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Ignatieff tries to get a rise out of voters


 

All through this campaign, Michael Ignatieff has taken the dual risk of speaking without a prepared text and answering many questions that haven’t been scripted from individuals who haven’t been screened and just happened to raise a hand in the crowd that’s turned out to hear him.

But this evening in Sudbury, Ont., he took an even bigger gamble, letting loose at the end of another long question-and-answer session with a Bruce Springsteen-inspired, revival tent-worthy, raspy-throated bid to rouse Canadian voters from their torpor. Some will hear it as impassioned, others as desperate.

It was hard to tell where Ignatieff was heading when he began musing aloud about Springsteen’s post-9/11 anthem “The Rising.” He made reference to its “wonderful refrain, ‘Rise up’.” (Actually, I think he’s got the wrong song; the “Rise up” refrain is from “My City of Ruins” from the same album, The Rising. But that’s beside the point.)

From mentioning the evocative phrase “rise up,” he shifted into a reflection on Stephen Harper’s various shortcomings and mistakes, and, more particularly, to what Ignatieff depicted as the strangely blasé response to it all from Canadians. Harper twice shuts down Parliament, and Canadians, Ignatieff observes, “kind of shrug.” Harper is found in contempt of that same Parliament, and Canadians “say, so what.”

Warming up, Ignatieff ran through the litany of the Bruce Carson affair, charges against Tory organizers for alleged campaign finance violations, the restrictive way Harper handles the media following him, how he dispensed with Helena Guergis, and the fresh story about Conservative attempts to have advance voting at Guelph University disallowed. “And people say,” Ignatieff lamented, “so what, it’s just all political games, who cares.”

Then he was back to The Boss. “And I kept hearing that refrain from Bruce Springsteen. Rise up.” (And louder.) “Rise up!” (And louder still.) Rise up, Canada!” He kept going as the crowd of about 300 started cheering. “Rise up! Rise up! Rise up! Rise up!”

He was feeding off the noise, the way good stump performers do. “We have got to fight here. We have got to stand and fight. This is not about me. This is not about the Liberal party. This is about the kind of democracy we hand to”—now gesturing to kids in the crowd—”this child and this child and this child. We got to rise up. We got to stand, we got to fight and we got to win. This is not about the Liberal Party of Canada. This is about the country you love. So rise up, Canada!”

It’s hard to guess what impact this might have. Depends how it plays on the TV news, I suppose. There’s also the matter of Ignatieff’s repeated references to the apparent indifference of Canadians to events before this campaign and during it—an unconventional tack. It’s dangerous in politics to point to a fault in the reaction of ordinary voters, even if that fault is framed by ostensible outrages committed by one’s political adversary.

On the other hand, injecting fervor can work for a politician in a tough campaign fight—if the stakes appear high enough to justify the emotion. So the question here is, Will voters continue to shrug and say, so what? Or will the heat of Ignatieff’s new intensity fuse his list of Tory derelictions, in the minds of at least some voters, into something more than a bunch of disconnected instances of dubious behaviour?

The post-debate polls were not looking good for the Liberals. Time is not on their side in this campaign. But it’s clear as of tonight is that Ignatieff isn’t going to coast helplessly to May 2 without trying to jolt the campaign in a different direction.


 

Ignatieff tries to get a rise out of voters

  1. Oh my. How low the esteemed professor from the hallowed Ivy League halls has sunk.

    Meanwhile, the liberals are relying on 12 year old, school paper articles to smear CPC candidates.

    I love the smell of Liberal desperation in the morning.

  2. Oh my. How low the esteemed professor from the hallowed Ivy League halls has sunk.

    Meanwhile, the liberals are relying on 12 year old, school paper articles to smear CPC candidates.

    I love the smell of Liberal desperation in the morning.

    • How about fresh articles on Mike Sona's attempted ballot box grab. We have the appropriate channels to launched a complaint to Elections Canada, yet the new sheriff in town a Young Conservative, who was former President of the Guelph Young Conservatives, storms in to demand the closure of a special ballot polling station.

      • launch* (my bad)

      • Uh, ghost, would you care to explain what a "special ballot polling station" is, and where in the Elections Canada Act or in its own Service Standards manual for student voting such an imaginary figment is authorized for post-secondary campuses? You seem pretty sure of yourself that the "special ballot polling staion" is legitimate.

        • madeyoulook, your on these boards enough to indicate you follow things political. I find it hard to believe you are not aware of Election Canada's ruling that not with standing the current practice of arranging special ballots prior to an election call the UofG special ballot met all requirements under the election act.
          But here is a link that has the EC press release. http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/inside-politics-b

          • Then why don't you start here, to see exactly where I pick apart EC's nonsense:
            http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/04/15/voter-engageme

            There is a difference between Elections Canada SAYING those votes are valid and SHOWING US where it actually says the votes are valid. I actually cite the two documents Elections Canada could point us to to justify this "sure it's legal but don't anybody dare do this again" crap. Did you find anything in those two documents to support this internally inconsistent ruling?

            Exactly. I didn't think so.

  3. He's absolutely right – most Canadians are saying "So what?" And that makes me ashamed of my compatriots.

    I hope he succeeds in lighting a fire…

  4. He's absolutely right – most Canadians are saying "So what?" And that makes me ashamed of my compatriots.

    I hope he succeeds in lighting a fire…

    • Except partisan hysterics ginned up for the sake of trying to gain power is not true passion.

      It's the stuff of a politician who supports the CPC over and over and over again in vote after vote, then, when he percieves there is no other time to gain power than the present, gins up issue after issue to cloak his power grab under the thin veil of nobility and valour.

      Well, most Canadians can appreciate that if you put the lipstick of nobility on that political pig, it still a political pig.

      So don't be ashamed of your "compatriots" for seeing behind the political partisan veneer that seems to be blinding you.

      • hmmm….i see Bruce Springsteen really got to you.

      • "Except partisan hysterics ginned up for the sake of trying to gain power is not true passion".

        You, Chet, are shameless.

        • Either that, or totally lacking in self awareness.

          • Not mutually exclusive.

    • I am a Canadian and I am asking:

      when Liberal MP Derek Lee was on the Hill at the time, but decided to stand behind the curtain instead of voting on a Liberal motion in regards to foreign aid to women in the developing world, did Mr.Ignatieff then manage to say: So what??

      • Sorry, FV, but I don't have a clue what you're talking about. Got a link to the story so I can catch up & respond with a reasonable facsimile of intelligent thought?

      • So you're complaining that he *doesn't* force his MPs to follow his every whim?

        • No, Thwim, I"m basically complaining about the media's hypocricy!

          When the likes of Liberal MP's, such as Derek Lee, are trumpeted as defenders of democracy (Lee was one of the MP's to push for the release of the Afghan detainee story) and are then excused for not voting in the House, even when they are on the Hill, smacks of hypocricy.

          It's a bit too convenient for my liking to take a selective look at Derek Lee but to find fault with everything the Conservatives do. Hypocritical behaviour isn't something I look forward to coming from the press.

          • Let's hope most Canadians see what has been happening for a very long time now, send a message to the leftist msm that their tactics will not work. The constant manipulation of the facts, and leftist spin should be all the more reason to vote Conservative. Obviously the media, especially the CBC, have agendas at play. Are they scared of being dismantled if the right get in? After being the Liberal propaganda machine for so long the damn well had better be nervous. I've said it before, make CBC and election issue, or an optional choice to fund.

  5. Except partisan hysterics ginned up for the sake of trying to gain power is not true passion.

    It's the stuff of a politician who supports the CPC over and over and over again in vote after vote, then, when he percieves there is no other time to gain power than the present, gins up issue after issue to cloak his power grab under the thin veil of nobility and valour.

    Well, most Canadians can appreciate that if you put the lipstick of nobility on that political pig, it still a political pig.

    So don't be ashamed of your "compatriots" for seeing behind the political partisan veneer that seems to be blinding you.

  6. How about fresh articles on Mike Sona's attempted ballot box grab. We have the appropriate channels to launched a complaint to Elections Canada, yet the new sheriff in town a Young Conservative, who was former President of the Guelph Young Conservatives, storms in to demand the closure of a special ballot polling station.

  7. launch* (my bad)

  8. hmmm….i see Bruce Springsteen really got to you.

  9. I think it is called his usual "shi- disturb—".
    Maybe if Michael Ignatieff put as much effort into appearing at work every day instead of only 30% of the time, he wouldn't have to worry about what other people are doing. How does he have the balls to collect a pay cheque from the Canadian Taxpayer for something he never earned. And he talks about "Ethics" and Mr. Harper. I call this another one of the Liberal thieving scams.

  10. "Except partisan hysterics ginned up for the sake of trying to gain power is not true passion".

    You, Chet, are shameless.

  11. I think it is called his usual "shi- disturb—".
    Maybe if Michael Ignatieff put as much effort into appearing at work every day instead of only 30% of the time, he wouldn't have to worry about what other people are doing. How does he have the balls to collect a pay cheque from the Canadian Taxpayer for something he never earned. And he talks about "Ethics" and Mr. Harper. I call this another one of the Liberal thieving scams.

    • Yeah. that's it.

      Is this the best craigslist can do?

      • I find it fascinating that the possibility of even one person being offended at the notion of Iggy failing to show up to vote on important matters facing Canadians (while Iggy waxes poetic about the importance of our parliament),

        is inconcieveable to some here.

        A question to my Liberal freinds here? Exactly how low have to set the bar, in order for Iggy to be considered a worthy leader?

        If he showed up for only 10 percent of the votes, would that be good? How about none? Does Iggy have no responsibility to show up vote on behalf of the constituents who voted him in to do precisely that?

        • How low? Well, Harper has been dragging that bar through the mud for a while now…

          • Then it should be easy to beat Harper. Right? Not very likely. Ignatieff had his a$$ handed to him in the debates. That was his last chance to convince Canadians that he is fit to be PM. He bombed badly.

        • Layton got the number wrong, it's 59% not 70% of the votes, and during that time, Ignatieff did the most travelling across Canada by far of any leader, which makes sense for a new leader of a party which might form the government. I would hope when Harper was a new leader he spent a lot of time travelling to all the provinces and territories, talking to Canadians and learning about their concerns, figuring out what the federal government could do to help. If you don't want a leader who does this, then don't vote for Ignatieff. But, for me, I have absolutely no problem with how Ignatieff spent his time. Layton is just dumbing down discussion of real issues, when he has been doing a lot of. Last election it was his "carbon taxes hurt people" spiel. This year it is vote attendance where he can't even get that one number right.

          • I don't find it excusable that Ignatieff missed more than half the votes in parliament. However, I do acknowledge that his job involves spending a lot of time outside Ottawa, so I'm willing to cut him some slack.

            That being said, I think part of the problem is that Ignatieff didn't even attempt to rebut this point. He completely ignored it when responding to Layton. He could have easily said "my job as opposition leader includes spending time away from Ottawa" in less than four seconds, but he didn't even bother to offer that.

            In the end, it felt like Layton cornered Ignatieff, and Ignatieff simply couldn't defend himself. I think that stuck with voters.

          • No matter the number of votes missed Latyon got his jab out and it worked. Of course Ignatieff being the neophyte he is didn't have the answer as he should have. I guessed he hadn't been rehearsed on the answer. He knew that Layton had criticized his attendance record but he didn't have the political instincts to reply effectively. It was obvious and it was embarassing.

          • And NO one seems to get it that he traveled around during SUMMER BREAK

          • Catherine,
            Your stats are right on. Jack was wrong. However I note the liberals were abstaining from non-confidence votes. Quality vs Quantity. This still sticks in the mind of many voters.
            As an aside, Mike sounds kind of angry these days. What ever happened to the Family Pack and all his freebies.

          • Whether its 59% or 70% you are avoiding the issue. Ignatieff is paid to be in the House of Commons when it is in session. That's his job. He should save his town halls and bus rides for when Parliament is not sitting.

            The only reason he ran around the country was to try and get the Liberal base engaged again and to try and convince Canadians that he would make a real leader for the country. He has failed miserably and Canadians are giving him a thumbs down. So now rather than trying to convince Canadains he has the qualities to be a leader and the policies to match he resorts to name calling and torqued rhetoric. It will not work. Trust me on that. Canadians have heard it for five years and they are not listening.

          • Yes, he missed 135 Days total and didn't pass 70% of the bills that were voted on because he wasn't there to vote.

        • No Chet…..the Libs supporters on this blog believe that Ignatieff is the second coming and will spur the electorate with his Howard Dean moment. However, the die is cast as you and I both know. Canadians have decided that they are not interested in having a visiting professor from the States as their PM. Now the question is can the NDP eat the Liberals liunch. I hope Layton keeps rising in the polls. That can only be good for the Conservatives.

      • This is what $ .10 a word gets you these days apparently.

  12. Fascinating. Ignatieff can't so much as sneeze these days without Cons instantly showing up on here to 'catapault the propaganda'

    Somebody's rattled.

  13. Fascinating. Ignatieff can't so much as sneeze these days without Cons instantly showing up on here to 'catapault the propaganda'

    Somebody's rattled.

    • If by "rattled" you mean sitting back and enjoying watching the spread between Harper and Iggy widen once again in the polls following Iggy's dismal debate performance, which performance was his last gasp at stopping Harper,

      then yes,

      I am "rattled".

      • LOL you know very well what 'rattled' means chet, so drop the comedy routine.

      • The polls have been static all campaign. Huge vote swings are entirely a figment of your imagination.

    • Look in the mirror Emily.

      • Are you over your Frank Sinatra impersonation yet, pally?

        • I ain't me Babe. I'm Sonny:)

          • Since he died after running into a tree, I'd believe it.

          • Why do you disrepect the dead. Emily??? …….excepting the current Liberal leader that now is resurrecting the near dead in JC and PM . I know its Lent but this is sooooooooooooo wrong.

          • Don't be jealous Curt. Who can Harper trot out after all?

            Mulroney? Joe Clark? Kim Campbell?

          • Would those three even be allowed in Stephen Harper's events nowadays?

          • LOL my point exactly. They don't even get along with each other.

          • Guess they just don't measure up to frauds, liars and johns in harper's special waiting room…

          • 'Guess who's coming to dinner' takes on a whole new meaning. LOL

          • Hello….I don't see Paul Martin and Jean Chretin appearing together any time soon.

          • They have done so for years.

          • Oh and Chretien and Martin are best buddies, did you notice, they were seperated, can't stand each other. Your a hypocrite Emily, and a mouthy one at that!

          • I didn't say they were best buddies….they act in a professional manner, and support the currrent leader

            As to me….yup, I'm an uppity woman….get over it.

          • The only problem is Harper doesn't need to be propped up by former politicians. The Libs tried it in the Dion campaign and it failed. It will fail again. Just the word adscam is enough to have voters turn away.

          • From something back in the 90s, and 3 PMs ago? Don't be daft.

          • And Martin trying to convince us then that he knew nothing about adscam?

            A fninace minister not knowing where the money went!! That's good, real good!

          • How many times do I have to tell you I'm not interested in your broken record of confused nonsense?

          • So, Emily, you agree then that Finance Minister Paul Martin should have known about the adscam monies?

            I mean, don't you think he was a fine Finance Minister? Wasnt' he the best!

            Of course he had known that adscam monies were being paid out. It's just that Chretien had asked him to be quiet about it.

          • You have apparently confused the finance minister of the country, with the national president of the party.

            Like I said, you talk confused nonsense

          • Please, do tell Emily. Had the idea to bribe Quebecers come from the national president of the Liberal party, had then been adopted by Chretien and had been hidden by Martin?

            And since that didn't work, the Liberal national president is now telling Ignatieff to win over Quebecers by saying that Quebecers can choose Quebec or can chooseCanada? That might work. Whadda you think?

            Pretty serious stuff, no? The most important subject of take under discussion, no??

          • Broken record of nonsense….go play it elsewhere.

          • Emily, I am just an individual who hasn't been screened and just happens to raise a hand in the crowd, asking some questions. I know Ignatieff would have approved of my asking the questions.

            You, on the other hand, confuse me. You often cry out for wanting a serious debate, and here I raise the most serious topic, namely how Liberal politicians are willing to bribe Quebecers, and now you are telling me we, as Canadians, should not talk about this?

            Don't you like playing it straight, Emily? Is that why you want me to go play elsewhere?

            Don't you want to follow your Great Leader's advice? Don't you want to answer as many questions as possible?

          • I am not interested in a 'political debate' with anyone…mistake one

            I am not interested in nonsense topics with anyone…mistake two

            I am neither a Liberal nor Ignatieff…mistake three.

            3 strikes….you're out. Ciao

          • Thank you, Emily, for telling us you are not a Liberal. I have always known you are not Ignatieff – there is only one Ignatieff, that much has always been clear.

            And since you are also informing me that you are not interested in nonsense topics, it indicates to me that we have a lot in common; I am not interested in nonsense topics with anyone either.

            That's why we should only talk about serious stuff.

            Do you consider it an insult to Canadian voters that Layton should be bypassed in favour of Ignatieff, since it has been Layton who has defended his cause for years and years. Why would the voter now line up behind a newcomer like Ignatieff who has practically taken over Layton's policy positions?

            I'd say, if you want to vote left, vote for Layton. At least he has always been the consistent one, and has lived in Canada for most of his life to promote the cause. Right, Emily?

          • ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz

    • Who would you fight with Emily if we Cons didn't show up. We allow you to get your talking points out. Too bad the regular folks aren't listening. Of course we all know they are a bunch of hicks don't we? At least that's what Libs believe in their own arrogant way.

      • It's not my purpose to 'fight' with anybody….it's a discussion site, and I was hoping for a little intelligent discussion.

        But I got stuck with Cons instead…..who can't see the forest for the partisan trees.

        • Emily, you are not interested in an intelligent debate. Everyone can see that much!

          • I'm interested in intelligent conversation with intelligent people….not in listening to partisan drivel from Cons.

          • I'm sure that's not how you meant it but it comes across like your assuming the Tories (that's the traditional Canadian label by the by) are not intelligent people. Partisanship is partisanship but it does cut both ways.

          • Well, since these are not Tories, they're neo-Cons….that's exactly how I meant it.

      • Don't flatter yourself, hollinm. Emily is happy to butt heads with just about anyone. I do mean that as a compliment, Emily.

  14. Wow! Was that really the same individual in the debate on Tuesday?

  15. Wow! Was that really the same individual in the debate on Tuesday?

    • I've listened to some of his campaign talks on video and, yes, he's much better when he has more than 2 minute segments to discuss issues.

      • That's a problem when a person prefers to give complete answers as opposed to good sound-bytes

  16. Yeah. that's it.

    Is this the best craigslist can do?

  17. If by "rattled" you mean sitting back and enjoying watching the spread between Harper and Iggy widen once again in the polls following Iggy's dismal debate performance, which performance was his last gasp at stopping Harper,

    then yes,

    I am "rattled".

  18. Look in the mirror Emily.

  19. LOL you know very well what 'rattled' means chet, so drop the comedy routine.

  20. Are you over your Frank Sinatra impersonation yet, pally?

  21. I've listened to some of his campaign talks on video and, yes, he's much better when he has more than 2 minute segments to discuss issues.

  22. I find it fascinating that the possibility of even one person being offended at the notion of Iggy failing to show up to vote on important matters facing Canadians (while Iggy waxes poetic about the importance of our parliament),

    is inconcieveable to some here.

    A question to my Liberal freinds here? Exactly how low have to set the bar, in order for Iggy to be considered a worthy leader?

    If he showed up for only 10 percent of the votes, would that be good? How about none? Does Iggy have no responsibility to show up vote on behalf of the constituents who voted him in to do precisely that?

  23. Is it an odd reality that Iggy is talks about threats to democracy during an ELECTION. Maybe that's why these things are not resonating. If their platform was not so left wing it may have been better for them.
    Besides Iggy may be PM even if he loses so its moot. At some point media such as my gracious hosts need to start asking Iggy what they might do with him as PM. The media asked Harper about more troops in Libya for example. A substantial question. Now what about Iggy and Layton?

  24. Is it an odd reality that Iggy is talks about threats to democracy during an ELECTION. Maybe that's why these things are not resonating. If their platform was not so left wing it may have been better for them.
    Besides Iggy may be PM even if he loses so its moot. At some point media such as my gracious hosts need to start asking Iggy what they might do with him as PM. The media asked Harper about more troops in Libya for example. A substantial question. Now what about Iggy and Layton?

  25. Yes, pure genius for Ignatieff to quote Bruce "Born in the USA" Springsteen to evoke Barack Obama's "fired up". Is he even trying to win this? We want laughter again, we want heartbeat, we want madness to end…none of this could have found its way into his speech?

  26. Yes, pure genius for Ignatieff to quote Bruce "Born in the USA" Springsteen to evoke Barack Obama's "fired up". Is he even trying to win this? We want laughter again, we want heartbeat, we want madness to end…none of this could have found its way into his speech?

  27. How low? Well, Harper has been dragging that bar through the mud for a while now…

  28. Notwithstanding Iggy's drop in support among some important voting blocks,

    I hear he as the "pro-truancy" vote locked up.

    Truants suffer silently in our society and its important to have a leader who really speaks to their needs, who understands what its like to show up for work 30% of the time,

    who shows PASSION, for talking about working, while not actually working.

    It's about time we have a leader who leads by the action….of…..inaction and not mere words.

  29. Notwithstanding Iggy's drop in support among some important voting blocks,

    I hear he as the "pro-truancy" vote locked up.

    Truants suffer silently in our society and its important to have a leader who really speaks to their needs, who understands what its like to show up for work 30% of the time,

    who shows PASSION, for talking about working, while not actually working.

    It's about time we have a leader who leads by the action….of…..inaction and not mere words.

    • No talking of a forming a majority now I notice, chet. What do you think went wrong with Harper's campaign?

      • Harper will gain a majority plus 10 seats.

        If you pry yourself away from the useless hysterics in the media and focus on what's happening on the ground in the 905 region, several Liberal ridings are considered all but lost. He'll likely gain several seats in Ontario, a few in BC, a few in Atlantic Canada, and he'll pick up two more in Quebec in the "regions" …at least.

        Majority plus 10 seats give or take one or two either way.

        • Funny, not even the polls you quote so often show anything like that.

          What are you using for mix in the Koolaid? More koolaid?

          • I would remind you that Chretien won an election with 38% of the popular vote. So depending on the turnout and vote splits there may well be a Conservative majority in the works. Too bad. So Sad.

          • Or he might now….don't count on polls right now

        • He's looking at about 120 now, I think, depending on how Quebec votes.

          • Yeah,

            Judging by the headlines, Libeals must be picking up seats all over the place: in the West, in Ontario, out in BC…..let's save this little discussion and compare it to reality in three weeks, and see how the media reportage compared to what actually happened.

            Rob Ford anyone?

          • threehundredeight.com 152 today. 120 would be absolute worse case scenario involving a total collapse, perhaps with video of Harper snorting cocaine while kicking puppies.

        • Chet…..don't tell Liberals the truth. It may force them to leave their fairytale world that they have created for themselves.

          The Libs should read Chantal Hebert's column today. She says that the Libs are going to get a "walloping" in Quebec.

  30. Layton got the number wrong, it's 59% not 70% of the votes, and during that time, Ignatieff did the most travelling across Canada by far of any leader, which makes sense for a new leader of a party which might form the government. I would hope when Harper was a new leader he spent a lot of time travelling to all the provinces and territories, talking to Canadians and learning about their concerns, figuring out what the federal government could do to help. If you don't want a leader who does this, then don't vote for Ignatieff. But, for me, I have absolutely no problem with how Ignatieff spent his time. Layton is just dumbing down discussion of real issues, when he has been doing a lot of. Last election it was his "carbon taxes hurt people" spiel. This year it is vote attendance where he can't even get that one number right.

  31. This is what $ .10 a word gets you these days apparently.

  32. No talking of a forming a majority now I notice, chet. What do you think went wrong with Harper's campaign?

  33. Harper will gain a majority plus 10 seats.

    If you pry yourself away from the useless hysterics in the media and focus on what's happening on the ground in the 905 region, several Liberal ridings are considered all but lost. He'll likely gain several seats in Ontario, a few in BC, a few in Atlantic Canada, and he'll pick up two more in Quebec in the "regions" …at least.

    Majority plus 10 seats give or take one or two either way.

  34. I don't find it excusable that Ignatieff missed more than half the votes in parliament. However, I do acknowledge that his job involves spending a lot of time outside Ottawa, so I'm willing to cut him some slack.

    That being said, I think part of the problem is that Ignatieff didn't even attempt to rebut this point. He completely ignored it when responding to Layton. He could have easily said "my job as opposition leader includes spending time away from Ottawa" in less than four seconds, but he didn't even bother to offer that.

    In the end, it felt like Layton cornered Ignatieff, and Ignatieff simply couldn't defend himself. I think that stuck with voters.

  35. Catherine,
    Your stats are right on. Jack was wrong. However I note the liberals were abstaining from non-confidence votes. Quality vs Quantity. This still sticks in the mind of many voters.
    As an aside, Mike sounds kind of angry these days. What ever happened to the Family Pack and all his freebies.

  36. Funny, not even the polls you quote so often show anything like that.

    What are you using for mix in the Koolaid? More koolaid?

  37. Political leader Ignatieff is learning on the fly.

    Learning that theories are different from practice.

    Do we really have to remind the opposition parties that it was them mostly who were going after Helena and Rahim so visciously to begin with?

    Has it ever dawned on Mr.Ignatieff that if Harper had not acted in the case, the opposition parties would have pushed and pushed untill Harper would have done something?

    It had been the opposition on their ongoing fishing expeditions which stirred up the Helena and Rahim affair. All kind of things were insinuated by the opposition parties and now Ignatieff wants us to believe that he had no part in that sorry affair? The average voter knows better. The average voter knows that there is a difference between being theoretical about things or the need for being practical within the real world. Apparently, the professor hasn't quite figured it out, yet. But over time he will, just like Harper had to learn over time.

  38. Political leader Ignatieff is learning on the fly.

    Learning that theories are different from practice.

    Do we really have to remind the opposition parties that it was them mostly who were going after Helena and Rahim so visciously to begin with?

    Has it ever dawned on Mr.Ignatieff that if Harper had not acted in the case, the opposition parties would have pushed and pushed untill Harper would have done something?

    It had been the opposition on their ongoing fishing expeditions which stirred up the Helena and Rahim affair. All kind of things were insinuated by the opposition parties and now Ignatieff wants us to believe that he had no part in that sorry affair? The average voter knows better. The average voter knows that there is a difference between being theoretical about things or the need for being practical within the real world. Apparently, the professor hasn't quite figured it out, yet. But over time he will, just like Harper had to learn over time.

    • FV,
      I believe your comment hits the nail right on the head. Well done.

      • Thank you, Curt.

        For me things can be summed up as follows:

        I have nothing whatsoever against Mr.Ignatieff. He is an intelligent man and could very well serve Canada to the best of his abilities one day. But that time is not now. Ignatieff has not been on the job long enough to understand Canada and Canadian politics, and to understand politicking in general. He still seems to think that things in Canada are as simple as they have been for the Liberal party decades ago. That time has passed.

        I believe Harper deserves to prove himself in a majority government setting. There is a lot to be said about his actions within a minority government but if he could prove to Canadians that his vision for Canada could be good once he were to form a majority government, then we would have formed a real picture about the man. If Canada does not like Harper in a majority setting, then the next election will turf him and the Conservatives from power.

        Men like Chretien are not the only ones who have visions for this country. And it's not as if Chretien's 3 majorities had produced some things spectacular. Perhaps Harper will not produce anything spectacular either, but I think he should at least be given the chance. He's worked long and hard under difficult political conditions.

        And last but not least: my hope is that within a majority setting, the BQ can be dealt with in one way or another. It is wrong for our federation the way a provincial/separatist party is allowed to make a mess out of our federal system. Doing away with party subsidies is a good start, but hopefully a majority government can go further than that, by implementing some measures which will be able to better protect the well being of our Canadian federation. It is simply wrong to have the BQ be the cause of minority governments more likely than not, to then be the party which will have an ultimate say over the direction this country is to take federally. Things must change, one way or another, and sooner rather than later. For all our sake.

        • Well said.

          • modster99, I don't know how to take two compliments in a row. How does one react to positives if one is so used to getting mostly negative responses?

            But thanks all the same.

            (I was not born in Canada, but I am a very proud Canadian. I remember when going to school in Holland, and during geography lessons, when north America was pointed out, I was always drawn to Canada even then. I had uncles, aunts and cousins living in Canada, and that way we always had contact with Canada. Also, my mother was a young adult during the second world war and she has always spoken very kindly of the Canadians. Canada has such great potential. Canada's potential is unimaginable in how far it could reach. Not only within but by being strong and united and that way being able to reach out to the world at large. In order to reach out to the world at large, we need to be able to stand as a strong Canada first. No doubt about that in my mind.)

            :)

          • You are a model Canadian, FVerhoeven. I and many others enjoy your thoughtful insight. Don't let the lowest common denominator discourage you – keep up the good work!

    • Until Harper would have done something? You mean like he did with Oda?

      Harper's quite capable of standing up to the opposition for anything less than losing power.

  39. FV,
    I believe your comment hits the nail right on the head. Well done.

  40. I ain't me Babe. I'm Sonny:)

  41. Since he died after running into a tree, I'd believe it.

  42. If any of you had anything real to say we would be talking about the message not the messanger. contempt of parliament – parliament is to Canadian democracy what jeruseleum is to israelis,the golden temple to sikhs , Mecca to muslims and the church in rome is to christians -Would you really want the pope their if He did not respect or believe in it ? Wake up this is bigger than $500 in tax credits. Treatment of Geurgis , blocking release of afhghan detainees files until forced to -Auditor general an independant body – ignoring her or possibly even forcing her to change her report , Limiting access to his rallies – I could go on and on – Its a disturbing pattern – Do you really think He could not have worked with such a weak opposition – disenfranchised pennyless liberals who two elections in row had no money to defend their leaders – two highly accompolished men who have become laughing stocks – Remeber from high school this kind of bully does not seem bad until He does it you – So helena thought? Name one dearly held canadian institution He does not want to reform ?

  43. If any of you had anything real to say we would be talking about the message not the messanger. contempt of parliament – parliament is to Canadian democracy what jeruseleum is to israelis,the golden temple to sikhs , Mecca to muslims and the church in rome is to christians -Would you really want the pope their if He did not respect or believe in it ? Wake up this is bigger than $500 in tax credits. Treatment of Geurgis , blocking release of afhghan detainees files until forced to -Auditor general an independant body – ignoring her or possibly even forcing her to change her report , Limiting access to his rallies – I could go on and on – Its a disturbing pattern – Do you really think He could not have worked with such a weak opposition – disenfranchised pennyless liberals who two elections in row had no money to defend their leaders – two highly accompolished men who have become laughing stocks – Remeber from high school this kind of bully does not seem bad until He does it you – So helena thought? Name one dearly held canadian institution He does not want to reform ?

    • What Harper's done really can't be defended, yet it's important to remember the context and if we're talking about parliament then that context falls right on the opposition parties. Has parliament become more partisan, sure but it takes two (or four) to tango. There is a case to be made that the currently questioned Conservative tactics were adopted because the opposition is quite willing to spin any problem from a solvable issue to a thing worthy of an election. So the Tories reacts stupidity and it becomes a thing worthy of an election. I hear it argued that it's the opposition's job to make political such issues, and maybe that's what we've come to, but it shouldn't be the case. Parliament should do its damndest to work well together, and to pass legislation that best fits this country in its entirety. From the start of the Conservatives taking power the Liberals haven't been fulfilling their duty in that respect, and now here we stand. We just had a minority government, which means if we wish to hold the executive branch in contempt we should hold the legislative branch in that same contempt. If you want to talk the talk then you should probably walk it as well, and that's the issue the Grits face. Too much hypocrisy and not enough solutions means that it doesn't matter if the Tories are becoming exactly what they went to parliament to fight, because as far as the general population is concerned the Grits are already there. So enough of the condescending “rise up”. If the Liberals want to present themselves as the democratic reform party then they need to tell the voters how they're going to make it so instead of pointing to the things we all already know about Harper. He may be part of the problem but so are all the parties and the MPs who hide behind them.

  44. Thank you, Curt.

    For me things can be summed up as follows:

    I have nothing whatsoever against Mr.Ignatieff. He is an intelligent man and could very well serve Canada to the best of his abilities one day. But that time is not now. Ignatieff has not been on the job long enough to understand Canada and Canadian politics, and to understand politicking in general. He still seems to think that things in Canada are as simple as they have been for the Liberal party decades ago. That time has passed.

    I believe Harper deserves to prove himself in a majority government setting. There is a lot to be said about his actions within a minority government but if he could prove to Canadians that his vision for Canada could be good once he were to form a majority government, then we would have formed a real picture about the man. If Canada does not like Harper in a majority setting, then the next election will turf him and the Conservatives from power.

    Men like Chretien are not the only ones who have visions for this country. And it's not as if Chretien's 3 majorities had produced some things spectacular. Perhaps Harper will not produce anything spectacular either, but I think he should at least be given the chance. He's worked long and hard under difficult political conditions.

    And last but not least: my hope is that within a majority setting, the BQ can be dealt with in one way or another. It is wrong for our federation the way a provincial/separatist party is allowed to make a mess out of our federal system. Doing away with party subsidies is a good start, but hopefully a majority government can go further than that, by implementing some measures which will be able to better protect the well being of our Canadian federation. It is simply wrong to have the BQ be the cause of minority governments more likely than not, to then be the party which will have an ultimate say over the direction this country is to take federally. Things must change, one way or another, and sooner rather than later. For all our sake.

  45. Uh, ghost, would you care to explain what a "special ballot polling station" is, and where in the Elections Canada Act or in its own Service Standards manual for student voting such an imaginary figment is authorized for post-secondary campuses? You seem pretty sure of yourself that the "special ballot polling staion" is legitimate.

  46. Well said.

  47. modster99, I don't know how to take two compliments in a row. How does one react to positives if one is so used to getting mostly negative responses?

    But thanks all the same.

    (I was not born in Canada, but I am a very proud Canadian. I remember when going to school in Holland, and during geography lessons, when north America was pointed out, I was always drawn to Canada even then. I had uncles, aunts and cousins living in Canada, and that way we always had contact with Canada. Also, my mother was a young adult during the second world war and she has always spoken very kindly of the Canadians. Canada has such great potential. Canada's potential is unimaginable in how far it could reach. Not only within but by being strong and united and that way being able to reach out to the world at large. In order to reach out to the world at large, we need to be able to stand as a strong Canada first. No doubt about that in my mind.)

    :)

  48. He's looking at about 120 now, I think, depending on how Quebec votes.

  49. Why do you disrepect the dead. Emily??? …….excepting the current Liberal leader that now is resurrecting the near dead in JC and PM . I know its Lent but this is sooooooooooooo wrong.

  50. Don't be jealous Curt. Who can Harper trot out after all?

    Mulroney? Joe Clark? Kim Campbell?

  51. It has occurred to me that participation in the democratic process might not be something a sizable minority of Canadians actually want. In all seriousness, this could be the key to electoral success for some time to come. What we are seeing is a new alliance – The Reform + Indifference Alliance. The conservative faction has gained the tacit support of those that are indifferent to who does the governing.

    The Indifferent Anti-party actually resents begin told to get off their duffs, which is why Mr. Ignatieff is likely to loose. Those people that are actively involved have already chosen sides. At this time, those that are involved are slightly more in the Conservative camp. Calling frequent elections is irritating the Indifferents leading to a decreasing pool of participants that are likely to swing. The Liberal Party won`t be able to form a government because the Bloc is, well, blocking them from their traditional seat taking grounds.

  52. It has occurred to me that participation in the democratic process might not be something a sizable minority of Canadians actually want. In all seriousness, this could be the key to electoral success for some time to come. What we are seeing is a new alliance – The Reform + Indifference Alliance. The conservative faction has gained the tacit support of those that are indifferent to who does the governing.

    The Indifferent Anti-party actually resents begin told to get off their duffs, which is why Mr. Ignatieff is likely to loose. Those people that are actively involved have already chosen sides. At this time, those that are involved are slightly more in the Conservative camp. Calling frequent elections is irritating the Indifferents leading to a decreasing pool of participants that are likely to swing. The Liberal Party won`t be able to form a government because the Bloc is, well, blocking them from their traditional seat taking grounds.

  53. I am a Canadian and I am asking:

    when Liberal MP Derek Lee was on the Hill at the time, but decided to stand behind the curtain instead of voting on a Liberal motion in regards to foreign aid to women in the developing world, did Mr.Ignatieff then manage to say: So what??

  54. Sorry, FV, but I don't have a clue what you're talking about. Got a link to the story so I can catch up & respond with a reasonable facsimile of intelligent thought?

  55. You are a model Canadian, FVerhoeven. I and many others enjoy your thoughtful insight. Don't let the lowest common denominator discourage you – keep up the good work!

  56. Would those three even be allowed in Stephen Harper's events nowadays?

  57. LOL my point exactly. They don't even get along with each other.

  58. Did he "pay you to say this"??

  59. Did he "pay you to say this"??

  60. Either that, or totally lacking in self awareness.

  61. But according to the website HowdTheyVote.ca, 29 MPs missed more than 50 days of the current session of Parliament,( all but nine ) of them Liberals.

    Liberal Leader MICHAEL IGNATIEFF ( absent 135 times ), the top absentee MP according to the non-partisan website, while Bloc Quebecois member Francine Lalonde missed 113 days and Liberal backbencher Keith Martin 102.

    Liberal Leader MICHAEL IGNATIEFF was ABSENT ( 135 times ), the top absentee MP according to the non-partisan website, while Bloc Quebecois member Francine Lalonde missed 113 days and Liberal backbencher Keith Martin 102.

  62. The polls have been static all campaign. Huge vote swings are entirely a figment of your imagination.

  63. But according to the website HowdTheyVote.ca, 29 MPs missed more than 50 days of the current session of Parliament,( all but nine ) of them Liberals.

    Liberal Leader MICHAEL IGNATIEFF ( absent 135 times ), the top absentee MP according to the non-partisan website, while Bloc Quebecois member Francine Lalonde missed 113 days and Liberal backbencher Keith Martin 102.

    Liberal Leader MICHAEL IGNATIEFF was ABSENT ( 135 times ), the top absentee MP according to the non-partisan website, while Bloc Quebecois member Francine Lalonde missed 113 days and Liberal backbencher Keith Martin 102.

    • And he was present for more time than Stephen Harper in every other session.

  64. Guess they just don't measure up to frauds, liars and johns in harper's special waiting room…

  65. 'Guess who's coming to dinner' takes on a whole new meaning. LOL

  66. Yeah,

    Judging by the headlines, Libeals must be picking up seats all over the place: in the West, in Ontario, out in BC…..let's save this little discussion and compare it to reality in three weeks, and see how the media reportage compared to what actually happened.

    Rob Ford anyone?

  67. So what. We trust this guy because he gives personal paraphrase meaning to a song? I do applaud Ignatieff speaking without a teleprompter everywhere and answering uncensored questions.
    What I really want is for the Party's to let their candidates speak without a script and puppet wires. Both the Liberal and Conservative runners here have been unduly interfered with by the hacks imposing the spin instead of allow them to interact with voters and answer intelligibly without spouting the Party .ca hot-line.

  68. So what. We trust this guy because he gives personal paraphrase meaning to a song? I do applaud Ignatieff speaking without a teleprompter everywhere and answering uncensored questions.
    What I really want is for the Party's to let their candidates speak without a script and puppet wires. Both the Liberal and Conservative runners here have been unduly interfered with by the hacks imposing the spin instead of allow them to interact with voters and answer intelligibly without spouting the Party .ca hot-line.

  69. Iggy looks and sounds desperate, although the polls are not moving much, there is alot of anger over this unesessary waste of a $300 million dollar election and he is going to get spanked for forcing it, this is the sleeper issue in this ridiculous campaign about nothing, gottcha and Liberal outrage of the day, and the media has enabled this nonsense.

    Iggy is toast on May 2nd

  70. Iggy looks and sounds desperate, although the polls are not moving much, there is alot of anger over this unesessary waste of a $300 million dollar election and he is going to get spanked for forcing it, this is the sleeper issue in this ridiculous campaign about nothing, gottcha and Liberal outrage of the day, and the media has enabled this nonsense.

    Iggy is toast on May 2nd

  71. Of course like all good Liberals Ignatieff thinks Canadians are stupid and as Geddes says in a torper. Could it be that Canadians know the games being played by the opposition parties? Could it be that Canadians know that for five years the opposition have been trying in vain to create faux scandals? Could it be that Canadians are not interested in a carpetbagger who shows up on their doorsteps and says he is back to become Prime Minister. Now what do you hicks not understand. I am the great Russian Count Ignatieff. I am here to save you from the hordes the occupy the government benches. Right. No one is buying that piece of malarky.

  72. Of course like all good Liberals Ignatieff thinks Canadians are stupid and as Geddes says in a torper. Could it be that Canadians know the games being played by the opposition parties? Could it be that Canadians know that for five years the opposition have been trying in vain to create faux scandals? Could it be that Canadians are not interested in a carpetbagger who shows up on their doorsteps and says he is back to become Prime Minister. Now what do you hicks not understand. I am the great Russian Count Ignatieff. I am here to save you from the hordes the occupy the government benches. Right. No one is buying that piece of malarky.

  73. No Chet…..the Libs supporters on this blog believe that Ignatieff is the second coming and will spur the electorate with his Howard Dean moment. However, the die is cast as you and I both know. Canadians have decided that they are not interested in having a visiting professor from the States as their PM. Now the question is can the NDP eat the Liberals liunch. I hope Layton keeps rising in the polls. That can only be good for the Conservatives.

  74. Then it should be easy to beat Harper. Right? Not very likely. Ignatieff had his a$$ handed to him in the debates. That was his last chance to convince Canadians that he is fit to be PM. He bombed badly.

  75. Whether its 59% or 70% you are avoiding the issue. Ignatieff is paid to be in the House of Commons when it is in session. That's his job. He should save his town halls and bus rides for when Parliament is not sitting.

    The only reason he ran around the country was to try and get the Liberal base engaged again and to try and convince Canadians that he would make a real leader for the country. He has failed miserably and Canadians are giving him a thumbs down. So now rather than trying to convince Canadains he has the qualities to be a leader and the policies to match he resorts to name calling and torqued rhetoric. It will not work. Trust me on that. Canadians have heard it for five years and they are not listening.

  76. No matter the number of votes missed Latyon got his jab out and it worked. Of course Ignatieff being the neophyte he is didn't have the answer as he should have. I guessed he hadn't been rehearsed on the answer. He knew that Layton had criticized his attendance record but he didn't have the political instincts to reply effectively. It was obvious and it was embarassing.

  77. Who would you fight with Emily if we Cons didn't show up. We allow you to get your talking points out. Too bad the regular folks aren't listening. Of course we all know they are a bunch of hicks don't we? At least that's what Libs believe in their own arrogant way.

  78. The only problem is Harper doesn't need to be propped up by former politicians. The Libs tried it in the Dion campaign and it failed. It will fail again. Just the word adscam is enough to have voters turn away.

  79. Hello….I don't see Paul Martin and Jean Chretin appearing together any time soon.

  80. Chet…..don't tell Liberals the truth. It may force them to leave their fairytale world that they have created for themselves.

    The Libs should read Chantal Hebert's column today. She says that the Libs are going to get a "walloping" in Quebec.

  81. I would remind you that Chretien won an election with 38% of the popular vote. So depending on the turnout and vote splits there may well be a Conservative majority in the works. Too bad. So Sad.

  82. Yes, he missed 135 Days total and didn't pass 70% of the bills that were voted on because he wasn't there to vote.

  83. It's not my purpose to 'fight' with anybody….it's a discussion site, and I was hoping for a little intelligent discussion.

    But I got stuck with Cons instead…..who can't see the forest for the partisan trees.

  84. From something back in the 90s, and 3 PMs ago? Don't be daft.

  85. They have done so for years.

  86. Or he might now….don't count on polls right now

  87. hollinm thinks Canadians are stupid if he thinks they will believe all the barnyard byproduct that the Conservatives attack ads. have been spinning for almost 2 years now. What is more – to quote the Howard Beale Character in Network – they are "getting mad as hell (at them) and aren't going to take them (or listen to them) any more".
    they want facts – that Harper is desparately short of – because all of his arguments are spun out of at best half truths – his numbers don't add up – he's hiding the facts on slimy decisions coming down from his office like sending Afghani detainees to be tortured – and to be implemented by a Canadian General who thinks Afghanis are "scumbags" – expect to see the slide in Harper's teflon coating as Canadians get mad!

  88. hollinm thinks Canadians are stupid if he thinks they will believe all the barnyard byproduct that the Conservatives attack ads. have been spinning for almost 2 years now. What is more – to quote the Howard Beale Character in Network – they are "getting mad as hell (at them) and aren't going to take them (or listen to them) any more".
    they want facts – that Harper is desparately short of – because all of his arguments are spun out of at best half truths – his numbers don't add up – he's hiding the facts on slimy decisions coming down from his office like sending Afghani detainees to be tortured – and to be implemented by a Canadian General who thinks Afghanis are "scumbags" – expect to see the slide in Harper's teflon coating as Canadians get mad!

    • Silly Wabbit , IGGY is finished on May, the Liberal genious who forced this unecessary , wasteful $300 million dollar elction on so called ethics is bringing out the Father of the Mother of all Liberal Corruption Scandals Jean Chretien!

      Say goodnight Wabbit its over

  89. madeyoulook, your on these boards enough to indicate you follow things political. I find it hard to believe you are not aware of Election Canada's ruling that not with standing the current practice of arranging special ballots prior to an election call the UofG special ballot met all requirements under the election act.
    But here is a link that has the EC press release. http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/inside-politics-b

  90. Don't flatter yourself, hollinm. Emily is happy to butt heads with just about anyone. I do mean that as a compliment, Emily.

  91. threehundredeight.com 152 today. 120 would be absolute worse case scenario involving a total collapse, perhaps with video of Harper snorting cocaine while kicking puppies.

  92. Silly Wabbit , IGGY is finished on May, the Liberal genious who forced this unecessary , wasteful $300 million dollar elction on so called ethics is bringing out the Father of the Mother of all Liberal Corruption Scandals Jean Chretien!

    Say goodnight Wabbit its over

  93. Terrible Springsteen album – stick to Nebraska, man, or Darness at the Edge of Town – if need to go current maybe, maybe The Ghost of Tom Joad (or is that NDP territory)

  94. Terrible Springsteen album – stick to Nebraska, man, or Darness at the Edge of Town – if need to go current maybe, maybe The Ghost of Tom Joad (or is that NDP territory)

  95. If I was Harper, I would counter with a speech in a toolshed or barn with some outlaw country – maybe Okie from Muskogee

  96. If I was Harper, I would counter with a speech in a toolshed or barn with some outlaw country – maybe Okie from Muskogee

  97. I don't know Bruce Springsteen.

    Unfortunately, however, I have an uber-cheesy medley of Parachute Club and The Housemartins playing in my head now.

  98. I don't know Bruce Springsteen.

    Unfortunately, however, I have an uber-cheesy medley of Parachute Club and The Housemartins playing in my head now.

    • Yep…Iggy don't know squat about Canadian culture. PC's "Rise Up" has been used by the NDP for years.

      Ignatieff's touchstones are American, not Canadian. He's trotted out Dylan and Springsteen so far. No Canadian roots in this guy.

  99. Yep…Iggy don't know squat about Canadian culture. PC's "Rise Up" has been used by the NDP for years.

    Ignatieff's touchstones are American, not Canadian. He's trotted out Dylan and Springsteen so far. No Canadian roots in this guy.

  100. Not mutually exclusive.

  101. So you're complaining that he *doesn't* force his MPs to follow his every whim?

  102. That's a problem when a person prefers to give complete answers as opposed to good sound-bytes

  103. Until Harper would have done something? You mean like he did with Oda?

    Harper's quite capable of standing up to the opposition for anything less than losing power.

  104. And he was present for more time than Stephen Harper in every other session.

  105. No, Thwim, I"m basically complaining about the media's hypocricy!

    When the likes of Liberal MP's, such as Derek Lee, are trumpeted as defenders of democracy (Lee was one of the MP's to push for the release of the Afghan detainee story) and are then excused for not voting in the House, even when they are on the Hill, smacks of hypocricy.

    It's a bit too convenient for my liking to take a selective look at Derek Lee but to find fault with everything the Conservatives do. Hypocritical behaviour isn't something I look forward to coming from the press.

  106. And Martin trying to convince us then that he knew nothing about adscam?

    A fninace minister not knowing where the money went!! That's good, real good!

  107. Emily, you are not interested in an intelligent debate. Everyone can see that much!

  108. How many times do I have to tell you I'm not interested in your broken record of confused nonsense?

  109. So, Emily, you agree then that Finance Minister Paul Martin should have known about the adscam monies?

    I mean, don't you think he was a fine Finance Minister? Wasnt' he the best!

    Of course he had known that adscam monies were being paid out. It's just that Chretien had asked him to be quiet about it.

  110. Springsteen? Ignatieff don't know the Boss, he knows opera.

  111. Springsteen? Ignatieff don't know the Boss, he knows opera.

  112. I'm interested in intelligent conversation with intelligent people….not in listening to partisan drivel from Cons.

  113. You have apparently confused the finance minister of the country, with the national president of the party.

    Like I said, you talk confused nonsense

  114. Please, do tell Emily. Had the idea to bribe Quebecers come from the national president of the Liberal party, had then been adopted by Chretien and had been hidden by Martin?

    And since that didn't work, the Liberal national president is now telling Ignatieff to win over Quebecers by saying that Quebecers can choose Quebec or can chooseCanada? That might work. Whadda you think?

    Pretty serious stuff, no? The most important subject of take under discussion, no??

  115. Broken record of nonsense….go play it elsewhere.

  116. Emily, I am just an individual who hasn't been screened and just happens to raise a hand in the crowd, asking some questions. I know Ignatieff would have approved of my asking the questions.

    You, on the other hand, confuse me. You often cry out for wanting a serious debate, and here I raise the most serious topic, namely how Liberal politicians are willing to bribe Quebecers, and now you are telling me we, as Canadians, should not talk about this?

    Don't you like playing it straight, Emily? Is that why you want me to go play elsewhere?

    Don't you want to follow your Great Leader's advice? Don't you want to answer as many questions as possible?

  117. I am not interested in a 'political debate' with anyone…mistake one

    I am not interested in nonsense topics with anyone…mistake two

    I am neither a Liberal nor Ignatieff…mistake three.

    3 strikes….you're out. Ciao

  118. Thank you, Emily, for telling us you are not a Liberal. I have always known you are not Ignatieff – there is only one Ignatieff, that much has always been clear.

    And since you are also informing me that you are not interested in nonsense topics, it indicates to me that we have a lot in common; I am not interested in nonsense topics with anyone either.

    That's why we should only talk about serious stuff.

    Do you consider it an insult to Canadian voters that Layton should be bypassed in favour of Ignatieff, since it has been Layton who has defended his cause for years and years. Why would the voter now line up behind a newcomer like Ignatieff who has practically taken over Layton's policy positions?

    I'd say, if you want to vote left, vote for Layton. At least he has always been the consistent one, and has lived in Canada for most of his life to promote the cause. Right, Emily?

  119. ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz

  120. Then why don't you start here, to see exactly where I pick apart EC's nonsense:
    http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/04/15/voter-engageme

    There is a difference between Elections Canada SAYING those votes are valid and SHOWING US where it actually says the votes are valid. I actually cite the two documents Elections Canada could point us to to justify this "sure it's legal but don't anybody dare do this again" crap. Did you find anything in those two documents to support this internally inconsistent ruling?

    Exactly. I didn't think so.

  121. Is it just me or is it strikingly odd that a man who has been attacked so much for living outside of Canada, calling America "his country" and telling a reporter he would vote in the 2004 U.S. election would use an American song by an American singer about an American tragedy as his rallying cry? If he had this brilliant idea in his head to get people to "rise up" couldn't he at least fake it a bit and say "I'm reminded of that Parachute Club classic…?"

    It's not good politics to give your opponents or the public any opportunity to ridicule you. Makes me wonder who is actually running this man's campaign and why they are starting to crack.

  122. Is it just me or is it strikingly odd that a man who has been attacked so much for living outside of Canada, calling America "his country" and telling a reporter he would vote in the 2004 U.S. election would use an American song by an American singer about an American tragedy as his rallying cry? If he had this brilliant idea in his head to get people to "rise up" couldn't he at least fake it a bit and say "I'm reminded of that Parachute Club classic…?"

    It's not good politics to give your opponents or the public any opportunity to ridicule you. Makes me wonder who is actually running this man's campaign and why they are starting to crack.

    • RIGHT ON

      I wonder why no one has mentioned the Liberal Raymond Lavigne to be sentence in May for fraud, still collecting 132,300 annual salary for the past 4 years spent over 300.000 for office travel and expenses since 2007 after he was barred ,and still going to collect his pension

    • Duance, c'mon feel the power! Rise up! Rise up!

      Personally, Iggy sent a thrill up my leg with that powerful call to democractic arms. In his honor, I have pulled out my old gummy bracelets and "piano keys" tie. I want Canada to know that I am Rising up – and when they see my MC hammer pants, they'll know I am part of the Iggy Rising.

      • Maybe he should have just commissioned Justin Bieber to his campaign theme. "I'm like, Iggy, Iggy, Iggy, Oh!" LOL

  123. And NO one seems to get it that he traveled around during SUMMER BREAK

  124. RIGHT ON

    I wonder why no one has mentioned the Liberal Raymond Lavigne to be sentence in May for fraud, still collecting 132,300 annual salary for the past 4 years spent over 300.000 for office travel and expenses since 2007 after he was barred ,and still going to collect his pension

  125. Duance, c'mon feel the power! Rise up! Rise up!

    Personally, Iggy sent a thrill up my leg with that powerful call to democractic arms. In his honor, I have pulled out my old gummy bracelets and "piano keys" tie. I want Canada to know that I am Rising up – and when they see my MC hammer pants, they'll know I am part of the Iggy Rising.

  126. Iggy should familiarise himself with the music of Canada. Stompin' Tom has said a thing or two that applies directly to the Liberal leader:

    And while our politicians, divde our presious land
    We speak in French & English, but they still don't understand
    If you don't believe your country should come before yourself
    Ya can better serve your country, by living somewhere else

    In a land that's short on heros, they trade our jobs away
    And we don't need no zeros to come and help us save the day…

    And if you should find your heaven, where stars & stripes are flown
    You'll learn to stand more proudly, than you ever stood back home
    And they'll tell you that your country, must come before yourself
    Or you'll have to serve your country by living somewhere else

    [youtube pNbFLlMIp28 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNbFLlMIp28 youtube]

  127. Iggy should familiarise himself with the music of Canada. Stompin' Tom has said a thing or two that applies directly to the Liberal leader:

    And while our politicians, divde our presious land
    We speak in French & English, but they still don't understand
    If you don't believe your country should come before yourself
    Ya can better serve your country, by living somewhere else

    In a land that's short on heros, they trade our jobs away
    And we don't need no zeros to come and help us save the day…

    And if you should find your heaven, where stars & stripes are flown
    You'll learn to stand more proudly, than you ever stood back home
    And they'll tell you that your country, must come before yourself
    Or you'll have to serve your country by living somewhere else

    [youtube pNbFLlMIp28 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNbFLlMIp28 youtube]

  128. First he asks citizens to 'rise up'. Failing that, he orders that it be so. Stay tuned.

  129. First he asks citizens to 'rise up'. Failing that, he orders that it be so. Stay tuned.

  130. Maybe he should have just commissioned Justin Bieber to his campaign theme. "I'm like, Iggy, Iggy, Iggy, Oh!" LOL

  131. I'm sure that's not how you meant it but it comes across like your assuming the Tories (that's the traditional Canadian label by the by) are not intelligent people. Partisanship is partisanship but it does cut both ways.

  132. What Harper's done really can't be defended, yet it's important to remember the context and if we're talking about parliament then that context falls right on the opposition parties. Has parliament become more partisan, sure but it takes two (or four) to tango. There is a case to be made that the currently questioned Conservative tactics were adopted because the opposition is quite willing to spin any problem from a solvable issue to a thing worthy of an election. So the Tories reacts stupidity and it becomes a thing worthy of an election. I hear it argued that it's the opposition's job to make political such issues, and maybe that's what we've come to, but it shouldn't be the case. Parliament should do its damndest to work well together, and to pass legislation that best fits this country in its entirety. From the start of the Conservatives taking power the Liberals haven't been fulfilling their duty in that respect, and now here we stand. We just had a minority government, which means if we wish to hold the executive branch in contempt we should hold the legislative branch in that same contempt. If you want to talk the talk then you should probably walk it as well, and that's the issue the Grits face. Too much hypocrisy and not enough solutions means that it doesn't matter if the Tories are becoming exactly what they went to parliament to fight, because as far as the general population is concerned the Grits are already there. So enough of the condescending “rise up”. If the Liberals want to present themselves as the democratic reform party then they need to tell the voters how they're going to make it so instead of pointing to the things we all already know about Harper. He may be part of the problem but so are all the parties and the MPs who hide behind them.

  133. What Harper's done really can't be defended, yet it%E2%80%99s important to remember the context and if we're talking about parliament then that context falls right on the opposition parties. Has parliament become more partisan, sure but it takes two (or four) to tango. There is a case to be made that the currently questioned Conservative tactics were adopted because the opposition is quite willing to spin any problem from a solvable issue to a thing worthy of an election. So the Tories reacts stupidity and it becomes a thing worthy of an election. I hear it argued that it%E2%80%99s the opposition%E2%80%99s job to make political such issues, and maybe that's what we've come to, but it shouldn't be the case. Parliament should do its damndest to work well together, and to pass legislation that best fits this country in its entirety. From the start of the Conservatives taking power the Liberals haven%E2%80%99t been fulfilling their duty in that respect, and now here we stand. We just had a minority government, which means if we wish to hold the executive branch in contempt we should hold the legislative branch in that same contempt. If you want to talk the talk then you should probably walk it as well, and that's the issue the Grits face. Too much hypocrisy and not enough solutions means that it doesn%E2%80%99t matter if the Tories are becoming exactly what they went to parliament to fight, because as far as the general population is concerned the Grits are already there. So enough of the condescending “rise up”. If the Liberals want to present themselves as the democratic reform party then they need to tell the voters how they're going to make it so instead of pointing to the things we all already know about Harper. He may be part of the problem but so are all the parties and the MPs who hide behind them.

  134. the truly sad thing about Ignatieff and the Liberals is that 5 years ago you couldn't tell Iggy and Stephen Harper apart on the political spectrum. Apparently, even a few moments together with the Liberal Party in Canada has reduced Iggy to a shadow of his former self. So much so, that his shadow is now cast in the shape, form, and ideology of Jack layton.

    At least Layton actually believes his own nonsense.

  135. the truly sad thing about Ignatieff and the Liberals is that 5 years ago you couldn't tell Iggy and Stephen Harper apart on the political spectrum. Apparently, even a few moments together with the Liberal Party in Canada has reduced Iggy to a shadow of his former self. So much so, that his shadow is now cast in the shape, form, and ideology of Jack layton.

    At least Layton actually believes his own nonsense.

  136. Well, since these are not Tories, they're neo-Cons….that's exactly how I meant it.

  137. Let's hope most Canadians see what has been happening for a very long time now, send a message to the leftist msm that their tactics will not work. The constant manipulation of the facts, and leftist spin should be all the more reason to vote Conservative. Obviously the media, especially the CBC, have agendas at play. Are they scared of being dismantled if the right get in? After being the Liberal propaganda machine for so long the damn well had better be nervous. I've said it before, make CBC and election issue, or an optional choice to fund.

  138. Oh and Chretien and Martin are best buddies, did you notice, they were seperated, can't stand each other. Your a hypocrite Emily, and a mouthy one at that!

  139. I didn't say they were best buddies….they act in a professional manner, and support the currrent leader

    As to me….yup, I'm an uppity woman….get over it.

  140. The majority of people don't understand the simple concept of a parliamentary democracy, how can you expect them to care about it?

  141. The majority of people don't understand the simple concept of a parliamentary democracy, how can you expect them to care about it?

  142. I saw a clip of this on The National. To my ear he was aping the cadences of a Black preacher. It made me laugh.

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