Donald Fehr on what NHL players want — and why they’re underpaid

In conversation with Jonathon Gatehouse

by Jonathon Gatehouse

On what NHL players want, why they’re underpaid and their message to the fans

Stephanie Noritz

For hockey fans, there’s something depressingly familiar about the current battle between the National Hockey League and its players. The lockout, which began at the stroke of midnight on Sept. 15, is the third in the past 18 years, all of them overseen by commissioner Gary Bettman. And the issue is the same as it ever was: money. In fact, the only significant difference this time around might be who is leading the players. Donald Fehr, the new executive director of the NHL Players’ Association, led pro baseball’s union for a quarter of a century, before riding to the rescue of his defeated and demoralized hockey brethren. Tough and determined, he’s every bit as stubborn as the man he’s facing across the table.

Q: In the run-up to the lockout, there have been proposals, counter-proposals, and a lot of numbers thrown around. Just how far apart are the league and the players?

A: It comes down to this. The players made enormous concessions in the last lockout, and took a 25 per cent salary reduction, which worked out to more than $3 billion over the life of the agreement. And the league has experienced seven straight years of record revenue growth. So then we came into bargaining, and the owners’ initial proposal called for another 24 per cent reduction, or $450 million a year, assuming revenues never grow. It was way over the top, and way outside the bounds. The equivalent from the players would have been for us to say we want 71 per cent of all hockey-related revenues (HRR). So now the owners have said they only want a reduction of 17.5 per cent, and that they’ll phase it in a little bit, but it’s still well over $300 million a year. So we’re hundreds of millions of dollars apart on compensation.

Q: At this point, is there anything the two sides agree on?

A: The two sides finally agree on an accounting system. Originally, they had proposed to change all the definitions of HRR, but they now agree it makes little sense to throw out a system everybody understands and is comfortable with. We’ve had some good discussions on ancillary, non-economic issues. And we have indicated that we’re willing to move in their direction by limiting the future growth of salaries. But we want the owners to do their part too, and grow the game.

Q: Despite the NHL’s record revenues, Gary Bettman says it’s a money-losing business. Do you give any credence to that?

A: I can’t comment precisely because although we have a lot of financial information from the teams, we’ve also signed non-disclosure agreements. But you haven’t seen an explanation from the owners saying we have to have this because this particular team needs this additional amount of money. In fact, all of their proposals would provide similar cost savings whether you were Toronto or the New York Rangers or the Phoenix Coyotes. And to us that says this is simply about trying to reduce costs for everyone, rather than trying to solve problems with particular franchises. One of the difficulties we’re having right now is trying to figure out exactly what the effect of the owners’ proposals would be. We’ve asked for examples of how they would change the balance sheets of each of the teams. So far, we haven’t had an answer to that—whether that’s because they don’t know, or because they don’t think it will help their position, I can’t say. But it makes it difficult to do financial negotiations.

Q: This makes it three contract negotiations in a row where the players have been locked out. You’ve said that hockey needs to get beyond this adversarial cycle. But how?

A: On a philosophical basis, we need to come to an agreement that equitably distributes the benefits and the risks, and allows everyone to go forward together and build this game into something much bigger. And if we have trouble spots, we have to fix them, rather than pretend all the teams are exactly the same, and should be treated exactly the same way.

Q: Is there anything about hockey’s economics that makes it different from other pro sports?

A: The one place I think hockey is different is that it’s far better positioned to develop the game on the international level and become the first transcontinental sport, with an audience in North America and Europe. And I think that we’ve got to find a way to take advantage of that.

Q: The labour agreements that the NFL and NBA signed after their lockouts last year resulted in 50/50 revenue splits. Your guys have already indicated a willingness to reduce their share from the current 57 per cent. Is that an admission that they’re getting too much of the pie?

A: If you ask the players what they deserve, they’ll tell you they’d be happy with a free market where the clubs pay what they want—as long as they don’t conspire about it. The very nature of a cap means that the players are underpaid with regards to what their free-market value is. That’s the whole point.

Q: Gary Bettman has said one of the reasons the NHL has locked you out is that the players were slow coming to the table. Why did it take so long to get the formal talks under way?

A: That’s not a fair criticism. We told them that we were ready to talk immediately after they served us notice that they were terminating the collective bargaining agreement in May, and it took them a month to get organized. And secondly, if at any time over the winter they had wanted to say, “Here’s the situation, here are our numbers, here are our proposals,” they could have done that. They didn’t.

Q: At the end of the day, this is a labour battle that pits millionaires against billionaires. Is there any reason for the public to feel sympathy for either side?

A: We know there’s a great public interest in this. And all we can do for the fans who buy the tickets and watch on TV is to tell them the truth as clearly and succinctly as we can. And we’ve been doing that, and we’ll continue to do that. But millionaires and billionaires are not the same thing. People can imagine becoming a millionaire. But even if you put aside a million dollars a year, it would take you 1,000 years to become a billionaire. So they are not even remotely comparable. The only thing they have in common is that they both end in the letters a-i-r-e-s.

Q: The NHLPA brought actions before the provincial labour relations boards in Quebec and Alberta seeking local injunctions against the lockout. Were you hoping for a decision that would keep those teams playing, or simply getting paid?

A: Under Canadian law there are certain things an employer has to do before they can lock out their employees. And we didn’t think the NHL had satisfied those preconditions. Our interest was in not having a lockout and continuing to negotiate. But the owners couldn’t get there fast enough.

Q: You’ve been through this type of situation many times in your career. At this point, are you optimistic or pessimistic?

A: Day by day, personally, sometimes I get a little up, sometimes I get a little down, but basically I’m pretty flat. And the reason is that you can’t analyze and make judgments and represent your constituents well if you let emotion, or happy feelings or dire feelings, interfere with that. You get up every day and try to figure it out and you keep doing that.

Q: What has the tone of the discussions been like so far?

A: For the most part, professional. They’ve been blunt. Sometimes with a little bit of a light mood, but usually they’ve been a lot heavier. From the players’ perspective, it’s hard for it to be light because this is a lockout of choice, not necessity. There’s no law or reason for the owners to lock us out of training camp. They’re doing it because they perceive it as some sort of advantage. And it’s part of the playbook. It’s exactly what happened in basketball, football and the last time around in hockey.

Q: Just before the lockout began, you had a meeting in New York that drew almost 300 players. What message were you trying to send to the owners and the fans?

A: We believe in complete openness. Any player that wants to come to a negotiating session can do so and ask Gary Bettman or the owners a question, and form and express their own opinion. The owners don’t do that. They drastically limit who can come to meetings. So what it tells me when we have almost half our membership show up is that the players are involved and interested and they want to participate. I take it as an extraordinarily good sign about the unity and cohesion of the players, and their willingness to do whatever has to be done to get an appropriate agreement.

Q: A lot of fans are very angry, and very worried that they won’t see hockey before the end of 2012, or perhaps even lose another season. What’s your message to these people?

A: First of all, I hope they’re wrong. The players are going to do whatever they can to get a fair agreement and get it done as soon as they can. But what you have to remember is that it takes two to make a deal. And there’s only been one side talking about shutdowns, losing large parts of the season, saying, “Give me what I want right now.” And that’s the same side that has done it twice before. And I would just ask the fans to remember that.




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Donald Fehr on what NHL players want — and why they’re underpaid

  1. Let’s face it, any middle-aged man (Gary Bettman is 60) with zero athletic ability, zero business sense (he’s actually produced less hockey during his 20-year tenure as NHL commissioner than all his predecessors combined) and who makes $8 million a year in salary is concerned about one thing and one thing only: himself. When he speaks just switch sports or channels as fast as possible.

    • I don’t understand what you mean by he’s “produced less hockey during his 20-year tenure as NHL commissioner than all his predecessors combined.” He has overseen revenue growth from $400 million to more than $3 billion. That’s why is salary is what it is.

    • MarliesMan is right.

      Bettman has turned the NHL into a major sports league globally and BOTH the owners AND players have him to thank for skyrocketing franchise values, gate revenues and soaring salaries.

      You could argue that without him, the players would be looking at 57% of A LOT LESS. And NBA and NFL players make 50% of revenue and NHL players want a bigger portion than both of those leagues? Why? What makes NHL players so damn valuable?

      And please name ONE EXECUTIVE ON EARTH that has turned his organization from 400M to 3B and makes $8M. Any other executive who could accomplish this would be looking at a $30-$50M salary.

      • The players currently make 57% of “Hockey Related Revenue”. “HRR” does not include all league revenues. That’s what people need to understand. When you factor in “total” league revenues that the NHL excludes from the players’ share (and we are talking hundreds of millions more dollars) it is close to a 50/50 split.

  2. This douche should run for politics.

  3. I like you Mr Fehr, but get your head out your ass and advise the players to do the same. I am fed up with being about you and Gary Bettman. The fact that Bettman wanted to meet with you last summer and you claimed that you weren’t ready…shame on you for that…putting us fans and the season at risk at the last minute…Jesus, you ain’t gonna budge Bettman, sorry!! Ain’t gonna happen…I wish it were so, but it ain’t! Get your ego’s out of the way and get the work done…aren’t you guys getting paid a massive salary to actually negotiate…now both of you bums ain’t even doing that!! The players are asking way too much, selfish players!! getting millions to perform and you claim to want more…in this world, unfortunately..the owners own the “ranch”. NOw, Bettman, please retire!! We need u to end this mess!! You have embarrassed yourself to the point of no return…t’is time you leave and that is a fact…Gary, they boo you everytime you show your face at any game!! Our sport needs a new ambassador that is respected…The thing is that you have owners that control whether you stay or go, but the problem is…most owners have 0 heart and emotions…so we don’t expect you to understand our emotional need for the sport. You are all pigs….get out the way and let the sport breath…You billionaires are rich enough, WTF!! It comes down to control and letting the players know who controls who…in which the game and spirit is lost….Shame on all your houses!!

    • You obviously read Jim Devellano’s comments, but still fail to understand that Gary Bettman does what NHL owners tell him to do. Direct your hate at him if you wish, but it’s misguided.

  4. HAD ENOUGH OF THE HOCKEY LOCK OUT?
    ON SATURDAY OCTOBER 13, 2012
    NOON TO 4PM
    JOIN
    “FANS ON STRIKE”
    JUST SHOW UP AT YOUR HOME ARENA
    TORONTO AT THE AIR CANADA CENTER
    CALGARY AT THE SCOTIABANK SADDLEDOME
    EDMONTON AT THE REXALL PLACE
    MONTREAL AT THE BELL CENTER
    OTTAWA AT THE SCOTIABANK PLACE
    VANCOUVER AT THE ROGERS ARENA
    WINNIPEG AT THE MTS CENTRE
    WEAR YOUR FAVORITE JERSEY
    TURN IT INSIDE OUT
    VOICE YOUR VIEWS ABOUT THE LOCKOUT
    PASS IT ON

  5. Fehr is ANOTHER union rep who does not care about the public. How can players who make SO MUCH MONEY complain? Complain about what?? Working conditions? Their health?
    I do not respect Bettman much, but he does represent the owners who pay the people’s salary. It is not as if these players are poor.
    Fehr has ruined baseball (not a fan since the strike) now he is ruining hockey.
    Go back to the US and ruin their economy and life, NOT HERE!!

    • Care about the public?
      You have no skin in the game, so get over yourself already princess.
      The players are just asking for a fair deal. Asking for and 24% cut to their wages after they already agreed to a 25% last time around was DESIGNED to ensure a lockout.
      Honestly, the revenues of the northern teams is astronomical and there’s no excuse for the owners pocketing all that money by using southern teams that shouldn’t have been created in the first place as an excuse.
      If the league was serious about ensuring a fair distribution, it would be moving towards revenue sharing or letting failed teams go under so that the players could be redistributed.

      • Phil, do you work for the NHLPA or CUPE? Your “logic” does not make any sense. Do you realize we are NOT dealing with someone at Tim Hortons getting minimum wage?? I have no idea where you get your numbers from, but wages did not decrease by 25%, your “credibility” is done.
        I agree with your last sentence, but that will never happen.
        These players are overpaid, not caring individuals. When was the last time the NHLPA did some real charity work for its community??

  6. I’m just guessing, based on actions and what has been said so far, but I think the owners are obviously anti union except for the ‘union of owners’ and the players all know that they will never get a fair agreement unless they stand up together. If they give in, the owners willl just keep on taking advantage. There are a bunch of things wrong with the current situation and one of them is the owners giving extravagant amounts to some top players which leaves less for the people who are putting their health on the line in a career that can have a short span for an unfortunate few. Also Bettman has tried to grow the game in unfertile ground (the US) and has paid less attention to the fertile areas such as Hamilton and Quebec city. I wouldnt be surprised to see the owners try to start up the league with replacement players and I hope this backfires and singes the whole lot of them,

  7. I have an idea for both sides of this dispute. Best offer arbitration shot out style! Bring in an arbitrator and have both the union and owners table their best possible offer and let a 3rd party decide which is most fair. I think the 2 offers would be pretty damn close!

  8. Screw the PA, the lockout is their fault. They refuse to negotiate and then blame the owners who follow through on what they’ve been saing they would do for over a year?

  9. If another season is lost the NHL will change dramatically when it is resurrected. Some markets have never recovered from the last lockout. Why would that situation improve if they lose a second season in 8 years? It’s easy to understand both perspectives. The owners “own” and therefore assume the lions share of the risk. The players “play”. Most players would never have a chance to make anything close to what they make in the NHL anywhere else. Very few would make anything close to their NHL salaries in the KHL. The players think the NHL will have to do a deal before the U.S. television contracts start. And so we will wait. My suggestion…find you closest CHL team and follow them. The hockey is impressive…best part of it is….there aren’t any floaters.

  10. Just cancel the season. Who cares? It’s entertainment and nothing more. After a couple years of NO hockey than the players and the owners should be ready to sit down and have productive negotiations.

  11. Game misconduct for Bettman–does he even know what that is considering he never played hockey? Get a clue and end this petty crap. We want hockey which means we’ll be paying to see it. As long as Noones playing noone’s making the $$ to fight over. So

  12. GUYS GIVE YOUR HEADS A SHAKE. DO YOU THINK ANYONE BESIDES YOU CAN GO TO THERE BOSS AND SAY ” I THINK YOU MADE TO MUCH MONEY LAST YEAR I NEED MORE” GO BACK TO WORK YOUR AVERAGE SALARY IS MORE THAN THE AVERAGE PERSON MAKES IN A LIFE TIME. THINK ABOUT THAT. YOU ALL MAKE ME SICK YOU GET PAID MILLIONS TO PLAY A KIDS GAME BE THANKFUL FOR THAT

  13. I will never go to another NHL game if there is one regular season game missed. I’m done with the NHL and its players your both spoiled little kids

  14. I agree with Rametag…cancel the whole seson or two. I for one will no longer purchase any NHL apparel for a very long time!

  15. Sorry — the players are underpaid? I have some friends who work for the Senators, selling corporate and public tickets, who have been laid off because of this. They make on average $35K-$40K and fill the seats with fans that pay the prices so the players and owners can make millions. Yet Fehr wants us to believe the players are hard done by? Try telling that to the people making $35K who have just been laid off and are on pogey. Who’s fighting for them? It sure as hell isn’t the NHL or the NHLPA.

  16. Bettman kept the team in Phoenix so the NHL could make their business case. If Phoenix had been allowed to move to Hamilton, that franchise would be making big money … that’s the last thing the owners wanted before this round of contract talks.

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