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Religious groups fight changes to Ontario sex ed curriculum

UPDATE: McGuinty backs down, turfs changes


 

Ontario’s new sex education curriculum is drawing fire from Christian and Muslim groups, who are planning to pull their kids out of school on May 10 to protest the changes. The school boycott is an attempt to pressure Premier Dalton McGuinty into heeding their concerns about the new curriculum, which would have Grade 3 kids learning about homosexuality, and Grade 6 students learning about anal sex and vaginal lubrication. According to Murielle Boudreau, of the Greater Toronto Catholic Parent Network, such information will “traumatize these children—they’re going to be doing everything out in the schoolyard.” At the same time, the Tories are positioning themselves to use the new curriculum, which is the first revision of sex education since 1998, as an opportunity to trumpet family values.

UPDATE: Amidst mounting pressure from religious groups, Ontario has backed down on its plan to introduce new sex education curriculum in the fall. According to Premier Dalton McGuinty, “It’s become pretty obvious to us we should give this a serious rethink.”

The Globe and Mail

Toronto Star


 
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Religious groups fight changes to Ontario sex ed curriculum

  1. Good for them, it's about time people of the Book started working together to resist the secular agenda.

    • Are you honestly happy about the outcome of this exemplar of ridiculous religious conservatism and ignorance? If so, you should be ashamed of yourself, as should those who protested a positive move forward in our health education curriculum and preparation of our young children. Not only has this done an injustice to our children by denying them the right to appropriate and necessary information, but it has done an injustice to education as a whole by manipulating and undermining our educators, and the democratic process. Yes, demonstrate for progress and against injustice, but not at the expense of knowledge, education, and insight. Shame on you, and shame on those who protested against such an important step forward.

    • Religious groups objecting to the secular world teaching kids about sex. Apparently they haven't been reading the papers for several months. News flash: the religious leaders have been caught sexually abusing kids and they've been doing it for a long time. The secular agenda is required to clear out the trash.

      • Not to mention sex-ed is the real answer to mature and responsible sexual behaviour.

    • It is a good sign to see liberal ideology finally following it's actual place in existence as a failure. It looks to me that people are awakening to the ignorance that atheist liberals provide, or at least those who hold strong to their beliefs are finally speaking up.

      Either way, there is certainly a strong conservative movement afoot here in North America and in the world. This trend will not be stopped.

      If you are liberal, I would recommend you learn humility.

      • Because you know, sex education is EVIL and full of impure thoughts! Let's have our students discover child birth naturally and at age 12. Go non-liberal views!

    • Maybe you should google "sexual abuse of minors" and then count how often your "People-Of-The-Book" are mentioned.
      When you're done come back and comment some more, ok?

  2. Excellent! I am so happy they are teaching children the intricacies of sex BEFORE puberty. Puberty is so traumatic and confusing for children … it would be wonderful if it became something that was discussed and appreciated, rather than something hidden away in the closet! Parents may have the best interests of their children in their hearts … but lets face it parents, who is more experience raising children? – The education system which is now hundreds of years old in Canada … or a parent with a six year old who is winging it in some cases, and following the examples of others most days?

    • I find your response…interesting. The system of education in Canada has not remained the same over is "hundreds of years". If the system had remained unchanged and the "tested, tried and true values" of the system were the same today as they were a hundred years ago you would have a point. However, you are looking at an education system which has changed and swayed with the moral waves of ideologies and teachings that come and go. Is this every changing system of acceptance and toleration more capable of raising my children that I? Are the values which I hold that have been written and lived out for centuries not valid since an modern education system is ready to throw those values away and force my children to being exposed prematurely to the immorality of this world? Your claim in light of this thinking is nothing short of absurd when thought through. I commend your faith in the system to "correctly" steer your children. May they fare well in the end of their days of education.

  3. I find that my child would have been too young to hear the information that the new curriculum will teach. Perhaps other children at 8 and 12 are more mature and need the info.

    What I would like is for it be mandatory for teachers to notify parents when they will be teaching sex ed. and what topics they plan to cover, ideally with a link to the online curriculum. If I had a few days notice, I could talk to my child about it beforehand, and/or discuss it with them after, or opt out of them attending the class.

    • You do have the option of your child not taking sex-ed. It's manditory for the school to send a notice home about it, at which point you can say you don't want them attending the classes. It's been that way for years.

  4. This is getting outrageous everyday.

  5. 3rd grade is just too early.

    • Except it's known that some kids are having sex by the age of 10 these days. Would you rather wait until they start before we start telling them what could be risky/dangerous?

      • Known by who?Where?,this topic sure ahs attracted pedophiles in their numbers.How many more years before you guys protest for the introduction of pederasty?I wouldn`t it put it past you.Just wait and see Canada,you think you have seen the absurd just read the comments from these perverts who just flooded this thread.

        • Did you just call Thwim a pedophile?

          • yes I did,only kiddie fiddlers and oerverts support this nonsense.What majkes you think people who support something this disgusting,would not support pederasty.I know it and you knwo it,that it`s a matter of time before you start calling us bigots for frowning on kiddie fiddlers.I know your absurdity knows no bounds.That much I I know

          • Good lord, buddy… tone it down a notch. My daughter is in 3rd grade. While downtown recently she saw two girls making out in a park… of course she asked me about it. Should I have covered her eyes and ran away? Do you want to call me a pedophile too because I told my kid what homosexuality is? Wake up! Gays are not diseased outcasts of society. I have a few gay couples among my friends… and guess what… I enjoy diddling my girlfriend up the back door every once in a while and she asks for it too.
            I find pedophiles as disgusting as every other normal human being. They should be locked away or better shot. But sending our kids to school with duct tape over their eyes and ears isn't going to make anything better. Keeping sex ed in the middle ages like the katholic church has been doing only leads to…. well … let's not get into the topic of how katholic priests teach their choir boys about sex.

            The sexual revolution happened over 40 years ago… where have you been?

          • Leave the trolls alone Andrew. If you don't feed them, they'll go back under their bridges.

    • Too early for the kids or too early for the parents. I suspect the latter.

  6. I think it's important to educate parents. Sex education should start in the home and teaching parents how to implement this in a family setting would eliminate the need to have our children exposed to such explicit and sensitive topics at such an early age. Instead of having a sex education class for the kids directly, parents should be working closely with their school and finding ways to have seminars on how to talk to your kids about the topic. Let's face it..looking back we started sex ed in Grade 6 and from what I remember it was a joke!!! Kids learn more about sex from the schoolyard from their peers talking about it in the school yard. Sex education in my view is saying that it's o.k. At least a parent can teach their child right from wrong!!!

  7. I think that it's a parent's right to decide when they teach their own kids about sex. The government and the education system should stay out of the personal lives of the families. The education system has no right teaching kids things the parents don't want them taught. Is this now a dictatorship where we don't have a say in what our own kids are taught? I sure don't want my kids taught about homosexuality when they are 8 years old, and being taught about anal sex, this is insane. Anal sex is not natural, it is disgusting, and I should have the right on whether or not my child is taught such filth. This is a matter of family values, and this kind of sex education does not meet with my approval. If my child was in a school that was going to teach that filth, I would also pull my child out. As a parent, It's my right to decide if and when my child is taught about unnatural sex, not the education system.

    • Bang on mister! For them to foist this disgusting curriculum on our youngsters is just so obscene. And with absolutely ZERO consultation or input from the parents? Isn't that how a dictatorship operates?

    • Why the heck you guys always bring religion in edication and try to force implement your old fashioned shit in Canada too?

    • I'm not a parent, but I am an aunt. The school system should concentrate on teaching kids 2+2 instead of having to use a calculator for the most basic math, history, cultures, how to speak a language properly, because what I hear coming out of the mouths of our youth is anything but proper english/french etc…and the government should stay out of how every parent wishes to raise their family…As a future parent, I'm seriously looking into home schooling…I'm not being ignorant, however it seems that in an effort to "educate" kids from the moment they come out of the womb, children have lost their youth…and that is a crime….there is plenty of time to educate them on the more adult realities of life….why does everything have to be rushed??

  8. Maybe these Conservative parents can get the schools to explain to their kids what Rahim Jaffer's "busty hookers" mean?

    • aside from the irrelevance of your argument – are you implying that all parents who are against this type of sex education are conservative voters?

  9. I'm getting sick of religion dictating government policy.
    Children WILL learn all about this
    The only thing parents have a say over is what environment its in, and I'd rather my child learned in the safety of a public school.

    • Safety of a public school???? HAHAHAHA

  10. Of course the religious groups are free to protest… and they can fund their own schools as well. If they don't like the government mandate, they shouldn't be using public funds for the schools.

    • The argument is: they pay taxes too

      • Something liberals seem to forget is that it is written nowhere that Canadian voters must be secular. While our laws try to be secular and fair to all, it still only takes a large group of voters who have their moral compasses intact to influence laws towards a society that recognizes God.

        Liberal comments such as 0z's above, simply ooze with an ignorance that they choose to willfully accept. There is always time, however, to cast of the shackles of such ignorance.

        • it still only takes a large group of voters who have their moral compasses intact to influence laws towards a society that recognizes God.

          Like the Catholic priests.

        • Indeed, every once in a while you come across a comment that just oozes….

  11. Sex education is not – "saying it's o.k." It's providing information. If you listen to what kids in Grade 6 are saying – your eyes may be opened. Puberty starts very early for a lot of girls and it's vital that they and the boys who could become active at very young ages know the facts and the choices which of course would include celebacy.

  12. Children get sexually abused because they do not have the necessary information to know when something is wrong. I see the Catholic Church is against this. They really need to thread lightly. Are they worried they won't get any young boys to submit to abuse? All religious groups are complicit in sexual abuse by denying children information necessary to protect themselves. Parents always fail miserably in this regard as well. My parents have never mentioned anything to me about sex. I was abused and felt disgusting for years until I realized it wasn't my fault. My parents could have prevented this by being forthcoming about what your body is for and what constitutes an abuse.

    "People of the book" (the reluded) really need to take their heads out of it for a second, take a breath and actually think for themsleves and their kids for once. If not its your fault if your little johnny gets raped.

    • Jay, that last comment is really out of the bounds of decency for any parent. Surely you did not mean for that comment to be as insensitive, cruel, and distasteful as you wrote it. I think you could benefit from some sensitivity counselling.

  13. I fear for the future of our country if kids are being raised by parents as ignorant as some of these comments. I knew about almost everything before sex ed started (I say about because I knew about it, but of course not all the right things) and this was well before the internet. They can learn it from teachers or they can learn it from porn on the web – take your choice.

    • That's a false choice. They can also learn it at a more appropriate pace if they are taught to avoid porn on the web and not deluged with information about every possible fetish by the age of 10.

      It is possible to preserve the innocence of kids – it just takes a lot of work in this society. School initiatives like this don't help.

      • Wow. You're naive. Trust me. Your kids know how to find things through technology that you wouldn't even know were there, never mind how to hide.

        • It doesn't matter how good kids are with technology if they understand the difference between right and wrong.

          The goal here isn't to hide things from kids, it's to show them everything in the correct order, when they're ready, and with the ethics included together with the biology. If your kids understand trust you and you explain to them that certain things on the web will harm them, they won't seek those things out.

          It really is that simple.

          • Hilarious. I think you're forgetting curiosity. Ordering a kid not to learn anything about a topic is drawing a huge exclamation mark to it.

          • I never said "ordering". I said "explain". Have you never met a kid who trusted his parents enough to believe them when they tell him something is going to hurt him?

      • Here's a question… how do you teach your kid to avoid porn without discussing what it is? Isn't that another way of talking to your kids about sex?

  14. You honestly think your 8 year old has never heard of that? Go ask her/him.

    • Tell us John D. Why do you spend your time asking 8 year olds about sex?Who does that?Do tell.

      • Parents should have age appropriate conversations about reproduction regularly. Unless your child knows the facts, how can you be sure they won't do something that puts them in danger?

        • Way to avoid the question,what would you be doing talking to an 8 year old about sex?,they don`t need to hear that.Please,you don`t care about danger,you don`t care about 'facts',just an excuse to raise the next generation of perverts.

          • what would you be doing talking to an 8 year old about sex?

            I would be educating my child on reproductive health. I would be letting them know about biology, puberty, and the basics about reproduction. By eight, my child would already know that homosexuals exist because I don't believe in raising children in ignorance just because it may be icky.

            Please,you don`t care about danger,you don`t care about 'facts',just an excuse to raise the next generation of perverts.

            Haven't you heard? Unproven, slanderous claims can get you sued these days. Even ones made on the Internet.

    • You sopend your time talking tio children about sex?Somebody needs to call the police,why would you ask an 8 year old about sex.You should be arrested.

      • I just got thumbed down by another pervert,hahahaha

      • I think most parents SHOULD spend some time talking to their kids about sex. It's a natural thing and especially with the amount of exposure that's already on tv, ads, etc., it would be good for kids to discuss these things properly with a parent or an educator. Sexuality is not filthy. The more they understand, the more they will make decisions wisely. We live in a very diverse city. They already see these things happening in their everyday life so why not talk openly about it?

      • I am a teacher, and believe me that kids are well exposed to this type of information by age 12. Also, teen pregnancy rates are sky rocketing, mostly due to the religious influences on an abstinence only curriculum. Religion needs to stay away from public schools. If parents have a problem with that, then they can send their child to a private institution or home school.

  15. Let the Catholics and Muslims pull their kids. Better for the rest of the non doctranized.
    (If little catholic Bobby new more about sex, he may understand better when an adult approaches him inappropriately, but hey, then where would those adults go!! Rome?)

  16. I have to wonder where the government gets its advice from. As a parent of four children (three grown adults) I simply can't see the sense in teaching sex-ed to such young children. My prediction is that this will backfire and by sexualizing children at such a young age we will end up with more teen pregnancies and greater sexual expolitation of children. I hope I'm wrong, but I can't forsee any other outcome.

    This is just a bad idea.

    • Knowledge is power. When a child is given age appropriate reproductive education throughout their lives, they are better equipped to deal with situations on their own. And, they feel more comfortable talking to their parents about questions that they have.

      Who would you rather your child went to for questions about reproductive health? If your daughter is forced to ask her boyfriend these questions (because she doesn't feel comfortable asking you), how comfortable are you the answers would be in her best interest?

  17. Perhaps kids knowing more about sex would make it harder for them to be abused by religious leaders?

  18. fuck the state

  19. You don't even have to be religious to see how bad this is. We hide cigarettes, porn, guns, violence, violent toys from little Johnny so it does not influence his innocent little mind, but it's Ok to teach him in Grade 3 about same sex relationships, and later about anal sex, this is frighting we are swinging in a dangerous direction.

    • I agree, there is nothing more terrifying in the world than homosexuality and anal sex. The Hatian earthquake? bah! Economic crisis? Pffft. Soldiers getting killed in Afghanistan? No problem! But oh god forbid that we tell kids about anal sex! How traumatizing! They might even think about … doing it! Oh God!! Then all hell would break loose!!! Imagine what what happen!! I have no idea what, but I'm sure it's TERRIBLE!

  20. If someone talks to my child about anal sex at 10 years of age I’m calling the police. These topics serve no purpose except to prepare kids to try things other than doing ‘it’ as they go through puberty. The state has no business in the sexual life of my child. Period.

    • Your in a minority and living in the past I'm afraid Bob. Perhaps move to the Ozarks and pick-up banjo playing?

    • I would have to agree with you Bob. If anyone came near one of my children with that I would have to at the very least call the police. It's a pretty sad day when you think that you need to explain to a child all about anal or oral sex.

    • Many teenagers have anal sex because they don't consider that the same thing as losing your virginity. They don't know what condoms are, and thus they often have unprotected anal sex. Considering that they also do not know the HIV status of their sexual partners, the person on the receiving end is at about a 19% risk of contracting HIV from every unprotected anal receptive incident. That's 1 in 5.

      Not educating your children about anal sex is like handing them a revolver with a single bullet and telling them to play Russian Roulette. worse, actually, because at least with Russian Roulette your odds of dying are only 1 in 6, and here you are placing your children at a 1 in 5 chance of contracting HIV.

      1 in 5. Think about that

      • This is not the point, the education system has sex-ed it starts in grade 7 an sooner is really to soon.

    • Bob, I'm sorry to say that a sexual education curriculum has been around in this country for years, decades even. This is just a revision to the program. So I guess in the most literal interpretation of your comment, yes the state does have business in the sexual life of your child, it has in the past, and it will in the future. Sorry, buddy…and I would LOVE it if you called the Police about this one, then hopefully report back. I have a feeling the people on here will have as fun with the details of that call as the Police.

    • I'm sorry, you need to have an open mind sir
      Children are interested in sex at an early age, and I'd like to see them formally introduced and carried through a structured curriculum instead of learning about all these important topics over the internet, and from their friends.
      Unless, however, you're suggesting that you'd much rather teach YOUR child about sex, body image and puberty changes. It is HIGHLY important for children to know what will be happening to them as the progress through life. I hope you realize that because you are opposed to this change, you and others alike will be depriving other children, who's parents are for it, of their education.

  21. Fred
    You start teaching the basics to kids as soon as they can talk – for instance by giving them the proper names for their "privates".

  22. Absolutely! It's about time the secular authorities had equal opportunity. Oops the numbers indicate they already are!

  23. "Anal sex is not natural, it is disgusting, and I should have the right on whether or not my child is taught such filth."

    Yeah let them learn about it on the internet like everybody else. Seriously, kids don't want to have open and frank discussions about sex with their parents – so they mostly don't ask questions and they don't get answers. They learn a lot of lies and nonsense.

    It is in any case not a matter of family values – teen pregnancies, STDs and sexual abuse to name a few issues – ignorance in our children and young adults affects our whole society.

    • You've obviously never tried it. Just sayin'.

      • The problem is that people wait until their kids are teenagers and then try to have these conversations. How can you have an open and frank conversation with your kids about something when you've spent their entire lives convincing them that it's a taboo subject.

  24. You need to give your head a shake. Your last two lines sound like a predator looking for a scape goat for his or her behavior. The rapist is the one that needs the education that what he or she is doing is wrong.
    Oh did I say that the word wrong!!!!! Evil is better or Sin. I,m not against sex ed just the proposed content, where, when and who is teaching it. As a parent of four children I care more aboiut my children's well being than any gov. or educator. We should have the right to screen what is taught in the schools. It is a public education system that should be publicly screened. If not them I guess we are in a dictatorship run education system. As for the people of the book. First time I've heard that!! At least someone is willing to stand up against a corupt world that says anything goes.

    • I see you resorted to the typical right wing non-response when faced with facts and truth. Rather than insinuate I am some sort of predator why not for once address the content and refute it with anything other than attacks. What an angry bunch of malcontents conservatives/reformers are. Seems to me most of societies problems are related to what this sex ed is for. Filling in the blanks left empty by parents so repressed they cannot deal with facts about their own bodies and life in general. We know your type is against intellectuals and higher learning. Maybe thats the root of all this abuse we see and the fact you cannot provide a rebutal that doesn't include accusing people of something you had no basis for. Only uneducated/unintelligent people resort to name calling in discussions when they are over their heads. I'd hate to see what kind of back water third world regime we'd have here if you and people like you were actually allowed to make decisions for everyone. Yikes.

      • well – I am a parent working on my 3rd degree (is that enough education for you?) Let's try this again – MOST PARENTS ARE NOT AGAINST SEX ED – THIS IS ABOUT WHAT MATERIAL IS BEING TAUGHT IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM IN PARTICUALR. You may or may not be aware that the distance between complete "repression" and anal intercourse is generally understood to be pretty wide. :)

  25. Fortunately this will all work out in the wash, most parents, even the well-intentioned moronic ones won't screw up their kids too badly. I also get the feeling that these are knee-jerk idiot comments resulting from a blurb designed to elicit exactly that kind of a reaction. Of course MacLean's is going to throw out words like 'anal sex' and 'vaginal lubrication' to get right wackos going, and then references to Muslim and Catholic interference to whoop up the crunchy side.
    And whoever wants to boycott the school I tell you this: boycotts don't work. Your action will be barely noted and quickly forgotten, have your say, have your righteous indignation, but in the end that is all you will have.

    • "… most parents, even the well-intentioned moronic ones won't screw up their kids too badly."

      Looking at most of these comments, I'm thinking the last generation has already proven you wrong.

  26. For the parents, teachers, and community to keep a child ignorant of the realities of day-to-day life is child abuse in its most brutal form. Sooner or later, that child will be confronted with reality. If they are ignorant of it, they will be incapable of functioning when confronted by that reality.

    You cannot keep children young forever. They will grow up eventually, and if you truly love them, then for God's sakes, teach them how to survive without you looking over their shoulder every ten minutes to make sure they're alright. You are going to grow old and die eventually, so why keep your child an emotionally crippled dependent that will be helpless once you're gone?

    Sex is a reality. It is a part of life. It is unavoidable. The urge to have sex is in inherent part of the lives of every human being that has ever or will ever walk this Earth, provided they survive to puberty. To leave your child unprepared for something so inevitable is cruel to that child. It is immoral and wrong to not teach your children about sex, just as it is immoral and wrong to make them incapable of feeding themselves or housing themselves.

    An no matter what you personally think of homosexuals, the fact is that gay people exist, they are real, they are everywhere you go. Almost every animal species has homosexual members. Gay people have appeared in the historical record as far back as history has been recorded, they are present on every continent, in every country. Your own child may be gay. Since this is the case, why would you not teach your children about something so common, so prevalent, and so much a part of life?

    If you really love your children, then teach them as much as you can about everything. Ignorance is never a benefit to anyone. Knowledge is always the most important gift you can give.

  27. I am always bemused by the argument "they're going to find out about it anyway, so let's teach it in the schools". I guess that makes it fair game to include anything and everything in the school curriculum that "they're going to find out about it anyway". So why stop at anal sex and vaginal lubrication – let's get the kiddies up to speed on S & M, threesomes, tea-bagging, etc. and anything else "they're going to find out about anyway"! And why limit it to sex? Since they're going to find out about illicit drug use and underaged drinking and etc. etc., let's get 'em some official school-sanctioned info. on that as well! As a side benefit, it will leave even less time for Canadian history, math, etc.!

    • Since they're going to find out about illicit drug use and underaged drinking and etc. etc., let's get 'em some official school-sanctioned info. on that as well!

      You don't teach your kids about drugs and alcohol? What kind of parent are you?

  28. We are trusting a government that can't run a country, and teachers that let children through the system that still are unable to read and write decide what is best for our children. I think they need to take a few steps back to correct some of the major areas that they are lacking before they take on anything new.

  29. Tea-bagging? Like protesting universal health care?

  30. Or you could just vote for a more competent government

  31. Our government does run our country. That's why we pay those people so much, and have those pesky elections every so often. Primary and secondary education is one of the things we entrust our government with. Maybe you had a bad experience, but it's worked out great for me. Where are you getting your literacy statistics? Mississippi? Canada has hovered around the high nineties for decades now. Wikipedia says we're at 99%, so even if it's something like 5% off were' doing really well.

  32. There is curriculum o on illicit drug use and underage drinking. It's called D.A.R.E.

    • It`s an anti-drug and anti- teenage drinking campaign,not a curriculum.Big difference

  33. And they wonder why homsechooling is on the rise.

  34. Would you rather have to explain to them that they now have HIV, and they won't live to see their 30th birthday?

  35. If we're hiding cigarettes (see popeye cigarettes), porn (see Miley Cyrus), guns (ever play cops and robbers? Cowboys and Indians) and violent toys (see G.I. Joe) then we're not doing a very good job of it. Sex, it seems to me, is healthiest of the bunch. Honestly though, check your grammar, it's only polite.

  36. I hate to tell parents, but in this age of the internet, children already have a pretty good idea about what's going on. I'd prefer to see them educated formally than have them pick it up from questionable sources online.

    http://viableopposition.blogspot.com/

  37. I feel its important to teach our children about sex, body image and different sexual orientations. We live in a society which is full of oversexed imagery. Sex is used to sell cars, body wash and food (if you will recall the Burger King commercial which had Paris Hilton scantily clad washing a car). As much as parents want to wish that their children are not having sex, and can shield them from the topic they can't. Children learn about sex from the television, in the books that they read and from their friends. You cannot hide a child curiosity. Girls in particular are developing at a younger age, which is why this new sex-ed is important. Making sex, a developing body and sexual desires out to be something of a satanic nature out side of marriage is only going to hurt a child body image. Girls specifically need to be made aware that what is occurring is OK, their feelings are normal. You cannot control the age of puberty, hell you can't even control the age of when your child is going to loose their virginity. What you can do , is help them become aware of what is going on and equip them with the proper tools to make the right decision. Sex will then become more of an experimental act, there will be more knowledge behind it. Kids are going to find all these things out on their own, why not educate them all in a controlled environment where they can ask questions. Its entirely embarrassing hearing about these things from your parents; as a child you feel you cannot ask questions. These law makers are not telling children to have sex, they are not telling them what their sexual orientation should be. They are simply adapting to an ever changing society. One which focuses to much on sexuality. We need to evolve as society does. Its as simple as that.

  38. They tried to sneak this through the back door by posting it on the Ministry web site and not draying any attention to it. Sex education has always been a part of the Ontario curricula, but the changes in the support document have raised questions-is the intent of the document to shore up greater support for the gay lifestyle, gay marriage and gay adoption?

    This isn't to suggest that such goals are wrong. But it is to suggest that the STATE can control the thinking of the individual when individuals do not have any choice regarding how children are socialized.

    McGuinty, like the Orwellian premier he truly is, is adamantly opposed to school choice, competition accountability, transparency and alignment. While Ontario graduates struggle with mathemeatic foreign students are taking our place in areas such as engineering, pharmacy and medicine

    The Ontario sex educated student is poised to gain employment at Tim Horton's where they can hang their B.A. on the washroom wall.

    • "They tried to sneak this through the back door…"

      An ill-chosen phrase, perhaps, with which to commence your comment.

      • you beat me to it!!! lol

    • Love it.

    • Sex education has always been a part of the Ontario curricula, but the changes in the support document have raised questions-is the intent of the document to shore up greater support for the gay lifestyle, gay marriage and gay adoption?

      Or, maybe they're designed to help children avoid the depression and suicidal tendencies that come along with not understanding why they feel the way they do. My brother was extremely depressed throughout his teenage years because he felt one way, and all his friends felt another way, and he had no idea why he was different. Had it been explained to him that some people deviate from the norm, and that there are others like him, maybe he wouldn't have been miserable for his entire teenage life.

  39. Homeschooled kids are weird. Tim Tebow was homeschooled, he's 22 and still a virgin.

    • What`s wrong with being a 22 year old virgin.Maybe he was saving himself for marriage is there anything wrong with that?That`s not weird.Anybody with morals nowadays is looked ta like he needs help.Good on himfor not having teenage sex.If more people were like Tim Tebow,we wouldn`t have so many STDs,AIDS,teenage pregancies and teenage mothers.So good on Tim Tebow and leave him alone to save himself,pervert

  40. If someone talks to my child about anal sex at 10 years of age I'm calling the police.

    —————–

    This has actually happened in the States where lawyers warned teachers that they would be charged with sexually abusing a child in the event they
    used their pulpit to educate students about using anal lube, anal intercourse, where to get birth control, etc.

  41. I wonder how the human race managed to reproduce in a very healthy way for all those centuries before Dalton existed?
    And all without an Ontario education, too!

    • The answer is.. not very well.

      Look at infant mortality rates, STD transmission rates, teen-age pregnancy rates. All of them go down as the amount of sex education our kids receive goes up.

      • Yes, look at those rates in Canada and compare them to Kenya, for example. We have a very low teenage birth rate, an increase in older mothers in the population, and an national HIV rate of ~1.5%. I remember sex ed and I thought it was very informative and right on time. No real nervous tittering or outrageous comments. One thing that should change, however, is the fact that religious schools get to opt out of teaching contraception of any kind. I don't know what the harm of explaining what condoms are could possibly be if it's bracketed by whatever ideology that particular religion teaches (abstinence is best, but…..etc.)

    • Over 11,000 pregnancies in girls under the age of 20 in 2002 alone would answer your question with 'not very well', I'm afraid.

      • Out of how many teenage girls? Eleven-thousand may sound staggering or infintesimal depending on what the total population of the demographis in question actually is. You also need to break it down religious and ethnic lines because some cultures encourage early marriages, thus teenage pregnancies, and others teach prayer as the number method of birth control. The average Canadian teenager is not pregnant before the age of 18 — in fact, the age at which women are choosing to have children is greater than it ever has been. On top of that, you ever heard about Canada's shrinking birth rate, thus the reason for why the immigration floodgates are wide open? Kind of goes back to that cultural breeding-like-rabbits thing I was talking about….

        Also, I don't know why people are acting as if Ontarians have never before experienced sex ed. We have it, it's a wonderful program, and it works. Not in one of these articles have I seen any reasons cited as for why the age for sex ed has been lowered so shockingly.

  42. So many of the commenters here don't seem to know that the vast majority of children who are abused sexually, are abused by a member of their own family or very close friend of the family. Children are safer if they at least know what is normal sexual behaviour and what is perverse. Parents alone and especially organized religious leader have proven that they need the help of public educators to accomplish the task of protecting their own children.

    • The number one indicator of a sexual abuser is not his religious affiliation or family association, but the fact that he is a male. Men, by far, are the sexual abusers of children and women. We don't need to teach children about the dangers of anal sex — we need to teach men who sexually abuse that they will get at least a lengthy prison term (I'd vote for castration but for some reason our male-dominated governments aren't keen on this punishment). If we were serious about protecting children (and the men in our society really aren't), we would give hefty punishment for pornography possession and ban tv programs that consistently portray women as victims of graphic sexual crimes. People who think that teaching kids about their bodies will in any way prevent sexual assault are in dreamland. The only lesson a child or woman needs to be taught is where the balls are and how to kick them, hard.

      • Castration doesn't eliminate the urge or other methodologies, unfortunately. I do agree that pedophile laws need an extreme makeover. I am ashamed and disgusted by what I witness in my profession; Canadian law would have you believe Canadians do not value their children. It's incredibly, incredibly sad.

    • Why are you so sure parents are incapable of raising their children properly? Do your realize that the teen pregnancy, pedophile groups are a fringe element in Canadian society? There's always room for improvement, but I have yet to encounter a single argument for why these new additions to the curricula could not occur at the present age/grade that has been in practice for decades. Do you really believe it's too late at 12 years old? Most kids are not participating in so-called blowjob parties or getting knocked up at 13 or contracting HIV before graduation. It just is not the facts and in comparison to the West as well as other countries, we're doing just fine. You might want to ask yourself exactly WHO is getting pregnant/STDs/abused as opposed to makign sweeping generalizations about the entire Canadian population. There are reasons why Sandy starts fooling around at 11 and Johnny does not, and the fact is they are both receiving the same provincial standardized sexual education.

    • My parents taught me nothing about sex. A number of men including teachers and counsellors tried to *come onto me* me. I knew instinctively that it was wrong. People do have a conscience, as do children, unless they are sociopaths. I thank God no one exposed me to every kind of sex act out there when I was a child. I have had a productive life with three children and enjoyed being married for almost 40 years…..All without explicit sexual info. When you look at the number of children in the world, it looks like people manage to figure things out.

      • I knew instinctively that it was wrong.

        What about the kids that don't know 'instinctively' that it's wrong? Too bad for them?

      • You say you worked things out "All without explicit sexual info. ". Nothing in the changes proposed by the Ontario government involved explicit sexual information for younger children. It is obvious that you have not read the proposed curriculum, so perhaps you should not comment until you have. Yes there are a lot of children in the world. If you open your eyes you will notice that a huge number of them are under fed, poor, uneducated and without parents equipped to look after them. Perhaps a little education about birth control might have an impact on this. Read your local paper and you will notice that a high percentage of gay children try to committ suicide because of the abuse they receive at school. Perhaps a little education might change that. Just because your parents taught you nothing and you yourself seem OK does not excuse your decision to deny knowledge to today's children.

  43. I had basic sex ed in grade four and was not remotely traumatized. Kids can handle a lot more than adults are ever willing to admit. Get over it. I for one greatly support the updates to the system.

  44. 50 years ago, deciding whether or not to instruct your child about sex carried with it the worst consequence being that they might contract syphilis, and have to go on antibiotics until cured.

    This is not, however, the 1960's. This is the age of AIDS. And leaving your child ignorant of sex can be fatal.

    Now, I hear the religious folk here objecting loudly, "What about my religion! I have a right to my religious freedom!"

    I would like to call their attention to the story of a Rabbi, who, during a great famine during the Dustbowl era of the 1930's that left Canada with reduced agricultural output and therefore little food to pick from, stood at the front of the synagogue and ate a ham sandwich in front of the congregation assembled there. He did this because had he not asked his congregants to eat pork, which was one of the few meats available in the province at the time, they might very well have starved. It was a time of crisis, and therefore the customary dietary restrictions had to be set aside until that crisis had passed.

    So long as our youth are threatened by the spectre of an incurable, fatal illness that kills 100% of those infected-a death sentence from which there is no escape-you must set aside your religious dogma. You must do so, because sin is forgivable, but AIDS is incurable. And if you l9ove your children ata ll, you must spare them this most horrible disease, even if that offends your faith.

    If you truly do love your children, if you truly do love your neighbor as yourself, then for the love of God in Heaven, save their lives through proper education.

  45. I asked my 16 year old what he thought about starting sex-ed in Grade 3. He succinctly summed up his feelings by saying, "Mom, most kids in grade 3 still believe in Santa Claus. Why would teachers ruin what little of their innocence is still left?"

    • If we allowed 16 year old boys to design the school curriculum, Canadian schools would be turning out nothing but video game designers, car mechanics and rap musicians.

      Why are we so quick to insist that adults think like children? Do you want our country to be populated by people who never matured beyond late puberty?

      • Her 16 year-old is entitled to his opinion and it sounds like a rather well-thought out one at that. You, however, dismissed this opinion outright on the basis of age. You've also dismissed parents as "adults who think like children." Who exactly is best instructed to make decisions about raising children — parents or the government? I'd think long and hard about the consequences before answering.

    • "Mom, most kids in grade 3 still believe in Santa Claus. Why would teachers ruin what little of their innocence is still left?"

      Because ignorance isn't a desirable state of being. And, frankly, teaching kids age appropriate facts about reproductive health isn't going to ruin anyone's innocence.

  46. No Don, dicatorships keep the truth away from their people and berate or kill anyone with an informed opinion/education. But don't worry, you obviously won't be a victim.

    You can cheerlead them into office though.

  47. Further to this new agenda; in order for them to graduate from grade 8, will we be expected to "rent" them a hooker for the final "exam"?

    • No. And by the way, 50%+ of the class is going to be female…

  48. Funny how Catholic groups are opposing sex education in schools. I thought their priests have been teaching kids about this stuff for years now?

  49. The number one indicator of a sexual abuser is not his religious affiliation or family association, but the fact that he is a male. Men, by far, are the sexual abusers of children and women. We don't need to teach children about the dangers of anal sex — we need to teach men who sexually abuse that they will get at least a lengthy prison term (I'd vote for castration but for some reason our male-dominated governments aren't keen on this punishment). If we were serious about protecting children (and the men in our society really aren't), we would give hefty punishment for pornography possession and ban tv programs that consistently portray women as victims of graphic sexual crimes. People who think that teaching kids about their bodies will in any way prevent sexual assault are in dreamland. The only lesson a child or woman needs to be taught is where the balls are and how to kick them, hard.

  50. It is very frightening that a secular govt. with a Roman Catholic Premier is dictating what should be taught in our schools. It is true that many religious leaders have strange ideas about sexuality, but basically this should be left to parents to decide,and not to politicians and or teachers since we do not know what sexual oriontation they pursue. Anal sex is bestiality pure and simple.

  51. So do you think children should be taught this in school or in the home by parents?

  52. "Kids, here is a worksheet showing a woman wearing a burqa. Write the names beside the parts of her body."

    "Kids, here is a worksheet showing a man. Point to his head, finger, spleen, brain, lung, liver, foot, his other foot, and tongue. Can you find all ten of his fingers and thumbs?"

  53. Actually, open a dictionary and you'll see that anal sex and bestiality are different entities altogether.

    Are people really this obtuse?

  54. I'm sure you are trying to elude to something in a clever manner, but I'm afraid I don't see how your comment has anything to do with what is at hand. Care to explain?

    • Heh. Nice word choice.. even if it was unintentional.

      • Thanks to Thwin for pointing out my most unfortunate wording, I now understand Roger's comment. However, it's comments like Roger's that explicitly tell of some people's insensitivity to such issues. It's this insensitivity that justifiably worries some parents. It's not necessarily the material, but rather the undertone of which it is taught.

        With that said, the schools will obviously not teach sex ed. in the way Roger describes, even if his comment was meant to be comical.

        Oh, and why should I be thumbed down for my previous comment? I was just asking a question. Sorry if I lack the perverted mindset?

  55. mcguinty's a dufus, but at least he seems to get it on this one.

  56. This thread has just been flooded by pedophiles.Look at these disgusting comments.

  57. Yes, because it's well known kids will never try anything that hasn't been properly explained to them. Oh wait..

    Perhaps by explaining it, hopefully before they get involved in actually doing it, we can at least make sure they know the risks.

    Or do you for some reason think the school-board is going to be educating kids in the context of encouraging them to do it? Does that make any real sense to you once you stop using your gut and start thinking logically about it?

  58. They do seem to be a little more self-possessed than the norm, I'll give you that.

  59. A lot of people on this thread take the attitude "they're going to find out anyway so let's expose them to it in a formal setting."

    This line of reasoning is wrong on two counts:

    (1) They aren't necessarily "going to find out anyway". If your kids trust you and you raise them with a strong sense of right and wrong, and help them understand that seeking certain things out at this age will harm them (therefore making it wrong), they will follow your guidance. You don't have to hide anything from them – they will avoid the cesspools of their own free will.

    (2) Even if it were impossible to get kids to avoid the cesspools, wouldn't it be better to have the parents teach them rather than a teacher? Who is raising your kids, you or the guy you barely know who may or may not have his own kids, may or may not be sexually responsible, and may or may not care one way or the other how your kids turn out? Grow up.

    • Spot on. I see a lot of seemingly single adults deeming both children and their parents too stupid to avoid the pitfalls of teen pregnancy, etc., without it being a part of a provincially standardized workbook. It's interesting to see that neither character, free will, independent thought, or cultural background come to the fore in the minds of most commenters before they arbitrarily press the statist button on this issue.

      I said this yesterday and I see it now, if this came down to a vote those voters the Liberals have been courting at their peril would join forces with the Conservatives and drive down this issue. I now see McGuinty's withdrawn his proposal before it took wing and crashed and burned on its own.

    • Or at least.. they'll not tell you about what they've found out.

      • If your kids put that little trust in you, you have much deeper problems than this to worry about.

  60. I think McGuinty has been sniffing a bad lube of some sort. But ,gah! lets go for the Culture War!

    "I am going to teach your children how to use anal whether you like it or not! And, if you refuse, they can drop out of school and beg (or use anal lube) for a living!

    How about an extra hour of math class or phys. ed. – kinda boring

  61. when i was but a youngster i think we had sex ed in junior high school (grade 7/8) ..however, word gets out before the education system teaches you …it does however make sense to have it for the people who never got to the info before

  62. David Bart, this is not the age of HIV/AIDS. The 80s were a close call, but the rate of HIV contraction in the gay community has been cut in half and the current rate of infection in the entire Canadian population is ~1.5%. HIV was/is a problem among gay males because HIV is almost always transmitted through anal sex (excepting other methods like needle-sharing). Students are taught all about HIV in sex ed now and know this.

    • Oh, so now AIDS is over? There,s a vaccine for it, or maybe it's been eradicated? We're all safe now, is that it?

      I think maybe you should inform Health Canada about this medical miracle you've uncovered. They'd be thrilled to hear it.

      Perhaps you'll even get the Nobel Prize. Vivian's cured HIV, everyone! Hoorah!

    • This isn't accurate. The studies show that the rate of infection is higher for anal sex (1.7% per act, compared to 0.08% for male to female vaginal intercourse), but not to the point where you can reasonably conclude that it is 'almost always transmitted through anal sex'.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV#Sexual

      • Yes, you can. If infection through oral sex is almost negligible, infection through kissing has only occurred once historically, and vaginal infection occurs 21 times less frequently than infection from anal intercourse, than most people who get HIV from sexual intercourse — as I was careful to distinguish from non-sexual methods — get it from anal transmission. Point zero eight percent is much, much, much lower frequency than 1.7%, and again we're statistically talking about risk, not actual infection. Thanks for coming out, though.

        • You said HIV is almost always transmitted through anal sex.

          The phrase 'almost always' is subjective, and misleading unless you can accurately define the term 'almost always'. A more accurate statement would be that anal sex significantly increases the rate of infection per act.

          • Semantics! Another noble cause for RunningHag to champion.

            Question: does picking nits ever get boring for you?

          • Language is important. Using dishonest language encourages dishonesty and ignorance. Most people won't take the time to look up the figures to determine for themselves what 'almost always' actually means.

            Question: Are you able to post a comment maturely, without including personal attacks?

  63. Doesn't that imply you get a choice in the matter as opposed to these Ontario parents. I think we need to better define what the government's rights and mandates are generally in regards to children as opposed to piecemeal when issues come up.
    Personally I believe the government's responsibility is to protect the health of it's citizens but I don't think the government should go about legislating beliefs and ideas. And when you start mandating education in such contentious and personal areas then you're definitely doing such. If we agree with Trudeau, that the state has no place in the bedrooms of the nation that would mean that the state shouldn't be teaching about the bedroom. It's ironic that some of the same people who believe the government has no business involving itself in who marries who, think the government should become involved in sexual matters in schools. And the converse holds true.
    Maybe I see this too black and whitely but either the government has a place in our sexuality or it doesn't.
    This shouldn't devolve into a debate over everyone's personal beliefs on anal sex because it misses the broader point

    • Personally I believe the government's responsibility is to protect the health of it's citizens

      the state shouldn't be teaching about the bedroom.

      Reproductive health is part of 'the health of … citizens'.

      It's ironic that some of the same people who believe the government has no business involving itself in who marries who, think the government should become involved in sexual matters in schools.

      The difference being of course that the government is not telling you that you must have sex, or with whom. The discussion is about the government providing education to children about reproductive health so that they can avoid things like STI's and pregnancy, and learn about their biology.

      See the difference? SSM is about legislating morality, sex-ed is about creating an educated populace.

  64. I learned about this kind of stuff in Grade 7-8 and I am ok. This is just a special interest ploy and the Governments attempt to throw and issue out knowing full well how people are going to react. Then withdraw it and say " we are thinking of Family Values." Shame on you Mcguinty. I will not be voted for you.

  65. My name is Holly, I'm a teenager in Canada.
    I think that kids should learn at a younger age about Sex Education. I have personally seen girls in grade 7 pregnant because they were not taught about the cons to sex.
    I'm not sure about everyone else, but I know when I'm older and have a child, I would not want them to be knocking a girl up, or getting pregnant. I've also just read an article about someone who had a strict catholic mother and she would not allow her child to learn about sex, and molestation. Her child was molested by her OWN pedophile father, and her child, because she did not know what to do, allowed it to happen. Fear was bestowed upon that child for years.
    TEACH your children. ALLOW them to be taught. If not, well then…you've got another thing coming.

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