Opposition to BC Carbon Tax grows!!!!


Support for BC government implementing carbon tax rises!!!!


Opposition to BC Carbon Tax grows!!!!

  1. Well exactly. And this is the rubber meets the road part when people are inclined to grumble.

    I suspect that when the dust settles on Dion’s announcement the federal scene will resemble the B.C. scene: mostly unchanged, with Dion getting a point or to for Cajones.

  2. Dion could use a few of those points, though.

  3. Of course the Liberals are still out in front in BC. Do you really think any voters wanting to pay less tax actually believe the NDP will help their bottom line? Voters are simply parking their support behind the lesser of two evils.

  4. I don’t think Dion can take all that much succor from what’s happening in BC. The BC Libs did not campaign on new green tax, they did what most parties do and kept quiet and raised taxes after election. Electorate are grumbling about new tax but also believe politicians are behaving like politicians.

    Dion, on the other hand, will be campaigning on a new tax. The next federal election might be all about Dion and his tax plan, which I think will be a disaster for Libs, because he is dire at communications and most of us are not looking to spend even more money on taxes at the moment.

    I also think bigcitylib is in a pollyannish mood this morning if he thinks Dion will go up in the polls when he finally makes the announcement. I don’t believe the citizens of BC represent the average Canadian, they are a bit wacky out there.

  5. … and that, of course, is the whole crux of the matter, and may be Dion’s downfall.

    Even if it’s a good idea and should be implemented, it’s not something to run a campaign on.

  6. I started reading the article and stopped once I realized that Ipsos Reid had done the poll.

  7. bigcitylib, Dion’s lack of cojones has already been demonstrated time and time again. His current course of action demonstrates a equal lack of cranial capacity and judgement.

  8. Wow, an ad hominem attack! Couldn’t see that coming.

  9. being a Victoria resident I have been watching this situation closely here and Ipsos Reid is being conservative in it’s numbers – carbon taxation is not the way to go and voters here are starting to wake up as we were lulled into numbness by things like revenue nuetral (give me a beak)and tax rebates and all the other nonsense you hear when a government legislates new ‘ Creative ‘ (Lord protect me from that word when a politicain uses it) taxes. PS: The gov’t here is not Liberal it is actually an new form of what used to be known as Social Credit – see the Premiers Bill and W.C. Bennet

  10. If you want to see convergence in action go to a BC Elementary school playground. They are all being ripped out by school boards for liability reasons and Parent groups are being expected to fundraise to replace them The prov Liberal promised funds to help out are ‘still coming.’ We go to a school that draws a large proportion of kids from a semi-rural/just past the edge of town area. We need to drive to pick up our kindergarten kids at lunch time.
    in a bit of elementary math, you get three guesses – What do we talk about ?

    See ya at the voting booth. Many of us will be coming back from curtailed vacations due to gas prices to an empty school yard.

  11. “Ipsos Reid is being conservative in it’s numbers ”

    Wayne, I think what you meant to say was that Ipsos Reid is being CPCish in its numbers, which would suit you, of course.

  12. There is no Carbon tax in BC yet – just the new tax law. Nobody is paying a carbon tax yet, nobody has any money out of pocket yet, nobody has stared at the gas pump while they get less for more – YET.

    Wait until people actually start paying it.
    Wait until the $100 eco-bribe is gone on the next fill-up. Wait until every gas station price board screams out at drivers the highest gas prices in Canada.

    Then do a poll on Gordo’s brainwave of a tax.

    Wayne @ 10:54 is bang on . . people are doing the slow, angry roast. They are pissed off.

    Time to spank Gordo – he’s getting a little big for his britches and his holier than us conversion on the road to Kyoto is not what he campaigned on and what people want from him.

    The tax kicks in 01 July, the $100 eco-bribe will be gone by month’s end at the latest.

    Watch the polls in August.

  13. FYI – first topic on the biggest talk radio program in BC – Bill Good


    click Listen Live at top

  14. There are many, many commuters in certain suburbs of Vancouver and the Fraser Valley who are furious with the government for this tax. They are already forced to pay 10 cents a litre extra to Translink in order to fund transit services that they cannot access to get to work, and now they will be forced to pay another 2.4 cents per litre, heading upwards of 7 cents eventually, to punish them for choosing the only method of transportation – their cars – that will get them to work. This tax may go over well in downtown Vancouver or Victoria, but it is going over like a lead balloon everywhere else. I, for one, will never vote NDP, but I’m not going to support anyone who imposes a carbon tax either. The BC Lib numbers are very, very soft and if there was ever a centre-right alternative that wasn’t laden with wingnuts trying to hijack it for their own narrow purposes they would be toast.

  15. Vaughan Palmer, who is usuallypretty spot on withhis analysis, emphasizes that ther has been no dip for the Liberals YET. He thinks it is inevitable.

    What does this mean, in my opinion? Soft ridings might switch over – some of the Northern/Vancouver Island that the NDP don’t already hold. As if any of the Valley ridings will turn over. Can anyone remember a time when the NDP has cracked 25% of the vote in Langley or Abbotsford? Maybe those Surrey ridings where the NDP already has some traction, or North Delta. But Carole James will be out beating the drums up north for the next year.

    And, the government did also announce a $20 Billion transit plan for the lower mainland – you know so that people DO have other alternatives. SkyTrain to Langley, commuter rail on the south side etc et.

  16. Those unhappy with the carbon tax won’t directly vote for the NDP. They will either stay home, or search for a viable alternative. It is the latter possibility that should concern the BC government. The BC Liberals have done very well in the last two elections in holding their coalition together. I have always wondered, though, what it might take for their right flank to become exposed. This might be it. You can bet that there are people in BC right now investigating the possibility of reviving a right wing, populist alternative to the BC Liberals. Depending on what they call it and who is running it, that is exactly the kind of vote-splitting effort that could cost the BC Liberals the election.

  17. The first IPCC projections of future climate were issued in 1990, and with more than 17 years of observations since that prediction we can confidently state that the IPCC’s 1990 “best guess” overstated the global temperature increase as well as sea level rise for the subsequent two decades. But such retrospective evaluations are typically dismissed because those predictions were made using outdated models based on earlier understandings. The IPCC issues predictions for 20-to 30-year periods into the future, and updates them every 6-7 years, so in practice its current predictive capabilities can never be evaluated against real world data. As Tebaldi and Knutti observe, “climate projections, decades or longer in the future by definition, cannot be validated directly through observed changes.”

  18. “You can bet that there are people in BC right now investigating the possibility of reviving a right wing, populist alternative to the BC Liberals. Depending on what they call it and who is running it…”

    How about calling members of this potential right-wing, populist offshoot The Zalmbies?

  19. Thanks for that, Big City Lib. Just when we had managed to forget that Bill Vander Zalm was actually Premier of BC for a while, you had to go and stir up those memories. Much appreciated. :-)

    For his first year or so in office, Vander Zalm actually did pretty well, and people started to wonder if maybe he might be OK after all. IIRC, things started to go off the rails in early 1988 when he decided to wade into the abortion debate. Then came the Expo lands debacle, and he never was able to recover.

    Vander Zalm was increasing spending at 15% a year at one stage, and never met a big government project he didn’t like. He fit the old Socred tradition well in that he was definitely more populist than anything else.

  20. I recently discovered a documentary which reveals the “global warming swindle” by government and environmentalists. Checking out the link below reveals the documentary from the UK, which explains how this global warming label came about and how the real scientists that were connected to the IPPC and have since resigned because the IPPC findings are not acturate. There is scientific data supporting the changes in the earths temperature today is nothing more than a natural state following the sun’s engergy and solar waves. The carbon dioxide emmissions are miniscule and in fact 1,000 years ago greenland was warmer than it is today, which did not resort to any disaster. In any event I think that this documentary should be spread around so there is at least a balance on the information surrounding global warming etc. I believe there is an abundance of misinformation out there that feeds government and environmentals agenda to the uninformed general population. I suspected there was more to this global warning propaganda and this documentary is very enlightening as it speaks with leading scientists on this subject.


  21. I wish we had a BC Conservative party (or some other party that wasn’t addicted to taxation) so we could boot the Liberals without having to elect the NDP.

    The carbon tax couldn’t come at a worse time if they tried.

    Tell you what, I’ll give back the $100 bribe if you agree to scrub this tax.

  22. Government intervention – not market forces – ended slavery centuries before market forces would have.

    Government intervention – not market forces – gave women the vote decades before market forces would have.

    Government intervention – not market forces – banned lead from childen’s toys, places restrictions on guns in this country, limits smoking in public places and has abolished capital punishment.

    Government intervention – not market forces – through regulation, could have prevented the collapse of the derivatives market in the US and the subsequent meltdown in the liquidity markets where hard working people have seen their investments, life savings and retirement funds eroded to the point where retirement may no longer be possible. “Market Forces”, even now through the unanimous admissions of the staunchest of US advocates of such, Greenspan, Levitt and Rubin, are what got us into this economic problem.

    It is the bravery and leadership of Government intervention – not market forces – that is needed to lead the way to radically changing social patterns and limiting, if not hopefully someday reversing, the devastating effects that global warming is having upon our province, country and planet. I agree with you that consumers needed to be given an incentive to change their behaviour. Unfortunately, we may not have the leisure or abundance of time to simply sit back and allow market forces to gradually determine the radically needed fundamental change in social patterns and attitudes. This is where government’s can, and must, provide leadership and act – and taxation policy is an excellent and responsible avenue to do so.

    I am so deeply disappointed and personally ashamed with Carole James’ continued public call to end the carbon tax. Perhaps she is indifferent on the issue of climate change and the heritage that our generation will leave for the next – and how many, perhaps limited, generations beyond that. Perhaps she is just desperately seeking to score political advantage. Perhaps it is the fundamental mechanics of the carbon tax that she cannot somehow comprehend. For somebody who seeks to become Premier of this Province however, I find that hard to believe – or perhaps just convenient perhaps. Please allow me to demonstrate for Carole how the carbon tax works in the most admittedly grossly, overly-simplified terms possible that will allow her to perhaps somehow grasp the concept. Please think in terms of a carbon tax of $5/litre – period. That’s it – that’s all. Yes, I said a $5/litre tax – revenue-neutral of course through offsetting tax policy (or dividend cheque – whatever) allowing you to do such things as install solar power or thermal power and other programs – or even put it back in your tank if you want or have to, the former making much more financial sense for most people though as the savings will be sustainable and perpetuating – and socially responsible. Just stop and think about that for a minute. What impact would that have on you personally? How would it change your thinking and your habits? I would suggest profoundly. Think about how patterns of transportation and human behavior would be profoundly altered with $6/litre gas. At its absolute broadest and most illustrative, that is how the carbon tax works Carole. Public transportation would be grossly advantageous. Needless miles driven would be eliminated. Electric vehicles would not only be viable but cheaper. Solar power would be financially feasible. Locally grown food would be much cheaper. And so on. Think on it for a while.

    We are living in a world where market forces have been long subsidized by cheap oil without the environmental cost ever being factored into that equation. Who knew? We eat cheap food from all over the world and think nothing of it as trucks clog our freeways and choke our skies to bring us cheap oranges from Florida, cheap bananas from Bolivia and cheap cameras and watches from China – only to throw them away after two years and then buy another because they broke and it is just cheaper to buy a new one. Market forces my ass. It is time that we begin to measure that environmental cost and factor it in. Simply allowing market forces to do so may take decades or centuries, if ever. And even then, there will always be some that will be unwilling to change and adapt, and will simply get a free, subsidized ride, the only cost being upon their conscience. Governments need to step in and take the lead – and act now.

    Carole James thinking unfortunately represent the same thinking as my father who got into a huge fight with me because he insisted on his plastic bag at the Home Depot to take home his box of screws – the same box of screws that he just spent 15 minutes carrying around the store but could not carry them another 30 seconds to the car – because that is the way he has always done it and it is simply “inconvenient” to change. Damned if he was going to change – not even one plastic bag could he sacrifice! People like that (and there are lots of them like my Dad and Carole James) will not change unless they are forced to. The assertion that this goes against personal freedom and market forces is the same thinking that Greenspan, Levitt and Rubin espoused a decade ago on US Derivatives that has landed us in the financial mess we find ourselves currently. To a man, they all admit now that they were wrong. When is your turn coming Carole – when we are spending our holidays basking on the warm, sandy beaches of the Beaufort Sea?

    Many assert that the Federal Liberals lost the election because of the carbon tax. I think that is just plain wrong – if not damaging and destructive for those seeking fundamental environmental change and political leadership. Speaking with family and friends who did not vote Liberal, most of the reason was that they are sick of the old boys, centralist, scandal plagued, self-entitled, left wing, Liberal cronies that are interested only in preserving power over serving their country. The carbon tax and the apparent sincere integrity of Stephane Dion seemed to be amongst the only reasons to consider putting an X beside a Liberal at the ballot box – but far from enough.

    The last person I read of so espousing the supposed myth of global warming and thus negating the call for needed change, was Michael Chernoff of the Chernoff Family Foundation – who spent their tax free dollars distributing the movie entitled “The Great Global Warming Swindle” to school children. What a noble cause to which to dedicate one’s life and establish one’s legacy. It turns out though that Mr. Chernoff was also a director of Encana, the largest oil and gas producer in Canada and, accordingly, owned 1,539,540 shares and 32,179 deferred share units in such. Accordingly, I wonder aloud what is in Carole James’ “political portfolio” that would so encourage her repeated calls for the elimination of the carbon tax – especially now with oil at $65/barrel.

    My wife says that we all have choices of either contributing to or contaminating society. Where does the BC NDP stand with their call to abort the carbon tax? My wife also says that sticking your head in the sand is a good way to get our collective asses kicked. My wife is a very smart person. The province, if not the world, is desperately looking for leadership at this critical juncture in our history. I sincerely hope we are blessed with the political leadership and the collective will to make the courageous changes and sacrifices needed ahead.

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