The angriest men in news - Macleans.ca
 

The angriest men in news

Pierre Karl Péladeau and Kory Teneycke hate Canadian news channels so much that they’re launching one


 

Dozens of reporters squeezed into a cramped room at the Sun’s headquarters in Toronto on Tuesday morning to hear Pierre Karl Péladeau and Kory Teneycke confirm what everyone already knew going in: Quebecor Media Inc. is launching an all-news television network to compete with CBC News Network and CTV News Channel.

The channel, dubbed Sun TV News, is slated to launch January 1, 2011, and promises “hard news and straight talk.” On Tuesday, that “straight talk” mostly took the form of potshots at Sun TV News‘s eventual competitors.

“Canadian TV news today is narrow, it’s complacent, and it’s politically correct,” Teneycke, the former director of communications for the Prime Minister’s Office and now the vice-president of development at Quebecor, told reporters. “It’s bland and boring, and Canadians, as a result, have largely tuned out.” Sun TV News, he said, will be “unapologetically patriotic” and “controversially Canadian.”

Populist sales pitch aside, neither Péladeau nor Teneycke were willing to brand the content they plan to broadcast as “right-wing,” much less endorse the channel’s nickname in the media: “Fox News North.” Still, it’s clear both men see an ideological chasm between what makes it to air on CBC’s and CTV’s news channels and what Quebecor plans to offer. “English Canada today is ill-served by the incumbent specialty news channels,” Peladeau, Quebecor’s president and CEO, said. “As a result, far too many Canadians are tuning out completely or changing their dials to American all-news channels.” To get those viewers back, Péladeau’s channel will offer a distinctly Fox News-like mix of news and confrontational commentary. Just don’t call it Fox News North.

Many hurdles remain before Quebecor can start beaming that “controversially Canadian” content to Canadian audiences, not least of which are the regulatory hoops through which the media giant must jump. The company is currently petitioning the CRTC for what’s called a category 1 license, meaning cable and satellite providers would have to offer the channel to subscribers; category 2 licenses, by contrast, allow cable and satellite companies to ignore the channel entirely. To Quebecor, the difference is hardly arcane: CBC News Network is said to collect $65 million in carriage fees thanks to its category 1 license; CTV News Channel, with its category 2 license, takes in a comparatively modest $15 million.

Péladeau has been a steady presence on Parliament Hill over the past 18 months, gaining access to some of the most senior people in government. In fact, he’s racked up over two dozen lobbying meetings with a mix of government ministers and high-ranking bureaucrats, including two with Stephen Harper in early 2009—back when Teneycke was still working in the PMO. In the meantime, Teneycke’s recruiting net has landed him two prominent press gallery veterans in David Akin and Brian Lilley, with Teneycke promising more additions to the roster soon.

As could be expected, the channel already has its critics in the media. In a widely-circulated blog post, Don Newman, the former host of Politics on CBC, wrote the channel would polarize Canadian political parties by “urging them to be more rabid.” Sun TV News, in Newman’s view, is “the last thing Canada needs.” But at Tuesday’s press conference, the angriest people in the room weren’t the reporters covering the announcement; they were Teneycke and Péladeau, who were all-too-eager to promise to lay waste to their rivals.

“We’re taking on the mainstream media,” Teneycke warned the assembled journalists. “We’re taking on smug, condescending, often irrelevant journalism. We’re taking on political correctness. We will not be a state broadcaster offering boring news by bureaucrats, for elites, and paid for by taxpayers.”

What was once a conservative pipe dream has come a long, long way in a remarkably short period of time. The “Fox News North” project now finds itself bankrolled by one of the richest men in Canada, headed by a former top-tier government official, and on track for a January launch. Apparently, that’s a lot to be angry about.


 

The angriest men in news

  1. Let them launch … I think Canadians are a bit more sophisticated than our American friends and that
    a Fox-style channel full of bombastic pseudo-news is likely to fail here, not because the CRTC ("nanny state")
    will block it, but because the audience would rather get calm reporting than shouting matches between ideologues.

    • "Canadians are a bit more sophisticated"? More arrogant perhaps, but allowing your leftist 'betters' to speak for you is not 'sophistication' it's abdication.

      • So right, Philanthropist. However, Canadians are more commonly described as "smug" than as arrogant. This is so right, too.

    • really? you think Canadians are 'more sophisticated'?

      I think you've failed to appreciate the impact that Fox had over the last decade.

      I also think that the comments from many conservatives posting on Canadian sites demonstrate how willing they are to engage in the very worst of it right along with their US counterparts.

      The Conservative Party of Canada & their Party Propagandists will do a lovely job of creating a gun-toting, wild-eyed TeaParty Movement eventually. Like everything else, its a slow erosion when a society is told that carrying guns & screaming about 'brown & yellow people coming to get your stuff!' is a classy behaviour.

  2. "The CBC is one of Harpers most vexing public adversaries. CBC, CTV and other public broadcasters closely follow Harper and his party, exposing their crimes, internal intrigues and scandals. They are the target of several libel actions taken by members of the Party. The broadcasters frame of reference is from a populist perspective, and for this reason, Harper has formed his own media outlet and defunded and shortly force the closure of a number of news outlets across Canada, the buildings to be taken over by the government. Destroying paper and digital files will ensure that the collective memory of what this country once was will be lost. Oh, wait a minute. My bad. Replace Harper with Hitler, CBC and other broadcasters with the Municher Post (and others) and Canada with Germany, etc. Silly me, fruedian slips…Hey, did you know that before 1928, Germany was the last place a "hitler" would have been expected to rise from? Seems everyone thought France was the most intolerant country and all that was required was corporate industrial dollars (BMW, Thyssen, etc.) dollars to help Hitler establish a media empire or Ministry of Propoganda.

    • Right on Brother. Unfortunately Canadians aren't watching or listening. And Harper knows this. As the likes of a Jack Layton and Michael Ignatieff talk tough and do nothing. We are in deep trouble in this country. Certain print columnists have been pointing this out. But for some reason…Harper keeps breaking down our democracy…and nobody seems to want to stop him. Harper once said, "When I get through with Canada you won't recognize it." Ain't that the truth.

      • Wow, Godwin's Law by the second post. That's impressive.

        • Ok.. But Godwin's law does not refer to whether the reference to Hitler is appropriate. We can go on all night talking about why Godwin's law exists, and that has a lot to do with history repeating itself in real life. But what is more important in this instance is to recognize that Canada has more in common with 1930s Germany than with its own history at any other time. Never have international corporations and our top tier politicians so brazenly married their interests to the detriment of the individual in the same way while there was no political opposition to speak of. That was what made the Hitler we know today. I'd like to know your thoughts on whether you see a parallel between 1930s Germany and our political landscape in Canada today. Or do you know anything about Hitler and how he overthrew the Weimar Republic?

          • To refute you completely, ponder these academic sources that confirm the existence of an elite in Canada… pretty much since Confederation:

            Harrison, Reginald, J. (1980) Pluralism and Corporatism: The political evolution of modern democracies. (London, George Allen & Unwin)

            Clement, W. (1986) The Canadian Corporate Elite: An Analysis of Economic Power (Ottawa: Carleton University Press)

            Cross, W. (2002) Political Parties, Representation, and Electoral Democracy in Canada (Oxford: Oxford University Press)

            Brooks, S. (1996) Too Close For Comfort? Lobbying and Political Parties: in Tanguay, A. & Gagnon, A. (1996) Canadian Parties in Transition (Scarborough: Nelson Canada)

    • What a stupid comment by linking Harper to Hitler. What a simpleton commont! Enough of the hyperbole already.

      • And praytell how do Harper and Hitler difffer, Chair? Is Hitler a cartoon to you or do you actually know anything about the man and his political machine?

        • Hitler was appointed in 1934 as the leader of a coalition government.

          Foot, meet mouth.

        • Tell me where Harper has committed genocide? You should read up on your history before you talk about the man and political machine? Hitler killed his right hand man because he was a threat. Get your facts straight before you chide others about viewing Hitler as a cartoon. Your comments expose you to be a simpleton.

    • Hmmm?
      no.
      I call, BS.

    • There's a lot more in common between HARPER and HITLER than you think.
      H-E-R …
      Fill in the blanks : H_ _ _ ER.

      • HIstory repeats….

        Ummm…what did you repeat? By the way your postings read, I would say you repeated grade's three through 7….and then just gave up.

        Keep voting NDP……you sound like you are EXACTLY the kind of person they're looking for.

  3. Coming into this article, I was hoping to read about a new unbiased, unfiltered news network that Canadians will be able to trust. I lost much hope after I read the line including “Fox News North” and "bankrolled by one of the richest men in Canada".

    I hope I'm wrong but that seems like a recipe for more of the American style negative propaganda that is already plaguing our TV channels.

    • Thank god for that off button.!

      I look forward to listening 24./7.I dislike the LBC and the ctv ( think Fife) are really bad at delivery.

  4. Not for elites? Let's see…Monopolistic business empire takes a break from its usual intensive lobbying of politicians for special priviledge and protection to start a news channel that won't be for elites? As if!

    • You forgot to mention: headed by former head advisor to the Prime Minister.

      Lesson: No matter how high a conservative climbs, no matter how much control they have over a part of society (i.e. media), they're still not elites, and they're still victims of the "liberal PC crowd".

      When are they going to stop pushing this BS and grow up?

  5. A friend of mine moved from the States because he found that after Fox news was established by Rupert Murdoch, people who were friends for years suddenly couldn't stand each other because the country was being whipped into an intolerant fury. These are people in posh neighbourhoods that golf at their clubs, not trailer park folk. Yes, we are that malleable.

    • Oh please!

      • Great rebuttal. You may be in line for a job on SunTV News.

    • Your friend left his home and his country because of Fox News?

      That seems plausible!

      • Our frame of reference for the last 70 yrs or so in Canada is one of a government that is for the public, with business on the other side of the table. It's been recognized that corporations and government are powerful and thus have strong voices. The only reason Fox News is established is to harungue everyday citizens and to stop the government from helping people and to keep the current politicians in power as enablers of industry. The disregard for human life and the awful atmosphere that results from this type of hurricane thrown at citizens makes for a terrible life unless you're the top 5% of the population. Many people flee these types of regimes. Thank god Obama took out Bush. Unfortunately, the rats fled the ship and set up camp here.

        • You might want to take off that tinfoil hat.

    • I can believe it: why?

      because when your neighbours & acquaintances become rabid strangers spouting nonsense, its a little hard to feel community unity.

      There is nothing uglier than watching people lie professionally, & watching your formerly respected friends & neighbours lap up that garbage like cream & vomit it into every conversation…

      Fox News loves creating witch hunts & their vapid acolytes seem incapable of passing the bait…

  6. well, well,
    Harper: Well Kory, you quit your job, make the rounds on talk TV, make life miserable for those commies adn we'll keep you on the payroll. Meanwhile get this NEWS CHANNEL thing under way with my new best friend Pierre Karl here.

    Pierre: But what about the CRTC, the Tier 1 license? No license, no cable subscriber's money. And I'm not hanging my ass out there on no money.

    Harper: Hey, you're talking to the guy who they call Mr. Income Trust, prorogued parliament twice, broke my own election law AND have shut down the entire Afghanistan war here at home…nobody knows what's going on over there…do you really think a TV license is a problem…besides if the CRTC doesn't I will and then I'll fire all those bastards myself.

    Kory: I like it boss. Ah, Boss do I run my own TV NEW CHANNEL?

    Pierre: You don't know shit about running a NEWS CHANNEL?

    Harper: And you Pierre don't think I'm going to give you a news channel with public cable funding without my people running the thing?

    Pierre: Oh boy. Lucky for you I'm so damn greedy and deep in debt.

    Harper: Hey don't look at me.

  7. Ever watch someone reading the Sun? They breathe through their mouths and move their lips at the same time. And whenever I've read it, the mix of opinion masquerading as news is very disconcerting.

    • I didn't know that people who buy The Sun could actually read. They just pay to stare at advertising and drool.

      • Hey Chair…that was an excellent response. What grade are you in?

        • the one above yours. Thanks.

    • …and the rest who read the Toronto Red Star wet their pants…so what? What's the point you're trying to make? What a stupid comment.

    • the mix of opinion masquerading as news is very disconcerting

      Sounds like the CBC.

      • We no longer tune into the CBC- I am hoping for this new news channel to fill avoid, albeit a small one.We seldom watch the news anymore.I do watch CNN and fox, what does that make me.An awful person.

  8. Kory's idea of controversial seems to involve insulting people and casually smearing them, rather like the party he used to work for. To hear Kory speak, Omar Khadr may not have been convicted of anything yet, but yet he's "a little terrorist". The 17 or so documents that Richard Colvin put together as Canada's senior representative in Kandahar were "a memo by a junior diplomat". Harper referred the other day in Parliament to Ignatieff's French country home. Blackburn used to call Dion "le prof Dion". Sun TV News will be the usual fake populism and anti-elitism from one of the most elitist crowds in town.

    • The Con's didn't do Dion in, the Fiberals did…or did you forget? Oh sorry, don't let facts get in the way of a good Fib.

    • Ha! You're so right, Foxy News. Go read "More Money Than Brains" by Laura Penny … you'll get a rueful laugh out of it.

      Faux news = untruth as truth.

  9. That said, CBC news looks sloppy these days. A few nights ago they declared bluntly that "many people in Alberta" were unhappy about the G20 summit costs, and interviewed seven of them. Last night they told us that many people in the southern U.S. fishing communities felt strongly about something or other and talked to one (1) person. If I see the same old boring talking heads on Evan Solomon's show I will fall asleep. It's the same people time and time and time again. Sure, change would be good. Whether the best way to shake up the scene is to bring in a diluted Fox News is another question.

    • It's about money. A News Program needs researchers, chase producers and stringers to stay on top of things. You can't do it with a skeleton crew of people. CBC NEWS has been cut to the bone. You may see what seems like a full complement of reporters on air…but behind the scenes the CBC is management heavy as support staff (researchers etc.) have been cut to nothing. It's pretty bad. And Harper intends on continual cuts to the CBC…until the corp goes to air in name only. Because if you want responsible reporting it takes time and people to get the facts. As for the likes of a SUN TV NEWS, you don't need facts…facts only get in the way…all you need is a Tenecyke spouting of ugly aspersions and lies to fill air time. It's called Angry TV or Radio…you attract all the nuts and those angry with their lot in life.

      • Like you.

      • and while CBC is "cut to the bone", a few well placed feeds to Fox North by the Conservatives will give them the inside scoop that lends credibility as a news network.

      • Funny, CTV seems to deliver the same calibre of programming without the public purse's support.

        • That would be because they are not obligated by law to deliver services in areas where there is no money to be made. They don't have to deliver programming in two languages. And they don't have to offer both TV and radio programming.

        • CTV got a ton of public money in the form of Economic Action ads during the Olympics.
          No doubt they did okay out of the CPC during the last election or 2 as well.

  10. Good for them. Our news reports are boring.
    I watch BBC Canada to get my international news – it's better.

    • Now there is a true biased and left-wing news manipulator. The CBC is well on the right of middle as measured from the BBC.

  11. Thank Goodness. I for one am so fed up with our current left wing socialist media I welcome this refreshing concept. No more CBC for me. The media has abused its position in Canada . It no longert is foucsed on reporting the news. They now focus on generating and crewating news stories. It s high time we really have freedom in the media.

    • No longer focused on delivering the news?
      How do people come up with drivel like this?!

      • Winston, you cant have an opinion and blog it.Even if you are right!

    • Examples, please. What specific story lately has the CBC "created"? What specific story has the CBC not reported in order to instead focus on this "created" news you speak of? This is Palin-esque : make a grand statement and say it's high time to change without having anything concrete to back up the stated assumptions. Fox News North will be a whole lot of that so enjoy.

      • I can give you a great example of how CBC reports, this morning on the CBC New Network, they used pictures taken by Liberal Party members regarding Clement's riding, along with dialogue that went with each picture. It was presented as a news piece, there was no CBC reporter or journalist involved, but it went on air as written and taken by the LIberals. So can you in anyway say there is not bias in this type of reporting? We can then move over to Power Play with Evan Solomon and Don Newman taking on Teneycke it was like a tag team wrestling match, Newman foaming at the mouth. That old goat is hoping for his Liberal Senate seat yet, everytime he "writes" or conjures up a column it is pure anti-Conservative rhetoric. And yet they found no bias in the journalism, guess that's what happen when one of your own does the investigation!

  12. I more than welcome them. Not because I am a fan of Fox – despite being a Canadian living in the US, I have never tuned into Fox.

    But I welcome them because so many liberals are opposed to this idea – as if freedom of speech ONLY applies to liberal ideology. If you happen to disagree, well, then you should be censored. That's not opened mindedness – that's close mindedness with different beliefs. I laugh when people say that the CBC is neutral – I don't agree with most of what comes out of that channel. But hey, it's non-partisan right? Only because it's a bunch of liberals defending them – of course it's neutral to them!

    Bring them on – I'm tired of the social engineering via censorship that takes place in Canada.

    • I smell a Conservative mouthpiece and the US can have you….permanently. You talk about freedom of speech with forked tongue.

      • exactly, differing opinions are always, always, always conservative infiltrators. Especially if they differ with you right? Why is it that you think your opinons are superior? It's certainly not because you have a superior logical response to the issue, to wit…

        "I didn't know that people who buy The Sun could actually read. They just pay to stare at advertising and drool."

        that's a clear demonstration of your attitude. I'll just dismiss them with a bit of ad hominem and dust off my hands. That is exactly why this new channel is neccessary. To offset the sheer arrogance of the left in this country. You chose the last part of your ID well.

    • I think people are generally against lies, propaganda, and hate-mongering, regardless of political orientation.

  13. Faux New Canada indeed!
    At least the Sun newspapers serve a purpose (in the outhouse).
    Considering Mulroney is on the Board of Quebecor could this be a propaganda ploy to keep his scabby butt out of jail?

    • Finally! An opinion against the new network without disparaging people who might be for it. Thank you. Some of the other comments regarding the new network was childish and idiotic.

  14. Where did anyone ever get the impression or notion that the newsmedia is "left wing"? What a bunch of crap, if anything all news media outlets are just toadys for their advertisers.
    A right wing news, yeah it will be Fox News North, divisive, ill informed, right wing reactionary fascist crap. I for one will change the channel or have a laugh if I do decide to watch.

    • "Where did anyone ever get the impression or notion that the newsmedia is "left wing"?"

      When you are that far right, everyone and everything is "left wing."

      • I suppose you are correct. Hardly just the facts. I am so tired of the phrase "liberal media" its always
        the advertisers that dictate the editorial content, after all its a business.

    • Because Harper has always told them so – they don't care to find out if what he says is true or not. They just believe every lie he tells. Sad

    • "divisive, ill informed, [left wing] reactionary fascist crap." Perfect description of CBC and CTV.

      • Wait…CTV is a lefty station now? I mean, I know Mike Duffy has left, but…

        • Yes CTV is socialistic and then there are all those lefties at CanWest as well.
          This is yet another American "truth" that has crept north.

  15. I can a hardly wait for this new channel to begin broadcasting. I am so fed up with the leftist tripe served up by the CBC that I can't take it any longer. And what's worse I am forced to foot the bill for it. Comrade Mansbridge is one of the worst offenders but my local CBC radio station is just as bad. When this channel launches, I will lock out the CBC channels on my cable box and Fox News North will be my main source for Canadian news weather and sports. Good Bye CBC. Been a slice.

    • Still have the fears of "Reds" hiding under your bed Klem? Take your medication and everything will be OK. And I'm sure the new station will use small words to help you understand.

    • Your last name must be Kadiddlehopper. Yes, you will most assuredly increase your skewed knowledge of the world at your new anti-honesty and anti-all semblance of civility and decency infotainment channel.

    • I'm trying to figure out how the left-wing bias impacts the CBC weather and sports report.

      On the plus side, I can cancel my Comedy Channel subscription. I'll get Ezra Colbert for free now.

      • Well, the CBC shows Europopular sports like track & field. It must be leftist if the Euros like it. They should stick to patriotic sports.

    • You do know quebecor funds the PQ, don't you?

    • Sign me up!

  16. I phoned my local cable provider and asked them that if they have a list of people who have contacted them about wanting the opportunity to put their name down for the getting the show – apparently I wasn't the only caller willing to go through the phone menu and be patient enough to get to the point of putting my name on the ' Support List ' I for one can't wait and it will indeed be a wonderful opportunity for some balance in our media .. PS: the more pundits and web fporum hyper partisan harper haters get angry at this the better as it shows clearly where their bias is.

    • I think asking to be put on a waiting list for a product that doesn't exist yet makes you eccentric, or at least an eager beaver. You won't get it any faster, better, cheaper than if you sign up in January. Also, if they get their way, you won't have any choice over whether you get their channel.

    • Bad news for you then. We're all pretty much saying "sure, launch away, let the market decide'.

      • we kemosabe – from a Macleans web forum ROFLMFAO

    • Obviously the "left-wing" media is so powerful it has distorted your understanding of the word "balance".

    • you support generating HATE

      lovely.

      yeah, Canada needs more HATE.
      …Because all the BEST things in Life & a Society grow so beautifully with a lovely foundation of manure & HATE?

      good one, ConservoBot.

  17. Great news and we are very much looking forward to it in this house. However, as others have noted, they will quickly lose us if the format and level of news and discussion is not well above that exhibited in the Sun newspaper chain, which we do not and would not read. If they can bring in a conservative voice and hold it at a level that is intelligent and in its better moments parallels the NP and best of FOX, then I think they have a slam dunk winner, one that will make a serious hole in the viewership of the existing news stations, draw them toward more balanced presentation and in doing so, make a considerable contribution to informing Canadians.

    • I think it's fair to say that this is not what they intend. They want to be anti-PC which is code for deliberately provocative. I expect a lot of hatchet-jobs like we see on Fox. I'm thinking we should expect 'inciteful' rather than insightful commentary, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

      • "I think asking to be put on a waiting list for a product that doesn't exist yet makes you eccentric, or at least an eager beaver."

        Here you critique someone for being proactive about wanting to sign up for the new programing because it doesn't exist yet……..

        " I expect a lot of hatchet-jobs like we see on Fox. I'm thinking we should expect 'inciteful' rather than insightful commentary, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong."

        And here you are doing the exact same thing!
        Liberals are such mindless b@@bs!

        • How exactly is it the same thing? I'm not calling Bell to request that I not receive the channel. I'm expressing my expectations about channel and my hope that I'm wrong.

          Your comment doesn't make any sense. If you want to call me a boob, at least do it coherently. Explain it so my wee pea-brain can understand.

          • He said he was going to look into how to sign up for the service and you told him to wait until available.
            Did you wait to see what was on offer by them before you started to slag it for what it COULD be?
            Just saying you should wait and see as you instructed him to do, what's good for the goose and all.

          • I think you're torquing that pretty hard. Whether you like it or loath it, there's no point in buying something that can't be delivered. He'll just have to call again in January as I wouldn't trust the cable company to keep track of who requested the channel in advance.

    • "Which we do not and would not read". Narrow minded are we? Not open to opposing view points? Typical Liberal leftard!

      • Err… read his post. he wants it to reflect the National Post. I'd hardly call the poster a Liberal leftard.

  18. Of course, the collectivists whining here do not welcome the increased diversity of thought.
    Not the right sort of ideas for you? Turn the channel.
    Go Snow Fox!

    • It's actually quite interesting. Most of the posts so far have been either "That's nice, who cares" or "The left is going to go crazy!" Censorship"

      Seems to be a lack of the predicted "Arr! Don't left the evil Cons have their own network!".

      Methinks thou doth protest too much.

  19. As an aside, is not Mr Peladeau closely related by marriage to that iconic and much admired liberal, Jean Chretien? Could there be a hidden Liberal sub-plot here?

  20. Just an excuse to be the racist bigots they keep trying to deny that they are.

    • Like the CBC, so why not.

    • You mean like your being right now?

      • and like you?

  21. I love your title, Philippe, because that is exactly what I thought when I listened to Kory K. denigrate the other networks during his presser.

    I seriously hope that they are successful in launching this and I'm a bit disappointed that they wouldn't go on air until next year.

    I believe that Fox News North will have an audience in Canada but I also think that the majority of Canadians will recoil in horror and take another closer look at the CPC. I hope that Harper allows his caucus to do interviews with the likes of Ezra. Those soundbites are sure to rival that of Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck.

  22. Lovely, a right wing conservative channel designed to brainwash the small minded intolerant lemmings of the nation and whip them into the same hysteria that Fox does in the US. Lovely. I can't stand the fact that our government is slowly being taken over by the Christian movement in Canada, and now the media will be as well. I don't even consider myself a left wing socialist, I consider myself an intelligent person guided by rational common sense. But the right wing is guided by conservative Christian values, something written in a book 2000 years ago and completely unapplicable to modern society. I wish I could start a political party called the Common Sense party, and completely separate church and government. I mean, we try and say that church and gov't are separate in Canada, but how can it be when our leaders are all guided by conservative Christian values?

    • Why don't you? I mean, typical Fiberal armchair strategist pointing fingers at everything saying what should be and then doing nothing about it. Put up or shut up fella.

    • If you can't stand it then start that party! Put up or shut up fella.

    • People whose views differ from mine are bad people and should be permanently silenced or at least be forbidden to express their opinions in a public forum, Herp Derp…

      • Way to totally miss what I'm saying (all 3 of you). The gov't should be run by individuals with 100% unbiased logic. I don't want someone governing my country using logic that is based on something written in a book 2000 years ago. By the same token, I don't really want leftist socialists running it either. Unfortunately, I'm also a realist, and know that there's no way in he]] someone with no political science, legal or business background can do anything in politics. By me saying "I wish i could start a political party" is akin to me saying "I wish I could fly". Yes, you're right, I'm complaining, that's what these forums are for.

        • Can we not have any sort of civil discourse without getting personal or snippy? I wish folks would just take the diatribe out of their posts and express non-vulgar, intelligent opinions without getting personal regardless of political stripe. I think Pisano was just expressing an opinion..don't have to agree with it, but let's not attack this poster who happens to have a right to express his/her own opinion. This still is Canada isn't it?

  23. They're not going to be producing news for elites eh?

    So, Péladeau and Teneycke won't have anything to watch on their own network???

  24. I suppose your idea of a leftist is someone that doesn't buy the corporate view of the world. Right wing media is by definition just PR nonsense. Quebecor is the latest in the corporate disinformation campaign. Keep them scared, angry, and stupid.

    Enjoy!

    • The same can be said fopr left wing media.

    • You seem very scared, of what? a tv show come on now libbies

  25. It should be interesting, anyway. There are stricter laws regarding defamation and libel here in Canada. That might take some of the "angry" out of the talking heads at night…

  26. I am going to do the most radical thing of all. I am going to get my news from a variety of source, print, online, t.v. with a variety of slants, liberal, conservative, centrist etc…, and then i will come to my own conclusions about what is going on in the world.

    In the end, i will just vote for the tallest candidate.

    • Woah there, that's just crazy talk..

      And might I be so bold to suggest challenging your own assumptions and biases from time to time.. as opposed to looking at the world from a singular perspective…

      I am all for a variety of news sources, but will be sorely disappointed if this network ends up simply pandering to those who only like to listen to people they agree with…

  27. go for it. But don't ask me to subsidize it with my cable subscription

    • I say that about CBC

      • Hey t-man the CBC is primarily funded by taxpayers so now you can get all lathered up about that as well.

        • Yes , I know that. I am not in lather, the ratings have dropped on the LBC, soon they will be toast

  28. GREAT! The CBC and it's biases will get shaken up……now if we could get a replacement for the Toronto Star which is nothing more than a Liberal Rag

    • hear hear!

    • It's called the National Post, and it's up for sale.

    • So, you don't believe in democracy, a right to a different opinion or respect for those who have a different opinion – that's called dictatorship.

      • It appears that a lot of people here on the left side of the fence are the ones having an issue with a differing opinion.
        That is par for the course………………

  29. Political power brokers and billionaires get together to form a news channel that will speak up for the common man.

    And for my next trick …

  30. Great! Canada needs another all-comedy channel. Right-wing news? No such thing. right-wing opinion? sure … just watch those paragons of virtue bill O'Reilly and his fellows. Now THERE'S a standard to sink towards …

    heh heh heh …

    Get out the popcorn.

  31. The fact that Newman really doesn't like it is a very good sign. Clearly this new operation is doing something right.

    As to the anger: good. I've been angry about the slant I see in CBC news coverage for quite a while, particularly as I have to pay for it. I would willingly pay double that amount every year to see the CBC crushed by a determined rival.

    • Amen, this could be another nail in the CBC's coffin

      • I am hoping it will be

      • No, no you meant "allow another voice in the media spectrum" not "crush the cbc until it's dead and off the air", right?

        Because it would be hypocritical to want one off the air and not the other. Or did I misread my talking points memo?

        • Gaunillon is a bit of a mystery. He sounds like he knows what he's talking about most of the time but every now and then he comes up with statements like the one above that go against all other previous impressions.

        • Who cares if the CBC remains on the air or not, if they lose all their remaining viewers. However, when their viewers flee, I'd like to see their billion dollar subsidy disappear as well.

        • "Or did I misread my talking points memo?"
          Not at all – you've clearly read your talking points memo just right. What you have misread is my comment, as well as the "Reply" threading system on which you responded to the wrong guy.

          Anyhoo, the best option is an unbiased news source, or at least one that makes an honest attempt. We don't have such a thing in Canada. The second best option is multiple news sources from a variety of viewpoints. We don't have that either in Canada, but this could be the start.

          As to the CBC, my anger at what I view as their abuse of the public's money and the public's trust inclines me to think that they should be taken off the air as a point of justice, even if another equally slanted (but hopefully not publicly funded) network replaces them.

  32. Just a thought here … why are the MENso upset? Can't get richer? Can't get their own way? And why MEN? Not enough women? (maybe women are smarter, and don't pay much attention to this kind of right-wing trash?) This whole idea sounds more and more like a public ca$h-grab by greedy Conservatives. The fact that Sun News will be asking the CRTC for 'must provide' status only reinforces my thought … if it was any good it would be able to make in on its own, not through force-feeding to the lumpen-proletariat, eh?

    • Here we go with the man hate. At least you're explicit Martin, I give you credit ( this word means "props", in Toronto speak) for forthrightness. Phillipe, how can you even mention the word hate adjacent to conservatives when all you have to do is read the comments on your own blog to see the left has a virtual monopoly on hate in Canada? Look! Looooooooooooook! It's hideous!

      Thirty percent of women support the Conservatives, which is only marginally lower than their support among men and, depending on the poll, actually higher than female support for Liberals. Women care about taxes and crime and the economy too, you know, they're not all ill mannered ill tempered greedy bimbos looking for a handout as Liberals would have you believe.

      • Stepford women support the mysoginistic Reform/Allianc types. Fortunately 70% of Canadian women have too much self-respect, whereas it appears that abt 65% of men do. What can one say about the minority who do support this divisive, fiscally irresponsible, vindictive group of socially regressive and insecure men, except …………….EVOLVE.

  33. Lame headline, there's no anger like Liberal anger, as evidenced by the violent, angry mob that shut down Coulter's speech at the U of O.

    Our boy Kory is right: Canadian MSM is politically correct to the point they just can't do their job. We also have the highest concentration of media ownership in the developed world so unless you are a corporate lickspittle you will support Sun TV and you will like it, mkay?

    I'll say this: Sun TV is going to make money hand over fist and will be wildly popular very quickly. It's the best thing to happen to Canada since poutine was invented, I am so happy about this.

    • Whoa … Ann Coulter chickened out of that speech, remember? Her decision, based on her 'handlers' (including the likes of Levant). She, like most Conservatives now in Canada, is a fraud looking for more money from someone else's pocket. She got scared of actually having to defend her views by people better educated than her.

      Real thinking Conservatives need to get a debate going with people who can actually THINK and who take time to listen to others, not just shout, stomp and declare. The angry right-wing in Canada is starting to just shout, stomp and declare, rather than listen and think. The last time we had a thinking Conservative government here was under Joe Clark who, if not particularly successful, was at least enormously decent and thoughtful as a human being.

      Remember Ms Coulter's comment to a Muslim student, to go get a camel to go somewhere? Say … there's a great right-wing thought … right up there with short-term creationism. And Glenn Beck is news? Heh heh heh … more popcorn, please.

      Conservatives = greedy. Never forget this … Dief, Mulroney and now Harper, all ready to sell our country for private profit. Coulter and her ilk are just useful cannon-fodder for the big money. She will be disposed of by them as soon as she is no longer useful.

      • "She got scared of actually having to defend her views by people better educated than her."

        HA HA HA! Ann would chew EVERY leftard on this site and spit them out.
        Go ahead try to debate her big boy! She will have you crying like a baby toot sweet!

        • Really, you are using the word "debate" and "ann coulter" in the same sentence?! Come now, let us behave a little more honestly than that. I laughed though, so, thanks for that.

  34. I think people may have misunderstood the PC part of the message. The Sun media empire is known for its "populist conservative editorial stance" but even better known for another feature.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunshine_Girl

    If the National is going to keep up, weatherwoman Claire is going to have to get some new outfits.

    • Ok, I'd tune in for that, at least…

      • Amanda Lang please and thank you….

  35. I'm sure it will have the same stellar production values that made 'Last Bride Standing' Sun TV's flagship show.

    :*)

    • Come now, that was a perfectly adequate banquet hall.

  36. The rabid comments here a wee bit much. If the network does well, good on 'em, and if the network does poorly, then close it up.

    Which brings me to the nonsense about the CRTC 'crats basically granting companies the license to print money if they award a category 1 license. Here's a radical thought almost nobody will like. How about the CRTC just gets outta the damn way, cable & satellite distribution companies can carry (or not) whatever they choose, and we the consumer can pay for what he or she wants to watch? Gee, I wonder what will happen to CBC Newsworld if it loses its $65 million freebie — oh wait, the whole entire CBC lives on taxpayer-supported freebies. All right. Kill the CBC, then the CRTC gets outta the damn way…

    • I think if you're ideologically pure enough that you don't want your cable fees subsidizing some channel or other, you do have the option of not getting cable. Jus' saying . . .

      For me, not getting cable iss just basic microeconomics. The marginal benefit of cable drivel is less than the opportunity cost. Despite being a utility, cable just doesn't have a lot of utility.

  37. Maybe it will dare to mention climate gate! the CBC has pushed Gore and suzuki long enough.Go kory!

    • Doesn't t-man have anywhere else to lurk and spread the tired lies. Go on and call me names…in fact "Call me a Camel"

      • T = tyranesaurus rex (extinct) – and so will go the likes of the old red-faced and scowling old boys who just can't keep up with the ever-changing times.

        • TyranNOsaurus Rex……….close relatives still alive…………they are called birds!
          Speaking of keeping up and all!

    • Don't you understand? You're not allowed to have a different view on anything considered 'settled' by those in the know. 'Settled' subjects include: immigration, multiculturalism, abortion, justice reform, gays in society, the inherent evilness of men (unless you're Chavez or Marx), equalization payments, religion in schools etc etc etc. Now back to our regular CTV/CBC programming…an indepth discussion with Nicaraguan plantain farmers….zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  38. I'm still confused why this network leased space in the National Press Building. Wouldn't it be easier to keep everyone under the same roof in Langevin Block?

  39. I guess it goes to show people don't really listen, they only hear want they want to hear: obviously the CBC isn't neutral, but to say it's a socialist news media is taking it way too far. People get told the CBC is biased and they simply believe it rather than make their own opinion of it.

    As far as what this new news channel is supposed to be or going to be, I'll admit I'm skeptical but I don't know if its because of all the bad press around it. I just hope it won't simply be a Fox News North like it's being branded (perhaps unfairly) by a lot of people in the media. and for waht it's worth Newman's column on CBC about it makes perfect sense if it does end up being a carbon copy of FOX news.

  40. Its shocking, read one national newspaper you read them all. Listen to one national TV newscast you see them all. AP controls them all. However it happens the news media conspires to shame our country and put down the very things that other countries see as great. Our Military, our govenment, our generousity to other nations, our open arms to other races and cultureS… Canada is No. 1. If this new channel can build up what is right in Canada and make us proud to be Canadians, I'll watch. I'll event PAY to watch it. The other media I'LL just catch FREE online. Why should I pay for that drivel! Ohh yes, the best time in Canada was proagation, the leftist progressing defeatists parties and media had to stop their crying at protesting every time Harper stepped on their feet! And regarding the cost of security at the G8 and G 20. Looks like he is doing the job right. The whole world will reflect well on Canada as 3000 reporters tape thier comments by our wonderful indoor reflecting pool!

  41. Teneycke said that he well be "unapologetically patriotic". BEWARE this type of talk. One would do well to heed the words of those of history whom we so admire.

    Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.
    ~ Thomas Jefferson

    Patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels.
    ~ Samuel Johnson

    Patriotism is a kind of religion; it is the egg from which wars are hatched.
    ~ Guy de Maupassant

    Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism.
    ~ George Washington

    • Since when do Liberals admire Americans? Nice try poseur, but you hate liberty nearly as much as America, so you don't get to quote giants of liberty like Jefferson and Washington.

      Beware those who are patriotic, or so asocial anti-Canadian Liberal prescott would have you believe. How perverse is that?

      • Here is the perfect example of "an angry man" (bet he crows how 'patriotic' he is to all who will listen). "Bonko" is an a propos handle, amigo.

  42. What a bunch of whiney babies. Oh we are so much more sophisticated than the Americans. Oh we don't want ideologues screaming at each other.
    Listen to yourselves. You are a bunch of bombastic hyperventilating nut bars.
    Its called free enterprise and they will succeed or fail based on the quality of the product.
    No amount of Liberal spin on this board or others will change the fact this new station will hit the airwaves on Jan. 1/11 and we shall see.
    In the meantime the media is terrified to death that Kory will be able to achieve his objective.
    Now we need the CRTC to decouple the cable packages so we can pick and choose what we want to watch. No more CBC/CTV.

  43. Frankly, it would really be really educational – IF we had true broadcasting without any bias. At this time one, by watching the talking heads, can soon identify their political bent and therefore one doubts ! .

  44. 'Angry' applies to those opposed to the new channel like the frightened Don Newman, the guys creating the new channel are simply pointing out the obvious.

    It's about time a difference of opinion made it into the mainstream in Canada. The ferocity of opposition to new ideas is the best reason for those new ideas, left-wing liberal 'progressive' Canadians are very too narrow-minded and this new channel will help them the most.

  45. I hate the left leaning Canadian News organizations so much I cant wait to sign up just to get an alternative point of view for once. That goes for Canadian Magazines as well. What, are you all afraid of a little competition!

  46. Hello, this is a suposiTORY propaganda mac hine, nothing more. They probably will have their license tomorrow, Friday at the latest. God help us all.

  47. The premise of "hate" and "anger" in this article is ridiculous. There is a market that Quebecor intends to serve, and they expect to succeed. In fact, you can be sure that a lot of people will be very pleased about it. If critics like Gohier are so critical that they wish to ridicule this new venture, then that makes you wonder where the anger really lies.

  48. BOO! Be affraid leftards, be very afraid! I just read the following in the Hill times.

    Turmoil spreading in federal Liberal Party
    Jean Chrétien message on Ignatieff's leadership resonating loudly within Liberal ranks.
    By CHANTAL HÉBERT
    Published June 14, 2010 1 Comment
    "An increasingly irreconcilable difference of opinion between Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff and his most successful living predecessor, Jean Chrétien, is at the root of the spreading turmoil within the federal Liberal Party.

    While the two men share a strong belief that a Harper majority victory in the next election would have profound and—from their perspective—tragic consequences for the country, Chrétien is convinced that little short of a pre-election recasting of the progressive side of the federal landscape can ensure that Conservative rule does not become the new normal in Canada. "

    Seriously, how arrogant can Liberals be. No one but they can secure "Canada". They stink of entitlement!

    Read More here: http://www.thehilltimes.ca/page/view/hebert-06-14

  49. Yeh it just keeps getting better. When's the Liberal party wake. Will there be any booze?

    Liberals squander serial opportunities to regroup, rebuild
    Much of the buzz about an ill-defined union with the NDP is cover for the apparently endless Liberal leadership struggle.

    Jake Wright, The Hill Times
    "I'm here in the spotlight: Grit Leader Michael Ignatieff. Grits, now behaving as Ignatieff's worst enemies, have become PM Stephen Harper's best friends.

    Politicians have much in common with budgies: When not pecking at foes, they preen in the mirror. So no one should be surprised that Liberals are again squabbling among themselves over control of the party's top perch even as Stephen Harper wings away with the juiciest worm."

    Love it!

  50. Pierre Karl Peladeau is not my man

  51. Here are a few comments on this story, unfortunately not arranged in the best fashion ever.

    1- Péladeau compared his new network to a sort of English LCN (The News Network in French). LCN is an all-news channel with some opinion, mostly populist but not easily definable on a left-right axis.

    2- Sun News is designed to appeal primarily to a Western audience. Just search «Sun News It's Time» on Youtube and you'll have a pretty good idea of what I mean by that. For the ones with no time, let's just stay that audiences in Quebec or Ontario will not resonate so strongly with cowboy images, «Canada is the greatest place on Earth», 5-lane highways («we work hard» apparently conjures up that sort of pictures) and military sounding music, complete with drum rattling. I'm not denigrating that, just saying it caters to an audience which I am not part of. Business is about defining your target customers, and Peladeau's move appears as quite smart to me.

    3- One big test for the channel will be the way it portrays the CPC and Harper, as well as how it treats stories related to them. This is a legitimate concern in light of the chief executive's close proximity to the conservative party. If it becomes a conservative mouthpiece, something will have been lost in the way of media fairness, no matter what your beliefs are.

    4- All that rhetoric of «straight talk» sounds like an embrace of both populism and radicalization. I don't mind hearing conservative voices in the media. I'm all for it. What I don't want to see is the extinction of nuance and a new focus on confrontation of radical views. As Educ Alcool's campaigns have it, moderation tastes a lot sweeter. Politics, like all things human, are not an affair of black and white, but rather tend to decline themselves in infinitely varied shades of grey.

    So as of now, it's hard to say if it's good or not. Meanwhile, I let you all ponder on this.

  52. I'm looking forward to the Sunshine Girl

  53. One of the most Canadian of all things is mimicking exactly what has already happened in the USA. I don't think the head honchos of Quebecor are exactly the "two angriest men in Canada" — perhaps two of the most calculating. Just as Rupert Murdoch did to our south, they've discovered a market niche; it's composed of people who ARE genuinely angry but genuinely have no clue why. They feel under attack from Muslims, gays, the CBC — you name it — because already-rightwards-drifting media tells them to be so. Fuelling these irrational outpourings of fear and loathing is Quebecor's meal ticket; at least it appeared so to me last time I wasted my time reading one of their papers.

    And love the comments about our supposedly "socialist media" here in Canada! Childish name-calling only gets worse than this when the dreaded "Nazi" word is petulantly carted out. Is Britain socialist because it has the BBC?

    Come on, CBC is pretty lacklustre and often patronizing, but socialist? We don't live in a socialist country, hence CBC could hardly be part of some socialist state apparatus, could it? Furthermore last time I checked, CBC was gladly advancing the usual business agenda by placing commercials every ten minutes in the majority of its shows.

    • Ugh, the media here is liberal biased, get over it. You liberals will never admit to it though because that would mean admitting you're wrong. And that's something liberals never do but yet always should be doing.

    • Just to note, I put absolutely no effort in that response. I won't even call it a response. It's just that when you're on the left, you really can't see how liberally biased the media is. Once you step over to the right, it becomes clear as day when identifying what the media is. Jon Stewart, for example. Or even Colbert. When I thought I was a liberal, I thought they were centrist, though probably slightly left leaning. Then once I realized I was actually conservative, I was able to look at them in a different light and noticed that their bias was almost always liberal. They can try to hide it, but overall, they just don't.

      It just becomes easier to identify the slant of the media, both left and right, once you're conservative.

      • Would you say it is equally the same from this conservative viewpoint with respect to right wing news. You think it's pretty centrist, but it`s actually far right? Speaking of trying to hide it, doesn't "straight talk" sound exactly like it should be centrist, but in fact is far right wing? So, my point is that both sides see their side as being in the middle, and the other as a nut, but both are wrong( and right?) Clearly we suck, each and every one of us. I wish we could separate from each other. You and your everything is black or white, and me, and my everything is relative, just go opposite ways and never come back.

        • I'm not going to say right-wing news is centrist…

          I'm only going to say right-wing news is right and yes, centrist or left is wrong.

    • One more thing: we are under attack by some Muslims at least. That whole jihad thing, ya know?

  54. They should rethink the name Sun News has the internet tied up and youtube searches defaults to Sun News not Sun TV News.

  55. Ok, let me get this straight.

    Under the Conservatives' all-encompassing, whiter-than-white, best thing since sliced bread Accountability Act, a minister's aide cannot leave Government and then find a job as a lobbyist, but he or she can go and run a potentially mandatory national news channel? Really?? Lobbying for kids or seniors or hospitals is bad, but heading up a news channel is a-ok, all is good, move on there's nothing to see here???

    Wow. Just… wow.

    • Please quote the part of the ACC ACT that prohibits lobbying on behalf of kids or hospitals.

      • This would entail multiple links to various acts, and frankly, I can't figure out how to do this neatly in this comment section. You would want to check out paragraph 10.11 of the FedAA here: http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publicat… and then check out the relevant paragraphs to which it refers.

        Basically: no lobbying, of any kind for anyone, including kids and hospitals (which I admittedly mentioned for shock value, but it's nevertheless true), for 5 years after leaving position for a designated public office holder. And under the FedAA, Kory is a DPOH.

  56. What did Pierre Karl Péladeau or Kory Teneycke say that is 'angry' exactly? If you say that you don't like flying, for example, that is your opinion – it doesn't make you 'angry'. Saying that they don't like socialist, left-wing tv is an opinion. Not liking something does not make you 'angry' by default. Well, I guess unless you happen to be one of those awful white guys who wear a tie and have a credit card.

    • Well, you see, according to left-liberal doctrine, all conservatives are by definition angry white males (cf. Frank Graves's pronouncement to the effect that all people in Alberta are angry white males). Therefore, if you are a pair of white males announcing and promoting a proposed right-of-centre news channel, you must ipso facto be angry too.

  57. It will be quite refreshing to see something reported from a different (honest) perspective. What does CBC actually provide anyway?

    On September 11th – CBC shows
    Farenheit 911
    Documentaries stating that 911 was an inside job
    Yep…no skewed reporting there.

    I'm still waiting for them to speak in depth about the Fraud of Global Warming. I"m sure the new channel will do that.

    STill waiting for CBC to have a show confessing that AL GORE is full of crap, and that his "documentary" is about as truthful as Libby Davies denying she's an anti-semite.

    The new channel should provide some welcome relief.

  58. Every time I hear about this abomination, this intellectual abortion, I kinda throw up in my mouth a little bit.

    "unapologetically patriotic" – exactly the sort of disgusting nationalistic, goosestepping that makes the USA the goonsquad to every ReichWing freak with an axe to grind.

    There is a reason Canadians have been historically disgusted with nationalistic jingoism & propaganda: its disgusting & leads to massive GroupThink. The kind of GroupThink that creates political & ideological gulags, 'Final Solutions', & exterminations.

    That Canada's Conservative Party would be a party to this horrorshow sends up massive smoke signals.

    This Party isn't interested in Canada: they're interested in turning Canada into the next "US Foreign Policy" WHINSEC-enabled hell-hole like Honduras, Columbia or Saipan for their personal benefits.

    Didn't Fox News cause *enough* misery & destruction South of the Border?
    That they're responsible for a massive amount of the deregulations & propaganda & extremist hatred that *fueled* the current mess in the USA… tells me that these creeps aren't doing this 'for Canadians'.

    They're doing this for the multi-national billionaires that destroyed the North American economy & social ethical standards.

    They're selling Canadian citizens & sovereignty for the *crumbs* that these corrupt billionaires flick off the table in their direction.

    Canadians will end up living in a vassal state, railing against their next door neighbours, wondering why all the money moved to Switzerland & we're living in a toxic cesspool of industrial tailings.

    "patriotic" you're not fooling us, Ailes, Harper & Quebecor!
    you're not "patriots": you're propagandists.

    Himmler would have been proud of you.

    • Fox News caused the 'misery and destruction of America'? Hyperbole much?

      In my opinion the CBC, Liberal & NDP parties caused the misery and destruction of Canada.

    • meh. there's not enough interesting political news here to make a good show.

      and yes, after having lived in the USA myself and then back to Canada, the bias of the news here is very apparent. And it is left-leaning. While I was never a fan of Fox news, it will be interesting to get another perspective.

  59. so you'd *rather* have a society that models ugly, xenophobic & hate-filled propaganda that supports corporate 'personhood' over the rights of the human being?

    oh, that's just so much better!!

    *gong*

    go ahead, watch your Glenn Beck for a while & see what you're gonna get for yourselves!
    Himmler would be so proud of you!

  60. The content of Fox News North would be very tame indeed, in comparison to the hate being spewed by Arabic Al Jazerra and other Middle Eastern broadcasters – which are allowed to be broadcasted in Canada by the CRTC.

  61. Fox News in Canada? Don't we have enough stupidity?!