Macleans.ca liveblog - Canadian Leadership Debate - Day 2 - Macleans.ca
 

Macleans.ca liveblog – Canadian Leadership Debate – Day 2


 
  • 2:59 PM Macleans.ca – Canada’s top political team on the web will be here at 9 PM tonight to provide analysis of tonight’s leadership debate as it happens. Check back often.
  • 8:22 PM Paul Wells – I’ll just note that our liveblog from last night was the ninth Top Post on WordPress — AHEAD of Jack Cafferty and The Page, and nipping at the heels of 2dopeboyz!
  • 8:22 PM Paul Wells – botd.wordpress.com
  • 8:59 PM Aaron Wherry – Greetings from the National Arts Centre. There’s a big poster on the side of the building announcing that Tony Bennett will be here Saturday night for the annual NAC gala.
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  • 9:00 PM Aaron Wherry – And we’re off. And the guys in the press room just turned off the sound.
  • 9:00 PM Martin Patriquin – Harper saying his version of McCain’s ‘the fundamentals of the economy are strong’ on a day when the TSX loses 800 points is not such a hot idea. Discuss.
  • 9:00 PM Kady O’Malley – And hello from the Public Policy Forum debate watching gala, where I am liveblogging amid a throng of bright young political junkies, from a table with its very own bowl of chips and salsa. And a beer.
  • 9:01 PM Aaron Wherry – And we’re back.
  • 9:01 PM Kady O’Malley – Hi, NAC peeps! There’s food here. You?
  • 9:02 PM Kady O’Malley – No sea urchin pendant? Bah. She’s gone Ottawa.
  • 9:02 PM Martin Patriquin – Blue’s nice, I guess.
  • 9:03 PM Kady O’Malley – Elizabeth May has just turned into a generic economist pundit. That was unexpected.
  • 9:04 PM Aaron Wherry – A columnist who shall remain nameless finds Stephane Dion’s English hilarious.
  • 9:04 PM Kady O’Malley – Wait, weren’t they going to mix up the seating plan?
  • 9:04 PM Aaron Wherry – They did.
  • 9:05 PM Kady O’Malley – Somehow, I feel as though I’ve heard those talking points before
  • 9:05 PM Aaron Wherry – So Stephen Harper doesn’t agree with Stephane Dion. I’m shocked.
  • 9:05 PM John Geddes – Harper talks to Dion, Layton talks to the camera.
  • 9:05 PM Martin Patriquin – Harper’s economic platform: Attack the egghead across the table.
  • 9:05 PM Paul Wells – When Paikin called on “Jack Layton,” I thought he was calling on “Czech Lady.” My debate is far more fun than the one you guys are listening to.
  • 9:05 PM Andrew Coyne – May: save the economy by blocking investment, and depressing purchasing power. Greeeattt..
  • 9:05 PM Chris Selley – Layton is talking to ME, not the Camera. And I also heard Czech Lady.
  • 9:05 PM Kady O’Malley – The *real* economy
  • 9:06 PM Andrew Coyne – Ooof: Harper on the attack off the top. “Stephane, you panicked.”
  • 9:06 PM Paul Wells – That can’t be right, because the one who sounds like a Czech lady is Duceppe.
  • 9:06 PM Kady O’Malley – Layton cares about your personal economy.
  • 9:06 PM Kady O’Malley – The invisible hand likes oil companies?
  • 9:06 PM Paul Wells – Duceppe made his first reference to the rich oil companies. Amazing that it took six minutes.
  • 9:07 PM Martin Patriquin – @Paul: Drink!
  • 9:07 PM Chris Selley – Nothing to do with nothing to do with doing nothing. Nothing!
  • 9:07 PM Kady O’Malley – Wasn’t Harper beside May yesterday? Or did I hallucinate that?
  • 9:07 PM John Geddes – You have an option, sir.
  • 9:08 PM Kady O’Malley – I’d just like to note that Andrew Potter is sitting behind me, dropping bons mots and quips like snowflakes. Or nacho crumbs.
  • 9:08 PM John Geddes – The Wall Street crisis is not a government balance sheet issue.
  • 9:08 PM Aaron Wherry – Elizabeth May is reminding Stephen Harper why he didn’t want her their in the first place.
  • 9:08 PM Andrew Coyne – May; Where’s your platform! Exactly…
  • 9:08 PM Kady O’Malley – Harper has that smile again.
  • 9:08 PM Paul Wells – Harper is actually correct: in a lot of big ways, Canada’s fiscal management has been very different from the US’ in the last several years. I remember Jean Chrétien made precisely that point in a speech in Chicago, and our colleague Christie Blatchford tore a strip off him for being rude to the Yankees.
  • 9:09 PM Aaron Wherry – Harper’s sitting up straighter. That’s leadership.
  • 9:09 PM Kady O’Malley – Crowd loved that: “You don’t care, or you’re incompetent.”
  • 9:09 PM Andrew Coyne – Layton: Either you don’t care or you’re incompetent… So I guess we’re no longer eschewing the personal attacks…
  • 9:10 PM Aaron Wherry – When were we eschewing the personal attacks?
  • 9:10 PM Paul Wells – Well, he DID give the PM a choice, Andrew…
  • 9:10 PM Chris Selley – What, you think think there’s a third option or something?
  • 9:10 PM Kady O’Malley – While we were sleeping.
  • 9:10 PM John Geddes – Layton didn’t like those stories saying Dion was more aggressive yesterday.
  • 9:10 PM Kady O’Malley – So the rich oil companies and the manufacturing sector are at war?
  • 9:10 PM Chris Selley – Jack Layton doesn’t care about families who work for oil companies. There, I said it.
  • 9:10 PM Martin Patriquin – Duceppe talking about Canada as a whole. Delicious.
  • 9:11 PM Kady O’Malley – Well, the working ones. Not the soul-sucking ones.
  • 9:11 PM Andrew Coyne – You’d never know we had unemployment of 6.1% (30-year low) an employment rate of 63.4% (all-time high), etc.
  • 9:11 PM Paul Wells – On the monitor we’re watching in the English press room, every single one of them is wearing bright makeup like Oompah Loompahs. I greatly fear our friend Paikin is about to turn into a blueberry.
  • 9:12 PM Aaron Wherry – Yes, look at the markets.
  • 9:13 PM Kady O’Malley – Andrew Potter wonders, “What about the farmers?”
  • 9:13 PM Chris Selley – Phew. It’s a good thing Harper didn’t say people aren’t worried about their jobs and houses, I’d say. Wait, what’s Elizabeth May on about…?
  • 9:13 PM Kady O’Malley – I keep mistaking the red Maple Leaf for a Red Cross.
  • 9:13 PM Chris Selley – Or did I just miss it?
  • 9:14 PM Martin Patriquin – Just out of interest, and I’m asking because I don’t know, but do political leaders often push for a lower dollar, as opposed to higher productivity?
  • 9:15 PM Kady O’Malley – Hey, Dion has picked up on the “laissez faire” meme
  • 9:15 PM Chris Selley – So… because Chretien and Martin made our banks stable, we should pretend they aren’t?
  • 9:15 PM Martin Patriquin – You’re right, Stephane. Paul Martin never wanted bank mergers. [end sarcasm]
  • 9:15 PM Andrew Coyne – Harper’s completely right, but politics and journalism are not kind to the “things are on balance okayl” message. He needs a tax-cutting, market-opening message — do-something not do-nothing.
  • 9:15 PM Kady O’Malley – Duceppe gets the green star.
  • 9:15 PM Kady O’Malley – (For bringing up the K word)
  • 9:16 PM John Geddes – This is Harper’s best moment. Specifics.
  • 9:16 PM Andrew Coyne – Laissez-faire, don’t care?!?! They’re spending more than any govenrment in the history of the universe!
  • 9:16 PM Andrew Coyne – Okay, Canada.
  • 9:17 PM Kady O’Malley – My audience is bored. I mean, they’re paying attention in a polite way, but really, they’re waiting for everyone to compliment the person to their right.
  • 9:17 PM Kady O’Malley – Or sneaking over to watch the Palin/Biden debate in the next room.
  • 9:17 PM Chris Selley – From Harper’s 1997 speech that May mentioned: “In terms of the unemployed, of which we have over a million-and-a-half, don’t feel particularly bad for many of these people. They don’t feel bad about it themselves, as long as they’re receiving generous social assistance and unemployment insurance.”
  • 9:17 PM Aaron Wherry – Did Jack Layton just compliment Elizabeth May? And how is it that Harper is getting hammered by Layton and May on the economy?
  • 9:18 PM John Geddes – Talking about the OECD all the time is “real people in the real economy ?
  • 9:18 PM Andrew Coyne – Wouldn’t it be nice if there were a party to the free-market side of Harper? Somebody to criticize him for spending too much, not too little? Somebody to contradict the NDP/Bloc/Green wackos?
  • 9:18 PM Paul Wells – I went offline for a bit, grrr, but I was trying to make the point Coyne made: Canada’s situation is indeed stronger than in the US, but “It’s not so bad” is a very difficult hill to defend.
  • 9:18 PM Kady O’Malley – May clearly has it in her head to establish herself as more than just a hippie earthmommy type
  • 9:18 PM Martin Patriquin – @ Wherry: He did. Gives you an idea of how he feels about the threat from the Greens.
  • 9:18 PM Kady O’Malley – And has transformed into a Catherine Swiftian type.
  • 9:19 PM John Geddes – Again, Harper is good when he narrows the focus.
  • 9:19 PM Martin Patriquin – Duceppe has been louder than I thought. Not sure why that is.
  • 9:20 PM Kady O’Malley – Andrew Potter asks: Since when are the poor so popular?
  • 9:20 PM Chris Selley – I wonder how much having released a platform–any platform–would have shielded Harper against this do-nothing/no ideas charge.
  • 9:20 PM Chris Selley – Probably not much.
  • 9:20 PM Andrew Coyne – At last! Jack goes after Dion.
  • 9:20 PM John Geddes – Did Layton just go after Dion for “adding a tax”?
  • 9:20 PM Martin Patriquin –
  • 9:21 PM Martin Patriquin – @ Coyne: How about this guy?
  • 9:21 PM Kady O’Malley – The permanent tax on everything.
  • 9:21 PM Kady O’Malley – oooh, Martin just escalated the liveblog arms race.
  • 9:21 PM Chris Selley – Scandinavia reference! Drink!
  • 9:21 PM Aaron Wherry – Dion to Layton: You’re Swedish. (Ouch.)
  • 9:22 PM Paul Wells – I’d suggest that in some ways there is a party to the free-market side of Harper, and it’s led by the geeky prof with the sylin’ new glasses, Andrew.
  • 9:22 PM Andrew Coyne – “Strategic investments in technology..” God forbid the auto companies could invest on their own account.
  • 9:23 PM Kady O’Malley – The first Just The Facts of the evening is out!
  • 9:23 PM Martin Patriquin – Please share.
  • 9:23 PM Kady O’Malley – It politely suggests that the Official Opposition Leader reacquaint himself with the last budget.
  • 9:24 PM Andrew Coyne – “We need to bring the manufacturing sector back.’ Also the horse-and-buggy industry…
  • 9:24 PM Chris Selley – Elizabeth May wants a revitalized pulp and paper industry. That’s interesting. (Looking up Green platform…)
  • 9:24 PM Kady O’Malley – Wait, I just realized that the Liberals were out of the gates first with a series entitled “Harpernomics”
  • 9:24 PM Paul Wells – A note about how Ottawa works: our colleagues next door in the French press room were polled on whether they preferred the live English feed or the French-language simultaneous translation. They overwhelmingly picked the live feed. ‘Cause they’re bilingual, I’m saying.
  • 9:24 PM John Geddes – Not the raw logs. Please, no.
  • 9:25 PM Martin Patriquin – May’s point about family’s and Fort Mac is salient, given the percentage of Newfoundland fathers that live there.
  • 9:25 PM Andrew Coyne – “We shouldn’t be shipping raw logs.” Take that, BC logging industry: what do you know about your business compared to Jack?
  • 9:25 PM John Geddes – Newfoundland miners in Red Lake, Ont.’s gold mines made $200 K last year. You can fly home a few times on that.
  • 9:25 PM Aaron Wherry – In Windsor, this question translates as: Will there still be a town here in five years?
  • 9:26 PM Kady O’Malley – Steve Paikin is being pretty laid back as far as letting them go at it.
  • 9:26 PM John Geddes – Can’t the ribs industry in Windsor pick up the slack?
  • 9:26 PM Paul Wells – Dion: We have the most talentuous people in the world. Surprising that Dion is seeking, or being granted, quite a bit more speaking time tonight than last night. And his English is quite strong.
  • 9:26 PM Martin Patriquin – Harper has accomplished the impossible: he is actually more of a pin cushion than last night. And no language barrier to, uhh, pin it on.
  • 9:26 PM Aaron Wherry – Shout out to the Tunnel Bar-B-Q.
  • 9:27 PM Chris Selley – The TBBQ will be the last business to close, I imagine.
  • 9:27 PM Kady O’Malley – He has that tone. The barely concealed contempt one. It works devastatingly well once every ten times he breaks it out.
  • 9:27 PM Martin Patriquin – @Geddes: True, but that means dad’s gone much of the year. Not so family values if you ask me.
  • 9:27 PM Aaron Wherry – Breaking news from the Globe! Harper to aim debate performance at women!… So ladies, how you like him now?
  • 9:28 PM Kady O’Malley – Ooh! I get to answer that one!
  • 9:28 PM Kady O’Malley – Uh, no comment.
  • 9:28 PM Kady O’Malley – Really, though? This is supposed to appeal to women?
  • 9:28 PM Martin Patriquin – Ducuppe’s stumped pretty huge on his Buy Canada Act on the campaign trail. It’s surreal.
  • 9:29 PM Andrew Coyne – This is what comes of ridding yourself of any ideological basis: when you are attacked, you have no philosophical counter-argument, no grounds for justifying your course.
  • 9:29 PM Aaron Wherry – “The voters who are more in play for us tend to be women .. And we think we have more potential to go there, so we think if you come across as harsh and argumentative, you’re less appealing to them,” a Conservative source said. “You may get more cheers from your respective war rooms but it doesn’t mean you’re doing the right thing for women who are quite turned off by that over partisan approach.”
  • 9:29 PM Chris Selley – Elizabeth May supports theCanadian arms industry.
  • 9:29 PM Kady O’Malley – For *hugging*!
  • 9:29 PM Andrew Coyne – Harper could offer a million counter-arguments to the nonsense these idiots are spouting, but that would require him to step out of his “pragmatic” guise….
  • 9:30 PM Kady O’Malley – I wonder if that Conservative source was a man or a woman.
  • 9:30 PM John Geddes – Harris/Decima said on Sept. 27 the NDP was picking up a lot of urban women. Dion needs them back.
  • 9:30 PM Kady O’Malley – (That’s an entirely relevant question, given the context. I am not a sexist!)
  • 9:31 PM Kady O’Malley – WHEN HAS HE EVER BEEN BETWEEN JOBS?
  • 9:31 PM John Geddes – “I’ve been between jobs.” That’s a mistake.
  • 9:31 PM Kady O’Malley – Between think tank and party leadership?
  • 9:31 PM Aaron Wherry – Oh. Snap.
  • 9:31 PM Martin Patriquin – After Coffee Time, and just before Hooter’s.
  • 9:31 PM Chris Selley – WAY better joke if he was wearing a sweater, Jack.
  • 9:31 PM Paul Wells – Knockout punch!
  • 9:31 PM Paul Wells – I kid.
  • 9:32 PM Andrew Coyne – Good, you had me worried for a second…
  • 9:32 PM John Geddes – I think it was the Royal Bank’s chief economist who said a deficit would be a good option to keep open right now.
  • 9:32 PM Kady O’Malley – I thought that phrase automatically got you kicked out of ScribbleLive
  • 9:33 PM Andrew Coyne – Dion just fibbed. They will raise taxes $40-billion, and only cut them $26-billion.
  • 9:33 PM Martin Patriquin – @Geddes: I’ve heard that before. Why?
  • 9:33 PM Aaron Wherry – The English press room is loving Snarky Jack.
  • 9:33 PM Chris Selley – Manfred von Vulte!
  • 9:33 PM Paul Wells – Stephen Harper between jobs: (a) Tory staffer to Reform strategist; (b) Reform strategist to Reform candidate; (c) Disgruntled MP to think-tank/lobby guy; (d) reverse of (c); and that’s about it so far.
  • 9:33 PM Kady O’Malley – andrew potter here, filling in for kady while she gets a red bull. What’d I miss??
  • 9:34 PM Andrew Coyne – It’s an irrational taboo to say you would never run a deficit, and as irrational taboos go, I favour it: after the first one, the second becomes that much easier, and the third, and the fourth…
  • 9:34 PM Martin Patriquin – Shut it, Selley. He’s my cousin.
  • 9:34 PM Andrew Coyne – At last a question that does not involve massive expansion of the state!
  • 9:34 PM John Geddes – @Patriquin. If I mention Keynes I’m afraid of what Coyne might do…
  • 9:35 PM Paul Wells – over at the buzzz.tv dial groups, there are 455 people online, and they are not fond of one of these leaders.
  • 9:35 PM Andrew Coyne – Harper admits his GHG plan would impose costs!
  • 9:35 PM Aaron Wherry – Coyne, here’s where you plug your magazine story.
  • 9:35 PM Kady O’Malley – hey chinanello, get off your husband’s computer!
  • 9:35 PM Chris Selley – Everyone, shhh. Jack’s talking to me again.
  • 9:35 PM John Geddes – @O’Malley that’s a very inside joke
  • 9:35 PM Andrew Coyne – “Big polluters”. Drink!
  • 9:36 PM Kady O’Malley – kady’s back. Thanks, you’ve been great! -ap
  • 9:36 PM Aaron Wherry – I hope you’re watching from your kitchen table Selley.
  • 9:36 PM Kady O’Malley – Oh, thank goodness. The economy section is over.
  • 9:37 PM Andrew Coyne – Great moment for May.
  • 9:37 PM Kady O’Malley – Andrew Potter points out that they aren’t actually talking about things like the internet. Technology. Dot com 2.0!
  • 9:38 PM Martin Patriquin – May: Yes! This is EXACTLY what needs to be said. It’s not the economy or the environment. It’s both.
  • 9:38 PM Andrew Coyne – Harper’s right on the tax credits — except the Tories have played the same game (of claiming tax credits as tax cuts), so he can’t really drive the point home.
  • 9:38 PM Aaron Wherry – 40 is not twice as big a number as 26. Just saying.
  • 9:39 PM John Geddes – Dion needed this moment.
  • 9:39 PM Kady O’Malley – My room liked that Dion moment. I heard claps.
  • 9:40 PM Paul Wells – I liked the bit where E. May points at Harper with her pinkie finger. “And neither will yours.”
  • 9:41 PM Andrew Coyne – “Not to impose taxes on people, it is to make companies pay.” Stephen Layton.
  • 9:41 PM Kady O’Malley – What is the difference between a tax, and making a company pay money into a fund?
  • 9:41 PM Kady O’Malley – Layton gets the Bush award!
  • 9:41 PM Chris Selley – Duceppe keeps yammering on about this 1.2% drop in emissions even as he plumps for Kyoto. Remind me – what were our actual Kyoto targets? Rather more ambitious, methinks.
  • 9:42 PM Chris Selley – Jack! Jack! Over here!
  • 9:42 PM Andrew Coyne – Harper could OWN this debate. He could be the only candidate defending a free market approach. But because he’s abandoned that, he can only bleat, we agree, but we’d do less than you would.
  • 9:43 PM Martin Patriquin – Having four opponents ganging up on you is better than just one ganging up on you.
  • 9:44 PM Kady O’Malley – There’s one May/Harper camera angle that is particularly unfortunate for the latter.
  • 9:44 PM Aaron Wherry – Is Elizabeth May winning this debate?
  • 9:44 PM Chris Selley – Territoriality means you work together. Thanks for clearing that up, Ms. May.
  • 9:44 PM John Geddes – May is scoring all over the place.
  • 9:45 PM Kady O’Malley – CARBON DIOXIDE IS NOT POLLUTION. HUMANS DON’T EXHALE POLLUTION. -potter
  • 9:45 PM Paul Wells – I’m finding Elizabeth May quite strong, and partly because she’s not proposing much policy, which would lead to her proposing some of the Bad Policies
    I don’t like so much. She’s quite crisply explaining the issues instead.
  • 9:45 PM Aaron Wherry – Duceppe used his water glass as a metaphor for an oil barrel. Then he drank from that glass. Make of this what you will.
  • 9:45 PM Paul Wells – Richard Peregrino!
  • 9:46 PM Kady O’Malley – DAMNIT
  • 9:46 PM Andrew Coyne – Drink!
  • 9:46 PM Kady O’Malley – I nearly called that.
  • 9:46 PM Chris Selley – I reject Potter’s logic. Carbon dioxide can KILL YOU!
  • 9:46 PM John Geddes – Now Harper lowers the temperature.
  • 9:46 PM Martin Patriquin – @Wherry: You ever see ‘Three Kings’?
  • 9:46 PM Paul Wells – Whenever I have an expanding Nahani, my trainer makes me do more cardio.
  • 9:46 PM Kady O’Malley – May is killing this room.
  • 9:46 PM John Geddes – Heath care? That’s not an election issue!
  • 9:47 PM Paul Wells – Where’s your room, Kady?
  • 9:47 PM Aaron Wherry – Ice Cube’s finest performance.
  • 9:47 PM Kady O’Malley – Public Policy Forum
  • 9:47 PM Kady O’Malley – it’s a debate-watching forum
  • 9:47 PM Kady O’Malley – sponsored by the Canadian Association of Brewers
  • 9:47 PM Paul Wells – A rich gala of public policy, one might almost say.
  • 9:47 PM Kady O’Malley – or is it the Canadian Brewers Association? I forget.
  • 9:47 PM Kady O’Malley – it IS.
  • 9:48 PM Kady O’Malley – Potter – who is here in tails – wonders where you are, Wells.
  • 9:48 PM Aaron Wherry – Journalists are now taking pictures of other journalists watching the debate in the press room. One of these picture-taking journalists may or may not be named Paul Wells.
  • 9:48 PM Chris Selley – Aboriginal people! Gilles Duceppe, ladies and gentlemen!
  • 9:49 PM John Geddes – I believe it’s the Brewer’s Association of Canada Liberation Front.
  • 9:49 PM Chris Selley – No! Wait! Keep talking about that!
  • 9:49 PM Chris Selley – Damn.
  • 9:49 PM Paul Wells – English media room. If I’d gotten here in time, I could have gone next door to the French media room, where it’s a bit cozier — and where our colleagues are listening to the live English feed because they didn’t want to suffer through translation.
  • 9:49 PM Kady O’Malley – Is there uproarious laughter?
  • 9:49 PM Paul Wells – What did you want more of, Selley?
  • 9:49 PM Kady O’Malley – And/or chips and salsa?
  • 9:49 PM Paul Wells – Thankfully no.
  • 9:49 PM John Geddes – Why do we need to worry about doctors’ student debts again?
  • 9:50 PM Chris Selley – @Wells: Aboriginal issues. I realize it’s a health question, and not an election issue. But a guy can dream.
  • 9:50 PM Martin Patriquin – Hands up: Who here actually has a family doctor?
  • 9:50 PM Kady O’Malley – i do, actually
  • 9:50 PM John Geddes – I
  • 9:50 PM Chris Selley – Me.
  • 9:50 PM Kady O’Malley – and it wasn’t even that hard to find her. i looked on the ontario society of physicians website.
  • 9:50 PM Aaron Wherry – Me too.
  • 9:51 PM John Geddes – Mine interviewed our family to see if we were suitable.
  • 9:51 PM Chris Selley – Malapropism from Layton! Drink!
  • 9:51 PM Aaron Wherry – And she still accepted you?
  • 9:51 PM Martin Patriquin – Man, you Ontario folk are lucky.
  • 9:51 PM John Geddes – The way Jack’s going at him is incredulous.
  • 9:52 PM Chris Selley – Take it up with Duceppe, Patriquin.
  • 9:52 PM Paul Wells – I believe there’s a rule that only the Conservatives are allowed to raise their opponents’ embarrassing former policies. Layton is completely breaking that rule. Harper ran the NCC? Ancient history.
  • 9:52 PM Kady O’Malley – Layton looks peeved.
  • 9:52 PM Andrew Coyne – Layon used the Shouldice clinic!
  • 9:52 PM Macleans.ca – @Martin, you can edit your posts (as long as it’s your own)
  • 9:52 PM Kady O’Malley – Also, that line is such crap — all federal politicians can, if necessary, make use of the National Defence health care clinics
  • 9:53 PM Andrew Coyne – Paikin! Paikin! Paikin!
  • 9:53 PM Paul Wells – Steve Paikin is channelling Andrew Coyne. Vast media conspiracy, right there.
  • 9:53 PM Kady O’Malley – Which are just as good.
  • 9:53 PM Chris Selley – Prove your commitment to the healthcare system! Cut off your arm!
  • 9:53 PM Martin Patriquin – A guy I knew went to Shouldice and shared a room with a Saudi prince who was paying the full shot.
  • 9:54 PM Kady O’Malley – Elizabeth May will set us straight.
  • 9:55 PM Martin Patriquin – www.shouldice.com

    Looks pretty swank — in that it is’nt mold-infested.

  • 9:55 PM John Geddes – May’s losing me here.
  • 9:55 PM Paul Wells – Oh my. IMF and Nafta are destroying our health system. I’m afraid Ms. May is not to the right of Stephen Harper, Andrew.
  • 9:55 PM Andrew Coyne – Paikin! Paikin! Paikin!
  • 9:56 PM Andrew Coyne – May is an extremist on this issue.
  • 9:56 PM Chris Selley – Paikin!
  • 9:56 PM Andrew Coyne – Paikin! Paikin! Paikin!
  • 9:56 PM John Geddes – This is a distraction. May’s having her own little debate.
  • 9:56 PM Kady O’Malley – When does the bell ring for the next topic?
  • 9:56 PM Kady O’Malley – Hey, who is winning?
  • 9:56 PM Paul Wells – Paikin is far more interventionist, and policy-based, than Stéphan Bureau was last night. I think both of them are huge assets to Canadian journalism, but so far Paikin’s having a better night.
  • 9:56 PM Chris Selley – Anyone want to comment on the constitutional implications of installing Steve Paikin as an unelected speaker of the House of Commons?
  • 9:57 PM Andrew Coyne – “Fiscal imbalacne is not settled.” And the demands ratched up again.
  • 9:57 PM Martin Patriquin – My call: May, Dion second, Layton close third.
  • 9:57 PM John Geddes – Dion’s bringing it back to something that’s actually a live federal policy issue. Whew.
  • 9:58 PM Aaron Wherry – Democracy is winning.
  • 9:58 PM Chris Selley – I wonder if Duceppe quietly fumes and interjects in his sleep.
  • 9:58 PM John Geddes – Once
    again, Harper tries to shift from big issues to small policies.
  • 9:58 PM Paul Wells – I think Harper is showing real agility in defending his side and his tone and manner are not off-putting. With the others quadruple-teaming him, though, defence is the only game he can play. It limits his ability to make yards. But then, he’s about 10 points up on the next guy, so I remain to be persuaded that it makes a huge difference.
  • 9:59 PM Kady O’Malley – Well, he doesn’t have a platform.
  • 9:59 PM Andrew Coyne – Duceppe: I’m a special interest!
  • 9:59 PM Chris Selley – Gosh, I hope this arts segment is as edifying as last night’s.
  • 9:59 PM Kady O’Malley – How are the dial-beings responding?
  • 9:59 PM Aaron Wherry – Duceppe’s father was a comedian?
  • 10:00 PM Kady O’Malley – I actually knew that, yeah.
  • 10:00 PM Kady O’Malley – a famous one, even.
  • 10:00 PM Paul Wells – Comedian=actor. Jean Duceppe.
  • 10:00 PM Andrew Coyne – The fact that an industry has a lot of people in it does not make the case for subsidy.
  • 10:00 PM Andrew Coyne – Nbodoy proposed censoring movies, Elizabeth.
  • 10:00 PM Paul Wells – Kady I’m not gonna say much about the dial group while it’s happening. But I’m keeping an eye on it.
  • 10:00 PM Kady O’Malley – Elizabeth May has downloaded a ninety second answer for every one of the top issues into her memory.
  • 10:00 PM Martin Patriquin – “My father was a well-known ‘comedian’.” His father was a well-known ‘actor.” It’s a weird translation that no French Canadian has ever been able to explain to me.
  • 10:01 PM Andrew Coyne – This is bilge! Art is Good is not an argument for subsidy!
  • 10:01 PM Aaron Wherry – Dion loves the music of Jacques Brel. I don’t know why I find that interesting. But there you go.
  • 10:02 PM Aaron Wherry – The Conservatives have not increased funding to the arts. The Globe checked this. Go look it up.
  • 10:03 PM Kady O’Malley – hey kadys eating pizza so I (potter) am back for a minute.
  • 10:03 PM Andrew Coyne – In other countries, culture is the expression of the nation. Only in Canada do we pretend it’s the other way around.
  • 10:03 PM Chris Selley – The average artist makes $10-12 grand a year? Anyone know where Layton’s getting that?
  • 10:03 PM Kady O’Malley – Question: Where is the subsidy for parents of kids who play first person shooters all day. Seriously. You could charge it to the military training budget.
  • 10:04 PM Andrew Coyne – Paikin? Resolved: Conservatives are Barbarians?
  • 10:05 PM Andrew Coyne – There could be a fascinating philosophical debate here, but only one side has showed up.
  • 10:06 PM Kady O’Malley – @coyne: Some say that about macleans.ca
  • 10:07 PM Chris Selley – Right, Mr. Harper. It’s the responsibility for a government to identify ineffective arts programs… and to issue press release attacking those who availed themselves of them, in some cases unbeknownst to them, on purely ideological grounds.
  • 10:07 PM Martin Patriquin – It’s not that he hates the arts. It’s that he doesn’t particularly care. Wish he would just admit it.
  • 10:07 PM Kady O’Malley – Okay, Potter has been booted from the chair.
  • 10:08 PM Chris Selley – THANK YOU, Ms. May.
  • 10:08 PM Chris Selley – May’s winning.
  • 10:08 PM Aaron Wherry – Dion promises more fun. Just try to vote against that.
  • 10:08 PM Kady O’Malley – I find myself powerless to resist the fun promise.
  • 10:09 PM Chris Selley – “More fun” was a stroke of genius from Dion. Me like.
  • 10:09 PM Paul Wells – I have to say every one of these people around the table is more relaxed, thoughtful and surprising than McCain and Obama allowed themselves to be last week. To say the least, Canadian debates are not always sterling examples of …of…whatever they’re supposed to be, but last night and tonight are going fairly well, methinks.
  • 10:09 PM Andrew Coyne – “There’s no ideological agenda there.” Agreed. But you’re going to get whacked as if there was anyway. So you might as well.
  • 10:10 PM Martin Patriquin – A vote for the Conservatives is a vote against fun. And puppies.
  • 10:10 PM John Geddes – Harper sounds solid on what was a dangerous topic for him.
  • 10:10 PM Kady O’Malley – Well, he feels less uncomfortable than he did in French, I think
  • 10:10 PM Chris Selley – @Coyne: So going after Gwynne Dyer and Avi Lewis was just marketing? Not ideology?
  • 10:10 PM Kady O’Malley – on this issue, that is.
  • 10:10 PM Kady O’Malley – Wait, Stephen Harper wants to give artists’ money to the banks?
  • 10:11 PM Chris Selley – Well, there’s the most specious question of the night.
  • 10:11 PM Kady O’Malley – My room did not think much of that question.
  • 10:11 PM Andrew Coyne – A Conservative plant?
  • 10:11 PM Kady O’Malley – Although we did appreciate the heartfelt “Good evening!”
  • 10:11 PM John Geddes – I think Harper won the arts segment. He sounded reasonable. Can’t imagine many viewers thinking he was an ideological enemy of culture.
  • 10:12 PM Kady O’Malley – Geddes – Too bad it wasn’t in French.
  • 10:12 PM Paul Wells – Google says our questioner has no google-able party allegiance.
  • 10:12 PM Aaron Wherry – Some of Stephen Harper’s best friends are artists!
  • 10:13 PM Martin Patriquin – @Wherry: Yeah, really. I love artists! My wife’s cousin’s one of them!
  • 10:13 PM Chris Selley – @Patriquin: How much money does your wife’s cousin make?
  • 10:14 PM Andrew Coyne – Handguns are banned!
  • 10:14 PM Kady O’Malley – Didn’t we agree to ban them *again* last night, thought?
  • 10:14 PM Martin Patriquin – Handguns have been banned for decades.
  • 10:14 PM Kady O’Malley – We need a booster ban.
  • 10:14 PM Aaron Wherry – I said it last night, but Jack’s exceeding himself tonight. Every single issue of any importance is somehow relatable to his life or the life of someone he knows. Jack is us. We are Jack. Bra. Vo.
  • 10:15 PM Martin Patriquin – @Selley: That’s what Harper said. ‘My wife’s cousin is one of them.’
  • 10:15 PM Chris Selley – At least two and probably all three of the shootings Layton mentioned would have involved smuggled guns.
  • 10:15 PM Chris Selley – @Patriquin: Oh.
  • 10:17 PM Andrew Coyne – Good moment for Harper there – on an issue where I’m to the left of him…
  • 10:17 PM Martin Patriquin – Harper’s ‘soft on crime’ stuff is so b
    loody cynical. Violent crime has been going down for something like 15 years.
  • 10:18 PM John Geddes – Not youth violent crime, though.
  • 10:18 PM Paul Wells – Fun Harper biographical fact: When he ran in Calgary for his return to Parliament in 2002, he skipped all-candidates meetings (where his only half-prominentopponent would have been the New Democrat, because Libs and PC didn’t run against him). I wonder whether, when his eyes glaze over tonight, he’s dreaming of whatever he did back then when he wasn’t at the debates.
  • 10:18 PM Aaron Wherry – Crime has been going down. Violent crime is up. If I’m not mistaken. John?
  • 10:18 PM Chris Selley – The Liberals, for the record, promise to cut 1.8% of governmetn spending through identifying waste. Hopefully none of that will involve anything even REMOTELY positive like literacy or arts. Hopefully it will be programs that, I don’t know, torture babies.
  • 10:19 PM Andrew Coyne – The reason Harper’s good on this section is because he’s actually saying stuff he believes.
  • 10:19 PM Kady O’Malley – Wells – Was that when he was “between jobs”?
  • 10:19 PM Aaron Wherry – Coyne with the most damning statement of the evening.
  • 10:20 PM Chris Selley –
  • 10:20 PM Andrew Coyne – Selley ftw!
  • 10:20 PM Macleans.ca – okay, but isn’t that going downishH?
  • 10:20 PM Martin Patriquin – That line is going southward, yes?
  • 10:20 PM Aaron Wherry – I am mistaken.
  • 10:21 PM Kady O’Malley – down is still down, and not up?
  • 10:21 PM John Geddes – Youth violent crime, up. The most serious assaults, up. Overall crime, especially property crime, down. Less serious violent crime, including common assaults, down. All signs suggest violence is worse among the most vulnerable people. But most people, including all of us, are safer.
  • 10:21 PM Chris Selley – Yeah, but guys, look to the left of the graph…
  • 10:21 PM Aaron Wherry – I am not entirely mistaken.
  • 10:21 PM Andrew Coyne – I love it when Paikin calls bullshit. Politely.
  • 10:22 PM Chris Selley – So that’s aboriginals as props in the healthcare question and props in the crime question. How about their own question?
  • 10:22 PM Aaron Wherry – Layton’s head is orange. Good branding.
  • 10:23 PM John Geddes – I have asked the Justice department for their research on sentencing patterns, and they admit they’ve got nothing. So this stuff about judges being soft seems to be mostly anecdotal.
  • 10:23 PM Aaron Wherry – And by anecdotal, John means imaginary.
  • 10:24 PM Kady O’Malley – My room gave that round to Layton.
  • 10:24 PM Aaron Wherry – Lots of “oohhhs” from the press room.
  • 10:24 PM Kady O’Malley – To that question?
  • 10:24 PM Martin Patriquin – Are they supposed to be directing questions straight to one single politician?
  • 10:24 PM Aaron Wherry – To Layton’s line.
  • 10:25 PM Kady O’Malley – meanwhile, over at Palin v Biden, Biden said (a propos of something) that “I am a member of the Senate, and I live in a beautiful home.”Imagine if a Canadian MP said that… (apotter wrote this)
  • 10:26 PM Kady O’Malley – Kady, for the record, is not wandering over to the Palin room.
  • 10:26 PM John Geddes – Does anybody have any idea what it’s going to be like in Afghanistan three years from now? Are we saying we’re gone no matter what, even if President Obama asks us to stay?
  • 10:27 PM Paul Wells – The problem with Harper’s argument — that Afghanistan will only stand up if ISAF stands down — is that Canada can’t stand down on behalf of ISAF. If Harper believes Afghanistan needs a date certain for a multilateral withdrawal, he needs to have been lobbying other ISAF contributors for their own commitments to pull out in 2011. By Harper’s logic — a word I abuse by employing it here — it does no good for Canadian soldiers to withdraw if American, British, French or Central European soldiers replace them.
  • 10:27 PM Aaron Wherry – Selley… The NDP’s put out a fact check saying the average salary of an artist in Canada is 23,500. They say Layton said it was around 20,000.
  • 10:28 PM Chris Selley – Thanks, Wherry. In keeping of the theme of the evening, would it be wrong of me to blame their poverty on the Liberals?
  • 10:28 PM Andrew Coyne – Paikin! Paikin! Paikin!
  • 10:29 PM Chris Selley – Harper: “If we never leave, will the job ever get done?” Uhhh…
  • 10:29 PM Kady O’Malley – Okay, Potter and I can’t even decide what “winning” and “losing” mean. So who is doing which?
  • 10:30 PM Paul Wells – Harper has a defensible answer, but only if all NATO troops withdraw together! But again, there is nobody to his “right,” urging for an open-ended mission. So Dion, and now Layton, are left to argue that he actually WILL leave troops in on an open-ended basis.
  • 10:31 PM Chris Selley – Dion: “You don’t leave Afghanistan as you leave a camping.” A good point. A good, bilingual point.
  • 10:31 PM Paul Wells – Duceppe! Duceppe! (An EXTREMELY limited endorsement).
  • 10:31 PM Aaron Wherry – Did Harper just say Iraq was an error?
  • 10:32 PM Chris Selley – Shhhh!
  • 10:32 PM Aaron Wherry – When did he come to that realization?
  • 10:32 PM Martin Patriquin – He did. He’s said it before, though.
  • 10:32 PM Kady O’Malley – That nearly got interesting!
  • 10:32 PM John Geddes – @Wherry Only the WMD part.
  • 10:32 PM Paul Wells – Yes, I believe he did. A sort of virgin-birth error, not made by anyone, and yet it came into existence somehow.
  • 10:32 PM Andrew Coyne – Duceppe is effective at the question gambit. Harper makes the mistake of answering.
  • 10:33 PM Aaron Wherry – No… No… let’s not move on from that Ms. May.
  • 10:33 PM John Geddes – May is getting into legalisms now.
  • 10:33 PM Andrew Coyne – It’s okay — it makes her look grounded.
  • 10:33 PM Aaron Wherry – Selley… I kid you not, the NDP war room has just emailed me asking that you check your email.
  • 10:34 PM Kady O’Malley – The NDP has also begun factchecking the National Post.
  • 10:34 PM Chris Selley – Ha. Away I go.
  • 10:34 PM Kady O’Malley – The calls are coming from inside the house!
  • 10:34 PM Paul Wells – OK, weirdly Dion is more realistic on Afghanistan than Harper is. Dion extends to 2011 “to prepare the rotation” — i.e., as a member of a large coalition. Harper extends to 2011 so Afghanistan can manage without any outside troops. Which is a decision no Canadian prime minister can make or even much influ
    ence.
  • 10:35 PM Chris Selley – Regarding artists’ salaries, Ian Capstick refers us to the Canada Council.
  • 10:36 PM John Geddes – “I’m encouraging them to work toward similar goals” You’re right, Paul. He wants everybody out in 2011.
  • 10:36 PM Chris Selley – Regarding smuggled handguns, Ian Capstick refers us to the NDP’s plan to crack down on smuggled handguns.
  • 10:36 PM Martin Patriquin – Dion: “I want my Canada back.” Oddly similar to this guy: www.galganov.com
  • 10:37 PM Kady O’Malley – We love Duceppe here.
  • 10:37 PM Andrew Coyne – I hate it when Dion goes for the slogans. His whole stock in trade is sincerity, and he cheapens it when he does.
  • 10:38 PM Kady O’Malley – Andrew Potter: “Seriously. Manufacturing, WTF?”
  • 10:38 PM Aaron Wherry – His father was a comedian.
  • 10:38 PM John Geddes – Proportional representation is her top priority?
  • 10:38 PM Andrew Coyne – Here, here!
  • 10:39 PM Andrew Coyne – I mean hear, hear!
  • 10:39 PM Chris Selley – Here we go. Artists salaries. Average $23,500. Dancers are poorest, $15,000. (Insert mean-spirited or ideological joke here.) Their choreographers make $43,000. Jerks.
  • 10:39 PM Kady O’Malley – oh! oh!
  • 10:39 PM Andrew Coyne – RP!
  • 10:39 PM Paul Wells – Does anybody believe Elizabeth May is some kind of wack-nut extraneous presence with no business here — or a blatant stalking horse for Dion? Because I don’t think she remotely resembles either. I think so far she’s redeeming the choice to have her here.
  • 10:40 PM Andrew Coyne – She’s a threat to the NDP, even if Jack doesn’t seem to know it.
  • 10:40 PM Aaron Wherry – Harper’s going to have a busy first day.
  • 10:40 PM Paul Wells – Oh, Jack sure knew it… that’s why a lot of NDP strategists were very displeased that she managed to break into this thing.
  • 10:41 PM Kady O’Malley – Jack is weirdly obsessed with Exxon today.
  • 10:41 PM Chris Selley – Why do I hate Exxon so much all of a sudden?
  • 10:41 PM Chris Selley – I win.
  • 10:41 PM Martin Patriquin – It’s a little off-topic, but why did Harper oppose her appearance here? The more credible she is, the more the left vote splits.
  • 10:42 PM Chris Selley – Paikin!
  • 10:42 PM Kady O’Malley – That’s never been clear.
  • 10:42 PM John Geddes – Only a few days ago Layton was signaling he would be going after Harper not Dion
  • 10:42 PM Aaron Wherry – Only yesterday Layton was signaling he would be going after Harper not Dion.
  • 10:43 PM Kady O’Malley – that was freaky.
  • 10:43 PM Martin Patriquin – Get a room, you two.
  • 10:43 PM Paul Wells – This is an odd little thing. Layton delivered the will-you-listen-to-the-premiers-who-don’t-like-your-green-shift question that has been a major Conservative point this week, and Harper didn’t perk up as he listened. Layton was carrying Harper’s water — only temprorarily — and Harper didn’t seem to notice. Trivial, but it added to my general impression these two nights that the PM is a bit disengaged from all this.
  • 10:43 PM Chris Selley – No touching, Ms. May. No touching!
  • 10:44 PM Kady O’Malley – Andrew Potter sez: Liz May is doing great… as long as she doesn’t blow it by mentioning the Creatrix.
  • 10:44 PM Andrew Coyne – May just gave Harper a gift!
  • 10:44 PM John Geddes – Yes, and he’s unwrapping it very slowly
  • 10:45 PM Aaron Wherry – No new taxes!
  • 10:45 PM Martin Patriquin – “I think we need to be very clear.” If I had a shot every time you said that, Steve… oh wait. I have.
  • 10:45 PM Kady O’Malley – “Oh, come on>”
  • 10:45 PM Martin Patriquin – READ HIS LIPS! (Of course, he said it while drinking water, so it doesn’t count.)
  • 10:45 PM Kady O’Malley – My room loved that. In a mocking way.
  • 10:45 PM Chris Selley – That mumbling “I will not raise taxha” into his water glass is an attack-ad waiting to be made.
  • 10:45 PM Andrew Coyne – Oh the bloody Quebec-consensus…
  • 10:45 PM Aaron Wherry – I would, but he was holding a glass in front of his face when he said it.
  • 10:45 PM Kady O’Malley – It’s a very sarcastic room. I swear that’s not my FAULT.
  • 10:46 PM Kady O’Malley – Harper: “I Promise I Will Never Die.” (apotter)
  • 10:46 PM John Geddes – If you say “I will not raise taxes” while drinking a glass of water it will cure your hiccups.
  • 10:46 PM Chris Selley – Promise to kill| the income trust tax, Dion. DO IT.
  • 10:47 PM Paul Wells – Oh Andrew? Remember when you were excited about Flaherty calling for a single securities regulator? And I said it probably didn’t mean too much? Harper just said he’ll NEVER impose a regulator on any province that doesn’t want it. Something I’m sure you noticed, and regret.
  • 10:47 PM Chris Selley – Booo, babies!
  • 10:47 PM Martin Patriquin – Aimee!!!
  • 10:48 PM Chris Selley – Here’s the perfect chance for Dion to promise to axe the tax on income trusts.
  • 10:48 PM Andrew Coyne – Except that it’s awful policy, that is
  • 10:48 PM Aaron Wherry – Harper loves children. He has two of them. And they’re artists. Who believe we should pull out of Afghanistan in 2011.
  • 10:49 PM John Geddes – She hates the paparazzi. They plague her.
  • 10:49 PM Andrew Coyne – Demand Better! Conservative slogan 2004!
  • 10:50 PM Kady O’Malley – Note to War Rooms of all parties: I surrender.
  • 10:50 PM Kady O’Malley – Please stop emailing me with the fact checks.
  • 10:50 PM Kady O’Malley – (Until tomorrow, of course.)
  • 10:50 PM Chris Selley – @Coyne: I was being obliquely sarcastic.
  • 10:50 PM Aaron Wherry – Take a look at our platform?!?!?
  • 10:51 PM Kady O’Malley – Ohhh
  • 10:51 PM Chris Selley – ELIZABETH MAY.
  • 10:51 PM Paul Wells – Holy cow.
  • 10:51 PM Kady O’Malley – that was unfortunate
  • 10:51 PM Martin Patriquin – Oblique sarcasm. Drink!
  • 10:51 PM John Geddes – I’m glad to here the Prime Minister suggesting that we not give up the right to elect governments.
  • 10:51 PM Paul Wells – Knockout punch! Self-inflicted!
  • 10:51 PM Paul Wells – And this time I’m not sure I kid.
  • 10:51 PM Andrew Coyne – Jesus Harper looked sick there.
  • 10:51 PM Chris Selley – Layton attempts to piggyback on May, misses, falls on face, attempts bad sweater joke.
  • 10:52 PM Chris Selley – I dunno, I liked Harper’s little “you got me” smile there. Made him look quasi-human.
  • 10:52 PM John Geddes – Take a deep breath and go for it. Another great slogan.
  • 10:53 PM Chris Selley – Jack Layton malapropism! Drink!
  • 10:53 PM Chris Selley – Exxon! Drink!
  • 10:53 PM Andrew Coyne – Exxon! Drink!
  • 10:53 PM John Geddes – Layton attacking Dion a lot.
  • 10:53 PM Chris Selley – I win.
  • 10:53 PM Martin Patriquin – My feed just died. Drink!
  • 10:54 PM Kady O’Malley – Exxon and the bankers?
  • 10:55 PM Chris Selley – You know what would help Harper? New hair.
  • 10:55 PM Andrew Coyne – Another good moment for Harper. Again, because he was being true to himself.
  • 10:55 PM Aaron Wherry – And a platform.
  • 10:55 PM Chris Selley – Mostly hair.
  • 10:55 PM John Geddes – May must be losing people here.
  • 10:55 PM Chris Selley – Too much, Ms. May.
  • 10:56 PM Andrew Coyne – Don’t agree. I thought that was devastating.
  • 10:56 PM Kady O’Malley – I dunno, my room seems to be liking her.
  • 10:56 PM Andrew Coyne – And I don’t even agree with her argument.
  • 10:56 PM Martin Patriquin – What did she say? Damn you Global. DAMN YOU!
  • 10:56 PM Kady O’Malley – I hope Harper and Duceppe start arguing about that thing that nobody understood
  • 10:56 PM Kady O’Malley – with the RCMP and Michel Gauthier and a lot of anger. And lies.
  • 10:58 PM Andrew Coyne – May’s worst tendency is to shout over Harper. She’s gained a lot of yards here, but she looks like a yahoo when she does that.
  • 10:58 PM Andrew Coyne – Now she’s shouting over Paikin.
  • 10:58 PM Kady O’Malley – And now, the spin!
  • 10:59 PM John Geddes – Harper ends strong, although Dion did okay squeezing in the he’s-a-mean-guy stuff.
  • 10:59 PM Andrew Coyne – We end on a note of Canadian smugness.
  • 10:59 PM Chris Selley – Yeah, that was a bad, schoolmarmish ending for May.
  • 10:59 PM Aaron Wherry – So how badly will the daily columnists judge who won this one?
  • 11:00 PM John Geddes – I don’t know what to make of May being such a big part of it. To me she was powerful but not always appealing.
  • 11:01 PM Martin Patriquin – I say May did remarkably well.
  • 11:02 PM Chris Selley – I agree with Patriquin on May. But even if she was “powerful but not always appealing,” that’s gotta be pretty solid for a party that got 4.48% in 2006.
  • 11:03 PM Paul Wells – I think Harper had a difficult night, and not only because of the geometry of things — four against one. At times, not usually but sometimes, he seemed genuinely unsure how to respond — Question Period is a poor training ground for level playing fields.
  • 11:05 PM Paul Wells – But It’s not clear to me who would benefit from any votes Harper might have lost. Dion had a strong night, and I don’t think his English was a serious problem for 10 seconds out of the whole night. But Layton and May were more often genuinely funny, and May was sometimes quite passionate. And sometimes a little flakey.
  • 11:05 PM Paul Wells – I’ll leave it there. Off to scrums. Cheerio!
  • 11:05 PM Martin Patriquin – Global’s polls, whatever they’re worth, has Harper ahead, with Dion second. May said to have been a surprise hit.
  • 11:05 PM John Geddes – The Dion/Layton clashes seemed more direct than either’s exchanges with Harper. Isn’t that good for Harper?
  • 11:05 PM John Geddes – In that Harper wasn’t taking all the fire.
  • 11:08 PM Kady O’Malley – How far apart, Martin?
  • 11:10 PM Kady O’Malley – Okay, I’m going to flee this gala before the photographer who keeps taking pictures of me typing gives me a serious complex.
  • 11:10 PM Kady O’Malley – Goodnight, all!
  • 11:37 PM Chris Selley – Coyne calls it for May on At Issue. “Managed to avoid using the words ‘this life-giving orb.'”
  • 12:17 AM Andrew Coyne – Tomorrow’s drinking game: every instance of the phrase “no knock-out blows” in hack news reports.

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Macleans.ca liveblog – Canadian Leadership Debate – Day 2

  1. Will there be any input from the famous, but unfortunately named Kady O’Malley – Kady O’Malley?

  2. (BTW, does that make O’Malley-Kady her middle name?)

  3. In my defence, that was a problem with the Scribblething, which for some reason wasn’t including my name on the non-macleans.ca site, but it magically reappeared over here. Sorry about that!

  4. We were just making it easier for all you fine folks to follow Kady’s excellent commentary.
    *whistles and walks into the distance*

  5. is the format of the ‘debate’ the same tonight?

  6. @Seaandthemountains
    Indeed it is! Also, because we love our readers so much. We’re also going to have a liveblog of the US VP Debate, with the lovely Luiza Ch. Savage and Scott Feschuk. Look for that post soon.

  7. I feel it important to emphasize that Feschuk is lovely too.

  8. So he’s not the guy in his picture? Or do you mean lovely on the inside. Because that doesn’t count in real life.

  9. Careful Paul that’s how rumours start! Next thing you know you will be humming the theme song from Brokeback Mountain.

  10. Lovely was clearly applied to both people. I don’t know why you would think otherwise.

  11. Olaf, you’re bloggin! wow.
    That’s the surprise of the evening so far.

  12. Hey, will she make it back for the debates? Can the Concorde take off from Sheet Harbour?

    Proof that the GPC was as equally shocked as the rest of us that she was included. This from their website , upcoming events (Now):

    Elizabeth May Speaks at Rally in Sheet Harbour, NS.
    Start: 02.10.2008 – 19:00
    End: 02.10.2008 – 21:00
    Timezone: Canada/Atlantic

    Ms. May will speak to supporters at a Green Party rally in her riding of Central Nova. Lion’s Centre, Sheet Harbour, Nova Scotia. Event is open to the public at 7pm-9pm.

  13. @Kady O’Malley: Sorry for the confusion, I noticed that your name was blank last night so I fixed it for you. If you ever want to change it again, just go to the “Profile” page on ScribbleLive.com.

    Happy liveblogging tonight!

  14. hey dudes… i can’t find tonioght’s link on scribble live… help!

  15. Uh oh, May went there.

    Stop foreign ownership. I think I can see the vein pulsing in Andrew Coyne’s forehead from my living room.

  16. And the earliest personal attack goes to:
    (drumroll please)
    Harper!

    What a shocker.

  17. Dion looks/sounds like he’s making a pitch for support, for world vision.

  18. Stephen Harper: I have no plan. So I’ll trash talk Dion’s.

  19. What’s wrong with Mr. Harper’s eyes this evening? They weren’t that close together or glazed (really, a film covering) last night.

  20. Policies aside, May sounds the most like a real person. The rest sound to varying degrees like they’re performing in a high school play.

    Fanciful tangent: wouldn’t this be more fun if it were a musical?

  21. Man, the commenters get to have their own Liveblog, fun!

  22. “rosy mini budget”… hehe, oh Dion. I’m sorry to say he’s just not that good in english

  23. At least question period is fairer….this is ridicuous…4 shots then one response….last night seemed more of a conversation

    Such is life

  24. “At least question period is fairer….this is ridicuous…4 shots then one response….last night seemed more of a conversation

    Such is life”

    Yeah, it’s kinda stupid. Maybe Coyne has a point, just now.
    “Harper’s completely right, but politics and journalism are not kind to the “things are on balance okayl” message. He needs a tax-cutting, market-opening message — do-something not do-nothing.”

    Maybe he should go hard tory. He’s certainly not going to steal any left wing votes, not with 4 parties to his left, maybe he should tack right and try to shore up his support.

  25. Mr Howard! Mr Howard!

  26. May brought up the 1997 NCC speech by Harper. Full points to the first leader to bring up the firewall speech.

  27. Finally, Layton attacks Dion… right on schedule. This will probably be the only time.

  28. Dion is definitely, suffering here. He’s nervous, he’s flubbing his points, and he’s tripping over his tongue.

    Ick.

    He needs to relax.

  29. We know the Liberals have veered left when Sweden has become their economic model.

  30. “Dion is definitely, suffering here. He’s nervous, he’s flubbing his points, and he’s tripping over his tongue.

    Ick.

    He needs to relax.”

    Yeah, I agree. Language makes such a difference, he was so chilled out last night.

  31. Now I see why Harper didn’t want May there. She’s like Dion’s friendly salesman.

  32. Did Stephen Harper just say “lazy-faire”? What the h*ll kind of economic policy is that?

  33. the volvo plant makes aerospace bits? I thought it was road graders!

  34. Summary of debate so far:

    Layton:

    Your doing nothing.

    Harper,

    spends two minutes outlining his steps taken,

    lather, rinse repeat.

    Is it me or is everyon here with the open ended “your not doing anything” inviting Harper to lay out what he’s done,

    over and over and over again.

    Kody’s revised estimated seat count:

    180

  35. Did Stephen Harper just say “lazy-faire”?

    Yup .

  36. OK Layton scores big with the “where is your platform under your sweater?” comment.

    My fav so far

  37. Why is he just being a punching bag…its got to be killing him inside.

    I dont want him to lose it but…..

  38. Jack’s not scoring points on Harper:

    goes after Dion.

  39. “Kody’s revised estimated seat count:

    180”

    Remember, Harper needed to gain in Quebec to get a majority, and thanks to last night probably will not happen.

    But you may be onto something – with 4 voices attacking Harper from the left, it’s hard for Dion to get any attention.

  40. A truth is a truth ?

  41. So, I wonder if Andrew Coyne and others are so happy now that she’s been acting as Dion’s attack dog.

    The Greens have less than 10% of the vote. So an attack on anyone would potentially bring benefits to their party. But she sits and barks at Harper without even realizing there are people on the other side of the table.

  42. Fire the moderator.

  43. Dion was just great – if he relaxes and smiles, his crappy english isn’t as much of a problem.

  44. My wife’s having trouble understanding Dion,

    me less so, I suspect because I’ve “learned” to listen to him as a politico.

    I’m thinking most folks haven’t yet “learned” to listen to Dion.

    Kody’s revised seat count:

    181

  45. Harper is hitting it out of the park. The others look like a bunch of school children in the principal’s office.

  46. If you cover the bottom half of Layton’s face, he looks like Jean Luc Picard. It makes the drivel that comes out of his mouth a teeny bit more bearable, barely.

  47. Duceppe loves a plan that sees Quebec profit at Canada’s expense. plus ca change…

  48. Are we in agreement that May has been churlish, unfocused,

    and simply awful?

  49. L, REALLY?

    When I cover Harper’s body he looks more like a robot.

  50. Does harper have a hidden projection screen from the liveblog? 40bn vs 26bn just appeared

  51. Is it my imagination or did Harper just concede that fighting pollution will cost us? Like, immediately after Dion explained that the money raised from the carbon tax will go towards tax cuts on personal income and company profits. Well, I’ll be damned!

  52. May losing badly,

    good for Dion, less green splitting:

    Revised seat count

    CPC

    179

    uh oh……..

    Dion “why are you saying that” (in whiny tone)

    re: revised seat count

    185

    …….

  53. TrustyTory
    “Harper is hitting it out of the park. The others look like a bunch of school children in the principal’s office.”

    I dunno, you’re pushing it here. Harper has a tough time being sincere. He’s outperforming Dion probably, but not May.

  54. Someone fetch Steffie a hat . He’s begging .

  55. I’ve been disappointed with Dion so far but that was really something when he looked into the camera to explain the income tax cuts. After the minor drama of accusing Harper of lying about the carbon tax, it was like he was talking to *me*!

  56. How is making companies pay for their pollution (as Harper is suggesting) not a “tax on everything” as well?

  57. Harper’s better when he doesn’t try to smile. Sincerely. It’s un-natural.

  58. Harper tells us taxes on companies don’t affect consumers. Uh-huh. So taxes on say, oil companies won’t affect pump prices?

    Sad to say Paikin has nowhere near the level of control of Stephan Bureau.

  59. “Harper tells us taxes on companies don’t affect consumers. Uh-huh. So taxes on say, oil companies won’t affect pump prices?

    Sad to say Paikin has nowhere near the level of control of Stephan Bureau.”

    Agreed, Mark, on the taxes and on Paikin.

  60. Not out performing May???????

    They’re ALL outperforming May,

    particularily harper.

    May looks like a wing nut.

  61. Not sure May backing territoriality was a good idea since Duceppe singled out BC as a province that would have to work hard (be substantially taxed) to meet Kyoto targets as a province.

  62. Too bad for Dion. May OWNS the environmental issue. She is the clearest and to me, the most reasonable, person on this file. She’s making Layton look like a fringe environmentalist.

  63. Layton IS a fringe environmentalist.

  64. I disagree Pete. He’s being very sincere. Elizabeth May has some stupid vendetta and sounds really, really ridiculous. She makes a crack about not following up with Kyoto but refuses to attack Dion. What’s going on there?

  65. Harper’s litany of projects was out of that park.

    May saying “fraud” four times in a row,

    well,

    she’s just nuts.

  66. “I’m Jack Layton and I approve this message”

  67. OMG…Harper just picked his nose!

  68. @Potter comment above: CO2 may not be pollution, but if our atmosphere were 90% CO2 we’d be dead.

    Yes I exaggerate, but my point is, all the gases on the atmosphere have to be in balance with each other. Heck our atmosphere being 90% oxygen would probably kill us too.

  69. I picked up on Duceppe drinking the “oil barrel” – hilarious. Layton’s question to Harper “Where’s your platform – hiding under your sweater?” was so funny. Harper has nothing to say.

  70. “nose pick gate!!!!!”

    On the Globe’s headline tomorrow.

  71. Layton called Harper incompetent or an idiot.
    May called him a fraud.

    Nice to see the decorum of the opposition parties.

  72. “I disagree Pete. He’s being very sincere. Elizabeth May has some stupid vendetta and sounds really, really ridiculous”
    Man, ToryDude, look what the Macleans people are saying above. May is cutting up Harper the best out of everyone.

    As for Harper being sincere – I don’t doubt that on some issues, he IS sincere. But his smile isn’t sincere. It’s too forced and creepy.

    Look at Dion right now. His smile is much better than Harper’s.

  73. My wife just admitted to

    “tuning out” Dion because he’s so difficult to follow.

    Revised seat count:

    188

  74. “Where’s your platform – hiding under your sweater?”

    That’s not funny at all, because nobody knows what he is talking about, since Harper is not wearing a sweater. It made Layton look stupid.

  75. The bagels are excellent here. The debate, well that is another question.

  76. yet another example of where harper gave

    very specific examples of his plan.

    Over and over and over again, with specific examples.

    The others: calling Harper a liar.

    Revised seat count:

    191

  77. Dumb comment Potter.

    Wiki sez:

    U.S. National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) and American Conference of Government Industrial Hygienists (ACGIH) limit is 30,000 ppm (3%). NIOSH also states that carbon dioxide concentrations exceeding 4% are immediately dangerous to life and health.

  78. NCC, Harpy, NCC…

  79. kody redundant line space count: 429

  80. “I’ve never used private health care”

    “No, I’VE never used a private clinic”

    “NO, I’VE NEVER EVER used a private clinic”

    “I’m spartacus.”

    “No, I’M SPARTACUS!”

  81. Harper,

    more specific examples,

    over and over and over again.

    Revised seat count:

    195

  82. Awesome . Jack’s gonna need some private care for that scar .

  83. Kady O’Malley wants to be Elizabeth May when she grows up.

  84. 9:52 PM Kady O’Malley – Also, that line is such crap — all federal politicians can, if necessary, make use of the National Defence health care clinics

    Kady you maybe talking about the Hospital that used to be in Ottawa. That was closed years ago and DND has now changed their hospitals to glorified walk-in clinics.

  85. Dion,

    after 13 years we were “about to solve” the healthcare problem.

    After translating that to my wife,

    she laughed her coffee out of her nose.

    Revised seat count

    196

  86. Ok, I take it back, May’s gone crazy. There’s an international conspiracy to take our healthcare.
    You know, they hate our freedom!

  87. Nice try with the speech, Liz. You wackjob.

  88. It takes a real leader to pick his nose during a leadership debate.

  89. Harper’s won. Plain and simple. It’s over, ladies and gents. We’ll see how the media plays the bloodbath of the opposition tomorrow.

  90. I’m confused. Liz May is a fiscal conservative, while defending public health care?

  91. kody – Harper has nothing to teach us on health care and wait times, despite his Five Priorities last time.

  92. Dewey’s won. Plain and simple. It’s over, ladies and gents. We’ll see how the media plays the bloodbath of the opposition tomorrow.

  93. Dion: Canadians need help with Catastrophic Drugs.

    Dude, I don’t need help with those. Just don’t send the RCMP to take them away from me.

  94. “Andrew Coyne – “Fiscal imbalacne is not settled.” And the demands ratched up again.”

    They never end, Andrew. They never end.

    “Chris Selley – Anyone want to comment on the constitutional implications of installing Steve Paikin as an unelected speaker of the House of Commons?”

    I don’t know about the “constitutional” implications, but even this chaotic debate would be an improvement over the level of discourse in the House.

  95. Harper did NOT create the Mental Health Commission! It was the hated-by-many Senate!! And a measly 10M/yr!!!

  96. How many specific examples of Harper’s various action plans did he list,

    I lost count after twenty.

    The rest:

    virtually none,

    but they managed to call Harper a liar.

    This is a rout.

    An absolute rout.

  97. I wonder if Andrew Coyne regrets advocating May’s involvement.

    Paging Andrew Coyne,

    Paging Andrew Coyne.

  98. May is a former Progressive Conservative…hence why she is mad at Peter Mackay

    Harper starting to wake up now….first half he was a punchbag and it didnt look good on him.

    And fair shot about Shouldice…world class institution that shows what privately delivered publically funded (for canadians) helath care can do. And its a mile from my house.

  99. I swear, the Tories will never release their platform. Mwahaha!

  100. Harper cornered Layton on his use of the private Shouldice clinic in response to Layton’s claim that Harper was dismantling health care.

    Bush comment total as of 10 pm: 21 and counting.

    Dion’s English going downhill.

    May won’t say if Greens would privatize all private clinics. Wishy washy answer.

    Duceppe getting a bit shrill.

  101. Harpy: “I play piano.”

    Mainline!

  102. Dion,

    “Beauty, beautiful emotions, stimulation”

    Harper:

    another specific example.

  103. One of these livebloggers is not like the others. Ms. O’Malley, please comment about something worthwhile. Thanks.

  104. If Dion get’s anymore stimulated this could get ugly .

  105. I think Harper is holding his own tonight. The set-up totally singles him out and lines him up in front of a firing squad.

    Layton and May seem very angry tonight. Dion barely registers.

  106. Is everyone OD’ing on Stephs and Steves? I’m not!

  107. Conservatives are barbarians? WTF?

  108. My wife,

    who’s apolitical,

    thinks Harper completely knocked this one “out of the park.

    Seat count:

    195

  109. comedian=actor


    sorry.
    I don’t think I can do it either.

  110. Dion is allergic to the NAC makeup. :)/:(

  111. Boy, they sure love art. Lets just be glad the question was about art and not racism – we’d be hearing all about their black friends…

  112. Oops, Dion just called Harper “President”. Dion just lost a point.

    Yeah looks like Harper’s on a roll. They’re actually silent and letting him speak.

  113. “Dion is allergic to the NAC makeup. ”

    Maybe that’s why he’s so bipolar tonight.

  114. May,

    advocating,

    “climate control trucks” delivering “green” art.

    That’s a winner.

  115. STEPHEN HARPER IS KILLING THE ENVIRONMENT, QUIETLY ……BY STOPPING ARTISTS FROM DRIVING HYBRIDS! OOOOOOOOOOOH THE HUMANITY.

  116. 10:03 PM Kady O’Malley – Question: Where is the subsidy for parents of kids who play first person shooters all day. Seriously. You could charge it to the military training budget.

    HAHAHAHAH…. I’m all for that, I could save thoughsands a year on what my son plays!!!!

  117. May:
    No more climate-controlled trucks! The arts are in turmoil.

    Oh, boy, that set them all back.

    Using the word stupid was another mistake.

  118. “mean spirited”. I haven’t heard that epithet since Mike Harris was around.

  119. Gilles speaks Dionglish fluently as well , who Knew ?

  120. May just hit that bit out of the park.

  121. must be nice to be in Ottawa and have a family doctor – try and come to Belleville, Ontario and telephone every doctor in the phone book for 10 years and find nothing.

  122. Paikin essentially admits Biden-Palin is more exciting…

  123. They’re getting more shrill.

    They know Harper’s winning.

    Hey, “MORE INSULTS” that’s the answer.

  124. “I love the arts. Why, just the other day, I listened to my son play the guitar.” Dude, please!

  125. Steve Paiken is fantastic! “Guys, I’m trying to make sure Biden-Palin don’t take our audience here.”

  126. Conservatives are barbarians? No bias there, Mr. Paikin.

  127. Kody, you’re getting to sound like a wack job. Perhaps you need help. Try the Cleveland Clinic:

    http://my.clevelandclinic.org/default.aspx

    You’ll be happy to know your tax dollars do not fund the clinic and it will only cost $2,200.00 for a consultation.

  128. Persimmon. That’s the shade of Harpy’s lipstick.

  129. Duceppe’s English is fine with the exception of the word “development”

  130. Jack’s been derailed for a bit…

  131. Steve Paikin rocks. He actually intervenes and calls people out for nonsense.

  132. Harper:

    we must review all expendatures and be responsible.

    The rest:

    THAT’S MEAN.

    This stuff is golden.

    Golden I tell ya.

  133. YEAH! Damn banks! Who do they employ? Only tens of thousands?! HELP THE INDY ARTIST INSTEAD!

  134. Dion is close to tears. Duceppe trips on his words, too excited about the artsy crowd.

    Layton says films are made in Toronto. Duceppe turned white.

  135. NEWS FLASH:
    Crime rates in Canada at lowest level (and plummeting) for many, many decades.

    I mean, come on!

  136. Relax,

    just having a bit of fun.

    Hey,

    namecalling,

    you must be a member of today’s “progressive tolerant left”.

  137. Dion’s at his best when he’s speaking to the camera rather than trying to think on his feet while in the slap fight.

  138. Dion,

    rhetoric,

    Harper’s specific examples in 3,2,1,

  139. NEWS FLASH:
    People dealing with mental illness are more at risk of being a VICTIM of crime than the general population, as opposed to being the perpetrators of crime compared to the gen pop. So there! :P

  140. Banning handguns…that sounds familiar….

  141. @AndrewCoyne:

    Hand guns are not banned, they are restricted.

    However, so tightly restricted a ban wouldn’t do anything.

  142. The registration of all handguns has been required by federal law since 1934, and since 1968 permits to carry them have been restricted to a few specific circumstances, for example, use in target practice or competition, protection in extreme cases where police protection isn’t adequate, and in certain jobs, such as transporting large amounts of cash or other valuables

  143. To the thread:
    How’s Dion doing in English?
    I’m watching the live-translation feed.

  144. May is probably doing the best here…even though I find her annoying….but I think she’ll gain ground. Dion is lost, Layton at times scores but then he goes too far. Harper, now that he has woken up is much better, but think he lost important time at the beginning.

    Liberal vote collapses to the Greens and the NDP…NDP have to challenge the Greens.

    Dont think the Cons are losing any votes on this debate but dont think they are squishing anyone, which begs the question that I dont think they could.

    Divided opposition, if the tories pull 38, means Con majority…Chretien did it with 38% and their vote was highly concentrated.

    Its going to be close but Dion is not helping his cause….so I would say 158 to 162 seats for the Cons. Liberal vote collapses to under John Turner levels….Greens get a seat, but it wont be May’s.

    All depends on splits

  145. Elizabeth May-apedia.

  146. Too many voices. I could like Elizabeth May if she hadn’t shown such obscene judgment by supporting the Liberals in any way. She’s honest.

  147. Ohhh boy, you guys are totally missing out on Pailin’s ‘folksy charm’ in the US VP debate. One could try drinking every time one hears ‘gosh darn it’, but I don’t think I ever drank that much.

  148. Layton will win the a**h**e vote. His repeated and out-of-place insults have that segment of the population locked up.

  149. More name calling by the opposition.

    I’m guessing most Canadians aren’t too keen on that.

  150. So if copying is flattery then the NDP really likes the the con odea of giving cahs to families rather than big programs delivered by a government….maybe we have made progress.

  151. @Sophie:

    He’s done worse. There have been some really great moments of comprehensibility and performance, but I think your perception depends in part on your political leaning. I expect a few people here think it’s the worst performance in the public eye since Michael Jackson showed up for court in his pyjamas.

  152. These comments suck! Canada is screwed.

  153. If Dion could communicate better, the difference between his style and Jack Layton would be striking. People harping on Dion’s english is the best thing that’s happened to Layton in years.

  154. @J. Kelly: At least we’re all screwed together.

  155. @Geddes: 2008 Stats Can (Juristat) report: Youth violent crime is up 30% since 1991, 12% (I believe) in the last decade. We can disagree on the causes here, but Harper is hardly fudging the numbers.

  156. Dion on crime incomprehensible. Glad he was allowed to continue.

    Harper and Dion don’t agree on the role of judges….I think…..er maybe they do….please take me out of my misery…..

    Layton on the verge of tears….crocodile tears for aboriginal inmates and their families.

  157. Kody:
    “More name calling by the opposition.

    I’m guessing most Canadians aren’t too keen on that.”

    Can you please be a more serious person instead of a blind partisan. Every time Harper opens his mouth you have an orgasm. Take a cold shower, for God’s sake.

    And as for name calling by the opposition? Sure, it’s sad that’s what it’s come to, but remember who started this election with what tone.

  158. 1. The U.S. VP debate is accessible through the magic of online streaming video.

    2. Steve Paikin for PM!

  159. How many times is Dion going to say “The Liberal Plan”?

  160. An apology only means something when there’s cash involved .

  161. “As much compassion for victims as for criminals”

    that’s just crazy talk.

    Quick, somebody insult Harper.

  162. My it must be nice to be perfect. I think I’m going to job shadow Jack Layton someday.

  163. Did Layton just make Dion cry?

  164. Weird. Harper did well in the Arts segment, but did poorly in the Crime segment.

    In my opinion.

  165. Just dropped in on Biden-Palin for 10 (PVR ftw!) – I fled back to this debate in terror… the horror…

  166. Did I just hear Jack Layton pants Dion just there?

  167. This issue would hurt Harper if anyone was willing to argue to the right of him

  168. “you supported Harper 43 times”

    ouch

  169. Harper is strong on this section…if people are watching this wins him 905 and 519 and will cause serious problems for grits in 416….

    I suspect BC landscape is simlar….this is a winning issue for him.

  170. Maybe it’s my TV, but Duceppe’s hair is blue-ish, but against his suit looks greener.

  171. my wife wants to know what’s with Harper and the incessant “let’s be clear”s.

  172. Ryan:
    ‘This issue would hurt Harper if anyone was willing to argue to the right of him”

    Well said. I’m sure Coyne would agree with you. This can still hurt him though as he contradicted what he said earlier about a lack of a fixed pullout date.

    Let’s see what May and Dion say.

  173. Oooooh ………… here come’s the bottom feeding .

  174. Some of you journos are letting slip a little bit too much. Don’t inspire any more slackers to join your profession. Thanks to Mr. Coyne and Mr. Wells, as usual.

  175. Why does Dion have

    Emeeeeretion fear him.

    Translation anyone?

    ….

    whoops, Layton: Harper’s lying

  176. “Chris Selley – Harper: “If we never leave, will the job ever get done?” Uhhh…”

    Hehehe…

  177. Dion accused Harper of

    disangument.

    I’m not sure what he means, but I assume its an insult.

  178. Jack seems to be taking advantage of his attack dog status, putting Dion on the defensive twice now (I’ve only seen since 10 when I got home from work)

  179. Iraq! *drink*

  180. Jacko is calling everyone a liar. He is coming of like a 5 year old to me.

  181. OK, Dion just pulled his pants up and pulled Layton’s down.

    “You don’t leave Afghanistan like it was a camping trip”

  182. I think repeating the first word of the sentence five times is Harper’s version of SERENITY NOW!

  183. Paikin on a roll

  184. Harper just got knocked off balance by Duceppe.

  185. Good discussion on Afghanistan.

    Bush reference up by 2 total now: 25.

    Duceppe raises Iraq, US and Australia.

    Duceppe: Did you make an error at that time? Would we be in Iraq now? Harper: No.

  186. Re: the americans

    This debate isn’t much but the US debate looks even duller.

    The table helps. Palin-Biden and making mini-speeches on the spot, but we’re getting a conversation of sorts in Ottawa.

  187. What’s a GANP ?

  188. “This debate isn’t much but the US debate looks even duller.”

    French debate was better for some reason. Must be Bureau vs. Paikin.

  189. Ahhhh,

    imprudent.

    Got it at the end there.

    thought it was impllnt. which, of course, isn’t a word.

  190. Mark Dowling: my wife wants to know what’s with Harper and the incessant “let’s be clear”s.
    —————
    I think you’ll find, Mr. Dowling, that the words/phrases “let’s be clear,” “clearly” and “obviously” are liberally ;) peppered among Harper’s words in the Hansard for the last 6 years or so.

  191. With all the references to George Bush, I thought this is the US debate

  192. Dion “I’ll fill the Senate vacancies” – that would be the best answer ever…

  193. Just another reason to learn French: An excellent debate every four years or less.

  194. I think I’d like to drink with Gilles Duceppe.

  195. Here it comes .

  196. May just mimicked Palin, saying that, as a working mother, she knows multitasking. *slaps forehead*

  197. Harper’s action plan: we’ll continue to manage.

  198. what’s with Harper and all these details,

    I want rhetoric!!

  199. WDM, you’re not alone! A round of La Maudite for everyone!

  200. Harper bit here was good. But if he just wiped that fake smirk off his face, it would have been better.

  201. WDM: I think I’d like to drink with Gilles Duceppe.
    ————-
    As for me, I’d love to hang out with the Maclean’s blog bunch. *gush-blush*

  202. quick,

    somebody insult Harper!

  203. Harper looking to Obama for support?!

  204. Ok I’m lazy and haven’t patiently scrolled enough, but (and I must admit I’m hanging out with transplanted yanks this eve so vast majority of time has been spent watching the VP debate) but I’m sure I’m not the first to note that the best line of the night had to be (and I can’t stand Layton) was JL’s “where’s your platform, under the sweater?” line…

  205. Paiken said Ontario gov.doesn’t support Green Shift. Dion recoiled in horror.

  206. Dion scored a nice point there with the Don Drummond thing.

  207. btw my fave thing about Palin is that the letter “g” doesn’t exist in her version of English, at least in words that supposedly end with “ing”. Just sayin’ !

  208. dion just declared himself ……

    drum roll…..

    courageous.

  209. Oh my , priorities .

  210. Good line by Dion there. Again, at his best when he’s talking to the camera.

  211. NEWS FLASH:
    Creating new tax credits, rather than lower income taxes, makes filing your return more complicated.

  212. “Paul Wells – This is an odd little thing. Layton delivered the will-you-listen-to-the-premiers-who-don’t-like-your-green-shift question that has been a major Conservative point this week, and Harper didn’t perk up as he listened. Layton was carrying Harper’s water — only temprorarily — and Harper didn’t seem to notice. Trivial, but it added to my general impression these two nights that the PM is a bit disengaged from all this.”

    I think he’s resigned to getting another minority.

  213. Oh! Dion was talking to the camera and they cut away. Pas fin!

  214. Duceppe produces an LOL moment “someone of you know it but won’t say it”

  215. Paiken is waaayyyy too fair.

  216. pssssst,

    dion

    you DONT

  217. Duceppe: Quebec bla bla bla Quebec bla bla bla

    Every province should have their own separatist party just so that at least one other province is mentioned at some point.

  218. pssssst,

    dion

    you DONT want people to visit the green shift web site,

    listen to your handlers,

    it’s a loser.

  219. Whats the statute of limitations on being a young voter? If you haven’t voted in the last few, presumably you vote in a few before that?

  220. Help me out here, has there been a single question from a Canadian who lives west of Lethbridge??

  221. The Dowling household is in disbelief – the first priority of a GP government would be *proportional representation*? Not saving polar bears??

  222. Harper’s forced grin is creeping me out. It’s just a little too “Why so serious?” for me. *shivers*

  223. Attention Macleans staffers and Paul Wells in particular:

    not calling names and being shrill,

    does not equate with being

    “disengaged”.

    Just had a look at the blog thread up there.

    Another planet man.

  224. And what shade of lipstick is the PM wearing this evening?

  225. Harper: Take a look at our platform
    May: Where is it?

    I, too, wonder where it is.

  226. May on pulpit. Compared politicians to paparazzi. Good message to voters about asking for better from politicians.

    Harper: Our platform….May asks: Where is it? Good jab.

  227. quick, more attacks on the sweater!

  228. Pr from May…what a shock….question is will that be enough to win Coyne’s vote?

  229. layton is the top performer

  230. quick,

    someone call harper a liar!

  231. Stephane..i only caught like 2 sentences there.

  232. Take a deep breath ……. code …. spark one up !

  233. kody
    “Attention Macleans staffers and Paul Wells in particular:
    not calling names and being shrill,
    does not equate with being
    “disengaged”.”

    Uhhhh…. take a formal logic course, Kody, and stop using double negatives.

  234. Bill Casey plug!

  235. Was it just me, or was there a comment, while Harper said, “check our platform…”, (from E. May?): “Where is it?” Bravo!

  236. May:

    Harper breaks the law,

    is a liar.

    Quick someone suggest Harper should be in prison!!

  237. When May is on, she’s on. She flaked out a bit in the middle tonight but she just took it Harper very nicely.

  238. Elizabeth May is fantastic. Maybe I’ll vote Green…I’ll just pretend I didn’t read their platform.

  239. Dion just accused Layton of

    “quellishment”.

    Again, I’m not sure what it means, but I bet its not nice.

  240. 4500 questions, ten initially selected, two more cut, and question number eight made it? Feh.

  241. Harper the law and contract breaker, May style. He lets her vent.

    Layton enumerated Liberal promises that fell by the wayside. Good jab there Jack.

    Paiken did a fine job tonight.

  242. someone call harper a liar!

    That’s goes without saying.

  243. May,

    shouting and interrupting.

    classy.

  244. I think all the candidates did very well and it was a good, well run debate.

  245. I agree with Mike. At least in the sense this debate ain’t gonna shift votes around too much.

  246. I think you guys are a waste of time. You call yourselves journalists – more like a bunch of kindergarten kids. No wonder Canadians are disgusted with the MSM.

  247. May: Interrupting Paikin as he attempted to end the debate. I noticed she attempted to interrupt Paikin at the end of each segment also.

  248. Well, it’s over. Dion didn’t get anywhere, he let himself get too flustered at the start of the debate by his poor English. He had some good moments, but not enough to get him the top job.

    If anyone kept Harper from picking up seats tonight it was May. She had her crazy moments but her attacks on Harper were devastating and scathing, especially that last one.

    Harper was decent, but not as strong as in past debates, like I said before, he’s just going through the motions because he knows the result at the end of all of this is another minority government. More confidence vote games, in other words, because he can’t do what he wants and relax.

  249. Nothing about food safety? What a disappointment.

  250. Is this for publication?

  251. We end on a note of Canadian smugness.

    It’s Pavlovian with you Coyne, isn’t it?

    *rolls eyes*

  252. Show of hands: How many of you were playing a drinking game or Lingo Bingo?

  253. You would need more time than required to answer May…broad charges….maybe best to ignore….too late now, and if she is stealing votes it isnt from Cons.

    The question is does she impress the Libs in Central Nova enough to vote for her?

    She is yappy, and she wont wear well over time.

    So if May and Layton were on a desert island who would make the other one throw themselves into the sea out of frustration?

  254. “So if May and Layton were on a desert island who would make the other one throw themselves into the sea out of frustration?”

    Neither. They would reproduce and spawn a ultra annoying leftist demon child the likes of which the world has never seen.

  255. “Paul Wells – This is an odd little thing. Layton delivered the will-you-listen-to-the-premiers-who-don’t-like-your-green-shift question that has been a major Conservative point this week, and Harper didn’t perk up as he listened. Layton was carrying Harper’s water — only temprorarily — and Harper didn’t seem to notice. Trivial, but it added to my general impression these two nights that the PM is a bit disengaged from all this.”

    I think Dion had the best response to this saying that he’s elected by Canadians and not the provinces. It’s something you so rarely hear for some reason.

  256. News conference time!
    (For me, it’s dodge-the-interpreter time. Being bilingual can be painful, folks!)

  257. Well thank God that’s over with until the next election. And if Harpy gets a majority, we won’t even have to worry about that!

  258. Go NapolDION Dynamite!!!!!!!!!!!

  259. Gilles for PM!!!

  260. I’m sorry, I should have said:
    You think it’s easy being bilingual?

  261. Ti-guy “if Harpy gets a majority”

    walk to the light of Conservatism.

    Come ti-guy,

    take my hand,

    it’ll be alright.

  262. “walk to the light of Conservatism.

    Come ti-guy,

    take my hand,

    it’ll be alright.”

    BIFF!!

  263. “Question Period is a poor training ground for level playing fields. ”

    Especially when you skip training in favour of having van Loan be your human shield.

  264. I dont think Dion was that strong…he didnt make mistakes but that wasnt his task….Layton looked like the opposition leader and May looked like 3rd party…duceppe just shouldnt be there, bloody free rider…..I really think the loser was Dion, not becasue he was bad but because he just wasnt a big factor.

    I do believe the Liberal vote will be dispirited, they either wont show up or they are going to vote NDP or Green, Green especially if May picks up Mo from this.

    Still say if harper gets 38% then he has a majority, just like Chretien got with a split right and a strong Bloc.

    Dion has got to really be regretting May being there, as does Layton. Harper is just irritated by her and being thankful he doesnt have to listen to her again.

    On that last point, even if she wins a seat she wont have party status and her questions will be few and far between.

    Winner of the debate

    1. May/Layton
    2 Harper Dion Duceppe

    In terms of effect

    1 May
    2 Layton
    3 Harper
    big drop now
    4 Dion

    Duceppe doesnt matter other than he sucks up oxygen and expels a greenhouse gas.

  265. This has been fun, you guys! I’m especially enjoying the Maclean’s folks (see above) express honest opinion on the fly, in the heat of the moment, just like we common commentators. Sweet!

  266. In my humble view, Harper won the debate.

    The others looked like chirpy lilliputians in his presence.

    Mr. Harper deserves a renewed mandate.

    Mr. Dion needs to move on to another line of work. Why were Liberals and certain pundits so enamoured with this academic pretender for Prime Minister?

  267. *yawn*

    Harpy does surprisingly well when he’s not calling his political opponents murderous terrorists.

  268. The verdict is in : Harper’s lipstick shade is ‘mango’.

  269. You mean in your biased view, Jarrid.

  270. Fantastic debate. Pakin did a great job managing it. Glad I skipped the Palin debate (apparently it was a non-event).

    My impression (without having seen any of the punditry): Dion and Layton both lost, since neither managed to confront Harper forcefully and directly. Duceppe looked like the real opposition! (I hear he’s shoring up support in Toronto tomorrow). May was just wasting airtime. Harper defended as well as could be expected in a 4-on-1 fight.

  271. As opposed to your unbiased view Scott?

  272. I was struck by the fact that 2 and one half years in office has matured Harper.

    I was also struck at how the 4 opposition parties are all so left wing. It was like a Woodstock reunion, the way they talked about solutions to our problems. You expect it from Duceppe, who was a maoist into the 1980’s. You expect it from May. Layton was demagogic as usual.

    But truly the saddest case is Dion. What has he done to the Liberal party. He’s turned it into a left-wing vehicle. October 15th can’t come too quickly for the Liberals to get rid of that left-wing train wreck. Good grief!

  273. The most infuriating part for me was the piling on by the opposition parties against intensity based emissions targets for Co2. Harper perhaps should have let them know the ONLY OTHER WAY to lower Co2 emissions, besides reducing the intensity of emission, is to LOWER ECONOMIC ACTIVITY. I’d like to see them defend the latter!!! Harper likely figured this simple argument would go over the publics heads / couldn’t be made in 30 seconds, but I wish he had made it. It’d being MUCH NEEDED clarity to the global warming debate.

  274. Jarrid: I feel your pain when it comes to the Liberals move leftward (I jumped ship sometime in 2005), but my premonition is that Rae wins the leadership and the drift continues.

  275. Jarrid, are you trying to say the Liberals are left wing now? :)

  276. Dion better hope people stopped watching after the 1st hour. His performance dropped dramatically.

    May was intelligent but acted like a barbarian.

    Layton may have given Harper his majority tonight, and taken Stornoway. His line against Dion was pretty close to a knockout.

  277. They’ve moved further left under Dion. With Chretien, Martin and even Trudeau they talked the left-wing talk during the writ period but they governed more in the center, well sometimes center-left.

    But Dion is the real McCoy, a true principled lefty. Remember when Layton predicted they would never elect Dion as leader because he was too principled? People sense he’ll actually carry out some of the looney policies. Under Chretien, the Libs did squat on Kyoto, cause Chretien wanted it that way.

  278. People who say that Dion did great remind me of those Russian Ice Skating /Dance judges in Salt Lake.

  279. Exactly! It’s the sense that Dion actually believes and would enact what he says that scared the hell out of me! I was totally fine with Chretien and Martin feigning compassion for a decade if that’s what it takes to elect a centreist government.

    Conventional wisdom is that Dion’s earnestness is his strength. I think it scares sensible people away.

  280. You never appreciate professional spin doctors so much as when you read amateurish ones like jarrid and john there.

  281. Good evening Demosthenes. Well what’s your take on the debate? I’ll understand if you reply “no comment”, I don’t mean to twist your arm.

  282. In a Harper v Dion matchup, Dion won this debate by a wide margin. Expect the polls to tighten to within 5 percentage points by mid next-week.

  283. That’s a mighty bold prediction Anon. I’ll have to write that one down. I hope this isn’t an attempt to emulate Kody, people that try to go toe to toe with Kody usually come out second-best.

    By the way, when you were scoring the Harper v. Dion segments, did you allocate extra points to Dion for looking like he was going to start bawling right there on the set?

  284. Anon,

    Dion’s got a chance at taking government.

    Hehehe,

    Jarrid, he’s being sarcastic,

    he meant it as a joke,

    I’m assuming.

  285. (9:04) Ahoj, Jaka Laytonova. Jak se mate?

  286. Jarrid:
    “They’ve moved further left under Dion. With Chretien, Martin and even Trudeau they talked the left-wing talk during the writ period but they governed more in the center, well sometimes center-left. ”

    yeppers, I agree with Jarrid. Dion’s actually scary too, in a way. He really means it. I kinda want a Tory minority. The Liberals’ knives will come out, Ignatieff will take the leader’s job. He’s a centrist, more to my tastes.

  287. It never ceases to amaze me that people can’t see the obvious choice before them. It happen when the whole world could see that George W. Bush was wrong for the USA and the world, yet Americans voted for him twice. As a returning Canadian, it stands out a mile just how corrupt and manipulative the Harper government is with Canadians. And even though Dion is not strong in debate he is the strongest leader when it comes to policy and bringing good government to Canada. This is mind boggling just how gullible Canadians are. You threw out Mulroney because you realized you made the wrong choice. From me to you – DON’T DO IT AGAIN. Elect the forward thinking ideas of the Liberal Party.

  288. Pingback: Canadian Leadership Debate Liveblogging Round-up - ScribbleLive - Your Content Marketing Software