Howard’s way: Ancient history lessons


The day’s Conservative rebuttal talking point seems to be that it is trivial and condescending of the Liberals to dig up “five-year-old speeches.” The great thing about the statute of political limitations is that it’s so flexible.


Howard’s way: Ancient history lessons

  1. You know what is truly shocking about this plagiarism?

    Is how it was overlooked. Australia shares a similar culture, parliamentary system, economic situation and more with Canada, and were put in the same situation as Canada back in 2003.

    Yet despite all of this, no one cared what John Howard was telling his Parliament.

    I wonder how the Liberals found this out.

  2. “I wonder how the Liberals found this out.”

    Sounds to me like we have a case of “hidden in plain sight.”

  3. Great, lets convene a panel to decide if academic misconduct has ocurred, perhaps in this forum dion won’t be so completely out of his depth.

  4. I’m sure anyone with google could find out, the speeches are not private, they are public domain. And there’s no copyright issue on political speeches, so it’s really not plagarism.

    I still don’t see the issue. Everyone knows that Harper supported going to Iraq, and it’s no secret that he admires Howard. Anyway, most political speeches are not really all that brilliant, sorry to say (i’ve written several, mostly by cobbling together stuff from all over the place as there generally is not much time to write them).
    Maybe if Harper had taken it from someone who was not a politician or someone really despicable (Osama bin Laden?) then it would make sense.

    All this will do is get the conbots to find examples of Liberal “plagarism.” I just don’t see the point.

  5. Yup, Harper supported the Iraq invasion in 2003, just like Iggy did. But Iggy supported torture, you know for ticking time bombs and things like that.

    And Iggy is now part of the big Team, you know all for one and one for all.

    And what did Stephane Dion think….well funny thing is nobody cares. So I guess that about sums up where this issue goes.

  6. Is this Stephen Harper’s Joe Biden moment? Anyway, kind of a slick move by the Liberals. Raising Harper’s stand on the Iraq war and accusing him of plagarism at the same time.
    I guess they have been busy in the Liberal war room in recent months. Probably analyzing Harper’s Reach for the Top tapes from 1976 at this moment.

  7. I agree with Sunny12 but would like to add one thing. At a time of economic crisis shouldn’t we be more concerned about that rather than 5-year old speeches about the War in Iraq or whether or not Harper hugs his children in public? (which some media sources are reporting on today)

  8. Just imagine however if the Conservatives had found out Dion plagerized parts of his dissertation. Then there would be reason to yell bloody blue murder.

  9. Well the Liberals ran into copyright issues over “Green Shift”. Maybe this is their way of getting back?

  10. Yup, Harper supported the Iraq invasion in 2003, just like Iggy did. But Iggy supported torture, you know for ticking time bombs and things like that.

    That’s actually a lie. Iggy took a painfully long time to explain why he didn’t support coercive interrogation and certainly not torture. He did support the fatuous notion that of “Empire Lite” when he was at Harvard and referring to Americans as “we,” but on the scale of ancient history, I think we all judge where that rests.

    Nice try though. You guys are great.

  11. PW has a point. But, for the sake of argument, I don’t think it’s to fine a hair to split to say that a five year old copy-and-paste issue ought to be more easily forgotten than five years of mismanaging Canada’s largest province.

  12. When did the Iraq war end, Matt?

  13. It speaks to Harper’s agenda which is not in the best interest of this country. He lifted a speech from someone who was mirroring Bush. It shows that Harper wasn’t thinking about what was best for Canada, but rather was thinking how to get Bush’s agenda working in Canada.
    THAT’S why it matters.

    Also, Harper’s lack of accountability to Canadians – refusing to fire Ritz, cancelling food inspection practices without telling the public, and now, following in lockstep with those in the world who wanted to mirror Bush. It reflects Harper’s credibility. He has none. And apparently can’t bring himself to care about Canada or Canadians.

  14. …ought to be more easily forgotten than five years of mismanaging Canada’s largest province.

    This isn’t about Jim Flaherty, Matt. Well, it might be, but we don’t know that yet.

  15. So yesterday was Black Market Monday and this is the best the Liberal Party of Canada can come up with ? They think this will resonate with Canadians worried about their jobs, their RRSP’s their futures. A political attack of monumentally pathetic proportions, as useful as farting into a hurricane.

    Clear indication of the desperation in the Liberal campaign, the Liberal Party and a knife wielding future leader of the Party.

    Whenever I see Bob Rae, it reminds me of Rae Days and my rage returns.

  16. “When did the Iraq war end, Matt?”

    But why do Canadians only care about Iraq in so much as it hurts/helps national politics?

    If we care about Darfur, shouldn’t we also have – oh, I dunno – some general humanitarian interest in Iraqis?

    When will Iraqis and Iraq be freed from the Bush-yoke so that people can help where they can without all the baggage? (Nov. 5, I guess?)

  17. Whether it’s clever or luck – this is a good way of reminding Canadians where we’d be vis-a-vis the Iraq war if SH had been in-charge at the time.

  18. So yesterday was Black Market Monday and this is the best the Liberal Party of Canada can come up with ?

    No, they can talk about more than one thing at a time. Some might even think there is some relevance in looking at how the US has managed its economy and Harper’s willingness to blindly go along with others’ policies.

  19. John D – interesting.

    Perhaps it would be easier for house Republicans to stomach writing a $700B cheque if they hadn’t already paid $600B for Iraq and Afghanistan combined.

    For the record, that’s about $5,000 per person in America or almost $15,000 per household for the two combined.

  20. “When did the Iraq war end, Matt ?”

    And how many Canadians have been killed to date in Iraq, Paul ?

    No-on, not even you, has raised the topic of Iraq in this campaign, (let alone in recent memeory), so why should we care now ?

    Given what happened yesterday in the US and Canadian markets, I think most people are more interested in the economy than in a 5-year-old speech. But I guess mentioning the economy and Bob Rae in the sentence causes a toxic reaction.

  21. “And how many Canadians have been killed to date in Iraq, Paul ?”

    Um, QED?

  22. “And how many Canadians have been killed to date in Iraq, Paul ?”

    Um, QED?

    also, FTW!

  23. How many people who died from listeria caught it during the Liberal gov’t’s years? Certainly Gerry Ritz knows, since he seems to think that’s the key answer to the crisis he’s overseeing.
    And what circumstances led to Liberals making funding changes – to respond to the scripted CONbot prattle – ?
    Just two days ago, our financial fundamentals were fine, according to our PM, or is it the Australian PM? Or Bush?
    It’s hard to keep track of a CON original thought. Kind of like playing six-degrees of Kevin Bacon, but with real pork.

  24. To the best of my knowledge, since becoming PM almost three years ago Mr Harper has not sought to have Canada join the coalition of the willing in Iraq. In other words, his views from 2003 are no more relevant that Iggy’s.

  25. Two cents, he didn’t to with Afghanistan in the works.

  26. It was Jean Chretien who committed Canada to Afghanistan and Paul Martin who made the decision to send our troops to Khandahar.

  27. PW re. Iraq war: sorry, you misunderstood me. I’m suggesting that the “plagarism” charge of Mr. Rae is stale and Kenney’s attack on Rae’s governing of Ontario isn’t because one is more significant than the other. If I understand the implication of your question correctly, it’s that Harper should still be legitimately open to critique for his flip-flop on the Iraq war issue. And fair enough. You’ve criticized him on that point directly on a number of occasions, and much of the rest of the media haven’t, and as far I’m concerned it’s fair game. That begs the question of why Rae has to attempt to bolster that critique with the plagiarism vehicle. Why not say “Harper was wrong about Iraq, is dishonest about Iraq, is two-faced about Afghanistan, and shouldn’t be trusted with our foreign policy and military commitments anymore?” I think that argument is what you’re trying to suggest, and it’s fair (I could argue the points, but whatever). But I think pointing out that Rae is making that argument in a weenie-like way is also fair.

  28. Didn’t Jack Layton recently copy word for word part of one of Barack Obama’s speeches without giving credit to Obama? I seem to remember this was discovered.

  29. Matt: Fair point. To sum up: You’re fair. I’m fair. Alles fair.

  30. Hwey Nichole = there is whole gang of them you got Dion channeling Suzuki you got Bobby R. and his little music copied well and right issue and the list goes on and on and on.

Sign in to comment.