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Duceppe: French for without shame


 

Duceppe called Harper’s comments a “low blow” during a radio interview in Montreal…

I think it’s just unacceptable to criticize Mr. Dion’s English,” Duceppe said….

Anything that touches on the quality of Mr. Dion’s English are low blows.

Hmmm… Now where did I see… I seem to recall… Yes, here it is, thanks to alert reader ST:

[T]he Bloc leader also acknowledged Layton put on a strong performance in the English debate, but appeared to feel pity when discussing Dion.

He really had trouble with his English,” Duceppe said, shaking his head

I know, it looks like shameless hypocrisy. But maybe he just misunderstood the question.


 

Duceppe: French for without shame

  1. I don’t know – Mr. Duceppe’s pity for Mr. Dion seems pretty consistent. And I’m sure Dion appreciates it. Why else would Dion have suggested his fumbled answers on the economy were due to his poor English and/or his hearing difficulties? The important point, that Harper is so cruelly diverting attention from, is that Dion is “sure there are lots of things” the civil service will suggest he do if he becomes PM. Isn’t that the kind of leadership and action that Canadians are demanding now?

  2. Not that you seem to be one for nuance lately Andrew but there is a slight difference between a factual statement (he struggled with french; he misunderstood the question) and interpretation (he misunderstood the question and it shows he is unfit to be the PM)….

  3. Now that’s multi-dimensional chutzpah coming from Gilles “SUS-tnible DAV-lopment” Duceppe.

  4. If you think Duceppe has any actual pity for Stephane Dion, you haven’t been paying attention. He’s only defending him now in order to stoke the fires of resentment at a francophone being unjustly maligned by les autres.
    I’m not trying to let Harper off the hook for being so personal in his attacks on Dion, in this as in other matters, and I’m not trying to let Dion off the hook for his empty demagoguery on the economy. Indeed I”ve been critical of both men on precisely these points.
    But Duceppe wasn’t clucking his tongue over Dion’s English after the debate to be nice

  5. Pols have long been shameless and will say anything but what bothers me is that reporters don’t seem to call them on their b.s., except when it comes to Cons who get fact checked to death.

    The comments Harper made after seeing that clip were about how Dion has no plan and specifically said it has nothing to with his english speaking abilities but Duceppe and others are playing identity politics and the reporters seem to have run with Duceppe’s interpretation instead of actually focusing on what Harper said. It’s really irritating when the meme becomes we know what Harper said but we all know what he actually meant.

    It’s a shame that Francos still see themselves as helpless victims and under attack from Anglos. It doesn’t seem to matter that PM has been from Quebec for the past 40 years, that Quebec lieutenant is a position all governing parties must have, they take way more in equalization than give and Quebec is allowed a leeway in its affairs that no other province gets.

    Francos need to be taught some self esteem and see how glorious their culture and society is instead of thinking themselves as victims of Anglo perfidy.

  6. I’m not trying to let Harper off the hook for being so personal in his attacks on Dion…

    Why not? You ignored far worse for two years, I seem to recall.

  7. Up until the last few years, I’ve had a great deal of respect for M. Duceppe. The last few years however, he’s seemed more willing to get behind some of the more crass agendas of the separatist movement in Quebec, which, in my opinion, does more than good to their goals. I just thought I’d mention that for those who forgot the primary goal of the Bloc is separatism. I know it’s been tough to tell this campaign.

    Random Comment: Did Stephen Harper just say February 14th? HE DOESN’T KNOW WHAT MONTH IT IS! MY GOD, HOW CAN HE RUN THE COUNTRY!

  8. What’s bothering me is journalists integrity – there is none.

    When an interviewer says he will do it over and then puts this out – he should be fired.

    The real problem is our media – they have been pushing for Harper all along.

    Amount of media coverage for Harper is more than the other parties put together – Nanos has those numbers.

    Journalists that jump on the mean-spirited band wagon – oh gee, how journalistic to do a day after day after day attack on Dion, pretty much ignore Layton….because it’s all about “money” folks.

    CTV “lied” – they are not to be trusted, obviously and they been making fun of Dion since day one, been bolstering Harper from day one and Duffy even says journalists don’t bother to cover the NDP much because they are really a contender.

    C’mon – if you can’t do your job and do some investigative work and play along with this gang style attack on a man…….get another job.

    I have absolutely no respect or trust in the media anymore – it’s a joke.

    When you research and see the control big media have over you in this country – it’s frightening.

  9. The only real issue of consequence here is CTV’s journalistic malpractice. But getting the clique to focus on that is like expecting a hog to call out another one for poor hygiene.

  10. Who said that I think that Duceppe had pity….

    I am squarely taking issue with he fact that after what I, and many others, see as an abhorrent tag team by Duffy and SH you are expending most of your effort going at Duceppe who is tangential to this thing….

    And to be clear, I understand that Duceppe inserted himself in this… but, in a week, where you made clear, through a series of posts that you have no tolerance for lame-duck critiques against Harper, (what 5 or 6 posts, now)…

    an equally strong condemnation of an equally, or perhaps more, lame duck critique of MD/SH would offer a bit more balance, no?

  11. Zing!

  12. and while I can’t disagree that the opposition parties are overstating their case on the economy, I do beleive that someone whose message was ‘everything is sound’ and ‘you should buy stocks’ who a few days later is seeing stocks plummet and is leading a government that is buying back mortgages is open to some criticism.

  13. It wasn’t ignored, Ti-Guy. It was admired as tactically clever. After all, it was spun out by the smartest people in the whole world.

    Be fair.

  14. comment by Ti-Guy:

    Why not? You ignored far worse for two years, I seem to recall.

    Actually, Andrew has been harshly critical of Harper at times, right from the naming of his first cabinet on. If you actually took a break from your incessant posting of insults and personal attacks to read something once in awhile, you’d be aware of that.

  15. Calm down, AC. We’re losers. Have some empathy.

  16. I read your post at the time and again now Andrew.

    My honest interpretation is that much of what that post serves to do is to obscure your one clear line of crtique embedded it in (that ‘Duffy was way offside’) and pursuing the Duceppe issue detracts further from that.

    And most importantly The post makes no mention of SH’s use of the same footage later that night.

    Again, I would not think nearly much of it had you not posted so many times in the last few day in a manner that so clearly criticizes Dion et al for going after Harper.

    To be clear I think your writing is extremely valuable. You bring a thoughtful perspective to the fiscal and social that we get no where else in the Canadian media, I just think that in the last week or so you are somewhat off your normal mark.

  17. Get over it people! A lot of folks out west are shaking their heads at Mr Dion right now. You screwed up the interview and the opposition pounced on your mistake. Suck it up princess, you don’t go around looking for empathy and say woe is me. You say “I f***ed up, here’s the plan and you can decide on your own if it has merits. Next question!”. But no you act hurt, come up with all sorts of excuses and play the victim. If you can’t take the crap when you and your team have been dishing it out for 38 days then take your backpack and your dog Kyoto and go back to academia and leave the fight to the adults.

  18. If you actually took a break from your incessant posting of insults and personal attacks to read something once in awhile, you’d be aware of that.

    Like I’m going to take advice from someone who chose his pseudonym based on what the psych nurse calls him.

  19. Get over it people! A lot of folks out west are shaking their heads at Mr Dion right now. You screwed up the interview and the opposition pounced on your mistake. Suck it up princess, you don’t go around looking for empathy and say woe is me.

    Suck it up, princess? How old are you?

  20. “I know, it looks like shameless hypocrisy.”

    As Andrew Coyne’s observations elsewhere show, Gilles Duceppe doesn’t have a monopoly on
    this.

  21. Older than you more likely. By the way this isn’t a Dr Phil segment on Oprah, its the running of the country. Mackenzie-King never felt our pain, I doubt that Trudeau really cared about how people felt about him. Quit this woe is me crap, its very childish.

  22. Harper will be on Quebec’s most popular political show (Larocque/Lapierre) in a half-hour French interview on Sunday. The host already said he was quite anxious to see if Harper will understand all of his questions, and that he will be judged in Quebec for how billingual he is, since Dion is obviously being judged in the rest of Canada.

    Should be interesting…

  23. Quit this woe is me crap, its very childish.

    Who exactly are you hectoring and solding? My issue with this is journalistic malpractice. Most people are probably enured to Harper’s churlishness, pettiness, biliousness, although that still doesn’t mean we should like it.

  24. I just wish we didn’t have to talk about Duceppe or the Bloc or anyone interested in separation. Year after year english political pundits seem befuddled (or worse) by the fact that a Bloc or PQ candidate throws logic on it’s head in order to gain political favour with his/her staunchest supporters. Shock of shocks! Stop talking about him/her for once.

    And it amazes me to know end that the Conservatives (and the Liberals in their own strange way) find it easier to try and forge a coalition that will provide enough seats to form a majority between Western Canada Reformers and Quebec Nationalists. Are we truly so messed up a country that Canadians who are proud to be Canadian and want to keep the country united have less in common than do a portion of those Canadians and a bunch of separatists? That’s sad.

  25. Not that it matters, or will make a dime’s worth of difference, but…

    http://blog.macleans.ca/2008/09/19/being-there/
    http://blog.macleans.ca/2008/09/28/stability-is-the-new-nothing/
    http://blog.macleans.ca/2008/09/15/shorter-coyne/
    http://blog.macleans.ca/2008/09/13/black-shift/
    http://blog.macleans.ca/2008/09/12/arrrgggghhhh/
    http://blog.macleans.ca/2008/10/05/the-tories-are-in-trouble/
    http://blog.macleans.ca/2008/09/11/with-respect-unity-is-probably-not-your-strong-suit-prime-minister/
    http://blog.macleans.ca/2008/09/11/their-slip-is-showing/
    http://blog.macleans.ca/2008/09/11/dont-cut-and-run-til-you-see-the-whites-of-their-eyes/
    http://blog.macleans.ca/2008/09/09/take-that-global-warming/
    http://blog.macleans.ca/2008/09/09/plus-ca-bloody-change/
    http://blog.macleans.ca/2008/09/06/the-man-in-the-blue-sweater-vest/

    Also
    http://www.macleans.ca/canada/national/article.jsp?content=20081001_3411_3411
    http://www.macleans.ca/canada/national/article.jsp?content=20080910_115261_115261

    That’s just since September 6. Of particular note, if the subject is “ignoring” Harperite attack-dog politics, from my Sept 11 post:

    “But mau-mauing grieving fathers isn’t just a slip of the tongue: it betrays an attitude. Indeed, it lends some heft to the otherwise unspeakably silly puffin-poop business. And it’s of a piece with the other Tory missteps: the attempt to bar Elizabeth May from the debates, the war-room overkill etc.

    What’s common to all is an approach to politics: sneering, ad hominem, bullying, and, above all, directionless. Even as they dismantle the last remaining policy differences with their opponents, the Tories amp up the vicious partisanship. It’s almost like the one is replacing the other.”

  26. “Even as they dismantle the last remaining policy differences with their opponents, the Tories amp up the vicious partisanship. It’s almost like the one is replacing the other.”

    And their staunchest supporters eat it up by the shovel fulls. But even more unsettling (to me anyway) is that their support has grown since this began. It may not be a groundswell, but this version of the Conservative party is far more popular than any since the 80’s. So who are you truly angry with? Harper or the voters?

  27. The shame of the MEDIA and most journalists is they became KAPOs for Harper and the Big owners of the media.
    They did for harper what the kapo-s did for Hitler..
    Absolutely disgusting !!! Shame !!

  28. You’re right, Mr. Coyne. It’s unfair of me to accuse you of ignoring attack-style politics considering you’re of the few Conservatives who will call it out.

    But there has not been nearly enough criticism of “Conservatives behaving badly” in the last while to marginalise the coarseness and remove it from public discussion, especially seeing as how childish and utterly humourless it’s become in a culture that is appallingly adolescent.

    I hear Palin supporters are screaming openly for Obama to be assassinated at her rallies. Is this what’s coming for us?

  29. Your comparing Harper to Hitler? Are you delusional?

  30. Suck it up, princess. This is the big leagues. ;)

  31. Believe me when I say that I utterly detest Harper. However, I’m really sick of people misusing WWII and Nazi comparisons. This comes from both the right and the left. The right tries to compare every conflict to the Second World War as if that somehow is a blanket justification for using force in any case. Every new enemy “could be the next Hitler!” People on the left often use the Hitler or Nazi comparison to denigrate leaders they view as strong armed or authoritarian. The truth is the Hitler and WWII were a unique situation. We need to stop make such foolish comparisons as they just cloud the real debate about what is going on in the here and now. I think Harper is a genuinely bad person. I think he may be dangerous in some ways )people are more than welcome to disagree with me on that) but he is not another Hitler!

  32. “Francos need to be taught some self esteem and see how glorious their culture and society is instead of thinking themselves as victims of Anglo perfidy.”

    It’s a welfare state thing. No self esteem for anyone. Nothing but organized plunder followed by endless griping and moaning about who deserves the biggest share of the stolen loot.

    Bilingualism barely existed in Canada as an official controversy until the nanny state exploded in size in the 1960s. Private sector jobs and profits were trashed by taxes and regulation and government-related jobs took off as the best and safest road to wealth. Initiative and hard work became meaningless and connections and favoritism became supreme, especially in the places where people can be organized into voting blocks.

    Ask not what is the fairest way to divide stolen property. Ask yourself why it was stolen in the first place.

  33. “I’m confident the attempt of the Bloc [Québecois] to demonize me really belittles the intelligence of Quebeckers,”
    -Stephen Harper
    October 11, 2008

    You know the attacks on Stephen Harper is working when he makes a statement like that.
    Poor old Harper, he doesn’t like to be demonized.

  34. One of my earlier posts has stated that:

    “Personally I think Mr.Dion did not want to answer the question but did not know how to go about it. You see, if he would have indicated that he would not answer the question, that would have looked awfully weak under the current economic circumstances. Yet, he knew if he would answer it, any answer given could also have landed him in hot water:

    Damned if you do and damned if you don’t. Tjee, could that put Mr.Harper’s position into perspective somewhat? Fat chance!”

    Why are we discussing Duceppe’s take on this? Why are we discussing Mr.Harper’s take on this?

    It sounds to me that these two out of three can live with their answers given.

    There is only the one being out of step.

  35. For those wondering what a Kapo is (I happened to read a description this morning in a book on D-Day) see wikipedia’s article “Kapo (Concentration Camp)” and ask yourself about the subtle mind that would relate the media’s role in this election to Nazi Germany’s Kapos.

    Wow Ti-Guy, it must make you so warm and fuzzy that there’s someone else on this blog board that reached for Godwin’s Law even faster than you could.

  36. But before “the world could be turned upside down” there must have been a downturn of intelligence, methinks.

    Yes, me thinks so!

  37. Andrew C says: “Even as they dismantle the last remaining policy differences with their opponents, the Tories amp up the vicious partisanship. It’s almost like the one is replacing the other”

    Hazzard says: ” So who are you truly angry with? Harper or the voters?”

    and finally the summer-upper (although not understood by Blues Clair, the poster):

    “I’m confident the attempt of the Bloc [Québecois] to demonize me really belittles the intelligence of Quebeckers,”
    -Stephen Harper
    October 11, 2008

    Andrew C,

    You don’t think Harper has a secret wish: Perhaps one of these days, say February 14th of any given year, the public’s mind will truly be tuned in……..

  38. “I’m confident the attempt of the Bloc [Québecois] to demonize me really belittles the intelligence of Quebeckers,”
    -Stephen Harper
    October 11, 2008

    …Wow…. so did SH just say Quebeckers are smarter then Canadians?

  39. Remember when Duceppe was thinking of resigning from the BLOC and running for leadership of the PQ ? The story at the time was that Harper phoned Duceppe and told him that he would not spring a snap election on the BLOC while they were leaderless.

    I don’t expect Duceppe to show gratitude or back off on his nasty anti-Harper attacks or anything like that now. But perhaps someone in the media could ask Duceppe if that phone call from Harper actually occured, if so what was said, was Duceppe grateful at the time … and then let the story take of from there.

  40. seaandthemountains,

    “Wow…. so did SH just say Quebeckers are smarter then Canadians”

    If so: would you agree with him, in light of how the campaign has been going this far?

  41. The fact remains that french is an endangered language in canada.

  42. quebecois speratiste- French is NOT an endangered language in Quebec though, in fact it never has been. Funny someone using a name such as yours suddenly cares about the French in the rest of Canada. That is…unusual…in my experience.

  43. It would be pretty endangered if Quebec split.

  44. Hi Francien… feel like I am being baited here…

    No. I think that there is a larger segment of the population that identifies highly with SH and the CPC on a range of values and norms (e.g., less government spending, less social regulation, greater free market, etc) that feel that the SH/CPC are the only choice that they have and thus are less likely to waiver in response to what then becomes a secondary issue: character defamation as a campaign approach.

  45. sorry with the caveat that their perception may or may not hold.

  46. “What’s common to all is an approach to politics: sneering, ad hominem, bullying, and, above all, directionless. Even as they dismantle the last remaining policy differences with their opponents, the Tories amp up the vicious partisanship. It’s almost like the one is replacing the other.”

    I don’t like some of the Conservative’s tactics either, but when it comes to raw partisanship it was hard to beat Jean Chretien and Paul Martin. One of Jean Chretiens minions was so proud of his work in this area that he immortialized it in a book: “Kicking Ass in Canadian Politics.”

  47. uh, Terry, I believe what he was trying to “immortalize” was himself. And I believe he’s still trying.

  48. Okay.

    Wow. Like I just thot I would stick my turkey neck out here and say..

    Wow.

    Eh?

    Harper. What a loser. It was so easy for him to sturmabteilung this election but what does liver lips do? He challenges Quebec with his comments about arts funding. And B/ he challenges all Canadians who are used to listening to accented English.

    What a DORK. And that’s a whale penis. I know that cuz I can haz red Moby Dick. That’s Moby’s first album with the really cool cetacean samples.

  49. seaandthemountains,

    “Hi Francien… feel like I am being baited here…”

    Not to worry if your intelligence radar is up.

  50. “Not to worry if your intelligence radar is up……and running.”

    :)

  51. Two days before we vote and there’s nothing new here. Just the usual mean-spirited partisan attacks.

    Duceppe is pretty good at it, he’s bringing back votes for the block.

  52. I spoke to Steve Murphy last year when he was interviewing Peter C. Newman before a live audience in Saint John New Brunswick. Both men took swipes at Stéphane Dion on the stage during their ‘fire-side chat’. Their view was the standard conservative “Dion is not a leader” – He does not have ‘it’”. His linguistic skills were brought up for particular criticism. Speaking to Steve Murphy after the event, he reiterated his view of Dion to me with even more conviction. His dislike of Dion was palpable. I walked away from the conversation wondering how Dion could ever get a fair hearing from such a journalist – when the fierce criticism of Dion is a matter of ’style over substance and character’.

    There is no doubt in my mind that if Mr. Murphy could have linguistically confused question as trap for Dion he would have. Surely the incident would have brought sheer delight to Murphy. That CTV ensured the release and immediate distribution of the ‘outtake’ speaks for itself. “Gotcha!” – Journalistic standards are so high these days!

    Andrew is one of several exceptions. His article on Harper is right on target, piercing beyond the shadow and the disguise. Agree or disagree with Andrew Coyne, there is always substance to the conversation. One can gain traction in the conversation and the discussion can go somewhere

  53. “there is a larger segment of the population that identifies highly with SH and the CPC on a range of values and norms (e.g., less government spending, less social regulation, greater free market, etc)”

    I don’t see SH that way at all. This is a myth based on old SH speeches from his wilderness years when he actually sounded like a free marketeer, and on the ludicrous attacks aimed at SH by the other parties which for reasons of branding need to have as their biggest enemy a cold-hearted capitalist S.O.B.

    Is SH any of the the things you claim?

    He’s been spending money like a drunken you-know-what. His “tough on crime” policy is an exercise in social regulation (the majority of the people given extra-long sentences will be low-level drug-dealing schmucks caught up in police setups – this is far easier than tracking down and arresting the truly violent). Very little points to a solid commitment to free markets – it seems like every week SH or some other Tory is boasting about how they’re going to come down hard on some business or other, to protect the public from the big, bad capitalists. The copyright law sounds like a nightmare. The arctic development initiative is pure Soviet-style central planning. The Afghan war is an absurd exercise in forcing a leftie-socialist, secular democracy on a country which for the most part wants nothing to do with it.

    Last but not least is the commitment to kill the Canadian standard of living by 20-40 percent by cutting carbon emissions by an absolute 20 percent while the population grows by perhaps the same amount. As destructive and loony-left a policy as any CBC-listening flake could ever wish for.

    While limited government, etc. as you outlined could have a large audience within Canada, that audience is not susceptible to being herded into electorally-concentrated voting blocks and therefore they will never get their say at the polls. No democratic politician will ever get elected as leader of a large country like Canada unless they promote victimhood among electorally-concentrated blocks of voters and then propose massive government intervention as the remedy.

    Happy turkey day everyone. I will not be seeing you at the polling booth next week.

    P.S. Andrew – you’ve got this new blog going like a house on fire, just like the old blog. Well done.

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