Do you agree with Pope Francis that the Catholic Church must shake its thinking on abortion and homosexuality? - Macleans.ca
 

Do you agree with Pope Francis that the Catholic Church must shake its thinking on abortion and homosexuality?


 


 
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Do you agree with Pope Francis that the Catholic Church must shake its thinking on abortion and homosexuality?

  1. …and while we’re at it, let’s stop public (state) funding of ALL religious education

    • that’s a religious view David

    • Eliminate tax-paid separate schools…one public system for all

      Tax the churches.

      • I agree with the one public school bit – but why tax the churches? I mean, beyond your hatred of anything religious. I’d like to know if you have more than spite in mind.

        • the “church” has more money than most small countries. they claim to be charities yet do nothing to help the sick, hungry or uneducated, which is supposedly their basis for being. the catholic church alone could end hunger and educate every child under 16 if they just opened their coffers.

          • Well Judyt00, seeing as the Catholic church is the worlds largest provider of food, medical aid and education, you must be absolutely delighted with them now.

            Or did you mean you want them to flood the market with priceless antiques and ancient building/living museums that comprise the Western worlds artistic heritage (that incidentally they been preserving for centuries, for free) and dump the money into UN coffers so the can pass it off to local autocrats?

            Now those greedy protestant churches on the other hand, they pay their Pastors almost as much on average as a Tim Horton’s shift manager, and greedily blow almost half the money they receive on trifles like The Canadian Foodgrains Bank or World Vision.

          • You just keep believing that about the catholic church, then look at their bank balances. Tying food aid to conversion has been, and still is, a major tactic of all churches. They all still excuse their wealth by saying the poor will always be among us so why change things, while refuges from wars, (supported by church funds, by the way,) die from hunger and disease

          • “Tying food aid to conversion has been, and still is, a major tactic of all churches.”
            Sorry Judy, but I call BS on that one. I can guarantee you it isn’t true of the Anglican church. Give me some current evidence that this is happening, please.

          • Utter rubbish. Wherever do you get this nonsense from?

            And there are lots of paintings and buildings in the western world that have nothing to do with your ‘religion’….so don’t get silly.

          • I can’t speak specifically to the RC church, but Emily is talking ALL churches. Most churches are major contributors to the community with their outreach programs – the congregation I’m part of contributes to a soup kitchen, various shelters, programs for troubled youths, etc. Many members are also quite supportive of other non-church charities.
            If the government took away the charitable status of our church, fewer dollars would go to charitable works. This is because most of our overhead is fixed costs, and the members of the congregation only have so much money to give. Either the church’s charitable programs woud get scaled back, or fewer funds would go to non-church charities (or maybe both, depending on the level of taxation). Because we would still ensure our church kept going.
            Some parishes, with smaller attendance, would likely have to close up, as they would simply not be able to meet their financial needs.
            Emily is very anti-church. But I doubt she (or many others who are athiests, agnostics or otherwise not very involved in their churches) are aware of the incredible amount of good works done quietly by churches throughout the world. All they see are the things that grab headlines – which are almost entirely the negative things.

          • If their charitable status was removed, the churches would simply do what most rich people do at tax time,use those charitable donations as a tax write off. OH wait, they already do! Between depreciation on buildings and fixtures, and the charitable donations, most church costs are returned/paid for by the tax man.

          • Again, I call BS. Go read up on your tax laws. Not going to waste my time explaining them to you, as you’re just looking for ways to slag religious organizations, with little regard for truth.

          • Keith, you will likely find that in the Western world, religion is losing it’s base as the congregations age. A couple of generations from now, there will be a lot of “former” churches being used for other community services as in housing!

          • That might be true, however, if you do some research you will find that many refugees are being sponsored by religious organizations who house and feed them and provide their transportation and even medication when they cannot work. This is especially true for the refugees that arrive in Canada with illnesses such as tuberculosis. People might be concerned about the reach of religion but there would a big whole left without their volunteerism and resources in terms of providing for the poor, not only in caring for new Canadians but also for the disadvantaged at food banks and school breakfast programs. Do people not realize that the Salvation Army is itself a religious organization?

          • Money, artworks and real estate. That’s why so many churches are being Trojan Horsed by the alternative lifestyle types.

            If the church builders are driven out; the last “man” standing gets the loot.

            Prime example just a week or so ago in Windsor where the courts tossed out a congregation not happy with orders from the Anglican Bishops to change the marriage ceremony checklist.

            The work of church congregations in terms of the sick and hungry has definitely declined in recent years but not because of a lack of concern by church people.

            No government social worker with a $200,000 a year sunshine list salary will stand for being elbowed aside by churches and families.

        • The “church” has been allowed to buy choice properties that are not taxed. They are nothing more than a “service Club” and why should non – adherents to any faith have to make up for the loss in property taxes? As soon as I was old enough to think for myself, I couldn’t understand how people could believe these tales from centuries ago and that goes for the clergy as well. One can go through school including post secondary and still believe this stuff? I suspect the profession has been chosen as an easy way through life with no heavy lifting!

          • Uh huh. As one whose father became an Anglican priest in his later life, I can tell you there is plenty of “heavy lifting”. Grief / marriage counsellor; mediator; support for the hungry, homeless and marginalized; and on and on. But hey – don’t let the truth get in the way of your bigotry.

    • And allow those who wish to (or can afford to, these days) to educate their own children without paying the school taxes they receive no benefit from.

      • No. One public system for all.

        • when that happens, all my grandkids will be homeschooled. they are in catholic school because the bullying in public schools is just out of hand

          • Home schooling isn’t an option for most people, so we need a public system everyone can go to….it would make more sense to get rid of the bullying than to put them in a separate religious system.

          • one would think so with all the bullying in the press these days. however, most bullying is against white kids by other groups

          • Doesn’t matter what colour is involved.

          • Emily, yesterday you described to me the system you
            use when you say “we” and I now know exactly what you’re talking about.

            But others don’t know that it has to do with you and your fellow gang of atheists.

            So Emily when you say “we” as you do here, you’re referring to yourself and the other “billion plus” dumb bell Athiests you hang around with. N’est ce pas?

            Emily when you hide your gang of atheists and come on here bashing religious schools I think you’re trying to pull a fast one . A Liberal Party fast one .

          • here in Calgary Sudanese muslim gangs seem to run some public schools. I had a 6 year old grandchild learn this first hand when the teacher sided with the older kid because ‘he is white and should know better’. oh, and by the way, my grand kids are atheist in Catholic schools. all us atheists aren’t necessarily “dumb bell Athiests. and we know how to spell the words as well!

          • Well look here Judyt00t, whether or not you’re perfect in spelling
            it’s quite evident from your writing that your 300 pound atheist NDP kindergarten cheated the daylights out of you when it came to starting you out on the road to higher learning.

            a) Your sentence structure stinks. An imperfect speller like myself ( only 2 out of 3 atheists spelled correctly) is unable to determine from your second sentence WTF is going on. Who did what to whom. Is the older white kid the Sudanese gangster? Is the Sudanese gangster your 6 year old grandchild? Did the teacher truly side with the white kid as stated by you? For Pete sake gather your thoughts together and spit it out.

            b) You must belong to some lost tribe of punctuation. So for starters: you’re unable to begin sentences with a capital letter; you don’t know the difference between an apostrophe and a quotation mark; and if someone is ever able to determine the difference between what you say and what the other cluck says it’s imperative that you both open and close quotations according to grammatical convention.

            Nevertheless, forget about the punctuation, but if you can work on telling me exactly what happened vis a vis your grandson and a pack of Sudanese gangsters, I’ll likely be on your side. Meanwhile I’m going to run over to one of your other little ditties and tell you a couple of things about Robert Schuller that you probably don’t know. One of them you’ll like, the other you will not.

          • Robert Schuller is a lying thief who takes “donations” from the elderly in exchange for a promise of “heaven”. He should be locked up for the scum he is. There is no evidence your god has ever existed, just like all the other gods you deny. Why don’t you worship Odin or Zeus? There is just as much evidence for their existance, Actually, more, since they were here first!

          • Odin? Not me t00ts I’d rather become a smoked up illiterate Cultist and worship The Liberal Party of Canada, like you do.

          • I’m not illiterate, I usually answer on my tablet which simply does not do capitals very often and I have NEVER voted liberal in my life, not even when I was 19 and P.E. Trudeau was first running and all the girls thought he was dreamy. And I am not, nor ever would I be, your t00ts. Your sexism is showing, as is your religious bigotry. Demeaning others simply because they don’t believe in your “god” is petty and just demeans your religion.
            Oh, and I don’t smoke up either.
            you never said why you don’t worship those gods, though. Is it because your parents don’t? is that really a good reason to do something, because Mommy told you to?

          • t00ts, settle down, you’ve gone into a frenzy.

            Look I can get you a deal on an old massage parlour table with a sign on it that reads “Jack Layton Slept Here.” If you want to buy it for 15 bucks and worship it, you go to it, because I couldn’t care less.

            As to the fact of your illiterate state, your confused, error ridden output speaks for itself.

          • wow! yes, I’m female and that means when I defend myself from a misogynestic jerk, I must be in a frenzy! I am definitely better educated than you will ever be, simply because your bigotry does not allow you to accept anything but what you want to kear

          • Surely you mean “misogynistic.”

          • “…everyone can go to…” but do not have to if they so choose.

          • Education is mandatory in Canada.

          • So how did you slip through the crack?

          • Home schooling fulfills the mandatory education requirement.

          • I was replying to Paul Allen

          • The public education system is borderline child abuse.

            It hasn’t changed one whit since it’s blueprint was created by the Prussians in the 18th century. One size does not fit all, and why anyone thinks that classifying children’s learning abilities by something as arbitrary as age is a good idea is beyond me.

            Until there’s political willpower to change the basic underlying structure of the education system, I wouldn’t send my kids (if I had any) through something as mentally damaging as a public school.

          • No, the lack of education is outright child abuse. And while I’m not fond of our current system….it’s better than what existed in previous centuries. The problem is method.

            We now have the tech to completely change the system….and we are slowly moving towards that. The current system isn’t working anymore, and it’s much too expensive in any case.

            Underlying philosophies have to change though.

          • bullying is everywhere – it starts in the house -just think of the way the family talks to each other (unwittingly) but then it leaves the housse, goes to the schools, (dare I say “church”) and the streets. Think aboudit!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • Hahaha! You are bitching about religion but you have your grandkids in the Catholic school because you like their “morals”! Irony alert!! Does it occur to you that people who have strong faith are just people in search of happy, content lives, just like you? Perhaps they go about finding it differently but they aren’t “evil”.
            By the way Judy, you should quiz your grand kids, I grew up Catholic…you wouldn’t BELIEVE the crap those Christians are preaching…something about a guy named Jesus that you claim never existed…..

          • no, its because there are no muslims screaming discrimination every time they aren’t allowed to pick on smaller, younger kids

          • I live in Calgary. There are plenty of private schools should your grandchildren require an education in a safe place where they aren’t being bullied. Do you realize that the Catholic school is almost evangelical and your grandkids are actually attending masses?

          • my grandkids are quite aware that the mass is both optional and merely a ritual. as for private schools, most are religious and all are far too expensive for the average family

          • Judy, my children attended Catholic school in Calgary. There are many cheap very good charter schools. Cut the crap. Your whole diatribe against Christianity is a load of BS. For the most part, the average “Christian” is a decent, benign individual who just wants to lead a happy, productive life.

        • We must be able to make everyone see things our way.

          • Really? School is meant to encourage the opposite.

  2. I’m not sure that the Pope said we must shake our thinking on abortion & homosexuality. Would like to see the quote(s) purporting that he did.

  3. now if the dork would just tell people their gods are imaginary

    • Some day you will encounter the God of Issac, Jacob, and Esau…

      • And the Easter Bunny.

        • It’s interesting that you’ve turned against the Easter Bunny. It must have to do with how you were nurtured.

          My dad used to dress up like the Easter Bunny and hide chocolates all over the house.

          Meanwhile over at your place your mother would dress up like Nikita Kruschev and hide stained photos of Leon Trotsky everywhere.

          It’s pretty easy to see how you got so screwed up Emily

      • Judy…this is also the God of creation who loves you enough to send Jesus Christ to die a cruel death for your sins and mine. And He still loves you. :)

        • there is no god, Jesus was a fiction thought up by Saul/Paul who was nothing more than a lying thief, like all those televangelists today. The Romans kept records of who they executed, your Jesus was not among the victims recorded as crucified.
          Oh, and they didn’t hammer nails into hands and feet either. They dislocated shoulders and often knees, tied them to the crosses and stakes at the elbows and ankles and let the convicted drown in their own body fluids. ( yeah, they used to teach that in history class before the PC took over education)

          • Judyt00…you must do more historical research. One thing that generally is not disputed by historians is that a man called Jesus did live during those times. Josephus, a noted historian of that day gives ample evidence of His existence. You might also research other scholars of the day who attest to Pilate dealing with Jesus and having Him crucified.
            There is much evidence…but one has to want to find answers.

          • its not evidence when it only exists in books by religious idiots.

          • Judy…I assume you really do not want to investigate. Josephus was a secular historian…as were many others that attested to the life of Jesus. I suspect that somewhere along your life path you have been really turned off by some aspects of Christianity and/or Christians. Remember, we are all human, and all subject to error and wrong doing.

          • No! Do not use the standard, “you are atheist because you hate god ” garbage! I am atheist because I found too many inconstancies, lies and down right fairy tales in the bible and quran. Most ‘christians’ have never even read the book they claim to follow. Josephus, if he even existed, was not a historian, he wrote what he wanted people to read and was not alive when Jesus supposedly walked, just like Saul/Paul. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO WRITING OF JESUS BEFORE SAUL/PAUL MADE HIM UP!

          • Uh… wrong.There is plenty of writing. Paul did not write the gospels, or quite a few of the other books of the New Testament. Aside from the ones we have, many others were lost or deliberately destroyed as heresy. But we know of them because of other historical references.
            Not all Christians take the Bible as the literal truth. We know that they were written often long after the supposed events; that they are the writings of people trying to make sense of God and His intent; and that both the humans who first wrote them and those who copied them by hand over and over, and who translated those copies, did not get everything right. The scriptures were written by humans and so – despite what some fundamentalists may think – are NOT perfect.
            The Bible grew out of faith – not the other way around. Try thinking of the bible and God this way: When your young children come to you with a question, and you know they can’t possibly understand the full answer, what do you tell them? Presumably, a story that encapsulates an essence of the truth that they WILL understand. If there is a God (and I’m willing to acknowledge that perhaps there isn’t) it seems likely that any such God is well beyond our ability to comprehend. Religion is one way to understand; science gives us another perspective.

          • Bram, if you have not encountered them already please add these two books to your reading list.

            a)The Golden Thread, written by Professor Bruce Meyer of Laurentian University, linking the Bible to all of Western Thought and Philosophy.

            b)The Case for a Creator by Chicago Tribune investigative journalist Lee Strobel. He discusses the topic with respected scientists in the fields of cosmology, cellular biology, astronomy, physics and human consciousness. Strobel started this story as an atheist and no longer holds that view.

            When I started to read the book, I held your view, “willing to acknowledge that perhaps there isn’t” – I now hold the view that “perhaps there is.”

            Both of these are well written and easy to read , both have important facts and thinking and run about 20 bucks each.

          • Thanks. I am on the “is” side most days, but unlike certain “athiest fundamentalists” who are posting here I’m open to acknowledging other possibilities.

          • Me too. It’s preposterous to be otherwise. For thousands of years the topic has tormented the minds of the most brilliant humans who have ever lived. It’s the great mystery so I know for sure an idiot like me isn’t going to nail it down. But everyone should be looking at it carefully.

            So, I’m reluctant to do this and I won’t do it again, but since we have a similar curiosity I think you should read a small book titled, “On God – An Uncommon Conversation” written by (don’t laugh) Norman Mailer.

            Mailer, in order to become a writer of books studying human nature became a scholar in all the great works of literature (those same works discussed by Bruce Meyer). Mailer despised organized religion but was nevertheless a religious man. His proposition in these “conversations” is that God is an artist working on a large creation; it’s a theme that resonates through all of Western Literature. But Mailer adds a twist by believing that although God is powerful, he may not be all powerful, and may, like the human creations in his image, make mistakes.

            It’s a great topic, it brings you to the thinking of the world’s most powerful minds and anyone like Judyt00t who, even although she may be right, stops short after a 45 minute speech from some NDP kindergarten teacher is really cutting themselves short. In my opinion.

          • the ‘gospels were written by people more than 100 years after the stories started spreading. they are nothing but myths, just like the rest of the bible. religion brings ignorance, not understanding.

          • Judy, there are whole reams of academic, scholarly research into the Bible – both New Testament and Old. I’ve read some of them; i’ve discussed the subject at length with a number of people who have spent years studying the subject. You’re free to believe whatever you want – but your beliefs are based on a misperception of what the research says. I would rank you on par with the fundamentalists who think the Bible is the literal, unalterable and completely factual word of God. An “athiest fundamentalist.”
            You should really try learning something about the subject before spouting off to those who have already done so.

          • any research done by the church about the bible is suspect. the facts are that the gospels were not written by the people they are accredited to and they were written long after the fact by people who were just copying tales handed down through gossip. as for the rest of the bible, so much has been proved false, it should be discarded as myth

          • Some of the stuff I have read was written by non-Christians. As for the rest, reread my other posts. Esp. the bit about the Bible coming from faith, not the other way around. You are approaching it arse-backward.
            Sure there are fundamentalists who think the Bible is the literal Word of God; most Christians are well aware that this is not so and that the Bible tells the story of people seeking.
            Remember also that what you say about the bible is true also of all our secular histories – almost all written by people who were not there, or who – if they were – have only limited first-hand knowledge to draw upon. Written history is an attempt to make sense of what has happened to humans and the world they live in; how much of it is accurate is always open for debate.

          • Good, so you use faith next time you get sick, really sick, instead of going to the doctor! Faith is nothing more than wishful thinking. Much like Santa Clause and the Easter bunny. Fact: there is no evidence Jesus actually existed. Fact: there is no more evidence for YOUR god than any of the other myriad gods that have existed through time. Fact: there IS actual written accounts of most of what we know as history,writing that is backed up by other sources, like fossils and archeology AND NOT IN A BOOK BY BRONZE AGED GOAT HERDERS. Your god is nothing more than an empty threat to keep people in line by the leaders of society at the time it was invented.. The sooner people like you, who are trying to force your “religion” onto the rest of the planet, accept facts, the better the planet will be.
            Grow up, stop believing in monsters in the closet. If you really think people need threats of punishment to be good, decent human beings, you seriously need to be institutionalized because YOU are the monster.

          • Uh huh.

            Just as with Emily, you have a real hate on for anyone who is not an athiest. You make broad, sweeping assumptions about people of faith (and I’m not just talking Christians here), when we cover quite a range of viewpoints (there are some people under the “Christian” umbrella who frankly embarrass the crap out of me). Not sure what your problem is, but when you say things like “you seriously need to be institutionalized because YOU are the monster” simply because someone thinks differently than you do, I would argue that you are the one “trying to force your “[beliefs]” onto the rest of the planet” – not me.
            I’m not asking you to believe; I’m merely saying you present an incredibly biased and false picture of religion. A person CAN make a good argument for there not being a God without spewing hatred, half-truths and lies. You, though, are not that person.
            And BTW – for most Christians, there is no dichotomy between faith and science. If there is a God who created everything, well then that would include science – would it not?
            As for history: I definitely take the Old Testament with more than a few grains of salt, as far as factual accuracy goes. That doesn’t mean there aren’t lessons to be learned from it. The same goes, for me, to a lesser extent, with the New Testament. The key to it all, though, is “Love thy neighbour as thyself.” The rest is just dressing. Anyone who tries their best to follow that teaching, whether Christian or not, will be a better person.
            Sure, some fail – no one is perfect – and yes, some charlatans throughout history have used religion for self-aggrandizement &/or to subjugate others.That’s a human failure. No matter how you slice and dice the population – by religion, race, sex, age – you will have a mix of the good and the bad; the loving and the judgmental. As you have proven so capably here, there are plenty of judgmental types among the athiests.
            In closing, given your sweeping, absurdly incorrect assertions about religion may I suggest to you that it is better to be silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and be proven one.

          • you know, its amusing the way religious folk think they can pick and choose what they want to believe, yet demand that atheists believe what YOU want us to. Actually, No, its ridiculously evil and bigoted of you to say you can believe what you want but we can’t. and faith IS just wishful thinking on your part. its funny how your god believe exactly what you want him to. that love thy neighbour thingy was around long before your religion took it over and claimed it was only theirs. its part of logic and common sense.

          • “ridiculously evil”?? Keith Bram is ridiculously evil? Come on?

          • I’m starting to think Judy is Emily in disguise.

          • One might wonder, however, I was on a thread where the two of them “got into it” over Alberta. judy100 it seems lives in Calgary and used to live in Ontario. Emily did her usual, ‘Alberta is evil’ and judy took Emily’s head off quite nicely.
            No, I think we can and do have more than one quite unbalanced sole on here (not including myself). Carry-on though alter-ego, I haven’t heard a really good snark from you in a while;)

          • Or as Emily1 / Judy2 might call me, given my defence of religion: “altar” ego ;-)

          • Hahaha! Yes.

          • Other way ’round Judy – I’m saying believe whatever you want and give others the same freedom. It is you who is on here spreading hatred toward the religious.

            Most atheists tend to be live & let live types. Occasionally, there are the ex-religious ones who carry on like a reformed smoker – not only must they declare their “freedom” but they disparage anyone who hasn’t switched.

            Go back and read your posts and mine; you’ll find that while I may have attacked your personal, anti-Christian viewpoint, I did not attack atheism generally. Whereas you seem to have a major hate on for religion. Definitely issues there; you should talk to a professional.

          • Whoa Judy…who said anything about you and atheism?? I am not trying to hit sore spots with you…just trying to understand why you believe what you do. Please do not feel offended…

          • I have the right to feel offended, especially since you pretty much told me that I automatically hate religious people while at the same time, attempt to change facts to support your myths, insisting that I have to follow them because you have faith.. I don’t hate you, you just piss me off with your smug stupidity

          • No Judy…there was nothing about hatred, nothing about insisting you have to follow anything that I may have faith in…

            May the path you choose to follow provide you with peace and joy each day.

          • Judy, I am not a religious person by any stretch but while studying for my nursing degree I did take a course called the history of western religion…it was NOT a theology course but an actual history course. The course only dealt with individuals who could be documented to have existed historically. The man people referred to as “Jesus”, did in fact exist. The bible, however, was not written by these men they called the apostles. I try not to comment on others’ beliefs because those beliefs tend to give many who suffer comfort. Who are any of us to deny them that comfort? Is it really our business what others believe?

          • no, the person the church called jesus was an amalgam of about a dozen street magicians. and, it is our business what others believe when they are using those beliefs to force their opinions onto my body. never married, old men who see women as lesser beings have no business getting involved in birth control or abortion issues

          • That is not what the professor taught in the history of western religion but you have a right to believe whatever it is that you want to regarding Jesus. As for people “forcing opinions onto your body”, come now, you hardly seem like a shrinking violet. Don’t attend the services, you won’t have to listen to their opinions.

          • Josephus was a Roman Jew who had ‘visions’ just like Paul.

            There is no evidence whatever….just 2000 years of opportunist snakeoil salesmen.

          • At least none that you have chosen to investigate.

          • Yes Paul….other people read books too.

            There is no evidence whatever.

          • LOL we already know ‘christians’ existed….it’s Jesus who’s in question. There is no proof whatever of that.

            Lots of people claiming to be the ‘messiah’ had come along….Jews were fed up with them because it caused trouble with the authorities…..the Romans. So they did the denouncing of troublemakers themselves.

            ‘Christianity’ is a slave’s religion…heaven looks remarkably like Rome….only the ‘last shall be first’…..wahoo!

            So Paul…formerly Saul and Josephus, both Jewish, suddenly had ‘visions’…..embroidered this idea massively and then pushed it, making an effort to bring down Rome from within. Eventually they succeeded.

            But to confuse local power politics in old Rome with divinity is silly…..much like believing there actually is a Santa Claus when retailers just pushed the image because they wanted to make money.

            Atheists generally know more about religion than believers….because they’ve actually looked into it before rejecting it.

            You might want ‘answers to life’, but you can’t just make stuff up.

          • “Despite the fact he clearly despised Christianity as a “mischievous superstition”, Tacitus no less confirms once again the existence of Jesus and His crucifixion on the cross, it also states Pontius Pilate as the procurator who oversaw the crucifixion again giving non-Biblical proof of Jesus’ existence as recorded in the Bible.”

            This is taken from the link sent earlier. BTW…what evidence do you accept as proof that Alexander the Great existed? Or many other great historical figures who lived in early times. I guess you have to include Cornelius Tacitus also as a prankster for his historical writings about this man Jesus.

            And I would suggest that generalizing about the scrutiny of Christianity by atheists before rejecting it is no more valid than me suggesting that Christians know more about views of an atheist before deciding against that point of view. Most/many of either persuasion fail to examine what or why they believe enough to be able to give a reasonable defense of their faith.

            I will say that having a life-changing conversion

          • I would suggest you stop reading whacko ‘end-times’ fundie websites. You’re far too gullible.

          • Well let me just say that I trust your life is rewarding and full of meaning…God’s blessing go with you. :)

          • Fundies are always trying to force their beliefs on others….it doesn’t win you any converts.

          • Between you and Judy, I’d say the same applies to athiests…

          • “… you can’t just make stuff up.”
            Then why do you?

      • My mother used to tell me the Angels lived on top of those fluffy clouds and she believed that. She had no answer for cloudless days!

    • Seems “the dork” just did.

      • AWW, poor boy, Teddy, did someone dare tell you they don’t believe what you do? Did I tick you off and make you think for just a second? that’s why you are so mad, you know, I questioned your belief and made you think. Free thought is not allowed in your cult.

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    • Why don’t you send him your rate schedule?

  5. The CAtholic church is dying but the day they allow women to become priest it will live again.

    • You’re absolutely right. In a mere 30 years (1983 to 2013), the number of Catholics worldwide has gone from 730 million all the way down to 1.2 billion. 8-/

        • Were you ever a choir boy Emily?
          Certainly hearing you screech away would chase a few people out of the Church

      • yes, by denying people both education and birth control. large, uneducated families is how both christianity and islam are growing. having 15 kids and not teaching them to question is a great way to increase numbers

        • But some of us do question and still come to the conclusion (by faith, of course) that God is alive and well..and still loves you. Have yuou read Paul Little? Malcolm Muggeridge? And many others who have questioned, and searched…and found God to be very much aware and concerned for all of humanity.

          • Seriously? Have you ever read the bible and a science book. How f&&king dare you tell me what I should believe. How dare you insist your ‘god is nothing but your imagination. wake up and get a life. Are you so afraid to live that you have to have some monster telling you what to say or do? Try reading Dawkins. I don’t particularly like the guy, but you just may learn something.

          • OK Judy; you don’t believe. But why all the anger against those who do?

          • Wow! And I will never tell you what to believe…that is your choice, nor will I rail against you for what you believer to be truth. And yes, I have, and do read the bible, and science books, and writings of Dawkins, though I do not accept all of his premises/theories. And at the present, I am awake and enjoying life. Trust you are as well. :)

          • Judy, you do have the right to believe whatever you want but certainly you would agree that in turn, your fellow human beings also have that right.

          • As long as they keep it to themselves

          • Okay, but then that means you should do in kind. Keep YOUR beliefs to your self.

          • a) I don’t have any beliefs. That’s what ‘atheist’ means.

            b) Others may believe in gods, devils and pink unicorns if they wish….as long as they keep it to themselves.

            c) Everything was going swimmingly [relatively speaking] until Dubya….and then he and his religious nutz made a complete nuisance of themselves, and screwed everything up with their fundie rubbish. They pushed that fundie belief on everyone and went to 2 wars. The carnage was unreal. Ruined the economy as well. Scared the life out of everyone. Stopped scientific progress….

            d) Which was when atheists decided enough was enough, and hit back. That’s how you got ‘militant atheism’.

            e) So time to move along from some bronze-age goat-herders fairy tale….and into an age of science and learning.

          • Atheism is a belief.

          • No, it is not. It is the absence of belief.

          • Ha! “absence of belief?” Well you may not believe in a power greater than yourself however, you have no issue with telling all and sundry that you “do not” believe in this greater power and therefore your belief is really in the absence of the greater power.

          • Normally I never mention it…..however when it’s pushed on me on here….I push back.

            And try not to be silly….you can’t ‘believe’ in the absence of something. That would be millions, billions of things……. Maybe you’re one of those pink unicorn types after all?

          • No, I am practical. I get it. You don’t believe in a God…a greater power than yourself.

          • Do you believe in Zeus?

            I thought not.

            So that’s your religion eh?

          • I never said what I believed in. What I did say is that I don’t believe in peoples’ rights to crap on each others’ beliefs.

          • Oh I think it’s pretty obvious.

            You’re one of those anti-Zeus types.

            Go to church every week to proclaim your anti-Zeusness no doubt.

            No orange Zeus, no apple Zeus…..

            We can tell.

          • Only go to church for funerals and weddings but how like to make assumptions.

          • AHAHAHAHAHA…..again I forgot that Cons have no sense of humour!

          • I have a great sense of humor but only when someone ‘says’ something funny.

          • You say funny things all the time. LOL

          • You know very well Emily that we don’t like laughing at psychopaths or with them.

            Therefore it’s pretty easy to see why there’s not much frivolity around you.

          • So you believe unicorns don’t exist? Whether they actually do or not is beside the point; it is still your belief.

          • Actually it’s the absence of rational thought.. Twit talk.

          • Wow….John Marmalade didn’t last long.

            Well this will have to suffice as your whirl around the dance floor because I’m busy today.

          • Well you’re such a roughed up mouthy old hag, you’ve lost your allure.

            t00ts has that je ne sais quoi. She’s more intelligent than you, she’s better educated than you and on top of that she’s a maestro on the two string guitar.

          • not as long as they keep trying to force their beliefs on me. and definitely not when I am discriminated against because of it. a few years ago I was working for a temp agency and asked for christmas day off because the buses don’t run. when I was hired it was on the condition that I did not work christmas. 4 days before christmas, I was told to either work it or be fired since I am atheist and don’t celebrate. my 2, 4 hour shifts cost me $200 in cab fare. I only earned 160

          • Clueless employer….Believers are forbidden to celebrate Xmas…says so in the bible. LOL

          • Where exactly does it say that?

          • Jeremiah 10:2-4 KJV

          • Cute!

            Jeremiah is OT; it doesn’t say “Celebrate not the birth of your Lord.” Though it could be used as an argument against Christmas trees.

          • Yes, it’s the old testament…..so it’s pre-Jesus.

            However people were celebrating at that time of year for centuries prior to Jesus, partying and feasting and all that….the church just pilfered it as they did so much else. Solstice, Saturnalia….with decorated trees….that’s what Xmas is. An old pagan holiday.

          • It is why that time of year was chosen, and some of the traditions were “borrowed”, yes. But – despite the way some fundamentalists get on – the primary focus of Christians is the teachings of the NT and especially the four Gospels. It is a good thing Jesus came out against stoning, or you and I would long ago have suffered that fate ;-)

          • Pity he didn’t come out against stake burning.

          • Also, as long as you don’t try to force your beliefs on them.
            Where I work in healthcare, Christmas is one of the only two “superstats” meaning I get paid double time so us non-believes make big-money off the believers’ holiday…I earn in two hours what you paid in cab fare thanks to their beliefs.

          • not the point, is it? because I am atheist I was singled out to work on the one day I said I would not work. I had a valid reason to NOT work it but my reasons were put aside so some lazy christian could celebrate. nothing quite like having to pay $50 each way to care for a client you’d never met and will never see again because they are someone else’s client. and I’m sure you are one of those who say no bus service is not a valid reason, but you can bet your ass they didn’t make any muslim work.

          • Where I work, EVERYONE works Christmas and every other holiday. Vacation requests are handed out based on seniority (how long you have been in the job). How you get yourself to and from the job is NOT the problem of the employer. They expect you to show up when you are booked to work. This agreement is negotiated between the union and the employer. As such, many of us worked EVERY Christmas for 15 years before we ever got one off because of our low level of seniority and the fact that a hospital is always open for business. There is absolutely NO regard given to your religion, your childcare situation or anything else….only your seniority as negotiated by the union. When we enter the job we know that is the way it is and we suck it up so yes, you are complaining to the wrong person.

          • That’s called an idiot boss. Your generalizing it to all Christians is called bigotry.

          • Any conclusion you can come to ‘by faith’….is horsefeathers.

          • EmilyOne…thank you for your insightful conclusion. :) I wonder how many times each day you do things that are totally based on ‘faith’?? Ever get on an airplane? Drive a car down a crowded highway expecting to arrive safely at your destination? Eat food prepared by others?

            Our lives are governed by our willingness to have faith in many people that we do not know, have never met, have no idea as to their integrity…

            But then…that may just be ‘horsefeathers’. May you have a great faith-filled day!

          • Getting on an airplane is based on science. Driving a car is based on skill. Eating prepared food is based on regulation.

            And how you can expand that to believing in some sky fairy beats me.

    • If that’s the case, maybe they should just go over to the United Church and hire themselves a couple of big 300 pounders.

  6. The poll question is moronic. The Pope said no such thing. Read the bloody interview!

    • Right on the money!

      • Dig in those fingernails guys…LOL

        • LOL (Snicker)

    • You’re right, both about the poll question, and in that what the Pope said in the long interview was equivocal. But in a follow-up interview, he said that Catholic doctors should refuse to do abortions; so it appears his “thinking” on this issue is identical with the Church’s hard-line official stance. It will be interesting to see what he says when he’s asked to clarify his remarks about homosexuality.

    • The pope can change ‘church law’….he is warning people ahead of time that he’s about to do so.

      Assuming he lives that long of course.

      • Look Emily we know you have issues, 8,316 bizarre postings are evidence enough of that.

        We also know, because you scream it to the ceiling, that you are an extreme atheist who hates organized religion. No one really cares, what’s one more Liberal Party wacko here or there?

        Bu I promise you when you come here with “warnings” and threaten the Pope you’ve gone too far.

        • It’s usually Emily I call on this, but go back & reread her comment; she didn’t say what you seem to think she said.

          (Though I do agree she has issues)

          • Bram, sorry to disagree with you but that thing, in typical smart alec fashion, threatened the Pope and I’ve made sure that attention is being given to it.

          • I don’t see a threat – not from Emily, anyway. A smart alec comment, sure, but not a threat.
            Between his age, the intransigence of the church establishment – and yes, the distinct possibility (as with all religious and political leaders) that some crackpot may try an assasination – the Pope may well have difficulty in making the reforms he wants to make within the time he will have available to him.

  7. Pope Francis didn’t say anything of the sort…

  8. In order to agree that the Church should treat all human beings decently I have to vote that the pope is cool?

    Right. Good luck with that. See you next week, MacLeans.

  9. I disagree with the wording of this pole. Calling the pope #coolpope feels like it is belittling his stance. The pope isn’t just being cool, he’s breaking new ground on decades old hegemony.

  10. How about the choice : Yes, but why should anybody care about what the Church has to say about human rights?

    • because religion is the greatest supressor of human rights. the catholic church denies women the right to decide what to do with our own bodies

    • Yes, seeing as they’ve never practiced it.

  11. That is not what the Pope said. Some twisting here!

  12. Headline is ridiculous. Is there some editorial bigotry here?

  13. Tying abortion to homosexuality, is kind of tying gas chambers to civil rights. They’re almost opposites.

  14. If the pope actually makes changes in the church instead of just talking about it, a lot of people are going to need smelling salts, stat! LOL

  15. This poll is silly. The pope did not say that the church should shake its thinking on abortion and homosexuality. I am not religious, but I work for a religious publication, and it’s amusing to see the secular media distort what came out of his interview, published last week.

    • The exact transcript is onsite.