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Are you satisfied with the government’s decision to stand by Bev Oda?


 

 
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Are you satisfied with the government’s decision to stand by Bev Oda?

  1. You left out my choice:

    What's the point of having an elected minister if unelected partisans in the PMO can instruct them on how to reverse their decisions and then lie to cover up?

    • How about: Fire everyone in the PMO and strew salt over the site.

    • What definitive proof do you have that the PMO instructed her to change a decision. I suspect you are just speculating

    • What proof do you have that the PMO was involved? Speculation anyone? Is this just more unsubstantiated spinning?

    • Has anyone considered why Minister Oda was compelled to change her position?

      • We thought Harper would have the guts to explain that – NOT!

  2. I hope people are not blinded by the governing party rhetoric about Oda having the right to over rule the recommendation. The question really is the way in which she doctored documents and misled the house and the people. The end does not justify the means, Mr. Harper!!!!

  3. I'm very happy that some church orginazation didn't get the taxpayer funds more then her adding Not to the document. Good for her.

  4. It's not about the decision though. It's about lying about the process that led to the decision, lying about who made the decision, and lying about lying about all of that.

    As Andrew Coyne put it in this very magazine:

    "She misrepresented what CIDA officials told her, to evade responsibility for what was plainly a political decision. She altered a document, or caused it to be altered, so as to support that lie, that is by falsifying the intent of the signatories (though to what end is unclear: how it could be imagined a handwritten addition to a typescript document would fool anybody?). And she dissembled about her role in that, too: a lie about a lie about a lie."

    • Yes LdKitchenersOwn you quote Andrew Coyne very well. My question to Andrew is how is it that Bev Oda could be accused of "falsifying the intent of the signatories" of the document, when she is in fact one of the signatories of the document. Obviously, she had the right to alter the document as a signatory. The only thing she failed to do was initial her alteration to show she was the one that made it.

      • In other words she falsified the document because the other people who signed it did not consent to the NOT being added.

        The n she lied to Parliament about it. It's the lies that make her deserve to be fired. Didn't anyone ever teach you not to lie?

        • In the PMO, honesty is dangerous.

      • Well, first of all the Minister WASN'T the one who made the alteration, at least according to her current story. Putting that aside though, isn't that last sentence CRUCIAL??? If one does NOTHING WHATSOEVER to indicate that the addition was placed there by the order of the Minister, or when it was placed there, or that it was definitively NOT there when the other two people signed the document, then the addition falsifies the intent of the other two signatories. Although sloppily done, for all intents and purposes the document has been made to look as though all three people agreed with the "not", when we know for a fact that only one of the three signatories did. Saying that "the only thing she failed to do was initial her alteration to show she was the one that made it" is to say "the only thing that she failed to do is the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF ADDING AN ALTERATION TO AN ALREADY SIGNED DOCUMENT". It's like saying that the only thing you employer did wrong on your paycheque was not signing it (thus making it impossible for you to cash). Not indicating by whom, and more importantly when that addition was made is precisely where the line is drawn between an addition that is acceptable, and an addition which falsifies the intent of the other two signatories.

        What's more, Oda herself has stated that the word "not" wasn't even there when SHE signed the document. She ordered someone to add it LATER ON…. AFTER she had signed it (at least according to her story now…. I'm increasingly convinced SOMEONE ELSE order the change, though we'll likely never know who). So, for a while, according to the Minister's own account, that document had all 3 signatures on it, and did not include that word "not". I have yet to hear a plausible explanation of why exactly this whole process went down that way, but I'm pretty certain that the reason the addition is not dated is because whoever wrote it it didn't want to include a date notation explicitly showing that it had been added AFTER the document was signed by ALL THREE SIGNATORIES.

  5. it seem that every time Harper are up in polls the opposition try to find a way to attack one of his minister to put him down and every time we believe their lies. The minister , her respond was clear. She is a good minister , She did other jobs before and she did them very well.. We should stand up for her and let the Liberals and NDP stay with their lies. She don't answers their question about Kairos because she dealing with a bunches of RATS ready to eat her alive.

    • Really?

    • I think I'd rephrase your observation somewhat: "it seem that every time Harper is up in polls he finds a way to screw up some minor issue that blows up in his face and takes away all his credibility". If he would just take action on the initial error instead of covering it up or defending the indefensible, he might actually reach winnable poll numbers.

    • What silliness!

  6. I remember watching Bill Clinton try to dissemble his way out of the Lewinsky mess. The same gag reflex went off when Stephen Harper and John Baird denied the issue of Bev Oda's lies to the House during Wednesday's Question Period. Harper has already distorted what is right in government beyond our eyes' power of correction, and now our stomachs can no longer put up with him, either.

  7. Let's try and make this simple. A Minister takes an Oath to TRULY carry out their duties. Bev Oda has lied in the House first saying she didn't add the word 'not' to the document in question. Then, months later, she admits that it was in fact her who wrote 'not'. Bev Oda has obviously been untruthful in the House and therefore should be reprimanded. She needs to offer up her resignation or Harper should fire her.

  8. She and the Government had the right to make that decision but I must agree with the writer above:

    "As Andrew Coyne put it::

    "She misrepresented what CIDA officials told her, to evade responsibility for what was plainly a political decision. She altered a document, or caused it to be altered, so as to support that lie, that is by falsifying the intent of the signatories (though to what end is unclear: how it could be imagined a handwritten addition to a typescript document would fool anybody?). And she dissembled about her role in that, too: a lie about a lie about a lie."

  9. The game goes on….and on.
    Haven't we seen enough of Stephen Harper and how the PMO office works to know that he / they had a hand in altering the document?
    Will someone step forward with the TRUTH as to who and when the "NOT" was inserted in the document?
    Too much to expect from the CONservatives ……

  10. Since our PM has previously shown no hesitation to throw ministers under the bus, one has to suspect that responsibility for the fraud comes from above

  11. She should get a medal, she saved the tax payers 7 million dollars. How soon the loony lefties forget the promises by Chretien to scrap the GST and the free trade agreement, I didn't hear them screaming for him to resign. Anyway all politions lie all the time so what else is new.

    • Anyway all politicians lie all the time so what else is new.

      I'm almost certain the Tories used to tell us that THEY were going to be new. It's hilarious to me how fast "We'll be different" morphed into "It's OK, the Liberals used to do stuff like this all the time too".

    • I suppose the "the Liberals did it!" cry will go on ad infinitum.

      Seems to me the protestations of the current gov't to get elected count for naught in the minds of the CRAP diehards. They're doing government differently all right – setting records for "Harpocrisy" and getting Canadians to the poor-house in record time!

    • by the way, do not forgot that it's the conservatives, that first implemented the g.s.t., and also, the ones to implement free trade,
      check your history before before making accusations!!!
      absolutely, for the 7 millions$ , it's time they stop the crazy spending,

    • Tehn why not have the courage to reverse the decision, instead of making forgeries to pretend the decisions was the opposite?

    • And what should Mr. Harper get for giving away a billion dollars to Canadian competitors?

  12. I believe their is more to it then just the Minister Oda being involved. If you look hard enough you will see tracks leading from the PM'S office to this document. Stephen Harper has spoken so everyone else must say "yes sir what ever you say".

  13. Oda Odor;

    As a Realtor, regarding the “not” insertion on the Government Document supposedly altered by Bev Oda, in a Real Estate Transaction or any legal agreement, the document would be null and void, if the change was not accompanied with an initial from whoever made the change!!! You would think that all Politicians, would know this simple legal fact.

    • But YOU have training, education, and experience!
      Surely, to expect ANY politician to have the education, "both business and moral"… to act appropriately… is asking a bit much from our elected betters, is it not?

      Are not our rulers above mere laws and customs?
      Have they not been elevated by some invisible hand or diety to rule over us for our own good?

      The pre-requisites of being a politician are: Having enough money to run for office. Having a "job or position" that lets them take the time off to do so. Having a desire to tell your fellow (lesser) human beings what to do. Being lucky enough to attract the attention of one of the big political machines. Being lucky enough to get elected.

      Her original intents and purposes may have been pure and noble.
      The error may have been a slight one. (Due to ignorance or hubris?)
      She does have the authority to disallow grants. We gave her this power.
      She clearly did not either: a) Know the proper way to do it, OR: b) Employ the proper way…..

      But the problem now, is the whining, and obfuscation, and denial, and…..
      The problem now, is her refusal to accept responsibility, or acknowledge error, and to correct things…..
      The problem now, is like Watergate.
      And each day that "they" (and I mean ALL parties and politicians) refuse to follow the correct procedure to fix this oversight, makes things worse and worse for us all.

      How to fix it?
      She withdraws the erroneous documents she submitted, and apologizes profusely for them.
      The applicants are invited to re-submit, perhaps with additional information, justifications, explanations, etc…
      The application is "red foldered" and fast-tracked, VIP, ASAP.
      The bureaucracy re-examines the application, properly.
      The bureaucracy accepts or refuses the new application.
      The bureaucracy states the reasons for the decision reached.
      This then goes to the minister.
      The minister then accepts or refuses, on her Ministerial Letterhead, stating WHY.
      The issue is then handled accordingly.

      Sadly, none of our ruling parties have asked for this "result" clearly. None seem to know the procedure!
      FIRE THEM ALL!

  14. I always find it interesting that so many leap to excuse any bull that the Liberals and others do but expect something entirely different from the Conservatives when they are in power. I hope they have all learned from this error and will make changes in how they do things but I'm not sure that this is a firing offence considering all the garbage that we have had to put up with in the past.
    I think that there are many things that the Harper gov't has done right and others(US) have gotten very wrong and at the moment I don't see a viable option to replace this gov't. Iggy and Layton are disasters in comparison. I for one don't want the Block to have the control. They already extort millions from the rest of us.

  15. it is a forgery, she should be fired.

  16. Ms Oda should either resign or be turfed. It is unacceptable to alter documents in any way shape or from and is certainly not ok to then lie, in the House of Commons when asked the question
    Were that you or I, caught in this situation in our jobs there would have been no hesitation in turfing our collective asses out the door…
    Why, then, does is this behaviour just fine for the people "supposedly" ruining our country, er ah, I ment "RUNNING" :_)

    The major part of "all these sorts of issues" is to waste the Commons Time to the point where there is no time left for debate on the real issues facing the Government and the people of Canada. This way either the status quo remains OR the decisions are left to our beloved dictator, er ah, I mean El Presidente, er ah, I mean, Prime Minister and his henchman er ah, I mean Cronies, er ah, I mean Cabinet to put forth their rulings with no debate and no opposition. It is the new way of governing in our great democratic dictatorship, it is The New World Order in its infancy…

  17. I would question why this paper came up in the commons in the first place. This was an internal recommendation that the minister did not accept. Those groups not getting support should learn to live with it!

    • Notice how none of the opposition parties are criticising the denile of funding just the particulars by which the funding was denied. Boo hoo Harper is a bully… So what? His government takes action and gets results. I don't hear any alternatives coming from the opposition just alot of whining and empty rhetoric.

  18. Re the Oda affair, one notes the propensity of 'scandal' to break out in perfect coincidence with the positive poll position of the governing party in this minority government Could it have anything to do with a looming election? One smells another non-issue, hyped by those sensitive souls who yearn for the kinder/gentler politics of Messrs Martin and Chretien. There is a message one has for all the Harper Haters: Get a Life!

    • Am I missing something to your argument?

      Are you saying that you think the opposition is pounding on this because they want to force an election because the Tories are doing well in the polls? I mean, I don't entirely disagree that the opposition seems to be getting closer to trying to force an election, but I don't think they're doing so because the Tories are polling well!

  19. Have you ever knew a politician who did'nt lie ?

    • Have you ever known one who lied to Parliament?

    • Of course not, but most have the decency to express regret when they're caught.

  20. Continued hilarity from the media and leftists, keep it up! LOL!

  21. fraud is a criminal offence.
    I will be interested in the court docket number.

  22. hilarious commentary! keep it coming!

  23. Amazing how Harper goes merrily along creating record deficits 'hangs his cronies out to dry..Never answers a question =amaster in the frustrating Art of spin//we should be ashamed to allow this to go on .She has to be fired.

  24. what she did wasnt just wrong… it was illegal
    and she and Harper both knew it…

    when will she be formally charged for falsifying documents?…
    she doesn’t still have her security clearance does she?

    what a disgrace

  25. This isn't about a Liberal or Conservative. This is about the rule of law.
    When we lose that, next stop anarchy.

    Oda did not tell the truth in committee and Parliament and should be sanctioned.

  26. Until he has information on her no one else has, Harper will stand firmly by Oda. Just as happened to Helena Guergis, he wants to make sure he's caught Oda with her pants down.

    • Now that is a scary thought.

  27. Not until Harper says so. And that could be a long time coming.

  28. While the out of touch leftist media hypes a single notation in a document,

    Harper goes to 40% while the Liberals drop to all time lows:
    http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20110220/con

    Perhaps the media should leave their downtown Ottawa coctail party circuit, and enter the real world once and a while. Perhaps then they wouldn't fall all over themselves with non issue after non issue.

    • I always knew that about 40% of Canadians are stupid. This applies particularly to the Prairies where most of them are a bit retarded.

      • Yes Yuri, Canadians that vote Conservative are all stupid, because you know better right?

        I think that Canadians are probably quite tired of the games and are not concerned with this issue. There may be some credence to it, but ultimately, it doesn't do anything to help better this country. The Liberals need things like this just to stay relevant. What does that say about their party?

  29. egyptians,tunisians,etc. ,rebell to achieve democracy,when we have a semblance of it,we allow cabinet ministers and prime ninisters to mis-represent the truth,deny facts,harper really has advanced our country,very sad !!!!

  30. She lied. Boot her out.
    I can’t believe anyone commenting here would defend that. (unless of course they are paid Tory plants which I suspect most are on these comment boards)
    Lying to parliament and Canada is indefensible. And Harper defending that shows how little respect he has for the Canadian public.

  31. WHile I agree with her decision to save the taxpayers some money I do not agree with how she went about it.
    What I find hard to understand is why politicians, especially ministers bother to lie to us about what they have done when most of the time we find out anyway. Why not just say” I cancelled it because I have that power and if you don’t like it show your displeasure at the next election”? Much better for all concerned except possibly the media which would have to work harder to find some real news to report.

  32. So.. when the government screws up, your argument is that we should just let it go?

    You sure you want to go there?

    I agree that it's shameful, but I attach the shame to the government because it continues to provide opportunities to the opposition to do exactly this.

  33. When a governments primary concern is staying in power it no longer differentiates between what is doing for us or to us, or cares. If it worked as hard at being fair as it does to protect it's own self interest, we would have a parliament we could respect and be proud of. Politicians do not want their children to follow in their footsteps because in their heart of hearts they want them to be decent and honest people. I hope history white washes them as soon as possible and we can look back with distaste at the "Age of Iggy" (see attack ads.)

  34. She did not sanction this-so what's the b ig deal? the opositions haven't agreed or "not" agreed—-are just bickering! Kairos wants funding–& so do so many other interest groups-do U want ur tax dollars going 2 all??

  35. I sat and watched all of this discussion in Question Period on television. Everytime the Speaker of the House stood to call an Honourable Member to his/her feet, very few could be called “Honourable” that day. One after the other, the opposition stood, like mad animals, attacking their prey almost until there was no life left in it. There ought to be law…..

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