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Justin Trudeau can’t catch a bad break

The big news: Conservatives struggle with ethics as the Liberal leader beats a troll


 

Adrian Wyld/CP Images

“I’ve been listening to you. You need to listen to what I’m saying.”—Justin Trudeau
“I entirely reject these allegations.”—Dean Del Mastro

The last thing the prime minister needs is someone on his team arguing about ethics. Yesterday, Dean Del Mastro started arguing about ethics. The Conservative MP was, until a few weeks ago, Stephen Harper’s parliamentary secretary. That doesn’t suggest he was any kind of insider,  but Del Mastro’s name was attached to the prime minister. Surely, that demonstrated some level of trust between Harper and his man in Peterborough.

Now, Elections Canada is accusing Del Mastro of violating elections laws in 2008. He faces four charges, including exceeding spending limits and filing a false report. Nothing has been proven in court and Del Mastro denies any wrongdoing. Nevertheless, the NDP called for his removal from the Conservative caucus and, shortly after, that became so. For now, Del Mastro is an independent MP.

Whatever the outcome of this protracted squabble, which has seen Del Mastro lay low in the House of Commons as allegations have swirled for months, Harper’s team must be growing weary of playing defence on ethics. Whether or not anyone outside of the nation’s capital pays attention to these mini-scandals, the government can’t help but be distracted by them.

Justin Trudeau, on the other hand, couldn’t have asked for better press yesterday. The Liberal leader visited Steinbach, Man., earlier this week. The city of 13,000 lies in Provencher, the riding recently vacated by former public safety minister Vic Toews. At some point, Trudeau met Candice Cancade, the operations manager at a local food bank. She asked him what he thought about legalizing marijuana. He said the current approach to drug policy isn’t working. She disagreed. He rebutted. She pivoted. He retorted. The exchange was caught on video.

Steinbach Mayor Chris Goertzen, who was accompanying Trudeau through town, eventually shed some light on Cancade’s biography. As it turns out, she’s married to a man who used to be Toews’ executive assistant. Outed, she looked sheepish. Trudeau looked confident. He’d taken on a troll and won. Just ask the YouTube commenters. Stunningly, they unanimously support the Liberal.

Del Mastro’s dragging his party deeper into an annoying, disturbing ethical morass. Trudeau’s winning on the internet. While his opponents struggle to shed scandal on their way back to Parliament, the Liberal can’t catch a bad break.

 

What’s above the fold

The Globe and Mail Prime Minister Stephen Harper is determined to see Keystone XL approved.
National Post The Harper government may reduce tariffs on many consumer goods.
Toronto Star Ontario’s youth unemployment is worse than struggling American states.
Ottawa Citizen MP Dean del Mastro was charged with election-related offences.
CBC News BlackBerry lost $965 million in the second quarter of 2013.
CTV News BlackBerry’s revenue dropped 49 per cent in a year.
National Newswatch The Senate is examining Retired Liberal senator Rod Zimmer‘s expenses.

What you might have missed

THE NATIONAL Offshore oil. Statoil has found petroleum deposits in the Flemish Pass Basin, off Newfoundland’s coast, that it says could contain between 300 and 600 million barrels of oil. That could amount to the province’s third-largest oil deposit. The rest of the province’s offshore project are in the shallower waters of the Jeanne d’Arc Basin.
THE GLOBAL Iraq. Twenty-three people died in a spate of market attacks in the southern Baghdad neighbourhood of Dora and Sabaa al-Bour, a Shiite village about 30 kilometres north of the capital. Nobody claimed responsibility for the series of bombings, which are just the latest in a months-long surge in violence in the country that’s seen thousands of deaths.
THE QUIRKY Card shark. Stefano Ampollini, a 56-year-old Italian card player, was sentenced to two years in prison after he was convicted of using Chinese-made infrared contact lenses to spot cards marked with invisible ink at a Cannes casino. Ampollini and an accomplice racked up thousands of Euros in winnings before their suspicious behaviour tipped off authorities.


 

Justin Trudeau can’t catch a bad break

  1. And Joe Oliver is in Quebec distributing goodies from
    the Kory Teneyke Memorial Fund.

    • Is that on you tube too?

  2. I am sure Candice Cancade’s 16-year old daughter, who Mom claims is smoking pot and drinking booze already, is thrilled to have that video all over the internets. The woman showed herself a fool — her seemingly vital questions were just lures and when she switched issues, she showed herself as a troll. Oh the rich irony that if her daughter really is getting into substance abuse so young that she wants to blame the future vision instead of the current crime and punishment regime that her husband upholds through his work with Vic.

    Perhaps most importantly, it showed that parents like her don’t know how to deal with their kids’ substance abuse — I mean, if asking a politician about his views is your biggest parenting step, your kids are likely in a bit of trouble!

    And just to annoy, I must say that Trudeau addresses her fairly and sincerely, even when he pats her shoulder and tell her to listen to him.

    • I cringed for the daughter throughout the video.
      At sixteen, she is not likely to be very forgiving that her parent thrust her into the media limelight.

      • And the poor kid’s got a mom more concerned about trolling politicians than finding help for the substance abuse issues. I mean, pot is illegal and buying booze for underage kids is illegal — so why isn’t her husband’s tough on crime government helping her, why does she have to turn to oppo?

        • My gawd patchouli, at this rate you’d have the kid in rehab. A 16 year old who smokes some weed and drinks alcohol does not necessarily have ‘substance abuse issues’. Wasn’t you who told us all that your kid and his friends were pulled over for speeding. Are he and his friends receiving therapy for their ‘drag racing tendencies’. I know you are big on the Liberal party and all but for gawd sakes, try to keep some perspective here and let’s stop earning cheap shots off the kid. After all, weren’t you just expressing outrage that her mother did that to her?
          Further, in Manitoba the legal age to buy booze is 18 year old. That means that this 16 year old girl might be getting her drink on with her 18 year old boyfriend who could be in grade 12 at the same high school. In other words, pretty normal teenage behavior.

          • Sure. But either this woman or her close friend Vic Toews the former minister of justice should be calling the police over the law being broken, or admit that Trudeau is right and they are wrong.

          • Well Trudeau can’t have it both ways either. What is he going to do when legalization of pot doesn’t keep it out of the hands of underage young people. Is he going to blame “the community and parenting?” Just ask the UN, Canadian youth like pot and with 18 year olds able to access it legally for all their friends, how realistic is it that this is going to change? I am in no way against legalization but I am sick of this ridiculous claim that it is for the children’s sake.

          • You are really on a roll, but why be unfair? He didn’t in any way blame anyone when the mother said her daughter also was drinking and had access to alcohol — via old people she said, and JT replied that that was then about more than access: it was also about community, peers and parenting. And that’s true: if the girl’s boyfriend is 18, for example, and he is providing alcohol to his underage girlfriend, then maybe that is a parenting issue about who you are allowed to date.

          • Oh come now. If drinking underage weren’t normal teenage behavior, I might buy this bs but it is. It is pretty much a rite of passage whether you find it acceptable or not. Given that many 12 students who are 17 to 18 years old leave home at that age to attend university, most parents realize that a 16 year old is a little too old for a parent to be deciding who they are allowed to date based on the fact that their date might give them a beer to drink. I am not sure if you have children but the truth is that it is a job of parent of a teenager is to teach them to make the best choices possible….one or two beers vs. six for a 16 year old and call your parents for a ride home from the party is a really good choice.

          • 16 is a little too young to be “dating” at house parties. Teenagers should not be drinking until at the least 18 – because their brains aren’t mature enough, and as an article in Scientific American recently pointed out, drinking, especially binge drinking – is extremely harmful to young brains.
            No you don’t let your kids date and go to house parties where there is going to be drinking – at 16. They haven’t even finished school, and they should be into sports.

          • Elizabeth, do you not realize that teenagers graduate high school at age 17 and MANY go away to university at that age? Are you a parent because you seem oblivious to the reality of what is going on in Canada?

          • So if it is normal teenage behaviour, then surely you agree with JT that we shouldn’t be criminalizing the activity – giving kids records that follow them for life for a little youthful stupidity?

            If they are going to do it regardless, why make them go to criminal organizations and expose them to even greater risks?

            I really don’t follow your argument here at all…

          • Exactly! She seemed to know where her daughter is given the alcohol, when she referred to “the gravel pits right here in town”. If her daughter isn’t being responsible when going to what must be the local party place perhaps her daughter shouldn’t be going there at all? Justin was dead on the mark with his comment about “community and parenting”.

          • Yes parents are to blame if they’re not watching their kids, spending a lot of time with them, making sure they’re into sports and school and NOT going to drunken house parties — indeed it is the fault of parents, and communities could help out more there as well.

          • It would be no different than alcohol I would imagine, so you do have a point. But alcohol is far, far more dangerous than pot. Alcohol has and continues to ruin millions of lives every year. With pot most of the lives being ruined are the result of the criminalization of it rather than the actual use of it. I don’t think the claim ever was that it’s all for the children’s sake. Trudeau made his point very clearly though that legalizing it will not make it easier for kids to access pot. Pot is available everywhere already and it’s a heck of a lot easier for kids to get it from the guy on the street corner than it would be from a licenced dealer. You also have no idea what kind of chemicals they are putting in the illegal stuff and any kid that wants to smoke pot can already buy it, anywhere in this Country. Like alcohol, pot will be illegal for kids under 18. Adults should be able to make their own decisions, and they should also be able to parent their children accordingly. If a 16 year old drinks alcohol, you can hardly blame it on the liquor store. What adult would vote for criminalization of alcohol because teenagers are getting their hands on it.

          • it’s possible that a new program won’t be 100% effective, but it’s a mistake to think it won’t be an improvement. It doesn’t have to be as lax as alcohol enforcement, for example (instead of just one piece of valid ID and you can buy anywhere, you could have tos et up an account with multiple id and verification required to purchase at any outlet, with lifetime revocation if you are caught giving it to minors. Again not 100% effective, but still an improvement on what we have).

          • Nobody is saying it will keep it entirely out of their hands. They are saying it will make it harder to obtain, not impossible. Regulating marijuana will create a trail back to those providing it to minors making it easier to find and charge these providers. Right now, drug dealers lurk hidden amongst the kids through an unspoken code of silence most teens abide by, with no trail making it harder for police to find the source and lay charges. Regulating it will also free up government funds to provide better education around drug use as well as better services for addictions and the homeless. How is any of that worse than what prohibition has done?

          • Not if they’re binge drinking, or even getting drunk. The younger you are when you start drinking (as with smoking), the more likely you are to end up with an alcoholism problem. See also Scientific American on the latest research on the teenage brain and liquor. Permanent damage.

          • Elizabeth, now you have made a leap from indulging in drinking alcohol to “binge drinking.” Would you like to discuss the incidence of psychosis with cannabis use? I am well versed on the subject.

          • Thats why it needs to be controlled – and taxed- clearly banning it does not work. Just as it didn’t work with alcohol in the past.

          • Okay I agree but JT needs to stop with the claim that legalization will keep it out of the hands of underage young people and please….no more bs about bad parenting when an underage kid takes a drink of alcohol. If that was the case, the whole country would be full of bad parents.

          • So you want parental influence removed from the equation? Did you let your kids hang out with kids with parents who set no limits? I certainly didn’t.

          • Well Jan, I just launched an 18 year old and I can tell you that I didn’t have a whole lot of say with who she was “hanging out with”. That influence came a lot earlier on. I encouraged her and her sister (25 years old and married) to be honest and in turn, I promised NEVER to be judgmental and always to pick them up…no questions asked. It worked for us. They told me a lot of things I might have never wanted to hear but I listened and I tried my best to give good advice. Did they never smoke pot or drink alcohol under age? Ha! Did I never smoke pot or drink alcohol under age? Ha! The difference is, they told me about it. I never told my parents or asked them for a ride home when I needed it. You judge what is better.

          • Where in the name of God are you getting the idea that I think you’re a bad parent. I’m a sixties brat, do you think I brought up my daughter with Victorian rules?

          • Jan, I am sorry if you think I am being defensive. I am not. I am very pleased with how my daughter has turned out but I have to be honest about the amount of “parental influence” I actually had while she was in high school. I did try but by that age her peers where very important to her. My mother taught something when I was 16 years old. She told me, “you are almost an adult and you will be on your own soon so I will trust you to start making good decisions now”. I was struck with that incredible level of responsibility and so I raised own daughters the same. My mother raised 9 children…all self-sufficient. I was shooting for the same. Bad or good that is what I shot for. It worked out okay. I never expected perfect and I didn’t get it but I didn’t get awful either.

          • You realize that it was Candice that was complaining to JT about her daughter’s access to and illegal use of drugs. She is trying to blame everyone else for that instead of either accepting it as a normal thing that kids do in the boonies, or accepting some level of responsibility for it.

          • Yes, you are right about her complaining to JT etc. and the truth is there are no magic answers for what she is complaining about so why try to offer them to her. She tried to blame cannabis legalization on her kid hooting and drinking, that was inaccurate, and he could have asked her how legalization of cannabis would stop her daughter from hooting and drinking but rather he offered legalization of pot as a fix that it won’t be and once he did that, he had to “blame” the community and parenting issues for why her 16 year old is drinking alcohol underage. He made it seem as though underage drinking is uncommon in Canada when we know that is not true.
            I ask everyone on here if they truly believe that legalization of pot will keep it out of the hands of the under aged youth and no one says it will so why make that claim?

          • No one is talking about “magic answers” except for you. Legalization removes the criminal element associated with pot.

            As far as accessibility, it is a neutral change. But the money spent in the criminalization of pot can be directed towards more useful areas such as education and social programs for youth. And frankly, the reason why youth drink and do drugs is to escape their boredom. Small isolated communities are more prone to that boredom. As an example, think about how much cigarette use has decreased overall in the past 20 years through government sponsored education and use labels, and through increased restrictions in use. And nicotine has been demonstrated to be far more addictive than THC, and frankly the byproducts of hemp are far more valuable as a sustainable resource.

            I didn’t see an assignment of blame. He suggested that there are other motivations towards the use of pot and underage drinking in communities, and it is important to investigate them rather than blindly adhere to the status quo.

          • Banning tobacco ( for example ) for youth did reduce youth usage- Canada is a leader on that front.
            I didn’t get the sense JT was slamming her parenting – more that he was offering an alternative approach to a busy concerned mom – he was quick on his feet too.

          • Do you think legalization will reduce the use of cannabis among Canadian youth?

          • I don’t know enough about the subject, but surmise it would given the results of tobacco restrictions. If ever it is legalized and taxed I hope it also comes with mandatory explicit health warnings.

          • What a school principal can’t control he/she usually ignores. Drug orders in text messages to the student dealer would be much less convenient if all phones in a school zone were under electronic surveillance. Refocusing enforcement efforts to protect young teens from dealers might help remove the underworld influence from the schools.

          • How many drug dealers ask for ID?

            Underage drinking was one reason that alcohol prohibition was repealed.

          • He never said it would keep it out of their hands; just that it would make it somewhat harder for them to get. Just like alcohol. Not sure if you just aren’t listening to him, or if you are getting a FV-type fixation with JT, but you are misrepresenting what he said. Go back and listen again – to this clip, and to his previous statements. He has been quite clear on the point – at least, I’ve had no problem understanding him.

          • I agree with you completely. It doesn’t work to ban it. There really is no way to keep it away from under age young people. We should legalize it because it is not more detrimental to our health than alcohol.

          • I’m pretty sure you’re a blatant liar on the subject, so no thanks.

          • As a psychiatric nurse, I have no reason to lie.

      • Do you believe the daughter exists?

        • If not, everyone who knows her will know she’s a liar.

        • And does she actually work with addicts? I had a little problem with that. Small town – easy to check. Bets there’s a lot of chatter in the town tonight.

          • If she is “working with addicts”, that would be as an addiction specialist, psychologist/psychiatrist, or a nurse with addiction specialties, or a doctor – otherwise she has no business claiming to work with addicts.

          • It will all come out in the end. I’ll be checking the Winnipeg Free Press tomorrow – it was just a stupid amateur attempt to get Trudeau. Like having recognized Con office staff pretending to be protesters lined up behind him when he gave a press conference outside parliament. Or having them pretend to be new citizens on Sun News. It’s just dumbass stuff.

          • She said she worked at the Food Bank. She said she is “in contact” with a lot of addicts. That does not really suggest any professional designation on her part.

          • The mayor DID recognize her so I guess she does actually live there but other than that, hard to say.

          • Recognized her as the wife of Vic Toews assistant. Fake grass roots – called astro turf. Thinking she wouldn’t be recognized – how dumb is that?

      • No kidding, this is a small town and now everybody knows she’s one of ‘those kids’ who hangs out at the – gravel pit(?). Mind you, I guess babysitting is considered a riskier activity.

        • In small towns, all summer parties are at the gravel pit. As a teenager, it isn’t a bad thing. It just is.

    • Oh cripes – totally forgot about the daughter and how her troll-mother exposed her to the world now, talking to the most attractive politician in Canada – and looking like an idiot. Didn’t she say she was drinking and toking in a gravel pit?

    • Maybe the 16 year old doesn’t even exist. As for the “substance abuse” bs on your part, the woman never said she was abusing the drugs, she said she was indulging.

      • The CPC do enjoy making up things. heck, maybe she’s not even a food bank worker, she could be Tony Clement’s staffer for all we know.

        • Very true. Let’s hope she doesn’t have a 16 year old daughter.

        • Yeah, could be made up: would any self-respecting parent with a toking, boozing 16-year old daughter alow that daughter to come within a stone’s throw of Ol’ Man Toews?

          • At 16 she would be too old to babysit.

          • But not tooo old to BE the babysitter.

          • No! 16 year olds don’t usually babysit. At 16, one can get a real job. Also, one can have a drivers’ license, etc.

          • How old was Toews ‘babysitter’? If she was younger than 16…..

          • Maybe she was a nanny…anything else is just soooo unpalatable…

          • No kidding, but older men who prey on young girls aren’t concerned with age or job description.

          • Clearly you don’t have a flying clue about sixteen year old girls. They not only babysit, they dog walk and house-sit – where do you get your ideas about teenagers, from your great-grandchildren?

          • Well thanks for asking, Elizabeth. I just launched an 18 year old daughter. I appreciate that you think I am wise beyond my years but I am actually only 50 years old. Nice of you to think of me that way though.

          • From the time I was 15 to the time I was 19, I was almost full time on the problem of 16 year old girls.

            It got so confusing that I finally dropped a note to the great Sigmund Freud asking him to help me out.

            He wrote back saying, “Johnny, tink of it dis vay” …….. “Vomen, vat do they vant from me?”

            It’s a problem that can’t be solved. Even Freud couldn’t figure it out. And look what happened to Bill Clinton.

    • Before you pat yourselves too hard on the back just remember, Justin just called into question the parenting abilities of every parent with a teenager under legal age who has indulged in a beer. You might think drinking a beer is “substance abuse” and that parents are grateful for Justin’s counsel but I can assure you, there are many out there who will find his conclusions unwelcome.

      • Why do you insist on scolding me whenever we arrive at the same blog, nurse? It’s too shrill, too Francienesque in consistency and repetitiveness. Some would call it trolling.

        • Are you patchouli? I’m sorry I take real exception to him suggesting that young people displaying typical teenager behavior have “substance abuse problems”. I don’t mean to scold but that irks me big time.

        • “Nurse”? Are you kidding? More like floor cleaner in the hospital.

          • I think you sent your message to the wrong person, Elizabeth. I am a psychiatric nurse. I have been one for 18 years. I do clean the floors when there are blood and other bodily fluids spilled because that is the responsibility of a nurse. I live in Calgary and perhaps one day will meet you on a unit.

          • So are you a psychiatric *nurse* or a *psychiatric* nurse. Beginning to think the latter.

            Nurses are the absolute worst in the health care system to deal with. I remember one got butthurt at me when I went over her head and went to an MD to get the Rx I needed, which she thought was unnecessary. (Antibiotics, BTW.)

          • You question my intelligence, my sanity and credentials and yet you write-off a whole professional as “the absolute worst to deal with in the health care system” based on one unpleasant incident you had with one person within the profession. You know, T.J., people can have differing views on issues without stooping to question someone’s mental competence.

      • Get yourself onto Twitter and see how you make out in the real world with those comments.

        • Twitter is the “real word”. As someone who works in psychiatry, I find that hard to believe.

          • It’s that the feedback is times infinity.

      • Lauren Harper called out the parents of bullies today – also calling for parental responsibility. Parental responsibility is always an issue.

        • Laureen Harper aside, if my kid was making another kid suicidal, I would want to know. In the 1980’s I worked for the phone company and they cancelled service for anyone who was caught making harassing calls. I think it is the right thing to do.
          However, if my kid is having a hoot and a beer, jeepers I did it….I don’t think it is the end of the world. I will pick them up at a party. Does that make me a terrible parent?

          • Look, deal with what I’m saying, don’t try calling me some sort of prude. When I was young – I did everything, so did my daughter.But when she was teenager I didn’t sleep a lot worrying about her. I then realize my mother must have done the same. So stop with the casual – oh, kids will kids routine. There are hazards at every turn. But the teenage years are risky times – it’s mostly luck if we get through them unscathed. Not everybody does, Part of that luck is having positive parenting. By the way, my daughter is now 40, raising 3 small kids and is very aware what she is facing as the kids enter those years when they face all the temptations we’ve faced.

          • How exactly are we disagreeing? I never called you a prude. I am pretty sure you weren’t one from your comments about your university years. I am only trying to be realistic. My kids aren’t 40. My youngest is 18. I am in the middle of it right now as I have been for the past 3 year or so years. She is living on her own and of course I worry but at the same time, she is her own person and I can’t belittle her for being curious and doing the same things every other person her age does. What will the worrying do? I can only promise to be there when she calls for help, if she does.

      • Good catch

  3. Two points, somewhat related – The Harper Conservatives rely on dishonesty when engaging in discussion, and it’s best to attack them head on (I am thinking of Trudeau’s twitter fight with kenney over “barbaric cultures/barbaric cultural practices” where he backed down when he shouldn’t have”.

    • It’s hard to win such an argument when you rely so heavily on nuance. I mostly think he should have kept his thoughts to himself there, rather then risk looking pc, which he did. That, or as you say, go all in and don’t back down. I’m glad he seems to be doing more of the latter lately, and far less of the former fortunately.[ i should get extry points for that finish eh]

      • He’ll be more sure of himself in future. Saw him get into an argument with Shelley Glover once, and saw a flash of the fire that’s to come. He backed down and apologized, but it was at that moment that I realized there is a lot more to Trudeau than he was letting on at the time. He underplayed himself, best to be underestimated, and that’s what happened.

  4. What a lovely little puff piece for Junior.

    But really? YouTube commentators represent public opinion?

    If the internets most vile, racist commentators think Trudeau’s a winner, he must be Aces. Of course your average YouTube commentator would root from Jeffrey Dahmer if he promised them weed.

    Edit: Read the comments, phew. Just Liberal fity-centers filling up the thread like they’re paid to (e.g. patcholi, emily1 here).

    • I see that they disabled comments from that youtube site now. Nor can you view previous comments. That is what I call pathetic. Can’t stand all the negative comments towards Ms. Cancade & the Conservative party being called out for trolling, and all of a sudden no more comments allowed

    • So other than putting down youtube commenters and some of the MacLean’s ones too (me included) — do you have ANYTHING to say about what you see in the video? Or did you skip that too?

    • Funny, ironic even. i’ve seen plenty of borderline comments from you on various boards – mostly NP i believe.

    • From now on, I’m leaning toward italicizing every sarcastic thing I write.

      • (Re-reads paragraph) Ahhh… doh! (Sheepish sotto voce) Yeah… italicizing might help.

      • Ah that’s what the stunningly was there for. I did wonder, but not quite long enough for it to sink in. Don’t give in NTV. Don’t lower your standards cuz we’re kind of thick some days. We would’ve worked it out in the end – some of us anyway. You were serious about the trolling though, right.

          • :)))

      • Large caps and in red wouldn’t hurt either for some.

    • Could you explain why you think only the internets most vile and racist people said Trudeau was a winner.
      What expertise do you have on internet commenters ?
      Are you just making this up like a child would ?

    • Jeffrey Dahmer can’t promise weed to YouTube commentators. He died in 1994. Before YouTube.

    • The usual suspects thumb that up.

  5. Watch the woman’s eyes, especially near the beginning: they flick back and forth like Mojo’s — and when people’s eyes flicker like that, they are often dissembling.

    • Who’s mojo? lol

      I actually started to feel for her, JT kept piling it on and you could see her looking for the exit…”What the F’k did i accept this assignment for? Wait till i see that bast**d Rick again.”
      She didn’t do that bad on the whole.

      Hand on the shoulder: “I’ve been listening to you. You need to listen to what I’m saying.”
      That will become a classic when they finally write up the story of JT. His pappa would have been proud. I almost wish he’d make it his election slogan.

      That said, it’s bound to turn up in a Tory attack ad.

      • Without the “I’ve been listening to you” part, undoubtedly.

        • It’s the teacher in him. I had a pretty big grin on my face when i saw him do that. Lot’s of other people who work in education will get it too.
          But, as you say, it will fuel up those who can’t stand the thought of teacher schooling them. The society for the upmanship of controlling parents will be up in arms over the bossiness of the teacher politician.
          I loved it. The more real distinctions he boldly makes like that the happier i will be.

      • I think the liberals could easily refute such an attack ad by sharing some of this footage in advance – including the mayor’s intro of course.

  6. “this protracted squabble”

    Is that more or less serious than an administrative dispute?

  7. Someone skilled in the Toew’s school of how to debate a contentious subject takes on politician who has done his homework on the subject – what could possibly go wrong with that?
    edit: Sigh…always watch the video first. Regardless of whether she was intentionally trolling or not she raised a very valid point, one that concerns me[ particularly bad in the north] That’s the issue of bootlegging. Older kids already bootleg booze to younger kids, they will grass too. But I liked Trudeau’s response though – it is a parenting/community issue – exactly! and it no way invalidates the argument for controlling access in general through regulation, since illegal access is already there.
    If they can find a way to keep some of the profits/taxes in the worst affected communities[ or return it through some other means] and plow that money into youth and at risk kids[ including the bootleggers, not all of whom are vicious criminals. The schools, the teachers in our community have a pretty good idea who they are, mostly they’re just damaged goods themselves, giving them MM sentences will solve nothing] if they can do that, this can work. The status quo is not acceptable – not working as JT says. What they mustn’t do is set up another bureaucratic monolith to handle it – try and work with the wishes of the local communities, very few of whom will want to see these kids in jail.

    • Legal or not, kids will always have access to pot just like they have access to beer. A lot of older teens are going to party, just like they did when I was a kid. Think about this though. Who do they get their alcohol from? Older friends or relatives buy it for them or maybe they use fake identification and buy it themselves. They do not buy it from drug dealers who may very well offer them far worse drugs. How often do you think the police have someone call them and say, “my pot dealer offered me cocaine?” That never happens. What if liquor store clerks started offering people walking in off the street methamphetamine though? The cops would be there in no time.

      We don’t want our kids smoking pot. We don’t want them getting drunk. Many will do this anyway though, legal or not. Wouldn’t it be better if they got their pot the same way they get their beer rather than from drug dealers liable to offer them far worse drugs? The same applies to young adults. The black market for illegal drugs is mostly a black market for marijuana. It is by far the most popular illegal drug. But, the other far worse drugs are also sold in this black market. Pot smokers are often offered these other drugs while looking for pot. If they buy these other drugs they share them with their friends. Keeping pot illegal ensures that millions will be exposed to the really bad stuff. Taking marijuana out of the black market would shrink it by several orders of magnitude and actually make it harder for big drug gangs to get their product out to people who might be open to trying it and who would not go to the police because they are already violating the drug laws by using marijuana. They will lose this access to millions of people.

      This woman is worried that legalizing marijuana will cause more addiction to life ruining drugs because of the “gateway effect.” Marijuana has no physical property that changes people and makes them want to stick needles in their arms. Tobacco and alcohol are also gateway drugs in that people who use them are several times more likely to use a drug like cocaine than those who neither smoke nor drink. For various reasons, some people are just attracted to intoxicants and those who are like that are more likely to want to use illegal drugs too. The association with the really addictive stuff is greater with marijuana, not because of some special property of marijuana, but because marijuana is illegal and sold from the same black market where the other drugs are sold and that increases exposure to those drugs along with availability for the millions who smoke marijuana. Legalizing and regulating marijuana should actually reduce the number of people who even try the hard stuff, not increase that number.

      • This woman might not have a well thought out argument but neither does Justin. Who really believes that kids won’t get pot if it is legalized. He needs to stop making this claim as it is preposterous.

        • Of course they’ll get it, if they want to – just like alcohol. But they won’t be buying it from somebody attached to organized crime whose end game is to get someone hooked on something like cocaine or heroin and then will need to engage in criminal activity to pay for their habit. This is how pushers are recruited. Far better they get tf from older kids who buy it for them, in the same way they supply alcohol to them. Of course some will always seek out the harder stuff, but keeping the system in place as is, because it may not prevent some kids from getting the really nasty stuff shouldn’t prevent us from trying a more rational approach.

          • Jan, I completely agree with what YOU are saying. I am not at all against legalization. Alcohol and cannabis are no different to me. I just wish JT would stop with his assertions about keeping it away from youth and get to the truth. We want it away from organized crime. I know you and I don’t agree on much but I had a real laugh when I saw your comment about how a book should be used….

          • The point is to keep youth away from the agents of organized crime. Kids are recuited by dangling marijuana in front of them and then turning them onto harder drugs and then they HAVE to sell drugs in order to pay for their habit. This is how they get girls to prostitute themselves – turn them into addicts and then they have to turn tricks. The real danger is not the drug, but who kids have to associate with in order to get it.

          • I agree with you completely but I don’t know why we can’t just be honest and say that cannabis and alcohol are really about the same thing so they should both be legalized.

          • Unfortunately there is still the reefer madness mentality being presented, instead of rational argument.

          • This is true. However, treating parents as though they are negligent because their underage kids have a few beers isn’t the answer either. I am not sure what is the answer. I am shocked by the people on this thread. Did they seriously NOT know their kids were drinking underage OR are they EmilyOne and believing they can suppress this activity, knowing they are sending this youngsters off to university?

          • I missed somebody saying that. Again, parents are crucial. I was the kind of parent who came to my house when they were a mess/thought they might be pregnant etc. because they were afraid to talk to their overly strict parents. But there is no secret formula for raising children – some wonderful parents have children have kids that become addicted despite their upbringing. As you know some people have a genetic disposition for addictive behavior.

          • Certainly. However, not everyone is willing to see that even kids with a few problems have the ability to grow into great adults when someone believes in them. Drinking alcohol in your teenage years is fairly typical behavior, not cause for great alarm or signs that parents are negligent.

          • My background is in Criminology, in particular juvenile delinquents, as we affectionately refer to them, I am too aware that some children, who now only do not have positive parenting experience, are usually neglected and abused. The ones that end up in detention almost always have substance abuse problems based on exposure to the criminal drug world. They are vulnerable in a way that middle class kids are not. This is where the concept of community comes, which I think Trudeau is talking about. They’re the kids who come to school dirty and hungry. They’re easily identified early on and are the ones who are at risk for drug addiction as they get older and are easy recruits to sell drugs. So ignoring them costs all of us.

    • There will always be bootleggers, in liquor at least. But not in pot – because why would organized crime get into selling pot that’s got to be cheaper than the legal stuff, or nobody would bother with it? Right? Organized crime sells pot because they make money with it. Once it’s legalized – it won’t be worth it for them because it can be bought probably at a liquor store. Predictions from business interests are that it’s going to become a big business, like wine.

      • Hopefully the legal stuff will be cheaper than the street stuff. But why wouldn’t bootleggers peddle the stuff to kids even if its cheaper? And remember kids will still be able to get it on the street, they’ll just have to pay more. The ideal would be the loss the dealer incurs on his illegal trade would not make business as usual worth while.
        Another bonus might be that in smaller communities the dealers are known. So the cops could post no sell notices in the outlet.

        • I think the kids are more likely to get it from older people who’ve acquired it legally, just the way they get alcohol. We used to know of liquor bootleggers in Nova Scotia, but that was in the 60s; knew a guy who had a still on his land in Manitoba (you can lose your land if you’re caught AFAIK). I don’t know what the status is on booze bootleggers and stills nowadays. But – if that type of bootlegging has faded out, (especially since people can legally make beer and wine at home) then maybe the street pot-seller will eventually disappear.
          It’s just ridiculous that you can go to jail for six months under this government, for simple marijuana possession. Plus a $1000 fine. They just want to fill up their buddies’ private jails – but I think Harper is sensing that public opinion is with legalizing.

          And as was noted in Macleans, we could have a world-famous industry in pot, different varieties, like wine – and pot-sniffers instead of wine tasters. More reliable growth than grapes, with climate change, that’s for sure.

      • California is so ahead on this – they have all sorts of forms of it like lozenges, tinctures, food products. Smoking a joint is really pretty primitive at this point. I haven’t touched the stuff in 30 years, but I want to be able to get my hands on some if I ever get put into some old age home – a little candy jar to help escape the reality of life at that point.

    • In Manitoba as in Alberta, the legal age for buying alcohol is 18 years of age so these “bootleggers” are in highschool. They are the grade 12 friends of these 15, 16 and 17 year olds. In some cases, they are the boyfriends and girlfriends of these underage young people. When pot is legalized, these 18 year olds will be sharing that with their friends who are underage. That is why this stance that legalization will keep drugs out of the hands of the under aged is a complete fallacy. It is also not true that it is a parenting problem or even a community problem that normal teenagers are sharing liquor and pot, unless this problem is old as the beginning of time. In Europe, very young teens are able to drink wine at restaurants with their families.
      Of course, this it is ridiculous to criminalize cannabis when there is no difference between alcohol and cannabis but let’s not be naive enough to believe that legalization is going to keep it away from underage young people. That is a load of crap.

      • “That is why this stance that legalization will keep drugs out of the hands of the under aged is a complete fallacy”

        The important thing is to cut out the dealer. Obviously the retail legal price will have to undercut the street price. Most the the bootleggers and dealers are older, even parents. And they use underage runners. They may even be able to keep the dealers out of the retail outlets altogether, in fact they’ll have to. As for older siblings sharing, that is already happening.And why will it be any more of a problem then the sharing of alcohol with siblings? You are mistaken, it is a parental/community issue. It could get worse. But there are ways to make it tougher to get legally ie., raise the age to 21, or limit how much a person can buy at one time. That will be harder in the city. But no one is claiming this would be a magic bullet. Just getting to the adult market and starting to dry up the illegal market will be a big blow to dealers.
        Disagree, not crap at all. Certainly no worse.

        • You are right…cut out the dealer but that is NOT what JT is saying.
          He also isn’t suggesting raising the age of legalization. Before you came to Canada (when I was a youngster in the 1960’s) in my province of Alberta, the legal age for drinking alcohol was 21. My brother who is in his early 60’s turned 18 just when it was lowered to 18. It won’t go back up.

          I appreciate that you are talking about the far north when you say it is a parenting and community issue. I can tell you that in the south (not so far north), teens have been smoking pot and drinking alcohol since long before I was a teen. Most have no substance abuse issues. They party in highschool and as they mature, they tend to indulge less.
          Suggesting cannabis will be harder to get when legal isn’t accurate when an 18 year old in grade 12 can buy it for all their friends. Whether you agree or not, it is a fact in some provinces. Justin’s claim isn’t very accurate. Blaming parenting because teenagers like to party is not a very good strategy either.

          • There’s no reason that age for legally buying dope has to the same as alcohol, and buying and sharing with your friends happens now – just illegally. Admittedly that could be a problem if the legal cost is less then the street price and the legal age is too low. But here we get into the advantages of regulation once more. You don’t want your kid buying dope legally because you suspect they may be dealing, you make sure the retailer knows. Parents do bear a responsibility also. Maybe the schools can forward or post lists of those who should not be getting custom. One way or another it will involve the whole community.
            Regulation of both the supply and the retail end of the trade ought to make it easier to catch or box out the dealers – at least in smaller communities. And that is what JT is saying.
            There’s a split in my house. My spouse remain convinced that decriminalization is enough – that you fine more or less on the spot. $100 fine for possession each and every time may work it may not.But she’s more often right then i am. The kids in our town have money for worse, so who knows what’ll work. I’ll support anything that cuts out the dealer and redirects profits back into rehab/prevention/enforcement and the like. And decriminalization still punishes the recreational adult user. No perfect solutions i guess.

          • kcm2, I appreciate that you write many intelligent, well thought out posts but let’s be honest here. The age of legalization is not going to change.
            Blaming parents is a bad strategy. Accepting that pot access and alcohol access need to be regulated exactly the same because inevitably they are the same sorts of drugs…neither is better than the other…. is likely the best argument for legalization.

          • You are welcome for the compliment. You earned it. I am sorry but I find it hard to believe they would make any different choice in the legalization age and rightly so. Beer and cannabis is really no different.

          • When my daughter was a teenager, she had friends whose parents let the kids bring alcohol to their house and party. There are some clueless parents.

          • I certainly never did that but there were kids that showed up drunk and we kept them at the house and called their parents so they would get home safe.

          • Buying from their friends and/or older siblings rather than a junkie/dealer – can you appreciate the difference? That’s what Trudeau is talking about. And parental influence is always key, always.

          • I am not sure Jan, that Trudeau appreciates the difference. I am not saying it is his fault. He is the father of young children. He doesn’t live in a province where the drinking age is 18. It isn’t a parent’s fault that their kids experiment but rather the nature of the beast. I did it. I would have been shocked if my own kids didn’t do it. I would find anyone who suggests their kids are doing it to be completely naive. Older friends and siblings buying alcohol is no more troubling than them buying pot and the truth is it will go on forever. Parents who want their children to be safe will offer them a ride home whenever they need it, no questions asked.

          • Buying from dealers is the problem which I have explained several times. Try and get your mind off Trudeau and just discuss the subject. Notice, nobody’s bringing Harper into this discussion.

          • I believe this thread is about Trudeau.

      • As Trudeau rightfully pointed out — that is a parenting problem. If you’re not watching your kids, if you allow them to go to whatever party someone is having in a house – and if you don’t parent properly, then your kids are more likely to be drinking and drugging.

        No law is going to make up for negligent and poor parenting.

        • Yes, Elizabeth, spoken like a woman who has no teenage children. Are you suggesting that parents patrol them like police until they send them off to university? You can pretend that drinking and smoking weed and sex isn’t happening or you can wake up and smell the coffee and try to give your soon to be young adults some guidance. Wasn’t Justin smoking pot as a teenager? If not, why would he smoke it as a 40 year old? I thought you Liberals were cool and at the very least, realistic. Are you telling me, you send your kids to university in a far away place without having a clue what they are doing at a party? Shame, Elizabeth, reality is your friend.

          • You really are an idiot. By the way, the word is “woman”, singular, not “women” which is plural.

            Vote Liberal, you might get an education.

          • There, their, they’re Elizabeth. The last bastion of the truly frustrated is to seize on a spelling error and turn it into a reason to stomp and scorn.

          • I thought that “idiot” was a pretty economical expression of the truth that stares all the posters here in the face.

          • Elizabeth, are you suggesting that as a Liberal you don’t appreciate the viewpoints of the people who are not in agreement with Mr. Trudeau?

          • Spoken like a woman who thinks she’s the only one whose raised teenagers. I only had one child, but that’s all you really need to know the dangers. Why do you have to keep bringing politics into this – this is a social/legal/health problem that needs us rising above petty politics. In B.C. we have a group of former A.G’s from both sides of the aisle, former conservative and progressive mayors of Vancouver, medical experts etc. who have formed a group to fight for legalization because out here we have a front row seat on the failure of the war on drugs.

          • I am sorry you take issue with my response to Elizabeth. I come from a VERY large family. To suggest a parent can and should control the friends that a 16 year old interacts with is folly at best given that at age 17 to 18 that teenager will be likely going off to university in a different city from their parents and making adult decisions all on their own. I never claimed to be the only person who raised teenagers but I certainly doubt that anyone who says their teenager never drank alcohol and smoked week underage is being at all honest. I have never pretended to believe that pot should not be legalized. At same time, I have never looked down my nose at parents whose children liked to party and especially I never judged anyone with substance abuse issues, knowing it was an illness.

  8. JT demonstrated real skill there -( compassion and smarts ) -it’s little wonder he is generating so much attention.

    • In fact, I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see parts of this interview used in a Liberal campaign ad at some point.

  9. As for Dean.. how will he explain that cheque?

  10. Legal or not, kids will always have access to pot just like they have access to beer. A lot of older teens are going to party, just like they did when I was a kid. Think about this though. Who do they get their alcohol from? Older friends or relatives buy it for them or maybe they use fake identification and buy it themselves. They do not buy it from drug dealers who may very well offer them far worse drugs. How often do you think the police have someone call them and say, “my pot dealer offered me cocaine?” That never happens. What if liquor store clerks started offering people walking in off the street methamphetamine though? The cops would be there in no time.

    We don’t want our kids smoking pot. We don’t want them getting drunk. Many will do this anyway though, legal or not. Wouldn’t it be better if they got their pot the same way they get their beer rather than from drug dealers liable to offer them far worse drugs? The same applies to young adults. The black market for illegal drugs is mostly a black market for marijuana. It is by far the most popular illegal drug. But, the other far worse drugs are also sold in this black market. Pot smokers are often offered these other drugs while looking for pot. If they buy these other drugs they share them with their friends. Keeping pot illegal ensures that millions will be exposed to the really bad stuff. Taking marijuana out of the black market would shrink it by several orders of magnitude and actually make it harder for big drug gangs to get their product out to people who might be open to trying it and who would not go to the police because they are already violating the drug laws by using marijuana. They will lose this access to millions of people.

    This woman is worried that legalizing marijuana will cause more addiction to life ruining drugs because of the “gateway effect.” Marijuana has no physical property that changes people and makes them want to stick needles in their arms. Tobacco and alcohol are also gateway drugs in that people who use them are several times more likely to use a drug like cocaine than those who neither smoke nor drink. For various reasons, some people are just attracted to intoxicants and those who are like that are more likely to want to use illegal drugs too. The association with the really addictive stuff is greater with marijuana, not because of some special property of marijuana, but because marijuana is illegal and sold from the same black market where the other drugs are sold and that increases exposure to those drugs along with availability for the millions who smoke marijuana. Legalizing and regulating marijuana should actually reduce the number of people who even try the hard stuff, not increase that number.

    • I am not sure where you live Bill but where I live, the legal drinking age is 18. Grade 12 students are 18. We didn’t need someone else to boot.

      • 19 in Ontario and, if you looked young (which I did), we did need someone. It wasn’t all that easy.

        • Well in Alberta and Manitoba, it is 18 and most grade 12 students are that age.

  11. “Harper’s team must be growing weary of playing defence on ethics. “

    Agreed. A fix comes to mind, but it’s too obvious and would be completely out of character for elected members of the Conservative Party.

  12. The Harper Conservatives keep falling into their own traps. They’re the Wile E Coyote of Canadian politics.

  13. It’s truly amazing how the media will declare Justin Trudeau as the winner of a debate simply by pointing out that his opponent supports another political party.

    And in 2015 the media and Liberal shills everywhere won’t be able to understand why nobody voted for this trust fund baby.

    • Maybe Conservative MP’s staff should stop using their wives to try and lay traps for Trudeau.

      • Poorly laid traps! She was definitely in over her head.

    • I guess he could have gone into detail about how the “gateway drug” argument is a fallacy and how there is no evidence that legalization will increase marijuana use, but then poor lil’ NotRicky would be crying about how unfair repeating facts is.

      • It’s BS that it’s a “gateway drug”. If anything is a gateway drug, it’s alcohol, which makes you lose inhibitions, so you’ll try cigarettes, pot, wild sex, driving like an idiot – that sort of thing. Pot doesn’t make you lose your inhibitions – which you probably already know – and anyone who wants to know more really should check with a drug and alcohol treatment centre to see which is the most dangerous, alcohol or pot.

        • “Gateway drug” means it leads to other stronger drugs. I don’t think pot is a stronger drug than alcohol.

      • lenny, I agree with you that he should talk about the research indicating that pot is not a gateway drug and that legalization will not increase use but he needs to stop his claims that legalization will keep it away from underage young people. No one buys that.

        • The gateway is the pusher who needs to get a kid onto something truly addictive so he will be a steady customer and can be recruited, to sell to his friends. This is how organized drug crime works – it’s like Amway.

    • He “won” (if that’s how you want to measure things) by actually listening, interacting, and responding sincerely and with conviction. No talking down; no accusations that she must be “with” some despised group because she opposed his viewpoint.

      Of course, you’d know that if you took the time to watch the clip.

      • Keith, he had win on the addictions issue but he dropped the ball when she brought up her daughter using booze. Claiming that was a ‘community and parenting issue’ was condescending and BS. In Manitoba kids in grade 12 can buy booze legally. Her daughter is 16 and likely has many friends are 18. That is not a community or parenting issue. If pot is legalized, 18 year olds will be buying for their 16 year old friends at the liquor store as well. Will he blame parents for that? Will you want to blamed for “poor parenting” when you daughter takes a hoot and has a beer with her buddies when she is 16 or 17? I did it and my parents neither drank nor hooted and they were pretty excellent parents. He needs to drop the claim that legalization will keep pot out of the hands of the under aged. It is not accurate.

        • His point re “community issues” is that legal or not, it’s going to happen to some extent and that community values are more likely to have an influence on behaviour than a law that actually aids and abets criminals in making a profit (and criminalizes the behaviors of youths, leaving them with a record for life). You actually have a better shot at control when its use is legal but restricted.

          • Yes but he told that mother that if her 16 year old daughter is drinking alcohol that is a “community and parenting issue”….Ha! That is normal teenager behavior and if he thinks legalizing pot is going to stop 16 year olds from indulging in smoking it, he is delusional.

          • Of course it’s a “community and parenting issue”. What else would it be?

          • No issue at all….given that every typical teenager is doing it. Maybe, you, lenny weren’t typical but I can assure you that the great majority of underage teens have had a drink of alcohol and therefore, suggesting it might be related to poor parenting isn’t going to resonate well with many Canadians.

          • Then why didn’t you say “it’s not an issue” or simply refrain from commenting?

            It’s obviously an issue to the woman in question.

            So, Trudeau should have told her, it’s not an issue for you and your community – it’s simply not an issue?

          • Well, lenny, once he told her there would be no issue with pot when it was legalized, he pretty much had to say ‘something’ when she said legalization had NOT made alcohol unreachable for underage teens. He stepped into it because he continues to insist that legalization of pot will keep it out of the hands of the under aged. He presented as naive. By saying it was a community and parenting issue that alcohol is still available to underage teens, he is suggesting that pot won’t available to underage teens once it is legal. He cannot promise that. When just as many Canadian underage teens are smoking it, he will have to suggest it too is a parenting and community issue. I can tell you, no parent wants to hear that everything is their fault, especially typical teenage behavior. Justin Trudeau admitted he smoked pot as a young person. Who would believe he didn’t have a drink of alcohol before he was of legal age?

          • You’re totally incoherent.
            First kids using alcohol and pot isn’t an issue for parents and the community. Then it isn’t an issue at all. Now, I have no idea what your answer to my question is.

            The fact is, marijuana regulated in the same way as alcohol will be more difficult for teens to access.

            Nobody is claiming that legalization will be the end of pot use for then entire underage population of the country.

          • Really, JT is claiming that legalization will keep pot out of the hands of the under aged. I call bs on his assertion. Is that coherent enough for you?

          • Ah, I see what you’re doing.

            You’ve decided to pretend Trudeau’s comments are to be literally interpreted as, not a single under-aged person will ever use pot again when it’s legalized! and then repeated over and over again how wrong that is.
            Have fun with that.

          • So you are saying his comments weren’t meant to be taken ‘literally’ but rather metaphorically? Thank you. Do you have a paid position as a spokesperson for the Liberal Party of Canada?

          • Yes healthcareinsider, literally no child will ever smoke marijuana again.

            And I was also contracted with the Conservatives. Unfortunately when they introduced the bill to “stop child pornography” nobody was stupid enough to try and pretend they were claiming the bill would completely and entirely end the practice of child pornography, so I never collected anything on that one.

          • I see lenny so when Justin said legalization will keep cannabis out of the hands of under aged youth, that wasn’t really true was it?

          • If it makes access harder, and thereby reduces access, then yes it’s certainly true.
            Did you play this little game with the bill to “stop child pornography?” Counterattack programs to “stop drinking and driving?” etc. etc.

          • lenny, I am all for legalizing cannabis. I just don’t believe it will keep it out of the hands of underage youth. Your boss should try a different sales pitch…get it away from organized crime.

          • How about answering my question?

          • I don’t believe JT’s “program” will reduce access to cannabis for youth.
            As for bills to stop child pornography, drunk driving, etc……lenny, you are actually going to compare a relatively benign substance such as cannabis to child pornography and drunk driving even though both of those crimes are completely unpalatable. Geez lenny, give it a rest. No one cares if your boss is having a hoot around the pool and if Rob Ford is have ‘a lot’ of hoots around the pool. Don’t insult us though by trying to compare child pornography with having a hoot around the pool. That is beneath even you, lenny.

          • Wow, now you’re going to pretend I’m comparing the act of consuming marijuana to the acts of producing child pornography and drunk driving?
            It’s not so much that you’re lying that’s surprising, as the fact that it’s such a stupid, transparent lie, made plain by the very comment you’re responding to.

            And who is my “boss” in this make-believe land of yours?

          • lenny, if you don’t think the laws are comparable, why did you ask me to compare them? As for your boss…if you aren’t working for the LPC, you should be. They owe you money for your diligence and hard work on their behalf. Now that you have stooped so low as to suggest that I am stupid and transparent, however, I will have to finish this conversation of sorts. It is no longer agreeable to me. I think I told you another time that I don’t appreciate being maligned by people with no manners. Goodbye.

          • You know very well I’m comparing the use of language.
            You won’t answer whether you also consider programs to “stop drinking and driving” or “stop child pornography” to be claiming they’ll entirely eliminate these things because your entire disingenuous point will vapourize.

            Could you let them know about that money they owe me? I’ll save it for the lawyer I’ll need when I’m arrested after Trudeau is elected and tries to ram Kinder Morgan through.

          • She’s turned in to Francien tonight. I’m giving up.

          • I am becoming more and more persuaded that the expert nurse and the crazed painter are the same commenter. I mean, could there be more than one so determined to take over threads and keep flogging long-dead horses to make some kind of weird point that nobody else gets? One hopes not.

          • Yes, patchouli and according to Emily, I am KeithBram as well. Pardon me, for inserting myself in your “love-a-thon” for your leader. I obviously didn’t understand that this was a Justin Trudeu fan page. I will know much better next time and keep my opinions to myself.

          • Good, we’ll see if you can keep your word. At this time, there are 193 comments on this thread, and at least 65 are yours; I stopped counting at this one. You are not conversing, or sharing ideas; rather you are yelling and trying to overrule the opinions of others, and not once did you stop and listen to anyone else’s views: you just shriek and scold and berate. You seem to believe you have something vital to offer, but nobody else has. You share nothing incommon with Keith Bram, who, even when expressing views that are different from mine, is fair, makes sense and doesn’t clog up the boards. But you sure do have the same MO as Francien. And nobody can stand Francien, not even those who string her along.

        • ” If pot is legalized, 18 year olds will be buying for their 16 year old friends at the liquor store as well.”

          Which is still harder than being able to buy it for themselves.

          • Do you really think legalizing pot will keep it out of the hands of underage young people because that is what JT is claiming.

          • Didn’t I respond to you on this issue in another thread? I remember mentioning that it was more difficult for people I knew to buy alcohol.

          • People you know…how old are these people. I only had my daughter who was in high school to measure by. There seemed to be no difficulty getting alcohol or pot.

          • I had trouble. My friends had trouble. How old are they? Older now. Definitely of age now.

          • I’m not sure why you’re asking me that, unless you can’t understand the meaning of the simple, single sentence I posted.

          • lenny, my daughter just graduated from highschool. She NEVER had a problem obtaining alcohol from an 18 year old in the school. What Justin is promising is that legalization of pot will keep it out of the hands of the under aged. He cannot deliver on his promise.

    • He won because she is an idiot with tired, debunked talking points handed to her by the PMO.

  14. “Stunningly, they unanimously support the Liberal.”
    There was nothing stunning about it.
    The man spoke the words most Canadians agree with.
    They may also have disliked the, what seems to be, normal use of dirty tricks by a conservative.

  15. Nice one, Justin! He knows what he’s talking about, he has the power of his own convictions, he knows he’s right, and he’s not afraid to take on hecklers. She’ll never have a chance to talk to that Prime Minister again.
    Plus – she’s permanently labelled as a Troll.

  16. It is beyond me why he is still peddling this ridiculous claim that legalizing pot will keep it out of the hands of the under aged when in many provinces the legal age is 18 years old. Those 18 year olds are in grade 12 and of course they are sharing booze with their friends in grade 11 and 10 so why wouldn’t they share pot. Then to suggest that ‘parenting and community’ are responsible because under age kids drink booze…please! What is he going to say when pot is legalized and underage kids are still getting it and using it….then it will be the fault of the parents? Let’s face it Justin, the right reason to legalize pot has nothing to do with keeping it out of the hands of underage young people but rather to get it away from the control of the criminal element. The united nations pointed out that we have a lot of young people smoking pot and that isn’t going to magically change because an 18 year old buddy has to buy for them at the liquor store.

  17. Nice to set up a straw man.

    Instead why don’t you review the evolution of the Elections Act regulations at issue, and whether or not someone accepting, then rejecting a donation is a transgression?

    In previous years, the whole system was much looser. No one denies that. And since the rules have been tightened and it’s hard to find someone willing to be an ‘Official Agent’ — due to the legal ramifications — a number of people from all parties have been nipped with charges.

    It’s a settling out period not a “gotcha” period.

    I don’t know Del Mastro or his 2008 Official Agent — and have never met either — but I know a lawyer in another riding who freaked out when he saw the penalties, and quit. He told me that if he approved payments for a pizza party following a sign installation bee there was potential for him to go to jail, and seeing as how he had no say over said ‘pizza party’ or sign ‘bee’ he was bailing. He told me people from all parties would be hit and he was correct. I’ve examined all of the files in the public domain — from several parties — and all look like simple incompetence rather culpable transgression.

    • Seriously? del Mastro wrote a $21,000 personal check for political research and didn’t report it as election spending.

      If that’s true, the problem here is NOT that the laws are too complex. And this is NOT a gotcha. If that’s true, del Mastro deliberately broke the rules, deliberately tried to cover it up and deserves whatever consequences can be thrown at him.

    • Wow!!! And you tell me to read more? LOL Wow!
      No wonder you think pumping C02 that’s been locked far beneath the earth’s surface for billions of years into the atmosphere is good for the planet. You’re completely brain dead!! Please don’t tell anyone to read when you’re clearly an ignorant Con bot.

  18. What struck me about the encounter with Candice Cancade was how much I wouldn’t want to have to argue with that woman. She was pretty formidable in her use of the standard Conservative argument techniques. They’re much less effective outside the House of Commons though, as the logical flaws aren’t covered up by a crew of trained MPs hooting.

    JT picked Cancade’s attacks apart at his leisure. She gave him a chance to show Canadians what he’s made of, something none of his Liberal leadership opponents dared do. Next time a Conservative tries an on-air attack like this, he/she had better bring the cheering squad to shout JT down before he can respond.

    Kurt Vonnegut Jr. summed it up best in his story “Harrison Bergernon”: “Do not, under any circumstances, attempt to engage in debate with this man.”

  19. I just hope her daughter never babysat for Vic…

  20. marijuana should be legal

  21. BTW, Candice Cancade is connected to evangelical paster Chris Summerville, hired by Harper to push the “pot makes you crazy” lie.

    http://whyprohibition.ca/blogs/jacob-hunter/harper-appoints-evangelical-pastor-study-marijuana-and-schizophrenia

    If pot actually did cause schizophrenia (which is actually a consensus diagnosis from the DSM which essentially means ‘we don’t know what’s wrong with you’) then there would be a corresponding increase in schizophrenia with the increase in cannabis use over the last 50 years. There is none, of course.

  22. 16 year olds may experiment with marijuana, (legal or not) but, at least, when it is legal and regulated then they will be experimenting with clean, regulated and controlled marijuana, not marijuana possilbly laced with other drugs and with sky rocketing THC levels.

  23. The process is quite simple Legalize and tax, control the supply. Drive the gangs out by lowering the cost to a level they cant make money. The money saved by not chasing ghosts can be used for the final steps. Education and rehab. This needs to happen to all drugs, not just pot. The only utopian world I have seen is on TV. Ours is not perfect. I do not expect any law to be obeyed to the letter by all, Some will supply to teens and even children. This need to be dealt with by huge fines, jail time or if you allow your children to partake, both of the above apply along with the permanent removal of the child from the home by the courts. All drugs do a level of harm to our bodies. Including pot. I think in my 45 years experience with marijuana, hard drugs (teen years) and alcohol (quit 22 years ago) Pot is the least harmful. I still smoke pot late into my 50s. my education level is PHD and I also retired financially secure at 50.

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