‘These incidents appear to be homicides’

Conservative MPs Maurice Vellacott, Leon Benoit and Wladyslaw Lizon have written to the RCMP to request that some abortions be investigated as homicides.

In their letter, the MPs wrote that between 2000 and 2009 there were 491 abortions performed on Canadian women who were pregnant for longer than 19 weeks. They contend that at this stage of gestation, the abortions involved live babies. “These are vulnerable, innocent children that homicide has been perpetrated on,” Vellacott said Thursday from Ottawa. “The individuals who have perpetrated the breach of the Criminal Code should be charged and brought to justice.”

The NDP’s Megan Leslie led Question Period this afternoon and challenged the Prime Minister on this.

Megan Leslie. Mr. Speaker, just days after the 25th anniversary of the Morgentaler decision and just days after we heard the Minister for Status of Women acknowledge that Canadians do not want the abortion debate reopened, we see another attempt by the Conservative backbench to do just that. These Conservatives are trying to get the RCMP to investigate abortions as murders. Will the government make it clear that this question was settled 25 years ago? Will the Prime Minister make it clear that he and his government understand that abortion is not murder?

Stephen Harper. Mr. Speaker, I think all members of the House, whether they agree with it or not, understand that abortion is legal in Canada. This government, myself included, have made it very clear that the government does not intend to change the law in this regard.

After QP, Bob Rae offered his particular concern.

Well, I believe the Prime Minister when he says he does not intend to do that. But it’s obvious that there are a lot of members of his caucus who want to do that. I think there’s also a question about—there’s a difference between Joe Public writing a letter to the Commissioner of the RCMP and the Commissioner of the RCMP receiving such a letter. I don’t think the application of the criminal law in Canada should be subject to political pressure of any kind whatsoever from any source whatsoever and I regret the fact that members are doing this because I think it creates a sense that somehow this determination is a political determination. It’s been a common understanding of the law in Canada that the decision to terminate a pregnancy is not a criminal act and that is the law of Canada so I think it’s important that we all start from that premise.




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‘These incidents appear to be homicides’

  1. I hate the way the Conservative Party of Canada has the same social vision that the US Republicans show…time for their own big slapdown.

  2. Harper needs to grab a paddle, and take a few MPs out behind the woodshed.

    • You’re saying this like they didn’t get the go ahead from him to begin with.

      Reality is, Mr. Harper was elected, in no small portion, because of the support of various evangelical groups. Evangelical groups who were putting their hopes in him enacting some of their social agenda. It’s been 7 years.. including 2 as a majority, and they’ve seen bupkiss for their efforts. And if we’re being honest, will likely continue to see that, as, for all his faults, Harper is not completely blind to the general will of the Canadian people. Certainly aware enough to see that any real moves done on this issue would be a kind of “last straw” to a large number of the voters he’s depending on right now.

      So instead, he lets these guys out as kind of a reminder to the Evangelicals.. “See guys? We really are the party of anti-abortion. We haven’t forgotten.. honest!”

      And, partially because they’re gullible people, and partially because nobody else will even give them a nudge and a wink on this issue, that’s enough to keep them from turning on him.

      Nothing real will happen. But a bunch of things which have no chance of doing anything real will continue to happen and be quietly encouraged.

      • Oh yeah….SoCons got him elected, and I can understand them wanting a payoff.

        In fact they complain about him….as a Lib no less!….on Free Dominion all the time.

        But if he goes for such a thing, all hell will break loose and that will be the end of both Harper and his merry band of Cons. And Harp knows that even if they don’t.

        But by pushing him all the time….publically, like this…they make him look bad, as being very anti-anti, hidden agenda and all that….. and that harms his re-election chances. It also makes him look weak by not keeping them in line if he means what he says..

        So they are putting him in a bad position….and he needs to take steps and end this.

  3. Vellacot’s riding will be one of the new all-urban (urban for sk, anyway) ones in 2015, right?

  4. I take this as further proof that we need an abortion law, so we don’t have to put up with this kind of nonsense.

    The scary thing is that on a strict interpretation of the law as it stands, they may have a case. Enough of one to make it before a judge before getting thrown out, anyway.

    • No, we don’t.

      No, they don’t.

    • YOur “interpretation” is beyond stupid on this matter.

      • What is stupid about this interpretation. By today’s law, a baby ‘becomes’ human only after it has passed alive through the birth canal. These 491 did, ergo they are human. Hence the call for an investigation into the killing of 491 live human beings!

        • They were NEVER at a developmental point where they could survive. Do some research on the youngest age that premature babies survive. Further many were aborted due to severe anomalies….they were missing vital organs. Have you ever heard of a baby living without a brain?

          • The thing is though, HI, that the possibility exists – though I would agree that it is unlikely – that the law as written could potentially be interpreted to read the way Vellacott et al says it does. It is clearly an attempt at an end run around our lack of a law on abortions; they are trying to punish – or at least frighten – the doctors performing the procedures.

      • Did you actually read the law? It is a potentially valid interpretation of the Criminal Code. I didn’t say I agreed with it. But it wouldn’t be the first time a strict interpretation of the law has led to unintended – or undesirable – consequences.

  5. Funny how Big city Liberal bleeding heart types right away blame the religious people, if you look at a map of Conservative wins Almost the entire western part of Canada voted Conservative except in a few ridings in granola munching Vancouver and Vancouver Island who believe in letting criminals run the courts and giving hundreds of chances to little murderers. We voted for Harper because he has common sense for the average Joe! I know the lefties think that the poor can afford Kyoto and that the “justice” system is just fine and the Armed forces don’t deserve our support.Well I along with hard working blue collar types who like Timmies over Non-fat non dairy decaf lattes think with a lot more common sense. The Liberals in Vancouver want to help the poor just as long as they stay out of their neighborhood. Feed the hungry just as long as the soup kitchens(run b y churches by the way) don’t set up shop near their houses.

    • Yeah, yeah….Tree Monkeys love Harper….

    • Geezus – these talking points must have come out of the Cons time capsule.

  6. People seem to have missed the point here. It’s not that these MPs are saying that babies aborted after 18 weeks should be treated as “live.” Statistics Canada and Canadian Institute for Health Information actually reported that of the over 4,000 post-18 week abortions performed between 2000 and 2009, 491 of the babies survived the abortion, were born alive and then died. Were they left to die or did they receive the same care that any premature baby would have received? That’s what the MPs are asking the RCMP to investigate.

    • The real point people seem to be missing is why would a woman wait until she was 18 plus weeks for an abortion that she could have had at 10 weeks. Surely, we aren’t led to believe that ALL of these women didn’t know they were pregnant. I’ll give you an answer of a case I am familiar with. The woman had an irregular cervix and at 19 weeks and her “waters” ruptured in a slow leak. She was in the hospital on bed rest but the leak didn’t stop and she got severe infection. Due to no fluid for the baby to live in and the severity of the infection, they had to induce labor (a therapeutic abortion). Because they waited so long it was questionable whether she would ever have been able to have another child and this baby at 20 weeks was not mature enough to live outside the uterus.
      To my knowledge NO baby is viable under 23 weeks gestation…that is with all of the interventions. So while it is possible that a babe might take a breath upon birth at 19 weeks (and thus be born alive), the babe cannot survive no matter what medical inventions are done. As for the babies born at 23 weeks, there is nothing saying they will survive because they are VERY premature. We might have fantastic interventions but we aren’t God.

  7. Too bad people can’t keep their abortion politics out of a story that has nothing to do with abortion. Statistics Canada documented hundreds of babies being born — live. Presumably cords were cut, lungs inhaled, babies wailed, and then they stopped. Is no one interested in knowing whether they received the necessities of life? Were their deaths hastened in any way? Pretend they were sled dogs or whales and see if you can muster some outrage.

    • Now we are focussed on the real subject here. 491 living breathing humans, left to die or “killed” after being born and everyone starts yelling hidden agenda. Hidden is the right word here. No one would have known about this atrocity had these three courageous MPs not raised their voices. The NDP used to claim they were for the Little guy. I guess these newborns are just “too” little for them to care. 491 children is the same as almost 25 Newtown Conneticuts. An entire elementary school wiped out and no one wants to help them.

      • I thought Lifesite/McVety would able to muster more bots than this.

    • Exactly! So many are all up in arms about the killing of sled dogs…but they want to turn a blind eye to the killing of human beings! It’s … I can’t think of a descriptor strong enough to say what it is … it’s just wrong.

  8. Ximena Renaerts. One of those babies left to die at a British Columbia hospital…a “complication” of a failed abortion. No wonder the Megan Leslie’s of the world don’t want to talk about this. I believe the out of court settlement was almost 9 million dollars. Hospital staff left the baby to die…hmm…do you still think these 491 babies were just blobs of tissue that no one has a right to talk about? Think again. This is what 25 years of “settled” abortion gets you.

    • Thanks for the reminder. Ximena Renaerts accidentally sneaked into public awareness. They’ve been more effective in covering up the others.

  9. ladymanby, thank you for clarifying what the MPs actually said. People missed the point because the press, TV/radio news etc and NDP members during question period in the House of Commons have all intentionally mislead the public on the facts of the letter. The letter to the RCMP is not about abortion! The letter is only about living human beings as defined by Canadian law who were left to die in Canadian hospitals.

    • But the MP’s who wrote this letter believe all abortion is murder, right?

      • Who cares? Different issue. Stop trying to cloud one with the other.

  10. Vellacott et al are NOT TALKING ABOUT ABORTION. These are Murdered Babies. Born live. Then killed. It’s against the law. What’s so difficult to understand? Read Canadian Criminal Codes 223, 224, and 226.

    • Read the article in the National Post. These were “babies” with developmental anomalies….many failed to develop vital organs such as a brain and therefore could not survive outside the womb. They weren’t “killed”. They never had a hope for survival. In other cases, the mother would have died had the fetus went to term. Why is it such a difficult concept for YOU to understand that these were never healthy pregnancies? There was never going to be a happy ending with a healthy baby and mother. If the mother had simply wanted an abortion, she could have done that early on.

      • 1) So you’re saying that these 491 (plus 119 more in 2010/2011) deaths have already been investigated and officially cleared as not being homicides? Why hasn’t the press reported this? Or Statistics Canada or Health Canada? Because they HAVE NOT been investigated. Since you have so much insider knowledge, perhaps you should come forward to the police with the evidence you suggest you have about these 610 deaths. 2) Just to clarify, you’re saying it’s okay for a doctor and/or hospital to kill a live baby rather than try to help it overcome a birth defect? So much for the Hippocratic Oath!

      • All 491 of them were not viable? You know this?

  11. We have TWO issues here: Abortion and MURDER. Abortion is legal, yes. Murder is NOT! If a baby makes it out of the womb and is left to die after that, it is not abortion, it is murder.

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