On not shutting the f— up


The Lancet laments, Bob Rae worries and Maureen McTeer warns.

And then there is this from Charles McVety.


On not shutting the f— up

  1. I know if I was God, I'd be seriously annoyed with all the people constantly using me as an excuse for their nonsense.

    • Yep, I think there's even a commandment to that effect.

      • Which McVety breaks severy time he opens his mouth.

        • 'Kay Sick Holly!

  2. I am disgusted when people (Rae, McTeer) go on about how not providing abortion is abandonment of women in the thrid world who are getting raped.

    The problem is the rapes for crying out loud, which we should be helping to stop and giving medical aid to those whom we can't protect. That medical aid must include both the mother and the children – you don't kill one to help the other.

    • Well, in the case of thereapeutic abortion, if you don't "kill one to help the other" you'll probably end up killing both. But that's putting it rather crassly, so how about this:

      The rapes aren't the problem, but a symptom of it. Just as lack of access to abortion (not on demand, but rather as needed) is a symptom of a broader issue. In the Congo, rape is used as a primary weapon of war, a war that seems to have embedded itself in the culture of that country.

      Changing a country's culture, and ending a war, are long-term goals that are both admirable and prudent. However, in the short term, we can't fail to address the symptoms of the problem, so we need solutions that help to address the impacts – education, social services, access to medical services, etc of which one service on the table for discussion is abortion.

      • I completely agree, except for the part about abortion being a medical "service". It's no more a "service" than hiring assassins to wreak vengeance on the rapist would be a "service" – two wrongs do not make a right.

        Killing children conceived in rape solves nothing. Instead, we should provide medical care to both the child and her mother, help feed/clothe/shelter both, and do whatever we can to protect women from rape.

        • More lies! Gaunilon, stop lying to yourself. When a malnourished 11 year-old girl has been gang-raped and impregnated, HER BODY IS TOO SMALL TO CARRY A PREGNANCY TO TERM. IF SHE TRIES TO HAVE A BABY, IT WILL RIP HER BODY APART. SHE WILL DIE. THE FETUS WILL DIE. THE ONLY WAY TO SAVE THE GIRL IS TO GIVE HER AN ABORTION BEFORE THE FETUS GETS TOO BIG AND DAMAGES HER BODY TOO MUCH. So in this case abortion IS the solution.

          I am so sick of you stupid narrowminded rightwing bigots who refuse to face reality. Grow up!

          • If you are so passionate …. you go do it.

            I will not and I will not pay for you to go do it. Cruelty in that part of the world is part of the culture, as it is here for many other things.

            You go save Africa … I have my hands full here trying to save the unborn children of consenting adults who were not 11 years old and gang raped.

      • What unmitigated arrogance – why we will just run right over and change their culture ….. we have been in Afghanistan for 8 years at a cost of over 4 billion dollars…. our culture changing is working real well there isn't it!

        There are words for people like you. One of them is: JINGOISM … a form of extreme extreme chauvinism or nationalism marked especially by a belligerent foreign policy!

        Look up the others yourself I refuse to acknowledge you any further.

    • Are you equally disgusted when McVety lies about how uncommon rape is in the Congo?

      • Abortion is illegal in the Congo!

        So its a horribly off topic point.

        Stop acting like kittens everybody!

      • It is you who are disgusting …. you sit here on your bottom wanting someone else to do what or to pay for what you so passionitely want done.

        Get Up ….. Go Forth ….. And Kill, Sick Holly!

      • Can you share the real figures with us?

    • Well, Gaunilon, if you come up with a cure for rape during war do let us know. I'm surprised McVety didn't suggest the rapes were somehow the fault of the women. This issue is a great fund raising opportunity (now that SSM is dead) so it's a bit rich to see him complaining. I don't know who would be fired upenough by him to get out the cheque book though, he is the most uninspired evangelical I've ever seen.

    • For the most part these rapes are a form of terrorism intended to terrorize not only the victims but their communities into submitting to the demands of the invading forces, so good luck with helping to stop that.

    • great. we agree that the rape is a problem. in time between now and when we solve the problem of rape, should the women who are victimized by rape be told that, regardless of their will, they will aso be forced to have a child as a result of the rape if they become pregnant as a result?

      • If the victim of rape is pregnant, she already has a child. At that point we should help both the woman and her child, not kill the child. Rape is bad; compounding it with murder is worse for all involved.

        Accusing men and women who oppose financing infanticide of "abandoning women" when we are donating time and money to provide genuine help to such women is truly disgusting and dishonest.

        • If the victim of rape is pregnant, she already has a child.

          To clarify: If I'm not mistaken you believe that the moment of conception marks the beginning of the life of a child, and so from that moment onward an abortion is effectively a murder. I can follow that reasoning.

          But it seems that quite a few folks accept that the start of the life of a child occurs (quite?) a bit further along in the course of a pregnancy. Ultimately disagreements about abortion hinge on defining that moment, and the other discussions around the topic (such as the pregnancy due to rape scenario) are basically emotional smokescreens that obscure the debate.

          So, convince them that life begins at conception and all your worries are over.

          • You have it exactly right on the first point: the debate hinges on whether the unborn is a child or just part of the adult. And you are also exactly right as to the smokescreens and other tactics used to avoid this key point.

            As to the last point, I'm afraid you're incorrect. I've met several abortion supporters who acknowledge that the unborn is a child and are ok with the concept of child-murder to preserve a woman's independence at all costs. I've even seen it in print. Take this quote from Judith Arcana, a noted abortion supporter (and former abortion provider), for example:

            "We – in the states – have dealt heavily, up to now, in euphemism. I think one of the reasons why the 'good guys' – the people in favor of abortion rights – lost a lot of ground is that we have been unwilling to talk to women about what it means to abort a baby. We don't ever talk about babies, we don't ever talk about what is being decided in abortion. We never talk about responsibility. The word 'choice' is the biggest euphemism. Some use the phrases 'products of conception' and ‘contents of the uterus,' or exchange the word ‘pregnancy' for the word ‘fetus.' I think this is a mistake tactically and strategically, and I think it's wrong.. And indeed, it has not worked – we have lost the high ground we had when Roe was decided. My objection here is not only that we have lost ground, but also that our tactics are not good ones; they may even constitute bad faith. It is morally and ethically wrong to do abortions without acknowledging what it means to do them. I performed abortions, I have had an abortion and I am in favor of women having abortions when we choose to do so. But we should never disregard the fact that being pregnant means there is a baby growing inside of a woman, a baby whose life is ended. We ought not to pretend this is not happening." – J. Arcana, London, 1999

            It is a sick, sick society in which we live.

          • Hear! Hear! A coherent person possessed of a foundational concept of what is humanity!

            Gaunilon, I praise you and I will drink a toast to your very good health!

          • I'm not sure that Judith Arcana's view will ever become mainstream enough to make access to abortion more restricted than it is today.

          • I don't think we can rely on a liberal government to implement the proper barriers, or a conservative government to remove unnecessary blocks.

            Thus our last option is to educate the public and, as you said, that testimony, and many others, will ever become mainstream enough.

          • Liberal government has implemented exactly the right barriers – making thedifficult choice a decision between the pregnant woman and her doctor.

          • "You have it exactly right on the first point: the debate hinges on whether the unborn is a child or just part of the adult."

            uhm, you do recognize that their alternative understandings than that binary interpretation you are interpreting on the situation, right Gaunilon?

          • Hey snm:

            I'll guess that we both (strongly?) dislike inappropriate use of binary choices, specifically situations where a binary choice is presented while there are clearly other options available for consideration. But that doesn't mean that there aren't any situations that truly do have a binary choice.

            So can you just provide one or two options that you think are valid in addition to the two options that Gaunilon provided? Or, could you reword G's binary choice so that it becomes a valid binary choice?

          • Hi Phil. Hope you are keeping well!

            I mostly concur with you that the key point is disagreement as to what constitutes the point that life is the most confounding of the problems.

            The way that I understand abortion, that does not fit the binary choice that G has put forward, is that at conception the basis of a new form of potential life is created. I don;t consider it part of the mother – the mother offers it essential requirements (that change over time) but it is a distinct entity. that being said it doesn't have a reasonable chance at independent survival until close to 25 weeks. so for those first 25 weeks while it is an distinct entity it is, in my eyes only a potential life. not sure how much that does to resolve anything, but it is how i look at it.

          • It sounds like you believe the unborn is a child after 25 weeks or so. Are you aware that abortion is permitted in Canada through all nine months of pregnancy? If so, this should bother you.

          • Do you have a handy link (or equivalent) to a histogram to % of abortions vs week of pregnancy?

            If not, I will try to track down that info for myself.

          • StatsCan's search engine is down, but wikipedia's reference 7 for late-term abortions purports to be a table downloaded from Statscan. Here's the wiki link.

            It lists 0.7% of abortions in 2003 for which detailed records were kept as being "over 20 weeks". From the total, that works out to 324 for that year. To put this in perspective, that's more than double our total casualties in Afghanistan…and it's per year…and it's children being killed with the full consent of the law.

          • Thanks Gaunilon…I'm pondering, and pondering takes time…..

          • Especially since late abortions are usually done in order to save the mother's life. But Gaunilon doesn,t care about her.

          • It would be somewhat helpful to know the stats on those less than 1%…how many of the 324 (in 2002) or 139 (in 2003) were indeed done as a result of the (what must be an awful) decision to save the mother compared to how many were done at week 21 because of a delayed decision by the mother to abort an unwanted pregnancy compared to any other reasons.

            By the way, I doubt that Gaunilon actually doesn't care about the mothers.

          • i think it has the potential to exist unto itself at about 25 weeks or so. but truth be told that is not the only factor i feel is important is considering how i view abortion.

            if the mother;s life is in jeopardy do you consider it to be acceptable or appropriate for that woman to have an abortion or are you taking a hardline position that child birth should be proceeded with, and while all should be done to help the mother, that her life being at risk is acceptable?

            (as per Holly and my quoting of the WHO below this is a real concern, and while your notion that these cases can be resolved merely via improving medical and health capacoty, 1) not all such can be; 2) the requisite advances are not going to happen in most third world countries any time soon to make a dramatic change).

            oh. and on a side note… I am a big boy. i can decide what i should be bothered by.

        • so, to be clear, because you have decided that the moment of conception marks the realization of a life, the women's will – if she would otherwise choose to have an abortion – ought to be ignored (not unlike when she would have otherwise chosen not to have engaged in a sexual act)?

          • As I posted above a small girl or malnourished woman is apt to die if she tries to carry a pregnancy to term; and the fetus would die as well. Would Gaunilon support an abortion in that case to save the woman or girl's life? Or is she just a disposable container?

          • Is it possible for you to provide some numbers? Eg, out of 1000 abortions in region X, about how many would be required in order to save the life of a small girl, about how many to save the life of a malnourished woman, how many to deal with pregnancy due to a rape and so on.

            Not sure that those numbers will sway Gaunilon, but they might help people who are open to changing their position about abortions.

          • "…Every minute, at least one woman dies from complications related to pregnancy or childbirth – that means 529 000 women a year. In addition, for every woman who dies in childbirth, around 20 more suffer injury, infection or disease – approximately 10 million women each year…"

            "…some one million children are left motherless each year. These children are 10 times more likely to die within two years of their mothers' death…"

          • From the WHO:

            Every minute, at least one woman dies from complications related to pregnancy or childbirth – that means 529 000 women a year. In addition, for every woman who dies in childbirth, around 20 more suffer injury, infection or disease – approximately 10 million women each year….

            Five direct complications account for more than 70% of maternal deaths: haemorrhage (25%), infection (15%), unsafe abortion (13%), eclampsia (very high blood pressure leading to seizures – 12%), and obstructed labour (8%).


          • And, forgotten – that small girls 10-11 years are not always fully formed to be able to carry a child.

  3. Why is McVety politicizing our judicial system? "It's so unfortunate that this is being politicized."

    • Why does he do anything – $$$$$$$$$s.

      • You really are a small minded bigot! Me thinks you got away with it for too long!

        • You're going to set nme straight, are you? Good luck with that sweetcheeks.

          • I daresay that George may be F. Verhoeven, who should get away from the computer and go take a nice calming walk.

          • Well no, I have to leave the computer from time to time to comfort or talk to my children and grand children but it is important to me that you trolls receive some opposition.

            At my age, I no longer need much more then 4 hours sleep and a 1/2 hour nap a day. so I have time aplenty to rebut non thinking sheep such as you.

            Get you buddy Iccy to vote non confidence and face the electorate.

          • I'll have to apologize to F. Verhoeven, who is not as stupid nor as obnoxious nor nearly as boring as Call Me George is.

          • Sorry, I was out doing good today —- locally!

            Defocussing of the type used by you is pathetic.

            Explain why you want to kill unborn children in Africa …. your incipient and secret racism?
            Explain why you require funding from government to do this …. no one will contribute?
            Explain why …… ahhhh, why bother, waste of my time to try to convince a pure illogical ideologue whose defense to truth is …. well, boring.

          • No No No, I'm not going to set you straight …. why then, you would have to adjust your whole orientation and you would then expect me to pay for your psychiatric bills. No …. I prefer, for the moment, to use a personal approach to this debate, seeings as how you and your ilk introduced it.

            Being a non conformist myself, I am not interested in you at all except that I would like you to provide proofs that the religious right is getting government funds (well, not extreme Jewry or extreme Islam or extreme Sikhism or … well you know – those proofs are too easy to find) but your Religious right. …. show me some proofs (a liberalism from 3 PM's ago).

          • Why thank you!

            I've had to wear a ball bra now for many, many years! Couldn't ride my motorcycle without cutting the front half of the seat off but I won all my fights.

    • What are the lines here in Canada about religious folks trying to form our policies? This is absolutely unacceptable the McVety gets this free ride from Harper – interfering in politics. ____Does McVety form Harper's policies?

        • And you and your ilk are not ….. gee, I wonder how that happened!

          Gee, how many times have courts "re-written" or "written" law? And nobody ever voted for them! Not even you Sick Holly!

          Is that the mantra of the truly weird …. TRUST YOUR LOCAL LAWYERS – THEY ALWAYS KNOW WHAT IS BEST!

          Yea sure! I, like so many in hundreds in factual surveys, trust used car salesmen more then the lawyers. But you and your ilk, trust lawyers – boy are you ever out of step!

      • I suppose you are so upset because you lack influence.

        Your whining is unacceptable, it's childish and speakers to your feeling of impotence – keep a couple of your children from being killed and you'll have some proof that you are not totally impotent!

        You want influence, spend the 20 – 30 years to build it by doing more then just whining!

        • Whining George? I just read what you've written and I think you're insane. You don't make sense and accuse people you don't even know of being impotent and talking about their children when you don't know if they have children or not?

          You are certifiable George.

          • Yep! Think … must of hurt your poor little head. First time for everything they say! Well congratulations on the loss of your mental virginity!

            Try it more often, it gets better with experience. HaHaHa

  4. All Hail King McVety! Vive la république (figuratively speaking)!

    • Ahhhhhhhh – to be rid of the Queen – Oh Sorry! That's been taken by the Block!

      Hey, lets recommend a homosexual 'queen' for GG …. then the Queen's representative can also be a Queen!

      The Queen's Queen …. I like that sound of that! ….. are you listening Iggy!

      Vive la république!

      • You really are starkers, aren't you?

        • How did you know I enjoy being without clothing? I recommend it …. makes you kinda equal and judged only on your actual assets ….. body language can be too reveling sometimes ….. hummmmm

  5. In making this decision, Harper has re-opened the abortion debate, no matter how much he tries to pin it on the coalition, the Liberals or the "left". Unsavory as it might seem to us in our comfortable Western lives, safe abortion plays an important role in improving quality of life in the developing world. To impose one's morality in this case is to prolong unnecessary suffering and is shameful.

    • PLease, get a grip!

      • Yes, Chris, do get a grip. It isn't like we actually CARE about these people and their whining suffering or anything. Heck, they probably aren't even white, and I'm almost positive most of them aren't male.

        Really, get a grip.

        • So …. send them your money …. you can make some extra you know, get a part time job and send the proceeds to your favorite suction machine instead of always just trolling here If a man has nothing to say about it why should a man pay for it?

          Why is it that you all want to kill so very much?

          I'm not against killing if it is something I need to eat. People should always have to be willing to eat what they kill!

          • Why do anti-choice advocates like yourself (who have probably never experienced an unwanted pregnancy) persist in characterizing this issue with the most horrific imagery while ignoring the probability of the very real horror that many pregnant women experienced resulting in their pregnancy or the horror that they would experience with a non-medical abortion?

          • What do you think ends up in the bucket?

            I do not give a shit if you pass on your genetics mostly because they appear to be somewhat defective and anti-human.

            I just do not what to participate in the killing …. Got that! You are free to honour your need to preform the process by either paying the people who do it directly out of your packet or raising funds from others to do so …. I would not interfere with your choice however you make it or the choice of the woman.

            But you always want to dictate to me that I have to honour and help pay for your choices. Bugger off Bully!

          • What do you think ends up in the bucket? A head of lettuce? Its a human head with eye, nose and mouth, human arms and hands, human legs and feet and a human torso. If salt is used it's burned black. You don't like the imagery …. what you do not have the stomach for what you wrought …. suck it up Princess! What y0u want ain't pretty.

            No I have not had an unwanted pregnancy … I enjoy all 7 of my legitimate and 4 of my illegitimate children and now over a dozen grandchildren and two great grand children. Regrettably, I lost 3 who were also wanted, one miscarried and two ex-partners make their choice to kill them.

            What makes you think I'm anti-choice? I could care less if all your genetics end up in a slop pail. Make any choice you want slimey …. I am just sick and tired of you making choices for me or indoctrinating mine to believe in the same sort of antiseptic inhumanity as you do.

            I suspect the horror your mother experienced was because of not having an abortion of you!

            Oh dear, a non medical abortion! I keep everyone with whom I have some sort of influence with well away from medical quacks …. 24,000 people in Canada die each year because of medical malpractice, 60,000 are routinized to death in hospitals and nursing homes (mostly by the withholding of food and water) and more then 100,000 little unnamed corpses' end up in buckets ….. our killing machines are running full out now and you want to export that to the third world …. you go do it Killer …. but quit asking for my money to assist you to do it with!

          • sock puppet?

          • And, can we assume that you and your ilk are prepared to personally support the children that would not be aborted for the rest of their lives financially, medically, and in whatever other ways they may require, and the children of those children, and so on?

          • No one is willing to support them …. that's why we brought over 300 kids in from Haiti in the past 3 months and we will have brought in over 600 by mid summer.

            Do I need to produce the evidence of how many people are waiting for 3 to 10 years to adopt? Or are you to ideologically driven or closed mined to even research that!

            I only like to kill when I need to eat …. I don't eat human fetuses. Why do you want to kill humans or potential humans when we forwent capital punishment in Canada.

            Is human life so cheap for you? I've had children of mine killed by the policies you support. One less then a month ago ….. and I weep for the child that never was. And yes, I can change a diaper with the best of them and I have and I do and I will.

            You want to go kill them …. please do so, I just do not want to help you to do it!

            How about we compromise ….. you don't kill them before we find out if they are bad and then you allow us to kill them after we know they have turned out bad …… a little postpartum abortion. …… OK

            Actually, I really don't want to kill Paul Bernardo – just banish him to the Arctic and let nature deal with him.

          • "I only like to kill when I need to eat"

            So, it's okay to kill to end human suffering?

          • our killing machines are running full out now and you want to export that to the third world …. you go do it Killer …. but quit asking for my money to assist you to do it with!

            You cannot be that stupid! A provocateur ….

            Snipe, snipe, bicker, and bite.
            This looks like a lap dog partisan fight.
            The weapons: ad hominem, straw men and mud
            smothered with herring the colour of blood.

            Somewhere the Truth is out flailing around
            beaten and smothered on slippery ground.
            You're not going to see any of it today.
            Cognitive Dissonance gets in the way.

            Yea, sure!

          • We do send our money via taxes and if necessary Canadians are very charitable when it comes to donations.

            Speaking of killing if you need something to eat – hmmm…..so killing animals for sport like hunters do is okay when we have stores to buy our meat?

          • Stick your red herring up where the sun don't shine.

            Are you so stupid as to believe that your meat animals just run into a butcher shop and kill and cut themselves up?

            Yes, why I believe you truly are – stupid, that is. You remind me of so many young people who have a romantic ideal about "fighting for their country", that is until they actually see the torn, broken dismembered and bleeding corpses all about them.

            Go look at the killing of "fetuses". See what is in the bucket and what they really are and what they resemble and look like and maybe like almost all ex-servicemen who have actually been in battle, you will quit talking about it like it is the proper and sane thing to do.

            Only about 2 or 3% of actual fighting men fighting men ON THE GROUND do not suffer from their experiences – the 2 or 3% were pathological in the first place.

            But you make your pronouncements from your computer chair …. go actually watch it and you will shut up about it.

            Have a great day. Get donations to kill, I do not want any longer to contribute my money.

  6. The fact that the Harper Conservatives would agree with a man like McVety says everything about their toxicity.

    • The fact that you are willing and want to kill unborn children speaks volumes about your toxicity.

      • So a woman whose genitals have been mutilated by a gang rape and gets pregnant should be forced to deliver a child?

        • Not my culture …. I had a mother who taught me better manners and also that my ancestors left Africa some long time ago and made a culture more respectful of and to woman.

          My daddy taught me it was a the primary symptom of "Yankee imperialism" to believe I could make other countries culturally change and behave more like me and that I could not do that even in Canada!

          So, if their mommy's and daddy's don't teach them that, what do you want me to do about it.

          I have a suggestion …. rather then to preach at me, go there and help make those changes in their culture …..

          OH, I forgot, liberals only socialists only bitch and they never set up and stay, only visit to kill and spread diseases by contaminated vaccinations so their social work friends can have a government paid job and free travel for life!

          You want to kill, take a course and go do it yourself!

          • Foolish, foolish fool. You're assuming that all Liberals are pro-choice and all Conservative are pro-life.

            Hmmm……better pay attention there partisan. Shelley Glover is pro-choice.

            Some of the Con caucus voted for same sex marriage – Baird, MacKay to name a couple.

            Stop generalizing and stop using Liberals to try to make a point.

          • Oh Dear …. Yes Sir, Yes Sir, two bags full.

            I thought I was reacting to Harper hatred ,,,, don't like the controlling bast ard myself and I have never, in 52 years of voting, voted along party lines but solely for whom I believed was the best candidate.

            The party ideologues here are out in droves and I am a drover.

            I could care less who is pro-choice – I do not want tax dollars to pay to kill for the pleasure of the 3% who have a pathological need to destroy for their own perverse pleasure.

            You one of them?

  7. So is rape illegal there – but it happens a lot.

    • Well if abortion is illegal, then we will not fund it there …. that's what McTeer said …. so to use the Congo as an example where funding is needed for the procedure is a lie.

      What is it about liars …. Oh i forgot, they always lie!

    • Yup, frequent beatings and rapes that include 10 and 11 year old girls is just fine with them it seems.

      • Well, ain't they just a marvelous people. They also murder and eat albino children and do female genital mutilations (those are done by the women you know) and practice several forms of slavery ….. BUT you can fix it …. we'll just increase out taxes to 100% and ship all of the money over to Africa because, why by God, we have an entire culture to change …. Are you sure that you are not American?

        Perhaps, just perhaps, you wold be better off minding your own business with respect to foreign countries and maybe raising funds and awareness to the hopelessness, helplessness and despair we find in our very own Northern communities.

        Perhaps forcing people to occupy our northern territories to protect our sovereignty by occupation should be examined in the light of the human wreckage created by that government policy. and another way found.

        As long as we look externally for human problems, we fail to fix out own!

  8. Parliament is supreme and voted NO to Canadian taxpayers funding 3rd world abortions.

    The simple solution is already in place,
    post abortion care.
    It is the lack of care AFTER the abortion that takes lives,
    not the abortion.

  9. Marquee Tourism Events Program funding was announced today. Remember the outcry last year when Montreal's Divers/Cite festival wasn't funded? This year, no Pride events are being funded.

    This is what happens when you don't shut the fuck up. Thanks, Senator Ruth, for the sage advice, even if you disgust me for being associated with Harper and his band of thugs.

  10. Evangelicals with their hand out for money – I don't trust them – do you?

    • And I should trust misandrists with their hands out for money …… Do you have even 1 piece of evidence that government money supports the evangelists? Please, give me one piece of actual evidence that public money is spent by these people anywhere. Meanwhile, taxpayers have been supporting over 600 groups of lesbian man haters here in Canada.

      Try to make your lies believable …. !

      • Okay, here's "one piece of actual evidence:"

        $495,600 to Wycliffe Bible Translators, self-described as evangelical mission http://tinyurl.com/3acza2p

        Now, over to you to provide the evidence on your contention taxpayers have "been supporting 600 lesbian groups of man haters."

  11. Mr. McVety is feeling ebullient following his victory in Ontario. This is the kind of right-wing triumphalism that always leads the Harper Tories back to minority from majority territory.

    • So call an election!

  12. ps…take Senator Ruth's advice,
    if this becomes an election issue Canadians may actually find out we have no abortion law in Canada…they won't react positively

    • Conservatives threatening – always effective. And way to confirm the hidden agenda.

      • OK killer! If the agenda is known to the likes of you, how is it hidden?

        Call an election! Settle the issue!

        • Heavens no, not before the real Steohen Harper reveals himself. Which he's been doing a lot of lately. All in good time.

          • ويجهل البقر

            O'Kay ….. So shut the f___ up!

    • Hi wilson.

      Somehow I think the opposition are willing to take that chance. I suspect it is Harper who is afraid of an election over abortion rights in this country.

      But it is cute the way you act like you are handing out friendly advice.

      • A non-confidence vote is in the hands of the opposition, not the minority leader!

        But it is cute the way you invent a lie.

    • I dunno, Chretien won his last majority on Stockwell Day's anti-abortion talk.

  13. And the business of money makers of organized religions:

    Corporate Greed and the Religion of Wealth: In the temple courts [Jesus] found men selling cattle, sheep and doves and other
    sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle;
    he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. [John 2:14 & 15.] Watch out! Be on your guard against
    all kinds of greed; a man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions. [Luke 12.15.] Truly, I say unto you, it will
    be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. [Matthew 19:23] You cannot serve both God and Money. [Matthew 6:24.]

    Now, STFU

    • Sick little bugger ….. does that mean that you do or do not support spending Canadians tax dollars in Africa to be used only for abortions? Or does Sunday just bring out the ultra reformed in you?

  14. Why did the Harper government choose to select child and maternal health as their focus for the G8 and then after much double-talk and obfuscation finally admit to eliminating abortion from that focus? It was not to re-open the abortion debate, it was to tell the majority of Canadians to STFU because this government is going to do as it damned well pleases. Instead of focusing on the critical areas of adequate shelter, safe water, and health, they chose to focus on a loaded issue that they could exploit to their own advantage – it's not about foreign aid, it's about giving their base what it wants.

  15. Blah, blah, blah…This is not news. This soap opera, this daily dose of sleaze, brain dead nonsense from CTV, CBC, the mainstream media, and its also a big part of the reason people are tuning you clowns out. You are no different then the comedy show that goes on daily on Parliament hill. Spin, lies, corruption, blame, scandals…what a joke this country has become. Like the politicians the media is as much to blame for the socialist cesspool this country has become. Yes it has left Quebec and is spreading across the country. The only difference between the CBC and CTV now is that one sucks 1 billion dollars a year out of the taxpayer's pockets. CBC, CTV, Liberal, Tory, same old story. Both have destroyed our economy and our proud English speaking, UEL history, all a disgrace to the country. What a mess.

    • Tut tut…you've been making the same "arguments" all over the web under different names it would seem. Your comments don't seem to make much sense, no matter which fora you cut and paste them into.

      From the Globe and Mail:


      5/8/2010 11:18:27 AM
      Blah, blah, blah…This is not news. This soap opera, this daily dose of sleaze, brain dead nonsense from CTV, CBC, the mainstream media, and its also a big part of the reason people are tuning you clowns out. You are no different then the comedy show that goes on daily on Parliament hill. Spin, lies, corruption, blame, scandals…what a joke this country has become. Like the politicians the media is as much to blame for the socialist cesspool this country has become. Yes it has left Quebec and is spreading across the country. The only difference between the CBC and CTV now is that one sucks 1 billion dollars a year out of the taxpayer's pockets. CBC, CTV, Liberal, Tory, same old story. Both have destroyed our economy and our proud English speaking, UEL history, all a disgrace to the country. What a mess.Poor Canada.

      • I'm OK with the cut and paste work (don't tell anyone, but I do that all the time at work), but I am curious about the name change….

        Perhaps James liked what ASilvestro had posted over at G&M so much that he decided to copy it over to macleans. But without even a hint that it was copied from someone else, now that is bad style.

  16. Why has this turned into a Tory vs Liberal discussion? The abortion debate transcends the divide between parties, and that opponents and proponents of abortion are found in both major parties.

    It was the Liberals that helped defeat their own motion on maternal health weeks ago. The House of Commons voted against this maternal health initiative, not the Conservatives alone. Why focus on the Tories, rather than on the Liberal handful of MPs that are pro-life? Convince those Liberal MPs, and then the opposition will be able to pass whatever bill they please on abortion.

    • Good question …. I got pis*ed because all I was reading was Harper bashing so I acted accordingly. I'm glad one person out there got the point!

      I'm agin it!

      • From your responses, I'm putting you on my ignore button. You're crazy and scary.

        "Click" – gone

        • "Click" – gone …. what a sick little wiener you are!

          OT – I shall never ignore you – Second in my nature is that I am a contrarian and I suspect any position you will take I will oppose because you run with the herd – you don't lead it, you can't lead it and you never will lead it …. so you are just a mindless reactive herd animal looking to justify your existence with comforting agreement from other herd animals just exactly like you.

          You cannot even recognize satire ….. so run little herd person …. I may be the lion hunting and killing only to eat and not for the pleasure of the killing only.

          Abortion is the killing of a potential human being ….. and Africa's problems will never be solved by well intended misinformed arrogant pinheads like you …. they will change only when they have to but if you believe you can have any effect, send me your email, address and name and I'll sent you to a whole bunch of Nigerians who would like to write letters to you.

          • "Click" on not worth a response button ….done

          • OT – You give up too easily for a true believer ….. no faith in your positions, what ever they may be since I think I got lost in your bible thumping.

            Remind me …. are you for or agin killing unborn children?

          • "Click" – delete

          • Bwaaa HaHaHa HaHa What a childish wiener you are Mr/Ms baby killer! See below so you can demonstrate your ignorance once more. I get a picture of the weak character in a comedy routine who looks between his fingers which show his nemesis head between them and he just squeezes his fingers together "crushing" that person's head.

            It would be funny if that was not what they did to the heads of not yet born children, they crush them with forceps so that the head can pass through an unprepared and unstretched birth channel ….
            I can get some photo's if you want proof – thousands and thousands of them of little crushed hears with eyes popped out and blackened tongue protruding and a lot of them showing the severed head alone.

            Suck it up OT. You are truly a deliberate and wantonly cruel sub-human unworthy of your God's promise of salvation and very much worthy of this agnostic's contempt!

          • Ikay, George you don't get the message. When your name shows up on my email/Intense Debate – I don't read it. I delete you automatically.

            Click – delete

          • OT here reminds me of the last years of George Carlin's life when he went about telling people what they actually were, the truth about their existence and the lack of control they had in their lives to the benefit of some more powerful persons, and his audiences laughed and clapped.

            They actually thought his take was comedy, just entertainment!

            Most of you here are all happy little sheep following your Judas goats like Henry Morgentaler and Hillery Clinton down the road of defending and justifying the murder of unborn children.

            PDS – that's pretty damn sick!

  17. Paying Taxes & Separation of Church & State: Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the
    things that are God's. [Matthew 22:21]

    Public Prayer & Displays of Faith: And when thou pray, thou shall not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in
    the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
    But thou, when thou pray, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret…
    [Matthew 6:6 & 7]

    …….hey there George and all you right wing religious nuts – time to pay heed to Christ's teachings, not the money making organized religions.

    • I can't thank you enough for this.

      I've been having trouble coming to terms with people criticizing me for not going to church while they are only being catholic when they're in church. This is exactly the kind of teachings I wished I could give them.

      • I bet you've never heard a religious zealot bother with this part of the Bible.

        Why do we need the middle man.

        • No, actually.

          I liked hearing or reading about the new testament, but nothing I heard told me that Jesus wished for his teachings to be institutionalized.

    • Hey Ontario …. I believe that extraterrestrial beings came down and screwed some monkeys and here we are.

      I reject all 3 of your controlling religions from the middle east since I do not worship ancient jews. Far too much justified or rationalized killings in the books there for me!

      For the time that I will animate the earth elements I am made from, I will oppose needless killings without instructions form dead jews …. got it! Don't need them … can think for myself!

  18. A public school run by a religious group? Bad idea, these days.

    • So you would impose your standards on what is a public school? Scary!

      Did you find out why they are building a public school and the taxpayers are not?

      Of course not …. you just filter it through your bias and react.

      What about a religious group getting money to train refugees Canadian survival skills …. some who well may be the victims of the very culture you would like to change. No comment on that? Iggy apparently does not like it.

      What about a new industry for Canada …. no problems with that …. liberals told the CBC they do.

      A wee bit disingenuous by the libs and CBC wouldn't you say?

      Sorry, I have to go end this because I am marching in a group to have a Canadian Child returned to Canada from his captivity in the US and he is more important to me then all of Africa.


      • Bore.

        • You —- a demanding masochist?

          Did a little checking —- the school is building a school because they have a backlog of up to 3,500 applications for children to transfer in …. dissatisfaction with the actual "public" school system quoted as the main reason for this. Applicants include all religions and some who profess to have no religion …. attraction is academic standards and building program is supported by several U of C full profs who claimed they preferred students from religious schools because the University did not have to teach those students elementary school skills.

          Anyway …. What is the hysteria about Africa? The death rate for illegal abortions is much higher in South America and the culture (mostly) values women

          Does it not bother you that Indians and other in Asia routinely kill unborn female children because they have no value to the family?

          I oppose exporting ugly American values anywhere. And they are ugly American values most certainly.

          • No links, no evidence to back up your claims, no credibility.

          • George I'm still waiting for your list of "600 Lesbian man hating groups." I supplied the evidence that self-described evangelists were receiving funds. Time for you to put up or retract your ridiculous claim.

  19. "…Two thirds of unsafe abortions occur among women aged between 15 and 30 years. Around 2.5 million, or almost 14% of all unsafe abortions in developing countries, are among women under 20 years of age. The age pattern of unsafe abortions differs markedly from region to region. The proportion of women aged 15–19 years in Africa who have had an unsafe abortion is higher than in any other region and almost 60% of unsafe abortions are among women aged less than 25 years…."

    • "…The proportion of women who become pregnant before age 15 years varies enormously even within regions – in sub-Saharan Africa, for example, the rate in Rwanda is 0.3% versus 12.2% in Mozambique…."

      "…In Latin America, the risk of maternal death is four times higher among adolescents younger than 16 years than among women in their twenties…"

      • Thanks Holly.

        I only skimmed your replies so far, but from that brief glance it seems that I'm going to have to assemble the numbers into the format for which I was hoping.

        I'll try to post a reply….probably will take a few days.

  20. "…Unintended and unwanted pregnancies – owing to unmet need for contraception, to contraceptive failure, or to unwanted sex – if brought to term, carry at least the same risks as those that are desired and deliberate. It is estimated that up to 100 000 maternal deaths could be avoided each year if women who did not want children used effective contraception ( 90 ). When maternal illnesses are also taken into account, preventing unwanted pregnancies could avert, each year, the loss of 4.5 million disability-adjusted life years ( 91 )…."

    "…However, more than 18 million induced abortions each year are performed by people lacking the necessary skills or in an environment lacking the minimal medical standards, or both, and are therefore unsafe ( 93 , 94 ). Almost all take place in the developing world. With 34 unsafe abortions per 1000 women, South America has the highest ratio, closely followed by eastern Africa (31 per 1000 women), western Africa (25 per 1000 women), central Africa (22 per 1000 women), and south Asia (22 per 1000 women) ( 93 )…"

  21. "…really rare cases where the mother will actually die if the baby is carried to term…" Not really rare and a C-section won't solve every case; see the links above to the WHO information.

    You realise that you are risking the lives of some women by insisting that they wait until a C-section can be done in the often vain hope of producing a live child? And in the rare cases that a living baby is born, it will probably die because its mother is dead or crippled.

    • During a visit to my relatives, they said they seemed to be hearing more about women they knew having miscarriages. They speculated it's from the processed food people eat; or maybe the environmental effects of all the chemical stuff around. What are you doing about making a better environment so people can children they want?

      Or do you think God is aborting those fetuses for unknown purposes?

      • Let's see, you have had your uterine tissues scrapped once or twice during previous abortions and that created surface scar tissue – now you wish a pregnancy and so when the egg fertilizes and attaches to the uterine wall it's anchor tries to grow over that scar tissue and it cannot anchor properly … the baby increases in size and the umbilical cord loses its anchor and the mother miscarries —— I speculated that this information was never shared about the risks and consequences of abortion to women who really believed that they could f**k with nature to do it all "their way".

        No I think a little mass murder like Henry M. got assistance from people like you to suppress the risks of multiple previous abortions to the future of carrying a baby to term …. abortion = sterility for some women and breast cancer for others ….. want to argue?

        Oh, by the by ugly little Henry M. is not God and he has a purpose …. get even with the goem for killing his family in Poland.

  22. The fact that the STFU gov. has assigned one of their trolls here full time suggests that their tactic to re-open the abortion debate isn't working out quite as planned.

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