Undemocratic? Pfff says Harper - Macleans.ca
 

Undemocratic? Pfff says Harper

‘It’s better when you’re turning people away than when you can’t get people to come’


 

“It’s better when you’re turning people away than when you can’t get people to come,” Stephen Harper said at a campaign stop in Markham Wednesday morning in reference to accusations that his Conservative Party has been doing background checks on attendees at campaign rallies, and barring those with suspect partisan loyalties. For example, one young woman was apparently ordered to turn her T-shirt inside out because it had a slogan endorsing environmentally-friendly fuels. Another girl, a 19-year-old student, was booted out of a rally because her Facebook page contained a picture of her with Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff. These actions, Ignatieff and NDP leader Jack Layton say, are undemocratic, even “un-Canadian.” But so far, Harper has refused to comment on the specific incidents, and fluffed off the charges that they would stifle democracy.

Toronto Star


 
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Undemocratic? Pfff says Harper

  1. I'm astonished that anyone is trying to defend this.

  2. I'm astonished that anyone is trying to defend this.

  3. Opposition supporters disrupting the Conservative rallies at the federal and provincial level is common place. A few years ago I attended a PC rally in Halifax which was disrupted by a group of 20 somethings who stood up during a speech and started screaming jibberish. They had to be literally dragged out of the event kicking and screaming by the police. It is unfortunate that the Tories have to limit access to their rallies but it is a political necessity.

  4. Nothing to see here folks, no seriously – no controversies, no policies, no vision, no democracy, nothing. Leave Harper alone or he'll ban the press outright.

  5. Opposition supporters disrupting the Conservative rallies at the federal and provincial level is common place. A few years ago I attended a PC rally in Halifax which was disrupted by a group of 20 somethings who stood up during a speech and started screaming jibberish. They had to be literally dragged out of the event kicking and screaming by the police. It is unfortunate that the Tories have to limit access to their rallies but it is a political necessity.

    • And that would make for a better defense than "I don't care".

      Although he already apologized and that was the right thing to do. The way he's acting about it does give me good reason to not want to vote for his one-man show, I mean "party".

    • Not only was this action undemocratic, but it also flies in the face of our justice system. Opposition supporters should be ejected if they choose to disrupt political dialogue. But association with the opposition does not mean that an attendee will inevitably cause a disturbance. Acceptance and promotion of this flawed reasoning will not only lead to unfair suppression of political debate, but to widespread abuse of our justice system as it becomes socially acceptable to render punishment for crimes by mere association to those who would be statistically more likely to commit them. No amount of "necessity", political or otherwise, should be acceptable in a democratic nation.

    • So what? The test of character is how you deal with disruptions. For him to make assumptions about what someone who attends might do is also a test of his character and Harper failed the test.

  6. And that would make for a better defense than "I don't care".

    Although he already apologized and that was the right thing to do. The way he's acting about it does give me good reason to not want to vote for his one-man show, I mean "party".

  7. I wish they would, they ask the most ridiculous question, all the while making sure that Iggy stays in his liberal bubble( bubble wrap)

  8. I wish they would, they ask the most ridiculous question, all the while making sure that Iggy stays in his liberal bubble( bubble wrap)

    • At least with the group of 20 somethings, it was a response to a disruptive action. Not only is Harper relying on unreported crime as support for his crime policies, he seems to have found some sort of "Minority Report" method of stopping crime before the criminal has even considered committing one. I hope he wields this awesome power responsibly.

      And, I dunno, but although I'm not a big fan of such histrionic disruptions, I kind of like the idea that we are a free enough society that we can still tolerate dissenting voices at political rallies, however distasteful or nonsensical they may be.

  9. How are Canadians standing for this type of dictatorship treatment! To have had the RCMP complicent in this by looking into each person's background is horrendous! We are no longer a democracy. Harper's total disinterest in democracy should be a warning for us all. When Harper staffers infiltrate these blogs posting disinformation, outright lies or distractions its a cause for concern. Harper's answer is ridiculous. There wasn't standing room only. This person was turned away solely because she might (& the operative word here is 'might') ask a question Harper doesn't want to answer. He stacks his rooms with stance supporters only. Wake up Canada. Canada can no longer afford a Reform/Alliance govt. Harper must go.

  10. How are Canadians standing for this type of dictatorship treatment! To have had the RCMP complicent in this by looking into each person's background is horrendous! We are no longer a democracy. Harper's total disinterest in democracy should be a warning for us all. When Harper staffers infiltrate these blogs posting disinformation, outright lies or distractions its a cause for concern. Harper's answer is ridiculous. There wasn't standing room only. This person was turned away solely because she might (& the operative word here is 'might') ask a question Harper doesn't want to answer. He stacks his rooms with stance supporters only. Wake up Canada. Canada can no longer afford a Reform/Alliance govt. Harper must go.

    • The word you are looking for is complicit, as in "To have had the RCMP complicit…"

      Oh, and do try calming down. There's a dear. You're going to pop something.

  11. Not only was this action undemocratic, but it also flies in the face of our justice system. Opposition supporters should be ejected if they choose to disrupt political dialogue. But association with the opposition does not mean that an attendee will inevitably cause a disturbance. Acceptance and promotion of this flawed reasoning will not only lead to unfair suppression of political debate, but to widespread abuse of our justice system as it becomes socially acceptable to render punishment for crimes by mere association to those who would be statistically more likely to commit them. No amount of "necessity", political or otherwise, should be acceptable in a democratic nation.

  12. The word you are looking for is complicit, as in "To have had the RCMP complicit…"

    Oh, and do try calming down. There's a dear. You're going to pop something.

  13. It is unfortunate that there is not more free access but there have been enough situations to warrant being careful. The PETA nutbar who threatened Gail Shea and 'pied' her last year. The environmental groups can be very disruptive and I would think they are very much on the lookout for any trying to cause a scene.

    "At a news conference held by Foreign Affairs Minister Lawrence Cannon and Ottawa MP John Baird, who was government house leader in the last parliament, 51-year-old mother Sheenagh McMahon interrupted reporters asking questions so she could ask why Canadians should trust the Conservatives.
    “I promise you Mr. Baird if you avoid answering this direct question today, if you do not give a direct answer, I will dog your steps wherever you appear in your riding. I will be there with this question until you answer it directly,” she said. "
    http://blog.decisioncanada.ca/uncategorized/ottaw

  14. It is unfortunate that there is not more free access but there have been enough situations to warrant being careful. The PETA nutbar who threatened Gail Shea and 'pied' her last year. The environmental groups can be very disruptive and I would think they are very much on the lookout for any trying to cause a scene.

    "At a news conference held by Foreign Affairs Minister Lawrence Cannon and Ottawa MP John Baird, who was government house leader in the last parliament, 51-year-old mother Sheenagh McMahon interrupted reporters asking questions so she could ask why Canadians should trust the Conservatives.
    “I promise you Mr. Baird if you avoid answering this direct question today, if you do not give a direct answer, I will dog your steps wherever you appear in your riding. I will be there with this question until you answer it directly,” she said. "
    http://blog.decisioncanada.ca/uncategorized/ottaw

    • Oh my god! A voter demanding an answer! We can't have that!!!

  15. I was planning on not voting this election as, frankly, I am sick and tired of every party. BUT, the unbelivable bias and revolting slant towards the NDP and/or Liberals from Canuckistans media has made me realize what an ugly place this will become if the hypocritical left wins the day.

    • Harper's bouncers. Nice waste of tax payer dollars.

      • It is my understanding that hey were not Harper's bouncers but RCMP acting on instructions from the PCO (Privy Council Office, a non political office) See below

    • garbage.

  16. So what? The test of character is how you deal with disruptions. For him to make assumptions about what someone who attends might do is also a test of his character and Harper failed the test.

  17. You'd be complaining if the press hadn't reported Harper's response.
    Given such low voter turn put in Canada, having a PM who claims to be a democrat and throws students out of his audience because of a face-book picture, is hardly encouraging young people to become involved in the political process.

  18. You'd be complaining if the press hadn't reported Harper's response.
    Given such low voter turn put in Canada, having a PM who claims to be a democrat and throws students out of his audience because of a face-book picture, is hardly encouraging young people to become involved in the political process.

    • Actually Budster, its all the more reason for students to become involved. This is your/their future at stake here. What kind of future do you want…freedom of speech/freedom of the press/freedom of assembly..etc. If so (as well as OHIP, UI, OAS, pensions, etc.) students had better get out in throngs & vote these 'criminals' out, the sooner the better. Canada can't afford a Reform/Alliance government.

  19. Harper's bouncers. Nice waste of tax payer dollars.

  20. The media and their Liberal comrades continuing their (mad as hell we don't have power anymore) rush to irrelevancy and impotence. This little stunt will do nothing more then become part of the manufactured, specious media, Liberal party narrative against the Conservatives, signifying nothing, other then perhaps desperation. Although it is a good deflection technique away from the Liberal party cap@trade tax, money redistribution scheme, and their tax@spend regurgitation of the "RedBook".

  21. The media and their Liberal comrades continuing their (mad as hell we don't have power anymore) rush to irrelevancy and impotence. This little stunt will do nothing more then become part of the manufactured, specious media, Liberal party narrative against the Conservatives, signifying nothing, other then perhaps desperation. Although it is a good deflection technique away from the Liberal party cap@trade tax, money redistribution scheme, and their tax@spend regurgitation of the "RedBook".

  22. Dictatorship with minority!

    Majority?! LOL! can you imagine the Harper regime with a majority government?! SCARY!.

  23. Dictatorship with minority!

    Majority?! LOL! can you imagine the Harper regime with a majority government?! SCARY!.

  24. The Liberal party told its members that they could not vote for their party leader in a democratic vote, and instead Iggy was chosen by the Liberal elite politbureau.

    Iggy, the hand selected leader who was chosen by the most undemocratic means imaginable, wags his finger as being undemocratic, the trifiling policing against hecklers that all parties do.

    Rather remarkable.

    More remarkable is the fact that the media has completely whitewashed Iggy's undemocratic rise, while dutifully parroting Iggy's charge of "undemocratic!!" Harper.

    The most corrupt left leaning press we've seen in a generation is now upon us.

  25. The Liberal party told its members that they could not vote for their party leader in a democratic vote, and instead Iggy was chosen by the Liberal elite politbureau.

    Iggy, the hand selected leader who was chosen by the most undemocratic means imaginable, wags his finger as being undemocratic, the trifiling policing against hecklers that all parties do.

    Rather remarkable.

    More remarkable is the fact that the media has completely whitewashed Iggy's undemocratic rise, while dutifully parroting Iggy's charge of "undemocratic!!" Harper.

    The most corrupt left leaning press we've seen in a generation is now upon us.

    • Not to worry. Fox North should fix things up for ya. I hear Glen might be lookin for a job shortly

  26. At least with the group of 20 somethings, it was a response to a disruptive action. Not only is Harper relying on unreported crime as support for his crime policies, he seems to have found some sort of "Minority Report" method of stopping crime before the criminal has even considered committing one. I hope he wields this awesome power responsibly.

    And, I dunno, but although I'm not a big fan of such histrionic disruptions, I kind of like the idea that we are a free enough society that we can still tolerate dissenting voices at political rallies, however distasteful or nonsensical they may be.

  27. Oh my god! A voter demanding an answer! We can't have that!!!

  28. I am surprised that the press and the other parties are not aware of the fact that the Privy Council Office (PCO) a non-political body, (not the PMO which is politically oriented) is routinely concerned for the security of the PRIME MINISTER because of the position,. not the incumbent. It routinely evaluates threats to the PM in public places and gathering and informs the RCMP of perceived threats. They did the same when Chretien was PM. In this day and age I am not surprised that they spotted obviously Arab/Middle East names just as the obviously look for hecklers. That's whuy the look of surprise on the PM's demeanor when questioned. I.E it was not a Political Issue, but one of standard concern for security. Also, there is a reasonable concern that such named persons wit the stated associatio0ns were potential hecklers because of the Canadian Government's position on Israel.

    This tells me that CTV and Macleans columnists are either terribly biased or terribly ignorant. Shame is on the media, and possibly the PCO and the RCMP for being ham-handed, not the PM or hisow2n staff.

  29. I am surprised that the press and the other parties are not aware of the fact that the Privy Council Office (PCO) a non-political body, (not the PMO which is politically oriented) is routinely concerned for the security of the PRIME MINISTER because of the position,. not the incumbent. It routinely evaluates threats to the PM in public places and gathering and informs the RCMP of perceived threats. They did the same when Chretien was PM. In this day and age I am not surprised that they spotted obviously Arab/Middle East names just as the obviously look for hecklers. That's whuy the look of surprise on the PM's demeanor when questioned. I.E it was not a Political Issue, but one of standard concern for security. Also, there is a reasonable concern that such named persons wit the stated associatio0ns were potential hecklers because of the Canadian Government's position on Israel.

    This tells me that CTV and Macleans columnists are either terribly biased or terribly ignorant. Shame is on the media, and possibly the PCO and the RCMP for being ham-handed, not the PM or hisow2n staff.

    • Amazing. They tell you to fear the Arab and you fear the Arab. One almost wishes they told you to fear your own shadow, if only for the comedic possibilities.

  30. garbage.

  31. It is my understanding that hey were not Harper's bouncers but RCMP acting on instructions from the PCO (Privy Council Office, a non political office) See below

  32. "…I am not surprised that they spotted obviously Arab/Middle East names just as the obviously look for hecklers." "I.E it was not a Political Issue, but one of standard concern for security. Also, there is a reasonable concern that such named persons wit the stated associatio0ns were potential hecklers because of the Canadian Government's position on Israel."

    W.O.W.

    So based solely on their names they according to you pose a reasonable security risk to the PM as well as represent a possible question on a policy issue about Israel (got to love how you are assuming things out of thin air here based solely on your beliefs/prejudices) that would be contrary to the message of PM Harper and therefore there is reasonable grounds to eject these girls because they represent either a threat to the security of the PM or somehow to the dignity of the PM by daring to ask a question that is unfavourable to him. Do you have any idea how 1) racist that sounds on the security threat aspect and 2) how inherently anti-democratic that sounds both in terms of a politician not being willing/able to face any hostile questions from voters/citizens during an election especially a party leader looking to form government as well as in terms of it being ASSUMED by you that there must be a hostile question coming in the first place?

    I would point out in the case of "1" since these were pre-screened individuals any security flag that might be triggered by their names would have had the time to be screened before the actual appearance so even on the actual logic of that assumption it doesn't work because they were till permitted to attend initially instead of being refused at the door. As for "2", you are assuming not only that they want to make the PM look bad with a hostile question asked in a heckling manner (which btw any party leader looking to form government should be willing to face while campaigning, it is part of the process and Harper deserves no special treatment on this, to think otherwise indicates some serious fundamental lack of understanding of the basics of not just Canadian democracy in action but simple democracy in action at all) but that they would do so on the issue of Israel. Apparently you jumped to that conclusion all based on their names and ethnicity/beliefs presumed by those names. Not only are the assumptions involved based on nothing but your own imaginings they indicate a less than pleasant whiff of bigotry/intolerance/racism in your nature to be willing to go so far on simply their names given there is NOTHING else in the public record to support these assumptions.

    What this tells me is that your problems are much deeper and worse than any with the media, CTV, Macleans etc, and that you feel so comfortable with airing such in a nation forum such as this in defence of what is a true affront to the basic democratic and electoral process that this land has been governed by since its birth as a nation does not speak well of you and those you believe deserve your support, no not at all.

  33. Amazing. They tell you to fear the Arab and you fear the Arab. One almost wishes they told you to fear your own shadow, if only for the comedic possibilities.

  34. Not to worry. Fox North should fix things up for ya. I hear Glen might be lookin for a job shortly

  35. Actually Budster, its all the more reason for students to become involved. This is your/their future at stake here. What kind of future do you want…freedom of speech/freedom of the press/freedom of assembly..etc. If so (as well as OHIP, UI, OAS, pensions, etc.) students had better get out in throngs & vote these 'criminals' out, the sooner the better. Canada can't afford a Reform/Alliance government.

  36. Yes, the left is going to decide how to treat you based on your Facebook profile.

  37. Why is no one talking about the way Harper treated Canadians citizens at the G8 last summer? Harper has to control everyone and every situation. He won't even allow the people running for his own party to conduct interviews. His voice is the only one he wants heard!

  38. Why is no one talking about the way Harper treated Canadians citizens at the G8 last summer? Harper has to control everyone and every situation. He won't even allow the people running for his own party to conduct interviews. His voice is the only one he wants heard!

  39. Harper you are a pathetic, dim-witted misanthrope, stop trying to be a leader, because a leader you are not. You are everything that is twisted and wrong with the world rolled up into a fat pasty white sack. Your brain seems to feed on paranoia and disinformation, you are very very sick in the head. You have no right to act the way you do while trying to be leader of Canadians, you are an example of what is inhuman and evil and your shortsightedness is there to maintain your meaningless, without-value world at the expense of a future for our children (ie: warplanes and prisons over HEALTHCARE; you're a dumba$$)

  40. After reading you're inane vapid hate filled rant, I would suggest that it is you that is the "dumbass". Perhaps you're even King of the "dumbass's".

  41. After reading you're inane vapid hate filled rant, I would suggest that it is you that is the "dumbass". Perhaps you're even King of the "dumbass's".

  42. This kind of diabolic diatribe would be one reason why I wouldl vote for a Harper gov….please take advantage of our health care system.

  43. This kind of diabolic diatribe would be one reason why I wouldl vote for a Harper gov….please take advantage of our health care system.

  44. Our politicians/ potential politicians have to rely on other people doing the right thing…but are held to a higher standard of responsibility than the average for their subordinates actions. Who plans / corrdinates / implements / and PAYS for those venues? …the election road is a hectic one; with elections our politicans time is too valuable and the cost too great including, for democracy, if at these venues our candidates cannot get their meassage to the masses….how about the right of the other people who would be present and feel cheated/ threatened by these hecklers….too bad about this case but it shows good security.

  45. Our politicians/ potential politicians have to rely on other people doing the right thing…but are held to a higher standard of responsibility than the average for their subordinates actions. Who plans / corrdinates / implements / and PAYS for those venues? …the election road is a hectic one; with elections our politicans time is too valuable and the cost too great including, for democracy, if at these venues our candidates cannot get their meassage to the masses….how about the right of the other people who would be present and feel cheated/ threatened by these hecklers….too bad about this case but it shows good security.

  46. the Nazis did background checks
    but certain "ethnic groups" were better off not going to a convention
    people of certain "ethnic groups" were booted from those rallies too

  47. the Nazis did background checks
    but certain "ethnic groups" were better off not going to a convention
    people of certain "ethnic groups" were booted from those rallies too