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Statistics if necessary, but not necessarily statistics


 

Rob Moore considers the slightly rising crime rate in New Brunswick.

“The data shows we still have a lot of room for improvement and, even more importantly, our justice system can do better.”


 

Statistics if necessary, but not necessarily statistics

  1. I don't really see a contradiction. He uses statistics for an argument, then says "it's easy to look at statistics." It is legitimate to argue that crime should be minimized as much as possible, even if it's already low. The same should go for poverty. I'm not saying conservatives don't misrepresent facts when it comes to crime, they certainly do, but I don't see Moore doing that in these quotes.

  2. I also don't understand the point being made in this post, if any. I see nothing inconsistent or particularly noteworthy in these comments.

    • You spend a lot time reading things that don't tell you anything, don't you?

  3. I'm not sure that the last paragraph qualifies as a "caveat". He's just saying that we should consider the human factor as well as the statistics. He's also saying that we should strive to do better regardless of whether crime rates trend down or up.

    • Indeed. The comparison didn't make much sense, so I deleted the latter part.

  4. I'm not sure that the last paragraph qualifies as a "caveat". He's just saying that we should consider the human factor as well as the statistics. He's also saying that we should strive to do better regardless of whether crime rates are trending down or up.

  5. This latest line of Conservative talking points is particularly well done and it is interesting where the Conservatives are going with the human factor. They are of course absolutely correct that victims of crime feel personally violated and are not going to be particularly appeased because the statistics say that crime is decreasing. As a result, it is pointless to argue when Harper, Moore or Nicholson give the pitch that we must do better because frankly they are absolutely correct.
    An obvious assumption would be that by "doing better" they are referring to policies to reduce the crime rate further. That has been the traditional argument, increase punishment to deter crime. The latest round has pretty much dropped the deterrent angle as the principle motivation and made the pitch more straightforward. It basically boils down to: criminals are bad so lets punish them.
    By taking out the deterrent argument, they sidestep having to prove the efficacy of mandatory sentences for example in reducing crime. However, if policy in this area is not oriented towards crime reduction what is the driving motivation? Likely it is to make victims (and perhaps by extension greater society) feel better by seeing the person responsible for the crime punished. (i for an i type of stuff)
    Logically, I have a hard time with the optimization of policy based on the public's emotional response and would like to see policies developed with clear objective goals. However, some years ago my daughter was a victim of a violet crime so I totally get the concept of making the bastard pay.

    • However, if policy in this area is not oriented towards crime reduction what is the driving motivation?

      I would suggest that the driving motivation is appealing/pandering to that segment of society that thinks criminals get off too lightly in our justice system. Almost everyone has heard stories about people guilty of egregious crimes that get off with a slap on the wrist; in particular, offenses against children, like for examplethis one

      And to Aaron, now that you've removed the distracting second paragraph from the post, I guess the redundancy in the MPs statement is mildly humourous.

    • However, if policy in this area is not oriented towards crime reduction what is the driving motivation?

      I would suggest that the driving motivation is appealing/pandering to that segment of society that thinks criminals get off too lightly in our justice system. Almost everyone has heard stories about people guilty of egregious crimes that get off with a slap on the wrist; in particular, offenses against children, like for example

      And to Aaron, now that you've removed the distracting second paragraph from the post, I guess the redundancy in the MPs statement is mildly humourous.

    • However, if policy in this area is not oriented towards crime reduction what is the driving motivation?

      I would suggest that the driving motivation is appealing/pandering to that segment of society that thinks criminals get off too lightly in our justice system. Almost everyone has heard stories about people guilty of egregious crimes that get off with a slap on the wrist; in particular, offenses against children, like for example this one

      And to Aaron, now that you've removed the distracting second paragraph from the post, I guess the redundancy in the MPs statement is mildly humourous.

    • We are "doing better." That's what the positive trend proves. Dehumanizing convicted criminals will not help their rehabilitation and scaring the crap out of people who have already been victimized, although it may win a few votes, would only reverse the trend. At least that's what the experts say, and they know this subject way more than you or I.

      BTW I am painfully aware of the victim experience. I am a domestic abuse and stalking survivor. To this day, the sound of a man yelling, and the ringing telephones and doorbells make my heart jump. Hope that helps you respect my opinion a bit more.

    • We are "doing better." That's what the positive trend proves. Dehumanizing convicted criminals will not help their rehabilitation and scaring the crap out of people who have already been victimized, although it may win a few votes, would only reverse the trend. At least that's what the experts say, and they know this subject way more than you or I.

      BTW I am painfully aware of the victim experience. I am a domestic abuse and stalking survivor. To this day, the sound of a man yelling, and the ringing of telephones and doorbells make my heart jump. Hope that helps you respect my opinion a bit more.

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