The gun registry, the vote, the after-party -

The gun registry, the vote, the after-party


This week saw the big showdown over the long-gun registry. MPs voted 153-151 in favour of a Liberal motion that kills Conservative MP Candice Hoeppner’s private member’s bill to get rid of the registry. Just before the vote, a small group of young protesters stood in front of the Peace Tower demanding the registry be scrapped.


Bruce Hyer after the vote. He was one of the few NDP MPs who voted to keep the registry.


The Liberals held a victory party at D’Arcy McGee’s pub after the vote.


Liberal MP Mark Holland.


Liberal MP Anita Neville.


Liberal MP Alan Tonks (left) and Senator Terry Mercer.


Liberal MP Kirsty Duncan.


Senator David Smith (left).


The gun registry, the vote, the after-party

  1. Well of course they'd celebrate, this was a very big deal for them.

    You can bet Harper was kicking chairs.

    • Emily…not likely. This is a win-win for the Conservatives. Look at the comments on the Chronicle Herald this morning. Stoffer will be lucky to hang on to his seat after the next election.
      There will be 3-4 opposition seats that will change hands specifically because of the gun registry vote.
      The opposition proved they were in coalition mode with the Libs and Bloc whipping their votes on a private members' bill and Layton virtually whipping his vote through moral suasion.
      So the Libs should celebrate but they would have lost if it were not for the NDP. I guess the fact that Ignatieff's caucus did not abandon him was positive and deserving of celebration.

      • Stoffer won his last election with a 40% cushion over his nearest competitor. Losing his seat over one vote would appear to be extremely unlikely.

        Everything else you've said is just as wrong-headed too.

        • Truth doesn't matter to Harper, why should it to a conservative poster?

          • Mike T…..prove what I said is wrong.

          • Let's both send a large amount of money to be held by Macleans regarding whether Peter Stoffer wins his seat.

            YOu gonna put your money where your disingenuous little mouth is?

            Didn't think so.

          • Mike T……you are one tasty piece of work. Nothing concrete to say but to call other people names.

          • Yup, that's what I thought.

          • Call him a liar Mikey !

          • He's being disingenuos, definitely.

        • Richard_S_Argent……we shall see! There were some pretty angry comments in the Chroncile this morning.

          You may be right. However, getting too comfortable is a recipe for an upset. The "guns" will be focused on him big time for this major flip flop.

          • Many people, including myself, have looked at the NDP MPs who switched their votes – none of them seem very likely candidates to lose their seats. All the northern/rural MPs won their seats by significant margins (some by absurdly huge margins), and the runner up in each of the 5 was the Liberal candidate.

            Stoffer – 61.5%
            Con – 20.6%
            Lib – 12.8%

            Angus – 56.5%
            Lib – 22.2%
            Con – 18.2%

            Hughes – 45.5%
            Lib – 32.5%
            Con – 17.6%

            Gravelle – 46.5%
            Lib – 26.2%
            Con – 21.7%

            Thibeault – 35.1%
            Lib – 30.3&
            Con – 25.8%

            There was one southern/urban MP to switch his vote, Malcom Allen in Welland. Now he won by a razor thin majority – but I think we all can agree that the long gun registry vote isn't very likely to be a hot button issue in Welland – if we did, then we'd also have to agree that the long gun registry will be a hot button issue in Mississauga-Erindale – where the Conservative candidate beat the Liberal one by 0.43% (239 votes)

            Allen – 33%
            Con – 32%
            Lib – 28%

          • Richard_S_Argent…..Thanks for the hard work. However, anything can happen in an election when the issues are discussed. We shall see.

          • Let's compare and contrast:

            Hollinm 57 minutes ago: "This is a win-win for the Conservatives. Look at the comments on the Chronicle Herald this morning. Stoffer will be lucky to hang on to his seat after the next election.
            There will be 3-4 opposition seats that will change hands specifically because of the gun registry vote."

            Hollinm 3 minutes ago: "anything can happen in an election when the issues are discussed. We shall see."

            I think we can rightly surmise that the hollinm of 57 minutes ago was talking out his backside yet again and when confronted with something other than opinion was forced to retreat into vague generalities.

          • How many of the comments were written by you, h?

          • Jan…….I love tweaking you Liberals. If it wasn't for me you have nobody to fight with. After all everybody agreeing is a little boring don't you think?

            What if I said I really am a Liberal supporter? Just kidding. I will not vote for a party that does not elect its own leader and steals money from the taxpayers. I got fooled twice before by voting Liberal. Never again.

          • You're full of it, hollinm. You are a fully programmed , koolaid drinking Conbot. You will follow Harper wherever he leads you.

          • yeah….I can relate there…I got fooled into voting for harper……………never again

      • I'm sorry hollinm but language doesn't bend that way, much as you'd like it to.

        The country perceives it as a loss for Harper….because that's what it was.

        It is typical that Cons think of 'revenge', when it was a normal vote in a democracy. Majority rules.

        • Emily….what are you talking about. We are talking about the politics of the issue. Canadians know by a significant majority that the gun registry is wasteful and does not reduce crime.
          Yes the Conservatives lost the vote by 2. Count them 2. During the next campaign it will be an issue whether you like the language or not.
          Revenge?….there is no revenge. However, there is evidence of hypocrisy. Many of these rural members of the opposition campaigned for 15 years against the registry and then they flip flop because of pressure by the leaders.
          Obviously the majority rules. No matter is challenging the results.

          • Canadians are pro-gun registry in spite of your best efforts to make it appear otherwise.

            Cons started out winning this one….and then lost it.

            And a loss by 2….is still a loss.

            Harper pressures his MPs to vote the way he wants, and the others do the same. This tactic hasn't changed since 1867.

            By the time an election rolls around, other issues will be front and centre…and the gun registry vote will be history.

          • Emily….you may hope the registry will long be forgotten but in some rural ridings it was and still is the major issue. So feel free to keep you head in the sand.

            You are right the Conservatives started out winning this but the fact is the other three parties whipped their votes, formally or informally, demonstrating there is a coalition in the making.

          • but the fact is ,the other three all four parties whipped their votes, formally or informally.

            There, fixed it for you.

          • No, every riding in the country has a variety of concerns…most of them concerning the economy.

            The gun registry…like the census….wasn't, and still isn't an issue.

            And please don't pretend Harper doesn't whip his vote….each and every time. It demonstrates nothing other than ordinary parliamentary procedure since 1867.

          • Ok Cool it,

            It costs 4 Million dollars per yer for the registry! The Harper clowns wasted more money on signs to try to buy off canadians! I can continue, they reduced the value of the national statistical database by adding 30 Million to the cost of the survey!

            Please tell me how you can site the cost of the registry as a reason for killing it, its ridiculous, much like the supposed "conservative" initiatives that this group has supported!

          • Wes….you really believe that the long gun registry only costs $4 million a year. Yikes! You have been brain washed.
            The cost is not the issue if you have been paying attention. Yes there is a problem with costs since the inception of the program. The fact is it is bad public policy. It does not reduce crime and that was how it was sold initially. How registering farmers and duck hunters reduces crime is beyond me.

          • Cancelling it would only save 4 million. That is the relevent number. Crap, Harper spends as much on signs in a month.

          • how much has the Libs wasted in ont. (e-health, opg, olg, hst) it goes on and on, don't even want to think what BC is going through with the olympics and the hst revolt!!!!

          • Fun fact: Neither the Ontario nor the BC (especially not the BC!) Liberals have any official connection with the Liberal Party of Canada.

          • Campbell and Harper are thick as thieves. Campbell might as well have the Con logo tatooed on his forehead.

    • I can guarantee you Harper was not kicking chairs.

      If Harper could, he would be using that photo of Mark Holland for the next CPC fundraising drive.

  2. The "small group of young protesters " looks suspiciously like a bunch of Conservative staffers.

    • Anon…..tinfoil hat anyone?

      • Bad astroturfing. Love the kid in the blue blazer.

        • His yellow t-shirt with Splotchy the Oil Stain was at the cleaners . . .he's been trying to get that stain out for months.

    • LOL yes, they do.

    • Y'know, it does kinda look like some of them want t heir faces behind signs rather than being caught on camera.

    • B-52 shooters were apparently popular with the protest crowd apres protest, across the street..

  3. With every phony media person behind them ,every left wing police chief and emergency room, doctors they could only muster a 2 person win.Harper sucked them and Jacky right in.As soon as they get a chance to call an election they will start feeding the facts to the public.first they will insist that the police come up with concrete evidence how many lives have been saved.If the are smart they will also investigate hospital emergency room records to show how many people arrived on their doorstep shot with a long gun.When i see these elitist phony Liberals celebrating this as a great Victory I think of how they almost lost the vote to the separatists but their butt was saved by a little guy Dion who they booted out without a vote and left him thousands in debt. They are toast

    • And other Con whistling past the graveyard remarks. Ho hum.

    • You're right about Dion but not about much else.

    • Left wing police chiefs? Did I just read that?

      • Yes, didn't you know all our police chiefs are secretly socialist pacifist flower children? LOL

  4. actually, i just read a report from the police in lethbridge, ab. While the registry gets used about 11,000 times a day, its mostly automated requests. The report also said that while the department supported the registry, they could not notice that it had an inpact, in the end they summed it up by saying that the registry was mostly useless as it is rght now… go figure…and so much for democracy when you have to force your members to vote party line…starts to sound kind of a one man party, maybe a dictatorship??…

    • Yes, Harper should stop forcing his MPs to vote his way.

      Lethbridge….fortunately…does not run Canada

  5. Gee, I wonder if images of the Liberals whooping it up over "saving" the long gun registry are going to help them or hurt them among the 50% of the Canadian public that opposes the long gun registry?

    This Liberal party seems to be seriously hurting when it comes to communications & optics strategy. The Liberals get another "free" hang-over, and the Conservatives ring up another $10,000,000 in donations. Win-win indeed.

    • Those hangovers weren't "free." No tax payer dolars were used in purchasing of libations (unless you want to count people using their salaries to buy drinks).

      • Expense Accounts. They all got em, they all use em, they all want to keep em private, and they all get paid by you and me.

    • 50% of Canadians oppose it?

      Do you have any references to back up this silly statement?

      In fact there is plenty of data that says otherwise.

      As per usual with you people…never let the facts interfere with your myths.

      • Who exactly are "you people," Dan?

        And since there's so much data that says otherwise, go ahead and present it. The polls have swung stronger against the registry in recent months (due to a concerted publicity campaign) but the traditional and natural breakdown is about 50/50 for and against the long gun registry.


        More than a third of Canadians (38%, -5 since August) believe the registry has been unsuccessful in preventing crime in Canada, while three-in-ten (31%, 2) think it has had no effect on crime. Only 16 per cent of respondents ( 3) believe the Canadian Firearms Registry has been successful.

        Almost half of Canadians (46%, 2) call for the long gun registry to be scrapped—including large majorities in the Prairies (65%) and Alberta (69%). Two-in-five respondents (40%, 5) are opposed to this course of action, including 59 per cent of Quebecers.

        While 44 per cent of Urban Canadians would scrap the long gun registry, the proportion jumps to 53 per cent among Rural Canadians.


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  6. Prove Layton did.

    • Richard_S_Argent…….I said informally and thats what I meant. It was obvious he was putting significant pressure on his MPs to change their votes which was confirmed thru his various press conferences announcing that MPs had changed their position . That's tantamount to whipping them.

      Now back to the original question. Prove that Harper whipped his caucus.

      • Harper informally whipped his caucus too. Otherwise Bob Dechert would've sided with his constituency in Mississauga. The fact that he didn't proves that he informally whipped them.

        See? I can make stuff up too!

        (of course this wasn't the original question, but you already knew that :)

  7. Weren't you just berating someone earlier for having their head in the sand?

    The irony is delicious.

  8. It's dissapointing that the CBC and the Liberals, NDP, & Bloc have put out false information on the registry. This will definately backfire on them. I would hardly call 2 votes much of a win, and not won in a democratic manner, when Iggy dictates how to vote or they'll be punished.

    • Didn't the Conservatives whip the vote as well? I find it hard to imagine that they wouldn't.

  9. I am sick to death of hearing about duck hunters are farmers.
    Most suicides and domestic (read wives' and girlfriends') murders are done with long guns. Thos are proven stats.
    To my thinking anyone who has any type of gun (long or otherwise) around the house should have it registered. That's it. It makes them (or should!) more conscious of their duty instead of leaving it collecting dust at the back of that closet. My opinion. It's responsability like anything else. period
    Frankly, the fact they we are arguing guns with the empolyment rate the way it is and the recovery still so fragile is ridiculous. Like the census, it's a wedge issue and a smoke screen.

    • Where you are wrong is all guns in Canada have to be licensed. People have to take a course and be checked out thorougly.When law abiding people are made criminals, it's like Hitler did in pre war Germany. Take away peoples freedom and their rifle. Check out Switzerland, It's mandatory for everyone to learn how to use a rifle and most homes have one. Low crime rate in that country. The registry is an intrusive tool and did not stop any killings in this country. Not one.

      • you can't compare the Swiss…it's part of the National Militia. You're trained as part of the militia and your weapon is kept at home as part of the militia. Are you implying the Swiss government doesn't know who has one their guns in their home?!?!?
        You find it intrusive?!? Too bad ! Don't own a gun then. Some things require permits. It's that simple.
        Do you find it intrusive that you need a license??? So what's one more piece of paper that shows what guns you own also?!? It's the least intrusive part of the whole process

        • I'm implying that the Swiss allow their citizens to own a rifle and keep it in the home without a registry. We already have to have a gun permit. Our government knows who owns a gun without the registry. Countries like Switzerland have a lower crime rate. Countries like the UK that ban guns outright have an even higher gun crime rate(per capita) than the US. (taken from UN statistics)

          • The Swiss gvment. GIVES the gun to the person in question as part of the militia. If you wish to keep your gun, you return it, they modify it and give it back…so they KNOW who has the gun(s). And it's only about a third of Swiss homes who have guns according to recent stats.
            To use the Swiss as a comparison is like comparing apples and oranges. Obviously the Swiss have a very different view of guns period, as it relates to the protection of home and country as their militia situation is unique IN THE WORLD.
            Being known as the world's pacifists and also being quite isolated has some effect too….implying that is the lack of a gun registry that is the cause of their low crime rate is ludicrous when there are obviously a myriad of sociological factors at work there.
            And again the UK is a whole other argument too…..
            How can the government know who has a gun (and how many they have) WITHOUT a registry?!?! A permit doesn't tell you that
            You can cite UN statistics til you're blue in the face but your examples and arguements make no sense to the points you're trying to make

          • I can see you are not open to discussion. One last thing …a permit does let the authorities know who owns the gun, kinda like a driving permit. Oh well what would a woman win

          • thanks for thsybut I'm a woman too….
            and my point about permits not being enough is that entirely. A permit isn't enough – it doesn't tell you who has or hasn't got a good, so IMO, that's where a registry is needed
            And thanks again, but I am quite open to discussion, but you don't appear to be reading carefully enough. Your points don't support your contentions.
            The US has the higest gun crime death rate in the developing world – in the UK the police don't carry guns -how can you compare any of that with theed for a gun registry?!?!? again-APPLES AND ORANGES
            The Swiss gvmnt. gives the guns to the people, so how can you not see that they must KNOW who has the guns…why then would they need a registry…I can't see how any of these points you've made support any of your arguements.
            But if you can't support your contentions without resorting to snide insinuations that the problem rests with me…whatever

          • Comparing murder rates in the USA to that of the UK or Canada is disingenuous or at the very least naive. When comparing country's homicide rates as compared to their level of gun control, you will find that there is no correlation between the two.
            Jamaica, Russia and Mexico all have very strict gun laws, and yet have homicide rates far exceeding that of the USA. The Czech republic has similar gun laws to the USA, allowing concealed carry of handguns etc and yet has a similar homicide rate to Canada's.
            BTW gun crime in the UK has actually doubled since they banned handgun ownership. Go figure?

        • why would I go get a driver licence and insurance to register a vehicle then not buy 1, same goes with the gun registry,,,

          • Everybody who has a driver's licence also owns a car? Interesting.

          • they do, or they plan on driving one, or renting one, or leasing one, otherwise that would be ridiculous

          • Surely you see the difference between ownership and borrowing/renting right?

          • this is why teres two different types of licences two have or buy a gun

          • And as far as I know, you don't get insurance until you get a car, so that too makes little sense.
            What is with you folks are you just regurgitating talking points and not thinking about what you're saying?!?!?

            Many folks have licenses and dont drive * or did drive and dont anymore. Should we assume that if you had a gun permit, and don't use it anymore you just gave away your guns?!? And assume you did so responsably?!? Or assume you bought all the guns you wanted and have no responsability to tell anyone how many you have?!? Sorry, but I don't have enough faith in most folks to leave that wide open like that!

          • why would I keep it up to date without a cause

          • You're ASSuming that everyone thinks logically….I spend too much time wondering why some folks do what they do…LOL….mebbe because it would be too complicated to re-start the whole process at a later date should you wish to have a car or a gun. The point is, if you have either, you should have to register them…with freedoms come responsabilites…all part of the 'social contract'
            I hear ya now "EEK! She sounds communist!" ;)
            Seriously, I have too little faith in human nature to leave something so dangerous to choice.

          • so my great grandfathers musket thats on my wall that doesn't even work should be registered just like the tens of thousands of wreaks in peoples yards and garages that are keept for some sort of nostalgia

          • lets not stop there, lets register all people who know some sort of martial arts name

          • You mean a "martial arts name" like Bruce Lee? Almost everybody knows that name. We'd have register the entire country.

  10. as a Canadian, i am shocked that our parlimentarians are not allowed to vote as their constituents would like, but rather as their boss sees fit. Kinda like communism. Do as you're told or lose your job. I applaud those NDP's that did vote to scrap the registry, thankyou for your courage!

    • Every single party leader for every single party that ever held more than a single seat in Canadian Parliament are kinda, sorta like communists?


      • Yup, we'll tell ya how to vote. Democracy??

        • Somehow I think Stalin would disagree :)

    • "our parliamentarians are not allowed to vote as their constituents would like"

      And surely its coincidence that there is not a single CPC riding where the constituents would be in favour of the registry?

      The CPC were whipped no less than any other party, it just shows how open and transparent they are.

  11. Judging from the influx of unfamiliar and unregistered commenters, If I had to guess, I'd say that "the opposition coalition won because they whipped the vote – that's an anti-democracy twofer!" is the new talking point coming out of Blogging Tory Land :)

    • The is absolutely no doubt the Conservative whip also whipped Conservative M.P.'s so I don't see how that can be an issue..

  12. Its a sad day in hell, when some of the RCMP and city police, have to blatently provide false and misleading information on the gun registry, in an all out effort to maintain such a lucrative "plum", for the CACP.
    Will Government now start to listen to their constituents, hold bureaucracy accountable and jump on people like Bill Blair, – Toronto police chief – who have been making decisions, – or trying to – that affect our Canadian Rights and Freedoms.
    I believe the Police chief who conducted the survey of some 2600 "street" officers and 2400 0f these respondents said, that they didn't trust the registry, should have been the one at the podium in Ottawa and not the pompous Blair.
    This burgeon police state mentality must be totally eradicated.

    • So true. Consider though the average Canadian has a poor knowledge of our history and so are easily swayed by arguments that are based on personal prejudice against firearms, ignorance of our historic gun culture, anti-gun propaganda and ignorance of the subject of gun control as a whole. Some deluded individuals and political parties even propose bans knowing full well only the law abiding are affected. Just look at the quality of comments. Direct answers about the lack of documentation and empirical studies supporting the registry are never given. Some are so bereft of logic that they resort to name calling and mud slinging. I might think privately that Bill Blair shows fascist tendencies but I wouldn't say it in public.

  13. Okay…so there was a big celebration over a program which has turned out to be a huge waste of money. Gun registry ?…everyone has their opinion, but from what I have seen again and again, is a very biased approach to the support of a poorly managed, questionable program. It makes me ill to see the money dumped into this while we have homeless Canadians wandering the streets, kids with less than standard education, and food lines out of control. Celebrate that !!

  14. can i please get info. about the gun registry i need it for my project. can i also know why they started the gun registry?

    • A couple of choices for researched material jump to mind. The Canadian Shooting Sports Assoc. and the Fraser Institute studies by Prof. Gary Mauser. Good luck!

    • Do your homework, missy. I'd suggest starting with Google.

  15. A MODERN DAY WITCH HUNT. thats what our current gun laws amount to.Continuous background checks on who? farmers and duck hunters. Who, by the way, dont mug your granny. Yet, criminalized they be, by Gamil Gharbi, aka,Mark Lepine. Party on, oh libtard braindead, you dance on hallowed ground, free to do so, in celebration of the ignorance of how the freedom for you to carry on so, was gained from the victory of Canadian soldiers who FOUGHT AND DIED for OUR FREEDOM. GUN LICENSING, and REGISTRATION, is an affront to freedom. If anyone would take thetime to read these laws, in the "criminal code of Canada" one can quickly see, that it is IRRESPONSaBLE to license and register, and treasonous to the idealsof freedom and the CHARTER, which states"innocent until proven guilty" the Firearmsact states, "GUILTY, GUILTY,GUILTY"

    • Herp derp derpa derp herp derp derp derp. Der takin er Guns!!!

    • the rest of us just cry for Bambi’s mom.

  16. missy, search, Montreal Massacre" and,, and, Bruce montague, and (youtube, katie'sfirearmfacts) the registry deadline, by threat of imprisonment, was, January 1 2000, I think thats right, and, the Licensing requirement, also by threat of imprisonment, was January 1st 1998. on that day, seven and a half million honest citizensbecame instant criminals. and wesit back, and criticise CHINA for human rights abuses…..

  17. Overall, the vote on the long gun registry was a step backwards for democratic process in Canada. Mr. Ignatieff had to whip the Liberals on a private member's bill to bring his rural dissidents into line and Mr. Layton choreographed a 'free' vote of his caucus in the backroom so the pro-registry side could win by two votes. Only the Conservatives and the Bloc came out clean as both parties had their corporate positions clear well before any legislation came before Parliament. The Liberals had a double handicap as they are led by a man who was out of the country during the whole history of this Liberal boondoggle.

  18. I think it is a mistake to keep a gun registry that cost an enormous amount of money and does not work. If the politicians would be for the interest of the people, They would use the money, presently use for this so call gun registry to hire more police officers which in turn would definitely be more effective to lower the amount of crimes by gun and violence in Canada

  19. I wouldn't mind getting rid of the registry, but I'm aggravated with Harper for using this purely as an election issue rather than a matter of sound policy. The registry could be modified to be less hassle to gun-owners, the NDP and Liberals have said they'd be happy to modify it, but Harper's not even interested in a discussion, because he'd rather use the issue as a political bludgeon than look for a compromise solution. The cost of the registry, while ridiculous, isn't relevant because the cost was involved in setting it up – the money's gone, maintaining the registry will be a lot cheaper, and abolishing the registry won't bring the money back, it will just waste it.

    Also, the comments of "don't treat hunters like criminals!" are ridiculous. Nobody's saying they're criminals. Nobody's saying urban gun-owners are criminals either, but they still have to register their firearms.

  20. Katherine, YOU ARE WRONG. read the laws, what is rediculous, is how IGNORANT you are of the FACTS. search Bruce Montague, and, Katey'sfirearmfacts on you tube, heres a prime example of a man who never threatened or harmed anyone, and is rotting in ajail cell right now, because of these gun laws ONLY….the Ontario Provincial government seized the family home, so while Bruce rots in prison, his daughter fights to draw attention to her fathers plight, and mom, Donna sits at home, waiting for the sherriff to kick her out of her home. And, the anti gun media ignores this, its true, its happening right now, here in Canada, NO JOKE. Read the laws, Katherine, Farmers and Duck Hunters are treated WORSE than criminals, because at least CRIMINALS have RIGHTS in CANADA, NOT GUN OWNERS, NOT anymore, they were ALL criminalized with the passing of Bill C-68, (the firearms act) NOW LAW IN CANADA, as per the CRIMINAL CODe.

  21. THE LAWS SAY we are criminals, if the same laws WERE applied to real criminals, they would get prison time BEFORE they broke any laws, not quite right, they would be arrested/jailed just in case they may one day break the law. so reads the firearms act, and, thesection called, firearms and other weapons.

  22. The Prime Minister Harper was not very happy after the vote, he said that he will not let it like that….well in his own words. I understand that has deputy he will not be very bienvenu in his county after this vote….he will have to explain himself. He is supposed to have power as a Prime Minister…well for once I, he lost and I am very happy…..

    I am very tired to see young kids, taking gun's'fathers and go to school and kill young studient, professor, workers, and after often, kill themself.
    Or often, listen to the radio, a father kill his wife and his 3 children before turning his gun in his face.
    You gonna tell me, often, these gun as been buy in the black market,…may be, but if one of theses guns have been in a registery, we will be able to find out who is the killer, and solve a police record, and often, help a famely to past true a lot of problem.

  23. Prove that Harper didn't whip! You can'ter!