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Nanos knows where temptation lies inside of your heart: (40/25/19/8/9)


 

Liberals and NDP slide as the Tories break 40 for the first time so far this campaign: 

Conservatives: 40 (+3)

Liberals: 25 (-1)

NDP: 19 (-2)

Green: 8 (+1)

Bloc Quebecois: 9 (-)

Nitty gritty details available here.


 

Nanos knows where temptation lies inside of your heart: (40/25/19/8/9)

  1. Sweet Jesus, this is turning into a bloodbath….

  2. Can you really call it a ‘slide’ when the movement was all within the margin of error?

  3. Is it not weird that for the past 2 years everyone has said Harpers majority lied in Quebec, but oddly enough it looks like Ontario is where he will make or break?

  4. Excellent news and we are on day 19 – go baby go! This election is turning out to be the best yet!

  5. And implicit in this is Canadians telling the governing parties, “Feel free to break any laws you like.”

    I’m actually fairly upset at this. I can only hope now that my apprehensions about what a Harper conservative majority will do to Canada are either wrong, or will work like shock therapy for the country.

  6. And Nik Nanos finally joins what EVERYBODY ELSE has been saying for the past week.

  7. +1,000,000 points for the Velvet Underground reference.

  8. I know how you feel T. Thwim. Implicit in the Liberal victories over the last 10 years or so was Canadians telling the governing parties, “Feel free to make any promise you like. We don’t expect you to keep them.” Liberals have a long way to go to earning my trust again. Harper’s no saint but he still has a long way to go before I feel as burned as I did voting Liberal before. I still don’t trust them.

  9. It must be Harper’s announcement to have 14 and 15 year old boys raped in prison.

  10. “Implicit in the Liberal victories over the last 10 years or so was Canadians telling the governing parties, “Feel free to make any promise you like. We don’t expect you to keep them.”

    Are you serious? Have you forgotten how this election was brought about in the first place? You CPCers are gonna need to find a new line on that one because breaking promises is something your party has elevated to a new art form.

  11. Its time for Caty, Mr. Wells and rest of the MSM to start flooding the papers/internet with stories of “how smart Mr. Dion really is, how he has the best plan (but too hard for the “ordinary” person to understand..ha ha Note: to Caty, Wells and the rest of the liberal gang, TAX increases are very EASY to understand!!

    Note to ITQ – que the stories that suggest we should feel sorry for the Lieberals and Mrs. Dion er…Mr. Dion and vote for them anyway.

    you guys are so predictable!!

  12. Again with the regional numbers showing Harper lagging in Quebec, and surging in ontario, will we find him criss-crossing Quebec and Ontario in the next little while before the debate?

    Nanos says that the Tories are neck and neck in Toronto, will he start campaigning more in the city?

    My guess is he will.

  13. George, maybe it’s just me, but I still feel there’s a qualitative difference between making a promise and not keeping it (as the Liberals did so many, many times) and making a promise and then taking action to do the exact opposite, as Mr. Harper has done so many, many times.

  14. Agreed bob, which is why I was so disappointed in Harper when he raised my income tax 2.5 years ago.

  15. Meanwhile, Dion is campaigning in Quebec City today. Some of the reporters wondered why he is wasting his time in an area where he has very little chance to win a seat (largely based on the weakness of his candidates there)

    So could this be the new LPC strategy–keep Dion away from competitive Liberal ridings, lest he damage the local candidate by his presence ? By rights, Dion should be spending the remaining days in Montreal, Toronto and the Atlantic. But let’s see where he goes.

  16. Mike Moffat,

    What VU ref.? Usually I get those.

  17. Bob Ward,

    Cool your jets. The MSM has some interest in creating an interesting horserace. The manner in which the coverage is played out (strategy and gaffes vs issues discussions) tells us this is so.

    No one likes a rout except the partisans on the winning side. The problem for the media folks like ITQ & Paul is not bias. It is when to run the stories detailing the rout and dissecting the reasons why. To start in on this now would be to severely pre-judge the election results and the potential for the miracle vote flip.

    I would think it’s prudent to wait until after the debates (at least!) before Mr. Dion is consigned to the political trashbin.

  18. Bad Acid Flashback, [Mulroney, deficit, disaster for the nation . . .] if Hunter S. Thompson never typed those specific words I’d be surprised.

    Jaysus get these carnivorous bats off me!

  19. Come on Caty or Mr. Wells

    Its time for your “Randy White” tape

    ha ha ha ha

    Please stop my tummy is sore

  20. T.Thwim,

    If you are going to make distinctions between “not keeping” promises and “breaking” them, why not make distinctions in another way -like, say, the degree and severity of the promise you’re not keeping or breaking? The Federal Liberals for years got away with breaking large platform promises, to say nothing of Mr.McGuinty’s centrepiece broken promise provincially in Ontario.

    I can’t help but wonder: do any of the people using Harper’s bending of his own election law (and it is a bending, not a breaking, since the law clearly permits it) really care about the promise itself, or only it’s value for painting Harper as untrustworthy? I say this because virtually everyone who has chastised Harper for calling an early election either (a) wanted him out of office anyway and (b) would have gladly seen his government collapse the following week via a non-confidence vote in the House.

    I suppose you could argue it speaks to his “character”. But the same folks that love to poke holes at Harper don’t give him credit for any of the achievement of his time in office – achievements which would be impressive for a majority government over four years, nevermind a small minority government with no natural allies in 2.5 years.

    In other words, I defy anyone to name a single politician of any stature who has never arguably broken any promise, ever. You simply cannot do it, because those who are disinclined to support a particular politician will always take a liberal interpretation – and wide extrapolation of any perceived failure to fulfill a promise.

    Them’s the breaks. You can’t please everyone. But Stephen Harper seems to know that he’s pleasing enough people to win this election.

  21. If the cins arent picking up votes in toronto, a distinct possibility it means there wont be a Liberal East of Kinston Rd, North of Steels or West of the 427…bye bye Iggy

    All gone in London, Kitchener and Guelph. Long time to go yet, and it could all shift to the NDP. Mind you a significant minority of the Liberal Party were blue Libs, they wont vote NDP and are pretty likely to vote Con if it does turn into a two way.

    Yup, sweet justice if Kennedy loses against Nash because he backed Dion, and Martha Hall Findlay gets her reward of being elcted to a 3rd party….d’oh

  22. Actually, no, I don’t care about the promise itself. The thing is, when we go to the ballot box, we put in our vote based (ideally) on an idea of what it is the person we are voting for will do for us if s/he gets elected.

    With the liberals, while because of their record you knew you probably wouldn’t get all that they were talking about, you could be pretty sure what you wouldn’t get.

    With Harper? “We aren’t going to appoint unelected Senators” becomes, “I’m appointing unelected Michael Fortier as a senator.” “I will not tax income trusts” becomes “I will tax income trusts”. “I will not cause an election before October 19, 2009” becomes “I will cause an election a year before October 19, 2009” (Personally, I think taxing income trusts is a good thing. I just think Harper’s a lying hypocrite for promising that he wouldn’t when even he’s admitted he knew he’d have to change course on that.)

    And what’s most disturbing, even Mr. Ritz has acknowledged this, when saying “When we come back with a majority, all bets are off.”

    So anybody who goes to the ballot box to vote for a conservative this year is voting for a complete wild card. We have no idea what Mr. Harper will do once elected. However, you may want to see this article for some possibilities. The only consistency to his governance has been to do whatever will most disrupt the parliamentary traditions we’ve built up over the past 140 or so years.

  23. “Are you serious? Have you forgotten how this election was brought about in the first place? You CPCers are gonna need to find a new line on that one because breaking promises is something your party has elevated to a new art form.”

    Boudica, I don’t belong to any party but I admit I will be voting for Harper this time. I have voted Liberal before and PC. The NDP are just too left for my liking.

    For now, Harper and co. don’t come close to the lies and inaction of the Liberal party over the years. I realize Harper and co. are not great but… for all the crass politics Harper is playing I see him tearing a page out of how the Liberals used to operate when they were once successful. I just don’t see how the Liberals have any credibility when they accuse Harper of this.

  24. Oh no someone on this thread has been indulging in the listerine again.

    I’m sure some Liberal supporters can give you some gravol to help with the other side effect, bob.

  25. “for all the crass politics Harper is playing I see him tearing a page out of how the Liberals used to operate when they were once successful.”

    So why are you voting for him, then? Clearly, if the Liberal lies and deception turned you off, why would you vote for a party that is, according to you, imitating them?

  26. ALW – I think most people’s beef with Harper breaking his own fixed election date legislation is that he said he enacted it to remove advantageous snap election calls made for political game, citing Chretien more than once.

    Then he did the exact same thing.

    Another beef may have been why would someone enact their own legislation only to break the spirit of that legislation?

    It isn’t a world-ending broken promise, but it does reveal a lot of his political character; opportunistic, untrustworthy and the hypocritical. The degree to which those adjectives can be applied can be debated, but not their application.

  27. game=gain above…

  28. George: I’d echo boudica. Don’t put your vote in with a party you don’t want, because you’re only guaranteeing that you’ll get more of what you don’t want. That’s why I’m not voting for any of the three majors, and given May’s leftward lean on the Greens, probably not them either.

    There are 14 federally registered parties running. Rather than perpetuate what you don’t like, vote for something you do like.. even if it’s a complete fringe party. That’s one of the only ways an average voter can hope to change the majors, by making them realize that there’s a voting block they can capture if they adjust their policies.

  29. Chretien called snap elections from a majority position from which he was never threatened. The opposition was clearly unwilling to live with fixed election dates in as they kept musing about bringing down the government when it was to their advantage. Yawner of an issue.

    As for the rumour the Tories are tied with the Libs in Toronto….if true then this seems appropriate.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F23GG58eL2I

  30. “George: I’d echo boudica. Don’t put your vote in with a party you don’t want, because you’re only guaranteeing that you’ll get more of what you don’t want. ”

    ???

  31. Randy White, Randy White

    come on Caty et all i know you have it, its just a matter of “timing” for you

    P.S. good luck with that

  32. T. Thwim —

    George is a standard swing voter.

    These people — they vote for Harris twice, then McGuinty twice. They vote for Mulroney twice, Chretien three times, Martin once or twice, and probably Harper now. Their American counterparts voted for Reagan twice, Bush once, Clinton twice, Bush twice, and now they’re thinking about maybe going for Obama.

    No particular political philosophy governs for long, but more a gut feeling that one guy is better to take the country forward than another.

    Maddening to us political partisans.

  33. Stephen: The difference being that the opposition never once claimed that Harper’s law would do anything to fix the election dates, nor that they were approving of such. The conservatives did both, then turned their back on it. It once again speaks to how you can’t know what you’re voting for if you vote conservative. Sure, they say they’ll lock up violent 14 year olds but given their past performance, what’s to say they won’t turn around and decide that it’s far too expensive to do that, and instead move to have young offenders released to their homes for proper family guidance?

  34. “Maddening to us political partisans.”

    Actually, what I find bizarre is his contention that he will not vote for the Libs because they are liars yet will admire and vote for the CPC for doing the same thing.

  35. “Actually, what I find bizarre is his contention that he will not vote for the Libs because they are liars yet will admire and vote for the CPC for doing the same thing.”

    Some people can lie and get away with it, others can’t.

    Chretien would have — had he managed a fourth run in ’04 or ’05, he’d have made mincemeat out of the opposition.

    Steyn got it right:

    What would Chrétien have done? He’d have said, “Waal, da scam is da scam and, when you got da good scam, dat da scam. Me, I like da scam-and-eggs wid da home fries at da Auberge Grand-Mère every Sunday morning. And Aline, she always spray da pepper on it. Like Popeye say, I scam what I scam. Don’ make me give you da ol’ Shawiniscam handshake …” Etc., etc., until it all dribbled away into a fog of artfully constructed incoherence, and the heads of the last two journalists following the story exploded, and he won his fourth term.

    Terribly unfair — why should it have stuck to Martin when it didn’t stick to Chretien, and why might Harper get away with acting like Chretien (with election dates and campaign promises) now?

    Politics can be strange.

  36. T Thwim….ulm, they voted for the Fixed election bill….so I guess they supported it.

    I dont mind it in majority situations, thought it was stupid in minority situations since it gave all the power to the opposition, and you saw the lack of discipline that comes with thinking you wont be held accountable.

    Majority oppositions also act that way, see Rat Pack, since they know they have nothing to lose.

    Anyway, ridiculous issue since I dont hear any of the opposition leaders saying they think the election wasnt required.

    As for changes or breaks…well there are promises that make sense to break, like the GST scrap, or ripping up Nafta, or gasoline excise tax, need I go on. Ultimately those were responsible things to do. The argument then is that it was irresponsible to make the promise in the first place. But thats what elections are about.

    Long time left in campaign, who knows, there could be a major turnaround, you never really know till about three days ahead, and even then…..Lots of questions

    minority majority
    green seats or no green seats
    tories in toronto?
    NDP opposition?
    Bloc resurgence or Blue Wave?
    Will Iggy win and does he want to if they are going to be third place, my bet, Harper makes him ambassador to the UN.

    Right now though, things arent looking good in Loberal land and if the campaign doesnt shut down then I think there is still one major embaressing error, a la Paul Martin driving a horse cart with a flat tire, left in this underresourced and underaged campaign team.

    I think the reporters have been kind to M Dion’s mistakes so far, but they have all been side commenting on its lack of fire, attendance and direction, and Harper’s impressive campaign.

    At some point it will be clear that despite holdng doors open that Dion just isnt up to it.

    But funny things happen in debates so we will see.

  37. Not encouraging numbers, to say the least. Hopefully the debates will be a game changer. That and a few more idiot eruptions for the Cons campaign (I see the Conservative candidate in Calgary Centre is today’s designated idiot, with a comment about immigrants and crime) would help turn this around. Alas the Cons muzzle on their candidates ever tightens (see: Donna Cadman).

    It’s not over ’til it’s over…

  38. Dije – but if Harper had waited two weeks and introduced a bill in the House to engineer his own defeat, everyone would have been up in arms about why we bothered to have byelections! So he was damned if he did, damned if he didn’t.

    Look, the reason the fixed election law is meaningless in a minority Parliament is because the PM always has a way to trigger an election -by introducing a confidence bill that’s unpalatable to the opposition. Do you suppose that if the opposition had brought down the government, anyone would have cried about the opposition breaking the fixed election date law? No? Then why the crocodile tears?

    If Harper really and truly wanted to manipulate the system he would have gone far, far earlier. I frankly think he just got fed up with the opposition complaining but rolling over, Dion having it both ways.

    Besides, it’s day 19 of the campaign – do you think anyone cares now about how the election came about?

  39. So why are you voting for him, then? Clearly, if the Liberal lies and deception turned you off, why would you vote for a party that is, according to you, imitating them?

    Because there is no other option. There is only one credible candidate for PM right now for anyone who is center-left, or anywhere to the right of it and its Harper. The guy is admittedly not perfect, but he’s by far the best option we’ve got for now.

    Ledrew is right. The LPC needs to get their ass kicked, come to grips that they are broken, and rebuild. Let Harper have his majority this time round. Get a new leader and rebuild the LPC to what it used to be.

    I’m a CPC supporter right now but I hate the fact that there is only one credible option to vote for; Canada needs a healthy competitive LPC, or in 5-10 years the Conservatvies will be as bad as the Liberals were when they got turfed.

  40. ALW, you can come up with all of the justifications in the world but it still doesn’t change the fact that Harper lied and boldly broke his promise/legislation.

    The point here is that Cons can no longer point fingers at Liberals when it comes to not upholding promises.

    Frankly, that he would break a promise didn’t really raise my eyebrows. What did is that he went as far as setting aside his OWN law to get his way. His own legislation!

    So how can anyone trust a single word that comes out of his mouth?

    Seriously ALW, do you really believe Harper when he says that he would see to it that our troops pull out in 2011?

  41. “Because there is no other option. There is only one credible candidate for PM right now for anyone who is center-left, or anywhere to the right of it and its Harper. The guy is admittedly not perfect, but he’s by far the best option we’ve got for now.”

    John g, if you tell me that you are voting for Harper because you have no other choice, I can understand that.

    But the question wasn’t directed at you.

  42. Yawn – how are you kiddies gonna keep up the euphoria when tomorrow’s polls come out…
    In case you have forgotten there are well over 50% of Canadians saying – ABH…
    When they see these numbers – knee jerk reaction will be to reverse this spurt and cut Harper’s toenails really close…
    Wait and see!

  43. Good points ALW : I would add that I think Harper did Dion a huge favour as who knows if he didn’t have the GG drop the writ maybe Dion would have tried whipping his MP’s into sitting on their hands again during a confidence motion and that would have destroyed the party after all folks 43 down why not make it 50 .. speaking of which I have been trying to find out the record for a parliamentary system political party leader sitting on his hands for that many motions and the closest I can find is in Korea though it’s hard to tell … Hey Pundits and diggers for the truth and the dirt maybe some of you guys could find out???

  44. Wayne: I’d be willing to bet it’s the exact same as the number of leaders who’ve declared 43 confidence motions in under three years.

  45. 43 confidence motions isn’t really that high a number. You have to remember that even what seem to be rather mundane votes are confidence measures — all of the main and supplementary estimates (both A and B), any votes on budgetary matters (not just the budget speech, but the budget bill, at all stages), and throne speeches plus associated amendments.

  46. Boudica, John G. nailed it for me really.

    I feel I don’t have a choice in voting for anyone but Harper. I still feel the Liberals need some time on the side lines to rejuvinate themselves. I too hope they get their act together to hold the Tories accountable. The longer one party stays in power it breeds arrogance and at it’s worst corruption. I’m confident if we give Harper and co. enough time (two terms/decade or less) in power they will need to be taken down just as bad as Mulroney and Martin after him. The Libs need to take a break and let Harper steer the ship a bit more. I will probably vote Harper out when the time comes but right now I believe he’s the best choice.

    I should also add I don’t fear he will tear apart Canada. The fear mongering on the Left is deafening it’s so ridiculous. Almost every party who takes power governs more moderately to the centre. Even in the worst case scenario we can always vote Harper out and put the Libs back in 4 years from now.

  47. I hope that the Liberals, once they are eventually re-elected, have the guts to propose preferential voting. This reform would annihilate the CPC’s chances of re-election, pretty much forever.

  48. T. Thwim: ‘And implicit in this is Canadians telling the governing parties, “Feel free to break any laws you like.” I’m actually fairly upset at this.’

    Though surely you were even more upset, waaay more upset about it, when McGuinty got re-elected, after all his doozies?

    No? Well then, you have no right to comment now.

  49. Hey Anon : that puts it between 10 + 15 which would’ve been high but 43!!!! I still can not find precise information from anywhere except an occasional reference to Spain, Japan and maybe Korea!

  50. Andrew: “[PR] reform would annihilate the CPC’s chances of re-election, pretty much forever.”

    Umm, no it wouldn’t. It only would seem that way for those people who consider democracy and present voting behaviour as static entities. I can assure you that a Lib-NDP coalition would screw this country over in fairly short order, and voters would migrate accordingly. Democracy is a self-correcting pendulum, Andrew.

  51. boudica: “You CPCers are gonna need to find a new line on that one because breaking promises is something your party has elevated to a new art form.”

    Give.me.a.break! No party comes anywhere close to the level of promise-breaking, opportunism, sleaziness and corruption of the Liberal Party of Canada! NO ONE!

  52. “In case you have forgotten there are well over 50% of Canadians saying – ABH…”

    If they’re saying anything it’s Anybody But Dion. Only 11% of Canadians think Dion would make the best PM. Not even Liberal voters want Dion to be Prime Minister.

  53. T. Thwim: “The only consistency to his governance has been to do whatever will most disrupt the parliamentary traditions we’ve built up over the past 140 or so years.”

    Hmm, does the day May 10th, 2005 ring a bell for anyone? This is the day our parliamentary tradition was chucked in the dumpster by the Martin government.

    http://www.sfu.ca/~aheard/conventions.html

    Martin then proceeded to wait 7 days (!) before calling for a confidence vote, just enough time to woo over Ms. Stronach with a cabinet posting. The government kept spending money and making announcements in that week, when it was, at the very least, uncertain whether the gov’t actually enjoyed the confidence of the House, and so should’ve been barred from spending from the Treasury until such time as that question of confidence was fully resolved!

    There’s your parliamentary traditions for you!

    And T. Thwim, still going on about how Ritz caused those deaths? I wonder how you square such a stupid and hyper-partisan statement with the report that came out yesterday detailing that deficiencies in the food system were highlighted as far back as April 2005, yet nothing was done about it by the former government?! Harper came in and has hired 200 more inspectors and instituted changes to the system. Facts are a stubborn thing, eh?

  54. KRB: To be honest, I wouldn’t know about McGuinty. I don’t bother following the antics of premiers from provinces I’m not a resident of. Had I been in Ontario? It’s entirely possible, but it’s irrelevant to this election.

  55. Uh.. did you read your link? It suggested that the appropriate response was to wait several days until the MPs could all be present and hold a non-confidence vote, and that’s what happened. That Stronach crossed the floor is incidental. And when a government moves into election mode, it isn’t barred from governing until the completion of the election, witness Harper and his over 20 billion dollar election goodie grab bag that he handed out.

    However, one thing Martin did not do is distribute a manual to fellow Liberal members as to how to disrupt committee work, such as running away from the table if you’re the chair.

    Deficiencies were highlighted in April 2005, Conservatives were elected in January 2006, and their own response to these deficiencies was to call for 5% operational cuts to the CFIA. As a result of which, once people started, oh, you know.. dying.. and the CMAJ came out and put the blame directly on Ritz and Harper for their boneheaded moves, Harper realized he better promise to hire a bunch of inspectors before election day.

    Whether he will or not? Well.. that remains to be seen.

  56. But, Thwim, the reason the opposition parties had to resort to that was that Martin was denying them Opposition Days on which they could introduce a real confidence motion.

    My understanding was that Stronach’s crossing the floor was not incidental, that the Tories and the Bloc together could have defeated the government + NDP if she had voted with the Tories. Without Stronach, the Tories could only muster 152-152, thus allowing the budget (plus NDP bonus package) to pass.

    So, Martin refused Opposition Days, refused to acknowledge what the SFU link calls “a clear expression of non-confidence,” and seduced Stronach in time for the “real” confidence vote. If that’s not a cynical denial of constitutional convention, I don’t know what is. His name will live in infamy.

    I do agree, though, that handing out a manual on how to obstruct Parliamentary committees is almost as bad, aesthetically. But, bad as it is, the relationship between the Government and Parliament is absolutely fundamental to our democracy, and Martin spat all over it.

  57. This comment thread reads like a group therapy session for depressed Liberals.

    NEWSFLASH: The Liberal Party of Canada needs significant renewal before it can govern again.

    Take this trip to the electoral wilderness as an opportunity to re-energize the party as opposed to the band-aid solutions that were up on offer in Montreal – i.e. Leader as saviour Ignatieff, Rae, i.e. Save the Planet as a trendy issue.

    The Liberal Party has lost its bearings, it’s credibility, and it’s raison d’etre. Are people honestly surprised by these poll numbers? The Liberal Party does not have a constitutional right to govern this country. They have to regain the people’s trust. That will take some time and will require a real attempt at party renewal. Take this as Canadians giving the party a great opportunity, and cheer up.

  58. The fact that the 2006 non-confidence vote was not called on the date of Harper’s choosing is irrelevant. Procedures were properly followed despite the fact that certain opposition parties wanted their way, right away. Democracy was well served, both procedurally AND practically (after only a few days, the vote was held in a proper manner).

  59. But only after Martin had figured out how to seduce enough MP’s to his side, Mike T. Before that he was willfully obstructing it.

  60. KRB:

    “Umm, no it wouldn’t. It only would seem that way for those people who consider democracy and present voting behaviour as static entities. I can assure you that a Lib-NDP coalition would screw this country over in fairly short order, and voters would migrate accordingly. Democracy is a self-correcting pendulum, Andrew.”

    You misquoted me, as I wasn’t referring to proportional representation, but preferential voting. These are different concepts. Seeing as Conservatives would have a hell of a time getting enough second and third choice votes to win a majority if not a plurality of seats. Conservative strength at the moment comes solely, and I do mean solely, from the fragmentation of the left. Preferential voting makes vote-splitting irrelevant.

  61. I’m not particularly a Liberal partisan (more Green by inclination, if I had to choose), but for those who feel they have no choice but to vote Conservative as the “lesser of two evils” I’d point out the following:

    These guys share a lot in common with the Harris conservatives of Ontario (and a few key members). You won’t just be sitting the Liberals out for some penalty time, you’ll be handing the reigns of power to a group who have a massive chip on their shoulder. They can barely contain the contempt and resentment they feel toward most everything Canadians have worked to build over the last fifty years at the federal level.

    They will dismantle, and they will alter the federal structure of this country for no other reason than to prove that they can. The damage they do will not be of the sort that can be undone by putting the Liberals back in four years.

    They don’t fundamentally care about the concept of Canada as a cohesive nation. They will appeal to the basest fears and selfishness of the people. They don’t present a vision of the country in the future because they don’t care. When they’re done in Ottawa, they’ll toss the keys back and return to their respective corners of the country.

    They’re engaged in a political pissing match that has everything to do with hating “Ottawa”, Quebec, and central Canada, and precious little to do with the common good.

    Anyway, just my opinion on things, and hopefully a little food for thought…

  62. “They’re engaged in a political pissing match that has everything to do with hating “Ottawa”, Quebec, and central Canada, and precious little to do with the common good.”

    S.S. – Their hate-on for Quebec has been so successful that the PQ is now the third party in Quebec for the first time since the early 1970’s, the BQ is fighting for their political skins forcing beady-eyed Gilles Duceppe to outdo himself with his shameless divisive demagoguery, and the sovereignist movement is now effectively dormant. In other words, with Harper in power, Quebec has never been more engaged in the federation and is talking about the same issues as other Canadians.

    I hope Elections Canada has enumerated the cave you’re living in Sean.

  63. Their placating of Quebec has nothing to do with creating a sustainable federation, or giving a damn about the country in any meaningful sense. They’re working the “enemy of my enemy is my friend” angle. Conservative devolution of federal powers will acheive more more Quebec nationalism than the BQ ever could.

  64. Sean S “They can barely contain the contempt and resentment they feel toward most everything Canadians have worked to build over the last fifty years at the federal level”

    The contempt is all yours.

    “They will dismantle, and they will alter the federal structure of this country for no other reason than to prove that they can. The damage they do will not be of the sort that can be undone by putting the Liberals back in four years.”

    When I read stuff like this I am so thankful that I live in a democracy, because of the large number of irrational people who talk about conservatives the same way many people in the last century used to talk about blacks, gypsies and/or Jews.

  65. Sf, I agree with you, but I suppose we have to cut some of these people a little slack at the moment because they are in mourning and shock.

  66. “Conservative devolution of federal powers will acheive more more Quebec nationalism than the BQ ever could.”

    Another tired Trudeautite misconception. Harper’s respecting the original BNA Act which has, and will continue to keep this country together. It’s Trudeau trying to usurp provincial powers that got us close to a break up of the nation in the 1995 referendum. Chretien blew it and blind luck resulted in a by-th-skin-of-their-teeth victory for federalists in that year.

    Sure, those were exciting times, but somehow, except for constitutionally doctrinaire federalists likd Trudeau and his ilk, most Canadians prefer the current placid federal-politics of Harper’s 2008 administration. It’s probably another reason why he’s kicking a** in this election.

  67. I was just called for the first time ever by a polling company and asked a few questions about who I was going to vote for and what issues concerned me most.

    After that 2 minute experience I have to wonder how good polling firms are. I told the woman that I would probably be voting Libertarian and she had no clue what I was talking about. She asked me twice if I was voting Liberal after I said I was voting Libertarian. Is that typical?

  68. The double prompt, “Are you voting Liberal, are you voting Liberal” suggests it was a Nanos poll to me. Maybe the Libs will get an uptick in their numbers tomorrow.

  69. Far be it from me to get in the way of encouraging others to “cheer up”,

    but there’s a real possibility the Liberals have not reached bottom yet.

    The trend is this:

    the more people see Dion the less they like him.

    As we’re only HALFWAY through the campaign the safe money is on the Liberals dropping even further, particularly given the debate will mean more dreaded Dion exposure.

    Add in the fact that the market uncertainty of late will likely dissuade those last Dion holdouts from risking putting our country in the hands of a fumbling academic with a penchant for dabbling in experimenting with our economy,

    and we could be witnessing a political implosion of epic proportions.

  70. Give me a break, it’s because the Libertarians are only running 26 candidates. If you’d picked a real political party . . .

  71. “She asked me twice if I was voting Liberal after I said I was voting Libertarian. Is that typical?”

    The interviewers are generally low paid, part-time staff. They are instructed to never assume what a respondent “means”, and to ask for clarification if they are unclear (you can imagine the variation in accents, etc., one encounters, people are surprisingly varied in thier abilities to identify parties by their proper names). Since what you were saying was awfully close to Liberal, she was actually doing a good job by getting you to clarify – a poor interviewer would have heard “Liberal” and moved on.

    sf – classy. very classy…

  72. “Maybe the Libs will get an uptick in their numbers tomorrow”

    Jarrid

    That’s a good one, if Libs are +2 tomorrow we will know what happened. :)

  73. Sean S

    Your explanation makes sense up to a point, I guess. But she did sound a bit discombobulated after I told her Libertarian for the third time and asked if we could we move on to the next question because I was getting tired of being part of an abbott and costello routine.

  74. Libertarian Party is oxymoronic. Real libertarians don’t vote. It doesn’t pass the “collective action” sniff test. They’d have to gather in the same place at the same time as all those other people.
    Or maybe that’s anarchists…. well, no, we see them at “gatherings” all the time.
    Anabaptists ??

  75. Sean S: And you are claiming that your end-of-the-world-hidden-agenda-conservatives-are-psychotic-monsters-ready-to-dismantle-Canada diatribe was classy? OK. Really, it did remind me of some historical movies I’ve seen.

    Jarrid has a point, the Liberal supporters are a little emotional, now that Nanos has gone this way.

    Frankly, I think this latest uptick is in response to the culture wars. Every time a writer or TV producer that nobody has ever heard of goes on TV and claims ownership of future taxpayers’ money, the Conservatives gain some more votes.

    jwl: I didn’t even know we had much of a Libertarian party in Canada. And I consider rather libertarian. Libertarianism seems far more established in the US.

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