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Unrest in China

Tension between the Uighurs and ethnic Han Chinese has left 140 dead


 

More than 140 people are dead following protests in Urumqi, capital of China’s western Xinjiang region. Much of Xinjiang is home Uighurs, a Muslim minority ethnically related to other Turkic Central Asians, such as Uzbeks and Kazakhs. Uighurs are discriminated against in China, and tensions in Xinjiang have risen as more and more ethnic Han Chinese are settled there. Chinese state authorities claim the protesters were violent and armed with knives and batons, while Uighur exiles say the protest was peaceful until Chinese security forces broke it up with guns and cattle prods.

BBC News


 
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Unrest in China

  1. Violence involving Muslims? That's new…

  2. Right.. and the Communist Chinese government is innocent in all this, eh? You're tarring an entire religious group with the same prejudicial brush.

    • Not at all, I'm no fan of Communism, wherever it springs it's head. What you have is an ideology that requires suppression of dissent, and a religious ideology (when brought to the extreme) that requires people to strap bombs to themselves and become martyrs. Together violence is inevitable, but lately I've been really sick and tired of Muslim minorities claiming their right to establish a separate Islamic Republic. Uighurs today, Islamic fighters bombing a Catholic church in the Philippines yesterday, suppression of dissent in Iran, etc. But when it comes to which side I would choose, China or Islamic separatists, I have to grind my teeth and go with China. Say what you will about China, at least they don't believe anybody who doesn't follow their ideology is a moron who needs to be converted. Whenever there is a Muslim minority, there is always a separation debate (Serbia and Kosovo, The Philippines, The Punjab, Kashmir, Thailand, Malaysia, etc.).
      Maybe it's just me, but stone-age beliefs belong exactly there: in the stone age, not in our age of science and evidence. Religion holds us back, it doesn't push us foreword. Name me one religiously-run country that actually did something to better all mankind.
      And by the way, it was a joke. Every time someone says something negative about religion, people whip out the politically correct crap (or burn down your embassy if you draw a cartoon). Christian Catholics molest children, and Islamofascistm incites violence. Sue me.

    • Not at all, I'm no fan of Communism, wherever it springs it's head. What you have is an ideology that requires suppression of dissent, and a religious ideology (when brought to the extreme) that requires people to strap bombs to themselves and become martyrs. Together violence is inevitable, but lately I've been really sick and tired of Muslim minorities claiming their right to establish a separate Islamic Republic. Uighurs today, Islamic fighters bombing a Catholic church in the Philippines yesterday, suppression of dissent in Iran, etc. But when it comes to which side I would choose, China or Islamic separatists, I have to grind my teeth and go with China. Say what you will about China, at least they don't believe anybody who doesn't follow their ideology is a moron who needs to be converted. Whenever there is a Muslim minority, there is always a separation debate (Serbia and Kosovo, The Philippines, The Punjab, Kashmir, Thailand, Malaysia, etc.).
      Maybe it's just me, but stone-age beliefs belong exactly there: in the stone age, not in our age of science and evidence. Religion holds us back, it doesn't push us foreword. Name me one religiously-run country that actually did something to better all humanity.
      And by the way, it was a joke. Every time someone says something negative about religion, people whip out the politically correct crap (or burn down your embassy if you draw a cartoon). Christian Catholics molest children, and Islamofascistm incites violence. Prove me wrong or sue me.

    • Not at all, I'm no fan of Communism, wherever it springs it's head. What you have is an ideology that requires suppression of dissent, and a religious ideology (when brought to the extreme) that requires people to strap bombs to themselves and become martyrs. Together violence is inevitable, but lately I've been really sick and tired of Muslim minorities claiming their right to establish a separate Islamic Republic.
      Uighurs today, Islamic fighters bombing a Catholic church in the Philippines yesterday, suppression of dissent in Iran, etc. But when it comes to which side I would choose, China or Islamic separatists, I have to grind my teeth and go with China. Say what you will about China, at least they don't believe anybody who doesn't follow their ideology is a moron who needs to be converted. Whenever there is a Muslim minority, there is always a separation debate (Serbia and Kosovo, The Philippines, The Punjab, Kashmir, Thailand, Malaysia, etc.).
      Maybe it's just me, but stone-age beliefs belong exactly there: in the stone age, not in our age of science and evidence. Religion holds us back, it doesn't push us foreword. Name me one religiously-run country that actually did something to better all humanity.
      And by the way, it was a joke. Every time someone says something negative about religion, people whip out the politically correct crap (or burn down your embassy if you draw a cartoon). Christian Catholic priests molest children, and Islamofascism incites violence. Prove me wrong or sue me.

      • I'm sorry, but your position is completely ridiculous. You are delegitimating a movement simply because it is a Muslim one. I'm no expert on internal Chinese politics, but there are many other issues at play here – not least that this is an ethnic divide as well, and that the Chinese government is notoriously disciminatory to minority ethnic groups.

        You don't know the specifics here, nor why these people are protesting beyond that you think they want a "separate Islamic Republic." But that stance precludes any number of understandable and legitimate reasons for grieving their treatment, no?

        • "…not least that this is an ethnic divide as well, and that the Chinese government is notoriously disciminatory to minority ethnic groups. "

          The Uighurs are complaining that more Han are moving into Xinjiang Province, and that they are taking jobs away from them. If you agree with the Uighurs, then you must be one of those people who complain that "all these immigrants moving into Canada are taking Canadian jobs." Should Québec bar anyone from moving into their province if they don't speak French?
          They are most angry about the fact that nobody under 18 is allowed to receive religious instruction, which I find a great idea. People should be brought up secular, and then when they turn adults they can choose for themselves what religion (or lack thereof) they want to follow. To fight this, they want a separate Theocratic Islamic State.

          "You don't know the specifics here, nor why these people are protesting beyond that you think they want a "separate Islamic Republic."

          Yes, they do want one:

          http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/

          I believe China would be better off as a Democratic Federation, but it isn't. When a choice has to be made on whether to support a secular Communist or a theocratic Muslim/Christian/Jew, in my mind, you have to choose the lesser of two evils.

        • "…not least that this is an ethnic divide as well, and that the Chinese government is notoriously disciminatory to minority ethnic groups. "

          The Uighurs are complaining that more Han are moving into Xinjiang Province, and that they are taking jobs away from them. If you agree with the Uighurs, then you must be one of those people who complain that "all these immigrants moving into Canada are taking Canadian jobs." Should Québec bar anyone from moving into their province if they don't speak French?

          They are most angry about the fact that nobody under 18 is allowed to receive religious instruction, which I find a great idea. People should be brought up secular, and then when they turn adults they can choose for themselves what religion (or lack thereof) they want to follow. To fight this, they want a separate Theocratic Islamic State.

          "You don't know the specifics here, nor why these people are protesting beyond that you think they want a "separate Islamic Republic."

          Yes, they do want one:

          <a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/…” target=”_blank”>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/

          I believe China would be better off as a Democratic Federation, but it isn't. When a choice has to be made on whether to support a secular Communist or a theocratic Muslim/Christian/Jew, in my mind, you have to choose the lesser of two evils.

          • Honestly, all I can say is that next time I protest the government about something secular (say, for example, a perceived lack of response to some murders,) I'm going to count my lucky stars that I'm a Canadian WASP. I sometimes forget that if the world was a different place, some foreign jerk would write me off as just like that Canadian nutjob Charles McVety – you know, all irrational and hellbent on living by Leviticus.

            Moreover, I feel comfortable resting my case on two simple observations:
            1)Your jokes, like all of the very best, are ones that have to be explained as such.
            2)"Islamofascism."

          • "Your jokes, like all of the very best, are ones that have to be explained as such."

            Couldn't care less.

            "Islamofascism" and Fascism have a lot in common [From Paul Berman and Christopher Hitchens]:

            rage against historical humiliation; inspiration from what is believed to be an earlier golden age (one or more of the first few Caliphates in the case of Islamism); a desire to restore the perceived glory of this age — or "a fanatical determination to get on top of history after being underfoot for so many generations" — with an all-encompassing (totalitarian) social, political, economic system; belief that malicious, predatory alien forces are conspiring against and within the nation/community, and that violence is necessary to defeat and expel these forces; exaltation of death and destruction along with a contempt for "art and literature as symptoms of degeneracy and decadence", and strong commitment to sexual repression and subordination of women; offensive military, (or at least armed) campaign to reestablish the power and allegedly rightful international domination of the nation/community.

  3. Al Quada terrorists believed that killing western civilians will be rewarded 72 virgins in the heaven!

    Few Uighur such as zen dahodi actually believed that to gain human rights and religious freedom is to kill innocent Han Chinese!!!

    Those cowards and religious maniac should be punished to the severest!!!

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