The enrollment controversy* - Macleans.ca
 

The enrollment controversy*

Worries that efforts in the U.S. to limit enrollment of Asian students in top universities may migrate to Canada
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When Alexandra and her friend Rachel, both graduates of Toronto’s Havergal College, an all-girls private school, were deciding which university to go to, they didn’t even bother considering the University of Toronto. “The only people from our school who went to U of T were Asian,” explains Alexandra, a second-year student who looks like a girl from an Aritzia billboard. “All the white kids,” she says, “go to Queen’s, Western and McGill.”

Alexandra eventually chose the University of Western Ontario. Her younger brother, now a high school senior deciding where he’d like to go, will head “either east, west or to McGill”—unusual academic options, but in keeping with what he wants from his university experience. “East would suit him because it’s chill, out west he could be a ski bum,” says Alexandra, who explains her little brother wants to study hard, but is also looking for a good time—which rules out U of T, a school with an academic reputation that can be a bit of a killjoy.

Or, as Alexandra puts it—she asked that her real name not be used in this article, and broached the topic of race at universities hesitantly—a “reputation of being Asian.”

Discussing the role that race plays in the self-selecting communities that more and more characterize university campuses makes many people uncomfortable. Still, an “Asian” school has come to mean one that is so academically focused that some students feel they can no longer compete or have fun. Indeed, Rachel, Alexandra and her brother belong to a growing cohort of student that’s eschewing some big-name schools over perceptions that they’re “too Asian.” It’s a term being used in some U.S. academic circles to describe a phenomenon that’s become such a cause for concern to university admissions officers and high school guidance counsellors that several elite universities to the south have faced scandals in recent years over limiting Asian applicants and keeping the numbers of white students artificially high.

Although university administrators here are loath to discuss the issue, students talk about it all the time. “Too Asian” is not about racism, say students like Alexandra: many white students simply believe that competing with Asians—both Asian Canadians and international students—requires a sacrifice of time and freedom they’re not willing to make. They complain that they can’t compete for spots in the best schools and can’t party as much as they’d like (too bad for them, most will say). Asian kids, meanwhile, say they are resented for taking the spots of white kids. “At graduation a Canadian—i.e. ‘white’—mother told me that I’m the reason her son didn’t get a space in university and that all the immigrants in the country are taking up university spots,” says Frankie Mao, a 22-year-old arts student at the University of British Columbia. “I knew it was wrong, being generalized in this category,” says Mao, “but f–k, I worked hard for it.”

That Asian students work harder is a fact born out by hard data. They tend to be strivers, high achievers and single-minded in their approach to university. Stephen Hsu, a physics prof at the University of Oregon who has written about the often subtle forms of discrimination faced by Asian-American university applicants, describes them as doing “disproportionately well—they tend to have high SAT scores, good grades in high school, and a lot of them really want to go to top universities.” In Canada, say Canadian high school guidance counsellors, that means the top-tier post-secondary institutions with international profiles specializing in math, science and business: U of T, UBC and the University of Waterloo. White students, by contrast, are more likely to choose universities and build their school lives around social interaction, athletics and self-actualization—and, yes, alcohol. When the two styles collide, the result is separation rather than integration.

The dilemma is this: Canadian institutions operate as pure meritocracies when it comes to admissions, and admirably so. Privately, however, many in the education community worry that universities risk becoming too skewed one way, changing campus life—a debate that’s been more or less out in the open in the U.S. for years but remains muted here. And that puts Canadian universities in a quandary. If they openly address the issue of race they expose themselves to criticisms that they are profiling and committing an injustice. If they don’t, Canada’s universities, far from the cultural mosaics they’re supposed to be—oases of dialogue, mutual understanding and diversity—risk becoming places of many solitudes, deserts of non-communication. It’s a tough question to have to think about.

Asian-Canadian students are far more likely to talk about and assert their ethnic identities than white students. “I’m Asian,” says 21-year-old Susie Su, a third-year student at UBC’s Sauder School of Business. “I do have traditional Asian parents. I feel the pressure of finding a good job and raising a good family.” That pressure helps shape more than just the way Su handles study and school assignments; it shapes the way she interacts with her colleagues. “If I feel like it’s going to be an event where it’s all white people, I probably wouldn’t want to go,” she says. “There’s a lot of just drinking. It’s not that I don’t like white people. But you tend to hang out with people of the same race.”

Catherine Costigan, a psychology assistant prof at the University of Victoria, says it’s unsurprising that Asian students are segregated from “mainstream” campus life. She cites studies that show Chinese youth are bullied more than their non-Asian peers. As a so-called “model minority,” they are more frequently targeted because of being “too smart” and “teachers’ pets.” To counter peer ostracism and resentment, Costigan says Chinese students reaffirm their ethnicity.

The value of education has been drilled into Asian students by their parents, likely for cultural and socio-economic reasons. “It’s often described that Asians are the new Jews,” says Jon Reider, director of college counselling at San Francisco University High School and a former Stanford University admissions officer. “That in the face of discrimination, what you do is you study. And there’s a long tradition in Chinese culture, for example, going back to Confucius, of social mobility based on merit.”

*This article was originally titled “‘Too Asian’?” For our response to the controversy it has generated, click here.

Demographics contribute to the high degree of academic success among Asian-Canadian students. “Our highly selective immigration process means that we get many highly educated parents, so they have similar aspirations for their children,” says Robert Sweet, a retired Lakehead University education prof who has studied the parenting styles of immigrants as they relate to education. Sweet’s latest study, “Post-high school pathways of immigrant youth,” released last month, found that more than 70 per cent of students in the Toronto District School Board who immigrated from East Asia went on to university, compared to 52 per cent of Europeans, the next highest group, and 12 per cent of Caribbean, the lowest. This is in contrast to English-speaking Toronto students born in Canada—of which just 42 per cent confirmed admission to university.

Diane Bondy, a recently retired Ottawa-area guidance counsellor, notes that by the end of her 20-year career, competition among some Asian parents had reached a fever pitch. “Asian parents do their homework and the students are going to U of T or they’re going to Queen’s,” says Bondy, who points out that “Asians get more support from their parents financially and academically.” She also observed that the focus on academics was often to the exclusion of social interaction. “The kids were getting 98 per cent but they didn’t have other skills,” she says. “Their parents would come in and write in the resumé letters that they were in clubs. But the kids weren’t able to do anything in those clubs because they were academically focused.”

Students can carry that narrow scope into university, where they risk alienating their more fun-loving peers. The division is perhaps most extreme at Waterloo, where students have dubbed the MC and DC buildings—the Mathematics & Computer Building and the William G. Davis Computer Research Centre, respectively—“mainland China” and “downtown China,” and where some students told Maclean’s they can go for days without speaking English. Writes one Waterloo mathematics graduate on an online forum: “I once had a tutorial session for the whole class where the TA got frustrated with speaking English and started giving the answer in Mandarin. A lot of the class understood his answer.”

“My dad said if you don’t go into engineering, I won’t pay your tuition,” says Jason Yin, a Taiwanese software engineering student at Waterloo. “They are very traditional. They believe school is about work, studying, go home and studying some more.” Hard-studying Waterloo lends itself particularly to those goals. “We had a problem getting students out of their bedrooms,” says Nikki Best, a former residence don who sits on Waterloo’s student government, who explains they “didn’t want to get behind in their grades because of coming out to social events.”

That’s not to say Asian students form any sort of monolithic presence on Canadian campuses. “The mainland China group tends to stick together,” says Anthony Wong, 19, a Waterloo software engineering student. “We can talk to them,” says Jonathan Ing, also 19 and in Waterloo’s software engineering program, “but we don’t mingle.” Complains Waterloo student Simon Wang, a Chinese national who is frustrated by the segregation at Waterloo: “Why bother to come to Canada and pay five times as much to speak Chinese?” Meanwhile, Calgarian Joyce Chau identifies as “completely whitewashed,” a “banana”: “I look Asian but I’m white in all other respects.” Chau, a 19-year-old UBC business student, lived in residence her first year, where she met the majority of her (white) friends. “It’s harder to integrate into a group with Asians—you may or may not get introduced,” says Chau, who accepts the segregation as just “part of the university experience.”

Such balkanization is reflected in official student organizations: there is little Asian representation on student government, campus newspapers or college radio stations. At UBC, where the student body is roughly 40 per cent Asian, not one Asian sits on the student executive. Same goes for Waterloo. Asian students do, however, participate in organizations beyond the university mainstream, and long-standing cultural clubs function as a sort of ad hoc government. “After you graduate you won’t care about student government, but you’ll care about your club,” says Stan He, president of the Dragon Seed Connection, an on-campus Chinese club with over 300 members. (His business cards feature both dragon and robot motifs.) The Dragon Seed offers its members social functions, tutoring help, volunteer opportunities, poker and mah-jong tournaments, and special holiday parties—including at Halloween and Christmas. It even has an exclusive partnership with Solid Entertainment, a promotions and events-planning company that sponsors massive fundraising events and gives Dragon Seed exclusive selling rights on campus. He says that the dozen or so Asian clubs at UBC serve well over 4,000 students and cater to the whole spectrum of cultural identification—from “whitewashed” to “Honger,” a once-pejorative term now adopted by students with Hong Kong backgrounds. The Dragon Seed lies somewhere in between—“We’re the middle ground,” He says. “We have international students, but we all speak English.”

Or take the Chinese Varsity Club. With upwards of 500 members, it’s the largest student social club at UBC. The executives say they’ve captured a niche market: Chinese commuter students from the outlying Richmond, Burnaby and North Vancouver communities who hope to find a social network at the big school. “Students from high school already hear about us from older brothers and sisters,” says Peter Yang, the 21-year-old accounting student who is the club’s VP external. “You want to break out of the cycle of studying and being lonely,” says Brian Cheung, its president.

The impact of high admissions rates for Asian students has been an issue for years in the U.S., where high school guidance counsellors have come to accept that it’s just more difficult to sell their Asian applicants to elite colleges. In 2006, at its annual meeting, the National Association for College Admission Counseling explored the issue in an expert panel discussion called “Too Asian?” One panellist, Rachel Cederberg—an Asian-American then working as an admissions official at Colorado College—described fellow admissions officers complaining of “yet another Asian student who wants to major in math and science and who plays the violin.” A Boston Globe article early this year asked, “Do colleges redline Asian-Americans?” and concluded there’s likely an “Asian ceiling” at elite U.S. universities. After California passed Proposition 209 in 1996 forbidding affirmative action in the state’s public dealings, Asians soared to 40 per cent of the population at public universities, even though they make up just 13 per cent of state residents. And U.S. studies suggest Ivy League schools have taken the issue of Asian academic prowess so seriously that they’ve operated with secret quotas for decades to maintain their WASP credentials.

In his 2009 book No Longer Separate, Not Yet Equal, Princeton University sociologist Thomas Espenshade surveyed 10 elite U.S. universities and found that Asian applicants needed an extra 140 points on their SAT scores to be on equal footing with white applicants. Scandals over such unfair admissions practices have surfaced in recent years at Stanford, Harvard University, the University of California at Berkeley and elsewhere. Hsu, the Oregon physicist, draws a comparison between Asian-Americans and Jewish students who began arriving at the Ivy League in the first half of the last century. “You can find well-documented internal discussions at places like Harvard and Yale and Princeton about why we shouldn’t admit these people, they’re working so hard and they’re so obviously ambitious, but we want to keep our WASP pedigree here.”

To quell the influx of Jewish students, Ivy League schools abandoned their meritocratic admissions processes in favour of one that focused on the details of an applicant’s private life—questions about race, religion, even about the maiden name of an applicant’s mother. Schools also began looking at such intangibles as character, personality and leadership potential. Canadian universities, apart from highly competitive professional programs and faculties, don’t quiz applicants the same way, and rely entirely on transcripts. Likely that is a good thing. And yet, that meritocratic process results, especially in Canada’s elite university programs, in a concentration of Asian students.

The upshot is that race is defining Canadian university campuses in a way it did not 25 years ago. Diversity has enriched these schools, but it has also put them at risk of being increasingly fractured along ethnic lines. It’s a superficial form of multiculturalism that is expressed in the main through segregated, self-selecting, discrete communities. It would behoove the leadership of our universities to recognize these issues and take them seriously. And yet, that’s exactly what’s not happening. Indeed, discussions with Canada’s top university presidents reveal for the most part that they are in a state of denial.

“This is a non-issue,” wrote U of T president David Naylor in an email. “We’ve never had a student complain about this. In fact, this is a false stereotype, as we know that Asian students are fully engaged in extracurricular activities. So the whole concept is false.”

As Cheryl Misak, the U of T’s VP and provost, puts it: “We have a properly diverse mix, with no particular group extra prominent—we’re the rainbow nation and we’ve got every sort of student and everyone is on merit.” Waterloo president Feridun Hamdullahpur echoes a similar sentiment. “There is a great tendency in our society to learn more about other nations and other cultures,” he says. “Universities are the hotbed of these kind of activities. If you want to see more economic and political diversity, I think they star.”

These positions arguably represent a missed opportunity. Universities have the potential of establishing real cultural change. It makes sense that the head of the Canadian university with perhaps the highest number of Asian students is the most candid and the most concerned. Indeed, Stephen Toope has, since his arrival in 2006 as UBC president, made the issue central to his agenda—including outreach and newspaper op-ed pieces touting the importance of making the university campus a meeting place not only of diversity but also of dialogue.

Among Canadian universities, UBC is one of the few institutions that publishes the ethnic makeup of its student body. Toope says that the university’s Asian student population is not “widely out of whack with the community,” although the stats tell a slightly different story. According to a 2009 UBC report on direct undergraduate entrants, 43 per cent of its students self-identify as ethnically Chinese, Korean or Japanese, as compared to 38 per cent who self-identify as white. Although Vancouver is a richly diverse city, according to data from the 2006 census, just 21.5 per cent of its residents identify as a Chinese, Korean or Japanese visible minority.

Toope says drawing the various communities present on Canadian campuses into a common medium can be challenging. “Across Canada it isn’t always the case that you’re seeing as much engagement from the new communities as perhaps we should,” he says. Toope uses the experience of Turkish immigrants in Germany as a cautionary tale—“there are groups that never find a way to participate in the broader community.” Such circumstances persist precisely because the issue of race is not attacked head on. “I don’t want to pretend that just because you have people from different backgrounds they’re going to interact—they’re not,” Toope says. “We have to actually create mechanisms, programs and opportunities for people to interact. A university is one of the places that has the greatest capacity to work through demographic change.”

Toope points us in the right direction. It’s unfair to change the meritocratic entry system, so all universities can do—all they should do—is encourage groups to mingle. Though it’s true that universities—U of T and Waterloo included—do have diversity programs and policies for students, newer, fresher ways are needed to help pry the ethnic ghettos open so everyone hangs out together. Or at least they have the chance to. The white kids may not find it’s too Asian after all. Alexandra, who chose to go to Western for the party scene, found she “hated being away from home” and moved back to Toronto. In retrospect, she didn’t like the vibe. “Some people just want to drink 23 hours a day.” Alexandra says she still has friends at Western who live in an “all-blond house” and are “stick thin.” Rachel, Alexandra’s friend, says Western suits them—“they work hard, get good grades, then slap on their clubbing clothes.” But it didn’t suit Alexandra. She now studies at U of T.
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The enrollment controversy*

  1. "Post-high school pathways of immigrant youth,…found that more than 70 per cent of students in the Toronto District School Board who immigrated from East Asia went on to university, compared to 52 per cent of Europeans, the next highest group, and 12 per cent of Caribbean, the lowest. "

    This seems to be directly correlated to crime statistics too. Is this such a bad thing that Asian parents are expecting their children strive for the best?

    • Good questions to ask!!

    • what happened to South Asia?

    • Getting 98% in every subject misses the point of "an education". In society it is not the brainiest that get the power sceptre. It is those who have enough brains to figure out how to access power and keep it. The parents of these students have missed the boat – pardon the pun. I feel bad for them and for the country.

      I was one of these people 40 years ago – and am not Asian. What it brought me was a lack of political skills in social groups that have plagued me every since then. These kids are headed in the same direction. That is a missed opportunity for the universities to "broaden" the perspective of these kids.

      I bet that these top Asian students are headed for their big shake down too.

    • While this is a stupid comment… it may sadly be true sooner then we think… it's a known fact that white people are not reproducing in sustainable numbers… like it or not the Chinese have us beat when it comes to numbers.. what will happen when China runs out of resources? Canada is awash in natural resources and has a tiny fraction of the world's population… think the premise of a Chinese invasion will never happen? I guarantee you this guy isn't the only one in China that thinks like this… the all mighty Communist Chinese leaders are doubt very well aware of this sentiment, they are just playing their cards slowly… building up resources so to speak… China has a standing army over a million strong…. Canada has….. nothing? hmmm….

      • It;s not that white people aren't reproducing enough, it's that chinese people reproduce in ridiculous amounts!

        • absolutely wrong, look at the stats.

      • Then why do they come to study here? Why not study in japan or an asian country with a similar race??

    • yeah those stupid white people sure have never created anything innovative over the last hundred years… us morons

    • what's a real Canadian? white? there are lots of Asians (and other visible minorities) who have been here since the laste 1800's early 1900's. There are also lots of white resident who were born in countries such as UK or US but immigrated to Canada later in their life, maybe as late as the 2000's. I ask you: WHO IS THE REAL CANADIAN HERE?

      • Real Canadians are probably the Indigenous people of Canada that were here before the Europeans came over and essentially stripped the land from them (i.e Native tribes and such). Most people are too ignorant to realize this fact…sad but true

        • Then they don’t deserve universities if you think that way, since universities were built by white people. Everyone keeps saying the indigenous are the real Canadians, but it was white people who built North America into advanced, first world countries. If they never came to North America, there would be no appeal in Canada (won’t exist) because it would still be harbored by indigenous and living in a relatively primitive age compared to the rest of the world. They couldn’t adapt to a changing world, so they got wiped out. It’s a fact of life, and it’s been this way since the beginning of time.

          • you are being ridiculous, Mike!! How could you make such a statement of ‘adaptation’ and ‘wiped out’ in knowing nothing about adaptation and fitness? Your argument is even equivalent to the Nazi’s claim about races.. I cannot believe more modern more civilized ‘first world’ people saying things like this!! 

          • Testing

    • Canadian : Asina and Euro, and Africa.///

    • Many Europeans join the trades, go to college
      European parents are more open minded towards their childrens goals.  
      Asians are very narrow minded when it comes to career goals for their children.

  2. The entire premise of the article is just to stir racial prejudice.
    The Media, routinely complains about how minority communities, need more help, are involved in gangs, violence and fail to assimilate.
    Now the asian groups assimilate quite well and outperform white Canadian students, and so Macleans runs to their rescue and focuses on them?

    This is ridiculous, if they want to work hard, make money, pay their taxes, let them! Who are we to stop them for doing so?
    My God! What have we come to?
    Are we afraid of immigrants adopting our values and working hard.

    • This article is 100% about racism. Canada is a multicultural country, every student no matter white or Asian, can choose the university they want to go. If they don't work hard enough to get to University, this is their own choice. The world has been changing, does anyone remember that Obama advised teenagers to reduce time on video games and concentrate on their studies? Everyone needs to work hard to compete with each other. Does Canadian also work hard to compete with other countries, too? Otherwise, we all lose our jobs.

      • this article is about cross-cultural assimilation challenges, possible solutions, and (of course) warnings.

        racism would be if there were practices in place to either measure (and reward), or actively (by will or regulation) aim for a specific proportionality of students based on ethnicity.

        personally, i think the biggest danger is it makes the economy less nimble and organic if such a large percentage of students are graduating with essentially a groupthink.

        a lot of folks dont realize that in a well-developed country, it is possible to live a very comfortable life of harmony, fulfillment, and reward with any profession that you sincerely work at. despite economic cycles. you dont have to kill yourself for a few dollars more…its not worth it. its not a race.

        you only have to look at folks that have broken away from their group's groupthink.

        • It`s not a race?? Well, tell that to the rest of the world, you loser… Tell that to the 2 billions up and coming Indians and Chinese…Pls read the 'World is Flat' before you open type !

        • I'm sorry, so how is having 40% Asian more prone to producing groupthink than having 40% WASPS in universities?
          No one would be complaining about universities being "too white".
          Killing yourself for a few dollars more? How about killing yourself for new technological developments? Medical developments?

          • Technology will be the end of us. The world needs disease because it is so over-populated! Just live a simple, natural life; greed is what will kill us, and technology is greed.

        • You could say Japan and Korea are country-level examples of groupthink. They've done very well by it.

          • Ever been to Japan or Korea? I lived in Japan in high school and I can tell you, it's not the glorious tech-savvy groupthink-ing dynamo it might be thought of as.

            Because of groupthink, the CEO of Sony had to fight, tooth and nail, to release the Sony Walkman back in the 80s, because the rest of his "group" of supposedly smart presidents and office types said that it was too risky and would probably flop.

            It's the same reason why soooo many Japanese and Korean children really do want to learn English, but don't learn it to near the extent of those in other countries. They are too afraid to take any risks. If one is wrong, it is ridicule.

          • TBC, I'm well aware of the cultural limitations in many Asian countries of not wanting to be the nail that gets pounded down. My point, is that despite that, the standard of living in Japan and Korea is very high, that groupthink isn't such a serious problem as to relegate a country to poverty and international obscurity.

          • For a moment, I thought you were talking about Hollywood executives with their BAD movies and all those bankruptcies and business failures in North America.

            You want me to talk about that? 1 trillion times more messed-up than Japan!!!

        • very well said

        • Groupthink? Are you implying that all Asians at Canadian universities think alike?

          I think that it makes the economy "less nimble and organic" if the brightest and most hardworking students are not allowed to climb to the top based on merit!

          Really, I have no idea what you're trying to say in this comment. It makes no sense.

      • That is meritocracy …That is the core principle of democracy, you can be and will achieve whatever you want, as long as you strive for it! If not, what`s the difference between apartheid and all other race-based caste systems that the West had tried so hard to champion against?? The traffic flows both ways and not only in your favor! If you can`t (or not willing to) compete, then stay on the sidelines and watch quietly…Losers!

      • Stopping immigration will only mean that you are afraid of what Chinese people are capable of doing. This whole world is a bug competition of itself. If you study hard, then you get to go to high-recognition schools. If you dont, then that is your lost. When it comes to university admission, it is mainly base on grades. Race is not involved. If there is a large population of Chinese people who are 'smart' becuase they sacrifice their time and devoted thier time to studying, then they will be admitted to an university.

        For people who say that there is "too many asians," they are just blaming race for their own misfortunes.

        • I'm a student at uvic – profs give ESL students "extra room for spelling and grammar errors" on assignments and exams, which skews the grading. Why do they have to study hard in canada? Can they not study just as hard in their own country? FIne, move to canada, but then BE Canadian. IE speak french or english. Canadian Citizenships are distributed as bonuses and incentives in businesses in China. Citizenship here should be for people who earn it and appreciate it.

          • I stopped reading after you said you went to UVic.

          • Is Uvic not "asian" enough for you?

          • Competition is harder there. If they come here, then what's not to say they believe education is better here? What have YOU done to "earn" your citizenship? If a citizenship was an incentive or bonus, then people have to work hard to get one. Why not have hard working, talented, intelligent individuals be a part of this country?

            Also, a student of University of Victoria? Really? You checked yourself into the College of Dropouts the moment you criticized people for having terrible spelling and grammar when YOU have terrible spelling and grammar yourself.

          • Exactly my point: "part" of this country!? Do you mean pockets that they have inserted into this country that have absolutely nothing to do with Canadian culture? And I'm so terribly sorry for working hard to pay for a more than decent education at one of the top rated schools in Canada. You're so quick to defend poor, helpless Asians, meanwhile, you're trying to make me feel bad about not being one of these "white, drunken slackers…" and actually being productive. Get a life. Citizenships shouldn't be handed out; my Grandparents worked hard to get here, and built a life for our family when they did. I volunteer in my community, I work, I pay tax, I contribute to society, and I appreciate my country (minus people like you) every day – that is how I earn my citizenship.

          • You amuse me. Did I even remotely say citizenships are being handed out? Even individuals that have to get citizenship through an incentive have to work their way to get it. Who says Universities HAVE to accept applicants who are citizens? People are free to study at wherever they please. People enroll in universities for education, not for citizenship or to be a part of Canadian culture. Sure, you can rant about certain TA's or Professors that have poor English but then you have to realize they were hired for a reason. I can't believe you have the gall to complain about people who just so happened to study harder than you. I don't care how hard you work, because there will always be someone who is working harder than you or doing more than you.

            What do you believe is Canadian Culture? Last I checked, one of the best aspects of Canadian Culture is that we are a Cultural Mosaic.

            So you volunteer, pay taxes, and contribute in whatever you feel it is you are contributing to your society. Does this mean you've earned your citizenship? I don't think so. Honey, you can tell me to get a life, but you need to get over yourself. You aren't entitled to anything, and you mentioned your university as a point proves you believe you are. You're not the only one who has worked hard, and you overall, UVic can't even make the top 10 in overall rankings.

          • 1. I never complained about TAs or profs. I complained that ESL STUDENTS are marked easier BY profs.
            2. Why are ESL profs hired? Hmm… maybe because Canada favours "visible minorities"
            3. Canadian culture consists of many things…. not including ignoring the languages, traditions..etc. (How embarrassing for you that I need to explain that)
            4.There are so many people coming over here for school because they have overpopulated their own living space, and now need to use canada's resources
            4. Don't call me Honey. I'm not your Honey. I know you're probably a pathetic old lonely person who can't figure out where he went wrong in life, but sexually harassing young women on the internet is not a good choice for you.
            5. As a Canadian citizen, I am free to express my opinion, and I am free to take pride in my life and my education without being patronized by online sexual predators.
            So take my advice: turn off the TV, drain the rest of your beverage down the sink, and go cry away your life's worth of regret and sorrow. Tomorrow is a new day, Guest. I'm so sorry you feel so sad about your life. Good luck to you!

          • Why are ESL profs hired? So everyone gets a fair chance to understand and gain knowledge. And people come to Canada to study because they recognize the high education value that our schools hold, not because it is overpopulated which in fact, is a compliment for our nation. If we didn't have immigrants coming to Canada and wanting to live here then that would be a terrible sign that this country sucks.

          • #4 and 5, Claire, stick to the subject at hand, there's no need to be low balling any commenters and assuming they're a sexual predator. This to provide some food for thought for Canadians, regardless of skin colour.

          • Why are ESL TAs hired? I tell you why they are hired. They are hired not because they aren't proficient enough in English, but because they have extraordinary knowledge in their subject matter. Language is only a communication tool. They simply have better brain than you.

          • Dear Guest,

            They simply have better brain than you? I tell you why they are hired? Do you want to rephrase that after checking with your electronic translating device? and Language is only a communication tool? Are you joking? Communication is pretty effing important in a LEARNING environment. Go home.

          • Yes, you tell those ESL TAs go home, then you run into trouble. I tell you why, I attend U of T. TAs especially from Physics, Chemistry and Math departments are almost all VISA students. Do you seriously know why? Why these department can't find any "real Canadian" whom in your mind speak perfect English? Because they have hard time finding. That is the answer. These programs are simply way too tough for your "real Canadians" . Few people want to study those subjects and many of your t "real Canadians" can't even graduate.

            Also you mentioned communication. Seriously, if you are not in an liberal arts program you don't give a eff how good TAs can speak English. In fact, the only words TAs would say in a math tutorial are probably: since, this and that, therefore this and that. Majorities these communications take place in form of the universal NUMBERS and SYMBOLS.

            Last, I assure you that despite the fact that those TAs don't speak English as fluent as you, they write pretty damn good papers. I am sure they have published more papers on scientific journals than you have

          • Kyle.

            You tell those ESL TAs to go home? No they would go to United States instead. Good luck trying to keep some of the brightest minds on Earth to work for your country.

          • You are both retards. I was saying "go home" to guest,, meaning shut up. Don't reply to something unless you can read it properly.

          • I also attend UVic and I'm "white". I am ashamed of you and ashamed that you mentioned our school to prove your point.

          • Go Guest Go! Your points are valid. Sometimes it's not worthwhile trying to respond to aggressive commenters who monopolize the dialogue by being hostile and loud. Ignorance doesn't listen.

            Last time I checked Claire, you don't need to do anything to "earn" your Canadian citizenship if you're born here.

            If you believe that professors are markings papers unfairly, then go to your faculty administrators and file a complaint. If you haven't made that effort yet, then don't complain.

            There's no need to direct hostility at strangers on a comments forum just because they have a counter-view. Surely university has taught you to be civil and articulate with your argumentation.

            Sincerely,
            "poor, helpless Asian"

          • Guest, you are an idiot, if only for the reason that you criticize Claire for having poor grammar and spelling. I read her post – there isn't one mistake.

            PS – 'ad hominem', look it up. The cheapest and least intelligent form a debate can take…and my calling you an idiot doesn't apply as its a factual observation.

          • correction: "as IT'S a factual observation"…

          • In all fairness it is quite annoying to be in an English class at U of T with a handful of students who can barely read. I think the problem is with the way international students are hunted by universities in general. And in Asia in particular there has been a recent scandal of forging qualification by “educational coaches” that falsify language requirements and skew grades in order to get spots in prestigious Western Universities. So let’s not dismiss the issue out of hand as racist, there are legitimate concerns which come about due to deeply rooted institutional issues in the system. Yes there are many who work hard, but even back int eh 1970s my father in an MBA program at St George told me that he had to trasnfer to the MIssisauga campus because his whole class couldn’t speak English and he had noone to work with, so we really shouldn’t be flippant about the problems in higher educatione specially when it comes to the many scandals involving international students. Should we blame all foreign students int he same boat? Of course not, blame is shared in many different areas, the university itself, the ruthless educational coaches, and a cuthtroat educational culture, coupled with a recession.

          • oh boy . i knew UVIc was a hick university but that comment just proves it.

            claire, you might want to keep your mouth shut. you're an embarrassment to you're school.

          • And you are so much better for coming on here and posting useless comments like this. At least Claire was stating her opinions of the current issue at hand. She is entitled to her opinion, it is a free country. (Is it? I'm not so sure anymore.)

          • No it isn't a free country. Try saying something about Jews or blacks and see what happens. But of course if something bad is said about Asians then it is ok.

          • She’s entitled to her own opinion just as you are.

          • As a Chinese Canadian, I actually kind of agree with you. I don't think Asians need any special treatment – if you're aspiring to go to the top universities, you should be able to do so, in English or French, and compete at the same level as everyone else. When I applied for university I was asked to check a box indicating that I was a "visible minority". I'm not sure if they still do this. Sorry, but I don't need a hand up, from the government or from anyone else. If I can't get there on my own merit, I'd rather not get there at all.

            That said, your comments about citizenship being for people who earn it and appreciate it? Well, I have citizenship because I was born in Canada, just like you. I didn't earn it, and neither did you. But I pay my taxes, work hard to give back to my community, and appreciate it just as much as you do.

          • Clearly this issue is about ESL students – people who come from other countries to use up educational resources (with special treatment) and then return to China. I agree with your fist comment, but the second one… I think you're just looking for an argument. Stick with the issue at hand, "CBC Chica".

          • use up education resources? they are paying thrice the amount of fee to study as international students. Though I don't agree with getting handicaps, I think in subjects that do not require perfect English, the weightage of marks should represent that.

          • Technically they pay the same. The Canadian government pays a portion of the tuition of Canadian students. As international students they are not entitled to this.

          • Actually, international students are cash-cows to the universities for paying so much while the marginal cost is next to nothing.

            About Canadian government pays a portion of the tuition of Canadian students, what is the real cost of running a university cost?

            Most of the money goes to a bunch of lazy White professors with seniority who don't teach courses, who don't do research yet getting $200,000 to $300,000 for doing nothing.

          • What is the real cost of running a university course? All those sessional instructors, how much they make every year? Boo!

          • I am not talking about undergrad courses, even Masters level courses are taught by what?

          • What does it mean to "BE Canadian"? To be white, British, or French? Shouldn't we be challenging our outdated notions of what it means to be Canadian? Canada was founded by WASP men who created a notion of citizenship that was exclusionary of most visible minorities including Asians and Aboriginals. This does not represent the Canadian identity that has been formulating over the years. Identity is constantly evolving and changing, so we need to get it out of heads that there is only ONE way to be Canadian.

          • WASP men did not create a notion of citizenship that was exclusionary of most visible minorities. That is only a product of your fevered mind. Canada has always been a nation welcoming immigrants, and for you to indicate otherwise is highly insulting. You need to get yourself a history book. The cultures that first populated Canada are equally valuable as the ones that have arrived in the last 20 years.

          • Canada has always been a nation welcoming immigrants? Very white of you. Read your history! Ever hear about the Head Tax and the Exclusion Act: http://www.ccnc.ca/redress/history.html? Chinese- and Indo-Canadians were denied the right to vote until 1947. Japanese-Canadians were finally allowed to vote a year later, in 1948.

          • Those are exceptional cases. Of course I'm aware of them. Canada was far more welcoming at the time than most other nations on earth. Canada also denied women the right to vote until the last 100 years or so. That doesn't mean that Canada didn't welcome women into the country.

            And even though there were some unfortunate negative policies, that didn't stop millions of Chinese, Japanese and Indians from coming here anyway, because it was plainly obvious they were better off in Canada than elsewhere.

            So what are you saying? Only Chinese/Japanese/Indians count as foreigners? That's exactly what I'm pointing out. At that time, Canada was accepting vast numbers or immigrants from Europe and all over the world. But to you, most of those people don't count, cuz they were white, and white people don't count. That's racism. Take your racism elsewhere.

          • Sounds like you didn't make the cut to get into university because your errors of logic and grasping are rather pathetic.

            As for the value of the cultures that first populated Canada, try asking an aboriginal who was sent to a residential school if they believe their culture has been valued. Why was it only in 1960 that aboriginal people could vote in federal elections?

          • Oh Romeo, don't you have a nerve? Shall I mail you copies of my graduate degree so that you may show a little respect? Or am I two stooopid 2 b abul to handul ur greatnes?

            "Why was it only in 1960 that aboriginal people could vote in federal elections? "

            Here's a thought – try moving to an aboriginal reserve and voting in an aboriginal election. Oh wait…. http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=25…

            Wow, they won't even let you move into their neighborhood. Not even if you marry one of the locals. They'll still kick you out. Gotta love our wonderful modern multiculturalism. You have such a knack for examples. Mohawks have had the abilty to vote in Canadian elections for 50 years, but if you're not Mohawk you can't even live in their neighborhoods, let alone vote in Mohawk elections. But it's the rest of us who are not the welcoming ones. Good job, Romeo! Great example!

            That article was written in 2010, by the way. That would be this year (just helping you out in case your understanding of dates is too primitive).

          • Ha, ha! National Post. That explains a lot, Herr grad degree.

          • I totally agree! We live in a society overtaken by globalization yet Canada seems to be the only racist issue here. Canada is such a cultural melting pot, taking in ALL races yet how many other countries do you see doing the same thing!? Yes, there was the exclusion act and the head tax in the past, and the Canadian government should be ashamed to have done so but that is the past and in today’s day and age that is no longer the case. But looking at China, how welcoming are they for “white canadians” to attend their schools and keep their own culture? People who work hard enough should be allowed in any university they choose, however universities also favour the highest dollar and immigrants tend to pay more to get a better education. It isn’t necessarily the “asian people’s” fault for the population majority in schools but instead the school favouritism of the highest bidder. The school’s are doing it to themselves, not that it should matter what race attends what school: as long as the students are working hard. However, I am seriously offended by the idea portrayed by Macleans and other posters that all the “non-asians” or “white canadian kids” are automatically included in the drunk and lazy category. There are MANY “white” kids working just as hard as anyone else to accomplish their high career goals. They should have the ample opportunity to do so just as any other student.

          • Irish were treated alot worse than chinese. You should learn YOUR history or ask my brother who is a prof he will tell u! Ever hear the term IRISH NEED NOT APPLY and my granddad was not allowed in canada with his brothers they had to move to new york!!!!!!!!!!Hows that for racism! And they did not get welfare cheques, free houses, free courses, free money every month and they did not have attitude!

          • Wow. You quite ignorant and uneducated, but that is typical.

          • When acting like a smarta**, you should at least learn a little grammar, twit.

          • And you are a racist bigot. What is it so hard to admit that? They were not exceptional cases. They were official government policy backed by public support. And yes it did stop people from immigrating because that was what the Exclusion Act and head taxes were designed to do. Canada welcomed white immigrants historically. Anybody with any education in sociology knows the meaning of the term vertical mosaic and the fact that Canada has been a white supremacist nation. This is plainly obvious from the comments on this thread where butt hurt little white boys and girls are trying their damn best to maintain and uphold their white privilege.

          • Like I said, when acting like a smarta**, you should at least learn a little grammar, twit.

          • Its not our fault we are the smartest race!

          • What have you done to earn your citizenship? Are you a true Canadian? As in First Nations? Most likely your ancestors immigrated to Canada and you were born in Canada and therefore making you a Canadian. Why didn't they just work hard in their own countries and instead came to Canada?

          • They think only they are Canadian because they have white skin. (English/French ancestry) That's why we call it racism and white supremacy.

          • Just jumping into the convo, this is kind of a ridiculous point. The entire modern national structure of canada is Anglo-French, and outside of Quebec Anglo predominantly. Our universities weren’t built by Aboriginals, nor were our roads or our major cities except for a few relics. The pioneers didn’t apply for visa they landed on the shore and found a continent they didn’t know was there before,a nd in 500 years built a nation state. None of our universities, at least any that are reputable have much relation to Aboriginal Culture outside a few obscure programs. Noone from China come to canada to get a piece of Aboriginal infrastructure. Your point is moot. the fact is that canada has an established national structure and it is legitimate to enforce its own borders. the extent of that enforcement and the concerns of preservation of culture are debateable but to claim that because Aboriginals once lived here, now canada should just let anyone in whenever is beyond illogical and also impractical.

          • Claire, I agree with your point that once we move to Canada or earn immigration, we should adopt Canadian culture as much as possible (I am from South Asia). But at the same time I also want to practice my own culture from my country of origin. The point is to take every good aspects from all neighboring communities to make this a better country.

          • lol UVIC. i didn’t even consider applying to that second rate school. 

        • @047c0f87cf269d77b3a228585b44e8c8:disqus. Bugger off and get a life! Canada, especially Vancouver, is NOT multicultural. Chinese and Caucasians does NOT mean multicultural. It is obvious you have no education whatsoever, so stop pretending you do. You’re embarrassing yourself.

      • its not for you. whats the issue? you simply just can't do as well as asians? sad.

        • I couldn't care less what race professionals come from. If they meet the qualifications of their profession, so what?

          No matter what faculty you go into, you are always competing to achieve an academic standing that will allow you to garner one of the available spots. How hard your peers are willing to study will set the bar. Many Asians take their education seriously, so they are willing to sacrifice a lot, like having a social life. For white people to call this a problem is hypocritical and racist. Merit is objective. If you're not willing to rise up to the challenge, it's your problem. Suck it up!

        • I bet your name isn't Betsy… I'm guessing Cho.

          • i bet your name isn't mark…i'm guessing it's douchebag.

          • Clever, "asdfkajh." It's really impressive that at least you are taking the initiative to learn words with more than one syllable in English.. and North American slang, too! Gold Star!

          • Oh my gosh, are you serious, douchebag? I can't believe you just wrote that. I can't believe there are people like you who call themselves Canadian.

          • Hey, CBC Chica. Try to focus. One guy was extremely insulting and the other reacted. Get a grip. It seems that in your world, using the word "douchebag" is perfectly acceptable, but pointing out an obvious fact in response to that insult, that is beyond the pale. Grow a brain.

      • The answer is as simple as you need to work harder and stop blaming other people for your own laziness.

        It's not "racist" if the majority of top careers are Asian if they got there by pure hard work, and not by race. It IS racist, however, if you decide that you need more white doctors and lawyers just because they're white, regardless of their capability.

        Personally, if my life is hanging on a thread on the operation table, I could care less if the surgeon is Asian of white. I'd just want the smarter one, who worked harder in school and is better at the job.

        • agree

        • Yes – It should not matter what race a person is, but what skill they have. If a person has worked harder to gain those skills, who are we to stop them?

        • So then I guess it would be racist to ask on applications for many jobs whether you are a "visible minority"? Oh wait…they already do that… But recently the visible minority is changing from Asian or other backgrounds to white. I think it is perfectly reasonable.

      • Hey Sheryl, multiculturalism is a failed and never proven to work ideology for useful idiots to tout. The game is domination and if you let someone take over they will period. All the Chinese have to do is wait 20-30 years and then bad times for all Occidental people.

        • Jack, your blatant xenophobia is a pox on what being a Canadian is. Why you should feel threatened by the Chinese says more about your own inadequacies than there being some conspiracy to take over the country.

          Multiculturalism is like a marriage, all parties need to work at it. It fails when people don't. It has worked in the places where people want it to succeed. Clearly, you aren't interested in it doing so.

          • Are they? They hang out in thier "bubbles" not bothering to pick up any of the two main languages and abusing the privileges Canadian have. How is this working at it?

          • Ever been an immigrant or lived in another country, Concerned? I doubt it because you would know that people of a particular social or cultural background associating together is a common thing. Ever heard of expat ghettos or Little Italy? White people do the same thing when they go overseas.

            I have a feeling you hang out in a bubble too, Concerned, called xenophobia or vaunted ignorance.

          • Aren't you an enlightened eltitist snobbish twit. We should all bow down before your omniscient judgement. Seems as though you know what I ate for breakfast yesterday. Aren't you a genius!

          • Can't come up with anything to refute what I said, huh s_c_f? That's a lot of words to use to say nothing except that you have no idea.

          • Um, refute what exactly? That common cultures associate together? And exactly what does that have to do with Concerned's statement that "They hang out in their bubbles not bothering to pick up any of the two main languages and abusing the privileges Canadian have".

            Nothing.

            Congrats, you've been to Little Italy. Now exactly what does that have to do with anything? In case you haven't noticed, everybody in little Italy speaks English or French (with very few exceptions) and is well integrated into Canadian society. Just pointing out that different groups band together has nothing to do with the failings of multiculturalism.

            Yet despite having added nothing to the discussion, you maintain an elitist, snobbish tone. Say something intelligent and then act like a snob. Then work on humility and get rid of the holier-than-thou.

          • For someone with a grad degree, you seem to have an inordinate problem with reading comprehension, s_c_f. You must have been in Commerce, which is just a credential, not an actual education.

          • Little italy moved back to italy thanks to the racist somali and arab gangs in ottawa!

          • What Canadian privileges are they abusing?

          • Romeogolf is the smartest white guy here his comments prove that “he gets it”. Now why are white Canadians so scared silly of sino power? China is currently the dominant world force and will just move to consolidate that power more and more over the coming decades so get use to it. Greace had its time, Rome had its time, Britannia once ruled the waves and everywhere else, then came the great hungry beast called America…hmm all Caucasians (we are talking about total world influence so lets not talk really consider the Egyptians, the Mongols or even the Hannibal and his elephants). Well what have we come to after so much “white power”. Lets take stalk. Well we had 400 years of slavery and the extermination of between 60 to 100 million people of a certain non-white race in the process; the colonization and destruction of peoples and cultures  that happen to be “not white enough” all over the world (India, Far East, American natives, South American natives, Africa, the Caribbean, swabs of the middle east need I go on?); the  must inhuman and cruel extermination of 6 million of their own white people because they still were not white enough for them since they had origins in Israel which is in the middle east (forgetting that their precious Jesus is NOT white but a Middle Eastern/African man); the creation  and use of the single most destructive weapon in the history of mankind (nuclear bomb) something that could wipe out our entire human race; the ruination of our environment bringing us to the brink of disaster; and lately the destruction of the world’s financial system and the creation of an economic abyss that we will likely never fully climb out of! So why not let us chinese dominate for a while and see how we do? So I ask you white people, what are you so afraid of? You should be scared of your own people not us! Yellow power baby.

          • ha ha ha, why are you posting from your mom’s basement? Get a job, wanker.

        • I agree completely. All you have to do is set foot in downtown Richmond in Vancouver to see this. Cantonese immersion schools, not one sign in English. And not an ethnicity to be seen but Chinese. This does not seem like adapting to Canadian life, it is just setting up shop here.

          • The Canadian Way of Life is about accepting those cultures and living as a mosaic. We're not a melting pot. Your only valid point is the one about road signs. Who cares if Cantonese immersion schools exist? Ones for Spanish and other languages do too. You also forget that immersion schools focus on both English and whatever language they specialize in teaching–hence, the word "immersion".

          • Yes, and their taxes are paying for YOUR health care and education

          • Absolutely false. Many Chinese do live in Richmond, but there are plenty of non-Chinese who do as well. Lots of places with English signs. Sounds like you just took a spin down part of No. 3 Road or you're purposely exaggerating.

            P.S. Smart people know Richmond is where you go for the best Chinese food.

        • Wow… is it depressing going through life with that kind of attitude? I imagine it would be.

      • Your reaction is typical of the myopic racist. I suppose you thought it was sunshine and lollipops when not too long ago, Asians had to literally wait in ditches when their 'white overlords' passed them in the streets in their own countries. Suck it up Mr. Weiss, China and India are about to make you irrelevant.

        Besides, many of the immigrants to Canada are business professionals who are much richer, smarter and dare I say it, more adept at doing the jobs in the 21st Century that will give us an edge in the new economy. Besides, being anti-Asian in your immigration views doesn't make you just anti-diluvian, it makes you an American!

      • Stopping immigration? Who's going to support you paying for your pension and benefits when you grow old?!

        • Some people know how to save money. Some people actually have defined contribution pensions. Some people plan for the future.

      • Here is the problem, when people say "let's stop immigration" they do NOT have white immigrants in mind. Tell me, when you say this, do you mean we should stop an American? How about a British person? Do you find them just as threatening? After all, they would technically bw immigrants too. However, that is never what people mean. When they say "stop immigration" they are thinking of non-whites. On top of which, this statement is only ever triggered by the influx of non-Caucasians, it is never said when referring to white immigrant workers or students. And THAT is why those statements are more about racism than anything else. It implies an "us vs. them" attitude. People are not threatened by immigrants necessarily, they are threatened by minority immigrants? That is when the anger appears. And why? It's obviously rooted in an ego-centric attitude of white entitlement. If not, why does this anger only come out against minority immigrants? It's certainly not a coincidence.

        • Sorry to get nitpicky and I realize what you meant, but neither all Americans nor all Brits are white

          –a non-white, American immigrant to Canada.

      • So unless you're native, then you better get the f*ck out of this country.

    • Adopting our values and working hard? Assimilating quite well and outperforming white Canadian students?

      Seems to me you're implying that hard work and achieving in school is the domain of white people, and that Asians are crashing the party.

      The issue of racial groups not wanting to assimilate is a real one, and a problem that every multicultural country struggles with. We're lucky in Canada that the immigrant group in question (East Asians) simply wants to stick to themselves, study hard and get good jobs. Germany and France wish they had it so easy.

    • Agree with you

    • I agree with you, John.
      Good values are about to pass them on, not hold to ethnic groups or race groups.
      Culture is about to share and move on.
      This article is more like doing a statistic test, dumb and misleading. Too Shallow.

    • I am so glad there are intelligent people out there.

      Truly, this article could have represented both sides of the story well, if only it was better researched. I can see what the article is referring to in terms of some Chinese students segregating themselves. I go to University of Waterloo myself, and I've seen clusters of Chinese students who spend time exclusively with other Chinese students. Now, this could be from non-acceptance of students from other countries just because they're not Chinese, but it could also be because they don't know how to relate to students from other countries. Culture differences often make it difficult and borderline painful for two groups to mingle, unless there is someone who understands the awkwardness and makes an effort to better things. This effort should be coming from both groups. Unfortunately, a lot of the time, either side is mature or tactful enough to work the situation out. It's too easy to say, "I don't get this person at all, we have nothing in common, forget this."

      I moved here when I was young, and had the chance to learn the language and the culture in a virtually judgement-free environment due to the age of all the students around me. Not everyone has that luxury. Imagine being 17 or 18, and not being able to speak the language or understand the culture at all; how would it feel to try and approach someone who was born here and start a conversation? There must be fear of rejection, or even mockery. Of course, it also depends on your personality. Some people are quiet by nature, and it's hard for them to cross that bridge of communication, even harder when they can barely speak. Should we fault them for that?

      The last point I want to address is that the article boils down to, a) "There are students who want to go to university, but they don't want to compete or feel the pressure from other students who choose to work harder.", and b) "It is a problem there are more Asian students in university than white students and maybe we should do something about it.". Both are immensely stupid ideas, since you work for what you get, and that's the way it should be.

      The article also missed out on the many Asian-Canadian students (myself included) that have a social life, and decent grades.

    • As an asian parent (mainland Chinese yet!), I did read the main article and I do agree with a lot of what it says, and I did not feel discriminated. All is fine. Many of my friends discuss such issues all the time. I myself think one main reason for us being so 'academic' is that we think that's probably the only safe route for our kids not to fail in this country or any other place for that matter. We know famous rockers and hocky players can make quick money huge money, but we would not put our kids' future in that since we also believe most of the not-so-good hocky players are not rich and may not have a steady career. Tell me wrong if you know I am, but that's what I believe now. By the way I do remind my 14-year old son not to be too nerdy but he has to keep his grades good. By the way I have worked in this very good country for many years and I know 'white guys' are very smart, I don't think you guys have to be scared.

    • They don't adopt our values which is exactly the problem. Also very few pay any income tax. The vast majority of Asian students have one or both of their parents continuing to work back at home while their children take advantage of the cheap schooling.

      • It's not that the vast majority of Asian students have their parents working back at home for them so that they can have cheap schooling. It's because most Asian parents offer to and want to help pay for their children's education so that their children's lives will have a higher chance at being better than theirs (This is even stated in the article). Also, you'd better damn well prove they don't pay any income tax, otherwise you're making false accusations.

      • stop this! If both parents are back home and not Canadian taxpayers, their kid is not eligible for cheap schooling. Talk to CRA about it. You are not concerned, just stupid and paranoid.

        • As a matter of fact I work closely with the CRA. If you got a little educated you could see how easy it is for people to subvert our system, which they do regularly. Only one parent has to have citizenship or Perminant Resident Status in Canada to have their dependants qualify for the same benifits afforded to any Canadian Citizen. The difference is that doing their work outside of Canada, and claiming little to no income inside Canada exempts them from having to pay federal income tax. Therefore getting cheap schooling, access to free Healthcare and a host of other things. Before you slander someone as stupid and paranoid you should take a step back and think before speaking.

          • Canada doesn't have cheap schooling. I'm a Canadian going to uni in Europe right now, paying 400 Euros a term – THAT is cheap schooling! Foreigners don't come to Canada because it's cheap, they come because it has a reputation for multiculturalism and acceptance. Unfortunately all I'm reading on this forum is US and THEM – I thought Canada was past the sense of "the other." Most people here in Europe know Canada as a cultural mosaic – I am embarassed to read these posts speaking of the contrary and acting as if an Asian Invasion is coming! Get real, people.

          • People come to Canada because there is so much SPACE… China has obviously become overpopulated and need more space.

          • I wonder if we have a history of brainleak to the south, balancing the immigration rate

          • Rubbish. You have obviously not been to China, John. Chinese are also going to Europe and the US to study. It has nothing to do with space.

          • Why would he need to go to china he practically lives there.

          • Asian invasion is coming? They're already here, and have taken over!

          • Yeah and I go to McGill and know people from all over the world that do this, Americans with one Canadian parent or people all over the world with French citizenship paying the in-province fees and no taxes. Not sure how it’s in any way specific to Asians. If you don’t like it, chance the rules.

          • *change

      • "Cheap Schooling"
        Have you looked at the price some international students need to pay?
        Do you even know the conversion rate of some of the currencies?
        Asian parents work their asses off to make money for their kids to grow up outside their own countries because they still have the idea that Canada and America are lands of dreams. If the typical "local" student pays 10k-16k for tuition, multiply that by 6 for average Chinese yuan then they pay about 60k +. In China, there is no "minimum wage" that small companies can pay, they pay what they can or want. Many Asian parents use their life savings and send all their earnings to their children studying abroad while they live off pennies and scraps at home.

        • Where do you get your biased, bullcrap info from, sir?

        • Foreigners don't get into our schools because they pay more. They have to make the grade!

      • @Concerned: FYI, international/foreign students pay nearly double the domestic rate… to say that they're taking advantage of cheap schooling, priced at $10000/semester in some programs e.g. MBA is a bit rich for me. Would you have the cash to pay $10000/semester for so-called "cheap schooling" buddy?

      • And YOU'RE not taking advantage of the cheap schooling?

        • wasting it, apparently

      • Concerned,

        you are an effing idiot. Cheap schooling for kids? you effing kidding me? Living expenses are much higher for a kid with both parents working abroad due to exchange rate. Get your facts straight before spewing your verbal diarrhea.

    • About taking over, Statistics Canada shows that Chinese here have one of the lowest birth rates. South Asians and people from middle East have much higher birth rates. Canadian Immigration is admitting more Philippinos (culturally compatible Christians) than both Chinese and sub-continent Indians. Consider that both India and China is more than 10 times the size of the Philippines in terms of population. So, rest assured. just stop this fearmongering!

    • There is something to be said about generations of canadians paying taxes to keep our universities "afforadable" or "sustainable" or "exisitant" so that our canadians and our children are able to attend. Is if fair that we pay and pay and work very hard to be able to attend these schools and can't because an immigrant with high grades takes our spots becuase they are having to pay international fee's. I should think if it were the opposite, Canadians immigrating to Asia, for education etc they would be unhappy if we were taking their childs spot when they had been paying to sustains these universites for generations.

      Just a thought..

      • Exactly! People are so quick to turn this into a race issue, when that is not what it's about at all. Nice comment! Finally, someone with some brains on this panel of morons!

        • It is about race. Israelis and Russians and other white people do the same thing, hang out in their particular ethnic groups and speak in their own non-English and non-French languages and you don't see any uproar or magazine articles about that.

          • Not all Israelis are white… smh.

      • As you said, International students pay International tuition fees, which are much higher than what a Canadian student would pay. So yes, it is fair.

        • student teacher 101 is also forgetting universities get a huge chunk of money off of accepting international students, which keeps universities 'affordable' and 'sustainable' or 'existent' so that canadians are able to attend.. how's that?

        • I can't get into a university in my home city, because someone from the other side of the world has more money than me? Plus the fact that there are so many willing to pay it that tuition here skyrockets…Yep… that sounds really fair.

          • @ Rick: /pat sorry to hear that.

            If some students are not able to attend the institution of their choice due to capacity problems, I really think our universities should reconsider those international satellite campuses…

          • you can't get into university because you're dumb and lazy. seriously. it's not that hard to get into a well-respected. university.

            the problem is how well you do in it.

            stop blaming other groups if you didn't get in.

            you would never have made it out even if u made it in

      • Generations of Canadian paying taxes to keep your universities "affordable" or "sustainable" or "exisitant" so that our canadians and our children are able to attend? What the heck are you talking about?

        You mean the generations of white people who steal the land, plunder natural resources and pay "some of that loot" to your government so the universities can stay afloat and have senior White professors with tenure getting paid $300,000 a year for doing no research and no teaching?

    • You misunderstand, Macleans is pointing out the self-segregation of Canadian groups. Nobody is criticizing Asian kids for working harder, good for them. But allowing universities to become either an Asian university or a White university is socially destructive. Pointing out the issue is the first step towards challenging the idea that "I don't want to go to UoT, its too Asian" is a legitimate thing to say.

      • We've had self-segregation since before Canada became a country. Did the Europeans integrate with the aboriginal groups? Nope. What about the French and the English? Lots of self-segregation still going on today? What happened when the Italians, the Irish, and the Greeks came here? Same thing. What happens when white people go abroad to work? Ever heard of expat ghettos?

        This is not something peculiar to any one ethnic group. It is common to all who go to a new country. In that respect, I find this article is not being particularly helpful in singling Asians out. What has been helpful, though, is that the article has drawn out the racists and the ignorant. It shows us that as a multicultural society, we still have a long way to go.

    • Well said…I totally agree with Mr. Brown's comments.

      If the Asian kids make sacraficies early on and study hard to get into a good school, they deserve to go to that school. If a black guy has a special talent and tries hard in a professional sport, well then who are we to say that he can not play in the major league and gets paid the big bucks?

      Why would it be fare to expect others to stop progress just because I don't want to move?

      The authors of this article should wake up and get moving becasue the world is turning.

    • The big picture is about preservation of culture. Asians are not mixing well because of the culture clash. North Americans want to have fun and grow as people, while Asians fear for their socioeconomic security by demanding merit in their escape into academics. When they outperform North Americans, they become jealous and even outnumbered in some cases which corners and jeopordizes the preservation of the culture here. Because Asians are so concentrated on one thing and one thing only: studying, they have a difficult time to relating to "whites" and tend to stick to other Asians for social security and support. This tends to really annoy the whites because Asians are growing in large numbers which is causing and expanding bubble of tension. It's sad that Asians feel the need to seclude themselves because of the way they had been taught to go through school was by getting high grades but not growing as individuals in order to achieve a social life that can be integrated positively into North American society.

      • Put a sign at your national borders that says "White Canada Forever!"

        We don't have to come, but your universities want our money.

    • ur trying to say that all asians are immigrants and all don’t pay taxes. “This is ridiculous, if they want to work hard, make money, pay their taxes, let them! ” just a FYI i’m an asian and i’m an american citizen and my parents pay all their taxes. and “Who are we to stop them for doing so? “and “Are we afraid of immigrants adopting our values and working hard.” ..hmmmm.. i wonder whats with the affirmative action…if that doesn’t mean chicken idk what

  3. So what, this is nothing new! I graduated from Waterloo 18 years ago with a B.Math Honours, Computer Science (Co-op). I'm not Chinese, but most of my friends were, in fact a friend who wasn't, remarked after a couple of weeks when I introduced her to someone, that she was the first of my friends she met who wasn't Chinese – it was not said as a bad thing, just an observation lol. My aunt also remarked that the picture of my CS graduating class was 3/4 Chinese. Who cares.

    What I did care about though, was that we had a lot of TAs who spoke little to no English and were useless for help, yet us as undergrads and having English as a first language, had to get 60% on the English Language Proficiency Exam (ELPE). If you're going to TA a class, you should be able to understood and answer questions in English and not just written English as some TAs, but in person. I can count on ONE hand the number of times a TA actually helped me or my friends.

    • well said

    • Well said, I am an engineering student who goes to Queen's university and I am experiencing the same problem as well. The majority of my TA's know the technical aspects of the courses very well but are unable to explain them to undergrad students.

      • mind, many of the TAs are graduate students who are internationals, no?

        • it's interesting how they got into grad school with such an incomprehensible communication skill
          ( a real flaw in the TOEFL exam?)

          • I guess its because TOEFL exam focuses heavily on the WRITING aspects. So one can be good on writing papers in English without being good on verbal communications in Englsih with others.

    • well said… except for your English in the last paragraph :)

    • Nothing new is right. The same issue was raised in 1980 by the CTV show W5 and created a fiasco. It became known as "the W5 incident". Google it or go to http://archives.cbc.ca/emissions/emission.asp?pag…
      Same old fears 30 years later. Relax people. International students do not take spaces away from domestic students. Many of them stay and contribute to our communities or go home with an understanding of Canada that helps build future international relationships.

    • I went to UW for EE 8 years ago….I don't think it was a language thing, they were just jerks! (but that's another issue).

    • Notice none of the article ever refers to Asians as being yellow. Just Asian. This article more or less tries to reinforce the Asian or "yellow" stereotypes of hardworking, smart, get high marks kind of a Asian or "yellow" student. I only believe about 25% of what is written in the article and the other 75% is pure commercial, a soap opera like novel to reinforce prejudice and stereotypes which is definintely not scholarly at all.

      • This article sounds more resentful of "yellow" Asian students and reinforces the stereotype of "yellow" Asian students who get high marks, are math and science majors and graduate at Canada's Elite Universities. Asian students do go to social clubs and social events on weekends just everybody else. Asian students are not just only science, math and engineering majors, "yellow" students just like the "white" students major in arts, business, education, etc…etc. I don't think the McCleans article truly reflects what goes on in Canadian University.

        • I think this article is more resentful and reinforces negative stereotypes of Asians in university. As well, the article is a way of further venting out frustrations about educated "yellow" Asians that occupy "too many seats in the lecutre hall" by inventing a non-scholarly term – "Asian ceiling". This type of "Asian bashing" proves to me how mainstream Canadians think and feel about Asians, not as their counterpart, but because they feel threatened for the future employment of their children and their grandchildren. Employers don't want a potential drunk and alcoholic to skip work just to party. Clients and patients don't want a lawyer or doctor who partied their way through university and achieved low marks on finals. I know I don't.

    • you should care. Canadian taxpayers paid for those degrees.

  4. As a Caucasian grad student in engineering at U of T I say Big F@#king deal. Every one of those students worked extremely hard to get where they are, largely because their parents valued the OPPORTUNITY Canada gave them. University is not a right, you have to work for it. "White" people usually come from families who have lived in Canada for generations and maybe don't realize how lucky we are compared to the rest of the world. The "they took my job" complaint essentially means "I was lazy and decided to play video games and party, but I REALLY wanna go". Don't we all remember something about ants and grasshoppers…..

    • Well said AER. All the native white canadians after high school( many drop outs) like to have a girl friend, work in a restaurent or somewhere earn some money, have sex, drink all the while hangaround with friends. They dont value the education and job because since beginning they dont get any motivation from parents. At age 16 or 18 parents kick them out . So they look ariound go to some school and become carpenter or welder like that. This is why they dont move forward in thir life and jealouse of others crying always 'they took my sopt and job like that. Poor petty craps.

      • See, when you use the word "all" like that, it's extremely offensive. It really shows your true feelings and attitudes towards "white" Canadians.

        • That was directed at Goog by the way.

          AER, in terms of your post, I do agree with you.

      • Thanks, you're spot on. I knew a girl who started living with a boyfriend since age 14! If this girl manages to complete high school, how in the world do you expect her to compete against another girl (of whatever ethnic background) who put in over 6hours of after-school study time a day? This is no rocket science.

      • Your comment is racist. Also, not everyone's parents support them totally financially. I worked in a restaurant during undergrad because my parents would pay my tuition only, not my rent, food, bills, not because I was too lazy to study.

      • if you are chinese, I want to tell you that I often tell my white friends that it is very hard to be proud of being Chinese and you are the reason why. And the funny part is I am still so damn proud of being Chinese because lots of them are not like you.

    • My grandparents did move here. They also started speaking English the very same day, and became CANADIANS, not people with canadian passports.

      • And Jack, what exactly is "Canadian"?

        • Well Vicky, Canada is a sovereign nation, and has been since 1867. Tens of thousands of our forefathers died to create and protect this country overseas in wars, and here at home. Our freedoms, including free healthcare, freedom of speech and high standard of living all stem from the hard work and sacrifice of the people who came before us. No, this doesn't just mean white people, it means people from all races including Japanese, Chinese, Native Americans and African Americans (to name a few) working together to create this land that we are so lucky to call Canada today. People moving here now are taking these things for granted and abusing our system and rights (often entering illegally), but not bothering to adopt any Canadian values or culture. Canada's two official languages are French and English. To be Canadian means to learn to speak one of those two languages, to learn about, respect, and even add to Canadian culture and history, and to be able to sing the national anthem with pride. The argument that we are all immigrants can be argued anywhere – Everyone came from Africa originally if you believe in evolution. The point is to move to Canada, you should make an effort to be CANADIAN, not just create a bubble of your own culture and traditions, without even attempting to appreciate the beauty and history of what is already here – and only using Canada as a means to an end. That, Vicky, is what Canadian is; although it appears to me that these days being Canadian means being too afraid to appear "racist" to stand up for our Country.

          • Well said… I too am proud to call myself CANADIAN… and agree with every single thing you said… Amen

          • What you are trying to say is short sighted, and you contradict yourself.

            You build a case about a free nation, then go on with how people should act (i.e., "being Canadian") in this nation.

            You are trying to set standards for what it is to be a Canadian by listing; language skills, respect to culture, and being patriotic.

            Most Canadians are monolingual i.e., they speak either English or French. That is a major divide right there! Don't believe me? Try to speak French to someone at random in English Canada, or English in Quebec somewhere outside Montreal or Quebec City. You will experience a huge divide right there! Yet, you are focused about the fact that there are groups being formed in universities and that they don't blend in to the Canadian culture. Seriously? That's your discomfort?

            Canada has a very short history relatively to many other nations. Its culture is predominantly composed of many subcultures (originating from outside Canada). And, frankly, this may be a surprise to you but, Canadians are not very patriotic. Shall we even get into discussion about the Aboriginal history and identity?

            The true Canadian identity has more to government policies and deep cultural values, than slapping some obscure label as "being Canadian".

            Read up!

          • Sarven, you call Jack short sighted but you are not so "farsighted" yourself.____A nation, regardless of how "free" you are, needs law in place to conduct order in society. Jack never said anything about a "free nation", so first of all I would encourge YOU to read up and really try to understand what others are saying before criticising them. There HAS to be boundaries on actions to discourage crime, that is not the issue of freedom, but the issue of safety and security and rights to life. ____About being patriotic, this might be a surprise to you but, Aboriginals do not have any influence in this country. Even though there are laws to protect them, let's be blunt and I'll say Aborginal influence is as good as a rat's pellet to the cow's dung. Being Aboriginal has NOTHING to do with being patriotic, because Canada is operated by "white-coloured-men". If anything, patriotic means just get the f out of U.S.'s way and provide military support like a dog. There is no cultural value in Canada. IF anything, Canadian culture is the exact opposite of deep culture. Canada represents MULTIculture.____Read down Sarven, read down.

          • You're joking right? Even by making an effort to be"CANADIAN" and by not creating a bubble of one's own culture and traditions, there will always be people who judge you because of how you appear. For example, say an asian person has two close friends who are also asian and they're seen walking around. There will be people who think, "Oh, they want to form their own asian group, they aren't interested in other races. They aren't CANADIAN." In reality that might not even be the case, they could be friends because they take similar classes in school, because they've just known each other for a long time, or because they have similar interests. They could also have close non-asian friends, but they happen to not be out with them that day. They could be speaking English all the time, and maybe they don't even know how to speak an asian language. However, people will walk by and just ASSUME, that because they're three asians walking together, that they're smart, completely focussed on school work, refuse to accept other races, and the list goes on. Unfortunately, you can't get rid of those people, and they'll always be trapped in their ignorance. Although I will add that whether you admit it or not, this article is racist. Just because an asian person will work hard to achieve good grades, does not in any way mean that they are not Canadian. They should not be discriminated against just for doing well in school.

          • Why don't you move back to England, Europe, if you so want to speak English? Why are you in Canada if you want to live an European life?

    • AER, your comment is very logical. it's not about being white or brown or black, no matter what color or race you're from, it's all about being determined and having perseverance whether academically or anything that has something to do with life and future. dreaming of something big is not enough, you have to work hard for it and when you work hard there's always a fruit of your labour in the end.

    • haha i'm the lazy one and play video games and party and i'm asian, woot woot!! Like Steve Aoki says WOOT WOOT, Hell yeah!!! SchoolS over rated!!

    • Hi AER_Eng………..Can you please tell me about the 'ants and grasshoppers' you mentioned. I am a 61 year old Asian lady who have lived in Toronto for 37 years and who might not have caught this thing when I was growing up. Thank you……..Tina

      • R,
        It is a tale about an grasshopper and an ant. The grasshopper was lazy, and just lived life one day at a time. The ant worked and stored up food. When winter came, the ant had food and lived. The grasshopper died. This is a consolidated version, but it gets the idea across.

    • I totally agree with you. Couldn't have said it any better.

    • Yeah, I totally agree with you AER_Eng. This article complains and bitches about too many Asians "yellow" in Canadian Univerities. In Hong Kong and China nobody complains or bitches about too many Asians in university in Hong Kong or China. Nobody complains or bitches about how "whites" or Caucasians are under represented there. In fact, Hong Kong and China should complain that there shoud be more "white" and Caucasians in Hong Kong and Chinese universities.

  5. So what, this is nothing new! I graduated from Waterloo 18 years ago with a B.Math Honours, Computer Science (Co-op). I'm not Chinese, but most of my friends were, in fact a friend who wasn't, remarked after a couple of weeks when I introduced her to someone, that she was the first of my friends she met who wasn't Chinese – it was not said as a bad thing, just an observation lol. My aunt also remarked that the picture of my CS graduating class was 3/4 Chinese. Who cares.

    • You will care when they decide they don't have the resources left to sustain their ridiculous population and plant a Chinese flag in Canada. Have fun being put into forced labour. Think it's a joke, remember Tibet?

      • remeber it's you who made the rule to let us into this country. If you did not need us why the fuss? I thought I was coming here to help becasue you did not want to go to university to learn some new things to keep up the pace. Don't worry If I needed labour, I would not hire in case its too hard for you.

        • To "Chinese in Calgary" : Learn English.

        • No actually I never got a say in the decision to "let you in". If i did there would be far more stringent guidlines. The people that did decide that however are only thinking with their pocket books and seeing dollar signs and not having the best interests of Canadians in mind at all.

          • Maybe you should go to University, acquire an education, and get out of whatever white-dominated cluster f**k of a small-town you're from. If you can't realize the white-western hegemony that perpetuates the dichotomies of global power and hence wealth, around the world?

      • ur real ignorant. u must be one of those red necks out in the country who has a gr 6 education

    • I totally agree with you. Everybody work hard to what you want in life. I was not born in china or HK. I live in several countries before coming to Canada. Maybe wome white elites worry that their country will be swamped by outsiders. you know why?? the only reason I get, they never treat you guys, other skin color as Canadians or even brothers. i urge Asian and other countrymen, finish your education(you are just their clients). Go back to your own country and contribute to it. there is no real multi-culturism. these leaders want to play politics and stir anti-immigrations sentiments. They dont'even appreciate what we contribute to this country, what they want is drinking, enjoying life, indulge in thei sex and die tomorrow.

  6. Isn't this just racism? I'm Asian, and I was born in Canada. Hence, I am Canadian. White people are only Canadian because they were born here too. Do these white people have some sort of special right because they came here a couple generations before me? Or how do we compare to Europeans who came more recently? Does our hard work mean less or is insignificant because of our skin? Ridiculous. If your son can't compete against me, then so be it. This is a meritocracy, the reason why Canada is such a great nation is because the talented and hardworking move up the ladder, and the untalented don't get to make decisions they are not ready for. If you can't compete, move out of the way, if you want to get something I want, work fair and square for it. Stop complaining, let the better man be the victor.

    • US universities require more pints in SAP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. My god. it is ridiculous and I know why now US is in trouble.It ia an american dream…

    • @ Wen Jiabao: Where are the cold hard data that shows that asian students do not interact and do not develop socially? In the end, how can conclusions be made when it's solely base on 'he said she said' scenarios. To say that asians are socially underdeveloped is also a stereotype and generalization. How is this not racist?

      This article is just a thinly veiled commentary on how our universities have too many asians and need to maintain a level of caucasian students. It is also pointing out U.S. university as examples on how they practice racial discrimination on asian candidates and we should do the same.

      Being a proud Chinese Canadian, this article truly breaks my heart. This article coming from a well established Canadian magazine makes it hurt even more.

      • I agree.

        As an addition, many people do see many asians forming an intracultural background in campuses because it is difficult for most Asians who are not Canadians (but visa students) to interact with Canadians who are fluent in English.
        It maybe the language barrier or it could just be the cultural barrier. Although if you're put in the position to do so (for instance in a rural university, such as University of Athabasca where there aren't many Asians), they should not hesitate from interacting with the white Canadian population. But if you're attending a university in the cities (i.e. UBC or UofT), they are likely to form a community within themselves (because they just can with the sheer number of them). It is just easier and more comfortable for those students to form a community within themselves because they share the same cultural and language backgrounds.

        The conclusions made in this article seem to be from mainly anecdotes. Now, how many of you readers who took a course in introductory psychology learned about the dangers of drawing a conclusion from anecdotes?

        Also, the sheer number of Asian population (Canadians and non-Canadians) makes it easier for Asians to form a community in university campuses. What can we say about individuals being attracted to those who look, think, and speak like them? University students are a bunch of individuals who want to experience extensive interactions with the opposite sex, this is so obvious.
        Because much of the community formed in a campus runs around parties, clubs and school organization where these sorts of interactions are possible, it is not surprising to see like-cultural individuals gathering together.

        I do not understand the reason why this is a problem at all.

        @Dee I agree with you in that the article is a thinly veiled commentary on this issue (which is still sort of sad, universities shouldn't need to TRY to maintain a level of caucasian students. Rather it should be the applicant population that should be coping to it, if they wish so)

    • Remember, it's never racism if it's white people on the losing end. Right?

      • Jews are white.

        • @ Guest234: Get your facts straight- some of the Jews are white; an example would be Jewish people of African descent- Blacks and simultaneously Jewish!

          • Non white Jews are not considered Jews. Colored Jews in Israel are treated much the same as colored people in North America, as subhuman.

          • I agree – my cousins are part Jewish and part Asian…in fact many people in Canada are of mixed descent, especially in Toronto. Insulting one race, insults a whole lotta people of all kinds.

      • no thats exactly it ive never heard of someoen being racist towards white ppl theres no such thing

      • Awww… poor oppressed white people suffering so much discrimination when they hold all the power in government, industry, academia, media, and entertainment. Somehow they are the losers?

    • Well said!!

    • Stop disguising under another race..
      You are basically stereotyping , I`ve met many Asians who are very sociable and many from other races who are not..
      I once met a white guy at a formal networking function who could not stop downing booze and talking about his partying in his uni days. All of us (whites, asians, blacks) were basically finding excuses to get out of that conversation and join another group instead. Was that a professional social behavior at a formal networking event ( which you`ll likely attend in your professional career)?? The point is that there are people from all races who are weak socially ..So, stop generalizing and stereotyping, get it??

    • Jope the racism is being exhibited by Chinese Canadians with their arrogance and aires of superiority. The article works insultingly both ways, but not too far from the truth and a wakeup call for European Canadians allot of us are second generation. Intercultural conflict is the map of history.

      • Oh yes, lets stoke up a good old fashioned race war. Its not about culture, its about race. Do you see white Canadians complaining about Polish, Greek, Italian, or Russian culture? At universities, Hebrew, Russian, and other languages are spoken as much as "Chinese", and yet do not generate a fraction of the vitriol that this article is exposing.

    • Thank you, finally someone has said what needs to be said, and what is the response? 23 thumbs down… and you call white people racist… everyone is the same, people are idiots and racist no matter what race or culture they come from.

      • No everybody is not the same. The mindset of colonial European whites carries forth to this day and manifests itself in the current power structures and white dominated hierarchy. This is why white people are struggling so hard to maintain their privilege and dominance and hence this article.

    • I am an asian I am not agreeing with you on the 'up the ladder' or 'better man be the victor' thing. I just do not want to believe there is a 'up' and a 'down', there is a 'victor' and a 'loser'. We do not have to live in a war we have enough food for every one.

      • Unfortunately, I'd have to disagree with you. There is a war happening. It is a war of racial and cultural domination, and is being fought with the weapons of public opinion and in some cases, official policies such as university admissions and affirmative action. We can't the luxury of being blind to this since this is of paramount importance in shaping the future.

        • I totally agree, and this kind of conflict will just get more intense as the West is declining and Asia is in ascendency.

    • If you travel to other parts of the world where there's a population of white people (expats) you will see they stick together and hardly go out of their way to try and integrate into mainstream society.

    • The I guess the best way you suggest in getting a job is out drink the boss or make him laugh until he dies..

    • Yes it is racism by the US university administrations. The article itself is not racist at all towards asians. In fact it shows numerous examples of racism towards asians by the administrations and that weirdo mom.

      I may be wrong but i don't know why asians were singled out. I think the article was perhaps trying to point out the perceived lack of socialization between cultures in Canada. Ironically I am at U of T and my social life is way way better than at back in the day at York

      • Asians are singled out partially because both Canada and the US have been historically racist towards Asians. Also the current political climate is antagonistic towards China's emerging dominance as the US is losing power and wealth. To whites, all Asians are synonymous with China, much like how in the 80s all Asians were synonymous with Japan. It is about racism and power and privilege hence the resurgence in mainstream media of Yellow Peril.

        • Again, right on!

    • Sounds like you didn't go to university, Ante. Your rant is so terribly full of ignorance and paranoia that one could not call you educated. You seem to be in a ghetto of your own self-pity. Time to get out in the world a bit to see what it is really like.

    • Canadian universities are allowing all Canadians – no matter what their race or ethnic group or anything else – a fair and democratic chance. Everyone had the fair chance to work hard and get good marks and activities. If you don't like it then it means you're admitting you're inferior to those who did work to get a space.

      Finally, I think a lot of Mohawk, Iroquois, Cree, Salish, and Inuit take exception with your statement.

      • What happened to the native populations was very unfortunate, really. What's done is done, and we can only love Canada for what it is now. So let's start with that.

        Although universities are offering everyone a fair chance right now, the article mentions what American schools are doing – the Asian quota. This is definitely something that should be put in place for schools here. Not only Asian quotas, but quotas for ALL backgrounds. That would ensure a constant diversity of peoples from all walks of life! And would ensure that hopefully BOTH my children and yours would be able to attend university.

        • Then why not just universities? Why not have black quotas in the NBA? Why not have Jewish quotas on Bay Street banks? Really British-descended people make only a fraction of Canada's population, yet make up a huge percentage of the government. Why not have quotas on them too?

          The system is completely fair and democratic, and it's up to the individual whether to study hard or get trashed. The universities want to ensure the best possible academic environment, and if that means letting in more people who happen to have ancestry in East Asia, so be it. If that means keeping out flunkies whose ancestry happens to be in Europe (or Africa, or the Americas, for that matter), then so be it. All our children have the equal chance to attend university. It's up to parents and the kids whether they want to work for it.

          • Actually, all of our children do not have an equal chance to attend university. Have you considered tuition fees lately? How many talented kids are not able to because they or their families can't afford it?

          • Everyone has an equal chance to attend university. That's why there are scholarships and provincial loans. There are also bursaries, if you haven't heard of them – they're just needs-based and not talents-based.
            If children work hard for their studies, then they will get farther than those who do not study hard enough. Whether or not they have the resources or not. Because if they really are good in what they do, there will always be ways for them to acquire sponsorsip of some kind to be able to pay for tuition. It may be difficult, but it's not impossible.

          • You have just contradicted yourself, anon. Those with the financial means have more opportunities than those without, which you admitted above. If you think that is equal opportunity, you must be looking at the world from the perspective of privilege.

          • Good point, romeogolf.

            And Ethan, let's not make this about something it's not. So let's leave the NBA and Bank out of this and stick to the topic at hand. Haha nice try though.

            I want you also to remember that this is Canada. MY ancestors built this country for a better life for ME. If they knew that some Asians (or any other race) would come and steal the university started for us Canadians, they wouldn't be too happy. Just how Asians' ancestors built their countries for a better life for THEM.

            I want my kids to be able to study where I did, where my father did, and where his father did. Because god knows I don't have Asian schools as a fallback…like Asians do.

          • Are you saying that YOUR ancestors built this country for YOU? As in, the entire country is yours and no one else's? If you are, I'm sorry because you're wrong. (:

          • Don't dumb yourself down, Guest, and pretend you actually believe that is what anon44 meant. Canadians throughout history established Universities for Canadian Citizens, not so foreigners could come in and pay extra for them. All CANADIANS (of any race) should have a chance at Uni before ANY non canadians (of any race). This whole article isn't about "too many asians" , it's about the university culture becoming to much like asian culture, which is bound to happen when there are so many people DIRECTLY FROM asian countries. It's not about race, it's about the universities. All these readers just like to pretend it's about race so they can have a good cry. I agree completely with anon44! Canada might as well be a doormat.

          • Asians built the railroads for Canada, and guess what they got for it? Your ancestors stole land and murdered and plundered and pillaged. Turnabout is fair play isn't it? Except that today's minorities are actually playing by the rules and winning. That's where it hurts the most, knowing that white privilege will only get you so far and not all the way.

        • There should be no race-based quotas. We should look at people as individuals, not as members of a race. To have diversity, select INDIVIDUALS from different walks of life, not just this many Chinese and this many White.

    • So what you are saying is that Canada is fundamentally based on white supremacy?

      • Oh yes, of course.

        Just as there are racial identities of colour in Canada, there is also a white racial identity. To Canadians of European descent whiteness is akin to normalness; yet, as Frankenberg (1996) points out, it is unacknowledged and unknown to most white people. Euro-Canadians do not define themselves as white – they merely construct themselves as NOT being people of colour. This invisibility of whitenes is “historically, socially, politically and culturally produced and … linked to … relations of domination” (Weis et al., 1997, p.22). This domination manifests itself in the form of white privilege (examples to follow). These privileges are invisible to most Euro-Canadians; yet, they exist. They are built into Canadian society. It is a “protective pillow of resources and/or benefits of the doubt … (that) repels gossip and voyeurism and instead demands dignity” (Fine, 1997, p 57).
        http://www.usask.ca/education/coursework/802paper…

    • "Your" homeland is Great Britain or France, that being British or French.

      And everyone does have an opportunity to go to an Asian university too. You just have to learn their language just as they have to learn English.

      • ummm…. they don't learn english, that's what the problem is.

        • If they don't learn English, how are those Canadians able to score so well in high school and take the best seats in the universities?

    • Actually, the Canadian homelands by your logic are Britain and France. Canada is the homeland only to First Nations peoples. They were the first who settled this country, not white Europeans. Real Canadians are anybody with Canadian citizenship which is not determined by skin color anymore.

    • Wow…

      Ok first off French, English and Spanish aren't countries. They're languages. White people were not in North and South America first. Did you ever take a history class? I'm not sure what is causing your anger towards Asians but you need to get over yourself.

      Canada is changing and you're going to have to get used to it. I'm not sure where you went to school. I went to University of Waterloo as a non-asian and enjoyed it. I interacted with a lot of Asians and other races. You should try stepping out of box. Maybe your hatred towards Asians will decrease when you realize they are not "evil robots…trying to take over the world".

      I pity your future co-workers. If you don't like Canada find a European country that is mostly white. Oh…wait…due to immigration to replace populations you never will! Get used to multi-culturalism. It's not going away.

    • By the way, Jope, just being born here doesn't make you Canadian. My father, his father, and his father helped build this country to what it is – thus I am inherently a real Canadian. It's not always as simple as you think. Enjoy our country.

      • Being a Canadian born Asian myself, I cannot believe the ugliness of racism rearing itself out. In response to "my father, his father, and his father helped build this country to what it is – thus I am inherently a real Canadian". I do not see why YOU are entitled anymore than the next person since YOU yourself have not contributed in building Canada.

        But if you want to go that route of arguing that your ancestors building up Canada, my ancestors built the railroad that helped make Canada the way it is today. So yes I will enjoy "our" country since it is NOT one nationality's country but EVERY citizen that lives in Canada.

    • Totally suport you!

    • If the Europeans are Canadians because they've been here longer, wouldn't the Aboriginals be the true Canadians?

    • Oh, um I'm sorry but the French and the English were here "first"? What about the First Nations? How come they don't have some sort of "special status" when the white folks came? How come they JUST got the vote half a century ago? This entire argument is irrational. You're still basing your opinions on white supremacy.

  7. Let's call this sense of entitlement to among white students what it is: racism. As the article suggests, Asians are at risk for being viewed, and treated, like the Jews of the '30s and '40s, when quotas (official or not) blocked the admission of high-achieving students in favour of WASPs who were perceived to be more socially congenial, well-rounded, and, in the case of Ivy League schools, representative of the moneyed elite.

    With respect to this article, objective reporting does not mean that a reporter has to take seriously the racist views (or, more accurately, feelings) of white students, particularly those who would rather drink than study while at university. The integration of Asians into university life (which would in large part depend upon their fluency in English) is a valid line of inquiry, but the value of this discussion is undermined by the writer's chosen theme of "help, there are too many Asians at my school!"

    • Well said. The article was written in a very bias manner.

      • I don't think the article is biased or racist, you're just construing it that way. They could have delved deeper into the positive social aspects of what is for the most part brushed off as "drinking" in the article, which is equally as racist portraying all white people as booze hounds.

        Having graduated from engineering at U of T, there really are two different worlds of kids. The first set live in their rooms memorizing books, develop few social skills over the course of their degree only hanging out with likeminded study buddies and wind up very one dimensional, although with extremely high marks.

        The second set are willing to get a less than perfect GPA so they can mingle with friends from other faculties (and disciplines and mindsets), meet members of the opposite sex, potential future business partners, take on extra-curricular activities, etc. NOT getting blackout 24/7.

        • **continued from above**

          Race completely aside, I would have no problem whatsoever admitting someone in the second group who's SAT score was 140 points lower because they truly are more well rounded. But the Canadian admission system is too superficial so grades are all that matter for both ungraduate and graduate programs and even government funding. So then if I tie back in the fact that the first group is a higher percentage of Asians because they were brought up in that hardworking cultural mindset by their parents, all of a sudden bing, pop, AHHH it's racism, when it's really just sociological facts.

          • So then the issues are more about well-roundedness of students. But this article doesn't present in that way. In fact, you've probably presented better than the article about some important issues. However, the way the article presents itself is very biased and portrays race, study habits, and socializing all in a poor manner.

          • Depends on what kind of grad you are talking about. If research graduate, hell no, we want people who have the brains, not someone who drinks every night. "well rounded" means nothing if someone is applying to biology or chemistry for masters or phD, while marks is everything.

        • But what is exactly wrong if someone wants to study 24 hours a day? Isn't western culture supposed to be individualistic? Who can blame me if I want to live my life the way I want to? Do I have to lick the boots of the whites and beg them to accept me into their cliques? That is what you call by assimilation?

    • PLEASE. Stop comparing the "Asian plight" to Jews. I go to uoft. They make theyre own little society, most asians don't even look at me. I am black. When I get paired up with them as lab partners they act like I am not there and automatically assume I don't know what I am doing. They bring their cultural biases with them. They only speak in their various languages. English is only needed when talking to professors and writing essays. And it took me 7 months to find an apartment downtown because all the places renting out said "Asian-only" and when I called and looked at it. Even offered $100 more for rent they turned me down. So I really don't think you should compare your "plight" to what happened to the Jews. It is nothing like that.

      • it goes in every direction

        • Exactly Guest, that's what I'm getting at, it's how people chose to read into it.

          And Uoft Student, that "Asians are the new Jews" in the article is a way out of control statement, the article isn't written well, but it touches on so many points I still think it has merit.

          I had a similar apartment thing happen in that area south of campus, McCall and whatnot. The landlord saw me and my roommate and immediately mentioned the price was $200 more than the ad, starting saying that we'd be drinking all the time and having friends over and that he'd be sending his grandmother over to check on us to make sure we weren't troublemakers. There just ARE cultural differences.

          • can you blame them, when the authors themselves encourage drinking and socializing over academics?

      • You are right. Jews are for the most part white and thus they benefit from white privilege. Asians are a visible minority and they do not. The situation of Asians is different from that of others and unless you yourself are Asian then you will not understand. Anybody with any sort of education in sociology understands that the "model minority" social construction of Asians is a lie and a fabrication designed for twofold purposes, to use Asians as a bludgeon against other races claiming that their problems are not systemic nor structural, and also to dismiss injustices towards Asians by claiming that they do not suffer discrimination.

    • I really don't think what those students were expressing was a sense of entitlement. The high school I went to in Vancouver was largely populated with teens of various forms of Asian descent, and it's true that that created a very high academic pressure in my school. I was a reasonably good student and I was on honour roll every term but when most students are getting on principals list every term, it's hard to take a sense of pride in your lesser accomplishment. I once got back a test on which I had gotten 83% which I was fairly pleased with, until a friend who was of Chinese descent started agonizing about her test mark, which was two percent higher than mine because it was what she called "an Asian fail". I don't think its right to limit the amount of Asians a university admissions board takes into their school but I also don't think it's fair to look down on students for choosing to go to schools with less academic pressure. Also I am "white" and picked a smaller university over one like UBC but I didn't do that because I would "rather drink than study" and I find that insinuation both racist and insulting.

    • Perhaps the Asian students are mingling and developing social skills, but with other Asian students. Who says that they necessarily have to do their socializing with whites? As well, the whole thing about being well rounded students who have interpersonal skills is hogwash. It is just another way of discriminating against Asian students as is historically done in the US. This is the line that has been fed to the public so it doesn't sound like the racist discrimination it is. University in Canada deals with quantifiable grades, not qualitative measures such as "he's a personable guy with good social skills".

      • I'm not scared by Asians. They pose no threat to me, academically. I agree with you, let university admission be based primarily on academic achievement.

        I have to admit though, this superiority complex that many Asians are displaying in here is, quite frankly, disappointing. Maybe we should all just shut up and get back to work /lives?

    • It's not only a "help, there are too many Asians at my school!" This article is about complaining that "too many Asians" take the place of a white Canadian in university. They also reinforce the idea that Canadians drink and party their way through university is not necessarily true! Asians always study get high marks and don't party much through university is not always true too. This is more or less a "script" for a Hollywood movie that reinforces stereotypes. (a highschool or community college film production project)

  8. This article is going to stir a truckload of controversy, but as a Chinese-Canadian myself, I don't think it's that bad and raises some interesting issues. But a few problems I have with it:

    -The article begins with what is essentially anonymous sources. Come on, MacLeans, you know better than that.
    -The authors have a very subjective narrative, which is fine, but do not take the opportunity to call out clear cases of racism and igorance, and appear a little to willing to let such things slide.
    -There is a missed opportunity here to explore what the real issue is for a lot of universities: their dogged pursuit of international students, to the possible detriment of Canadian students of any race. Please, someone ask Stephen Toope why in UBC's MBA program Canadian students, again of any race, are the minority compared to international students. They have even fewer Canadian students, of any race, compared to international students from Asia alone. How's that working out for them?

    • I believe MacLeans knew exactly what they were doing. Controversial article, whether it was written well or not, was going to go viral with all the social media outlets on the web available for free. I'm sure they considered what kind of an uproar this would cause and decided to go to print with it. Just looking at the number of comments, likes and links to this article passed on by readers of the article, I'd say they succeeded at what they wanted to do.

    • maybe you just need glasses. :( i hope you can afford one

      • Tell that to the creators of avatar…or maybe the guy that started circ du soleli…….

        he sure is a beggar on the street.

        Engineers/ doctors and Lawyers totally under estimate Social Sciences and the Arts.

        We bring in a lot more money to an economy than you most people think.

    • It is poorly written, to a shocking degree.

  9. Why should race be a focus? Even among white people there are people with blond hair, black hair, brown hair, red hair. In terms of eye color there is blue, green, hazel, brown, black etc… However, white people still consider you white even if one person has blue eyes and the other has hazel. White Canadians treat other white Canadians the same, despite certain differences in physical characteristics. In the ideal world, race, ethnicity, skin color, whatever you want to call it, will eventually blend in and be considered at the same level. Just another characteristics, nothing really special, nothing to focus on, nothing to decry, nothing.

    Race should not be a consideration, I personally have the view that skin color should be less of a focus. Accept everyone as humans, and any physical difference as only characteristics, nothing more. Like blue eyes or brown eyes will not single you out among the white community as being different, I don't think skin color should be a basis for profiling either.

    • Why focus on race? Because relevant generalizations can be applied to them. It may be admirable to be politically correct and ignore race, but foolish at the same time.

      As a Canadian-born Chinese male, I'm not offended by this article. The generalizations are true, but we need to all recognize them as such: "generalizations." It doesn't mean that all Asians are like this, it's just a recognized pattern. Once we recognize this fact, 30% of the comments here can be deleted.

      As generalizations, the following are true:
      1. Our Chinese parents emphasize academics and tell us to stay home and study instead of going out.
      2. A high percentage of Asians are not well-rounded and lack key social skills that are needed in the real world.

      The problem with this "meritocracy" is that it is skewed toward academics and is not a true gauge of how successful the individual will be, though it depends what field you're referring to.

      • Who are these Asians, exactly? I go to one of the Univiersities mentioned, and to be quite honest, the Asian students, just like everyone else, seem to have perfectly good social skills. I'm not entirely sure where these ideas are coming from.

        • There is a racist undertone to this article. This is the typical trash that Mcleans features, which is why I refuse to subscribe to it.

    • I agree with you wholeheartedly. However, this article makes no mention at all to skin colour or other physical differences, it focuses solely on cultural differences between Eastern Asians and white Canadians/Americans.

  10. I mean, aren't we all Canadian?

    What does it mean to be Canadian? Or even, American?

    We are not of aboriginal/native descents, and nobody else is more Canadian than them. If you care about your school and is in it to compete, you do just so. Yes, no social life because of the academical side of it? Why not party hard and study hard? If you are not capable of doing so, then party, LESS? University should be enjoyable, it is a lifelong exprience, immensely valuable, don't waste it away.

    Please remember how much you are paying, no matter how you pay, for the tuition fees. Yes, Asians should integrate into the Caucasian population as well, how about vice versa? How about with all of the other "minorities"?

    Think about it.

    • If I wanted to "integrate" into Chinese culture, I would move to China. I sit on a bus and in University classes everyday in CANADA and feel like I am a foreigner. THAT IS NOT FAIR. If people from other cultures want to move here, go nuts, but learn French or English, and have pride in being CANADIAN… just like the rest of our ancestors did.

      • Lena, you seem to suggest in order to be a proud Canadian, you have to speak nothing but English or French. Might I remind you that Canada is recognized as an immigrant country and a multicultural country – with "visible minorities" being the fastest growing population cohorts. English and French may be the language that the settlers and forefathers chose for Canada, but it is by no means the sole language of Canada anymore. If your peers want to speak their language on the bus or in their class, so be it. Integration and communication are two-way streets. If you don't want to interact with them, don't – but don't criticize when they don't want to interact with you. And it's laughable that you mention French – I wonder how many anglophones "integrate" with the francophone community.

        • Steffi – so, you're telling me that if someone moves into my home country and refuses to learn one of two OFFICIAL LANGUAGES, I either have to deal with it or learn to speak theirs?? Did we not learn anything from the whole Native – European issue?? Canada is – for your information – a real Country, we are not a work in progress.

          • then you should learn Cree as this is not your land or my land, but native land

          • So what you r saying is, it is not ok for ppl from Canada to not feel at home because there are massive amts of immigrants.

            imagine this, you r aboriginal and then a bunch of europeans start to pour in and take over. how "at home" do you feel then? how can u criticise when your ancestors did the same things? lena go home

          • poster i'm pretty sure that is what she was saying – to LEARN from the "native – european issue" obviously we cant go back in time and change history, but we can love the canada we live in now. Your mom should have swallowed.

        • Yes, unfortunately the "multiculturalism" only began with the Multiculturalism Act in the 70's. That's less than half a century ago right? So shut up and learn English and French! I am born in Toronto and I know both because when I visit Quebec I want to make sure I have that sh*t downpackeddddd!!! Lena is 100% Right!!!

          • Maybe you Asians should take a Canadian History course if you love this country so much!

          • imagine how many Asians you are referring to got A's in highschool history classes haha you are so laughable

          • Rice is good as it's packed with antioxidants, and there is a reason why Asian population looks younger when they age compare to Caucasian folks lol

            How would those "people"'s money be taken by the Asians if they work hard for it too? Mind you this world, a fairly North American centralized world, we as North Americans have taken granted on all other populations in this world, not just the Asians. If you say Asians take money from others, then North Americans take LIVES from other countries.

            Go study some social issues before you be so ignorant. Go eat your cold bread? LOL

          • So everything's according to law eh? Have you been abiding to all the laws set by the state of this country? Have you jay-walked? Have you ever drunk driving? Sorry, Asian people try hard to learn English (one of the easiest languages on earth), while some ignorant people like you refuse to know your own little language but nothing else.

            Sad case.

        • I completely agree with Lena – and I know many people who do also. This is CANADA, an established country with a history of culture and tradition, albeit young. If we were to move to China, we'd be expected to learn their culture, traditions and language to respect them. ANYONE moving to Canada should do the same.

          • Sadly people around the world learn more of the "North American" culture than vice versa.

            Do most of the North Americans or Caucasians move to China or any other Asian countries thinking that the Asians are better than them so they had to move there, or just for the money and the pride of knowing you are white or from North America?

            A lot of Asians (and any other immigrants) move here thinking they are lower when it comes to the hierarchical rank in the society.

            Think about it.

          • Once they get here they fill forums with comments about how awful canada is and how terrible "white people" are. I don't get why they come!

      • I wonder if there's ever a language called "Canadian"?

        If you want to integrate yourself into the French and English culture, why not move to England or France? See the analogy I have right here?

        Having Asians (do you know what kind of Asians they are? I bet you don't, and they know well of which Caucasian you are) in a part of the culture at where you reside or where you get your education. It is fair as immigrants of all kinds have worked hard, and they come here to settle, pay the same amount of tax (if not more than the others), and still being treated like outsiders.

        Heck, those international students pay much more tuition fees than us Canadian students and both the school and the government take full advantage on that.

        Think about it, Lena.

      • I speak English 90% of the time even though Cantonese is my first language.

        But going by your logic, I don't EVER want to see you, or people like you, stomping into my home and forcing English down my throat. Although considering I'm from Hong Kong, I guess it's already too late.

    • university and enjoyable do not mix, I don't know what planet your from.. School = stress, and it's a business to make money off ya,

      • I agree partially with you.

        School is a business, because you pay to get your education.

        However, some can still enjoy studying, partying or having great time from joining school clubs while they are free from their school work.

    • Though "Canada" derives from First Nations in vocabulary (Big Village or Village) – the country of Canada does not. So calling First Nations peoples Canadian is actually a little off. They would likely consider themselves whatever "Nation" they belong to. Objibwe, Salish, Mohawk etc. Canada Day is not a First Nations symbol. Neither is the national anthem.

  11. I completely agree with the majority of the comments. This article is inflammatory for no reason other than to sell magazines. Besides the state that there are more "Asians" attending university that their demographic in the population would expect (exactly how do they account for international students?), there isn't anything at all to suggest there is any "issue" at all. Integration of the student population is a good goal regardless of ethnicity. If anything the article highlights the wonderful benefits of a meritocracy entrance requirement system in Canada that drives all students of every background to be the best.

    It's deplorable that the article quotes a student with nothing but presumptions about university and it being "Asian" before she attends any university, yet fails to include any of her thoughts about attending the so-called "Asian" university after she actually has some first hand experience.

    • I was thinking the same thing regarding your last paragraph. The girl made that "too Asian" comment, and there was no research or investigation as to where it was coming from. What were her marks like? Did she meet the entrance requirement for that program/school?

      Some teenagers say things as cop outs or sometimes make statements that aren't fully thought out. Is this responsible writing? A couple random quotes are inserted, and now there's conflict between 2 groups in Canada.

      I for one am tired of hearing Asians being the pitted as the opposition. Let's remove race from this article and see what this article really says.

      Some students want to go to university, but don't want to compete with other students academically.

      Thank you Macleans! Very worthwhile article :)

    • As a white female (not only white, but blonde hair and blue eyed) who studied electrical engineering at the university of Waterloo, I'm a touch offended at their portrayal of white girls as only wanting to party and not wanting to mix with "asians". I, like many other people white or "asian" people, worked hard to get into my program and I believe we all got in fair and square….
      btw – I'm now married to an "asian" I met while at UW…..we have two beautiful children and we've integrated together just fine thank you.

  12. I'm a Chinese-Canadian, and some parts of this article is right, and whether we like it or not, we can all most definitely identify which schools are more "Asians" than others.

    Most of the reasons why is that our culture tends to stick together, it's easier to be friends with someone if they know what background they're coming from. You're more likely to be friends where both of you like horses, soccer, and How I Met Your Mother.

    Now switch that with badminton, computer games, and Bubble Tea (which, in fact, most of my "White" friends love, and I love them all for taking up the courage to try it!)

    It's just how it is, there is a segregation, and unless some we all try to experiment in others culture, we'll stay like this.

    I have no problems with being identified as "Asian" (prefer Chinese thank you, as one of the previous poster pointed out, Asia is a continent, not the country that I was born from). But when you straight up assume I like mah-jong or I'm super great at DDR, I'm then insulted.

    Give us a chance, and I also ask that some of us Chinese group to go and try something new when you're not too busy with your work. Go out to a pub, Talk to some other people, be friendly, and just enjoy yourself. We're sometimes a little too comfy in our niche, go out and mix it a bit, and it's gonna take both "sides"s help if we're gonna mix it up =)

    • By the way, it's okay that the demographics for "Asians" are going up, but when you're stopping us from enrolling into universities, then something's wrong. And no, an "Asian" school doesn't HAVE to mean that the school is "unfun, competitive and hardworking". We can be different, and before you judge someone for what background they come from, how about you go up and know them before you hand out any first impressions. I would love to get a chance to make my own impressions based on my character/personality.

    • I like your comment. I went to U of T for chemistry in undergrad (still here for biochem grad school). Most of the students in my program were from mainland China, Taiwan, Singapore or Hong-Kong, and *gasp* we were all friends by the end 4 years! People of all ethnicities just need to make an effort to talk to each other, and we have no problem. Personally I'm more uncomfortable now when I'm in a non-mixed environment.

    • Yes, Eddie, going to pubs to mingle is fairly easy for us "North Americanized" people to do, and even so we sometimes still receive racial stereostypes let alone the new comers.

  13. Asimilate in to society….. Why dont White canadians take the lead and make efforts to integrate minority to mingle? Why do all expect visible minority to asimilate into the society. it should be bothways.Am I wrong ?

    • lead and make efforts to integrate minority to mingle?
      Can you write plain English.

    • If someone moves to Canada it should be because the appreciate Canada for what it is, and not expect it to change to accommodate them. It's not like Canadians are heartless racists, but it's pretty frustrating when there are thousands of Chinese people moving here, only speaking to each other and making no effort to learn about Canada. If you want to cling to your own language (including SPELLING and GRAMMAR) and culture so badly, why not stay in China!?

    • There's an old saying that goes," When in Rome, do as the Romans do." Get it? That is to say, don't expect all persons here to jump into your culture, when you, Asian, or foreigners in general, don't have a working knowledge of English.
      If I was to move to China or Japan, I shouldn't expect them to cater to me, but rather me to try overly to communicate with then in their language.

      • Good that you would try to learn Chinese or Japanese, Beege, if you moved to either of those countries. A lot of expats don't bother, which is why you find expat ghettos. Come to think of it, isn't that a phenomenon you see all over the world? Ethnic enclaves in major cities where Italians, Jews, Chinese, Irish, Indians, Greeks, Cubans, Vietnamese, etc. congregate?

        So what's all the fuss about? If immigrants stay in Canada, their Canadian-born children will be integrated. That's how long the process takes.

  14. Include India in Asia.

  15. These broad generalisations about continents are not limited to Asia. I cringe every time I hear 'North American' in conversation, advertising, and in the news, because people act like the people of North American are one homogenous entity when they are not. Yes, certain countries in North America have some aspects of culture in common, but others are quite different (Canada and Nicaragua for example — and before anyone tries to correct me, Central America is a subset of North America, not a separate continent), making the idea of a homogenous 'North American' culture a bit ridiculous.

  16. Where is Canadian's courage? Imagine now you prefer to choose a "white" university over "asian" university, how about your future jobs? Can you choose to work with asians or white people? When the immigrants came to Canada about 20-30 years ago, they had the courage to integrate into Canadian's university, why does white people complain now? Which way is harder? White people should appreciate and respect the hard work of others no matter their colours.

    • You have a tremendous valid point

      aside from the Western global domination, I still believe the only way to evolve fully is when all the residents of this motherly Earth, contribute and having a common ground to help and compete with each other.

      This world shall be not a skewed view of one race and one race only.

    • Is is about WHITE PEOPLE.
      It is about Diversity.

    • You are perfectly right! Blame the kids who study harder just cauz white kids want more party? Then welcome to the competition!

    • This article should go to garbage.

      This Maclean's magazine should go to garbage and can not be on sale for ever. Either color or white people should learn something from other people's merit and encorage your kids to study hard if you want your kids go to university, find good job and pay their taxes and contribute to Canada. It's common sense. Canada is multicultural country. Don't be jealous and you have no right to blame the kids that study harder. Do you want Canada to be literate country or illiterate country. It is unbelievable.This insulted these kids. That is not fair to them. As Canadians, you have right to express your opinions freely, but you should respect the rights and freedoms of others. Every body has right to be educated in Top Canadian Universities in official language if you can reach their requirements.

  17. So, let me get this straight.

    Students, particularly Asians, who study HARD and don't touch alcohol on campus, are the cause of segregation problems on campus. I see.
    Since too many Asians are in these 'Asian' universities, a change should be made to the merit-based admission procedures, even though the university will evaluate the students' afterward undergraduate performance entirely on a merit basis. Makes total sense.
    "Some students feel they can no longer compete or have fun". The competition is unfair in these 'Asian' universities because the non-Asians feel they cannot compete…So the Asians are making the competition unfair by being smart. Very logical.
    "Some students feel they can no longer compete or have fun". It is also unfair because these non-Asian students cannot 'have fun' during their four years of $25,000+ worth of education. Sad isn't it.
    Merit-based applications are not fair enough, because doctors are humans too, they should be allowed to make mistakes. Right?
    Discrimination in the workforce isn't enough, they gotta start BEFORE you get into the workforce. Great.

    • I would probably say I attend a predominately East-Asian university, and I don't have a problem with it (I'm non-East Asian). I could care less about the demographics of my university. Whoever works hard enough to get here deserves to be here, no matter their race, religion, age, sexual orientation, etc.
      I'm not a fan of the segregation I see though… I try my best to intermingle with other people different from me, because it's the differences that I find exciting and interesting. It's difficult though. Especially when 99% of the clubs on campus are race or religion based (or a combination of the two). Most clubs are titled "Cinese Students' Association of _____", and the expectation is that if you're not Chinese, you shouldn't be at the meetings. I've gotten really dirty looks whenever I've approached different Chinese clubs' booths during orientation weeks' clubs fairs, even though I am very interested in Chinese culture, and my student fees in fact help pay for all of these clubs. I'm really just rambling with this… I just don't like my university's policies when it comes to clubs. Clubs should be open and welcoming to ALL students of the university.

      • I get what you're saying. These clubs are actually supposed to be open to everyone. Trust me, they're not giving you dirty looks lol. They find it really weird that you would join a Chinese club when you're not Chinese. But if you're willing to blend in with their culture when you're in the club, they will be cool with you. What they don't like are people that try really hard superficially to learn about a culture that they have no clue about, but just do it for the heck of it. The reason they hang out with their own race is because of the things they do are related to their background. For example, when's the last time you went to 'sing k', or the last you talked about 'tvb'.
        So the things is that they are not trying to separate themselves from the rest, it's just naturally their interests bring them together, they 'click'. Hope this helps =)

      • Yes, you are absolutely right!… I care no more of demographic, but it seems that there is a certain arrogance from the side of Asian students. Please see my comment on the post below.

    • No. The East-Asians who choose to talk amongst one another in Mandarin/Cantonese/Japanese/Korean/etc WHILE in class, in the cafeteria (while they only eat with other East-Asians) or just out at any social event cause the segregation. I believe that's what the article is trying to say. And please do not tell me you don't see that in university. I'm in first year at Waterloo, and I have never seen a stereotype played out so vividly in my life. I love my classmates who talk to me in English, but as for those who choose to come to Canada to "integrate" with society and then choose to talk their own mother tongue, what's the point of coming in the first place? I am an immigrant, and I can say I still maintain my culture and traditions while balancing my life as a CANADIAN citizen. So if I can do it, so can they. So, my question is, why don't they?

      • So then what about White people who only have White friends? Would you say they are causing the segregation? You can't just blame segregation on a single group of people. If you cannot stand hearing them speak in another language then you should cover your ears. And why would you define being Canadian means speaking English ALL the time?
        And let me tell you something, most of them did not CHOOSE to come to Canada. People don't go to university in order to 'integrate'. They go to get a better education. And before you judge whether a person should hang out with more 'diverse' people, you should understand that maybe people of the same background have more common topics.

      • Well Asians are not the only ones who speak their mother tongues among themselves in public places. EverybodyI see it in all ethnic backgrounds. I am an Asian and I went to a high school with predominantly Eastern European students. During breaks, all I hear is Polish and Ukranians around me. They huddle all in their corner with cigarettes in their hands and talk and laugh in their languages. This happens naturally because English is a second language to them and when they haven't mastered it and it's just easier to talk to somebody who also speak their own language.

      • On the other hand, I know Asians who go out of their way to make sure their kids integrate into the "mainstream" Canadian societies. My boyfriend is half-Vietnamese half-French-Canadian and his Vietnamese father refused to teach him Vietnamese so he will be forced to play and integrate with "Canadian" kids. He ended up getting rejected by both groups. The French-Canadian kids won't accept him because he is half-Asian and looked Asian but the Vietnamese kids rejected him too because he is half-French.

        This just to show you integration and segregation is a two-way street and there is no clear-cut way in defining it.

    • Wow, no one could have said it better than you did. You are right on the point. The authors should have just written these few lines and would have done a great service to this nation in stead of writing the garbage they did.

    • Uh…I'm Asian (Chinese) and was born in Canada, however, I'm NOT smart at all and I had to take ESL when I was young for 3 years because my parents only taught me my native language (vise-versa with my 1 year younger bro) and I know someone who's in the same EXACT situation as me too (including race)!

    • It's just that all the smart people from Asia are here for post-secondary international studies, in which I'm sure everyone knew a long time ago that Asians were profiled as being "smart", so really this is why these "White" people feel this way, which "you" people NEVER took that fact into ANY consideration before, plus, I know how those "Asians" feel, as, like I said, I've experienced it as well, it's because "we" feel really uncomfortable in taking so much time in trying to translate "our" language into English that "we" might as well speak "our" language with someone who speaks the same language as "us" as well! I'm REALLY disgusted at how "you" people discriminate "us" without taking into ANY other considerations beforehand! Like what world are we still in today?! Yeesh!

  18. At least there will still be room in the Medieval Studies courses!

    • LOLOLOLOLOLOL TOUCHE!!!!

      but some light medieval studies are so very intriguing as well, understanding how the western society became the way it is today

      • I'm Chinese-Canadian, went to UofT AND took a medieval studies seminar. We're everywhere! But also, knights and castles are awesome.

    • Best comment yet.

    • LOLOLOL! YES! MY FAVOURITE!

    • Haha well said!!! This is happening in the US too. We have tons and tons of liberal arts grads who can't find jobs. Meanwhile, grads in science, math, business, computer science, and finance snag well paying jobs.

  19. Very good article.
    It is not about Chinese but that
    Canadian universities are lacking fair diversity policies and fair admission rules.
    All they care about just marks and as result many groups are underrepresented (black, latinos…).
    Current policies like this : 50% of white <> diversity but 50% of Asian = diversity.
    It should be like US top school.

    • what does a fair diversity policy mean? an equal amount of each race regardless of their marks? then what's the point of getting good grades in high school then?

      • Your good mark mean doesn't mean much.
        Mark is just PART of selection process.

        • It's part of the process sure, but changing the admission system because too many Asians in the school, that just sounds wrong…

        • So, what else should the selection be based on? how much you can drink? How much drugs you use??? And I doubt your name is Pat Chan…You coward!

          • I have a friend named Patrick Chan and he posted this article on his FB. This very well might be him. So why exactly do you doubt his name is Pat Chan?

          • How ***many drugs you use.

            And yes, it should partly. It should be based on how you interact with others, not how many hours you spend staring at a text book.

        • Well, not being able to achieve 800 in SAT math is a noble cause? Then fight of it, wasp!

    • The school system was invented by Rockefeller in the states. With so many applicants, the most representing way to know a student's academic performance is by marks. If each student needs to be interviewed to be admitted, it would take a long time for the admission process to go through. As well, universities are business and academic institutions. The most efficient way so far is to look at marks. That is the reality right now. Until a new system is invented, marks are the way to tell how good of a student a person is. So get your marks in or go look for other education programs other than university.

    • wooowooo, hold it right there Mr. FatChance. let me guess, you're stupid. hahaha
      1. if you're white and not stupid, you'll disagree 'cause you find this article stupid calling white stupid
      2. if you're white and stupid, you'll agree
      3. if you're asian and stupid, you'll agree cause you've never seen university
      4. if you're asian and not stupid, you'll disgree, cause you're smart enough to know this BS is raced.
      from 2 and 3, you are stupid. muhahaha

      • Actually, I'm black

        • If that were even true, would you say Rosa Parks should have stayed at the back of the bus because the bus met its "black people" quota and shouldn't have intermingled into the "white people" section of the bus?

          all this article is doing is promoting tokenism – it can go both ways, admitting non visible minorities to REVERSE 'diversity' (as we know it to mean inclusiveness of visible minorities) into schools is the same is plain in simply tokenism.

    • Umm… this is academia. Representation or admittance is based on academic achievement not on race.

      Do you feel the same about the Olympics as well? That it should not be about achievement?

      It's funny how specifying races in this article changing the entire tone. Remove the white and Asian references, and the article becomes – some students want to go to university, but don't want to compete with other students.

      What a worthwhile read.

    • What would you suggest Canadian authorities to do to "improve" this "imbalance" of representation, Mr. Pat Chan? Kill all Chinese and Asian students in unniversities? Or, re-instate the "famous and rightful" Act that banned Chinese immigrants? Dare you swear that you're really a Chan? Don't give me those numbers or any "justification" for this racial motivated stuff! If you believe, as many White do, that Canada should be a White only or White majority country, just honestly say it! I would like to remind you that, based on my experience, any non-white Canadians, even though they are the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th generation, they are seen as foreigners or Asians, in that matter! While a new caucasian immigrant will naturally be seen as a Canadians! That's not right, but that's just what the fact of life is! After all, human beings are also animals.

    • Wow. I think you have a terrible judgement regarding this article. Think about it. When universities take applications, do they have a question to fill out asking if you're Caucasian, Asian or any other different race? They look at our marks, our academic excellence and community involvement. We can't make a "FAIR DIVERSITY" … there's no such thing.

    • The admission rules couldn't possibly be more fair! Its based on marks and everyone has the same opportunity to earn those top marks. It really comes down to if you're willing to work hard to maximize on that opportunity.

    • This article obviously targets on Chinese students with an image showing a Chinese flag and a Chinese graduate. I don't think the author just googled "asian students" and these two images appeared. NO, instead he most likely googled "Chinese student with a flag" or "Chinese students in Canadian universities" etc. What is it trying to say else than "Chinese students are taking over Canadian schools, we should get rid of them?"

    • any other rule except ruling out certain race would not work since as long as the rules come out the Chinese and some of their fellow asians will just work hard to get high scores on the new rules also. Remeber how good Chinese people were in the Olympics. The Chinese never knew most those games just a few years ago.

    • There are many asian who can't attend univeristy due to family reasons or not studying hard enough. Why we need to have diversity in University when admission depending on the the grades and the other performance, which all depends on if the students really want to work hard. A very stupid idea of diveristy in University..hey this is not election MAN!!!!!

    • Diversity policy? There should be no such thing. Merit is the only thing that matters. There is no such thing as underrepresentation. Every person is equally valuable. Nobody should be considered more valuable or desirable because they have a different skin colour. You're a racist.

    • Why are you suggesting that people with good grades aren't doing much outside of classroom? I found the opposite true. People who have good grade tend to have more free time to persuade extra-curricular, whereas, people with bad grades tends, to spend lots of time on homework and sleep and eat….
      And university's purpose is to prepare people for research or professional work. Those jobs take lots of training and it's not easy matters. They need people who can commit their time to research and studying.

    • "Sweet's latest study, “Post-high school pathways of immigrant youth,” released last month, found that more than 70 per cent of students in the Toronto District School Board who immigrated from East Asia went on to university, compared to 52 per cent of Europeans, the next highest group, and 12 per cent of Caribbean, the lowest. This is in contrast to English-speaking Toronto students born in Canada—of which just 42 per cent confirmed admission to university."

      I'm glad you support having more Caribbeans, Europeans, and not to mention other demographics like Native Americans in Canadian Universities. THAT would be real diversity. Canada is more than just Asians and white people you know.

  20. cry me a river. if you don't work hard for it then you don't get any rewards.

    whoever wrote this crap should be fired for trying to sell magazines instead of being a journalist

    • BAHAHAHAHHA

    • In case you haven't noticed, the goal of any business is to sell. To disregard the idea that magazines need to sell is to disregard the same capitalistic ideals you also claim to value in your first statement.

      • I have a feeling Macleans will be on the receiving end of a libel suit from a high-paid Asian lawyer who studied on Friday nights and graduated near the top of his class.

  21. Is it just me or is this a terribly written article? Page 2 is full of repeat paragraphs, sentences out of place that destroy the meaning of the properly placed paragraphs, and tons of other errors.

    Is this an opinion piece or has Maclaen's run out of editors? It's hard to take this seriously when there's absolutely no professional feel to it.

    • duh, 2 white people wrote it, what do you think??? KO

      • Not only that, the girl is an intern at Maclean's. Really, in the age of Twitter and Facebook, it's all too easy to see the thin slice of perspective that an author writes from..

        In this case, a very, very thin perspective…

        • I agree, I don't see the point of this article. I'm not really sure what exactly they're trying to say?

  22. "Alexandra" sounds wealthy, which is good for her because she also sounds like she's allergic to effort. Give me a reasonable hard-worker or any race over someone who considers higher education based on "chill" factor or good skiing.

    And, yes, of course I am envious.

    • she sounds wealthy, you meant white "she" is a rich spoiled brat? bravo

    • Maybe you should have finished reading the article.

      • Fair point. When paragraphs were repeating, I started losing interest. I assume they fixed that by now, I didn't get to the last paragraph where the mysterious Alexandra ends up at U of T, marries a Laotian boy, and runs for the NDP.

        You'll also have to tell me how Gossip Girl ends.

        • LOL ILU. you are hilarious. : )

    • no, she just feels uncomfortable immersed in that environment. It can be overwhelming if you're not used to it. But that doesn't make someone racist.

  23. I saw it in U of T engineering…

    Having been a student at U of T in mechanical engineering, I have witnessed what this article says first-hand. Memorizing a book and getting good grades doesn't necessarily mean that you are able to apply certain concepts in the real world. Many students do this (not only asians), and I've witnessed the problems that come with it when they either go into the workplace, the lab, or when they have to complete a project that involves translating concepts into real-life problem solving. All races have this issue, but I think that the article rings true when it comes to east-asians ostricizing and isolating themselves from the rest of the student body. Many don't know how to deal with people. Not ALL of them, but many of them. This is coming from someone who has witnessed it first-hand.

    • Then doesn't that mean it is also the school's problem for not properly preparing the students for the real world? Does the school not care if a bridge falls down and it's their name on the diplomas? Many they should have a mandatory course on socializing?

    • BS…You are not Pat Chan, you are coward, pretending to be another race…..

      • Funny how you called the guy a coward on his name and signed in as 'Guest', no? I'm even willing to show my face, and I think Pat brings up a very true set of points. It's really hard in the context of the article and modern political correctness to say damn near anything without being called a biggot or a fascist, but I agree with what Pat Chan is saying having also graduated from U of T engineering and seen the exact same issues he mentions in the workplace.

        • he's calling PatChan, since he does not believe the 'PatChan' is Chinese.

        • I wanna blame and complaint too!

          I wanna blame the Olympic athletes for training too hard; without them, amateurs like me would win the gold medals.

          I wanna blame the hockey players for practicing every days, without them, guys like me who only play a few times a year would be the national team.

          I wanna blame the Nobel price winners for working too hard, without them, commoners like me would get that price.

          I wanna blame rich people for pushing up the price of brand name polo's. Without them, I would be able to get a few brand name polo's at 20$

          in the end, it's all people's fault, and all we need to do is blame others.

          as long as we don't blame ourselves, that's cool enough :)

          * sarcasm*

          • education is the right. hard working in university as necessary or :pay more tuition or be kicked out of university — if failed the exams…. I don't think that anybody can have the degree from university without hardworking…

    • Agree with you on this one, Pat. In my working environment, which would consider quite hi-tech, I don't see my fellow chinese coleagues are especially smater than the 'white' colleagues. I don't thinkany 'white' should be worried. If you think you are smart and you do not want work too hard for the high school grades you probably is not missing much, but make sure you know what you are doing, other wise, get in a college and it does not have to be the top ones.

    • I think it's more of an issue of engineering students of all races in general being extremely socially awkward and ostracizing themselves from the rest of society. It's the gift and the curse of proficiency in science. This is coming from someone who has witnessed it first-hand.

    • i think if your a white guy in mechanical engieering..your gonna be as nerdy as the asian guy beside you

      • Yes, thank you for pointing that out. Majority of engineers are just awkward, myself included. It has nothing to do with race.

    • Well it's great you've witness this first hand, it seems like just because you've witnessed a minor fraction of east asians in your majour doing this that means ALL east asians must do this and because YOU have not witness first hand other races doing this then they must be doing well socially.

    • it's funny that you are an engineering student.
      engineering is nothing about memorizing books.
      in other word, u can't be good at engineering by memorizing books.
      u are just making excuses because u are too lazy and dumb to study.
      university is about hard work.

  24. This article is garbage. White Canadian students do not think like this. Besides the obvious racist undertone of the entire article, the most annoying thing to me is the way it represents "white Canadians" First of all, on a side note, referring to a demographic of people as White (who could be from Eastern Europe or South Africa, etc.) is no more right than referring to one as Asian (who could be from China, Kazakhstan, or Kuwait. However, I'm assuming that the article generalizes Asian to mean people from the Eastern part of the continent. Anyway, the racist and lazy attitudes presented in the article are representative of only one demographic of people in Canada: the upper middle class to rich kids. It's not a secret that the wealthier kids prefer to go to Queen's, McGill, and Western because of their predominantly white populations, and good reputations without a huge workload. There is a reason why certain other highly reputable schools were not mentioned in the article even though their "Asian populations" aren't particularly high. The reason is that they're not safehouses for lazy rich kids who are going to ride their parents wealth through life.

    • Thank-you!

    • I was at Queen's from 1998 to 2002 and from what I remember, there were PLENTY of Asian kids there. Just not as many as, say, Waterloo.

      • This is out of curiosity. But are these Asian kids International students or do they go to elementary and secodary schools in Canada?

    • There's lots of asian ppl at Queen's and McGill. I just finished up at McGill and it was not an easy workload at all. We are known for having some of the most intense science and engineering courses in the country. But I do agree with your critique…..just not that Queen's and McGill are in the same category as Western.

    • I'm of Chinese descent, I went to McGill…. and what is this "without a huge workload" thing that you speak of? I suppose it varies from faculty to faculty, but in science and engineering, I actually think we had a heavier workload than kids from Waterloo. (some courses had 3 assignments a week, others had 2-3 tests/midterms — I remember studying 16 hours/day)

      Also, I don't know where people get the idea that McGill is predominantly white (which in their minds means WASP)…. Sure, there were many fair-skinned people, but most of them were either Americans, European, Quebecois. There were a couple from the "rest-of-Canada", but they were certainly not the majority. There is a lot of subtle diversity at McGill.

      In fact, it's so bad that the sense of social cohesion at McGill was pretty low — everyone was just so different from everyone else. I'm now living in Southern Ontario, and I sense a much higher degree of social cohesion here because of shared values and culture due to the sameness.

    • Wow – Way to over generalize. Having graduated from Queen's University a few years ago (2007), I can tell you first hand that not all students are "upper middle class to rich kids." Let me tell you something, I graduated as top male from a rural school and got into Queen's based on merits, not on how much money my parents were earning because they weren't earning much. Like many students, I applied for OSAP to pay for the majority of my tuition and received bursary funding from the University.

      Before university, I remember working terrible hours as a farm labourer picking tobacco for several summers to earn money. Yes, there were wealthy people who attended Queen's, but I can say with confidence that each university has its share of wealthy students. You're rant is disappointing.

      So – now it's my turn to over generalize. You're bitter. You obviously didn't attend Queen's University, and I'm glad that you didn't. Aside from money, which obviously was a huge blanket for you to hide under, the reason you didn't get into Queen's is because you're an idiot. All you had to do is work hard to achieve high grades and extend yourself to the community and help out, and you just couldn't do it.

      Actually, I retract my statement. You're not just an idiot, but lazy, too.

    • Hey Dylan you'll make a good pet for People's Republic one day, mabe they'll let you clean their sewers.

      • You realize that the majority of Chinese people living in the West are not communists, right?

        • You realize the majority of Chinese people living in China are not communists, right?

      • Hey Jack, you'll make a good pet for KKK one day, maybe they'll let you lick the blood of their shoes.

    • This article is far from being garbage. While I agree with you stating that white Canadian students don't think like the way the article tries to present, it does highlight a point that is being rarely discussed: high presence of student diversity doesn't mean high interaction between students with different backgrounds. If students of different backgrounds don't take the initiative to intermingle with each other, what's the point of diversity?

      However, my main issue is I have a problem with your assertions that wealthy kids go to Western, Queen's or McGill because they are overwhelming white and the school's workload is light. I am sure that if you study engineering, commerce or pre-med, you'll still get TONS of work to do no matter what school you go to. And as a Western grad, I do see a fair share of Asian student population while I was there (ok, maybe not as large as those in U of T, York or Mac, but still a visible presence)

      One more thing, although often characterized as such, not all rich kids are spoiled irresponsible snobs. Keep this in mind.

      • One more thing, although often characterized as such, not all rich kids are spoiled irresponsible snobs. Keep this in mind.

        Then why don't most of them (the white kids quoted in the article) study their asses off like the Asian kids they're putting down? Could it be that they're expecting Daddy's money to get them through life (like President Bush?) Or, is it that they're really and truly lazy?

        • by the time when they are about to fail school and no one can help them but themselves, I am sure that they will start straighten their lives up and get their asses working. besides, the white kids quoted in this article are just gone small group of people and that doesn't mean that every rich white kids think that they can breeze through universities and think Asians as nerdy. and i think the main problem of this whole article is that it picks a small number of a big group then make a quick generalization like the rich kids are lazy who wants the easy way out and Asians are nerdy who lacks other social skills. Great

      • It's funny that drinking is mentioned in this article. Some Asians are Muslim and it's prohibited, so that excludes them from the type of intermingling these authors had in mind.

        I think that this article could have been important if it was properly researched and well-written. As it is, it was clearly intended as a shock piece.

    • It's not a secret that the wealthier kids prefer to go to Queen's, McGill, and Western because of their predominantly white populations, and good reputations without a huge workload.

      Most of your comments make sense. That particular statement is BS.

      The reason is that they're not safehouses for lazy rich kids who are going to ride their parents wealth through life.

      Aren't you a bitter and envious person? That statement is garbage.

      • Agreed. As a white female, who went to private school (on scholarship), and to Queens (not because its predominantly white) I found Dylans comment EXTREMELY offensive….

        I take it he didn't go to Queen's, McGill or Western…. You are clearly missing some crucial information… that we have a smaller workload?? Safehouses for lazy rich kids??… wow. Just unbelievable.

        What is more concerning is how many people "liked" his comment!! Really guys?!?! Is that what you think of private school kids? or people who went to Queens, McGill, or Western?

        Firstly, have you ever even thought about how many private school students ARE there on scholarship?? Not everyone who goes to private school is wealthy!!! People hear I went to private school and assume I'm some kind of snob… little do they know, my family is not wealthy by any means and I worked my buns off for the opportunity to go there!!!

        Secondly, Queens does have a good reputation but certainly not one for a lighter work load!!! You make your own university experience, if you choose to be lazy and not do a lot of work, thats what you get out of it. That, by no means, makes Queen's a safehouse for "lazy, rich kids".

        I'M offended by this entire article, and I'm not Asian, I can't imagine how they feel about it if I am so offended!!!!!!!!!!

  25. Thanks so much for portraying white-Canadian students as beer guzzling social butterflies with little academic focus. We appreciate it.

    • I don't think the "Asians" are too happy with how they are portrayed here either.

      It's probably best for everyone to just ignore this article.

    • I am gonna skip class this evening, throw out a party, drinking till morning, and having fun everyday …just to fit in with the mainstream society from now :)

    • I'm Asian-Canadian student at UBC and I was even offended by those kind of comments.. mainly referring to Sue's comment. The Asian people I know drink more than my white friends. Keep in mind we live in Vancouver, tons of clubs are known to be "Asian" clubs.
      I think UBC is too Asian and should tone it down on the number of international Asian students they let in. They're annoying and snobby and love to just show off their money

      • Mmm
        You know what maybe it would be worth it to try and understand where the "annoying and snobby" Asian (could this word be any more vague?!) students who "love to just show off their money" are coming from. I'm not Chinese nor Filipino nor Thai, in fact my parents are Irish/ English Canadians, but I spent 18 years of my life living the the vast vagueness of Asia (Hong Kong, more specifically) with kids you would probably label snobby, but you know what dude, different people value different things for different reasons. Instead of whacking on it it might be a little more productive to learn and try understand other people's backgrounds.

  26. "Africa" too. If you tell someone you're going to europe, the next question usually goes "where in europe?"
    if you tell someone you're going to Africa. 9/10 times the conversation ends. Casual generalization or just pure ignorance, you decide.

    • I used to live in Sudan, Africa for 5 years, and all my friends back home kept thinking I was living in South Africa… go figure.

    • Conversation ends because the people you are talking to know very little about Africa. The ignorant generalize.

  27. Now why even bother consider going to university if this thought of a school being "too asian" or "too white" or whatever even pops into your head? Clearly anyone who even thinks this is unfit for academics as their mind is not broad enough for this world.

    • a very unbiased and valid, point!

    • agreed!!

    • I'll drink to that!

    • Being "broad" means thinking about more than just academics… a social scene is included in this.

  28. I am a grade 12 student currently applying to universities. I was originally considering going to Waterloo University but was advised not to do so because it was "full of Asians", and also that the courses and workload at UW was extremely tough. I 100% agree that it is morally unjustifiable for a university to accept people based on their race. Universities should be handing out acceptance letters based on marks alone. However, i will admit that as female of Finnish descent, i do want to go to a University that is a little bit easier and "whiter" than institutions such as UofT and UW. I think that it speaks more about Canadian Culture and less about "Asian Culture" that the students we are raising today are not giving 100% to their studies. With that being said, is the fact that we may be underachieving compared to our "Asian" counterparts a bad thing?? Although you attend University for the schooling, there are many other factors that affect where someone goes to University. Having a social life is also extremely important, not to mention having school spirit adds to the university experience as a whole. Is there a link between the number of "Asians" in a University and the amount of school spirit that a University has? There seems to be. Call me racist for wanting to go to a "white" University, but the fact is I am being honest. I have best friends who are of Korean descent and African descent, yet I think that if I went to a University with student that were mainly of Asian descent that I would not feel as comfortable. A friend studding at University of Waterloo for their second year of their undergrad told me stories about being discriminated against because of being white. In fact, I know many people leave these institutions after their first years in order to go to "whiter" institutions. If a University chooses people based on their ethnicity in an effort to maintain their institution, I can understand why a University would choose to do so.

    • "A friend studding at University of Waterloo for their second year of their undergrad told me stories about being discriminated against because of being white."

      Ironic slip?

    • "Is there a link between the number of "Asians" in a University and the amount of school spirit that a University has? There seems to be."

      Where's your reference for the above statement?

      Also, correlation is not causation.

      May you learn these things at university.

      • You might learn that not everything has a quantitative value. This is the problem I found while attending Waterloo. There are some experiences in life that go beyond the theory you are trying to apply. She is obviously referring to the traditional "rah rah" go to homecoming, football, basketball etc… type experience. This has been viewed as the university "norm" for over 100 years in Canada and the US. Those who simply study and avoid other people (as is common at Waterloo) are not generally viewed to be as productive to society. If one is great with numbers but, can't interact at an appropriate level with other people, how could that person ever be an effective manager?

        The sad thing about Waterloo is that you will get students to show up for Japanese student events or Chinese student events but, good luck getting them to show up for a UW event. Contrast that to Laurier down the street where student groups are much more inclusive and "school spirit" is for WLU not a ethnic faction of the student body.

        • I should add that as far as student organizations go, the same goes for any student group based on any ethnicity. The overall point of the article is that what we actually seem to be ending up with is self-segregation disguised as diversity.

    • I'm at UW for Civil, class of 2013. I am Chinese-Canadian. Within my class I have Chinese friends. I also have friends in my class who are Metis, white, Middle-Eastern, Jewish, Korean, Filipino etc. My class, composed of 120+ people are chill with each other. We don't discriminate against each other. Even in the res, I haven't seen the type of racial discrimination described.

    • I love this hilarious preconception that everyone at UWaterloo is over-achieving. It means that after I mention that I go to UW, people immediately think I'm extremely hard working (which I personally think is great). For the record, you can party in Waterloo as much as you want, and the truth is, University is as fun as you want it to be. As for the fear of feeling uncomfortable at UW because you're white, that is also hilarious. Besides the fact that diversity should not be uncomfortable in Canada, I think you missed one of the main points of the article, which is that the "Asian" students tend to keep to themselves. I don't want to overgeneralize here, but that is definitely the trend for Asian international students, new Canadians, and even second generation immigrants.

    • Sunshine, your university experience will happen the way you want it to happen. Going to UW does not mean you're going to be surrounded by rude Asians who hate white people. You will find the people you want to be with and have the best time of your life. I go to UW, and people tease me that I go to Waterwoo. I am Caucasian. I have Asian friends. I also have Caucasian friends. and Native friends. And Jewish friends. Everyone gets along. Some Asian people are rude, but lots of Caucasian people are as well. Same with African people, and Jewish people, and Finnish people, and the blue people…It all depends on the PERSONALITIES you associate it, not the race. Don't be so blind. Go to school for your academic interests; friends and social life will come after, trust me. Waterloo is also a highly respected school, with plenty of opportunities for social advancement. Guess what I'm doing next Friday? Going on a pubcrawl. With Asian students.

      Bonus: since there are a lot of Asian students, there's also lots of awesome Asian food, like all you can eat sushi.

      If you chose your university based on predominant skin colour and from what people have told you (do the people who told you not to go to UW go there, or did they hear this from their droid Laurier friends? (yes, that was intentional.)), you need to take some classes on social acceptance of diversity and cultures because honey, the world is not white. Deal with it and make your decision based on what the university can offer you for your academic interests and goals.

    • Dear Layla18,

      I am very sorry for your intelligence.

    • I disagree with your statement that University acceptance should be based on marks alone. Sure, marks should be considered, but not the only factor. Like you said, it is important to have a social life. Shouldn't universities see that you are well rounded? And not that you just sit in your room all day studying to get that 99 average?

    • It's sad that young people today are afraid to say what they really feel because they are afraid to sound racist. Everyone on here has construed this article and everyone elses' comments, altered their words in order to accuse them of being horrible people. So many snide comments, it's not even about the issue at hand anymore. I think it's great that "Layla18" is contributing her own opinion, and she is entitled to it. The fact is there is more to University that grades, and considering these facts is important while choosing a University. She is not a racist. If foreign students are entitled to use our education facilities, Canadian students are certainly entitled to their own opinions about it. I am (an older) student as well, and it IS frustrating having classes full of people who speak in other languages to each other, and contribute nothing to (ie) class discussions. That's what I think, and you people calling names and writing little one liners isn't going to change my own experience or beliefs.

    • social life and studing doesn't conflict with each other. but when we are a student, studing is more important than social life. of course, that doesn't means you can't have a social life.

    • I'm Chinese, but I agree with what you mean about being more "comfortable". I think everyone has the freedom to choose the environment they're most comfortable in, since I would rather go to a Asian school than a white one because I'll be more comfortable there. To say otherwise is hypocritical.

  29. I'm a 60-year-old white guy. I don't give a damn about skin colour. Hard-working Asians and other immigrants are what's going to save this country. It's certainly not privileged white kids with a sense of entitlement who go to private schools like Havergal.

    • As a BSS Old Girl of Chinese descent, I'd like to let you know that schools like BSS and Havergal have PLENTY of Asian students who probably have the same "sense of entitlement" you allude to. It's the media like Macleans who seem to think that ethnic minorities don't send their kids to independent schools.

      • most people at bss/ucc/havergal etc are not asian.theyre white and this is fairly representative (as a white graduate of one the toronto schools who went to western)

        • The "most" is not very big. I graduated from BSS in 1998 and I think my class was over 30% East Asian. And no, the remaining 70% was not WASP. I don't think WASPs even made up more than 30 or 35% of the class. I imagine that the numbers have not changed very much in 12 years.

        • By the way, I'm guessing you went to UCC. How did you manage the IB program? Your spelling and grammar are atrocious

          • lol r u an english teacher? i did well , rode on some entitlement and continue to win at life

          • Cynthia, you're completely correct about BSS demographics. My graduating class, the class of 2010, was 45% non-white.

            As a very recent BSS Old Girl, I can say without a doubt that many if not most of the students in my class did not feel "entitled" to a university experience. We all understand that getting into the university of our choice requires a tremendous amount of hard work throughout our four years of high school, and BSS prepared us to tackle that challenge. I chose to attend BSS because I knew that it would help me become a better student, not because I though it was some sort of free pass into the university of my choice.

            And in case you were wondering, I'm a non-Asian studying science on scholarship at Queen's. I have a high academic standing and strong work ethic – not an inflated sense of entitlement – to thank for that.

  30. This article is pointless in pointing out which school is Asian or not. University education comprises of 4 to 5 of a person's life while a career is 20 to 30 years of a life. If a person chooses to wing through university by partying and drinking at the expense of a good career then that is their choice. There are a lot of elite white students as well as Asian students at U of T. U of T is just one of those schools where you have to work hard for it. If you (of any race) chooses to work hard for the degree, then choose the school which requires more work. Otherwise, choose the school which has a more relaxed curriculum. Easy. I don't know what the point of this article is to draw the difference and quote the student's response. Even if Asian students study in math / engineering, it doesn't make them a good engineer in the future. This article completely lacks the point that life requires hard work.

  31. wow, thanks for this offensively prejudiced article. i think it's about time i cancel my macleans subscription.

    • this article was not .
      meant to be "racist" or "prejudice"
      This article represents how many people (mainly students attending these institutions) feel.

      • Hmm, let's see, Alexandra, Rachel, and some other vague generalizations? Sample size of n = 2-ish? Sounds about right to me.

        Here's a counter argument. I talked to some of my friends who read this article and we, and many others, feel that these students are lazy, confused teenagers who don't know what they want in life or have a clue how to get it.

        • Last time I checked, university is where you are supposed to figure out what you want to do with your life. I guess you will just need to trust in the system and hope it sets them on their right path in life. I would also argue that while those attending private schools may be "well off", they also tend to have higher academic standards than public schools. You can't call someone lazy you've never met.

      • As a (white, female, lesbian…I don't know what other boxes I can put my self in for you) student who attends UofT, and has many friends at UofT from a myriad of backgrounds, I would just like to say that I, and I don't believe that any of my friends, hold these beliefs.

        This article's tone is racist, and it is ridiculous for Maclaens to have cited some "prospective students", who, frankly, sound to me as if they won't last long in any institution that requires any form of academic rigor, as some kind of overarching sentiment among students in these institutions. If you aren't up to the standard, don't come here. Because, trust me, we don't want you.

        • Hear hear!!

        • If you're moving to Canada from somewhere else, and you're not up to accepting that Canada is a country, with a culture and a way of life, and you're planning to completely ignore that and go about your business like you are still in your own country, surround yourself with only people from your own country, and then expect Canadians to just deal with the foreign language road signs and conversations in their classrooms, don't come here. Because, trust me, we don't want you. It has nothing to do with skin colour, it's about culture and language.

      • Shouldn't we question why non-Asian students are not entering university at the same rate? Afterall, post-secondary educated population is pretty much a universally accepted requirement necessary for Canada to succeed in the future?

      • It doesn't matter what the intentions of the article were/are, the fact is that it IS racist.

        • no it's not. People are just eager to find anything politically incorrect, anywhere they can.

    • yes, i agree!

    • Agree! Let`s boycott Macleans for trying to incite racial hatred!!!

      • You and everyone posting similar comments as you are missing the point. This is exactly the type of discussion a university educated population should be able to have without throwing around accusations of "racism" (real or perceived). I applaud the writer for having the strength to tackle an issue no one else seems interested in touching (especially universities).

        • Why don't we discuss it when white men still overpower in all executive positions? Seems to be just as valid to appoint someone of another race/gender into an executive position regardless of their merit.

    • I'm with you. Pretty disappointed with this article.

    • A university graduate are you? I would hope one who has attended a university is capable of being able to explore both sides of a sensitive topic. If not, you clearly missed the point of getting a higher education.

  32. I agree!!
    why is it that someone asks some questions and immediately gets called "racist"?
    can we not have these discussions ?

  33. Whoever wrote this article makes Maclean look very prejudice. I thought it was one of those magazines where you can rely on the "Top Schools Ranking".

    • I would not rely on MacLean's school rankings, had they written this article or not. Their rankings are based on SELF-REPORTS from the universities – if the universities do not submit survey information they are not ranked therefore making them look like bad universities.

      the best way to find what university is for you is to visit the campus and find out what the university has to offer you first hand.

  34. I know plenty of students of Asian descent, including those at "whiter schools" like Queen's (and yes, there are a lot of Asians at Queen's) who were more or less "forced" into certain majors – usually hard sciences or business (and business, meaning finance, not more creative majors like marketing). I saw this with my very family. I have a distant relative who more or less CRITICIZED my parents for "allowing" me to pursue a liberal arts degree (B.A.Honours in history and drama) because it wouldn't lead me anywhere. I really wanted to ask her whether she'd ever heard of law school (though ultimately, I ended up in digital publishing), and I really regret not doing so. Also, out of all the first degree relatives in my generation, only two of us (out of nine) did not major in something that is what many Asians consider "useful." What's really interesting is that Asians really appreciate performing arts, but while young children take piano or violin (let's say), they aren't supposed to gain such an interest that it becomes a profession.

    • My parents were criticized as well for letting me pursue a B.A. and I had little choice but to attend U of T over other schools I thought would be a better fit for me. I think their logic was, 'Well, if she must pursue this, then it better be at U of T' because then they can tell their friends I go to U of T and then try to avoid discussing what I'm studying in hopes that they assume it's engineering, math or business.

  35. This article is looking to spur controversy where there is none. I love how U of T President Naylor calls this a "non-issue." What are Maclean's motives for writing the article? Are universities going to start screening based on race? Ridiculous…

    • I feel the same way. Kudos to Nalor. The thing is, this article did not provide specific recommendations for what should be done. What's the bottom line of this article? I still don't know.

  36. I'm enrolled in Engineering at U of T and I have to agree, U of T is too Asian. I'm not racist, but when you enter a room and the dominant language is Chinese instead of English, and most around you are speaking Chinese, that's when you know there's a problem. Asians are a majority in U of T and everyone else is a minority.

    • thank you for having the courage to say this!!

    • Do you go into Engineering to learn about engineering or to learn that your classmates are Asian and keep thinking that this is a problem?

      • Is it Canada is multicultural society
        This is Toronto not Beijing
        Diversity

      • I also go to University to have social interactions with people. I'm not the person who spends their whole lives studying and ignoring others. I study what interests me, at the same time I like to interact with others. It's hard when half of them barely speak the language you do or are all associating themselves with their own kind. Believe me, many non-Asians in UofT feel like this, but won't say it in public (hell, I'm saying it on the internet myself).

        • well is it asian's fault that no enough white kids go to engineering in this country???
          Like you most chinese ppl i know do go to parties and socialize way more than you can imagine…
          And if you think this is legit issue and want this solved…why not report to the head dean or something..maybe we can have an open debate about this, actually this is a good idea cuz that would get "chinese cannt speak english" out of the way…

    • And why is it a problem??

    • "U of t is too Asian."
      "I'm not racist."

      Excellent logic. Do you realize that "too Asian" implies there is supposed to be a "correct" level of Asians in the school? Should I assume that your preference would be for "none"? Why don't you worry more about your own grades and getting through the program instead of your prejudices?

      • First of all, I'm not a racist. I have many close Asian friends. The problem with U of T is that they dominate the atmosphere, so in terms of social interaction with others, it's difficult for a non-Asian. Again, in my original post, I've talked about going into some rooms where the majority of the class is speaking Chinese. This is Canada and I shouldn't have a problem not understanding what the majority of people in my class are saying because they're speaking another language.

        What is my preferred level? How about proportional to other races so there isn't a clear majority?

        Addressing your last comment, I work hard in my programme and ensure I do well in it. However, when I go to university every day, I also look to have a social interaction with people. Please don't tell me what to worry about because I can figure that out for myself.

        • I love how people always defend themselves by saying, "I'm not a racist. I have many (insert ethnic group here) friends."

          You seem to be offended by the fact that people dare speak a language other than Canada in English. If your Professor started teaching the class in Mandarin, I can understand the issue you would have, but how is understanding your classmates' conversations in anyway important to your education and your well-being? Also, you yourself have stated that you have Asian friends; to me it seems that you're not having trouble finding a social life in university, despite the overwhelming "Asianness" you object to. Or wait! Is it that you prefer your friends *not* to be Asian?

          You're a racist, plain and simple.

          • He is not racist. It is really quite shamefull how easily people throw around that term these days. In Canada, there are two official languages. It would be helpful if those coming to this country from anywhere would show enough respect to learn one of those languages well enough to communicate in it every day! Language is a real (not perceived) barrier to discussion. The whole point of unviersity is discussion. No one should have to walk into a classroom in Canada where they feel like the outsider because they speak english!

          • There are two official languages in Canada, and I'm sure the students know how to speak at least one of them or they wouldn't be in that university in the first place. It's time you show respect for your fellow citizens by acknowledging that they have a FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT to speak whatever language they want. Anyone demanding people to be speaking English/French all the time is, in fact, A RACIST.

        • Great way of putting it. I go to UW and the exact same thing is happening here. I find it even hard to say it online

        • So you feel uncomfortable because they were speaking Chinese…..I see. You shall never go to Chinatown then. As long as the university still teaches and instructs in English, then you have no reason to complain.
          Imagine the comfort level of an Asian walking into a city hall meeting then.
          And before you tell Asians to go 'mingle', why don't you tell some white dudes to go get some Asian friends. That's a stupid thing to do because you have no right to control anyone' social circle.
          And why don't you go scream diversity to the NBA.

          • It's not like the White person tries to befriend someone of eastern Asian descent; sometimes it does not work out
            NBA is completely different situation; its not like they choose black and white players because that's the trend, it is because they are more skilled; they earned it. NBA diversity has nothing to do with social interactions at the university level

          • And those Asians got into university because they are more skilled. What's your point?

          • It's that when they get into university, they don't interact with anyone but others of the same descent, hurting the university as a whole

          • How does not 'mingling' hurt the university? A university is a business. If the student really really really wanted to mingle and meet new people, university won't be the only place to look for it. Would you mingle with people you had no common topics with? It doesn't matter what race you are, in order to mingle, you gotta have common topics. When's the last time you were interested in what 'tvb' is or what are the rules regarding receiving 'red pockets'.

          • I disagree with FTK's sentiments as a whole, and to alienate all Asians is beyond silly… I won't even go there. I do also have to disagree with you, though — I do think there is value in being able to integrate ourselves regardless of race. In a country and city (Toronto) where we boast multiculturalism, social integration and assimilation is certainly important. It is a responsibility of ALL races, not any one in particular.

            Why only stick to what is comfortable and known to you? That's the best part of living in a country with so many different cultures — why not make an effort to try and get to know the lifestyles and values of those around you? Racially-exclusive cliques of any kind can really hinder full acceptance (not just tolerance) of one another. I'd like to think that Canada's multiculturalism extends beyond that.

          • How people wish to interact is their own choice. Who are you to say otherwise?

            I'm curious to hear what you consider to be "hurting",

          • thats what frosh is for

        • I hear you. I don't believe you are racist.

          My only thought is… "Hey… when in Rome…."

          When I go Little Italy, there are Italians there. When I go to Little Jamaica, there are Jamaicans.

          I've visited friends in various universities in Canada and the US and you know what? There are Asians there. They like to pursue higher education. It is what it is.

          There are 2 options. Leave or make the best of it. I'm sure professional athletes face similar situations when they're the minority.

        • This is canada, and you should be comfortable with multiculturalism. Learn to integrate , i bet all those students speak english as well. Hey thats cool you have asian friends you are a saint! I am asian (My family helped build Canada 100 yrs and counting) and I have white friends and let me tell you i think lots of them are pretty racist about lots of topics and issues. I went out to a friends party last night and heard the same asian joke from 6 people there asking if the asian worker there was my uncle… I would say that you are racist but non-racist people can still be offensive. Though you might feel like you are in the right as an Asian I am offended by your comment. It is not a problem 1/4 the worlds population is asian.

        • exactly, this is Canada, this is the country that is so free that people believe "i might disagree with what u say but i will fight until death your right of saying it". And yet u cant even stand a group talking in a different language. Hypocrisy much?
          And again, it is not the asians fault that other kids hates engineering.. promoting engineering in other racial groups is what you need to do, not blaming on asians..
          BTW, I also see romanian kids in my class speaking romanian, ukranian kids speaking their language while speaking broken english…and no one gives a crap?

    • Again, so what if they are a majority? Your own president said it's a non-issue and most would probably agree with him…the man is a Rhodes scholar, I'd take his word over most people's…

      • His opinion isn't my opinion. I don't care how many degrees he has, his issues are different from my issues. The more people = The more tuition.

      • doesnt matter if he's a rhodes scholar. he's managing the reputation of his university. wouldn't look good to donors and benefactors such as the Smith Family if 80% of students are asian and he said it was a problem

    • I normally try not to feed trolls, but, seriously, how is this a problem? What do you propose to solve "a problem" like this? Shall institutions allow x number of people from skin colour c, and y number of people with religion r, and z number of people that like the ice cream flavour f? You know because that way, the problem might go away and you will no longer be part of the minority. Since you seem to imply that minority is a bad thing, what do you do to improve the minority situation in other areas?

    • I went to UofT too – but my political science and art history classes were too white.

      • It is funny how this post has +3 rating whereas posts that say "too Asian" has -50 rating. If one is racist the other must be too.

        • That's because UofTStudent2's comment was meant as a joke, just in case you didn't catch that..people appreciate humour, not racism.

      • Finally! Someone who gets it!

    • I know you're not an English major, but when you write "I'm not racist, but" it means that yes, yes you are indeed racist.

      Hope that helps.

    • And why exactly is it a problem if Asian students dominate at U of T (which, by the way is untrue, I go to U of T, and Asians are not the majority). And if people around you are speaking Chinese? Is it that you are suddenly thrown out of your comfort zone? I can see it being an issue if your prof was lecturing in Chinese because, hey U of T is an English medium school.

      Asia is a big continent and not everyone on it speaks Chinese. AND it is not just "Asians" that hang out together… once again Asia is neither a culture nor a nationality… its more likely what you are seeing are groups that share linguistic and cultural backgrounds… for example… people from Hong Kong speak a different language and share a different culture to say, people from Beijing or … Haerbing, and will then probably hang out with other students from Hong Kong — because they relate, over food, pop culture, missing hk, not getting how things work in canada etc etc…. And, its not just "Asian" students who hang out in groups, Greeks do it, Slovenians do it , Poles do it, Columbians do it… if you haven't noticed… people in Toronto do generally tend to hang out with their "own kind".

      And you have to wonder why people do… from my experience people who I have met who are "true Canadians" have rarely shown a genuine interest and open mind with trying to understand my background. I've heard outright racist remarks and ignorant comments from many of the people I have met in my 2.5 or so years in Toronto. It makes me sick… I don't want to have anything to do with people like that.

      By the way, you are racist. I know it's a hard thing to admit, so I'll say it for you.

    • What kind of solution do you propose to the problem of "U of T being too Asian"? Kicking out all the Asians? Isn't the problem here simply that they're speaking Chinese, and not speaking to you? Why don't you try to be part of the solution instead of perpetuating the problem by resenting Asians? Multiculturalism cuts both ways – if you tried to talk to the Chinese-speaking students, I imagine they would speak English back to you. If they don't, hey – at least you'll know how they feel being ostracized by "mainstream" society.

    • Does Asian equal Chinese? Are you sure you meant too "asian"? Or too "Chinese"? Or actually, was it Mandarin? What dialect? Were they Canadian-Chinese students or International Chinese students? You cannot generalize all Asians into one category. By using a blanket term like "Asian" you are generalizing the diverse cultures, ethnicities, languages, religions, etc. into one.

    • If you ever go for a PhD you will find you will be advised to go to another place for diversity and learn new languages because it's actually a good idea in this globalized world.

      In Canada, there's more than one official language. English is not the be all and end all for Canadian standards.

      • My father was in mathematics and had to learn German, and Russian as requirements in his "English" university studies. Wouldnt you find that there's actually more numbers, parameters and symbols than words in Engineering?

    • Chinese is no more a language than British.

  37. This is diversity not discrimination.

  38. Agree.

  39. I'm white and I also went to the University of Toronto, it was hard, but way better then that other school I went to…. Havergal College. That was definitely a school for stupid people.

  40. Good for you!

  41. Spoken like someone with excellent social skills him/herself.

    By using quotes around "discriminate" I guess you think it's not actually discrimination then, eh?

    To follow your logic, I guess all those countries in Asia and corporations founded and run by Asians aren't leaders?

    Epic Fail UW Student.

    • Written by a student person who will earn $40,000 for the rest of his or her life and never get a raise.

      • Written by a troll who earns nothing because he's too busy trolling comment sections from his mom's basement :P

  42. There are two things that irk me about this article.

    First, it says that Asian students segregate themselves largely because of bullying and social ostracism from the rest of the population. I'm interested in finding out what the author based that on. Having spent several years at the University of Toronto, I find this extremely implausible, and I think most other people would as well. Asian students are segregated from the rest of the student body because they are culturally and linguistically different enough that there isn't really the ability there to get involved socially with the rest of the population. Imagine that the situation was reversed and Canadian students were sent by their families to study at universities in China or South Korea. Armed with Canadian cultural sensitivities, heavy Canadian accents, and a limited ability to speak Mandarin or Korean on an everyday social level, we would probably congregate in groups of other Canadians rather than intermixing with the rest of the population.

    Second, it suggests that the reason Canadian students don't want universities saturated with Asians because they don't want to work as hard to compete. This view is based on a handful of anecdotal stories that the author has derived from… well, somewhere. My feeling is that this is a very incomplete picture, and it's kind of insulting. Much of the student body of the University of Toronto is white and Canadian born. Apparently they weren't afraid of the competition. Maybe some of the people you quoted were just too dumb to go to U of T anyways.

    • Asian students are segregated from the rest of the student body because they are culturally and linguistically different enough that there isn't really the ability there to get involved socially with the rest of the population.

      I'd say it's more than that. There's no REASON to try to get involved socially with the rest of the population. Why join the "University Video Game Club" when you can join the "University Asian Students' Video Game Club"? Why go on the Student Union organized trip to see the Blue Jays play when you can go on the Asian Students' Association's organized trip to see the Blue Jays play?

      To me, the issue isn't the anecdote of the libraries that are filled with nothing but Asian students on the weekend, the issue is the anecdote of the Asian student who can go an entire year successfully studying at an English university in Canada without ever speaking a word of English.

    • Well said. I made a similar comment yesterday that seems to be deleted.

      Were both the (teenaged) Havergal grads accepted into U of T? Is it possible there were other reasons they went to Western instead? Sometimes youths say things as cop-outs or without fully thinking things out.

      It's irresponsible of this writer to colour this article by with these quotes. Remove racial references and this article becomes – Some students want to go to university, but not compete academically with other students.

      Thanks Macleans!

  43. Attention Asians: Please don't study so hard, because you're making the slackers who want to party at university look bad. Also, please apologize for taking your studies too seriously, but do it in a quiet and demur manner. Bowing profusely and speaking English with a heavy accent will endear you to those people who subscribe to the stereotype of Asians. Finally, don't congregate in groups larger than four or you'll be called an Asian gang. Yeesh.

    Imagine the outrage if this article was about professional basketball being "too black." Remember the racist who tried to organize an all-white basketball league? Put this article in the trash.

    • this is true. i hope a gang of asians pops a cap in someones a$$

  44. Do you understand what diversity means? No one is discriminating non-Asians because of their race here. They are being judged purely on their marks and academic achievement. If they had just as good marks as these so called smarter Asians, then there wouldn't be this problem..

  45. I see what you're trying to get and I agree that the 'racism' brush is applied too broadly sometimes. At the same time, you must realize how easy it is for people to misuse statistics and then say "I'm not being racist, it's just the facts." So let's parse this out rationally.

    Students of East Asian decent are over-represented in certain universities relative to their distribution in the general population. I am assuming you are citing the Census or some other source. Actually, 4.3% of the population sounds a bit low to me. Anyway, your point is that this fact alone is worthy of discussion.

    So let me throw that question back at you. What discussion should we have? If that discussion revolves around preventing Asian students or students of any specific ethnicity from attending universities when their marks and achievements warrant their selection, then that IS racist. So it really all depends on where you want to go with this. The hypothetical statistics you mention would be interesting to discuss, but that's not what's happening here is it?

  46. The authors of this article handled this subject with all the sensitivity of a drunken fratboy at a 1950's freshman hazing.

  47. But the point of affirmative action type programs is to deal with systemic discrimination. If anything white students are the beneficiaries of whatever residual discrimination still exists in the admissions system, and they still can't compete. Affirmative action or similar policies to admit less qualified people who already have many advantages just doesn't make sense.

  48. Just so this is clear, I want you all to know my comment was taken out of context. I was referring to students in demanding programs in residence suites or apartment style dorms – definitely not “Asians”. But hey, if an out of context quote is the only slightly negative thing they can find from an interview that lasted well over an hour… I’ll let Maclean’s have this one. It’s too bad they never mentioned the countless opportunities, incredibly diverse programs, clubs, services, and activities Waterloo has to offer.

    • I have a feeling the authors had two types of university students in mind: white Canadians, who like to drink and party and never take their education seriously, and Asian Canadians, who are socially backward robots who are book smart but life dumb. It's a pity they had already decided which one they were going to pidgeonhole you as.

    • This is a very divisive and borderline inflammatory article. If you and your school have been misrepresented by the article author and Maclean's, you really should take them to task over it.

  49. I can top that. I got kicked out of my first year of engineering.

    • Score!!!!

    • I can top that. I'm Asian AND I got kicked out of first year engineering. You can tell my parents didn't beat me enough, lol.

      • Lol. Not only did I get kicked out of my first year of engineering, but I told my Chinese parents that I was going to become a writer. I'm still writing and they still haven't forgiven me. : )

        • Is your name "Tao Lin" by any chance?

          • No, sorry. I'm not Tao Lin. I'm from an older generation. My name is Marty Chan. My claim to fame is a play called "Mom, Dad, I'm Living with a White Girl."

  50. I'm a second generation Asian-Canadian and no, I will not feel sorry for Asian students who actively choose to segregate themselves. Entering another country and its culture is like entering someone's home. Don't expect them to replicate your home to the T. At least take initiative to speak more English, experience and learn about the culture, and attempt to make new friends. Of course there are the neigh sayers who want to focus solely on academics. Why? You'll be likely to have stunted your cultural interpersonal skills in a multicultural country, you'll have problems with time managing multidimensional living, not to mention the stress. "But my parents…" or "I don't want to try" are stupid excuses. Grow up.

    "…competing with Asians…requires a sacrifice of time and freedom they're not willing to make."

    Why not? That makes you almost as bad as self-isolating Asians! Do they expect things to be handed to you? THAT would be unfair. Asians among others are a minority on the whole with Whites still being the majority. However, that isn't an excuse to not work harder or at least try. Grow up.

    Whatever race, at least try to make bridges and work to the best of your ability.
    This article made me mad.

  51. The problem is not the Asian segregation, but the fact that many of the students are being FORCED into these hard science majors by their parents. In other words, they might not want to be there, but are there because of their parents. This is something which has been a problem for well over 20 years and really needs to be looked at. However, we are afraid to because of the "race" factor. Take it from me, a CBC (Canadian born Chinese) who know people who've been through this. I'm just glad that my parents are okay with me being in digital publishing! :)

    • Asian segreation is a HUGE problem at uoft. As a black UOFT student. I know that for a fact.

    • What is a Canadian Born Chinese…. if you are born in canada, you are canadian. I'm not a CBW, I'm a canadian.

    • Just exactly how many Asian students are forced , and how many were there by choice? There's no data on that. I also know many Asian young adults who are high school dropouts, or took extra year or two to finish high school.
      I think part of the reason why Asian youth tend not to choose "non-Asian" majors such as forestry is that they dont' know what it is about. Do forestry students just go chop wood? Neither do their parents know what forestry is about. But they know scientists mix chemicals in labs, and IT ppl work on computer stuff.

  52. The biggest problem with this article is that there is no point to it. I think the Macleans editorial board needs to put more thought into what they publish. Sure it's controversial and it bumps up your readership (like it has now), but at the cost of humiliating an entire culture and perpetuating stereotypes? I think that crosses a line and you should all be ashamed of yourselves. On the topic of diversity, how diverse is your editorial board?

    SO WHAT if more Asians are getting the competitive spots just because they are working harder? There's no point to this article aside from singling out Asian kids and parents. Is this article suggesting that we limit the number of Asians in certain programs? This article is merely stating the obvious but it also carries racist undertones, not to mention GROSS generalizations regarding Asians in university. If there was an article about too many Jewish kids were in finance and business programs, the public would all cry anti-semitism. So how is this article not racist?

    I was HEAVILY involved in non-cultural clubs during university, but at the same time, when my friends (both asian and non-asian) were busy drinking their faces off, I was preserving my brain cells and relaxing without alcohol. This is not a choice I made because I'm Asian, but because it was the responsible choice.

    As an ASIAN medical student, I was NEVER pressured into medicine. I never saw a broom stick held to my face. It was a decision that I came up with on my own having quit my job in finance after one year. Sure, my parents put an emphasis on academics but they also ensured that I was also in other extracurricular activities (and NO, not just piano…sports were included too). But again, isn't this just GOOD parenting as opposed to Asian parenting?

    I'd even go as far as to say that parents who don't discourage kids from binge drinking (whether in high school or university) are negligent, so how can you expect your kid to succeed in that type of environment? Of course your kid is going to be out-competed on all levels. Maybe you should start adopting some Asian values. Stop putting the blame on an entire culture, it's always easy to shunt that guilt as opposed to taking responsibility.

    • The article IS racist. I'm not Asian, I'm Jewish–and we're BOTH Canadian. This MUST be responded to and not allowed to slide.

  53. here's the thing, cry baby hillbillies need to stop whining & crying because i took their son's position in b.school because i'm asian. that discounts all the hard WOK (lol!) i put into getting into and graduating from university. if i was white, everyone in hazard county from bo, uncle jesse, daisy to cooter would be singing my praises for me being such a hard working WASP. in otherwords white people need to stop acting entitled and start working harder. asian people from bum-suk kim, ming wong to fujimoto need to stop playing your stupid mahjoong games, speaking digit code language, wearing your retarded hello kitty wear, putting those STUPID stuffed animals in your car and start assimilating in the country you chose to immigrate to. its so annoying, no i don't want to know who won the ping pong match between wing wong and wing fei last night, no don't want no kimchi fried rice, don't want to know who won the boollywood award in bombay. bottom line white folks need to spend more time in the library and asian people need to start assimilating and socializing more, then we'll have the best of both worlds, having smart and nerdy party animals woo hoo!

    • as an asian bschool grad, i am embarassed by your writing style. learn to write without racist generalizations and stupid vernacular.

      • bo hoo for you if don't have a sense of humor you nerd

        • I don't think it's because Stan doesn't have a sense of humour. I think your statements are a little angry and diminish your point of view.

    • hey man. i'm Canadian as the next person but why do you care so much that i care about Bollywood. why is it cool for white people to watch bollywood movies, say namaste at yoga all the time, drink chai, make sushi, and use chopsticks perfectly but its not okay for the 2nd generation kids of south or east asian decent.

      screw you and your ignorance and your limited mind. i can wear plaid, watch bollywood, and drink green effing tea all at the same time. THAT'S WHAT MAKES ME CANADIAN.

  54. Clearly a tag-team match is in order: UBC & UofT versus McGill & Queens

    Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!*

    *(Simpsons reference – the hockey episode.)

    • "Kill Bart!"
      "Kill, Bart!"

      • Queen's is very Asian as a school, probably about 30 percent (I went there), whatever Mcleans or even campus newspapers tell you….

        either way – Queen's would win!!

        Go Gaels

        • This is what I think: Macleans is a good decade and a half or two behind in terms of demographics. Also, Asians at Queen's tend to be in engineering or commerce. I was a drama and history major and was often one of two or three in a class (in drama, I was usually the only one).

        • My sister took music at Queens, and a few Asians friends took law at Queens.

    • McGill WINS!!!! ….cuz I just graded there…..there are asians everywhere. It's not our fault that we strive to do well but hell I partied tons, passed out at timmy ho's, played intramural's, was on committee's and still managed to do well in school.

    • I'm Chinese and I was accepted into all 4 schools. I ended choosing McGill because I thought it was a BETTER SCHOOL. I just graduated from engineering this past June. God forbid I chose where to study based on the academics rather than the social scene.

      • My friend Catherine Lu is a professor at McGill (international relations or political science). She went to UofT (Munk) and UBC before McGill. I think she'd find this article so off you can almost laugh at it.

  55. i'm vietnamese (in case you think asians = chinese, vietnam is part of asia lol), been in toronto since grade 10, and currently in uoft engineering.
    I found this article extremely raced and bias (Findlay and Kohler, I assume, to be "white"; personally, i think it's stupid to critically write about another race since you can't never be of that race). I don't tend to hang out around "asians". I don't study study 24/7. I practice sports and dance, hang out, chill, drinking, and in fact, I saw many amazing "asian" students who involve in clubs because it is fun. You CANNOT stereotype/generalize us just from little opinions that you gathered from the so-called "four eyes" "typical" "asians" or those who-think-they-know. many of us possess skills that you think we don't.
    initial question: is this article to excuse for the statistical failure of "white race" (no offense, I do know smart and successful "white" students, and i saw LOTS of stupid asians, no offense), or to say "asians" are smarter that "white".
    can't get a spot in University? scared of getting your ass kicked? try college, the trade is proven to have higher satisfaction. It's about doing what you like, if you don't like it, it's normal to not be able to get "a spot".
    PS: the two girls in the first article have not done enough research on uoft. engineering rocks
    PSS: uoft engineering frosh is the largest in canada, there are asians among the execs, and there are white among Frosh

  56. Whatever race you are you can have your useless college educations continuing to waste your precious life struggling for the definition of success indoctrinated into you by Western Civilization, a definition that is both an unreality and a lie, and one that is inevitably destructive. Except by luck of birth and circumstance, regardless of your hard work, not one of you will ever be among the mega-rich or ever make a dent in Western culture as one of the ultra-powerful. You are wasting your time! There is no struggle to be won, neither competition with another nor especially with yourself; it’s okay to just give up.

    • who the f*** is this guy

      • He’s not a text message/ MSM robot

  57. The article makes it seem like there is a legit reason to go to university, other than education and a career. Social, character building, whatever. I'll have plenty of time for ultimate frisbee and alcohol poisoning when I actually have a stable job. Those college "experiences" are obsolete in modern economic times. The people who are aware of this, act accordingly.

    Offtopic, but I'm American-born Chinese and I can drink most white people under the table when I choose to. Is that well rounded enough for you? Who's with me?

  58. I agree that the issue is worth looking into, but the reason why people are calling this article racist is not because of the issue it is raising–it is the overtone of the article which paints Caucasian students to be lazy, booze-guzzling morons and Asian students to be over-achieving recluses with nothing else than marks.

    If this article focused around the issue of how to motivate Caucasian parents and their children to put a greater emphasis on academics and hard work in preparation for university, it would be a worthy discussion to have. As it is, it tosses thinly veiled insults at "over-achieving" Asian students, as though it were a bad thing to have good marks. That is why this article is racist waste of digital storage that should not be condoned. If you can't see this, I can only feel sorry for you.

  59. You have some really good thoughts Matt, but there are a few things that bother me about what you posted.

    "'Having a social life is also extremely important, not to mention having school spirit adds to the university experience as a whole.'
    I completely agree. But who are you to determine what kind and how much of a social life is adequate?"
    It's their own choice to how important their social life will be during their university experience..Being at a university does not mean you have to study all the time- you need to have a balance between school, social activities,and free time. You made it into a hard university..have some fun while you go through your degree!
    I go to UW, and I would love to be able to meet more people of eastern asian descent. I have met some but those are the ones who can't even mingle and interact with people of their own background because their 'too white'.
    There is a underlying social problem going on at UW, it's hard not to deny it, and this article (no matter how bias, racist, whatever) has just scratched the surface of it.

    • I would say that generally speaking, if you want to go to university and study all the time, that's one of the finest places to do it. I personally might lament a loss of fun and interesting experiences, but how can I negatively judge a student who wants to study night and day? It is university after all.

      I agree with you on your second point and I would never go so far as to say that students of any ethnicity who are openly intolerant of their fellow students are blameless. Certainly there are loads of Chinese students who exclusively speak Cantonese or Mandarin and thumb their nose at all others. But these aren't the kind of folks anyone else would really want to hang out with now are they? This is no different than any sort of other social clique. I would suggest that this is the kind of approach the article and future inquiries should be taking.

      FTK, I would suggest you try to find a different group of East Asians to hang out with. They'd probably be a lot more fun anyway!

  60. People on campus do mix. But don’t be surprised that few students conscientious of how much tuition

    And books cost seldom spend all their money at bars and frat houses.

    The tone of this article is subtly racist. Macleans must be ashamed this passed the editorial board

  61. This article has been quite terrible in general. I don't even want to pick out all the issues.

    I'll just ask one thing:

    According to this article, is the Indian subcontinent part of Asia? Or are we going one step further with all this racist sentiment and grouping a bunch of people together who the racist white-man can't tell apart visually because they "all look alike"? It seems that "Asian" people aren't really representative of all of Asia anymore. Or, just that the editor didn't want the title of this article to be "Help! There are too many Chinese people in my country!".

    • HAHA I feel it's a shame that Indians never get grouped with the Asians.

  62. social life, personally i think, is not something to discuss on media. everyone has their own way of having fun right??

  63. WOW, your comment totally shows how racist you are.

  64. Cynthia, I agree with you – it is a problem that I've come across as well. Should be addressed? I think so, but it's really not my call/place. BUT you can't explain segretation away like you've done by just blaming everything on the parents. Their influence is a problem, yes, but it's an unrelated problem to the majority of the issue of cultural separation that has been discussed here.

    Nonno, thank you.. – well put.

    Steven….you've got a lot of anger bro. Plus the jewish thing went a bit far, (are there a lot of jewish kids in those programs? umm no, not that I experienced – but the Asian thing discussed here is not a racist ideology (kinda like anti-semitism), but an observed cultural phenomena). BUT, agreed on the last part , and congratz on not – drinking, that takes guts and perseverance – I didn't have the will-power.

    • go to a real business school (queens or ivey) and youll see who dominates – jews and asians.

      • or as the Upenns call them
        JAPs
        Jewish American Princesses

  65. I seriously hope this was written in sarcasm or as a trolling attempt.

    • Guys, this was clearly sarcasm

  66. Well, can't say I'm surprised. As an Asian Canadian generation after the baby boomers this was evident in the Toronto and surrounding regions.
    The emphasis on a job at the cost of other skills is and are common place and is long linked to traditional thinking tracing back into Asia.

    However.

    This article is focused on the generation of the baby boomers offspring. Culturally they are still traditional in their though process: where job security and education are ranked significantly higher than the arts and sports.

    This is changing, integration is happening.

    Those in the 7-15 year old age group are not following in the same foot steps as their Gen X, Gen Y parents.
    The changes in both attitude and goals are dramatic.

    Computer Science, Engineering, and Medical school will not the be the 'only' choices for next group of Asian teenagers.

    Come 5 years, this article will need a serious re-write.

  67. Despite there being some truth to this article, I don't think this article is insulting enough to a large percentage of students. Aside from making all asian students appear to be work a holics with no social life and no friends, it also sheds a bad light on caucasations, by making them appear lazy and not willing to work hard.

    Now I don't know about the people the writer interviewed, but there is a large proportion of asian and caucastion students who do not fit the negative stereotype being protrayed in this article. Maybe the writer needs to stop selecting certain phrases from her interviewees, which can be taken out of context to back up her point. Instead, we should focus on the fact that this negative stereotyping needs to be overcome, so that students do not hold these prejudices into the future.

  68. What a terrible, unfocused, embarrassing article.

    A large portion of our taxes goes to funding universities and subsidizing students that attend them. Does anyone honestly think it is a bad thing when students actually go there to learn and achieve?

    I'd love to go to a university full of high achievers! I would thrive on the competition.

    Cancel my Maclean's subscription!

    Oh, wait, I read it for free on the Internet…

    • You made a good point that admittedly, didn't occur to me.

      We're subsidizing a huge chunk of students' educations in order to be competitive globally.

      Why the heck should we choose the lazy party goer who can't compete over the hard-working student regardless of race?

      This article is terrible on so many fronts:
      1. Racist in that implies that we should now discriminate asians despite their superior performance
      2. Racist in that implies all asians lack social skills
      3. Racist in that it implies all white people are lazy and dumb.
      4. That university is a 'rite of passage' for youth and NOT an academic institution

  69. This article, if racist at all, is only marginally so.

    As a 4th Generation Chinese-Canadian, I can completely relate to the so called "asianizing" of our universities. Newly immigrated Asian students in my own university are making it increasingly difficult to participate in socialization and networking events with our peers, probably the main reason many Canadians choose to go to university in the first place.

    Competition should be used in a constructive manner, not as a detriment.

    • I had the same problem with the socialization aspect. At Queen's in the late 90s/early 2000s, the Chinese Students' Association was basically run by foreign/immigrant students. All posters were printed in Chinese, which made it very difficult for anyone who can't read the language to join. I wanted to explore my heritage a little bit, but felt uncomfortable because I had no idea what was going on! I joined the a political organization and swing dancing instead.

      And to the public: Yes, East Asian students join social organizations. At Queen's, there were Chinese language debating societies in addition to the numerous cultural-specific groups that exist at most schools.

  70. Asian work hard because they (most of them) don't have rich mommy's and daddy's who can pull connections to get their below-average kid a job (if they even get a job), or to cover tuition and living expenses when their kids choose to spend their summer "discovering the world aka get trashed in Europe" than working full-time jobs to help pay for expenses.

    • I went to Western. Asian, now banker.
      "Some students feel they can no longer compete or have fun". The competition is unfair in these 'Asian' universities because the non-Asians feel they cannot compete"

      welcome to the real f***ing world motherf****. I work 130 hours a week and can take a lot of pain and sh**. I guarantee I out-earn the vast majority of other white Canadians in my age group. Top kids at the big banks, all Asian or South East Asian or Jewish. anyone with alexandra's attitude is toast – we work harder than you and can take a lot more suffering than you. keep complaining, I don't care, I just cash in on your sh** and you just get deselected. as far as I'm concerned, in the scoreboard of life, the only thing that matters is numbers and you aint got none.

      • you proud to work 130 hours a week? sounds like fun.

        • Sounds like he makes 120k a year when he's 22.

        • Doesn't matter. At the end of the day, he still takes your money, your house, your beautiful wife, and your kids and you live on social welfare and flip burgers during the day and go live in homeless shelters at night right next to a fat, smelly bitch who looks like rhino and still have to pay alimony all because you wasted your time partying instead on studying at school. That sounds more fun, doesn't it?

          • Trust me, he won't get the beautiful wife.

          • actually, the ones who make lots of money and are successful later get on ends up with a beautiful wife. Ask most of the beautiful and intelligent girls out there. they would rather have a man is well off and works hard.

          • And then get some side action from Mr. GQ because moneybags is too tired after 130 hours for even Viagra to work.

          • I'd rather marry a white Canadian with average income, than be a "baller" driving my Aston Martin and married to a stinking Asian banker. Before the 20th century, being a banker or having any type of job to do with handling money like that was considered something NOT to be very proud of. That Asian banker is gonna marry his left hand because no wife, Asian or White wants a man who works 130 hours a week. Get over your stupid selves.

          • lol we'll see when your daugther marries a rich stinking pig

      • God, I wish I was you. Not only do you sound so intelligent, but it really seems like your priorities are in order. Thank goodness we have people like you in our world.

    • Asian students don't have "rich mommies and daddies"? Really? You don't know any Hong Kong socialite types, do you?

      • Most middle-class Asians who assimilated thoroughly into Canadian culture don't. The Chinese moneyed elite demographic really began to explode within the last decade. Now everyone I know who came from China within the last 5 years knows somebody like that, but if you're an English speaker with poor Chinese skills–and this is key–who grew up in the public school system, it's very likely you would not know about them.

      • Of course they do but the difference is Asian students at least spend their "rich mommies and daddies" money on studying and not on drinks

        • …and at club monaco…and guess….

      • What is wrong with having rich mommies and daddies? Are you jealous?

    • Are you KIDDING ME?? Their mommIES and daddIES (maybe you should head back to University yourself!) are the ones that pay $40,000 + a year to ship them over here for education! And European travel learning about OTHER CULTURES is better than North American "travel," where you hole yourself up in a dorm room and don't even bother to speak to people who aren't from where you came from. Christ!

  71. I went to Western. Asian, now banker.
    "Some students feel they can no longer compete or have fun". The competition is unfair in these 'Asian' universities because the non-Asians feel they cannot compete"

    welcome to the real f***ing world motherf****. I work 130 hours a week and can take a lot of pain and sh**. I guarantee I out-earn the vast majority of other white Canadians in my age group. Top kids at the big banks, all Asian or South East Asian or Jewish. anyone with alexandra's attitude is toast – we work harder than you and can take a lot more suffering than you. keep complaining, I don't care, I just cash in on your sh** and you just get deselected. as far as I'm concerned, in the scoreboard of life, the only thing that matters is numbers and you aint got none.

    • Typical Asian. All you think about is money and numbers. You're a blight to society, because you only care about yourself.

      • im entitled. i work hard and play hard. don't even get me started on how many hours of charity work (1000s) and how many cheques I've written to charity. please. you don't know me so don't make ASSumptions.

      • you're such an idiot to make generalizations. if your name is dong, then you're obviously asian and just insulting yourself.

    • obv not a banker, and not likely a university grad, just some lame lurker. He/she/it can't write.

  72. youre kidding me right. just look at the east asian / african american / pakistani / jewish / stick thin blond hair cliques.

  73. Um, can someone explain to me just exactly what kind of school Queen's is: according to "Alexandra" all the white kids go there, but according to Counsellor Bondy it's where Asian parents want their kids to go. so…Maclean's, maybe you guys should pay your proof-readers more??

  74. I wanna go where all the smiley white women are, like on the cover.

  75. The picture with this article says it all. Come to Canada, use our eduction system but waive a communist Chinese flag.

    • So why don't you strip down, because 90% of your clothes were probably made by the 'communist' population.

      • That's because they force children to work and pay s*** money to everyone else. Read a little

        • Yes, then you should strip down too.

  76. If the Asians are the new Jews, I would say that's pretty good news ;)

    White people: You bunch of complainers. You need to learn to shut your traps once in a while. And stop being lazy and sodden retards.

    Yellow people: Get a life. F**k the wishes of your parents and smoke that doobie.

    Korean people: Stop being so religious. It's f**king embarassing to me.

    That is all.

  78. Man, another thing that pisses me off about this article is how it portrays white kids. People don't realize that not all white kids go to Western, or Queens or McGill. Some white kids are just as hard working as Asian kids and some Asian kids are just as lazy as some white kids. I'm a white kid who works as hard as anyone else.

    I thought racism was coming to an end? Wtf Canada? Peel off the skin and everyone's the same in the end.

    I can't wait until my generation takes over. We will finally end racism and all the other stupid sh*t that plagues this country. There should be a national "smoke a doobie day" and finally everyone will realize how stupid and childish this sh*t is.

    • As an Asian, yes, I'm sorry the White stereotype was so insulting as well.

      My close group of friends are a mix of Chinese and White. What we have in common is that we're all hard workers and did extremely well in school. Yes, we're probably quite dorky but we were Computer Science graduates. We do have a life though – thus, defying several stereotypes (Asians/nerds have no social life, Asians and whites don't hang out together).

      There are hard-working and smart white people out there too despite what this article would portray.

      It's a shame that they took a sampling of only the lazy, dumb and racist white kids and then generalized.

    • There is a national "smoke a doobie day".. it's called 420.

      And this isn't racism. It's just cold hard statistics.

    • Thank you, you just stated what I wanted to say. Be proud of you!

  79. Agreeeeeeeeeeed

  80. Lol this is fking jokes.
    Im an asian girl in waterloo engineering and my class is really white, and I party and drink all the time and get good marks :)
    ASIANS FTW!!!!!!!!

    • Somehow, I doubt that your engineering class in the UNIVERSITY OF WATERLOO would be really white. This is UW we're talking about.

      • Could be Chem or Civil.

  81. This is an irrelevant reply.

    If this were a different demographic, it would be as equally prejudicial with the overtones taken by this article.

    Let's say that 70% of students were female – this topic would be approached NOT with the perspective of 'how can we discriminate against females to include more males' but 'how can we improve the educational experience and promote academic achievement within the high school male population'.

    So yes, this article is discriminatory.

    • I think you're reading too much between the lines, but fair enough.

  82. Uh, thanks MacLeans. You know, maybe it was "asian" of me to review your university rankings and consult my family about university in high school… I'm sure none of the people in my program did that. Oh wait, I go to Waterloo–ergo, all my friends are "asian". Right. Since when is "asian" limited to "self-identify[ing] as ethnically Chinese, Korean or Japanese?" Last time I checked, Iran is part of Asia, so are India, Russia, Indonesia, … I think you're promoting racism–not integration–by failing to show diversity in university experiences and by simply writing about that student who "identifies as 'completely whitewashed,' a 'banana'."

    Oh, and if that's not the cherry on top of the banana sundae, I really appreciated what you were going for when you ended your bigotry masterpiece with the fairytale ending about the disenchanted WASP: "But [Western] didn't suit Alexandra. She now studies at U of T."

    Where are your articles and dialogues on personal growth? Why not talk about values and upbringing in general? There's no need for racism (please, try to convince me that's not what you intended with the words "too Asian")–there's no need for racial packaging at all; these topics are universal. You've really shown a narrow perspective on topics that should be talked about more: we should be talking about race, racism and post-secondary educations–not blindly furthering racism.

    • Yeah yeah Kevin!

  83. c'mon, this is globalization. if you dont compete internationally in universities, u still got to be competing with ppl. from other country after u get a job.

    Work hard, or u will lose sooner or later, no matter what race u are.

  84. this is one of the lamest article i've ever read. Too much stereotyping, too little research. and beside, what's wrong with studying hard if u already paid for it?

  85. Great, let's lump all the "Asians" as a "race" together and throw them in one same bag: homogeneously successful, nerdy, socially unskilled, clicky workaholics… "Asians" in fact form a very heterogeneous group, and their social trajectories are also affected by their socio-economic origins, so don't fool me with your preposterous generalizations.

    I'm disappointed that MacLeans (and some commenters) have so naively bought into the Asian model minority myth. But then, this coming from a magazine that openly partakes in Québec-bashing, that shouldn't be too much of a surprize.

    And the claim that Asians only work and don't party is total s***. As a McGill "Asian" graduate I can tell you that there's a big share of Asians AND a great party life (in which Asians of course take part). AUX CHIOTTES LES STÉRÉOTYPES À LA CON!!!

  86. I saw the TV version of this as well. Interestingly CBC only showed Chinese faces (or Chinese look like faces) and no Indian faces. ARe Indians not Asians? What is the CBC or the author trying to do here? Is hard work not a virtue? If Canada does not like hard work, its universities should admit those students that have the lowest of the scores. I thought capitalism is all about competition? I bet the author is all for competition except when Asians win the competition. What a hypocrite! Education is the foundation of a country. I think Asians should get some credit for injecting more vigor into the system.

  87. I'm currently an undergraduate student at U of T. I can speak specifically about U of T, which not only has an enormous student body (in the 10s of thousands) but is also a commuter school. With such a large student body racial diversity is bound to become more noticeable, simply due to the relatively larger number of students of ethnic minorities. As a commuter school, I'd also say that the majority of Canadian or domestic students commute. Within the residences on campus, or areas around campus, there would be a much higher representation of international students. The difference in university life between U of T and a school like Western or Queens can be ascribed much more to differences in the environment of the campus. Smaller town schools have a significantly different feel, especially with such a large number of the student population living either on or within a very close distance of the campus. Toronto as a major urban center is significantly different. Yes it is true that race may then factor in, as say immigrants are much more likely to move to larger cities, but race is not necessarily such a large factor in determining the “culture” of a university, at least not in the specific case of U of T or other universities located in large city settings.

  88. Let the winners win.

    I'm not Asian but I can relate to this story. I was born and raised in a small hick village in Northern Ontario. The racism and bigotry that I experienced for the first 18 years of my life made me work harder than ever to secure a better future for myself, away from the ignorant proletariat. I worked hard, sacrificed fun times for studying and work, and am now reaping the benefits nicely.

    If the coddled children of the entitled "white" pedigree don't like the fact that they can't hack it against myself or others like me, then they can either work harder, or STFU.

    The problem is that the majority of high ranking officials in academia and beyond are the white parents of the underachieving white children. To ensure the success of their spawn, they have and will continue to employ subjective standards to measure merit. Bill Willinthorpe III is a straight B student coming out of highschool, but BOY OH BOY he can SKATE AND SHOOT A PUCK AND IS GOOD AT "LEADERSHIP" lets get him a scholarship!

    • Best response yet

      • I agree.

    • Agreed, however… you lose points for the last line. Leadership is a critical skill, that is hard to teach and pays dividends in just about any career… don't knock it…. if anything we need more of it.

  89. It seems what the author is trying to say on behalf of "non-Asian" students is this: "We don't like to work hard. We like to party, drink and slack as much as we can. But we still want to end up at one of the top schools. CUZ … it looks cool and we are cool …" What kind of logic is that? If you don't want to work hard, there are plenty of second or third tier schools that would accept you. Just don't expect to go to the top schools!

    • She's wearing a pink hello kitty thingy!
      bhahaha, love it.

  91. Also, come to think about it, if schools start rejecting Asian students and instead accept less qualified non-Asian students, I bet that school's ranking is going to slip gradually and one day the non-Asian students would not want to go there either after a while, because it ain't top school anymore and it ain't cool to go there. Then what is Canada going to do? Switch it around again?

  92. I chose Waterloo because of its reputation of having hard-working students and being 'too Asian'.
    I'd rather be among hard-working intellectuals than partying slackers. Yes, I'm 'white', although I don't consider myself 'white', but rather 'European' or 'Eastern-European'. I only considered applying to the best schools and avoided Queens and Western for their 'whiteness'.

    • Queens or Western being "Too White" seems awfully similar to calling U of T or Waterloo "Too Asian"

      • I went to Queen's and the 'culture of whiteness' concept is complete garbage. The campus is maybe 50% white – which for canada, a country where the VAST majority of inhabitants – closer to 70% I read, are either part or fully white anglo-saxon in ethnicity and heritage, that percentage is well ABOVE the national level of diversity! Any walk around campus will confirm this. just because it's not as 'diverse' as York or UofT – the MOST diverse schools in Canada, doesn't mean its not diverse at all.

        and absolutely the whole 'too white' thing is exactly a similar thing as the 'too asian' – WHY is it bad that there are simply a high percentage of one race in they got there by legitimate hard working means?

    • Right on, man (or woman)! Waterloo is a serious university where people go to get a good education. If you are good, you can hold your own with anyone from China to Patagonia.

  93. Can the author please prove what he is claiming in his title "U.S. to limit enrollment of Asian students"? Where is the proof of this?

    • google.

  94. So apparently the entire continent of Asia is made up by Chinese, Japanese or Korean people. It is only in North America where the 'term' Asian is used in such a gross manner. What happened to the Indians, Thai, Vietnamese, Afghani etc people? Sorry, this whole concept has irked me since my arrival. I too am an Asian despite not being of East Asian descent.

    • It's funny, right? How stupidity just slides in that way into our vernacular?

      Apparently people think Asian is a f**king race, too. I wonder what continent Whites come from?

  95. Macleans editors just came back from Hong Kong. They complained the city was too Asian.

    • I have heard British people in Hong Kong complaining that Hong Kong was too Chinese.

  96. Oh my Lord!

    Do you mean to tell me that here in Canada, Non-drinking, East-asian Region Dilligent Students (let's call them NERDS, for short) who like to study, and Just Ordinary Canadian Kids (just to save space, let'd call them JOCKs) who like to party and maybe attend sporting events, _both_ go to college, and these NERDS and JOCKs organize themselves into different groups and don't interact with each other — sometimes it even sounds like they're speaking different languages — and when they do interact, there is sometimes friction?

    Heavens Above! This completely new, and obviously inherently racial issue — which is in no way made up to sell magazines — must be addressed *immediately*, else it will tear at the very fabric of our society! Woe is us!!!!

    • Haha NERDS and JOCKs…. excellent analogy.

    • That was awesome. Thumbs up!

    • Absolutely! If the Jocks whish to make it to university they maybe should hit the books rather than spending all their time on playing football or hockey.

  97. You're asking the impossible. People are tribal monkeys with face paints.

  98. Anyone else completely outraged at this article's generalization that us "white" kids are just drunken, underachieving idiots?

    • Yea, it's stereotyping Caucasians.

    • I think it's ok to stereotype us, we are secure enough to handle it, evidently. We are all rich too…..funny I didn't even realize. Someone must have hidden my vast treasure. Oh wait, maybe I lost it when I was drunk and rolling around in the ditch somewhere with a bunch of other skinny blonde women.

    • Not all of us, but a large majority of us would rather play sports and party than hit the books (like the "geeks")

  99. Where does it come from – the value where partying, drinking and sports are the highest virtues. If you are good at partying or drinking, that is good for you, and a job in sales, PR or entertainment may be a good fit for you; if you cannot live without sports, well, be in professional sports or do some sports activities in your spare time. If we depend on these three "virtues" (partying, drinking and sports) to build our world, we are in big trouble.

  100. So, universities that are "too white" are not a problem? For the past two centuries, post-secondary institutions in Canada–all its institutions, in fact–have been dominated by "whites". Racism is alive and well…

    • Given that Canad is still about 85% "white" can you really refer to the fact that many institutions in Canada are dominated by "whites" as racism? Most institutions in China are dominated by people of Chinese descent. Is this because of racism in China, or is China just overwhelmingly populated with people of Chinese decent?

      • Here Here LdKitchenersOwn!

  101. I'm Chinese Canadian as well but I agree with this article on the fact that there are just some parents that are overbearing to their kids. Yes, I totally agree that you have to work for your successes, but I do not agree with how traditional Chinese parents almost stripping their kids of a social life just to get their version of acceptable grades. I will not stand for it. I also object any parents who forces their kids from what they love just so that they can have what the parents consider as a "good industry" to be in.

    However, any type of whining saying why are they getting better grades than I am because I rather go out drink and party only should deserve their low marks or even fail right out of their program.

    So I agree with some points but this article was actually unnecessary, how about writing about the partying problems of University of Western Ontario instead?

  102. Asian kids are over represented in top universities and get higher marks, yet the majority of senior positions are taken by non-Asians. Maybe the kids who just want to network and party know what really counts. It is common knowledge amongst job seekers that it is who you know that is more important than what you know. The 1st generation offsprings of immigrants don't have access to this power network so they will have to work hard, go to good schools to try to get in.

    • Or maybe there is still an institutional bias against non-Caucasians in high positions, which would imply that any amount of networking an Asian (or a person of any background) would do would count for less than the networking a Caucasian does.

      • Or, maybe the fact that you can study for a year at UBC and succeed in all of your classes without ever speaking a word of English hampers some students, no matter how brilliant, when they're interviewing for jobs in a predominantly English-speaking work environment.

    • OR maybe because the highest positions are still held by baby boomers who aren't retiring any time soon (and were attended school at a time when they were overwhelmingly white).

    • Isn't the answer very clear? The employers are racist!

  103. haha. Software engineers are so damn cocky.

    • nah b just proud they have a bright future ahead of them.

      • nah b. they are going to get outsourced.

  104. this journalist is such a racist lol it's not even funny. These people should get fired before someone sues maclean's.

  105. I think it's great people are debating the content of the article in such a vigorous and lively manner, but do we really have to cast aspersions on the journalist? Clearly it struck a nerve, which means such feelings and ideas exist in our post-secondary institutions. I thought it was an interesting read.

  106. I bet racist white nationalists wouldn't mind affirmative action in Canada right about now, eh?

    • thanks so much for pointing that out in such a completely non-racist manner

  107. So if you are applying for university and you want to get drunk and party, apply to a "White" university. If you actually want to learn, go to an "Asian" university.

    • What if they're the same university? At some schools, Asian students might as well be studying at another university for all the interaction there is between the Asian students and the rest of the population.

  108. What has happened here is that Maclean's has taken a fairly legitimate issue that students entering university are faced with, and made some sort of racist-segregation mockery of it. Nevertheless, I will address the heart of what I believe this issue is (not that I agree with the assumptions):

    People think that their choice is between "white" party schools like western and "asian" academic school like waterloo. When I say asian, I mean that there is very high academic standards and that the majority of students in programs like math or engineering basically study all day and have no social life (or else do social things in their "asian" subgroups).

    Now, as an engineering student of indian descent who goes to Queen's Engineering…. I present an alternative. My entire program (maybe generalizing a bit too much) studies their asses off and then drinks their face off during the weekends, getting the best of both worlds. I have a summer job in oil and gas that has basically guaranteed me a solid career, yet I take advantage of the social parts of university THAT ARE JUST AS IMPORTANT AS ACADEMICS (above some minimum average).

    • Well, being a Queen's alumna (Arts'02), I KNOW for a fact that you Sci people know how to party! :)

  109. CONTINUED:

    What traditional "asian" parents don't realize is that the connections you make in university are JUST as important as your academics because 20 years down the line, whether you got an 80 or 85 in school is not going to matter, what is going to matter is who you know.

    Sorry for the digression, but i need to make that comment for the rest of my points. I was faced with the same choice after high school. The reason I didn't pick waterloo was not because I hate asian people or thought I would be discriminated against, but rather because I did not want to be in an anti-social school where people do not realize that the 19 hours you spent learning some arcane detail of abstract complex mathematics (as much as i love math!) is utterly and completely useless in terms of your career.

  110. CONTINUED

    So if all the "asian" people want to congregate in one school and discriminate against other people, that's fine by me because one day theyre going to realize that they need to grow the f*** up and interact with everyone well.
    Conversely, if all the "white" people want to go another school and party 24/7 and take meandering 6-year trips through university studying nothing of use to anybody, that's fine too, because in the real world that absolutely does not cut it, and the less competition there is for me, the happier I am.

    The whole issue is irrelevant. For those who want a third alternative, places like Queen's that value both aspects of life do exist.

  111. Sorry, I didn't meanto generalize by saying you must drink to have a social life. That's the way that a lot of kids in university meet people, but there are lots of other ways (like clubs, sports teams, conference committees, etc.), none of which involve segregation

  112. "many white students simply believe that competing with Asians—both Asian Canadians and international students—requires a sacrifice of time and freedom they're not willing to make. They complain that they can't compete for spots in the best schools and can't party as much as they'd like"

    ^ More or less sums it up. I think the article should be about getting a reality check. Generally the "I want to be successful without working for it" line of thought doesn't work out in life. Think of this as an excellent lesson in what economists would call "opportunity costs" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost).

    • Of course, that caricature of "white" students is no more accurate than a caricature of an Asian student who is frustrated to discover that despite having never received a grade below 98% they can't seem to find a good paying professional job in Canada that they can get without having to have an in-person conversation with someone in English at some point.

  113. birds of a feather flock together. not necessarily a bad thing. asians don't steal anyone's university spot. if you didn't get it, you didn't work hard enough.

    • Yes birds do flock together would you be able to handle it when Euro Canadians do the same thing? Hmm.. that is the quandry of PC it only supports those conditions among the newly selected elites

  114. anyone want to give me free mandarin lessons?

  115. THIS Is STUPID. not worth reading

  116. Wow. This makes me embarrassed to be an first generation Asian-Canadian working my ass off in school and knee-deep in debt. Way to make me feel judged for the hard work I put into the investment of my future.

    There was 1/2 of a good paragraph here:

    "Toope points us in the right direction. It's unfair to change the meritocratic entry system, so all universities can do—all they should do—is encourage groups to mingle. Though it's true that universities—U of T and Waterloo included—do have diversity programs and policies for students, newer, fresher ways are needed to help pry the ethnic ghettos open so everyone hangs out together. Or at least they have the chance to. The white kids may not find it's too Asian after all. "

    But sadly, the last part of the paragraph makes us want to slap our heads.
    "Alexandra, who chose to go to Western for the party scene, found she “hated being away from home” and moved back to Toronto. In retrospect, she didn't like the vibe. “Some people just want to drink 23 hours a day.” Alexandra says she still has friends at Western who live in an “all-blond house” and are “stick thin.” Rachel, Alexandra's friend, says Western suits them—“they work hard, get good grades, then slap on their clubbing clothes.” But it didn't suit Alexandra. She now studies at U of T."

    WOW.

    If Asian-Canadians/Asians work hard, why not let them excel? As a student body worried for the student population, would it not be up to the student groups and universities to mold these bright and dedicated students into the socially adept leaders of our country/world we need them to be?

    • Yeah let's just give the whole show away! Then when they are in charge i'm sure they will pay for your retirement.

  117. it's interesting that an article can generalize about a race and say positive things and it's not considered racist ..however ..what if they wrote an article about another group and focused on the negative…you would never see that … if asians are the top students who are at the bottom don't we have the right to know; ) ?

  118. I guess I'm in the minority of the East Asians that bucked the trend to go to university for an engineer, doctor, accountant, computer sci or lawyer program and went with something more "non-traditional." Studied photography and currently doing an Outdoor Adventure program and loving it.

  119. Hello,

    As a UOFT graduate, I can completely see where this article is coming from! I grew up north of Toronto in a predominately Asian community. My high school was actually about 75% Asian. I found the Asians spent all their time with other Asians and spoke to each other only in their languages as opposed to using English.

    At UofT, I had classes where I was the only white person in the room, which was fine by me because I was used to it, but I could see where it could become intimidating. Especially when they won't talk to anyone who isn't of their race

    I agree that if they want to work work work and get all A+s then why not let them have the UofT and UBC, most employers don't even look at marks anymore. I was hired before graduating UofT (3 credits shy which I completed in night school) with no transcript. If UofT wants to be the high mark university then why not allow those who want to have high marks go there (regardless of race) and have all the "dumb" people go to York? I cannot see how limiting admissions by race will solve any problems

    • I am wondering whether you indicated that you were student of Uof T in your CV when you applied for your job?

    • Thank you Bobby, that's well said. And thank you for bringing to light that Asians don't usually socialize with other groups (ie. white people) as often. What U of T needs is more DIVERSITY.

  120. I totally agree with you. You have given a very good advice to a great number of Chinese parents and students .

    thanks Rob

  121. Please take into account how many international students attend UBC. Maybe you should look into why Asian International students choose to go to UBC?

  122. You make a good point, although I wonder if you really have a good grasp on the ground game when you mention Asian undergrads who can apparently go entire semesters without ever having to speak a word of English. The few people indolent enough to do that are usually the sons and daughters of rich business owners back home in China. Then there are the much less wealthy new immigrants who generally earned their place in a Canadian university due to impressive academic performance/potential. They might be timid and just stick to other Asians their first few months (or years) at school, but they know their professional life hinges on learning English. The key is that they are in it for the long-haul: they have ambitions to join the Canadian middle-class, but the cultural shock is just huge, and they regress for a period. And every September, a fresh batch of these students arrive. Basically, the language issue is not as big of a problem as you think it is.

    The silo-ism, on the other hand, is, and no one seems to be willing to talk about it openly. Oh well! I gave up caring (it's a "white" thing to be socially critical or civically-minded).

  123. Wow! Is this going to be another "W5" (CBC TV) incident that happened over 30 years ago? Those who worked hard to get into universities deserve to be there, Asian or White. Surely, university life used to be much easier in the old days, but I wouldn't blame the change on Asians or any particular race. It's the world around us that's getting more competitive. Remember banks used to open 10am to 3pm M-Th, and only to 6pm on Fridays? I too miss the relax old days but that's life! Please don't blame it on Asians because life is tougher than before.

  124. Dude! Right on the money!

  125. I'm an undergrad currently at Waterloo. And I'm not going to complain that they're taking up spots that other students could hold…because really, if you can't get into university in Canada…you wouldn't survive 2 weeks in one – high school is ridiculously easy.

    The issue I have with Asian students is that a lot of them don't assimilate, which in itself is not necessarily a bad thing, but they also isolate themselves. This isn't to say all of them do, because I happen to be good friends with a few Asian students, who are all extremely outgoing. However, large minority groups on campus tend to stick together, and avoid most of the large campus wide events. They don't like to mingle with people of different backgrounds and cultures. So there's a really chilled atmosphere, where half the school population isn't really attending events or anything. It sucks for school spirit.

  126. It is interesting how many people are accusing the writer of the article of being racist when some of the comments within the comments are the most racist I have ever seen.
    If you want everyone to be treated and spoken about equally, do likewise. White people are not all skinny blond drunks. Any more than Asians are all nerdy and introverted. So grow up and if you don't like the article don't read it, it is just a social commentary, and it is relevant.

  127. Non-asian minority here. All of these comments seem to oppose the article or claim that there is some racism going on here. There is no racism. What matters is CULTURE. The "asians" (used here not to refer to everyone from asia, but the obvious groups of people who have all these values etc.) are a cultural group distinct from basically everyone I know and have known my entire time in Canada (coming from the east coast). There are exceptions, and I have some "whitewashed" asian friends, but for the most part asians at U of T refuse to even interact with white people. They look at white people with disgust because they aren't hard working, and white people look at asians with disgust because they are too hard working and force us to have less fun and genuine intellectual exploration. You can tell the severity of the situation only when you are actually here, and can feel the disgust emanating on both sides. (note: I am not saying we shouldn't work hard. But something like school, where the work you do isn't an absolute accomplishment, but rather just a hoop someone is making you jump through, there's no point in collectively having everyone study 20 hours more for a test just to be able to do some questions really quickly. There's a reason at schools like MIT they actively tell their students NOT to focus too much on their marks, and think more about learning). There are basically two distinct (major) cultures at U of T. It is not racism, it is the clash of cultures. Perhaps the word to use above shouldn't have been "white people" but rather some "white culture" that we can hopefully agree exists. For example, the "asian" people legitimately refuse to talk to my whitewashed asian friend, on grounds he feels are along the lines of "you're too white [cultured]". The reason this is an issue is not because we hate asians inherently, but because they are removing the fun and genuine learning by focusing too much on the arbitrary measures of success (i.e. grades), and because in this pursuit, they create a culture which alienates the remaining people.

  128. Who said they don't have other skills? Why are you showing off your accomplishments that no one cares about for no reason?

  129. IM SOOOOOOO OFFENDED !
    I FEEEL INSULTED !

    Im an asian born Canada.
    so what ?!

    LEAVE ASIANS ALONE.
    garbageee article.
    keeep your opinions to YOURSELF !

    • if you're not willing to explore relevant issues that may pertain to YOUR career and life, then perhaps the joke is on you. Also last time I checked nobody is holding a gun to your head forcing you to read these comments.
      Regardless of the poorly written article, this is not a racist discussion, someone above put it well, when we say "asian" we don't mean ethnic asian people (I myself am from indian descent so am technically asian), we mean people who value nothing other than studying all day, doing extracurriculars solely for the resume, and generally hanging out in segregated groups.

  130. My friend and I made a tumblr in response to this article – asiansnotstudying.tumblr.com

    Check it out! It was beautifully inspired by the lovely blog Pictures of Muslims Wearing Things.

  131. Yesterday, I read this article and quickly heard both criticism and agreement from various people within the University of Waterloo engineering community. On Facebook today, many of my asian friends are calling this article "racist", but I think that it brings up some very important points regarding language and culture, that is pinpointed not only at Asians.

    In UW engineering, you go to class with the same people for the first three years (fourth year you get electives). If I look around at the people who's names I don't know and who I have never talked to, its almost always the people who are in "cultural cliques" and who speak different languages. Really, how am I supposed to contribute or integrate myself into a conversation like that? Walking around campus yesterday after reading this article, I realized more than ever that I heard more foreign languages than english. In fact, two years ago, I attended a birthday party for an asian girl, where I was the only Caucasian and there was one other non-asian person there. At the party, everyone was speaking chinese. Even after asking people to speak English (it is the common language), people reverted back to Chinese. These types of environments do make extremely uncomfortable for English-only speakers. In fact, non-chinese speaking asians have expressed this concern to me as well.

    I feel that Maclean's missed out a bit when talking about the social aspects of going to "too asian" school. The issue is not that other cultures don't have fun, the issue is that some cultures have very exclusive parties. Go to the Davis Center at the University of Waterloo right now and you will see posters for the Persion parties, Asian dances, and meetings for every sort of cultural club you could think of. Their posters are often written in different languages. Yes, these types of cultural get togethers make many of us feel excluded. How can people not exist "racist" articles like this, when certain cultures are blatantly excluded from their parties? And just to note, there was once an attempt to create a Caucasian club at UW. It was not allowed.

    I don't think people should be taking this article as offensive. It is based on fact, and it is an issue that is definitely affecting UW. Canada is about diversity, but if are there exclusions by language and culture, our diversity ideal will fail.

    • I agree with some of your comments.

      There are definitely many groups in universities, which is why Asians are upset about this article. Why are they exclusively singled out and not others? The title isn't about whites being a minority. It's about universities being "too Asian."

      There is a growing anger from the Asian community for always being vilified. Asians are trying to integrate… get an education, get in the workforce, contribute to Canada, yet they are always portrayed negatively like in this article. Let's put ourselves in their shoes. They're pursing education to make themselves more employable and white Canadians are saying they don't want to be around them because they work too hard. Academia is supposed to be a good thing. I think it's pretty clear why Asians are angry and have trust issues with Canadians.

      If people are interested in Asians are any other cultural group different from their own, make an attempt to get to know them. Otherwise, live your life, don't go to different cultural events. There's no reason to be resentful or feel excluded.

      A lot of things issues are all about perspective. Persian parties, Asian events, salsa night these are events not "ethnic only" parties. It's only that way if you see it that way. I can understand a problem with Caucasian night. Canadian night I think would pass, but isn't that most clubbing or pub nights?

      Anyway these are just some thoughts. Nothing personal towards you.

      • But don't you see that effort has to be a two-way street? You are upset that Asians are misunderstood, vilified and characterized as cliches, and say that non-Asians should make an effort to get to know and understand them. But what alice987 is saying is that a student of some other ethnic/cultural group who does go out of their way to make an effort to join clubs or attend social events geared towards Asians/Persians/whatever is made to feel unwelcome and excluded. If an ethnic or cultural group isn't willing to make an effort to welcome outsiders who are genuinely interested in fostering a better understanding, then it doesn't matter how hard the outsider is willing to try – nothing's going to be accomplished. And stereotypes and misunderstandings will be perpetuated.

        I'm not sure how I feel about the original article. I do think it's a little racist, though i don't think it's as provocative as some people are making it out to be. I also think it is somewhat poorly written. But i think one of the good points it does raise is that true multiculturalism is much more complicated than simply having a lot of people from a lot of cultures all in one place. If they're all simply separating themselves into exclusive cultural or racial cliques, then the multiculturalism is a worthless illusion.

  132. This is my theory: In the case of U of T being "too Asian" it's because the school is a commuter school. For many Asian families, taking out student loans and/or having to work (unless it is a co-op program) to pay for school makes them look bad, that they weren't able to properly provide for their kids. Therefore, U of T will have more Asian students, percentage-wise than, say, Queen's or Western, since out-of-town schools will require housing costs in addition to tuition. The Waterloo situation can be explained by their co-op program. This is, of course, just my opinion.

  133. This is discrimnation by University Policy. U of T is well known for this for past decade. If u pay CASH you're in, and the two well known communities to pay CASH Asians and Indians.

    Eduaction is for Everybody; regardless of you'r Status

    WORLD is changing not in a good way, WORSTWAY

    • lol

    • wtf r u saying, noob?

    • u are so clueless, i pity you

  134. there are so many levels of oppression displayed in this article it's just staggering to read. "asian are the new jews"? white pitted against asian for a university spot? east vs west?
    this article is written with the ideology of a natural order, that of, being white, means higher education to maintain the status quo of society. But now that the face of higher education is changing, it's depicted in this negative light despite the influx of hard working excellent students. the conflict now is based on how fun a university is, going out and being a "ski bum". "watch out, these new brilliant asian kids only want to work and not go out to party. oh no, what could this mean for the future of the university?" also the fact that they featured 2 girls who attend a private school where the majority have a very high SES decreases the generalizability of the article's sentiment.

    • I have similar thoughts. Why do we constantly need an opposition?

      In the 90's it was all about blacks vs whites. Now it seems to be about Canadians or Americans vs Asians (especially China). Why do we fall for this stuff?

  135. It's interesting. Being Havergal Old Girls, it's not like the girls in the article have NO exposure to Asians. There would have been a good number at their school. However, if Havergal of today is anything like BSS back in the 90s when I was there, then there's A LOT of segregation – many of the Asian (overwhelmingly Chinese and from Hong Kong, by the way) were either foreign boarders on student visas or arrived in Canada after, say, the age of 10. It was clearly seen in the extra curricular activities the students participated in, particularly sports. The badminton teams, at almost every age level except for the middle school grades (where there were fewer boarders), was 95% East Asian. On the other hand, the hockey team was all white. Music was similar – lots of Asian kids in band, since many had taken some sort of instrument as young kids, rather than picking something up in Grade 7.

  136. Although probably written with good intentions, the authors are taking that something that was a real problem in the US and are trying desperately to find the same problem in Canada – despite the fact that the Canadian universities' administration deny the utility of this “too many asian” concept. Don't get me wrong, segregation in Canada – in terms of residential patterns and occupations niches – do exist. However, the fact that Chinese students are attaining high levels of education is NOT the problem. If anything, education is a important means by which greater integration is achieved.

    The authors also have a very poorly constructed argument, which consists of series of observations which they try to help u interpret as indicating something that is a real problem. In order to illustrate the problem, they reinforce the Asian stereotype – one who works hard and doesn't like “social interaction” – and apply it to the university context. Of course by social interaction, they have something very specific and limited in mind. They try to make their case in a number of ways. They suggest it has something to do with Chinese culture – namely Confucius – but they also say it has to do with their highly educated parents. Of course they don't bother seeing if either of these generalizations stand by interviewing Chinese with low-educated parents or Chinese who identify in different degrees with Chinese culture. In general, what their EXACT question is remains unclear. Are they asking why Chinese students do so well? Or are they asking why social interaction might occur differently in Chinese culture? Or are they asking why different ethnic exist in general and why they tend to hang with those they are most familiar and comfortable with?

    I think that, even though the article is probably written with good intentions, the authors just don't know what they are asking and what they are talking about. Pointing out that Chinese student are segregated, yet successful, and then suggesting that more needs to be done to get them to intermingle and have “more fun” like the white kids is not the right response to this phenomenon.

    • This article is written with good intentions? What kind of good intentions? The intention of creating the public opinion of restricting the admission of ethnic Asians to Canadian universities so that more places can be freed for the whites?

  137. Sorry for the digression, but i need to make that comment for the rest of my points. I was faced with the same choice after high school. The reason I didn't pick waterloo was not because I hate asian people or thought I would be discriminated against, but rather because I did not want to be in an anti-social school where people do not realize that the 19 hours you spent learning some arcane detail of abstract complex mathematics (as much as i love math!) is utterly and completely useless in terms of your career.

    So if all the "asian" people want to congregate in one school and discriminate against other people, that's fine by me because one day theyre going to realize that they need to grow the f*** up and interact with everyone well.
    Conversely, if all the "white" people want to go another school and party 24/7 and take meandering 6-year trips through university studying nothing of use to anybody, that's fine too, because in the real world that absolutely does not cut it, and the less competition there is for me, the happier I am.

    The whole issue is irrelevant. For those who want a third alternative, places like Queen's that value both aspects of life do exist.

  138. What a loser's whining! It's a fair game, and it's a competitive world. Go get what you can win. If you can't, it only shows your incompetence, nothing more or less. From the stats, it only shows the family value, please don't stir up such a racial issue here. It is way over the line.

  139. Sorry, I did not mean to imply that you need to drink to have a good social life, its just an easy (and fun!) way for university students to get togetherr. There are lots of alternatives, like confernce committees, sports teams, clubs, etc. that are very fun and useful as well, as long as theyre not segregated, which is apparently the case at places like waterloo according to people here, although I wouldn't know about that

    • What about if I do not like my colleagues at university? And what if I need to work to support myself?

  140. Very well said, I was making a similar point in my previous post. The only thing is, socializing is great and neessary and fun, but when it comes down to it, students do have to work hard to achieve what they want (whether it be academic, career-wise, sports-wise) and be smart about time-management and prioritization (really some ofthe most important skills one can learn). Otherwise they'll probably get nowhere quickly. Life is all about balance

    • Of course this is true- you don't get anywhere in life without putting in the effort and learning key skills. But most people would prefer to have a more balanced set of priorities and goals, making them more interesting, well-rounded and better liked individuals. Many of these people, no matter if they do or to not put in the effort academically, would prefer to be at a school where they are not compared with, or assessed and graded on the same scale as, those who only have getting the best grade in the course on their mind, because unless they sacrifice their other important priorities they will not measure up to the impossible, artificial standard. Yes, they could just suck it up and focus all their energy on being competitive, but they shouldn't be judged as being unmotivated or lazy just because they would prefer to have a more well-rounded college experience and not finish at the middle of the class just because they chose to go to a school where a large proportion of the student body do not share their priorities. The Havergal girls are being criticized merely because they happened to connect not wanting to go to an overachieving, purely academic, competitive, antisocial and nerdy school, with not wanting to go to an asian school, which is a connection that is blatantly obvious seeing as a huge proportion of asians have these particular priorities. It is just sooo unpolitically correct to single out a group because of their race, and despite the fact that probably half the girls at Havergal are asian and many of them would probably have been their friends, these girls are attacked as racist just because they didn't tiptoe around the feelings of a group that itself takes pride in the obsessively competitive asian culture.

  141. Is this article somehow implying that Asian Canadians are not equal to White Canadians? If the issue was White Canadians dominating enrollment in universities, no one would bat an eyelid.

  142. The idea of a multicultural university should not involve admitting students on basis of the colour of their skin because THAT'S RACIST…Canadian students are given equal opportunity to prove their worth in school and their grades and extracurricular activities should be the only consideration in post-secondary admission.

  143. Why I am I not surprised that "Alexandra" goes to Western? Western may be a fantastic school, academically, but thanks to drunken sluts like our buddy Alex here, Western has a terrible reputation as a party school. I'm a white university student, and no I don't go to Western, but when I was choosing schools three years ago, I found myself in a similar situation as Alex. I found a program that catered perfectly to my needs at Western, and I got into said program. But there was no way I would choose Western, thanks to its horrible rap as nothing but a giant group of Aritzia/LuluLemon/ "omg whatever is so IN right now!" girls and jock/douchebag/frat boys. Western, in my eyes, is the joke of Ontario universities.

    • that may be the case about western, but somebody who has no interest in buying nice clothes and following trends is just making excuses for being a loser and predicting they won't fit in. you dont have to party if you dont want to, even if you do go to western. clearly you'd rather hang out with nerds. which is totally cool, it's a free country so do whatever makes you happy.

    • Aritzia is actually quite popular with Asians because they have very tiny sizes. A lot of Asian girls I know are like 5'3" and under 100 pounds.

  144. Shame on you, Macleans.
    Next time you write an article like "Too Asian" don't choose 2 WASP-y white girls from Havergal to interview.

  145. OUTRAGE! LOUD NOISES! HARUMPH!

    Excuse me, I dropped my monacle into my drink.

  146. This is article is akin to complaining there are too many blacks in the NBA…If this is not racism, then what is?? Shame on you!!! Those who claimed they are racist, but when they agree and endorse this type of BS, then they are no better than those who implemented the Apartheid in South Africa and the Germans during WWII…

    • no its not, because people aren't complaining about the asians being asians, but their antisocial behavior. complaining about too many blacks in the NBA is not the same because there is no problem with them behaving in a "black" way, merely the fact that they are black. nobody said the issue was that there are too many asians at UofT. the issue is that there is too much hyper-competitiveness that happens to be typical of many asians. stop trying to make this about race, its clear you just want to 'pull the race card' so that you can claim the moral high ground.

      • If that`s the case, then the article should be about 'hyper competition' and not about the Asians…When you focus on a race, that`s racism…Pure and simple…Stop hiding racism under whatever terms you call it…The faster you recognize that, the better..

        • unfortunately because the two groups have a huge overlap it is much more interesting to write an article about asians, much more controversial and will sell more magazines. nobody was focusing on the entire race- just the ones with sucky personalities and only care about homework. the only racism here comes from ignorance in not discussing the difference between hyper competitive asians and the ones who are not. if i am asian, is it racist for me to say i dont like stupid white americans? what if what i really mean is stupid rednecks from the southern states of the USA who happen to be mostly white? obviously not all americans are rednecks, just as not all asians are competitive geeks. the article isnt about the asians who arent competitive- it just doesn't spell it out for you.

          • Do not generalize or stereotype; they are the essence of racism. If I dislike someone, I`ll just say I dislike that specific someone for their attitude or behavior and not hate the entire race ! See the difference??

          • but if you are talking about a group of people that you don't like (crazy academic overachieving, unfriendly and exclusive nerds out to prove they are smarter than you and prevent you from interacting with them by speaking another language), and they all just so happen to be asian, is it so incorrect to refer to this group as asians? obviously not all asians are like this, and anyone who would claim otherwise IS racist. so yes, calling them something other than 'asians' would be more correct, but this is how the article was written and that is a legitimate criticism of the article. but connecting the competitive behavior with the large proportion of asians behaving like that is not racist- it is just articulating the reality of the situation. trying to make somebody who recognizes this link into a racist by accusing them of generalising an entire race is putting words in their mouth, creating incorrect assumptions, drawing false implications, and represents an insult to the person's intelligence. yes competitive behavior that happens to be held by many asians should be distinguished from asians on the whole. but recognizing that that many asians do behave competitively is just being objective, even if the politically-correct-police tries to shut anyone down who dares to mention it.

          • Jeez…The more you explain, the more racist it sounds..

  147. Your ancestors (assuming you're white) also forced the Chinese immigrants in Canada to build the railroad and killed 6 million Jews in WW2. So by your logic, you should be punished for their crimes. Right?

    • nice

  148. You are just a dumb racist, who still think the world owes you a living… Dream on and let the world bypass you ….

  149. This is the response I got from Stephanie after I complained about being taken out of context… Do you think it reads as if I am referring to students living in a residence environment or does it read that I am talking about Asians? I'm so disappointed they think this is journalism.

    "Hi Nikki, Thank you for sending me an email. I have to disagree about your quote,
    I think it's clear that you were talking about the environment at the
    residence — not specifically about Asian students.
    …
    Thank you again for sending me an email,
    You can also always call at 416 764 3910.
    Best regards, Stephanie"
    [ stephanie.findlay@macleans.rogers.com]

    • Doesn't even sound a like a coherent response.

  150. Anyway, being squinty is better than being brainless or washed out in alcohol or drugs…Loser!

  151. They talk about this as if only White and Asians exist

  152. people aren't complaining about the asians being asians, but their antisocial behavior. complaining about too many blacks in the NBA is not the same because there is no problem with them behaving in a "black" way, merely the fact that they are black. nobody said the issue was that there are too many asians at UofT. the issue is that there is too much hyper-competitiveness that happens to be typical of many asians. stop trying to make this about race, its clear you just want to 'pull the race card' so that you can claim the moral high ground.

    • this is interesting….but not logical….where is the moral high ground …the author??/ who tries to sub group Canadian into Asian and Non-Asian????

  153. Dear Mr. Editor, I've got a few more interesting topics for you to make it a serie: "Too Black (in prisons)", "Too White (in board of directors)", any more?

    • Boycott Macleans!!

  154. i am asian and i was in a university program where students are predominantly white in quite 'an asian' university known for its math and engineering programs, yet I couldn't stand any of my classmates, I couldn't make friends with them. I wish they could smoke up and chill out once a while.

    so for me, this is a reverse case, and somebody tells me this phenomenon is defined by racial lines? bull f***ing sh*t, it's the system that makes you work like dogs. i call the libraries and the 60s brutalist/modernist buildings that define many of our university campuses giant factories manufacturing human minds.

  155. Then stop using the term Asian or *Asian*..It should be the hyper-competitive and anti social behavior that you are talking about..Such behavior exist in many other races too! In addition, what has learning to hold liquor go to do with socialization?? I once met a guy at a formal networking event who drank liquor like a fish and only spoke about how much he partied and how much booze he ad in school …Does that reflect 'good' or professional social behavior?? Go figure..

  156. This article deals with racism so poorly. First it was Asians being mocked, harassed, excluded and bullied. Then, after a long time, people wanted to look "multicultural" so they started admitting and hiring more immigrants, and white peo…ple complained about reverse racism. Now we're going back the other way because a bunch of white kids want to drink and party and be much less responsible about academics.

    Maybe the reason that the Asian kids who got into university aren't partying all the time is that it's not actually the only and most fulfilling way to have fun. Maybe the Asian kids should be trying to convince the white kids to come to their events rather than trying to re-whitewash university communities. Or we could all just live our lives and not worry about getting other races to join our activities because we and the ways we like to have fun are the most awesome.

    P.S. Congrats on putting a white girl on the cover of the magazine. That'll show 'em.

  157. Who cares? So many Caucasian students slack off all of the time and are happy if they get by with 60's; maybe they can actually learn something from the examples set by these Asian students.

  158. What I am seeing is that the whites are afraid that their offspring's will not be successful in getting into good universities because the Asian students are better than their children. I do not understand what the problem is, any one of us who sees that they loosing out on realizing the dream of having a good paying job, white picket fence and the 2 kids would do what ever it takes to prevent that from happening. And in this instance it's in the form of writing a racist article to wake up and encourage the quite haters into taking action.

    I view this simply as whites using one of the tools of power and influence they have at their disposal in this country. After all we know what they did to the natives when they decided that they are getting in the way of the whites steeling the land. We all or should know about the genocides, residential schools and reserves. I view all of those as tools of power. I guess the only surprising thing for me is that the whites this time are using a none-violent tool of power AKA media.

  159. Isn't the purpose of going to University for education and getting a degree? Most employers aren't going to care if you went to an "asian" school as long as you have the credentials. In the end, this "too asian" thing is the result of immature students with messed up priorities. I go to U of T, and yes I have noticed that there are many asian students. So what? They're doing their thing and i'm doing mine. It's not like I have to hold hands with them and join an asian cultural club. We have different ideas of fun, that's for sure, but I'm here to get my degree and start my career. It's not like I don't party either, but that's what winter and summer breaks are for. I know how to balance my social life and my education. Prior to reading this article, I had no idea of the that Uof T was perceived as an "asian" school. How about worrying about grades instead of image?
    Seriously. Grow up and move on from the high school phase. If you can't, or you don't want to compete with the "asian" kids, then you don't belong at University in the first place.

  160. I'm an Asian student at U of T and it's easy to see the racial separation here. For some people, making colleagues of the same race just /happens/, for others, they just can't find common ground or a way to connect with people outside of their race. In a way it changes opportunities here for extra-curricular activities, but there are just so many other things to do here that it's easy to find an open door beside a closed one.
    But besides that, this is just incredibly racist. People work hard to get into university, and it just so happens that there are a large number of Asian people that get into university.

  161. Canadian universities that accept students solely on the basis of merit are doing the right thing. If universities believe that social skills are important they should include social skills as a criteria for admission. Asian students who are among the latest group of immigrants and as I have observed often find it difficult to speak English. Speaking English well is an essentially social skill. Lacking that ability is a major factor in preventing newly arrived Asian students from integrating into university life.

    • thats all well and good in university, however in the real world unless you want to do your phD and do research it does not work that way. Of course if you dont have high marks in university youre not going to get the opportunity to have a good career, though. Balance is key

  162. Isn't there a bigger story here? Why is there an attitude among students that seeking academic excellence isn't as important as playing the social game? If the generation entering colleges today are going to become tomorrow's leaders in their respective fields, do we really want to say that mediocre performance is fine as long as you throw a good party?

    Do you want the best engineer to design the bridge your family crosses every day? Do you want the top doctors to look after you when you're sick? Why didn't the writers explore the angle that a certain segment of students don't care about excellence?

    • They don't care about knowledge. They only care about skin colour. That is how the job market works in Canada anyway.

  163. If there's any validity whatsoever to this notion of "Too Asian", then how about "Not Black Enough"? If the point is to keep a balanced post-secondary community in terms of race, than both these two statements go hand in hand. For those reading this article that are nodding in agreement with the notion of reducing the Asian student population to combat the imbalance, think twice about how fair/realistic this point of view is!

  164. We are fortunate that the Chinese and others show us what real work can achieve. I have spent seven years in University and observed many so called white Canadians working the least possible and sliding by. Many I observed should not even be in University, thereby taking the positions of students with proper aptitudes and proper work ethic. Our system is flawed i.e Bush made it to Harvard and Yale and very probably took the positions of much more deserving students. He slid by with minimal work as a C student. Instead of complaining about the Chinese we should praise and emulate them. We have hard working so called white Canadians but they are usually osterized for not drinking and partying enough.

  165. Being from a family of Chinese origin, growing up, I often felt like I was living in a Jane Austen novel, with crazy relatives all taking turns at being Lady Catherine from Pride and Prejudice. These are people who look down on you if you aren't "like them" – and in this situation, it has to do with school (both in majors and the "brand" (i.e. U of T, Queen's, Waterloo, Western and McGill if you're in this part of the country). Growing up, you were required to have "accomplishments" which in my case meant playing a bit of tennis and piano as well as maintaining a decent average. Your brand name school and "useful" degree also add to these accomplishments for your relatives to "show off." And unlike Regency England, this isn't only about marriage, but bragging rights as well.

    • you post a lot.

      • Yes, I do. I do that because I actually UNDERSTAND the issue from a more intelligent perspective.

    • have you tried flipping burger or loading trucks for 10 hours a day? or have you every worried about your next meal? Try live that live for a week before you complain about the live your parents make you live through. Please don't everything as granted. I you prefer to live that kind of live, be my gust.

    • Yes, but why did you, or anyone else, so readily conform to that which your parents wanted?

      I always thought it can be summarized into one word: Guilt. The common theme that intertwines the experience of second generation Canadians together. It makes the children of immigrants excel in areas that their parents would consider important (math, science, etc). It's amazingly powerful.

      I came to this country with blah blah blah, and had to sacrifice blah blah blah, all so you could have a better blah blah blah.

      • I didn't exactly conform. I may have gone to a brand name school, but my degree is in history and drama. If I conformed, I would have a B.Comm or some science-y degree (I would have probably chosen engineering of some sort, since engineers usually know how to have fun (and do well in their classes)).

  166. I really think the idea that "Asians" are smarter is so wrong and misguided. What many don't realise is that behind this "smart kid" is a pushy parent who thinks that learning mimetically and regurgitating book chapters benefits their children. They put in 10 hours for every 1 that we put in so kudos to them. I also come from the Caribbean where the spots at Oxford/Cambridge were limited and the idea of weekend school gave students the edge – and yes before writing my A-levels many of us did have to take weekend cramming sessions. As a West Indian I fully identify with the Asian zeal for learning. But having said that there is something to be said for university life. Something must be done to rebalance the educational system. We need to place more emphasis on analytical thought vs. mimetics which to me is how many Asian's I have met think of learning. Because you practice something doesn't mean you can apply elsewhere. Critical analytical learning and 'some fun' should be what university is all about. Go U of Ottawa 1998! Good Old Days at the Solstice reading 17th century literature.

    • The idea that "Asians" are smarter is wrong and misguided. You know what is just as wrong and misguided? Your idea that there is a pushy parent behind these "smart kids". Please stop with the generalizations.

  167. For Maclean's to pose the question if universities are too Asian is offensive and irresponsible journalism. What if a similar question was asked regarding another group in another sector? The lack of journalistic standards — the use anonymous sources of people who discriminate against Asians; selective anecdotes, a lack of objectivity — is alarming. For example, where's the attribution in "Still, an 'Asian' school has come to mean one that is so academically focused that some students feel they can no longer compete or have fun." Or here: "Although university administrators here are loath to discuss the issue, students talk about it all the time"? Really, do they?" Is the reporter so plugged into campus discussions that she knows people talk about univerisities being too Asian "all the time"? This goes beyond a slow news week. I wholeheartedly support the survival of print jounalism and higher circulation numbers, but I will never again buy another issue of Maclean's.

    • Yes, to be frank, I have never bought any Maclean's, and you bet, I'll never going to. What a piece of crap, full of junk.

  168. This article is hilarious. I don't want to go to a university because it is too Asian? Or should we say the grape is too sour? Stop lying and tell your mommy what the truth is.

  169. Is Maclean's too white?

    • No it was created by Whites, so was U of T for that matter it will always belong to us!

      • Oh, you must be dreaming, so if U of T always belong to you Whites, then why are you whining?

        I guess you are true, Macleans IS created by you whites, since it really reflects your white's mentality, that's, if you dumb lazy whites can't compete with smart and hard-working Asians, then what you can do is just, well, whining. So pathetic and dumb.

        • my you are a fine writer! You must have majored in English Lit to be able to make such intelligent, well-stated observations.

  170. I am really sorry … really! It was my fault of studying too hard while having 2 part time jobs to support my life! :(

    It was my fault of hard working and hard studying that partying-guys, and chill-out drinker couldn't get a spot in Medicine :(

    sorry~

    jk!

    I will still work as hard, study hard, and stay away from alcohol :)

  171. This is incorrect. You are right in saying that the ability to hold one's liquor is not an absolute indicator of socially acceptable behavior, however it is a contributing factor of the ability to behave in an acceptable manner. Drinking responsibility is an ability aquired through proper socialisation, but it is not determinative. Someone drinking responsibly MAY still behave badly, but someone drinking who can't hold their liquor WILL behave badly. Being able to hold one's liquor is merely one of the skills that assist in being a positive, functioning and acceptable member of society, but lacking that skill in the necessary circumstance has a much more direct connection to bad behaviour, thus making it one of the key social skills. On its own it means nothing and therefore your example has no relevance. The intial point was just that it means you are better equipped to behave well than without it. You took a relatively minor point and turned it into a major point of contention by incorrectly interpreting the meaning, illustrating your utter incompetence through both your terrible reading and writing skills.

    • Lose an argument and lose your temper and class…

  172. "The upshot is that race is defining Canadian university campuses in a way it did not 25 years ago"

    Ummmm yes it did,it's just that 25 years ago Canadian campuses were defined by Caucasian culture. Now its becoming defined by Asian culture. Not wrong, just different.

  173. Why is it socially acceptable to pick on Asian people, when an article along the same line of argument towards another group would be extremely offensive? Is it okay for us to say that too many girls are going to school, we need more guys? It's pointless for them to go because most eventually have babies and they usually end up getting lower salaries anyway. Imagine the outrage if there was an article on too many Jews going to school. Tons of Asian youth are poor academic workers anyway, this article is silly and racist.
    Maclean's has become a hate mongering magazine.

  174. what a stupid comment, go take a refresher in ebonics

  175. Why is it socially acceptable to pick on Asian people, when an article along the same line of argument towards another group would be extremely offensive? Is it okay for us to say that too many girls are going to school, we need more guys? It's pointless for them to go because most eventually have babies and they usually end up getting lower salaries anyway. Imagine the outrage if there was an article on too many Jews going to school. Tons of Asian youth are poor academic workers anyway, this article is silly and racist. If Maclean's has a sense of decency they should quickly apologize and retract, or gain the reputation of a hate mongering magazine.

  176. I was going to call you out on the "light workload" of McGill students, but a few posters above me beat me to it.

    It's also certainly not true that there was no diversity at McGill, nor is it a school comprised mainly of 'white' people. There are lots of different nationalities and ethnicities represented at the university. Thinking back to the people on my floor in residence alone, we had individuals from New Jersey, Boston, Florida; we had kids from Ottawa, Vancouver, and Toronto; and then we had a good number of international students – people from Saudi, Jordan, and Turkey, just to name a few.

    Yes, McGill is more expensive than most (all?) other universities in Canada. But to presume that all of these "rich kids" were just lazy and coasting their way through school is COMPLETELY and utterly inaccurate. I agree the original article is complete crap, but your assessment of 'upper middle class' and 'rich kids' is pretty unfair. I'd probably be classified as one of those rich kids, and let me tell you, I worked my butt off for the things I've achieved. I know I wasn't alone in doing that either.

  178. As a Chinese Canadian born in Canada, I'm glad Maclean's pushed this article out. It's pretty obvious this is the giant elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about (and we can't seem to talk a damn about anything these days without offending someone or being politically correct.). Sure, this article stereotypes both asians, but behind every stereotype is some element of truth. I speak fluent English and Chinese, and am immersed in both cultures and I can't help but feel embarrassed seeing all Asian/Chinese specific groups at my own University.

    • I wonder what the debt ratio of student loans is for the races?

      • I think, percentage-wise, many more students of Chinese/other east Asian descent are getting a full ride through school, courtesy of their parents. This is probably why there are more at U of T – they're all living at home, meaning that their parents won't have to put a second mortgage on the house.

    • You know what, I feel so embarrassed when you are saying you are of Chinese ancestry. And no matter how sweet your dream might be, you are among the 'Asian students' that Maclean's is bashing about. No matter how fluent your English might be, you still can't change your physical build and your skin color.

      Wake up, kid, THIS IS RACISM, you hear me? Repeat, THIS IS RACISM!

    • I'm embarrassed to say that I'm of the same ancestry as you.

      I'm also a Canadian born Chinese. I speak fluent English/French and not a word of Chinese (just thought I'd throw that in there because it seems important to you). Most of my friends are white – it just happened that way. Yeah, I notice that Asians tend to stick together. Does it bother me? No. Why the hell would I care? It's not doing me any harm and doesn't have any effect on my life whatsoever. If they are more comfortable with each other or just enjoy each others company more then let them be.

      Grow up and be proud of your heritage.

    • wow… how can you be embarassed seeing all Asian/Chinese at your University, yet your whole family is Asian/Chinese and you face them much more longer?
      So speaking from your point of view, is it shameful to be Asian? Try looking at the mirror then…

    • I can't believe you are embarassed by your own people when all they did was just studying hard and work hard. It's this article that's a piece of garbage that stereotypes a group of people just because they chose to apply themselves more instead of getting wasted and getting laid all the time. Even non-Asians here can recognize it and you can't? And you call yoursef "immersed" in your Chinese culture? You are a shame of our Chinese culture and really don't deserve to speak Chinese which you probably don't even speak well. Sellout!!

    • Hi Anthony? I'm embarrassed to be the same race as YOU. Since you're not even proud of your own culture, I don't think you should even be talking about fairness or race. You're absolutely disgusting. Since you're so glad Maclean's published this article, why don't you tell your parents about this? "Hey mom, I wish you were never Asian… I'm embarrassed of seeing asians in my school… my grandmother is so gross, she's asian!, why did i have to be asian?," Yeah, go ahead and tell her that. Let's see if she replies with, "SAI POOK GAI, HUI LEI LO SEE…"

  179. I'm an Asian student at UBC.

    First off, for everyone calling the article / author racist, here's a quick lesson on racist and non-racist speech. Opinions can be racist. Facts can NEVER be racist. "Blacks are thugs" = racist. "Larger percentages of black people are in prison" = not racist.

    "There are too many Asians at university, we need to do something because whites cannot compete" = racist.

    "Many students avoid certain schools because they have a reputation of being too competitive and 'Asian'" = not racist if you can prove that these students exist, which the article did.

    Further, the article highlighted serious problems like how some U.S. schools actively discriminate against Asians, which I obviously condemn being an Asian myself.

    The talk about integration at universities is quite true—everyone at UBC knows that the majority of people only hang out with their own race. All you have to do is look at the pairs / groups of people together in the student union building, 90% of them are the same race. That's a fact.

    Is that a bad thing? If you think it is or is not, that's your opinion and not a fact.

    Lastly, the fact that things like a TA speaking in Mandarin because he can't communicate in English is ridiculous, in my opinion. If that happened to me I'd be furious and attempt to get the TA fired. I'd feel the same way if he was speaking in French, Tagalog, or German.

    Edit: For everyone condemning Maclean's for suggesting that universities are too Asian, that is false. Maclean's did not suggest that, that is not what the article is saying. The article is saying that some people (not Maclean's, not the authors) feel that way. That is a big difference which apparently many people are unable to understand.

  180. Maclean to you and the rest of Canada. Canada was founded by immigrants. When will some of you people wake up!! we all are immigrants whether 100 or 1 year ago you came to canada. This is a clear case that this is all about white even if they are from Europe "white must dominate" well wake up it !! change has come

  181. replace the word "asian" with "black" in this article and you'd have a KKK worthy article.

  182. This kind of thinking or statements come out from politicians, media, and individuals from time to time, all the time in Canada and in any White-dominant countries. Let's just focus on our very own country – Canada. What is Canada? A White only country? What is Canadian culture? A European only culture? Who owns Canada? White only? How about the Natives? White people came to this land only about a lttle bit more than 100 years ago. What make them think that this country should be "White as a norm"? Asian Canadians are not Canadians? Need not to say more here. One word can say everything: Racism. It is ugly, it is everywhere, and, will not go away!

  183. Didn't you read the article? Queen's only has snotty white kids who don't try hard at anything.
    Kidding of course!
    But if you're not white, you're at least snotty or pretentious by the sounds of that comment.

    • haha I agree, the article is ridiculous, Im trying to address the issue that the article SHOULD be talking about. read the rest of my comment below (i had to break it up because it was too long)

      • and if you're calling me snotty or pretentious because of what i said there, then you should probably go back to grade 3 where name calling was cool

  184. Let's also set a limit on black players in the NBA so that white people have a fair chance.

    • hey, Asian's want a fair share too, also in hockey :)

  185. cool story bro

  186. they did clarify asian as east-asian in the article..

    • Yes but only on the last page. Most of the article they seem to assume that we know they're talking about eastern Asia (which for some reason UBC thinks only consists of Japan, Korea and China). Overall, I think it's apparent that the media couldn't care less about geographical accuracy and would rather pander to the general public's skewed global views. Asia has BILLIONS of people from myriad ethnic backgrounds, and along with the term "African", "Asian" pisses me off to no end.

      As an aside, I found this article horribly written and lacking any tangible focus of direction. McLean's has gone pretty downhill in recent years.

      • Who are you to judge on the writing of this article? Some credentials maybe would have made your point just a little more valid.

        • Credentials? LMAO! Excuse me, can I see your credentials that entitle you to breathe?

    • But once again, east asian is a huge generalization… that could mean anything from being hmong to hokkien to mongolian

  187. The comments I have read so far really showed how the readers of this article are so much smarter and knowedgeable than the authors of this article. This reminded me of the infamous W5 show by CTV many years ago entitled: "Campus takeover", claiming that Asian students have taken up positions in top Canadian universities (e.g. U of T), squeezing out "Canadian" students in the process the opportunity to attend professional training programs. Due to the uproar and protests from the university presidents, professors, professionals and community at large, CTV fired the producers and issued an apology. The same stereo-typing and distortion of facts (how students feel about their Asian friends) in MacLeans' article are nothing but an attempt to inflame ethnic hatred and prejudice. Shame on MacLeans to puhlish this type of poorly research material..

  188. "The comments I have read so far really showed how the readers of this article are so much smarter and knowedgeable than the authors of this article."

    Actually, the opposite is true. I'm Asian myself and I've have written the same article if I was given the pitch or had the idea.

    Why? Because it's the truth, something many commenters and yourself are denying.

  189. Maclean, let me help your journalist put a spin on things:
    – you could have started by applauding Asians or any other race that
    make good use of opportunity when presented. hurry to those
    individuals.

    – encourage those lazy high school drop out to go get their credits to
    get a higher education insteading on drinking and making out all
    over the streets.

    – publish the drinking, drugs and parting stats at the university where
    the student population is like Alexandra – 90%

  190. Instead of limiting Asians, there should be investment in creating programs in high schools or even as early as elementary schools to encourage academic values to other racial groups..

  191. Nobel prize is too white, I should get at least $1000 or something like that.
    NBA is too black, I wanna be Raptors' coach
    NFL is too white… I think Toronto Maple Leafs should allow me to play in the team. I think they pick players based on how well they can play is totally unfair, what do you think?

  192. I was born to Chinese parents in Toronto near High Park, where I grew up with WASPs, Slavs, Greeks, Italians, East Indians, Portuguese, etc. My friends came from all groups.

    I did well in school and partied. Yes, I went to keggers and smoke(d) pot. I had girlfriends but still studied, went to U of T then Ryerson. While I made good friends at both places, some of which I am still friends with today, I always found the white kids from small towns would never befriend me. I think that's still true today in the working world.

    It's not that Canadian-born Asians do not integrate (heck, I know many that self-loathe to the point of not associating with others of Asian descent), it's that many white kids don't see Asians fitting into their personal movies and social networks.

    Like those that cross the street, when swarthy people are walking towards them.

    And that Asian parenting bullshot – I know lots of Asian-descent kids that weren't pushed at all by their parents, barely studied and still graduated at the top of their classes.

    There's a study that found those with the highest IQs were either South-East Asian or Ashkenazim Jews. This correlates with the University bias, no?

  193. I am concerned that Canadians are tempted to dismiss any article that approaches racial issues as "racist." We can bury our heads in the sand if we like, but the reality is that taking three maths and three sciences in the final year of high school is described as the "Asian six-pack" by white students in Toronto, and it is assumed that it is in preparation for a university degree in math, medicine or engineering. Whether resentment against Asian students if fair (it isn't) we are fools if we pretend it doesn't exist. Let's be grown-ups and talk about this, folks, and not blame MacLean's for dragging the elephant into the middle of the room.

    • "I am concerned that Canadians are tempted to dismiss any article that approaches racial issues as "racist.""

      This is one of my biggest annoyances. I absolutely hate political correctness; people deny facts or objective observations as "racist."

      • It is racist. Just replace the word "Asian" with either white, black, or Jewish and see how that sounds.

    • I don't see any reason why non-Asian students can't also take 3 maths and 3 sciences in high school. If that's what it means to compete for the top spots in university, then just do it. The academic world is competitive, surprise!

  194. Macleans – Thank you for being ignorant, racist, and stereotypical. "Asian" doesn't just mean Chinese, Japanese or Korean; just because you're "Asian" doesn't mean you adhere to the words of Confucius; and many of these "Asians" are proud Canadians first and foremost. The best thing you've done is made this article a topic of interest amongst "Asian" university students and graduates – and you've pissed them all off.

  195. Hey Macleans: Your magazine is too white.

  196. The one thing I learned from this article (if it is true) is that other nebulous criteria such as leadership qualities, community involvement etc. in the university admissions decision were simply a weapon used by the Ivy League schools to discriminate against Jews!! This is similar to the B.S requirement for new immigrants (including brain surgeons, engineers etc.) to have "Canadian Experience" before being eligible for an interview for a job.
    All the lazy, dunce WASP people of the world can continue with their entitlement mentality and will one day realise that the same victimised, vilified, hardworking Asians own them!

  197. I think Macleans should make an article on exposing which Canadian schools are making asians work harder to get equal standing with a white/black person to enter a program.

    I dont think Macleans was being racist or ignorant, but providing facts of what is actually hapenning in schools.

  199. I feel like no one read the second two pages of the article. It supports Canada's meritocratic system if you read the second two pages.

  200. Nice, Havergal, you graduate pinheads who don’t have the guts to put their names to their opinions. If I were the parents of “Alexandra” and “Rachel”, I would demand 8 years of tuition back.

    And if I were Havergal, I would change their graduation diplomas to read “Branksome Hall”.

    • These two idiots are not representative of havergal girls as a whole.

  201. What if Alexandra and Rachel were of Chinese descent and said that they didn't want to go to Waterloo or U of T because it was "too FOBBY"? Would they still be criticized?

  202. New integrating strategy for Canada.

    Remove grades 11 and 12 in all provinces and replace with colleges all over Canada. Canadian government randomly places EACH student in any of these colleges for the next two years. In these colleges students learn about the community they are in and perform group activities – group learning style teaching. Everybody who enters into a school (new immigrants as well) partakes because it's mandated, it's school. Then these students, upon successful completion get first dibs on university/college spots over international students. So meritocracy still functions and there is an already learned ethnic collaboration because, face it, we are not doing it ourselves so we need a legislative push. Being a multi-cultural nation bent on economic success in a vastly internationally interconnected world, we need something like this.

    Perry – half like 10th generation French Canadian, half West Indian.

  203. I am an Asian, immigrated to Canada in 1999, I did strive academically but I would also consider myself well rounded. If I wasn't, I wouldn't have gotten into medical school, and become the Year 1 President for the Class of 2014. Please don't over-generalize. This is suppose to be a country where we embrace diversity and reward hard work and determination. No pain no gain right?

  204. Good article. States what many are too afraid to say themselves.

    In Canada, we need to stop bending over backwards to accomodate minorities and instead keep to our own principles, and if people immigrate here, they should accept the culture here.

    • you are totally missing the point of the article and discussion. It's not that universities are accommodating Asians, but rather the fact that the focus on grades makes for more Asians to enter top universities than Whites.

  206. Nowadays when tuition keeps rising, and YOU the parents and family and student are paying, you darn right that studying should be top priority rather than emptying the keg.

  207. Dear Maclean's.

    While the topic you are trying to write about is a merit one, the writing itself is a disaster. I am officially ending our relationship. It's not you, it's your writer.

  208. I think this article generalizes the concept of 'race' too far. I am half white and half Chinese, my parents were immys from Hong Kong but all Ive ever considered myself to be is 'white' (ie. Canadian). I go to UWO and I do well in school not because Im pushed to exceed academically by my parents, I do it for myself. My parents always encouraged me to play sports (and Im not talking badminton or ping pong, I grew up playing hockey and football) and go out and socialize. At the same time, I've always wondered whether having an Asian last name would come back to bite me in the ass in my university applications. I think the issue is in seperating domestic asian from foreign asians. I know plenty of asian people who consider themselves Canadian and whom debunk alot of common stereotypes that would be associated with them. However, nowadays at university, even at UWO, i think there are WAY too many Mainland Chinese people. They do not interact well with the predominately white crowd, and rarely use their education to the benefit of us (ie. Canadians), they go back to China to make money. Also, there is an abundance of asian profs and TAs who I find to be counter-productive to my learning due to language barriers, and different teaching methods than what Im use too.

    • Even if they take the education and go back to China, what's the problem with that? International students don't get any funds from Canadian tax payers, their pay for their education, so what do you have to complain about?
      And what do you mean "WAY too many Mainland Chinese people"? Should I be complaining that Canada has WAY too many White people??

  209. Too Asian? I thought it was too white a few years ago.

    Personally I think there's too many fat people. Maybe we should start limiting their enrollment (and food portions)?

    • Good one :)

    • Hilarious! You've got to laugh at this stupid article. Who's the idiot running McClean? Total crap.

  210. What do these people want? A god damn Utopia of racial diversity NOW? Like right this second?

    Integration is going to take time and white Canadians have to wrap their minds around the fact that cultural mixing is going to occur whether you like it or not. Everyone needs to learn not to be so insular in their behaviour and extend their social boundaries. The bottom line is, however, Asians working hard and congregating along racial lines is the least of our problems. The former is good for Canada, and the latter will eventually change.

    The real problem arises when minorities actively eschew integration and disown the modern Western values that make a country like Canada so great. Things like freedom of religion, thought and conscience. Asians pose absolutely no problem in this regard. If white people are just afraid of the sheer numbers of Asians, I suggest they lobby their MPs to change the immigration policies.

  211. Perhaps the longer term problem is the domination of certain professions requiring a high degree of competency in math/science by certain ethnic groups (e.g., medicine, engineering, computer science). But who can blame them? So many of the 'white' Canadian kids prefer to study for general BA's where they can avoid these subjects and subsequently will end up in relatively menial jobs simply because they have never put the effort into the math/science subjects. Let's face it, if English is your second language studying for a BA in Political Science so that you can get into teacher's college or Law School is likely not a priority.

    To me this is more of a failure of the Canadian K-12 education system than anything. We certainly can't blame the 'Chinese' for this (whether they are new immigrants or born here). Our kids are simply not able to compete in the hard subjects and it is only getting worse.

  212. When some kids play hockey, Asia kids study.

    When some kids go to party, Asia kids study.

    When some kids watch TV, Asia kids study.

    When some kids hang out, Asia kids study.

    High school is just 4 years. Some kids relax 4 years, Asia kids study 4 years.

    Some kids have cigarette, drugs and orgy sex all the way through their high school life (BTW, these kids called it a better life). Then suddenly they found the good universities' doors are closed to them because they hardly do any study in the last few years.

    Remember, to be a racist, you first need to be better than people you are discriminating with. Otherwise, you are just loser. Blaming the winners because they have different skin color is the most easiest thing to do. And most common thing to do for the losers.

  213. The article is mistitled.

    Instead of “Too Asian”, it is more accurate to name it “White Fright, White Flight”. Because there don’t seem to be many Caribbean or Hispanic or Aboriginal or Moslem students complaining.

  214. What a ridiculous article. Clearly this person didn't even go to University since they have no critical capacity to evaluate the way the have conflated ethnicity/race/culture/country of birth and then generalized to everyone they could think of. Some silly fool of a "writer" is patting themselves on the back. Maclean you have lost my business, I will never purchase or support your magazine. REAL journalists don't write racist crap like this.

  215. you should be able to understooooood

  216. Hey "Europeans"!

    The very conception of this article is racist.
    Do I walk around in Canada and comment on all the "Europeans" I see?

    The very fact that this article just lumps together anyone with features from a particular continent, regardless of which country and when they immigrated, or whether they're adopted or not….

  217. An interesting article that has possibly one or two worthwhile points, albeit it seems that it was based on a lot of generalizations: Asians are good at math and computers & Whites are good at partying…(rhetoric)

    Nonetheless I think they have a valid argument when they say that Canadian schools are segregated and that the races stick together (for the most). I think people stick to their own not out of malice but mostly because they are lazy. Especially when there is a language and cultural barrier. People of the same ethnicity or upbringing automatically have an unspoken connection/understanding. Meeting students of other ethnicities require effort and at times possibly overcoming fears of rejection or social awkwardness.

    I think genuine engagement has to come from the heart and can't really be forced or sanctioned by University events, but I think that this takes time…most probably don't realize that until they've already graduated.

    Also, after having worked at International House at UBC for 2 semesters I found that new immigrants/international students were the MOST willing to engage and interact with other nationalities. I found that it was the Canadians who were less willing to engage. (Canadians: not just whites but all ethnicities that were born/grew up
    in Canada). Moreover I found that when Canadians do engage with the International students it was short term and surface level conversations. Deep long lasting friendships were rarer.

    I think the argument that "Asians" lack social skills is based upon a biased North American ideal of social standards that are skewed towards extroverts than introverts. This compounds language and cultural barriers further especially in a society that is heavily reliant on first impressions.

    The blatent discrimination concerning American entrance requirements is disturbing and is arguably nothing more than thinly veiled bigotry. Fortunately for us we aren't Americans.

    Ultimately students need to stop being lazy. They need to become more understanding and to have the courage to move pass their comfort zones both socially and academically.

    [youtube wktlwCPDd94&feature=player_embedded http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wktlwCPDd94&feature=player_embedded youtube]

  218. "“Asian” school has come to mean one that is so academically focused that some students feel they can no longer compete or have fun"

    I do love me some upper-middle class entitlement mixed with casual racism.

    You mean you have to work hard?!? Oh Noes!!!!

    Rachel and Alexandra, good luck in the real world, ladies.

  219. Western is Too White :)

    BTW, what kind of "acceptable social skills" do white kids develop, when Asian kids develop "acceptable academic skills"?

    • "Acceptable social skills" is a coded term. It means that they are white, and therefore enjoy an inherent advantage when applying for jobs and any subsequent promotions.

      I once worked for an employment agency, and "good interpersonal skills" is the coded term for white candidates or at least someone who do not speak accented English.

      • Come on. Most Asian kids in my neighbourhood are born in Canada. Their English are same as whites. In the meantime, their academic scores are very good. Lazy white kids are going to compete with second/third generation Asian kids whose English has no accent.

  220. Good for you, but in my time in university I knew several people of Asian descent who did exceptionally well because they spent absolutely all of their time studying. Then, when the time came for the real world they had difficulties getting jobs in their field because they had never developed the social skills needed to be successful. As stereotypical as it may sound, it definitely holds true in a lot of cases.

    • They excelled at what the university required of them to get a degree. Outside of that, it is their and their parents' responsibility to develop the necessary social skills to function in society. The lesson here is that life is full of tradeoffs.

  221. A first generation European in Canada doesn't mean much. Jews are also by and large European in mindset due to their interesting history. They have very little in common with first generation Chinese, let's say. Do you also realize why East Asians do not integrate as well as others? Fervent nationalism with a hint of resentment and racism are some reasons. They have egos as big as those of white Europeans. It's rather pathetic to experience.

  222. Who are you to say that Asians don't have social skills or leadership skills? I want to see some evidence that supports your statement. Your statement alone shows just how ignorant you are.

  223. I love Asian Kids, they are smart, intelligent and cute.

  224. Why bother with Macleans same as I will not bother with their ranking system. See how the so-called non-"Asian universities" almost always come tops on their rankings. It is a bias in them and seriously, to have a ranking based on what the university tells you mostly!! Boggles the mind. it is trash research just as this article is. I am neither White nor Asian whatever the connotation is but when does a Canadian become a Canadian or are there those more deserving based?

  225. This article just makes me think that there are only two races on campus or in the entire world: asian or non-asain.

  226. What you say is generally very true. But you need to stay current with developments in Asian communities, particularly in the States. When you have a population group with the sheer numbers like the East Asians, in addition to the large influx of international students, it's difficult to see anything but the average trends.

  227. It is a fact that asian students tend to do better academically, but is that a bad thing? Hopefully not. Just because they have a higher standard does not mean that white students have to strive to achieve that same standard, nor does it mean that the asian students should lower their standards for those who just don't want to work as hard. Competition moves us forward. There is never such a thing as doing too well.

  228. As an Asian, I find the racism of East Asians pretty disgusting. And I completely share your sentiment about the language thing. Asians need to first discard the traditional conservative thinking before they can achieve anything worthy of praise. The Japanese have always led the way in this respect.

  229. Interesting article. I'm disappointed in it. It has very stereotypical racial overtones and undertones.

    I'm a black female student who attended U Waterloo and loved it. I came from a majority white city and enjoyed the diversity at UW.

    I think asian parents and immigrant parents (like my jamaican parents) know and stress the importance of an education. It'll make or break you in this country.

    If people don't want to go to a school because it's too asian, let them go elsewhere. I think it's pathetic to avoid an amazing school for a borderline racist reason.

    Shame on that white mother. Who does she think she is?!

    People just need to remember to speak English and come out and meet the rest of us non-asians. We don't bite. :)

    Peace ppls. And good luck on exams!!

  230. Western is amazing. Stereotypes are not cool

  231. You know I never thought two races can truly live peacefully side by side. It's just a waste of time debating. If Canada decides that there are too many Asians, then let come more blacks or whites. Although I think the universities are still going to be dominated by Asians until the bar lifts specifically towards Asians.

    On the other hand, universities are only 4-years (or 6 if you go for a master degree). I thought all CEO's come from sales reps and/or business background. Sales reps and business are still very white. A positive for those who worry. If you know being a slave a.k.a. a white-collar labor is not something you would want, let us Asians be the slaves, so that you can continue to have the party. And if you don't mind more Jane/Finch, go ahead give it as a guidance to the Canadian High Commissions so you can have less competition with a bit more crimes.

    It's not like the Swedes, Germans, or Americans are going to come to live in Canada like crazy, so 200,000 immigrants per
    year as quota is only going to make Canada less and less white. It's Canadian policy and you have all the rights to change and update it.

    Chinese or Asians are not the group who make babies like Arabians or blacks, just keep the door shut there shall be less and less percentage of the white collar labors.

    Cheers!

  232. Actually, a lot of the Koreans and Chinese students at U of T party and drink alcohol. They also play basketball, go to the gym, hang out and many other things. They may study and spend a lot of time in the library, but just like "White" students, many of them also like to have fun.
    Just because they aren't partying and getting drunk with White kids, doesn't mean they aren't partying and drinking.
    Moreover, who is to say that having fun must be drinking alcohol and partying?

  233. Well said. You make a more compelling argument than the article.

    Please check out my reply on the thread.

  234. I learned not to trust statistics in the fourth grade, numbers are so easily manipulated as 'evidence'. Do you also believe that because 4 in 5 dentists recommend Crest toothpaste that it's the best?

    • YES I DO!

  235. I will be going to UBC next year in September. UBC is often called "University of Billions of Chinese". Since the average of applying to UBC has become higher and higher, Chinese- Canadian students study harder and achieve high marks in their academics. In my highschool, I spend most of my time on studying chemistry, biology and physics, and volunteering because I will be applying to the science faculty of UBC. I have little time for "socializing with friends" and "doing whatever I want (quoted from my Caucasian classmates)" I am being to competitive, working to hard? Or, the society is full of competitions? My Caucasian friends always laugh at me, "OMG! Why are you studying so hard? You make me feel bad." Is it me making them feel bad, or they are REALLY BAD. Why do I need to be as slack off as my Caucasian classmates, having fun all day, gossiping, and partying, so they could feel better, fair?

    • One has to admit the culture clash does exist. The white cultures seem to be the wheat farmers culture — it's important to work together and luck (such as weather) is important. The yellow culture is the rice peasants culture — it's important to work solo or in a small group and work hard. These two cultures are compared in the book called "The Outliers" (a NY Times best seller). And I think the black culture is the weed growers culture and the Arabic culture is 101 nights culture.

      BTW, I am still wondering why nobody complains about Jews working like horses?

      • Please allow me to elaborate it a bit — working together in white culture means you don't let friends down in anyways, whether it is that you work too hard to make them feel less good, or you don't smoke if everyone else does, likewise for quitting smoking (works both ways, don't get me wrong). The Asian culture is more being competitive — you need to be a best if not the best. It's just cultural difference, but it is important to some people one way or another. Doesn't it sound scary, I mean the multiculturalism? You simply don't let two male rabbits live in the same cage, or you'd better be prepared to spend every second of your time watching!

        • I have something to add. “White” is not a viewpoint or culture and do not speak with one voice. There are polish, italian, ukrainians, bulgarians etc living in Canada and depending on family and nationality and backgrounds, they all have differing views about the importance of education. So it’s not the case that there is a “white culture” of ‘partying it up’. Portraying the debate in this way unnecessarily alienates one race against another as if they speak with a collective voice or viewpoint, which they do not. I still think the core of the issue is that white kids who are used to being the majority don’t like the idea of being the minority for once in some given setting. It’s a hypocritical point of our status of multiculturalism that we cherish diversity only up till some extent, or only if the dominant class or race remains dominant. Underlying this article is still the feeling that “asians’ are still foreigners and not Canadians. Their views are foreign, their language is foreign and their attitude towards school, while admirable in some respects, are foreign.

          • Appreciated. Nevertheless, regardless what the "other" whites you mentioned think themselves, *the* whites still *see* them as Canadians. Just as Asians are seen as Chinese no matter what. It's called "blend in" in Canadian English.

            For the 1st generation immigrants, the "minority" feel may not be that different for Russians versus for Chinese; but it make a heck of difference between 2nd generation Asians and Whites. It's undeniable. Bread still tastes different from rice. The passage is simply not there for certain group of cultures.

            Stephen Harper can call himself an Irish or whatever all day long if he will, it ain't going to make a difference. But I don't think a 4th generation Asian man walking on U of T campus would be perceived more Canadian than Chinese.

            In fact, a lot of Asian U of T and U of W students posting here are not immigrants, but these born Canadian
            Asians have nevertheless stir the Scotish nerve of MaCleans. ;-)

    • I suggest improving your english skills.

  237. CONTINUED——–
    I immigrated to Canada five years ago. My parents spent a large sum of money on immigration. They want me to have good education. So, the author of this brainless article is telling me to disappoint my parents and just destroy my future. Well, look up, you, author! Did you not study hard in university, so now you can publish articles? Could tell yourself just to be slack off and party all day long? Don't you have a child too? You could simply tell your child stop studying right now and have fun. Really~ I am serious!!!! I am a Canadian citizen. Caucasian Canadains are Canadians as well. We all have the same rights. "No one is more equal than others!" It is my business to whether work hard or fail every course in highschool. You do not have right to make a decision for me.

  239. Universities, after all, are still academic institutions where you go to STUDY. Yes, Study!! You know, opening books and reading those texts and then memorizing what you have read? It's not our fault that education is highly valued in our Asian culture because we believe that books hold much knowledge and that is the most precious treasure that you can ever find on this earth. I don't think we could've put a man on the moon just by drinking and dancing on the tables in a pub, nor could we have invented emails where one can receive a piece of mail within just seconds just by skipping classes and banging sorority girls. No, everything we take for granted every day are here because there are people who you call “don't have a life” decided to study to acquire the knowledge and made them instead of just socializing and wasting time on booze and that if majority of them are us Asians, then I am proud because we are making a difference in the world; we are doing something worthwhile with our lives.

  240. And I want to say this to every single Asian kid who's being bullied right now, don't be afraid, just keep on being yourself and study. One day, you WILL be taller and bigger than any of these pathetic bullies because after all, when pushes come to shovel, it is WHAT you know that counts, regardless who you know. Just remember that!

  241. I agree a vibrant university campus life is great to have but since when it MUST centre around booze and getting wasted and then skip classes and even exams the next day because of hangovers? So this is how you repay your parents for their efforts in giving you the academic opportunities that they probably never had with their hard-earned money? This is how you answer to countless taxpayers who are forced to give up their portion of the food for you to study? Go get yourself wasted on booze? When you are going to grow up and be like an adult? You know, I really don't know why this "white" mother in the article is complaining that we Asians are taking all the university opportunities from her son. All her son is gonna do is drink in university anyway, we Asians did her a favor and saved her some money; she could've sent her son to a pub and that would've served the same purpose but for much cheaper price tag.

  242. LOL You think Asians in US and Canada work hard ? Please, we are already "corrupted" by you "white" people and learned to "enjoy the life". You should see how Asians study not just in China but whole Asia, how many hours they spend on studying and the amount of practice materials they go through to prepare for entrance exams to universities because of scarcity of academic and job opportunities over there! You ain't see nothing yet!! University standards in North America is a joke comparing to universities like in China. Foreign students from universities in China get accepted to universities here in North America AND receive scholarships is like a walk in the park for them! Everybody in China knows that a Graduate degree from North American universities is a joke and earns no respect in China. And universities here are still lowering standards just to cater to "white" students??! This is ridiculous!!

  243. "So I would argue that as long as you are focused, there's no reason that school has to entirely consume your life."

    That's easy for you to say as you're in the top 99th percentile! Don't forget that most people cannot do all that you're doing based on the fact that you're naturally smart. You're an exception, not the rule. I'm happy that you can do it all!

  244. If Asian students work hard and get into university by merit there is no issue there–to imply otherwise is to cater to racism. Regarding the lack of socialization between Asians and non-Asians, as a current college student (Langara College) I can say that depends very much on the individuals involved. So what if lots of Asian students go to university–precisely how is society harmed by this?

  245. Good Job, guys~~ I really feel that the comments are BETTER than the actual article~~~ Wasted three hours of my time reading those comments~~ Maybe now I really need to go back to study for my big bio final exam~~ Sorry white kids, I am studying hard again~~ And sorry in advance that I may get an A+ in this course~~

  246. Wow, great generalizations MacLean's. Now if only I could come up with a general expression to calculate the expected number of negative comments this article will yield.

    I'm sorry, am I being too "Asian"?

    Maybe I should go grab a drink with my non-Asian friends, maybe Samir and Phuong. Oh, what? They're Asian too? I swear if I gave this article to some white kid they'd think that Asians only consisted of the Chinese, because all they do is party and wouldn't know anything.

    Ok, maybe I'll go party with Alexandra, and then make out with one of her random guy friends. Ahh, I'm SOCIALIZING now.

  247. This is a disgusting piece of writing.

    Was there ever an article written about every university being "too white" not so long ago? There didn't seem to be a problem then. Why focus in on this "problem" of there being too many Asians on campus, when a lot of prospective students don't choose Western because it's "too white" or York and UoT Mississauga because it's "too brown."

    I'm sure if you did a study to see how frequent partying affected academic success, you'd find that the more "fun" students had, the lower their grades. Or maybe the students who have the luxury to drink 4 nights a week are in non-demanding programs (that I've heard them admit to).

    cnt'd.

  248. cnt'd.

    I go to Western and there's an "Asian club" called CAISA that integrates students of all ethnicities into their fashion show and other events. So that talk about Asians not being able to mingle is complete rubbish. It's also natural for students of the same program to interact, because they take the same classes, have the same interests. If the music program is predominantly white, it's unfair to say Asians don't mingle with whites. If there is a large proportion of Asians in the engineering program, they can't help it if the other engineering students they need to talk to are Asian as well. I'm Asian and CANADIAN-BORN. I'm majoring in Biology and in English. When I'm in my English classes, I interact with primarily white students, because I'm always the only non-white student in class. When I'm in a science course, I interact with east and southwest Asians, because there aren't that many white students.

    cnt'd

  249. cnt'd.

    Many parents from other backgrounds expect their children to go to university as well. In fact, most immigrant parents would wish that their kids get an education they never had the chance to get. Why don't you go interview them as well? And that comment about Asian parents supporting their children financially more than white parents do MUST BE A JOKE. Come to Western and take a poll. A lot of these immigrant parents are working low-income jobs simply due to lack of education, so it's actually OSAP helping out the kids. A lot of my white friends here don't even qualify for OSAP, because their parents are more-than-able to cover their financial needs.

    Lastly, what was the purpose of including the line about Alexandra looking like she walked out of an Aritzia ad? Are you now subtly commenting on the differences between the way whites and Asians dress? Because an Asian girl can't look like she walked out of an Aritzia campaign? Go to Toronto and look at the ethnic background of the employees working at Aritzia stores. Ask Aritzia employees who their top clients are (ethnically).

    Do more research. Learn how to write effectively and responsibly. Tell your editor to consider other career options.

    • I think I might be in love with you.

      But no, truly, this article could have represented both sides of the story well, if only it was better researched. I can see what the article is referring to in terms of some Chinese students segregating themselves. I go to University of Waterloo myself, and I've seen clusters of Chinese students who spend time exclusively with other Chinese students. Now, this could be from non-acceptance of students from other countries just because they're not Chinese, but it could also be because they don't know how to relate to students from other countries. Culture differences often make it difficult and borderline painful for two groups to mingle, unless there is someone who understands the awkwardness and makes an effort to better things. This effort should be coming from both groups. Unfortunately, a lot of the time, either side is mature or tactful enough to work the situation out. It's too easy to say, "I don't get this person at all, we have nothing in common, forget this."

      I moved here when I was young, and had the chance to learn the language and the culture in a virtually judgement-free environment due to the age of all the students around me. Not everyone has that luxury. Imagine being 17 or 18, and not being able to speak the language or understand the culture at all; how would it feel to try and approach someone who was born here and start a conversation? There must be fear of rejection, or even mockery. Of course, it also depends on your personality. Some people are quiet by nature, and it's hard for them to cross that bridge of communication, even harder when they can barely speak. Should we fault them for that?

      The last point I want to address is that the article boils down to, a) "There are students who want to go to university, but they don't want to compete or feel the pressure from other students who choose to work harder.", and b) "It is a problem there are more Asian students in university than white students and maybe we should do something about it.". Both are immensely stupid ideas, since you work for what you get, and that's the way it should be.

      The article also missed out on the many Asian-Canadian students (myself included) that have a social life, and decent grades.

    • Really? Most of the Chinese kids I know had a full ride to school courtesy of Mom and Dad. Let's just look at it this way: When you have two families of the same income bracket, one being of Chinese descent and the other, multigenerational Anglo, the Chinese family is more likely to give their kid a full ride. But then again, I went to a private school and pretty much all the kids, white or Asian had school university paid for.

  250. People who are commenting are stereotpying whites just as much as asians in this article…not all of us go out drinking and get wasted every night or go to the clubs every weekend and never study.

  251. It seems there is some racism in Ont. in the Toronto and Thunder Bay areas. I`ve seen this kind of profiling in Macleans and other Ontario media before. Maybe you need to do something about it.

    • "Maybe you need to do something about it". Who is this "you"?

  252. Why does race matter in the first place? You want to go to a university that is right for you, so who cares whose in that school or more specifically what race dominates the school. You want to do well in university, and go to the one thats best for your program. Its stupid to throw away a perfectly fine university just because its asian dominated. Asians go to U of T is because its the best uni in Canada, so why not? Like seriously, this is just racist if you refuse to go to an "asian" school. Theres nothing wrong with asians going to university and their parents trying to get them there. Its not a crime to work hard. They deserve it just as much as anyone else who works there butt off. Canada is a diverse country and non race discriminating. How can it follow that statement, if Canadian universities start refusing extremely smart asians and taking in dumb other race kids just because to make it a diverse school. This writer needs to be fired, its stirring so much controversy its not even funny. What a bias piece of crap…

  253. i'm not surprised an article like this has appeared… its a topic many talk about – but in private settings. this does not belong in a published paper or magazine. let alone mclean's. that's just disgraceful on their part.
    it is clearly not a piece with fact… although they do include a few 'stats' it is an opinion piece.
    and what ever happened to alexandra? why did she chose to go to u of t? how does she feel now that she's a student there?
    i feel like the article has a different tone at the end compared to the beginning. the end is less hostile.
    if nothing else, i'm glad they included the comments of the president of u of t and presidents/secretaries of the other universities which are presented as "too asian"

    if person a gets better grades, of course they should be welcomed into the university scene before person b. race/colour/gender/sexual orientation… these things should not make any difference. since when was 'hard working' a problem?

    • White people do talk about this in private settings? Many talk about it?

  254. It's a ridiculously amateurish piece of rubbish that MacLean has published in my opinion. Perhaps the authors should go back to a non-Asian school to upgrade their skills and their editor should work harder at their job in order to avoid such embarassing occurences in the future.

    Asian kids and their parents – just carry on and work hard so that you can continue to pay taxes to the Canadian government and get ridiculed in major Canadian media outlets for doing so. You won't hear anyone from the authority protesting this racist garbage since it's free (hate) speech and everyone is entitled to it. I'm getting depressed here.

  255. this article should be deleted.

  256. This article is absolutely absurb, with racial injustice and an effort to sell magazines. I cannot believe, that Maclean's would publish an article like this. It's composed of racist comments, like "Asian" and "Caucasian" and "Black". I don't think we need you "writers" to tell us what race we belong to. Maybe instead of negatively hurting people who are Chinese, people should stop partying hard, drinking alcohol and maybe start focusing on school and achieve more in your education & life. I will never buy Maclean's ever again. With these kind of articles, making our beautiful country less welcome of multicultural people, I can conclude this articles is repulsive and not worth it.

    • YOU'RE RIGHT. all of this is BS… i'm caucasian… so what? i got into u of t and i hang out with all of the races. nothing's different.

  257. Oh, and one more thing. These students speaking in these articles need to stop worrying about other races, and maybe start reflecting on how they will be terribly unsuccessful in the future. Wow, using the terms, "bananas"? Real mature…. and wait. You're university students? What a joke. Stop ruining Canada's reputation and setting terrible examples for everyone out there.

    • LOL, SOOOOOO TRUE. these people are so stupid. why are we referring to other people's race? …

  258. How come nobody calls aboriginals racist for hating white man for coming to North America and "stealing their land"?

    The numbers of orientals (latin for eastern, by the way) coming into Canada can be overwhelming if you're not used to it. But this is exactly how the aboriginals felt with Europeans coming in. It's human nature to feel this way.

    The only way racism can be conquered is to discuss these things. Keeping quiet and pretending these feeling is NOT solving anything really.

    • so what exactly are Asian stealing here…..your marks? You're not used to multiculturalism? sorry, you live in Canada, get used to it.

  259. I've read through about half the comments. One aspect of the article that I think needs to be considered is the issue of parental sacrifice, more specifically, the idea that maybe there are cultural differences in what parents are prepared to do for their children and that that has an effect on academic achievement and the percentage of university graduates in a given community. I am a middle-aged caucasian university graduate who has been working in East Asia for almost five years. The sacrifices that East Asian parents make for their children's education are astounding. (Second-generation plus) European-Canadian parents might feel like they sacrifice for their children, but due to cultural 'silos' have no idea what sacrifices are being made in other communities. I think the article was a bit superficial, but let's look carefully at this phenomenon. For example, how many Asian "deadbeat dads" are there? That would be an interesting statistic.

  260. I think it's worthwhile looking what programs are, and are not, being adopted by East-Asian students (since Chinese, Taiwanese, Korean, and Japanese lineages seem to be the focus of "Asian" in this article.)

    I graduated in 2006 with a BA in History and Political Science at UVic and hardly saw any East-Asian or South-Asian students in my classes. Granted, UVic's a pretty white campus (I'm caucasian and would wager that around 80% of undergrads at UVic are too), but there's certainly an ethnic/cultural division between programs and faculties. I'm back for an Econ degree and an MA following that, and my first and second year Econ classes are about 50/50 Asian/other.

    What I find troublesome is that some young East and South-Asian students are being forced or persuaded into studying "get-rich" programs like Engineering, Medicine, Business, Finance, Accounting, and the hard sciences, over muted personal desires to study in the Social Sciences or Humanities.

    • This is just a personal choice….nothing wrong right??? By the way…choosing Engineering, Medicine, Business, Finance or Accounting can't guarantee you to be a great success in the career…if you can't pass the tests, pass the professional examinations and last but not all, can not prove to be capable on the job no matter you are dr, engineer, accountant etc…after all…..it is just the merits….so your idea is wrong.

      • Their parents forcing them into a program is their family issue. Parents who kick their kids out of the house at 18 is also an issue. Which one do you think you rather?

  261. By Asians, do they mean Russians or Indians??? Do they mean Mongloids? or Orientals?

  262. I don't know, but I get the feeling that Canada is starting to become like Mississippi: backward as well as racist. Just as all the whites in Mississippi go to Ole Miss while the blacks go to U-Miss, you see whites in Canada (and the US) go to colleges and universities that may or may not be as academically challenging, but at least they can hang out with other white folk. But not to worry: you simply limit the number of students visas to Asians, and bingo! Slots that once went to Asians end up going to whites, and when Asian countries can't compete with the West, we blame it on their poltical and economic systems. How convenient!

  263. Regardless of all the stereotyping, border-line racist remarks, the worst thing to come out of this article is the fact that it may affect an asian out there who falls into this "hard working" stereotype, and would like to shed it by doing the exact opposite. This "asian" may try to fit in with underachieving groups so that the can fit better into society, and may go to extremes to prove he/she does not fit into that stereotype.

    I would hate to see this person do drugs, drink themselves silly, ignore school, and party until morning so that they can finally be rid of this stereotype that Macleans (of all magazines) is reinforcing. This irresponsible journalism is aimed only to garner attention, as these writers have no mind of the possible consequences it can have on younger generations.

    The lack of facts, and lazy reliance on stereotypes to create any substance for this article makes it easy to understand the writer's bias towards not working hard. But hey, maybe she was good in volleyball.

  264. As someone who is very familiar with U of T, I can indeed verify that there are a lot Asians at the campuses. My only question is "Who cares?" If U of T is a dominant "Asian" school, and having a largely majority race at one school is bad, how come "White" schools like Queens, Western and McGill aren't subject to more scrutiny? The articles states anecdotal stories as facts (boo hoo, Asians stick together) but so do whites with other whites. The only difference at U of T is that white people suddenly feel like they are the "minority" now. Welcome to the changing times! Canada is a multicultural society, a changing mosaic. Cultures come in, and adaptation should work BOTH WAYS. If you want people to become more like the norm (which the article indicates you'll find at "white" schools) then feel free to move down to the USA where it's a melting pot. Canadian is dynamic and damn challenging and that's why we're great. Today marks the day when brave soldiers gave up their lives to fight for the principles of these country … the racial undertones of this article disgraces their sacrifices and the FACT that the article was retracted, and EDITED to seem less racist shows how much of a joke this is to journalism.

  265. If Maclean magazine is so irresponsible in publishing such damaging article by palying the RACE card, let hit them where it hurts. Boycott the magazine and parent company Rogers that own this magazine. Canadian are of many races. Lets live together and pay no attention to this ignorant authors and editor of this magazine.
    I'm cancelling my roger's cable and other servises.

  266. I'm Asian, but according to this article I'm actually white.

    Has my life been a lie?

  267. parents wanting their children to go to university is not a bad thing. it's ridiculous that it's painted to be this way.
    this is a very poignant response to this article. a MUST READ: http://theashcan.com/2010/11/11/too-white-the-mac…

  268. this article is so laden with stereotypes that it becomes almost painful for me to read. not only does it promotes stigma on asians and non-asians alike, but almost encourages ignorance…. we were all born here, surrounded by different cultures + ethnic groups, our parents wanted the best for us, we worked hard to get were we are in life. i'm insulted that a popular magazine like macleans has the audacity to question the impact of my enrollment based on my ethnic background, and not on my academic performance.

    the reason why this is even an issue is b/c "An ‘Asian' school has come to mean one that is so academically focused that some students feel they can no longer compete…" perhaps instead of trying to deter asians families wanting their kids to get higher education (which i interpret as a form of mainstream media oppression), they should look at what the issues of other kids. A larger % of a minority group is applying to university, to then make up the majority of the population, and now we have a headline reading "is this TOO ASIAN?" no way would this have read "is Western TOO WHITE??" you can tear it apart anyway you want, but the foundational issue is one of ethnic hierarchy.

  269. Can you really blame members of one cultural group to stick together, especially when there are both language and cultural barriers to overcome? There are still so much more common interest and topics within the same cultural group. For one I don't understand why "social life" must involve partying and drinking. Something as simple as TV shows, an immigrant probably won't understand most of jokes in Friends even if he understands every word simply because he wasn't raised in the culture.

    As a Waterloo Engineering graduate, I remember we had as much fun in our study sessions as when we go party. Our group studied together before exams and go breakfast together afterwards. There were drinking and partying as well but that's not the only way to socialize or have fun.

    As for speaking "proper" English, I am sure everyone who managed to enter university has at least basic English skills. Some may not speak as well as others or may have thicker accent, but you encounter these people in real life as well. The best teacher I ever had was my highschool science teacher who has an extremely thick Eastern European accent. Difficult to understand at first, but once you get used to it, she is the best teacher. The only students who complain are the ones who are too lazy to pay attention.

  270. This is absolutely ridiculous. I'm an Asian born in Canada and I'd like to think I am no different than my white friends, other than the colour of my skin. I study hard because I want to have my opportunities in the future not because thats what my parents force me to do. If we were to change our system to that of the one in the US where there is racial profiling, then it would destroy the entire basis of innovation in Canada. Why do you think countries like China and India are experiencing unprecedented growth and intellectual innovation? If you limit knowledge and talent at the university level in Canada you can bet that you will never catch up to the rest of the world. BY THE WAY, I have my 3.9 GPA and I'm involved with many extracirriculars that do not involve violin or piano (as you've so racially put it). Just because some Asians are starting to take opportunities away from white people doesn't mean that we need to stop them from getting an education. Honestly, this is just ignorant.

  271. This article should belong to garbage can. I am very dissappointed that Maclean published such kind of stupid article. If this is not racist, then what it is? Nazi wanted to distinguish Jewish or not, now Canadian University should distinguish your race too? I will never read any Maclean magzine, since it is just waste my time.

  272. … The French in France think North Americans work too hard. Look where their economy is now.

  273. I'm a little disturbed that this article was published the day before Remembrance Day. I stood in the cold honouring the men and women who gave their lives to defend our values, only to read that for some, our society is not as inclusive as we imagine it to be.

    I also wonder what happens to an Canadian (yes, Canadian) like myself who values not just academic excellence but, as the article says, "school lives around social interaction, athletics and self-actualization—and, yes, alcohol." Does my embracing both sides of a false dichotomy make me inferior… and if so, to which racial group – hardcore Asians? Or Caucasians?

  274. "Asian" is not a language.

    • Are you a moron or what? No one is saying "Asian" is a langage. It was in a context so that one does not have to write all of the Asian lanugages. You must be one of those that can not make it in those colleges where the Asians study hard to be the best. LOL

  275. As a graduate in One of the eastern universities mentioned in this article, I am surprised and amazed that such a reputable magazine like Macleans would publish this article……..I guess the writers lost spots in engineering and computer science to Asians hence their beef and this article…

  276. I enjoyed the article. Not because it was profound – in fact it was a rather shallow depiction of the subject matter – but the people quoted are quite funny indeed. I don’t understand the outrage in the commentary, how is this at all racist? Just because the article describes some viewpoints which might borderline racist attitudes doesn’t mean the entire article is or even endorses racist opinions. If anything I see the article as an attempt to bring these issues to light and generate public discourse. Knee-jerk reactions and taking offence to something as benign as this won’t benefit anything. Read it, have a laugh, move on.

    • The title and description are pretty racist already. It's like Asian admissions are a plague that needs to be avoided.

      I find it more hilarious than racist though, with all the stereotyping with no real facts.

  277. By the way, the stereotypes were portrayed in depth in the article except with one flaw… the picture on the left should've been replaced by some Asian girls posing with V-signs. Normal Asians don't go around campus taking pictures with a huge ass flag of China, that may give a wrong depiction to people who don't go to the "Asian" universities and don't know what it's like. If MacLean's is going to impose stereotypes, please use a picture that can represent the stereotype being portrayed.

  278. Is it just me or has this article been edited a bit…maybe to hide its racial undertones or something…I mean, the subtitle says it's about "Worries that efforts in the U.S. to limit enrollment of Asian students in top universities may migrate to Canada" but that's not really the focus of the article is it? Makes it sound like they're really concerned on behalf of the Asians.
    (When actually they talked about the fact that Canadian universities are "in a state of denial" about "this issue" of having a lot of Asians in their schools; in other words that they should follow suit with the U.S?

  279. How can you publish this and still call yourselves a Canadian magazine? I am never picking up a Macleans ever again, this article was offensive and painful to complete but I’m glad I read it – now I know what kind of people this magazine is writing for; the ignorant, singleminded, racist folk that sit and blame all failures associated with them on this ambiguous group you call “Asians”.

  280. The western resident should learn and understand the wise saying: "物尽天择，适者可存。"
    or an extreme version, which is "故天将降大任于是人也，必先苦其心志，劳其筋骨，饿其体肤，空乏其身，行拂乱其所为，所以动心忍性，曾益其所不能。"

    If you understand that, you back up Bill Gates.

  281. I am a second generation Canadian. My grandparents immigrated from Holland many years ago.
    I have friends whose families have been here a lot longer than mine has been. They are asian. Am I less Canadian then them? How is it that I am recognized as Canadian before they are?

    I am repulsed by the idea of "too asian". Was Germany "too Jewish" in the 1930's?
    this is how it begins. How it has begun over the history of mankind.
    We are Canadians. This is our country, and those who want this beautiful land to be their home I welcome.
    This article is racist and I am disappointed in Macleans for wording an article so terribly.

    The only issue I can see at the moment, is the fact that the government is not supporting Canadian students (be they white asian, black or purple). Instead of giving money to international students, why not help those struggling here to pay for their education. Those who plan on staying here and making this country a better, more equitable place.

    The issue is not about race. I know plenty of people of asian decent who are my wonderful friends. And I know some white people who are completely rude and anti social. I am white. I go to U of T because I chose to work hard. I wanted this. People no matter what race have the ability to acheive what they want. They just need to get up and do it.

    Please, think about all of the people reading this article with the horror and confirmation of the racism around them.

    Do better next time.

  282. Have the editors of Macleans lost their minds? I'm assuming the authors were trying to raise an thought-provoking (?) point here but all it does in reality is stereotype everyone based on race. A Caucasian girl who dresses like an Artizia billboard?! What does that even mean?

    This article is an embarrassment to everyone. Cultures have been grossly generalized. Schools have been advertised as party schools/nerdy schools.

    Editors – have the sales of Macleans gone down so much that you have succumb to publishing trashy topics? At least your readership has probably skyrocketed after this article. High 5! I for one will be unsubscribing.

  283. Who are the authors? What biases do they bring?

    I am so disappointed with Macleans…this piece is in the Fox News category. O'Reilly will surely welcome "journalists" Stephanie Findlay and Nicholas Köhler; go feed the beast.

  284. cont'd…

    "That Asian students work harder is a fact born out by hard data. They tend to be strivers, high achievers and single-minded in their approach to university."

    This is a complete fallacy. What is "hard data"? Good grades? How do you go from good grades to strivers, high achievers, and single-minded? If x, then y? Who's heard of natural ability?

    What "Asian students"? The world population is 60% Asian. Is it difficult to imagine the diversity there? Heard of GENERALIZATION?

  285. This is an issue that’s been one of the undercurrents in student decisions about which university to choose.

    Personally, I applaud Canada’s stance about meritocracy because in a true system of equal opportunity, people who work harder should be allowed to reap the rewards of their gains. If a student is highly academically focused then they deserve to reap just rewards for that work, even if they sacrifice a social life for it. It’s a choice that they make on their own, and universities that strive for academic and extracurricular excellence should accept the fact that one often comes at the cost of the other.

    I don’t see this as a problem of cultural difference or even lack of interaction but one of choice. If you want to spend your university career partying it up and “having a life”, then you should be prepared to reap the costs of those choices. Likewise, if you are all work and no social interaction, then those flaws will show themselves later in life. These are areas of personal choice. The role of the university is to give students options. They shouldn’t begin to advertise campaigns of forced integration of a student body.

    Also, the idea that there has to be a proportionate number of ‘white students’ in universities is absurd and it’s disgusting that Ivy League schools do this. It has to do with the entire hypocritical concept of immigration where they advertise to people to come to a country for a better life and opportunities and effectively trick people to immigrate to they take up the less desired jobs of a country but then when immigrants and immigrant children actually manage to succeed better than the majority, there come complaints that they are “stealing jobs”. It happens in the same way in universities. The moment a visible minority is overly successful in one area, there are criticisms because it intimidates the majority and complaints about “Un-Canadian”, “too-Asian” etc still cropping up everywhere.

    Bottom line is that people get what they work for. If you’re not happy about something, change it and stop complaining about it.

  286. cont'd…

    The article talks about Asian parents, and a culture of hard work… so where do Asians adopted by Caucasian families fit into the picture?

    "Asian-Canadian students are far more likely to talk about and assert their ethnic identities than white students."

    Any non-white in a Western nation, such as the US, or Canada, is race-conscious (some choose to ignore or simply do not care..the fact of the matter is, non-whites are perfectly aware that they are NOT white). Ethnic consciousness is one step up, and may or may not be asserted by an individual depending on a number of factors.

    A white person in a white society has WHITE PRIVILEGE, and don't anybody ever forget that.

    IF YOU ARE NOT WHITE, GO EDUCATE YOUR WHITE FRIENDS. EVEN THOSE WHO HAVE EMPATHY. EVERYONE CAN LEARN SOMETHING.

  287. cont'd…

    Everyone is racist. Everyone. Black, yellow, white, brown, polka dot. The first step is to admit that prejudices exist inside. It's that easy.

    What is most troubling, besides the fact that this article was published by Macleans (hmm, who has power here…), is that the "journalists" seem to question the concept of MERITOCRACY. The funniest thing has to be the irony of North America's meritocratic roots in founding father, the good WASP, Benjamin Franklin himself.

  288. I am a Chinese Canadian living here over 10 years; I worked in High Tech Company doing R&D and engineering job. I did not have social connection here in Canada which can help me to land easy money job. The factors which lead me to professional job are education, work experience and hard working.

    Now I have children, I wish them to have high education by studying hard, to have higher pay job by working harder and smarter. There is no way for my children to set up many social connections to get some easy high pay jobs in government, monopoly organization, union or places where “soft” skills dominate

    Part 1

  289. I do not think my kids will get bright future by "drinking, clubbing, sport” without outstanding hard skills. I encourage them to learn French even though English is good enough in our province. I would save my money for sponsoring my kid's interest of Swimming, Chess, Piano and any other hobbies except drug and alcohol. It is really fun for sharing some entry level probability questions with my kid who is interested.

    Even though my kids did quite well at school in Canada, they will still be hard to catch up with other kids in China or India where Maths and Science education now are way ahead of Canada.

    Is there anything wrong here for minority children to get success in universities? I saw there may be hard time ahead for my kids in the future if such racism or ignorance articles start flooding over Canadian media, is Canada on the way to Germany before WWII?

    Part Two.

  290. Dear author, if someday some native guy writes an article called 'Too white?' , how would make it you feel?

  291. I don't really want to get into the debate of whether this article was racist or not, but I personally feel that the writers have scratched the surface of a social problem that is present in universities and even the country (Richmond, Surrey and White Rock – example for fellow British Columbians). The problem is that a lot of people stick to their own groups and never bother to mingle with people from other groups.

    I have been at UBC for a long time, and I have seen this time and time again: Chinese, Korans, "Whites", brown etc etc you name it, hanging out in a pack. I have actually grown so sick of it that I feel awkward hanging out with 3-4 people of my skin colour. The article, however bad it was, does point out the fact that benefits of diversity doesn't come from just bringing in groups of people of different colour to one place, but comes from interaction between these groups (fostering of which is the responsibility of all concerned).

    • sorry to hear you're uncomfortable around people of your own race…

  292. If grades are what it takes to get you into the top schools, then you better be working pretty damn hard to get those grades. University isn't high school, and your teacher isn't here to hold your hand and make sure that everyone in class is "doing well." In real life, there IS competition, and you will have to work hard if you want to be better than the other people you're competing against… but hey if you think that's too much sacrifice for your social life then good for you, because no one is forcing you to do anything… just don't expect to come in first.
    oh and if you're even remotely thinking of applying for grad school, the old "things other than grades are just as important" isn't going to get you one of those 20 admission spots out of the 500 applicants.

    • 20 admission spots, 500 applicants… 400 of which are coming from a different country. sweet.

  293. Guys, forget about it, it's not worth it. Go back, study harder and go for a graduate study in the states, find a job there.

  294. YES! I agree with you social life is a very relative term. Some people binge others go to shows and other play ps 2… MacLean's has no right to judge what constitutes a "good" social life (and by good social life… I'm going to guess they are referring to drinking, but that may be a bit of a leap).

    And what on earth happens if you aren't a high scoring "Asian" (Really quite an ambiguous term), this article puts an amount of pressure on you to conform to your racial stereotype… does it not?

  295. lol ryerson civil

  296. Asian university students are false high achievers. I have a graduate engineering degree from UofT and also took several undergraduate courses on math, physics and computer science there. I can assure everybody that 100 percent of the asian students I met got their good grades by working in teams when forbidden, copying solutions from solved old assignments and by having unfair access to previous years midterms and final exams gotten as legacy from they fellow countrypeople who were their seniors. For asian students plagiarism and academic fraud was something natural and the way of life.

    Now, you can wonder why those asians high achievers do not trascend as scientist, researchers, entrepreneurs, social or political activist while the less high achieving caucasian, black, latin or middle eastern people do transcend.

    Here's the reason: unlike the asians they did not cheated their degrees just by fraud!!!! the less achievers worked respecting the rules and put some true effort on everything they did. This achievement-by-clean-work attittude drives to true results and true scientific, economic and social development contribution.

    • Wow, so THAT'S their secret. Thank you for clearing things up. All this time I thought Asians who did well were just hard workers and/or naturally gifted. Obviously they must ALL must be cheating in order to be getting such high grades!!! Everything makes sense now.

    • What the f*k is this? 'natural and the way of life'. That's racist. The main reason that 'those asians high achievers do not trascend as scientist, researchers, entrepreneurs, social or political activist while the less high achieving caucasian, black, latin or middle eastern people do transcend' is that they are too practical too money oriented too short sighted but not because 'plagiarism' or 'fraud'.

    • so I'm guessing you've never seen any other race cheat? that's really sad, you should go see, it's quite exciting actually!

    • Hi, first of all. respect to you since you already graduated..
      Now, for most of courses that I know of, the midterms and finals make up 75% of the course mark are written under a supervised manner so the I guess we cant really "work in groups". And if we have got alright on the midterms and finals ( which is absolutely critical to get a 4.0), then dont you think that we are capable of doing the rest of 25% equally well if we did it by ourselves? Did it ever occur to you maybe we work together b/c it is more fun since we can joke around a little? About the part regarding getting previous exams, I am not sure when did u go to UT engineering or what kind of prof you had, but ALL my prof provides prev exams on THEIR BEHALF to help us study, so …..And according to you, since majority of my profs are asian, then i guess all of them are bunch of useless xxxxx who doesn't know xxxx…and just out of curiosity, i would guess u are doing quite well now since you actually respect fair rules and I am sure that there is not a single asian in your workplace or anything equally demanding because we cannt do xxxx except for cheating.

  297. why don't you say chinese directly.shame on you to post this on maclean.

    • yeah i wondered that as well.. it was so ambiguous as if Asia is a country. Only talks about Taiwan or China or HK Chinese….

    • anne, why did you assume he/she can do chinese?

  298. Relax people, nobody knows what is Macleans besides canadian.

    This is not New York Times, or Washington Post.

    Macleans market is so niche, only canadian caveman read it.

    • you are reading it! man.

  299. This is how the game is played:
    We work extremely hard at school to graduate with honours, and go back "Asia" to get a nice mid-level job at a multinational or BB bank. We choose UT or Waterloo because it is well known in "Asia" with some alumnus at those multinationals or BB banks. A foreign university on the resume looks good on paper because it makes us look like we have a language advantage (English, and native "asian" language). This ultimately makes us look more cultivated and can bring more experiences to the table than other candidates who studied at a domestic university in "Asia" as we have experienced a foreign culture. We end up getting hired for said mid-level job and we end up making more $$$ than if we were working in Canada.

    we have difficulty mingling with the whites because of differences in culture and the language barrier. what we deem as "fun" is different from what they think is fun. it's not about discrimination.

    • You wrote it out right there.

    • Well said. I totally agree, being a first generation myself. And I am sending my daughter to a school in the states if she can do well in SAT. And yeah, I can afford it even though I have only been here for a decade ;-)

      Next, something off the topic,…

      According to some study and I am sorry that I forgot the source, but I am sure one can google it out. Asians are 8 points lower on language IQ's, admit it! But they are much higher on analytics and quantitative. I sometimes just don't understand those whites keep asking Asians to be better at their language and blame Asians for their own low IQ on math. It does tell how low IQ they have on analytical reasoning.

    • well said, straightforward. But the 'white' canadians may not know that and they thought students like you wanted to stay in Canada.

      But there is a problem you may not aware, even the asian kids grown up here and will stay here after university they still do not mingle much with the 'white' kids, even without language barriers and much less culture difference. We do spend more time in general, average than the 'white' kids.

      To correct you, I think the mid-level job here that are taken by 'white' guys probably get paid way more than what you will make back in asia.

    • Well here how it works for me:

      I work hard at University (I am a straight A student). I also make room for life, and while I spend a lot of time studying, I maintain a healthy balance. I watch asian people in my classes who barely speak english pass exams and assignments because they are marked easier because english is their second language. They don't bother with a social life so while straight A's are great, they don't beat A+'s. So… I don't get scholarships, I don't get into grad school…etc etc… meanwhile, you've used up my educational resources and then effed off back home. ANd What is it that you are contributing to this country?

  300. The authors barely made an effort in trying to cover up the amount of racism in this article. For example, when quoting the UT president who had made a valid point in that Asian students do participate in extracurricular activity, the authors were quick to write it off as being "in a state of denial". Did they expect that people would agree with an article written from such a biased standpoint?

    • I as a chinese do not mind the way the article talks. I talk like that too, all the time, since most of it probably is true. The whole thing the article is talking about is not a problem at all, let the people decide where they go for university. If they think it's too asian then choose some other university. I, again as an asian, I really want my kids to go to some universities that is less asian since I do think that 'canadian-ness' or 'wordliness' for that matter should not be '60% asian'.

      • and since when did "canadian-ness" constitute considering the amounts of a particular ethnicity as a factor in choosing a university?
        those 60% asians that you mentioned? Most of those are Canadian too

        • give you an example, I would not move to Richmond bc even I could afford it.

          • that is not relevant

            As a Canadian, I take pride in that we accept people of different ethnic backgrounds, and by accepting them they too are also Canadian.
            What you are inferring is that Asians in Canada are not actually Canadian.

          • There is a difference between Asians who become Canadians, and Asians who happen to obtain a Canadian Passport.

          • Yes, i agree, there is a difference. However, as a Asian that goes to an "Asian university" myself, I find that while there are undoubtedly a lot of Asians, the majority of them are not "Asians who happen to obtain a Canadian Passport", but Asians that identify themselves as being Canadian, so my point still stands.

          • Well, I think this entire argument is about "Asians who happen to obtain a Canadian Passport," and use Canada without appreciating it's culture. If people who happen to be Asian but are Canadian (contributing to it and fitting into it – not even needing to forget their own culture, but at least adapting to Canadian Culture as well) then I have no problem with that. This is NOT a skin colour issue, it's about what people are doing. Get my in on a debate on white people on welfare and I'l be just as passionate!

          • I understand where you're coming from, but in response to my original post, someone had suggested that she would choose a university that was "less Asian" because it doesn't reflect Canadian culture. My point was that she was assuming that Asians in university mostly are the type to use Canada, but my experience had suggested otherwise.

          • Xinxiang Li,

            Please sharpen up your language and argument, or don't bother posting. In other words, if you've got nothing intelligible to say, just shut up. It's embarrassing and you sound like a junior high school kid, which makes me wonder why you are so consumed in this whole topic to begin with, replying comments with your broken grammar and poor English skills.

            As to your remarks regarding Caucasians as 'leaders' in most faculties, I think that's just unique to your demographic area. Immigrants are often focused near the east or west coast, so the praries have higher percentages of Caucasian community relative the denser cities.

  301. Just be happy Asians are improving your quality of education.

    • that's bogus. I believe what we call 'eduation' today was even invented by the white guys. I can't believe that so many chinese people still think they have a better quality of education. By the way I am Chinese. I think that in most (if not all)the science and tech fields, 'white' guys are in the leading positions. By hunble remember! Cocky won't take you any where.

      • Yeah I do think that's bogus. Just take a look at this Xinxiang Li guy. He seems to be lacking in the spelling or proofreading department.

  302. I think it is quite ridiculous to suggest that the top universities need to accommodate more slackers. There is a reason why top companies hire from these schools, competition is fierce and if you can't handle it stay out of the kitchen. Asian students should be admired for their ambitious and studious characteristics, not put down. Unless, you want your future doctors and scientists to be those slackers who never stayed sober for 4 years.

    • Can some one give me a percentage of Asians in so called 'top companies'? I still believe high grades do not gurantee high performance in real working environment.

    • Or, they get in because taking in international students means $$$$$$$$ for the universities.

  303. I am highly disappointed to see such an article published. I don't see the point of this article. Why didn't the article focus on what the society can learn from Asian communities to help the Black's/ Latino's go to universities? Why didn't the article suggest ways that Asian students to be more active in the "mainstream" culture and develop their social skills? Is there something wrong with the Canadian education system in elementary and high schools for being "behind" in science and math when compared to the Asian countries' counterpart? Instead, this article emphasize on blaming. Asian ppl did this, asian ppl did that…. This is not helping.
    I would call this article racist. It is extremely hurtful. Shouldn't the society be glad to see young ppl focusing on what they value and willing to make sacrifice to work hard towards their goals, regardless of their ethnic background? I am in a professional school and there are people of different backgrounds in my class. All of my classmates, not just Asians, worked hard to get into the program. Competitive programs will stay competitive regardless of what the applicants' skin colours are.

  304. How does MacLean's get to be the voice of "Canadian culture". The only was this so called canadian culture came to surface was through the rape and robbery and forced assimilation.

  305. Asian people (including South Asia, Middle East, East Asia, SE Asia) prize post-secondary education more than other nationalities. Considering Canada has huge immigration population from Asia, and the largest universities are in immigrant-rich cities, put two and two together. I went to U of T. I know what I am talking about. Stastically speaking U of T is made up of few international students in its undergraduate. And fewer of those come from Asia. Most of the students are residents of Canada. So I don't see Canadian universities as having a problem with an "overload" of students coming from Asia. So that point is bunk. I never saw U of T's "culture" shift due to the predominance of Asian people. We are supposed to pride ourselves on being able to freely choose where to study. Encouraging people who don't need to be in an academic environment is just as bad as barring people from learning. That is why we are overwhelmed by debts and underachievers.
    Can I help it if I want to see more engineers and doctors rather than another political science student who doesn't know what to do with his life? If you have a problem with someplace having a large amount of 'Asian' people, then go somewhere else. Nobody is forcing you to interact with them. Worried about competition? Get off your butt and do something. People are rewarded for hard work, not whining. One thing I find humorous in this article is hearing how Western students work "hard." Please, they have never even seen work, come to U of T, you will do some real work.

    • I have to respond to the first sentence of you post.

      "Asian people (including South Asia, Middle East, East Asia, SE Asia) prize post-secondary education more than other nationalities."

      People from all countries, races, nationalities, ethnicities and cultures value the power of a post-secondary education. Please don't make generalizations that only Asian people prize education more than the rest of us. You're educated, you should know better than to make a statement like that. I'm a non-asian minority, my parents are immigrants and they stressed the importance of education from a very young age.

      I only take offence to the beginning of your post. The rest makes sense. Have a nice day. :)

  306. Have you thought about comparing the demographics of university aged residents of Vancouver as opposed to the entire country (11%). I'm guessing the figure is a lot closer to 43%.

  307. Getting into University is a privilege, not a right.
    In the end, only those who deserve to go to University get to go.
    Asians work hard, that's how the majority were raised. There are a ton of Asians who don't work hard and don't get into University, same for caucasians.

    What's the point of arguing?
    They deserved it. They didn't.
    Boo freaking hoo.

  308. Having come from personal experience as a student at U Vic I think it is incredibly unfair to be labled as a white person as a "slacker, drinker and partier". People are making comments saying white kids are spoiled and abuse school paid for by rich parents. How about all the rich Chinese parents paying for their kids to go to school here? How is it fair that a Chinese student who cannot speak English or French can come here and ACTUALLY GET GRADED MORE LENIENTLY in English courses?! Talk about double standards!

  309. PT 2.

    People think it is crazy and racist to have white people benifit from an affermative action type set up. But this has been going on for a long time, if white people are now the visible minority then they should be getting some special treatment. My forefathers did not die in wars, fight for liberties most of us take for granted and work their asses off to have their descendants ousted out of their jobs, schools and culture. I have 5th and 8th generation Japanese Canadian friends. Guess what? They feel the same way I do, alienated and segregated in my own home town. I am all for people entering this country for a better way of life. But not to only move here unwilling to adapt whatsoever to Canadian culture or learn the language and to abuse and take for granted everything that these people fought and died for. Lest we forget.

    • Your forefathers fought to uphold white supremacy? Is that what you are saying? Those liberties that are being taken for granted include the opportunity for a chance at success, not guaranteed success.

      • No…that's not what I am saying. And being a Jewish Canadian I am insulted by that. My Grandfather died in the Holocaust and I know all too well what bigotry and tyranny can bring. I also know all too well how important it is to hold onto values, culture and a way of life. When my Father moved here after the war, he was so proud to be Canadian. He felt so lucky to have a chance here, he adopted to the way of life, learned to speak the language fluently and even joined the Canadian Navy. He never forgot where he came from, but he also never forgot where he ended up.

        • I agree with you completely! (student). There is a huge difference between "white supremacy" and being passionate about maintaining the traditions and cultures of your own country. We can't even say "Merry Christmas" anymore because we are so bloody afraid of offending other cultures that came to Canada after it was an established country. And I didn't even see anything about "white people" in your post…

          • People think it is crazy and racist to have white people benifit from an affermative action type set up. But this has been going on for a long time, if white people are now the visible minority then they should be getting some special treatment.

            Did you miss that part? What I suggest that both of you read up upon is white privilege.

            What exactly do you consider Canadian culture which you are both struggling mightily to preserve? Is it hockey? If so, non whites including Asian Canadians also play hockey. They also go to Tim Horton's they also fought in WW2 and are honored war vets. What are these traditions as well? Asian Canadians celebrate Christmas. Jews celebrate Hanukah etc. Asian Canadians participate in all kinds of Canadian culture and traditions such as skating on the Rideau Canal, or voting, or Little League.

            Now if you are complaining that they are bringing some of their own culture to Canada, how about other groups who have also done so? There are Italian restaurants, Jewish Synagogues, Islamic Mosques, etc, and many of those people also speak their native tongues. Would you force all of them to get rid of their culture and leave only the predominant Irish, Scottish, English and French influences? Or is it only the Asian/Chinese cultural influences that you find offensive? If you heard somebody speaking Italian or French, would you be as offended as you would be hearing somebody speaking Mandarin or Tagolag?

            Did you know that it was the Chinese who build the railroads in Western Canada? And for their efforts they were rewarded with The Chinese Exclusion Act. Is that one of the Canadian "traditions" that should be maintained?

            Many Asian Canadians are happy and grateful to be here, and many of their descendants are serving in the Canadian Armed Forces as well as in government, academia, and industry.

            I suspect that there is a tendency to conflate race with culture, but that most folks either don't see it, or won't admit it.

          • I think Asian Canadians are less likely to serve in the Armed Forces. The Royal Military College is working hard to recruit cadets of Asian descent to the school, but aren't being successful as they had hoped. I would, of course, tell them to focus on engineering and most of all FREE TUITION.

          • ^^^ apparently working hard..

          • Cynthia, I invite you to visit any Reserve unit in Toronto and Vancouver. You'll see a lot of Asian reserve soldiers, seamen and airmen serving in the Canadian Forces. I for one had served 6 years without going to RMC. And frankly, are those students doing Canada a favour by not going for subsidiezed education, when they can afford post-secondary education on their own or with their parent's help?

          • My Asian friend volunteered when she didn't have to (as Navy) to go to Afghanistan. She was a medic and they were short of doctors. I personally know two Asians in the military.

          • I have many people in my family who served. My father in law founded an underwater diving team to get rid of mines – which would later become the Navy Seals. My grandpa (still alive) served the British in Hongkong (on horse). And my other grandfather graduated from a prestigious air force academy. My first Asian boss was among Chinese veterans who fought side by side with Canadians in WWII to help the Chinese born and raised in Canada get the right to vote in 1947. He wasnt even allowed to become Canadian then and was not obligated to fight for Canada.

    • yep, your forefathers also did not drive the aboriginals out of their land just so you can party all day and whine about losing your job because of your inability to perform. And I know that Canadian language is english or french, which i speak very well, but what is the canadian culture that you are refering to that i am suppose to adapt?

    • The Chinese are Canada's "forefathers" too. Look up Chinese veterans of World War II who fought while denied Canadian citizenship – side by side with Canadians. Look up who built the railroad towards the last spike.

      Acceptable "culture" in Canada is a myth. Separatism is already proof of that. Regional interests are already proof of that. Difficulties in forming a majority government is already proof of that.

      I've studied Canadian literature, history, film, hockey, French, and even food…I can probably compete in Canadian trivia knowing obscure things like highway lines were invented in Canada…but after learning all of this…I can't really say there is Canadian culture. Canada's history is rife with identity crisis.

      Ultimately, if there is no "Canadian" insecurity – it's a free world to do what you want with confidence and not be concerned by what others do or don't do.

      • The ancestor argument is also somewhat shaky – if that's the key argument, First Nations folks have a lot to say.

  310. Maclean publishes another article that drew a lot of controversy. Quebec as 'the most corrupted province' a few weeks ago is a similar incident.

    This article attracted many post secondary audience, as it's been flying all around facebook and twitter. Being in the news biz, they're happy to attract this sort of attention, even if it's based on faulty evidence and poor reference.

    Where has the integrity and respect for objective journalism disappeared to? Maclean seems to be selling nothing more than controversial opinions and overused stereotypes.

    However, in the end, I guess they got what they wanted. Macleans, I dislike you.

  311. Ok, so essentially Caucasians like Alexandra are complaining because they cannot compete with Asians? That's absolutely ridiculous! Do losing politicians complain because another politician "took" their seat? Do sports teams complain when other teams out compete and defeat them?

  312. Big Deal!!!!!! Asian, White, Brown, Black….etc!!! Who cares?? We are all the same, as long as we respect each others! I went to Harvard guard school, people came from different part of the world, they are smart and they don't give-a-sh@t of your skin colors?!! Whoever wrote this article has some issues and this article is totally meaningless.

  313. Okay. I think it's time for EVERYONE to calm down. Here is what we've concluded.

    1. This article is racist.
    2. Asians should not be targeted by Macleans like this. It's racist.
    3. White flight is currently in progress.
    4. There are Asians on this board making negative generalizations about non-asians. Specifically: White, Black, Latino, European,etc.

    (see next comment)

    • (con't)

      Look. At the end of the day this is a opinionated journalistic article where the main purpose was to cause an intense reaction from those reading it. In turn, this reaction will cause people to flock to the Macleans website.

      More people will become aware of the magazine and maybe some will buy it. There you have it folks. Macleans reeled you in. Learn from this article, discuss it and move on.

      I'm just disappointed in the fact that a lot of Asians are unnecessarily targeting the non-Asians now. Please realize that you are sinking to the same racist and discriminative level as this article. Some of us are on your side. Don't target us. We study hard. Some play hard.

      We're your friends, your study buddies, your roommates and the nice people you walk past everyday on campus. Don't forget to say hi.

      Peace out.

  314. PART 1

    I've already commented earlier on my issues with the content of this article. I've decided now to attack your journalistic ability. Who wrote this?! Fresh-out-of-undergrad students? Interns? Stephanie Findlay and Nicholas Kohler, I assume you're both English majors with a minor in some other humanities module–say political science?! Because you seem to be very concerned with upholding old "systems." I can tell you're unpolished writers.

    Even in highschool, your English teachers will tell you that when writing anything for media outlet, you need to be able to support your arguments with evidence. What is this: "That Asian students work harder is a fact born out by hard data." Where's this hard data? (By the way, your sentence is awful, because you clearly don't understand how to use comparative forms properly).

    cnt'd.

  315. PART 2

    Who are these people you interviewed? Your friends? Did you attend Queens or UofT? Is that why you have all this resentment? Or did you randomly go on campus and MANIPULATE these "Asian" students into telling you what you wanted to hear? Into telling you that their parents push them and expect greatness from them? I'm pretty sure many of those students did not know you'd use their words in this context.

    The original article began with this:
    "A term used in the U.S. to talk about racial imbalance at Ivy league schools is now being whispered on Canadian campuses. "

    After Macleans pulled the article last night, we now have this edited line:
    "Worries that efforts in the U.S. to limit enrollment of Asian students in top universities may migrate to Canada."

    How sweet. You/your editor tried to dodge a bullet by changing the racist tone to a concerned one. You're WORRIED that Asians won't be accepted as fairly as they have been. But this little change won't save your integrity.

  316. PART 3
    Don't be too delighted that your article generated this much controversy. Your editor and colleagues may try to comfort you in the midst of all this criticism by saying something like, "Welcome to the world of journalism. It's about being able to stir controversy. Talk is good." Yes, a good piece of writing will provoke conversation, but believe me, this isn't the kind of attention you want as a writer. The vast majority of these comments are insulting you, and you're dragging down the reputation of the magazine as well as your own. It's a shame I didn't have English classes with either of you; I would have been that one Asian student in the class who would have outshone you academically. I would have loved to add to your resentment.

    • Whoever you are Victoria, you are AWESOME! Loved reading your comments!

  317. I don't think most people understood the article. It's not saying we should be like the Americans and start having Asian ceilings, the conclusion (found in the last paragraph of the article, where conclusions are often found): "It's unfair to change the meritocratic entry system, so all universities can do—all they should do—is encourage groups to mingle. Though it's true that universities—U of T and Waterloo included—do have diversity programs and policies for students, newer, fresher ways are needed to help pry the ethnic ghettos open so everyone hangs out together."
    It's just asking universities to take more initiative in creating dialogues and interaction between students of different ethnicity, rather than artificially changing the ethnic composition. In fact, creating an Asian ceiling wouldn't even solve the problem, groups would still just keep to themselves.

  318. I agree completely (and Toope said something along the same lines I believe). Of course I am not sure many people see that, even suggesting that the article has some validity will cause lot of readers here to think you are on "the author's side". People just don't like admitting problems I guess.

  319. Asians mainly study math and sciences, correct? If so, and if people are worried they are "taking over" rest assured they will get technical jobs like engineering, architectire, medicine etc. What they wont get is jobs in law, politics etc, which is usually better suited for those who studying history, poli sci, philosophy etc which, if my university is like the rest in Canada, are almost completely filled with white students. Thus, the whiteys will still run the country and have greater shares of power, based on the demographics of today's university.

    • The reason why Asians concentrate in fields that require hard sciences and maths is because there is less of a chance of discrimination. They know that going into law or politics is not a good option because its a white man's club and the deck is stacked against them. It isn't because they are somehow lacking in what it takes to succeed in those fields except perhaps skin color.

  320. boohoo white people crying they can't get into university because they can't get themselves to stop partying and do some work…. stop crying and try harder… i work hard for every inch of ground i gain and it isn't my fault you cant keep up… stop trying to make it sound like a tragedy…

    • Great job being racist there. "White people crying"? The article never endorsed setting artificial racial ceilings. They simply pointed out that the Amercians are doing that, but in the last paragraph the article clearly states that Canadians ought not do that since it's unfair. The article is simply saying universities should try harder to create interaction between students with different cultural backgrounds. The type of unreflective comments people like you make give us Asians a bad reputation.

      It also seems like whenever people bring up gender, sex or religion, all rational capacities go right out the window.

      • What the article is saying is that there are too many Asians in Canadian universities and that seems to be a problem because there are whites who don't like it. That's it. The more perceptive readers aren't fooled.

  321. this post is a nice example of a smart person who lacks social skills. Lighten up jt! You're frightening the kids!

  322. next up: too many blacks in NBA, too many hungry people in restaurants……

    • and also too many whites complaining about everything else

  323. I am Chinese immigrants whom have been here for 8 years.
    I graduated from one of the best universities in China.
    I have been worked as elctronics engineer for 7 years in China and 5 years in Canada.
    As an immigrant, I have to performance better than average employee to keep my job. Office politics is everywhere.
    I can see the R&D industry in Canada is fading (at least in electronics field). Let me tell you why. In China, my colleagues and me sometimes work much more harder than here while the salary cost is lower than here (Also, there are much more engineers there).
    In R&D field, you have to face the competition from all over the world,
    it is like a war. You can not be lazy while dream of success, it will never happen.
    Back to this topic. If you wants to go to top engineering university, you have to be smart and study hard no motter which race you are.
    University is supposed to give the opportunity to those who study hard and have more intelligence.

  324. coming from macleans… this is sad sad article to ruffle a few feathers…
    its an insulting and embarrassing piece…

    1) to asian – having no social skills
    2) to caucasians – to being lazy and partying all the time
    3) to the canadian culture – I thought we were above this racism/ racist remarks to our own people.
    (arent we the best place to live on this planet?)

    so, what if you're mixed race like me?
    and are both asian & caucasian… etc…
    then what ???

    • It's also an embarassment to private school alumni. Makes public school people think we're all a bunch of spoiled brats (or I guess lazy spoiled brats if white and studious spoiled brats of Asian). Funny thing? Before I read on, I assumed that Rachel and Alexandra were CBCs (Canadian born Chinese) complaining about FOBBY schools and being forced to go to university for hard sciences degrees (I had read the Toronto Star article about Asian kids and university before coming here).

  325. David Naylor of U of T already said this is a non-issue. So it is. Quoting students who are not interested in going to U of T because it's "too Asian" obviously shows that those students have racist biases themselves, and does not help this situation in the least. It's like quoting religious people who have not read Harry Potter about how the book series is evil – these students don't know what they're talking about because they haven't experienced it.

    Publishers hold great influence on public opinion and should use this power responsibly. Fanning race-bias like in this article stirs up resentment and conflict where there was none previously. Why are you doing this?

    U of T, for example, was an utterly thriving multicultural community, which any student will tell you who has attended. I hope this is taken into consideration by the editors of this magazine.

  326. Question: What if some "white washed" Asian student at Havergal told the two profiled in this piece that U of T (or at least, certain programs) was too FOBBY and they were only repeating what that girl said? The U of T being "FOBBY" has been an issue for many Jook Sing/Banana types for years – even when *I* was in high school in the mid-late 90s.

  327. The Media and in this case Macleans just stirring the pot. The world would be better off without this type of hype. That's why in 54 years I have yet to buy a copy of their rag.

  328. Still laughing at the "Canadian" mom.

    If your son is too thick to make it into an arts program at a giant university, lady…

  329. This only perpetuates separatist views. This article is not based on statistics or real facts. It's based on the opinion of a 17, possibly 18 year old girl. Last time I checked, Facebook-esque opinions didn't count as journalism. I don't understand how anyone at Macleans thought that this would be good PR for this tabloid-news magazine. What shall Canadians look forward to next? Britney Spears on the cover? The discovery of Big Foot's illegitimate son? Please, enlighten me!

    University is an institution for knowledge acquisition and development of skill. Keep your racist views out of it.

  330. Don't forget, you "White" Canadians are IMMIGRANTS too. Unless you're Aboriginal, I don't think you can tell someone to stop immigrating to Canada since you "White" Canadians did it first. At the first sight of competition, you go and make racist remarks? C'mon Canada, you know better than that.

  331. Hey Niner… as I mentioned, there were many times in my life where I've had more Asian friends than white friends, so I am quite in tune with Asian culture, heritage, and history in Canada. I'm very aware of the atrocities that were committed against early Asian immigrants to Canada… especially those that worked on the railways out west. It's a sad history indeed, and while it should not be forgotten, I hardly think it can be used as an argument for them to stay isolated in this day and age, especially in a city as multicultural as in Toronto. Almost everyone I know has absolutely no problem with Asian people as for the most part they are polite, clean, hard working and intelligent people. I think these are great qualities, but I also think that it's important for them to step outside their comfort zones and interact more with other people. After all, there were so rather unpleasant things that the Canadian government did towards Europeans of Ukrainian descent after WWII, so technically they could argue that they should stick together and be anti-social. History is just that… History… and while it should never be forgotten, lingering on the past only festers divergence and contempt. It's important that younger generations buck the trends of the old in the interest of peace and freedom.

  332. How should this article even been approved to be published? It just looks like a negative example in 1st year university sociology course. It's fair to choose to be working hard, it's also fair to choose to have more fun in college life, all depending on the student. An Asian student, choose to go to UofT and start a academic-focused life and get good marks, and then graduate, go to work, build the country, pay the tax. What's wrong with that?
    I doubt if the author is just jealous with academic performance of Asian students in university or may even be racist, that's dangerous.
    Finally, Bill Gates said: “Be nice to nerds. Chances are you'll end up working for one.” （1955）

  333. The article reflects a deep seated attitude of some Canadians. We are tolerant so long as you Asians remain the Minority. Canada is predominately white but you will never see the term “Too White” being used, we like to maintain it this way.

    Macleans might as well write an article explaining why the principles of Aryan Nation should be adopted into main stream society.

    • Hey dude, before you say that sh*t, be sure you are capable of getting a 70 on an IQ test and calculating 4*6 without using a calculator ok? being "white" has just come to mean that dumb and racist. this is all you guys got. dont't hate if you are scared to compete already dude?

      • People think it is crazy and racist to have white people benifit from an affermative action type set up. But this has been going on for a long time, if white people are now the visible minority then they should be getting some special treatment.

        He was being facetious, and what he said rings true. Many white Canadians probably really do feel that way although they never express it outright. It manifests in their actions and also this article, which has been changed to remove that particularly nasty racist undertone.

        • White affirmative action? Of course it exists in Canada. This is what white anglophones keep pushing for in Quebec.

    • The attitude of U of T being "too Asian" is often shared by some Asians (who grew up here). Except them saying that U of T (or Waterloo) being "too FOBBY" is pretty much like an uber-PC white person saying Western is "too white."

  335. Well, if the student (regardless of whether they are white, asian, black ect) works hard to achieve well to gain a position in a prominant university then I dont understand why universities would be upset about the proportion of "asians" in… their university. In America and all other Western society, they talk about rights and freedom but clearly, in this case, the realm of university which is meant to promote academia, encourage competition, and to establish social acceptance and tolerance is demonstrating a backward development in modern society.
    The issue here is that Asians are being labelled "smart, brainy, nerdy" by white people and it is these "white" students who are essentially discriminating against themselves by allowing such dogma and comments to be made. Their solution: restrict university entry to Asians, blacks, and minorities simply beacuse of a supposed superiority stemming from social stupidity and lack of ethics towards good education.
    In particular, many universities are saying that it's Asian's fault for not being part of the university community, which is affecting the white students, and that the simple fact that Asians are in a "white" society or university should mean that everyone (all students regardless of race, colour or gender) should conform to the standard "white university student" of sex, drugs, and party. This is outrageous as it is clear that students develop their own attitude towards universiety and life. White students should take care of their own learning and education instead of pointing fingers and blaming Asians for fostering a culture of intense academia and competition.
    I can see why some "white" student's parents are not willing to support their child – to do so would only affirm and intensify the cultural difference and accusations, and reinforce white supremacy.
    By the way, I have no problem with any students regardless of race, colour, gender, sexuality ect. I am personally for social equality and opportunities, and will always argue in favour of minorities who have to bear discrimination and the brute force of the general majority.

  336. Confucius says: Pickle a cucumber and it turns from bitter to sour.

  337. Regardless of the cultural and ethnic backgrounds, only the ones who work hard will do good academically. Caucasian students should stop drinking and partying too much and put more time on study. I had caucasian group mates, who I did projects with. They worked hard and they were doing very good. I think the ones, who are blaming asian students for taking up spots are not really looking at the mirror and finding the problems withing themselves (wasting too much time in non-academic activities).

  338. admittedly the article is poorly written, but the underlying issue here is not really one of race….If the group they were talking about were not "asians", but rather only children, for example, that only hung out together and didnt socially interact with other people with siblings, it would be the same problem.

    Knee-jerk reactions and comparing this article with the KKK and cross burning is clearly an extremely illogical comparison….
    Macleans may have f*cked up here, but I dont think article is in any way representative of what Canadians feel about race. I myself am of indian descent, and even though i was born here, have not felt any ill will towards me whatsoever.
    In no way is the government, canadian schools, or the general public condoning racist admissions policy…

    by the way, for those of us from toronto: guess who guest-edited this issue?

    ROB FORD. makes more sense now eh

    • I can feel that you were sincere about what you wrote. I was once like you too when I was young but the reality is very different. If you are not white, you will be disadvantaged wherever you go and whatever you do. When you start to find your first professional job, you will know what I mean.

    • Unless i'm missing something, this article is about race…the headline says "Too Asian?"

    • You have a lot to learn then. Just peruse these comments and you'll understand how many white Canadians view minorities, and in particular which minorities. Sometimes racism is blatant, such as incidences of Asian Canadian anglers being attacked or cross burning, other times it is more subtle, such as this article. Nothing can be gained by denying that racism doesn't exist except to appease some white people. Ask yourself honestly what you have to gain by denying that racism exists.

  339. I am a third year Clarinet Performance student at McGill University . I am also half Asian (Filipino in fact, more often than not a forgotten nationality in the "Asian" category, same with south and western Asian e.g. the Indian subcontinent and the middle east, we are all Asian).
    I think it is worth to mention that the pressure to succeed and get a+'s in school came from my non-Asian parent, whenever i would bring home a 98, I would usually get a reply of "where is the other 2%?". My Asian parent was definitely the more laid back, do what makes you happy and remember to have fun type of parent.
    I'd also like to comment on the ignorance of people who feel entitled to say things like "you took my kid's spot in university", are people so closed minded that they feel right to criticize people who have earned their right to pursue a degree at a particular university?
    It makes me mad and more so sad that race and discrimination play a part in discussions related to post-secondary education. White SHOULD NOT be synonymous to lazy. complacent and self-entitled, nor does Asian to "all work and no play"
    I have a 4.0 GPA, I am also the president of my Student Association, I work a part time, I practice and rehearse music on a daily basis AND i have a loyal, DIVERSE and beautiful group of friends that I party with ALL THE TIME.
    There are many more like me that do not associate a certain behaviour with the colour of my skin nor use race as a title deed for a privilege. I work hard for myself and my dreams, NOT because I am asian.

    I commend this writer for producing this article, it shines light into an issue we rarely bring forward in a serious manner.

  340. So what again is Canadian culture? I have lived in Canada for over 35 years and still not sure what it means. Play

    hockey? Eat breakfast at Tim Hortons? Call each other hosers? Coo roo coo coo coo coo coo coo! speak French?

    Ha! All English Canada would scoff at that! Or am I to take the Opening Ceremony of the Olympics as a clue? Maybe it

    is time we all became Aboriginal.

    White students shouldn’t worry about the small numbers of Asians competing with you in the universities or the job

    market. They are at least CANADIANS for the most part, and want to see Canada strong in the world. Worry about

    the 2 billion Indians and Asians living outside of Canada. They are working even harder and are more driven than you

    can imagine. They are competing with other Asians all the time! They could give a rats ass if you can’t keep up, and

    would scoff at your weakness.

    As for Asian students who don’t speak Engrish? How are the white students losing to them? Shouldn’t natural born

    speakers of English have an overwhelming advantage? Like abled bodied athletes in the disabled games. You should be

    on top in every category.

    And Asians who don’t integrate in school life will suffer after they graduate. They will have a horrible time fitting into the

    cultures when they go overseas to do business in China or India. They just won’t understand those foreign cultures if they

    don’t assimilate into Canada.

    Even if they stay in Canada, they will have troubles in the workplace because isn’t it obvious they are having terrible

    times in university? Seems they are not doing well there

    • They might as well write an article about how the NBA is to black next time…..

    • If that's what you really think of Canadian culture, you should go back to where you came from. What is any culture? What is Swiss culture, "Skiing on the Alps," "making chocolate," "making time pieces?" If you're just on this forum to make fun of Canada, go home. Canadian culture is about a proud national identity, which clearly you don't have. We are an established country, not a work in progress. Small numbers??? Chinese population anywhere is not in small numbers. And PS, after 35 years you would think you would speak english properly.

  341. It is not racism to discuss issues. My daughter did choose to go to a more ethnically diverse university rather than UofW. Personally I think it is a shame that Canadian Universities are geared only to marks. It creates a mind think and sub culture which supports itself and pushes out more well rounded people. The business word has many examples of great out of the box thinkers that are very innovative and successful and yet did not have the best marks.

  342. when i read this article i really thought that Canada has gone backwards in their advancement towards being an equal and non-prejudiced country… but then i read the comments… and i feel better :)

  343. Articles like these are the reason why Maclean no longer has any reputation. Sounds like a desperate attempt at attention to what used to be a great magazine.

  344. Look at the subtitle of the article, which is: 'Worries that efforts in the U.S. to limit enrollment of Asian students in top universities may migrate to Canada'

    Now you bet what's behind the intent of the authors of this article! To me it looks like they should have made it even clearer that they 'Hope that efforts in the U.S. to limit enrollment of Asian students in top universities may migrate to Canada' !!!

    • That was the original intent to the article, but they've since changed it.

  345. If we end up with an economic/professional/political elite of Asian descent in this country maybe it's because that is a fair and just outcome and it's the way it should be.

    This is a great country to live in because, by and large, you get what's coming to you. Not always but mostly. You study hard, work hard, you're diligent and you do better. If you want to waste your time drinking, if you don't study as hard, if you don't work as hard, if you're less diligent then you don't do as well. What could be more just or fair?

    This article has exactly zero to do with race and exactly everything to do with culture and personal behaviour. So some spoiled rich kids are peeved because they have to compete? BOO HOO. Cry me a river.

    BTW I'm not Asian.

    • And Chinese kids who have parents that pay for them to live and learn over here aren't spoiled rich kids?

      • This is pretty interesting question to answer. Chinese is just a broad name of the people who are from China, Hong Kong SAR, Taiwan, Singapore, Malaysia,……….. . Not all the Chinese families are rich and pay everything for their kids. If you want to know more, let me tell you some numbers. In mainland China, >90% of the GDP are owned by 3% of their population. It means that 97% of the people in China are either poor or extremely poor. In the rest of the aforementioned countries, the people are not poor or rich.

      • The only benefit of this article is to give us a chance to know more about the asian culture from different people on this forum. We will discover that the things that we know about Asia is very little, and that we were misled by the government and the medias.

      • What is wrong with having parents providing for your education? Isn't that what parents are supposed to do?

        • I provided for my own education. Parents can be expected to only do so much. They have to provide for their own retirement. And when someone reaches the age of 18 they are adults. They may not have the life experience of someone older but their minds have all the machinery of an adult mind plus they have advantages older people have lost like energy, optimism and creativity. Personally I've had enough of 30 year old teenagers still depending on mommy and daddy.

  346. So you prefer dicks then

  347. This article though can't be concluded as racism, but the writer has really DAD judgment. Why we have to differentiate asian from Canadian when encouraging harmony within the community. Many of those students are Canadian born or being Canadian already. Are a group of Canadian taking away the opporunities from another Group of Canadian????? Now I know why Quebec want to seperate….BAD TASTE this writer!!!!!!

  348. *Correction* I meant that racism is NO LONGER systemic and government-enforced. Once can look at things in our past like the Head Tax, the Continuous Journey laws, the Komogata Maru incident, or the Internment of Canadians of Japanese descent during world war 2. Not to mention turning away Jewish refugees during WW2. Or Residential schools! The last once closed in 1996. Shocking eh…. If you even know about the things I'm referring to.

    If you're truly Canadian – you ought to know about the history of your country. It is a constant surprise to me that such things are considered shocking when they were covered in my History class at UWO. I sit side by side by Caucasian Canadians, who are all shocked by the institutionalized racism of our class. But they may never realize that sitting next to them is someone who is a legacy of that racism.

  349. 1,Most Chinese kids are intelligence,Yes,Because their parents are smart.. they came to Canada all selected by Canada immigration department agency. their parents all got at least 4 year university education in China! In china ,20 year ago,less than 1%% high school student can go to university to study!
    2，We push our Kid study and study,it is true. Canadian people, Please open your eyes!Look at China ,especially east south mainland China, there are so crazy, education ,technology ,factories ——- only 10 years , when north American people are sleeping, my home country hometown is developed at top top speed，now busy than NYC!!!
    3，most Chinese kids are Canadian,they are belong to this great country–Canada which is their parents choiced for them about 10 years ago. they will hard study and hard work for this country,pay tax ,lead technology,make this country –Canada more competitive in the world!!

    • Please don't write about how "intelligence" Chinese people are if you can't even formulate a sentence in English. If China is so over developed, what do you think is going to happen to Canada?

      • sorry ,I am English so bad. I am a specialist，appraiser in Chinese antique and art of work area! only focus Chinese arts . Do not need too much English!

        • Exactly the problem! I don't mind chinese people moving here, but when they believe that they "don't need to learn English," it's really frustrating! I would never move to a different country and assume that I didn't need to bother learning the native language and culture. Why on earth would I move there if I was planning to only maintain my own language and culture?

          • Well, Jeff, that's the sad part. People who hardly know English do better in our universities than our born and bred kids. Maybe it is not the fault of the Chinese that they take our spots. It is our fault that our kids don't measure up.

          • Maybe our kids don't measure up because their spots in schools are being sold to rich foreigners. The more people wanting to get into Canadian University, the higher the tuition gets. This issue doesn't even have to be about "Asians," there should be a limit on the number of international students being allowed to take space in Canadian Universities.

          • agree it . but this situation do not last long.now ,All foreigner Chinese international students will go to USA,.they are not come to Canada any more! Do not too worry!!

            US universities should be worry!!!

          • What do you mean by "their" spots? Were these spots promised to them by somebody?

          • Well, you would think that if someone is born in Canada, lives as a Canadian, yes, that they should be given priority over someone from different country for a Canadian university education. I understand that you are trying to skew my words, and make it sound like I'm saying "us" (white) against "them" (non-white), and that is because that is the only way you can make me sound wrong. If (white) people from England were flooding our universities, I would be taking the same stance. Lets educate our own before we worry about other people from other countries.

          • It's too bad Canada is trying to base its political ideal on "fairness" and "anti-racism". This is why Asians came to Canada in the first place, otherwise they would just go somewhere else. On a political level, Canada is doing the right thing, otherwise all the so-called "intelligent" people would go elsewhere, leaving Canada a country with only so-called "drunks and party animals and underachievers". Jeff, if you knew anything about politics and the need for talented individuals to drive this country, you wouldn't advertise your idea of "divine right"

          • open your mind! I work in antiques and arts area ,paid tax to Canada.
            I think I am good at and have some talent in arts,so I am focus this area.
            if I work in Canada some restaurants or work in some Canadian company being a worker, it is waste my talent!!!
            also.my family member is a IT specialist work in the bay street!
            We are all love Canada.

      • sorry ,my English so bad. I am a specialist ——-an appraiser in Chinese antique and art of work area! only focus Chinese arts . Do not need too much English! I will learn more!!

  350. It has nothing to do with the race of those adimted to universtiy and everything to do with culture. Many of the “Caucasian” kids are encouraged by parents to excell in hockey. Many of the kids from other cultures – not just Asian – are encouraged to dream about doing well in school rather than dreaming of becoming the next Don Cherry. The “Caucasian” kids are smart enough to get into any university they please but their parents are not “smart” enough to educate them to set the right priorities.

  351. Your ancestor also got off the boat here and start taking over land from the original owner…i don't know but something tells me thats social injustice as well

  352. I am horrified by the racist message of this article. Instead of suggesting to find a way to break the cultural obstacles, it actually implicitly advocates a discriminatory admission policy that punishes students who work hard. Instead of blaming the Asian students and their families, try to find ways to encourage other ethnic groups to measure up and compete. Advocating a lower standard of excellency is never the answer! Shame on you, Maclean!

  353. I am a vet. I have been overseas and can say without question that Canada is still a white mans Army. I think there should be a mandatory 2 year service to gain citizenship here, like they have in so many other countries.

  354. Also those pictures on the website you speak of are there to promote the armed forces, they are not representative of the military at all. It's called propaganda. But glad you have reliable sources for your information…sigh

    • The reliable source of information is me. I've served in the Armed Forces reserves. You are right, it is still a white man's army, but there are many visible minorities. Show some respect and honor.

  355. To the Authors: Just so we're clear, tacking a question mark onto the title of this piece doesn't then allow you to claim that you're merely posing a question for debate, nor does it absolve you of the ensuing offence that that sort of inflamatory rhetoric causes.

    As for your ultimate claim that “newer, fresher ways are needed to help pry the ethnic ghettos open so everyone hangs out together,” two thoughts: First, why is it that only non-white social circles ever get termed “ethnic ghettos,” as though any of the white/Western European ethnicities are somehow not also ethnicities in their own right? Second, the overall tone of the article suggests that you think that the forces behind the formation of these “ethnic ghettos” are all pull, and no push. You might wish to re-examine that premise a little more closely.

  356. Has anybody complian there is few white people in NBA?
    NO. People accept it. People love it.

    So why say university is "TOO ASIAN"?

    The Canadian Government talked about "Diversity". Where is it? Does the author of this article represent a group of people who feel they own the high priority in this country? Those ASIAN people who become to canadian citizen is still being called "ASIAN"? NOT CANADIAN? SO Why needs to become to Canadian?

    Remeber what is the real Canadian History! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Canada

    Competition is everywhere. BE RESPECT!

  357. It's a little sad to see so many commenters outraged by the racism in the article, turning around and making incredibly racist statements themselves. Railing against Asians being characterized as anti-social bookworms and overachievers and then writing something about lazy, drunken "white" slackers.

    Please don't assume all "whites" share the attitudes and opinions expressed in this article. Afterall, there are plenty of Asians who hold extremely racist, ignorant and hateful views of non-Asians, yet I'm sure you would not appreciate the assumption that you share their opinions just because you share their culture or race.

    • The problem is that these supposedly racist Asians do not hold any power in Canadian society whereas racist whites do.

      • Get a clue. It's not racist to be concerned about preserving our country's language and culture, and the education of CANADIANS. No one on here is saying racist comments about Asians, there is no mention of skin colour or anything – it is an immigration issue.

        • are u serious, no mention of skin? just because they didnt use the word "yellow" doesnt mean there was no mention of racism. I dictionary.com'd it for you

          racism: "a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others."

          Also, there is no preserving "Canadian" culture. Canadian culture is not WHITE culture, it is multiculture. By selecting cultures to preserve and assimilate, you are destroying Canadian culture.

        • So Asians are destroying your country's language and culture? No problem with that. Why does Canada keep admitting Asian immigrants then?

  358. 25 years ago, I was finishing high school and the mix of people heading to university did look different to now, so no great surprise that at the figures now reported in the article. I knew some of the few Asian kids in my school back then, and many were from ambitious and hard working families wishing their kids to excell. I could identify with them, as my parents only arrived in 1952 and were less visibly, but still, outsiders. I can recall the smugness of multi-generation Canadian offspring bosting their plans to follow the university paths of their families as a given. How sad for the party-bound, hand-me-a-degree-on-a-platter crowd to have to compete for a spot. I opted for a college, but I could clearly see the nonserious party crowd vanish in the second term, as they didn't pass required classes. Maybe with stiff competition, there won't be spots wasted on students that don't want to study hard.

  359. This article is a ham-handed, one-dimensional report of so-called "Asian" universities that seems to be primarily informed by stereotypes. The author basically spends 3 pages implying that the "Asian phenomenon" is a bad thing and that Canadian universities ought to do something about limiting Asian enrollment, then finally backpedals in the last paragraph with the trite comment that Canadian universities ought to do something to encourage diversity. Please, it's better to write nothing at all than to write an article this shoddy.

    If you're going to be basing an article on anecdotes, I'll give you one:

    As a Chinese-Canadian, born in Canada, I have nothing against Caucasians (in fact, I'm married to one). I was the editor of the high-school newspaper at my predominantly Caucasian high school. I went to Trinity College at UofT, and I can tell you that at least in the groups I hung out with, East Asians, Caucasians, Jews, Indians and other ethnicities actively interacted with each other. Living in a dorm in my first year was the most multicultural experience I've ever had in my life. I studied English Literature and minored in French, volunteered at a local Toronto resource center for Native Women, and actively participated in film festivals, poetry readings, and university clubs.
    So take that, stereotypes!

    While there were Asians who stuck to their "Asian bubble", that certainly wasn't the case throughout the whole school. Nor were the Caucasians in my social circle the ignorant xenophobes this article portrays them to be.

    And by the way, did the authors consider at all that a 17-year old kid whose main goal is to party in university might not be the best source for nuanced racial commentary? The authors also seem to be taking her part in that they consider partying and drinking a measure of a person's social skills, and imply that someone who studies hard doesn't measure up on the EQ. Hello? Does nobody see the fallacy there?

  360. To those who want to stop immigrating, ask yourself where your pension comes from when you retire?

    Want to keep the same lifestyle and living standards with Americans? then work 10 times harder…

    • Is it all about money?

  361. As Asia or some asian countries are starting to have more significiant influence to the world, some powerful nations also worry about the loss of world impact in the last few years. From the recent spy comment from Richard Fadden (CSIS) to the Maclean's article, it is not hard to see their intention to offend China and the Chinese. Once they are asked for further evidences of their claims, they always say nothing. In the recent incident of the masked man who got onboard on a AC flight from HK to YVR, the lawyer who represents the masked man claims that 3 Chinese Canadian media are controlled by the Chinese government. One media is actually a Taiwanese media who is always against the Chinese government. How ridiculous and ignorance the lawyer is. All these incidents indicate that our government, medias and certain people are afraid of the citizens from one fast growing country will take over their power in one day, and therefore they keep making some untrue comments against them. Sadly, even the claims are obviously were the lies, no one from the government was responsible for that. Their foolish actions just ruin our good reputation in the world that Canada are kind and very unlikely to create chaos.

  362. We don't want to be the second CNN and US government, in which they are well-known as one of the most ignorance and biased medias on the planet, and the most terrible government in the world. Canada is a multi-cultual country which should accept and learn different cultures rather than rejecting them. There are only benefits but no harm to accept different people and different cultures.

  363. The only issue that I can see from this is that people who come here just for school are limiting domestic enrollment. They are taking up the spot that could have been for a student who will remain in Canada forever. Many people choose to come here just for school and leave. But of course on the flip side, many come here thinking they will leave, but then choose to stay instead and end up contributing a great deal to our society. I think the only issue is that of retaining top talent. Maybe more universities are needed? i especially think that Toronto needs another University, or a great expansion of current ones so that both foreign and domestic student can be accomodated. Just my opinion. That would lead to a short term increase in governemnt spending, but i think it could pay off. Just my opinion…

  364. The term asian used here is in reference to oriental asia. Is it completely politically correct? No, but thats not the point of university. I am in engineering at the UofC where you can pretty much split the demographic in thirds of white, brown and asian. Who are brown people? Well, north africa, middle east, india are generally all included. Is this PC? no, but that is a label that the university generation has concocted to represent them, and nobody has a problem. People understand that when you say asian (as a ethnicity), it refers to orientals, mainly chinese/korean/japanese. The alternative is oriental (which I never hear anymore) or… yellow… and honestly, with the self created terms of banana and egg to refer to the yellowness and whiteness on the outside and inside of an individual, the asians aren't shying away from this one either.

    This isn't ignorance, it is ignorant to assume that this isn't the way things are.

  365. It is an issue of nothing but skin color, but many people are too afraid to admit it. They have to dress it up as something else, anything but old fashioned racism.

  366. How do you know if it was Asians who broke into your home?

    Well, the DVD, TV and wireless equipment is missing and most important your kid's homework is done!

    • Doesn't make sense, they would not steal your wireless equipment, they will just hack into it and use it without you knowing lol, get your facts straight

  367. It is not up to the universities to determine who will be successful, it is up to the individual to do so. Some of the arguments about soft skills etc being a factor in university admissions are just a smokescreen to keep out undesirable groups. This has been done at American universities historically, first with the Jews, and now with Asians.

  368. If we changed the title to “Too black”, “Too white”, “Too Jewish”, what the feeling of those peoples? What is the reaction going to be?

    • Exactly Ellen, truth be told, they only pick on Asians because Asians in general have less tendency to retaliate. That plus jealousy results in this piece of horse dung of an article.

  369. it is true becasue in my old high school the eastern and southern asians were the highest achievers academically, which they worked hard to get there, however most that i know and by most i mean 95% they do not mingle with other students they dont have "fun" or anything they do there schooling go home study coem back do the same thing. Noone is saying that it is exactly a problem tahts their choice they can do wat they want, but to other students who arent like that it alienates them a bit, jsut becasue a student wants to have some fun doesnt mean they want to drink and party all day and night they want to do both which is exactly what i do

    • have you personally stalked all of them to make sure they are all study no play? how do you know you're not the socially awkward one? because you drink and party and waste your life away like that? How do you know they don't have white friends outside of what you see? apologies for not being dumb enough to make you feel welcomed.

  370. Oh no! There are too many universities to choose from! Something for everyone? NO! Let's make them all the same. Canada has universities as diverse as its population. We should all be grateful that we have the options to choose our paths, whether they be to party or to study or to lead balanced lives. There is something for everyone, so everyone relax and accept the differences.

  371. The school I went to (class of '73) now places a high priority on community service.

    That's one way to take the focus away from study.

  372. what a horrible article…shame on your mclean's and their advertisers for printing this. what a load of crap.

  374. The whole article gave me a good laugh. The title is so misleading. "Worries that efforts in the U.S. to limit enrollment of Asian students in top universities may migrate to Canada". Really? Are you really trying to convey the message that you are "worrying" about limiting Asians, or are you trying to say we SHOULD be limiting Asians? The whole article sounds like it conveys the contradictory.

    Instead of putting smart kids in universities, let's focus on building an university that is fun! Btw that's called a college.

  375. I think it is completely different if a person is from that country, in which case it's a non-issue, or from abroad. In the UK they prioritise chinese applicants because they can charge them more. I'm against this because these applicants are rich, there are plenty of poor and homeless people in china and very few who can buy a house, let alone study abroad with the exchange rate against them. They're doing poor people in the UK out of an education, people who have no choice to go elsewhere because they don't have the money to 'go shopping' for their education. Rich UK kids still get in. I want to see the government reserve a certain percentage of places for the poorest students, in fact the bottom 50% or 40% of earners, whose children are about 5% or something of students. I don't mind the chinese, they're ace, i mind the way neither the government nor the elite universities see addressing the social mobility gap or educating those of the population who could only study at a UK university as their problem. And there are plenty of poor british chinese, there would have been more if we had given the hongkongese the passports they were entitled to, and they count as poor british, in my opinion. I was really shocked by the tiny number (5, of whom 2 were the children of rich parents with different than average politics) of pupils i met at my university had been to state school. There were more pupils over 40 than from state schools.

  376. I also went to UofT Engineering, I am a non-'Asian' though of Sri Lankan background. I agree with most points of your post save for the mention that a large number of faculty don't speak 'proper' English. How would the univerisity/faculty go about addressing this issue? I have a Canadian accent when speaking English, but I am able to comprehend most others regardless of their accent, albeit it when it is very thick. I believe being able to comprehend others with a different accent is very subjective. It would be completely rascist for the faculty to state that those whom don't speak in a Canadian accent, wouldn't be able to join the faculty. However, I do agree that in lectures/tutorials/labs that faculty members should never address the audience in a language other than English. FWIW, I never witnessed this outside of personal conversations that faculty members were having with students outside of the classroom.

  377. In the next 10 years,the rich Chinese kids do not interesting in Canada universities anymore.Before they come here to study ,because US's visa very hard to get ,now changed,.Chinese rich kids will all go to US ..

    Canada develop too slow!!

    • china is much poor than any other countries. that is why chinese doesn't like to go back to their county
      Free Tibet

      • Do you think what you wrote actually make sense? Free Tibet? Wrong place to troll…

      • How old are you?
        Do you know the Tibet history?

        50 years ago,there were all slavers,expect the monk s.

  378. American schools discriminate against non whites because the mexicans are taking over their jobs and the asian are taking over their schools AHAHAHHAAHHA

  379. I also see it in U of T engineering….

    As a student at U of T, this article rings true in every aspect. Of course I have no problem with it, i'm not complaining. This article does speak the truth though. Of course it does not apply to everyone, nothing can ever apply to everyone, but it does exist. In residence, some international students do try and get involved, experience life in Toronto. Some of them are my good friends. However, others when you are being polite and saying hi to them, they IGNORE you and walk away, to their groups or friends…preceding to converse in some language. Like you come halfway around the world and you don't want to even say hi to your neighbour??

    Yes, the workload is also intense, for every hour I procrastinate or sleep, I fall behind more in classes. You need all the time in the world to understand the course material fully. You just need to find the balance in your life. Some choose to study non-stop, you have to in order to do better then 70%. The only way you can get through university is by doing what you love, so I also see first hand the international students who are pressured into engineering, but absolutely hate it, so they do badly.

    So yes, this article does talk about key ideas on what is really happening. NOBODY is complaining about being overrun by asians. Why would we? Toronto is a melting pot of cultures. This article does speak of the truth, and to all the people that automatically bash the article for racism and being prejudice, you need to remember that EVERY article written is a generalization. Of course they don't mean every single asian is exactly like this, no article can ever speak for an entire group of people. Take my word as a university student who sees the article's main idea occur everyday when I go to school, and don't label it as being racist, because there is a basis for every valid argument.

    • My parents, grandparents and older relatives came from Italy just after WW2 as impoverished, semi literate peasants. I I am a prosperous, university educated professional as is my sister and all our Canuck born cousins. None of us is "Italian", all of us adopted the dominant Anglo culture and married non Italians. My wife is Chinese.

      "Melting pot" is exactly the way I see it. IMO, Toronto and I think Canada, are not and have never been "multicultural" (ie cultures existing in separate silos) because the facts on the ground dictate that if you want to make it here you have to adopt the dominant language and culture. This dominant culture changes over time and incorporates elements of other ways of thinking and ways of life.

      There may be some self segregation in school but the world outside is different. In the world outside of school self segregation will not work. You can either swim in the small pond made up of your own ethnic group, in which case you limit your own prospects, or you can swim in the much wider ocean of mainstream society in which case your opportunities in life are much broader.

  380. Hard-work should not be an issue, everyone should be willing to put effort in their studies. However, it is not true that only effort is the sheer cause of Asian students getting higher grades. There is something that no none is willing to admit, some kind of academic dishonesty on mass scale.

    Part of the Asian success is the fact that these students work collectively, which includes storing and sharing of worked out assignments and exams. That way extensive data bases are formed, which are then either passed from one generation to another. Such data with worked out examples can be found on many Asian websites, which are hard to be checked. At this very moment, it is possible that Asian students have "cracked" course-specific information for the majority of North American universities.

    When such course-specific information is combined with hard work, then an unjust situation arises in which Asian students have unfair advantage. It is not that they are smarter, or perhaps not even more hard-working – what matters is that they have access to vital information. This is one of the reasons why most scholarships (and jobs later) end up in hands of Asian students. At the same time, other (less organized) groups are slowly pushed out from the academic and top-job scene. That way, the future is artificially changed – not the most intelligent and most hard-working are winning, but perhaps the ones lacking academic honesty.

    As long as universities do not accept this sad side of the truth, there will be no fair system. Because it is impossible to withdraw data that has already been made available for Asian students, universities should take counter-measures by making assignment and exam data bases available to everyone. Of course, this would make it harder for the professors because each term they would need to assign new problems and write new exams – but isn't that part of their job, what they are paid for? I do not see any other way to smooth out the present injustice. Once that everyone has access to the same vital information,only personal talent, effort and persistence would make a difference.

    • I'm an Asian at an Asian school studying an Asian program. And yes, my parents pushed me to do this, and yes, I had a scholarship. I never heard of those massive databases until you brought it up. You are grasping at straws because you are afraid that a non-white group is punching above its weight and doesn't need those so-called quotas to get ahead.

      • Dear Ethan, hats off to you. I really do not care who gets the success as long as it is on individual base. However, I did not grasp on straws or make up a fairy tale, this does happen. Perhaps not in your case but in many other cases it does happen, unfortunately. If you had my experience, you would know what I am saying. Wish you all the best.

        • I've been reading a lot of your comments (assuming all those "concerned" people are you) and it appears that you secretly believe the same old "Chinese are taking over the world" BS, which is no different than the "Jews are taking over the world" BS that was prevalent in…oh…Germany in 1933.

          I have decided that when I settle down, I will be taking firearms training and getting a gun. I need an insurance policy if any anti-Chinese Kristallnacht occurs in Canada.

          • I posted three comments so far, this is the fourth, so I cannot be all the "concerned" people who posted on this website. I am so sorry that you got the wrong impression. Please note that I have friends from all over the world, from different countries, of different race and religion. You need not remind me what was going on in Europe between the two wars because my grandfather disappeared in one of the concentration camps in 1941. Hopefully, such things will never happen again. I am really saddened over the last part of your answer; as an educated person you should know better. We may disagree or misunderstand each other, but we should be able to keep it on civilized level.

            However, there is really something wrong going on – perhaps not where you are – but at many places it does happen. Just one instance is that a person from China with PhD degree once explicitly said during one dinner that if he had wished, he could find worked out samples for graduate studies exams at any North American university. My other experience also shows that unfortunately, there is truth to this.

            For sure, this is not the only factor of success, because any success requires lots of work and effort, and I very much apologize to all the hard-working individuals whom my original posting may have offended. Perhaps I should have chosen my words better, but also, I cannot deny something and say it does not exist when it does. I am really sorry for all the bad feelings. I will not post any more on this topic.

    • So you have never seen a non-Asian cheat? That's sad.

  381. April,
    u r 100% correct !!!
    "Let each choose his or her own path, regardless of their ethnicity. " !!!

  382. I'm in my fourth year in Science at the University of Waterloo, and I'm a white Canadian girl from northern Ontario – where there isn't the cultural diversity there is closer to Toronto. Yes, there is great cultural diversity at Waterloo in Science, Math, and Engineering programs especially, but what does it matter? My best friend and classmate is Korean-born… we study together and we party together. I was brought up to value academics above anything else, and I get 80's and 90's in my classes just like some of my Asian friends. And I'm not an unusual case. I also know Asian students who party 5 days a week, are part of student government, promote for entertainment companies, and coordinate university-wide events. I know Asian students who have failed classes or have dropped out of their program entirely. I can't speak much about other faculties such as Math and Engineering, except to say that I have white friends who are in the top 5% of their classes in both disciplines.

  383. When I read this article, I think about the number of hands it had to go through before publishing and I cannot that it was passed for publication.

    There's a reason why the University of Toronto is the top school in Canada. There are high standards that you have to meet to get in. High school cut-offs are usually in the 80s for most programs, while they the cut-offs are much lower for other universities like Queens, Western and McGill. So, if this article is saying anything, it's saying that White people are not as smart as asians.

    Anyways, as a fellow student from the University of Toronto, I'm very disappointed they accepted a student like Alexandra here. I'm glad they changed her name in this article because I'm sure the students here do not agree with her perspective about the university population. Many students here do well in school and have a life outside of school.

  384. This article says exactly what my experience involving college for the past 4 years was like. I'm a Junior student at the University of Ryerson studying Environmental Sciences. However, I feel that I could've gotten into a much better university – such as UofT's Med school – if it wasn't for the amount of Asians in Toronto.

    First we have hispanics taking jobs from guys down in the states and now Asians taking university spots from us in Canada. In High School I worked so hard and only got a 73% average because of the amount of Asians in my institution. The teachers had to make everything harder because those Asians had no lives and only studied. I don't know how their parents forced them into something as terrible as slavery but people should ENJOY school life; not study their butts off for it. If the Asians just relaxed a bit then I'd have gotten a 90% average and I'd have gotten into the UofT Life sciences that I aimed for.

    If my family had more money to pay for my residence then yeah, I'd have gone to a school like Queens as well. But no, instead because of my Asian peers I ended up in a crappy place like Ryerson. It doesn't stop there, though. There are still a ton of Asians in Ryerson (presumably these guys didn't do well in High School English). And just like in High School, these Asian students push the professors to increase the work difficulty (because we all know that not everyone should get 100% in a class) by studying 24/7, leaving all the other students at a loss of marks.

    I'm just a guy who wants to party some because that's what the College life is about! Go to parties every week and get drunk, then work hard for your finals to push up your marks. But no, the demographics of schools in Canada are polluted with people who are almost deliberately trying to push you out.

    Just answer these questions: how often do you see Asians in the library?
    How often do you see Asians at parties?

    And there you go.

    • Why are you complaining about your own stupidity?

      • I'm not. I consider myself to be a very intelligent individual but I also have a life.

        • That is just an excuse. Where does someone's life end and work start? Does the high school dropout who spent all his time partying and socializing have more of a life than you? How do you define where your success should be? Have you ever thought that your 70 grades are pushing those high school dropouts out as well? If the Asians weren't there to show you you aren't good enough, you'd be doing the same to the bottom rung students in your class anyways. Don't complain and make excuses about your own inadequacies.

          • No, I think Nate is right. I would blame people for my own failure too! It feels better than blaming myself.

            I remember when I was 2 or 3 years old, I bumped into the wall and told my mum that it's the wall's fault that I was hurt.

            anyway~ in the end, i believe deeply that Nate is right. It's not and never his fault to party too hard, and have a glorious life. It's the fault of people whom strike hard to archive their goal in life thus make him look bad.

        • What kind of life do you have? Complaining about Asians?

    • I wanna blame the Olympic athletes for training too hard; without them, amateurs like me would win the gold medals. It's their fault for practicing too hard everyday, not my fault. A hundred time not mine.

      I wanna blame the rich people for paying $1000 for the First class Airplane ticket. Without them, I could get in first class seat with only $200, same as economic class. It's their fault to be rich, a hundred time not my fault.

      I wanna blame … blame. .. and blame people, but I will never blame myself for not training hard at sport, not willing to spend more money for a first class ticket, and not this and that …. maybe by keep blaming, people will start thinking that i am the real victim.

      * sarcasm*

      • Yeah but if you consider the fact that only a small minority of people actually participate in the olympics and purchase business class seats, and compare that to the ratio of Asians to non-immigrants; then you'll see why there's a problem with you Asians.

        • And only a small minority of people go to University. In that already small minority, an even smaller minority get A grades. Face it, you are not cut out for it. You simply are not at the top of the game. Don't blame others for being better than you. Be contempt with what you have. That or work harder :P

        • by the way, i am just a normal accountant with a college degree, making a bit more than normal wage

          why should u point your finger at me as if i am competing and causing your problem of partying too much and get a 73% grade?

        • “You Asians”? If you were so intelligent you’d realize how ignorant and racist that statement is. I dare you to insert another race after “you -”

          You’re not even worth arguing with because everything you say about Asians is only out of your own inability to look hard at yourself and realize you failed in your goals. You failed Nate. Please do live out your party days in UNIVERSITY (Toronto isn’t part of the US buddy), because it will be the highlight of your life. You’re life after Ryerson sounds like it will be in shambles considering how angry you sound about your ‘crappy’ education.

          Or maybe you wrote this while drunk. You’re life sounds envious.

          Now you have two options:

          1) keep going the way you’re going

          Or

          2) pull yourself together and make something of yourself – make your parents proud because I’m sure they’d be ashamed to know they raised a complacent and hateful son

          • Wow the only thing an asian knows to do: make ur parents proud

            you dont even have a life of ur own

          • Don't forget that they also know how to completely dominate you in life :P Most of them will go on to succeed while you will continue to live a mediocre life with your average grades in an average school.

            I guess you really haven't the intellect to understand hard work today helps bring success later which often means financial stability to party if they like when they are older.

            You further act as if Asian people don't know how to enjoy life. Yes they work hard, but have you ever been to chinatown or uptown? Walk around in the middle of the night and you'll see karaoke bars, clubs, tea shops filled with them.

          • what is so wrong about makin our parents proud? it's on of many ways of saying thank you for raising us to be someone. I'm guessing you don't have anything to be thankful for.

            btw, i do have a life of my own. i know my priorities though.

          • oh gosh, they already dominate your closet.

          • Wow Nate, nice of you to assume that I’m Asian based offme mentioning the notion of ‘parents.’ You’re a magician at avoiding what everyone is telling you – take responsibility for yourself. By the way, Im as blonde and blue eyed as the come- but i dont blame others for my failures- i dont blame other races either

    • Nate, God did not promise you a place in the school of your choice. Get over it.

    • I wanna blame and complaint too!

      I wanna blame the Olympic athletes for training too hard; without them, amateurs like me would win the gold medals.

      I wanna blame the hockey players for practicing every days, without them, guys like me who only play a few times a year would be the national team.

      I wanna blame the Nobel price winners for working too hard, without them, commoners like me would get that price.

      I wanna blame rich people for pushing up the price of brand name polo's. Without them, I would be able to get a few brand name polo's at 20$

      in the end, it's all people's fault, and all we need to do is blame others.

      as long as we don't blame ourselves, that's cool enough :)

      * sarcasm*

    • don't blame other people for your low grades buddy

    • You know what, I go to Ryerson too, and if you don't like Asians, maybe you should say it out loud in front of Ryerson, but be ready to have thousands of students stomp on you.

  385. I have a great idea to solve the problem.

    Instead of stuyding and working hard, commiting fewer crimes, Asians should emulate another minority group, to drop out of school, to deal drugs, commit violent crimes and to be on welfare……This way the media will glorify Asians and dedicate a month to celebrate Asian culture. Not to mention women will love Asians, too. And no media would dare to criticize Asians if Asians act that way.

    • Very well said!!! :D

  386. You are an Idiot. Sounds like you missed out on the real western experience.

  387. The writer of this article is totally coward and loser!

  388. During my time at UBC, I definitely noticed a lack of assimilation in recent immigrant, and foreign student populations. Second and third generation Canadians descended from people from anywhere in the world all pretty much seemed the same to me. If there is a problem, it is with too many foreign students being allowed into Canadian universities.

    Also, in my experience, people get hired because they fit in socially with a company, much more than on their grades. So you better be able to hang if you want a cool job.

    • You fail to realize that many of these students do wish to return back to their country when they complete school. How can we as a nation accepting of all people and cultures say there are too many immigrants in our schools? I always thought Canada was much more open to immigrants and foreigners.

      Also, who defines what a cool job is? There are plenty of jobs for people sitting in a cubicle programing with no requirement for much social skills. They get paid well and will live a much greater life than if they were stuck in their own country. Not everyone is as lucky as you to have been born and raised in a developed country. So they work hard to get here and you try to push them down. They don't get the CEO position jobs you want, so why are you worried as if this is a problem. You keep competing for your cool positions and let these Asian students work hard to get themselves a better life without the cool job you want so much.

      In the end, if you are qualified and good enough, you will get what's yours. There is no problem about too many foreign students being allowed in to Canadian universities. You said it yourself, they won't fit in socially with a company and will eventually be weeded out :P

  389. One one hand, we have media positioning it as a major concern that North American students are moving away from science, math and engineering and that this will weaken our competitiveness in today's global economy. On the other hand, we have Macleans positioning it as a big social problem that the Asian Canadians do strive in science.math and engineering because they make non-Asian Canadians students look bad.

    Tell us what you want, Macleans!

  390. Then again British =/= Chinese. Different race, different culture, and different ways to do things. The act of putting up a Chinese sign may mean "hey, we're authentic here!".

  391. Hey, great way to take everyone's mind off the bonhomme cover

  392. I deplore this kind of journalism. All it does it re-play the racist card and provide fuel for those who promote such. What difference does it make that someone is "Asian"; given our "nation of immigrant' tag, their families could very well have been in this country fro generations. Find it hard to believe that MacLeans has sunk this low.

  393. Here is why MacLeans should remove this article with an Apology:
    The Medical Schools in Canada are Dominated with Women. This is "WRONG" to label Medical schools as "TOO Female/Feminine"! This is simply WRONG and a sign of backward thinking towards Women.
    =>Now Read the following with the two Cases in mind to find out why this article is so WRONG: If you do not go to Medical Schools (U of T) because there are mostly Female (Asian) students there, there is some thing wrong with you! If you can not get into medical school (U of T of UBC) because Women (Asians) study too hard, there is some thing wrong with you!!
    Some may argue that this article could be an example of "Shy Racism"!

    This is why, I believe MacLean should apology for this 'very wrong' article.

  395. They walk in groups and laugh out loud,
    They speak a different language and act all proud.
    They excel in academics and are top of my class,
    You ask one of them for help but they don't want you to pass.
    They think under 85% is the end of the world,
    They dress all fancy with their hair curled.
    You can't pronounce their foreign names,
    And they think you are to blame.
    When will this finally come to an end?
    It won't, so welcome to the asian trend.

    • Loser ,loser loser
      jealous to sick

    • lol

      way to generalize.

      you sound like a bitter student who couldn't succeed in school.

  396. If i was the founder of Aritzia i would not want to take part of this article regardless if the article was called `too asian`, `too brown or `too white`.

    `Too smart` i would consider.

  397. Once again xenophobia and charges of reverse discrimination emanate from closet racists. As mentioned by another reader, there are strongly racist undertones in this article, which should have been a strict condemnation of racism and xenophobia. Where else have we seen "white" people moving away because there are too many "colored" people moving in?

  398. Now you have a small taste of what it feels like to be a minority, and obviously you don't like it. Still, don't feel too badly. I have an MD-PhD and have seen many of my Asian friends get into undergrad curriculums because they are race-blind, only to discover that they get filtered out by med schools during the interview process. In spite of a 90% Asian population at the undergrad level, there is maybe barely 10% in the medical school in UBC. So if you are white, you will have a 10-fold better chance of getting in. The hiring environment in other industries and fields I find is no different. So now that you have a taste of what it feels like to be a minority, but understanding that at the end of the day it is not you but others that are discriminated against, will you A) develop 'angry white heterosexual male syndrome', or B) fight for the rights of the minorities that you obviously feel so threatened by?

    • I don't feel threatened by "minorities" at all… in fact I think in cities such as Toronto, the entire term is fallacy. Look up the statistics… in Toronto and at the University of Toronto Caucasians ARE the minority… I'm sorry I just buy this purported discrimination anymore. I have a unique skill set and social abilities that allow me to succeed and can compete on my own intellectual merit… not because of the color of my skin. Maybe you are the one that is threatened that white people CAN work hard and study their asses off and not just party and drink… shocking I know.

    • They will probably rejoice that they are white! Now I understand why there are so many Chinese-Canadians in the medical schools in Hong Kong. They all got filtered out due to their race. Probably it is a good thing anyway because what is the point of getting a degree but then not able to find jobs or patients? I have noticed that most ethnic Asian doctors and dentists in Vancouver do not have many non-Asian patients. In fact, some white people told me that you want to see a doctor quickly, Asian doctors are the best because you do not have to wait that long.

  399. You'd think considering one of the author's of this article's boyfriend was Asian, that there'd be less racial stereotyping. Guess not.

    • Boyfriend must be very jooksing/white-washed. He could also think that schools like U of T and Waterloo are "too FOBBY"

  400. It's disappointing that this matter is raised as an issue at all. Xenophobia and self-imposed segregation (like "white" people moving out of a neighborhood when some "colored" folks move in… or getting off a bus for that matter) are never a justification for discrimination. What this magazine should address is rather how many of these poor Asian students are accepted into the professional schools that actually lead to jobs, or find good jobs afterwards. The fact is that they are highly discriminated against, and I don't think that partying and playing sports will increase their chances of landing a job or getting promoted. Unfortunately it's still a matter of pigmentation. It's regrettable that some people think that these poor folks should even be begrudged the rewards of the marks that they worked so hard to earn. Where is the article on whether it would be appropriate to cull Caucasians from lead roles in films, music bands, and sports teams to make way for Chinese-Canadians? The truth is, any Caucasian, just like any Asian, can study as much or as little as he or she wants. If they choose not to study hard, they will be less competitive. End of story.

  401. Maclean's, why did you have to change your first sentence? It used to be:

    "'Too Asian?' – A term used in the U.S. to talk about racial imbalance at Ivy league schools is now being whispered on Canadian campuses."

  402. I think this article only applies to Chinese people.
    I'm South-East Asian, and I'm nothing close to how the article describes Asians students.

    • yeah, cauz u r not smart to be

    • And what makes you think it's true enough to apply to Chinese people?

  403. Macleans, if you want to piss off the Asian community, you just did.

    Instead of looking towards the high percentage of Asians at these universities, you should be looking at the lack of white kids.

  404. Not only is this article overgeneralizing Asians, but it's generalizing whites as well. What? Are they all party-goers and drunks who refuse to push that extra mile? There are plenty of white people that I know that try their hardest in school and are able to attain high marks.

  405. I am sorry an interesting article with a balanced perception gets so many silly racist comments.

    The situation here in Australia, (where we have sent our 3 (“blonde”) kids thru uni), is very similar. TOP unis ration their overseas students, ( as these often bring standards DOWN when students barely speak English and have an unofficial preferential pass system designed purely to keep the cash coming into the uni and country.)
    Local schools and unis are dominated by hard working LOCAL Asian kids who deserve their success when they choose to work so hard. A culture which values hard work and pleasing your elders is alien to OUR local “blonde” kids, who , like Canadians, often overdo the parties, and resent the Asian achievements.
    My sympathies lie with local Asian kids who need to flag their local (as opposed to overseas) qualities in a visible way…when the usual call goes up for GROUP WORK, (why would a uni lecturer mark 6 projects when he can mark one? Another totally unjust system!) there is a mad scramble to avoid working with overseas students (and being their unpaid tutors!)

    Attitudes to local Asians, tho, are understandably VERY different!

    • I don't think you have any sort of grasp as to how Canadian universities work, it might well be appropriate if you were to keep your comments about the state of your nation to just that, your nation.

  406. What about other racial minorities? This article is clearly a racial vendetta. FAIL.

  409. If prospective University kids don't want to go to U of T because it's "Too Asian" then who cares? This means that the kids that really DO want to get into U of T and try hard will have a greater chance of doing so. These kids who probably don't want to go to U of T because it is "too Asian" most likely never lifted a finger in their life and expect things to be handed to them on a silver platter, including grades. Being Asian and currently attending U of T, I do agree that there are plenty of Asians that do go to all three campuses, and that's because they all worked hard to get in, study, and succeed. Let them be! They worked hard to get in there and paid their tuition fees so why would it matter? If they choose to live in the damn library and have a textbook attached to their eyes 24/7 a day then more power to them. Do whatever you want, I can't stop you.
    "Alexandra", who ever the hell you are, I should suggest that you and your brother actually visit one of the three U OF T campuses and see what hard work looks like. Not everyone there who is studying hard is Asian. But of course you won't make the effort because you probably live in the middle of no where, where multiculturalism doesn't exist.
    On an ending note, I was NEVER pressured by my parents to go to U of T and go into medical studies. They just want me to go to school and get an education. Not every Asian that goes to school wants to become a Doctor or a Nurse and I sure as hell do not.

  410. i am totally surprised that such a prestige magazine as maclean's would publish such an racist article.

    people who are successful in life works hard for it. you don't get to be a doctor, engineer, ceo, prime minister, etc. by drinking your life away. you have to work hard for it.

    if you choose not to work hard for your future, so be it. don't blame others for doing so.

    so what are you guys going to write next? "Hollywood is too Jewish"?????

  411. According to this article, the applications requirement should then be:
    – B grades average.
    – Drink 3 pints and still walk in a straight line.
    – Recite a line of Chris Rock, or Russel Peters.
    – Answer the question, "Screw Pam Anderson or Jenna Jameson".
    – Have 500+ friends on Facebook.

  412. Instead of rebutting to the article, we really should focus on the point here: the schools such as the Ivy Leagues implementing the "secret quota" that caps the number of Asian students; as well as the people who segregate Asians. Canada and the US (being dependent on immigrants) is now facing the inevitable truth, that the "native" Caucasian population are feeling threatened by the competitiveness of the new-comers. All that mentioned in the article are what would naturally happen to minorities, as proved by African American, or Jewish history…

    My question to Maclean is (and hopefully it could be answered), is that, is there a solution to this?

  413. really?

  414. what you said in your opening statement is untrue. If asian students only cared about marks, they would not be coming to Canada. Many students came to Canada because they believed that some parts of the Canadian lifestyle would benefit them. Even in their home country, some asians would go to university focusing on gaining connections for later on in life.

  415. white people should just quit complaining like a bitch and put sometimes into studying rather than getting drunk and high in those sophomore parties.

  416. Dear Stephanie Findlay and Nicholas Köhler,

    Are you sure this wasn't just self justification for going to Western? Maybe the two of you drank a little too much and didn't have time to copy edit this on the way out. It is quite obvious that neither of you would have had the skills to get into said "Asian" schools. Why? You're journalists.

    Form your own opinions, journalists are just there to start fires.

  417. i laughed when some idiot commenter said that asians have some sort pre-cracked prep course for each university course in north america and are cheating their way up.

    lol where did that come from?

    please tell me where i can sign up for those courses! hahahha

    idiot….

  418. wow what's with all the racists(remembrance day costume racists, nova scotia cross burning, and macleans writers) lately?

    is it some sort of coming out party in canada?

  419. Modern science and engineering were first institutionalized in the western societies; music instruments such as piano and violin were invented by caucasians. They are very important part of western culture, I don't understand why some white people would criticize asians for working too hard to be good at those knowledge and principles that the western civilization was built upon. Perhaps for some people partying and drinking have become more important part of the western cutlure than science and technology? But again, this may be just another example of natural development of human civilization: the essense of a civiliation usually gets carried forward by people from another culture.

    • Agreed, much like how Europeans took inventions from ancient China and made them their own, such as gunpowder, paper currency, noodles, etc.

  420. Anyway, asian is more smart.

  421. Wow. The implicit racism of this article is startling. Cancel my subscription!!

  422. Are the Hockey Teams "too white"?

    • The NBA is too black. If black people weren't so good at basketball, more white people will be in the NBA.

  423. I would argue the "spot robbed by imigrants" comment is childish at best. The world is a complicated socio-economic place. Bottom line is the Provincial and Federal governments put a lot of money into subsidizing tuition and educational infrastructure in this country. Those political entities are entitled to a return on their investment. This return should be a Canadian student, getting a job in Canada, based on their Canadian funded degree. It's not that non-citizens aren't welcome. It's just that (grades willing) citizens should get the first shot (regardless of race) because so much time and money has already been invested in their education.

    Oh and by the way, if you are going to take the time to comment on an article such as this, at least make sure you get the magazine's name right. It's Macleans.

    • I'm fairly sure that most Asians (by descent) who attend Canadian Universities are also Canadian citizens. Those who aren't have to pay international tuition fees, rendering your "government money" argument moot.

  424. I canceled my macleans subscription.

  425. Please don't think all asians are chinese.
    Koreas and japanese are not chinese.
    chinese populationis so mush that's why so many chinese are around the world. even in japan and Korea, there are so many chinese study or live.

    • Russian and English are not the same ethnic group right?
      Chinese people always like to say " i am an asian" they want to inculd japanese and korean as a chinese.
      To be honestly, Japanese and Korean does not like chinese in many reasons, Sorry but this is ture

      • You point being? That you agree with whatever the article is saying? That you're racist? You're not Asian or you're just pinning it all on Chinese people? Trying hard to make sense are we? Thinking you're so smart? If anything, it's people like you who are a disgrace.

      • To be 'honestly', I do not like YOU in 'many reasons', Sorry but this is 'ture'.

  426. First off I will say that I'm in George Brown College…. The fact is pretty asians dont make it. You gotta get down n dirty.. thats y all of them dropped out of MECH. ENGINEERING in the first semester… You can say my class now has absolutely 0 girls… and all white people now…. First semester was a bunch of asians that copied off eachother and when the smartest of them dropped, all the others were then gone.

    Anyway the thing is All the asians will definitely thumbs down this comment but I dont care. I am half asian and I will admit all it takes is a little motivation which the asians kinda of have. They dont have it as easy as the white where they drop out n their parents pay for it. The asians come to canada looking for a better place for their families and thus strive hard to bring them across or to prove something to their siblings or parents.

    If u wanna look pretty n wear ur TNA (God bless it) then go to business or somethin… take ECE or fashion or somethin… which is what all the lazy ass people who cant do anything go to… PS all the people in my course that dropped ended up in one of those programs… Those courses are all white and other races + pretty asians… you know why?

    BECAUSE: all they have to do is flaunt their sht and draw pictures and stitch pockets onto jeans.. In business it may be a little harder than that… they might just be adding a few numbers… a little standard deviation here and there..

    No offense to anyone in those courses but most likely their the ones complaining… and those courses are more packed than any other… ex: Engineering class currently has 30 students which started at 200… those courses are so full a friend of mine couldnt get in…

    Work hard for what u want… race has nothing to do with it… My motivation being half asian was: I failed math more than once in gr 9 10 and 11… a teacher told me I'd never make it… and I decided I'll prove that asshole wrong.. and guess what I went back to teach her class as a student volunteer for 3 days straight and outsmarted her… Now I heading for my ENG degree and its a piece of cake.. all because of motivation! Something the asians have the most!

    • " take ECE or fashion or somethin… which is what all the lazy ass people who cant do anything go to… PS all the people in my course that dropped ended up in one of those programs… Those courses are all white and other races + pretty asians… you know why? "

      So now you're saying that people who educate themselves are ugly?

      • Grow the f*ck up and stop using racial slurs you moron.

    • where's george brown college?

      that's a university.

      don''t pretend you're smart . that's not even a real school

    • dude i wouldn't go around saying im from george brown college.

      i never heard of your school.. had to google it to make sure it even existed. LMAO

      LOL the asians in your school must be the super dumb ones(ie like genetic retards) because no self respecting individual would want to waste their time in a school like that

  427. why don't we focus on ways to encourage students who don't have the financial opportunity or support to excel and reach their goals of getting into universities instead of trying to stop a certain group of people from following their goals/dreams. This is ridiculous, these people work hard to get into universities and want to excel. What is wrong with that? Just because they don't want to get drunk and wasted they're considered not the norm of campus life? Since when is getting drunk and wasted society's norm and appreciated? Maybe if the caucasian canadians would step off their damn pedestal and realize that they're not any better or worse than asian canadians and realize that they go to a certain school because it fits their interests and needs not because of the type of people that go there.

  428. Of course the writers of this aritcle are caucasian.

  429. Many great comments here.

    Where is the apology from Maclean’s?

  430. Hey Maclean's,
    Props on choosing 2 rich white girls who go to an elite private school which is mostly white dominated their mommies and daddies probably bought their way into and choose their higher education based on "chillness" and "lack of competition" just because they are too lazy, privileged, and scared to interact with people who are of a different racial group.
    Really, Maclean's? Why would your editor even approve of this article? and COMPLETELY agree with the comment above about "Are hockey teams too white?" Stephanie Findlay and Nicholas Köhler, I hope you both are proud of yourselves with the most unintelligent article based on racist bias. Sickening and disgraceful in the face of journalism.

  431. how about you go to school and get educated, then say something that doesn't make everyone want to slap you. Sound good?

    • Why don't you go to work making minimum wage to produce these pots and pans for us to use? =)

  432. hey maclean's, you guys should not have won the "2010 Canadian Online Publishing Awards"

  433. give the gift of enlightenment?

    more like give the gift of racial stereotyping!

  434. Hey Maclean, do you hear that? It’s your magazine losing more readership than ever before. I’ll just take my hard earned money to The Economists who writes less dibble than your pathetic little trash.

    http://theashcan.com/2010/11/11/too-white-the-mac…

    If the universities are becoming ‘too Asian’, the educated mess will never read your ill informed, poorly researched and worded rag.

    Oh yes. I’m an Asian, who has many different races of friends, and actually I lack friends from my own culture. I also know white people who has more none-white friends.

    Last year, there were articles stating that there are too many immigrants, now this? As a 1.5 generation Asian, I’m f-ed. I have no country to live in and feel accepted.

  435. Part 2:
    The only reason any of this used to be a concern, is when we take in International Students who complete their degree and go back to their country – thus not contributing to the Canadian economy. This is why international spots are limited (because we still want to be open, but give priority to our own citizens), but there is absolutely no reason to discuss other ethnic demographics.

    This is so incredibly stereotypical and I am appalled that this article is found in Macleans and not in a blog of bigotry.

    Students are selected based on academic merit and supplementary applications (such as "why do you want to go to…", "what experiences do you..") that are based on characteristics, experiences, and so on. If this just happens to result in a greater *East* Asian population (There are other countries in Asia, another fault in this article) succeeding to be admitted, then so be it.

  436. PLEASE IGNORE PREVIOUS COMMENT – it is a duplicate.

    Part 1:

    I find this article completely irrelevant to everything.

    Why do we care about the ethnic demographic of universities at all?
    The only reason any of this used to be a concern, is when we take in International Students who complete their degree and go back to their country – thus not contributing to the Canadian economy. This is why international spots are limited (because we still want to be open, but give priority to our own citizens), but there is absolutely no reason to discuss other ethnic demographics.

    This is so incredibly stereotypical and I am appalled that this article is found in Macleans and not in a blog of bigotry.

    Students are selected based on academic merit and supplementary applications (such as "why do you want to go to…", "what experiences do you..") that are based on characteristics, experiences, and so on. If this just happens to result in a greater *East* Asian population (There are other countries in Asia, another fault in this article) succeeding to be admitted, then so be it.

  437. I find it sad and quite frustrating that here people are complaining that "asians" don't have a life and only study. And then when asians do try to participate in what are considered "Canadian" activities such as cheering at a hockey game, they are looked down upon and made to feel like they are just trying to fit in and are fake.

    I know Canada is supposed to be renowned for its multiculturalism, but it's such a front. In big cities like Vancouver, people grudgingly accept non-whites because they have to, but in smaller cities such as Kelowna or the islands off the coast of BC, the racism and discrimination is undisguised. The people there are generally either outright rude to non-whites, or treat them with exaggerated kindness, as if they're too stupid to understand what's going on and do not deserve respect.

    People make a big deal out of the racism that black people have faced in the US. I agree that they have faced violence and have been ill-treated throughout history by the white people there, but I think it is important to remember that racism is NOT just blatant acts of aggression or violence toward other races. It's also in the small every day actions you take, words you say, and attitudes you adopt when dealing with other people.

    This article is not helping matters by adhering to racial stereotypes. What an insult to Canadian media.

    • Its called the “polite” Canadian, an inheritance from the British.

      My aunt once said at least white Americans used to/ or would tell blacks straight out that they don’t like them.

      But I find that the second part or step to that was …generally white Canadians pretend to be nice in your face, while turning a knife in your back.

      I always remembered her comment

      • Totally agree. Canadians are the most hypocritical.

        • Right…hypocritical…

    • in smaller cities such as Kelowna or the islands off the coast of BC, the racism and discrimination is undisguised.

      Tell us more please.

  438. I want to start off with an introduction. I am a Chinese/Canadian, I have lived most of my life in Canada, and wherever I go, I am proud to say I am Canadian. But this is not about me, rather, it is about someone I never thought I liked…until today.

    In my highschool, there is a math teacher, a rather short little (Caucasian) man, who loved math. He liked Asian kids especially, and it is for no other reason other than that they excelled at math. He never liked me though, since I was never a good mathematician. In return, he also became the most popular teacher among them. This teacher talked to them, made them feel comfortable with speaking English, and soon, they moved out of their niche. They socialized, and they began talking to kids of other races. I must say, that it is the common love for knowledge that brought them into a society
    that they were looking for.

    This teacher still teaches at my old highschool, and as I said, it is only until today did I really felt a deep respect for him. In fact, I always thought he had favouritism towards new immigrant Asians. However, I finally realized that it is through this mutual passion to learn and to understand that solved a similar problem as stated by the article. Perhaps we should think that the problem lies with us, the native English speakers, not opening up to our immigrant counterparts, and making them feel at home. Through our collective interactions, it would encourage a more sustainable integration of cultures.

  439. funny how parents are blaming asian kids for their kids failures.

    if your kids couldn't get into a well-respected university, it was because they were either too dumb or too lazy.

    don't blame others for your faults.

    even if your dumb kids made it in, they would never have survived the academic rigors at well-respected universities (ie Univ of Toronto, Waterloo, UBC, McGill).

    consider yourselves lucky that there are mediocre schools that are happy to accept your mediocre kids

  440. 962 comments! this one being 963!
    Aside from being obviously controversial, ignorant and offensive, I wonder how this article has increased the web traffic to Macleans.ca and how much ad revenue it has attracted because of it…

    Smart!

    • short term gain, long term loss

      obviously the people working maclean's should have gone "too asian" schools because they weren't smart enough to realize that intelligent people will stop reading their thrash magazine after this.

  441. 白色的人是愚蠢的。白色人死亡

    • oh come on. i'm asian too and offended by this article but posting something in chinese?

      you're just as bad as those idiot authors.

      grow up

      • agreed, 100%.

      • I can read Chinese, but no one will call white people 白色的人…… LOL

        This is so funny…..

        • I think this person is a troll and has this translated by Google or something.

    • clearly this is someone who just used an online eng to chinese translator …… my advice to you is to find a chinese friend and get them to proofread for you before you post this kind of garbage. : )

    • your are not Chinese for sure ,,Because,In Chinese ,"white people "never be translate —–白色人.

  442. funny how maclean can insult multiple groups with one amateurish article

    Whites: you're dumb and lazy

    Asians: you're nerds with no social life.

    you suck Macleans! im never reading your magazine again.

    i urge everyone else who feel insulted by this article to do the same!

  443. BOYCOTT MACLEANS

    garbage journalism at its finest!

  444. i think Macleans should issue an apology to both whites and asians.

    insulting to both groups

  445. If this is not racism, I have no idea what else could be qualified as racism. I am cancelling my subscription to MaCleans and as I understand from some popular chinese forums, a lot of Chinese Canadians are doing so in addition to writing letters protesting the publication of this article.

    This is the least we can do.

  446. so are indians and others from "asia" included in these statistics?

  447. Admission based solely on transcript is stupid. Strong social skills are more important to success than technical skills.

    Instead of focusing on grades, universities should put significantly more weight on extra-curriculars.

    • Words of someone who failed to get into university

      • Sad that people like you are giving your race a bad name. There are so many great white people, but idiots like you end up ruining the image for your whole race.

        Jonathan, while having social skills are very important, you can not bank on them alone. You can however rely completely on technical skills. Therefore, which of the two is more important? Obviously the individual who possesses both will achieve the most, however, if you were to say one is more important than the other, it would be too subjective.

        If you want to look at extra-curriculars, Asians are also extremely involved. The Asian students I know are 90 students while maintaining executive positons in many clubs and organizations. Regardless, there is a niche for the individuals with sufficient technical knowledge and a strong command of social skills and also a niche for those with pure technical skills. Why do you think there are so many Asian computer programmers and engineers? They definitely didn't get there because they were the life of the office parties, they are there because they are damned good at what they do.

  448. We need to put things into perspective here. That is, it is about time we find out what the majority of the population really feels.

    Now, let's not kid ourselves here. Canada is a white man's country and the mainstream culture is a White society. This is an objective fact.

    I want to know why so many comments here are condemning the article. Without the propagandist facade of multiculturalism and political correctness b.s., isn't THIS exactly how White people and the mainstream/dominant culture have always felt about colored minorities for the last 200 years?

    Any college-level sociology textbook will tell you that white flight, residential segregation, racism is a fact of life here in NORTH AMERICA. Why are people so surprised when some people finally tell the truth?

    As a Hong Kong immigrant from before 1997, I am glad that some white people finally tell us how they really feel. This reminds me of the TV interviews just after Columbine. On the surface, before the incident people there originally felt everyone in the school was in One Big Happy Family; but in fact, there were racism, school bullying, segregation and all sorts of problems.

    I am not saying white people are evil or anything, they have the right to choose their lifestyle, but if racial thing is such a big thing for them, we need to do something about it. Send the Asian students home. Send the colored immigrants home?

    The expectation of Balkanization is real at school and in the workplace, too. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. When marriage fails, there comes divorce. That's all.

    • The whole thing about Canada being a happy multicultural family is a big lie. Have you checked the latest statistics from Citizenship and Immigration of how many HK immigrants came to Canada every year in the past 10 years? The number was so small (around 1,000) that it was less than one-tenth before 1985 when the exodus in the run up to 1997 began. You and I know why – HK immigrants who arrived here in 1990s have had extremely bad experience of Canada, and most of those in the working age have since left and spread the word in Hong Kong. Who in the right mind in HK will still want to come to Canada, honestly?

      I agree with you. Canadians need to be honest with themselves. If they do not like coloured immigrants, do not admit them, and it will be better for everybody. There is nothing wrong with that. Every country has the right to choose their own immigrants and set whatever criteria they see fit. That is the reason why I do not think that the Canadian government would have needed to apologize for the Japanese internment or the Chinese Head Tax. Those were policies made by a democratically elected government according to a due legislative process and they accurately reflected the opinion of the electorate of the time, which was extremely racist and despicable. No apologies after the fact are necessary. Nor will they make any difference.

      • I do not agree that there are less Hong Kong immigrants in the past 10 years is because Canada is bad. It's more about 1) those who have the financial capability and desire to leave Hong Kong already did before 1997; 2) post-97 Hong Kong is not as bad as previously imagined.
        The problem is why Canada fails to keep the children of those immigrant families. The children are now finishing their university education and going back to Asia for jobs. Canada has invested a lot in their education. It is Canada's lost for letting them go. Is that because they feel that as visible minorities, their capabilities will not be recognized in the job market simply because of their race? There has been studies done. Researchers sent out very similar resumes using an Asian name, a British name, an East Indian name…etc. There's much higher chances for the British name to be asked for interviews. This shows ppl prefer white applicants while given applicants of similar qualifications. As much as Canada claims to be multicultural, racism still exists. And the only way for Asians to succeed, is to work harder, to have higher qualification than the white applicants. Canada, please ask yourself why this is happening, before you ask the Asians to stop working so hard.
        There are many Australians politicians who publicly disclose that they do not like Asian immigrants. If Canada does not like Asians, just say so. The Asian Canadians who succeed in Canada can do very well in other countries too. Canada is not their only choice.

        • I am aware of this study, too. I have also heard that this study was supposed to be released several years ago in a conference at UBC, but the organizing committee of that event prevented this paper from being presented at the last minute. For what reason, I don't know, but you can use your imagination.

        • Well, considering everything is relative to each other. Canada is bad compared with Hong Kong, namely Canadian taxes skyrocketing, cost of living going up, while jobs disappearing and wages become stagnant. But that's another discussion altogether.Well, considering everything is relative to each other. Canada is bad compared with Hong Kong, namely Canadian taxes skyrocketing, cost of living going up, while jobs disappearing and wages become stagnant. But that's another discussion altogether.

          I am so sick and tired of hearing people say Canada invested a lot in [immigrant children's] education.

          How does Canada exactly invest in education? Last time I heard in Vancouver, many school boards have budget short-falls, with White teachers getting laid off, because there has been a declining student enrollment year after year.

          Where does the money come from? Did Canada give FREE MONEY, free car, free house to immigrants? In case someone is wondering, immigrant is different from refugee. These are two different English words with different meanings under "Citizenship and Immigration Canada".

          That's the same case in university. So many sessional instructors (senior people with tenure don't do jack all year long). Without those students, even more white people will lose their jobs.

          What does Canada offer?

          • When I first arrived in Canada from Hong Kong 20 years ago, I found that the living standards of both places were comparable, but then Canada stagnated. In the past 5 years, it is very evident that Canada are in irreversible decline. All the hospitals, public transit systems, schools and universities are chronically underfunded. Infrastructure such as roads, highways, railways is crumbling slowly. If you see the roads and overpasses in Quebec and some parts of the Maritimes, they will shock you. I have recently visited some high schools in the city where I live, and the conditions of the these schools built in the 1950s and 60s were far, far worse than my own high school in Hong Kong in 1980s. They were just falling apart. I know that Canada has not developed that much since the postwar boom but those schools really shocked me.

            Health care is another casualty zone (no pun intended). The conditions of some of the hospitals are even worse than the second-tier hospitals in Hong Kong like the Prince Margaret Hospital or the United Christian Hospital in Kwun Tong in the 1980s. The waiting time for A&E or urgent care is unbelievably long – sometimes up to 8 to 12 hours. In today's Hong Kong, if you have to wait for more than 30 minutes, it will be reported in newspapers such as Oriental Daily and the like. A lot of HKers I know tend to seek treatment in HK if they have any major illnesses because the health system here is not very reliable.

          • Even 20 years ago, the living standard is lower in Canada. Too long to write here and off-topic here. I have my information.

  449. I don't see how this is any different than when white people were complaining about how the blacks and foreign people are taking over their jobs. Just because some Asians work harder doesn't mean they should be discriminated against. Maybe white kids need to work harder and white parents should instill a meritocratic view of life rather than complain about their kids not getting into universities. Just cause they can't get their kids to achieve a level of intelligence that is acceptable for university does not mean others that can surpass this standard should be discriminated against. I am appalled in disgust that such a magazine, especially a Canadian one where the country is dependant on immigrants, can be so discriminating and racist. I almost think this article was written just so Macleans can get some attention, because I am sure there are plenty more urgent and pressing issues that need to be reported. This whole article is a gross over-generalization about Asian students (because I am Asian and can say I've partied more than these white nerds at my school), and was definitely written and edited by only white people.

    Open your eyes. Why are we still segregating people by their ethnicities? Why can't we look at the fact that if kids want to get into university, they need to make the effort? Don't chirp on others just cause you can't get your lazy ass to work. And white people, don't feel so entitled to everything. You guys weren't the first ones here, the indigenous people that you forced out violently were.

  450. "Any college-level sociology textbook will tell you that white flight, residential segregation, racism is a fact of life here in NORTH AMERICA. Why are people so surprised when some people finally tell the truth?"

    Because the truth is not popular in today's society. Sad, but that's a fact.

    I disagree that the solution is to "send the minorities" home. I think that we need to find a way to make it work that doesn't involve racist crap such as "Ok, let's get all the Chinese into camps and take their property!"

    I do think that the minorities who come should, at the very least, accept the native culture. For example, I heard of one case in Ontario where some Muslims were complaining because there was a gym with glass windows, you could see men and women working out wearing gym clothes. In Muslim culture, that's wrong. In Canadian culture, that's fine.

    In the end, the gym lost and had to cover the windows. This is wrong, Muslims should not have the right to tell Canadians what to do. Just like if I went to Saudi Arabia, and was making out with someone in public (fine in my culture) they would not accept it.

    • Send the minorities home with compensation and refund, please, white man?

      • I'm Asian (Chinese / Malay).

        • I doubt it but whatever, man.

        • You're half Chinese-half Malay?

          That's a VERY small percentage of the population… even in Malaysia. If you're lying, you've picked a very small population that you're 'pretending to be'.

          • My dad is ethnically Malay. My mom is ethnically Chinese. Both were born in Singapore, where they met/

    • The case that you mentioned actually happened in an YMCA in Montreal. The people who complained were not Muslims, but a Jewish group.

      • You are right, my bad. Still, my comment remains. People shouldn't come to Canada and complain about cultural norms here. It'd be like if I wanted to open a sex shop in Saudi Arabia, since it's ok in Canada.

        • So the cultural norm is not to study but drink their way through university?

          • Is it? I didn't say it was. And neither did the article.

            What the article said was that the people who do want to drink through university are more likely to be white. That is not equivalent to saying that it is a cultural norm for white people to do nothing but party.

  451. As a Canadian-born Chinese originally from Vancouver, currently studying Political Science at McGill university, I find this article is based completely on stereotypes, and misses out on the much of the Asian students who do actively participate in school clubs, go out, party, mingle with students of different ethnicities, and study subjects other than Science/math/computers. Moreover, this article neglects McGill, which Maclean's has ranked consistently as the top school in Canada for consecutive years (higher than U of T…academically), and has a significant, (and growing) Asian community.

    While it is true there are Asian students who concentrate solely on their studies, this can be said of certain white students as well. To say that Asians do not like to socialize, attend parties, consume alcohol, is completely unfounded. From what I know of of UBC's Chinese Varsity Club, which I myself participated in one of their ski trips back in my highschool days, their activities are not exclusively Asian, and there were whites who joined in. Needless to say, it wasn't without the "fun" and alcohol that the Rachel in the article was looking for.

    Reading this article was especially infuriating because of my personal experience at McGill. Asians participate actively in clubs, and not ones that are ethnically-based either – there are Asians at exec committees of the Political Science Student Association, the Psychology Student Association. Asians immerse themselves in Frosh, Carnival, campus-wide events, which Rachel would undoubtedly dub as events that would exceed her wildest expectations. McGill is famous for our "work-hard, play-hard" motto, which does not exclude any ethnicities. In my poli sci courses, I have classmates who are Mainland Chinese, who you would expect from a stereotypical point of view to study of course Math and Science, learning about politics and international development.

    Therefore, please open your eyes to a new era, where Asian students are Not confined to study what you stereotypically would expect them to. Instead of focusing on the perceived cleavages and Asians who fit the stereotype (which other ethnicities could find themselves with the same characteristics), look more into the ways in which Asians have immigrated here looking to benefit from the liberal western system of education, and Not be categorized in these narrow-minded classifications.

  452. I would just like to say East Asia is China, Japan, Korea
    And Vietnam/Thailand are in South East Asia… if you are going to split up the countries of Asia into their regions.
    Thanks.

    • Don't forget Taiwan.

  453. Garbage Journalism–no facts, no source, and not necessary to use race to card. Is Canada at riks of becoming another US? Are we using the race card because we, white canadians, can not make it in this competitive world? At least, that is what the US is doing and see where they are headed. Come on my white and asian canadian brothers and sisters, we aer better than what the garbage in this article is trying to characterize us. We, too, can complete and do well and we do not need to use the race card to get there.

    • Thanks for this. I completely agree. The fear mongering, scapegoating, and race baiting in mainstream media today comes mostly from the US. But our media comes from there as well. This is what is educating, entertaining, and indoctrinating the people of Canada. Until we generate our own media that is uniquely Canadian, our perceptions of the world will be primarily American.

  454. Garbage Journalism…continued…
    The artilce is three pages long when in reality it should have been half a page–it is has too much repeatation and rambling. The two authors themselves are a good examples of white candadians that can not make it in the real world and can not hold any other jobs so they decided to use this technique to find some work. However, the editor definitely should be fired for alowing such a garbagae in their fine newspaper. And, then, fire the two idiots who wrote this garbage in the name of white people and Canada. Long Live Canada and its ability to unite and accept peopole of all race, religion, and colors. We are adimired around the world for these attributes, more so than USA, and these two morons are giving us a bad name.

  455. The comments and discussion generated as a result of this garbage journalism is credited not to the content of the article, but to the dumbness and idiotic characters of the two authors and the editor. LOL

  456. Your writing sounds like you are those stupid ,failers! This is 2010 not 1930!!!

  457. Going back a few years, native people would also say White men crowded them out as well.

    This is a free country and we all choose our life. I believe the problem is, Mcclean is run by non Asian and they are also free to say anything they want. I can see a bit of sour grape in here.

    I do admit there is a chellange here as far as the non Asian goes, the territories are been taken over gradually. Hey, this is Canada and the landscape is constantly changing. May be one day, homosexual would gradually become the main stream and the then majority Asian would make comment the same way we are seeing now in Mcclean.

    One can sit back and feel resent about this fact or like all the successful corporation in Canada, think about how to take adventage of this trend and profit from it, personally or as an organization.

  458. Sinister article. I am an immigrant from Africa but i am "too Asian" as well so do all the people who came to this country and work they butt out to achieve excellence. I salute all the Asian people. Your hard work and discipline should be an examplier to any new comer who wants to have good life for his/her-self. As of today, I take the phrase "Too Asian" to meaning handwork, discipline, dedication, dream big and achieving academic excellence.y Therefore, I am Too Asian. I will attend and send my kids to "Too Asian" universities.

    Let all of us avoid divisions in an academic world, for this is a place for intellectual and reasoning people.

  459. I am incredibly disgusted and disappointed by this racist and ignorant article. I will be cancelling my MacLeans subscription immediately and urging everyone I know to cancel theirs.

  460. We need to answer honestly a few simple but basic questions:
    Do we want conscientious doctors or partying ones?
    Do we want hardworking engineers or partying ones?
    Do we want competent teachers or partying ones?
    Do we want good politicians or partying ones?

    • Sadly, that's why Canada has been falling behind. Too many white kids get good jobs not because they're the most qualified but because of their parents. That's why those Asian kids have to work that much harder in University.

  461. Does anyone else get annoyed with a few of these comments using racial slurs like 'chink' or being 'chinky'? Why do they think it's OK to use just because we don't get offended about it as seriously as other races do?
    Imagine if they used other kinds of racial slurs here, they'd be in court.

    • I'm actually really hoping that somebody take these people to court.

      I'm sick of being part of the race group that never stands up for itself…. whether against a communist government or racist white people.

      I mean, if black and anti-semetic slurs aren't ok, why is it ok to be discriminatory against Asians?

    • Chinese ppl should stand up against racism.

    • I wonder how many of them are willing to use the words "n!gger" and "sp!c". They won't, unless they can afford an expensive lawyer.

  462. @ Dedede

    I am also a Hong Kong immigrant who came here before 1997. I totally agree with what you said.

    • Yes, how sad.

  463. Make a search in Google and you will find that Findlay was involved with a student newspaper at UBC in Vancouver, the most racist city towards Asian in Canada if not the world.

  464. What is the problem of having too many Asian in the Universities?

    I suppose if all "Asian" are having fair skin complexion like white people and blue eyes then there will not be any issues at all. Since they can be visibly identified as Asian hence the "issue" of too Asaian surfaces. This is notthing but racism in disguise.

    • Probably what these hardworking Asian students should concentrate their efforts on is to invent some sort of genetic therapy so that we can all look European one day.

    • exactly, nth but racism in disguise.
      Both the authors and the magazine should apologize.

  465. Here you go. This is what I have found on the website of a student paper at UBC http://ubyssey.ca/about/

    "Today, you can see our alumni in newspapers across the country. Vaughn Palmer and Katherine Monk of The Vancouver Sun got their start here, as did sports pundit Tony Gallagher of The Province. Among our more recent alumni are Bruce Arthur of The National Post, Jonathan Woodward and Sarah Galashan of CTV News, and Stephanie Findlay, currently on a year-long internship with Maclean's. "

    • Thanks Chesterfield! I had thought about doing a google search, but didn't want to waste any more time on this garbage of an article.

    • When I started in the college press (long ago!), there were only 3 Asians (of 5 in history). The next year after I became an Editor (the only one of 5 voted in with opposition), dozens of Asian students joined the press (as well as people from other cultures you don't normally see in a newsroom). The coverage of Asian sources (and other sources from cultures you don't normally see) increased to 10%. So called “Asian” journalists also covered topics that had no “Asian” sources. The 10% was still below population representation but we still got complaints for being “Too Asian.” It told me mainstream media is not ready for diversity (while also sustaining readership happiness). It's an uphill battle with media. You can spend your whole life explaining yourself for being “Asian” while other people get to live their lives.

      I also don't see it as an “us” vs “them” thing. I have friends of all kinds. My daughter is named after a journalist who is not Asian.

  466. Macleans is an extremely racist magazine; its executives should be criminally prosecuted. That day is not far away. Freedom of speech does not give you the right to be openly racist. So keep it up Macleans! Your.. so called 'Asians' will run the entire world by next generation!

  467. mhm, pretty sure Artizia is run by Asians. At Square One location Mississauga, you can't even get a job their if you're not Asian. LOL PLEASE go to bed, you're stupid when you're tired.

    • i don't get it… who cares if Aritzia is run by Asians?

  468. I do believe that the Asian students that are sent to this country to attend our universities are more studious, but, I believe that we cow tow to much to the foriegn Asian students. My daughter was not accepted at UBC when she applied and went on to Gualph and received honors in her field. UBC was only taking foriegn students at the time because it brought in a healthy cash flow. I do believe that as tax payers our children should be intitled to go to our universities and not have to cross the country to attend another university.
    I also do not think the asian people are discriminated against but think it is the other way around. You may think that I am wrong but it is getting much harder to be comfortable in our own country due to favoritism, political correctness, etc. There must be a balance.

    • Amen

    • I agree that universities accepts too many international students and not enough local students is an issue. However, this is not what this article was focusing on. This article made a generalized assumption that all Asians studied like robots to get into universities. What it didn't say was how many of those Asians are internationals students, how many are Canadians with Asian heritage? Canadians with Asian heritage are local students just like your daughter. Their parents paid tax to the Canadian government too. And if the problem is universities not accepting enough local students, Asian Canadian students are affected just as much as your daughter was.

    • Your daughter didn't get accepted at UBC because her grades weren't good enough. Moo U, er, Guelph, is hardly comparable to UBC.

      If you're white and having a hard time feeling comfortable in Canada, a country that is 90% white, perhaps you should work on your self-esteem.

    • yvonne. the fact that your daughter was not accepted at UBC was because her grades were not good enough.

      UBC has one the highest admission standard in the country.

      maybe some better parenting would have gotten her into UBC

      honestly, i consider guelph the same as community college. the fact that she received honors at Guelph doens't mean squat. lol the best of the mediocre. great job!

      Also, perhaps you should learn to spell your own daughter's school name? just shows how ignorant you are

  469. Thanks for your honest post! Your post is what Canadian missions abroad should reprint and distribute to all immigrant visa applicants around the world. All immigrants should know what they are in for when they come here.

  470. I’m a non white immigrant who grew up in Canada.

    Its good if an individual can study 20 hours a day and become a doctor, a lawyer or an engineer.

    The truth of the matter is, you need social skills more than anything if you really want to get ahead. Take a look at the personalities of most of very successful business people.

    Socializing and interacting is more important than it’s ever been, unless of course you want intend to be a left brain “professional”. The rest of us need social skills.

    You still need the rest of us to plan your street and neighborhoods, teach and look after your kids, entertain, cloth and produce products for you, after you 12 days in your office/ hospital.

    The “idea” of the article seems racist…but I think what people are seeing and being aware of very slowly is ghettoisation in large Canadian cities by immigrants in the last 15 years….take a look around if you live in Toronto, something Canadians people used to slag off Yew York for having.

    Maybe its the internet and todays generation, but most of the people posting cant seem to write a proper sentence. I’m taking some college classes and there are chineses individuals who can barely speak english, yet they are in government related courses.

    I guess its my western bias of being born in a country that was a one time British colony.

    • well that’s what first comments seemed like. 1 sentence and 5 word kiddie text from a cell phone

      • To: WestHindian:

        "Maybe its the internet and todays generation, but most of the people posting cant seem to write a proper sentence."

        And I can see you TOTALLY excel at English right? With your:

        "and there are chineses individuals"…
        "well that's what first comments seemed like"…
        "1 sentence and 5 word kiddie text from a cell phone "…
        "Take a look at the personalities of most of very successful business people"….
        "unless of course you want intend to be a left brain "professional""…
        "after you 12 days in your office/ hospital"…

        Sorry, but, what the f*ck did you just say?

        • Real mature.

    • Hey, this is only a forum… Your opinion is heard, but there's no need to criticize someone's written english here.

  471. Why aren't u speaking aboriginal language then? Aborginal ppl are in Canada WAY BEFORE the French and British. Being here first does not mean anything. We speak English and French because French and British have bigger (military) power than the aboriginals. And now Asian students have bigger (brain) power to choose whichever university they want. What if an aboriginal student say white students taking their spots in the universities? Without the White students, an aboriginal student can get into university with a grade of C-. Clearly, this is not the attitude we need in this country.
    I don't know why you think the Chinese is trying to take over the world. The American, Canadian and British soldiers have been all over the world in the last 100 years. The Chinese soldiers have been in China all this time.
    And whichever university you went to (Laurier, Western, Queens, Mcgill), I feel sorry for that university to be your Alma Mater. I think very highly of those universities, but you just ruined their reputation for being so narrow-minded.

    • strongly agree here

    • Ante shows his ignorance to the fullest here.

  472. Ahem, Ahem…Ahem

    “FIRST! Why does Canada have the Queen of England on our coins and not the Emperor of China? Because we were here FIRST.”

    nice try.

    It would be nice if you guys were more vocal in trying to bring Native Canadians in the fray of Canadian society, maybe vocalization along putting more money into education in reserves.

    • I also engage very much with Native populations in this country. I support them 100% and believe it or not I am constantly at the Native Reserve by my Cottage buying products that Natives sell on their reserve like clothing, cigarettes and wooden carvings. I bought a birchwood Canoe – handcrafted in the traditional way for a large amount of money.

      See, the problem with you Asians is you know how to make money, and take peoples money – but you don't know very much about anything else. LET ME GIVE YOU A LITTLE CANADIAN HISTORY 101: When the French settlers came here in the 1500's and 1600's they established a large settlement named ACADIA – where they interacted peacefully with Native populations for more than a century. – You're probably expanding your eyes farther than ever because you never knew that did ya? Have you ever heard of Metis people? Have you sung their National Anthem? Because I have.

      It wasn't until The British came and messed things around that problems arised and things began to go downhill and UNFORTUNATELY Native populations began to dwindle due to wars, disease and more. You'd also be surprised by how many of us read Native Literature from writers like Thomas King, Richard Van Camp and Drew Hayden Taylor (MY absolute favourite). Do you even know what a Native Reserve is? Do you know how many there are in this country?

      Don't bring the native issue into this because this is a very complicated issue that is still ONGOING and we haven't taken EVERYTHING from them even though its been HOW MANY HUNDREDS OF YEARS SINCE 1500??? Shut the hell up, go home and go eat your rice! I am a big supporter of ALL Aboriginal Nations in this country. I would drive two hours to buy products from a Native Reserve and interact with Aboriginals than go buy them from a corner store owned by a Chinese person.

      • I give my money to reserves believe me as much as my financial situation will allow me. God knows, and I know.

        • Okay …you need to stop now…get off this thing and go play hockey or something …you’re being idiotic.

          So you as an individual give donations to a reserve?.

          According to Canadian law, after you forefathers wrecked their lives, then decided that you needed to control them as wards of the state…. so your supposed donations and buying of handicrafts, really does not really add much to their income

      • Stop speaking as if you are the only one who knows about aboriginal history. Asian Canadians who went to high school in Canada have to learn Canadian histories too, no different from students of other races.
        I live in a neighborhood that has more aboriginal ppl than white ppl. I see aboriginal ppl everyday. I've also encountered many of them through work. The friendship of Asian ppl and aboriginal ppl goes way back. When the Chinese railway workers and aboriginals were both facing discrimination from the white ppl, they were helping each other out, trading, having intercultural marriages…etc.
        And stop saying Asians "take ppl's money". The majority of Asians are not thieves nor robbers. They don't just "take ppl's money". You have the right to go buy things elsewhere, if you don't agree with the price.
        Why do u speak as if Asians ppl are taking everything away from you? In what right are you to tell me to "go home and eat rice"? Have you ever been asked to "go home and eat perogies"? Canada does not belong to one race. It belongs to all Canadians.

        • I am one of the very few who cares to learn about aboriginal history. We're living in the here and now and I'm trying to tell you why CHINESE or any other Asian language is not a global language. You steal people's money by stealing Canadian's jobs. And FOR YOUR INFORMATION, Canadian History isn't taught in Canadian Highschools, at least not in Ontario, it's Grade 6-8 Social Studies you moron. And for the Chinese people who were already here who HELPED build the railroad, thats fine. But we shouldn't be letting half of China into our country in this day in age. Chinese only exploit when they have to. Now that you're back on your little feet and not being "exploited" what happened to your friendship with the Natives? LOSER

          • School curriculum changes all the time. Every province is different. Every school and every teacher has different approaches. Just because it's not high school for you, doesn't mean it's not high school for other ppl. If you have a problem with this country's immigration policies, put some constructive feedback and let your MP know instead of calling ppl loser and blaming other ppl for your own failures. I was once told by a very wise gentleman that no failure is a failure, unless you fail to learn from that failure. And here u r, failing urself over and over again.

          • I haven't failed in life yet (knock on wood). I'm not racist, I just don't like to be around Asians who clearly dislike interacting with white people which is almost ALL of the Asians at UOFT.

          • I have friends who are First Nations (and knew two people at the Oka crisis). You talk as if Aboriginal people are history. First Nations live today. Mingle.

          • uh, I don't know what school you went to but I had History class form grade 8 to grade 10…uh…mo…ron..?

        • I dont understand why you think, you need to educate us on here with Canadian History.

          and yes as far as I can remember they used to teach about the Acadians, and early Canadain history in the 7th/ 8th grade.

          The British Empire was great because the work of the slaves and every non white person in their colonies was shipped off to London.

          • Because when you want to call yourself a Canadian, you should know its history and stop acting like the country was created the day before you landed here.

          • And you call yourself a Canadian???

          • I learned Canadian history in grade school, high school (Ontario) and college as well as French and French-Canadian Literature…a confusing history it is…why there's still land claims and separation issues.

            Don't see why Acadians are the analogy. Let's not forget many were kicked out of Canada by loyalists (who thought things were "too"… back then) and that's why we have Cajun in Louisiana. This is all about insecurity to compete in the world (and in Canada). Reminds me of the Toronto Maple Leafs who also have a illustrious history.

            If you play horrible hockey – or can't compete in school – you get the results you see. No point blaming the Habs or Asians. Even Leafs fans know this.

      • If the British came and messed things up, why do you think they should have special privileges? Why do you still speak English? Why are you so proud that the queen of another country is on our currency?

        • Because the British Empire was and still is amazing.

          • Chinese culture and history are amazing too.

          • Ok, so go learn it in China. We have ours here, you have yours there. What's the big fuss about? I'm sure many white people have lived in China but they don't start taking over all of your jobs and places in Universities – well actually how can they since there's a population of 1 Billion people which is absolutely disgusting, I don't even know how a country the size of China can possibly support the lives of that many people, you can't even keep it down with the restrictions on how many children you can have. You breed like rabbits and mice.

          • so go learn your British stuff in UK. If British and French can come to Canada, so can ppl of other nations. And we came through legal application, not troops. Stop hiding from reality. Asian ppl get the jobs and places in universities because of their capabilities and if you didn't get it, it's your own fault.
            When you compare one specific human race to animals, you are really nth but lesser of those animals yourself.

          • Just the way you wrote "UOFT" tells me you didn't go there! LOL

          • How? That's how I type it out all the time? I'm actually there right now If you'd like to come and have me spit in your face. I'm at the library, fourth floor, Mississauga Campus. Believe me, I got my education at UOFT.. sadly. It's a money hungry school full of immigrants. But like you Asians are saying, it's a competition right? You strive to the best, just like Britain, France and Spain strived to be the best, explore and colonize. Sorry China didn't strive for that……………

          • So wouldn't the "colonization" of schools by Asian students be something you fully support? Apparently, a UT education doesn't include lectures on logic and common sense. Then again, I highly doubt you went to UT. Being the homeless bum that hangs around campus libraries =/= an "education at UOFT"

          • then why don't you get the f*ck out of UofT if you dislike Asians so much

          • You keep on excluding people who were here before the British and French and people who were here along with the British and French (and that included the Chinese). I'd also urge you to look up how First Nations migrated into Canada. Guess where they came from?

            If you're about history – you have also omitted the Vikings – who came before the British and French. For someone who speaks like they know history – you seem to be missing a bit of history out of convenience.

            Hongkong was also a British Colony so – are you also saying Chinese people from a British colony don't belong in Canada?

          • Don't forget that only a small fraction of so-called white Canadians are British and French descended. The rest have origins in Ireland, Italy, Portugal, Germany, Greece, and Poland, to name a few. All of which were at some point considered "non-white".

          • and you must have been bred out of morons, a masterpiece indeed.

          • Ante you are both exceptionally unintelligent and clearly very bitter. Not only are you misinformed and irresponsibly quoting made up facts about history and demographics, but fighting over "who came here first" reeks of a desperate and ignorant attempt at excusing your own failures. Chinese Canadians are here to stay and succeed no matter how hard you kick and scream. And if you spent half the time keeping up with current events as you do spreading hate on online forums, you will realize that the Chinese Canadians "stealing" jobs you are going to help this country compete in an increasingly global economy, and in turn create jobs and feed people such as yourself.

          • The only reason the British had an empire was because they were trying to get to Asia, especially China, which was by far the world's greatest civilization at the time. Perhaps you should worship China then.

          • They were trying to find a cheaper way to get Tea and Spices because your broke asses were charging through the roof for such crap!

          • Didn't you just say that the British Empire is amazing? If they were so amazing, why did they need to go all the way to China for "crap"? Why didn't they just stay home?

          • Ask them! Doesn't mean the Empire wasn't amazing.

          • So are you saying it's okay to rob jewelery stores then? coz they ain't selling those diamond rings for cheap. and the robbers are only trying to find a cheaper way to get diamond rings.

          • They didn't rob China you idiot lol….. stop with your stupid stories! I'm going to go play some street hockey now like a real white kid should!

          • hahaha Wikipedia! What a good source, anybody can write anything on wikipedia. You're people probably switched it up!

          • i see… you just went in and deleted the section. You can delete it from one website, but you cannot delete history.

          • Sorry, I don't see it written anywhere! :(

          • well, I just un-deleted what you deleted. (see view-history tab, someone named Ante2222 deleted the passage that I was referring to, right after I pointed it out here, what a co-incidence!) What a coward if you can't even face part of British and French's unglorious part of history.
            And here is a copy of the passage in case if Ante does it again.
            "For most Chinese, and foreigners alike, the act of burning the palace was and is perceived as barbaric and criminal. Some contemporary Frenchmen, such as Victor Hugo, disapproved of the action; in his "Expédition de Chine", Hugo described the looting as, "'Two robbers breaking into a museum, devastating, looting and burning, leaving laughing hand-in-hand with their bags full of treasures; one of the robbers is called France and the other Britain."[16] In his letter Hugo hoped that one day France would feel guilty and return what it had plundered from China.[17]"

          • Obviously you can see edit's made to the page, I did it to get that exact reaction out of you hahaha, Thanks for that! Obviously the British did many things that are considered "immoral" in today's standards. Values and morals change throughout time. Look at Japan in world war II – Scum like Germany. Going around killing millions of Chinese people and more, but why? Because you weren't colonized or civilized properly. Long Live the British Empire!

          • Just this week the British Prime Minister brought a huge delegation of British businessmen to China to ask for deals worth billions of dollars. Who's laughing now?

            Britain and France are lucky that China prefers to send hordes of tourists, instead of looters, to Buckingham Palace and Versailles

          • You won't be laughing when the only way for you to keep food on the table is to call a hard-working Asian "boss" every day.

          • uh….WHAT british empire? It’s long gone buddy……

            ps

            please get back on your meds.

          • but I thought you said you were at the school library studying..

          • then why don't you go learn British history in Britain..

      • Ante, you should move. You don't belong in a country like Canada.

      • so….your point is…..you spend lots of money to show people you care about the Natives…right..

    • The Queen of England is on our coins ultimately because folks here didn't have the courage for revolution unlike the Americans for Independence. Also partly because the French didn't win their battle.

      Of any country i have seen, Canada is the most regionalized, unidentifable country i have ever seen. I have lived coast to coast. In Vancouver, no one thinks of Toronto. In Toronto, no one thinks of Vancouver. Likewise in Quebec and the Maritimes. I am bi-lingual French – English but few outside of Quebec speak French. I also agree First Nations people are heavily marginalized by people who think this is their country instead.

      The insecurity of Canadian identity in my opinion is the root of these issues tabled here. There is no self-confidence in who a Canadian is. A common theme in Canadian history and literature.

  473. Chinese people came here as early as other foreigners. You obviously don't know your Canadian history. Guess who helped build the railroad towards the last spike. And guess who fought a war for Canada to gain a right to vote in 1947.

    It seems like you are saying Non-Chinese have an entitlement to education because of race – over someone Chinese who was born and raised here. In South Africa, they called the Apartheid.

    • I know all about that. Chinese came because they couldn't find work in there country. The first Laundromat in Toronto was owned by a Chinese in 1800 something – don't worry just fix your own country and you wont have to emigrate.

      • Canada was not your country – no different than other foreigners, Chinese came because of opportunity… no different than the British or French. See "Gold Mountain."

        If you think like this – perhaps you should tell everyone including the British and French to go home and fix their own country and you wont have to emigrate. By your definition – this is not your country either.

  474. why are all the white parents are coming out and blaming asians for their kids' stupidity.

    it's embarrassing. please stop blaming other people for your own failure as parents

    maybe you should have spent more time with your kids and helping them with their homework instead of complaining on the Maclean's forum?

    • That's why Canada has been falling behind the rest of the world in innovation and productivity. Too many white parents believe that their kids are entitled to the very best jobs simply because they're white. As a result, too many top jobs in this country are filled by mediocre whites as the best and brightest non-whites are kept out of the best jobs and all the smart white Canadians are in the US or abroad.

  475. top universities would not be top universities if they let in undeserving party-loving whiners in.

    if you don't want to work for a good education then you can go to community college and shut up

  476. our beautiful and great country has some incredibly ignorant people living in it.

    • This is Canada for you!

  477. I can't believe how many white parents on here feel that their kids are entitled to the very best jobs simply because they're white. That's why Canada has been falling behind the rest of the world in innovation and productivity. Too many top jobs in this country are filled by mediocre whites as the best and brightest non-whites are kept out of the best jobs and all the smart white Canadians are in the US.

    • true. the best (ie doctors, top business students) get recruited in the US.

      i love Canada but I would probably work in the US to pay off my student loans

      • On of my my friends is graduating from his Masters this year and have found 4 job offers. 2 in the States in 2 in Canada. The Canadian jobs pay 60k and 65k while the ones in the US pay 90K and 120k. The salary difference is just too much for Canada to keep many of our brightest around.

    • Do you think these very white parents will hire you when you apply for a job in their organizations?

  478. Funny article.
    There will be more interesting topics for this funny author, such as "Too African (in sports)", "Too Canadian (in Ice Hocky)"… .
    Try to choose one and write in the same style, he can see the result.

  479. If you search on google, Findlay's cached LinkedIn page and it appears that she studied in Ottawa – most likely Carleton University's Journlism school. It says she did an Interen in 2009 which I suppose means that maybe she's been hired on full-time?

    • Thanks Canadian in US!

  480. Maybe they should invest in birth control then. And so should white people. People suck.

  481. Amen.

  483. I study engineering at the University of Waterloo. I don't know about the Math faculty, but I don't see Asian students work particular hard or get exceptionally high marks. Lot of "white" students are doing just as well as Asian students. What makes you think that any race have particular advantage in university??? The grading methods are strict and objective. Not drinking and partying everyday doesn't mean that students are not enjoying their university lives. Social interaction comes in many form. Things like student design team, and group studying counts too. University is not just about getting good grade. It's also about learning the skills you need to excel in the workplace. Of course that's require dedication to learn the materials properly.

  484. It's great that someone is actually looking at this, but I can't help think why say "Asian" when the author means "Chinese." There is only one point where the author even mentions two other ethnicities (Korean and Japanese) and that's in relation to how many "Asians" attend UBC. Every single student that was interviewed (apart from the white Canadian students) was Chinese (judging from their names).

    I'm sick and tired of this bullsh!t notion that somehow "Asian" adequately distinguishes individuals from East Asia. Is German culture the same as French or Dutch or English or Italian? It's as insulting and ignorant to group all "Asians" into one category as it would be to group all "Europeans." The cultures of China, Korea, Japan, the Philippines, etc have similarities, yes, but also so many differences as to make the term "Asian," at least in the context of this article, meaningless. It seems utterly absurd that the author of this article has the "courage" to discuss a topic like this, but is either too ignorant or too PC to say "Chinese" when she means Chinese.

    • From their use of the term "Asian", the authors do not even consider Asians as human beings. Asians – all oriental looking people – are just a wave of yellow peril taking up space in their precious universities, and hence lumping them altogether in one collective term, just like the dirt under their feet.

  485. The most fundamental reason for "too Asian" is the immigration policy Canada is taking. Because Canada only accepts the immigrating applicants with at least bachelor degrees, it is not strange why their children will go to universities.

    • The effort that Chinese/Korean-descended Canadian kids is nothing compared to the effort that kids in China/Korea have to put in. Compared to those places, Canada is paradise and I know it from first hand experience. Sucks to be those kids to laze around in school and who can't get into the university they wanted, though.

  486. This just seems a bit racist. What are the "tough conversations" Canada needs to engage in? The fact that they screen immigrants pretty well? What was the point of this article?

  487. I think that the most disburbing aspect of this article and all the debate that followed is that these venomous and racist sentiments are coming from perspective and current university students, as well as university graduates applying to professional schools. These are people who aspire to or have had higher education, not the so-called "red-necks". You would think that these future leaders of our society would be more cosmopolitan and open-minded than average, and yet they seem to the just the opposite. No wonder racism permeates through every single strata of our society right from the top to the very bottom. When people with knowledge and power act maliciously, the damage that they caused is far bigger.

  488. I find this article extremely backwards and offensive on many levels. It blatantly perpetuates a racial stereotype (painting Asian students as one homogeneous group with one set of characteristics), characterizes 'whiteness' (which it also stereotypes terribly) and the interests and behaviors of 'whites' as superior, and treats the high achievement of Asian students as a negative rather than a positive.

  489. My daughter is part Scottish – does that make her "Too Asian" in your eyes?

    Both my parents worked in college or university as professors and this story is clueless about which students reach the top.

    It's also a bit misleading to paint this as a China-driven story when it comes to Canadian universities. Having studied Chinese populations in Canada (and colleges) – the largest sub-group is born in Canada, the second largest sub-group is from Hongkong – when it was a British Colony, and the third largest subgroup is from Taiwan.

    China is booming and less and less people there have motivation to leave. If they do, they would consider the UK and US as most targeted university destinations. Most people in China don't know U of T. I am willing to bet this story is way off in terms of representation (statistically). I also agree this story is heavily stereotyped and acts as if no people exhibit these traits. My parents can tell you, people of all kinds work hard, over-achieve etc.

  490. In response to the author's statistic of UBC being 50% Asian and Vancouver being 20% asian, I'd like to point out that the percentage of youths that are Asian is much greater than 20%. Canada depends on immigration for population growth and the immigration of parents w/ their children and parents-to-be account for a significant part of Canada's population growth. For this reason the proportion of asians is much higher if you look at the population under the age of 20, let's say. The author clearly has a very limited understanding of Asians in Canada and he probably has no credentials to speak on this subject.

    • But then one of the authors studied at UBC!

  491. As a Chinese Canadian studying at U of T. I do admit there is a quite large East Asian population in Life Science and Commerce. But, please, go into any of the Liberal Arts or European studies class, you would be surprised to find any East Asian there. Get what I am saying?

    • Yep, but when I was in high school, most kids who applied to U of T were East Asian. Ditto with FOB….er, I mean Waterloo.

      See this blog post for an explanation:
      http://viewsofatorontogal.blogspot.com/2010/11/wh…

  492. Dear Macleans,

    Thank you for making a non-issue into a racist debate. Your reputation is now forever tainted. Also, next time you pull an article offline to make changes so that it appears 'less' racist, please issue an apology. We all know what you did.

    • Hi Kari,

      If you've ever been to a Canadian university campus (especially U of T), you would know this is definitely a major issue. It's practically mini China. So let's pull your head out of the sand shall we?

      • Hi Yours Truly,

        Thank you, well said!

      • If you've ever been to an NBA game, it's practically mini Africa.

        If you've ever been to Wall Street, it's practically mini Israel.

        Come on, I dare you to make such statements.

      • I am an Caucasian studying at U of T. Are you a U of T student as well? If you are, I feel sorry for you. You are an idiot. U of T is far from being mini China. In fact, it is a mini Korea, Japan, China, Israel, Iran, India, Italy, Scotland, Germany, and Sir Lanka…………..

      • So again, is it a problem that too many oriental looking people are studying in Canadian universities, and therefore white people do not like that? If so, say it directly. Why keep beating around the bush about high marks and social life, etc.? That is what I do not like about Canadian culture – highly racist and yet hypocritical. It is simply nauseating.

      • I go to UofT. And, Yours Truly, you are wrong about the demographic. Not a mini China at all. In fact, I'm not even sure what to call it. It's too mixed to say.

      • Mixed?? Haha I wish. I really do wish it was mixed.

        I do go to U of T. And, quite frankly, I wish I saw more Scots, Germans and Israelis. Because the student population is easily over 70% Asian, and I'm sure we'd all agree. And Ethan, why do you keep making our conversations about something it's not? NBA and Wall Street have nothing to do with this, so drop it.

        I'm just sad that my father, his father, and his father built this country and my kid won't get to attend the same schools as his ancestors simply because of a swelling Asian population and their dominating culture.

        I'm not racist, simply a realist who is proud of this heritage and would like to see 100% REAL diversity.

  493. Egad, what a moronic piece of writing! I honestly cannot even begin to list the number of fallacies present within its text.

    I am a high school student currently residing in Toronto, which may easily be deemed one of the world's most multicultural cities. Furthermore, I'm studying under a rigorous programme alongside a large group of Asians. Lastly, I am Czech by origin, and Canadian by birth.

    The person whom I consider to be my closest friend is Chinese; he moved here approximately four years ago. In fact, my friends are, for the most part, Asian; the vast majority of them are Chinese. Many of them work meticulously and determinedly to achieve their dreams; it is absolutely absurd to suggest that they do so in a narrow-minded and socially problematic fashion. I am affectionately termed [i]the[/i] nerd within each of my close friendships – I, if anyone, have troubles embracing social living, problems balancing work with fun. My Chinese friends are amongst the most socially adept and amiable people that I've ever met.

  494. To conclude, then – this article, I find, is genuinely insulting to both of the aforementioned groups. It portrays Asians as societally incompetent inhabitants of darkened laboratories, and Caucasians as lazy, intellectually dormant party-goers. I cannot even venture to ponder what the author(s) was/were thinking at the time of writing. Such supremely crafted idiocy is not often to be found associated with as supposedly renowned a magazine as this one. I congratulate you.

  495. Dear Stephanie Findlay and Nicholas Köhler,
    Look at yourselves in the mirror. Do you represent the demographic that you oh-so-bluntly write about? The article is based on a handful of people from an immensely large racial population. How can you claim to understand this culture, their tradition or the mindset from simply quoting a few ungrateful kids?
    This is racist in that while it doesn't look down upon a particular ethnic group, it grossly stereotypes a very rich culture to be shallow. Not all Asian parents force education down kids' throats. In fact, most of them are too busy making a living or understand and respect their children's opinions. Do NOT write about Asian moms and dads you see in the media.
    Choosing girls from Havergal, an exclusive all-girls' private school, will not do you justice to your article. Because honestly, when you're born with a silver spoon stuck to your mouth, you're bound to be unhappy with anything and everything. And what's wrong with being successful, and what's your definition of success. You're generalizing and frankly, as journalists, you should know better. It may be a surprise to you, but Asians, too, are individuals. Don't group Asians as a clump.
    Do you really have nothing to write about?

    • Hahaha as much as I dislike this article, your comment has absolutely no grounds, because you're an ignorant idiot who is in fact generalizing about havergal! It's exclusive because they look for girls who are academically talented and show leadership potential as well as qualities that will help them thrive in the challenging enivironment. Yes there are girls that attend private schools who are wealthy. are all of them "born with a silver spoon stuck to your mouth"? No. So your generalizing, ignorant hypocritical ass has no grounds for calling out macleans for generalizing.

      If this helps educate your poor ignorant mind, I'm white, but am the first person in my family ever to go to private school AND am on partial scholarship.

  496. Man, Macleans just can't print ANYTHING about race, culture, sexual persuasion, creed, or musical preference without being accused of being racist/bigotted/homophobic/etc. I say, continue the great, creative, and thoughful work Macleans!

  497. Then you work for it. If you don't deserve the space, you don't get the spot. Simple as that. Taking in undeserving students only undervalues education.

  498. Plus, it's not because liberal arts students can't get into Commerce or Engineering my son, it's because they are interested in liberal arts

  499. Your comment made me laugh. You think asians are monopolizing? do you know why? because you didn't get off your lazy ass and study as hard as they do. You are simply incompetent. University isn't charity, you don't beg for spots. You earn it. "we need spaces there too" . Well if you want space, go for it. It's all fair game. Marks talk.

    • Rich Daddies from the other side of the world talk. And louder.

  500. My cousins, nieces and nephews are part-Jewish, does that make them "Too Asian?"

  501. People who are confident, compete, and don't use crutches don't blame others or say there's too many people of a certain origin. Is the NHL "too European"? Do you avoid a hockey team because it's too French, or too European or has too many languages…or blame non-Canadians taking spots on the Toronto Maple Leafs…how many is acceptable before it's "too" many…i can only imagine that insecure people think like this.

    • Can people quit it with the hockey comparisons, please? It's getting old and it's a stupid comparison. And embarrassingly "Canadian".

      • Would you rather i reference Canadian Literature, reply in French, or cite some of Canada's greatest films?

    • This is Canada for you – this so-called happy multicultural family! Racism permeates through every single facet of life and there are colour lines and bars everywhere with a strict racial hierarchy. This kind of colonial-style social mentality is not limited to Canada, but also exists in settler colonies like the US, Australia, New Zealand, etc. The whites know that these countries were effectively stolen from the native inhabitants, and are therefore constantly insecure about maintaining their dominance, i.e. because they stole the land from someone by barging in, they are afraid that other groups can pull the rug beneath them as well. This is the deepest fear that they have, and therefore they are so upset about the large number of Asians (aka Chinese) students in their universities.

      Did you see the photograph at the beginning of the article? There is a flag of China. They are impliciting saying that they do not care where you were born or what your citizenship is, as long as you look oriental, you are associated with China, i.e. a foreigner!

  502. Well this is embarrassing!
    Maclean's is a magazine that supposedly represents Canada. And what does Canada represent? Diversity.
    I think I can safely say that this article just spat on Canada's values.

  504. Great. A lazy article that simply confirms racist tendencies with vague notions of 'race' that somehow justifies everything. Indeed, use some high school kid's myopic vision as your premise and to demonstrate the oversimplification and gross negligence on… to probably exaggerate here…. on everything.
    This is just horrible writing, poor research if any, gross simplification and racist notions, and even with all that – it doesn't even begin to touch on fundamental issues behind this such as education policies and values, but talks about perception of booze and what not. Utter trash and simply inexcusable.

  505. Rembrance Day – I remember when Chinese in Canada weren't allowed to enter the same professions as other Canadians – including ones referenced in this article. I remember when Chinese were not allowed to vote in Canada before 1947 (excluded for decades and paying head taxes for being Chinese). I remember when Chinese fought a war for Canada when Chinese didn't have to in WWII (even after being denied Canadian citizenship, and after building the railroad towards the last spike).

    And if you look back in history, there are many "Too Asian" stories….when Japanese were interned (property seized), and when Chinatown businesses were rioted for being "Too Asian."

    You, however, won't find any stories talking about too many of other races in Canadian universities when other ethnicities dominated Canadian universities.

    • Remembrance Day (typo)

    • Isn't the conclusion quite clear? Canadians do not like Asians, period. That is why other ethnicities have never generated any controversies. Canada, especially BC, to Asians is what the US Deep South is to the Blacks.

      When the Japanese were rounded up during WWII, they were given the choice of going back to Japan or entering concentration camps. If the same happens to the Chinese, which I think is a definitely possibility given the current atmosphere, I would definitely leave. The article is very alarming because I have read similar articles written against Jews in the German press in 1930s. They just sound hauntingly similar.

      • You're taking this ridiculously far. The article raised a legitimate concern for ALL Canadian students, and you are trying to portray yourself as a victim. It's not that "Canadians do not like Asians," that is a completely generalized statement, and you are just as bad as you say the article is.

        • There was legitimised anti-Semetism in Canada in the 1930s. Fascist political movements attracted thousands to their rallies. There were riots against Jewish-owned stores. Don't think this can't happen here.

          • And do not forget that the Canadian government of the time refused to admit Jewish refugees from Europe fleeing Nazi persecution. This is quite conveniently forgotten by our dear "mainstream media".

          • If you clearly despise canada and all it's history that you are googling, why are you here? I don't mean that rudely, I'm really asking you. PS that was 65 years ago, do you expect it to still be on the news?

          • Because you haven't given back the money you stole from him?

        • Yes Canadians don't like Asians. Didn't you know that the Chinese Exclusion Act and Japanese internment were government enacted? What is the legitimate concern for ALL Canadian students? The article is saying that there are too many Asian students. What is wrong with people that they must absolutely deny that racism exists to their last dying breath? Just because some people play the race card doesn't mean it isn't legitimate for others.

          • so… you're saying ALL canadians don't like asians? Aren't some canadians asian? Do they "not like" asians? The article is saying (some) asian students aren't integrating well into Canadian universities, (which isn't good for any students) and also that (some) non-asian students slack off too much (also not good for any student) I go to school with people who refuse to speak english, and also people who sit in class on facebook. Both problems. I have no problem at all when people from other cultures coming to Canada, but it does bother me when they don't learn the language, and continue to speak only their own. As for "Fascist Political Movements"… that is hardly what this article is.

          • Do you know that many of those students whom you have met will be going back to their own country after graduation? They aren't immigrants. They are visa students. Why do you expect them to speak English all the time when clearly Canada isn't their homeland?

          • Why are they here if Canada isn't their homeland, and they have no interest in learning about Canada and it's culture and language? legal immigrants don't bother me at all. It's people who come here and flood the schools, and then use their educations obtained here to contribute to their own country.

          • Because you greedy Canada wants their money. International students pay a hefty tuition fees while receiving the education, sitting next to your White racist Canadian butt.

          • First of all, not much in that sentence made sense, grammatically. Secondly, if you are that unhappy here, and feel that threatened, take that hefty tuition on home.

          • How about you give us back the money first? Don't forget to tell people not to come to your country before they get on the airplane.

          • Oh, ok, let me just get your money out of my wallet, because you know, it WAS me personally who took it from you. Aren't you supposed to be the smart one?

          • If you think you own Canada and all those Canadian universities, be my guest.

          • I have seen white people who write worse grammar, trust me. I know. You see, you aren't born with good English language because of your white skin.

          • Well, if you've seen other people who "write worse grammar" (that's incorrect grammar as well) then it's ok! And isn't referring to my white skin racist? Oh, lord, I'm such a victim!

          • Canadians go abroad for their PhDs too, that's the nature of higher education. The Canadians i know in other countries for post-grad don't speak native tongues yet.

          • We speak English to you. Would you be angry if some Quebec or France French student speak French to each other? Or do they have to speak English in front of you?

          • Of course they would be! The English and the French are at each other's throat in the country. Look at Ottawa and Montreal and you see this play out every day.

          • If french people are speaking in front of me, (which rarely happens) it's usually two of them, not an entire bus of people speaking french, or an entire classroom.

          • Move to Quebec and you will see.

          • If I WANTED to be surrounded by the french language (which I also speak because I am Canadian) I WOULD move to Quebec.

          • Is that why all those French people stay in Quebec? They are so afraid to live in the rest of Canada because you English-speaking White people are "Too English".

            Do you blame the French Canadian for not mingling with your English White people?

          • "You english speaking white people." Yep, and Caucasian Canadians are the racist ones.

          • Non-denial denial?

          • And French is an official canadian language. Yep, those poor victimized Quebec citizens… all just trapped in their houses, afraid of us "English White People". PS some french people are white, and some english people are not white. I know you probably don't have any interest in culture here, so I thought I would fill you in.)

          • French is an official canadian language? Yeah, and the aboriginals are the most respected Canadian, too. They can only speak English now, I wonder why? What happened to their native language?

          • I really love when people have no basis for their own present arguments, so they have to dig up the entire history of Canada to find something to use. Yes, what people did to Native communities was wrong. Does that mean that we, now, should let other cultures and languages do the same thing? If you want to argue about this, talk about something relative.

          • Do you know about the The Language Laws of Quebec, you English white person?

          • Oh, I'm so impressed by your googling skills, PMSing non English White girl.

          • Actually, I heard some English-speaking white people whined about it on CBC.

          • Why are you watching TV, shouldn't you be studying?

          • I would also like to fill you in that there has been a modern independence movement in Quebec since 1960s. English and French Canadians are definitely not one big happy family. Have you been to Montreal, Ottawa or Moncton? In these cities, anglophones and francophones are self-segregated residentially, at school and even at work.

          • Maybe's it's because i speak 6 languages, but when I'm in Little Italy, i don't have a problem with friends speaking only Italian (a language i dont know). Sometimes i take it as an opportunity to learn a new language.

            In an ever globalizing world, multi-lingual skills will be paramount to get ahead in life. When we watch the World Cup, we don't have a problem of people celebrating in their own language. Why is there a problem at an institution of higher learning?

            If you ask your professor, they will also tell you if you plan to go for an even higher education – you might be required to learn new languages. Not liking another language is like not liking Math or coding as a language. I get people can be afraid of other languages, but why is it a problem?

          • I speak French fluently. I am a #habs fan. ;)

          • What is the problem if people around you speak a language that you do not understand? Why would that bother you? When I went to a lecture at university, I could care less what other people were doing in class or what languages they spoke. Are you listening to the lecturer and really paying attention in class? This is just so odd. I do not understand Canadian culture, and probably never will.

          • We live in a country with more than one official language. Why is there something wrong with speaking another language other than English?

        • Of course I am a victim of racism, so what?

          • Well then everyone on this planet can call themselves a victim of racism.

          • Why do some people always think race is everything and only thing that matters?

          • Canada is such a society. Everything is defined by racial lines that permeates through and through. There is a lot of hidden and unsaid rules about what you can do or are not expected to do according to your race and ethnic background. Even among whites, there is a strict hierarchy. For example, many an old established Anglophone families (les anglophones de souche in Quebec French… I love this term) would be up in arms if their children marry, say, a Canadian of Polish or Serbian descent. People like Asians and blacks are at completely beyond the pale at the very bottom of this racial hierachy.

            In sociological terms, Canada is a classical case of a colonial society in which one's social status cannot be fully defined by economics terms, but by one's promixity to the ruling culture, which is that of the anglophones de souche. The most interesting feature of a colonial society is that the ruling class needs not be in majority, and in fact they are often the absolute minority by population but yet yields enormous power in the allocation of resources of the country. Do not fool by the dwinding proportion of Canadians of British origins in the population, their power is undiluted. The French tries to approximate this power and have therefore locked in a bitter fight with the anglophones since the 1960s.

          • Reminds me of European feudalism

          • According to you funny North American logic, yes.

        • why should the color of skin be a concern – that's what i will never get. Why should a person who is different be a concern? why should everyone who has that color of skin be deemed the same type of person?

    • For God's sake, check your facts – China was just as involved in WWII as Canada. Do you not remember the Japanese invasion of China? Or the USSR/China front? Jeez…

      • I think you misinterpret what i wrote. Chinese born and raised in Canada – denied Canadian citizenship – fought WWII for Canada. That's how Chinese born in Canada got the right to vote in 1947. Has nothing to do with China.

  506. This article is a piece of sh!t. Is your website running low on hits Macleans? Look at how many comments you generated. Too bad I did't click on your ad. And yea, blaming your own incompetence on other peoples hard work is the way to go white people.

    • Don't be racist against us white people, because I'm not about you. The author is. And, quite frankly, I don't like your attitude. I regret my grandfather shipping yours over to build his railroad.

  507. “When Alexandra and her friend Rachel, ……………. suit Alexandra. She now studies at U of T”

    Did anybody notice this? Macleans are such dorks. Stupid nerds.

    All the media is the same. “oooo, let's start the article with ‘real' Canadians, and end the article with ‘real' Canadians, oooo, we're sooo cool, so hip, so with-it, oooo ………”

    (now imagine I am chanting that like Stewie on Family Guy, my voice dripping with sarcasm).

    Macleans, you are morons.

    I hate the friggin media. They are so predictable. Everything they write is according to a formula.

    So this one, what you do is — when you have a long and complicated article about a serious and potentially disturbing topic — make sure you have a ‘real' Canadian who you can quote. Who has a name. Who starts your article, and ends your article.

    Ha-ha, Macleans, you thought we didn't notice? You thought we, the reading public, are too stupid to see through your ‘formula' journalism?

    Gimme a break.

    And give us some credit. Not all your readers are mindless nitwits with a Grade-8 education, who you can feed oatmeal journalistic fodder to, simply to increase advertising sales and charge higher ad rates to Macleans' clients.

    • Umm… you can't really criticize a journal article when you just used the words "dorks, stupid, friggin, oooo, cool, with-it, morons, gimme," and then inserted a ridiculous cartoon personality. I suggest you go into a career other than persuasive writing.

      • When the article is fully deserving of being called those names, you can't blame others when they point it out.

        • You're so right, name-calling will really sort out the issues at hand.

  508. We supposedly live in a free society – one that espouses free enterprise. I guess such freedoms in the views of some do not apply equally to every race in Canada.

    But are we really saying that independence or progress today is manufactured by entitlement?

  509. what a great picture you paint of UWO -seriously you hit it on the head! was there from 2001-2005 -what a cookie cutter community! not open to anything different than Ugg boots and Tiffany jewelry…ah nauseating then and still is!

  510. The American situation is almost comical. It's disingenuous to first use merit as a way of keeping out minorities (prior to forced integration by the courts), then cast aside merit based entry when it would go against an influx of minorities. Stated lightly, it is resistance to change; cast more insidiously, it is racial oppression.

    • Voters in a few states have passed laws specifically barring racial or ethnic quotas in universities. Immediately, the proportion of Asian students in their universities rocketed. Coincidence? I think not.

  511. Wow. From this article I can tell certain two "journalists" who parties little too much during their university years…

    • From the look of your English maybe you should have been studying more too.

  512. I'm sorry, if white people wanna get into good universities, party less and study more.

    So these kids are expecting a spot in universities without equal amount of effort as the asians. do they think they deserve special treatment for being white ???

    Asians who were born in Canada are as canadian as white people. Something that white people never seem to realize, you guys are immigrants too, just immigrated many generations ago. If you are white, are you suddenly more canadian then an asian???

    It's true that Asians study harder than white people. Of course this is generalization as well, but this is mostly true. its unfair how asians must be criticized and discriminated upon for trying hard and being smart.

    • Yes, unfortunately that is exactly what some people are saying. They are saying that whites are deserving of special treatment because of their race. They are saying that Canada as a nation was built up by whites (they seem to have forgotten who built the railroads) and therefore as descendants of these original white founders, they should be given special privileges not allowed to others.

      • GET A LIFE. We all know that this article is going to spark a big "oh no, asians have found a way to be portrayed as victims…how can we compensate?" Quit worrying about it. Maybe you should read the article again.

        • "Get a life"… do you mean getting drunk, spreading your legs or spreading other people's legs? That is what you mean by life and fun, right, according to the article?

          • Yes, "Chesterfield." I literally meant get off the computer and go "spread other people's legs". (what does that even mean?) And for someone who is all in an uproar about the untrue facts being portrayed in the article, you're pretty quick to assume that the facts about white people are true.

          • And I'm pretty sure Chinese people are the masters of spreading their legs, considering there are 1.3 billion chinese people, so I wouldn't be pointing your finger at Canadians.

          • Where do white babies come from? What? Your parents are deadbeat?

          • Umm… pretty sure you are confused, little one. The point was about the vast amount of people. Perhaps you should only participate in conversations that you can keep up in. And why are you associating canadians with white skin? Ooooo you so racist.

          • If the authors did not associate Canadians with white skin then this article would not even be written.

    • wanna is not a word.

    • Wow. White people are sure touchy, especially when they are their racism and white privilege are pointed out.

      • It is their regime, after all.

  513. Macleans simply do not believe that Asian students are able to study hard AND socialize at the same time! I can tell you, I hang out with my friends, involve in school clubs, and I keep up my grades. I do everything that the other young adults do.

    The Macleans must understand a fact, cultural assimilation is not a one way phenomenon. At the same time that Western culture is assimilating the Asian groups, we are also assimilating them!

    The world is getting smaller, and the Western society cannot always stay in its own little hole! Please come out and use your eyes and hearts to actually feel the change!!

  514. Congratulations Macleans, now all Asian students are nerds with no life. Nice work.

  515. This has created such a controversy.

  516. Gotta love how Canada tries to blame the US for their problems, LOL. Hey psst, Canada, guess what? YOU’RE RACIST AND THE US HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

    • Actually, they think they are BETTER than the USA in terms of racism, hate and stereotype. But the truth?
      Pot calling kettle black.

      • White Canadians just hide their racism and pretend it doesn't exist. White Americans are more honest about it.

    • I totally agree with all three of you.

  517. what we should complaint is not too many Asians who work hard but too many native white who don't work hard but party and drink too hard.
    Also, had you been an Asian university before. It is a totally atmosphere. They party and drink even harder than white canadians here. Those two groups may do an exchange program to see how to party and drink in Asia.

    • You are totally right….It's not like Asian people can't party and drink….I believe that Korean ppl actually drink a lot!

  518. May I suggest to the writer to let me know which degree and from which university you are graduate from,I presume u get them from degree mill couse how u are graduate never study but partying and play sport all day lon,I suggest Maclean HR to double check them????????

    • Do a quick search on the Internet and you will see that Stephanie Findlay studied at UBC and is now an intern with Maclean's. I cannot find any information on the other author regarding where he studied.

  519. As a 4th year UBC commerce student I've come to see that many of the conclusions of this article are true. As one of the few students who managed to attain a job in the capital markets, a quick count of the racial demographics of this group shows that the majority placed value on being social students, and no surprise, are not Asian. To be quite frank, in any field but science, this shouldn't be a surprise since, believe it or not, 99.9% of jobs require more than sitting in your room alone for 15 hours a day memorizing the dictionary.

    • That's not social. That is called the quid pro quo White Boy's club.

      • Dedede, why are you in Canada????? You do realize that YOU ARE RACIST don't you? Call your daddy, and get him to book you a flight home. Seriously. And no, not because of the colour of your skin, because you are a complete idiot, who is so eager to be a victim.

        • I really wonder why anybody would still come to this country from Asia in 2010. This is a sinking ship, and will go down like Argentina and the like 30 years ago.

        • Now you persecute me for telling the cliche?

    • I don't see many white chicks in the capital markets, either.

    • I used to work in the financial industry, too. I know what you mean, and I think that is the reason why the financial industry in Canada is so primitive when compared to NY, London and HK. Most of the brightest with real knowledge that I know have left for NY. I imagine that most of the Asian students in your field are now working in Hong Kong.

    • Which firm do you work for – are you in equities? Or debt? Or other? I know plenty of Asians who might be your boss. I don't think they'd appreciate this comment.

    • I also want to note David Lam, an Asian, gave to your school (why the commerce library is named after him) and is a well known investment figure in BC. He was also Lt. Governor of BC. Robert Lee who is Asian was once chancellor of your school and has a renown investment portfolio. So does Milton K. Wong. If you were good enough to be in the Portfolio Management Society – which allows UBC students to invest funds – you will also know hat initiative was started up by someone Asian (and benefited many non-Asians with real life experience). Instead of talking about your racial preferences…how well is your portfolio doing?

      • Chung, you are one racist SOB.

        • I speak six languages, been to 20 countries, and lived in four continents. Which race are you referring to?

  520. This ain't fair. What's wrong with us Chinese? I mean it's not like we're working robots. Sure we're hard working, but we like to go out some time. I like to socialize. But I also like to learn how the world works. That's why we work so hard in class. We aren't maths robots. We don't spend 8 hours studying everyday. I pretty much like my life so far. I like to learn. I like school life. I don't like drinking. IS the only reason people go to parties because of the alcohol? Well I don't know because this doesn't happen much in Hong Kong. And I don't know anyway because I'm only 12. I wouldn't even like to think of really hardcore parties. Just because we study a lot, doesn't mean we have not skills! I have a brother, who likes to play StarCraft, is a really good cook, sing, plays the guitar well, is enthusiastic on learning Wing Chun, but he doesn't party. But he has a LIFE. These people seem to think the only people who have a life are the people who drink and party all the time. He's going to University in the Canada or America very soon. And we're Asian. Why can't people just think OUTSIDE their own little narrow minds? And think about it. I'm a Chinese living in HKSAR and I can speak perfect English.

    • I grew up in Hong Kong too and have been living in Canada for 20 years. The culture here is very different and they have a funny way of defining what is "cool". Enjoying studying or school is definitely not "cool" over here. The overall quality of the universities in Canada is rather low, barring a few exception like University of Toronto which is mentioned in this article. I would recommend that you and your brother should continue your high education in the UK or the US rather than Canada. Perhaps it is a good idea to talk to your school career officer for more information.

      • To Chesterfield and A. pl: I've read a lot of your comments and you are both clearly miserable here. Instead of complaining constantly about it, why don't you just get the f out?

        • I will be soon…. fingers crossed :-)

    • It isn't that Asian culture, Asian food, Asian art, Asian technology etc isn't cool. White people love all of those things and consume them. White people love mixed martial arts, eating sushi and sashimi, playing video games from Japan etc. Its jus that they don't like Asian PEOPLE. This is called cultural appropriation. In fact, white people love all things Asian, except they hate and disrespect Asian people. Just look at all the movies that Hollywood is making that come from Asian ideas, except that they've replaced the Asian characters with white ones. Be proud of your Asian heritage and don't let whites take that away from you. They've been doing it for over a 100 yrs now, but people are fighting back.

      • They are all like that. I remember a comment made by a Quebec anglophone around the time of the Quebec referendum in 1995. He said that, "Quebec is a lovely province and the French has a wonderful culture, but French-Canadians are really a pain in the neck!"

  521. How many times do I have to say this? People who think the girls are completely racist know VERY LITTLE about culture at private schools, especially those with boarding. What they're saying has NOT changed since *I* was applying for university 13 years ago. At BSS, the vast majority of girls who chose U of T were Asian while others left the city to go somewhere else. To many of the Asian girls, going to U of T was as much "going away" as if they went to Queen's or Western. Why? They were visa students from Hong Kong or Taiwan. As for courses: yeah, there were courses that were predominantly Asian (Advanced Placement/Intensive OAC Calculus, for example), while others (Writer's Craft, Modern Western Civilization) were not. Do you guys not GET IT?

    • I think most of us got that idea. It's not the fact that there are a lot of Asian or any one point out that fact that bothers people. It's the fact the because there are a lot of Asians, these people feel that they shouldn't choose to go there that creates the issue. Wouldn't that be the same as people choosing not to come to Canada because it was too white? or too Native? Think about it.

  522. Well said and well written! Love reading your post!

  523. Maclean. You are a shame

    USA and Japan became the leaders in technology and economy through their well established higher education system that pumped out TONS of highly qualified UNIVERSITY graduates from the HARD DEGREES which then lead to innovation and the birth of silicon valley and whole bunch of other industry.

    Canada has the WORST percentage of UNIVERSITY EDUCATED adults in developed countries that is a shame, which is reflected upon our poor track record of innovation and productivity. Yet there are those cry babies and so called "expert" ( I laugh at you) criticizing parent's decision of sending their kids to hard university degrees because yeah the last thing we need is tons of graduates from useless easy degrees that end up being jobless.

    • I agree with you. To me, university is the place to pursue academic exellence. If you are not even interested in studying, why do you want to go to university? Just for partying? It is not even logical. There are lots of people in the world studying part-time while working. They are the ones who really do not have a life, and are they socially inept?

      • I agree. If you'd rather party than study, don't go. But this article makes white people sound like dumb frat kids. I myself am a true white Canadian, and have studied both engineering and politics in two of the country's top schools (UofT being one of them). Whites are just as smart, but trouble is the Asian population is booming much faster than whites – and therefore there are MANY more of them. This population swelling doesn't give many white people the chance they deserve.

        • Then probably you should start restricting the number of Asians to be admitted to universities. Isn't that exactly what this article is trying to say?

      • Chesterfield, don't you have a job? Get off the internet.

        • Getting irritated by me? hahaha

  524. This is just racism! We all should watch a video again. go youtube and search for Jane Elliott.
    [youtube Cx3v5okNztM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cx3v5okNztM youtube]

  525. I think that the administration of the University of Toronto should take this article seriously – once your university is being stigmatized as an "Asian school", the future prospects of your past and future graduates are doomed, regardless of whether they are Asian or not. The market value of your diplomas will take a big discount and in turn future students will avoid your university like a plague.

  526. "Too Asian?" What next? Are you going to say the Internet is "Too Asian?" or that Maclean's magazine has one too many Asians?

    • What is the next step? It is not hard to guess. The intent of this article is to create some "public opinion" against Asians so as to restrict their admission to Canadian universities.

      • Well, we can only hope.

  527. That's why for grad school, scholarships and professional schools things other than grades are also looked at. I am in a professional program and I can tell you that over half of my class are non-white. And yes, we went through interviews, essay writing, submitted our C.V, reference letters….etc in the application process. And do we study hard? yes, but not just the Asian students, the White students too. And nobody thought my program is too Asian, because everybody who got accepted truly deserved it. If Canadian universities have racial quota like some American universities, a lot of these deserving individuals would be denied from their spots. And who's lost is that? Canada's society as a whole.
    This article failed to compare the % of Asian students in programs that solely look at grade and that of programs that also look at other stuff as well. If the authors do a bit more research into that before writing, they would not think that Asians are only good at studying like a robot.
    And beer-drinking is not the only way to socialize. There are healthier and wiser choices of relaxation.

  528. It's a well-known fact that PhD students are advised to go to a different school for diversity and sometimes required to learn new languages for higher education. Perhaps some undergrads aren't really going to school for higher education and only going for the status of their race or personal comfort.

  529. How many makes 1 too many Asians?

  530. It is a fact that most Asians want to leave Asia and go to North America. It is a valid inference that hard work does not make a country a nice place to live. Preserving North American quality of life is not compatible with cradle to grave work and the single minded (and selfish) pursuit of personal gain. How can this obsession with grades allow people to share common values, such as the environment ? Obviously a look at Asian countries confirms it does not. "Too much work makes Jake a dull boy". The world needs people who think for themselves and the universities are not helping if all they want are increasingly meaningless grades.

    • Most Asians want to leave Asia for North America? I am not so sure. Lots of second and third generation Asians are leaving North America for Asia for good because they do not want to stay in this sinking ship.

      • Join them .

        • Sure!

    • Most Asians in university are Canadian.

      • Hmm..That's true…I am an asian-canadian. I went to University of Sydney for exchange for one term. They have way more international Chinese students than UBC..

  531. next article from Maclean’s should be:

    “Too White: How Western and Queen’s reputation for partying deters bright applicants”

    Featuring an interview with Alexandra….

  532. I totally agree with you there should be a study on drinking at western! I currently go to UWO and the drinking is out of hand. The university should really address it. I mean the students are academically smart but the lifestyle is insane. They are like alcoholics sometimes. Western is a good school and i have met some really nice people but it is like a high school sometimes. Some of the students really need to grow up but I am only in my second year so maybe the maturity level gets better as people approach their 4th year. You just have to join clubs and other activities so that you can meet people who aren't so into the drinking.

  533. I teach my daughter about both her Scottish heritage and Asian heritage – and the merits of individualism. This is about the most shameful thing she can read: People prejudiced towards someone's heritage – and believing everyone who is Asian is the same type of individual. If this article is truly about having a life, respecting individualism, why call every Asian the same? And why put down someone else's way of doing things? Why even call Asians in university from Asia? Most Asians in universities are Canadian. My daughter was born in Canada. Is she not Canadian too?

    People who complain like this really need to step it up. You won't go anywhere in life like that.

    “I am no different than you, and you are no different than me”

  534. A friend of mine who is Asian graduated from UoT and was a student rep. I wonder what journalism training these reporters had to fact check. She also traveled the world back-packing in Ecuador after going to Engineering Science. Obviously we all look the same to these reporters.

    • I think what's very dangerous from this article is that idea that "all Asians look the same." I've read many of your comments and what resonates to me is your definite concern about having to prove yourself over and over again because of your skin colour. I wholeheartedly agree: my fear is that with articles like these, all Asians (which is Chinese according to these authors) are one-dimensional characters, regardless of socioeconomic status, educational background, citizenship, (the list goes on). Unfortunately as long as articles like these are being published, employers, colleagues, and strangers will see the colour of our skin (or last names) before anything else.

  535. so the purpose of this article is to say, lets look at race instead of academic achievement? are you people north of us really that stupid? this article is garbage. if a man is able to come into YOUR country, assimilate, and OUT DO you, i believe that you are doing something wrong. darwinism would suggest you will be weeded out of existence. GOOD RIDDANCE!

    • Go eat some fast food. If you actually read the article, you would see that it is about what's happening in the UNITED STATES and that it may start to happen here. And it is about how some Asians ARE NOT assimilating. You are proof that darwinism doesn't exist anymore.

      • why is that a news story? I can list all sorts of non-Asians who are not assimilating. Additionally, Maclean's also picked on the French by saying Quebec is the most corrupt province.

      • Why do we want to assimilate into this country which is on the verge of national bankruptcy? The US is even worse – they cannot repay their national debt and will bring Canada down with them.

  536. Ante’s words are really disgusting.It is obvious that you have deep psychological and social problems.Why do you even try to defend your nonsense beliefs when you clearly see how many people are on your opposite side!!!!!

    • Opposition shouldn't have anything to do with people's opinion. Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, despite how many people do not agree. Your comment is a waste of space.

      • If everybody's free to say what he wants,then my comment shouldn't be a waste of space.Have you even thought about what you said?

    • Most people on here are asian, so of course they are swaying the opinion.

      • Maybe most people on here have more common sense.

    • Ante is very representative of the true colour of white Canadians.

  537. Now after a few days have gone by. I re-visit this article again, and can still see a very biased and ill-intented article (about both Asian students and non-Asian students, i.e. white students). It is most unfortunate that a magaize like Maclean's couldn't see the obvious racial prejudiced content of this article. Maybe, "freedom of speach" has confused the editors of Maclean's. Mississippi is still burning! On the other hand, however, it is fortunate that most people in our socienty, white and non-white, are sill conscientious enough to tell what is right and what is wrong.

    • I feel the same way. The more you re-read this article, the more racist it feels.

  538. This article is absolutely ludicrous. Work hard, concentrate on school, get a university spot. It's as simple as that. Get drunk, party, and don't. It makes sense, does it not?

  539. If you're a Havergal Old Girl, then you probably would know that Alexandra and Rachel are correct in saying that U of T is where the Asian girls go. As I've said over and over in this article, that was true of BSS when I graduated in 1998.

    • Cynthia – It has been 12 years since you graduated from the private school system, and BSS is not Havergal. I'm not sure how you yourself can generalize where the recent graduates of Havergal College go.

  540. Shame on rogers communications and macclean magazine! the article is nothing but telling that you asian can not go to universities in canada coz your scores are too high and our (white) canadian kids can't compete with you because of that…

    Do editors at macclean on this article suggest that asian students are not part of (white) canadians, thus asian student deserve some jobs at chinatown in the future? will that make you satisfied?

  541. Why should i have to defend myself for being "Asian" while other people get to live their lives.

    • Take it easy bro…fortunately majority of canadian people are sober and know what is wrong with this article

      • Agree with you there. Some of the comments make me wonder how some people even got accepted into university. I guess they don't screen applicants for their intolerance.

        • This is the most scary part. These people are the so-called elites of our society and yet they are deeply racist. You are not talking about "rednecks" or the uneducated. These people go to exclusive private schools and top universities and will one day be in positions of power. Can you imagine what the future of Asians will be in this country?

  542. western is an asian filled school. haha

  543. Complications

    The double-edged sword of racial or any complications
    Trying to grind one while the other cuts you
    Whose culture and values of which nations
    What is the true Canadian view and the respect to that due

    By the god that keep our land for neighborly loveor hatred
    Am I Asian or am I white
    Do I bleed blue or plain old red
    Don't cut me open in hope of insight or just for the sight

    The pressure received for which ways to take
    Isn't it all intended for the success of Life
    Be that a social or personal stake
    Or is the strife who holds the handle or blade of the knife

    To be in school or in business: two paths laid out
    I chose leaving higher education for well-planned success
    All would be as well gives certain doubt
    Some of my fulfillment found in my Cayenne S while others are happier with much less

  544. I'm an Asian born Canadian @ U of T, studying statistics/economics. While I would like to follow in my parents footsteps of acquiring a good education and working hard to get a good job, I also wanna enjoy my time here. many people will label me as "whitewashed" because I like to go out and party sometimes, which is absolutely retarded to be labelled in a certain manner (makes white people look bad and makes me look bad too). however, I do wish that other asians could enjoy some freedom instead of locking themselves up in the library all day and night. just my 2 cents

    • Do not think that you will be considered assimilated because you party with white people. Once you leave the sheltered world of university, you will find your career be severely limited because of your skin colour, regardless of whether you were born here or not. One way to get around this is to change your last name and to create the impression that you are mixed, but then it does not work all the time. The better solution yet is leave this country for somewhere where your race will not be a hindrance to your career.

  545. I'm pretty sure the "white" kids choose to go to Western and Queen's not because there are less Asians there but probably because they are known as "party" schools

  546. Even if this article is pure crap, there's absolutely no reason whatsoever to "fear" east Asians as a whole. I'm Caucasian at a Canadian university who works with people of all ethnicities in the life sciences. In all my experience, I've never had any reason to feel any one race is innately superior academically, socially, etc than any other. The difference comes down to the individual. Any one who thinks otherwise is sadly mistaken. In this comment section, I've read ignorant posts by people of various races – which proves stupidity is a human trait – not a racial one. Throw your stereotypes out the window if you want to consider yourself intelligent.

  547. Have anyone noticed it? It is like the typical individualistic/western cultural. People with western cultural background tend to self-enhance. When they make mistakes, they tend to blame others for the cause. But in East Asian cultural, people tend to self-criticize. When they make mistakes, they tend to look for reasons of their own.

  548. HAHAHAHAHAHA, this is just pure ignorance. It makes me laugh because of the stupidity of this. I thought we learned from racism. We are said to be intelligent creatures and yet this piece of stupidity comes up.
    I have friends who are not asian. They get good marks because they care. And I have asian friends, who party hard. They don't recieve as good marks. If you want a good education, your race shouldn't matter. If you try hard, you recieve good marks.
    People who are claiming that asians are taking their spots? You are ignorant. Don't make excuses for yourselves. Get off your butt and work hard to do what you want to do.

    HAHAHAHHAA. I laugh at you people who are making excuses. :)

  549. I don't think the article wasn't trying to assign blame to anyone…
    I think people need to look at the big picture and look at facts before they put up the "racial defenses". because if you do that every time… you simply won't be able to understand anything.

    People in general are not very self-aware. this is true for Asians, Caucasians, blacks.. whatever. Human beings are just not very smart in general. Ask social psychologists and they will give you more examples to prove this.

    Western culture and Asian cultures are indeed quite different. but no one way is right.
    Growing up from an Asian family… academic excellence has always been a large part of my life ever since I went to elementary school. Asian parents push their kids academically because the competition is too great. You either standout… or be forgotten. It's that simple.
    In North America, average parents are much more liberal and tend to push their kids very little or sometimes not at all. Is this the right approach? I do not know… but I have to say that I am glad that my parents and even grandparents imprinted me with the picture that I need to do well… and push my limits and learn!

    Now here is the interesting question. If you really think all North Americans are lazy underachievers… how did they build such great nations and economies???? They didn't get thus far because they started letting Asians into their borders… far from it.
    They were able to achieve greatness because there are people out there who do push their kids, and themselves for excellence! Just because the average person can't see that… doesn't mean anything.
    After all, there are only about 3% of North Americans that are actually pushing the society forward. This includes Asians, Caucasian populations! So you see… we are all the same! Genetically and intelligently!

    What matters is the INDIVIDUAL'S answer to the question – "How far are you willing to go?"

  550. wow. Racism masquerading as journalism. The best kind of stupidity!

    to accuse asians of having NO personality and no extracurriculars except for academia is the oldest form of anti-asian racism. Basically if you can’t out-compete asians, make up some other fault about the entire ethnicity. Asians both in asia and in the west have always been a major driving force in creative arts as much as certain people would like to believe otherwise.

    And guess what? A huge portion of academically successful asian students probably have more extracurriculars than your average (white in this case) partiers who consider the college experience as a right rather than privilege.

  551. yeah, right. the article says that asians only know how to study. but a lot of chinese friend around me, they party, go to cinema and play. their marks are really well too. they don't make a conflict with each other. in Harvard, everyone is studing really hard, try to get a good mark, doesn't matter if you are Asian or White. and in Harvard there are a lot of chinese too. then if a white child can go to whether Harvard or Western -Ontario, which school will they choose?

  552. Does Macleans realize that many of these "asians" are canadians as well ??

    If you are not white, you can never be considered a true canadian or something? Well, I'm sorry to break it to you, white people, but the only true "canadians" are the natives. -_-

    Why do you need to look at skin color?? Just look at the nationality ! Canadian born asians/black/indians, etc etc are Canadians too !! Not just you white people !!!

    As canadian citizens, everyone has the right to be considered equal, so why are they making a big deal out of this??? Asians "tend to" (air quoted cuz this is a generalization, and i know that many many white people are super smart and study hard too) dominate academically focused programs. But most Asians don't give s**t about education, too.

    For the comfort and happiness of white people, do asians now have to underachieve or something ?!

    • Hey Jackass, You're a racist and you don't even know it. I'm white and don't appreciate being assumed racist because of my skin colour. You're a hypocrite and I hope you figure it out one day.

      • Now we are playing this blaming the victims game?

  553. For journalistic integrity, this article should've been "Too Nerdy?" rather than making sweeping generalizations about a race, which is at the heart of any form of racism. But then again, we wouldn't want to discriminate against nerds either.

    'Too Nerdy'?

    Cool Kids believe that competing with nerdy students requires a sacrifice of time and freedom they're not willing to make. They complain that they can't compete for spots in the best schools and can't party as much as they'd like (too bad for them, most will say). Nerdy kids, meanwhile, say they are resented for taking the spots of cool kids.

    The upshot is that this is defining Canadian university campuses in a way it did not 25 years ago. It's a superficial form of unity that is expressed in the main through segregated, self-selecting, discrete communities. Nerdy kids only hang out with other nerds.

    Though it's true that universities do have diversity programs and policies for students, newer, fresher ways are needed to help everyone hang out together. Or at least they have the chance to. The cool kids may not find it's too nerdy after all.

  554. So basically … the white people are sad because they can no longer party as much as they'd like, and still get into prestigious universities and get a well-paid job …

    Hmmm … okay …

    so this is the asian students' fault…. i dont really see the logic here =S

    • Ironic that there are vastly more 'anti-white' posts in here than anything else. Funny how racism is a two-way street, huh.

      As a Caucasian, I'm outraged that "white" people have been stereotyped as being lazy, dumb, party-goers. On the other hand, I think the stereotyping of Asians in this article is completely inaccurate as well.

      All in all, this is a terrible article that seems to be bringing out some pretty ignorant comments.

      • So white people's social norm is to be nerdy? Yeah, you people love nerds. Boo!

  555. Is Maclean's saying it's okay for Smith, Wood, and Nelson to go to UofT but not so much Li, Wong and Shen? One is okay and the other is “Too Asian?”

    It also seems okay for Smith, Wood and Nelson to hangout together. But if Li, Wong and Shen hangout together, it's called not mingling?

    • Also think it's completely bogus to give impression Asians don't hangout with non-Asians. If you ever go to university rec sports you'll see people of all kinds together.

    • Changing your last name helps. Seriously, I have known people who have done that and it opened up a lot of doors.

    • That irks me the most!!! Any visible minority group hanging out with other people from their ethnicity is immediately questioned "so why do you guys all hang out together?" Um..what?? Has a white person EVER in their life been asked that question?? It is totally "normal" for white people to socialize with other white people…but as soon as they see chinese people grouped, or indians, or africans…it's an issue! It's not even that we choose to do this sometimes! That's an assumption. But what do you expect when white people already have their cliques and expect us to be stereotypically speaking a certain language or wanting to be friends with people from only our culture? So absurd. I mingle with every group…or at least I always try to initially but as soon as I get the questions "where are you from? is that your real name or your english name? so how come majority of your friends are chinese" I no longer have the desire to sit their and educate someone that since I'm born in Canada and went to school learning Canadian history and singing the national anthem and watching and reading Canadian content, that I AM A CANADAN for crying out loud!!!

      • oh and just to add I do also have white friends…but they're not the ones that need to be educated!

      • Why white person can hang out with each other? Because that's the norm in this white society.

  556. As usual, a writer has come out and said some pretty ignorant things, which makes the rest of us look like fools.

    News flash: this article does not summarize how Caucasians think, nor does it accurately portray Asians. Both races have suffered a blow here, and some of us fellow Canadians in here are stupid enough to perpetuate it with ignorant comments directed at an entire race, i.e. "You whites…", or " Asians are…"

    There is no reason to fear any other race. What you get out of life depends on what you put into it. Enough said.

  557. I find the main problem is that the term 'Asian' means anyone who came from Asia but 'white'? what is that? i'm 'white' and an immigrant, and people don't seem to realize that in our countries our education system is also pushing, it's not just in Asia and we also work our asses off to get good marks. I think the main mix up here is between general immigrants who come here with nothing and those who may be second or third generation born here and get less things to care about as they are already born into a house and money and may not have to work as hard for it. Even that is a generalization in itself because not every Asian or white person is a certain way, but my point is that the writer and the interviewed people are just lumping each other into these categories. Not cool

    • That is why white immigrants are better accepted than coloured immigrants in Canada. This is a fact.

    • There are actually many "white" people who were born in Asia and from Asia. The word Caucasian is referenced with Asia for a reason.

      The Ainu indigenous to Japan are not Japanese and some may say are "white."

      Many racial classifications in English are actually not a 1-1 match to what people actually mean. They historically signify power by race, darkness/lightness of skin color or borders rather than ethnicity.

      • I know, and vice versa, like if you look at asian post soviet states they still have like a 'russian culture' but just 'look asian' where do they fall in?
        it just bothers me how everyone is just categorized like this, i mean come on i think in this day and age people are too mixed up to be placed into such categories this is just stereotypes used here and because people listen to this eventually these rules are accepted by the public like the asian girl in this article who said she didn't want to go to a white party because they drink too much or something, ironically enough it's all my asian friends that like to drink and the 'white' ones that don't. maybe she would find some white friends who also feel that way if she didn't just 'stick to hanging out with her own people'. or the white girl who thinks that all asians get good marks? (most of my asian friends came here because they were doing badly in their country and end up here because it's easier) if she didn't think that she would find friends anywhere, too bad for her if she doesn't 'wanna compete with the asians' and get bad marks, if she's this lazy she's gonna get bad marks elsewhere anyways.

  558. Stephanie Findlay and Nicholas Köhler are definitely the worst macleans article writers ever. This article is really stupid.

    • I am grateful Allan Fotheringham's name is not associated with this issue.

  559. There are many people born in Hongkong who are not Chinese. It was a British Colony. They would consider themselves from Asia. For clarification, when you say "Too Asian" do you only mean the people who don't look like you?

    • That is me!

  560. This story reminds me of a very similar story by W-Five in the 1970s when W-Five falsely reported that foreign Chinese were taking up spots of "white" Canadians. Coincidentally, UofT was the focus as well. W-Five agreed it was "racist" (see "Controversy"):
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W5_(TV_series)

    CBC has some old footage:
    http://archives.cbc.ca/society/racism/topics/1433…

    It turned out most of the Chinese accused of taking up spots of "white" Canadians were actually Canadian or landed immigrants and not foreigners. It's actually kind of hard to tell the difference between the Maclean's story and the "racist" W-Five story.

    • Nothing, absolutely nothing has changed in the past 30 years!

    • This is the Globe and Mail coverage of the 30th anniversary in 2009 of the controversial W-Five story (which W-Five later agreed was "racist") about Chinese foreigners taking up spots of "white" Canadians at UofT
      http://tomhawthorn.blogspot.com/2009/09/thirty-ye…

      Because the students looked "Chinese" they were deemed to be foreigners. Turned out they were either Canadian, or landed immigrants.

      I honestly can't tell the difference between the Maclean's story and the W-Five story which W-Five agreed was "racist."

  561. More Chinese students wanted in Canada
    http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2010/09/15/con-c…

    There are currently more than 200,000 international students studying in Canada, contributing $6.5 billion to the Canadian economy.

    The China program is based on a similar one introduced last year for India. It brought an additional 8,000 students from India to study in Canada, increasing the total number of Indian students to 19,000.

    What exactly do you want? White people? You want our money but hate our race? There is nothing more two-bit than that.

    • They will regret it after coming here. If they do their homework right, they will never come to Canada to study. I hope that they will search for this article on the Internet.

      • I don't mind asian people, but you two are like flies that won't stop buzzing, and are kind of changing my opinion. Why don't you just meet up, get married and get out of the country that you hate so much?

        • Many people have left already. The rest of us want to go but don't have the financial means.

          Give us back the money you stole from us!

  562. Honestly, being an Canadian born Asian, reading this makes me sick. I like how this article completely disregards the fact that, even if Asians are coming into Canadian universities, as International students, they pay almost 3 times as much as a resident student does. Did they never take that into consideration? For people who say that the Asians have "taken their spots" in university, that's ridiculous, because they're paying an arm and a leg to be here, so they have just as much right as any and everyone else.

    • For better quality education, they had better off studying in the UK or the US.

    • You're right – money CAN buy anything.

  563. Well said!

  564. Well, on the bright side, that's one less magazine that I'm gonna be wanting to waste my money on.

  566. "Too Asian."
    What does that even mean?
    Canada is a country that prides itself in diversity and multiculturalism. In a sense, Canada is a country made of immigrants.
    I guess that would imply that this country is too African? Too Israeli? Too Hispanic? Or God forbid, too 'white'?

    • William Lyon Mackenzie King once said, "Canada is a White man's country".

      • William Lyon Mackenzie lived in the 1800s. Which was what? 200 years ago?

        • He died in 1950. He was the Prime Minister of Canada till 1948

          • King's government introduced the Canadian Citizenship Act in 1946, which officially created the notion of "Canadian citizens". Prior to this, Canadians were considered British subjects living in Canada. On 3 January 1947, King received Canadian citizenship certificate number 0001.

    • I questioned that too – how many Asians is one "too" many?

      • When it is Too Visible

        • They are fine when you working behind the scenes in kitchen, laundry shops or sweeping the floor. But at university, it becomes "too Asian",

  567. Maybe we are asking the wrong question. What is white people's social norm? Do they want to be nerds?

    • White people love name-calling, don't they? Truth is they live on stereotype.

  568. wellll its more like they're picking at a stereotype of asians which has been around for a good while. its a pretty narrow minded thing to do cause we're all going to the same parties and social gatherings or what ever. all this about segregation and what not is fabricated by a small amount of people who apparently chose the wrong school imo. their fault for not picking up which school generally parties harder and is much more in tune with the experience they expect.
    these comments are way more enjoyable then the article anyways :)

  569. I have been reading Maclean's Magazine for over a decade. I am deeply offended that such a reputable magazine would allow an article with inflammatory racist comments to be published. It bewilders me that the Editor-in-Chief would allow this to happen, during an era where the President of the United States of America is an African American. But perhaps we have not come as far as we think.

  570. I was born and raised in Toronto and am a second generation Chinese Canadian. I am also an alumnus of a Canadian medical school. Like all of my classmates, I gained admission to the class by doing a lot more than sitting behind a desk studying. I immersed myself in extracurricular activities, where I developed leadership and interpersonal skills. Moreover, my parents did not coerce me to study medicine – I did it on my own free will.

    • The article is disgusting. People of integrity and education will not stand for it. I'm not Asian, I'm Jewish, and frankly I'm appalled by this piece. Utter trash.

  571. In September 1979, the CTV program W5 aired a show called “Campus Giveaway”, where claims were made that international students from China were taking up a disproportionately large number of spots in Canadian universities. The program portrayed all Chinese students as foreigners, when in fact most were actually Canadian citizens. When my mother was pregnant with me, she marched in a rally in front of CTV headquarters, demanding an apology from the TV program. She told me that her motivation for protesting was so that the next generation of Chinese Canadians would not have to be subject to racial profiling when applying to university. Sadly, thirty years later, this is not obviously the case.

    • Asians will forever be considered outsiders in this country. Take a look at the two pictures in the beginning of this article. One of them is a flag of China. Message: all Asians are foreigners, regardless of where you were born or your citizenship.

  572. I question what it means to be “Canadian”. How will I explain to my children, that in a country which prides itself on cultural diversity, they will be denied equal opportunity as their Caucasian peers and will be judged not by their achievements, but rather, the colour of their skin.

    • No one told you this is a White man's country before? What is the mainstream media here?

      • Wow! Why is it exactly that you consider yourself royalty because of the colour of your skin?

    • Exactly. What kind of example does this set for generations to come?
      Just when I was finally beginning to believe that the future of our society was looking good, something as racially prejudiced as this gets published.
      This ignorance and hypocrisy is simply nauseating.

    • Tell your children that they should know their limitations as ethnic minorities, and that they should not dance to the "multicultural piper's tune" (as per Joy Kogawa in her novel "Obasan").

  573. This indicates that Macleans's editors think drinking is better than studying. Maybe they're drunk when they're rating canadian univerisities.

  574. Maybe I should tell them that they are simply "too Asian".

  575. If we are "too Asian" for a university, a place that sets standards for Canada, i wonder where else we will be deemed "Too Asian.'" At Maclean's? At a hockey game? In Parliament? By some employer?

    • The article is racist trash.

  576. You Canadians make me laugh!

    Let me give you the perspective of an American, who spent a short time teaching at UofT and thus has a better understanding of how universities work both North and South of the border.

    The Asian students that this article complains about are some of the lowest-quality Asian students I've ever met. They wouldn't have a prayer of getting accepted to a top U.S. school, and that has nothing to do with racial discrimination. 90% of these Asian students (at UofT at least) do not have what it takes to be leaders in the 21st century!

    Of course, the white Canadian students weren't much better, but the point is that it takes much more than working hard to be a successful player in society. The students I had the pleasure of teaching would never dare venture an independent thought or apply critical thinking to a problem not found in their textbooks. They'd rarely contribute to any meaningful discussions in class, and their written responses were worse than you'd expect from a 3RD GRADER! I'm not just talking about grammar and vocabulary either. Seriously, it's like no one had ever taught these kids how to write a college-level essay. Most were quite immature and only cared about their precious grades, not what they were actually learning.

    I have no idea what other Canadian universities are like, but if UofT were worried about accepting too many Asian students, they could easily cut down the numbers by requiring an "admissions essay" (like almost all U.S. schools require) where the potential applicant has to explain what they intend to do with their life and why they actually deserve to go to a top university. Or just answer one question: "What makes you special?" Most of the undergrads I met at UofT would not be able to answer that. They had no idea why they were in school, other than the fact that their parents and society expected them to be there. Sure, they studied hard, but without a sense of purpose. I felt that they were wasting both their time and mine needlessly, as I struggled to explain to them that what they were learning in the classroom meant nothing if they couldn't apply it to their own lives.

    A very foreign concept at the University of Toronto.

    • Compared to Top USA schools? How many non-top USA schools in USA?

    • Did you ask a white girl to sleep with you for giving her an A?

    • I agree that most Canadian universities are mediocre at best compared to their British or American counterparts, but an admission essay asking the applicants what to do in life? If that is not American naviete, I don't know what is. Such a concept is not foreign at all to Canada. I can totally see that someone here can come up with such a "wonderful" idea in this country.

      The problem with North American culture is that you treat university students as teenagers, while in Europe and Asia they are treated as adults. As adults, you do not need to and should not hold their hands and tell them what to do with their lives. What they do in their spare time (partying, volunteering, drinking, etc. whatever) has got nothing to do with the university or their academic career.

      • No, I would never suggest that we tell students "what to do with their lives". That's actually the opposite of what I'm saying. I'm saying that they should know what they're doing with their lives, or at least begin to get some understanding, without having to be told.

        Treating them as full-grown adults as you suggest is a bit of a problem, and the NYTimes Magazine actually wrote a nice article about this phenomenon where adulthood is being delayed longer than in previous generations. A lot of 20-somethings who have even graduated from college are moving back in with their parents. People shouldn't be considered "true adults" until they're completely financially independent, married and balancing a job with parenting.

        Kids who graduate high school and enter college are not really adults, but they're not teenagers either. They can make decisions for themselves and can develop real ambitions. Obviously, not everyone is equally ambitious, but it's perfectly fair for a university to discriminate based upon the level and type of ambition that a student demonstrates.

        After all, one of the most important missions of higher education is contribute future leaders to society. These are the people who will not just take up jobs in the workforce, but will actually generate new jobs. This means that even if you don't go to Harvard, you still benefit from Harvard's role in outputting young visionaries who are ready to change the world. And that mindset is the ONLY reason the U.S. is the world leader. We're not necessarily always the smartest, nor do we always have the best work ethic. But we teach our young that if they see a problem, they shouldn't wait for someone else to try to fix it.

        Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country!!!

        If I have to choose between a student who spends 50% of this time having a normal life (maybe even partying a little) and the other 50% of their time trying to apply what he's learning in school to making the world a better place, and a student who spends 100% of their time studying but doesn't know why … well, I think it's obvious who I'd pick. And if you were in my place, who would you rather teach?

        • I really enjoy what you wrote just now because I think you have given me some important clues about North American studying/teaching culture which I did not fully understand before. Now everything is very clear in one complete picture.

          To me, or rather in Europe and Asia, adulthood begins when you finish your secondary education. University is a 100% adult experience, i.e. you are responsible for what you do, and your social circle more often than not does not overlap with your academic activities. When I was at university, I almost worked full-time, and hardly attended any lectures because they were not mandatory unlike those in North America. The lectures did not teach you anything relavant anyway, so they were not that popular. We did not even have set textbooks like what they have here. Studying was a private affair, largely my own research, with occasional discussions with your tutors, and then you sat for the exams at the end of the year. This was my life as a student. I did go to bars and drink but they were not really "frat parties" but rather with my friends in the neighhourhood and most of whom were not students. The relationship between students and the university was therefore very different from that in Canada and the US. Honestly I had no idea of what the ethnic make-up of the students in my faculty was, nor did I care.

          Here it seems that university is an extension of the high school. No wonder they like to party!

          • But what was the point of your higher education? Why even go to college in the first place? Just to take exams? Just to prove you're smart enough? Just to have a little sheet of paper that you think makes it easier to get a job?

            I fail to see how the fact you didn't attend most of your lectures and never fully immersed yourself in your educational experience indicates that you were more of an adult. I understand that there are difference between European and American university systems, but how is what you're describing (not learning anything relevant in lectures) good for either you or society?

            It's a wild exaggeration to suggest that everyone who attends college spends most of their time at frat parties. Sure, people take the opportunity to socialize with people who they might not otherwise meet if they stayed at home. That's actually nothing like high school.

            Truth is, a lot of these kids never partied at all when they were in high school and just studied non-stop to get into their dream college. Then they suddenly meet a lot of new people and are taken from their small little fishbowl out into the big ocean where they no longer have parental supervision. Can you blame these kids for letting loose a little? A good college should strive to help these kids find balance, so they can become adults.

            One of the things that the NYTimes article I mentioned talked about was that "higher education" is a large part of the reason people aren't growing up as fast. Back in the days when people quit school early, they didn't have as much to look forward to, so it made sense to grow up quickly. Today, people are exposed to a lot more and they realize that there's a lot more they have to learn before they'll feel grown up.

            Honestly, I don't know what you're trying to prove. That European and Asian universities are better than American ones? Well, I apologize if I don't see that. What are the differences in outcomes if you look at students who graduate from one university and students who graduate from another university 10 years down the road?

          • I was trying to share with you how university studies are like in Britain and most of continental Europe, and why I could not see how partying or socializing (whatever that means) would become a deciding factor in choosing a university, and then you gave a reply in a rather patronizing manner. In fact, I am quite surprised that you seem to have no idea of the university systems outside North America, given that you are in the academic field.

            Lectures in British universities are not classes, but presentation of topics of interest to the LECTURERS, which are very often their own research. There are no required classes (do you take attendance here, too?) like North American universities because university students are not high schools. Most of the teaching took place in tutorial groups where we asked questions and discussed. Therefore, I, and so did most students, decided not to attend these lectures.

            Our biggest difference is that you consider university 100% of the life experience of young people, but I see it only as part of their experience of early adulthood. In fact, I think that it is a bad idea for students to confine their lives around university activities.

    • I am not sure what class you taught or why you only worked a short time at U of T. With your education, I'm also not sure how you can make sweeping statements without working there long. If you're a role model of success, why did you leave U of T?

      I graduated from a Canadian university and happened to work with world leaders in the US – as contrary proof to your assessment. My brother was President of an organization of 10,000 people. He went to university in Toronto. I know a lot of Asians who are very capable of communication and leadership.

      Perhaps you think "Asians" can't write, but I beg to differ. There are some very notable Asian journalists and authors in America and Canada.

      Are you confusing foreign students with Canadians who both look Chinese?

      I think most people in general are not cut out for leadership (why some lead, others follow) but this has nothing to do with race.

    • If you're so terrific, how come you had to teach at such a "second rate" institution? Got fired? Hmm. I wouldn't listen to a single word you've put here. You're just a fool.

      • I hope you don't call any of your students "fools" – not sure what school of teaching that comes from.

  577. Firstly,
    I am a 1st generation Asian and attended "white" predominant elementary and high school and went to U of Waterloo WITHOUT the knowledge it was "Asian". Both of my parents had science professorship in the Asian country I came from and for a period of time took up blue collar jobs in Canada (despite the shortage in the healthcare profession -another topic on its own). NATURALLY, they wanted me to take up post-secondary education.

    Fact is, with the immigration policy in place between Canada and East Asian countries, you either had to be loaded (Few $100Ks to invest in Canada bond for a fixed period of time) or you had to be well-paid and well-educated in your native country. It is the Government of Canada that put such system in place to ensure the immigrants (and their offspring) can be a contributing member of the society – by such ways like ATTENDING POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION and earn income and PAY YOUR TAXES.

    So really, as "Canada's only national weekly current affairs magazine", this is the kinda generalizing sh*t you write? I feel like I am at fault now that I attended post-secondary because my well-educated parents (let into Canada by Immigration Canada after vigorous selection process) wanted me to.

    Secondly,
    Please don't mix me up with international students and generalize us as people that don't try to mix with the main stream culture. I took up my CANADIAN citizenship, I PAY my taxes, I VOTE, I can have a half-day long conversation with my "Canadian" friends about politics (because apparently I am not considered Canadian accordingly to this article).

    The international students on the other hand, intends to go back to their respective countries. Why so many Asian international students you ask? Because 1) the rise of middle class in Asia making oversea education possible 2) the Asian value system 3) Canadian Universities LOVE international students because they get to charge them 3-4 times the tuition – in fact some of them market their schools in local medias in Asian countries.

    All in all, I am going to stop my MacLeans subscription (Should have done it when they made Conrad Black cover stories for like 10 months straight as if there were no other worthwhile stories in Canada).

    • This article is racist trash. Just know your fellow Canadians (this one happens to also be Jewish) stand by you. This racist trash will NOT be tolerated. Dumping your subscription, great idea!

  578. It's really annoying that posters on here (especially "chesterfield" and "dedede") are fully bashing canada. Bash the article, have your opinions about it – but if you really feel THAT strongly about the country, you are free to leave. This article is bringing up legitimate concerns – don't agree with the stereotyping, but you two are COMPLETELY stereotyping Canadians with all your "white man, hypocrites, they all secretly go home and hate asians."garbage. I'm sure Canadians from ALL DIFFERENT backgrounds find you irritating, so by pinpointing "white man, YOU ARE THE HYPOCRITES. " Some Canadians ARE racist, but not the majority. I'm sure not all Asian people are racist, but you two definitely are, and should be ashamed that you are giving your home countries a terrible name. You keep writing about how horrible canada is and how Asian people don't even want to come here – Well, I don't see "white man" disguising himself with a rubber mask as a different ethnicity to get into another country and then immediately cry refugee status. If you're unhappy, go home or stay and work maturely on the country's issues. Stop effing crying about it anonymously online and expect to get somewhere.

    • What if I told you I have white friends? In fact, I just had dinner with him and her and a couple of chinese friends earlier this afternoon. They are white and speak perfect Cantonese. They emigrated from HK just like me. They were born in the UK and do you want to hear what they say about Canada?

      Everything with you people is race, race and race?

      • I can guess what they said about Canada :-)

    • This is the longer version response.

      You say we are bashing Canada? Let's say I accuse you of a crime (murder or theft or whatever), did I show you evidences of what white people did? You know the "merits" of the case?

      What acceptable defenses have you offered so far? Insanity, intoxication, mistake of fact, Necessity/Lesser Harm, Lawful Capacity of Office, Legal Duty, Self defense, Duress? NONE OF THE ABOVE

      You cannot deny my claims as indicated in evidence; so what do you left with? All you want is not see white people being reflected in a bad light because it hurts your mainstream white pride! You are supposed to be good people? You can do bad things but other people can't talk about it? But you can talk about us being Too Asian?

      BTW, not every German Nazis was racist and bad either. Does it make the Nazi party/government less guilty when the overwhelming majority of them chose to commit crimes against humanity?

      • How did you have lunch when youve been sitting at your computer all day? I don't know what youre trying to say in (many of) your ridiculous, tangent comments on here. And Lastly, I NEVER EVER EVER EVER SAID ANYTHING WAS TOO ASIAN. BELIEVE IT OR NOT I DID NOT WRITE THAT ARTICLE!!!!!!!!!!! That's all I'm saying is: YOU, as an individual, regardless of your race, gender, age, or group of friends … are an annoying whiner and should shut up! I will not write to you anymore because you are pathetic and irritating and should stop being racist and stop wasting your time trying to blame other races for your pathetic life. Good luck to you and all your misery.

  579. They drink and party until friggin' three AM,
    while you are studying hard to get the scholarship.
    They are rich, high and wasted most of the time.
    while you are too busy with school to start a relationship.
    They blame on you when you work hard for the job,
    yet it was their government who welcomed you aboard.
    Sometimes you wonder the meaning of a Canadian,
    but you will never be because you are not caucasian.
    To all the immigrant-hating people in the nation,
    please make sure the CIC share your vision.
    If you would like all the minorities out of the country,
    just vote for the guy who like the same, end of story.

    Good day to you sir, happy stereotyping!
    :)

  580. Journalism, 'Too Yellow'?

  581. Too Asian? hard working people should not get blamed.
    What about those non-Asian doctors, lawyers and business executive officers, how did they got their college degrees? were they party/drink all day all night in their college years? :D
    Why most non-Asians doctors, lawyers and business executive officers went to private schools, were not their parents pushed them too much?

    • The message in this article is no matter how hard you work, Asians should know their place in this society. As an ethnic minority, you can work as hard as you want, but don't even think of trying to overtake the whites or be on par with them. The whites think that Asians are now taking up their rightful places at university, and Asians had better start be more "well-rounded" or they can slap a quota on Asians at any time.

  582. W5 produced and aired an episode in 1979 which expressed similar sentiments as this Maclean's article.

    Below is the rebuttal to the racist broadcast episode by Stephen Lewis, former Canadian Ambassador to the United Nations calling out W5 for its outright deception, race baiting, and hate mongering.

    [youtube CS-PBKXJbhs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS-PBKXJbhs youtube]

    [youtube MR8M-haYfPk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR8M-haYfPk youtube]

    Let everybody be honest and ask themselves, what has changed in 30 years?

    • Of note, W-Five agreed this episode of W-Five was "racist" for claiming Chinese foreigners were taking "white" Canadian spots at UofT.

      • Nothing has changed in the past 30 years in Canada as far as racial attitudes are concerned, except that Asia has now developed so much that our second and third generations can now have the option of going back to Asia instead of living like 3rd or 4th class citizens here.

        • I partly disagree that nothing has changed in 30 years. 30 years ago if you were Asian, sometimes you'd get hazed or vandalized. Racial slurs were common back then. There was a strong anti-Japanese sentiment too – look up Vincent Chin (American case but similar sentiments existed in Canada). He wasn't Japanese but was beaten to death for being Asian. His assailants were let off. The auto industry believed Asians were taking jobs away with brands like Toyota, Honda and Datsun. Now it's acceptable to drive these vehicles without fear of reprisal. I think the Constitution changed extreme intolerance.

          I would also say in the older days, you'd rarely see an Asian (or woman) at a major corporation in management. That's not true anymore as we can see. Education had a lot to do with this.

          But i would agree not much has changed beyond less violence, less racial slurring, and less employment discrimination towards Asians.

    • 1980s vs 2010

      pretty much the same eh?

  583. So do you hate britain and all british people because of what your ONE COLLEAGUE said? And were these "white people" all canadian? or were they australian? american? polish? french? irish? scottish? english? south african? And this has been asked a few times but you refuse to answer: if hong kong is so wonderful, and Canada is the devil, why are you here? seriously, why, if you are so incredibly miserable?

    • I don't hate Britain. I am British myself :-) Wanna see my passport?

  584. I don't see why it is wrong to focus on marks and examination results. A university is an academic institution, not a spa for socialites. I agree with you that academic results are not even considered at all when a graduate searches for his/her first job (which I think is a problem rather than a merit because it is the first job), but the number one factor is race. If you disagree, I would tend to think that you are either too naive or pretend not to know. Then it comes the familial and social connections. Your actual knowledge of the job or aptitude are almost an after-thought. This is the reality of the Canadian job market and the reason why Canadian productivity is so low and why the brightest of your young people have also left for the US and other places.

  585. I'm glad SOMEBODY else understands what this article was saying…well, I think that people do understand what it was saying, they just love controversy and being victimized!

  586. So getting a Master's or PhD is such bad idea that one will be better off volunteering and having a social life? Why go to university at all?

  587. The publisher of the Georgia Straight (Vancouver) has a mathematics degree. There are quite a few people with Math and Science degrees in media and entertainment. I think it's best to be careful of generalizations and assumptions.

  588. Not saying people who agree with this article are like KKK, but i was thinking this article's headline is one the KKK would like.

  589. what I will take from this article and the people who are posting here is that Asians Canadians will never be "true" Canadians. I guess in your minds we're just "pretending" to be Canadian and are lesser than you?

    I always considered myself Canadian but feel betrayed by this sort of opinion from a well-respected Canadian journal and fellow Canadians.

    thank you for showing your true ugly heads.

    • Mate: may I suggest you do not worry too much about one article and a few wing-nut posters.

      As a 3rd generation Canadian let me say this: welcome to Club Canada. You are in, just as much as I am. We are equal.

      Anyone who says otherwise can take a hike.

  590. "Too Asian?" is a headline no Asian would write unless they hated themselves or maybe this is a spoof.

  591. how would Caucasian Canadians feel if Maclean's had published an article titled "Too White"?

    it's not the most flattering title, is it?

    it is basically telling Asians to get the fck out of Canada

  592. "Race only becomes a factor in the sense that it makes no sense for Harvard to fill their class entirely with Asian students."

    I think this part has a big problem. Isn't that racist?

  593. global citizen my a$$. Canada pretends that it morally higher than all other nations and embraces multi-culturalism.

    It uses Natives(the true Canadians) who they don't even give a crap about for fesitivies like the Olympics and forget about them until the next time it needs them to put on a show.

    But this show of multiculturalism and global citizenship is an empty gesture in an attempt to impress the world.

    maybe it didn't deserve the UN seat afterall?

    • This National Post link – http://tinyurl.com/29ck28o

      Apparently bashing races is entertainment this week.

  595. Maclean's can go to hell for all i care

  596. Mr. American, how many American high school students can go to college in USA?
    You sound AS IF it is going to college/university is a free ride in an amusement park.

    You didn't answer me about how many non-top universities/colleges in USA? Who goes there?

    • I'm not entirely sure what you're asking. There's no shortage of colleges in the U.S. When you speak of what's a top school and what's a non-top school, this is relative and somewhat subjective.

      With the comparison to UofT students that I was making, I was pointing out that a large number of UofT students I met were narrowly focused in terms of what they could accomplish. They might ace a math exam but they'd fail at English or History. This kind of lopsidedness would make it difficult for these same students to get into oh say the top 50-100 schools in the U.S., which look for applicants to be more well-rounded or at least demonstrate minimal proficiency in a number of different areas.

      I'm sure that UofT has some standard for "minimal proficiency" too. It's just not a very good standard, and the university doesn't seem to care very much about enforcing it. This leads to the devaluation of "holistic education" and gives students the mistaken notion that they can get by in life by being one-note charlies. Sure, if you're the best astrophysicist in the world, no one will care if you can't speak and are otherwise crippled.

      But in every other situation it makes a big difference. If you're only pretty good at physics but otherwise useless to society, you'll never live up to your full potential. The most frustrating thing I saw at UofT was that so many of these students were crippling themselves and I think the university was encouraging them to do so.

      When UofT changes their evaluation criteria for both admissions and students in the university, I think you will see that the diversity problem will magically solve it self.

  597. They don't want to hear the truth or anything based on facts/merits, get it?

    All they want to hear is propaganda, supposedly how good they are, how great their country is, how superior their race is …

    The only exception is, for example, if an immigrant says the taxes are too high in Canada (due to HST in Ontario/BC), they ask us to leave; but if a white canadian says the taxes are too high in Canada, then it is ok. Because you know why? This is THEIR perfect world, their paradise, their REGIME.

    • That is exactly my experience, too. Immigrants should never say anything bad about Canada, but white Canadians can. In fact, that applies to all immigrants to Canada regardless of where they come from.

  598. They don't want a fair evaluation process as one based upon performance or merits or any objective.

    What do they want? White privilege.

    • Exactly.

  599. Marks are marks. If yours are good enough for that university, then you will get in.

  600. uh my sister goes to ut, and she's asian, and she doesn't drive
    so UHHH yeah
    and
    besides
    asians doesn't only mean chinese/japanese/korean/viet/thai/filipino etc. >.>

  601. Outside of Chinatown, where can an Asian make it, if a child is considered “Too Asian?” At Maclean's? In Peter Newman's Establishment? A great Canadian singer or poet? Something else in the Canadian arts? A politician? Prime Minister of Canada or even Mayor of Toronto? A hockey player? On the cover of Flare, Canadian woman of the year? Can someone Asian be Naomi Klein or Barbara Amiel? Mike Myers or Dan Akroyd? Margaret Atwood or Leonard Cohen? Al Purdy or Bryan Adams? Wayne Gretzky or Justin Morneau? Rachel Adams or Stephen Harper? When choosing curriculum – or extra-curricular activities, which Canadian can an Asian be? Which profile inside Maclean's? Which headline in which section? Close your eyes, dream, and randomly point to any page in Maclean's? Which Canadian can an Asian be? In Canada, the most popular story about an Asian is about being “too Asian.”

    • Not True. David Susuki, Paul Kariya and Patrick Chan just to name a few.

  602. The business program at Simon Fraser University, and the commerce program at the University of British Columbia (the two most prestigious undergraduate programs in Vancouver based on admission averages and rejection rates) already moved away from grade-only admission criteria, while favouring all-rounded applicants!

    • Perhaps to reduce the admission rate of Asians?

    • The two most prestigious undergraduate programs in Vancouver? That makes me want to puke.

      So they want more white people there?

      • The reason why so many people go to these 2 universities is solely because of the immigrant population residing in Vancouver.
        UBC is a little bit better in quality, but SFU does not deserve all those high quality students.

        • lol UBC is actually a pretty good school.

          it's still ranked in the top 40 world universities and last time i heard, it's still a top 10 in terms of research in north america.

          please don't put down our good schools because of some dumb reporters who probably would not have been able to attend the "too asian" schools when they were in college

  603. I kind of know where you are coming from, but to be honest with you I find the whole concept of "buying the entire education experience" very alien. From you said, race definitely plays a role in admission in America, even in a top university, and that in itself is wrong to me. Using the example you gave, you cannot admit two Asians, or whatever minority groups, for the sake of racial balance. However, what about two white students? If two white students are qualified, would the university decline one of them in favour of a minority student so as to preserve racial balance?

    Perhaps that is the shortfall of a multiracial society. My experience of living around the world has convinced me that multicultural societies seldom work, and the few of those successful ones are the exception rather than the rule.

  604. This is why I never checked the "Asian/Pacific Islander" box in my applications to US universities. May need my children to start doing that here in Canada.

    • Disclosing your racial origin is never a good idea, unless it is white. You never know how that information will be used against you later on.

  605. Someone talks about Vancouver and I want to provide a little more information.

    ALL the RICH White people living in Rich White neighborhoods like North Van and West Van, they send their kids to private schools/prep schools and then they are going straight to Ivy league schools like Columbia, Cornell, U Penn, Brown, Yale and etc.

    My friend was studying in a private school, and he said almost 99% Rich white people were like that.

    UBC and SFU are NEVER, EVER on their list and why? The local schools suck comparing to those I mentioned above.

    • That was my experience too when I lived in Vancouver.

      My first hand experience with those Ivy League schools is that the quality of education at the undergraduate level is good but not that spectacular. You are basically buying a name on the degree certificate.

      • that's what matters in life . big name degrees get your foot in the door whether you're qualified or not

        • I agree totally. That is why the fees are so high. They have successfully built up a brand name.

    • all my white female friends are leaving vancouver its rotten there now

  606. Why "Too Asian" – headline could also easily be "Whites Mostly" to determine which university.

    • Or "Not Too Asian"

  607. I can see a loser behind this article. Quite sure your kids are influnced and drivened by you to nowhere.

  608. Who says "Too Asian?"

    Canadians (who are Asian) are never called “Too Asian” in Asia, in Chinatown, by Asian friends or by non-Asian friends.

    Significant as Maclean's believes they are, the only ones who call people “Too Asian” are…euphemistically speaking, unlikely to have a lot of “Asian” friends. And if they even had one “Asian” friend I wonder how many more would be “Too Asian.” Who would ever want a friend who said “Too Asian?”

    Can you imagine if a magazine headline in South Africa read "Too Black?"

  609. Canada's not the only place where someone thought a KKK costume was not racist – http://gothamist.com/2010/11/15/chef_accused_of_d…

    Roger Smith charged me $500 a night to stay there (not my choice to stay there).

    It always amazes me when someone does this and says that and then says, "I am not a racist."

  610. These poor non-Asian students who are forced to avoid 'too Asian' universities. They actually have to work hard to get somewhere in life and sacrifice some fun. Maybe they should go on welfare if the real world requires too much effort.

    For those who think that this article is not racist, substitute 'black' everytime 'Asian' appears in the article.

  611. Wow! I'm shocked at some of the responses. Some say this is not racism because the students feel "uncomfortable" being immersed in this environment and it can be overwhelming to get use to.

    So you, a Canadian student with family and friends in the same Country, is uncomfortable. What about the international students who have a lot on the line? I'm not talking about just "Asian" students. Those who spend double in tuition for international student fee's and housing costs, etc. Those who come here with no family for a better chance at learning. Those who sacrifice "having a bit of fun" now so they can advance later on. That's not uncomfortable at all.

    My husband is Asian and I am not. We both graduated at UBC in '92. What you may not know is that my Husband, prior to immigrating to Canada, lived in one of the MOST populated cities in the world. Where the majority of families (4+) lived in tiny apartments and they all worked over 12 hours A DAY. When he had the opportunity (a blessing in his words) to come to Canada to get a better education and the chance to build a career – his goal was VERY clear. He wanted to do well in school, build a life here, and bring his family. He is the eldest of three other children. The stress and sacrifice he made to become who he is today, is something he does not regret.

    While we met in school, we did not start dating until after graduation. I did make a joke once about him being introvert and he told me it wasn't that he didn't want to go, but he couldn't. It took him double the time to learn a chapter because he wasn't yet fluent. That never occurred to me. He had his priority like many of you who are not willing to sacrifice the "time and effort".

    Laziness and those who blame other's for their lack of achievement really are winners. /sarcasm

    "I'm sorry boss… I can't do this report in a week. I know xyz person can, but that's not my fault. I think you need to tell them to not work so fast or as hard. Because they are making me look bad" yeah…. that'll go over real well!

  612. A non-issue. That's why most Canadian Universities don't even bother with the magazine's annual rankings survey. Is it better to move the standard to the lowest common denominator?

  613. You mentioned diversity. OK, can I describe those universities (UW, Queen's…) as being "Too White"?

  614. No different than that W-Five misrepresentation, Maclean's is focusing on students being from China. The number of Asians in Canadian universities is predominantly Canadian. Probably more than 90%. That's why people are asking are Asians not "Canadian" too? A flag of China on this story to represent Asians is like putting up an American flag to represent non-Asian students in Canada. Just because the reporters can't differentiate Chinese people doesn't mean there's license to get our flag wrong. Our flag is Canadian.

    The international students who do come to Canada pay double to triple the tuition. Any administrator will tell you that's because universities need the money for what Canadians don't subsidize. So effectively any foreign student is helping to subsidize Canadian education.

  615. [“Too Asian” is not about racism, say students like Alexandra: many white students simply believe that competing with Asians—both Asian Canadians and international students—requires a sacrifice of time and freedom they're not willing to make. ]

    That made me lol. White Canadians refuse to compete in a fair society? WAI NO FIITE

  616. According to this article:
    "White people are lazy and thats normal!"
    "Asians work too hard, and thats not fair to the lazy white kids".

    This piece is offensive to all. I can't believe a periodical of this caliber would publish such hate mongering, divisive, garbage.

  617. and you can go join the neo nazi march that happens all the time in calgary

    • Yep. All the time.

      I hear there are crosses burning in Prince George as I type this.

      • Hah! Didn't Hedy Fry die of Botox poisoning, already?

        Actually, there was a lot of pretty racist chatter in the Chinese community, when the Dalai Lama came to town. And a lot of the Mainlanders here HATE the Falun Gong–the Epoch Times seems to do better in the English, than the Chinese edition.

        • What does race have to do with those? Why do you blame race on everything?

          • You blame white people for everything.

          • White people do commit crimes against colored racial minorities. We have enough evidences to convict you at trial.

          • Evidence. Not "evidences".

          • Let me say it another way.

            If a white guy complains about high taxes in Canda (due to HST in Ontario and BC), it is fine.

            If a colored minority like me complains about high taxes in Canada (due to HST in Ontario and BC), you accuse me of blaming white people for high taxes.

          • You're right! I totally say, "oh, that dedede! complaining again about something else!" What is it NOW that the white man has done to that dedede?? poor little minority dedede!

          • Dear white man, don't you have your own name instead of copying mine?

          • YOU SEXIST!!!!! Why do you assume I am a man? I'm calling my government!

        • The Dalai Lama and Falun Gong are not races, for your information.

    • As opposed to so many Han Chinese, who've done their own 'Han Pride' marches through Urumci, Lhasa, or other cities? Anti-'Barbarian' racism in the PRC gets so nasty it can knock the Doc Martens off a skinhead. We're not just talking marches, here, but outright cultural, linguistic and physical genocide.

      This ad hominem "you're a bloody racist!" thing is getting pretty old. People are starting to lose their fear of being accused of racism for criticicizing the hallowed Trudeau and Mulroney multiculti legacy, as this article illustrates. Multiculturalism and mass immigration were disasters; kudos to the Chinese for not being stupid enough to try them in THEIR country.

      • Han Chinese? You can tell who is who? Even Chinese people can't tell each other apart, you know that?
        Are you a KKK member?

      • It was a small number of disaffected hooligans of Uyghur/Tibetan ethnicity who rioted and caused death and damage, but this is the exact opposite of the prevailing narrative.

        The PRC is taking the promotion of ethnic minorities to levels that no western government would ever, ever, ever dare. People who promote anti-minority sentiment (like yourself) will definitely be sent to re-education camps. Articles complaining about how Uyghurs are thieves would never be allowed to exist in media. But by doing so, the usual suspects (like yourself) accuse them of genocide and assimilation.

        Finally, all the comments here are immediately laughing at the pair of rich and spoiled girls in the article.

      • Probably the Chinese was copying what the whites did to the Natives here?

        • The PRC government treats its ethnic minorities like kings, coddling them to the extent that no democratic government would ever dare. It wasn't too long ago that the Canadian government treated natives like Untermensch. You're being too kind to the Canadian government.

        • And somehow it's just terrible when the "whites'' do it to the natives, but if it's someone who is not white, then it's ALL ok! And STILL the white people's fault!

  618. This article doesn't really make much sense now, does it? What is this article trying to implement; that Asian children should stop working hard, should stop being motivated and instead get involved in gangs, drugs and violence? Most of all, how come when the white population dominated the universities, there was no complaint? Are you trying to say that you want to see the children of this world, be unmotivated bums? Also, why are the Asian students, who are getting the good marks be segregated to discrimination? Just because a minority group has surpassed that of the majority should there be such discrimination state. Also, if you so desperately want to supposedly "out compete the Asian race," all you have to do is study harder, no one is stopping you.

    • What the article to say that ethnic Asians are taking up space: they have barged in and occupied the university places that should be reserved for white students.

      • It is A FACT that they ARE taking up space. Not racism, A FACT. OVER A BILLION= SPACE TAKEN UP. I understand that there is a lot of competition in China…and why??? OVER A BILLION PEOPLE!!!! Maybe the issue that needs to be discussed is controlling the population. (And in a better way than puncturing the heads of little girls as they are coming out of the birth canal.)

        • Listen to this. I wonder how come the Canadian missions abroad do not forewarn immigrant visa applicants of this kind of racist and xenophobic attitudes that they will encounter in Canada?

  619. This is another post that should be widely distributed to all potential immigrants to Canada so that they know what they are in for. It is just scary such bigotry actually comes from a purported university graduate.

    • Ask an instructor (especially, a sessional) at any Canadian university about their experiences with being pressured by the institutions they work for to pass marginal students. And put aside YOUR racist stereotypes about nose-to-the-grindstone Chinese overachievers, and have a look at the amazing spectacle of a room-full of kids playing multi-user games, day in and day out, at 'work only' campus microlabs.

      As for "bigotry," the easiest place to find it, even among many "proported university graduate[s]," is in the PRC. There, you will find shocking Han race-pride and vicious racism against Uighurs, Mongols, Tibetans and other minorities. Actually, the Chinese Government has now refused to recognize degrees issued from the University of Calgary, which gave the Dalai Lama an honourary degree…

      • By the way, in China, those who are not of Han ethnicity have free "extra" marks on exams, are exempt from the One Child Policy, have quotas for them in the civil service and state-controlled companies, and it's official policy to punish criminals of ethnic minorities *less* harshly than those of Han ethnicity. How's that's for "racism"?

        But of course, if the Chinese government wants to promote more integration among its diverse population, it's suddenly genocide and assimilation…

      • Sounds like what the Chinese government does to its minorities somehow justifies the discrimination against Asians in Canada.

    • WHy don't you just go home and warn them yourself?

  620. I'm a Canadian-born white guy who married an Asian. Hopefully this silliness will be long gone by the time my three-year-old gets there.

    Of course, that's only if my wife gets her way and teaches him the "Asian" tradition of hard work. I'm secretly planning to teach him to skip school, sleep all day and then go sneak cigarettes behind the bike racks. We all know this country was built by people who shunned hard work: did you know the prairies were first tamed by Ukranian peasants who ate doughnuts and watched "King of the Hill" all day?

    Seriously, Macleans. If your scoop is that little private school girls can be racist and lazy, please don't pretend you've stumbled upon some momentous truth. If your point is that some immigrant kids can be a bit shy of socializing with the hard-drinking princesses, well, go figure. Lots of Chinese are perfectly willing to socialize with people who don't get drunk until they throw up; immigrant students are always wandering through parks and hanging out at the beach near UBC.

    Maybe the Chinese can remind us of our own past – universities were dry campuses until the 1970s, and our own grandparents rose at dawn. They're more Canadian than we are, sometimes.

    • Not watching "King of the Hill" but "Family Guy"!

  621. I don't really see the point of this article. While it's not exactly "racist" it's certainly extremely prejudicial and I don't see any purpose for this kind of journalism except for being controversial and attention-grabbing for the sake of it. Are "Asian universities" problematic? It doesn't really say, but it doesn't seem to provide any solution or insight either – it just highlights preexisting racial stereotypes that people are already aware of.

    Saying that Jewish people are all wealthy isn't "racist" but it's certainly prejudicial and offensive. This article makes it seem like the only reason an Asian might study in a University is to earn a financially secure career at the complete expense of an interesting social life. Yes, I'm Asian, and yes I attend a University, but no I don't necessarily study science, math, or medicine for the sole purpose of becoming wealthy (nor do I spend all my days in the library). I'll be the first to admit that my degree (arts) will probably lead me nowhere financially; if that was really my concern I'd likely be doing something completely different with my life.

    It's especially funny (and ironic) that Maclean's writes an article about Asians and academia – stereotypes like these which the media are especially proficient at both establishing and perpetuating. When was the last time you saw an Asian in a movie or TV (or magazine) that wasn't a gangster, drug dealer, or an enormous geek? I find it miraculous that I don't personally fall into ALL these asian stereotypes due solely to the lack of any other kind of Asian representation in the media today. I guess I did forget about that one guy, David Suzuki, though. Come to think of it, I don't remember a single character/role model from TV and the media growing up looked anything like me. No wonder Asian students tend to mingle amongst themselves and work towards financially secure careers – If i were to identify with the ethnic identity suggested by the media I'd probably never do anything else!

  622. Adam, your brown shirt has just been dry-cleaned at the laundry store run by a person with yellow skin.

    • Actually, YOU are the one trafficking in racist stereotypes, here. Most of the people "with yellow skin" who enter Canada come via immigration classes like Entrepreneur, or Investor. To reiterate: these students are NOT 'poor immigrants.'

      • I know, seeing that I'm the son of one of those immigrants. I put a bait which you took. Congratulations!

      • If they are not poor, what does Canada offer?

        A chance for them to pay taxes to your white racist government, buy goods and services from you white local racists (so the companies can stay afloat, white people continue to have jobs)?

        When you talk about social apartheid, do you mean white people live in high class white neighborhoods whereas colored minorities traditionally live in ghettos? Why don't you mingle with the aboriginals?

  623. I am just stunned… how can this kind of article even make it into public? I think the reporters should seriously think more before they put their work out there. Or maybe they thought but didn't have enough training and brain to understand their flaws in the argument. And it is too bad Maclean's can't acknowledge their mistake…it's a journalistic suicide. One thing is sure that the credibility of this magazine's ranking is questioned now.

    • The authors tried to be unbiased by offering as many perspectives as possible. It's difficult to write something like this without offending somebody. But I agree, it could have been written better.

      Maclean's will enjoy the media/public attention. If you really want to hurt them, here's the trick: All Asians don't buy their magazines. Their revenues will drop by 43%. :)

  624. Long story short: Alexandra is lazy and has no fighting spirit.

    • But she is the type who will get all the good jobs when she graduates. You will see.

      • Oh yes, of course. White men in suits want White girl at the office.

      • Is it any wonder why large Canadian companies are so complacent and mediocre, as the government and central bank point out?

  625. I think the article was fairly well written. Perhaps too much info, but I felt that that authors tried to be unbiased by offering as many different perspectives as possible. It's difficult to report this type of news without some offense.

    I am 1st generation Chinese. I went to Queen's university where it's more Caucasian many years ago. Asians tend to stick to each other because of natural reasons to be socialize in a comfort zone. Kids will be kids. They don't realize that they should diversify themselves. Caucasians are also guilty for not going on a limb to learn from other cultures.

    As for the main point in the article. Are schools to "asian" ? Sure, I wouldn't be surprised. I'm sorry to say that that stats support that Asian tend to have higher grades on average. It's not because they are genetically smarter. The average Asian works harder. Should there be other criteria for university entrance other than grades ? Sure. But its a combination and you can't remove grades since schools will always measure students based on grades.

    Why do Asians work harder ? Well I can say from my MBA days, that international students tend to work towards the grades to get JOB interviews. Yes, there are certain positions that are reserved for top students. International students don't have the experience and they NEED to find a job otherwise they are shipped back. Harsh, but that's the facts. The average Canadian born Caucasian does not have this type of pressure.

    For current students complaining about profs/TAs not speaking English. Well, the sad fact is that this has been happening for a long time now. Schools enlist professionals, sometimes foreign, who bring in the most research grants for the department. English is just an asset.

    The geniuses in room should know that you don't need profs/TAs. Either you have it or you don't.

    Good luck! Treat each other well.

    • Any kind of non-objective system of selecting students or employees is liable to introduce biases based on race, social background, religion, gender or sometimes even addresses (as shown in many studies). Take gender for example, recent statistics show the women have been outnumbering men in higher education throughout the developed world. Can we introduce non-meritocratic criteria so as to reduce the number of women admitted to higher education? Would such a measure be socially acceptable? If not, why would it be acceptable to use race as a criterion for university admission?

  626. Blame the system NOT the people.

  627. ante’s a troollllll

  628. HOLY MOLY, Adam! You make it sound like there's some sort of asian invasion. You have a problem with people's accents? You do realize that you have an accent too? We all do. "Canadian" accents aren't they only ones that exist. Can you imagine the kind of obstacles you'd have going to another country where people didn't understand you and your accent? Would you want them to view you as being inferior because you speak a certain way? Is that really your fault?

    CRIMINAL elements?? So when a white man is part of hell's angels, or other illegal violent activity (domestic abuse, gang activity, manslaughter, kidnapping, etc) it's better? It's because they as an individual are on the wrong path…or have some other issues going on? But if someone who is "colored" commits any of these acts then that reflects their ENTIRE race?? Are you kidding me?

    There's a reason for everything. And two sides of the story. If you're on the side of privilege than be thankful, but think twice before opening your mouth and making ignorant comments. Get educated and LEARN WHY THINGS ARE THEY WAY THEY ARE.

    • Speak with people employed in the trucking industry, who've been undercut by the defacto Sikh trucking syndicate. Or listen to the warnings of people like Richard Fadden, warning of PRC-based elements infiltrating financial and real estate firms. And we have enough criminals of our own (HAs, Indian Posse)–we certainly don't need to import the likes of the Chinese Triads, Dhillon Family, MS-13, or the un-PC named Fresh Off the Boat/FOB-Killers and African Mafia.

      As for linguistic issues, it's not a question of "accent[s]," but a complete inability to function in either official language. And Chinese immigrants aren't the only culprits. As a Polish-Canadian, may I remind you of Robert Dziekanski, who planned to come to Canada for EIGHT YEARS, yet never bothered learning a word of English.

      And bear in mind that most Chinese students in Canadian Universities are the children of extremely well-off Immigrant Investors and Entrepreneurs–the epitome of "privelege."

      • You talked about racial exclusion earlier? Now you are whining Sikh trucking companies stole your jobs?

      • The Jews took over our banks. If it weren't for them being so good at business, Gentiles will have controlled them. Not fair!

        The black people took over the spaces in the NBA. If it weren't for them being so good at basketball, us white people will be there more often!

        Try making any of those statements.

        • Come to think of it, Too many Whites having Canada government jobs and senior positions in government.

          TOO WHITE

          • maybe if you got off your computer and actually left your house, you could have one of those jobs, dedede!

  629. Please fire Stephanie Findlay and Nicholas Köhler… that is all that needs to be said. This is journalism at its worst. Any of the commenter could write a better piece than them.

  630. The author of this article ignores an incredibly basic statistical fact.

    "Toope says that the university's Asian student population is not “widely out of whack with the community,” although the stats tell a slightly different story. According to a 2009 UBC report on direct undergraduate entrants, 43 per cent of its students self-identify as ethnically Chinese, Korean or Japanese, as compared to 38 per cent who self-identify as white. Although Vancouver is a richly diverse city, according to data from the 2006 census, just 21.5 per cent of its residents identify as a Chinese, Korean or Japanese visible minority."

    Someone wasn't looking at Metro Vancouver, and was looking at just Vancouver city, which is geographically small. Many people from the entire Metro area go to UBC, and there is a high concentration of Asians in Richmond. From the same 2006 census data:

    "About 43.6 per cent of Richmond's population was of Chinese origin, the highest proportion of Chinese in a Canadian municipality. By comparison, 27.5 per cent of Surrey's population was of South Asian origin."

    • And white Canadians do not like this fact. Check the editorials and readers' columns in all the major and community newsapapers published in the Greater Vancouver area in the 1990s and you will see all the venomous attacks against Asians.

  631. 1. Some white guys speak Italian, German, Spanish in front of me all the time in Vancouver. I don't see anyone complain about that.

    2. We are not isolating ourselves. Look the First Nation people, do white people want to see them around? Why are they living in Native Reserves?

    • she is simply responding to the article. the article never talked about geman or spanish speaking their own language…this whole article/debate has to do with Asians & Whites, period. "so to speak another language in front of someone is extremely rude." that's what she stated, this could be for anything. she never said chinese, korean or anything specific. read before you comment

      • She said, "hey are in a different country where the main language is ENGLISH."

    • The point is, if you are white, they will tolerate (merely tolerate, not exactly welcome) you whatever language you speak. However, if you are coloured, it is a different story.

  632. There are so many factual errors with this Adam's post that I don't know where to begin.

    Subsidized ESL? The immigrants pay FULL taxes, where is the subsidy? If there are less students, they don't need so many white teachers and they will be laid off as seen in Vancouver and Toronto.

      • Those money were spent as salaries to White teachers at those community colleges.
        Most of those rural places, where the majority of those community colleges, are located don't have any ESL immigrants there.

        And where did the your white government get the money? From the extra tax revenue of which these ESL immigrants bring to your white racist country by living here and buying goods and services locally!

      • I wonder who excludes whom here. Do the immigrants isolate themselves or rather the whites do not want to have anything to do with coloured immigrants?

  633. The article should have mentioned this key point :

    For 20 years, Canada has had a virtually senseless immigration policy of accepting 250,000 immigrants per year. Incredible as it may sound, this policy was started so that the Progressive Conservative party could compete with the Liberal Party for the immigrant vote. Many immigrants, particularly Asian parents, have taken advantage of this madness. They realized that their children would have had great difficulty getting into Asian universities. In Canada, as these parents learned quickly, it was easy for their children to get into university.

    The madness that has transformed many Canadian cities ethnically has now transformed Canada's universities ethnically. Would Asian countries have allowed this to happen? See http://www.ImmigrationWatchCanada.org for details.

    • The white racist group is here at last?

    • maybe the natives should have put an immigration quotas?

      lol just because your boat came a couple generation earlier doesn't make it your land

    • I am not surprised by your view. From my experience, most white people think this way but just do not talk about it in public. If you pay attention to the media and the discussion, many white Canadians are secretly rejoicing the imminent financial demise of Ireland, hoping that it will send a wave of immigrants here so as to "regain the racial balance".

  634. My parents never forced me to get certain grades, they never said if I didn't go into Engineering or Medical School then they wouldn't pay my tuition, I never got beat as a child to go to University… I realized during high school that I wanted to work hard seeing how much my parents gave up to immigrate to Canada for my sake. I also realized that having good work ethics will take me far in life, plus I appreciate how lucky I am to be here while many people in China are still struggling and competing 100x harder than the people in North America.
    Yes, I'm chinese, yes, I work hard in school, and no, your stupid article will not change my mind and I will continue to strive for better grades and a better future.

    • No one has to go to university! You don't have to go, if you don't want to. You are an adult.

      • Have you actually read this article? I don't think so… IT STATES IN THE ARTICLE THAT ASIAN PARENTS FORCE THEIR CHILDREN TO GO TO UNIVERSITY WHICH ISN'T ALWAYS TRUE! Dedede you really need to read.

        • No one can force anyone to do anything. Canada is a free country. And especailly, in North America, white people love to kick their kids out of the house at when they reach 18.

          You know where those young homeless people are coming from?

          • Dedede, I think people get that when you're of age that you're an adult and you can do whatever you want to do. What Britney is stating is that the article generalizes that Asian parents force their children to go to university – as if it was a bad thing. Lillian just states that her parents, against what the 'journalist' may have tried to stereotype, did not FORCE her to go to university. That she was able to look beyond that and really realize what her parents have sacrificed so she can have a better future.

            So what are you trying to say about parents who kick their kids out at 18 and are now homeless? It's a shame and some people don't deserve it. I get that… but what does that have to do with this? How does racism and generalizing Asian cultures when these people are not Asian and obviously don't care to educate themselves about the culture, translate to this? Or are you trying to prove that because cultural minorities may struggle with aspects that for every struggle an Asian person has, that white people can one up them?

            We know that everyone has their own struggles, but there isn't an article that says "well your struggles are so hard that it inspired your work ethic and for that, shame on you for working so hard". Maybe because many white kids feel that they are adults and can do what they want to and not go to University therefore there parents decide not to support them. Well you're an adult. You can chose what you want to do. If you decide not go to post-secondary, then get a job.

            It's sad that there is still so much poverty. But you need to read up on how it is in Vietnam where the war vets are pan handling with amputated limbs because the government doesn't help them. Or the majority of middle class in China or India who have NO help. Or the fact that international students are giving up everything to educate themselves so they can get away from being near homeless.

            So what was your point?

          • I think that his point is nobody can force you to do anything once you are an adult. To claim that Asian parents force their children to go to university does not sound logical. In my opinion, such a claim, which was made by the Toronto Star in their original article on Nov 10 (which was later altered to remove this offensive sentence), is pure sensationalism.

          • 1 in 4 homeless in America are war veterans. I had a friend who once lived in the street by choice (not because she was kicked out). Covenant House which specializes in youth at risk would disagree with your assessment that homeless youth is a result of being kicked out of the house in some social norm.

  635. Many white kids are extremely smart and work extremely hard. More Asians might work harder too, why? Our parents gave up everything for our future, and with our parents paying our tuition so we don't graduate with a load of debt, we can thank them by getting good grades. Now, if you're lazy and don't want to work hard…then life is tough. Our world is getting more competitive by the day, if you hate competition and working hard, then don't even bother applying to Universities. Just go to a community college and slack off, and oh, you won't be seeing too many Asians there. Happy now? Found a solution for you all.

  636. Darn us Asians! How dare we work so hard in school and strive for good grades. How dare we appreciate our parents' sacrifices made for us. How dare we even applying to elite Universities?! We should all back away and let the lazy white kids have it, while we all go play for the Toronto Raptors, while the white people need to make some room for black people to play for the Maple Leafs… yep, because it's obviously a sin to excel in something.

  638. It is time for us to put race behind us and look at people as individuals, not as members of a race. This is the right way to do things. If we want to have diversity in University, we should pick INDIVIDUALS with different experiences and from different walks of life, not set quotas as to what percent should be Asian and what percent should be White, etc.

    We have come so far as a society, but it is sad that we still separate ourselves based on our skin color or appearance or ancestry. Everyone needs to learn to open up and experience all the beauty of humankind. Our race does not define us. What defines is who we are as individuals. We are not all clones of a set of "white", "asian", or "african" blueprints. We are individual people with our own qualities and personalities and interests, and we should treat each other as such.

  639. In response to the comment from the white mother in the article- no one has the right to have a University seat. A University seat belongs to whoever works hard and earns it. Immigrants who are in the country legally have just as much a right to be there as anyone else does. If your son can't get a University spot because he was beaten out by a Chinese immigrant, the issue is not that the kid who beat him out was a Chinese immigrant, it's that your son didn't have what it takes to obtain that seat, regardless of whether he was competing against another white person or a chinese person or an indian person or whatever.

  640. I also never understood the concept of University life. A University should just be a place to learn. It should be about education and preparing people for professional careers. The "life" part of (namely partying, drinking, etc) has nothing to do with the goals of the University. It's not there to teach you how to party or drink. You can do that stuff on your own. It's there to give you an education and that's what it needs to be focusing on. You don't need to be at a university to have wild parties or drink. When you pick a university it should be based on the education it provides you not the party atmosphere. If you are picking Universities based on their party atmosphere, as this article claims a lot of students, particularly White students do, then you have your priorities messed up.

  641. Most Asian kids in my neighbourhood are born in Canada. Their English are same as whites. In the meantime, their academic scores are very good. Lazy white kids are going to compete with second/third generation Asian kids whose English has no accent.

  642. Hey Macleans,

    Great article!! Since you've increased the bar of journalism to a higher standard, I can't possibly imagine what your next topic will be. How about… "Too Women – Are there too many female university students?" or "Too White — White parents don't care about feeding their kids fast food". Or what other racial generalization can we talk about? We all know that generalizing is WRONG but your ignorance doesn't see that.

    I hope you see that this is a reflection on the whole publication and what kind of standard you've set for yourself. Especially in a time where print media is declining, I am glad you are so willing to let all your Asian subscribers (or those who don't condone racial generalizations) know that their business is not welcomed. Also, as a Marketing Manager, I may have considered advertising opportunities with Macleans. However, I won't anymore. For any Asian professionals/executives or even businesses who may have a percentage of Asian cliental, I would never associate my brand with this kind of garbage.

    Good Job Maclean for approving this. You owe an apology to all the Asian people who work their ass off and get this as a slap in the face and you owe an apology to all the WHITE STUDENTS who work their ass off and get categorized as lazy, incompetent fools.

  643. When can we see an article from USA or Canada describing that

    " there are too many red men in the universities" or

    " a red ocean in our universities"???

    Are all the policies for the "original people" in this land utter failure??

  644. Maclean's would probably like to keep Canada less Asian and less French (Re: "Most Corrupt"). Two topics they know very poorly judging from their coverage.

  645. i disagree with "Asians" being the only people singled out for not speaking "English." Go to Little Italy, Quebec, Little Poland, a Musqueam home etc. Personally, i think it's okay to speak any language. In a global world, with less and less borders online and offline, in economics, politics and for purposes of peace, it's almost essential to know another language. Borders are less and less relevant to define "Rome" when in "Rome." If all we had to worry about was Canada, the economy would be easier to fix, but that's simply not the case.

    • But i can understand people having a phobia towards a language they don't speak. Be it math, computers or French.

  646. I went looking for reporters Maclean's hired who were Asian to see what they thought. Turns out there are none. No knock against any reporter. But…."Too Asian?"

  647. PART 1

    The article does ask the question "Are our universities too Asian?" .
    However, the bigger question is this : "Is our country becoming too Asian?" which can also be stated as the following, "Is a corrupt, abnormal and unjustified high immigration intake resulting in Canada becoming re-colonized?"

    Before some people go ballistic, they should ask themselves this question : "Does a country define itself by ethnicity and race?" Most Canadians see Canada as a country which was colonized by white people and which has an aboriginal population which should be treated equally. Canada has had a white majority for most of its 400 year history. If aboriginals become a majority in parts of the country, so be it, but there is a low probability of that occurring in the entire country. Most Canadians also think that Canada's minorities should be treated fairly.

    • Canada is already defined as a white country, both subjectively and objectively. There is no doubt about that. However, it has no connection with the performance of university students. Is Britain a white country? How come you never hear this kind of sentiments (too many students of a certain race) in European universities? It is because the priority of universities is academic excellence, and all else is unimportant. Canadian and American universities, on the other hand, function in this so-called multicultural environment which is a social experiment that has utterly failed, have perverted their university admission process.

  648. Part 2

    To make my point clearer about national identity, let's ask, for example, "How does China see itself?" The answer is that the Chinese too see themselves in a racial or ethnic way. The same applies to other countries on every continent.

    The difference is that some ethnic minorities in Canada, with the support of guilt-ridden, politically-correct whites, seem to think that China (and other countries) should be allowed to define itself ethnically, but that Canada should not. To these people, Canada is not whole until it has representatives of every section of the world. Being what it has been for many years is inadequate.

    • Great point!!!!!! People expect all white people to feel guilty, because they are white. It is OK that I don't like feeling like a foreigner in my own town, and I don't have to feel guilty for feeling that way.

    • What you don't seem to realize is that without immigration the population of Canada will dwindle and you will have no tax base and thus no future. Your labor pool will also shrink and necessary jobs will go unfilled. Of course, that is if you close off all immigration. You can always reenact racist laws and only allow immigration from countries with certain skin colors.

      • If we stop immigration, maybe we can give jobs to all those "homeless white people" that Dedede was complaining about.

      • Thats propaganda. Japan has a lower birth rate than we do and they have 1% immigration why are they any different??We have a great standard of living before massive 3rd world invasion than we do now. Also our wages are being driven down every day and unions are disappearing.

    • If you want to talk about Canadian identity, why don't you focus on what's American in Canada?

      China's attitude towards Westerners is far from analogous to Canada's attitudes towards “minorities.”

      The phobia of Westerners in Asia is negligible when compared to the phobia of "Asians" in Canada. Most Chinese would "see" western influence being key to drive China's economic prominence.

      Most foreign countries watch American movies, engage in American sports, eat western food, buy western products (including GM cars), learn "English" and embrace other foreign cultures (good or bad).

      Hongkong was colonized by the British. As a “minority” the British had great privileges. And the Chinese in my life didn't view Brits with the same amount of fear and disdain we see some Canadians levelling at Chinese (born in Canada). I personally think some Canadians are too "insecure" of themselves and that's why they fear people who are not like them.

  649. Part 3

    One of the most significant results of the corrupt decision in 1990 to increase immigration levels to 250,000 per year and the political cowardice to end the corruption is that Canada has taken over 5 million immigrants. The blunt truth is that Canada did not need most of those 5 million and it certainly does not need the 250,000 per year that Canada is now taking. Despite claims to the contrary, there is no logical reason for bringing in 250,000 people—particularly in the 3 post-1990 recessions when hundreds of thousands of Canadians lost their jobs and had to compete with new immigrants for employment.

    Most Canadians will accept some genuine refugees and some immigration, but they feel they have been overwhelmed and they do not like it. In fact, many are enraged that a significant amount of Canada's immigration intake has been caused by outright fraud in all of Canada's immigration categories. High immigration has also been motivated by the nonsensical claim that the inflow exists to make Canada "diverse". In fact, "Diversity" has been elevated to a new national goal for Canada.

    • and its the reason there are ZERO JOBS in canada now- rising unemployment (we are now 25% and the highest in the G7 nations, rising gas prices, rising rents and housing, taxes sky high and climbing, wages going DOWN not up (thanks to free trade with china and india). Massive uncalled for immigration is killing us!

  650. Part 4

    To illustrate the nonsense, let's turn the situation around again. If a large number of white Canadians had shown up on China's doorstep, and proclaimed they had come to "enrich" China or to make it more "diverse", China would have responded quite dramatically. At the very least, the white Canadians would have been thrown out immediately. And most white Canadians would have respected China for throwing them out.

    The main point is that most Canadians do not want to be overwhelmed in their universities or in their country. Immigrants are going to have to accept this and that they will remain minorities. They also have to accept that those immigrants who have committed fraud have to be removed and that the current high immigration policy has to end quickly. All these measures have to happen for the sake of peace within Canada's borders.

    See http://www.ImmigrationWatchCanada.org for details

    • I guess then Canada should start stoning adulterous women as that would be the correct thing to do in Saudi Arabia. I find it interesting how people compare Canada to random countries when it is advantageous for their argument.

    • Most white Canadians share your sentiments and there is nothing wrong with that. However, if we are to implement a white-only policy for immigration while maintaining the current level of immigration into Canada, will there be enough white immigrants? The pool of potential white immigrants from Europe has shrunk dramatically in the past 50 years. The only other reliable source is Latin America, but then not all of them are white……

      • There you go again with your "Most white canadians…" you racist hypocrite!

        • Then why are you whites using the word Asian?

    • "The main point is that most Canadians do not want to be overwhelmed in their universities or in their country. Immigrants are going to have to accept this and that they will remain minorities."

      Are you speaking of Caucasian Canadians or Asian Canadians too? Because there is a large percentage of ASIAN CANADIANS, who are born and raised here that attend university. So because of the color of their skin you are going to label them an immigrant and say "get use to it" because Asian Canadians add to the "Asian count" even though they're not international students?

      With an "not willing to sacrifice freedom, time and hard work" attitude like Alexandra's, Canada needs the work ethic of international students.

    • EXACTLY! Thank you Immigrant Watch, very well said.

  651. It's your fault for not getting into a better school. Any Asian with competent English would be attending a tier-1 (UBC, UT, and etc.)

  652. guess what? if ur not willing to sacrifice ur time and effort then STFU! to all white kids: being stupid is definitely not ur fault but crying for injustice just because asians are smarter is totally ridiculous! either work hard or leave it to ur DNA!

  653. A couple of questions:
    – first off, what is the ratio by faculty of student governments? If the percentage of Asians in engineering is higher than other faculties, and the percentage of engineering students in student government is lower, then isn't that already showing that the number of Asians in student government is lower? That seems to be a very leading statistic that opens up a whole new can of worms.

    – Waterloo has AIFs (Admission Information Forms) to fill out, at least before entering engineering. It takes into account your interests, hobbies, clubs, social activites, etc. as part of your admission to the university on top of your grades.

    Overall though, this does relate to me, as a "white" student at Waterloo who came from a high school that was also 40%+ Asian. I think that although it's sensationalism journalism, there's a lot more that's true in here than a lot of the commenters give credit for. Universities have reputations, and races do, often subconsciously, stick together when choosing where to go and who to be friends with once getting there.

  654. well said

  655. I was glad to see this topic brought to light. However, I do question the authors motive behind it. The fact that they based this feature on anonymous sources shows that any journalist who wants to write about any topic can have it substantiated anonymously: a fact that has kept supermarket tabloid publishers laughing as they line their coffers with our gullibility. This article also shows the lack of journalistic integrity from the editor and publisher of Macleans for printing it, for anyone who disagrees with raising academic standards in our universities lacks basic critical analysis of our education system.

  656. Well written! Thank you.

    As a FIRST-generation Canadian, being born in Canada this article really upsets me. I am 100% Canadian, born and raised. I am educated, hard-working, and a positive contributor in today's society. I am not socially inept, I am in a bi-racial relationship, and I don't have an accent. This article shows that it doesn't matter if you are an Asian international student or a born Canadian citizen who happens to be Asian – you are still not accepted.

    I am 100% Canadian. The only thing the separates the writers and I are respect, intelligence, and the color of my skin.

    • I agree with you and sympathize with you. However, unfortunately, this is how most white Canadians think. The Japanese-Canadians found out the hard way during WWII when they were rounded up and send to concentration camps regardless of their place of birth, citizenship or links to Canada. They were all considered enemy aliens and imprisoned.

      • Nazi POWs were released in Canada and actually GIVEN land to farm, whereas innocent Japanese Canadians were interred and disenfranchised. This is the power of white privilege.

        • While Canadian soldiers were fighting for Britain in Europe against the facist Nazi regime which carried out genocide against the Jews due to racial and religious discrimination, the Canadian goverment was busy disenfranchising and imprisoning Japanese-Canadians and confiscated their properities on the home front because of their racial origin. How ironic.

      • And who the hell are you to speak on "how most white people think"? You are the most hypocritical person I have ever seen!! "Most asians can't socialize" is an unfair generalization, yes! But just as unfair as "most white people…". So, Chesterfield, get off your high horse and get off your bloody computer.

        • Getting angry now? hahaha

        • Because we know very well about your mainstream white culture.

  657. I don't think this is a racist issue, but it is something that nice Canadians don't want to discuss. The truth is that we are not taking care of our own citizens, but being more than fair with immigrants and foreigners…"Only in Canada!"
    While some might say that the "white" kids don't work as hard, I know of some that are working very hard, and in fact were A students throughout school but are still having a difficult time at U.B.C. because it is so Asian. The Asian brainiacs "study machines" may come out with the best marks, but does that make them the smartest most qualified person for the job??? not always, they are good only at following instruction, many have no life experience, and certainly no extra curricular/sports as that is considered a waste of time. Not well rounded students at all!!
    Personally I resent that Asians make up the majority at U.B.C. Vancouver, and my daughter who did her first year there has now transferred to the Kelowna campus, due to feeling like a minority!

    • White people must have white privilege in priority seatings?

      • CANADIANS must have priority, you dim wit! Not a hard concept!

        • What about Canadians of Asian origin who were raised with a good work ethic and studied hard in school? Are they a different class than "white" people?

          • He meant only White people are Canadians.

        • ASIAN CANADIANS are still CANADIANS, Dim Wit! UBC is full of ASIAN CANADIANS (Canadians born of Asian decent) and ASIAN INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS are only a small percentage. There is a difference. If YOU are an Asian Canadian, you are STILL CANADIAN despite the color of your skin.

          You are right, grades and a good education does not mean you are guaranteed a job. You need people skills and life skills. But guess what? That is not something that is up to your daughter. It will be up to her future employer who hires her or decides whether she is worthy of a promotion. If she is smart and can work hard and has life/people skills, then I don't see a problem with her achieving success.

          Again, you don't find it racist to generalize a certain ethnic group? Have you seen AAA Rep Hockey across BC? There are Asians (East Indian, Chinese, Korean etc) who play sports.

          I am a FEMALE CANADIAN born CHINESE. I played Ice Hockey – typical? Probably not. In fact a teammate of mine is a ASIAN CANADIAN and played ice hockey for Vancouver Thunderbirds. Which has allowed her to get a scholarship at Harvard and has been on the Harvard hockey team.

          So before you typecast and generalize and say "whoa is me… my daughter had to go to Kelowna because SHE now feels like a minority" welcome to what Asian Canadians get treated from bigots who don't realize that they are CANADIAN.

          • Yes, you are right. Grades and a good education does not mean you are guaranteed a job, but skin colour does. The employers only prefer whites, and the rest are left to the "coloureds'.

        • Agree!

    • How many air-head, clueless white chicks here get jobs because of you-know-what?
      Let's talk about that.

      • Why would we talk about that? Is that the issue that the article is confronting? NO. IT IS NOT. Go discuss that on some other forum, idiot.

        • It is exactly what this article talks about, unless your comprehension of English is so low that you take every single word literally. Whose English level is not high enough for university now?

          • Actually, I'm in University, and I am an A student. I am capable of inserting pronouns where they are needed, unlike you. No, the article is about asian culture spreading in a non-asian country. I don't see anything about tits getting jobs.

          • How did become an A student? You sleep with your white professors?

    • And why white people have to be the majority? What's wrong with white people being the minority?
      All you care about is white power, white privilege and white supremacy.

      • Dedede, give it a rest. You are so racist! It is really scary that there are people living in Canada as racist as you are (Dedede). If a person is so filled with hatred for "white people," then why live in North America? I think you should work on being more well-rounded, because from reading some of these comments, I can see that you have been sitting on your butt at your computer for the past week. Time to be a more productive member of society, Dedede! "thesystemsucks" is ABSOLUTELY, 100% RIGHT. And if don't like it, you are more than free to leave.

        • So pointing out white people being racist becomes racist?

        • I don't kiss your royal, supreme white ass and I become a racist?

          Do you have any merits in your argument? You don't deny the fact that you commit crimes every day and you call me a racist for bashing you as a criminal because you have commited crimes?

        • And alot are anti-christians are whites are christians and celebrate christmas and if u dont like that its too damn bad we are not giving up our culture, our rights, our religion for you and please respect our flag and stop flying your ethnic flag on your cars that is highly insulting to us and if u dont put our country first why are u here??????????????????

          • and speak ENGLISH at ALL TIMES ON THE STREETS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • If a million white people moved to china, do you think china would welcome them with open arms? Seriously, would they?

        • Truth comes out at last.

          It is about White majority and white supremacy. You know what, tell your governments to refund and comepnsate the colored immigrants so they can go home. After that, you can put up a sign at your national borders proclaiming White Canada Forever! We don't care.

          • I like having different ethnicities in Canada. I just wish that people like YOU were turned away at the border. ANd sorry that you can't blame your skin, because I've never seen you. Sorry dedede, this fact is solely based on the fact that you are an ignorant racist idiot. Can't blame your race, it's all you! I think I'll just call up "my government" and get them to ship you off, back to the perfect land where you are from, with no white people, since you hate them so much. And yes, it is a fact that Canada is a mostly white country. Asian Canadians make up a lot of Canada, too, and that is great. But when people come from ANYWHERE and expect CANADIANS to fully adapt to THEIR culture, some people get annoyed. I know you are ashamed, but you know for a fact that (ie) China (which is defined by CHINESE PEOPLE (the colour of their skin!)) would not be happy if a bunch of white people showed up, unless they spoke fluently the native language(s) and learned about the culture.

          • But not Too Many Asians, right?

          • >>>
            But when people come from ANYWHERE and expect CANADIANS to fully adapt to THEIR culture, some people get annoyed.
            >>>

            Is that why the Aboriginals/First Nations people live in native reserves? Tell the truth, white man.

            How much do you want to mingle with the "Indians", even though they speak perfect English and no culture now.

          • Ok, let me get into my time machine and erase history, would that be better for you? I, personally, wasn't alive at the time of european settlement, believe it or not, and yeah, it's crappy! As for why do SOME OF THEM (you racist!) live on reserves now? Well, because they don't have to pay tax. As far as I know, they ARE allowed to live NOT on reserves, and they are citizens with as much, if not more opportunity than "white man," and what they do with their lives is their own choice. By immigrants moving in and not assimilating, you are doing the same thing that the european settlers did, but it's ok because it's you?? two wrongs don't make a right, dedede!

          • So you mean you white people will give jobs to the Aboriginals? That's not what I heard.
            Many aboriginals have English/French surnames, so they get a lot of job interviews. But what happened after the interviews?

            There was a news item the other day about a white mother asking a native band for welfare money, because she lives in a native reserve. Wanna dig that up?

          • Do you think the aboriginals prefer to live in hellholes from the those god-damn-forsaken-out-of-nowhere places because they don't have to pay taxes? (Yes, they do pay taxes to their native band on the reserves)

            Or do they want to have a good job, good money, live in Vancouver, Toronto and etc.?

          • Yes if your english and born in canada for centuries you now have No rights and its our ancestors who built the place, although alot of us are not ENGLISH originally………

        • China is the only place in history where the Jewish community have completely, totally, and peacefully, disappeared/assimilated into the host society. Everywhere else in the world they have been discriminated or persecuted in some form. Every group which has settled in China has assimilated into the host society, without any exceptions. What defines China is inclusiveness, not the "us-versus-them" mentality that's so prevalent in the west. Take that as you wish.

    • the more I think about this the more I think this is discrimination in reverse. It is funny how some people on this post view all Canadian students as lazy, hockey playing, coffee drinking…maybe some are but not the ones that I know! They do enjoy outdoor pursuits however, not their noses completely in the books 24/7, which I definately think is to their credit!!

      • Exactly how is it reverse discrimination? Are Asian students given some sort of advantage over others?

        • For the amount of "white people"- stereotyping and bashing on this very forum, I agree with it being reverse discrimination. When you throw dirt, you lose ground, and all you Anti-White posters sure don't have much ground left to stand on! I don't see any post saying that all asians wear scrunchies, hello kitty attire, fur on their coats, walk around with permanent peace signs, and shuffle their feet. But it's totally Ok to pinpoint Canadians as tim hortons obsessed hockey players who get drunk every night and say "eh". What makes (for example) China, China? Lets see… Chinese culture, chinese people, and chinese traditions. Why is Canada not entitled to Canadian things too? The article that was originally at hand raises very valid points – it's too bad people can't just talk about it and instead has to label all white people as the racist bad guys, and all asians as victims.

          • Seems that some people cannot stand the taste of their own medicine.

          • Why is Canada not entitled to Canadian things too? Do you really mean WHITE things?
            Then tell your government about it. Tell them to refund and compensate the colored immigrants to go back to their own country. And put up an iron-curtain at your borders so no colored people will enter your white country ever again.

          • Jesus Christ, you keep inserting WHITE into everything anyone writes! I think you have a white complex! I'm not even answering you because your comment has no basis in my original comment! Your brain is a waste of matter.. and NO not because you are not white! AGAIN: IT IS NOT ABOUT SKIN COLOUR IT IS ABOUT CULTURE.

          • I understand. You want to protect your white culture and white supremacy and white majority. We hear you loud and clear.

          • Canadian culture.

          • Yes and natives white and blacks all here for generations, we are all the same and canadian and all canadian culture and MOST IMPORTANTLY Canadian mentality…………..

      • Hilarious!!! Now it's reverse discrimination.

        It is OK for you to discriminate Asian-International students because your bigoted mind has categorized ALL asian people, whether they are Canadian or International Students to be "noses completely in the books 24/7". But now you want to cry because you are now being stereotyped as a Canadian who is a lazy, hockey playing, coffee drinker.

        Remember, you said you resent ALL Asians, whether they are Canadian or International Students for being the majority of UBC.

    • I'm terribly sorry your daughter was too stupid, or lazy, to survive the weeding years of UBC. For an adult, you sure type like a 13 year old teenage girl. I guess that explains things though.

      I personally do not see how the school being "Too Asian" (which it really isn't; there are definitely more white people) would affect your "daughter's" grades. Pathetic attempt is pathetic.

    • Are you saying Chinese who are born in Canada are not "citizens"? The majority of Asian students are Canadian citizens.

    • I don't understand how "we" are not taking care of our citizens and being more than fair with immigrants & foreigners?

      We are talking about school, which is about academic achievement. Like sports, it's the ones that perform the best at that moment in time that advance.

      You also fall into the stereotype that Asians are study machines that have no life experience and are not well rounded students at all. The Asian International students I know, are well travelled, live on their own, participate in sports (volleyball, badminton), and are very social (restaurants, karaoke bars, bubble tea).

      The Canadian students I knew watched sports more than they played, ate fast-food than food from different cultures and most had never left the continent.

      I admit I'm generalizing, but only to prove my point that your perceptions are false. Asians do not wake up and sleep with text books. They work hard but they also enjoy life. Why else do so many Asian restaurants and businesses exist. Somebody must be using them?

      It's such a cop-out to say, Asians get better grades because they study non-stop. Sometimes teenagers or youths say things that are illogical or not fully thought out. It's unfortunate that some adults have bought into these beliefs or statements.

      I agree with you that the best mark does not mean a person is the most qualified for the job. But every job I ever applied for had interviews. I'm of Chinese descent born and raised in Canada, and I thankfully can't remember any interview where my GPA was ever discussed.

      Why do you resent Asians pursuing academic studies at UBC? Why does this affect you? How is your young woman going to function in this World if she leaves when she feels like a minority?

  658. What a zoo! Read this article that you will know what I mean.
    http://www.americanthinker.com/2005/08/asian_amer…

    When all hell breaks loose, just change your surname to a British one and all problems will be solved!

  659. Oh my god, THIRTY YEARS AGO?? call the police! (please not i DID NOT BOTHER to read your comment..i only read up until "30 years ago" and came to the conclusion that since it is history, and the source is a complete moron (that would be you, dedede), it wasn't worth the effort.

  660. is it our fault that we want work hard to strive for the best?
    yes here in canada (especially toronto) racism isnt so big
    but in the US its crazy racist
    my chinese friend went to a deca international competition and the people there literally pointed and asked if he spoke english

    • Racism is equally bad, if not worse in Canada than in the US.

    • What is the difference between USA and Canada? Really?

      • Not much.. a different flag, perhaps? If an ET lands in either country, I doubt if it can tell the difference.

      • In the US, they are more honest about racism and race issues. Here in Canada, they pretend it doesn't exist. Canadians are somewhat more politically correct and simply pay lip service to the notion of equality. Because of this unwillingness to talk about racism, there can not be an open and honest dialogue. Canada tries to be color blind, but in fact is what Tim Wise calls, color mute. If people do not admit that racism is a problem then structural inequities will remain unaddressed.

  661. This article is preposterous. As a student at the University of Waterloo, one of the so-called "too Asian" schools, I see no problem with a diverse campus. I have friends from several racial and national backgrounds, and frankly I think it makes me a better person. I'm white, and I chose to go to Waterloo because it is a great school where I can get a valuable degree. If there are a lot of Asian students on campus because they are driven to get a good job by going to a good school too then so be it. Perhaps the white kids going to schools like Queens or Western so they don't have to work too hard, as this article suggests should re-evaluate why they are at university in the first place. It is not because of the Asian students that Waterloo is a competitive school. It is a competitive school because we have several successful undergraduate and graduate degree programs, as well as one of two Schools of Optometry in Canada, and a school of Pharmacy. It was a competitive school before the Asian students got there.

    I think this article seriously misses the big picture. Canada's population is built on immigration. There are large populations of Asian people or other non-white ethnicities in Canada as a whole. Obviously this influx of immigrants is going to be reflected in the racial background of students in all levels of the Canadian school system.

    If reputable schools like U of T and UWaterloo tend to have a larger Asian populations than maybe that says that white Canadians just don't work as hard to get into the better schools. And besides, that nonsense about students at "Too Asian" schools not "socializing" aka partying? I'm sorry, but have you been to a bar in Waterloo after midterms are over? Oh, we still party. We just make sure to the ace the test before drinking away our brain cells.

    • Mark my words: this article is part of a subtle media compaign aiming to raise the profile of this "Asian problem" in Canadian universities. Before long we will see quotas imposed upon the admission of Asians to Canadian universities.

      • I'm afraid its not really that subtle. Yellow peril has never really gone away. Asians make a convenient scapegoat. The head of CSIS recently alleged that certain politicians were under the influence of foreign powers. Foreign in this case means China rather than Israel.

  662. Please don't generalize that the the opinion of all "Havergal grads" is that because two girls made stupid comments about their choice in universities. Almost everyone in the current graduating class understands how fortunate we are to go to a school that equips and prepares girls for university and encourages all of us to strive for higher academic achievement.

  663. I go to Havergal College and no it is not representative of Canada as a whole. I find this article rubbish because the author is fully aware that most people will assume the stereoptype view of private schools once alexandra and rachel are introduced: all white, lots of money, easy ride.

    There is an intense amount of academic pressure at Havergal to go to university, and the school does challenge its students to excel exceptionally in academics as well as co-curriculars and sports. It is understandable if the girls mentioned in the article would not want to go to an academically intense university. However, their use of the phrase "asian school" was stupid considering almost half of every grade is non white.

  664. My parents are from two different Asian countries, and I was born in Canada. In downtown Toronto, when looking at a mockup of a condo building, the saleslady asked me if I preferred the east or west side of the building. I responded "West, because it has a view of the park." She said "Oh, that's interesting, because most Chinese people would pick East, and Canadians usually say West." She was, of course, white, and presumably "Canadian."

    I wondered how someone could be so ignorant, to assume that because I look Asian, that I'm Chinese, and that I'm not Canadian. After reading racist articles like this in widely read publications, I can understand why people see me as a stereotype. Thanks, Maclean's!

    Since I don't have a subscription to your crappy magazine, I will instead cancel all my Rogers services.

    • This kind of experience happens to me almost every day here in Canada. I am not surprised at all. People assume that you work for a restaurant/laundry, or you look like a waiter/waitress in some Chinese restaurants that they have been to before, why you speak French (!), why you are not burning some sort of incense at home, why you are not eating Chinese food for lunch, why you are not wearing silk because China is so famous for silk (I have been asked before), or even – the ultimate – why you speak English!

    • I'm a white canadian who backpacked through europe and most people assumed I was american. RACISTS!

      • American is not a race. It is a nationality. There is no race called American.
        You think you are American because of your American accent, or the lack of a Canadian accent.

      • Canadians and Americans are basically one people. I am not surprised.

        • Thats why are are called north americans and we are also all christians!

      • Hey Tracy… your sarcasm was actually funny, but just wanted to contrast the difference with you and Chesterfield.

        You were in a different continent – not in your home country. Asians have been in this country since the 1800s. Do African-Americans get asked where they're from in the US? Unless they have a foreign accent, I doubt it.

        However, many Asians, born & raised in Canada have to deal with situations that make them feel like they are not Canadians. This can be traced historically and unfortunately even to this day.

        This Macleans article is one of many examples.

  665. Thanks for sharing that history with us. I am seriously shocked by this. I found a link on youtube that documented this. I think we should all watch it and remember what happened in the past and learn from it.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS-PBKXJbhs

  666. I think everyone should watch the following video. This issue was brought up 30 years ago and woke up a silent community as stated by Dedede
    [youtube CS-PBKXJbhs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS-PBKXJbhs youtube]

  667. What a poorly written and extremely biased article.

  668. So, people who don't party are socially retarded? That's nice…

  669. does Canada advocate the equity of human being? Just stop asking this kind of stupid question why there are so many asians in the university. When the univeristy was full of white guys 50 years ago, did anyone complain about the university was too "white". If you have a good grade, you can definitely get into any unversity you want to. However, if you suck, you just lose your opportunity. Listen, your skin is not gonna help you for no matter what you do. This is a competitve society. Winners survive, losers get eliminated.

    • Des Canada advocate the equity of human being?
      Yes, if you are white, then you are equal. Same as Nazi Germany, if you are German.

    • Unfortunately the winners now, who are the whites, get to redefine the rules. So what they do is to change the rules so that whites win and Asians lose. This has been done in the US with affirmative action.

      • With the rapid development of China, in 10 to 20 years' tiime there will be hardly any new immigrants or students from China anymore. This so-called "Asian problem" will be solved automatically just like the cessation of Japanese immigrants after WWII. The racial blame will then shift to another group.

  670. how do competitive students make school less fun for other students? personally, i'm after fun and the experiences that come with living in another city and exploring the social and cultural activities it has to offer but the competition of other students has no restriction on that.
    to say that competitive students (and asians in particular) make the student and campus life less appealing is a twisted and ill-formed P.C. way of saying "the university of 'x' isn't white enough"

    and i'm sure the people that can be described as 'aritzia' or 'aber crombie billboards' don't exactly help blur the lines of isolation and segregation between whites and asians. i can report for mcmaster that those lines are pretty clearly cut between them.

  671. i graduated from the bishop strachan school, i'm white, and i go to u of t. what?
    and did this "alexandra" really say "all the white kids" .. i mean, havergal teaches their students to be better than that, no?
    bss was all about becoming the alpha girl and being a good citizen.

  672. Well I attend UBC and sometimes I swear to god I am in a different country. I play how long until I see a white person (can go hours). The disappointing part is very few are "Canadian" sure some may have the papers put they are new can barely speak english and in my opinion devalue the UBC "brand" what I mean is if you have graduates who can barely string together two sentences, how does this look for UBC grads when these people hit the job market… I would also like to add is UBC , U of T almost seem like welfare states for Chinese post secondary education. Canadian tax payers for a large part pay for these institutions shouldn't the positions goto Canadians? I know we receive "bonus" money from the foreign students but isn't it time for a reality check let's educate are own and make are own country strong do you think frikin CHINA IS GOING TO THROW ANY BONES TO US!

    • agreed!

    • Please, you're embarassing the actual UBC students. Did you forget we have a language proficiency requirement to enter?

    • Another example of white-privilege talk.

    • Looks like UBC didn't enforce their English writing requirements.

    • Another one of those "Only White people are Canadians" speech.

  673. I would not consider Asians to be smart. They are good at rote memory (read Proust and the Squid to find out details why) summarized has to to with the fact that they did not make the final stage of cognitive development the creation of an alphabet so students spend first 5 years of their life memorizing symbols many contribute this to the lack of creativity in Chinese culture interesting that the Japanese do have an alphabet and the innovations associated wtih Japan are quite evident vs the Chinese that basically steal ideas…

    Interesting point a friend who is a professor at one of the Universities mentioned in this article has a very simple method to break this rote intelligence associated with this demographic. Ask questions on an exam that require logic or creativity they will bomb and everyone knows the key component of intelligence and genius is creativity and logic.

    • Funny, the universities obviously consider them to be smart, and whites write the same tests and exams.

    • Written Japanese language also uses Chinese characters. Japanese does not have a true alphabet, but two sets of phonemes called hiragana and katakana. Hiragana and Katakana together with Chinese characters (kanji) form the writing system of Japanese.

  674. I do not understand what you are talking about either.

  675. the author is one pathetic loser.
    as far as i know, asian students generally work hard, but there are always native students with better grade. My highschool teacher, who graduated from U of T engineering, told me that in his class, the best ones are native, then asian, then trash who never even tried hard, including both some asian and native students.
    u can't blame ur own failure on those who work hard

  676. Truly sad that Maclean's and selected sources think of a university education in terms of race. Tell me this is not a representation of Canada's brightest minds.

    Does Maclean's want to "compete" with Lakeshore?

  677. It looks like our western culture of pleasure and mediocrity is catching up with us and we are simply falling behind others who work harder, take any abuse thrown at them and use that as incentive to work harder. These Asian students don’t waste as much energy on trivial things and they focus on full self actualization through their lives instead of fun but sometimes unworthy pursuits. Instead of hurling abuse at each other we probably can learn from this. No? Listen I love western culture, western thought and the things we have brought the world, both good and bad but for awhile now haven’t any of you felt that parents have been taking it too easy on their kids? Giving them too much for not enough appreciation? I have always thought that parents and children spend too much time apart in western culture too, sometimes to the point that children have felt that their parents don’t really know them. In Asian families they seem closer more bound together and as a result their kids are a bit more stable and goal oriented. Anyone observe this? No? Maybe we can learn some nugget of truth from this rather than fear mongering, hate breeding and calling names. No? We have to remember too that they come from cultures that are VERY old have VERY long proud histories and we can’t assume they’ll send their kids here to kiss our asses. They pay twice what we pay for our universities why wouldn’t they work twice as hard?

    • Canadian mediocrity and a sense self-entitlement from white supremacy.

  678. Louise Brown
    Education Reporter

    Note: This article incorrectly states that 72 per cent of Toronto's Chinese-Canadian students apply to university compared to 42 per cent of those born in Canada. In fact, according to Toronto District School Board statistics, 72 per cent of Toronto students born in East Asia apply to university compared to 42 per cent of those born in Canada who speak English.

    Long admired for raising academic superstars, parents of Asian background are coming under fire from their own community for pushing their children into university programs for which many have no real interest or talent and often quit in distress.

    At a recent conference hosted by and for the GTA's Asian community, Chinese-Canadian educators and professionals warned some 300 parents in Mandarin, Cantonese and English to stop giving their children no other choice than professional courses such as engineering, medicine, accounting or pharmacy — programs for which some are so ill-equipped and uninterested they drop out, fail, get suspended for cheating or suffer depression and acute anxiety.

    And this growing Asian presence on campus is sparking concerns about the cultural balance within Canada's ivory tower, according to a report in Maclean's magazine's latest university rankings, to be released Wednesday.

  679. 2000 responses. Most of them expressing outrage and disappointment. Nice job Macleans!

    Tell the publisher what you think of this article, here:
    http://www.rogerspublishing.ca/about_us/contact.a…

    • A big chunk of racist white people have come out of the woodwork, too.

      This nightmare never ends; this is no different than what happened in 1979.

    • Yes, this is really a shame, not just for the authors of this infamous article and Macleans, but also for all of us.

  680. We need an opinion poll.

    1. How many white people agree with this article, how many disagree?
    2. How many non-white people agree with this article, how many disagree?

    • Many white people agree that the article is racist.

      It's also divisive. Let's not feed into that impulse. We are all Canadians here, regardless of race.

  681. “The kids were getting 98 per cent but they didn't have other skills,” – this comment made me laugh.

    I'm Vietnamese-Canadian. My parents sacrificed and worked as janitors in Canada to put me through school. On top of getting 98% in highschool & A+ in university, I volunteered & worked 30 hours per week all through highschool & university. So don't tell me that smart kids have no other skills. That's how I've become a doctor and am taking care of thousands of patients of all ethnicities. None of my patients ever complain that I'm too Asian.

    Maclean's needs to publish a formal letter of apology to the Asian-Canadian community for publishing this racist article else your company can be sued for promoting public racial discrimination against Asian. I don't mind using 3 months of my salary to seek legal service against Maclean's for inciting racial discrimination.

    • If you want financial assistance to mount a legal action against Maclean's I would me more than happy to contribute.

  682. They changed the title of this article from "Asians students being forced into university" because of the controversy it generated, and yet – this really makes me laugh – they forgot to the change the name of the webpage, which still has the old title! This shows how sloppy their work is. It is very typical of the quality of work in Canada.

  683. See what I've found, google cache still works:

    Author1 of article on MacLeans: Stephanie Findlay

    (Based on profile found http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/stephanie-findlay/a/9a… , now the profile is no longer available)

    She is a intern at Macleans! Surely a rising star in racist journalism!

    • Wow, you're quick! This has already been established many times throughout this forum. The author is completely entitled to her opinion,(which is that of many Canadians… maybe written somewhat poorly, but the issue she raises is a real one) you don't need to single her out and blame her.

      • Reporting is not about opinion. That's for editorial pieces or opinion pieces. This (i think) was supposed to be an impartial report.

      • And pray tell what is the "issue", exactly, Sophia?

      • Hi, Nice to see you here, Stephanie, you are a celebrity now! :-)

  684. http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/stephanie-findlay/a/9a… , now the profile is no longer available.

    Stephanie Findlay

    Current Staff at The Ubyssey
    Past Intern at Maclean's magazine
    Education The University of British Columbia
    ——————————————————————————–

    Stephanie Findlay's Experience
    Staff
    The Ubyssey
    (Privately Held; Newspapers industry)

    2007 — Present (3 years )

    Served as volunteer coordinator from 2007-2008.
    Was News Editor from 2008-2009.
    Staff member from 2009-2010.

    Intern
    Maclean's magazine
    (Media Production industry)

    May 2009 — August 2009 (4 months)

    Intern at Maclean's magazine

    ——————————————————————————–

    Stephanie Findlay's Education
    The University of British Columbia
    Bachelor of Arts , Political Science , 2006 — 2010

    Activities and Societies: The Ubyssey, Journalists for Human Rights, Lawyers Rights Watch Canada, Women and Gender Studies Undergraduate Association, Journal of International Affairs

  685. Why don't we have an alchol & party university, so all white kids that don't want to work hard can go there enjoy thier campus life, wouldn't that make everybody happier??

  686. A question that Macleans can not answer:

    The article's sub-title is 'Worries that efforts in the U.S. to limit enrollment of Asian students in top universities may migrate to Canada'. Now, in the article we can see that obviously the university authorities dismissed the idea of the universities being 'too Asian'. Here you can find the quotes here

    {
    …
    “This is a non-issue,” wrote U of T president David Naylor in an email. “We've never had a student complain about this. In fact, this is a false stereotype, as we know that Asian students are fully engaged in extracurricular activities. So the whole concept is false.”

    As Cheryl Misak, the U of T's VP and provost, puts it: “We have a properly diverse mix, with no particular group extra prominent—we're the rainbow nation and we've got every sort of student and everyone is on merit.” Waterloo president Feridun Hamdullahpur echoes a similar sentiment. “There is a great tendency in our society to learn more about other nations and other cultures,” he says. “Universities are the hotbed of these kind of activities. If you want to see more economic and political diversity, I think they star.”
    …
    }

    Since the university authorities know more than anyone else about the issues on campus, and they have no concern over the problem of having these Asian students, my question is, where did you get the idea about 'Worries that efforts in the U.S. to limit enrollment of Asian students in top universities may migrate to Canada'? Who is thinking about this stuff? Who is talking about this?

    Before this article titled 'Too Asian' published on Macleans, I never heard of or read anything about this 'Too Asian' issue. Could you explain, where did the 'worries' came from?

    • If you read the article carefully, the authors said that the university's official view as "self denial".

      • Now you see what is the problem? The authors are just playing God. No matter what the university officials say, they are still trying to say there's the 'issue'. Whom to trust?

        No wonder they come up with the subtitle, 'Worries that efforts in the U.S. to limit enrollment of Asian students in top universities may migrate to Canada'. I think they are just saying that they 'HOPE that efforts in the U.S. to limit enrollment of Asian students in top universities may migrate to Canada'

  687. You are free to write to Macleans to express your opinions on this matter:

    letters@macleans.ca

  688. You are free to write to Macleans to express your opinions on this matter:

  689. Totally agree.

    I'd prefer a doctor, a lawyer, or an engineer who knows what he/she is doing, rather than one who's better at drinking and partying.

    The purpose of this Maclean's article, 'Too Asian?', is to suggest giving free passes for white kids, rather than encouraging them to work their own way through to the universities. This is too dangerous.

  690. Once upon a time universities didn't allow anyone Asian – or anyone female to attend classes. You don't have to look too far back in the university photos that adorn university walls.

    There are voices who still think there are too many Asians and even too many women. Does that make Maclean's a forum to legitimate such voices?

    Let's not forget that Marc Lépine thought there were too many women at his school and took the lives of l4 women students on December 6, 1989

    I'm not saying people who agree there are “too many” Asians in university would do something that psychotic. But otherwise what is the difference in thinking?

    Lépine was motivated by his contempt for a demographic group (women), and was angered over his rejection at École Polytechnique where he felt that demographic group (women) took spots from men.

    • Now that you mentioned Marc Lépine, it really sends shiver down my spine. Let's hope that no one will hate Asians that much to carry out something like that at our universities or other public places.

  691. I wonder what STEPHANIE FINDLAY and NICHOLAS KOHLER were thinking when they wrote this article. It clearly is racist whether intended or not. Even more surprising is how it got published in Maclean's magazine. I guess all the asians should start sitting in the back of the bus to campuses now as that too would ensure an equal proportion of whites on board.

    • Findlay and Kohler could not have had this article published without editoral consent. The view of this article therefore represents the editorial view of the magazine itself.

  692. If you Google "Too Asian" – you'll only find Maclean's to top results. Curiously, Maclean's has not commented (not that i've found). No one at Maclean's is saying, "We stand by our story."

    • The fact that they continue to publish it means that they stand by their story.

  693. At least Lakeshore made a statement after dissing Jewish people.

  694. What about the Japanese?

  695. If you're waiting for an apology of any kind, it might be a few more weeks. After calling Quebec the "most corrupt" province in Canada, Maclean's apologized just over a month later, but only to Carnaval de Québec for "using an image of the carnival's snowman mascot to illustrate a story about corruption in Quebec."

    Maclean's seems to be very seasoned at faulty imaging.
    http://news.nationalpost.com/2010/11/06/macleans-…

  696. until Maclean's apologizes and retracts, I am boycotting the magazine and its parent company, Rogers.

    Rogers owns The Shopping Channel too and I am not going to support them.

    If you are doing the same, let them know on their feedback or Contact Us section on why you are cancelling or boycotting

  697. Vive la différence.

    I actually would consider learning new languages as a "social skill" in this globalized world (vs only knowing English).

    But no doubt, many people have phobias about new languages be it math, programming, Chinese or French (and many additionally translate that into some phobia of people or cultures associated with those languages). Others no doubt just have a phobia of people who "look" different – why Asians don't seem to be identified as Canadians but rather from China in this story. Most Chinese students are Canadian.

    Perhaps Maclean's should broaden staff skills to be more socially dexterous with other kinds of people who are a part of Canada – at least to the point of distinguishing between Chinese who are Canadian and Chinese who are from China.

    On peut écrire des nouvelles choses.

  698. Let's see. First Maclean's slags the entire Muslim popluation as deviants and terrorists, thanks to Mark Steyn. Then this year they stereotype Quebecers as predisposed to corruption, letting Rogers do the apologizing after the fact. And now, a huge story on how white kids are upset because some other kids who happen to be Asian work harder, get better grades and don't drink as much?? You are kidding, right? What happened to merit and fair play?

    Read Walrus. Read TIme. Boycott the rag that Maclean's Stains has become.

    • Yes, Macleans really downgraded itself into the toilet (if it was ever above the toilet level!)

      With such piece of crap proudly published by Macleans, do you think it is up to basic standards? Now I seriously doubt the quality of Maclean's publications.

      Glad that I never bought or subscribed to Macleans, and I don't think I'll do so in the future.

  699. I never bought one Macleans magazine when I went to university in my days, and after reading this article, I am glad I never did.

  700. Exactly! man you people are too much!! So now U of T goes from an elite school to a school that is “Elite but….” I guess that is why U of T cannot even buy a first place ranking in this very same Maclean;s University rankings anymore! Funny how it use to be consistently ranked number one a decade ago when U of T was still a nice “white” university but now its seen as “Asian” it could not beat McGill (one of the schools the white kids flock to as refuge from us Asians) for the number one spot if its life depended on it! Coincidence? You tell me. That’s all right we will send our kids to McGill as soon s we take all the spaces at U of T. To quote one of Canada’s great singer songwriters (with liberties taken): “first we take U of T, then we take McGiiiiiiiillll!” (yeha Chinese kids even know of Leonard Cohen crazy huh?), Oh then we will take Queens, and Western and..well u get the drift. There shall be no refuge from the sino surge!! Get use to it white Canada because the fact is the standard of living is being raised in Canada precisely because we contribute our talents hereto make everything better! Sorry if you cannot keep up to the high standards we set. Wow you people have moved on from discriminating against blacks and Arabs and now on to us huh? Well guess what? It is just NOT the same, Chinese know they have real power behind us..its called China! So do your worse..Elect Toronto’s Mayor “sinophobic” Ford, Tea Party Harper and that guy from the provincial conservatives in Ontario if you must, makes no difference. Fact is Canada and ALL other western nations needs China more than China needs them. So who is in the drivers seat tell me? Yellow as sunshine and loving it! (no we all dont wanna be white, bananas are so pre-super power Chinal)

  701. what a great article. so basically, we want to deter smart, hardworking students from pursuing higher education because they’re not drinking and partying hard enough, not very fun to hang with, have no “skills”, and/or they apparently have no life.
    okay. cool. i guess the next logical step is for corporates and governments to reduce/stop hiring smart, hardworking workers because they’re not drinking and partying hard enough, not very fun to hang with, have no “skills”, and/or they apparently have no life.

    wow. our society is so much better. where do we go from there? oh right. let’s change the immigration bar so that we only accept the dumbest, poorest, and laziest immigrants into the country, because the children of smart and diligent immigrants will edge our children out and take their spot in top universities.

    …

  702. Unfortunately, is true! I am a second year student at The University of Toronto and as a white person I feel to belong to a minority, 6 out of 10 students are Asians and makes me feel uncomfortable. In regard to how “smart” they are I strongly disagree because I know of cases in which they have to purchase their essays to outsider in order to do well because they do not control the English language properly. This is not a case of racism is a reality and as scholar we need to speak out and tell the truth. We do have too many asians in our schools. 

    • Speaking of controlling the English language properly, it sounds like you need to “purchase your essays to outsider” also. 

  703. This article still enrages me to this day. I’m completely shocked that a reputable magazine like Maclean’s would publish an article like this. For those university applicants/students who wish to go to university to party, drop out of school and empty out space for people who actually want an education. There is a time and place for fun and for work. If you’re not serious about your studies, someone else will take advantage of an opportunity that you have. None of the university websites or brochures advertise an “epic party life” for students. They promise great education, and learning that facilitates better opportunities for jobs. People who blame certain races for their inability to “have fun” should grow up before they step into the real world. Ignorant people.

  704. Odd, I’m Chinese-Canadian and I don’t see anything racist in this article. Did you guys even read it?

    Good or bad most of the things it says are true. It’s not calling for less Asians in universities, it’s not saying Asians don’t deserve the spots or any of the things people here claim. For those of you that failed reading comprehension, there is a difference between outlining a phenomenon and supporting said phenomenon.

    The problem with Western countries is that they can’t keep a rational head when race is mentioned. Nearly 2,000 comments here and no one has said anything worthwhile because they’re all raging about “racism” and “xenophobia.” Half the time they’re responding to posts that aren’t even racist at all. And sad to say there’s more than a few Asians here who are just as racist as the people they claim to hate. Dedede, you’re an embarassment. The world isn’t made of just you, and white people. Especially not Canada. Get a grip.

    Here’s an actual Asian viewpoint sans political correctness:

    University admissions should be based on pure merit. Affirmative action is prejudice no matter who it’s set against. Yes, Asians tend to be geeky and not as sociable, because we put our grades before all else. Why should we be punished for that? It’s our choice to put academics first, and I’d say it pays off later on in life. It is up to everyone else to compete. You wanna go to a party college, fine. Not my problem. But if anyone wants the best spots they’re gonna have to outscore the other kids. Your grades either cut it or they don’t. Simple as that. Race doesn’t even come into it.

    Peace

  705. tl;dr – topic is very offensive but I imagine the comments are more so.

  706. UBC got crossed off my list because of this. Even SMU & Dal might get the axe from me, bring on McGill & Concordia!

  707. torontonians are proud how their city is multicultural…. multiethnic……it is……… but it’s very segregated. it’s obvious that racism exists. dont think racism can ever go away. so what the heck. haha

    in regards to U of T having lots of asians, that is true. it simply is a university that is more close to home, less boarding fees/living costs i.e. UWO/queens. so of course it is more desired economically. in regards to asians being too competitive, how can they help not to be competitive? i thought high education is all about higher learning/achieving and competition…

    • filled and loaded with gangs. Want to get raped or shot move to toronto!

      • I went to Toronto as a tourist for 2 weeks, hanging around in bars late night, I never encountered gangs !

  708. Simple solution: Stop getting drunk and hit the books; 

  709. Big myth about Asians and their work ethic, intelligence etc.  India is the one of the worlds largest slum countries, poor infrastructrue, little/no help for poor people, racist, class strivin and corrupt.  It always has the begging bowl out.  These people dont stick around and try to fix this country, they run to the West so they dont have to.  The argument that North America was built by immigrants is spurious.  It was built by Blue Collar, hard working, take a risk immigrants.  None of these qualities is possessed by Asian Indians.  They will bring crime, disease, welfare dependency etc.  Not the ones at the Universities necessarily, but the brothers, sisters, children who follow them on Family based visas.  Dont fall for the number who are company directors etc.  If you want to expand in India, you have to put them on the Board, many directors own a car and become director of their driving school, or a gas station which they ‘Direct.’  Big mistake letting them take over the Universities.

    • Anyone who has been to India will tell you that all these problems exist on a large scale, but it is wildly untrue that “no one is trying to fix India”. All you need to do is look at the reaction of Indians to the gang rape that occurred in Delhi this year, there was a huge backlash in the papers. There is resentment against the caste system and a movement towards modernization, not everyone is onboard but many are. I understand that you don’t want other countries’ problems brought to yours but at the same time you are devaluing the work that a lot of people are doing in their home countries in Asia– white people are not the only ones who care about their communities. After the Industrial Revolution, European and North American slums were full of squalor and filth too, but things improved.

  710. There are too many girls in universities. Now that girls are beating boys in elementary test scores and high school scores, I believe that we should set quotas to the amount of girls that should be allowed into top high schools and universities. They are ruining the diversity of school life. I go into the hallways and all I hear is girly talk. I mean my teacher is making us do FEMINIST critiques WHAT IS THAT?!?!?! Men are great, men settled North America first. Also girls read too much. and they write alot. I don’t think they party or have any fun because when I’m watching the superbowl they aren’t there drinking next to me. CLEARLY they are toobusy studying. stupid girl nerds. Who cares if it’s because after years of oppression, girls feel they must work harder to receive the same recognition as men. Who cares if out in the workforce girls are getting paid less for the same job. GIRLS ARE GETTING INTO tooo many top unis and high schools. MY SPOTS that I am entitled to, not because I work hard (that’s dumb, we shouldn’t have this poisonous idea of working hard enter our society), but because I HAVE MORE TESTOSTERONE than them. Period.

    *this is not meant to be offensive to men. I realize that not all men believe this. this is merely a parody of some of the comments I’ve read have been saying and some of what’s being said in this article. Everyone’s so serious and getting so riled up. Relax. Go hydrate yourselves. Take a shower. Go skating. Watch a sunset. Then come and comment because it’s seriously like WWIII in here. Children who strive for the best will reap the consequences and benefits of that. Children who are more relaxed and easygoing will reap the benefits and consequences of that. There is no RIGHT way to live, there is no RIGHT race to be, there is no RIGHT gender to be. You just are who you are. Period.

  711. Am I understanding this right? Asian’s are now being looked down upon because they study too much and strive only for the best? What has our world come to?!

    Yes university life shouldn’t be just about academics but it should NOT be just about drinking, drugs and partying either. Why should my parents pay thousands of dollars for me to go to school and have me not reach my full potential, all because I want to party?

    I’m Asian Canadian and I agree that it’s wrong for international or “mainland” students to just mingle with their own race and talk only in their language. I hate it when I see them do that as well. I just think we’re looking at race too strictly. Yes I’m Asian but I don’t go around refusing to talk to and befriend someone just because they’re not my race. I see them as just a potential friend, no race or label attached. I don’t see why it’s so hard to be friends with someone of another race, they’re still a normal average human being with a personality and feelings.This article makes me so angry. I feel like the Asian race is being discriminated just because we want to study hard and not waste our parents money. I’m sorry that I can’t justify flushing thousands of my parents hard earned dollars down the toilet just so that I can drink and have fun with friends. Yes I have a healthy social life, I go out and party when I can but academics is an important part of my life as well and it will always, ALWAYS have priority over partying and not because it’s what my parents want but because my parents are paying good money for this opportunity. That shouldn’t be what makes me Asian, it’s what any normal, moral person should be thinking. You’re not a kid any more once you go to university, time to grow up and focus on more important things than partying. In all honesty, I think our Western values need serious change and reconsideration. When did partying and drinking take priority over academics and values.

  712. Anyone can get an A if they study 8 hours a day.  I barely ever studied and managed to pull A’s in school.  I’m white, I partied, smoked weed, did all that crazy stuff but kept a handle on things.  Memorization does not equal being smart, I work with people from all races that have no clue what they are doing or the reasoning behind it, they just memorize the steps without even a clue of what it represents or why it is required.

  713. ;)

  714. Asians don’t party??hahaha I’m Asian and asians I know party more than white kids, and guess what? we’re still going to UT or Waterloo, and guess what? We’re still gonna party! and guess what? we’re still graduating with decent grades! Stop blaming personal problems on race white folks, we’re one big family. got any math/sci problems? ask. time management is the key.

  715. Macleans magazine is racist yet again….what a surprise (sarcasm)

  716. The problem for me isn’t about grades. I’m Caucasian and have competed fairly well here at UofT, maintaining a 3.5 GPA after two years. What I don’t like is the social life….it’s damn pathetic. You look around and all you see is people hanging out with their own races; that’s all fine- but what if you’re white? All the sudden, there’s no one for you to hang out with. You could try joining a club….but oh wait, you have no place in the majority of them; they all seem to be for Asians, Muslims, Indians, etc. As a white person, you will struggle like hell to find your niche at UofT.

    I like the designer UofT label, but it’s not worth ruining my experience; for that, I will be attending Queens next fall.

    • What if you’re black and you’re the only black person in a class? At least whites (and just ppl born / raised in Canada in general) will talk to you and try to befriend you. Here you’re just the dude they dont even look at. They just talk in Mandarin WHEN YOU’RE SUPPOSED TO BE WORKING TOGETHER IN A GROUP and you’re the ONLY one that doesn’t speak MANDARIN in your group. Its annoying.

      Also, I think new asian immigrants have some stereotypes of blacks that maybe makes them avoid us. On the 1st day of last fall semester Im walking around a pretty empty part of campus and I swear some asian girls ran into a nearby building when they saw me. I pretty much feel like an alien.

  717. White people have every advantage in the system, and they’re always the first to cry when they get outworked by someone else.
    P.S. You know “Alexandra” and “Rachel” are going to end up having to suck someone’s dick just to get a job as a waitress.

  718. Jesus Christ, this thread really loves anecdotes.

  719. The sentiment expressed in this article is clearly racist towards Asians; the sense of White entitlement is so obvious it’s ridiculous.

    So the premise is that White students feel “threatened” by Asian students because they are taking “their” spots in university? That they had plans to drink and party throughout university, but now those poor hopes are crushed because they will now have to actually work and study hard to compete with hardworking Asian students? Gimme a break!

    Firstly, White students aren’t “entitled” to anything — they have to work hard for what they want like the rest of us. Secondly, we’re talking about university here — the academics are SUPPOSED to be rigorous because that’s the very point of higher education. Seriously, why do these White students feel like Asians are taking “their” spots/jobs? It’s not theirs; they have to earn them. Why they feel like they’re entitled to them just because of their skin colour or family lineage is beyond me. Most of the Asian students here were also born in this country, so, having citizenship, they are indeed every bit as “Canadian” as White students with citizenship (alongside the fact that there are ALSO plenty of White-identified international students as well, not only international Asian students).

    Or do these White students feel entitled simply because their family lineage has been around in this country for a longer time? If so, then it would logically follow that Native Aboriginals are the ones who should feel entitled, not Whites (who could be seen to be the “immigrants” when compared to the Aboriginals who resided in this country before them).

    Seriously, the points raised in this article have constituted nothing but an irrational racist rant by lazy White students and their families against well-deserving Asian students. (But I will add that by making this article and its title so controversial, the editors have done their job of attracting readership. They must be SO happy for having published such a stupid article because, well hey, at least it generated more readership for Macleans! I have lost my respect for this magazine.)

  720. I am a U of T student and I have to say I largely agree with this article. There are “too many” asians at my university. I find the same sentiment among many of the non-asian population at the university. I don’t dislike asians but I do find them to be very unfriendly and anti-social. They only speak amongst themselves, often in their language. In most of my classes, the asian population is well over 80% AT LEAST. It makes for a very unpleasant university experience. If you want to have fun in university and meet new people, do not come to U of T

    • It’s not just Asians, everyone acts unfriendly towards you. It’s hard to believe, but nobody would want to befriend a piece of shit like you.

  721. I don’t see anything racist about this article.

    I am an Asian-Canadian and I agree with, and have seen first hand, many of the opinions that have been expressed by the writer. The writer is just trying to paint a picture of the current situation that exists for Canadian universities at the moment. As a UBC student, I have found that in my classes there are always a good handful of students that are of Asian decent, and receive top grades, yet barely speak English, and have nothing to offer future employers in terms of practical and social skills. In group projects they often sit there dazed and unaware of how to utilize their academic knowledge in ways that can be applied practically. Other members usually have to pick up for their lack of ability. I am NOT saying this is ALL students of Asian descent.. it is just common that people who are like this tend to be Asian.

    Also regarding the fact that Asians and Whites segregate themselves socially… I can tell you that is true and that there is not much that can be done. People tend to stick to their own cultural group because it is a place where they feel they most belong. How is it racist to state a fact such as this?

    The ONLY suggestion that the writer suggests, is that the universities can do more to encourage intermingling of different cultures, which is a-ok in my books. If you think this article is racist, then you are being way too sensitive. The writer is merely stating FACTS about the current situation that many universities are facing.

  722. My nephew is extremely bright and white. He has found no employment in the past year so he volunteers at a hospital. He is awaiting acceptance into medical school. He was advanced in high school by 2 years and never studied. Its highly unfair that foreign people will have equal or more access to medical school than he would just because they are not white. Our family is here since 1630 therefore we should have more rights than newcomers who come from foreign lands and have nothing to do with our country or culture.

    • Hello racist. Why m I calling you racist? Because of your assumption that someone of asian descent = “foreign people”?

    • Your nephew might be bright by your low standards, but in the real world, he’s clearly not good enough. He can always earn a living bagging groceries.

  723. This comment was deleted.

    • Ironically, asians are indian in Europe. And technically, India is in Asia… so you’re fucking yourself? Somehow I don’t think that’s a sign of Indian intelligence…

  724. So racism is bad, unless it’s against asians? Nice.

  725. The western world is fed up with Asian Indians. They bring their third world scams, their third world fertility rates, their extended third world families who seek benefits and healthcare without ever having paid any dues. Despite their PR, they do not take risks, rarely start up businesses, but more likely head for pencil pushing, risk free government jobs. No country that has any sizable population of these people has escaped slums, crime and welfare dependency. No country wants them.

  726. Being a Canadian is not about white or black. It is about having a work ethic, Christian values, law abiding etc. Very few of the immigrants from Asia and Jamaica have any of these ethics. Jamaicans are notorious for violence and producing illegitimate, welfare dependent children; Asians are notorious for producing slums. It is about values, not about skin colour. Read the news from Toronto and you will quicly see how these people have reduced a safe, clean city to an unsafe and even a slummy city. Pity really, our reputation in the world has suffered.

    • I’m surprised you know what Toronto looks like considering you never leave your mom’s basement.

  727. Just read in the Toronto Star that some Chinese student has
    a 100% GPA in Grade 12 and all courses are in the internal bacc. program + he
    is a master table tennis player and teaches professional TT players…he studies
    4 hrs per day, every day, after school and doesn’t use the internet for social interaction, such as facebook, emailing etc. because it distracts him from his studies.
    Apparently he memorized the Dr. Seuss books when he was 3 yrs old. He wants to
    go to medical school
    I have personally seen Chinese at the Reference library in
    their 100’s all day Saturdays and all day Sundays. Very strong pressure is put
    on the Chinese kids to academically produce by the parents and not so much emphasis on socialization, friendship, networking and social skills it seems.
    None of that bothers me, but what does bother me is that the
    student ( white or otherwise) who gets a 80% avg, plays sports, goes to
    parties, has many friends and personal interests and would be an excellent
    doctor…will likely never get the chance.
    Is there going to be resentment when we wake up to the fact
    that in order to get into professional school these days, you have to be
    super-human with top notch grades? How fair is that? And has someone produced a
    study that says geniuses make better doctors?? I would have thought their social skills and bedside manner with patients might suffer.
    Solution I think universities need to change their criteria
    of acceptance to that other than just grades, they say they do but they don’t.
    Many times we have lawyers that can’t speak in court, or patients that can’t
    understand the doctors. How does the high GPA help that problem? It doesn’t. Perhaps if All kids got a well rounded education it would be beneficial for the geniuses too.

    • Sorry, most people actually want doctors who know what they’re doing. You might be happy with a mediocre doctor, but the rest of us would prefer a doctor who’s actually competent.

  728. White people are racist? I’m deeply shocked.

  729. Well my question is in terms of “Asian” are they referring more to Canadian born Asian students or are you talking about international students? I’ am asking this because at the University of Toronto there are lots of Asian students but I will say this now you can see a big different between those born and raised in Canada and those who were born and raised in China (I say China because they are the majority at The University of Toronto). I mean you would not believe how much the Canadian born Asians I know can drink and party, it rivals that of the sterotypical perception that white people are the “party animals”. Now if we’re talking about Asian students not born and raised in Canada they don’t party much… but when this article talks about grades and how Asians have the best grades I laughed because that’s only a half truth. Sure there must be many with high grades and many with low or mediocre grades, but do you really think the reason why some Universities are too Asian is because of grades. Sorry to burst a bubble or two but it’s because they have the money. Look the most recent stats on international students enrolled at the University of Toronto. About 5000 are Chinese students, the rest of countries shown in the stats had students in numbers ranging from 30-200, except India which has about 600. Do you honestly think a University would choose a domestic student who pays say 8,000 a year in tuition compared to that of an international student who has to pay 20,000 Canadian or more a year. Students at University are just cattle to them all they see are dollar signs. Honestly would you take in 5000 international students who have to pay double or triple that of the tuition of a domestic student over 5000 domestic students? Not that hard of a choice if you ask me in terms of profiting. I mean come on most of you must have seen it these international students they have money to burn especially the international Chinese ones I know. They come to school driving Bmws’ and Mercedes, wearing nothing but designer clothing, and having Gucci wallets and Prada bags, drinking Starbucks every hour. -____- Come one people this isn’t about grades any more this is about how much money you have and the international Asians they have more that enough. Also this “Chinese are being bullied” part is a joke they bully domestic students in their own language. I’v experienced it first hand if I wasn’t with my Chinese friend who was born and raised in Canada I would never had known that to international Chinese students I’m ugly as sin and the way I dress is so bad but it must be because I’m dirt poor. Glad my friend knew how to speak Cantonese that day so she could translate for me. I would have never been the wiser if she had not pointed out that they were talking trash about me and her. People think that North Americans are racist and that if you are a minority you will be subjected to racism by the majority well sorry to say it works both ways. If you can speak in another language that the native population can’t understand or speak it makes it a lot easier to be racist and rude when the people you are doing it to can not understand what the hell your saying.
    At the end of the day money talks and nothing else really matters not even your GPA when it comes to competing against an international student for a spot at a University.