The female libido and ‘the two-year itch’

New books on female desire (or the lack of) argue the problem isn’t low libido—it’s monogamy

The Two Year Itch

Rainer Elstermann/Corbis

Isabel, a New York City lawyer, has a fiancé who appears a perfect catch. Eric is sensitive, smart, kind and handsome. He’s an attentive lover, the sort of man who, on Valentine’s Day, draws her a bath surrounded by candles and arranges rose petals into a heart shape on the bed. Isabel loves Eric, even though her passion for him dwindled months after they became involved. She misses her erotically charged relationship with her ex-boyfriend who, though not marriage material, made her feel desired, his “possession.” Still, Isabel tries to rev up her low libido for sex with Eric, buying massage oil and a blindfold—which also lets her pretend she’s with someone else.

Isabel’s story may read like an outline for the next wannabe 50 Shades of Grey franchise, but it’s actually one of several personal accounts punctuating journalist Daniel Bergner’s bold new book, What Do Women Want? Adventures in the Science of Female Desire. Bergner’s account of myth-shattering research into female sexuality arrives amid a publishing landslide on the topic, joining Bella Ellwood-Clayton’s Sex Drive: In Pursuit of Sexual Desire and Katherine Angel’s Unmastered: A Book on Desire, Most Difficult to Tell. Together they offer startling revelations about female desire—or rather its absence, a fevered debate of our time.

Low female libido—“hypoactive sexual desire disorder” as its been medicalized—has been the subject of hand-wringing for decades. It’s the Where’s Waldo?of scientific research, as drug companies desperately seek a “female Viagra.” There’s big money to be made: a 2005 study in the Canadian Medical Association Journal claimed between 35 and 40 per cent of women have low libido—which suggests “low” is in fact closer to “average.” Ellwood-Clayton spells out the problem in Sex Drive:“Once in a secure relationship, women’s sex drive begins to plummet,” she writes. The Canadian-born sexual anthropologist cites a German study that found that four years into a relationship, less than half of 30-year-old women wanted regular sex with their partners. After 20 years of marriage only 20 per cent of women did. Men’s libidos, on the other hand, remained pretty constant.

The issue, we’ve long thought, is that women just aren’t interested; female desire is simply weaker, and stoked by intimacy and familiarity. But scientists are now wondering whether commitment itself might be the problem. In other words, it’s not a libido deficit, it’s monogamy—an unspoken two-year itch. As Bergner puts it, the female drug we’re really seeking is “monogamy’s cure.”

Female desire is a relatively new field of research. Until the late 1970s, the male-dominated field of sexology focused on documenting male behaviour and performance. The more complex, discrete mechanisms of female lust were inconsequential. Anatomical drawings of female rats didn’t bother to include the clitoris, Bergner reports. Even today, a peep-show stigma remains attached to sexology in academe, particularly in the U.S., which is why many of the scientists he interviews are Canadian.

Psychologist Lori Brotto of the University of British Columbia cuts to the chase: “Sometimes I wonder whether [low female desire] isn’t so much about libido as it is about boredom,” she says. Ken Wallen, a psychologist and neuroendrocrinologist whose work at Emerson University outside Atlanta has revealed that female rhesus monkeys are the sexual aggressors, echoes the sentiment: “The idea that monogamy serves the natural sexuality of women may not be accurate,” he says. Bergner also cites an Australian study of women over age 40 that correlated low female desire to the length of time a woman had been with her partner, not hormonal changes. Once those women were with new partners, libido returned.

American psychologist Marta Meana routinely sees women whose white-hot lust for their partner has turned to ash. She theorizes that, within monogamy, women’s narcissistic need to feel desired is not being met: they feel their partners are trapped and that “a choice—the lust-propelled selection of her—was no longer being made.” One of the women interviewed in In What Do Woman Want?, Sophie, reveals how she compensates to summon lust for her husband: by fantasizing about being ravaged by Yankee shortstop Derek Jeter.

The “you complete me,” best-friends model held as the marital ideal and routinely joked about as a turn-off for men may actually be even more so for women, says Meana: “There has to be an ‘other’ for there to be sexiness.”

The idea that women might be ill-suited for monogamy flies in the face of entrenched thinking that women use sex to bond while men use intimacy for sex, as enshrined in the “intimacy-based sex-response cycle” pioneered by Rosemary Basson, a professor of psychiatry at UBC. It also upends the “parental investment theory,” the notion that men’s seemingly limitless reproductive capacity is why they fling seed far and wide, while women maximize limited reproductive resources by being choosy. Societies have long used the low-libido explanation to maintain order: it discourages female infidelity and has freed women’s energy to focus on home and children.

But that doesn’t jibe with the new thinking that a big part of what triggers female desire is to be desired. Some of this is conditioned: the idea that women—or “good” women—must be pursued and coaxed into sex. But women also expend a lot of energy on the hunt, Elwood-Clayton points out—much of that also focused on being desired. The stakes are even higher for women in the current hypersexualized culture, she writes: “Our desire to appear desirable exceeds desire itself.” Jim Pfaus, a Concordia University psychologist and neurobiologist, sees the double standard surrounding female sexuality rooted in fear: “We men are afraid that if we open the box, open her control, we’re opening ourselves to being cuckolded. We’re afraid of what’s inside.” A glimpse of the box’s contents was provided by Natalie Angier’s 1999 book Woman: An Intimate Geography, which describes the clitoris as the only organ designed purely for pleasure; it has 8,000 nerve fibres—twice the number in the penis. “Who needs a handgun when you’ve got a semiautomatic?” Angier writes.

At Queen’s University in Kingston, Ont., psychologist Meredith Chivers is working to expose the “animal truth” of female desire. Her research, which uses a plethysmograph, a miniature bulb and light sensor placed in the vagina, suggests women’s desire is as omnivorous as men’s; they’re equally aroused by a range of pornography and are far more responsive to stories involving strangers than long-time lovers. Yet when asked to rate their arousal, women downplay it, particularly when the stimuli aren’t socially acceptable.

Chivers’s findings suggest that women buy into the zipped-up model of their own sexuality. Yet as Katherine Angel makes clear in her sexual memoir, Unmastered, female desire is a tangle of complex, often contradictory impulses fed by the mind, the heart, the images we see, things we’ve read and been told. Angel, a post-doctoral fellow at the Centre for the History of Medicine at Warwick University, writes of processing her first erotic impulses: “The words I would have put this into, had I felt the urge—the words I still put this into—are these: ‘I feel like a man.’ ” She understood, even then, that as a woman she had to tamp those impulses down.

Fittingly, Angel’s lyrical, explicit meditation on her own desire, a “ferocious and vulnerable” thing, defies traditional narrative structure. She weaves trenchant social observation throughout the book, exploring seeming contradictions like being a feminist who enjoys sexual submission. She calls porn “misogynistic, coercive, tacky,” but, like Chivers’s subjects, can be turned on by it: “I imagine sex with her—or is it me?—through his eyes. I see myself as he might. I allow myself desire for her through my desire for him.” Awareness of her capacity for pleasure feeds her desire, she writes.

Pfaus believes the new spotlight on female sexuality will make way for a revolution among women in the next generation: “We’re going to see more supposedly male-like behaviour, more women picking up men, more women getting laid and leaving, having sex without wanting to bond, more girls up in their rooms clicking on their computer and masturbating before they get started on their homework.” It’s a tableaux destined to horrify many. But, paradoxically, it could also pave the way to more aware, realistic marital expectations—and that includes new ways of scratching the two-year itch.




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The female libido and ‘the two-year itch’

  1. Seems bizarre that the that pervasiveness of bisexuality wouldn’t be brought up in a discussion of female sexuality and all its complexities. How much research actually went into these studies? Sort of renders this article out-of-touch with reality.

    • Articles don’t have to talk about everything related to their subject matter to be in-touch. That’s a ridiculous assumption. It’s an article, not a PhD thesis.

      • Actually a PhD thesis tends to focus very tightly on the subject matter at hand. That’s kind of the point.
        It’s an article not an anthology might have been more appropo

    • IOW you would get off with a stranger of either gender and want us to approve of it. Thanks for nothing.

      • Hey whatever flicks your switch, is what I say as long as it’s absolutely consensual and done in the privacy of your own place.. Your approval means nothing and why should you think that anyone else really cares whether you approve or not?
        smacks of arrogance to me.

  2. I love these.

    Post a theory in the headline to get everyone to click, have a big discussion, note that every woman is ultimately different, and state some facts that every socially aware human knows.

    Macleans has turned into the Daily Mail so slowly, I didn’t even notice.

  3. One word.

    Feminism. It ruined EVERYTHING.

    • Over react much.
      Feminism is the reason women can vote, work and are on the road to becoming equal citizens in their own country….

      Oh you meant the caricature of feminism that you created so you could disapprove of it, why didn’t you say so?

      • This comment was deleted.

      • nagh hes right feminism ruined everything…women don’t really wanna contribute to society in the same progressive way men do. don’t believe me? check out seekingarrangement.com, feminism is dying in the current generation.

        • no he’s not and a requirement for equality never goes away

          • I’m just going to leave this here for you to read…

            http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/12/magazine/12sugardaddies-t.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&

            “A surprising number of babies say on the blog that they don’t need the
            money at all, either because they have decent-paying jobs or bottomless
            credit cards from their parents. What appeals to them about the
            arrangements are the expensive gifts — “I just LOVE being spoiled,”
            gushed one 19-year-old woman on the blog”

            equality right? When you allow yourself to be used as property that is clearly how you view yourself…The world is divided into masters and slaves, tops and bottoms, men and women. We are not all the same and American society/social scientists have been trying to brainwash us into thinking snow is black for too long. Now mind you I’m not saying women should be chained up in the cellar only to be used for procreation and sandwich making. Far from it, but lets be honest most women want to be taken care of by someone above them, man or woman it sounds like most don’t even seem to care about the gender of their pseudo parent if you read their profiles. And why wouldn’t/shouldn’t they? Sure some women want to be more than this and they should be free to have that choice(yes I understand this to be a tenant of feminism) but lets also be honest somehow that choice message gets lost and all that remains is the insistence that women need to go to college and get a job and compete with men on every level, and true equality will not be achieved until then, as if it were even ever possible or desired by either sex anyway.

            But yea feminism is declining about as fast as the Caucasian female motherhood rates(no surprise there). Sorry to burst your bubble but next generation of latinas/ asian female/ african american women are just a bit more pragmatic.

          • Men and women are equal in worth, but not in function.

          • There is a difference between innate biological functions and societal functions. One is something you can do nothing about, the other has been constructed by those who have the power in society.

          • They are different sociologically too.

          • Those who “have power in society”, as if male Caucasian interests were ever really the guiding interests of our society. I agree with you that “those who have power in society” are construction the societal functions. What you don’t realize is that they constructed feminism too.

          • Seriously?
            Religion, colonisation, empires etc nothing to do with Caucasian male interests and power.
            It’s not even worth bothering if you are going to be that silly.

          • Your opinions clearly paint you as a product of the narrow minded American view of history. Perhaps you should pay more attention to the world and realize that the supposed “Caucasian” sphere of influence has paled in size to both those of Asia and the Middle East and only been as influential a factor as it has been recently for a very short time span in the history of the globe. The main outcome of feminism has been the rapid and continued decline of the social bonds holding Caucasian society together in America. As i said before however, as soon as Caucasian women breed themselves out of existence there won’t be anyone left to believe that malarchy.

          • Yep, but unfortunately we all suffer, even women.

          • Clearly your interpretations of my background are not as good as you think they are.

            So the alternative to avoid having that malarkey around is to get rid of that malarkey by reverting back to the old ways. Sounds like a damned if you do and damned if you don’t situation you are positing there. If Caucasian women are going to be dumped on it appears that you think they should let Caucasian men do it.
            An oddly racist tone to your misogynistic argument or a misogynistic tone to your racism.. I’m not sure which.

          • I don’t think anyone genuinely thinks we haven’t made some progress in some areas and gone backwards in others. No one, as far as I can tell, is arguing to ‘go back to the way it was before.’ I can tell you one thing though, men and women used to work together instead of against each other, because they accepted and embraced their differences, and it made the West the strongest and freest organization of society in the history of mankind. It’s these differences that cause attraction in the first place, and it’s no wonder at all to me why women don’t want to screw feminine men nowadays.

            I think to move forward we need to take what is obviously good and discard what is obviously bad, but we need consensus and no more mindless blatherings about the patriarchy and male priveledge. As soon as you talk feminist lingo, you send most people running for the hills.

          • I work with women everyday of my life and they have never appeared to work against me or any other men on dogmatic grounds like you suggest. They present opinions from different perspectives and some step forward and prove themselves to be very adept and successful leaders. Some are happier being team players and have no pretensions in the area of leadership; kind of like a lot of guys I work with.
            When we are at work, we are at work and are very task oriented and it seems to pay off – we’ve been a quite successful group for a few years now.
            Treating folk as an important part of the team regardless of their child rearing ability is not only the correct way to go it appears to work.

          • I’m not talking about the workplace. I’m talking about human relationships.

          • And human relationships aren’t a big part of the workplace?

          • Not really. It’s mostly the structure of the company and the incentives involved that determine human behavior in the workplace. By and large people aren’t themselves at work. They conform to expectations on them or they don’t get paid.

          • maybe you’ve worked in some very strange places. Inter personal relations can kill or build a company.

          • In theory. In practice it’s all about the bottom line.

            It also depends on the company, but most companies it doesn’t matter one bit how people REALLY act towards each other, but how they pretend to act.

          • The real problem here is that you fail to realize that women are not better off today than they were before feminism. Caucasian women are the biggest victims of feminism. The proof you ask? Allow me to quote one of the most enlightened thinkers of the modern age. “The natural order tells us that the weak die and are eaten” I’ll remind you again of the declining Caucasian birth rates….Feminism should be re-branded as the most effective tool for self sterilization of an unwitting population segment.

          • Your quote is dated. (Was it Rousseau or Henry Goose in Cloud Atlas that you were attempting to cite?)

            The weak do not die anymore in the numbers that they used to. Modern medicine, engineering, science etc has increased longevity, cured diseases,created artificial aides and made all sorts of advances that ensure the weak survive and contribute as pretty full members of society. You might as well blame all those disciplines for failing to respect your natural order as you do feminism.

          • LOL seriously?
            harebell > Bulldyker 2 hours ago
            Don’t even go there.
            It’s
            funny how the “natural” order is used by sad individuals to back up
            their assertions when it suits but not when it doesn’t. The natural
            order tells us that the weak die and are eaten. Civilization has kind of
            made that a big no-no.

            I’m attempting to point out to you how the feminist movement has effectively dismantled the Caucasian nuclear family will ultimately lead to its extinction. While other ethnicities not so taken with that malarchy are flourishing.

          • jeez not exactly swift are you?
            So you’d like to treat women in the West as they do in the third world because it’s part of some racial war. The fact that a lot of women in those other places are treated abominably doesn’t matter. It’s all about the numbers.
            An appeal to the popularity of a particular practice is another logical fallacy

          • nice way to skirt the issue. As I’ve said before no one is advocating treating women without respect. But encouraging them to take on characteristics and qualities of another gender is not the answer and only leads to more conflict. In any case it doesn’t matter history will prove me right in 50 years when all the women in America are black, brown, or yellow (not racist observation but a factual one) and their occupation is homemakers or nurses. And yes I conceded there will be some exceptions to the rule but far fewer than we see today.

      • Nope, I mean feminism. Feminism destroyed the polarity of the sexes. Women became more like men and men became more like women. And as a result, this is why women complain that ‘there’s no real men anymore.’ Well, obviously they’re right. But that entails there being real women.

        • I’ve never heard that complaint and I’ve no idea how you define real in either case.

          • Masculine men and feminine women. Are you playing dumb, like all radical feminists do?

          • I’m not a radical feminist. Disagreeing with a MRA doesn’t make me a radical. What the hell is a masculine man or a feminine woman. If we are going to have a discussion I have to know what you think is truly masculine/feminine behaviour so I can see if you are full of it.

          • Real being defined by the natural order of things, you can dance around and point out outliers and demand that the definitions of male and female be blurred and over lapped all you like but the reality is that nature has a yin and a yang for a reason.

          • Don’t even go there.
            It’s funny how the “natural” order is used by sad individuals to back up their assertions when it suits but not when it doesn’t. The natural order tells us that the weak die and are eaten. Civilisation has kind of made that a big no-no.

          • Its funny how sad individuals inferior individual resort to attacking their debate opponents by defaming their character. If there was no natural order and differences between the sexes we’d all be asexual androgynous like you and the way you want us all to be. There is nothing wrong with being different, if women just celebrated their differences rather than complaining about them and demanding all the pros of male and female treatment by society without any of the cons the natural order would be restored and society would be back in balance.

          • Bingo.

          • Hah

            love the self defeating argument. “to attacking their debate opponents by defaming their character.” followed by “asexual androgynous like you”

            How did I defame your character? I just pointed out that your appeal to the “natural” order was fraught with problems.

          • It;s not though. It’s evolution, babay!!!

          • Would be except for the artificial protections that civilisation and society have brought humanity. To a large part climate isn’t the selection factor it once was,

          • Are they artificial? They’re extensions of altruism which: SURPRISE SURPRISE, EVOLVED.

          • Indeed they did but they have also had the paradoxical effect of restricting evolution in other areas involving human affairs.
            Also BD’s idea of the natural order is still highly questionable

          • I don’t agree. I think he is right on the money. Mankind playing GOD is the core of all of our problems, and the mere act of building societies is one of the major ones.

            But if we’re going to build them, we should follow the natural order as closely as possible. That includes not messing with endocrinology, reproduction, or gender roles.

          • You’re free to leave society anytime you want.

          • Being the staunch feminist you are I’m surprised you’re bothered by likining you to the sexually androgynous.

          • Oh so you are offended by being called ‘androgynous’ which means you do value gender polarity and can no longer use ignorance of it in your arguments. Cool.

          • In many ways I have. Why would I chain myself to a sinking ship?

    • This comment was deleted.

      • That’s what feminism ultimately is. If a movement is about human rights, it will be humanist. By definition feminism is about special rights for females.

  4. I can totally see this being the reality – men being afraid of being cuckolded (which does happen with some wild animal species), and so they socially suppress women and convince them it’s better to stick with one male. I mean, I can’t blame the men, they are biologically driven to be that way. Genetically speaking I think it would make more sense to practice serial monogamy. Socially speaking I don’t know if we’re completely ready for that yet.

    But what does that mean for the women with low libido that actually want to stay with their long term partners and revive that libido with them? Not everyone has to be monogamous, but some people actually enjoy it. More options are better.

    • I’ve dated low libido women for 29 years now, I am attentive, have money, have a zeal and lust for life. You can’t fix these women, the most I’ve EVER gotten that seemed like good info was therapy, and all they realize there is that THEY (the woman) has to change, once they realize that, they don’t want to go back and you really begin to realize that it’s pointless.

      Low libido = low libido – It’s not like she’s going to wake up one morning and magically declare “Now I want to sleep with you again finally!!!!” LMAO, ya right.

    • Women trade sex for partnership, and once they achieve it, they cut the sex off. This has been my and 100% of my male friends of all varying attractiveness and success experience. I’m sure there are exceptions, but on a long enough timeline, every woman’s libido drops to zero.

      • Ditto. When I (a man) got married I thought I had achieved a situation of regular occurrence. I was so incredibly naive.

  5. This comment was deleted.

    • I’m not sure your first statement is based in reality; but that said I do know that for millenia before the last 40 years, lecherous old men forced women to be married to other lecherous old men and treated them as chattel. They forced them to remain as little more than means to an end, using many pseudo scientific theories that were designed to fit around the existing paradigm that constituted male dominated society. White. male, heterosexual, christian society at that.
      You do realise that science and pseudo science are two different things and that time and verification tends to work out which is which if faulty methodology isn’t immediately apparent.

      The greatest piece of social experimentation has been ongoing since man first stood upright tens of thousands of years ago and claimed some deity told him that man was to be dominant. Happily things are changing.

      • Actually the main theory is that it was women invented marriage, or at least the social concept that led to marriage. As it was benificial to have a mate aid a woman during gestation and child development, both of which are very long in humans and do require a lot of energy. Interestingly monogomy/marriage equivalents (NOT THE SAME THING) has also been found in matriarcal cultures (if I can remember 1st yr anthro). your out look on marriage is only true of a historical eurasian point of view which dominates our understanding of the concept, but we must remember that it is not how it must be. Of course this is a seperate issue from arousal.

        • Whipping stuff out of your butt does not a theory make.
          That’s like saying slaves invented slavery as it was beneficial to have a powerful master to look after you.

      • Sorry, but in modern Western society it was never ok to force someone to marry. Stop convoluting reality to appease your feelings.

        There might have been social pressure on women, but as recent history shows without that social pressure they turn into entitled, selfish, ahem, bitches who use sex as a weapon.

        Females have all the sexual control, always have and always will. That is the reason they were pressured socially, because under it all everyone knows that absolute power corrupts absolutely.

        • Just be cause you say it doesn’t make it so.
          Millenia of being chattel is an undeniable fact, yet all you focus on is the post feminist era, how convenient.
          Oh and you wonder why women are turned off by you, calling them bitches when they disagree with you might have something to do with it.

          • I could say the same for your comments, except that all of your radical feminist propaganda has been thoroughly debunked.

            The reality is that women had the gravy train for millenium. Stay at home, cook a few meals, look after the children, have sex with your husband and enjoy mountains of leisure time and access to his wealth.

            With feminism, they were convinced through emotional appeal to become the same downtrodden wage slaves that men have always been, EXCEPT they are exempt from the draft, they have all access to sex, and they still expect men to pay for the date.

            Women by and large aren’t happy or horny, and they have feminism to thank.

          • It’s hardly any surprise women are turned off by you, you have a strangely simplistic idea of history and feminism, not to mention how women behave. The only time in my experience that a woman hasn’t paid on a date or even at a function is when I invited her out as my treat.
            AS for the draft, I assume you are talking about the US military, because Norway already does draft women. Maybe if US male soldiers treated the female regulars as colleagues rather than targets for their aggression there would be no problem. Maybe if the male hierarchy of the US armed services stopped blaming the victims of the aggression and hushing it up there would be no problem. Ah but it’s feminism’s fault hey, not the rapists and their enablers, hey?

          • Women aren’t attracted to feminist men. They’re attracted to masculine men and masculine attributes, of which superior intelligence is one.

            And women aren’t turned off by me, I’ve actually had decent sexual success in my life, by beautiful women (though not as much as some and not as much as I’d want). I’m certain that my lack of acceptance of feminism is actually a reason for this success.

            The reason men treat women differently in the military is because we KNOW they can’t defend each other or us as well as a man can. THEY ARE A LIABILITY. In war, I would take a man next to me over a woman any day of the week, and 99% of all men will agree with me. There might be exceptions, but in general it’s true, no matter how many socialist, effeminate scandinavian countries who haven’t fought a war in 400 years say differently.

          • Ah your true nature comes through.

            If women truly loved bad boys who treated them like crap you’d be fine,,, but they don’t do they.
            Anybody holding a weapon in a war is an asset only a dogmatic bigot would say otherwise.

          • Wrong. And it’s extremely obvious you’ve never been in one.

  6. In an earlier comment, John Morrey says “feminism ruined everything.” That’s almost right. But actually, feminism was good, is good; it is only *radical* feminism that denies the very real differences between males and females, downplays everything from dresses to makeup to hosiery, rejects the male instinct to protect them, causes women to drag around in sandals and pants… that’s the culprit, right there. When gender roles in the sexual arena become subdued or even eliminated, we’re beyond the legitimate issues of equality of opportunity and deep into the destruction of the natural, beneficial cues that drive our urges to select a partner that stimulates us.

    Sexuality in long term relationships needs nurturing. It needs constant renewal of a sense of mystery; it can’t be too easily had; distraction (childbearing, working, family infighting) can easily wreck the delicate balance of tease and desire and consumation. Failure to address foreplay, even failure to do your part in the household can put a real hurt on desire. Two years to lose desire? Someone isn’t doing everything they can. Probably everyone involved, frankly.

  7. This comment was deleted.

    • You sound like a very sad and lonely person.
      A partnership is just that, two equals coming together to create something new. Your angry tones and knee jerk absolutism of response indicates that give and take are not in your personality and you’d probably make a very poor life mate. So good decision, I hear there are still monasteries that are accepting newcomers.

      • Or try this: I’m a very successful and well rounded individual, have never cheated on a partner, have never created outstanding debts with a partner, have never hit or even said harsh words to a partner. I give and give, yet for some reason, every woman I’ve ever dated (and I’ve dated all types and ages btw so don’t even try to project your own issues onto me…) and guess what? They do this SAME THING every time.
        Dating first year – sex is good, relationship is good, open communication
        Dating second year – sex is lagging, relationship is good, open communication
        Dating third year – Sex is non existent, relationship is good in ALL other aspects, still open communication (meaning we openly discussed the lack of sex, sought therapy, looked for other options for her to feel more comfortable about the subject and how to address it, therapy for her alone, to address if she even needs sex like I do, or if this is just who she naturally is, etc etc etc)
        Usually after this, when they realize they are not going to change, for me or anyone else, they cheat on me. I’ve had this EXACT scenario happen to me three times, and countless women have done similar in lesser time frames, relationships that ended before they went too far, but same results.
        I have this theory that women are with men, the way men are with toys, aka, once the “new car smell” wears off, it goes to the back burner priority wise. Three years into a relationship I still send flowers, gifts, take on dates, pay, do EVERYTHING a gentlemen is supposed to, and I get shyt on.
        Now I know already that your response will be “you haven’t dated enough, you keep choosing bad partners, etc” That may be true to an extent, but I’ve dated I’d guess, 30 women in my 29 years since I began dating and I’ve once again, Never cheated, or done anything that people would consider “bad” to a woman, EVER! Yet, 30 women all cheated on me, lied to me, and then denied me sex eventually, it never fails.
        I’ve also been studying marriage statistics for a few years now, SLC has released several updated for 2013 stats on divorces. Upwards of 70% are due to female low libido, and or FEMALE cheating. Less than 10% of ALL US marriages end due to a MALE doing EITHER of those things.
        Food for thought, it’s the female sex, they can’t help it, even geneticists have begun to recognize that part of our evolution is that women must procreate with as many top notch sperm donors as possible, and that’s how ALL of our ancestors did it, regardless of Cuckolding when the Alpha male was out hunting or w/e, the fact is, women have always been this way. And MEN do it too, but we have some genetic differences, aka, we like to as one person commented, have the control over our mates, probably due to our body strength and the fact that we just “could” and so it became normal.
        Point is, science, and stats, both prove that women are shitty monogamists, and they are much better at multi-tasking wieners so as to not get bored, so simple.

        • the man makes a compelling argument

          • he’s a persistent bugger that’s for sure

        • 1: Maybe you’ve dated too much and not thought longer term.

          2: If you do something 30 times with the same outcomes and keep expecting different results, that is a definition of insanity.

          3: After relationships with 30 different women with the same outcome, do you not think the problem might lie with you?

          4: science has proved nothing of the sort.

          • I said that I had dated 3 women for 3 years, the other 20 something were for lesser periods of time. You can refer to my original post to clearly digest this information again.

            I have, many times, every woman I’m with says that I am one of the best men they had ever met, many of them still try to re-attain me, but I can’t do it, the feelings gone. I have had several therapists, religious, and by the book, and they all told me after very few sessions that I was a sound, level-headed individual, that I had some shortcomings, just minor character flaws and attitude problems generally.

            And the more men I meet and befriend, as I get older, I hear similar stories from them (mind you most of my friends are very similar to me in intelligence, education, morality, etc. I don’t waste time on people that cheat, lie, abuse drugs, etc.) and we have often discussed the idea that it’s a cultural phenomenon. Very similar to the “Disney princess” complex that is so common in young women now.

            Science has in fact proven that neither the male nor female sexes are “genetically” prejudiced towards monogamy, however, due to social evolution and tribal societies it became warranted, and then later favored, in large social groups. Neither group is terribly good at remaining 100% monogamous, however, studies have proven conclusively, alongside marriage statistics that women grieve for shorter periods of time, admit infidelity more often, and generally don’t score as well in science and mathematics. That’s not me being sexist, that’s just the stats, based on the social group being produced by the parents raising them…

          • Jeez man. Listen to yourself.

            Therapists, religious con men? Seriously?

            You talk about yourself like you’re a robot. This whole exchange sounds like a Turing test or a session with Sheldon Cooper.

            The very fact you are so sure it isn’t you and it’s the women you date’s fault means you aren’t going to get anywhere. It’s failing to face up to reality, rules are for software not people. If that weren’t the case there’d be no religion and no need for laws.

          • Jeremy, you have hit the nail on the head.

          • Jeremy, I’m 100% with you on this. I have the same thoughts and arguments, experiences of my own and friend’s experiences. And they all sum up to form my own view on female behaviour that is pretty much like yours as well. And I’m from latin america, so culture aside, it is an issue on genetics level, indeed. All I can say is that you are correct. And for every woman that you try expressing this ideas, they will play the “I-am-an-exception” game, so to drive you nuts and force you to continue on the search for the never coming stable relationship. But once the relationship is confirmed ,a woman will look for external revalidation, because it is inside them, this need to express their values that only comes from outside validation (aka narcisistic-vanity-unfulfilling-vices). Don’t believe me? Do your research on “Hypergamy” to find out. As for men, we value ourselves on our own achievements, we don’t need to chase a woman for status, we chase them for sex, whereas they have plenty of sex options available, so it is natural to be picky! I kind of agree with them once I understand that. So I’m not blaming anyone here, I being very realistic. So don’t ever let them take you for granted on your next relationships, because you either chase or let yourself be chased, there is no balance. Never lose another one, stay strong, and cool, just be happy, and don’t listen to women, because they won’t admit that they want a man that controls them as well. But they do. Bye.

          • Sorry, type-o, I meant “religious and non-religious” meaning I tried both the spiritual approach to problem solving, and purely psychiatric approach. None of the counselors, ever, thought the problem was me, even after having met with my significant other (which let’s be honest, 50% of women flat out refuse to even think about therapy) they still agreed that it was their issue, not mine. (and yes, the 2-3 times that I EVER was able to convince a woman to come to therapy with me, to talk about their issues, or to try to resolve any of their compulsory behavior, they, and I, were both blatantly honest with the counselor((This includes me telling the therapist how often I masturbated, how frequently she rejected me, etc etc)) Thanks and good night

            ** Also, I no longer chase women like I once did, since I’ve focused more on my career, and less on tang, I’ve accomplished a LOT more than I ever did before. And the women I do meet, are generally on the same playing field, meaning we can actually have stimulating conversations etc, the funny thing is, most of them are as adamantly against committed relationships as I am, I sometimes think it’s a logical decision that intelligent people are forced to make once they realize that the vast majority the mating pool is utter garbage.

          • Ya know, I think he might be on to something. I know this scenario, has played out with both my brothers’ first wives. And it has happened to me personally. I was dating this girl, and she said I was an amazing guy, good sex, treated her well, but she still had sex with another guy. What the hell? This is too common to be a coincidence. Not saying all women cheat, but once they have the man they want, their lust dies…for most anyway.

          • Yep. If you want to maintain a relationship with a woman, you have to play games and let on that they NEVER have you. If they know they have you, they lose all interest almost immediately.

            For those of us who don’t really want to play games, but want to have a mature, open and honest relationship? Hmmm. I guess we’re screwed to repeat the same cycle over and over again.

        • Maybe you need to get better at “sex”.

          • I am not tooting my own horn, but I’ve never had an unsatisfied partner in that category, I’ve helped several women squirt that had no idea they could : ) Generally when we are finished, my partner is sprawled across the bed, gulping for air, and smiling at me wickedly… but if I were bad at sex, I’d admit it, and be fully willing to accept responsibility for my shortcomings.
            It’s just another “perk” of beign raised by a single mother, she made it very clear to both my brother and I that all women are princesses and you ALWAYS make sure they get what they want before you finish. (obviously my mom was not indoctrinating us with this blatantly, it was subtle, ie, during a movie or show when a man was very gentlemanly and made his lady happy, she would say things like “that’s how you treat a woman!” or “remember to always make your girl happy first!” it’s basically in my DNA, if I rushed in, made a sticky, and she was not even warmed up, I’d feel terrible, trust me, I make women VERY happy in the sack : )

          • Hahaha you have this point of view but you’ve never been turned down for sex? You’re either inexperienced or an extreme outlier.

          • I’ve been turned down for sex many, many, many in fact, TOO many times, (if you had read ANY of my posts you would not have posted this lackluster and completely unnecessary comment…) in fact, if I remember right, that’s what most of us posting on this page are discussing….

            But continue on there buddy,

          • Oh sorry, I thought you were implying that pandering and pedestalling women was the way to never be denied. My bad. It’s obvious you know otherwise. :)

            It doesn’t really matter how good we are in bed. In fact, my girlfriends libidos always went up when I was completely selfish about sex. Go figure.

          • I’ve tried that, but, they don’t put up with it, in fact the LAST time I was cheated on, was after a 3 month dry spell, I straight up told her, “you aren’t getting any until you figure out why we just went 3 months without making love a single time..” The next weekend she had a “girls” night so she could go “talk” with her friends, and try to discover why she continues to do this cycle, she got really drunk, ended up sleeping with a guy I went to elementary school with.. So disgusting… Then she apologizes, and says that she won’t do it again, so I dumped her, and she acted like it was my fault for her cheating because I had turned her down ONE FCKING time!!! This girl was 26 years old, and in college, working on a degree in (you’ll never believe this) CHILD PSYCHOLOGY. I mean, even the intelligent women, that are in the FIELD they themselves struggle with, seem to do this behavior.

            A buddy and I did an experiment on facebook one time, we found the vast majority of our hold HS senior class, and sent each of them a short questionnaire, asking how many times they had been married since HS, if they were still married, and if they weren’t, why had it ended, or, why they were not pursuing marriage. We got something like 70% response rate, which was pretty cool, and the stats were surprising.

            Women – 85% had been married, 50% of them had already been divorced 2 or more times. Most of them said they got divorced because their husband was not providing the quality of life they had been promised, only 5 girls out of nearly a thousand, said they got divorced due to their husband cheating. 5!

            Men – Less than 25% of my HS buds have gotten married, most of them said they can’t find trustworthy partners, the other smaller chunk said they just weren’t ready for a committed and preferred open relationships. OUt of the 130 guys that did get married, 72 were still married, the others had gotten divorces due to 3 reasons, lack of sex, lack of connection, and wifes infidelity.

            Now there may be some rare outlandish people in thos enumbers, that don’t refeclt the overall group, but just read the numbers, it’s more than enough to tell me that something is up, and it’s not us guys. It’s the greedy “I want it all plus that guy over theres cock” mentality of women.

          • Ya I’m not interested and I’m not an alpha male. I have to figure out what to do with my libido, but otherwise women can go fuck themselves. The only way to win that game is to not play.

          • Then maybe you need to pull back a bit. Is easy to go about just trying to please people, but you need to make your affection and attention a commodity. It will be perceived to have no value. Also you dont want to come across as needy. Also, way tooooo graphic dude.

          • If you’re a child, maybe it’s graphic, to most of us that are adults this is just non PC talking… Anyways, I’ve seen therapists that discussed these ideas with me, after trying different methods (don’t have sex until emotional feelings are established ((supposedly the KEY TRICK in many circles to long lasting sexual relationships)) didn’t work, same result. I’ve tried being the “bad” boy, aka, not returning their calls immediately, not calling them back every single time, doesn’t work. I almost think it’s a Pheromone effect, lol, as if these women can smell the level of “nice guy” that you are. In short, I have one personality, and it’s real and my own, and I happen to care about people, I love my family, I still take my mama to dinner a few times a year, I mean, I’m the all American straight edge money earner, but this isn’t enough for these women, and I look around at the girls that are in relationships, and they are with men that hit them, lie to them, cheat on them, scream at them, leave them frequently, YET THEY STAY, for YEARS, it’s insane.
            I’ve tried modifying my personality to better suit the needs and desires of modern women, but I decided not to, I much prefer myself for who I am, and 99% of people that I meet feel the same way about me, so I know it is them, not me. And like I said, therapists have met with my partner and I and had very extensive conversations about everything from inter-personal issues, to childhood drama, to our adult issues including loss of sex drive, not only have several therapists and sex therapists told me that this is pretty common in women (as the article suggests) but that most of the marriage counseling / divorce counseling that they had done was over this very same reason.
            I do believe it’s a cultural phenomenon, life is just so easy now that people can’t even be happy doing simple enjoyable things, not to mention all the politically correct speech has made talking about sex something for only perverts and weird old men, great, even the past time of boys discussing sex is frowned upon by this new crowd of women, and don’t even get me started on how for some reason, suddenly, all women everywhere feel that pornography is degrading to THEMSELVES directly even though they don’t participate in it and they shame men everywhere for viewing it, it’s utter garbage ,it’s tired, and it needs to end.
            The men of this world are begging you ladies, get off the high horse, you’re just as messed up and imperfect as we are, start acting like equals, or we’re all just gonna kill ourselves, what’s the point to life if the ONE thing you’re supposed to do as a human has now become a freaking game, relationships 2.0, WELCOME!!! Enjoy the non sexual PC safe zone where every man with lust is a rapist and all women can be marine corps!!!

          • I’m a child?
            First and foremost, I will not be killing myself regardless of what women behave like. You guys can go ahead with out me. I’m not trying to put you down dude, Humans not just women need challenges. It’s not about acting like a bad guy or buying a harley. Smiles all the time are boring. 99% of people agree with your own self assessment?. sweet! you are doing better than most! Also why aren’t any of them fucking your brains out for 2 years +? some girls like to be spanked some dont lets’s not make these broad generalizations. However the creature the Human beings are need to be challenged they have an urge to conquer. thats why a new car is awesome…. for a while then you obsess about something else. You want your woman to want you beyond two years…… easy… make other woman desire you even for just an instant, she’ll defend her turf with ferocity! (applies to any gender)

          • Courtship is a game. And anyone with any heart at ALL does not want to play games.

            It’s a reflection of the absurdity of life.

          • The killing yourself bit was a joke, obviously, I hope you realize I was not serious. And my personality that tactic does not work, all the women I’ve been with were never threatened by other women, because deep down they know I would NEVER betray them, even if the relationship was sexless. I’m really proud of the fact that I’ve never cheated on anyone, and I think most women can realize these things about a person. I truly believe that most women manipulate me because they know I won’t treat them like dirt. And even when I try to treat them like dirt, an ignored phone call, or a dissatisfied conversation is the worst they will get, and they know this. I also tried once to play the “bad boy” part from day one, they could tell it wasn’t me, that I was just trying to act like a tough guy, it’s just not in me. I can fight, and I can win, against most people, if pushed to it. But just being a jerk to get what I want, I can’t seem to do it, I’m too empathetic.

          • I know it was joke, I just played along. I’m not even remotely suggesting you treat anyone like dirt. I think people like to be kept guessing dude, If I get what I want from my wife all the time I get bored pretty soon and vice versa. It does not have to be some act or a front of some sort, Just give yourself some importance and make people really earn that loyalty and devotion bro. If I Had your experiences, I’d hedge my bets and get some extra curricular action at the mere sign of a dry spell, Hey you can’t be the victim of every single infidelity in your life. Or maybe habe some open relationships till you bump into some one looking to stay committed past 24 months.

          • Honestly, I’ve been thinking very deeply about this issue.
            Here’s the conundrum, current GF, total wife material, she’s AWESOME at everything, literally, except sex. Been 3 years, been seeing a therapist, she is actually trying, and admits that she has a problem, and that she used to have a sex drive, and she’s really not sure what happened (she’s been like this since we met) and due to my past experiences, I didn’t even care, I was like “well, all the women seem to have this issue, at least this girl is awesome to talk to and spend time with, and she really cares about me”
            And then, I have this friend, she’s great, she is totally in love with me, she’s more mature, she and my GF get along great, in fact, I think a friendship is blossoming (which is awesome, my GF has a really high IQ, so these dumb broads just don’t cut it for her, she’s not interested in talking about how hot actors are, or how sick facebook is…) and I had a thought one day. Why couldn’t I date both of them? I mean, all 3 of us get along, they get along great, I don’t sense any jealousy, and honestly, my gf hasn’t said it, but sometimes I think she realizes it as well, that we could have a mutlitple partner scenario, because I am the type of guy that would respect all parties, and I have enough “me” to go around, I think : ) lol, but ya, I even mentioned that if we ever get old and the relationship feels stale, that I have no objections to us bringing in new people to spice thing sup, she basically said, “only if we have to” I realize a 3 way is a lot of responsibility, and for the vast majority of people, they end in pain and heart break, and we might be no different, so I wouldn’t want it to destroy our relationship, but the friend has a high libido, gf has low libido, I have high libido, gf loves me but doesn’t “want” me much, friend wants me so bad I can see it on her face. But I probably won’t do it. It’s just something I had thought about, and at least in my mind, seemed like it might be interesting. But the whole jealousy thing, I dunno, I’ve never done the 3 way thing before, so not sure how itowuld actually be in practice, probably mixed results, but who knows, I’ll have to talk to GF some more about it if it get’s that bad that I can’t take it anymore…

          • Worst case scenario your current GF can be your very close friend. Ya’ll can chat all night….. At some point you’ll need some sexual healing I suppose. Bring this other Gal into fold.. who knows maybe you can get a show on TLC…

          • Maybe I will, shoot, maybe I’ll find out that these chicks are all lesbians trying to be straight, and secretly they want a 2nd chick around : )

          • You’ll be doing god’s work… keep me posted

      • Except when women have sole discretion over sex. Then it’s not equal, right?

        Men just have to ‘deal with it’ then….I mean, get lost.

        • You do realise the difference between sex and rape don’t you? And women don’t have the sole discretion over sex either; both partners have discretion over sex and both partners don’t have to be female either.

          • Men are at a distinct disadvantage (they have MUCH higher libidos) and you’d have to be extremely ignorant or just plain stupid to disagree.

          • So after an article that gives some evidence that the opposite might be true and the assertion by some poor little MRAs that they get cheated on every time by women, you now conclude women have a MUCH lower libido than men.
            Stunning.

          • Based on my experience they do. When I was a teenager I jerked off 3-5 times a day for about 5 years in a row, and I think I’m pretty average. It would be STUNNING if women had a 5 year period in their lives that they needed to orgasm that often. It’s obviously individual, but in general men don’t EVER turn down sex, and women OFTEN do.

          • You and Jeremy seem to enjoy talking about what you and your alter ego get up to on your own time. Maybe you two should meet up, you clearly have a lot in common and both clearly need the attentions of a soul mate.

          • There ya go, when losing an argument the default for women and feminists is always ad hominem. Any other personal attack you want to vent in my direction to make you FEEL like you’re winning?

          • I was just about to mention the ad hominem attacks! Thanks for. Also pointing that out. That’s so common… They always try to say that a man is either immature or gay, whenever they are not able to continue the discussion! Always!

          • Really, complaints about ad hominems from the man who called women bitches.
            So you and Jeremy never recouted, in detail, aspects of your sex life? I made that up hey?
            Oh and you do know what an ad hominem is don’t you?

          • Shaming/Ad Hominem/Strawman, all branches of the same emotive bullshit that is feminism.

          • Actually it is all part of the MRA play book, because they have no facts to back them up.

          • I dunno why you think I’m an MRA, because I’m not. And as if labelling me as such is some kind of insult?

            I am 100% pure avoidant. Society can self-destruct (and it will) for all I care. Like George Carlin, ‘I have no stake in it.’

            But I do point out what’s wrong, however no one cares enough to do anything about it.

          • Have you thought that you pointing out “what is wrong with it” is you actually pointing out “what you think is wrong with it” and it is in fact you who is wrong?

            MRA’s are just another bunch of whiners who won’t take responsibility for what is wrong in their lives, that’s why it’s an insult.

          • Why can’t you just admit that a large portion of the female population loves to manipulate, deny sex, and cheat on their partners?
            Men have no problem recognizing that many of our sex does the same thing.
            If I found an article saying that 40% of men have libido issues, I would only jump immediately to their defense if I felt at odds with what was being said, maybe you feel guilty because you do this yourself? Most people only respond to topics that tickle their fancy, and the majority of people on this page seems to be men agreeing with the diagnosis, and women like you, screaming how wrong we are…. Almost like you’re in denial about a problem that is well recognized? Almost like this struck home for you?
            Not trying to analyze you, but, this is just how the mind works.

          • Ah there’s your first problem. You assume I’m a woman.
            I fully accept that a fair proportion of women cheat on their partners and vice versa, it’s the claims of innateness of various characteristics that I have an issue with. Generalisations always bug me as do false appeals to science.
            As for your pop psychology, couldn’t be further from the truth 26 years with the same person and no straying. I guess I’m an outlier in your world.

          • ‘innateness of various characteristics that I have an issue with’

            Ya, but it’s obvious to literally every human being on the planet except liberals and feminists, and it IS backed up by science.

            Women with higher testosterone have higher libidos. Men have more testosterone than women. DING DING DING, you would EXPECT men to have higher libidos than women, IN GENERAL, right? The bell curve is skewed? La la la, statistics and endocrinology are sciences, feminism is just a politcal theory.

          • I graded English papers for 3 semesters, you write like a woman : ) I still think you are a woman. Generalizing is sadly, a requirement when you don’t want to point out in detail all parties involved. Plus, I never said “all” women are like this, just the vast majority I encounter, and in my case, most that I’ve dated. So I do in my case, kind of get to generalize, because from my standpoint it is true. Just like how you’re defending women like some righteous holy warrior, maybe you’re the female version of me, and your sense of commitment and fidelity are what drive you to defend women, because you know it’s possible to NOT be like the others. And I was right, but in reverse, you aren’t the cheater, you’re the girl that doesn’t cheat, and when you hear “all women cheat” it cuts deep, and angers you, I get it. I also clearly said I wasn’t trying to analyze you, but I was on the right page, just the wrong paragraph : )

          • I agree, it does ‘feel’ like a woman is writing this. :)

          • We have 60 years of rapid decline in the West, and feminism is certainly one of the causes.

            I’m all for personal responsibility, but don’t call men ‘whiners’ simply because they’re opting out of a game it’s now impossible for them to compete in, let alone win.

            Exercising forethought and opting out when the cons outweigh the pros is indicative of men taking responsibility for their lives, often at the sacrifice of their libidos.

            You can call them as many names as you want, and shame them as much as you can, but the only thing you’re going to accomplish is reinforce in them that they are right.

          • You keep trying to imply that because we have a problem, then it’s obviously just us, and that we’re completely delusional in our plights. That’s called projecting, and generally is the death rattle of a failed argument, much like grammar trolling. If you respond with more vapid blathering, then I’ll just know you’re in denial, now wise up, I actually did got to a major university, and took as many courses as I could over a 10 year period of time. I know a thing or two about the subconscious and psychology in general, which is why I make use of it with my partners. It’s not my fault that I’m man enough to face my faults, and discuss my problems openly, maybe you can explain to me why 3/4 of all psychological patients are male, yet most records show male / female being roughly equal in prevalence… Hmmm… Interesting…
            (I’m saying that men are less often in denial, when it comes to sex, and more willing to adjust their behavior to make this biological imperative more frequent, women, only half as often, even take the time out of their day to try to address the problem)

          • And an appeal to authority is also illustrative of an argument heading south. Psychology is tough to do well under the best of conditions yet here you are inferring stuff over a comments forum.
            As for you and others going into detail on just what incredible lovers you are, that isn’t being “man enough” whatever that is, that’s bragging and judging by the outcomes I’m not too sure why you are doing that.

          • Maybe you had that effect on their libido John…Hence your experience…

            I kid! You put that one on T buddy.

  8. What people don’t understand is that we upset the natural order with birth control. Let’s accept that the two year rule is accurate. Lets also imagine a world without birth control. In 2 years what are the odds that a monogamous man and woman do not end up preggers Atleast Once? Very small, thats the god damn odds. And the resultant anchor baby is what assures the woman doesnt then proceed to the next slab of man meat she deems worthy.

    • Very good point. The age old problem of man being arrogant and bucking nature. The original sin!

  9. Well being polyamorous sure helps with the sex drive… no need for a drug, just maybe an open mind and open communication. It’s not as unusual as you’d think. However, definitely not for everyone.

  10. The problem is the distant pastures syndrome along with the itch between their two big toes.

  11. I find it interesting that most of the comments posted are from men. I guess they do know what is best for a woman…..

    • weird hey; and they fail to see how that might be part of the issue.

    • Considering most women have no idea what they want (and most, in their rare times of brevity, will admit such), yes, what you say is correct.

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