Civil disagreement


From QP this afternoon, Public Safety Minister Vic Toews responds to concerns raised by Liberal MP Francis Scarpaleggia about the government’s pursuit of so-called lawful access legislation.

“He can either stand with us or with the child pornographers.”


Civil disagreement

  1. About as disgraceful as you can get for a politician. Just because I don’t like the government seeing what I shop for, what news I read, what sites I visit, etc. does not automatically indiciate that I both indulge in and support such a distasteful thing as child pornography. 

    • Heck I don’t even mind them seeing that stuff as long as they can go to the court to get a WARRANT for it, and my ISP bill doesn’t skyrocket with the difficult record keeping the bill requires. 

  2. Or he could stand with law-abiding citizens while Vic Toews stands with the KGB.

    • Stasi is more like it.

  3. The census is a mandatory, intrusive invasion of privacy, but forcing ISP’s to monitor and surrender records of your internet use isn’t.

    • LOL – funny but true synopsis of this government’s stance.

      • Usually, there is some kind of meta-frame the CPC won’t tell you that binds the extremes in some sort of rationalized coherency. I can’t find it here.

  4. Gee, I wonder what Larry Miller has to say about this.

    • If we were all equally armed there’d be no pornographers, the Holocaust wouldn’t have happened and the FN’s would still run this country…and my neighbours dog would be dead meat.

    • Excellent link! Thanks!

      My favourite bit:
      Does the government seem somewhat inconsistent on its crime and privacy policies?If by inconsistent you mean supporting the creation of widespread surveillance capabilities,  removing foundational privacy principles requiring court oversight, and claiming the need to support police investigations, while:
      killing the long gun registry over the objections of the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Policeplanning to delete the data from the long gun registry on privacy grounds (Toews: “to maintain the registry and the information is a complete violation of law and the principles of privacy that all of us in the House respect”)scrapping the mandatory long-form census on privacy grounds
      then, yes, they seem somewhat inconsistent.

  5. It’s an ancient Conservative meme

    Those with long memories may remember Stockwell Day stepping out from behind the podium to yell “you’re choosing pedophiles over children!” at Jean Chretien during a federal debate.  It’s funny because between them, Joe Clark and Stock were beating up on Chretien pretty good at the time. Chretien was looking rather shell shocked and when Stockwell went into his rant, Clark turned and redirected at HIM, giving Chretien time to shake off the punches and get back on his feet. It was as if Joe was saying : “hold up here cowpoke, that ain’t playing fair….”

    “Fair”  What a quaint old word, relegated to the political dustbin along with “honourable”

    • Ironically, Stockwell Day said, back in 2007 when HE was Public Safety Minister:

      “We have not and we will not be proposing legislation to grant police the power to get information from Internet companies without a warrant. That’s never been a proposal. It may make some investigations more difficult, but our expectation is rights to our privacy are such that we do not plan, nor will we have in place, something that would allow the police to get that information.”

      First, Stephen Harper made me pine for the days of Preston Manning.  Now, Vic Toews makes me pine for the days of Stockwell Day.

      • And I thought they set the bar low by having Stockwell as PS Minister. I guess there’s a lot of residue to be mined at the bottom of Harper’s barrel. 

  6. “Law enforcement agencies have been unable to come up with a single investigation that has been hampered by the limits of the laws currently on the books. Even the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police could not find a “sufficient quantity of credible examples” to support the additional powers the lawful access legislation would grant them, according to a series of internal e-mails obtained by the Vancouver-based group Open Media. Postmedia News has also obtained government documents, in which officials from within Public Safety Canada object to some of the key arguments the Minister has used to justify the bill”.

  7. Given the choice of standing with Vic Toews or child pornographers, I’d have to stand with.. 

    ..damn.. gimme a minute here.. I gotta think about this.

    • Andrew Coyne, formerly of… here, just tweeted the following, I presume in response to Toews’ idiocy:

      “Let me be clear: when it comes to the great controversies of the day, I stand with the New Pornographers”.

      • Well.. on the one hand there’s those who use their positions of authority to take advantage of folks who can’t do anything about it and don’t know any better for their own perverse pleasure and profit, without any sort of empathy or thought to the harm it causes or how it might damage future generations, and on the other hand there’s child pornographers..


  8. Vic Toews – stand with us or you’re for child pornography? You say these kind of things in parliament and demand that we give you unfettered powers to spy on us?

    This man is really scary and so is this government.

  9. First Fox News North is exposed as the new Pravda, then Toews is exposed as an emulator of the Stasi.  When will the Conservatives stop looking to Cold War-era communists for inspiration?

    • Fox News North as Pravda? You have no idea. Try reading through the bombshell being dropped on Media Matters For America this week, then get back to me on Pravda.

      Pravda would be most envious of what David Brock has managed to accomplish.

  10.  I’m not going to defend Toews or this initiative. It’s garbage and there’s no place for this kind of hyperbole.

    But finally you liberals might start to understand how annoying, obnoxious and frustrating it is when you do the same thing to conservatives.

    “Oppose Obama? You must be a racist”.
    “Disagree with climate change? You’re a mouth-breather who’s going to destroy the planet”.

    And a hundred others just like it.

    I know it’ll never happen, but it would be nice if you liberals and media types could for once muster the same sort of outrage when this type of hyperbole is perpetrated by your side in the name of stifling legitimate debate. It sure as hell happens often enough.

    • You do realize there’s a difference between what you read on forums and what politicians say, right?

      At least, there damn well should be.

      •  Quite frankly, I think the difference is more between what he reads on internet forums and what he thinks he’s reading on internet forums.

    • “Create strawmen?  You must be a poor debator.”  should probably be on this list.

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