Creation story - Macleans.ca
 

Creation story


 

Stephen Harper, addressing a rally in Kitchener last Friday.

Friends, we are here for Canada, the country we as Conservatives created.

Fodder for debate on this point here and here.


 

Creation story

  1. LOL well it was only a matter of time until Harper started considering himself God.

    In reality, Harper isn't even a conservative.

  2. Referring as he was to Sir John A., I don't see a problem with his statement. After a century of the Liberal party blurring the branding of Canada and their party a bit of historical correction may be called for.

  3. Sir John A. MacDonald was the driving force behind confederation. He was a Conservative. As leader of the Conservative Party he created Canada.

  4. Sir John A. MacDonald was the driving force behind confederation. He was a Conservative. As leader of the Conservative Party he created Canada.

    • Has Harper ever paid tribute to former Conservative Prime Minister's before? I don't recall him ever even acknowledging them?

      • Yes, frequently.

      • Oh, you make sure to find a copy of every transcript from every speech Harper ever gives?

        • I've heard him make similar remarks before. Why would that be suprising?

    • It is spelled Macdonald. And I wonder how many pictures of Sir John A. were removed by Harper to make room for more photos of his own ugly mug?

  5. So Harper made the Meech Lake Accord to?

    Might wanna rethink this one, kiddo.

  6. So Harper made the Meech Lake Accord to?

    Might wanna rethink this one, kiddo.

    • What has Meech Lake got to do with Confederation?

  7. Canada was around long before Sir John A…so let's skip the revisionist rhetoric.

  8. Canada was around long before Sir John A…so let's skip the revisionist rhetoric.

    • Upper and Lower Canada were British colonies. So were Nova Scotia and New Brunswick. The Dominion of Canada, a new country, was formed in1867 when these colonies joined together in a confederation. As renowned Canadian historian J.M. Bumsted states:

      "To noboy's surprise, the governor general Lord Monck, called on John A. MacDonald, the politician everyone associated with the union, to be the first prime minister. On the morning of the first of July…the new country was proclaimed…" (Bumsted 2003 :508)

      Please enlighten yourself before you make unfounded accusations. There are many Canadian historical texts available at your local library

      • Skipping over Genesis, thousands of years of aboriginal federations, Canadien in Quebec, and the formation of Upper and Lower Canada….who then came together:

        'The provinces of Lower Canada and Upper Canada were combined as the United Province of Canada in 1841, when The Union Act came into force. Their separate legislatures were combined into a single parliament with equal representation for both constituent parts, even if Lower Canada had more population'

        Perhaps you should have read the opening items here about LaFontaine and Baldwin.

        Please enlighten yourself.

  9. Has Harper ever paid tribute to former Conservative Prime Minister's before? I don't recall him ever even acknowledging them?

  10. So, he's "here for Canada." And since he created it, he can take it back? Are we a bat and a ball now?

  11. So, he's "here for Canada." And since he created it, he can take it back? Are we a bat and a ball now?

  12. Yes, frequently.

  13. Friends, we are here for Canada, the country we as Conservatives created.

    Must have been a really old audience, to have attended at the creation.

  14. Friends, we are here for Canada, the country we as Conservatives created.

    Must have been a really old audience, to have attended at the creation.

    • Nice try.

  15. Macdonald certainly deserves credit as the driving force behind confederation, but he actually led, horror of horrors, a coalition Liberal-Conservative government at the time.

  16. Macdonald certainly deserves credit as the driving force behind confederation, but he actually led, horror of horrors, a coalition Liberal-Conservative government at the time.

    • Liberal-Conservative-Bleu coalition

      • I suspect Harper skipped over tht part of the text.

        • The party was named "Liberal Conservatives" but was not a coalition (other than in the sense the BC Liberals are a "coalition" of correct-thinking voters). The Conservative Party has changed its name a few times over the years, but the only true coalition governmetn was Sir Robert Borden's Union government during WWI.

          • Yes, Liberal-Conservative-Bleu coalition only applied to the colony of Canada. This coalition was formed to expediate confederation with the other colonies of BNA so that together they could present the Americans with a united front following the Trente affair of 1861.

  17. Their ears still hurt from the Big Bang.

  18. If hubris were King, Harper would rule.
    Oh…wait a minute

  19. If hubris were King, Harper would rule.
    Oh…wait a minute

  20. Nothing about that statement should make anyone think Harper has a God-complex….unless you are incapable of objective thought when it comes to anything he says.

  21. Oh, you make sure to find a copy of every transcript from every speech Harper ever gives?

  22. yes exactly…get over it.

  23. I think he may be referring to something about "in his own image" and the need for a majority.

  24. Nice try.

  25. Conservatives didn't create Canada, nor is Harper a conservative.

    When he says 'we, as conservatives, created' he is suffering from a 'god complex', not to mention, lying.

  26. Upper and Lower Canada were British colonies. So were Nova Scotia and New Brunswick. The Dominion of Canada, a new country, was formed in1867 when these colonies joined together in a confederation. As renowned Canadian historian J.M. Bumsted states:

    "To noboy's surprise, the governor general Lord Monck, called on John A. MacDonald, the politician everyone associated with the union, to be the first prime minister. On the morning of the first of July…the new country was proclaimed…" (Bumsted 2003 :508)

    Please enlighten yourself before you make unfounded accusations. There are many Canadian historical texts available at your local library

  27. Whether or not he's paid tribute to former Conservative prime ministers before is irrelevant. Our prime minister is entitled to evoke our shared history. It is not as if the Liberal's don't constantly roll out Trudeau and Pearson in their public speeches.

  28. Whether or not he's paid tribute to former Conservative prime ministers before is irrelevant. Our prime minister is entitled to evoke our shared history. It is not as if the Liberal%E2%80%99s don%E2%80%99t constantly roll out Trudeau and Pearson in their public speeches.

  29. On the other hand, they were actually the same party.

  30. On the other hand, they were actually the same party.

  31. To me this is like the GOP calling themselves the Pary of Lincoln. While technically true, it's not particularly relevant in today's discourse.

  32. Canadians (and other nationals) made Canada, not a political party.

  33. To me this is like the GOP calling themselves the Pary of Lincoln. While technically true, it's not particularly relevant in today's discourse.

    • Neither is evoking Trudeau, Pearson, or Douglas but the opposition parties regularly refer to these individuals in their speeches.

      • No argument from me !

  34. Canadians (and other nationals) made Canada, not a political party.

    • Nor a political movement or ideology.

  35. Get over Harper revising our history to suit himself……?

    No.

  36. Get over Harper revising our history to suit himself……?

    No.

  37. Did you watch the clip? He was evoking the long federalist history of the Conservative Party. A party that spearheaded the confederation of the colonies of British North America, in order to provide a strong unified country to oppose possible American aggression following the Trent affair of 1861.

  38. Did you watch the clip? He was evoking the long federalist history of the Conservative Party. A party that spearheaded the confederation of the colonies of British North America, in order to provide a strong unified country to oppose possible American aggression following the Trent affair of 1861.

    • This comment was deleted.

      • Logic and literacy are apparently as foreign to you as our nation's history.

        • Personal attacks don't change history, dude.

      • Logic and literacy are apparently as foreign to you as our nation's history.

    • And 150 years later Harpers conservatives are selling out Canada to the US instead of " opposing possible American aggression" How ironic!

  39. Skipping over Genesis, thousands of years of aboriginal federations, Canadien in Quebec, and the formation of Upper and Lower Canada….who then came together:

    'The provinces of Lower Canada and Upper Canada were combined as the United Province of Canada in 1841, when The Union Act came into force. Their separate legislatures were combined into a single parliament with equal representation for both constituent parts, even if Lower Canada had more population'

    Perhaps you should have read the opening items here about LaFontaine and Baldwin.

    Please enlighten yourself.

  40. "And since he created it, he can take it back? Are we a bat and a ball now?"

    Did the words "…take it back…" leave his lips? No. Harper was referring to the Conservative Party's historical leadership, under Sir John A. MacDonald, in promoting a strong federalist nation.

  41. "And since he created it, he can take it back? Are we a bat and a ball now?"

    Did the words "…take it back…" leave his lips? No. Harper was referring to the Conservative Party's historical leadership, under Sir John A. MacDonald, in promoting a strong federalist nation.

    • The current Conservative party has it's roots go back to 2003. The Progressive Conservative party had much longer roots.

      Harper does not lead the party of MacDonald. Last person to lead MacDonald's party was… Peter MacKay.

      • No, the merger of the two parties in 2003 was just that, a merger, which did not destroy either party. The party of Sir John continues in the current party.

    • "We as conservatives created" To my partisan ears that doesn't leave an awful ot of room for crediting others. In anut shell that's one of my main problems with Harper – he's so uber partian. Correct me if i'm wrong, but even on his worst partisan day i don't believe i heard Trudeau[ or Chretien] claim that only liberals were involved in shaping the country. I never heard them publically disparage Dief or fail to attend the 25th anniversary of the charter[ a Canadian document, not a liberal party possession] nor did they fail to turn up and honour Pearson…oh, wait let me see, that was another PM, was't it?

    • And just how is Harper continuing the "…historical leadership, under Sir John A. MacDonald, in promoting a strong federalist nation."?

      I think a good case can be made that Harper is devolving the federation that Sir John A. MacDonald helped bring forward.

      • Harper is working to promote a strong federalist Canada whose power is not centred in Ontario and Quebec; problems which have been around since confederation.

        • After the Canadian Alliance's poor showing in the 2000 election, Harper joined with other Western conservatives in co-authoring a document called the "Alberta Agenda". The letter called on Alberta to reform publicly-funded health care, replace the Canada Pension Plan with a provincial plan and replace the Royal Canadian Mounted Police with a provincial police force. It became known as the "firewall letter", because it called on the provincial government to "build firewalls around Alberta" in order to stop the federal government from redistributing its wealth to less affluent regions.
          Way to bring us all together Harper.

        • Exactly, he wants to shift power to the US. Texas would be his first choice. Bush country.

  42. Liberal-Conservative-Bleu coalition

  43. Even that wouldn't be true. There's a much better case to be made for Baldwin and Lafontaine.Neither were members of the LPC as far as i'm aware.

  44. Even that wouldn't be true. There's a much better case to be made for Baldwin and Lafontaine.Neither were members of the LPC as far as i'm aware.

    • Baldwin and Lafontaine were instrumental in bringing responsible government to Canada East and West. But the greater concept of a united country from coast to coast, including all the British colonies, was Sir John's. Not his alone, of course, but surely it would be churlish to deny him his role in that accomplishment, and the role of the Conservative Party in supporting him?

      • IT was a COALITION government, not just Conservative, and certaqinly noyt Reformatories like Harper, who would be incapalbe of working with other people to create instead of destroy.

      • You make my point MR…"not his alone of course"…thankyou. That's all i want to point out. I don't care if Harper brags up Sir John A. But he doesn't own the making of Canada nonetheless.

  45. I'm not sure if you are feigning ignorance or are indeed completely ignorant. The Dominion of Canada was formed on July 1st, 1867 under Conservative Prime Minister Sir. John A. MacDonald. Until that point Canada was not a country it was a territory of the British Empire called British North America and consited of Britian's North American colonies.

  46. Nor a political movement or ideology.

  47. Logic and literacy are apparently as foreign to you as our nation's history.

    • Dominion is a vague word with connotations of power and sovereignty which was selected as it was less inclined to provoke the Americans. Sir John A. Macdonald had originally wanted to call our nation the Kingdom of Canada.

      Canada was a country within the dominion of the British Empire until the Canada Act of 1982 when Canada received complete sovereignty.

      • This comment was deleted.

        • "A 'dominion' isn't an independent country….it's one step up from a colony."
          "'Dominion' is just a legal status, nothing more. Many countries were called dominions."

          Logic and literacy are apparently as foreign to you as our nation's history.

          • Canada became a country on July 1st, 1867 under the banner Dominion of Canada. As much as you may wish to ignore this fact it is indeed true and anything said to the contrary is categorically false.

          • Canada became a 'dominion' in 1867, it was around as Canada in 1840 under the Act of Union.

          • Maybe you should read your Wikipedia article a little more closely. In July of 1840 the Act of Union, following Lord Durham's recommendations united Upper and Lower Canada into a single legislative union. The Dominion of Canada was formed on July 1st, 1867 when the four colonial provinces: Canada, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, and PEI entered into a confederation.

        • This comment was deleted.

          • No it doesn't.

            You're just more concerned with mythology than facts.

  48. Personal attacks don't change history, dude.

  49. Logic and literacy are apparently as foreign to you as our nation's history.

  50. Logic and literacy are apparently as foreign to you as our nation%E2%80%99s history.

  51. Neither is evoking Trudeau, Pearson, or Douglas but the opposition parties regularly refer to these individuals in their speeches.

  52. I suspect Harper skipped over tht part of the text.

  53. Didn't Harper help destroy the party of MacDonald?

  54. It is spelled Macdonald. And I wonder how many pictures of Sir John A. were removed by Harper to make room for more photos of his own ugly mug?

  55. The current Conservative party has it's roots go back to 2003. The Progressive Conservative party had much longer roots.

    Harper does not lead the party of MacDonald. Last person to lead MacDonald's party was… Peter MacKay.

  56. "…Macdonald remained in Opposition until the election of 1854, after which he was involved in the creation of a new political alliance – the Liberal-Conservative Party – in which the Conservatives were attached to the existing alliance of Upper Canadian Reformers and the French Canadian majority political bloc. Once returned to office, he assumed the prestigious post of attorney general of UC. On the retirement, which he helped to engineer in 1856, of Conservative leader Sir Allan MACNAB, Macdonald succeeded him as joint-premier of the Province of Canada, along with Étienne-Paschal TACHÉ (and then with George-Étienne CARTIER 1857-62, with the exception of the 2-day Brown-Dorion administration in 1858).

    [to be continued]

  57. "…Macdonald remained in Opposition until the election of 1854, after which he was involved in the creation of a new political alliance – the Liberal-Conservative Party – in which the Conservatives were attached to the existing alliance of Upper Canadian Reformers and the French Canadian majority political bloc. Once returned to office, he assumed the prestigious post of attorney general of UC. On the retirement, which he helped to engineer in 1856, of Conservative leader Sir Allan MACNAB, Macdonald succeeded him as joint-premier of the Province of Canada, along with Étienne-Paschal TACHÉ (and then with George-Étienne CARTIER 1857-62, with the exception of the 2-day Brown-Dorion administration in 1858).

    [to be continued]

    • During the years 1854-64 Macdonald faced growing opposition in his own section of the province to the political union of Upper and Lower Canada. The Reform view, voiced by George BROWN of the Toronto Globe, complained that the legitimate needs and aspirations of UC were frustrated by the "domination" of French Canadian influence in the government of Macdonald and George-Étienne Cartier. By 1864 the political and sectional forces in the province were deadlocked and Macdonald reluctantly accepted Brown's proposal for a new coalition, to include the Upper Canadian Reformers, designed to solve the constitutional difficulties through the adoption of a federal system, applied if possible to all the colonies of British North America.

      [to be continued]

      • While conceding the necessity of a federal arrangement to accommodate strong racial, religious and regional differences, Macdonald's preference was for a strong, highly centralized, unitary form of government. Macdonald took the leading part in the drafting of a federal system in which the central government held unmistakable dominance over the provincial governments. His great constitutional expertise, ability and knowledge received immediate recognition from the imperial government. Created Sir John A. Macdonald, Knight Commander of the Bath, he was chosen to take office as first prime minister of Canada on 1 July 1867…"
        http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?…

  58. "We as conservatives created" To my partisan ears that doesn't leave an awful ot of room for crediting others. In anut shell that's one of my main problems with Harper – he's so uber partian. Correct me if i'm wrong, but even on his worst partisan day i don't believe i heard Trudeau[ or Chretien] claim that only liberals were involved in shaping the country. I never heard them publically disparage Dief or fail to attend the 25th anniversary of the charter[ a Canadian document, not a liberal party possession] nor did they fail to turn up and honour Pearson…oh, wait let me see, that was another PM, was't it?

  59. During the years 1854-64 Macdonald faced growing opposition in his own section of the province to the political union of Upper and Lower Canada. The Reform view, voiced by George BROWN of the Toronto Globe, complained that the legitimate needs and aspirations of UC were frustrated by the "domination" of French Canadian influence in the government of Macdonald and George-Étienne Cartier. By 1864 the political and sectional forces in the province were deadlocked and Macdonald reluctantly accepted Brown's proposal for a new coalition, to include the Upper Canadian Reformers, designed to solve the constitutional difficulties through the adoption of a federal system, applied if possible to all the colonies of British North America.

    [to be continued]

  60. While conceding the necessity of a federal arrangement to accommodate strong racial, religious and regional differences, Macdonald's preference was for a strong, highly centralized, unitary form of government. Macdonald took the leading part in the drafting of a federal system in which the central government held unmistakable dominance over the provincial governments. His great constitutional expertise, ability and knowledge received immediate recognition from the imperial government. Created Sir John A. Macdonald, Knight Commander of the Bath, he was chosen to take office as first prime minister of Canada on 1 July 1867…"
    http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?…

  61. This should be put in context at least. It was a tory only by appointment rally wasn't it? So, he's geeing up the troops…still, the man is myopic.
    I hope the libs don't obssess over this[ that sends an immature message to the public all of its own] Just laugh it off and nudge a friendly historian or two to publically disparage Harper's parochial view of history.

  62. This should be put in context at least. It was a tory only by appointment rally wasn't it? So, he's geeing up the troops…still, the man is myopic.
    I hope the libs don't obssess over this[ that sends an immature message to the public all of its own] Just laugh it off and nudge a friendly historian or two to publically disparage Harper's parochial view of history.

  63. And just how is Harper continuing the "…historical leadership, under Sir John A. MacDonald, in promoting a strong federalist nation."?

    I think a good case can be made that Harper is devolving the federation that Sir John A. MacDonald helped bring forward.

  64. What has Meech Lake got to do with Confederation?

  65. Since so many here are apparently unaware of our nation's inception here is a summery.

    1861 – American Civil War Begins

    1861 – Confederate diplomats seized off the British mail ship SS Trente. Lincoln refuses to release the prisoners. Britain begins reinforcing her garrisons in British North America. The stage is set for an Anglo-American War.

    1864 – Military situation turns dangerous as Americans gain clear victories over the Confederates.

    1864 – The difficulties experienced by the Upper Canadian government in organizing a militia during the War of 1812 lead the parties of a recently united colony of Upper and Lower Canada to form a 'Great Coalition' government consisting of the Tories, Grits, and Bleus.

  66. Since so many here are apparently unaware of our nation's inception here is a summery.

    1861 – American Civil War Begins

    1861 – Confederate diplomats seized off the British mail ship SS Trente. Lincoln refuses to release the prisoners. Britain begins reinforcing her garrisons in British North America. The stage is set for an Anglo-American War.

    1864 – Military situation turns dangerous as Americans gain clear victories over the Confederates.

    1864 – The difficulties experienced by the Upper Canadian government in organizing a militia during the War of 1812 lead the parties of a recently united colony of Upper and Lower Canada to form a 'Great Coalition' government consisting of the Tories, Grits, and Bleus.

    • 1864 – Spurred by the Trente affair representatives of BNA's colonies meet for the Charlottetown Conference.

      1864 – During the Quebec Conference possible senate divisions are discussed. Atlantic Provinces are opposed to Confederation

      1866 – Delegates from Canada, Nova Scotia, and New Brunswick meet in London to work out the details of Confederation.

      1867 – The Dominion of Canada is formed. John A. MacDonald leader of the Tory party who was most associated with the union becomes prime minister.

      • You might also include the continuing terrorist attacks by the Fenian Brotherhood, including the assasssination of D'Arcy Magee, and the financial crisis in Canada (which needed to be bailed out by the "have" provinces of Nova Scotia and New Brunswick.

        It is a little depressing that a completely run of the mill statement like this by the PM would engender such hostility from so many partisans of the other parties. I guess that's to be expected in elections (especially when those other parties are losing).

  67. Baldwin and Lafontaine were instrumental in bringing responsible government to Canada East and West. But the greater concept of a united country from coast to coast, including all the British colonies, was Sir John's. Not his alone, of course, but surely it would be churlish to deny him his role in that accomplishment, and the role of the Conservative Party in supporting him?

  68. 1864 – Spurred by the Trente affair representatives of BNA's colonies meet for the Charlottetown Conference.

    1864 – During the Quebec Conference possible senate divisions are discussed. Atlantic Provinces are opposed to Confederation

    1866 – Delegates from Canada, Nova Scotia, and New Brunswick meet in London to work out the details of Confederation.

    1867 – The Dominion of Canada is formed. John A. MacDonald leader of the Tory party who was most associated with the union becomes prime minister.

  69. I've heard him make similar remarks before. Why would that be suprising?

  70. IT was a COALITION government, not just Conservative, and certaqinly noyt Reformatories like Harper, who would be incapalbe of working with other people to create instead of destroy.

  71. The party was named "Liberal Conservatives" but was not a coalition (other than in the sense the BC Liberals are a "coalition" of correct-thinking voters). The Conservative Party has changed its name a few times over the years, but the only true coalition governmetn was Sir Robert Borden's Union government during WWI.

  72. No, the merger of the two parties in 2003 was just that, a merger, which did not destroy either party. The party of Sir John continues in the current party.

  73. I never heard Trudeay praise Diefenbaker either. And what is so wrong with being partisan? Especially in the midst of an election campaign and speaking to supporters? It is, after all, an adversarial system. You should read what Sir John A and George Brown said about each other.

  74. No.

  75. No.

  76. Dominion is a vague word with connotations of power and sovereignty which was selected as it was less inclined to provoke the Americans. Sir John A. Macdonald had originally wanted to call our nation the Kingdom of Canada.

    Canada was a country within the dominion of the British Empire until the Canada Act of 1982 when Canada received complete sovereignty.

  77. Yes, Liberal-Conservative-Bleu coalition only applied to the colony of Canada. This coalition was formed to expediate confederation with the other colonies of BNA so that together they could present the Americans with a united front following the Trente affair of 1861.

  78. You might also include the continuing terrorist attacks by the Fenian Brotherhood, including the assasssination of D'Arcy Magee, and the financial crisis in Canada (which needed to be bailed out by the "have" provinces of Nova Scotia and New Brunswick.

    It is a little depressing that a completely run of the mill statement like this by the PM would engender such hostility from so many partisans of the other parties. I guess that's to be expected in elections (especially when those other parties are losing).

  79. John A. actually puked on the floor of the House of Commons looked across the floor at Liberal leader George Brown and said "George Brown, you always did make me sick."

  80. John A. actually puked on the floor of the House of Commons looked across the floor at Liberal leader George Brown and said "George Brown, you always did make me sick."

    • No, he puked while on an election stage and said his opponenet made him sick. He wanted to fight Brown in Parliament, supposedly yelling "I could lick him quicker than hell can scorch a feather!"

  81. Yes the Conservative Party of John A. was one of the partners in Confederation and Canadians have revered and voted for the brand ever since. We alternate between our two top brands to "keep them honest".
    Major glitch: Harper stole the Conservative brand from the hapless Peter McKay.
    Smartest thing Harper ever did.
    Darkest day for Canada.
    Wake up folks, these are not your fore-fathers' (and fore-mothers') Conservatives.

  82. Yes the Conservative Party of John A. was one of the partners in Confederation and Canadians have revered and voted for the brand ever since. We alternate between our two top brands to "keep them honest".
    Major glitch: Harper stole the Conservative brand from the hapless Peter McKay.
    Smartest thing Harper ever did.
    Darkest day for Canada.
    Wake up folks, these are not your fore-fathers' (and fore-mothers') Conservatives.

  83. Harper is working to promote a strong federalist Canada whose power is not centred in Ontario and Quebec; problems which have been around since confederation.

  84. No, he puked while on an election stage and said his opponenet made him sick. He wanted to fight Brown in Parliament, supposedly yelling "I could lick him quicker than hell can scorch a feather!"

  85. Especially when Conservatives lie about history to serve their partisan ends.

  86. "A 'dominion' isn't an independent country….it's one step up from a colony."
    "'Dominion' is just a legal status, nothing more. Many countries were called dominions."

    Logic and literacy are apparently as foreign to you as our nation's history.

  87. Under the subject of " softball lob to Wherryites " this one is at the top—-I cannot be bothered to read the affirmations above—do any of you ever feel a little shame for your antics ?

  88. Under the subject of " softball lob to Wherryites " this one is at the top—-I cannot be bothered to read the affirmations above—do any of you ever feel a little shame for your antics ?

    • I sure hope so…

      OriginalEmily had the tenacity to argue that Canada DID NOT become a country on July 1st, 1867 because according to Wikipedia in 1841 Upper and Lower Canada merged to form the Provinece of Canada.

      Softball or just plain soft…

      • There's even an argument to be made that Canada did not finally become a country until 1982 when the constitution was finally repatriated and the charter negotiated. But i don't hear libs running around claiming they invented the country at that time. For the same reason that it is not true [ as with Harper's overreach, though technically correct] In both cases many many non con/libs helped to bring about both events.

        • The Tories claiming to be the party of confederation because of Macdonald fall into the same category as the Grits claiming to be the party of multiculturalism because of Trudeau and the NDP claiming to be the party of universal healthcare because of Tommy Douglas. All events are significant and although it was undoubtedly not these individuals or parties alone which brought such events to fruition I see no problem with the parties claiming these events as their own and wearing them as a badge of pride.

          • I'd like to agree.But libs don't ignore TD's legacy; nor Dippers MCism.
            It really doesn't bother me that conservatives might take pride in SirJohn A's accomplishment. But i do have a concern if all it's going to amount to is you guys grabbing confederation while we guys grab the charter or Multi-culturalism. I know it's unavoidable to a degree. But i don't think it's healthy for a real country to have its two main parties not sharing in their parties accomplishments. As i said earlier, this con party has even refused to officially acknowledge the 25th ann of the charter. Wouldn't it be absurd if the libs chose to boycott Canada birthday? We all need to grow up a little.

  89. No it doesn't.

    You're just more concerned with mythology than facts.

  90. Canada became a country on July 1st, 1867 under the banner Dominion of Canada. As much as you may wish to ignore this fact it is indeed true and anything said to the contrary is categorically false.

  91. I suppose that one could view it that way. But one would also have to view any Lib/Dipper coalition in the same light after the election. Which would put Liberals in an interesting position where voting Liberal would actually be a vote to destroy the LPC.

  92. I suppose that one could view it that way. But one would also have to view any Lib/Dipper coalition in the same light after the election. Which would put Liberals in an interesting position where voting Liberal would actually be a vote to destroy the LPC.

    • Since a coalition has been explictly ruled out i assume that's merely your own opinion, not a fact.

    • We now don't liv ein Canada…we live in this guy's fevered imagination.

  93. Canada became a 'dominion' in 1867, it was around as Canada in 1840 under the Act of Union.

  94. I sure hope so…

    OriginalEmily had the tenacity to argue that Canada DID NOT become a country on July 1st, 1867 because according to Wikipedia in 1841 Upper and Lower Canada merged to form the Provinece of Canada.

    Softball or just plain soft…

  95. Since a coalition has been explictly ruled out i assume that's merely your own opinion, not a fact.

  96. Maybe you should read your Wikipedia article a little more closely. In July of 1840 the Act of Union, following Lord Durham's recommendations united Upper and Lower Canada into a single legislative union. The Dominion of Canada was formed on July 1st, 1867 when the four colonial provinces: Canada, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, and PEI entered into a confederation.

  97. Yes, I've told you that several times.

  98. There's even an argument to be made that Canada did not finally become a country until 1982 when the constitution was finally repatriated and the charter negotiated. But i don't hear libs running around claiming they invented the country at that time. For the same reason that it is not true [ as with Harper's overreach, though technically correct] In both cases many many non con/libs helped to bring about both events.

  99. We now don't liv ein Canada…we live in this guy's fevered imagination.

  100. I guess for clarity he should have said "Another party with the word conservative in it's name"

  101. I guess for clarity he should have said "Another party with the word conservative in it's name"

  102. "I never heard Trudeau praise Diefenbaker either"..he did put him up for a medal[ order of Canada??] sorry i can't remember exactly…consevatives often draw a blank for me.:)

    I agree, as i said earlier, it shouldn't be obssessed over. But it should be contested or rebutted. No one should be surpised…half truths have become a Harper staple, and context a distant relation.

  103. "I never heard Trudeau praise Diefenbaker either"..he did put him up for a medal[ order of Canada??] sorry i can't remember exactly…consevatives often draw a blank for me.:)

    I agree, as i said earlier, it shouldn't be obssessed over. But it should be contested or rebutted. No one should be surpised…half truths have become a Harper staple, and context a distant relation.

  104. "Macdonald's preference was for a strong, highly centralized, unitary form of government. Macdonald took the leading part in the drafting of a federal system…His great constitutional expertise, ability and knowledge received immediate recognition from the imperial government." – Holly Stick

    "Friends, we are here for Canada, the country we as Conservatives created, we are here to strengthen this country…to make it as strong and free as it can be…" – Stephen Harper

    According to your post and the Canadian Encyclopedia it was the strong leadership of Sir John A. Macdonald, Tory Party leader, which created our strong federalist system. How is it a lie to state that the Tories wish to continue their strong leadership in strengthening our federation which they as Tories have displayed historically?

  105. "Macdonald's preference was for a strong, highly centralized, unitary form of government. Macdonald took the leading part in the drafting of a federal system…His great constitutional expertise, ability and knowledge received immediate recognition from the imperial government." – Holly Stick

    "Friends, we are here for Canada, the country we as Conservatives created, we are here to strengthen this country…to make it as strong and free as it can be…" – Stephen Harper

    According to your post and the Canadian Encyclopedia it was the strong leadership of Sir John A. Macdonald, Tory Party leader, which created our strong federalist system. How is it a lie to state that the Tories wish to continue their strong leadership in strengthening our federation which they as Tories have displayed historically?

  106. And 150 years later Harpers conservatives are selling out Canada to the US instead of " opposing possible American aggression" How ironic!

  107. You make my point MR…"not his alone of course"…thankyou. That's all i want to point out. I don't care if Harper brags up Sir John A. But he doesn't own the making of Canada nonetheless.

  108. The Tories claiming to be the party of confederation because of Macdonald fall into the same category as the Grits claiming to be the party of multiculturalism because of Trudeau and the NDP claiming to be the party of universal healthcare because of Tommy Douglas. All events are significant and although it was undoubtedly not these individuals or parties alone which brought such events to fruition I see no problem with the parties claiming these events as their own and wearing them as a badge of pride.

  109. No you've asserted several times that:

    "Canada [the country] was around long before Sir John A…"
    "'The provinces of Lower Canada and Upper Canada were combined as the United Province of Canada in 1841 [to form a country]"
    "…it was around as Canada [a country] in 1840 under the Act of Union."
    "A 'dominion' isn't an independent country….it's one step up from a colony."
    "'Dominion' is just a legal status, nothing more. Many countries were called dominions."

    I'll explain once again because the point of this exercise seems to have eluded you. The point of this exercise is to attempt to correct the opinion you hold that Canada existed as a country prior to confederation. Canada DID NOT exist as a country prior to 1867. The colonial province of Canada existed after 1840, before this there existed the colonial provinces of Upper and Lower Canada; neither of this were countries they were COLONIAL PROVINCES. Under Tory leader Sir. John A. Macdonald, four provinces of BNA entered confederation on July 1st, 1867 and the country of Canada was formed.

  110. No you've asserted several times that:

    "Canada [the country] was around long before Sir John A…"
    "'The provinces of Lower Canada and Upper Canada were combined as the United Province of Canada in 1841 [to form a country]"
    "…it was around as Canada [a country] in 1840 under the Act of Union."
    "A 'dominion' isn't an independent country….it's one step up from a colony."
    "'Dominion' is just a legal status, nothing more. Many countries were called dominions."

    I'll explain once again because the point of this exercise seems to have eluded you. The point of this exercise is to attempt to correct the opinion you hold that Canada existed as a country prior to confederation. Canada DID NOT exist as a country prior to 1867. The colonial province of Canada existed after 1840, before this there existed the colonial provinces of Upper and Lower Canada; neither of this were countries they were COLONIAL PROVINCES. Under Tory leader Sir. John A. Macdonald, four provinces of BNA entered confederation on July 1st, 1867 and the country of Canada was formed.

    • There is no 'exercise' here except in your mind.

      Canada became a dominion in 1867, not a country.

      • If Canada did not become a country on July 1st, 1867 then when did it become a country? Why do we celebrate its natal day on July 1st, Canada Day? Why does every single piece of literature ever written about Canada state that it became a country on July 1st, 1867?

        I cannot believe that one person could be so wholly ignorant of one of the most basic elements of Canada's history.

        • Legally speaking, Canada became a province in 1840, a dominion in 1867 and a country in 1982 when Trudeau patriated the constitution.

          You began this game of pilpul, not me.

          • Canada became a country after the British North America Act, 1867, came into effect on July 1, 1867. That is why we celebrate its natal day on July 1st, Canada Day and that is why every single piece of literature ever written about Canada state that it became a country on July 1st, 1867.

          • This comment was deleted.

          • This comment was deleted.

  111. There is no 'exercise' here except in your mind.

    Canada became a dominion in 1867, not a country.

  112. After the Canadian Alliance's poor showing in the 2000 election, Harper joined with other Western conservatives in co-authoring a document called the "Alberta Agenda". The letter called on Alberta to reform publicly-funded health care, replace the Canada Pension Plan with a provincial plan and replace the Royal Canadian Mounted Police with a provincial police force. It became known as the "firewall letter", because it called on the provincial government to "build firewalls around Alberta" in order to stop the federal government from redistributing its wealth to less affluent regions.
    Way to bring us all together Harper.

  113. If Canada did not become a country on July 1st, 1867 then when did it become a country? Why do we celebrate its natal day on July 1st, Canada Day? Why does every single piece of literature ever written about Canada state that it became a country on July 1st, 1867?

    I cannot believe that one person could be so wholly ignorant of one of the most basic elements of Canada's history.

  114. Legally speaking, Canada became a province in 1840, a dominion in 1867 and a country in 1982 when Trudeau patriated the constitution.

    You began this game of pilpul, not me.

  115. I'd like to agree.But libs don't ignore TD's legacy; nor Dippers MCism.
    It really doesn't bother me that conservatives might take pride in SirJohn A's accomplishment. But i do have a concern if all it's going to amount to is you guys grabbing confederation while we guys grab the charter or Multi-culturalism. I know it's unavoidable to a degree. But i don't think it's healthy for a real country to have its two main parties not sharing in their parties accomplishments. As i said earlier, this con party has even refused to officially acknowledge the 25th ann of the charter. Wouldn't it be absurd if the libs chose to boycott Canada birthday? We all need to grow up a little.

  116. Canada became a country after the British North America Act, 1867, came into effect on July 1, 1867. That is why we celebrate its natal day on July 1st, Canada Day and that is why every single piece of literature ever written about Canada state that it became a country on July 1st, 1867.

  117. Exactly, he wants to shift power to the US. Texas would be his first choice. Bush country.

  118. Here's some interesting fodder for the debate: The Great Coalition actually led to the formation of Canada according to Wiki: "The formation of this coalition on 1 June 1863 under George-Étienne Cartier and John A. Macdonald, as the colonies of the Canadas led directly to Canadian Confederation in 1867. The coalition persisted as the government of the Province of Canada until the moment of Confederation." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Coalition

    Is this Harper's idea of a "reckless, dangerous, anti-democratic" coalition or is he willing to make an exception?

  119. Here's some interesting fodder for the debate: The Great Coalition actually led to the formation of Canada according to Wiki: "The formation of this coalition on 1 June 1863 under George-Étienne Cartier and John A. Macdonald, as the colonies of the Canadas led directly to Canadian Confederation in 1867. The coalition persisted as the government of the Province of Canada until the moment of Confederation." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Coalition

    Is this Harper's idea of a "reckless, dangerous, anti-democratic" coalition or is he willing to make an exception?

    • The Liberal-Conservative-Bleu coalition only applied to the colony of Canada. This coalition was formed to expediate confederation with the other colonies of BNA so that together they could present the Americans with a united front following the Trente affair of 1861.

      This example wasn't about power or partisian politics, it was a military strategy. Its easier to gather a milita if all the parties are united.

  120. The Liberal-Conservative-Bleu coalition only applied to the colony of Canada. This coalition was formed to expediate confederation with the other colonies of BNA so that together they could present the Americans with a united front following the Trente affair of 1861.

    This example wasn't about power or partisian politics, it was a military strategy. Its easier to gather a milita if all the parties are united.

  121. No argument from me !