136

Poll: Canadians’ view of science influenced by education

Least educated are most likely to shun expertise


 

A new Ekos Research poll shows that even though the Conservatives have a hold on traditionalist voters who value morality and decency over science, they need to reach out to voters who value scientific knowledge and expert civil service advice if they want to get the 15 percentage points needed to form a majority government. The poll shows that anti-expertise and skepticism of science rise with socioeconomic vulnerability and age. For example, new Canadians are less committed to knowledge and expertise in government decision-making than the native born. Also, those who responded with less marketable experience and skills were more opposed to scientific knowledge and other forms of expertise, with the biggest tension being between the college-educated and wealthier university-educated elites. The poll suggested that showing a bit of respect for science and expertise may help win university-educated voters, since most Canadians lean toward the view that knowledge, expertise and evidence are crucial to societal decision making, and that science and expertise are undervalued in the country.

The Globe and Mail


 
Filed under:

Poll: Canadians’ view of science influenced by education

  1. Somebody should have mentioned that to Clement.. several months ago.

  2. Somebody should have mentioned that to Clement.. several months ago.

    • Big problem there: Clement is one of those who despises science & research. How could this research possibly influence him?

      • he probably despises losing his seat in parliament more

  3. The next election will be the IGNORANT against the INFORMED.

    Remember the CENSUS, the IGNORANT won.

    Remember what The Harper says, Don't listen to the SCIENCE, Don't listen to the EXPERTS, Don't read the studies or reports … GO WITH HOW YOU FEEL.

    GO WITH HOW YOU FEEL ?

    WHAT the is that ? Its actually PROPAGANDA, a form of MOB RULE … its designed to get you going.

    BE IGNORANT … IT FEELS GOOD … the PM says so.

    The Problem is … DEMOCRACIES DEPEND ON AN INFORMED POPULATION.

    Thanks KING Harper for advancing us all … hey kids, be ignorant.

    PS Does the Science Minister really believe the earth is 6000 years old and man walked with dinosaurs ?

  4. The next election will be the IGNORANT against the INFORMED.

    Remember the CENSUS, the IGNORANT won.

    Remember what The Harper says, Don't listen to the SCIENCE, Don't listen to the EXPERTS, Don't read the studies or reports … GO WITH HOW YOU FEEL.

    GO WITH HOW YOU FEEL ?

    WHAT the is that ? Its actually PROPAGANDA, a form of MOB RULE … its designed to get you going.

    BE IGNORANT … IT FEELS GOOD … the PM says so.

    The Problem is … DEMOCRACIES DEPEND ON AN INFORMED POPULATION.

    Thanks KING Harper for advancing us all … hey kids, be ignorant.

    PS Does the Science Minister really believe the earth is 6000 years old and man walked with dinosaurs ?

    • All sides fail to listen to experts from time to time, mostly the CPC lately, but let's not paint this as a picture of "all LPC supporters are super smart" and "all CPC voters sit around brandishing guns quoting bible verses hating on scientists". Every party is guilty of ignoring experts when it doesn't necessarily fit their platform (see Corporate Income Taxes).

      Also, in some cases, experts by and large disagree on things. Every issue isn't black and white.

      So basically we've got two choices with this upcoming election. We can all call each other liars, idiots and other names when we support a particular policy, or we can try to have some genuine debate.

      • I couldn't agree more.

      • CD Howe said it best: "Neither side has a monopoly on sons of b*tches."

  5. "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"

    Isaac Asimov, Newsweek interview. 1980.

  6. "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"

    Isaac Asimov, Newsweek interview. 1980.

    • Amazing how such a "cult" as the Americans, can have the best universities in the World, attended by the smartest all over the World, and who is the richest, most powerful, most compassionate helpful Country , recognized in the World, who basically keeps 32 million people safe and well supplied,(at the minimum) etc! What was I trying to say? God, the praises of the great United States causes one to lose track! Need More?

      • I suppose when you've got 300 million people you're gonna have a lot of smart people (see: aforementioned top American universities) and a lot of stupid people (see: reality TV).

  7. All sides fail to listen to experts from time to time, mostly the CPC lately, but let's not paint this as a picture of "all LPC supporters are super smart" and "all CPC voters sit around brandishing guns quoting bible verses hating on scientists". Every party is guilty of ignoring experts when it doesn't necessarily fit their platform (see Corporate Income Taxes).

    Also, in some cases, experts by and large disagree on things. Every issue isn't black and white.

    So basically we've got two choices with this upcoming election. We can all call each other liars, idiots and other names when we support a particular policy, or we can try to have some genuine debate.

  8. I couldn't agree more.

  9. The anti intellectual Republican world view is alive and well in Harper's creationist cabinet. That Harper prefers to appear on Fox than Canadian networks is very telling. Harper's blind and Biblical support for Israel has destroyed Canada's reputation for being fair and even handed. Harper will not get the intellectual vote in his lifetime. His closed dictatorial style and disrespect for democracy is hurting us every day.

  10. Amazing how such a "cult" as the Americans, can have the best universities in the World, attended by the smartest all over the World, and who is the richest, most powerful, most compassionate helpful Country , recognized in the World, who basically keeps 32 million people safe and well supplied,(at the minimum) etc! What was I trying to say? God, the praises of the great United States causes one to lose track! Need More?

  11. The anti intellectual Republican world view is alive and well in Harper's creationist cabinet. That Harper prefers to appear on Fox than Canadian networks is very telling. Harper's blind and Biblical support for Israel has destroyed Canada's reputation for being fair and even handed. Harper will not get the intellectual vote in his lifetime. His closed dictatorial style and disrespect for democracy is hurting us every day.

  12. Worry not about the learning of science, today! Worry more about those educated in the times of the loon liberals french only world, leaving us with stats canada findings of 80% of Canadians unable to read their prescription instructions! If that doesn't impress you, reread your own stupid posts! lol

  13. CD Howe said it best: "Neither side has a monopoly on sons of b*tches."

  14. Worry not about the learning of science, today! Worry more about those educated in the times of the loon liberals french only world, leaving us with stats canada findings of 80% of Canadians unable to read their prescription instructions! If that doesn't impress you, reread your own stupid posts! lol

  15. I suppose when you've got 300 million people you're gonna have a lot of smart people (see: aforementioned top American universities) and a lot of stupid people (see: reality TV).

  16. Well, since they aren't anything like that….and have nothing like that….you'll be very lonely at your 'worship' services.

    Yeah, I know….you're joking. LOL

  17. Enough with the jokes Sot.

  18. Funy how the stupid rightwingers vote for Harper who cut funding for climate research, appointed a creationist as Minister of Science, is privatizing the National Research Coundil, gagged public servants at Environment Canada, and installed a convicted criminal in a poisition that was supposed to work for clean energy.

    The Conservatives are the Party of Stupid.

  19. So we'll put you down for Team Name Calling?

  20. No put me down as anti-stupid and pro-intelligent.

  21. No put me down as anti-stupid and pro-intelligent.

    • I love this Holly Stick. You live in Calgary where every riding is held by the Conservatives. Do you call all of your colleagues and neighbors stupid to their faces?

      • They are not all Conservative supporters.

    • "No put me down as anti-stupid and pro-intelligent."-said blind partisanship as it boldly marched into the new decade…

    • Perhaps you could demonstrate by making each and every one of your comments as intelligent as possible.

      • I don't make stupid comments like this one by hosertohoosiers:

        "…Markets in agricultural goods can better predict the weather than meteorologists, both because they effectively aggregate large amounts of information, and because they have significant stakes in the outcomes they are predicting (relative to meteorologists, who face no consequences for making bad predictions)…"

        • I'm not trying to defend stupid policies or stupid ideas, or even stupid people for that matter. I'm only suggesting that you focus on the stupid policies and/or stupid ideas, and hold back with the "attacks" against the stupid people.

          Eg, what's the point of adding "The Conservatives are the Party of Stupid." as the last line in a post just up above a bit? It makes it so easy for your "foes" to dismiss you out of hand, rather than actually counter your arguments.

          Btw, generally I have found htoh to be quite intelligent, even though I might disagree with at least a few of his posts…I'd have to do some background research on the snippet you provided to change my mind about that.

          • The Party of Stupid made the long-form census useless, costing taxpayers extra money and making the government less well-informed. Harper made the stupid decisions; compounded it further by stupidly refusing to fback down when most of Canada told him it was a stupid decision, Clement stupidly lied about it, forcing the Chief Statistician to resign, and the stupid Conservative supporters here tried to argue in favour of the stupid decision.

            The stupid Conservative supporters here also tend to be AGW deniers.

            Anti-science, anti-intelligence, anti-education. Sorry, I can not rein in my contempt for these stupid fools for the sake of not offending your delicate sensibilities.

          • Yeah, it is duly noted that you can't rein in your contempt. If your goal here is to simply register your contempt, then by all means, do not change your style at all. And my "delicate sensibilities" aren't really the issue here – believe me, I've become very adept at blowing past the majority of the belligerent posts here.

            But if you might be interested in testing the validity of your own assumptions and perhaps providing some possibly relevant information to your opponents in a manner that might (not will, only might) help them to reconsider some of their assumptions then using "stupid" eight or nine times in one post is unlikely to be helpful.

  22. Science has been undermined by the global warming scam. People who haven't recieved extra indoctrination at university are of course less likely to believe in the pseudo-sciences because it takes a lot of effort to overcome common sense.

  23. Science has been undermined by the global warming scam. People who haven't recieved extra indoctrination at university are of course less likely to believe in the pseudo-sciences because it takes a lot of effort to overcome common sense.

    • Once upon a time, common sense said the earth was flat, and the sun revolved around it.

    • Here's one right now Mark and the intellectual….speak of the devil….LOL

      • Such is the price of attempting to take the middle road i suppose. You see to find much more satisfaction in blathering extremism anyways. Personally I'm sick to tears of all this 'experts are our incorruptible betters' nonsense. Everything said that involves politics should be taken with some caution. Climate change science notwithstanding (although all questions to the scientific processes have been effectively shouted down at this point).

        • Extremism is dangerous, and I abhor it.

          No one….except you…said 'experts are our incorruptible betters'

          But if you're about to have heart surgery, would you prefer an expert surgeon…or the janitor…to do it?

          • Judging by your past posts you revel in extremism. I wasn't quoting anyone as a matter of fact. I was describing the attitude many take on whenever someone questions the findings of many of these 'experts'. It all depends on the issue really. Are they telling you the chemical content of food or are they telling you what the latest scientific method of raising your children is? You cannot rely one perspective alone to determine how to think or live your life.

          • LOL I don't know what you're classifying as 'extremism', but I'm a centrist. Always have been.

            No, by all means get a second opinion on your heart operation….but from another surgeon, not a janitor.

          • You? Centrist? I hope that's some kind of joke. Reread your posts and perhaps do some self searching. But ultimately you cannot govern your life or opinions solely by science and statistics. Both have the potential to be flawed and both change over time. At one time the "experts" said that radiation was healthy for you and that babies should sleep face down.

          • I'm 64. I know exactly what I think, so I don't need to do any 'soul-searching'

            If you don't go by known data…what do you go by? Faith? Thank you, no.

            Babies can sleep any way they want to….and you have radiation in your body normally

          • You are by no means a centrist. My point is is that both scientific findings and statistics can, and frequently are flawed. Exposing yourself to nuclear radiation can give you cancer, Babies can suffocate if they sleep on their front. Two things that have changed in scientific opinion since the 50's among many other things. In another 70 years many of our cutting edge scientific findings will look like a hilarious joke. At some point you have to detach yourself from the specifics and look at the big picture.

          • Yes dear, I am. Have been for a lifetime.

            You have radiation in your body at all times. It's normal.

            Babies sleeping on their side or backs can also die.

            Apparently you don't know what science is….it's the search for knowledge, not a set theology from a sky fairy. The whole point of science is that you learn as you go.

  24. "Poll: Canadians' view of science influenced by education"

    Good gawd … that's so much like British dry humor I'm not sure if we have a comedian here or not. How does one understand such a comment (never mind a headline)? Is this type of thing an anomaly where such is not the case in other countries? How are the Mexicans or Italians view of science influenced … if not by education? …… Ok. Unfortunately I get it and it's worse a joke than I make it out to be. There is a point of view that suggests that "Science" should be looked at from a religious point of view. That will solve all sorts of ….. inquisitions.

  25. "Poll: Canadians' view of science influenced by education"

    Good gawd … that's so much like British dry humor I'm not sure if we have a comedian here or not. How does one understand such a comment (never mind a headline)? Is this type of thing an anomaly where such is not the case in other countries? How are the Mexicans or Italians view of science influenced … if not by education? …… Ok. Unfortunately I get it and it's worse a joke than I make it out to be. There is a point of view that suggests that "Science" should be looked at from a religious point of view. That will solve all sorts of ….. inquisitions.

    • Have you ever seen the percentage of Americans who believe the earth was created 6000 years ago, that we were created exactly as we are now, and that we rode dinosaurs?

      You think that group ever got much education?

      Most other countries….outside of outright theocracies….aren't as religious as Americans.

      The two go together.

  26. I love this Holly Stick. You live in Calgary where every riding is held by the Conservatives. Do you call all of your colleagues and neighbors stupid to their faces?

  27. Big problem there: Clement is one of those who despises science & research. How could this research possibly influence him?

  28. Once upon a time, common sense said the earth was flat, and the sun revolved around it.

  29. "No put me down as anti-stupid and pro-intelligent."-said blind partisanship as it boldly marched into the new decade…

  30. Mark is right. When you've got 300 million people you can't really describe them as any one thing. Let's not pretend that we in Canada are too much better.

  31. Mark is right. When you've got 300 million people you can't really describe them as any one thing. Let's not pretend that we in Canada are too much better.

    • Well it was an American who said…."No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."

      But yes, we have the same ignorance here in Canada. Probably even the same percentage, but here that means far fewer people so we don't notice it as much.

      • Many go broke doing such a thing. Just not the monstrous socialist tycoons that are "too big to fail".

        • LOL 'monstrous socialist tycoons' eh?

          You do realize that's an oxymoron?

          • It should be. But it isn't. Corporations like GM are always the first in the government line with the begging bowl. Despite all the big talk of free markets and capitalism, corporations like Ford and GM run screaming to the government at the first sign of trouble.

      • So are you putting your foot in the same steps you slimly left behind as you withdraw? lol
        I believe its 80% of canadians who can't read the drug information on their prescription! WOW, eh?

      • He also said:
        “The theory seems to be that as long as a man is a failure he is one of God's children, but that as soon as he succeeds he is taken over by the Devil.”
        Henry Louis Mencken quote

  32. The heading basically says 'if you disagree with anything the experts say, you are stupid'. I find many things wrong with that. First, experts rarely agree on anything, and second, they will sometimes bend the truth. Almost every veiw should be considered and calling everyone who doesn't subscribe to your political ideologies "stupid" solves nothing for anyone.

  33. The heading basically says 'if you disagree with anything the experts say, you are stupid'. I find many things wrong with that. First, experts rarely agree on anything, and second, they will sometimes bend the truth. Almost every veiw should be considered and calling everyone who doesn't subscribe to your political ideologies "stupid" solves nothing for anyone.

    • There is a difference between 'stupid' and 'ignorant'.

      You can fix 'ignorant' with education….but there's no cure for stupid.

      • There's barely any point responding to you emily because regardless of what I say, it doesn't line up with your ideology exactly, so therefore I am stupid and am not worth conversing with. You are basically saying that if you disagree with the experts, you are by definition wrong.

        • I don't have an ideology….ideology is the death of thinking.

          You can disagree with experts all you want….but to refuse to listen to them before you make a decision is just silly.

          • You can tell yourself that, but I see a strong left wing bent to every single one of your comments. I never said you should refuse to listen to them. I said that almost all opinions should be considered but you cannot live your life based on what is considered to be scientifically accurate at the time.

          • LOL you'd see a 'strong left-wing bent' in Attila the Hun….however I've never had the slightest interest in the left-wing, and would never vote NDP

            'you cannot live your life based on what is considered to be scientifically accurate at the time'….why no, you should base your life on chicken entrails, bronze age goat-herder stories, and flipping a coin.

  34. Well it was an American who said…."No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."

    But yes, we have the same ignorance here in Canada. Probably even the same percentage, but here that means far fewer people so we don't notice it as much.

  35. Here's one right now Mark and the intellectual….speak of the devil….LOL

  36. Have you ever seen the percentage of Americans who believe the earth was created 6000 years ago, that we were created exactly as we are now, and that we rode dinosaurs?

    You think that group ever got much education?

    Most other countries….outside of outright theocracies….aren't as religious as Americans.

    The two go together.

  37. Education socializes people just as much as it teaches them, so we shouldn't be surprised that two groups of people having undergone similar socialization processes have similar values and interests. While it is probable that less educated people are less informed about key issues, a fair proportion of the education gap can be ascribed to different values.

    Moreover, the kinds of public policy problems addressed by governments typically involve tradeoffs, not some sort of logical problem-solving. The experts can't tell us whether it is better to focus on the environment or the economy, for instance – all they can do is try to give us an accurate assessment of the costs and benefits of each side. In order to get the optimal result for society, we need to ensure that all interests are represented in our political discourse.

    Indeed, the wisdom of the crowd often outperforms that of supposedly wise "oracles". Markets in agricultural goods can better predict the weather than meteorologists, both because they effectively aggregate large amounts of information, and because they have significant stakes in the outcomes they are predicting (relative to meteorologists, who face no consequences for making bad predictions).

    Finally, political science EXPERTS have found support for the notion that, while most voters are poorly informed, they vote similarly to how they would if they were well-informed. How? By using heuristics, like remembering how much they like a candidate (and adjusting as events occur) without remembering each event that went into their calculation.

  38. Many go broke doing such a thing. Just not the monstrous socialist tycoons that are "too big to fail".

  39. Education socializes people just as much as it teaches them, so we shouldn't be surprised that two groups of people having undergone similar socialization processes have similar values and interests. While it is probable that less educated people are less informed about key issues, a fair proportion of the education gap can be ascribed to different values.

    Moreover, the kinds of public policy problems addressed by governments typically involve tradeoffs, not some sort of logical problem-solving. The experts can't tell us whether it is better to focus on the environment or the economy, for instance – all they can do is try to give us an accurate assessment of the costs and benefits of each side. In order to get the optimal result for society, we need to ensure that all interests are represented in our political discourse.

    Indeed, the wisdom of the crowd often outperforms that of supposedly wise "oracles". Markets in agricultural goods can better predict the weather than meteorologists, both because they effectively aggregate large amounts of information, and because they have significant stakes in the outcomes they are predicting (relative to meteorologists, who face no consequences for making bad predictions).

    Finally, political science EXPERTS have found support for the notion that, while most voters are poorly informed, they vote similarly to how they would if they were well-informed. How? By using heuristics, like remembering how much they like a candidate (and adjusting as events occur) without remembering each event that went into their calculation.

    • 'Markets in agricultural goods can better predict the weather than meteorologists'

      Really?

      You'd better prepare for some gawdawful weather then.

    • Good comment.

    • I think you nailed it. I found your comment to be refreshingly even-handed. I did not go to university because I valued recreational time more than money. That was a question of fundamental values. I know I could be higher-earning today had I endured 4 years of dedicated, focus study rather than two towards a pragmatic end, but it's a trade-off. And what do I do with that recreational time today? Oftentimes, it's keeping myself abreast of political issues and engaged in debate. I do think we should be mindful of the value differences but having said that, I admire and revere those who have a specialized field of expertise, I don't trivialize that knowledge. Healthy skepticism is hardly akin to dismissal of fact. This isn't really as black-and-white an issue as the controversy-baiting headline would seem to suggest.

      • focussed**

  40. LOL 'monstrous socialist tycoons' eh?

    You do realize that's an oxymoron?

  41. There is a difference between 'stupid' and 'ignorant'.

    You can fix 'ignorant' with education….but there's no cure for stupid.

  42. Such is the price of attempting to take the middle road i suppose. You see to find much more satisfaction in blathering extremism anyways. Personally I'm sick to tears of all this 'experts are our incorruptible betters' nonsense. Everything said that involves politics should be taken with some caution. Climate change science notwithstanding (although all questions to the scientific processes have been effectively shouted down at this point).

  43. 'Markets in agricultural goods can better predict the weather than meteorologists'

    Really?

    You'd better prepare for some gawdawful weather then.

  44. Good comment.

  45. Extremism is dangerous, and I abhor it.

    No one….except you…said 'experts are our incorruptible betters'

    But if you're about to have heart surgery, would you prefer an expert surgeon…or the janitor…to do it?

  46. Perhaps you could demonstrate by making each and every one of your comments as intelligent as possible.

  47. It should be. But it isn't. Corporations like GM are always the first in the government line with the begging bowl. Despite all the big talk of free markets and capitalism, corporations like Ford and GM run screaming to the government at the first sign of trouble.

  48. It is a conundrum. More education, less common sense. More common sense, less education. The ignorant, my man are those the universities have managed to turn into Pavlovs dogs who are completely unable to think for themselves. Ring the bell, eat the food. Ring lthe bell, eat the food. Either way you want to look at it our future looks cloudier everyday.

  49. It is a conundrum. More education, less common sense. More common sense, less education. The ignorant, my man are those the universities have managed to turn into Pavlovs dogs who are completely unable to think for themselves. Ring the bell, eat the food. Ring lthe bell, eat the food. Either way you want to look at it our future looks cloudier everyday.

    • Making categorical allegations based on education level does reveal a certain level of ignorance. Thank you for the anecdote.

    • One person's common sense is another person's baloney. In the early 21st century, there has been a movement to resurrect common sense. This movement has been led by Alaskan ex-governor and failed vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin. Commonsense conservatism asserts that certain political policies should be undertaken because they have catchy slogans. For example, it posits that we should drill in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge because "Drill, baby, drill." When a commonsense conservative is told that this is a non-sequitur, they are expected to reply, "Golly!" The fact that Sarah Palin is just dumber than a box of igneous rocks and claims to possess common sense is cause for worry.

      • You cannot run countries based on what our potential leaders say is "common sense".

  50. Making categorical allegations based on education level does reveal a certain level of ignorance. Thank you for the anecdote.

  51. They are not all Conservative supporters.

  52. I don't make stupid comments like this one by hosertohoosiers:

    "…Markets in agricultural goods can better predict the weather than meteorologists, both because they effectively aggregate large amounts of information, and because they have significant stakes in the outcomes they are predicting (relative to meteorologists, who face no consequences for making bad predictions)…"

  53. he probably despises losing his seat in parliament more

  54. I'm not trying to defend stupid policies or stupid ideas, or even stupid people for that matter. I'm only suggesting that you focus on the stupid policies and/or stupid ideas, and hold back with the "attacks" against the stupid people.

    Eg, what's the point of adding "The Conservatives are the Party of Stupid." as the last line in a post just up above a bit? It makes it so easy for your "foes" to dismiss you out of hand, rather than actually counter your arguments.

    Btw, generally I have found htoh to be quite intelligent, even though I might disagree with at least a few of his posts…I'd have to do some background research on the snippet you provided to change my mind about that.

  55. "Poll: Canadians' view of science influenced by education"

    Hmmm, that might explain the mindset of core Conservative supporters. We can thus infer that they are an uneducated mass. One need only refer to the bullheaded Harper campaign against the mandatory long-form census.

  56. "Poll: Canadians' view of science influenced by education"

    Hmmm, that might explain the mindset of core Conservative supporters. We can thus infer that they are an uneducated mass. One need only refer to the bullheaded Harper campaign against the mandatory long-form census.

  57. The Party of Stupid made the long-form census useless, costing taxpayers extra money and making the government less well-informed. Harper made the stupid decisions; compounded it further by stupidly refusing to fback down when most of Canada told him it was a stupid decision, Clement stupidly lied about it, forcing the Chief Statistician to resign, and the stupid Conservative supporters here tried to argue in favour of the stupid decision.

    The stupid Conservative supporters here also tend to be AGW deniers.

    Anti-science, anti-intelligence, anti-education. Sorry, I can not rein in my contempt for these stupid fools for the sake of not offending your delicate sensibilities.

  58. Yeah, it is duly noted that you can't rein in your contempt. If your goal here is to simply register your contempt, then by all means, do not change your style at all. And my "delicate sensibilities" aren't really the issue here – believe me, I've become very adept at blowing past the majority of the belligerent posts here.

    But if you might be interested in testing the validity of your own assumptions and perhaps providing some possibly relevant information to your opponents in a manner that might (not will, only might) help them to reconsider some of their assumptions then using "stupid" eight or nine times in one post is unlikely to be helpful.

  59. Ekos research poll? Frank Greaves, scientific or pretend to be "scientific"? Even the writing above sounds more like brain washing. Signs that election is really on.

  60. Ekos research poll? Frank Greaves, scientific or pretend to be "scientific"? Even the writing above sounds more like brain washing. Signs that election is really on.

  61. One person's common sense is another person's baloney. In the early 21st century, there has been a movement to resurrect common sense. This movement has been led by Alaskan ex-governor and failed vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin. Commonsense conservatism asserts that certain political policies should be undertaken because they have catchy slogans. For example, it posits that we should drill in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge because "Drill, baby, drill." When a commonsense conservative is told that this is a non-sequitur, they are expected to reply, "Golly!" The fact that Sarah Palin is just dumber than a box of igneous rocks and claims to possess common sense is cause for worry.

  62. What I sort of resent about this headline is the implication it makes about those lacking a university education. While I may not have gone "all the way" in terms of formal education, that doesn't mean I don't value the insight and education of others. Scientific grants and advancement are important to me as well. There's no need to be smug towards the college or skilled trade crowd, as I detect in some of these comments.

  63. What I sort of resent about this headline is the implication it makes about those lacking a university education. While I may not have gone "all the way" in terms of formal education, that doesn't mean I don't value the insight and education of others. Scientific grants and advancement are important to me as well. There's no need to be smug towards the college or skilled trade crowd, as I detect in some of these comments.

    • HUH?

      • English a little difficult for you, huh? Well, I can't fault you for that. There ARE two official languages in this country. My comment could not have been more explicit or straightforward if I reduced it to exclusively one-syllable words.

  64. So are you putting your foot in the same steps you slimly left behind as you withdraw? lol
    I believe its 80% of canadians who can't read the drug information on their prescription! WOW, eh?

  65. LOL, nola! I was smarter then you after a 26 ouncer in 8 hours. 100 proof.

  66. LOL, nola! I was smarter then you after a 26 ouncer in 8 hours. 100 proof.

    • Yeah, we can all see your continuing bottled confusion.

      • WE?? You never worked well, without a crowd?

        "In total, 42 per cent of Canadians are semi-illiterate. The proportion is even worse for those in middle age. And even when new immigrants are excluded, the numbers remains pretty much the same.

        But what's worse is that for the past 15 years there's been scarcely any improvement. "

  67. HUH?

  68. Yeah, we can all see your continuing bottled confusion.

  69. English a little difficult for you, huh? Well, I can't fault you for that. There ARE two official languages in this country. My comment could not have been more explicit or straightforward if I reduced it to exclusively one-syllable words.

  70. WE?? You never worked well, without a crowd?

    "In total, 42 per cent of Canadians are semi-illiterate. The proportion is even worse for those in middle age. And even when new immigrants are excluded, the numbers remains pretty much the same.

    But what's worse is that for the past 15 years there's been scarcely any improvement. "

  71. 2 offical languages? Where? Here are some moreof those "offical lol"

    City Laws
    Etobicoke Bylaw states that no more than 3.5 inches of water is allowed in a bathtub.

    Cobourg
    If you have a water trough in your front yard it must be filled by 5:00 a.m.
    Gananoque
    · Homeowners are responsible for clearing snow off of municipal sidewalks.
    Guelph
    · The city is classified as a no-pee zone.

  72. 2 offical languages? Where? Here are some moreof those "offical lol"

    City Laws
    Etobicoke Bylaw states that no more than 3.5 inches of water is allowed in a bathtub.

    Cobourg
    If you have a water trough in your front yard it must be filled by 5:00 a.m.
    Gananoque
    · Homeowners are responsible for clearing snow off of municipal sidewalks.
    Guelph
    · The city is classified as a no-pee zone.

  73. Official languages and:__Kanata __· The colour of house and garage doors is regulated by city bylaws (a purple door get you a fine). It is also illegal to have a clothes line in your backyard. __· You can't work on your car in the street. __, on a leaseOshawa __· It's illegal to climb trees. __· Homeowners are responsible for clearing snow off of municipal sidewalks. If sidewalks is not cleaned within 24 hours after a snowfall, city workers will clean it and the cost will be placed on the homeowners tax bill. __Ottawa __· It is illegal to eat ice-cream on Bank Street on a Sunday. __Toronto __· You can't drag a dead horse down Yonge St. on a Sunday. __Uxbridge __· Residents are not allowed to have an Internet connection faster than 56k. __Wawa __· You may not paint a ladder as it will be slippery when wet. __· It is illegal to show public affection on Sunday. ____And you can't keep an official language person on a leash! Mer wee lol

  74. Official languages and:__Kanata __· The colour of house and garage doors is regulated by city bylaws (a purple door get you a fine). It is also illegal to have a clothes line in your backyard. __· You can't work on your car in the street. __, on a leaseOshawa __· It's illegal to climb trees. __· Homeowners are responsible for clearing snow off of municipal sidewalks. If sidewalks is not cleaned within 24 hours after a snowfall, city workers will clean it and the cost will be placed on the homeowners tax bill. __Ottawa __· It is illegal to eat ice-cream on Bank Street on a Sunday. __Toronto __· You can't drag a dead horse down Yonge St. on a Sunday. __Uxbridge __· Residents are not allowed to have an Internet connection faster than 56k. __Wawa __· You may not paint a ladder as it will be slippery when wet. __· It is illegal to show public affection on Sunday. ____And you can't keep an official language person on a leash! Mer wee lol

  75. He also said:
    “The theory seems to be that as long as a man is a failure he is one of God's children, but that as soon as he succeeds he is taken over by the Devil.”
    Henry Louis Mencken quote

  76. I think you nailed it. I found your comment to be refreshingly even-handed. I did not go to university because I valued recreational time more than money. That was a question of fundamental values. I know I could be higher-earning today had I endured 4 years of dedicated, focus study rather than two towards a pragmatic end, but it's a trade-off. And what do I do with that recreational time today? Oftentimes, it's keeping myself abreast of political issues and engaged in debate. I do think we should be mindful of the value differences but having said that, I admire and revere those who have a specialized field of expertise, I don't trivialize that knowledge. Healthy skepticism is hardly akin to dismissal of fact. This isn't really as black-and-white an issue as the controversy-baiting headline would seem to suggest.

  77. focussed**

  78. Judging by your past posts you revel in extremism. I wasn't quoting anyone as a matter of fact. I was describing the attitude many take on whenever someone questions the findings of many of these 'experts'. It all depends on the issue really. Are they telling you the chemical content of food or are they telling you what the latest scientific method of raising your children is? You cannot rely one perspective alone to determine how to think or live your life.

  79. There's barely any point responding to you emily because regardless of what I say, it doesn't line up with your ideology exactly, so therefore I am stupid and am not worth conversing with. You are basically saying that if you disagree with the experts, you are by definition wrong.

  80. LOL I don't know what you're classifying as 'extremism', but I'm a centrist. Always have been.

    No, by all means get a second opinion on your heart operation….but from another surgeon, not a janitor.

  81. I don't have an ideology….ideology is the death of thinking.

    You can disagree with experts all you want….but to refuse to listen to them before you make a decision is just silly.

  82. You? Centrist? I hope that's some kind of joke. Reread your posts and perhaps do some self searching. But ultimately you cannot govern your life or opinions solely by science and statistics. Both have the potential to be flawed and both change over time. At one time the "experts" said that radiation was healthy for you and that babies should sleep face down.

  83. You can tell yourself that, but I see a strong left wing bent to every single one of your comments. I never said you should refuse to listen to them. I said that almost all opinions should be considered but you cannot live your life based on what is considered to be scientifically accurate at the time.

  84. You cannot run countries based on what our potential leaders say is "common sense".

  85. I'm 64. I know exactly what I think, so I don't need to do any 'soul-searching'

    If you don't go by known data…what do you go by? Faith? Thank you, no.

    Babies can sleep any way they want to….and you have radiation in your body normally

  86. LOL you'd see a 'strong left-wing bent' in Attila the Hun….however I've never had the slightest interest in the left-wing, and would never vote NDP

    'you cannot live your life based on what is considered to be scientifically accurate at the time'….why no, you should base your life on chicken entrails, bronze age goat-herder stories, and flipping a coin.

  87. You are by no means a centrist. My point is is that both scientific findings and statistics can, and frequently are flawed. Exposing yourself to nuclear radiation can give you cancer, Babies can suffocate if they sleep on their front. Two things that have changed in scientific opinion since the 50's among many other things. In another 70 years many of our cutting edge scientific findings will look like a hilarious joke. At some point you have to detach yourself from the specifics and look at the big picture.

  88. Yes dear, I am. Have been for a lifetime.

    You have radiation in your body at all times. It's normal.

    Babies sleeping on their side or backs can also die.

    Apparently you don't know what science is….it's the search for knowledge, not a set theology from a sky fairy. The whole point of science is that you learn as you go.

Sign in to comment.