So you want to raise some money for female candidates…

Trudeau and sexism… and China?


The invite for last night’s fundraiser with Justin Trudeau was probably worth consideration and those who took offence are certainly entitled to their views, but, in the resulting furor, a scrum with two ministers of the crown to respond to the invite was a bit much, but sexism in politics is an interesting and a worthwhile topic for discussion and it is good that at least last night’s event raised $25,000 to assist female candidates.

But then there is what Mr. Trudeau actually said last night, specifically when he was asked which nation’s administration he admired most, specifically the part of his answer that involves China.

You know, there’s a level of of admiration I actually have for China because their basic dictatorship is allowing them to actually turn their economy around on a dime and say ‘we need to go green fastest…we need to start investing in solar.’ I mean there is a flexibility that I know Stephen Harper must dream about of having a dictatorship that he can do everything he wanted that I find quite interesting.

China might be doing some interesting things on solar power, but it’s still China, a single-party communist with serious environmental and human rights concerns. I suppose if you asked me which country’s administration I admired most I wouldn’t have an answer at the ready, but I’m not sure China would be among the first considerations. And, of course, a politician has to be much more careful about these things than I do.

The second half of his response has more merit (though the Yukon does have political parties), in which he seems to place the Canadian territories slightly above China in terms of his admiration.

Update 11:34am. Via Twitter, Mr. Trudeau explains himself.

I pointed out that globally Canada is up against big countries (China, for one) that can address some major issues quickly.

It’s ridiculous for anyone to suggest that I of all people would trade our rights and freedoms for any other system of gvt.

Some countries play by rules we wouldn’t and shouldn’t ever accept, but, we still have to compete with them.

We need to get better at coming together to address big issues, and that’s what I asked people to think about last night.


So you want to raise some money for female candidates…

  1. Colour me surprised the Dauphin admires murderous dictators because they get things done. And what an ignorant answer on environment and greatness of ChiComs getting things done – here in Ont our own el presidente built windmills without too much fuss and many European countries have green industry without dictatorships.

    The Dauphin admires China because he is envious of their princelings – in China, the children of the elite can steal millions of $$$ from average people while here in Canada Trudeau could only siphon thousands of $$$ from working people. The Dauphin knows he is a piker in stealing money from the public, that’s why he attracted to China, China’s 1% can steal much more from the public than Canada’s 1% can and Trudeau’s jealous.

    • See, you started off bad, switched to being pretty reasonable in the middle of the argument, then went full-on bugf##k crazy at the end.

      Maybe you should stick to just writing the stuff in the middle.

      • Indeed, the middle road is always best.

    • Jeez, I would’ve thought Trudeau’s comment was ripe for a thoughtful, mature, perhaps even self-evident, critical response.

      Instead, you show up with this?

  2. He’s not the first one to make this observation. China has been able to raze whole cities and build modern, efficient (maybe sterile) ones. High speed trains, whole new network of highways. And if you look at the make-up of the Central Committee, many are engineers. Which no doubt helps in this effort.

    Of course, there are many social costs to this approach as well. Especially for those displaced.

    • Yes, even Dubya said that.

      • So now Justin Trudeau and George W. Bush are in agreement on things? I’m sure that’ll win him Liberal votes. LOL. I will continue to say this: Justin Trudeau is just plain STUPID.

        • When Alison Redford goes on trade missions to China, do you suppose she ever makes positive comments to her hosts concerning the progress they’ve made over the past say twenty years in an effort to gain more AB investment?

          Or just an expensive opportunity to hector one on one, on behalf of her constituents?

          • You don’t see the difference between complementing China on progress they’ve made, and saying you admire their dictatorial human-rights abusing form of government?

            I like lots of things about China, but their form of government definitely isn’t one of those things. Trudeau apparently feels differently.

            And make no mistake about it, their ability to “turn the economy around on a dime” has EVERYTHING to do with their human rights abuses.

          • I thought he qualified his comments – limited to economy and greening. Hard to argue with the economic progress – what 10%/yr compunded?

            Greening? Well, lots of new coal plants as well (some using BC coal)- not so sure (maybe limited to solar in isolation).

          • What you clearly don’t understand, and neither does Trudeau, apparently, is that the only reason China can 10%/year growth is BECAUSE of their human rights abuses and lack of democracy.

          • Nope. Opening up to foreign investment. Relaxing/reducing state controls. WTO etc.

          • So they’re doing all the same things the Harper government’s been doing for years. Why don’t we see 10% growth per year? Because we’re not abusing human rights in the process. You notice how in Canada we come to agreements with native’s over natural resources? In China they don’t, the government just takes what they want and leave massive numbers of people displaced. You and Trudeau think that’s a good idea for Canada to try?

          • Read some history.

            When you have a huge population, and your per capita GDP is a fraction of other countries, and has been held that way for decades, catching up requires high, continuous, exponential growth.

            Germany, Japan and China have traditionally been world economic powerhouses over history. The “Middle Kingdom” is on its way back after a failed experiment with Communism. It’s like a pressure cooker, the steam is being released in a controlled fashion. And yes, problems that you highlight remain, and will do so for quite sometime to come.

          • Brazil and India, to name only a few countries, are lifting their people out of poverty without crushing their human rights at the same time. The Chinese don’t crush human rights because they have to, they do it because it expedites the process for them.

            If “well we need to catch up to the rest of the world” is the only excuse Liberals need to start removing our human rights here in Canada, I fear greatly for future generations. There will inevitably be a time when we’ll need to do some catching up too, you know.

          • Probably the biggest reason we are not seeing 10% growth is that we (the West in general) are starting from a more advanced state of our economies so our growth is likely to be more incremental, at best in line with population growth.

            China, India, Brazil, the smaller developing Asian economies are starting from so far back that achieving 10% is relatively easy just by using their vast labour pools to produce low cost goods that do not require a highly skilled workforce.

            Whenever we see a high growth rate in the West, its usually due to some fortuitous circumstance (say, resources in some cases) or artificial booms that ultimately collapse hard (dot com, housing).

            Another way of looking at it is, we are working closer to our potential, when other countries have much more potential to draw from.

            Certainly the coercive natures of some countries could add a bit more to the growth rates by allowing more focused development (see Stalin’s 5 year plans or 1930’s Germany), but I think objectively that would not be the main component.

          • That’s not what he said, but you’ve never let the facts get in the way before so why start now?

          • This comment was deleted.

          • Here are some more. The sun rises in the east, and sets in the west.

            But of course they are not relevant to the topic either.

          • Well he can believe whatever he wants, doesn’t make it factual, just surmise and opinion.

        • LOL puir wee Ricky.

          • I see you’re speaking in tongues again. That’s usually a sign you need to take your medication.

          • LOL yer gonna hafta lay in a bigger supply of toothpaste if you want to keep foaming at the mouth over trivia for the next two years.

          • Seriously. Meds. Now!

          • LOL Spit. Rinse. Now!

          • trivia your ass, your head is so far up your ass that you are breathing fresh air. When the press finally start asking this pretty boy questions, his qualifications and substance will show up.

          • Just got up? Missed your morning coffee did you?

            Or are you too brushing your teeth?

          • at least i got up, unlike you ,your still in kansas., lol

          • Well go back to bed and get up again….and not on the wrong side of the bed this time.

            There is no need to attack a poster because of your partisanship.

          • ha, you are obviously speaking from expierience, lol.

          • Yup, there is a whole crowd of partisan shills on here….who attack other posters….because they can’t discuss the topic. Mostly they post talking points from HQ

          • read my previous comment again, it is still true when it comes to you, lol.

          • I pay no attention to attempted bullying…so don’t waste your time

          • that is because you’re usually doing the bullying, and now you cry bullying, you are quite emotional aren,t you.

          • Your apostrophe’s pants are on the ground, Bieber.

  3. I don’t think it’s fair to say Justin said his favourite administration was China. it IS safe to say that when asked about his favourite administration, he didn’t answer the question, made some remarks about China (probably a factoid he had prepared about Green energy) then brought the question back to the one country that was excluded by the question.

    I tried to think of a “safe” answer and it took me about 120 seconds. (It would be “Engalnd, because it’s given us and many other countries so many of our parliamentary traditions, a system which has been the bedrock of many of hte world’s most enduring democracies”). Still, that was with no pressure and I am glad a microphone was not in my face for those 120 seconds. OTOH, he was the one who was prepared to take unscripted questions.

    • Exactly !
      Justin should not be expected to have a reasonable answer at the ready for any random question thrown out there.
      Of course China is a dubious response, but hey, there`s stuff from China in all the shops now, and there`s lots of good bargains out there now and you know women, they like a bargain, so maybe he is just playing the crowd.

      And like Mr. Wherry says, the profits from the $250 per person event did go to female Liberal candidates, that`s good, and the women Ministers who responded negatively was ” a bit much “, that`s bad, and Justin just explained himself on twitter—he was just kiddin about China–that`s good.

    • “I tried to think of a “safe” answer and it took me about 120 seconds.”

      USA, Japan, South Korea, Germany, France, Iceland, Ireland, Spain, Denmark, Finland, Sweden, Italy, Switzerland, Botswana …. etc. It doesn’t seem all that difficult to think of, and choose, a democracy.

      • pretty sure they didn’t pay $250 for a one word answer.

        • Or for pre-written “safe” answers! Why would JT try to take over the pm’s schtick?

          • probably because of exactly what is going on now.

          • Manning said he believes Wright was motivated by two things: Repay
            Duffy’s expenses to the taxpayer, and keep Harper “out of it.”

            “I just think his motivation was honourable and commendable.”

          • Huh??? What does this have to do with the discussion?

          • Wrong thread, Francie but it is interesting that the move to protect Wright’s reputation is in full swing.

        • Apparently they paid $250 for dangerously stupid answers.

          • Justin and his freudian slips will continue! Eventually, the media will get tired of having to defend him. I mean, the media does not want to look foolish forever.

          • Hey, you guys are answering serious questions about due process with quaint stories of pizza delivery men. Maybe you be exhibiting a little modesty about answering questions.

      • You admire the USA at this particular moment in their history? And Italy – following what’s going on over there?

      • Problem was JT does these fundraisers without a teleprompter. Prime Minister Harper uses a teleprompter most of the time and when he doesn’t, you get the “no” and no rules for foreign investment comments. It’s quite entertaining to see JT work a room. His security is there but never get in between JT and the crowd. Mickey Rempel’s outrage was comical and truly did a disservice to the CPC and women voters.

    • So your defense of Trudeau amounts to claiming that he can’t even answer a simple question like “What’s your favorite administration”?

      He could have answered the question in almost any way other than what he did, but as usual, his response was the STUPIDEST response anybody could have possibly come up with.

      • Not a defence, offering perspective.

        i realize you would not be familiar.

      • Maybe Harper can be asked that question in QP?

    • It should be noted that the original fundraiser was closed to the press. Apparently they decided to let the press in shortly before the event started. The fundraisers and JT foresaw what this would look like, “an elitist closed door gathering.” I hope MacLean’s and the writer were throwing this out there to see if it trends and sells magazines. From what I see, they could have written and article on JT’s “China Syndrome” and continued on with Harper’s “foreign investment goes through me” comment. That would have sold magazines to both sides.. ..just wondering if Sun News has bought this magazine?

  4. Oh hell….I read stuff like this from the Dauphin and my first reaction is usually….oh why didn’t they choose Marc Garneau.

    • Marc Garneau is a washed up old scientist-astronaut who does not belong as leader of a Party that puts on a women-only event where a lovely, sensitive man like Justin can convince impressionable women to surrender $250 to talk about their favourite virtue.

      • Line of the day….thx for that!

        • You`re welcome. Thanks for the set-up.

      • May I ask you if that simpering, unschooled tone you’re using is meant to emulate a simpering woman who’s so stupid she only wants to talk to the future pm because he’s dreamy and she’s “impressionable?” Because that would seem mighty sexist of you.

        • This comment was deleted.

          • Sorry Francie….come again? I think you may have posted this here by accident? Lord knows I can understand you losing track of which post you’re responding to….your postings are somewhat epic :)

          • That’s twice… and it makes no more sense the second time around.

          • You’re brain seems to be skipping – it’s playing this over and over and over again. Here and the Post.

        • Certainly you may ask, however, I`m not nearly a good enough writer to ” emulate a simpering woman”.

          You should have recognized the conscious effort by the LPC to use the physical attractiveness of their leader to influence the natural desires of one gender to the other. That may not be the reason why you support Trudeau, however, the Liberals are banking on influencing many other women in a more shallow way.

          The Liberal Party were being sexist for promoting last night`s event. I am being realistic in explaining that to you.

          • Meanwhile Harper is pimping his hockey book to appeal to men
            who he thinks will fall for his ‘regular guy’ image.

        • I just hope Justin will drive them to their polling station, because they sound too stupid to find it without a robocall! Elections Canada can update the box beside his name with flowing hair and a goatee to make it easier!

        • Sounds like everything Rempell accused Trudeau of…

    • he could have eaten into the libertarian con vote by saying “Well I like space, where’s there’s no government!” :)

    • No kidding. The Liberals had a choice between and actual rocket scientist, and a pot-head substitute drama teacher…. and they chose the pot-head.

      And now we find out this pot-head admires human rights abusing dictatorships for their ability to get things done.

      It’s almost as if the backroom Liberals decided that since they failed with smart, intelligent people like Dion and Ignatieff that they’d try the exact opposite and find the dumbest guy in the party to lead.

      Times like this I almost feel sorry for rank-and-file Liberals.

      • I would have considered voting for Martha Hall-Findlay too.

        • In agreement again. IMO, either Garneau or MFH were far better leadership material than Trudeau. And nothing Trudeau’s said or done since becoming leader has changed that opinion. If anything, he’s managed to reinforce it.

          • I’m a Liberal who met all the candidates who came to my city, but I chose Trudeau. I met Garneau and Trudeau on the same day, different venues: Mr Garneau is an impressive man, yet somehow, not as inspiring (or as winnable) as Trudeau (imo). And there are a couple of things he’s done very very well since becoming leader: attracted donations like LPC hasn’t seen in YEARS, and gaining all kinds of media attention, despite LPC being third party. I also believe there will be some amazingly impressive LPC candidates across this country come 2015 — candidates who are recruited by Trudeau.

          • So in reality you voted for Trudeau because of his name and looks, lol.

          • Well, partly for his looks, and partly because he tokes up now and then.

          • I like your honesty, bravo to you and have a great day.

      • I know “pot-head substitute drama teacher” works a lot better for you than math teacher, but if it’s really so bad, there shouldn’t be any need to lie.
        Unless your standard description of Harper is “alcoholic mail-boy”, in which case, carry on.

    • Because the conservatives preferred Garneau.

      It’s not that hard.

      • Yup, that’s how stupid the Liberal Party of Canada is. They had a potential candidate that might have taken some votes form the Conservative’s, but they don’t want anybody who would vote Conservative even thinking about voting Liberal.

        And they wonder why they’re the 3rd place party, while they’re leader goes on and on about how much he respects China’s lack of human rights.

        • Apparently it IS that hard. Sorry, I just can’t help you.

          Good luck!

          • Help me what? I don’t want or need the help of anybody who supports Chinese dictatorships and human rights abuses, thank you very much.

          • Maybe not, but you DO need help in reading, and comprehension, and putting together logical rational arguments.

          • You must be horrified Harper has let the Chinese government do business in Canada.

        • You’re terriifed of him and it shows. Try to be a little cooler about it.

          • Any federal politician who thinks that a Chinese dictatorship is a better form of government than our democracy scares me.

      • But the point is to get more Conservative voters over to the Liberals, no?


        • Winning voters over is typically the goal of electoral politics. The Liberals still don’t understand this. Which is probably why Trudeau’s talking so fondly of Communist dictatorships.

          • And leading in the polls.

    • I’ve been asking myself that since the LPC chose Trudeau as leader.

  5. pere trudeau – “yes, well there are a lot of bleeding hearts around who just don’t like to see people with helmets and guns. All I can say is, go on and bleed, but it is more important to keep law and order in this society than to be worried about weak-kneed people who don’t like the looks of a soldier’s helmet.”

    fils trudeau – “You know, there’s a level of of admiration I actually have for China because their basic dictatorship … “

  6. And could someone ask the Dauphin what he likes best about China’s environment policy and what does he hope to recreate here?
    – A flotilla of 16,000 dead pigs drifted down the river that provides drinking water for China’s largest city, Shanghai. Officials say there was no threat to health, but a leading internet theory held that farmers were dumping diseased pigs that would otherwise have been sold for meat prior to new regulations

    – Disappearing rivers. A three-year national water census revealed that the number of rivers with a catchment area greater than 100 square kilometres has dropped by 28,000 since the 1990s

    – Official newspapers published an international study estimating that outdoor air pollution caused 1.2 million premature deaths in 2010.


  7. LOL Cons must be frantic when they’re jumping on stuff like this for their attacks….and 2 years away from an election at that.

    They’ll all have public nervous breakdowns a la Rob Ford at this rate!

    • This comment was deleted.

      • I don’t have to create scandals at all…..Cons are doing a wonderful job of it on their own. LOL

      • …and DRINK!
        Thanks for the new party game FV.

        • And on a Friday night too!

  8. Trudeau’s comments should have reflected the traditional approach to the Chinese-Canadian relationship: tut-tutting China about human rights and the environment, then bending over backwards to trade with them as much as possible. If he had it all to do over again, I’m sure that would be the approach he’d take.

    • This comment was deleted.

      • Three things:

        1) Your post doesn’t have anything to do with my post, even tangentially. If you want to take issue with something I write, by all means, do so. Try to come a stone’s throw to being on-topic, though, please.

        2) Harper’s in the process of throwing Nigel under the bus. By extension, aren’t you supposed to be throwing him under the bus too? Because this story you’re presenting is flying in the face of the narrative Harper is trying to create.

        3) You still owe me an apology. Now go bug somebody else.

        • Isn’t she special?

      • That’s four! Keep it up, FV; getting a good buzz on.

        • Pace yourself, keith.

  9. How on earth does Justin Trudeau know what Harper dreams about??

    This is what Preston Manning had to say:

    Manning said he believes Wright was motivated by two things: Repay
    Duffy’s expenses to the taxpayer, and keep Harper “out of it.”

    “I just think his motivation was honourable and commendable.”

    • Five!

  10. Tiananmen square? Tibet? The Dalai Lama? Taiwan? Liu Xiaobo? The great leap forward? The cultural revolution? The worst air and water pollution in the world? The one-child policy? GDP per capita that is less than a quarter that of all the developed nations such as Canada? No religious freedom? No free speech?

    Yes, China’s leaders can make quick decisions. Hence the great leap forward, one of the worst atrocities in human history.

    Even today, China’s quick decisions have resulted in the worst environmental record in the world, and Trudeau wants to praise them for their environmental record?

    There’s stupid, and then there’s Trudeau.

    • Will Harper be speaking out on these issues soon. Seems like a perfect opportunity for him to re-affirm his stand against abuses of the Chinese government.

      • Are you a robot? You can’t possibly be human.

  11. The admiring the dictatorship stuff was bad enough. But using speed in “going green” as an example…for China? The most polluted country in the world responsible for the most GHG emissions (I mean *I* don’t care about GHG emissions but I’m pretty sure the Shiny Pony does)?

    That’s a whole new level of stupid.

    Seriously…we only need to look south to see results of entrusting a large democracy to an unvetted, incompetent fool. The results are in plain view, and they are terrifying. We can’t allow this to happen here.

    I’ve lost track of all the stupid things this guy has said since assuming the leadership. He’s clearly not up to this. I’ll ask again…how much more stupid do we have to see before the Sarah Palin “make him unelectable” strategy gets deployed to protect us?

    • BTW is China even a signatory to the Kyoto Accord? If they’re not, then JT’s statement is double-plus stupid, given the standard LPC line that Kyoto is totally awesome and that Harper is an environmental criminal for pulling us out of it.

      • So, not knowing whether or not China is a signatory to Kyoto is the bar by which me measure stupidity?
        Ok then, I’m good with that.

      • I thought Harper thought signing Kyoto was a meaningless gesture?

  12. If I needed to be convinced of just how rabid the Trudeau haters are this thread is really going a long ways to doing it, because it is clear that basic language comprehension is being ignored so as to make all sorts of wild claims about Trudeau and his “real” beliefs. He said, and I quote “You know, there’s a level of of admiration I actually have for China…”, an level of admiration, that is not unchecked admiration, it isn’t by most reasonable reading comprehension standards even saying a lot of admiration. I have long had a level of admiration for Harper’s ability to cloak his abuse of process issues while still thinking they are incredibly damaging and fundamentally unCanadian and opposing them strongly. The biggest mistake Trudeau may be making is assuming that there are still enough people/voters out there who still want real, thoughtful, substantive commentary and observation, even when it can be twisted into ugly attack smears out there. I am hoping and praying that his assumption is correct because without it our political culture and health is doomed regardless of where one sits on the political spectrum. This is clear “gotcha” political thinking being attempted here on this one, and I think that form has been wearing out its welcome and lost a lot of its impact especially over the past decade thanks to the Harperite reliance on it and attack politics more generally.

    One can admire an ability and what one can achieve with it and still not believe it is the way to go for themselves or those they represent, or even those to whom it is used upon. There was a time not so long ago in this country where that sort of nuanced political conversation was the norm, and we were all a lot better off for it. That China can do what it does is admirable in a limited sense, just look at how so many other dictatorships have tried such things and failed even with all the harsh tools at their disposal. So one can find a limited basis for admiration in such achievement while still not believing it is the right way to go, or something that would be healthy for Canada. To go there based off of the statement he made last night is to clearly put words in Trudeau mouth that he never even came close to saying. Too often these days we see this sort of revisionism in our political discourse, and to me it is one of the most toxic aspects of modern politics. If anything it underscores just how far our political discourse norms have fallen over the past few decades to the great detriment of Canada.

    It is also worth noting that Trudeau does not tend to use scripted statements much, especially outside of QP in the House, and last I checked that was a good thing. However, it increases the risk of saying something in a less than flawless way every time that can be twisted into an attack, a smear, and a falsehood and substituted by his political opponents as being what he really said/meant. Yet people complain about how scripted politics is, how much the political dialogue is empty and without substance, well you can’t have it both says. I would much rather see in our politicians and our party leaders/ PMs people willing to speak what they think on substantive issues in things other than talking points and what is the most basic retail political means. I want to see serious consideration return to Canadian politics, I want to return to when we considered policy and process as important as personalities and image, where being a real leader was more than knowing what is the right sound bite for each situation. These days I find Trudeau comes closer to that standard than any other, and the fact that it comes from the youngest of the federal party leaders is an irony not lost on me.

    I would note this as well, the fact that those screaming so loudly about sexism yesterday suddenly stopped talking about it and instead moved onto this manufactured outrage shows just how serious they were about their concerns regarding sexism, not to mention how substantive the basis for that concern actually was, which is to say not at all. When people complain about how nasty, ugly, poisonous our politics has become, well no small part of it being this way is shown by this behaviour and those that partake in it and especially those that encourage it. For all the “mistakes” people are seeing from Trudeau that his critics keep loudly claiming proves his unfitness for his office let alone the PMO, the wider public has not agreed, which must drive those opponents to distraction. When they have to reach for things like the bogus sexist claim and now his sudden desire to remake Canada into China and throw out his Father’s Charter of Rights to do it (which is going to strike every non-partisan Canadian as so completely over the top insane it is hard to find an equivalence for it), it shows both a level of desperation AND that they have not been able to find anything of real consequence to hit him with, otherwise they would use it instead.

    This reliance they have on his relative youth, his physical appearance, and this “Dauphin” tag all come down to how little they really have as ammo to destroy him with, as well as their desperate need to do so. Unlike prior new leaders they can’t define him first, because he was already well defined for Canadians thanks to who his father was as well as how he spoke at his fathers funeral. Clearly that is driving those opponents to the old throw everything little thing they find or can manufacture and hope it sticks approach, because if they had better it would have been used already. A lot of swing Canadian voters appear to find Trudeau a refreshing change and older ones seem to find the way he practices poltiics more like the way we used to in this nation. The sense of comfort that is bringing after the past decade of Harper style anger and scorched earth politics I suspect is having a powerful resonance in the electorate too.

    Trudeau is far more than the empty vessel being portrayed I believe, and for those that say where’s the beef then I would suggest you re-watch the Brazeau-Trudeau boxing match, I think the way he fought that match is instructive to how he fights in the political ring as well. He let his opponent punch himself out, encouraged wilder and wilder attacks, and then coolly, calmly, took his opponent apart with sharp precise punches. The only reason there was not a knockout was because the ref stopped it because of how clearly Brazeau had been beaten down already, as has become the practice in boxing. He is saving his heavy punches for when they will be the most effective and not allowing his opponent(s) to set the pace for him, exactly as he did in that match. I strongly suspect that the way he fights in the boxing ring matches the way he fights in the political ring, and if so then it is clear he is being massively underestimated by his critics. What we have in this latest “scandal” isn’t even much of a jab in that context, and hardly anything remotely resembling a solid punch attempt let alone hit.


    • So you think a good sign that Trudeau is not an empty vessel was how he performed in the boxing ring. OK, that tells me a lot about your thinking process.

      Personally I could care less that Trudeau worships China.
      But I simply can`t believe that members of the Liberal Party are so anxious for a return to power that they are willing to allow this fluffer to make a fool of himself.

      • Nice twist there spinning what I said into something quite different than what I actually said. The point of the boxing match was to show how Trudeau showed tight discipline in how he fought, that he let his opponent punch himself out before he took the offensive, and that once he did he took apart his opponent in a very precise, calm, and overwhelming manner. That the mindset which allows hm to fight in the boxing ring in such a manner is likely indicative of how he approaches fights in different arenas, including the political ring. Which shows why he is not going heavy on the policy releasing yet, despite the claims for him to do so or else be proven without substance by his political rivals and detractors. There is something called logic and reason to such a view, that was what it showed about my thinking process (btw, nice ignoring all the rest of what I said just so you could use that one small part to try and claim you and by insinuation your contention for others to know all you need to know about my thinking process), perhaps that is what you found so hard to understand about it?

        Seriously, the way in which you tried to dismiss all I had to say in such a manner only illustrated my point about the style of politics being embraced by those who clearly have such a problem with Trudeau. So I thank you for providing yet another example of the way people allow their “issues” with Trudeau to blind themselves to reality. Case in point being you claim to “care less that Trudeau worships China”, despite this having nothing to do with what Trudeau actually said. If you truly could care less then you wouldn’t have commented on it at all, let alone created such a distortion of what he had said as you did, which shows that you do care quite a bit about what he says and does, likely because you recognize that he actually is a serious political threat to you and yours.

        Worse, then to dismiss and further denigrate him you used a term to describe him that traces back to the porn industry “fluffer”, and I have to presume you, who claims to care about thinking processes and their seriousness, use words knowing what they mean. So you deliberately closed with equating a federal party leader to someone whose job it is to maintain a male video porn star in his erection by providing fellatio while he is off-screen, and yet you act like you have the high ground in your argument and thinking process? Really? By dismissing/equating him as a gay/bi male who is so submissive he can only find work as a fellatio provider to the real porn star to keep them ready? Some seriously insightful stuff going on there, but not about Trudeau or myself.

        Wow Cawm, that is oh so much more illustrative of a persons thinking process than my observation that the way Trudeau fought in one forum is potentially illustrative of how he fights in another, and the fact that he held back in the boxing match until the timing was right shows why he is not releasing much substance this far in advance of an election campaign. I mean really, if you are going to dismiss someone as being beyond consideration by insinuating their comment has no merit and indeed shows no substance to it it helps to not demonstrate the very behaviour you are claiming to be so appalled by. Thank you for demonstrating what people mean by projection, which we tend to see particularly from the right in NA these days when it comes to those they see as enemies. Do everyone, especially yourself, a favour…when you try to act so supercilious and the winner of a battle of wits, please don’t completely disarm yourself and then fall on your sword first, it just looks sad.

        I think Trudeau has the potential to be a good leader for our context because in the Parliamentary system of government it is how good a team the leader creates that provides good government, and on that front I think Trudeau not only has the right stuff I also think he has a good pool to draw from in terms of people with experience with government. I think that because he grew up in a political fishbowl he learned a lot at an early age about what works and what doesn’t, I think he also learned a lot about how important timing is, and I think he learned a lot about letting your political enemies destroy themselves trying to take you out watching how they went after his father. I think those are invaluable experiences afforded to very few, and I think he has shown in his life that he actually believes in civic virtue, duty, and honour. I happen to think those are very important qualities for a party leader looking to be PM, and while yes his experience base is not as developed as one might have liked to see, it isn’t the case that there is none at all.

        His style of approaching politics is in many ways more old fashioned at a time when people are clearly tiring of the new way with its gotcha approach, the anger, and the scorched earth approach, and Trudeau comes off feeling like a soothing cream after getting badly burned in that respect, and I think many at their peril are underestimating just how powerful an appeal that can and will have on the current electorate. I also think people are underestimating the way in which he clearly is going throughout the nation listening to people and their concerns is helping to create the perception that unlike the other leaders he really does care about what the citizens think and want, which after the autocratic government of Harper is also going to sell rather well I suspect. So through his actions it is clear that Trudeau is more than an empty vessel, and I strongly believe that by the time of the 2015 election he will be surprising many who currently contemptuously dismiss him as you did.

        When you combine these factors with how good of a political fundraiser he is for his party then it seems to me the Libs made a fairly smart choice is overwhelmingly choosing him. Just because someone was an astronaught does not mean they are the best choice for leader of a poltiical party, and while I have nothing but respect for Garneau in what he accomplished in his life both in space and politics I don’t think he would have been able to catch the same degree of interest and support as we have already seen happen with Trudeau. So far from lookng desperate to those not blinded by their partisanship about Trudeau the Libs finally look like they are making smart choices again, something we had not seen form them in many years.


        • Scotian, I appreciate the time and reflection you take to compose your comments; they are a pleasure to read. As I read your account of the Trudeau/Brazeau charity fight, I also thought about how Trudeau treated Brazeau AFTER the fight, at the victory “cutting of the hair” — and while he took his laurel, he didn’t humiliate Brazeau and snipped just a few ends from the ponytail. A class act who, as you say, has the potential to be a great leader; I am optimistic he will have the opportunity to prove us right or wrong.

          • Yes, that was very interesting and illuminating about his actual character, especially given all Brazeau and his side had said about what was going to happen to him in the ring and afterwards when Brazeau broke the shiny pony and rode him into the dirt. I have been very impressed with young Mr Trudeau in general, and I am sensing the possibility of a return to statesmanship politics from him that we have been so sorely lacking over the past decade from all sides should he become the PM. It seems that we may finally have someone with genuine character as a party leader (I’ll give Layton this much that he had character too, but he subsumed it in his hatred for the Libs as his political foes and most dangerous electoral opponents, not to mention the selling out of democratic values he claimed to believe in by trying to not merely defeat and replace the Libs but aid Harper in destroying the Party completely so as to replace, the former is consistent with espoused NDP principles, the latter was clearly not), and after the past decade or so now I suspect that has more appeal than those that have favoured the Harper retail with anger approach that worked for him, and that alas the NDP have been buying into as well.

            I really don’t think Trudeau was all that interested in becoming Pm, or at least not this soon in his political career, I could see him wanting some more time as an MP and working up to it over time, but that he felt his party truly needed what he could bring to the table after the Ignatief fiasco (and it certainly was, the only thing I could say in the last election about why to vote Lib was that he would be far better than Harper, aside from that I had nothing positive to say about someone who was to me a clear opportunist and carpetbagger who thought he was entitled by virtue of his great intellect to just casually walk in with only doing a fraction of the work to demonstrate he really understood his party and his nation in terms of the political realities involved and interests to be balanced…no I really didn’t care for him and his arrogance). I really do think he was talked into it and that he really was hesitant and reluctant but convinced in the end that it really was his duty to run and become the leader now, but now that he has taken the task on that he will do it to the best of his ability because he sees it as his duty to do so.

            When my father the traditional conservative of my family who generally stays tuned out of politics and doesn’t want to talk them (unlike my mother who talks non-stop about them, I get to take that burden off Dad much to his relief) not only starts being interested by someone but is even following closely enough to tell things like the speaking fees issue was a manufactured scandal , that he likes the way he thinks on his feet and is willing to risk looking a bit foolish but give real answers instead of the scripted vapidity that has become the norm for politicians and leaders, that is something I haven’t ever seen before. Especially since he is a retired engineer, he is truly the conservative in most respects not just political, and the fact that Harper has created such fury/disgust within him and that Trudeau has created so much interest in him and belief from him in terms of how genuine Trudeau is (which coming from my cynical father is really remarkable), well then I really think we have something very different going on from the usual where Trudeau is concerned.

            My fathers politics are as blue as they come, just as my mothers are as red as they came, so for Trudeau to be so appealing to him, for Trudeau to have gained the credibility and respect of him, my father who is a true centrist is right of centrist swing voter is so attracted then the Harper CPC is in real trouble,. Btw, my father had thought I was being way over the top about how bad Harp[er would be as PM, especially process issues if he ever got a majority government, well recently he formally apologized to me and said I was right, that if anything I had understated it to him, which from this man is something I am not sure he had ever said/done for me. My father is not the best at admitting when he is wrong about something let alone apologizing for it, especially to me his son. While I don’t use this data as a major part of my basis for my opinions about Trudeau, I do find the data hard to ignore completely because of how atypical it is from the man, and I have to wonder how many others out there are the same, as my father is almost the quintessential middle class swing voter with conservative leanings out there. My father is very old school Canadian in nature, principles, and values, and if Trudeau is impacting him to this degree, well it really makes me wonder just how representative he is in this regard. I tend to be very way of anecdotal evidence so I am not trying to convince people with this, but I thought I’d share it with as further evidence of how Trudeau and his demonstrated manners and decency appears to be impacting beyond those of us who are either partisans or follow politics closely for our own reasons.


        • My apologies, I thought a fluffer was someone who had no substance, you know, someone who has depended on his name and good looks to advance in life, one who can only respond in a fluffy way, because he has little knowledge, experience, or natural intelligence.
          I had no intention of making the porn connection. Many thanks for sharing your knowledge of the porn industry.

          • May explain why people find your political water cooler talk kind of awkward.

          • People backing away slowly:-)

          • I always find it fascinating that the only ones fixated on Trudeau’s looks are Con men. Somebody needs to psychoanalyze this.

          • This is why one needs to make sure you understand the history of a word especially an insult BEFORE you start using it. The meaning of the word fluffer was easily out there, it is not exactly a hard to discover technical term one must be seriously into porn to be aware of you know. You could have Googled it, you could have used wikipedia, there was even a mainstream movie called The Fluffer from back in 2001 when I might add was where I was made aware of the term’s meaning. Words have meanings, and it is important to be sure you understand those meanings when you use them, otherwise you end up leaving yourself in the position you found yourself in this time. Btw, I am going to hope you didn’t mean your last sentence as a sarcastic swipe barring evidence to the contrary, and if I am wrong, again you do not do yourself any favours. It is especially important to make sure your own intellectual coherency and credibility is on a sound footing before you go and attack someone elses as you did, you let yourself wide open for what came next, so please, do us all a favour and retire from the field before it gets even bloodier. If you really didn’t mean it as a swipe then I will leave it at that then.


      • Now he worships China? Next he’ll be a plant programmed to take over our government. SCARY!!!

    • Hi Scotian

      I totally agree with you, as always. Unfortunately you are trying to reason with people who are unreasonable. It just won’t work.

      • Perhaps not, but it is still worth the effort to try at least for a time, if not always with that person but others who are reading along, especially in places with a larger media presence than some backwater blog site. I may have needed to take some time away from the fight after the last election, but that was after all the result of about a decade of consistent warning of the dangers of Harper, and I was really finding the Cassandra legacy I had ended up with giving me a real bitter streak, so I knew it was time to step back for a bit. While I am passionate and convicted in my views and beliefs I refuse to allow myself to become poisonous and bitter, when that happens the forces I oppose will have won by making me their mirror image, and I refuse to give that victory, or at the very least I refuse to give it cheaply or easily. So now that I am slowly returning to the online political commentary world I am resuming my old practices as I am able to manage it. Thank you though for your kind words and your warning, I did suspect as much but each person has to establish their credibility or lack thereof on their own with me, it is how I do things after all, as I am sure you recall about me.


        • Oh, lighten up old boy.

          • Ah, one of the refuges of the loser in a serious disagreement, the old lighten up bit. Nope, not going to happen. You started it after all, and given how you tried to sleaze some rather nasty insinuations in from the outset it is hardly unreasonable of me to think your “apology” deferring to my “knowledge of the porn industry” may have been another such, so I dealt with it preemptively as if it was. While I have a rich sense of humour I take my politics rather seriously and I take public discussion of such also seriously, and I take criticism that pretends to be serious but is not seriously when I chose to dignify it with a response. Deal.


        • I do recall that about you, and your comments are always well thought out and written.

    • it isn’t by most reasonable reading comprehension standards even saying a lot of admiration


      Oh, please. The question posed to him was “What administration do you admire most?”, and his answer was China. Why is it that everything Trudeau says needs to be taken out of context for him to not appear to be dangerously stupid? Why is he unable to answer the most basic questions without putting his foot in his mouth?

      • “What administration do you admire most?”, and his answer was China.

        “You know, there’s a level of of admiration I actually have for China…”

        “But if I were to reach out and say which…which kind of administration I
        most admire
        , I think there’s something to be said right here in Canada
        for the way our territories are run.”

        Please NotRick, get help for your reading. The world will start making a lot more sense when you do.

  13. Maybe it’s just me, but it looks like Justin tried to make a funny and it flopped. I think he was trying to paint a picture of Harper wanting to have the kind of control over Canadians and the economy that China has (i.e. implying Harper would love to be a dictator).

    I mean there is a flexibility that I know Stephen Harper must dream about of having a dictatorship that he can do everything he wanted that I find quite interesting.
    The meat in what he wanted to say followed afterwards in his referencing the territories’ means of governing.
    Trudeau likes speaking off the cuff; he’s just not (yet) that good at it… as evidenced by the way so many here are responding to his comments.

    • It is just you !

      Have you been drinking ?

      • Play along with me… we drink every time FV repeats the same comment. She’s up to five so far…

        • OK, But I can only drink at home in the basement. Not going down to the Danforth.

          • LOL!

        • Are you in a drunken stupor yet?

      • Harper just gave a speech in which he complained that his governing was being thwarted by the opposition, the courts, the dread elite expert class etc. .So it’s not a stretch to think he would love to have the power the Chinese government has.

        • Um, yes it is a stretch to suggest that. Trudeau didn’t say he was jealous of the power the Chinese government has, he said he admired their form of government. ie. a dictatorship that systematically abuses human rights.

    • It’s just you.

    • So these ladies show up and pay $250 to ask him questions, and you think he’s responding with jokes? Do you really think he has that little respect for voters?

      More likely he realized he answered the question in the worst possible way, and then tried (lamely) to save himself by making a quip about Harper and Sun News.

  14. Ah the lad runs on his father’s name and little else.
    The trauma to the nation will come if he ever becomes Prime Minister.

    • We’ve weathered Harper we can get by with JT’s shortcomings.

  15. Here’s the problem no one in Canada’s major media want to tackle, regarding Trudeau: In his upbringing, he was steeped in the mythos of the heroic leftist revolutionary. Trudeau genuinely believes in the ideal of the all-powerful socialist state, albeit one not run by thugs such as Stalin or even Castro, but by more benign visionaries such as himself and others like him. He’s been fed this stuff his whole life, so of course he believes it! Meanwhile, he’s willing to peddle the socialist lie that small-c conservatives, who actually believe in small and limited government, are somehow envious of leftist states, and harbor ambitions to create such states ourselves.
    The worst of it? That so many Canadian journalists fail to see the connections with Trudeau’s deeply Marxist upbringing- which he has never repudiated- and his admiration for other high-profile Marxists (Suzuki, Castro, etc) and Marxist regimes.

    • “…steeped in the mythos….”

      Oh Gawd, your wife must either be a saint or a master of the tune-out.

      • So, by coffee break on any given Tesday, the anointed Saint Justin is pretty much guaranteed to say something that would get a blond, Christian, Miss America contestant ridiculed from one end of the internet to another, and the Canadian media will try and twist that very utterance into something profound. Meanwhile, in Toronto the Rob Ford controversy grows by the minute with ever more outlandish claims and accusations. My guess is that by Nov. 22, there will be at least one person come forward claiming they saw him on the grassy knoll…

        • I have no quarrel with your issues regarding Pierre Jr. He’s a goober, and the desperate Liberal Party’s only hope. However, when you go to bat for T.O.’s own real-life version of Tommy Boy (on crack), any smattering of credibility that you may have incidentally garnered goes straight down the loo. Ford’s a sweatier, more juvenile version of George Bush, and we all know where your sympathies lie so I’m not surprised that someone like Ford is your idea of “exactly what this country needs”.

          • Actually, you’re a bit off. Rob Ford is exactly what TORONTO needs, not the country. I do admit, however, to often praying for an asteroid, just a small one (about the size of a Civic) to come hurtling in from the void in the general direction of Nathan Philips Square…

          • Lol.

            Ironically this celestial event already occurred, but instead of hurtling in from the void it was elected.

  16. The commie sympathizing apple doesn’t fall far from the commie sympathizing tree…..

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