsi que les ami(e)s anglophones. Il n’y avait aucune différence, sauf la langue. Je peux bien constater elle à parler à ses ami(e)s francophone en français. Elle à appris la langue, même dans les années 1900, imagine (sans les lois)??? Tu peux bien accuser ma famille d’être discriminatoire mais au moins je les connais et je pense que tu parle d’une autre famille que le mien.
        Ma famille nous avons encouragé d’apprendre le français et nous sommes fières de l’avoir appris. Aujourd’hui mes enfants sont bilingues et trilingue (Anglais, Français et Espagnole). Je suis très fière d’eux et je les encourage. Au moins ils ont des opportunités qui ne leur limitent pas à notre belle province. Je pense que tu vie dans le passé un peu trop mon ami. Nous, les Anglophones d’aujourd’hui, ne sont pas contre l’apprentissage de la langue française, nous apprécions que, avoir plus qu’une langue apporte des avantages. Surtout dans les autres provinces et les autre pays.
        Avant d’accusé quelqu’un, t’es mieux de savoir de quoi tu parle et de s’assurer que tu as raison, qui n’est pas le cas avec moi.
        En passant, je supporte entièrement le bilinguisme au Canada! Partout au Canada (mon Canada inclure Québec)!
        Je m’adresse pas au balance de ta poste car tu as tort sur presque toute.

      • FXR – The only one trreating others like shit around here is you.

  9. To IC and tiredof the BS;

    Thank you for the added info, stats etc… I just sent the following letter to Mr. Ignatieff on the Liberal Party of Canada’s facebook page. Will you join me and ask your friends to do the same?

    https://www.liberal.ca/join_e.aspx

    My Dear Mr. Ignatieff,

    I wonder, if you’re going to stand up and restore equal rights to the non francophone English population of Quebec? (at least 2,000,000 strong) Are you going to allow the discrimination and ethnic cleansing to continue? Are you going to speak up for what you know is right? Or are you just going to the same as the other politicians who have stayed silent? And pretend we don’t exist!

    Don’t you think the rest of Canada would support you like crazy if you demonstrated the courage to ensure ALL Canadians have the right to live – and work in English in Quebeck? I think you’d become the new hero and wouldn’t need the Quebec seats because you’d be too busy counting all your new seats in the rest of the country.

    If you opt not to speak up then I formally request refugee status. It will at least give me a bit more to live on than old age pension that I’m 3 years away from and a home outside Quebeck that I can’t afford to relocate to. Have been too busy raising my son and taking care of elderly parents – while eking out a living in ‘don’t allow an anglo to get a decent job Quebeck’.

    Didi Miesen

    cc: all my friends on Facebook and beyond

  10. Oh, just another note FXR, as for Anglophones leaving Quebec, it was estimated at that time that approximately 1,700 people / month left the province.

  11. It is hard to follow the discussion here (If we could call it that) the “facts” stated by didi and fxr are mostly self serving and are hard to refute as they are not backed up by any evidence other than their own say so. ! million Francophones outside of Québec are weary of this tired little game of yelling down the other guy. So you have fun getting mad and we will take care of ourselves. Perhaps we will even surprise a few separatist along the way. (That includes the one wanting to push Quebec out of Canada)

    • To MB.

      They’re hard to refute because they are TRUE. And it’s easy to turn your head and say you’re tired of the yelling etc… Have you ever considered asking your politicians why non francophone Quebecers have had their language erased and human rights taken away? Doesn’t that concern you that that can happen in Canada? If not, it should my friend. It really should. Because it sets the stage to have YOUR rights taken away. Think about it.

      • Please read mu post again “It is hard to follow the discussion here (If we could call it that) the “facts” stated by didi and fxr are mostly self serving and are hard to refute as they are not backed up by any evidence other than their own say so” So you accept the fact by fxr?

        Could you please remark on what has happened in Manitoba and the metis?

        • To MB:

          No I do NOT accept the ‘FALSEHOODS’ stated by fxr. Also, I’m primarily discussing what has been happening for the past 35 years and NOW, with the ethnic cleansing going on in Quebeck. With the RIGHTS, English LANGUAGE and CULTURE being ERASED from THE face OF THE PROVINCE. k why well over 600,000 were FORCED to FLEE the Province – and the LIES and MYTHS that were used to “justify” this blatant discrimination.

          With you asking me to remark on what happened in Manitoba and the Metis a couple of hundred years ago – are you saying the REMOVAL and DENIAL OF RIGHTS ethnic cleansing going on AGAINST English speaking Quebeckers is justified because of something that happened hundreds of years ago in Manitoba?? That English Quebecers are ‘obligated’ to pay the price of – some bigots – back then?

          If that’s the case, I must assume that you would then feel it’s right for the Jews of the World to remove the languages and cultures and rights of most of the GLOBE including FRANCE and “new France’ and Moroco and every other French colony… because they have been persecuted worldwide for thousands of years. They have much more of a reason backed by TRUTH and TRUE HISTORY (not like the mythical nonsense taught in French Schools in Quebec) to take ‘revenge’ on what was done to their forefathers, non?

          Instead of understanding and embracing multiculturalism (because civilization has ‘evolved’) you and ‘yours’ seem to prefer the ‘primitive’ mindset of murderers like Hitler and his “Pure Race” and your
          “Pur Laines” wipe ‘les autres’ (the others) OUT of existance.

          Does that answer your question?

          • You just made a big assumption. I am not a pure laine and my reference to the métis in Manitoba is something very close to my heart because I am a Manitoban and dig deep enough you will probably find some métis blood. I do not exactly what you may not have experienced but I know and a careful reading of history suggest the so call “anglo exodus” started more in the 50s and had more to do with better economic opportunities in Toronto and the west than conditions in Québec. You want to talk about genocide in Canada then talk about the Acadians the Métis the Aboriginals and compare their their past and present situations to what you claim you are going through (By the way are NOW in Québec?)

          • MB,
            I have to be the first to say that my knowledge with regards to the Métis, although I have read a bit and am reading more, is limited. I do however, possess quite a bit of knowledge with regards to my own province (Québec) and would just like to say that it is common knowledge Anglophones started leaving the provinces in masses in the late 70`s – early 80`s. This was due to the language laws, not for better opportunities. Some of my family/friends were part of that exodus.
            I would also like to say, thanks for directing my interest to what happened in Manitoba.
            I do not feel we should be harbouring grudges but should rather be focusing on how to make things better, and for ALL societies to be inclusive despite race, language, culture etc…Would you not agree? We can remember our past however, I think we have to move on and focus on making our, and more importantly our childrens future better!

  12. Simply had to share my son’s story! I apologize for its length!

    My First Love, My Reason for Being, My Son!

    Before Kyle took his first breath, little did he know of the world that he almost missed!
    Ten weeks after conception, his biological father refused to acknowledge his existence.
    He ordered to have him removed and even went as far as setting up an appointment for me, at the Elizabeth Bagshaw abortion clinic, in Vancouver, B.C.

    I went for my appointment. In the back of my mind I knew it was the best thing to do, as things weren’t going so well within our relationship. I got to the clinic early, signed a few documents and was told to wait in the waiting room for my name to be called.

    I decided to go outside. The air, in that clinic, was stuffy and I needed to breathe and reflect upon what was going to happen next. Across the street, there was a park. I decided to go there and sit on a bench. Little did Kyle know; that moment saved his life for the first time!

    Before me, I watched as a mother pushed her daughter in a swing. The laughter that came from that child; still warms my heart today! It sent me in a daze and before I knew it, I missed my appointment!

    Upon returning home, I knew I would have some serious explaining to do. My mind was set; NO ONE was going to tell me what I was to do with my body, my life and MY child!

    Needless to say, this event changed the course of my life, as I knew it wouldn’t be long before I would become a single mother!

    When Kyle was merely 3 months old, after many arguments and disputes (some of them in which Kyle fell victim to), I decided it was time for me to leave. I truly feared his life and mine. I destroyed all traces of my life, within the walls of that home. I packed up only one suitcase and with my ex’s blessing, boarded a Grey Hound Bus, destined for Montreal, taking my son with me and never looked back.

    This was back in May of 1998; the second time Kyle’s life was spared!

    -2-

    Upon returning to Montreal, I did everything I could in order to give Kyle a normal life. I remember rummaging through garbage in July, trying to find pieces of furniture I could refurbish. My work was admired by many to such a degree, a neighbour (Mrs. Kathleen Bell) called the local newspaper (The Monitor) and I was interviewed for a story. I made the front cover and impacted many with my story. I have kept that article, safely tucked away in Kyle’s “Memory Box”.

    The life of a single mother wasn’t an easy one. Juggling a full-time job and having to run around with my son, by bus. The world didn’t care in what situation I was in, life had to go on and this meant I had to be everywhere and on time.

    I hated placing Kyle in a daycare! I have always been under the belief that if you choose to have a child, you and only you should be responsible for that child’s upbringing! Call me old fashioned, but isn’t that what being a “mother” means?

    At his daycare, Kyle spent his days surrounded by sick children! There wasn’t a single day that went by that I didn’t hear of yet another child having some kind of cold or flu. It seemed as if I never left the drugstore. The pharmacist knew me on a first name basis, as I would have to continuously refill a prescription for an antibiotic or another for my son.

    One day, while at work, I got a call that changed the course of our lives once more. I was asked not to panic and to make my way to the Saint-Justine Hospital. Kyle had collapsed, while at daycare and was rushed to the emergency; Diagnosis: severe pneumonia. Dr’s and nurses weren’t sure if Kyle would make it within the next 24-48 hours!

    It was upon seeing my son, hooked up to all those machines that I decided I couldn’t do this to him anymore. From the hospital, I called my boss and verbally resigned my position as bookkeeper, for Globalliance. My son was more important than any paycheque I could get! Right there and then, I swore that I would do anything it took to fight for his life!

    That moment was the third time Kyle’s life was saved, as I was able to stay home and nurse him back to health.

    Unemployment ran out, but it didn’t matter. I fell on the aid of social services and was labelled a “Welfare Mom” by many, but I didn’t care! My son was alive and he was well. This is all that mattered to me!

    Kyle was happy to have me by his side, each and every day. There wasn’t anything we didn’t do together. We were inseparable.

    -3-

    For 7 years, I raised Kyle alone. I did so without any help from anyone, without even a single dime from his biological father. My mother raised me to believe, to “Stay away from what stinks!” I took her words seriously and never communicated with that side of my past for anything, no matter how hard times were for us.

    Our lives took a change for the better, the day I met and married my husband. Finally, my son could have a positive male role model in his life. We moved to Lachute, leaving behind our tiny apartment in Montreal. We established a life for our new family, in a beautiful home of our own. We finally had a backyard our children could play in, without fearing them getting hit by a passing car! Kyle didn’t take to the move very well. He was very upset, as he had to say goodbye to all the friends he had made at his school, “École Somerled”. In Lachute, we enrolled Kyle into the 2nd grade, at what seemed to be a pretty decent school, “École St-Alexandre”. We hoped it wouldn’t be long before he would make new friends. Unfortunately, our hopes came crashing down, the day we were called to the principal’s office. Kyle was involved in his first fist fight of his life!

    It seemed as if we never left that principal’s office, as Kyle would continuously return home with cuts and bruises, or some story about some kid who called him names. Try explaining to an 8 year old what the words; “Tête Carrée”, “Bloque” and “Anglo”, meant! It wasn’t easy for us, as parents, to introduce our son to the lovely world of discrimination! Such a sad reality!

    It wasn’t long after that we came to realize that this verbal abuse wasn’t restricted to the kids around him. His 2nd grade teacher also added to the pot. Kyle sat in her class and he honestly felt as if he were invisible. My son complained that he would often raise his hand for a question, but his teacher would continuously ignore him! We came to know this, as I would get upset at Kyle, while in the midst of helping him with his homework and asked: “Why didn’t you ask your teacher to explain this to you, if you didn’t understand?”

    Back to the principal’s office we went! I asked the principal to show me a list of students’ names in Kyle’s class. It wasn’t to any surprise of mine why all of this was happening. “Kyle Wozniak” should have been “Kyle Géniak”, in order for his teacher to have acknowledged him in her class!

    It was in back in May of 2006, that we decided, enough was enough! “Let’s get Kyle out of that school!” Unfortunately, “École St-Alexandre” was the ONLY French school in the tiny city of Lachute. Our only other option, there after, was to enlist him into an English school, but I knew this would involve a great deal of research and paperwork. It also meant I would have to disturb a hornet’s nest, out West, which has remained quiet and dormant for the last 8 years!

    -4-

    It took all the courage I had in me, in order to contact my ex-in-law’s for their help in finding my son’s biological father. Needless to say, they would not help me locate him. They were under the belief that once found, I would nail their son for arrears on Child Support!!! As if I really needed his money! I went 8 years without it, why would I have wanted it then???!

    My cries for help went unanswered. All we could do was keep an eye on Kyle and his situation at his school until his year ended. We prayed that come September, his 3rd grade teacher would be a little more…for the lack of a better word “educated”! Our prayers were answered, as Kyle’s teacher was a wonderful woman. But the bullying, which followed Kyle daily outside his classroom, continued!

    I can clearly remember catching Kyle bringing his toys to school, to pay off bullies. When caught, he would say that he was allowed to bring toys to class, as his teacher would allow all the kids to play during recess. I was alright with that, until I noticed those toys never made their way back home!

    Back to the principal’s office we went once more! The names of these bullies were noted down and the parents were contacted. Soon after, we got a call from a disgruntle father, cursing us all for having given his son a bad name! We were told to move back to Ontario where we came from…funny thing was, I had never been there and wondered if perhaps we should have looked into this prospect!!!

    Sometime during this entire mess, I fell pregnant and soon after, my daughter Ania was born. Kyle was extremely happy to have a sibling, his first sister! Shortly after that, my daughter Mia was born. At this time, Kyle started getting irritated, as there are only so many sisters a young boy can handle!

    Our so called “Happy Life” in Lachute could only take so much! We were being discriminated upon from all sides for being the new “Anglo” family in the neighbourhood. Kyle was not the only one getting an inch thick daily. We also, could barely say “Good Morning” to our neighbours, without being completely ignored!

    Enough was enough! We packed up all of our things and returned back to Montreal. For the sake of our sanity, we needed to get back to “real” civilization!

    It wasn’t an easy move, as we moved into a tiny upper duplex, coming from a 2 floored home. Everyone was cramped, but very happy! We were finally home!

    -5-

    Upon arriving to Montreal, a quick call was placed to the French School Board, in order to find out which school Kyle would attend. We were pleased to know that his school would be just a hop and skip away from home, no bus needed! Another wonderful bonus was the fact that his school was mixed and filled with many students of different nationalities! Kyle would no longer be discriminated upon! “Hurray!!!” I thought.

    Shortly after the start of his new school year, we came to realize, Kyle would not make it. He would most certainly fail his year! Somewhere between the hour’s drive, between Lachute and Montreal, we passed an “Education Warp”. We realized the curriculum he was faced with, was far greater than anything he had seen in Lachute!

    After seeing Kyle’s homework for the first time, I was in total and complete disbelief. His math homework contained problems a college student would have had difficulties in solving! The following day, I went straight to Kyle’s new school and demanded to speak to his principal. If this was the way things were going to be, I was going to have to get him all the help they could offer, or else he would be completely lost and fail his year!

    The principal assured me that she would have a word with Kyle’s teacher and bring to her attention his unique schooling history. Needless to say, this didn’t help much. When I asked his teacher to call me at home, to tell her first hand of Kyle’s past, pleading with her to take everything into account and to watch over my boy, she simply responded:
    “I have 25 other students in my class! Your son is not my only concern! Get him a private tutor!”

    Outraged, I immediately wrote a letter to the Ministry of Education of Quebec, blasting them out of the water! I expressed my total and complete disgust with where our French School System has gone over the years! I clearly remember going to French School and NEVER did my parents have to worry about me or my school work! If I had a problem, my teachers would take the time, even after school was out, to sit in class until I understood what was taught to me that day!

    Sadly enough, back then, men and women became teachers as a vocation. They were devoted to their work, to their students and to their future community! Today, becoming a teacher, to most, simply means getting a paycheque from the government!!!

    I waited for a response from the Ministry of Education of Quebec. I was determined to get my son the help he needed. I was damned if I would have to pay for a private tutor, to teach my son a language that was forced upon him by an Archaic law!

    -6-

    It was while I waited for this response, that an incident at Kyle’s school changed the course of Kyle’s education.

    My son was sent to detention and had to copy his “Code de vie” 10 times, for having spoken English on school grounds, while outside at recess!

    This was the last straw for me!

    Fuelled by absolute anger and disgust, I went straight to the English Montreal School Board and proceeded to enlist Kyle into their system! I knew the battle would be long and hard, but after everything my son had been through, I had to save him once more, no matter what it took!

    Everything seemed to be rolling smoothly. Information I could provide, about Kyle’s biological father’s high school in Surrey, B.C., gave the staff at the registration office sufficient proof to proceed with his file. They knew my son would be a shoe-in. I was given the go-ahead and Kyle was registered and in class at Willingdon on September 30th, 2008. His registration remained open, pending an avis.

    We never believed it would go this far! It seemed as if no matter how much information we could possibly provide about my ex’s schooling, it simply wasn’t enough! Poor staff at the administration office at EMSB! They had no choice but to keep rattling the hornet’s nest out West. They placed calls on a daily basis, in order to get to the bottom of this “sacred” information, the Ministry of Education of Quebec demanded!

    It was never enough!

    We kept facing one dead end, after another. It came down to not having enough proof, due to a fire and some documents were destroyed, after a period of 30 years. So an affidavit was drawn up, for the biological father to sign and this is when my ex-mother-in-law put an end to all communication!!! There was only so much she could take of this continuous hounding, for information pertaining her son’s life!

    One signature…

    My son’s life and future hangs in the balance due to one missing signature!

    This is the one and only time that I can honestly say, I felt helpless!
    I could not do anything more, than what I have already done, in order to save my son’s life, that time around!

    I simply got angry! Called the media and got everyone’s attention!

    Had it not been for my son’s story airing on the 6 o’clock national news, my son would have been forced out of his school! It was thanks to the public’s outcry, that my ex-in-laws felt pressured and finally signed the necessary affidavit, attesting to my son’s biological father’s schooling. That document was sent to the Montreal English School Board and was forwarded (EXPRESS) to the Quebec Ministry of Education’s attention. Soon after, my ex signed his copy and it was also sent to the Misnistry’s office. Within 24 hours, my son was reenlisted, under a “new” file, with ALL required documents inside! That same week, I received my son’s certificate of eligibility, passed under article 73 and my son’s fight was over!

    Had it not been for those affidavits signed by both my ex and his mother…NO GOVERNMENT, No Liberals, No Conservatives, NO ONE would have budged for my son!

    Only a mother can fight to the bitter end! Only a mother!

    • I would like to add something…
      I have no issues with the French language or its people. I, myself, went to French school my entire life. I have many French Quebecer friends and value their friendship! The situation with my son, was a unique one and even my French speaking friends were appalled by how our government handle it!
      In September of 2008, I enlisted my son into a French Emersion School. 60% of his classes are in French and only 40% in English. This, according to the Quebec Ministry of Education, was absolutely UNACCEPTABLE! The fact that my son had a better chance of succeeding within the walls of an English run institution, had no weight in this entire battle! My son’s future didn’t mean squat to the Ministry…what was more important was funding and where that funding would eventually go! Each school board gets a certain amount of money, per child…but in order for any child to attend a school under the English Board, that child must provide a stood and urine sample in order to prove that he indeed has the right to be there!!! As a parent, I have the right to choose which doctor my son sees. I can even choose which dentist he will visit, but in Quebec, I have absolutely NO RIGHT to decide which education my son will have and in which institution! This was all done for me, by an Archaic Administration, according to our postal code! Sure, I could have sent my son to a private English school, but who has $15K/year to pay for the tuition??? In other provinces, you have the right to decide what school your child may go to, French or English and no matter what you decide, it costs you nothing!!!
      My son’s schooling has improved since he transferred. His grades went up as a result, as his overall self-esteem was no longer under fire for being “different”! He may clearly communicate with his teachers, in the language of HIS choice and get his point across without reprecautions for having spoken “English”. The “laws” and “politics” behind this entire “Quebec” situation is of no interest to me. Let them all have it! My only concern is the future of my children and I may rest soundly at night knowing that their futures will be bright, as they will see the world beyond their backyards…unlike all the others!
      This is all I had to add.

      • NW, your story is shocking, and I’m sure there are many others like it.

        There is never, and I say never, any reason why human rights should be denied. The freedom of people should be curtailed for the cultural sensitivities of others. And the tyranny of the majority is no reason to deny basic human rights.

    • To NW:

      There are no words to express my sorrow over what you, your son and your family have had to endure. You have though, demonstrated the power of a mother’s love and the mountain’s it can move!! And I’m positive you have inspired more (than you will ever know) mother’s and parents who are still fighting to get or keep their children into the school of their choice, the one that’s best suited for their child.

      As a matter of fact, I believe in the ‘education law’ there is a ‘clause’ that says a parent can ask for an ‘exception to the loi” (going by memory here – but do remember reading it) for the welfare of the child etc…

      The problem is, as clearly demonstrated in your case… they make it as difficult and as miserable as possible. I’m also curious about the teacher who bullied your son and the administrators who allowed it and the bullying in the school yard. I believe that is ILLEGAL (to torture a child – or anyone for that matter) so shouldn’t criminal charges be filed against these individuals?

      • Of course charges can be placed! You can take just about anyone to court…but do you have a friend who is a lawyer and who would fight this in courts, for as long as it would take…for free????
        Before I took my son’s case to the media, we have had our share of legal fees to pay! All of which piled up and we had no choice but to file for bankruptcy! Over $8000.00 to find a deadbeat somewhere in the booneys of Alberta! I am angered and very disgusted. I am simply glad this matter is over! Thanks to article 73, my son’s children will be able to attend an English institution and for as long as I live, I will no longer have to deal with the likes of those yahoos! Amen!

        • To NW.

          I believe the Quebec Human Rights department (if there is such a beast for anglos anyway…lol), Canada’s Human Rights departments (that I hear has nothing but time on their hands), your local MP, MNA etc.. are obligated to help you, and/or any of their constituents, especially in cases like this, including access to legal help. It would of course take time and energy – and I’m imagining you must be exhausted with what you’ve had to endure – but you have the right to first file criminal charges against the “individuals” involved; and then from there – take it to the political representatives who have sworn to “serve their constituents etc…”. Am sure if say a Facebook Page or something like that was created – to unite the many thousands of others who have and are experiencing the same crimes against their children and themselves – the political help and legal help would be forthcoming and you wouldn’t feel like you have to fight this alone. That’s how most people feel in cases like this, that they are alone… and the fact is they are far from alone. I’d imagine it would make the headlines too no?

  13. MB addressed this to me. Unable to reply under his post so am doing it here.

    “You just made a big assumption. I am not a pure laine and my reference to the métis in Manitoba is something very close to my heart because I am a Manitoban and dig deep enough you will probably find some métis blood. I do not exactly what you may not have experienced but I know and a careful reading of history suggest the so call “anglo exodus” started more in the 50s and had more to do with better economic opportunities in Toronto and the west than conditions in Québec. You want to talk about genocide in Canada then talk about the Acadians the Métis the Aboriginals and compare their their past and present situations to what you claim you are going through (By the way are NOW in Québec?)”

    My reply: Sorry about that MB. I forgot for a moment the term is used here in Quebeck , meaning pure wool literally, but we all know it means pure French Canadian. Labels run amok here you see. The terms anglophone and allophone didn’t exist while I was growing up in the Province. They were coined sometime in the late 60’s or so. At the time I was living in the Bahamas for a couple of years, missed the FLQ crisis by a nose… and only found out upon my return that I was now considered an allophone! For the first moment I misunderstood my sister, who used the phrase and thought she was talking about telephones. When she filled me in I remember I started to laugh and didn’t take it seriously in the least. Little did I know, sigh.

    Now, I don’t know what history books you are reading, but take it from someone who lived Through it, you are mistaken. The exodus started much later than that. It started en masse with the election of the Parti Quebecois and its anti anglo sentiments. I’m sure, if you’re a history buff, you’ve run across ample anti anglo “les autres” statements from Parizeau, Landry, Marios & other notables of that party, so I don’t have to list them here. But then again, if you like, I’ll be more than happy to find a few samples to post here. And no MB, in the 50’s immigration was thriving in Quebec, we were part of that group. When we arrived here Montreal still had a small town quality to it, even though it was the biggest city in Canada; and the richest even then. During the 50’s the economy was in fact growing rapidly as did Montreal because of the immigrants. And again remember, immigrants and anglos were DENIED access to French school. So they had no choice but to learn English. My parents tried to enroll us in French school, because they wanted us to be trilingual (having spent a year in Halifax, we were already fluent in English.

    And the economic opportunities were much poorer in Toronto at that time. Toronto was a real small town back then compared to Montreal. Toronto only started to grow and thrive.. because of the mass exodus after the Parti Quebecois. I know that as well, because by that time I was a stewardess with Air Canada and had been based there. And believe me, it was still a village, from this Montrealer’s point of view. So I would suggest you go and check your sources, because they are way off the mark. I would also be happy to get press clippings for you to confirm – when the mass exodus took place. But why not take a look at the Gazette archives. They ran a story on it just a while ago. And again I never used the word genocide so don’t put false phrases in my mouth. That is very typical of what the anti anglo’s do on any blog and to any blogger who dares to tell the truth. They’ve been doing it since the old BBS days. I often wonder whose payroll they are on. Because they sure aren’t working for a living. If they do, they must not be doing much at work except blogging.

    On that note: here’s a little sample of people seemingly lurking around, spending their days looking for people like me: This comes from the Liberal Party Of Canada Page. Now consider I’ve only been
    posting around 10 days or so… and only 3 days on the Liberal Party page where I asked on March 24th.

    It states:
    THE LIBERAL PARTY OF CANADA IS COMMITTED TO:
    * the pursuit of equality and prosperity for all persons;
    * the enhancement of our unique and diverse multicultural community;
    * the goal of peace and prosperity in our time, and that of our children’s
    * the recognition that English and French are the official languages of Canada; and
    * the promotion of the Canadian identity in a global society

    So does that mean that non francophones in Quebec are going to have their rights and language re-instated? Or is it going to remain a “pursuit of equality and prosperity for all persons… except non francophones – especially anglos in Quebec. Or will the 2,000,000 ‘minority’ of Quebec continue to be sacrificed for the sake of the ‘vote’

    I wonder if I will be banned for daring to write this? have to do it here, because anytime I’ve written to the Party over many years, I’ve never gotten a reply! ”

    I received the following today: Now remember this is the Liberal Party Board Moderator (I’m assuming) and take note of her phrase: “I’ve seen your arguments vomited all over the web…..”
    Now would someone please tell me what this woman is doing chasing my posts all over the web? She as far as I know, supposedly didn’t know I existed until 2 days ago!!! So what’s going on here?

    Barbara-Ann Ryan Pearce wrote
    at 1:58pm
    ” You know what Didi,

    I like to debate, but I refuse to get into a dimwit debate.

    I’ve seen your arguments vomited up all over the web. Your facts are false and I can’t be bothered to pander to ignorance.
    I’ve seen the responses to your posts. Regardless of facts …you still continue to post false facts.
    Sorry Lady……your views are offensive to decent Canadians.

    P.S. I see you are a cowardly poster as well. Don’t sign up so you won’t get kicked off.

    STAY OFF THIS BOARD. ”

    I did reply to her, also asking her to prove me wrong… one of the posts she deleted including the links to this page and another I’ve been posting on. It seems she feels free to insult and slur me, but doesn’t want anyone to see the posts she’s decrying as vomit! Now I’m asking who is this woman and another pal of hers named Gayson… who also seemingly is offended – as an anglo/franco Ontarian
    see his posts and hers and mine here: https://www.liberal.ca/join_e.aspx

    Again note: At least 4 of my posts have been erased including the one where I was responding to Grayson. Beats me, he asked a question I answered. He never saw the answer it was deleted. But he too says he’s offended at my posts on other web sites so I should be removed from the Liberal site.
    Who are these people? Who do they work for? I did ask barbara if she worked for the L’Office de la langues Francais. (She deleted that right away). But what is her and Grayson’s job? And why are they so busy trying to slur people like me?

    And in closing MB, It’s spelled Quebeck in English. That’s how we were taught to spell it in English School.

    But I’m still wondering who the hell are these people who lurk around the net looking for anglos like me. Should I be scared or intimidated again? Naw, am too old for that. Been there many times before during the days I was a real anglo acitivist. You know one of those crazy anglo extremists who dared ask for equal rights.

    • Sorry i made a mistake and posted the wrong Liberal site. The one on where the moderator Barbara is calling me a liar and making personal attacks is: Note: some of my posts have already been deleted – the ones where I ask her to prove me wrong etc….

      http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2204628446&ref=mf

    • The point of my posts is not to support the Quebecer party or the Quebecer Block (Those would be the proper names in English) but to point out that when the English (More properly the Anglophile Canadians) had their chance they made damn sure to do what they could to put down the Francophone Canadians in their jurisdictions and the federal government of the time did little to counter those laws. It does not justify the worst aspect of the language laws in Quebec, not at all !!! Just to make the point the situation you describe is not unique.

      Two wrongs do not make a right but a wrong more often begats another wrong.

      • Hi MB,
        This is where I think it’s important that we all evolve. Anglophone Quebecers in my opinion are probably the most open minded when it comes to the French language. We live with it, we incorporate it into our daily lives. What we are not in agreement with are the many utterances of “Anglo go home”, “La loi 101 ou le 401”, “nous sommes au Quebec, ici on parle francais”, etc…We would just like an inclusive society and no judgement based on our language. Sure we speak different languages however, I’m sure most Anglo’s in Quebec today are bilingual, yet we are sometimes put down due to our English accent. This is what has to change. The efforts we make to learn, speak and incorporate the language, we do not want to be ridiculed, this leads the way to resentment on behalf of Anglophones and does not make for a very good society. That being said, I think it’s time we ALL make efforts to meet one another half way, we are not asking Francophones to adopt the English language, we are asking for inclusion.
        Quebec is home to many Anglophones whose lives and families have been here for hundreds of years, this is our home, we do not wish to move to Ontario etc…We don’t belong there, we belong in Quebec with our families hence the reason why most have learned and incorporated the French language in our lives. Some often forget this fact and deem it very easy to leave, I can assure you, I have, and it’s not easy. I identify with Quebec, not so much the other provinces. I’m sure you can relate with your heritage being from Manitoba? Why don’t we start working on solutions. I believe in a bilingual Canada and would encourage everyone to learn both of Canada’s official languages.

        • I speak 3 languages and come from a family who speak 13 languages in total. If anything, it has opened BIG doors for us, as we can travel the world! If “Quebecers” wish to only speak French and remain in Quebec and only see the limits of their own backyards…all the power to them!
          We should allow them this freedom and pat ourselves on the back for not being like them!
          But as far as education goes, sure…we should all learn French, as it is a part of living in Quebec, but we should be allowed to send our school to French Emersion schools, French as a 2nd language, as it is a 2nd language to us and not our mother-tongue! The reason why I say this, is because many children, who’s primary language at home be English, Chinese, Vietnamese, have a very hard time in an all French school, trying to communicate with their teachers! How can you clearly get your point across, if you do not speak French??? I have had this problem with my son. He was placed into a French school via bill 101 (as I went to French school) but when he was having difficulties, he could not find the words to express himself in French, as he didn’t know the language well enough. Lack of communication made things very difficult for my son and he struggled! I asked his teacher to help him better grasp the French Language, in order to better communicate and this is when she told me flat out: “J’ai 25 autres eleves dans ma classe! Je n’ai pas rien que ca a faire!” then she told me to hire a private tutor!!!
          Hire a private tutor??? At who’s cost? The Quebec Government’s??? Not likely!
          I contacted the Quebec Ministry of Education, as I was completely disgusted with the way my son’s teacher was handling my son’s dilemma and waited forever for a response! I got tired and decided to pull my son out of his French school and place him into a French Emersion School. He would still have French classes and learn French, but he also has the liberty of being able to express himself in a language he better understands. This change alone has made my son’s grades flourish! It also brought his self-esteem up, as he was no longer put-down or ridiculed for having an accent when speaking French (as all his classmates have the same!)
          All in all, I believe that PARENTS should have the right to decide what is BEST for their own child’s unique being! Not all kids are the same! My son’s teacher in his French school went as far as telling me my son should be checked for A.D.D.!!! WHY? Because he has a hard time grasping French??? Please!

        • Hi IC,
          I agree with just about everything you have to say. Too many to count of my friends and family have taken the 401 and not ONE of them wanted to leave, not a one! They were heartbroken over having to leave. They were at the point where they just couldn’t take it anymore. One of my friends and her family – finally made the decision to leave, after she had had her living room window – smashed with the shards of glass narrowly missing the kids – by FLQ supporters – who were upset that she had spoken out publicly. At the time, she had a 10 month old , a 2 year old and a 5 year old in the house – to witness it. That’s when she said, it’s enough. I don’t mind if they come after me, but I will not jeopardize my babies! They were terrified out of the province!
          The 600,000 + who left did not go because they had a sudden urge to travel! They felt forced out! And if that’s not ethnic cleansing, I don’t know what is. Oops, maybe I should say ‘soft ethnic cleansing’ which seems to be more acceptable to the ones who say “How dare you compare it to Bosnia, Germany, Rawanda etc..
          What they fail to mention is – that’s how ethnic cleansing starts. First soft – then hard!

  14. NW,

    My son was in French school this first 4 years. He was one of the ‘only’ English kids in the school at the time. He developed a ‘stutter’ that affected him well into adulthood, as you can well imagine. I pulled him out for the 4th., grade and put him into English school – because by that time his speech impediment – was creating all kinds of damage. (years of speech therapy – shyness – and he’s a gregarious personality – etc..) he went through the bullying etc.. I wanted him to complete at least grade school in French, because like you, our family is multi national and multilingual. But it was torture to see him suffer like that. NO Child should go through that kind of bigotry. Especially when they are there in order to –
    embrace the French culture and language etc… that Jean keeps ‘talking about’. The problem is, it will never be enough.
    Consider, it’s been over 30 years – and the prejudice – and bigotry against the English is even MORE alive and well.
    So instead of the ‘majority’ welcoming ‘les autres’ as they publicly claim it’s resulted in the ‘majority’ believing – discrimination against Quebec non francophones – is normal!
    And sadly, most non francophones have become too frightened to speak up. They feel helpless because none of their political representatives will lift a finger to help them (ex: how many MP’s, MNA’s expressed outrage over what happened with Kyle?).

    And look at what happened to me on the Liberal Facebook page. I was not only flamed… by the ‘moderator’ I’ve been banned from posting and the majority of my posts with factual replies – have been deleted!! Our own reps., are ‘muzzling us’ from letting the ROC know what is really going on here! It’s Canada’s dirty little secret. There is an underlying atmosphere of FEAR of ‘Big brother’ taking ‘some sort of revenge’ on any non franco that ‘dares’ to speak up about it. There is a created and promoted – underlying atmosphere of feeling one has to apologize for being & speaking English in Quebec. Just read some of the posts from Jean…

    I only hope the ROC understands – that if they don’t speak up against this discrimination and denial of equal rights – that it may very well reach their doorsteps and they, like us, won’t know what the hell hit them!

    • I was only an infant when the FLQ came to be. But I will never forget while growing up, my parents telling us kids NOT to dare place a Canadian Flag, on Canada Day, anywhere near our windows or outside on our balcony, as we will have bricks thrown at our home! This fear still lives with me today! How sad is that? I am a first born Canadian, born in Montreal and I am proud to be Canadian Citizen, but I will forever fear to show my pride, unless outside Quebec borders!
      In retrospect, I lived a few years in Vancouver and if we think we have it bad here…try living out there! For the first time in my life, I was called “white honkey trash”! Everywhere I went, I felt uneasy and uncomfortable. Made me truly kiss the ground upon returning home to Montreal!!!
      Politics aside, we live in the greatest city in all of Canada! It just sucks big time, that all of this nonesense has to be part of our daily lives!
      “Il faut vivre et laisser vivre!” – “Live and let live” and our world would be a better place!

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