The enrollment controversy*

Worries that efforts in the U.S. to limit enrollment of Asian students in top universities may migrate to Canada


When Alexandra and her friend Rachel, both graduates of Toronto’s Havergal College, an all-girls private school, were deciding which university to go to, they didn’t even bother considering the University of Toronto. “The only people from our school who went to U of T were Asian,” explains Alexandra, a second-year student who looks like a girl from an Aritzia billboard. “All the white kids,” she says, “go to Queen’s, Western and McGill.”

Alexandra eventually chose the University of Western Ontario. Her younger brother, now a high school senior deciding where he’d like to go, will head “either east, west or to McGill”—unusual academic options, but in keeping with what he wants from his university experience. “East would suit him because it’s chill, out west he could be a ski bum,” says Alexandra, who explains her little brother wants to study hard, but is also looking for a good time—which rules out U of T, a school with an academic reputation that can be a bit of a killjoy.

Or, as Alexandra puts it—she asked that her real name not be used in this article, and broached the topic of race at universities hesitantly—a “reputation of being Asian.”

Discussing the role that race plays in the self-selecting communities that more and more characterize university campuses makes many people uncomfortable. Still, an “Asian” school has come to mean one that is so academically focused that some students feel they can no longer compete or have fun. Indeed, Rachel, Alexandra and her brother belong to a growing cohort of student that’s eschewing some big-name schools over perceptions that they’re “too Asian.” It’s a term being used in some U.S. academic circles to describe a phenomenon that’s become such a cause for concern to university admissions officers and high school guidance counsellors that several elite universities to the south have faced scandals in recent years over limiting Asian applicants and keeping the numbers of white students artificially high.

Although university administrators here are loath to discuss the issue, students talk about it all the time. “Too Asian” is not about racism, say students like Alexandra: many white students simply believe that competing with Asians—both Asian Canadians and international students—requires a sacrifice of time and freedom they’re not willing to make. They complain that they can’t compete for spots in the best schools and can’t party as much as they’d like (too bad for them, most will say). Asian kids, meanwhile, say they are resented for taking the spots of white kids. “At graduation a Canadian—i.e. ‘white’—mother told me that I’m the reason her son didn’t get a space in university and that all the immigrants in the country are taking up university spots,” says Frankie Mao, a 22-year-old arts student at the University of British Columbia. “I knew it was wrong, being generalized in this category,” says Mao, “but f–k, I worked hard for it.”

That Asian students work harder is a fact born out by hard data. They tend to be strivers, high achievers and single-minded in their approach to university. Stephen Hsu, a physics prof at the University of Oregon who has written about the often subtle forms of discrimination faced by Asian-American university applicants, describes them as doing “disproportionately well—they tend to have high SAT scores, good grades in high school, and a lot of them really want to go to top universities.” In Canada, say Canadian high school guidance counsellors, that means the top-tier post-secondary institutions with international profiles specializing in math, science and business: U of T, UBC and the University of Waterloo. White students, by contrast, are more likely to choose universities and build their school lives around social interaction, athletics and self-actualization—and, yes, alcohol. When the two styles collide, the result is separation rather than integration.

The dilemma is this: Canadian institutions operate as pure meritocracies when it comes to admissions, and admirably so. Privately, however, many in the education community worry that universities risk becoming too skewed one way, changing campus life—a debate that’s been more or less out in the open in the U.S. for years but remains muted here. And that puts Canadian universities in a quandary. If they openly address the issue of race they expose themselves to criticisms that they are profiling and committing an injustice. If they don’t, Canada’s universities, far from the cultural mosaics they’re supposed to be—oases of dialogue, mutual understanding and diversity—risk becoming places of many solitudes, deserts of non-communication. It’s a tough question to have to think about.

Asian-Canadian students are far more likely to talk about and assert their ethnic identities than white students. “I’m Asian,” says 21-year-old Susie Su, a third-year student at UBC’s Sauder School of Business. “I do have traditional Asian parents. I feel the pressure of finding a good job and raising a good family.” That pressure helps shape more than just the way Su handles study and school assignments; it shapes the way she interacts with her colleagues. “If I feel like it’s going to be an event where it’s all white people, I probably wouldn’t want to go,” she says. “There’s a lot of just drinking. It’s not that I don’t like white people. But you tend to hang out with people of the same race.”

Catherine Costigan, a psychology assistant prof at the University of Victoria, says it’s unsurprising that Asian students are segregated from “mainstream” campus life. She cites studies that show Chinese youth are bullied more than their non-Asian peers. As a so-called “model minority,” they are more frequently targeted because of being “too smart” and “teachers’ pets.” To counter peer ostracism and resentment, Costigan says Chinese students reaffirm their ethnicity.

The value of education has been drilled into Asian students by their parents, likely for cultural and socio-economic reasons. “It’s often described that Asians are the new Jews,” says Jon Reider, director of college counselling at San Francisco University High School and a former Stanford University admissions officer. “That in the face of discrimination, what you do is you study. And there’s a long tradition in Chinese culture, for example, going back to Confucius, of social mobility based on merit.”

*This article was originally titled “‘Too Asian’?” For our response to the controversy it has generated, click here.

Demographics contribute to the high degree of academic success among Asian-Canadian students. “Our highly selective immigration process means that we get many highly educated parents, so they have similar aspirations for their children,” says Robert Sweet, a retired Lakehead University education prof who has studied the parenting styles of immigrants as they relate to education. Sweet’s latest study, “Post-high school pathways of immigrant youth,” released last month, found that more than 70 per cent of students in the Toronto District School Board who immigrated from East Asia went on to university, compared to 52 per cent of Europeans, the next highest group, and 12 per cent of Caribbean, the lowest. This is in contrast to English-speaking Toronto students born in Canada—of which just 42 per cent confirmed admission to university.

Diane Bondy, a recently retired Ottawa-area guidance counsellor, notes that by the end of her 20-year career, competition among some Asian parents had reached a fever pitch. “Asian parents do their homework and the students are going to U of T or they’re going to Queen’s,” says Bondy, who points out that “Asians get more support from their parents financially and academically.” She also observed that the focus on academics was often to the exclusion of social interaction. “The kids were getting 98 per cent but they didn’t have other skills,” she says. “Their parents would come in and write in the resumé letters that they were in clubs. But the kids weren’t able to do anything in those clubs because they were academically focused.”

Students can carry that narrow scope into university, where they risk alienating their more fun-loving peers. The division is perhaps most extreme at Waterloo, where students have dubbed the MC and DC buildings—the Mathematics & Computer Building and the William G. Davis Computer Research Centre, respectively—“mainland China” and “downtown China,” and where some students told Maclean’s they can go for days without speaking English. Writes one Waterloo mathematics graduate on an online forum: “I once had a tutorial session for the whole class where the TA got frustrated with speaking English and started giving the answer in Mandarin. A lot of the class understood his answer.”

“My dad said if you don’t go into engineering, I won’t pay your tuition,” says Jason Yin, a Taiwanese software engineering student at Waterloo. “They are very traditional. They believe school is about work, studying, go home and studying some more.” Hard-studying Waterloo lends itself particularly to those goals. “We had a problem getting students out of their bedrooms,” says Nikki Best, a former residence don who sits on Waterloo’s student government, who explains they “didn’t want to get behind in their grades because of coming out to social events.”

That’s not to say Asian students form any sort of monolithic presence on Canadian campuses. “The mainland China group tends to stick together,” says Anthony Wong, 19, a Waterloo software engineering student. “We can talk to them,” says Jonathan Ing, also 19 and in Waterloo’s software engineering program, “but we don’t mingle.” Complains Waterloo student Simon Wang, a Chinese national who is frustrated by the segregation at Waterloo: “Why bother to come to Canada and pay five times as much to speak Chinese?” Meanwhile, Calgarian Joyce Chau identifies as “completely whitewashed,” a “banana”: “I look Asian but I’m white in all other respects.” Chau, a 19-year-old UBC business student, lived in residence her first year, where she met the majority of her (white) friends. “It’s harder to integrate into a group with Asians—you may or may not get introduced,” says Chau, who accepts the segregation as just “part of the university experience.”

Such balkanization is reflected in official student organizations: there is little Asian representation on student government, campus newspapers or college radio stations. At UBC, where the student body is roughly 40 per cent Asian, not one Asian sits on the student executive. Same goes for Waterloo. Asian students do, however, participate in organizations beyond the university mainstream, and long-standing cultural clubs function as a sort of ad hoc government. “After you graduate you won’t care about student government, but you’ll care about your club,” says Stan He, president of the Dragon Seed Connection, an on-campus Chinese club with over 300 members. (His business cards feature both dragon and robot motifs.) The Dragon Seed offers its members social functions, tutoring help, volunteer opportunities, poker and mah-jong tournaments, and special holiday parties—including at Halloween and Christmas. It even has an exclusive partnership with Solid Entertainment, a promotions and events-planning company that sponsors massive fundraising events and gives Dragon Seed exclusive selling rights on campus. He says that the dozen or so Asian clubs at UBC serve well over 4,000 students and cater to the whole spectrum of cultural identification—from “whitewashed” to “Honger,” a once-pejorative term now adopted by students with Hong Kong backgrounds. The Dragon Seed lies somewhere in between—“We’re the middle ground,” He says. “We have international students, but we all speak English.”

Or take the Chinese Varsity Club. With upwards of 500 members, it’s the largest student social club at UBC. The executives say they’ve captured a niche market: Chinese commuter students from the outlying Richmond, Burnaby and North Vancouver communities who hope to find a social network at the big school. “Students from high school already hear about us from older brothers and sisters,” says Peter Yang, the 21-year-old accounting student who is the club’s VP external. “You want to break out of the cycle of studying and being lonely,” says Brian Cheung, its president.

The impact of high admissions rates for Asian students has been an issue for years in the U.S., where high school guidance counsellors have come to accept that it’s just more difficult to sell their Asian applicants to elite colleges. In 2006, at its annual meeting, the National Association for College Admission Counseling explored the issue in an expert panel discussion called “Too Asian?” One panellist, Rachel Cederberg—an Asian-American then working as an admissions official at Colorado College—described fellow admissions officers complaining of “yet another Asian student who wants to major in math and science and who plays the violin.” A Boston Globe article early this year asked, “Do colleges redline Asian-Americans?” and concluded there’s likely an “Asian ceiling” at elite U.S. universities. After California passed Proposition 209 in 1996 forbidding affirmative action in the state’s public dealings, Asians soared to 40 per cent of the population at public universities, even though they make up just 13 per cent of state residents. And U.S. studies suggest Ivy League schools have taken the issue of Asian academic prowess so seriously that they’ve operated with secret quotas for decades to maintain their WASP credentials.

In his 2009 book No Longer Separate, Not Yet Equal, Princeton University sociologist Thomas Espenshade surveyed 10 elite U.S. universities and found that Asian applicants needed an extra 140 points on their SAT scores to be on equal footing with white applicants. Scandals over such unfair admissions practices have surfaced in recent years at Stanford, Harvard University, the University of California at Berkeley and elsewhere. Hsu, the Oregon physicist, draws a comparison between Asian-Americans and Jewish students who began arriving at the Ivy League in the first half of the last century. “You can find well-documented internal discussions at places like Harvard and Yale and Princeton about why we shouldn’t admit these people, they’re working so hard and they’re so obviously ambitious, but we want to keep our WASP pedigree here.”

To quell the influx of Jewish students, Ivy League schools abandoned their meritocratic admissions processes in favour of one that focused on the details of an applicant’s private life—questions about race, religion, even about the maiden name of an applicant’s mother. Schools also began looking at such intangibles as character, personality and leadership potential. Canadian universities, apart from highly competitive professional programs and faculties, don’t quiz applicants the same way, and rely entirely on transcripts. Likely that is a good thing. And yet, that meritocratic process results, especially in Canada’s elite university programs, in a concentration of Asian students.

The upshot is that race is defining Canadian university campuses in a way it did not 25 years ago. Diversity has enriched these schools, but it has also put them at risk of being increasingly fractured along ethnic lines. It’s a superficial form of multiculturalism that is expressed in the main through segregated, self-selecting, discrete communities. It would behoove the leadership of our universities to recognize these issues and take them seriously. And yet, that’s exactly what’s not happening. Indeed, discussions with Canada’s top university presidents reveal for the most part that they are in a state of denial.

“This is a non-issue,” wrote U of T president David Naylor in an email. “We’ve never had a student complain about this. In fact, this is a false stereotype, as we know that Asian students are fully engaged in extracurricular activities. So the whole concept is false.”

As Cheryl Misak, the U of T’s VP and provost, puts it: “We have a properly diverse mix, with no particular group extra prominent—we’re the rainbow nation and we’ve got every sort of student and everyone is on merit.” Waterloo president Feridun Hamdullahpur echoes a similar sentiment. “There is a great tendency in our society to learn more about other nations and other cultures,” he says. “Universities are the hotbed of these kind of activities. If you want to see more economic and political diversity, I think they star.”

These positions arguably represent a missed opportunity. Universities have the potential of establishing real cultural change. It makes sense that the head of the Canadian university with perhaps the highest number of Asian students is the most candid and the most concerned. Indeed, Stephen Toope has, since his arrival in 2006 as UBC president, made the issue central to his agenda—including outreach and newspaper op-ed pieces touting the importance of making the university campus a meeting place not only of diversity but also of dialogue.

Among Canadian universities, UBC is one of the few institutions that publishes the ethnic makeup of its student body. Toope says that the university’s Asian student population is not “widely out of whack with the community,” although the stats tell a slightly different story. According to a 2009 UBC report on direct undergraduate entrants, 43 per cent of its students self-identify as ethnically Chinese, Korean or Japanese, as compared to 38 per cent who self-identify as white. Although Vancouver is a richly diverse city, according to data from the 2006 census, just 21.5 per cent of its residents identify as a Chinese, Korean or Japanese visible minority.

Toope says drawing the various communities present on Canadian campuses into a common medium can be challenging. “Across Canada it isn’t always the case that you’re seeing as much engagement from the new communities as perhaps we should,” he says. Toope uses the experience of Turkish immigrants in Germany as a cautionary tale—“there are groups that never find a way to participate in the broader community.” Such circumstances persist precisely because the issue of race is not attacked head on. “I don’t want to pretend that just because you have people from different backgrounds they’re going to interact—they’re not,” Toope says. “We have to actually create mechanisms, programs and opportunities for people to interact. A university is one of the places that has the greatest capacity to work through demographic change.”

Toope points us in the right direction. It’s unfair to change the meritocratic entry system, so all universities can do—all they should do—is encourage groups to mingle. Though it’s true that universities—U of T and Waterloo included—do have diversity programs and policies for students, newer, fresher ways are needed to help pry the ethnic ghettos open so everyone hangs out together. Or at least they have the chance to. The white kids may not find it’s too Asian after all. Alexandra, who chose to go to Western for the party scene, found she “hated being away from home” and moved back to Toronto. In retrospect, she didn’t like the vibe. “Some people just want to drink 23 hours a day.” Alexandra says she still has friends at Western who live in an “all-blond house” and are “stick thin.” Rachel, Alexandra’s friend, says Western suits them—“they work hard, get good grades, then slap on their clubbing clothes.” But it didn’t suit Alexandra. She now studies at U of T.


The enrollment controversy*

  1. "Post-high school pathways of immigrant youth,…found that more than 70 per cent of students in the Toronto District School Board who immigrated from East Asia went on to university, compared to 52 per cent of Europeans, the next highest group, and 12 per cent of Caribbean, the lowest. "

    This seems to be directly correlated to crime statistics too. Is this such a bad thing that Asian parents are expecting their children strive for the best?

    • Good questions to ask!!

    • what happened to South Asia?

    • Getting 98% in every subject misses the point of "an education". In society it is not the brainiest that get the power sceptre. It is those who have enough brains to figure out how to access power and keep it. The parents of these students have missed the boat – pardon the pun. I feel bad for them and for the country.

      I was one of these people 40 years ago – and am not Asian. What it brought me was a lack of political skills in social groups that have plagued me every since then. These kids are headed in the same direction. That is a missed opportunity for the universities to "broaden" the perspective of these kids.

      I bet that these top Asian students are headed for their big shake down too.

    • While this is a stupid comment… it may sadly be true sooner then we think… it's a known fact that white people are not reproducing in sustainable numbers… like it or not the Chinese have us beat when it comes to numbers.. what will happen when China runs out of resources? Canada is awash in natural resources and has a tiny fraction of the world's population… think the premise of a Chinese invasion will never happen? I guarantee you this guy isn't the only one in China that thinks like this… the all mighty Communist Chinese leaders are doubt very well aware of this sentiment, they are just playing their cards slowly… building up resources so to speak… China has a standing army over a million strong…. Canada has….. nothing? hmmm….

      • It;s not that white people aren't reproducing enough, it's that chinese people reproduce in ridiculous amounts!

        • absolutely wrong, look at the stats.

      • Then why do they come to study here? Why not study in japan or an asian country with a similar race??

    • yeah those stupid white people sure have never created anything innovative over the last hundred years… us morons

    • what's a real Canadian? white? there are lots of Asians (and other visible minorities) who have been here since the laste 1800's early 1900's. There are also lots of white resident who were born in countries such as UK or US but immigrated to Canada later in their life, maybe as late as the 2000's. I ask you: WHO IS THE REAL CANADIAN HERE?

      • Real Canadians are probably the Indigenous people of Canada that were here before the Europeans came over and essentially stripped the land from them (i.e Native tribes and such). Most people are too ignorant to realize this fact…sad but true

        • Then they don’t deserve universities if you think that way, since universities were built by white people. Everyone keeps saying the indigenous are the real Canadians, but it was white people who built North America into advanced, first world countries. If they never came to North America, there would be no appeal in Canada (won’t exist) because it would still be harbored by indigenous and living in a relatively primitive age compared to the rest of the world. They couldn’t adapt to a changing world, so they got wiped out. It’s a fact of life, and it’s been this way since the beginning of time.

          • you are being ridiculous, Mike!! How could you make such a statement of ‘adaptation’ and ‘wiped out’ in knowing nothing about adaptation and fitness? Your argument is even equivalent to the Nazi’s claim about races.. I cannot believe more modern more civilized ‘first world’ people saying things like this!! 

          • Testing

    • Canadian : Asina and Euro, and Africa.///

    • Many Europeans join the trades, go to college
      European parents are more open minded towards their childrens goals.  
      Asians are very narrow minded when it comes to career goals for their children.

  2. The entire premise of the article is just to stir racial prejudice.
    The Media, routinely complains about how minority communities, need more help, are involved in gangs, violence and fail to assimilate.
    Now the asian groups assimilate quite well and outperform white Canadian students, and so Macleans runs to their rescue and focuses on them?

    This is ridiculous, if they want to work hard, make money, pay their taxes, let them! Who are we to stop them for doing so?
    My God! What have we come to?
    Are we afraid of immigrants adopting our values and working hard.

    • This article is 100% about racism. Canada is a multicultural country, every student no matter white or Asian, can choose the university they want to go. If they don't work hard enough to get to University, this is their own choice. The world has been changing, does anyone remember that Obama advised teenagers to reduce time on video games and concentrate on their studies? Everyone needs to work hard to compete with each other. Does Canadian also work hard to compete with other countries, too? Otherwise, we all lose our jobs.

      • this article is about cross-cultural assimilation challenges, possible solutions, and (of course) warnings.

        racism would be if there were practices in place to either measure (and reward), or actively (by will or regulation) aim for a specific proportionality of students based on ethnicity.

        personally, i think the biggest danger is it makes the economy less nimble and organic if such a large percentage of students are graduating with essentially a groupthink.

        a lot of folks dont realize that in a well-developed country, it is possible to live a very comfortable life of harmony, fulfillment, and reward with any profession that you sincerely work at. despite economic cycles. you dont have to kill yourself for a few dollars more…its not worth it. its not a race.

        you only have to look at folks that have broken away from their group's groupthink.

        • It`s not a race?? Well, tell that to the rest of the world, you loser… Tell that to the 2 billions up and coming Indians and Chinese…Pls read the 'World is Flat' before you open type !

        • I'm sorry, so how is having 40% Asian more prone to producing groupthink than having 40% WASPS in universities?
          No one would be complaining about universities being "too white".
          Killing yourself for a few dollars more? How about killing yourself for new technological developments? Medical developments?

          • Technology will be the end of us. The world needs disease because it is so over-populated! Just live a simple, natural life; greed is what will kill us, and technology is greed.

        • You could say Japan and Korea are country-level examples of groupthink. They've done very well by it.

          • Ever been to Japan or Korea? I lived in Japan in high school and I can tell you, it's not the glorious tech-savvy groupthink-ing dynamo it might be thought of as.

            Because of groupthink, the CEO of Sony had to fight, tooth and nail, to release the Sony Walkman back in the 80s, because the rest of his "group" of supposedly smart presidents and office types said that it was too risky and would probably flop.

            It's the same reason why soooo many Japanese and Korean children really do want to learn English, but don't learn it to near the extent of those in other countries. They are too afraid to take any risks. If one is wrong, it is ridicule.

          • TBC, I'm well aware of the cultural limitations in many Asian countries of not wanting to be the nail that gets pounded down. My point, is that despite that, the standard of living in Japan and Korea is very high, that groupthink isn't such a serious problem as to relegate a country to poverty and international obscurity.

          • For a moment, I thought you were talking about Hollywood executives with their BAD movies and all those bankruptcies and business failures in North America.

            You want me to talk about that? 1 trillion times more messed-up than Japan!!!

        • very well said

        • Groupthink? Are you implying that all Asians at Canadian universities think alike?

          I think that it makes the economy "less nimble and organic" if the brightest and most hardworking students are not allowed to climb to the top based on merit!

          Really, I have no idea what you're trying to say in this comment. It makes no sense.

      • That is meritocracy …That is the core principle of democracy, you can be and will achieve whatever you want, as long as you strive for it! If not, what`s the difference between apartheid and all other race-based caste systems that the West had tried so hard to champion against?? The traffic flows both ways and not only in your favor! If you can`t (or not willing to) compete, then stay on the sidelines and watch quietly…Losers!

      • Stopping immigration will only mean that you are afraid of what Chinese people are capable of doing. This whole world is a bug competition of itself. If you study hard, then you get to go to high-recognition schools. If you dont, then that is your lost. When it comes to university admission, it is mainly base on grades. Race is not involved. If there is a large population of Chinese people who are 'smart' becuase they sacrifice their time and devoted thier time to studying, then they will be admitted to an university.

        For people who say that there is "too many asians," they are just blaming race for their own misfortunes.

        • I'm a student at uvic – profs give ESL students "extra room for spelling and grammar errors" on assignments and exams, which skews the grading. Why do they have to study hard in canada? Can they not study just as hard in their own country? FIne, move to canada, but then BE Canadian. IE speak french or english. Canadian Citizenships are distributed as bonuses and incentives in businesses in China. Citizenship here should be for people who earn it and appreciate it.

          • I stopped reading after you said you went to UVic.

          • Is Uvic not "asian" enough for you?

          • Competition is harder there. If they come here, then what's not to say they believe education is better here? What have YOU done to "earn" your citizenship? If a citizenship was an incentive or bonus, then people have to work hard to get one. Why not have hard working, talented, intelligent individuals be a part of this country?

            Also, a student of University of Victoria? Really? You checked yourself into the College of Dropouts the moment you criticized people for having terrible spelling and grammar when YOU have terrible spelling and grammar yourself.

          • Exactly my point: "part" of this country!? Do you mean pockets that they have inserted into this country that have absolutely nothing to do with Canadian culture? And I'm so terribly sorry for working hard to pay for a more than decent education at one of the top rated schools in Canada. You're so quick to defend poor, helpless Asians, meanwhile, you're trying to make me feel bad about not being one of these "white, drunken slackers…" and actually being productive. Get a life. Citizenships shouldn't be handed out; my Grandparents worked hard to get here, and built a life for our family when they did. I volunteer in my community, I work, I pay tax, I contribute to society, and I appreciate my country (minus people like you) every day – that is how I earn my citizenship.

          • You amuse me. Did I even remotely say citizenships are being handed out? Even individuals that have to get citizenship through an incentive have to work their way to get it. Who says Universities HAVE to accept applicants who are citizens? People are free to study at wherever they please. People enroll in universities for education, not for citizenship or to be a part of Canadian culture. Sure, you can rant about certain TA's or Professors that have poor English but then you have to realize they were hired for a reason. I can't believe you have the gall to complain about people who just so happened to study harder than you. I don't care how hard you work, because there will always be someone who is working harder than you or doing more than you.

            What do you believe is Canadian Culture? Last I checked, one of the best aspects of Canadian Culture is that we are a Cultural Mosaic.

            So you volunteer, pay taxes, and contribute in whatever you feel it is you are contributing to your society. Does this mean you've earned your citizenship? I don't think so. Honey, you can tell me to get a life, but you need to get over yourself. You aren't entitled to anything, and you mentioned your university as a point proves you believe you are. You're not the only one who has worked hard, and you overall, UVic can't even make the top 10 in overall rankings.

          • 1. I never complained about TAs or profs. I complained that ESL STUDENTS are marked easier BY profs.
            2. Why are ESL profs hired? Hmm… maybe because Canada favours "visible minorities"
            3. Canadian culture consists of many things…. not including ignoring the languages, traditions..etc. (How embarrassing for you that I need to explain that)
            4.There are so many people coming over here for school because they have overpopulated their own living space, and now need to use canada's resources
            4. Don't call me Honey. I'm not your Honey. I know you're probably a pathetic old lonely person who can't figure out where he went wrong in life, but sexually harassing young women on the internet is not a good choice for you.
            5. As a Canadian citizen, I am free to express my opinion, and I am free to take pride in my life and my education without being patronized by online sexual predators.
            So take my advice: turn off the TV, drain the rest of your beverage down the sink, and go cry away your life's worth of regret and sorrow. Tomorrow is a new day, Guest. I'm so sorry you feel so sad about your life. Good luck to you!

          • Why are ESL profs hired? So everyone gets a fair chance to understand and gain knowledge. And people come to Canada to study because they recognize the high education value that our schools hold, not because it is overpopulated which in fact, is a compliment for our nation. If we didn't have immigrants coming to Canada and wanting to live here then that would be a terrible sign that this country sucks.

          • #4 and 5, Claire, stick to the subject at hand, there's no need to be low balling any commenters and assuming they're a sexual predator. This to provide some food for thought for Canadians, regardless of skin colour.

          • Why are ESL TAs hired? I tell you why they are hired. They are hired not because they aren't proficient enough in English, but because they have extraordinary knowledge in their subject matter. Language is only a communication tool. They simply have better brain than you.

          • Dear Guest,

            They simply have better brain than you? I tell you why they are hired? Do you want to rephrase that after checking with your electronic translating device? and Language is only a communication tool? Are you joking? Communication is pretty effing important in a LEARNING environment. Go home.

          • Yes, you tell those ESL TAs go home, then you run into trouble. I tell you why, I attend U of T. TAs especially from Physics, Chemistry and Math departments are almost all VISA students. Do you seriously know why? Why these department can't find any "real Canadian" whom in your mind speak perfect English? Because they have hard time finding. That is the answer. These programs are simply way too tough for your "real Canadians" . Few people want to study those subjects and many of your t "real Canadians" can't even graduate.

            Also you mentioned communication. Seriously, if you are not in an liberal arts program you don't give a eff how good TAs can speak English. In fact, the only words TAs would say in a math tutorial are probably: since, this and that, therefore this and that. Majorities these communications take place in form of the universal NUMBERS and SYMBOLS.

            Last, I assure you that despite the fact that those TAs don't speak English as fluent as you, they write pretty damn good papers. I am sure they have published more papers on scientific journals than you have

          • Kyle.

            You tell those ESL TAs to go home? No they would go to United States instead. Good luck trying to keep some of the brightest minds on Earth to work for your country.

          • You are both retards. I was saying "go home" to guest,, meaning shut up. Don't reply to something unless you can read it properly.

          • I also attend UVic and I'm "white". I am ashamed of you and ashamed that you mentioned our school to prove your point.

          • Go Guest Go! Your points are valid. Sometimes it's not worthwhile trying to respond to aggressive commenters who monopolize the dialogue by being hostile and loud. Ignorance doesn't listen.

            Last time I checked Claire, you don't need to do anything to "earn" your Canadian citizenship if you're born here.

            If you believe that professors are markings papers unfairly, then go to your faculty administrators and file a complaint. If you haven't made that effort yet, then don't complain.

            There's no need to direct hostility at strangers on a comments forum just because they have a counter-view. Surely university has taught you to be civil and articulate with your argumentation.

            "poor, helpless Asian"

          • Guest, you are an idiot, if only for the reason that you criticize Claire for having poor grammar and spelling. I read her post – there isn't one mistake.

            PS – 'ad hominem', look it up. The cheapest and least intelligent form a debate can take…and my calling you an idiot doesn't apply as its a factual observation.

          • correction: "as IT'S a factual observation"…

          • In all fairness it is quite annoying to be in an English class at U of T with a handful of students who can barely read. I think the problem is with the way international students are hunted by universities in general. And in Asia in particular there has been a recent scandal of forging qualification by “educational coaches” that falsify language requirements and skew grades in order to get spots in prestigious Western Universities. So let’s not dismiss the issue out of hand as racist, there are legitimate concerns which come about due to deeply rooted institutional issues in the system. Yes there are many who work hard, but even back int eh 1970s my father in an MBA program at St George told me that he had to trasnfer to the MIssisauga campus because his whole class couldn’t speak English and he had noone to work with, so we really shouldn’t be flippant about the problems in higher educatione specially when it comes to the many scandals involving international students. Should we blame all foreign students int he same boat? Of course not, blame is shared in many different areas, the university itself, the ruthless educational coaches, and a cuthtroat educational culture, coupled with a recession.

          • oh boy . i knew UVIc was a hick university but that comment just proves it.

            claire, you might want to keep your mouth shut. you're an embarrassment to you're school.

          • And you are so much better for coming on here and posting useless comments like this. At least Claire was stating her opinions of the current issue at hand. She is entitled to her opinion, it is a free country. (Is it? I'm not so sure anymore.)

          • No it isn't a free country. Try saying something about Jews or blacks and see what happens. But of course if something bad is said about Asians then it is ok.

          • She’s entitled to her own opinion just as you are.

          • As a Chinese Canadian, I actually kind of agree with you. I don't think Asians need any special treatment – if you're aspiring to go to the top universities, you should be able to do so, in English or French, and compete at the same level as everyone else. When I applied for university I was asked to check a box indicating that I was a "visible minority". I'm not sure if they still do this. Sorry, but I don't need a hand up, from the government or from anyone else. If I can't get there on my own merit, I'd rather not get there at all.

            That said, your comments about citizenship being for people who earn it and appreciate it? Well, I have citizenship because I was born in Canada, just like you. I didn't earn it, and neither did you. But I pay my taxes, work hard to give back to my community, and appreciate it just as much as you do.

          • Clearly this issue is about ESL students – people who come from other countries to use up educational resources (with special treatment) and then return to China. I agree with your fist comment, but the second one… I think you're just looking for an argument. Stick with the issue at hand, "CBC Chica".

          • use up education resources? they are paying thrice the amount of fee to study as international students. Though I don't agree with getting handicaps, I think in subjects that do not require perfect English, the weightage of marks should represent that.

          • Technically they pay the same. The Canadian government pays a portion of the tuition of Canadian students. As international students they are not entitled to this.

          • Actually, international students are cash-cows to the universities for paying so much while the marginal cost is next to nothing.

            About Canadian government pays a portion of the tuition of Canadian students, what is the real cost of running a university cost?

            Most of the money goes to a bunch of lazy White professors with seniority who don't teach courses, who don't do research yet getting $200,000 to $300,000 for doing nothing.

          • What is the real cost of running a university course? All those sessional instructors, how much they make every year? Boo!

          • I am not talking about undergrad courses, even Masters level courses are taught by what?

          • What does it mean to "BE Canadian"? To be white, British, or French? Shouldn't we be challenging our outdated notions of what it means to be Canadian? Canada was founded by WASP men who created a notion of citizenship that was exclusionary of most visible minorities including Asians and Aboriginals. This does not represent the Canadian identity that has been formulating over the years. Identity is constantly evolving and changing, so we need to get it out of heads that there is only ONE way to be Canadian.

          • WASP men did not create a notion of citizenship that was exclusionary of most visible minorities. That is only a product of your fevered mind. Canada has always been a nation welcoming immigrants, and for you to indicate otherwise is highly insulting. You need to get yourself a history book. The cultures that first populated Canada are equally valuable as the ones that have arrived in the last 20 years.

          • Canada has always been a nation welcoming immigrants? Very white of you. Read your history! Ever hear about the Head Tax and the Exclusion Act: Chinese- and Indo-Canadians were denied the right to vote until 1947. Japanese-Canadians were finally allowed to vote a year later, in 1948.

          • Those are exceptional cases. Of course I'm aware of them. Canada was far more welcoming at the time than most other nations on earth. Canada also denied women the right to vote until the last 100 years or so. That doesn't mean that Canada didn't welcome women into the country.

            And even though there were some unfortunate negative policies, that didn't stop millions of Chinese, Japanese and Indians from coming here anyway, because it was plainly obvious they were better off in Canada than elsewhere.

            So what are you saying? Only Chinese/Japanese/Indians count as foreigners? That's exactly what I'm pointing out. At that time, Canada was accepting vast numbers or immigrants from Europe and all over the world. But to you, most of those people don't count, cuz they were white, and white people don't count. That's racism. Take your racism elsewhere.

          • Sounds like you didn't make the cut to get into university because your errors of logic and grasping are rather pathetic.

            As for the value of the cultures that first populated Canada, try asking an aboriginal who was sent to a residential school if they believe their culture has been valued. Why was it only in 1960 that aboriginal people could vote in federal elections?

          • Oh Romeo, don't you have a nerve? Shall I mail you copies of my graduate degree so that you may show a little respect? Or am I two stooopid 2 b abul to handul ur greatnes?

            "Why was it only in 1960 that aboriginal people could vote in federal elections? "

            Here's a thought – try moving to an aboriginal reserve and voting in an aboriginal election. Oh wait….

            Wow, they won't even let you move into their neighborhood. Not even if you marry one of the locals. They'll still kick you out. Gotta love our wonderful modern multiculturalism. You have such a knack for examples. Mohawks have had the abilty to vote in Canadian elections for 50 years, but if you're not Mohawk you can't even live in their neighborhoods, let alone vote in Mohawk elections. But it's the rest of us who are not the welcoming ones. Good job, Romeo! Great example!

            That article was written in 2010, by the way. That would be this year (just helping you out in case your understanding of dates is too primitive).

          • Ha, ha! National Post. That explains a lot, Herr grad degree.

          • I totally agree! We live in a society overtaken by globalization yet Canada seems to be the only racist issue here. Canada is such a cultural melting pot, taking in ALL races yet how many other countries do you see doing the same thing!? Yes, there was the exclusion act and the head tax in the past, and the Canadian government should be ashamed to have done so but that is the past and in today’s day and age that is no longer the case. But looking at China, how welcoming are they for “white canadians” to attend their schools and keep their own culture? People who work hard enough should be allowed in any university they choose, however universities also favour the highest dollar and immigrants tend to pay more to get a better education. It isn’t necessarily the “asian people’s” fault for the population majority in schools but instead the school favouritism of the highest bidder. The school’s are doing it to themselves, not that it should matter what race attends what school: as long as the students are working hard. However, I am seriously offended by the idea portrayed by Macleans and other posters that all the “non-asians” or “white canadian kids” are automatically included in the drunk and lazy category. There are MANY “white” kids working just as hard as anyone else to accomplish their high career goals. They should have the ample opportunity to do so just as any other student.

          • Irish were treated alot worse than chinese. You should learn YOUR history or ask my brother who is a prof he will tell u! Ever hear the term IRISH NEED NOT APPLY and my granddad was not allowed in canada with his brothers they had to move to new york!!!!!!!!!!Hows that for racism! And they did not get welfare cheques, free houses, free courses, free money every month and they did not have attitude!

          • Wow. You quite ignorant and uneducated, but that is typical.

          • When acting like a smarta**, you should at least learn a little grammar, twit.

          • And you are a racist bigot. What is it so hard to admit that? They were not exceptional cases. They were official government policy backed by public support. And yes it did stop people from immigrating because that was what the Exclusion Act and head taxes were designed to do. Canada welcomed white immigrants historically. Anybody with any education in sociology knows the meaning of the term vertical mosaic and the fact that Canada has been a white supremacist nation. This is plainly obvious from the comments on this thread where butt hurt little white boys and girls are trying their damn best to maintain and uphold their white privilege.

          • Like I said, when acting like a smarta**, you should at least learn a little grammar, twit.

          • Its not our fault we are the smartest race!

          • What have you done to earn your citizenship? Are you a true Canadian? As in First Nations? Most likely your ancestors immigrated to Canada and you were born in Canada and therefore making you a Canadian. Why didn't they just work hard in their own countries and instead came to Canada?

          • They think only they are Canadian because they have white skin. (English/French ancestry) That's why we call it racism and white supremacy.

          • Just jumping into the convo, this is kind of a ridiculous point. The entire modern national structure of canada is Anglo-French, and outside of Quebec Anglo predominantly. Our universities weren’t built by Aboriginals, nor were our roads or our major cities except for a few relics. The pioneers didn’t apply for visa they landed on the shore and found a continent they didn’t know was there before,a nd in 500 years built a nation state. None of our universities, at least any that are reputable have much relation to Aboriginal Culture outside a few obscure programs. Noone from China come to canada to get a piece of Aboriginal infrastructure. Your point is moot. the fact is that canada has an established national structure and it is legitimate to enforce its own borders. the extent of that enforcement and the concerns of preservation of culture are debateable but to claim that because Aboriginals once lived here, now canada should just let anyone in whenever is beyond illogical and also impractical.

          • Claire, I agree with your point that once we move to Canada or earn immigration, we should adopt Canadian culture as much as possible (I am from South Asia). But at the same time I also want to practice my own culture from my country of origin. The point is to take every good aspects from all neighboring communities to make this a better country.

          • lol UVIC. i didn’t even consider applying to that second rate school. 

        • @047c0f87cf269d77b3a228585b44e8c8:disqus. Bugger off and get a life! Canada, especially Vancouver, is NOT multicultural. Chinese and Caucasians does NOT mean multicultural. It is obvious you have no education whatsoever, so stop pretending you do. You’re embarrassing yourself.

      • its not for you. whats the issue? you simply just can't do as well as asians? sad.

        • I couldn't care less what race professionals come from. If they meet the qualifications of their profession, so what?

          No matter what faculty you go into, you are always competing to achieve an academic standing that will allow you to garner one of the available spots. How hard your peers are willing to study will set the bar. Many Asians take their education seriously, so they are willing to sacrifice a lot, like having a social life. For white people to call this a problem is hypocritical and racist. Merit is objective. If you're not willing to rise up to the challenge, it's your problem. Suck it up!

        • I bet your name isn't Betsy… I'm guessing Cho.

          • i bet your name isn't mark…i'm guessing it's douchebag.

          • Clever, "asdfkajh." It's really impressive that at least you are taking the initiative to learn words with more than one syllable in English.. and North American slang, too! Gold Star!

          • Oh my gosh, are you serious, douchebag? I can't believe you just wrote that. I can't believe there are people like you who call themselves Canadian.

          • Hey, CBC Chica. Try to focus. One guy was extremely insulting and the other reacted. Get a grip. It seems that in your world, using the word "douchebag" is perfectly acceptable, but pointing out an obvious fact in response to that insult, that is beyond the pale. Grow a brain.

      • The answer is as simple as you need to work harder and stop blaming other people for your own laziness.

        It's not "racist" if the majority of top careers are Asian if they got there by pure hard work, and not by race. It IS racist, however, if you decide that you need more white doctors and lawyers just because they're white, regardless of their capability.

        Personally, if my life is hanging on a thread on the operation table, I could care less if the surgeon is Asian of white. I'd just want the smarter one, who worked harder in school and is better at the job.

        • agree

        • Yes – It should not matter what race a person is, but what skill they have. If a person has worked harder to gain those skills, who are we to stop them?

        • So then I guess it would be racist to ask on applications for many jobs whether you are a "visible minority"? Oh wait…they already do that… But recently the visible minority is changing from Asian or other backgrounds to white. I think it is perfectly reasonable.

      • Hey Sheryl, multiculturalism is a failed and never proven to work ideology for useful idiots to tout. The game is domination and if you let someone take over they will period. All the Chinese have to do is wait 20-30 years and then bad times for all Occidental people.

        • Jack, your blatant xenophobia is a pox on what being a Canadian is. Why you should feel threatened by the Chinese says more about your own inadequacies than there being some conspiracy to take over the country.

          Multiculturalism is like a marriage, all parties need to work at it. It fails when people don't. It has worked in the places where people want it to succeed. Clearly, you aren't interested in it doing so.

          • Are they? They hang out in thier "bubbles" not bothering to pick up any of the two main languages and abusing the privileges Canadian have. How is this working at it?

          • Ever been an immigrant or lived in another country, Concerned? I doubt it because you would know that people of a particular social or cultural background associating together is a common thing. Ever heard of expat ghettos or Little Italy? White people do the same thing when they go overseas.

            I have a feeling you hang out in a bubble too, Concerned, called xenophobia or vaunted ignorance.

          • Aren't you an enlightened eltitist snobbish twit. We should all bow down before your omniscient judgement. Seems as though you know what I ate for breakfast yesterday. Aren't you a genius!

          • Can't come up with anything to refute what I said, huh s_c_f? That's a lot of words to use to say nothing except that you have no idea.

          • Um, refute what exactly? That common cultures associate together? And exactly what does that have to do with Concerned's statement that "They hang out in their bubbles not bothering to pick up any of the two main languages and abusing the privileges Canadian have".


            Congrats, you've been to Little Italy. Now exactly what does that have to do with anything? In case you haven't noticed, everybody in little Italy speaks English or French (with very few exceptions) and is well integrated into Canadian society. Just pointing out that different groups band together has nothing to do with the failings of multiculturalism.

            Yet despite having added nothing to the discussion, you maintain an elitist, snobbish tone. Say something intelligent and then act like a snob. Then work on humility and get rid of the holier-than-thou.

          • For someone with a grad degree, you seem to have an inordinate problem with reading comprehension, s_c_f. You must have been in Commerce, which is just a credential, not an actual education.

          • Little italy moved back to italy thanks to the racist somali and arab gangs in ottawa!

          • What Canadian privileges are they abusing?

          • Romeogolf is the smartest white guy here his comments prove that “he gets it”. Now why are white Canadians so scared silly of sino power? China is currently the dominant world force and will just move to consolidate that power more and more over the coming decades so get use to it. Greace had its time, Rome had its time, Britannia once ruled the waves and everywhere else, then came the great hungry beast called America…hmm all Caucasians (we are talking about total world influence so lets not talk really consider the Egyptians, the Mongols or even the Hannibal and his elephants). Well what have we come to after so much “white power”. Lets take stalk. Well we had 400 years of slavery and the extermination of between 60 to 100 million people of a certain non-white race in the process; the colonization and destruction of peoples and cultures  that happen to be “not white enough” all over the world (India, Far East, American natives, South American natives, Africa, the Caribbean, swabs of the middle east need I go on?); the  must inhuman and cruel extermination of 6 million of their own white people because they still were not white enough for them since they had origins in Israel which is in the middle east (forgetting that their precious Jesus is NOT white but a Middle Eastern/African man); the creation  and use of the single most destructive weapon in the history of mankind (nuclear bomb) something that could wipe out our entire human race; the ruination of our environment bringing us to the brink of disaster; and lately the destruction of the world’s financial system and the creation of an economic abyss that we will likely never fully climb out of! So why not let us chinese dominate for a while and see how we do? So I ask you white people, what are you so afraid of? You should be scared of your own people not us! Yellow power baby.

          • ha ha ha, why are you posting from your mom’s basement? Get a job, wanker.

        • I agree completely. All you have to do is set foot in downtown Richmond in Vancouver to see this. Cantonese immersion schools, not one sign in English. And not an ethnicity to be seen but Chinese. This does not seem like adapting to Canadian life, it is just setting up shop here.

          • The Canadian Way of Life is about accepting those cultures and living as a mosaic. We're not a melting pot. Your only valid point is the one about road signs. Who cares if Cantonese immersion schools exist? Ones for Spanish and other languages do too. You also forget that immersion schools focus on both English and whatever language they specialize in teaching–hence, the word "immersion".

          • Yes, and their taxes are paying for YOUR health care and education

          • Absolutely false. Many Chinese do live in Richmond, but there are plenty of non-Chinese who do as well. Lots of places with English signs. Sounds like you just took a spin down part of No. 3 Road or you're purposely exaggerating.

            P.S. Smart people know Richmond is where you go for the best Chinese food.

        • Wow… is it depressing going through life with that kind of attitude? I imagine it would be.

      • Your reaction is typical of the myopic racist. I suppose you thought it was sunshine and lollipops when not too long ago, Asians had to literally wait in ditches when their 'white overlords' passed them in the streets in their own countries. Suck it up Mr. Weiss, China and India are about to make you irrelevant.

        Besides, many of the immigrants to Canada are business professionals who are much richer, smarter and dare I say it, more adept at doing the jobs in the 21st Century that will give us an edge in the new economy. Besides, being anti-Asian in your immigration views doesn't make you just anti-diluvian, it makes you an American!

      • Stopping immigration? Who's going to support you paying for your pension and benefits when you grow old?!

        • Some people know how to save money. Some people actually have defined contribution pensions. Some people plan for the future.

      • Here is the problem, when people say "let's stop immigration" they do NOT have white immigrants in mind. Tell me, when you say this, do you mean we should stop an American? How about a British person? Do you find them just as threatening? After all, they would technically bw immigrants too. However, that is never what people mean. When they say "stop immigration" they are thinking of non-whites. On top of which, this statement is only ever triggered by the influx of non-Caucasians, it is never said when referring to white immigrant workers or students. And THAT is why those statements are more about racism than anything else. It implies an "us vs. them" attitude. People are not threatened by immigrants necessarily, they are threatened by minority immigrants? That is when the anger appears. And why? It's obviously rooted in an ego-centric attitude of white entitlement. If not, why does this anger only come out against minority immigrants? It's certainly not a coincidence.

        • Sorry to get nitpicky and I realize what you meant, but neither all Americans nor all Brits are white

          –a non-white, American immigrant to Canada.

      • So unless you're native, then you better get the f*ck out of this country.

    • Adopting our values and working hard? Assimilating quite well and outperforming white Canadian students?

      Seems to me you're implying that hard work and achieving in school is the domain of white people, and that Asians are crashing the party.

      The issue of racial groups not wanting to assimilate is a real one, and a problem that every multicultural country struggles with. We're lucky in Canada that the immigrant group in question (East Asians) simply wants to stick to themselves, study hard and get good jobs. Germany and France wish they had it so easy.

    • Agree with you

    • I agree with you, John.
      Good values are about to pass them on, not hold to ethnic groups or race groups.
      Culture is about to share and move on.
      This article is more like doing a statistic test, dumb and misleading. Too Shallow.

    • I am so glad there are intelligent people out there.

      Truly, this article could have represented both sides of the story well, if only it was better researched. I can see what the article is referring to in terms of some Chinese students segregating themselves. I go to University of Waterloo myself, and I've seen clusters of Chinese students who spend time exclusively with other Chinese students. Now, this could be from non-acceptance of students from other countries just because they're not Chinese, but it could also be because they don't know how to relate to students from other countries. Culture differences often make it difficult and borderline painful for two groups to mingle, unless there is someone who understands the awkwardness and makes an effort to better things. This effort should be coming from both groups. Unfortunately, a lot of the time, either side is mature or tactful enough to work the situation out. It's too easy to say, "I don't get this person at all, we have nothing in common, forget this."

      I moved here when I was young, and had the chance to learn the language and the culture in a virtually judgement-free environment due to the age of all the students around me. Not everyone has that luxury. Imagine being 17 or 18, and not being able to speak the language or understand the culture at all; how would it feel to try and approach someone who was born here and start a conversation? There must be fear of rejection, or even mockery. Of course, it also depends on your personality. Some people are quiet by nature, and it's hard for them to cross that bridge of communication, even harder when they can barely speak. Should we fault them for that?

      The last point I want to address is that the article boils down to, a) "There are students who want to go to university, but they don't want to compete or feel the pressure from other students who choose to work harder.", and b) "It is a problem there are more Asian students in university than white students and maybe we should do something about it.". Both are immensely stupid ideas, since you work for what you get, and that's the way it should be.

      The article also missed out on the many Asian-Canadian students (myself included) that have a social life, and decent grades.

    • As an asian parent (mainland Chinese yet!), I did read the main article and I do agree with a lot of what it says, and I did not feel discriminated. All is fine. Many of my friends discuss such issues all the time. I myself think one main reason for us being so 'academic' is that we think that's probably the only safe route for our kids not to fail in this country or any other place for that matter. We know famous rockers and hocky players can make quick money huge money, but we would not put our kids' future in that since we also believe most of the not-so-good hocky players are not rich and may not have a steady career. Tell me wrong if you know I am, but that's what I believe now. By the way I do remind my 14-year old son not to be too nerdy but he has to keep his grades good. By the way I have worked in this very good country for many years and I know 'white guys' are very smart, I don't think you guys have to be scared.

    • They don't adopt our values which is exactly the problem. Also very few pay any income tax. The vast majority of Asian students have one or both of their parents continuing to work back at home while their children take advantage of the cheap schooling.

      • It's not that the vast majority of Asian students have their parents working back at home for them so that they can have cheap schooling. It's because most Asian parents offer to and want to help pay for their children's education so that their children's lives will have a higher chance at being better than theirs (This is even stated in the article). Also, you'd better damn well prove they don't pay any income tax, otherwise you're making false accusations.

      • stop this! If both parents are back home and not Canadian taxpayers, their kid is not eligible for cheap schooling. Talk to CRA about it. You are not concerned, just stupid and paranoid.

        • As a matter of fact I work closely with the CRA. If you got a little educated you could see how easy it is for people to subvert our system, which they do regularly. Only one parent has to have citizenship or Perminant Resident Status in Canada to have their dependants qualify for the same benifits afforded to any Canadian Citizen. The difference is that doing their work outside of Canada, and claiming little to no income inside Canada exempts them from having to pay federal income tax. Therefore getting cheap schooling, access to free Healthcare and a host of other things. Before you slander someone as stupid and paranoid you should take a step back and think before speaking.

          • Canada doesn't have cheap schooling. I'm a Canadian going to uni in Europe right now, paying 400 Euros a term – THAT is cheap schooling! Foreigners don't come to Canada because it's cheap, they come because it has a reputation for multiculturalism and acceptance. Unfortunately all I'm reading on this forum is US and THEM – I thought Canada was past the sense of "the other." Most people here in Europe know Canada as a cultural mosaic – I am embarassed to read these posts speaking of the contrary and acting as if an Asian Invasion is coming! Get real, people.

          • People come to Canada because there is so much SPACE… China has obviously become overpopulated and need more space.

          • I wonder if we have a history of brainleak to the south, balancing the immigration rate

          • Rubbish. You have obviously not been to China, John. Chinese are also going to Europe and the US to study. It has nothing to do with space.

          • Why would he need to go to china he practically lives there.

          • Asian invasion is coming? They're already here, and have taken over!

          • Yeah and I go to McGill and know people from all over the world that do this, Americans with one Canadian parent or people all over the world with French citizenship paying the in-province fees and no taxes. Not sure how it’s in any way specific to Asians. If you don’t like it, chance the rules.

          • *change

      • "Cheap Schooling"
        Have you looked at the price some international students need to pay?
        Do you even know the conversion rate of some of the currencies?
        Asian parents work their asses off to make money for their kids to grow up outside their own countries because they still have the idea that Canada and America are lands of dreams. If the typical "local" student pays 10k-16k for tuition, multiply that by 6 for average Chinese yuan then they pay about 60k +. In China, there is no "minimum wage" that small companies can pay, they pay what they can or want. Many Asian parents use their life savings and send all their earnings to their children studying abroad while they live off pennies and scraps at home.

        • Where do you get your biased, bullcrap info from, sir?

        • Foreigners don't get into our schools because they pay more. They have to make the grade!

      • @Concerned: FYI, international/foreign students pay nearly double the domestic rate… to say that they're taking advantage of cheap schooling, priced at $10000/semester in some programs e.g. MBA is a bit rich for me. Would you have the cash to pay $10000/semester for so-called "cheap schooling" buddy?

      • And YOU'RE not taking advantage of the cheap schooling?

        • wasting it, apparently

      • Concerned,

        you are an effing idiot. Cheap schooling for kids? you effing kidding me? Living expenses are much higher for a kid with both parents working abroad due to exchange rate. Get your facts straight before spewing your verbal diarrhea.

    • About taking over, Statistics Canada shows that Chinese here have one of the lowest birth rates. South Asians and people from middle East have much higher birth rates. Canadian Immigration is admitting more Philippinos (culturally compatible Christians) than both Chinese and sub-continent Indians. Consider that both India and China is more than 10 times the size of the Philippines in terms of population. So, rest assured. just stop this fearmongering!

    • There is something to be said about generations of canadians paying taxes to keep our universities "afforadable" or "sustainable" or "exisitant" so that our canadians and our children are able to attend. Is if fair that we pay and pay and work very hard to be able to attend these schools and can't because an immigrant with high grades takes our spots becuase they are having to pay international fee's. I should think if it were the opposite, Canadians immigrating to Asia, for education etc they would be unhappy if we were taking their childs spot when they had been paying to sustains these universites for generations.

      Just a thought..

      • Exactly! People are so quick to turn this into a race issue, when that is not what it's about at all. Nice comment! Finally, someone with some brains on this panel of morons!

        • It is about race. Israelis and Russians and other white people do the same thing, hang out in their particular ethnic groups and speak in their own non-English and non-French languages and you don't see any uproar or magazine articles about that.

          • Not all Israelis are white… smh.

      • As you said, International students pay International tuition fees, which are much higher than what a Canadian student would pay. So yes, it is fair.

        • student teacher 101 is also forgetting universities get a huge chunk of money off of accepting international students, which keeps universities 'affordable' and 'sustainable' or 'existent' so that canadians are able to attend.. how's that?

        • I can't get into a university in my home city, because someone from the other side of the world has more money than me? Plus the fact that there are so many willing to pay it that tuition here skyrockets…Yep… that sounds really fair.

          • @ Rick: /pat sorry to hear that.

            If some students are not able to attend the institution of their choice due to capacity problems, I really think our universities should reconsider those international satellite campuses…

          • you can't get into university because you're dumb and lazy. seriously. it's not that hard to get into a well-respected. university.

            the problem is how well you do in it.

            stop blaming other groups if you didn't get in.

            you would never have made it out even if u made it in

      • Generations of Canadian paying taxes to keep your universities "affordable" or "sustainable" or "exisitant" so that our canadians and our children are able to attend? What the heck are you talking about?

        You mean the generations of white people who steal the land, plunder natural resources and pay "some of that loot" to your government so the universities can stay afloat and have senior White professors with tenure getting paid $300,000 a year for doing no research and no teaching?

    • You misunderstand, Macleans is pointing out the self-segregation of Canadian groups. Nobody is criticizing Asian kids for working harder, good for them. But allowing universities to become either an Asian university or a White university is socially destructive. Pointing out the issue is the first step towards challenging the idea that "I don't want to go to UoT, its too Asian" is a legitimate thing to say.

      • We've had self-segregation since before Canada became a country. Did the Europeans integrate with the aboriginal groups? Nope. What about the French and the English? Lots of self-segregation still going on today? What happened when the Italians, the Irish, and the Greeks came here? Same thing. What happens when white people go abroad to work? Ever heard of expat ghettos?

        This is not something peculiar to any one ethnic group. It is common to all who go to a new country. In that respect, I find this article is not being particularly helpful in singling Asians out. What has been helpful, though, is that the article has drawn out the racists and the ignorant. It shows us that as a multicultural society, we still have a long way to go.

    • Well said…I totally agree with Mr. Brown's comments.

      If the Asian kids make sacraficies early on and study hard to get into a good school, they deserve to go to that school. If a black guy has a special talent and tries hard in a professional sport, well then who are we to say that he can not play in the major league and gets paid the big bucks?

      Why would it be fare to expect others to stop progress just because I don't want to move?

      The authors of this article should wake up and get moving becasue the world is turning.

    • The big picture is about preservation of culture. Asians are not mixing well because of the culture clash. North Americans want to have fun and grow as people, while Asians fear for their socioeconomic security by demanding merit in their escape into academics. When they outperform North Americans, they become jealous and even outnumbered in some cases which corners and jeopordizes the preservation of the culture here. Because Asians are so concentrated on one thing and one thing only: studying, they have a difficult time to relating to "whites" and tend to stick to other Asians for social security and support. This tends to really annoy the whites because Asians are growing in large numbers which is causing and expanding bubble of tension. It's sad that Asians feel the need to seclude themselves because of the way they had been taught to go through school was by getting high grades but not growing as individuals in order to achieve a social life that can be integrated positively into North American society.

      • Put a sign at your national borders that says "White Canada Forever!"

        We don't have to come, but your universities want our money.

    • ur trying to say that all asians are immigrants and all don’t pay taxes. “This is ridiculous, if they want to work hard, make money, pay their taxes, let them! ” just a FYI i’m an asian and i’m an american citizen and my parents pay all their taxes. and “Who are we to stop them for doing so? “and “Are we afraid of immigrants adopting our values and working hard.” ..hmmmm.. i wonder whats with the affirmative action…if that doesn’t mean chicken idk what

  3. So what, this is nothing new! I graduated from Waterloo 18 years ago with a B.Math Honours, Computer Science (Co-op). I'm not Chinese, but most of my friends were, in fact a friend who wasn't, remarked after a couple of weeks when I introduced her to someone, that she was the first of my friends she met who wasn't Chinese – it was not said as a bad thing, just an observation lol. My aunt also remarked that the picture of my CS graduating class was 3/4 Chinese. Who cares.

    What I did care about though, was that we had a lot of TAs who spoke little to no English and were useless for help, yet us as undergrads and having English as a first language, had to get 60% on the English Language Proficiency Exam (ELPE). If you're going to TA a class, you should be able to understood and answer questions in English and not just written English as some TAs, but in person. I can count on ONE hand the number of times a TA actually helped me or my friends.

    • well said

    • Well said, I am an engineering student who goes to Queen's university and I am experiencing the same problem as well. The majority of my TA's know the technical aspects of the courses very well but are unable to explain them to undergrad students.

      • mind, many of the TAs are graduate students who are internationals, no?

        • it's interesting how they got into grad school with such an incomprehensible communication skill
          ( a real flaw in the TOEFL exam?)

          • I guess its because TOEFL exam focuses heavily on the WRITING aspects. So one can be good on writing papers in English without being good on verbal communications in Englsih with others.

    • well said… except for your English in the last paragraph :)

    • Nothing new is right. The same issue was raised in 1980 by the CTV show W5 and created a fiasco. It became known as "the W5 incident". Google it or go to
      Same old fears 30 years later. Relax people. International students do not take spaces away from domestic students. Many of them stay and contribute to our communities or go home with an understanding of Canada that helps build future international relationships.

    • I went to UW for EE 8 years ago….I don't think it was a language thing, they were just jerks! (but that's another issue).

    • Notice none of the article ever refers to Asians as being yellow. Just Asian. This article more or less tries to reinforce the Asian or "yellow" stereotypes of hardworking, smart, get high marks kind of a Asian or "yellow" student. I only believe about 25% of what is written in the article and the other 75% is pure commercial, a soap opera like novel to reinforce prejudice and stereotypes which is definintely not scholarly at all.

      • This article sounds more resentful of "yellow" Asian students and reinforces the stereotype of "yellow" Asian students who get high marks, are math and science majors and graduate at Canada's Elite Universities. Asian students do go to social clubs and social events on weekends just everybody else. Asian students are not just only science, math and engineering majors, "yellow" students just like the "white" students major in arts, business, education, etc…etc. I don't think the McCleans article truly reflects what goes on in Canadian University.

        • I think this article is more resentful and reinforces negative stereotypes of Asians in university. As well, the article is a way of further venting out frustrations about educated "yellow" Asians that occupy "too many seats in the lecutre hall" by inventing a non-scholarly term – "Asian ceiling". This type of "Asian bashing" proves to me how mainstream Canadians think and feel about Asians, not as their counterpart, but because they feel threatened for the future employment of their children and their grandchildren. Employers don't want a potential drunk and alcoholic to skip work just to party. Clients and patients don't want a lawyer or doctor who partied their way through university and achieved low marks on finals. I know I don't.

    • you should care. Canadian taxpayers paid for those degrees.

  4. As a Caucasian grad student in engineering at U of T I say Big F@#king deal. Every one of those students worked extremely hard to get where they are, largely because their parents valued the OPPORTUNITY Canada gave them. University is not a right, you have to work for it. "White" people usually come from families who have lived in Canada for generations and maybe don't realize how lucky we are compared to the rest of the world. The "they took my job" complaint essentially means "I was lazy and decided to play video games and party, but I REALLY wanna go". Don't we all remember something about ants and grasshoppers…..

    • Well said AER. All the native white canadians after high school( many drop outs) like to have a girl friend, work in a restaurent or somewhere earn some money, have sex, drink all the while hangaround with friends. They dont value the education and job because since beginning they dont get any motivation from parents. At age 16 or 18 parents kick them out . So they look ariound go to some school and become carpenter or welder like that. This is why they dont move forward in thir life and jealouse of others crying always 'they took my sopt and job like that. Poor petty craps.

      • See, when you use the word "all" like that, it's extremely offensive. It really shows your true feelings and attitudes towards "white" Canadians.

        • That was directed at Goog by the way.

          AER, in terms of your post, I do agree with you.

      • Thanks, you're spot on. I knew a girl who started living with a boyfriend since age 14! If this girl manages to complete high school, how in the world do you expect her to compete against another girl (of whatever ethnic background) who put in over 6hours of after-school study time a day? This is no rocket science.

      • Your comment is racist. Also, not everyone's parents support them totally financially. I worked in a restaurant during undergrad because my parents would pay my tuition only, not my rent, food, bills, not because I was too lazy to study.

      • if you are chinese, I want to tell you that I often tell my white friends that it is very hard to be proud of being Chinese and you are the reason why. And the funny part is I am still so damn proud of being Chinese because lots of them are not like you.

    • My grandparents did move here. They also started speaking English the very same day, and became CANADIANS, not people with canadian passports.

      • And Jack, what exactly is "Canadian"?

        • Well Vicky, Canada is a sovereign nation, and has been since 1867. Tens of thousands of our forefathers died to create and protect this country overseas in wars, and here at home. Our freedoms, including free healthcare, freedom of speech and high standard of living all stem from the hard work and sacrifice of the people who came before us. No, this doesn't just mean white people, it means people from all races including Japanese, Chinese, Native Americans and African Americans (to name a few) working together to create this land that we are so lucky to call Canada today. People moving here now are taking these things for granted and abusing our system and rights (often entering illegally), but not bothering to adopt any Canadian values or culture. Canada's two official languages are French and English. To be Canadian means to learn to speak one of those two languages, to learn about, respect, and even add to Canadian culture and history, and to be able to sing the national anthem with pride. The argument that we are all immigrants can be argued anywhere – Everyone came from Africa originally if you believe in evolution. The point is to move to Canada, you should make an effort to be CANADIAN, not just create a bubble of your own culture and traditions, without even attempting to appreciate the beauty and history of what is already here – and only using Canada as a means to an end. That, Vicky, is what Canadian is; although it appears to me that these days being Canadian means being too afraid to appear "racist" to stand up for our Country.

          • Well said… I too am proud to call myself CANADIAN… and agree with every single thing you said… Amen

          • What you are trying to say is short sighted, and you contradict yourself.

            You build a case about a free nation, then go on with how people should act (i.e., "being Canadian") in this nation.

            You are trying to set standards for what it is to be a Canadian by listing; language skills, respect to culture, and being patriotic.

            Most Canadians are monolingual i.e., they speak either English or French. That is a major divide right there! Don't believe me? Try to speak French to someone at random in English Canada, or English in Quebec somewhere outside Montreal or Quebec City. You will experience a huge divide right there! Yet, you are focused about the fact that there are groups being formed in universities and that they don't blend in to the Canadian culture. Seriously? That's your discomfort?

            Canada has a very short history relatively to many other nations. Its culture is predominantly composed of many subcultures (originating from outside Canada). And, frankly, this may be a surprise to you but, Canadians are not very patriotic. Shall we even get into discussion about the Aboriginal history and identity?

            The true Canadian identity has more to government policies and deep cultural values, than slapping some obscure label as "being Canadian".

            Read up!

          • Sarven, you call Jack short sighted but you are not so "farsighted" yourself.____A nation, regardless of how "free" you are, needs law in place to conduct order in society. Jack never said anything about a "free nation", so first of all I would encourge YOU to read up and really try to understand what others are saying before criticising them. There HAS to be boundaries on actions to discourage crime, that is not the issue of freedom, but the issue of safety and security and rights to life. ____About being patriotic, this might be a surprise to you but, Aboriginals do not have any influence in this country. Even though there are laws to protect them, let's be blunt and I'll say Aborginal influence is as good as a rat's pellet to the cow's dung. Being Aboriginal has NOTHING to do with being patriotic, because Canada is operated by "white-coloured-men". If anything, patriotic means just get the f out of U.S.'s way and provide military support like a dog. There is no cultural value in Canada. IF anything, Canadian culture is the exact opposite of deep culture. Canada represents MULTIculture.____Read down Sarven, read down.

          • You're joking right? Even by making an effort to be"CANADIAN" and by not creating a bubble of one's own culture and traditions, there will always be people who judge you because of how you appear. For example, say an asian person has two close friends who are also asian and they're seen walking around. There will be people who think, "Oh, they want to form their own asian group, they aren't interested in other races. They aren't CANADIAN." In reality that might not even be the case, they could be friends because they take similar classes in school, because they've just known each other for a long time, or because they have similar interests. They could also have close non-asian friends, but they happen to not be out with them that day. They could be speaking English all the time, and maybe they don't even know how to speak an asian language. However, people will walk by and just ASSUME, that because they're three asians walking together, that they're smart, completely focussed on school work, refuse to accept other races, and the list goes on. Unfortunately, you can't get rid of those people, and they'll always be trapped in their ignorance. Although I will add that whether you admit it or not, this article is racist. Just because an asian person will work hard to achieve good grades, does not in any way mean that they are not Canadian. They should not be discriminated against just for doing well in school.

          • Why don't you move back to England, Europe, if you so want to speak English? Why are you in Canada if you want to live an European life?

    • AER, your comment is very logical. it's not about being white or brown or black, no matter what color or race you're from, it's all about being determined and having perseverance whether academically or anything that has something to do with life and future. dreaming of something big is not enough, you have to work hard for it and when you work hard there's always a fruit of your labour in the end.

    • haha i'm the lazy one and play video games and party and i'm asian, woot woot!! Like Steve Aoki says WOOT WOOT, Hell yeah!!! SchoolS over rated!!

    • Hi AER_Eng………..Can you please tell me about the 'ants and grasshoppers' you mentioned. I am a 61 year old Asian lady who have lived in Toronto for 37 years and who might not have caught this thing when I was growing up. Thank you……..Tina

      • R,
        It is a tale about an grasshopper and an ant. The grasshopper was lazy, and just lived life one day at a time. The ant worked and stored up food. When winter came, the ant had food and lived. The grasshopper died. This is a consolidated version, but it gets the idea across.

    • I totally agree with you. Couldn't have said it any better.

    • Yeah, I totally agree with you AER_Eng. This article complains and bitches about too many Asians "yellow" in Canadian Univerities. In Hong Kong and China nobody complains or bitches about too many Asians in university in Hong Kong or China. Nobody complains or bitches about how "whites" or Caucasians are under represented there. In fact, Hong Kong and China should complain that there shoud be more "white" and Caucasians in Hong Kong and Chinese universities.

  5. So what, this is nothing new! I graduated from Waterloo 18 years ago with a B.Math Honours, Computer Science (Co-op). I'm not Chinese, but most of my friends were, in fact a friend who wasn't, remarked after a couple of weeks when I introduced her to someone, that she was the first of my friends she met who wasn't Chinese – it was not said as a bad thing, just an observation lol. My aunt also remarked that the picture of my CS graduating class was 3/4 Chinese. Who cares.

    • You will care when they decide they don't have the resources left to sustain their ridiculous population and plant a Chinese flag in Canada. Have fun being put into forced labour. Think it's a joke, remember Tibet?

      • remeber it's you who made the rule to let us into this country. If you did not need us why the fuss? I thought I was coming here to help becasue you did not want to go to university to learn some new things to keep up the pace. Don't worry If I needed labour, I would not hire in case its too hard for you.

        • To "Chinese in Calgary" : Learn English.

        • No actually I never got a say in the decision to "let you in". If i did there would be far more stringent guidlines. The people that did decide that however are only thinking with their pocket books and seeing dollar signs and not having the best interests of Canadians in mind at all.

          • Maybe you should go to University, acquire an education, and get out of whatever white-dominated cluster f**k of a small-town you're from. If you can't realize the white-western hegemony that perpetuates the dichotomies of global power and hence wealth, around the world?

      • ur real ignorant. u must be one of those red necks out in the country who has a gr 6 education

    • I totally agree with you. Everybody work hard to what you want in life. I was not born in china or HK. I live in several countries before coming to Canada. Maybe wome white elites worry that their country will be swamped by outsiders. you know why?? the only reason I get, they never treat you guys, other skin color as Canadians or even brothers. i urge Asian and other countrymen, finish your education(you are just their clients). Go back to your own country and contribute to it. there is no real multi-culturism. these leaders want to play politics and stir anti-immigrations sentiments. They dont'even appreciate what we contribute to this country, what they want is drinking, enjoying life, indulge in thei sex and die tomorrow.

  6. Isn't this just racism? I'm Asian, and I was born in Canada. Hence, I am Canadian. White people are only Canadian because they were born here too. Do these white people have some sort of special right because they came here a couple generations before me? Or how do we compare to Europeans who came more recently? Does our hard work mean less or is insignificant because of our skin? Ridiculous. If your son can't compete against me, then so be it. This is a meritocracy, the reason why Canada is such a great nation is because the talented and hardworking move up the ladder, and the untalented don't get to make decisions they are not ready for. If you can't compete, move out of the way, if you want to get something I want, work fair and square for it. Stop complaining, let the better man be the victor.

    • US universities require more pints in SAP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. My god. it is ridiculous and I know why now US is in trouble.It ia an american dream…

    • @ Wen Jiabao: Where are the cold hard data that shows that asian students do not interact and do not develop socially? In the end, how can conclusions be made when it's solely base on 'he said she said' scenarios. To say that asians are socially underdeveloped is also a stereotype and generalization. How is this not racist?

      This article is just a thinly veiled commentary on how our universities have too many asians and need to maintain a level of caucasian students. It is also pointing out U.S. university as examples on how they practice racial discrimination on asian candidates and we should do the same.

      Being a proud Chinese Canadian, this article truly breaks my heart. This article coming from a well established Canadian magazine makes it hurt even more.

      • I agree.

        As an addition, many people do see many asians forming an intracultural background in campuses because it is difficult for most Asians who are not Canadians (but visa students) to interact with Canadians who are fluent in English.
        It maybe the language barrier or it could just be the cultural barrier. Although if you're put in the position to do so (for instance in a rural university, such as University of Athabasca where there aren't many Asians), they should not hesitate from interacting with the white Canadian population. But if you're attending a university in the cities (i.e. UBC or UofT), they are likely to form a community within themselves (because they just can with the sheer number of them). It is just easier and more comfortable for those students to form a community within themselves because they share the same cultural and language backgrounds.

        The conclusions made in this article seem to be from mainly anecdotes. Now, how many of you readers who took a course in introductory psychology learned about the dangers of drawing a conclusion from anecdotes?

        Also, the sheer number of Asian population (Canadians and non-Canadians) makes it easier for Asians to form a community in university campuses. What can we say about individuals being attracted to those who look, think, and speak like them? University students are a bunch of individuals who want to experience extensive interactions with the opposite sex, this is so obvious.
        Because much of the community formed in a campus runs around parties, clubs and school organization where these sorts of interactions are possible, it is not surprising to see like-cultural individuals gathering together.

        I do not understand the reason why this is a problem at all.

        @Dee I agree with you in that the article is a thinly veiled commentary on this issue (which is still sort of sad, universities shouldn't need to TRY to maintain a level of caucasian students. Rather it should be the applicant population that should be coping to it, if they wish so)

    • Remember, it's never racism if it's white people on the losing end. Right?

      • Jews are white.

        • @ Guest234: Get your facts straight- some of the Jews are white; an example would be Jewish people of African descent- Blacks and simultaneously Jewish!

          • Non white Jews are not considered Jews. Colored Jews in Israel are treated much the same as colored people in North America, as subhuman.

          • I agree – my cousins are part Jewish and part Asian…in fact many people in Canada are of mixed descent, especially in Toronto. Insulting one race, insults a whole lotta people of all kinds.

      • no thats exactly it ive never heard of someoen being racist towards white ppl theres no such thing

      • Awww… poor oppressed white people suffering so much discrimination when they hold all the power in government, industry, academia, media, and entertainment. Somehow they are the losers?

    • Well said!!

    • Stop disguising under another race..
      You are basically stereotyping , I`ve met many Asians who are very sociable and many from other races who are not..
      I once met a white guy at a formal networking function who could not stop downing booze and talking about his partying in his uni days. All of us (whites, asians, blacks) were basically finding excuses to get out of that conversation and join another group instead. Was that a professional social behavior at a formal networking event ( which you`ll likely attend in your professional career)?? The point is that there are people from all races who are weak socially ..So, stop generalizing and stereotyping, get it??

    • Jope the racism is being exhibited by Chinese Canadians with their arrogance and aires of superiority. The article works insultingly both ways, but not too far from the truth and a wakeup call for European Canadians allot of us are second generation. Intercultural conflict is the map of history.

      • Oh yes, lets stoke up a good old fashioned race war. Its not about culture, its about race. Do you see white Canadians complaining about Polish, Greek, Italian, or Russian culture? At universities, Hebrew, Russian, and other languages are spoken as much as "Chinese", and yet do not generate a fraction of the vitriol that this article is exposing.

    • Thank you, finally someone has said what needs to be said, and what is the response? 23 thumbs down… and you call white people racist… everyone is the same, people are idiots and racist no matter what race or culture they come from.

      • No everybody is not the same. The mindset of colonial European whites carries forth to this day and manifests itself in the current power structures and white dominated hierarchy. This is why white people are struggling so hard to maintain their privilege and dominance and hence this article.

    • I am an asian I am not agreeing with you on the 'up the ladder' or 'better man be the victor' thing. I just do not want to believe there is a 'up' and a 'down', there is a 'victor' and a 'loser'. We do not have to live in a war we have enough food for every one.

      • Unfortunately, I'd have to disagree with you. There is a war happening. It is a war of racial and cultural domination, and is being fought with the weapons of public opinion and in some cases, official policies such as university admissions and affirmative action. We can't the luxury of being blind to this since this is of paramount importance in shaping the future.

        • I totally agree, and this kind of conflict will just get more intense as the West is declining and Asia is in ascendency.

    • If you travel to other parts of the world where there's a population of white people (expats) you will see they stick together and hardly go out of their way to try and integrate into mainstream society.

    • The I guess the best way you suggest in getting a job is out drink the boss or make him laugh until he dies..

    • Yes it is racism by the US university administrations. The article itself is not racist at all towards asians. In fact it shows numerous examples of racism towards asians by the administrations and that weirdo mom.

      I may be wrong but i don't know why asians were singled out. I think the article was perhaps trying to point out the perceived lack of socialization between cultures in Canada. Ironically I am at U of T and my social life is way way better than at back in the day at York

      • Asians are singled out partially because both Canada and the US have been historically racist towards Asians. Also the current political climate is antagonistic towards China's emerging dominance as the US is losing power and wealth. To whites, all Asians are synonymous with China, much like how in the 80s all Asians were synonymous with Japan. It is about racism and power and privilege hence the resurgence in mainstream media of Yellow Peril.

        • Again, right on!

    • Sounds like you didn't go to university, Ante. Your rant is so terribly full of ignorance and paranoia that one could not call you educated. You seem to be in a ghetto of your own self-pity. Time to get out in the world a bit to see what it is really like.

    • Canadian universities are allowing all Canadians – no matter what their race or ethnic group or anything else – a fair and democratic chance. Everyone had the fair chance to work hard and get good marks and activities. If you don't like it then it means you're admitting you're inferior to those who did work to get a space.

      Finally, I think a lot of Mohawk, Iroquois, Cree, Salish, and Inuit take exception with your statement.

      • What happened to the native populations was very unfortunate, really. What's done is done, and we can only love Canada for what it is now. So let's start with that.

        Although universities are offering everyone a fair chance right now, the article mentions what American schools are doing – the Asian quota. This is definitely something that should be put in place for schools here. Not only Asian quotas, but quotas for ALL backgrounds. That would ensure a constant diversity of peoples from all walks of life! And would ensure that hopefully BOTH my children and yours would be able to attend university.

        • Then why not just universities? Why not have black quotas in the NBA? Why not have Jewish quotas on Bay Street banks? Really British-descended people make only a fraction of Canada's population, yet make up a huge percentage of the government. Why not have quotas on them too?

          The system is completely fair and democratic, and it's up to the individual whether to study hard or get trashed. The universities want to ensure the best possible academic environment, and if that means letting in more people who happen to have ancestry in East Asia, so be it. If that means keeping out flunkies whose ancestry happens to be in Europe (or Africa, or the Americas, for that matter), then so be it. All our children have the equal chance to attend university. It's up to parents and the kids whether they want to work for it.

          • Actually, all of our children do not have an equal chance to attend university. Have you considered tuition fees lately? How many talented kids are not able to because they or their families can't afford it?

          • Everyone has an equal chance to attend university. That's why there are scholarships and provincial loans. There are also bursaries, if you haven't heard of them – they're just needs-based and not talents-based.
            If children work hard for their studies, then they will get farther than those who do not study hard enough. Whether or not they have the resources or not. Because if they really are good in what they do, there will always be ways for them to acquire sponsorsip of some kind to be able to pay for tuition. It may be difficult, but it's not impossible.

          • You have just contradicted yourself, anon. Those with the financial means have more opportunities than those without, which you admitted above. If you think that is equal opportunity, you must be looking at the world from the perspective of privilege.

          • Good point, romeogolf.

            And Ethan, let's not make this about something it's not. So let's leave the NBA and Bank out of this and stick to the topic at hand. Haha nice try though.

            I want you also to remember that this is Canada. MY ancestors built this country for a better life for ME. If they knew that some Asians (or any other race) would come and steal the university started for us Canadians, they wouldn't be too happy. Just how Asians' ancestors built their countries for a better life for THEM.

            I want my kids to be able to study where I did, where my father did, and where his father did. Because god knows I don't have Asian schools as a fallback…like Asians do.

          • Are you saying that YOUR ancestors built this country for YOU? As in, the entire country is yours and no one else's? If you are, I'm sorry because you're wrong. (:

          • Don't dumb yourself down, Guest, and pretend you actually believe that is what anon44 meant. Canadians throughout history established Universities for Canadian Citizens, not so foreigners could come in and pay extra for them. All CANADIANS (of any race) should have a chance at Uni before ANY non canadians (of any race). This whole article isn't about "too many asians" , it's about the university culture becoming to much like asian culture, which is bound to happen when there are so many people DIRECTLY FROM asian countries. It's not about race, it's about the universities. All these readers just like to pretend it's about race so they can have a good cry. I agree completely with anon44! Canada might as well be a doormat.

          • Asians built the railroads for Canada, and guess what they got for it? Your ancestors stole land and murdered and plundered and pillaged. Turnabout is fair play isn't it? Except that today's minorities are actually playing by the rules and winning. That's where it hurts the most, knowing that white privilege will only get you so far and not all the way.

        • There should be no race-based quotas. We should look at people as individuals, not as members of a race. To have diversity, select INDIVIDUALS from different walks of life, not just this many Chinese and this many White.

    • So what you are saying is that Canada is fundamentally based on white supremacy?

      • Oh yes, of course.

        Just as there are racial identities of colour in Canada, there is also a white racial identity. To Canadians of European descent whiteness is akin to normalness; yet, as Frankenberg (1996) points out, it is unacknowledged and unknown to most white people. Euro-Canadians do not define themselves as white – they merely construct themselves as NOT being people of colour. This invisibility of whitenes is “historically, socially, politically and culturally produced and … linked to … relations of domination” (Weis et al., 1997, p.22). This domination manifests itself in the form of white privilege (examples to follow). These privileges are invisible to most Euro-Canadians; yet, they exist. They are built into Canadian society. It is a “protective pillow of resources and/or benefits of the doubt … (that) repels gossip and voyeurism and instead demands dignity” (Fine, 1997, p 57).

    • "Your" homeland is Great Britain or France, that being British or French.

      And everyone does have an opportunity to go to an Asian university too. You just have to learn their language just as they have to learn English.

      • ummm…. they don't learn english, that's what the problem is.

        • If they don't learn English, how are those Canadians able to score so well in high school and take the best seats in the universities?

    • Actually, the Canadian homelands by your logic are Britain and France. Canada is the homeland only to First Nations peoples. They were the first who settled this country, not white Europeans. Real Canadians are anybody with Canadian citizenship which is not determined by skin color anymore.

    • Wow…

      Ok first off French, English and Spanish aren't countries. They're languages. White people were not in North and South America first. Did you ever take a history class? I'm not sure what is causing your anger towards Asians but you need to get over yourself.

      Canada is changing and you're going to have to get used to it. I'm not sure where you went to school. I went to University of Waterloo as a non-asian and enjoyed it. I interacted with a lot of Asians and other races. You should try stepping out of box. Maybe your hatred towards Asians will decrease when you realize they are not "evil robots…trying to take over the world".

      I pity your future co-workers. If you don't like Canada find a European country that is mostly white. Oh…wait…due to immigration to replace populations you never will! Get used to multi-culturalism. It's not going away.

    • By the way, Jope, just being born here doesn't make you Canadian. My father, his father, and his father helped build this country to what it is – thus I am inherently a real Canadian. It's not always as simple as you think. Enjoy our country.

      • Being a Canadian born Asian myself, I cannot believe the ugliness of racism rearing itself out. In response to "my father, his father, and his father helped build this country to what it is – thus I am inherently a real Canadian". I do not see why YOU are entitled anymore than the next person since YOU yourself have not contributed in building Canada.

        But if you want to go that route of arguing that your ancestors building up Canada, my ancestors built the railroad that helped make Canada the way it is today. So yes I will enjoy "our" country since it is NOT one nationality's country but EVERY citizen that lives in Canada.

    • Totally suport you!

    • If the Europeans are Canadians because they've been here longer, wouldn't the Aboriginals be the true Canadians?

    • Oh, um I'm sorry but the French and the English were here "first"? What about the First Nations? How come they don't have some sort of "special status" when the white folks came? How come they JUST got the vote half a century ago? This entire argument is irrational. You're still basing your opinions on white supremacy.

  7. Let's call this sense of entitlement to among white students what it is: racism. As the article suggests, Asians are at risk for being viewed, and treated, like the Jews of the '30s and '40s, when quotas (official or not) blocked the admission of high-achieving students in favour of WASPs who were perceived to be more socially congenial, well-rounded, and, in the case of Ivy League schools, representative of the moneyed elite.

    With respect to this article, objective reporting does not mean that a reporter has to take seriously the racist views (or, more accurately, feelings) of white students, particularly those who would rather drink than study while at university. The integration of Asians into university life (which would in large part depend upon their fluency in English) is a valid line of inquiry, but the value of this discussion is undermined by the writer's chosen theme of "help, there are too many Asians at my school!"

    • Well said. The article was written in a very bias manner.

      • I don't think the article is biased or racist, you're just construing it that way. They could have delved deeper into the positive social aspects of what is for the most part brushed off as "drinking" in the article, which is equally as racist portraying all white people as booze hounds.

        Having graduated from engineering at U of T, there really are two different worlds of kids. The first set live in their rooms memorizing books, develop few social skills over the course of their degree only hanging out with likeminded study buddies and wind up very one dimensional, although with extremely high marks.

        The second set are willing to get a less than perfect GPA so they can mingle with friends from other faculties (and disciplines and mindsets), meet members of the opposite sex, potential future business partners, take on extra-curricular activities, etc. NOT getting blackout 24/7.

        • **continued from above**

          Race completely aside, I would have no problem whatsoever admitting someone in the second group who's SAT score was 140 points lower because they truly are more well rounded. But the Canadian admission system is too superficial so grades are all that matter for both ungraduate and graduate programs and even government funding. So then if I tie back in the fact that the first group is a higher percentage of Asians because they were brought up in that hardworking cultural mindset by their parents, all of a sudden bing, pop, AHHH it's racism, when it's really just sociological facts.

          • So then the issues are more about well-roundedness of students. But this article doesn't present in that way. In fact, you've probably presented better than the article about some important issues. However, the way the article presents itself is very biased and portrays race, study habits, and socializing all in a poor manner.

          • Depends on what kind of grad you are talking about. If research graduate, hell no, we want people who have the brains, not someone who drinks every night. "well rounded" means nothing if someone is applying to biology or chemistry for masters or phD, while marks is everything.

        • But what is exactly wrong if someone wants to study 24 hours a day? Isn't western culture supposed to be individualistic? Who can blame me if I want to live my life the way I want to? Do I have to lick the boots of the whites and beg them to accept me into their cliques? That is what you call by assimilation?

    • PLEASE. Stop comparing the "Asian plight" to Jews. I go to uoft. They make theyre own little society, most asians don't even look at me. I am black. When I get paired up with them as lab partners they act like I am not there and automatically assume I don't know what I am doing. They bring their cultural biases with them. They only speak in their various languages. English is only needed when talking to professors and writing essays. And it took me 7 months to find an apartment downtown because all the places renting out said "Asian-only" and when I called and looked at it. Even offered $100 more for rent they turned me down. So I really don't think you should compare your "plight" to what happened to the Jews. It is nothing like that.

      • it goes in every direction

        • Exactly Guest, that's what I'm getting at, it's how people chose to read into it.

          And Uoft Student, that "Asians are the new Jews" in the article is a way out of control statement, the article isn't written well, but it touches on so many points I still think it has merit.

          I had a similar apartment thing happen in that area south of campus, McCall and whatnot. The landlord saw me and my roommate and immediately mentioned the price was $200 more than the ad, starting saying that we'd be drinking all the time and having friends over and that he'd be sending his grandmother over to check on us to make sure we weren't troublemakers. There just ARE cultural differences.

          • can you blame them, when the authors themselves encourage drinking and socializing over academics?

      • You are right. Jews are for the most part white and thus they benefit from white privilege. Asians are a visible minority and they do not. The situation of Asians is different from that of others and unless you yourself are Asian then you will not understand. Anybody with any sort of education in sociology understands that the "model minority" social construction of Asians is a lie and a fabrication designed for twofold purposes, to use Asians as a bludgeon against other races claiming that their problems are not systemic nor structural, and also to dismiss injustices towards Asians by claiming that they do not suffer discrimination.

    • I really don't think what those students were expressing was a sense of entitlement. The high school I went to in Vancouver was largely populated with teens of various forms of Asian descent, and it's true that that created a very high academic pressure in my school. I was a reasonably good student and I was on honour roll every term but when most students are getting on principals list every term, it's hard to take a sense of pride in your lesser accomplishment. I once got back a test on which I had gotten 83% which I was fairly pleased with, until a friend who was of Chinese descent started agonizing about her test mark, which was two percent higher than mine because it was what she called "an Asian fail". I don't think its right to limit the amount of Asians a university admissions board takes into their school but I also don't think it's fair to look down on students for choosing to go to schools with less academic pressure. Also I am "white" and picked a smaller university over one like UBC but I didn't do that because I would "rather drink than study" and I find that insinuation both racist and insulting.

    • Perhaps the Asian students are mingling and developing social skills, but with other Asian students. Who says that they necessarily have to do their socializing with whites? As well, the whole thing about being well rounded students who have interpersonal skills is hogwash. It is just another way of discriminating against Asian students as is historically done in the US. This is the line that has been fed to the public so it doesn't sound like the racist discrimination it is. University in Canada deals with quantifiable grades, not qualitative measures such as "he's a personable guy with good social skills".

      • I'm not scared by Asians. They pose no threat to me, academically. I agree with you, let university admission be based primarily on academic achievement.

        I have to admit though, this superiority complex that many Asians are displaying in here is, quite frankly, disappointing. Maybe we should all just shut up and get back to work /lives?

    • It's not only a "help, there are too many Asians at my school!" This article is about complaining that "too many Asians" take the place of a white Canadian in university. They also reinforce the idea that Canadians drink and party their way through university is not necessarily true! Asians always study get high marks and don't party much through university is not always true too. This is more or less a "script" for a Hollywood movie that reinforces stereotypes. (a highschool or community college film production project)

  8. This article is going to stir a truckload of controversy, but as a Chinese-Canadian myself, I don't think it's that bad and raises some interesting issues. But a few problems I have with it:

    -The article begins with what is essentially anonymous sources. Come on, MacLeans, you know better than that.
    -The authors have a very subjective narrative, which is fine, but do not take the opportunity to call out clear cases of racism and igorance, and appear a little to willing to let such things slide.
    -There is a missed opportunity here to explore what the real issue is for a lot of universities: their dogged pursuit of international students, to the possible detriment of Canadian students of any race. Please, someone ask Stephen Toope why in UBC's MBA program Canadian students, again of any race, are the minority compared to international students. They have even fewer Canadian students, of any race, compared to international students from Asia alone. How's that working out for them?

    • I believe MacLeans knew exactly what they were doing. Controversial article, whether it was written well or not, was going to go viral with all the social media outlets on the web available for free. I'm sure they considered what kind of an uproar this would cause and decided to go to print with it. Just looking at the number of comments, likes and links to this article passed on by readers of the article, I'd say they succeeded at what they wanted to do.

    • maybe you just need glasses. :( i hope you can afford one

      • Tell that to the creators of avatar…or maybe the guy that started circ du soleli…….

        he sure is a beggar on the street.

        Engineers/ doctors and Lawyers totally under estimate Social Sciences and the Arts.

        We bring in a lot more money to an economy than you most people think.

    • It is poorly written, to a shocking degree.

  9. Why should race be a focus? Even among white people there are people with blond hair, black hair, brown hair, red hair. In terms of eye color there is blue, green, hazel, brown, black etc… However, white people still consider you white even if one person has blue eyes and the other has hazel. White Canadians treat other white Canadians the same, despite certain differences in physical characteristics. In the ideal world, race, ethnicity, skin color, whatever you want to call it, will eventually blend in and be considered at the same level. Just another characteristics, nothing really special, nothing to focus on, nothing to decry, nothing.

    Race should not be a consideration, I personally have the view that skin color should be less of a focus. Accept everyone as humans, and any physical difference as only characteristics, nothing more. Like blue eyes or brown eyes will not single you out among the white community as being different, I don't think skin color should be a basis for profiling either.

    • Why focus on race? Because relevant generalizations can be applied to them. It may be admirable to be politically correct and ignore race, but foolish at the same time.

      As a Canadian-born Chinese male, I'm not offended by this article. The generalizations are true, but we need to all recognize them as such: "generalizations." It doesn't mean that all Asians are like this, it's just a recognized pattern. Once we recognize this fact, 30% of the comments here can be deleted.

      As generalizations, the following are true:
      1. Our Chinese parents emphasize academics and tell us to stay home and study instead of going out.
      2. A high percentage of Asians are not well-rounded and lack key social skills that are needed in the real world.

      The problem with this "meritocracy" is that it is skewed toward academics and is not a true gauge of how successful the individual will be, though it depends what field you're referring to.

      • Who are these Asians, exactly? I go to one of the Univiersities mentioned, and to be quite honest, the Asian students, just like everyone else, seem to have perfectly good social skills. I'm not entirely sure where these ideas are coming from.

        • There is a racist undertone to this article. This is the typical trash that Mcleans features, which is why I refuse to subscribe to it.

    • I agree with you wholeheartedly. However, this article makes no mention at all to skin colour or other physical differences, it focuses solely on cultural differences between Eastern Asians and white Canadians/Americans.

  10. I mean, aren't we all Canadian?

    What does it mean to be Canadian? Or even, American?

    We are not of aboriginal/native descents, and nobody else is more Canadian than them. If you care about your school and is in it to compete, you do just so. Yes, no social life because of the academical side of it? Why not party hard and study hard? If you are not capable of doing so, then party, LESS? University should be enjoyable, it is a lifelong exprience, immensely valuable, don't waste it away.

    Please remember how much you are paying, no matter how you pay, for the tuition fees. Yes, Asians should integrate into the Caucasian population as well, how about vice versa? How about with all of the other "minorities"?

    Think about it.

    • If I wanted to "integrate" into Chinese culture, I would move to China. I sit on a bus and in University classes everyday in CANADA and feel like I am a foreigner. THAT IS NOT FAIR. If people from other cultures want to move here, go nuts, but learn French or English, and have pride in being CANADIAN… just like the rest of our ancestors did.

      • Lena, you seem to suggest in order to be a proud Canadian, you have to speak nothing but English or French. Might I remind you that Canada is recognized as an immigrant country and a multicultural country – with "visible minorities" being the fastest growing population cohorts. English and French may be the language that the settlers and forefathers chose for Canada, but it is by no means the sole language of Canada anymore. If your peers want to speak their language on the bus or in their class, so be it. Integration and communication are two-way streets. If you don't want to interact with them, don't – but don't criticize when they don't want to interact with you. And it's laughable that you mention French – I wonder how many anglophones "integrate" with the francophone community.

        • Steffi – so, you're telling me that if someone moves into my home country and refuses to learn one of two OFFICIAL LANGUAGES, I either have to deal with it or learn to speak theirs?? Did we not learn anything from the whole Native – European issue?? Canada is – for your information – a real Country, we are not a work in progress.

          • then you should learn Cree as this is not your land or my land, but native land

          • So what you r saying is, it is not ok for ppl from Canada to not feel at home because there are massive amts of immigrants.

            imagine this, you r aboriginal and then a bunch of europeans start to pour in and take over. how "at home" do you feel then? how can u criticise when your ancestors did the same things? lena go home

          • poster i'm pretty sure that is what she was saying – to LEARN from the "native – european issue" obviously we cant go back in time and change history, but we can love the canada we live in now. Your mom should have swallowed.

        • Yes, unfortunately the "multiculturalism" only began with the Multiculturalism Act in the 70's. That's less than half a century ago right? So shut up and learn English and French! I am born in Toronto and I know both because when I visit Quebec I want to make sure I have that sh*t downpackeddddd!!! Lena is 100% Right!!!

          • Maybe you Asians should take a Canadian History course if you love this country so much!

          • imagine how many Asians you are referring to got A's in highschool history classes haha you are so laughable

          • Rice is good as it's packed with antioxidants, and there is a reason why Asian population looks younger when they age compare to Caucasian folks lol

            How would those "people"'s money be taken by the Asians if they work hard for it too? Mind you this world, a fairly North American centralized world, we as North Americans have taken granted on all other populations in this world, not just the Asians. If you say Asians take money from others, then North Americans take LIVES from other countries.

            Go study some social issues before you be so ignorant. Go eat your cold bread? LOL

          • So everything's according to law eh? Have you been abiding to all the laws set by the state of this country? Have you jay-walked? Have you ever drunk driving? Sorry, Asian people try hard to learn English (one of the easiest languages on earth), while some ignorant people like you refuse to know your own little language but nothing else.

            Sad case.

        • I completely agree with Lena – and I know many people who do also. This is CANADA, an established country with a history of culture and tradition, albeit young. If we were to move to China, we'd be expected to learn their culture, traditions and language to respect them. ANYONE moving to Canada should do the same.

          • Sadly people around the world learn more of the "North American" culture than vice versa.

            Do most of the North Americans or Caucasians move to China or any other Asian countries thinking that the Asians are better than them so they had to move there, or just for the money and the pride of knowing you are white or from North America?

            A lot of Asians (and any other immigrants) move here thinking they are lower when it comes to the hierarchical rank in the society.

            Think about it.

          • Once they get here they fill forums with comments about how awful canada is and how terrible "white people" are. I don't get why they come!

      • I wonder if there's ever a language called "Canadian"?

        If you want to integrate yourself into the French and English culture, why not move to England or France? See the analogy I have right here?

        Having Asians (do you know what kind of Asians they are? I bet you don't, and they know well of which Caucasian you are) in a part of the culture at where you reside or where you get your education. It is fair as immigrants of all kinds have worked hard, and they come here to settle, pay the same amount of tax (if not more than the others), and still being treated like outsiders.

        Heck, those international students pay much more tuition fees than us Canadian students and both the school and the government take full advantage on that.

        Think about it, Lena.

      • I speak English 90% of the time even though Cantonese is my first language.

        But going by your logic, I don't EVER want to see you, or people like you, stomping into my home and forcing English down my throat. Although considering I'm from Hong Kong, I guess it's already too late.

    • university and enjoyable do not mix, I don't know what planet your from.. School = stress, and it's a business to make money off ya,

      • I agree partially with you.

        School is a business, because you pay to get your education.

        However, some can still enjoy studying, partying or having great time from joining school clubs while they are free from their school work.

    • Though "Canada" derives from First Nations in vocabulary (Big Village or Village) – the country of Canada does not. So calling First Nations peoples Canadian is actually a little off. They would likely consider themselves whatever "Nation" they belong to. Objibwe, Salish, Mohawk etc. Canada Day is not a First Nations symbol. Neither is the national anthem.

  11. I completely agree with the majority of the comments. This article is inflammatory for no reason other than to sell magazines. Besides the state that there are more "Asians" attending university that their demographic in the population would expect (exactly how do they account for international students?), there isn't anything at all to suggest there is any "issue" at all. Integration of the student population is a good goal regardless of ethnicity. If anything the article highlights the wonderful benefits of a meritocracy entrance requirement system in Canada that drives all students of every background to be the best.

    It's deplorable that the article quotes a student with nothing but presumptions about university and it being "Asian" before she attends any university, yet fails to include any of her thoughts about attending the so-called "Asian" university after she actually has some first hand experience.

    • I was thinking the same thing regarding your last paragraph. The girl made that "too Asian" comment, and there was no research or investigation as to where it was coming from. What were her marks like? Did she meet the entrance requirement for that program/school?

      Some teenagers say things as cop outs or sometimes make statements that aren't fully thought out. Is this responsible writing? A couple random quotes are inserted, and now there's conflict between 2 groups in Canada.

      I for one am tired of hearing Asians being the pitted as the opposition. Let's remove race from this article and see what this article really says.

      Some students want to go to university, but don't want to compete with other students academically.

      Thank you Macleans! Very worthwhile article :)

    • As a white female (not only white, but blonde hair and blue eyed) who studied electrical engineering at the university of Waterloo, I'm a touch offended at their portrayal of white girls as only wanting to party and not wanting to mix with "asians". I, like many other people white or "asian" people, worked hard to get into my program and I believe we all got in fair and square….
      btw – I'm now married to an "asian" I met while at UW…..we have two beautiful children and we've integrated together just fine thank you.

  12. I'm a Chinese-Canadian, and some parts of this article is right, and whether we like it or not, we can all most definitely identify which schools are more "Asians" than others.

    Most of the reasons why is that our culture tends to stick together, it's easier to be friends with someone if they know what background they're coming from. You're more likely to be friends where both of you like horses, soccer, and How I Met Your Mother.

    Now switch that with badminton, computer games, and Bubble Tea (which, in fact, most of my "White" friends love, and I love them all for taking up the courage to try it!)

    It's just how it is, there is a segregation, and unless some we all try to experiment in others culture, we'll stay like this.

    I have no problems with being identified as "Asian" (prefer Chinese thank you, as one of the previous poster pointed out, Asia is a continent, not the country that I was born from). But when you straight up assume I like mah-jong or I'm super great at DDR, I'm then insulted.

    Give us a chance, and I also ask that some of us Chinese group to go and try something new when you're not too busy with your work. Go out to a pub, Talk to some other people, be friendly, and just enjoy yourself. We're sometimes a little too comfy in our niche, go out and mix it a bit, and it's gonna take both "sides"s help if we're gonna mix it up =)

    • By the way, it's okay that the demographics for "Asians" are going up, but when you're stopping us from enrolling into universities, then something's wrong. And no, an "Asian" school doesn't HAVE to mean that the school is "unfun, competitive and hardworking". We can be different, and before you judge someone for what background they come from, how about you go up and know them before you hand out any first impressions. I would love to get a chance to make my own impressions based on my character/personality.

    • I like your comment. I went to U of T for chemistry in undergrad (still here for biochem grad school). Most of the students in my program were from mainland China, Taiwan, Singapore or Hong-Kong, and *gasp* we were all friends by the end 4 years! People of all ethnicities just need to make an effort to talk to each other, and we have no problem. Personally I'm more uncomfortable now when I'm in a non-mixed environment.

    • Yes, Eddie, going to pubs to mingle is fairly easy for us "North Americanized" people to do, and even so we sometimes still receive racial stereostypes let alone the new comers.

  13. Asimilate in to society….. Why dont White canadians take the lead and make efforts to integrate minority to mingle? Why do all expect visible minority to asimilate into the society. it should be bothways.Am I wrong ?

    • lead and make efforts to integrate minority to mingle?
      Can you write plain English.

    • If someone moves to Canada it should be because the appreciate Canada for what it is, and not expect it to change to accommodate them. It's not like Canadians are heartless racists, but it's pretty frustrating when there are thousands of Chinese people moving here, only speaking to each other and making no effort to learn about Canada. If you want to cling to your own language (including SPELLING and GRAMMAR) and culture so badly, why not stay in China!?

    • There's an old saying that goes," When in Rome, do as the Romans do." Get it? That is to say, don't expect all persons here to jump into your culture, when you, Asian, or foreigners in general, don't have a working knowledge of English.
      If I was to move to China or Japan, I shouldn't expect them to cater to me, but rather me to try overly to communicate with then in their language.

      • Good that you would try to learn Chinese or Japanese, Beege, if you moved to either of those countries. A lot of expats don't bother, which is why you find expat ghettos. Come to think of it, isn't that a phenomenon you see all over the world? Ethnic enclaves in major cities where Italians, Jews, Chinese, Irish, Indians, Greeks, Cubans, Vietnamese, etc. congregate?

        So what's all the fuss about? If immigrants stay in Canada, their Canadian-born children will be integrated. That's how long the process takes.

  14. Include India in Asia.

  15. These broad generalisations about continents are not limited to Asia. I cringe every time I hear 'North American' in conversation, advertising, and in the news, because people act like the people of North American are one homogenous entity when they are not. Yes, certain countries in North America have some aspects of culture in common, but others are quite different (Canada and Nicaragua for example — and before anyone tries to correct me, Central America is a subset of North America, not a separate continent), making the idea of a homogenous 'North American' culture a bit ridiculous.

  16. Where is Canadian's courage? Imagine now you prefer to choose a "white" university over "asian" university, how about your future jobs? Can you choose to work with asians or white people? When the immigrants came to Canada about 20-30 years ago, they had the courage to integrate into Canadian's university, why does white people complain now? Which way is harder? White people should appreciate and respect the hard work of others no matter their colours.

    • You have a tremendous valid point

      aside from the Western global domination, I still believe the only way to evolve fully is when all the residents of this motherly Earth, contribute and having a common ground to help and compete with each other.

      This world shall be not a skewed view of one race and one race only.

    • Is is about WHITE PEOPLE.
      It is about Diversity.

    • You are perfectly right! Blame the kids who study harder just cauz white kids want more party? Then welcome to the competition!

    • This article should go to garbage.

      This Maclean's magazine should go to garbage and can not be on sale for ever. Either color or white people should learn something from other people's merit and encorage your kids to study hard if you want your kids go to university, find good job and pay their taxes and contribute to Canada. It's common sense. Canada is multicultural country. Don't be jealous and you have no right to blame the kids that study harder. Do you want Canada to be literate country or illiterate country. It is unbelievable.This insulted these kids. That is not fair to them. As Canadians, you have right to express your opinions freely, but you should respect the rights and freedoms of others. Every body has right to be educated in Top Canadian Universities in official language if you can reach their requirements.

  17. So, let me get this straight.

    Students, particularly Asians, who study HARD and don't touch alcohol on campus, are the cause of segregation problems on campus. I see.
    Since too many Asians are in these 'Asian' universities, a change should be made to the merit-based admission procedures, even though the university will evaluate the students' afterward undergraduate performance entirely on a merit basis. Makes total sense.
    "Some students feel they can no longer compete or have fun". The competition is unfair in these 'Asian' universities because the non-Asians feel they cannot compete…So the Asians are making the competition unfair by being smart. Very logical.
    "Some students feel they can no longer compete or have fun". It is also unfair because these non-Asian students cannot 'have fun' during their four years of $25,000+ worth of education. Sad isn't it.
    Merit-based applications are not fair enough, because doctors are humans too, they should be allowed to make mistakes. Right?
    Discrimination in the workforce isn't enough, they gotta start BEFORE you get into the workforce. Great.

    • I would probably say I attend a predominately East-Asian university, and I don't have a problem with it (I'm non-East Asian). I could care less about the demographics of my university. Whoever works hard enough to get here deserves to be here, no matter their race, religion, age, sexual orientation, etc.
      I'm not a fan of the segregation I see though… I try my best to intermingle with other people different from me, because it's the differences that I find exciting and interesting. It's difficult though. Especially when 99% of the clubs on campus are race or religion based (or a combination of the two). Most clubs are titled "Cinese Students' Association of _____", and the expectation is that if you're not Chinese, you shouldn't be at the meetings. I've gotten really dirty looks whenever I've approached different Chinese clubs' booths during orientation weeks' clubs fairs, even though I am very interested in Chinese culture, and my student fees in fact help pay for all of these clubs. I'm really just rambling with this… I just don't like my university's policies when it comes to clubs. Clubs should be open and welcoming to ALL students of the university.

      • I get what you're saying. These clubs are actually supposed to be open to everyone. Trust me, they're not giving you dirty looks lol. They find it really weird that you would join a Chinese club when you're not Chinese. But if you're willing to blend in with their culture when you're in the club, they will be cool with you. What they don't like are people that try really hard superficially to learn about a culture that they have no clue about, but just do it for the heck of it. The reason they hang out with their own race is because of the things they do are related to their background. For example, when's the last time you went to 'sing k', or the last you talked about 'tvb'.
        So the things is that they are not trying to separate themselves from the rest, it's just naturally their interests bring them together, they 'click'. Hope this helps =)

      • Yes, you are absolutely right!… I care no more of demographic, but it seems that there is a certain arrogance from the side of Asian students. Please see my comment on the post below.

    • No. The East-Asians who choose to talk amongst one another in Mandarin/Cantonese/Japanese/Korean/etc WHILE in class, in the cafeteria (while they only eat with other East-Asians) or just out at any social event cause the segregation. I believe that's what the article is trying to say. And please do not tell me you don't see that in university. I'm in first year at Waterloo, and I have never seen a stereotype played out so vividly in my life. I love my classmates who talk to me in English, but as for those who choose to come to Canada to "integrate" with society and then choose to talk their own mother tongue, what's the point of coming in the first place? I am an immigrant, and I can say I still maintain my culture and traditions while balancing my life as a CANADIAN citizen. So if I can do it, so can they. So, my question is, why don't they?

      • So then what about White people who only have White friends? Would you say they are causing the segregation? You can't just blame segregation on a single group of people. If you cannot stand hearing them speak in another language then you should cover your ears. And why would you define being Canadian means speaking English ALL the time?
        And let me tell you something, most of them did not CHOOSE to come to Canada. People don't go to university in order to 'integrate'. They go to get a better education. And before you judge whether a person should hang out with more 'diverse' people, you should understand that maybe people of the same background have more common topics.

      • Well Asians are not the only ones who speak their mother tongues among themselves in public places. EverybodyI see it in all ethnic backgrounds. I am an Asian and I went to a high school with predominantly Eastern European students. During breaks, all I hear is Polish and Ukranians around me. They huddle all in their corner with cigarettes in their hands and talk and laugh in their languages. This happens naturally because English is a second language to them and when they haven't mastered it and it's just easier to talk to somebody who also speak their own language.

      • On the other hand, I know Asians who go out of their way to make sure their kids integrate into the "mainstream" Canadian societies. My boyfriend is half-Vietnamese half-French-Canadian and his Vietnamese father refused to teach him Vietnamese so he will be forced to play and integrate with "Canadian" kids. He ended up getting rejected by both groups. The French-Canadian kids won't accept him because he is half-Asian and looked Asian but the Vietnamese kids rejected him too because he is half-French.

        This just to show you integration and segregation is a two-way street and there is no clear-cut way in defining it.

    • Wow, no one could have said it better than you did. You are right on the point. The authors should have just written these few lines and would have done a great service to this nation in stead of writing the garbage they did.

    • Uh…I'm Asian (Chinese) and was born in Canada, however, I'm NOT smart at all and I had to take ESL when I was young for 3 years because my parents only taught me my native language (vise-versa with my 1 year younger bro) and I know someone who's in the same EXACT situation as me too (including race)!

    • It's just that all the smart people from Asia are here for post-secondary international studies, in which I'm sure everyone knew a long time ago that Asians were profiled as being "smart", so really this is why these "White" people feel this way, which "you" people NEVER took that fact into ANY consideration before, plus, I know how those "Asians" feel, as, like I said, I've experienced it as well, it's because "we" feel really uncomfortable in taking so much time in trying to translate "our" language into English that "we" might as well speak "our" language with someone who speaks the same language as "us" as well! I'm REALLY disgusted at how "you" people discriminate "us" without taking into ANY other considerations beforehand! Like what world are we still in today?! Yeesh!

  18. At least there will still be room in the Medieval Studies courses!


      but some light medieval studies are so very intriguing as well, understanding how the western society became the way it is today

      • I'm Chinese-Canadian, went to UofT AND took a medieval studies seminar. We're everywhere! But also, knights and castles are awesome.

    • Best comment yet.


    • Haha well said!!! This is happening in the US too. We have tons and tons of liberal arts grads who can't find jobs. Meanwhile, grads in science, math, business, computer science, and finance snag well paying jobs.

  19. Very good article.
    It is not about Chinese but that
    Canadian universities are lacking fair diversity policies and fair admission rules.
    All they care about just marks and as result many groups are underrepresented (black, latinos…).
    Current policies like this : 50% of white <> diversity but 50% of Asian = diversity.
    It should be like US top school.

    • what does a fair diversity policy mean? an equal amount of each race regardless of their marks? then what's the point of getting good grades in high school then?

      • Your good mark mean doesn't mean much.
        Mark is just PART of selection process.

        • It's part of the process sure, but changing the admission system because too many Asians in the school, that just sounds wrong…

        • So, what else should the selection be based on? how much you can drink? How much drugs you use??? And I doubt your name is Pat Chan…You coward!

          • I have a friend named Patrick Chan and he posted this article on his FB. This very well might be him. So why exactly do you doubt his name is Pat Chan?

          • How ***many drugs you use.

            And yes, it should partly. It should be based on how you interact with others, not how many hours you spend staring at a text book.

        • Well, not being able to achieve 800 in SAT math is a noble cause? Then fight of it, wasp!

    • The school system was invented by Rockefeller in the states. With so many applicants, the most representing way to know a student's academic performance is by marks. If each student needs to be interviewed to be admitted, it would take a long time for the admission process to go through. As well, universities are business and academic institutions. The most efficient way so far is to look at marks. That is the reality right now. Until a new system is invented, marks are the way to tell how good of a student a person is. So get your marks in or go look for other education programs other than university.

    • wooowooo, hold it right there Mr. FatChance. let me guess, you're stupid. hahaha
      1. if you're white and not stupid, you'll disagree 'cause you find this article stupid calling white stupid
      2. if you're white and stupid, you'll agree
      3. if you're asian and stupid, you'll agree cause you've never seen university
      4. if you're asian and not stupid, you'll disgree, cause you're smart enough to know this BS is raced.
      from 2 and 3, you are stupid. muhahaha

      • Actually, I'm black

        • If that were even true, would you say Rosa Parks should have stayed at the back of the bus because the bus met its "black people" quota and shouldn't have intermingled into the "white people" section of the bus?

          all this article is doing is promoting tokenism – it can go both ways, admitting non visible minorities to REVERSE 'diversity' (as we know it to mean inclusiveness of visible minorities) into schools is the same is plain in simply tokenism.

    • Umm… this is academia. Representation or admittance is based on academic achievement not on race.

      Do you feel the same about the Olympics as well? That it should not be about achievement?

      It's funny how specifying races in this article changing the entire tone. Remove the white and Asian references, and the article becomes – some students want to go to university, but don't want to compete with other students.

      What a worthwhile read.

    • What would you suggest Canadian authorities to do to "improve" this "imbalance" of representation, Mr. Pat Chan? Kill all Chinese and Asian students in unniversities? Or, re-instate the "famous and rightful" Act that banned Chinese immigrants? Dare you swear that you're really a Chan? Don't give me those numbers or any "justification" for this racial motivated stuff! If you believe, as many White do, that Canada should be a White only or White majority country, just honestly say it! I would like to remind you that, based on my experience, any non-white Canadians, even though they are the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th generation, they are seen as foreigners or Asians, in that matter! While a new caucasian immigrant will naturally be seen as a Canadians! That's not right, but that's just what the fact of life is! After all, human beings are also animals.

    • Wow. I think you have a terrible judgement regarding this article. Think about it. When universities take applications, do they have a question to fill out asking if you're Caucasian, Asian or any other different race? They look at our marks, our academic excellence and community involvement. We can't make a "FAIR DIVERSITY" … there's no such thing.

    • The admission rules couldn't possibly be more fair! Its based on marks and everyone has the same opportunity to earn those top marks. It really comes down to if you're willing to work hard to maximize on that opportunity.

    • This article obviously targets on Chinese students with an image showing a Chinese flag and a Chinese graduate. I don't think the author just googled "asian students" and these two images appeared. NO, instead he most likely googled "Chinese student with a flag" or "Chinese students in Canadian universities" etc. What is it trying to say else than "Chinese students are taking over Canadian schools, we should get rid of them?"

    • any other rule except ruling out certain race would not work since as long as the rules come out the Chinese and some of their fellow asians will just work hard to get high scores on the new rules also. Remeber how good Chinese people were in the Olympics. The Chinese never knew most those games just a few years ago.

    • There are many asian who can't attend univeristy due to family reasons or not studying hard enough. Why we need to have diversity in University when admission depending on the the grades and the other performance, which all depends on if the students really want to work hard. A very stupid idea of diveristy in University..hey this is not election MAN!!!!!

    • Diversity policy? There should be no such thing. Merit is the only thing that matters. There is no such thing as underrepresentation. Every person is equally valuable. Nobody should be considered more valuable or desirable because they have a different skin colour. You're a racist.

    • Why are you suggesting that people with good grades aren't doing much outside of classroom? I found the opposite true. People who have good grade tend to have more free time to persuade extra-curricular, whereas, people with bad grades tends, to spend lots of time on homework and sleep and eat….
      And university's purpose is to prepare people for research or professional work. Those jobs take lots of training and it's not easy matters. They need people who can commit their time to research and studying.

    • "Sweet's latest study, “Post-high school pathways of immigrant youth,” released last month, found that more than 70 per cent of students in the Toronto District School Board who immigrated from East Asia went on to university, compared to 52 per cent of Europeans, the next highest group, and 12 per cent of Caribbean, the lowest. This is in contrast to English-speaking Toronto students born in Canada—of which just 42 per cent confirmed admission to university."

      I'm glad you support having more Caribbeans, Europeans, and not to mention other demographics like Native Americans in Canadian Universities. THAT would be real diversity. Canada is more than just Asians and white people you know.

  20. cry me a river. if you don't work hard for it then you don't get any rewards.

    whoever wrote this crap should be fired for trying to sell magazines instead of being a journalist


    • In case you haven't noticed, the goal of any business is to sell. To disregard the idea that magazines need to sell is to disregard the same capitalistic ideals you also claim to value in your first statement.

      • I have a feeling Macleans will be on the receiving end of a libel suit from a high-paid Asian lawyer who studied on Friday nights and graduated near the top of his class.

  21. Is it just me or is this a terribly written article? Page 2 is full of repeat paragraphs, sentences out of place that destroy the meaning of the properly placed paragraphs, and tons of other errors.

    Is this an opinion piece or has Maclaen's run out of editors? It's hard to take this seriously when there's absolutely no professional feel to it.

    • duh, 2 white people wrote it, what do you think??? KO

      • Not only that, the girl is an intern at Maclean's. Really, in the age of Twitter and Facebook, it's all too easy to see the thin slice of perspective that an author writes from..

        In this case, a very, very thin perspective…

        • I agree, I don't see the point of this article. I'm not really sure what exactly they're trying to say?

  22. "Alexandra" sounds wealthy, which is good for her because she also sounds like she's allergic to effort. Give me a reasonable hard-worker or any race over someone who considers higher education based on "chill" factor or good skiing.

    And, yes, of course I am envious.

    • she sounds wealthy, you meant white "she" is a rich spoiled brat? bravo

    • Maybe you should have finished reading the article.

      • Fair point. When paragraphs were repeating, I started losing interest. I assume they fixed that by now, I didn't get to the last paragraph where the mysterious Alexandra ends up at U of T, marries a Laotian boy, and runs for the NDP.

        You'll also have to tell me how Gossip Girl ends.

        • LOL ILU. you are hilarious. : )

    • no, she just feels uncomfortable immersed in that environment. It can be overwhelming if you're not used to it. But that doesn't make someone racist.

  23. I saw it in U of T engineering…

    Having been a student at U of T in mechanical engineering, I have witnessed what this article says first-hand. Memorizing a book and getting good grades doesn't necessarily mean that you are able to apply certain concepts in the real world. Many students do this (not only asians), and I've witnessed the problems that come with it when they either go into the workplace, the lab, or when they have to complete a project that involves translating concepts into real-life problem solving. All races have this issue, but I think that the article rings true when it comes to east-asians ostricizing and isolating themselves from the rest of the student body. Many don't know how to deal with people. Not ALL of them, but many of them. This is coming from someone who has witnessed it first-hand.

    • Then doesn't that mean it is also the school's problem for not properly preparing the students for the real world? Does the school not care if a bridge falls down and it's their name on the diplomas? Many they should have a mandatory course on socializing?

    • BS…You are not Pat Chan, you are coward, pretending to be another race…..

      • Funny how you called the guy a coward on his name and signed in as 'Guest', no? I'm even willing to show my face, and I think Pat brings up a very true set of points. It's really hard in the context of the article and modern political correctness to say damn near anything without being called a biggot or a fascist, but I agree with what Pat Chan is saying having also graduated from U of T engineering and seen the exact same issues he mentions in the workplace.

        • he's calling PatChan, since he does not believe the 'PatChan' is Chinese.

        • I wanna blame and complaint too!

          I wanna blame the Olympic athletes for training too hard; without them, amateurs like me would win the gold medals.

          I wanna blame the hockey players for practicing every days, without them, guys like me who only play a few times a year would be the national team.

          I wanna blame the Nobel price winners for working too hard, without them, commoners like me would get that price.

          I wanna blame rich people for pushing up the price of brand name polo's. Without them, I would be able to get a few brand name polo's at 20$

          in the end, it's all people's fault, and all we need to do is blame others.

          as long as we don't blame ourselves, that's cool enough :)

          * sarcasm*

          • education is the right. hard working in university as necessary or :pay more tuition or be kicked out of university — if failed the exams…. I don't think that anybody can have the degree from university without hardworking…

    • Agree with you on this one, Pat. In my working environment, which would consider quite hi-tech, I don't see my fellow chinese coleagues are especially smater than the 'white' colleagues. I don't thinkany 'white' should be worried. If you think you are smart and you do not want work too hard for the high school grades you probably is not missing much, but make sure you know what you are doing, other wise, get in a college and it does not have to be the top ones.

    • I think it's more of an issue of engineering students of all races in general being extremely socially awkward and ostracizing themselves from the rest of society. It's the gift and the curse of proficiency in science. This is coming from someone who has witnessed it first-hand.

    • i think if your a white guy in mechanical engieering..your gonna be as nerdy as the asian guy beside you

      • Yes, thank you for pointing that out. Majority of engineers are just awkward, myself included. It has nothing to do with race.

    • Well it's great you've witness this first hand, it seems like just because you've witnessed a minor fraction of east asians in your majour doing this that means ALL east asians must do this and because YOU have not witness first hand other races doing this then they must be doing well socially.

    • it's funny that you are an engineering student.
      engineering is nothing about memorizing books.
      in other word, u can't be good at engineering by memorizing books.
      u are just making excuses because u are too lazy and dumb to study.
      university is about hard work.

  24. This article is garbage. White Canadian students do not think like this. Besides the obvious racist undertone of the entire article, the most annoying thing to me is the way it represents "white Canadians" First of all, on a side note, referring to a demographic of people as White (who could be from Eastern Europe or South Africa, etc.) is no more right than referring to one as Asian (who could be from China, Kazakhstan, or Kuwait. However, I'm assuming that the article generalizes Asian to mean people from the Eastern part of the continent. Anyway, the racist and lazy attitudes presented in the article are representative of only one demographic of people in Canada: the upper middle class to rich kids. It's not a secret that the wealthier kids prefer to go to Queen's, McGill, and Western because of their predominantly white populations, and good reputations without a huge workload. There is a reason why certain other highly reputable schools were not mentioned in the article even though their "Asian populations" aren't particularly high. The reason is that they're not safehouses for lazy rich kids who are going to ride their parents wealth through life.

    • Thank-you!

    • I was at Queen's from 1998 to 2002 and from what I remember, there were PLENTY of Asian kids there. Just not as many as, say, Waterloo.

      • This is out of curiosity. But are these Asian kids International students or do they go to elementary and secodary schools in Canada?

    • There's lots of asian ppl at Queen's and McGill. I just finished up at McGill and it was not an easy workload at all. We are known for having some of the most intense science and engineering courses in the country. But I do agree with your critique…..just not that Queen's and McGill are in the same category as Western.

    • I'm of Chinese descent, I went to McGill…. and what is this "without a huge workload" thing that you speak of? I suppose it varies from faculty to faculty, but in science and engineering, I actually think we had a heavier workload than kids from Waterloo. (some courses had 3 assignments a week, others had 2-3 tests/midterms — I remember studying 16 hours/day)

      Also, I don't know where people get the idea that McGill is predominantly white (which in their minds means WASP)…. Sure, there were many fair-skinned people, but most of them were either Americans, European, Quebecois. There were a couple from the "rest-of-Canada", but they were certainly not the majority. There is a lot of subtle diversity at McGill.

      In fact, it's so bad that the sense of social cohesion at McGill was pretty low — everyone was just so different from everyone else. I'm now living in Southern Ontario, and I sense a much higher degree of social cohesion here because of shared values and culture due to the sameness.

    • Wow – Way to over generalize. Having graduated from Queen's University a few years ago (2007), I can tell you first hand that not all students are "upper middle class to rich kids." Let me tell you something, I graduated as top male from a rural school and got into Queen's based on merits, not on how much money my parents were earning because they weren't earning much. Like many students, I applied for OSAP to pay for the majority of my tuition and received bursary funding from the University.

      Before university, I remember working terrible hours as a farm labourer picking tobacco for several summers to earn money. Yes, there were wealthy people who attended Queen's, but I can say with confidence that each university has its share of wealthy students. You're rant is disappointing.

      So – now it's my turn to over generalize. You're bitter. You obviously didn't attend Queen's University, and I'm glad that you didn't. Aside from money, which obviously was a huge blanket for you to hide under, the reason you didn't get into Queen's is because you're an idiot. All you had to do is work hard to achieve high grades and extend yourself to the community and help out, and you just couldn't do it.

      Actually, I retract my statement. You're not just an idiot, but lazy, too.

    • Hey Dylan you'll make a good pet for People's Republic one day, mabe they'll let you clean their sewers.

      • You realize that the majority of Chinese people living in the West are not communists, right?

        • You realize the majority of Chinese people living in China are not communists, right?

      • Hey Jack, you'll make a good pet for KKK one day, maybe they'll let you lick the blood of their shoes.

    • This article is far from being garbage. While I agree with you stating that white Canadian students don't think like the way the article tries to present, it does highlight a point that is being rarely discussed: high presence of student diversity doesn't mean high interaction between students with different backgrounds. If students of different backgrounds don't take the initiative to intermingle with each other, what's the point of diversity?

      However, my main issue is I have a problem with your assertions that wealthy kids go to Western, Queen's or McGill because they are overwhelming white and the school's workload is light. I am sure that if you study engineering, commerce or pre-med, you'll still get TONS of work to do no matter what school you go to. And as a Western grad, I do see a fair share of Asian student population while I was there (ok, maybe not as large as those in U of T, York or Mac, but still a visible presence)

      One more thing, although often characterized as such, not all rich kids are spoiled irresponsible snobs. Keep this in mind.

      • One more thing, although often characterized as such, not all rich kids are spoiled irresponsible snobs. Keep this in mind.

        Then why don't most of them (the white kids quoted in the article) study their asses off like the Asian kids they're putting down? Could it be that they're expecting Daddy's money to get them through life (like President Bush?) Or, is it that they're really and truly lazy?

        • by the time when they are about to fail school and no one can help them but themselves, I am sure that they will start straighten their lives up and get their asses working. besides, the white kids quoted in this article are just gone small group of people and that doesn't mean that every rich white kids think that they can breeze through universities and think Asians as nerdy. and i think the main problem of this whole article is that it picks a small number of a big group then make a quick generalization like the rich kids are lazy who wants the easy way out and Asians are nerdy who lacks other social skills. Great

      • It's funny that drinking is mentioned in this article. Some Asians are Muslim and it's prohibited, so that excludes them from the type of intermingling these authors had in mind.

        I think that this article could have been important if it was properly researched and well-written. As it is, it was clearly intended as a shock piece.

    • It's not a secret that the wealthier kids prefer to go to Queen's, McGill, and Western because of their predominantly white populations, and good reputations without a huge workload.

      Most of your comments make sense. That particular statement is BS.

      The reason is that they're not safehouses for lazy rich kids who are going to ride their parents wealth through life.

      Aren't you a bitter and envious person? That statement is garbage.

      • Agreed. As a white female, who went to private school (on scholarship), and to Queens (not because its predominantly white) I found Dylans comment EXTREMELY offensive….

        I take it he didn't go to Queen's, McGill or Western…. You are clearly missing some crucial information… that we have a smaller workload?? Safehouses for lazy rich kids??… wow. Just unbelievable.

        What is more concerning is how many people "liked" his comment!! Really guys?!?! Is that what you think of private school kids? or people who went to Queens, McGill, or Western?

        Firstly, have you ever even thought about how many private school students ARE there on scholarship?? Not everyone who goes to private school is wealthy!!! People hear I went to private school and assume I'm some kind of snob… little do they know, my family is not wealthy by any means and I worked my buns off for the opportunity to go there!!!

        Secondly, Queens does have a good reputation but certainly not one for a lighter work load!!! You make your own university experience, if you choose to be lazy and not do a lot of work, thats what you get out of it. That, by no means, makes Queen's a safehouse for "lazy, rich kids".

        I'M offended by this entire article, and I'm not Asian, I can't imagine how they feel about it if I am so offended!!!!!!!!!!

  25. Thanks so much for portraying white-Canadian students as beer guzzling social butterflies with little academic focus. We appreciate it.

    • I don't think the "Asians" are too happy with how they are portrayed here either.

      It's probably best for everyone to just ignore this article.

    • I am gonna skip class this evening, throw out a party, drinking till morning, and having fun everyday …just to fit in with the mainstream society from now :)

    • I'm Asian-Canadian student at UBC and I was even offended by those kind of comments.. mainly referring to Sue's comment. The Asian people I know drink more than my white friends. Keep in mind we live in Vancouver, tons of clubs are known to be "Asian" clubs.
      I think UBC is too Asian and should tone it down on the number of international Asian students they let in. They're annoying and snobby and love to just show off their money

      • Mmm
        You know what maybe it would be worth it to try and understand where the "annoying and snobby" Asian (could this word be any more vague?!) students who "love to just show off their money" are coming from. I'm not Chinese nor Filipino nor Thai, in fact my parents are Irish/ English Canadians, but I spent 18 years of my life living the the vast vagueness of Asia (Hong Kong, more specifically) with kids you would probably label snobby, but you know what dude, different people value different things for different reasons. Instead of whacking on it it might be a little more productive to learn and try understand other people's backgrounds.

  26. "Africa" too. If you tell someone you're going to europe, the next question usually goes "where in europe?"
    if you tell someone you're going to Africa. 9/10 times the conversation ends. Casual generalization or just pure ignorance, you decide.

    • I used to live in Sudan, Africa for 5 years, and all my friends back home kept thinking I was living in South Africa… go figure.

    • Conversation ends because the people you are talking to know very little about Africa. The ignorant generalize.

  27. Now why even bother consider going to university if this thought of a school being "too asian" or "too white" or whatever even pops into your head? Clearly anyone who even thinks this is unfit for academics as their mind is not broad enough for this world.

    • a very unbiased and valid, point!

    • agreed!!

    • I'll drink to that!

    • Being "broad" means thinking about more than just academics… a social scene is included in this.

  28. I am a grade 12 student currently applying to universities. I was originally considering going to Waterloo University but was advised not to do so because it was "full of Asians", and also that the courses and workload at UW was extremely tough. I 100% agree that it is morally unjustifiable for a university to accept people based on their race. Universities should be handing out acceptance letters based on marks alone. However, i will admit that as female of Finnish descent, i do want to go to a University that is a little bit easier and "whiter" than institutions such as UofT and UW. I think that it speaks more about Canadian Culture and less about "Asian Culture" that the students we are raising today are not giving 100% to their studies. With that being said, is the fact that we may be underachieving compared to our "Asian" counterparts a bad thing?? Although you attend University for the schooling, there are many other factors that affect where someone goes to University. Having a social life is also extremely important, not to mention having school spirit adds to the university experience as a whole. Is there a link between the number of "Asians" in a University and the amount of school spirit that a University has? There seems to be. Call me racist for wanting to go to a "white" University, but the fact is I am being honest. I have best friends who are of Korean descent and African descent, yet I think that if I went to a University with student that were mainly of Asian descent that I would not feel as comfortable. A friend studding at University of Waterloo for their second year of their undergrad told me stories about being discriminated against because of being white. In fact, I know many people leave these institutions after their first years in order to go to "whiter" institutions. If a University chooses people based on their ethnicity in an effort to maintain their institution, I can understand why a University would choose to do so.

    • "A friend studding at University of Waterloo for their second year of their undergrad told me stories about being discriminated against because of being white."

      Ironic slip?

    • "Is there a link between the number of "Asians" in a University and the amount of school spirit that a University has? There seems to be."

      Where's your reference for the above statement?

      Also, correlation is not causation.

      May you learn these things at university.

      • You might learn that not everything has a quantitative value. This is the problem I found while attending Waterloo. There are some experiences in life that go beyond the theory you are trying to apply. She is obviously referring to the traditional "rah rah" go to homecoming, football, basketball etc… type experience. This has been viewed as the university "norm" for over 100 years in Canada and the US. Those who simply study and avoid other people (as is common at Waterloo) are not generally viewed to be as productive to society. If one is great with numbers but, can't interact at an appropriate level with other people, how could that person ever be an effective manager?

        The sad thing about Waterloo is that you will get students to show up for Japanese student events or Chinese student events but, good luck getting them to show up for a UW event. Contrast that to Laurier down the street where student groups are much more inclusive and "school spirit" is for WLU not a ethnic faction of the student body.

        • I should add that as far as student organizations go, the same goes for any student group based on any ethnicity. The overall point of the article is that what we actually seem to be ending up with is self-segregation disguised as diversity.

    • I'm at UW for Civil, class of 2013. I am Chinese-Canadian. Within my class I have Chinese friends. I also have friends in my class who are Metis, white, Middle-Eastern, Jewish, Korean, Filipino etc. My class, composed of 120+ people are chill with each other. We don't discriminate against each other. Even in the res, I haven't seen the type of racial discrimination described.

    • I love this hilarious preconception that everyone at UWaterloo is over-achieving. It means that after I mention that I go to UW, people immediately think I'm extremely hard working (which I personally think is great). For the record, you can party in Waterloo as much as you want, and the truth is, University is as fun as you want it to be. As for the fear of feeling uncomfortable at UW because you're white, that is also hilarious. Besides the fact that diversity should not be uncomfortable in Canada, I think you missed one of the main points of the article, which is that the "Asian" students tend to keep to themselves. I don't want to overgeneralize here, but that is definitely the trend for Asian international students, new Canadians, and even second generation immigrants.

    • Sunshine, your university experience will happen the way you want it to happen. Going to UW does not mean you're going to be surrounded by rude Asians who hate white people. You will find the people you want to be with and have the best time of your life. I go to UW, and people tease me that I go to Waterwoo. I am Caucasian. I have Asian friends. I also have Caucasian friends. and Native friends. And Jewish friends. Everyone gets along. Some Asian people are rude, but lots of Caucasian people are as well. Same with African people, and Jewish people, and Finnish people, and the blue people…It all depends on the PERSONALITIES you associate it, not the race. Don't be so blind. Go to school for your academic interests; friends and social life will come after, trust me. Waterloo is also a highly respected school, with plenty of opportunities for social advancement. Guess what I'm doing next Friday? Going on a pubcrawl. With Asian students.

      Bonus: since there are a lot of Asian students, there's also lots of awesome Asian food, like all you can eat sushi.

      If you chose your university based on predominant skin colour and from what people have told you (do the people who told you not to go to UW go there, or did they hear this from their droid Laurier friends? (yes, that was intentional.)), you need to take some classes on social acceptance of diversity and cultures because honey, the world is not white. Deal with it and make your decision based on what the university can offer you for your academic interests and goals.

    • Dear Layla18,

      I am very sorry for your intelligence.

    • I disagree with your statement that University acceptance should be based on marks alone. Sure, marks should be considered, but not the only factor. Like you said, it is important to have a social life. Shouldn't universities see that you are well rounded? And not that you just sit in your room all day studying to get that 99 average?

    • It's sad that young people today are afraid to say what they really feel because they are afraid to sound racist. Everyone on here has construed this article and everyone elses' comments, altered their words in order to accuse them of being horrible people. So many snide comments, it's not even about the issue at hand anymore. I think it's great that "Layla18" is contributing her own opinion, and she is entitled to it. The fact is there is more to University that grades, and considering these facts is important while choosing a University. She is not a racist. If foreign students are entitled to use our education facilities, Canadian students are certainly entitled to their own opinions about it. I am (an older) student as well, and it IS frustrating having classes full of people who speak in other languages to each other, and contribute nothing to (ie) class discussions. That's what I think, and you people calling names and writing little one liners isn't going to change my own experience or beliefs.

    • social life and studing doesn't conflict with each other. but when we are a student, studing is more important than social life. of course, that doesn't means you can't have a social life.

    • I'm Chinese, but I agree with what you mean about being more "comfortable". I think everyone has the freedom to choose the environment they're most comfortable in, since I would rather go to a Asian school than a white one because I'll be more comfortable there. To say otherwise is hypocritical.

  29. I'm a 60-year-old white guy. I don't give a damn about skin colour. Hard-working Asians and other immigrants are what's going to save this country. It's certainly not privileged white kids with a sense of entitlement who go to private schools like Havergal.

    • As a BSS Old Girl of Chinese descent, I'd like to let you know that schools like BSS and Havergal have PLENTY of Asian students who probably have the same "sense of entitlement" you allude to. It's the media like Macleans who seem to think that ethnic minorities don't send their kids to independent schools.

      • most people at bss/ucc/havergal etc are not asian.theyre white and this is fairly representative (as a white graduate of one the toronto schools who went to western)

        • The "most" is not very big. I graduated from BSS in 1998 and I think my class was over 30% East Asian. And no, the remaining 70% was not WASP. I don't think WASPs even made up more than 30 or 35% of the class. I imagine that the numbers have not changed very much in 12 years.

        • By the way, I'm guessing you went to UCC. How did you manage the IB program? Your spelling and grammar are atrocious

          • lol r u an english teacher? i did well , rode on some entitlement and continue to win at life

          • Cynthia, you're completely correct about BSS demographics. My graduating class, the class of 2010, was 45% non-white.

            As a very recent BSS Old Girl, I can say without a doubt that many if not most of the students in my class did not feel "entitled" to a university experience. We all understand that getting into the university of our choice requires a tremendous amount of hard work throughout our four years of high school, and BSS prepared us to tackle that challenge. I chose to attend BSS because I knew that it would help me become a better student, not because I though it was some sort of free pass into the university of my choice.

            And in case you were wondering, I'm a non-Asian studying science on scholarship at Queen's. I have a high academic standing and strong work ethic – not an inflated sense of entitlement – to thank for that.

  30. This article is pointless in pointing out which school is Asian or not. University education comprises of 4 to 5 of a person's life while a career is 20 to 30 years of a life. If a person chooses to wing through university by partying and drinking at the expense of a good career then that is their choice. There are a lot of elite white students as well as Asian students at U of T. U of T is just one of those schools where you have to work hard for it. If you (of any race) chooses to work hard for the degree, then choose the school which requires more work. Otherwise, choose the school which has a more relaxed curriculum. Easy. I don't know what the point of this article is to draw the difference and quote the student's response. Even if Asian students study in math / engineering, it doesn't make them a good engineer in the future. This article completely lacks the point that life requires hard work.

  31. wow, thanks for this offensively prejudiced article. i think it's about time i cancel my macleans subscription.

    • this article was not .
      meant to be "racist" or "prejudice"
      This article represents how many people (mainly students attending these institutions) feel.

      • Hmm, let's see, Alexandra, Rachel, and some other vague generalizations? Sample size of n = 2-ish? Sounds about right to me.

        Here's a counter argument. I talked to some of my friends who read this article and we, and many others, feel that these students are lazy, confused teenagers who don't know what they want in life or have a clue how to get it.

        • Last time I checked, university is where you are supposed to figure out what you want to do with your life. I guess you will just need to trust in the system and hope it sets them on their right path in life. I would also argue that while those attending private schools may be "well off", they also tend to have higher academic standards than public schools. You can't call someone lazy you've never met.

      • As a (white, female, lesbian…I don't know what other boxes I can put my self in for you) student who attends UofT, and has many friends at UofT from a myriad of backgrounds, I would just like to say that I, and I don't believe that any of my friends, hold these beliefs.

        This article's tone is racist, and it is ridiculous for Maclaens to have cited some "prospective students", who, frankly, sound to me as if they won't last long in any institution that requires any form of academic rigor, as some kind of overarching sentiment among students in these institutions. If you aren't up to the standard, don't come here. Because, trust me, we don't want you.

        • Hear hear!!

        • If you're moving to Canada from somewhere else, and you're not up to accepting that Canada is a country, with a culture and a way of life, and you're planning to completely ignore that and go about your business like you are still in your own country, surround yourself with only people from your own country, and then expect Canadians to just deal with the foreign language road signs and conversations in their classrooms, don't come here. Because, trust me, we don't want you. It has nothing to do with skin colour, it's about culture and language.

      • Shouldn't we question why non-Asian students are not entering university at the same rate? Afterall, post-secondary educated population is pretty much a universally accepted requirement necessary for Canada to succeed in the future?

      • It doesn't matter what the intentions of the article were/are, the fact is that it IS racist.

        • no it's not. People are just eager to find anything politically incorrect, anywhere they can.

    • yes, i agree!

    • Agree! Let`s boycott Macleans for trying to incite racial hatred!!!

      • You and everyone posting similar comments as you are missing the point. This is exactly the type of discussion a university educated population should be able to have without throwing around accusations of "racism" (real or perceived). I applaud the writer for having the strength to tackle an issue no one else seems interested in touching (especially universities).

        • Why don't we discuss it when white men still overpower in all executive positions? Seems to be just as valid to appoint someone of another race/gender into an executive position regardless of their merit.

    • I'm with you. Pretty disappointed with this article.

    • A university graduate are you? I would hope one who has attended a university is capable of being able to explore both sides of a sensitive topic. If not, you clearly missed the point of getting a higher education.

  32. I agree!!
    why is it that someone asks some questions and immediately gets called "racist"?
    can we not have these discussions ?

  33. Whoever wrote this article makes Maclean look very prejudice. I thought it was one of those magazines where you can rely on the "Top Schools Ranking".

    • I would not rely on MacLean's school rankings, had they written this article or not. Their rankings are based on SELF-REPORTS from the universities – if the universities do not submit survey information they are not ranked therefore making them look like bad universities.

      the best way to find what university is for you is to visit the campus and find out what the university has to offer you first hand.

  34. I know plenty of students of Asian descent, including those at "whiter schools" like Queen's (and yes, there are a lot of Asians at Queen's) who were more or less "forced" into certain majors – usually hard sciences or business (and business, meaning finance, not more creative majors like marketing). I saw this with my very family. I have a distant relative who more or less CRITICIZED my parents for "allowing" me to pursue a liberal arts degree (B.A.Honours in history and drama) because it wouldn't lead me anywhere. I really wanted to ask her whether she'd ever heard of law school (though ultimately, I ended up in digital publishing), and I really regret not doing so. Also, out of all the first degree relatives in my generation, only two of us (out of nine) did not major in something that is what many Asians consider "useful." What's really interesting is that Asians really appreciate performing arts, but while young children take piano or violin (let's say), they aren't supposed to gain such an interest that it becomes a profession.

    • My parents were criticized as well for letting me pursue a B.A. and I had little choice but to attend U of T over other schools I thought would be a better fit for me. I think their logic was, 'Well, if she must pursue this, then it better be at U of T' because then they can tell their friends I go to U of T and then try to avoid discussing what I'm studying in hopes that they assume it's engineering, math or business.

  35. This article is looking to spur controversy where there is none. I love how U of T President Naylor calls this a "non-issue." What are Maclean's motives for writing the article? Are universities going to start screening based on race? Ridiculous…

    • I feel the same way. Kudos to Nalor. The thing is, this article did not provide specific recommendations for what should be done. What's the bottom line of this article? I still don't know.

  36. I'm enrolled in Engineering at U of T and I have to agree, U of T is too Asian. I'm not racist, but when you enter a room and the dominant language is Chinese instead of English, and most around you are speaking Chinese, that's when you know there's a problem. Asians are a majority in U of T and everyone else is a minority.

    • thank you for having the courage to say this!!

    • Do you go into Engineering to learn about engineering or to learn that your classmates are Asian and keep thinking that this is a problem?

      • Is it Canada is multicultural society
        This is Toronto not Beijing

      • I also go to University to have social interactions with people. I'm not the person who spends their whole lives studying and ignoring others. I study what interests me, at the same time I like to interact with others. It's hard when half of them barely speak the language you do or are all associating themselves with their own kind. Believe me, many non-Asians in UofT feel like this, but won't say it in public (hell, I'm saying it on the internet myself).

        • well is it asian's fault that no enough white kids go to engineering in this country???
          Like you most chinese ppl i know do go to parties and socialize way more than you can imagine…
          And if you think this is legit issue and want this solved…why not report to the head dean or something..maybe we can have an open debate about this, actually this is a good idea cuz that would get "chinese cannt speak english" out of the way…

    • And why is it a problem??

    • "U of t is too Asian."
      "I'm not racist."

      Excellent logic. Do you realize that "too Asian" implies there is supposed to be a "correct" level of Asians in the school? Should I assume that your preference would be for "none"? Why don't you worry more about your own grades and getting through the program instead of your prejudices?

      • First of all, I'm not a racist. I have many close Asian friends. The problem with U of T is that they dominate the atmosphere, so in terms of social interaction with others, it's difficult for a non-Asian. Again, in my original post, I've talked about going into some rooms where the majority of the class is speaking Chinese. This is Canada and I shouldn't have a problem not understanding what the majority of people in my class are saying because they're speaking another language.

        What is my preferred level? How about proportional to other races so there isn't a clear majority?

        Addressing your last comment, I work hard in my programme and ensure I do well in it. However, when I go to university every day, I also look to have a social interaction with people. Please don't tell me what to worry about because I can figure that out for myself.

        • I love how people always defend themselves by saying, "I'm not a racist. I have many (insert ethnic group here) friends."

          You seem to be offended by the fact that people dare speak a language other than Canada in English. If your Professor started teaching the class in Mandarin, I can understand the issue you would have, but how is understanding your classmates' conversations in anyway important to your education and your well-being? Also, you yourself have stated that you have Asian friends; to me it seems that you're not having trouble finding a social life in university, despite the overwhelming "Asianness" you object to. Or wait! Is it that you prefer your friends *not* to be Asian?

          You're a racist, plain and simple.

          • He is not racist. It is really quite shamefull how easily people throw around that term these days. In Canada, there are two official languages. It would be helpful if those coming to this country from anywhere would show enough respect to learn one of those languages well enough to communicate in it every day! Language is a real (not perceived) barrier to discussion. The whole point of unviersity is discussion. No one should have to walk into a classroom in Canada where they feel like the outsider because they speak english!

          • There are two official languages in Canada, and I'm sure the students know how to speak at least one of them or they wouldn't be in that university in the first place. It's time you show respect for your fellow citizens by acknowledging that they have a FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT to speak whatever language they want. Anyone demanding people to be speaking English/French all the time is, in fact, A RACIST.

        • Great way of putting it. I go to UW and the exact same thing is happening here. I find it even hard to say it online

        • So you feel uncomfortable because they were speaking Chinese…..I see. You shall never go to Chinatown then. As long as the university still teaches and instructs in English, then you have no reason to complain.
          Imagine the comfort level of an Asian walking into a city hall meeting then.
          And before you tell Asians to go 'mingle', why don't you tell some white dudes to go get some Asian friends. That's a stupid thing to do because you have no right to control anyone' social circle.
          And why don't you go scream diversity to the NBA.

          • It's not like the White person tries to befriend someone of eastern Asian descent; sometimes it does not work out
            NBA is completely different situation; its not like they choose black and white players because that's the trend, it is because they are more skilled; they earned it. NBA diversity has nothing to do with social interactions at the university level

          • And those Asians got into university because they are more skilled. What's your point?

          • It's that when they get into university, they don't interact with anyone but others of the same descent, hurting the university as a whole

          • How does not 'mingling' hurt the university? A university is a business. If the student really really really wanted to mingle and meet new people, university won't be the only place to look for it. Would you mingle with people you had no common topics with? It doesn't matter what race you are, in order to mingle, you gotta have common topics. When's the last time you were interested in what 'tvb' is or what are the rules regarding receiving 'red pockets'.

          • I disagree with FTK's sentiments as a whole, and to alienate all Asians is beyond silly… I won't even go there. I do also have to disagree with you, though — I do think there is value in being able to integrate ourselves regardless of race. In a country and city (Toronto) where we boast multiculturalism, social integration and assimilation is certainly important. It is a responsibility of ALL races, not any one in particular.

            Why only stick to what is comfortable and known to you? That's the best part of living in a country with so many different cultures — why not make an effort to try and get to know the lifestyles and values of those around you? Racially-exclusive cliques of any kind can really hinder full acceptance (not just tolerance) of one another. I'd like to think that Canada's multiculturalism extends beyond that.

          • How people wish to interact is their own choice. Who are you to say otherwise?

            I'm curious to hear what you consider to be "hurting",

          • thats what frosh is for

        • I hear you. I don't believe you are racist.

          My only thought is… "Hey… when in Rome…."

          When I go Little Italy, there are Italians there. When I go to Little Jamaica, there are Jamaicans.

          I've visited friends in various universities in Canada and the US and you know what? There are Asians there. They like to pursue higher education. It is what it is.

          There are 2 options. Leave or make the best of it. I'm sure professional athletes face similar situations when they're the minority.

        • This is canada, and you should be comfortable with multiculturalism. Learn to integrate , i bet all those students speak english as well. Hey thats cool you have asian friends you are a saint! I am asian (My family helped build Canada 100 yrs and counting) and I have white friends and let me tell you i think lots of them are pretty racist about lots of topics and issues. I went out to a friends party last night and heard the same asian joke from 6 people there asking if the asian worker there was my uncle… I would say that you are racist but non-racist people can still be offensive. Though you might feel like you are in the right as an Asian I am offended by your comment. It is not a problem 1/4 the worlds population is asian.

        • exactly, this is Canada, this is the country that is so free that people believe "i might disagree with what u say but i will fight until death your right of saying it". And yet u cant even stand a group talking in a different language. Hypocrisy much?
          And again, it is not the asians fault that other kids hates engineering.. promoting engineering in other racial groups is what you need to do, not blaming on asians..
          BTW, I also see romanian kids in my class speaking romanian, ukranian kids speaking their language while speaking broken english…and no one gives a crap?

    • Again, so what if they are a majority? Your own president said it's a non-issue and most would probably agree with him…the man is a Rhodes scholar, I'd take his word over most people's…

      • His opinion isn't my opinion. I don't care how many degrees he has, his issues are different from my issues. The more people = The more tuition.

      • doesnt matter if he's a rhodes scholar. he's managing the reputation of his university. wouldn't look good to donors and benefactors such as the Smith Family if 80% of students are asian and he said it was a problem

    • I normally try not to feed trolls, but, seriously, how is this a problem? What do you propose to solve "a problem" like this? Shall institutions allow x number of people from skin colour c, and y number of people with religion r, and z number of people that like the ice cream flavour f? You know because that way, the problem might go away and you will no longer be part of the minority. Since you seem to imply that minority is a bad thing, what do you do to improve the minority situation in other areas?

    • I went to UofT too – but my political science and art history classes were too white.

      • It is funny how this post has +3 rating whereas posts that say "too Asian" has -50 rating. If one is racist the other must be too.

        • That's because UofTStudent2's comment was meant as a joke, just in case you didn't catch that..people appreciate humour, not racism.

      • Finally! Someone who gets it!

    • I know you're not an English major, but when you write "I'm not racist, but" it means that yes, yes you are indeed racist.

      Hope that helps.

    • And why exactly is it a problem if Asian students dominate at U of T (which, by the way is untrue, I go to U of T, and Asians are not the majority). And if people around you are speaking Chinese? Is it that you are suddenly thrown out of your comfort zone? I can see it being an issue if your prof was lecturing in Chinese because, hey U of T is an English medium school.

      Asia is a big continent and not everyone on it speaks Chinese. AND it is not just "Asians" that hang out together… once again Asia is neither a culture nor a nationality… its more likely what you are seeing are groups that share linguistic and cultural backgrounds… for example… people from Hong Kong speak a different language and share a different culture to say, people from Beijing or … Haerbing, and will then probably hang out with other students from Hong Kong — because they relate, over food, pop culture, missing hk, not getting how things work in canada etc etc…. And, its not just "Asian" students who hang out in groups, Greeks do it, Slovenians do it , Poles do it, Columbians do it… if you haven't noticed… people in Toronto do generally tend to hang out with their "own kind".

      And you have to wonder why people do… from my experience people who I have met who are "true Canadians" have rarely shown a genuine interest and open mind with trying to understand my background. I've heard outright racist remarks and ignorant comments from many of the people I have met in my 2.5 or so years in Toronto. It makes me sick… I don't want to have anything to do with people like that.

      By the way, you are racist. I know it's a hard thing to admit, so I'll say it for you.

    • What kind of solution do you propose to the problem of "U of T being too Asian"? Kicking out all the Asians? Isn't the problem here simply that they're speaking Chinese, and not speaking to you? Why don't you try to be part of the solution instead of perpetuating the problem by resenting Asians? Multiculturalism cuts both ways – if you tried to talk to the Chinese-speaking students, I imagine they would speak English back to you. If they don't, hey – at least you'll know how they feel being ostracized by "mainstream" society.

    • Does Asian equal Chinese? Are you sure you meant too "asian"? Or too "Chinese"? Or actually, was it Mandarin? What dialect? Were they Canadian-Chinese students or International Chinese students? You cannot generalize all Asians into one category. By using a blanket term like "Asian" you are generalizing the diverse cultures, ethnicities, languages, religions, etc. into one.

    • If you ever go for a PhD you will find you will be advised to go to another place for diversity and learn new languages because it's actually a good idea in this globalized world.

      In Canada, there's more than one official language. English is not the be all and end all for Canadian standards.

      • My f