Silly question


 

If Stephane Dion had, while Liberal leader, pulled approximately the same move that Mr. Ignatieff pulled today, wouldn’t he have been mocked, or further mocked, as a ninny?

On a not-unrelated note, Toronto Mayor David Miller’s “Looks Like A Mayor, Talks Like A Mayor” campaign in 2003 continues to prove wildly instructive.


 

Silly question

  1. If Stephane Dion had, while Liberal leader, pulled approximately the same move that Mr. Ignatieff pulled today, wouldn’t he have been mocked, or further mocked, as a ninny?

    Yes. Because Harper would have called his bluff and he would have caved again. Because he is a ninny,

    • Don’t you know it’s not polite to speak ill of the dead?

  2. Yes indeed Dion would have been mocked furiously, curiously though is that most of the mockery would have come from those ‘ trusted inside sources ‘ (code word for Iggy supporters) inside the LPC. What can you say welcome to canadian politics 101 – how much do you want to bet that in the next while Mulcair will be interviewed – the result being something along the line of – you know this coalition might just might now have suffered from bad timing what with being days after an election and all and I was concerned at the time with respect to the wisdon of the timing bla bla bla (the next sound you hear = ginzo political knive sharpening)

    • Wayne, if you’re going to copy-paste comments in different threads you could at least change the spelling mistakes that have already been pointed out to you…

      • LOFL.

        In the immortal words of someone who shall remain nameless, “It’s like trying to teach calculus to an Irish Setter.”

    • Whut and sacrafese his authunticie. Nver, mun due. He is an arteest, no?

  3. Of course.

    Dion the weak turned Harper into a guy who campaigned on leaving Afghanistan and cap-n-trade enviropolicy. This budget is due to the coalition he was to lead. But Ignatieff the strong is given credit, despite his windvane act.

    This is a simply a matter of the media picking a favoured narrative and running with it.

  4. I like Mayor Miller and at first I thought Barbara Hall’s attack on the “Looks like a Mayor” campaign was ridiculous and smacked of desperation (which it surely was) but on later reflection I think there was something to it.

    I don’t believe it was then-candidate Miller’s inention to say that only causcasion lawyers over 6ft. with blonde hair who were born in England, played rugby and went to Harvard are qualified to run for or be mayor but there was something – even if only subliminal – in those posters that did play to certain pre-conceived notions of what makes a leader. Even if the message were subliminally there it wouldn’t correspond in any way to his personal beliefs (Mayor Miller’s wife is of Venezuelan origin btw).

  5. Are you asking if they would have made fun of Stephanie? The man who Harper could not presume on his ability to be a family man? The guy that was dumb enough to marry an intelligent woman? The guy who spoke funny, like you know, with a French accent?

    • The guy that was dumb enough to marry an intelligent woman?

      Harper married an intelligent woman. So did Layton. So did Ignatieff.

      Dion was an Icarus who flew too close to the sun and got burned. A failure, but there is still some nobility in the attempt.

      Dion just lacked certain core competencies required of a political leader. He was a lamb surrounded by wolves. Some of the hungriest wolves were in his own party.

      • Harper certainly married a woman smart enough to take his name when he became leader of the Conservative Party. The Harper s certainly did not want the Mrs. to be viewed as anything but a submissive blonde beside the big guy. Ask Stephen Taylor about it – I am told he inhabits these pages, somewhere.

      • From what I could find on the web, Dion is the only political leader you have named whose wife holds a PhD. The others, I am sure, are intelligent, but to have a highly-educated wife is not an asset for a politician. Chatelaine asked the question about Krieber – political asset or liability? This is not a partisan comment. I am old enough to remember the brouhaha around Joe Clark and Maureen McTeer. Both Dion and Clark were portrayed as weak, mostly because of their wife. It is sad, really, because it will stop highly-competent men, who have married highly-educated women, from entering politics.

        Isn’t that what the Conservatives are trying to sell us about Harper? Isn’t he an ordinary guy? With an ordinary wife, who went to journalism school (seems that she did not graduate). Soon we may find out that his ambition is to sell bathtubs at Home Depot when he retires from politics. Til then, he shall lead our country through these difficult years… Steve The Plumber.

        • I like Maureen McTeer, and I agree with you that her outspokenness and the “last name brouhaha” hurt Joe politically back in 1979, when sexism and chauvinism were very much part of the political climate.

          But times have changed in the last 30 years. I honestly don’t think that Janine Krieber had any effect whatsoever on her husband’s political fortunes, even if there was some silly article published in Chatelaine. And I don’t think it’s fair to Laureen to paint her as a submissive, blonde Stepford wife just because her husband happens to be Stephen Harper.

          • You really believe sexism and chauvinism have disappeared from the political landscape ? Were you away from the country when Belinda Stronach was in politics ?

            Laureen Teskey became Laureen Harper when Steve became leader of his party – and this was done purposely because they realized that chauvinism and sexism are very much alive in Canada. I don’t think Laureen is a submissive, blonde Stepford wife but I think they are quite content if she is seen as such.

            Look it up if you want, but I vividly remember reading Norman Spector during the campaign, urging Dion to leave the wife at home – it was bad for Dion’s image to be seen with Krieber. Oddly, I never read Spector urging Stephen to leave Laureen at home – and we saw Laureen often.

            Of course, all this doesn’t explain the Stephanies.

            By the way, I was near the Simpsons desert, in Australia, during the campaign, and faithfully read the news on internet and shared my reading with my Australian friends and family. They could not understand the issue raised over Dion’s heavy French accent – they could not imagine that a Canadian prime minister would not have a French accent – it’s easy to understand why!

    • The man who Harper could not presume on his ability to be a family man?

      Yeah, what was that all about? Was Harper off his mood elevators that day?

  6. Conservative party pundit, fellow of the Preston Manning Institute for Building Democracy, political entrepreneur, scientist and (finally) Macleans blogger Stephen Taylor has already mocked Ignatieff.

    So, would Dion have been mocked? Of course. As a ninny? Probably.
    Would the mocking have been cretinous? Absolutely.

    • The difference, Ti-Guy, is that the press gallery isn’t joining in. That the Tories would mock Iggy is expected. What I find interesting is the accolades that Iggy is receiving from the press gallery for doing about the same thing they crucified Dion for.

      Of course, it does change things to not have a steady stream of “anonymous senior liberal insiders” feeding material 24/7.

      Still, the about-face here is rather spectacular.

  7. The Conservative world is collapsing, albeit slower than the ninny Jack Layton would have it happen. I’m trying to think of a Conservative ideal that Steve Harper hasn’t abandoned yet. The list must be short.

    Question from the CBC: “With a federal budget projecting that Canada will be $85 billion further in debt by 2013, some Conservative party faithful are questioning what it means for the party’s ideology.”

    Answer: It means you’ve abandoned your Conservative ideology and are now one the path to prove how badly Harper and Flaherty can manage the economy in the year ahead, courtesy of Ignatieff.

    • Yeah, but you still get to call yourself a Conservative. What more do you need?

      • I’m not sure i like this abandoning of principle willy nilly. If we arent careful we’ll all end up…Liberals. Ouch! I could wind up in liberal purgatory for that! Or i could simply join the cons – same diff.

        • no

          really

          hand that plan to someone five years ago and have them guess which party wrote it.

          I’m SO confused. heh

  8. Actually it is a silly question. If Dion had been in Iggy’s shoes he would have voted against the budget and would have tried to form a coalition with his lefty friends. When the GG would have shown him the door his Liberals cohorts would then have put him out of his misery because they would could not have survived another election campaign with that inept excuse of a politician at the helm.

    • When the GG would have shown him the door his Liberals cohorts would then have put him out of his misery…

      Man, that’s bad grammar. And the Conservatives mocked Dion’s English…

    • Well Jarrid, we’ve got rid of our inept excuse of a politician.When are you gonna get rid of yrs?

  9. Well you are all just plain wrong. Lets face it, the reason Ignatieff was not mocked was that it was clear that Harper was pandering to him. With every right of centre commentator calling this a Liberal budget (complete with literary sneers) it was fairly easy for Ignatieff to slap Harper about a bit and then let it go forward.
    Could Dion have ever forced Harper to backtrack and change policy? (Well actually he did that too… he was the leader in December)
    In retrospect the coalition was an outstanding success, outright failure, useful arrangement and then discarded as time passed on… but I don’t believe we are done with it yet.

    • Why? Is Dion coming back for an encore? Ooh! He’s already done that, hasn’t he!

    • “Well you are all just plain wrong. Lets face it, the reason Ignatieff was not mocked was that it was clear that Harper was pandering to him. ”

      Yes but Stewart, the reason why Harper is doing the pandering is because of the threat of a coalition. And who is responsible for this threat? Certainly NOT Iggy but the one that was unceremoniously tarred and feathered all the way to the backbench.

      Iggy is now in a position of strength (according to the press) because of what Dion did yet he is the one receiving the accolades while Dion continues to be mocked.

      • The press love a winner! That’s my theory anyway

        • The press is supposed to be impartial.

          • Impartial! You jest sir! Besides they’re human too! I think?

  10. Didn’t you hear Duceppe mock Ignatieff?

    • Yeah. i think he called him a c****. But he meant to say Count didn’t he?

  11. No doubt if Dion was still leader and had tried this, Harper would have come back with the ultimate poison pill and forced an election, stomping on Dion’s toes at the debate and put on a twilly hat, and thrashed Dion again with one of the more landslide minority wins in Canadian history.
    That Harper – now what will he do without his favourite foil?

  12. “and thrashed Dion again with one of the more landslide minority wins in Canadian history.”

    Best line of the night.

  13. Dion must be feeling pretty dumb, not having thought of a brilliant idea like REPORT CARDS

  14. Even if it WAS the same stunt the rhetoric leading up to it would have been as different as night and day.

  15. “If Stephane Dion had, while Liberal leader, pulled approximately the same move that Mr. Ignatieff pulled today, wouldn’t he have been mocked, or further mocked, as a ninny?”

    I’ve been saying the same thing for the past 24 hours. Funny how a lack of accent changes everyone’s outlook on things.

    • So, we’re all racists, is that yr theory?

      • No kc. My theory is that Dion has been treated unfairly by the press and the evidence is in the fact that Iggy is being praised for doing the same thing that Dion was attacked for.

        • Poljunkie
          In the immortal words of W, ” so what!”
          i saw Dion mocked in ways that made me sick, and by our honourable parliamntarians.

          • So what? Well… Isn’t this the topic of this post?

    • How do you explain Chretien and his three majority governments if all Canadians care about is accents?

      • My issue is not with the voters. My issue is with the press gallery for what I see to be a clear bias against Dion. The number of times that Dion’s accent was made an issue by that group was just plain unacceptable.

      • Everyone loves a winner! One of the least charming aspects of our species.

        • I think that everyone loves the one the media pundits tell them is a winner.

          Big difference.

  16. Mr. Wherry’s observation is bang on. This was a terrible decision by Ignatieff, though my guess is that it won’t be apparent until the fall, when he will have spent many months becoming co-owner of the recession and all the failed stimulus moves.

    By then the commentariat and punditaratti who are today applauding Ignatieff’s mature and responsible leadership will have all agreed that they saw his demise coming way back in January when he supported the budget.