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British imam threatened with death for saying Islam is compatible with theory of evolution


 

Usama Hasan is an exceptionally brave and good man. That he has been subjected to this kind of bullying is upsetting. I’ve written about Hasan several times, in the most detail here.


 

British imam threatened with death for saying Islam is compatible with theory of evolution

  1. Comments on here are being eaten.

    Aha…now that it's fixed I'll repeat 'Religion poisons everything'.

    • It's obvious you've let it poison you, dearie.

      • I'm an atheist….for that very reason.

    • We know of your hatred of religion and people of religion. Indeed, you help out the causes you so much despise by being as resentful and intolerant as you are. Thank you.

      • Gonna try your luck with the attacks again eh?

        Funny…I'm not denouncing christianity, I'm denouncing fundie muslims….one of your previous complaints. LOL

        • You said: "religion poisons everything."

          Have you now changed your mind? Are you now saying that only "fundie muslims" poison everything?

          Mind you, I know what you have said about religion, and what your views are about religion, including regular Christians. But if you've engaged in a remarkable change, I'd love to learn about it. I supposed we all would.

          • 'Religion poisons everything' is a quote….from Chistopher Hitchens. One I happen to agree with.

            All religions have fundies….they are all dangerous ignoramuses.

            And since I've just posted that I'm an atheist, only you would claim to see some change in that. LOL

          • I think it's a hateful and intolerant quote. A little lady preaching at church is "poisonous" to you, is she? She would have to be, according to your quote.

            I also find it amusing how someone like you can call anyone else a "dangerous ignoramus."

            Again, the shamelessness of some people on here has no bounds.

          • Here's a flash….I don't care what you think.

            You believe in sky fairies after all. LOL

          • I believe in God, as do countless people worldwide. You mock us. That's your agenda. Thank you.

          • 'If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.' Anatole France

            You're welcome.

          • Yes, you think people who dare disagree with you are "foolish", then you have the gall to call for "civility" in politics. You just want everyone who disagrees with you to go away. I guess this is the new liberal agenda.

          • Again….3 strikes and you're out. Not even the kitchen sink helped. Sorry kid. LOL

          • Your skin is so thin I wonder how you manage to keep your insides in.

            "Foolish" is so mild an insult that it's practically a compliment. We are all fools, Dennis, every last one of us.

          • Are you an idiot, too?

          • In some ways, yes. :-)

          • Well, I dismiss the wisdom of idiots, Larry, so thanks for allowing me to dismiss yours.

          • I'm sorry. I didn't realize you were waiting for my expressed consent.

            You've had it all along :-)

          • Larry on the record saying I can dismiss his idiocy at any time. Actually, I wasn't asking for it, but thanks for providing!

          • Actually, Larry, if someone were to say that "all black people are fools" or "all gay people are fools" would you still say that it's OK, because we're all fools? And, if you would, I know a bunch of types, including the "Emilies" of the world, who wouldn't, and they wouldn't wait a second to voice their outrage either. But I guess I'm the one with the thin skin. I'm the one who unreasonably gets offended at blanket generalizations of an entire group or category of people.

            For the record, I would not accept "all black people are fools" or the same about gays. I think some comments are offensive. But, again, maybe that's just me.

  2. Those threatening to kill Usama Hasan should be arrested and, if not UK citizens,…deported asap. Truly demoralizing that a small vocal group can intimidate an entire board of trustees…shame on them for caving.

    • Sad part is that the Golden Age of Islam produced many ideas, discoveries, sciences etc. Then they were attacked from both the west and the east….and now they've come down to this disgraceful nonsense. And in the UK of all places.

      I agree…toss them out.

      • Sad part is that the Golden Age of Islam produced many ideas, discoveries, sciences etc. Then they were attacked from both the west and the east….

        what kind of revisionist BS is that? Islam did have a golden age, but they were not attacked. they were doing the attacking. how do you think islam spread so rapidly from poitiers in France to Indonesia (hint, it wasnt because people were all gun ho about a religion with a bunch of ridiculous restrictions), its because the armies of muhammed went on a murderous rampage.

        • Go back to school….you missed a bunch.

          "The ink of the scholar is more sacred than the blood of the martyr" Muhammed

          • wow, first you quote Osama bin Laden, now you quote Muhammed. Interesting.

            anyhow, I dont give a cr@p if Mohammed said this, the fact is Muhammed spread his violent religion violently.

          • im well aware of the islamic golden age. that's not what Im objecting to.

          • You're not 'objecting' to anything….Muslims are no better and no worse than christians….plain ol human beings same as you are.

        • Actually, OriginalEmily1 is perfectly right….Islam did enjoy a 'Golden Age'….when European civilization was crumbling after the fall of Rome..i.e. 'dark ages'…Muslim scholars preserved many of the ideas and concepts that our current 'western civilization' are founded upon…and improved on many of them…from maths, sciences, architecture, greek and roman ideas, etc…the Renaissance was a product of christian monks re-introducing the ideas that they in turn had learnt while in lands ruled by Muslims…

          Furthermore…I won't quibble with your glib assessment of the spread of Islam but it's not that different from the spread of Christianity….the Crusades were pretty bad in the sense that holy men had no problem killing jews and orthodox christians…ie. Sack of Constantinople.

          • yes i know that islam enjoyed a golden age. i never disagreed with that. Algebra, Alchemy, … mostly all words that start in Al (except alphabet) has roots in arabic. Our numbers are arabic… i know.

            and, sorry to burst your bubble but there is a world of difference between how christianity was spread and how islam was spread. your pathetic cliche reference to the crusades is particularly telling. why were the crusades started in the first place? to re-take land that was pillaged and conquered by muslim armies that's why. also, the crusades did not spread Christianity. the mid-east was christian before europe was – until that is, it was conquered and pillaged by muslim armies.

          • So what's your point? Spread of Christianity good, peaceful, pure…spread of Islam bad, violent, evil…is that it?

            As for the crusades, it had less to do with 're-taking land' and more to do with Papal greed and distraction…plus I stand by my point…Muslim armies – Christian armies…why make a distinction?

            Sounds like you are just perpetuated the same old stereotype that somehow implies all Muslims as violent warmongers…

          • So what's your point? Spread of Christianity good, peaceful, pure…spread of Islam bad, violent, evil…is that it?

            eh…. no. but it's equally untrue that the two are equivalent in terms of how they were originally spread. there is actually a middle position between the words you tried to put in my mouth and the false equivalence which you peddle. islam was spread exclusively by the sword, and by political intimidation, like imposing a tax on non-muslims and general persecution of non-muslims.

            Christianity in contrast was an obscure sect until Constantine converted, and later Charlemagne. Im curious to know more about the transition from pagan cults in Europe to widespread christianity, but there was no equivalent to the conquest of the islamic armies of the 7th century.


          • Sounds like you are just perpetuated the same old stereotype that somehow implies all Muslims as violent warmongers…

            whatever buddy, are you one of those who bravely slays non-racism everywhere you go?

            i never even mentioned muslims of today. we're talking about 1400 years ago here.

            If you want to confront racists, why dont you go to a campus near you, I hear its Israel Apartheid Week right now. Be careful, unlike me, they might not respond politely.

    • Apparently they even intimidated the police as well!

  3. "Like Christianity, Islamic opinion is divided over evolution." The two religions may share some common beliefs but I have not heard of a Christian group issuing death threats.

    "The campaign is part of a growing movement by a small but vocal group of largely Saudi-influenced orthodox Muslims who use evolution as a way of discrediting imams whom they deem to be overly progressive or "western orientated".

    January 29, 2011, in Toronto, Tarek Fatah of the Muslim Canadian Congress, was to have debated with Imam Sheharyar Shaikh of the North American Muslim Foundation at their mosque. Instead, he received threats of violence and had to cancel. The moderate muslim community needs to be wary of importing imams from countries where more radical forms of Islam is practised.
    http://www.muslimcanadiancongress.org/

    • Giulio Cesare Vanini (c.1585-1619) – “For Vanini, natural law was the divine. He rejected the idea of an immortal soul and was one of the first thinkers to view nature as (an entity) governed by natural laws. He also suggested that humans evolved from apes.” Vanini spurned Christianity as a fiction invented by rulers and priests to secure their power, a stance that forced him to flee from place to place to avoid Catholic authorities.

      They removed his tongue before they strangled and burned him to death at the stake

      • you see, islam can kill and terrorize all they want today, because 400 years ago, some christian authorities behaved badly.

        • Christians today kill as well….doctors, gays….

          • Of course, i cant think of gays killed by christians in recent memory, but I suppose Dr. Tiller was killed by a christian lunatic.

            So since 2001, muslim terrorists have killed more than 10,000 people around the world, and christian terrorists killed one.

          • Well ….you can't think…pretty much sums it up.

  4. Hopefully this underscores for Hasan just how wrong he was about the compatibility of evolution with religion.

    Is it really worth trying to reconcile what you know to be true with what you want to believe just to be part of a community that will threaten to kill you for holding a rational belief?

    • So people of religion can't be rational? Is that what you're trying to say?

      By the way, we don't "know" evolution to be true. It's just our best guess at the moment, right? Isaac Newton's theories were thought to be "true" until Albert Einstein came along.

      • Religious people can be rational. The problem is that they choose not to be.

        As for Isaac Newton – his theories weren't even incorrect, just limited. Einstein's math takes more possibilities into account, and explains more than Newton's did. It works better because it's better science and it's more accepted because there's better evidence.

        It's hardly comparable to suggest that because evolution continues to have the word 'theory' attached to it, or because I can't sit here and prove it to a mathmatical certainty, I have to accept 'Allah did it' as an equally plausible explaination.

        • In other words, people of religion are not rational. That is what you're saying. Interesting. Isn't that a bigoted sentiment? Sounds like it to me.

          And who is it that asked you to accept "Allah did it" as an alternative to evolutionary theory? For someone who likes to talk about reason, your use of it seems to be a bit off, if you ask me.

          • Do you have anything useful to say, or are you just here to put words in my mouth and make personal attacks?

          • This is what you wrote:

            Religious people can be rational. The problem is that they choose not to be.

            So people who choose religion are not rational? This is what you appear to be saying, isn't it? If not, please correct the record. Otherwise, seems pretty bigoted to me.

            This is also what you wrote:

            It's hardly comparable to suggest that because evolution continues to have the word 'theory' attached to it, or because I can't sit here and prove it to a mathmatical certainty, I have to accept 'Allah did it' as an equally plausible explaination.

            No one in fact made this comparison. You did. Again, for someone who says they value reason, you seem to be using it awfully selectively in this context.

            Again, you are more than welcome to clear the air on any of this. So far, all you've done is offer one knee-jerk sentence in reply. Again, not very promising for someone who is says they're a champion of reason.

            Thank you.

          • On the first point, I think Dr. Hasan is a pretty good example of someone who is reasonable but has chosen not to be. For attempting to rationalize evolution with religion he was threatened with death – he responded by recanting his remarks and seeking the forgiveness of the very people who had threatened him. This is an otherwise reasonable person making an irrational choice for the sake of religion. If you disagree, feel free to do so, but I don't think it's fair to accuse me of being a bigot.

            You implied that because Newton was 'wrong', Darwin might also be wrong. I inferred that you were suggesting I had to allow for the possibility that Darwin might be wrong and I therefore have to allow for the possibility that the fundamentalists were right. My point is that just because scientific theories may be improved or rendered obsolete by further scientific discovery, it doesn't follow that I have to accept the validity of supernatural explanations.

            You may believe god created everything. You may believe there is room in evolution to allow for god. I do not. The mere fact that I disagree with your worldview does not make me a bigot.

          • Well, then, why did you make a general statement about rationality and people of religion when it seems to be that you're making it about one person only. Is that right?

            And, again, you're the only one creating a choice between evolutionary theory and worshiping Allah. It seems kind of knee-jerk for someone who says they value reason, doesn't it?

            You may choose to believe that we're a random accident in an otherwise cold and uncaring universe, but this doesn' mean that you have a monopoly on reason. In fact, your efforts in this regard seem rather haphazard so far. In other words, for someone who claims to champion rationality, you're not much of a poster boy for it.

  5. When it comes to allowing religion to enter politics… or even allowing religious doctire to become threatening to our freedoms of speech and expression…

    It doesn't count unless a Conservative is doing it.

    Nothing to see here, move along. The left would prefer you ignore it. It's all a part of our wonderful, multicultural diversity. Stop your islamophobia.

    • Separation of church and state was a guiding principle in the western world long before most people were even aware of Islam.

      It always counts….no matter the religion, no matter the party.

      • Stop your Islamophobia. Somebody call a human rights commission right away to investigate this hateful comment from Emily.

  6. Religion probably works best when it surrenders the field to replicable evidence, saving "beliefs" for that which cannot be explained by rational hypothesis-driven investigation.

    So, in my mind, ANY religion should be smart enough to back off into the mythology of the unprovable. Here, sadly, is evidence that one of them is refusing to yield.

    And fine. No religion has to tear out 68% (or whatever) of its tenets because an anony-commenter says so. But to issue violent fatwas over this proves (with 99.999% confidence) the absolute evil of the issuer.

  7. I hope we'll have word soon that the fundies have been arrested for issuing death threats. This is beyond outrageous.

  8. I hope from all these troubling times, Progressive and peaceful Islam will be successful in wrenching their religion away from the control of Islamist Nutzies. Looking at Pakistan, is like having a little glimpse of what medieval times may have been (although with more capacity for mass murder with the use of bombs and IEDs). Is it a possibility that after imprisonment, radicals can be deported to countries like Pakistan, Iran, Somalia, Yemen, and Saudi Arabia as part of their sentence? They would have nothing to complain as these countries have Shariah law which they are clamoring for. Long term reality is a much better lesson, than any uttered words.

  9. The religion of death,…….. business as usual.

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