26

Bizarro world


 

Britain’s new foreign secretary says the coalition government will move forward with a judicial inquiry into his country’s alleged complicity in torture.

“So far ministers have stuck to the mantra that ‘we never condone, authorise or co-operate in torture’,” Hague wrote. “But this does not dispel any of the accusations. If anything, there is now a direct and irreconcilable conflict between such ministerial assurances and the account given by Mr Mohamed. That must be resolved.”

He added: “We cannot sweep these allegations under the carpet. Until the full facts are known, Britain’s name and reputation will be dragged through the mud – not least by the terrorists and extremists who will exploit these allegations for their own propaganda.’

“It is vital to remember that torture does not help us defeat terrorists; it helps them to try to justify their hostility to us.”

More here and here.


 

Bizarro world

  1. See what happens when an undemocratic, unelected coalition takes power?

    • Nah, it's more like: see what happens when only one party is possibly to blame, and that party isn't in government.

  2. “It is vital to remember that torture does not help us defeat terrorists; it helps them to try to justify their hostility to us.”

    I like that. True words spoken.

  3. What can you expect from a man whose name is "Hague"?

    Why don't the Brits love their troops?

  4. Until the full facts are known, Britain's name and reputation will be dragged through the mud – not least by the terrorists and extremists who will exploit these allegations for their own propaganda.

    These words essentially speak for themselves

  5. So now we are going to go on a witch hunt trying to ensure that countries who were trying to protect their soldiers, fight a hostile group of insurgents who were killing the troops brutally are not tortured. The world is becoming more screwed up everyday.

    Not sure whether the Brits are talking about Iraq or Afganistan but to think that war is executed perfectly is nuts. Nobody is perfect in the heat of battle. Ask a WW2 Vet.

    I don't buy this santimonious crap. The only reason it is being pursued in any country is for the partisan advantage it might give a particular party. Don't give me the line torturing will cause them to hate us even more. They already hate us and no amount of self righteousness is going to change that.

    • Yeah! Don't give none this "winning over the hearts and minds of the enemy" horseslop! That crap is for wimps and bleeding heart liberals…that stuff never works…just like the Marshall Plan didn't!

      (oh wait…)

      • Yes, we were lucky the Marshall Plan won the French back to our side…but the carpet bombing and occupation of Germany and the atomic bombing of Japan maybe complicates your general point…

    • Hollinm: take a refresher course on the Geneva Conventions, war crimes, International law etc.. it might help you understand better.

      • For hollinm it's a case of "Geneva Convetions? We don't need no stinking Geneva Conventions."

        • CAPS…..read by post to Scott_Tribe.

          Care to repeat the section of the Geneva Convention that includes insurgents, terrorists et al.

      • A refresher course? Didn't you hear? CPCers have no love for academia and their professors who "talk down" to them.

      • We all got a refresher course on Geneva Conventions, war crimes, International law etc. from former Liberal Minister Bill Graham (and an international law professer) who patiently explained that Ujjal Dossanj and the Liberals had completly confused the issues.
        http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publicat

      • Scott..Tribe…..when was the Geneva Convention written. It was after the second world war. We are not fighting country against country. The Geneva Convention addresses that issue.

        However, the world has changed and we are fighting insurgents, terrorists, muslim extermists whatever label you want. They hate us being in Afghanistan and they do not want us to succeed no matter how nice we are to them. The Geneva Covention does not address insurgents, enemy combatants who are like militia groups. I could stand to be corrected. If I am pls. refer to the section of the Geneva Convention that talks about these groups and how they are protected under the Convention.

        How does it help screaming about war crimes,international law etc? What you are doing is tearing down the country and maligning the good work our troops are doing (of course you will deny it). It is not Harper who will be charged with war crimes it is Canada. Bill Graham in his testimony basically supported the government's position. However, in your partisan zeal you will say and do anything that you think migh hurt Harper and to h.ll with with the reputation of the country.

        • hollinm continued…..
          Scott-Tribe…

          Since Iffy condones torture and is a big supporter of George Bush he has little credibility on the subject.

          Until you are prepared to quote chapter an verse of the section of the Geneva Convention which covers insurgents et al I will not accept your interpretation.

    • It's a hard issue for any non-veteran to really understand. Can war be fought in a relatively civilized manner or is that just an idealistic, pie in the sky dream?

      Personally, if I could, I'd like to ask a WW1 vet about this. The prisoners of war portion of the Geneva Convention largely stemmed from the treatment experience by those vets. If anyone would have an opinion on if society should see any value in those laws it would be them.

      Alternatively I would like to ask John McCain if he would have preferred for the North Vietnamese to adhere the Geneva Convention which it had signed. Also if he thinks modern day countries should follow those same international laws that North Vietnam ignored during his captivity.

    • "They already hate us and no amount of self righteousness is going to change that."

      Who do you think "they" are? The problem with torturing people is that it makes other people, even ones you haven't tortured yet, think you're evil. You can try to explain that you were only torturing people because you're already hated, but why do you think that will win you any friends?

      • Style…..they are insurgents, terrorists, enemy combatants, muslim extremists and any other group in Afghanistan who hate Westerners and our way of life.

        • Do you think people are born into these groups at a constant replacement rate? People join and fall away from these groups, moving into and out of the column "our friends". Torturing people we suspect belong to these groups tends to make "our friends" think we are not good people. Then they wonder if they want to be our friends. That makes it easier for people who oppose us to recruit our friends to fight against us. If torture and mistreatment had some great advantage, it might be worth the trade-off, but the evidence suggests torture is pretty useless.

          • Style…..then you should ask the resident expert on torture Iffy. He says there are times when it is appropriate. After all he is an expert on human rights (sarcasm intended). By the way that's why he asks view questions in the House on detainees because he knows his worlds will get thrown back in his face.

            By the way I hear what you are saying and it would be wonderful if we could have a clean fight where all sides behave themselves like gentlemen and ladies. It ain't going to happen. It is war and sh.t happens.

            Just a reminder our troops did not torture anybody full stop. Afghanistan is a sovereign country and if they have performed torture it is for their account.

          • As long as we're policing Afghanistan we'll have some responsibility for keeping people from torture. AS long as we're helping build Afghanistan, we'll need to work to stop torture in its prisons. I agree the Liberal games on this have been silly partisanship and it'd be great if Canada could have a sensible discussion about both Afghanistan and how best to police our military.

  6. Me am so happy, me want to cry.

  7. "He added: “We cannot sweep these allegations under the carpet. Until the full facts are known, Britain's name and reputation will be dragged through the mud – not least by the terrorists and extremists who will exploit these allegations for their own propaganda.'"

    Statements like these are embarassing for us Canadians these days. We now live in a country where complicity in the torture of POWs (and even our own citizens for that matter) is justifiable.

    smh

    • PolJunkie….you need to take a deep breath and come back from the hyperbolic rhetoric. Santimonious twit.

  8. Enough twitting to go around Hollinm!!
    So – you think the Geneva Convention is too old eh Mr. H – all that old junky stuff!
    I guess you and your Conservative brethren don't go out to the Cenotaphs, War Memorials and Legion events then to celebrate the dedication and sacrifice that all those OLD FARTS did back then?
    You ideologues – you really get up my nose with your hypocrisy sometimes with your selective thinking!

    • Wascally….what in the h.ll are you talking about. I have the greatest of respect for the veterans.

      My point and you know full well what I meant. The Geneva Covention does not cover specifically enemy combatants, terrorists, detainees, muslim extremists etc. etc. It was crafted based on the old rules of combat i.e. sovereign country fighting a sovereign country. So the call about war crimes and that Canada is in violation of the Geneva Convention is pure b.s. Show me the section that covers the people I recited above. While it may fit into your partisan spin the fact remains you can't make the Geneva Convention say something that it doesn't.

      Perhaps you should crawl out of your santimonious a$$. Either the Convention covers these types of people or. If it doesn't how can one be in violation. Get real.

      Once again there is no evidence our troops tortured anyone despite your best efforts to malign the good work they are doing in Afghanistan. Afghanistan is a barbaric country who has known war for centuries. That's why we are there but to suggest that Conservatives don't support the military is beyond stupid.

Sign in to comment.