Angry white men

There is a lot of misdirected rage in America, but the politics of anger works. And we’re starting to see it in Canada.


Joe Raedle / Getty Images

You can’t put a price on happiness, but the cost of outrage is easy enough to tally. The Republican Party’s 16-day temper tantrum over Obamacare shuttered large parts of the U.S. government and left 800,000 civil servants sitting at home without pay. In the Washington area alone, that translated to $217 million a day in lost wages. More than $3 billion of direct government spending on services went by the wayside. Analysts predict the knock-on effects will shave about 0.5 per cent off the country’s fourth-quarter GDP growth—a total hit in the $20-billion to $24-billion range. And Republicans are now plumbing historic depths in the opinion polls, with 70 per cent of Americans saying they disapprove of how Republican legislators have been doing their jobs.

The Senate-brokered deal ending the dispute made no changes whatsoever to President Barack Obama’s signature health care law. Sen. John McCain, the former Republican presidential nominee, described the failed quest to derail government insurance as a “fool’s errand.” Mitch McConnell, the party’s leader in the Senate, vowed that a shutdown will never happen again on his watch. But those who drove the strategy—Washington’s new breed of populist “Tea Party” agitators—made no apologies. “The American people rose up and spoke with an overwhelming voice,” said Texas Sen. Ted Cruz, declaring the rout a “remarkable” victory. “This battle will continue.”

Obama campaigned for re-election on his health care plan, and handily won both the popular vote and the electoral college. The Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of the law. And while polls suggest only 46 per cent of Americans support the changes he’s making, Obamacare is still significantly more popular than the Republicans (32 per cent) or its Tea Party faction (26 per cent.)

So, why was an entire country held hostage as a handful of U.S. representatives and senators sought to refight a war that had already been lost? Because the politics of anger work. In an age where almost half of eligible voters can’t even be bothered to cast a ballot, stoking rage has become one of the most dependable ways of cutting through the apathy. Aggrieved people turn up at rallies. They give their time and their money. (A recent University of Michigan study found voters are three times as likely to click through on an angry political web ad, as an informative or neutral one.) They flock to news outlets and blogs that feed their indignation. And they turn out in greater numbers on Election Day.

The Tea Party may never have broad appeal, but in its brief history, it’s been remarkably successful at harnessing the angry grassroots to overthrow mainstream Republican candidates, and push the party ever further to the right. In the bruising fight for the 2012 presidential nomination, Mitt Romney ended up twisting himself from a Massachusetts moderate into the most conservative candidate in a generation in order to blunt their challenge. And three of the Republican front runners for 2016—Cruz, and his fellow senators Marco Rubio and Rand Paul—proudly and loudly lay claim to the Tea Party banner.

While their extreme obsessions with guns, God and gays don’t resonate that strongly on this side of the border, Canadian politicians have taken notice of the gains that can be made by wielding wedge issues to energize voters. Rob Ford rode resentment against downtown “elites” all the way to the mayor’s office in Toronto, and his insistence on suburban subways may keep him there, despite his shambolic record and personal life. The current debate in Quebec over the proposed charter of values plays on both voters’ better and baser impulses—protecting the rights of women on one hand, while curtailing those of religious minorities on the other. And in Ottawa, Stephen Harper’s Tories continue to pursue a “tough on crime” agenda—promising to keep murderers behind bars until the end of their lives in the recent Throne Speech—in the face of a national crime rate that has fallen to its lowest level in four decades.

It isn’t hard to deduce the kind of voter that rage and recriminations play best with: white, male and older. Mitt Romney won 48.1 per cent of the overall vote in 2012, but enjoyed seven per cent more support among men than Obama. And while whites make up about 70 per cent of the U.S. electorate, 88 per cent of Romney’s ballots were cast by Caucasians. Almost 60 per cent of supporters of the Tea Party, which started as a protest against government bailouts in 2009, are men. And that outrage over the state of the American economy continues to be its fuel. (The pattern of U.S. job losses that followed the 2008 financial market meltdown was so striking that economists dubbed it a “man-cession,” with males suffering 80 per cent of the layoffs.)

In the long run, America’s changing demographics will mute such appeals. In 2012, more than half the children born in the U.S. were classified as members of a visible minority. And the U.S. Census Bureau estimates that within three decades whites will no longer be in the majority.

But for now, they work just fine with the millions who have been unable, or unwilling, to adapt to the rapidly changing times. Forget soccer moms and NASCAR dads. It’s all about Angry White Men.

As he criss-crossed the United States seeking out Tea Partiers, men’s rights groups, white supremacists and the professionally angry over the last few years, Michael Kimmel hit upon an effective way to introduce himself. “I’m your worst nightmare,” he would say. “I’m a liberal New York Jewish sociologist, and I live in the bluest city in the bluest state in the country.”

The upfront approach tended to get the conversation rolling right away. And the Stony Brook University professor, a noted authority on male identity, discovered a certain amount of empathy for their plight. “There’s a tremendous sense of something being lost or slipping away,” he says. “These are globalization’s losers. They had union jobs or small businesses that have disappeared. Their wives are working. Their kids talk back to them, and the government ignores them.”

Still, his new book, Angry White Men, makes it clear that he believes their rage is either wholly inappropriate, or entirely misdirected. Brought up in a culture where their race and gender conferred certain advantages, some older, white American males might feel they have been left behind by a rapidly changing society, but that doesn’t justify lashing out at women and minorities. “I think the anger is real, but it’s not true,” says Kimmel, who suggests that the Rush Limbaughs of the world fuel a sense of “aggrieved entitlement” and keep it channelled in a certain direction. “These guys spend a lot of time yelling at the wrong enemies.”

After all, the vast majority of men have quietly adapted to the last few decades of change at home, in the workplace, and the public sphere, he notes. And those who haven’t are more like dinosaurs than America’s founding patriots. “They don’t have the skill set—emotionally, psychologically, or socially—to cope,” he says. “They’ve staked their claim in the downwardly mobile marketplace.”

His conclusions are similar to those that Charles Murray, the controversial author of The Bell Curve, arrived at from the other end of the political spectrum. In his 2012 work Coming Apart: The State of White America, 1960-2010, the conservative scholar argued that white, blue-collar Americans have seriously lost their way in the last few decades. Faced with stagnating or declining incomes, what used to be the lower middle class has slid steadily downwards. And as joblessness has skyrocketed so has crime, illegitimate births, and disability rates. “Our nation is coming apart at the seams—not ethnic seams, but the seams of class,” Murray wrote. Although he differs in where to pin the blame. According to Murray, much of the fault lies with an educated and liberal elite, who continue to live their lives according to American values, but refuse to hold everyone else to a similar standard.

Of course when it comes to anger, no one class, or part of the political spectrum, holds a monopoly. The focus on Angry White Men tends to obscure a more generalized societal rise in rage. Ryan Martin, a psychology professor at the University of Wisconsin at Green Bay, who studies anger, theorizes that the rise of the Internet has created a far more aggressive culture. People now immerse themselves in an online world where their opinions or prejudices are constantly validated, and rarely if ever intellectually challenged. “These days it’s much easier to only listen to people who think exactly the way you do,” says Martin. At the same time, the physical distance, anonymity and click-and-send immediacy offered by the web has made lashing out virtually consequence-free. “I’m not sure there’s necessarily more anger than there used to be about politics, but it’s certainly more visible.”

The same holds true for Canada. Although the tradition of “big tent” political parties, and the presence of more than two options on the national political scene, serves to keep the debate slightly more civil. Ipsos pollster Darrell Bricker says the dog-whistle political issues like abortion, religion and guns that are so divisive—and effective in whipping up anger—in the U.S., don’t really work in this country. And he notes the gender gap in Canadian politics is more about compassionate women, who cluster on the left, than right-leaning, angry men. But Stephen Harper’s relentless focus on the economy, crime and advancing the idea that government should do less, not more, has forged a uniquely Canadian coalition of the dissatisfied—comprised of traditional conservatives in the West, and recent immigrants who have settled in Ontario’s 905 suburbs. And as Bricker and Globe columnist John Ibbitson outlined in their 2013 book, The Big Shift, it has the potential to alter the political landscape. “If these trends persist what you’re going to see is the Conservatives becoming like the Liberals in the last century,” he says: a new, natural governing party.

That’s a stark contrast to the seemingly dismal prospects for Republicans. After the drubbing Romney took in 2012, there was a nascent movement to remake the party with an eye on America’s changing 21st-century demographics. “We’re not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term,” as South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham succinctly put it to the Washington Post. But strangely, the abject failure of the government shutdown strategy seems to have made those outreach efforts even harder. Ultra-conservative action groups like the Heritage Foundation and Americans for Prosperity, which pumped hundreds of millions into the battle to defund Obamacare, now appear poised to turn their guns against the moderates who backed the compromise end to the standoff. And the Tea Partiers, who already count more than half of the 231-strong Republican caucus in the House as sympathizers, have been emboldened, rather than chastened.

“This whole thing hasn’t been popular with Americans for a while, but these folks aren’t quitters,” says Theda Skocpol, a professor of government and sociology at Harvard University. “And they don’t think they’ve been beaten yet.” The co-author of a new book on the Tea Party, Skocpol says the grassroots movement is now being leveraged by powerful interests in the pursuit of long-standing conservative policy goals like cutting taxes, blocking environmental regulations, and the dismantling of Medicare and Social Security. And as long as Obama remains in office, the anger that fuels the base will remain red hot. “He’s a perfect storm,” she says. “He symbolizes every one of the changes that Tea Partiers fear.”

In his book, Michael Kimmel argues that American masculinity is at the end of an era. The Angry White Male, he says, has reached a tipping point. “The truth is that we’ve never had more gender, racial and sexual equality than we do right now.” The trend line is undeniable and unstoppable, he says.

But how long it might take until the dinosaurs he writes about are truly extinct is hard to say. At this point the front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination is Hillary Clinton. Would there be any less rage in America over a female president than a black one? “That’s a really good question,” says Kimmel.


Angry white men

  1. There is no future for uneducated white males. It’s the Knowledge age.

    The cranky ole white guys have finally realized that…and have a bad case of Future Shock.

    I’ve said this for years.

    • Actually you forget it is also the fault of the cranky old white girls who drove their husbands into the ground – worked them to death while those old uneducated white women sat at home and made supper for him – they saw it happening and let it – simply because they were happy to take his pay cheque and spend it.

      • How could they have stopped it?

        • This comment was deleted.

          • Men wanted women to stay at home as wife and mother….that is a hard job with no pay and often abuse. So women left in droves.

            You’ll have to live with the results.

            Like the article says…..’misdirected anger’

          • This comment was deleted.

          • You need an education to function in today’s society….blaming women, blacks, gays etc is a waste of time.

          • So far, it’s only the author of the article and you who tried to somehow tie the crises western civilization faces today to women, blacks or gays. As for education, it’s great – provided, it’s actually an education, not brainwashing. And having a piece of paper from a university is neither the only, nor particularly reliable indicator of having acquired one. An acquaintance of mine is an administrator at local community college. According to him, significant portion of their students are university graduates coming to learn something actually useful and become employable.

          • Since it’s the article that we’re discussing…..you need to focus.

            It doesn’t matter what you believe politically….if you don’t have a diploma or a degree…..you don’t have a job.

            And all the anger in the world isn’t going to change that.

          • It’s a bit tricky to focus on a foggy hotchpotch of half-baked ideas. The author mixes together white supremacists, men’s rights groups and Tea Party adherents. Quite disparate groups. Of those, only Tea Party has a significant political clout, which to some extent seems to be the main topic of the article, to the extent some consistent guiding idea is discernible.
            The 6 to 4 disproportion between male and female supporters of Tea Party is quite underwhelming in comparison to close to 100% of blacks and about 75% of hispanics – not known for being the demographic groups at the forefront of economic and technological advancement of the society in whole – who voted for President Obama.
            According to statistics that I was able to find, including sources no friendlier to Tea Party than the author of the article above, supporters of the movement tend to rank above average in terms of education, employment rate (many self-employed) and economic status. They’re not the super rich but they’re not the underprivileged masses either.

            I wonder if you bothered to check and compare the unemployment rates, not to mention underemployment, between the older white males and the twenty something to early thirties anybody, including university graduates. And let’s not forget that great many of those who are lucky enough to have a job, the job they have is as hi-tech as flipping burgers.

            Regarding the angry part, as the Occupy movement – among other observable signs – showed, the state of mind of quite a few members of quite a few non-old-white-male demographics is not exactly what one would call a sunny disposition.
            You might not like the facts, even call them angry, but they remain facts.

          • No it’s not. ‘Angry white men’ [otherwise known as the Repub party] is a commonplace phrase in the US….in Canada we call ’em ‘cranky ole white guys’….and have done so since Reform came along.

            The world has changed….it is no longer the 50s….and white men, who were dominant back then are having a hard time coping with today.

            Maybe you haven’t heard about it, but it’s a major concern in the world.

            50% of today’s jobs will be gone in 20 years….so the situation is only going to get worse.

          • White men who were dominant in the 50s are mostly dead.
            In 20 years, old men of today, white or not, will be dead or retired.
            While I don’t the future of those still alive to be particularly rosy, I don’t see any indication that the future of any other demographics, except for a relatively narrow ruling majority, whoever they might be – and I am pretty sure, it’s not going to be young non-white contended women – will be significantly rosier.

          • Really? I’m sure they’ll be glad to know that. LOL The youngest boomers are 48.

            The future will be quite rosy…..but only for the educated….no matter their colour, gender or anything else.

          • Most everything good, true and beautiful we treasure as European-Canadians and Americans is all down to the creativity, genius and labour of the White men you seem to delight in mocking.

            A bit of gratitude would go a long way in helping your attitude.

          • Mmm no, we got our knowledge from the Arabs, the Chinese, the Indians and built on it.

            Goodness, where did you get your brain washed??

          • Yes, I figured you’d be incapable of acknowledging the wonderful things White European men, our men, have done as that would require humility.

          • Why on earth am I supposed to be humble?? Is that some new value of Canadian culture?

            What’s wrong with you??

          • You’re not supposed to be anything. You’re perfectly free to be arrogant.
            What Laura said is that it is unrealistic to expect from an unwise person to understand – not to agree with, just merely understand – a concept that requires certain degree of wisdom. And the wise, by the virtue of being wise, cannot be not humble.
            The very beginning of wisdom is to realize the limits of one’s scope of knowledge. The more one actually knows, the more he or she understands the limits.
            And while I wouldn’t presume to tell you what to do or not do, there is no need for you to share with us your involuntary outbreak.
            I’ll spell your LOL out for you.

          • You ever going to figure out the actual topic here?

          • Are you?
            What’s got you personal lack of wisdom to do with angry white males in States?

          • The topic is angry white males….in the US and Canada.

            Neither I nor feminism are the topic….as I’ve said from the beginning.

          • Where from, how and why got feminism in the mix?

          • The minor problems with those assertions is that the Arabs got their knowledge from the Greeks (to a great extent via Jews whom they’ve employed at their rulers’ courts), China was largely isolated during Europa’s ascent to world significance, and if the Indians discovered gravity, electricity or computers, they’ve kept it to themselves, so the whities had to arrive at all those scientific discoveries and technological inventions independently on their own.

          • Stars have Arabic names for a reason…..and the Golden Age of Islam was a great advance for the world

            When Rome fell, and Europe was in the Dark Ages….the Arabs helped us out. We thanked them with multiple crusading.

            Until about 1500 CE China had the largest GDP in the world. Then they got a couple of crappy emperors and things went south in a hurry. However they appear to be back. They have the longest running civilization on the planet….5000 years….they had a strict civil service examination while Europeans were running around in bearskins.

            The Indus Valley civilization is one of the first in the world. It developed metallurgy and steelmaking
            Computers, steam, electricity, oil wells, movable type printing….. all have a long history….whether you’ve heard of it or not.

            No, the ‘whities’ did not have to develop all those things on their own. The knowledge was passed on, sold and even stolen across Eurasia.

          • The Golden Age of Islam lasted about 300 years. Since then … It is true that Europe benefited from the Arabs having preserved the knowledge of the Greeks and Romans and it is true that, back then, they made a decent contribution of their own, especially in the area of astronomy and chemistry. (As for crusades, when piracy and slave capturing raids cripple your economy, trying to regain areas that the perpetrators conquered by sword a century or two ago might seem not just a good, but a fairly justifiable idea by even today’s ethical and legal standards. The standards of the times were slightly different – it had to do mostly with warfare capabilities.)
            If you admire the Rockefellers for successfully living for about a century now off the wealth their great- great- created, it’s your choice. I like the Steve Jobs kind of guys better – you know, those who start with more or less nothing and create and build something new. So while I have a great respect for the builders of China, for their successors who sat on that heritage for some 3 or 4 thousand years without contributing anything significantly new, not so much. I consider the Europeans, getting from the bearskins you mentioned to the world of your beloved robots in less than three quarters of one millennium, slightly more impressive.
            As for Indians, their ancient civilization, too, was impressive. That in a country with such a potential for riches and prosperity, people were dying of mass starvation as recently as a few decades ago, the caste system is surviving to this day and the fairly pervasive phenomenon of dowry related killing of women not so much.
            But if you know of any materials proving that Watt smuggled the plans for steam engine from China, that Gregor swiped his work on genetics from some Indian passerby, or that the Wright brothers did some industrial spying in Egypt just a couple of months before taking off, I’d sure be interested to include them to my continuing education readings. Got a link?
            Dear Emily, I was aware that in a graduate from one or another of the fluffy university programs, one’s expectations need to be realistic, i.e. very moderate. But your post above really scared me. If a person with not one but two pieces of paper from a university can display such utter inability to organize the tidbits of information acquired while spending time at the university into any meaningful, logically coherent message, that’s really, really worrisome.
            As for your racism and sexism – white men are not any better nor worse than anybody else. Neither are they any smarter or dumber. As for their leapfrogging over anybody else during the last half millennia, they were the beneficiaries of judeo-christian and greco-roman heritage that lead to allowing individuals sufficient extent of personal freedom to make it possible to not only discover and invent but also practically implement and utilize on a gradually growing and accelerating scale. It was a matter of culture, not race.
            Now, I am perfectly aware that, right now, this is going way over your head. But as you grow up, maybe some day you’ll suddenly manage mentally process one single and simple issue based on its own merit, instead of seeing it through the glasses tainted by your racist and sexist prejudices. And then another one. And another one …
            Admittedly, I don’t expect it any time soon and it would be a long and difficult journey. But hope dies the last.
            Best of luck.

          • Wow, you’re an idiot of the first order. The fact that Arabs invented algebra, the Chinese gun powder, etc, etc. does not mean that “old white men” contributed nothing to civilization–which seems to be the implication of your refusal to acknowledge anything positive coming from a certain generation of Canadian males. You condemn xenophobia, misogyny and essentialism of all manner (which is fine) and then you proceed to exhibit it.

          • Well, I suppose we need to figure out how to genetically prevent humans from being born with less than a stellar ability for academic pursuits.
            How will that happen Emilyone; and who is to say that the world of an erudite is a better world. Other than for those business people who require the intellect that will design and develop profit, which seems to be the ultimate goal these days.
            Education certainly has its place; but technology will not save the world from itself, as technology and intellect is part of the reason the world is in the fix it is in. Have a goodday Emilyone.

          • Or maybe we could fix the educational system so that people learn more quickly and easily…..otherwise you’re saying that humans have limited mental capacity and have reached their limit.

            The world isn’t in a ‘fix’…..humans are better off now than we’ve ever been….and going back to living a 20 year life in a damp cave while avoiding technology and intellect is insanity

          • I do believe the educational system could use an adjustment but that’s not what I’m getting at.
            I just can’t find the mindset that says we are all capable of great things, we can all play sports to some degree, even if we do not enjoy but we all can’t be exceptional, like the multi-million dollar players. I can fix your scrape or cut but I can’t do surgery.
            Having administered tests to students I’ve seen how frustrated some get by handling small items opposed to larger items. You shouldn’t be a dentist or work with electronics if handling small items frustrates you. Were all humans but not all Einsteins, Picasso, Leonardo Da Vinci and such. Some are just here and that should be acceptable.

          • You know, at one time, even learning basic literacy was considered beyond most people. And basic arithmetic was considered the work of the Devil.

            Along the way, women couldn’t learn anything but language and embroidery or it damaged their minds. And men apparently were zapped into gayness if they learned anything at all.

            Our grandparents often ended education at grade 5, parents at high school…with or without graduating.

            But nowadays a BA is entry level….and people will adjust. Same as always.

            No, being ‘just here’ is NOT acceptable. Plants are ‘just here’.

          • entry level for what???? office workers make piss all and your directing people towards this?

          • The most academic of my friends suggested to me, the problem with intelligent people is they can limit themselves, tunnel vision will stop you in your mental tracks.

          • Agreed, as it is a society culture as a whole issue. It spans all races, both sexes and all cultures.

            People are too taxed, over worked to support Ottawa children that having a prosperous family is not possible. If the average person wants a family, its poverty and work harder longer as tax slave.

            Couples should argue about who is on top, not the bills and taxes.

            Not really worth the effort and with the domestic population growth being very negative, about 30% negative, loose immigration is Ottawas answer.

            Reality is, modern statism society has no room for marriage any more, not economically, not emotionally and not physically.

          • shut up I guarantee I make more than you with my wrenches and hammer. what about all the people with school debt and no job??????????????? your fn greasy with this school promotion shit.

          • what’s the matter mossonrocks? Your mom not cuddle you enough and now your sorry excuse of an existance is her fault. Grow up kid. Your age is not evident, your childishness is.

          • This comment was deleted.

          • I’m not a feminist….and don’t call me sista.

          • Men too, come home to a messy house, tired from work abuse the woman thinks the man is full of energy and argues with him. Many women still in PJs wonder why the husband no longer finds her attractive.

            Goes both ways, and why marriage should only be considered for those very few couples that have a bidirectional fantastic bond. If you are not close friends with very similar values, its cheaper and emotionally better to buy sex. No marriage survives if it is based on sexual lust as it will fall apart before the first one is born.

            I have been married twice. First time was a disaster and I have no regrets in getting a divorce. I was in hind sight dumb to marry her. Second wife? Lover her like crazy, were friends, then lovers and both agreed, NO KIDS. Too busy paying taxes to support Ottawa kids, we opted out. I did help her raise the one she had but after that, empty next rocks!

          • You are the one copping out. Try taking responsibility for yourself instead of blaming your wife.

          • This whole issue is kind of silly because at the time the social mores were such that married women did not work. My aunt who recently passed away at the age of 95 was the only young woman in her pharmacy course at the University of Alberta in the mid 1930’s. She was a very intelligent woman, ahead of her time and yet, once she married, she did not work. My mother who is 86 lived on a farm in rural Alberta as a youngster and attended a one room school house. She was the only one of 6 children to attend high school and board in town. She did that because her mother had been a school teacher and encouraged it. My mother did one year of education at U of A to become a teacher and taught for one year, then quit because she got married and they had children. She went back to teaching when number 6 of 9 went to school and they desperately needed the money. My mother went on to get her degree at night school and summer school because it paid so much better and my parents were in dire need of more cash. My dad was a farmer and it supplied food but almost no pay. At the time, most women had no education and really no skills that would pay decently outside the home. Also, there also was no real childcare available unless you had family to babysit or your kids were school age. My mom found a woman who had six kids of her own. She took 3 of us in for $7.00 per day.
            I want to say, I really enjoy your touching story of your parents. Mine are both alive too. They still live on their own and are independent. It is good to hear when people are doing well.

          • This comment was deleted.

          • This comment was deleted.

        • Don’t get married and DON’T have kids. Canada is well below 1.5 kids per family and dropping, anything less than 2 is domestic population shrinking. Its why immigration is loose as a goose.

          Single condos are the hottest selling real-estate in Canada and growing rapidly in market share as people now are increasing preferring to live alone. More and more are saying no to marriage slavery be they men or women.

          • THAT would have stopped men being ‘angry’??

      • Actually, if you believe in taking personal responsibility, as I do, you would know better than to point the finger elsewhere.

        Angry people make the choice to be angry. It is no one’s responsibility but their own.

        But that was a nice try to make this their wives’ fault. Exposed your real agenda.

    • So you are saying there is a future for uneducated minority males?

      • No, there is no future for the uneducated no matter what their colour….but it used to be that guys waited till 16, dropped out, went to work in a factory and were set for life…..and that way of life is gone for good.

        Most factory workers were white because it was primarily a white society.

        • yup – wait for the next 5-10 years when we see things like automated cars & trucks (imagine no more truck or taxi drivers), and IT/automation working its way further into basic service industries like retail and restaurants.

          Big changes already underway, and bigger ones to come – how will these millions educate themselves out of that mess!?

          • Well that’s been the question for years….only thing I’ve ever seen on it is an episode of DS9 where unemployed people are put in prison camps. It could come to that…..but I was hoping for a better solution.

          • In principle, it could.
            But as long as Americans are able to keep their guns, imposition of centralized socialism of either the Soviet or Nazi variety would seem rather difficult.
            Dissolution of the country seems more likely.
            But nobody has a reliably functioning crystal ball, really.

          • Well in the UK there are hundreds of thousands of them on benefits…..which isn’t a solution either. But there’s no work for them

          • Thanks for reminding me that we’re discussing the article above and I shouldn’t lose my focus.

          • Did you? Well that would make you like most posters on here.

          • Really? Your vision of the nation’s economic future comes from Star Trek? Why am I not surprised. I suppose you’d support Captain Kirk for PM? Maybe that’s why you’re such a Trudeau fan?

          • Hey! Mornin’ Rick…..!

            Haven’t seen you in quite awhile. How ARE things on Ferenginar these days?

            Lose any more Senators?

          • Beware of automation – nothing can go wrong, go wrong, go wrong …..


        • Man you must be old – even I do not remember those days

          • If you’re that unobservant why are you commenting at all?

    • There is a great future for males of any race of ethnic background in skilled trades. Knowledge is great – just I am not sure whether the proportion between knowledge of physics, chemistry or biology and knowledge about sociology or gender theories offered by today’s universities bodes well for our future.

      • No, there is not. And making yourself into a robot won’t improve things.

        • Your snobbish under-informed disdain for skilled trades, and the amount of actual real world knowledge it encompasses nowadays, is not surprising. People knowledgeable about labour force demographics, both current situation and future trends, tend to see things differently from you.

          • Focus…..there are no jobs for the uneducated….and ranting nonsense at me won’t change that. You just become the ‘angry white man’ of the article.

          • If you think there are no jobs in the skilled trades, then you are uneducated.
            “For the last three years, according to ManpowerGroup, the hardest segment of the workforce for employers to staff with skilled talent hasn’t been registered nurses or engineers or even web developers. It’s been the skilled trades”

          • Dream on.

          • Nikos2121 is right. The future is in Skilled Trades. Research. You are right in the sense that these Skilled Trades jobs need a diploma or degree now. These are not uneducated jobs. They are highly specialized and take a lot of skill and knowledge.

          • Depends on what you call a skilled trade I suppose…..if you mean technicians and technologists…then they will be the working class of the future. The lowest level jobs.

            Welders, plumbers, carpenters etc…..no.

          • Welders, plumbers, and carpenters all need an apprenticeship, which requires schooling. If we did not plumbers, who would fix your bathroom problems. You would be pretty stuck.

          • Homes are now being made by robots….and come with complete plumbing systems.

          • Oh my goodness, you really are out at sea.

            A robot is going to fix your plumbing… build or refurbish your home … or do anything with skilled trades?


          • You aren’t very up-to-date areya…..

            Robots have been doing all those things for some time now

          • Yes, sure. I’m certain you’ve tried to convince the nice doctor you see everyday, that you’re really a replicant… with memory implants of your maker’s niece….

          • Emily, just stop it. You try to sound intelligent but posts like this just show you to be a typical Grade-A flame bait.

          • There is nothing flame-bait about talking robots. What IS your problem anyway?

          • So if your plumbing breaks, what then? Scrap the home & get another robot-built model? I suppose you trade your car every time it needs an oil change, too.

          • Not in the real world, dear.

          • Robots aren’t going to build homes, moron.

          • Emily has a very narrow definition of “educated”. And she thinks that somehow society will run itself if everyone gets advanced degrees.

          • Leaving aside that you have no way of knowing what my gender, race or emotional state of mind is, calling a statement “nonsense” without providing any factual counter argument in advocating for knowledge doesn’t betray much understanding of the advocated phenomenon.

          • You want an argument in favour of knowledge?? LOLOL

          • Are you really that obtuse, Emily? The guy is saying there are lots of jobs in the skilled trades and you babble on as if skilled tradesmen aren’t “educated”. Most of your tirades at least have a basis in reality. This one doesn’t.

          • If you want an education go to university

            If all you want is a job skill….go to trade school

          • And I thought we were talking about employability, to whom the future belongs, and who is going to be left behind.
            As for education, I take the high school dropouts brother Wrights over the professors who scientifically “proved” that machines heavier than air cannot fly, I take Mark Twain over all the Deans of English studies at Harvard in his time combined, every day of the week.
            Education is a great thing. Just that a university was never the only way to acquire it, and it is less and less a way today.
            Of course, if somebody goes to university with the clear idea of becoming a doctor, an engineer, or even just a lawyer, it’s a good idea. For the considerable portion of young people today who go to university for the sake of having been there, without a clue what they actually want – and will be able – to do for a living, it’s very often just a costly waste of time and money.

          • Twain and the Wright brothers were a century ago….that’s actually light years away in knowledge.

            Half our current jobs will be gone within 20 years….so figure that out.

          • As will you?

          • As will I what?

          • Be gone. Focus.

          • Why would I be?

          • Because 20 years is a long time.
            I was just trying to help you focus:
            You said: “Half our current jobs will be gone within 20 years”
            mossonrocks replied: “As will you?”
            you asked: “As will I what?”
            I tried to explain that mossonrocks meant to say “as you will be gone within in 20 years”
            I don’t know nor do I pretend to know what happens within the next 20 years to whom, I was just trying to explain what I believe mossonrocks was trying to tell you.

          • I have.
            And I pity today’s and near future’s university graduates who will face that future equipped by the current educational system with less factual knowledge and less understanding of principles at work in the real world than their grand- and great-parents possessed upon graduating from high school.

          • Yeah, that’s why we’re not inventing anything new, or exploring space or curing diseases eh?

            Our great grand, and grand parents understood nothing of this.

          • Well, what diseases have been cured recently? Exploring space? The space shuttles have been deactivated, no one’s been to moon in more than forty years… as for new inventions? What are these plethora of new inventions? The Internet was created in 1969; the first cellular telephone was released forty years ago; the car, the phonograph, the telephone, telegraph, these all came in the nineteenth century. Even the electronic computer comes from the 1970s.

            So much for `education’ Emily.

          • Obviously, I don’t have a way of knowing what your age and education level is, but your answer is just what I would expect from a victim of what today in the western world passes for educational system. You obviously have no clue about how long ago most of the inventions that define today’s world have been made – even if it took some time for the industrial infrastructure to catch up to the point where they could be made affordably accessible to the masses. And one doesn’t know whether to laugh or cry over a beneficiary of those inventions being so self-deluded as to consider oneself, based on mere ability to consume those inventions, superior to those inventors.
            Let’s leave it, it doesn’t seem you can come up with more than repeating the mantra and it’s become a bit boring.
            You mentioned several times how important is education.
            I agree. And I most wholeheartedly recommend that you get some.
            Have a nice day.

          • A couple of degrees was basic for me, but learning is a life-long process….and now you can get anything online…so most educated people do.

            I’m not a victim and our education is fine. I’m well aware of when things were invented or even where….but I doubt you are.

            We have new inventions and discoveries all the time….some of which come about by building on the past, and some entirely new.

            A consumer? No. Part of the 21st century world, yes.

            Why you lot here are so far behind the times, I don’t know….but it’s sad for Canada. Maybe Macleans only attracts the working class.

            I won’t be leaving the subject….global developmental analysis is what I do.

          • So, behind the times = working class? There you go showing your outright disdain for anybody who works for a living.

          • Augmenting and/or miniaturizing do not equal “inventing,” dear. Take a good, hard look at passenger airliners. Aside from some upgrades, they’re the same as they were 50 years ago. Same speed, same propulsion, same principles of flight.

          • Emily, the robots will be making a dent in many, many job environments including the white collar, university educated areas. They are already talking about virtual doctors and virtual engineers. Japan has virtual nursing robots. Do you really think your job will be safe with these smarter computers that are not limited just to doing repetitive work? The only really safe jobs will be ones that require a lot of general knowledge, high creativity and human touch as those things cannot be easily replicated by a computer.

          • We have robotic surgery already, yes. Had you read on you’d know that half our jobs will be gone within 20 years,

            Will my job be safe….yes, but thank you for asking. Yes general knowledge will be vital….which is why I’ve been telling people to go to university.

          • I’ve seen many spam bots that can post material that is much more factual and informational than the self-contradicting nonsense generated by EmilyBot.

            Also FYI, she doesn’t have a job. She posts on a blog and calls herself an “economist” because of it.

          • In terms of the trades, there will be a lot of work, in Toronto, at least. All these condominiums built recently will require maintenance and upkeep – in electrical, telecommunications, information technology, and mechanical parts of the industry. It won’t be the same as the glut we have now given the fantastic spurt of construction of the past decade, but it will continue to be steady. As the stock ages, the trades will have to come in more and more to keep a building up to code, and the demographics of the job market will shift to renovations and retrofits.
            At least for now, none of the trades I’ve had come into our building have been using robots for their work, with one exception (scanning company had a toy-sized remote-controlled rolling scanner, but they didn’t end up using it, instead standing on ladders). Actually, that’s a good example – when they had to do x-rays to figure out where to drill, robots would be better to work with than humans. It is still not economically feasible for robots to do the work in that field.

          • If we have a housing crash the wind could be blowing through them in short order too but no, all trade isn’t going to disappear overnight

            After all we still have blacksmiths from the agricultural age.

            Much of the condos were done with software though….planning, maths, drawings….a robot is a computer with arms…..and humans were cheaper than robots.

            Entire houses now are made in factories….with the wiring, plumbing etc already laid in….in future a subdivision will just be an order for say 50 homes, and they’ll be site-delivered and popped together. Couple of days.

            At one time we used to have painters and decorators as an entire trade..apprentice, journeyman, master…and then roller brushes were invented. DIY wallpaper soon followed. Pffft Gone.

            Some people were master plasterers….now we have drywall. It’s all bound to change over time.

          • The predictions and examples of manufactured housing that you describe were around 75 years ago. Nobody wanted to buy them. That holds true today, dear.

          • Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Richard Branson. Some of the most successful people of our time.

            All college drop outs. Universities have generally become a breeding ground for lazy conformists who just want to get their piece of paper and go push buttons somewhere. Real thinkers who want to change the way things are done for the better can’t be bothered with university.

          • Was Bill Gates a century ago, dear?

          • But actually: If you want indoctrination, go to university; if you want education, get a trade.

            `Emily’ should know all about indoctrination.

          • Look that not only is gibberish, attacking me isn’t discussing the topic.

          • Taking your statement as a template for mine: So you’re saying that what you say is gibberish?

            I find you people usually aren’t nearly so self aware or honest.

          • If you can’t talk sensibly on here…..go away. I only answer intelligent posts.

          • Really, why don’t you make some then? But then I guess you’re waiting for your android to come by anytime to fix your toilet.

          • That’s it Glennie….Ciao

          • Well, as they say, don’t let the door hit your no doubt capacious… back.

          • Emily, I thought your bugbear was *people who don’t keep on topic*?

            Yet, here you are posting links in the comments section of an article about putative `angry white men’ … to articles about robot factories.

            You have strange definition of `on-topic’.

            I’ll note parenthetically, nothing about robot plumbers, robot carpenters, robot tilers, robot skilled trades-androids at all there…

            Has your ward been visited by the nice doctor with your prescription yet, Emily?

          • If you want to be silly, talk to yourself….you can’t seem to cope with talking to anyone else.

          • No one is more pompously ridiculous than you, friend.

            I take pride in deflating stuffed shirts, as you can see,

          • Nope, you just waste everybody’s time, and contribute nothing.

            Cranky ole white guy fer shure.

            You’re done now. Ciao.

          • You’ve already said, `Ciao’, there buddy.

            But as Edie Brickell once said, `Ya keep comin’ back.’

          • Oh I’ll be back….just not to you. To someone intelligent….and living in THIS century. LOL

          • Yet here you are back! You’ve had more `farewells’ than the Who…

          • Emily, you’re off your nut. Canada is awash with educated idiots (most of them with BAs who are unemployed and, except in the most menial jobs, unemployable. Meanwhile, we’re importing thousands of skilled tradesmen as immigrants or on temporary work visas.

          • LOL sorry, but they aren’t unemployed….unskilled uneducated people are. Former assembly line workers and so on.

            And we aren’t importing thousands of trade workers either. There is no reason for any of them to come here.

          • Haven’t been to Alberta’s oil fields, have you dear? More Americans work there than in Rhode Island.
            You really are a poser…and a rather stupid one.

          • LOL sexist, racist, ignorant and angry….you’re exactly what this article is about. You and your buddies are also the reason the west is crashing. Sheer arrogance.

            Well, enjoy your race to the bottom. Just remember, you were warned.

          • Your deflection is pathetic for someone so well “educated,” dear.
            Could you tell this graduate of Mount Allison how he is in danger of going anywhere near the bottom?

          • This comment was deleted.

          • I had no idea science and economics had anything to do with feminism….LOL

          • This comment was deleted.

          • You must be another one of these angry old white men….you certainly aren’t either female or educated.

          • This comment was deleted.

          • I have no idea why you are so bitter and confused, and I’m not interested in finding out.

          • This comment was deleted.

        • I wasn’t aware that robots were the backbone of America. Geez, someone forgot to send me the memo.

    • Delusional does not begin to describe you.

      • Again….the uneducated response is anger. Doesn’t solve the problem though.

        • I don’t understand why you keep assuming that everybody else is angry?

          • Did you read the article at all?

          • Could you explain what the content of the article has to do with whether David Smith, myself, or anybody else, is angry?

          • Gosh….the word ‘angry’ appears in the title on my screen.

          • When people presume things that they simply cannot know – this `Emily’ claimed I was `angry and unemployed’ – it is a good bet, indeed, that psychological projection at work.

          • Where did I say that? Follow the thread please

          • EmilyOne RB Glennie
            • 2 hours ago

            Okay…..be angry and unemployed all you want then

          • Yup….explained it there too.

          • No, I think you tried to explain it to your plumber-robot (or something).

      • I’ll say. `Emily’ thinks all the skilled trades are occupied by robots, or something.

    • I guess you didn’t get the memo that the TEA party is more educated than the typical Democrat/low-information voter.

      • LOL yeah we see that on their signs at protests.

        Hey Dubya was a graduate of Yale and Harvard.

        • So?
          Nobody here is arguing that completing university precludes anybody from accomplishments and success.
          All the others are saying that having sacrificed a lot of time and money to get through the university before starting doing something useful is not the only way.

          • I repeat….Dubya was a graduate of Yale and Harvard.

          • I doubt you could gain admission to either.

          • Don’t need to….others outrank them

          • And your chances to attend those would be nil.

          • LOL at 68?

            Hey, your typing speed has improved Anon….however, time to pack it in. Your nurse is looking for you again.

            Shall I tell her about your closet?

          • You’re 68 years old? No wonder you’re so bitter.

          • Your memory loss playing you up? Make a note of it.

          • You appear to have forgotten how to debate, dear. You have nothing beyond empty bluster.

          • Off you go, Jamboy…..I have work to do, and your nurse is closing in.

          • I don’t take orders from mentally ill posers, dear.

          • Dismissed.

          • You really don’t have a grip on your faculties, do you?

          • You’ve been busted again Jamboy/Axelrod/Anon/Observant….so off you go. I’m out of patience and will simply flag any more stalking on your part.

          • Flag away, dear. As long as you keep responding, you’re fair game. It’s gone from high comedy to almost pitiable as you continue to abuse yourself.

          • Ahh thank you for making your motive clear to everyone….I have to be silent or you’ll continue to stalk and try to bully me.

            I doubt anyone here likes threats….so flagging it is.

            Everytime we get a really good topic to debate, the moron contingent shows up…..boring.

          • You haven’t engaged in debate at all. You’re projecting, dear…you try to bully, but fail miserably. Then you play the victim card. It’s time someone taught you a lesson.

          • LOL no I’m not debating ‘angry white men’….you’re illustrating it.


          • You simply can’t escape that lame corner into which you’ve painted yourself, can you?

          • Space 1999 indeed. Snort.

            Until your next disguise….Ciao sweetums.

          • It took you all night to figure that out, dear? Quite a poor performance from someone who quotes from the lamest Trek of all…DS9.

          • Time someone ‘taught me a lesson’??

            Is that a threat?

    • I’m a highly educated ‘white male’ and I find your comments, and the basis of the article hugely bigoted.

      Multiculturalism is genocide – it was never popularly accepted by Canadians – we would have never voted to have our cities overwhelmed with foreigners.

      Toronto and Vancouver are more than 50% immigrants – that’s totally ridiculous.

      Canadians have been literally displaced by foreigners.

  2. The sad fact for some is that the dominance of the male in a modern society is coming to an end. The biological skill set that stood the male so well throughout history, essentially bigger, stronger, more aggressive and unable to get pregnant is no longer enough to assure dominance.
    Today’s modern society is predicated on attributes that to me often seen as the antithesis of traditional male characteristics.
    Remember, the true “majority” in all modern societies are women, and women have been repressed throughout history. Balance is finally rearing its head.
    Most men cope quite well with the redefinition of traditional gender roles. Hopefully, your angry white men and the lowlife politicians who cater to them are like the dinosaurs, they too will eventually die out. My fear is that it will be with a bang and nor a whimper.

    • Selena -while I agree with some of your comments, the fact remains that there will be some serious instability in the society you remember. When that day comes there may very well be a reason to hope and pray that some “angry white men” do their best to save that society when it crumbles – and when it crumbles it will not be some IT geek with glasses who wears an apron on the weekends that brings it back together. It will be some guy with guts and muscles who does it.

      As for the lowlife politicians – I wish people would remember that it is US that puts them where they are – perhaps we are not only low life voters – but idiots as well?

      You closing line is probably pretty accurate – however I honestly believe after living in so many third world countries that it is painful to remember – that it will be insidius and in the end you and all other women will – within two more generations simply be confined to your house unless escorted by a family male member on your outings – all because most are afraid to step up to the plate today for fear of ridicule similar to the article above.

      • Is this satire?

    • The sad likelihood for many, especially women, is that the dominance of the white male in a society of the future might be on a trajectory to be replaced with dominance of the non-white male. To be clear, the white or non-white part is coincidental. It’s the cultural, not racial, shift that’s worrisome.

      • Oooh they’re comin’ for the wimminfolk!! HIde!

        • I suspect the increasing number of European women unfortunate enough to be living too close to certain gradually expanding neighbourhoods, who find themselves forced to dress moderately and cover their hair in order to escape intimidation and even physical attacks, are far less amused. Not to mention the growing number of gang-rape victims.

          • LOL Now it’s Muslims you fear….even though Christians did this for years.

          • I love how the word “Muslim” was not mentioned in the comment from agnostic there, yet this is what you assume.

            I’m sure that says something, but I’ll let you decide what that is…

          • He’s talking about Buddhists ya think? LOL

          • Everybody was doing it for years.
            But if we talk about the present and the future, it’s pretty much only one particular subset of humanity who keeps doing it today and doesn’t seem to plan on stopping any time soon.
            But I find it telling that you find attacks on women funny, as long as the males perpetrating those attacks are not old and what is commonly termed as white (even if they might be just a tad angry).

          • No, it’s not one ‘subset of humanity’….there’s no such thing

            Now stop with the tangents……either discuss the topic or disappear

  3. God bless America and their stupidity

    • Calling somebody stupid tends to tell more about the calling than about the called.

    • God bless the fashionably Liberal and their arrogant ignorance.

  4. This comment was deleted.

    • Many of those on some sort of social assistance are those who are senior citizens. They are also those who fought in the various wars and receive veterans benefits. They are proud citizens of the United States of America who contributed to their country in one way or another!

      • They are certainly NOT the majority – I too served – 5 tours overseas – so you are not telling me something I am not aware of.

        Try to get with the program – and stop cherry picking your little bits here and there – the fact remains my comments are true.

        Your welfare state in the US will actually get worse – simply because the government rapes those who work to give to those who do not.

        It will indeed get worse – far worse and it will also happen at a faster rate – you wait and see.

        Those angry white men are tired of paying for everything and seeing it all pizzed down the tubes on people who do not wish to work. Yeah, lots of them out there. Able to work – but not willing to move to find it.

        • Fortunately for our society in general, angry old white men like you(I’m an old, white man but not angry) will go to meet your imaginary sky fairy soon. And don’t get to wrapped up in your own importance, even amoung your fellow seniors you’re considered a dinosaur.

          • Actually I am probably a lot younger than you as I am still working while you sit and collect for nothing – and I do not truly think I am angry – yet the people here who are entitled to their entitlements do not like what I say.
            I have been close to my maker a few times – but you would not understand that – it is truly a personal experience to have someone attempt to kill you while you are visiting their country because of the Liberals.
            I am simply stating a fact – more than 45% of Americans collect social assistance of some sort. Does anyone honestly think they want to elect someone who would take that away?
            And yes people are tired of working to support the dead wood out there.
            I somehow suspect there is a fair amount of dead wood here as well – which is why the underground cash only society is going to grow in a big way – keep the money in your pocket and out of the hands of dead beats.
            If they want to eat – let them work.
            As the US goes – so goes Canada – and this thread is a perfect example.
            What will the lazy do when there is no more money?
            Should we let them eat cake? LOL

          • Of course they don’t want to elect someone who will take their entitlements away. And the money-sucking red states have nothing to fear by continuing to vote for Republicans.

          • Bravo.
            You managed to formulate an insult and content less platitude.
            I am sure you’re considered a rare sage among your peers.

        • Someone clever once said: “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing…” etc

          • Amazing you guys still believe that kind of hokum…..you’d think there were collapsed democracies all over the place!

            And why the voters should want their own money spent on things THEY want…..well! The mind boggles at the thought!

          • There are, just not collapsed, yet.
            Merely collapsing.

          • No they aren’t. LOL

      • Correct observation. What mossonrocks talks about is the many more of other kind of people on other kinds of social assistance. When the government produces a Spanish language series aimed at overcoming “misguided pride” of people reluctant to sign up for food stamps program, I don’t think there are many US Army war veterans among the successfully recruited.

    • You would be more persuasive if you bothered to cite facts, and use reasoned argument to make your point. Instead you call people names and assert your beliefs as though they are true.

      If America is doomed, in my opinion it is because they have allowed themselves to be ruled by rich corporations who survive by keeping poor people poor so they always have a cheap labour source, and keeping ignorant people ignorant so they actually believe it is the “left” who are attacking their way of life, instead of the rich corporate interests who are laughing all the way to the bank at your ignorance.

      • America is doomed because the leftist educational establishment managed to degrade reasoning skills of significant portion of the population to make them unable to examine problems beyond their superficial appearances.
        Rich corporations are a problem but they’re just the symptom. The cause of the disease is the ever growing government that propels them and undermines their competition by favouritism and over-regulation. While the leftist demagogues use the corporations as the whipping boy in terms of public discourse, it is just to deflect attention from their own malfeasance in actually perpetuating the dominance of the chosen ones in exchange for political campaigns financing, and allows for ever growing expansion of the state under the false pretense of keeping the big biz under control.
        Text book example of the latest round of regulations of the financial sector:
        Under pretense of bringing misbehaviour of the big banks under control, it actually strengthened the position of the few ones considered “too big to fail” while seriously weakening, even destroying, a great number of mid-size and small local banks which were quite healthy and mostly unaffected by the fiscal crisis until the regulations have been imposed on them.

        • Randian tripe.

          • Don’t blame Ayn Rand for that rubbish…Rand Paul maybe….LOL

          • It’s been observed that spontaneous, uncontrollable laugh is one way of coping when confronted with a subject matter beyond one’s comprehension and intellectual processing capacity.
            No worry, it’s a harmless and essentially healthy coping mechanism, and I hope it keeps working for you.

          • I guess that’s what they teach at universities nowadays – labeling is much easier than trying to refute facts.
            The sad reality is, it often works.

        • nope

          • Yep

          • See how much easier that is than ranting about all that nonsense you were ranting about?

            Thanks for sharing your opinion. Next time try to remember it is opinion and not fact.

          • Easier sure, and it might even seem as avoiding waste of time trying to explain an overly complicated topic to an underly receptive mind.
            But as Mark Twain once said – and I loosely paraphrase – at 17, I knew my father was utterly stupid, by 18, I couldn’t believe how much wiser he grew since then.
            You’re no Mark Twain, so even if this haven’t happened to you by the age of 18 (I assume, but of course, I may be mistaken, that you’re older than that), it doesn’t mean that it won’t happen ever.
            There is always the chance that someday for some reason somehow something clicks – and the brain starts working. Instead of just tossing away any idea that doesn’t fit your preconceived notions, it starts churning away on them, starts getting something here, something there, and then some more …
            The worst injury today’s educational system does to young people is that it instills in them self-confidence not as a result of any accomplishments, but as a general attitude. Humble ignorants can learn because they’re aware of the fact of having some limitations. The chance for self-confident ignorants to ever learn anything new is much slimmer.
            But not impossible. Maybe, one day the curse of know-it-all-ness gets broken for you and if my nonsensical ranting might have played some little role as one of the co-triggers facilitating the change, I am happy to have provided it.
            Best of luck.

          • Except you explained nothing other than exposing your own biases and lack of actual knowledge.

            When you base your argument on “leftist” universities somehow in a massive conspiracy to degrade intelligence, you lose your argument.

            But it was cute the way you used all those big words to try to disguise the emptiness of your position.

          • As for leftist universities – degrading intelligence is not a matter of a
            massive conspiracy, it’s simply a function of being leftist.

            As for you – I didn’t expect the click to happen right away.
            But as long as one is alive, there is a chance.
            All the best.

          • Thanks for confirming everything I said about you.

          • Dear young friend (obviously, I don’t know your age, but to be courteous, I prefer the word young to immature):
            There was a time when universities taught how to think, not what to think.
            People thus educated were able to grasp such counter-intuitive concepts as that most people are not simply good or bad, that they’re usually complex human beings, with some strengths and some weaknesses.
            That even bad people can have some useful, constructive ideas, while the most decent and honest people can have ideas that prove themselves harmful and destructive in their unintended consequences (admittedly, the latter is more often the case).
            University attendees were taught not whom and what to like or reject, they were taught that in order to form an opinion, one should gather information, analyze it, evaluate against known facts, subject to logical reasoning, and only then arrive at one’s own conclusions. And be aware that those conclusions are no more than working hypotheses that can be disproved by either newly discovered facts, or possible oversights or reasoning mistakes during above described process.
            This kind of education resulted in much healthier proportion of humble proponents of well thought-through solutions, willing to engage in constructive discussions, to arrogant proponents of rigid simplistic propaganda in society
            Today, young people are not only not taught how to apply the process, they’re mostly not even made aware that such a thing exists. It’s not the fault of those young people, it’s a grave injustice committed against them that this concept is not offered any more. Instead, they’re conditioned to develop Pavlovian reflexive reactions to a list of keywords. Obviously, I talk here about the socially interpretative part of education, not the part concerning itself with experimentally verifiable scientific theory or engineering.
            (An instructive example: One of the keywords considered “bad” is to “consume”. So another participant in this discussion strongly objected to the idea that she is a consumer of past inventions, all while participating on this forum, i.e. consuming not just the thought constructs invented by our – according to her uneducated – ancestors, such as computer technology and computer programming principles, but at the most basic level, electricity.)
            As said before, I don’t expect your click to happen right away, maybe not even any time soon.
            But it might, ultimately. Dum spiro, spero.

          • Shorter version:

            I don’t like what educated people say, so I am going to blame the education system rather than examine my own preconceived notions.

          • I feel pity for people who consider themselves educated without having the faintest idea what that means.

          • Me too!

          • That’s very nice of you.
            Not many people have the capacity when they themselves are suffering to feel for others afflicted with the same condition.

          • I am so glad for you that you are capable of that kind of self reflection.

            Good luck!

      • Sorry, `agnostic’ actually stated facts, meanwhile you have “it is because they have allowed themselves to be ruled by rich corporations who survive by keeping poor people poor so they always have a cheap labour source, and keeping ignorant people ignorant so they actually believe it is the “left” who are attacking their way of life, instead of the rich corporate interests who are laughing all the way to the bank at your ignorance…”

        How long did it take to copy that from some Chomsky tome or another?

        • Nope

          • Nope, it didn’t long? Or did it take very long? Or, when describing yourself, you mistyped: `N’ instead of ‘D’?

          • Nope. I disagree with your opinion, and nope, it is not fact.

            Not that hard…

          • Apparently, anything more than monosyllables are extremely hard for you.

      • Gayle
        In the 1930s, that sort of blather could be found on almost every page of the Daily Worker or the Canadian Tribune. I had no idea that there were still animate puppets capable of regurgitating such slop.

        • It is still around, because it is still true.

          It is not that hard.

          • It is still around because it still rings true to the gullible, the low-info and the too otherwise pre-occcupied to think.

          • Wow. It is so effective when your entire argument is calling me names, that I am now totally convinced!

            Or, you know, not….

          • Could you cite any of those names?
            And quote where I am calling you those names?
            Just rhetorical questions. I know you can’t.

          • Well, to be strictly correct, you are not calling me names. You are calling me gullible and saying I cannot think for myself.

            So I will amend my post:

            Wow, It is so effective when your entire argument is insulting people who do not share your view, that I am now totally convinced!

            Or, you know, not…


          • Much better. At least, and long last, you seem to be slowly grasping the concept that words have some definite meaning on their own, and they need to be stringed together in a particular order to express a statement that renders some resemblance of reality.
            You see, I’ve told you we shouldn’t give up on you too soon.
            But let’s stop here, we don’t want to overwhelm the system.
            God job, way to go.

          • Thanks for admitting I am right.


    • America is doomed but not because of the reason you say. A
      capitalist country that spends Trillions of dollars on Military Warfare and
      cannot Health Insure all of its people is doomed for that reason.

      • Can you elaborate more specifically how your scenario would play out? What will be the stages, how and why one would lead to the other all the way to up to the doom itself?

      • As a percentage of GDP, American military spending is considerably lower than almost any point in the last century, and has been for quite some time.
        People find it very convenient to forget that the Cold War was essentially won on the backs of the American taxpayer. While Americans covered the bulk of the cost of keeping the Soviets from overrunning Europe, Europeans indulged themselves in building social welfare states they never could afford.

  5. Bigoted one-sided superficiality is, sadly, to be expected form the limited minds of what is today on offer as professional journalists. But could you at least spare us outright nonsense? If Tea Party adherents are “obsessed” with something, it’s fiscal sanity, rule of law and limited government, not God and gays. Given their country’s debt and deficit, systemic abuse of executive power and ever expanding governmental intrusion into the minutiae of everyday life, it might be the kind of “obsession” that morbidly obese patients have about losing weight.

  6. Ted Cruz is a Canadian. Just like the war of 1812 Canada brought the USA to it’s knees. We were kind this time and didn’t burn down your White House even though Ted wanted to!

    • Cruz is American….thank goodness

      • Apparently, one commentator on MS-NBC thinks he’s Mexican. That’s why this person called for `Mexican music’ when speaking about Cruz… for a U.S. senator of Irish and Cuban descent.

        Racist anyone?

      • Actually, Cruz is still a Canadian citizen as he was born in Calgary. He may have dual citizenship but as of September, 2013 he has not been able to renounce his Canadian citizenship.

        • His mother is an American….under their rules, that makes him American. There is no requirement to ‘renounce’ anything either here or in the US.

          He wants to run for president.

          • And quite a few Americans aren’t likely to vote for him as long as he has the “taint” of a second citizenship. Think Birther. Even renouncing his Canadian citizenship may not be enough for some.

    • Ted Cruz is a dual citizen and the British fought the War of 1812.

  7. I see extreme behavior (anger) as a good sign. It usually means that those that are angry are scared, because they know they are losing the battle of progress and change. i.e. they feel they are losing control over their own system of beliefs. I see it as the last stage before the inevitable.

    • I think you correctly see it as the last stage before the inevitable.
      Unfortunately, the inevitable doesn’t look particularly enticing for most, and for women and those whose system of beliefs is defined by theoretical progressivism in particular (for different reasons, respectively).

    • I believe you are right. What concerns me is when there are articles about feminism. The comments in the threads that follow tend to contain so much anger vented toward women and all kinds of claims that a great proportion of women are not trustworthy; that they claim false rape; that they are the perpetrators of domestic violence rather than the victims.

      • I understand your concern but if you look at the statistics you will see that this is really rare, even if many assaults are not reported. We have to remember a lot of women do not report assaults either because it is very embarassing. I am a woman and was almost sexually assaulted myself at 10 years old but never reported it because I was too embarassed. A couple of men tried to do the same later, but I learned from the first experience and managed to get myself out of those situations. One of them was a father of five children and a friend of my sisters and I did not report it because I did not want to cause trouble for the mother ! He was an employee of the city I was in and had a drinking problem. I think the problem is bigger than this. It’s really a lack of respect on each side. In some countries women are not even allowed to go outside without a man!

      • Feminism, originally a movement aiming at achieving gender equality, has over time evolved into an ideology justifying and fostering hatred towards men.

        Rape is a heinous crime. False accusation of rape is proportionately heinous. Both happen.

        Domestic violence perpetrated by men against women happens. Domestic violence perpetrated by women against men, and especially children, happens as well. The latter is possibly rarer than the former, but it is by far not as rare as generally assumed and officially recorded.

        Each case should be judged on its own merit. Unfortunately, great many
        people tend to prejudge and blame entire groups of other people. Quite understandably, those at the receiving end of such accusations are not happy being lumped together with perpetrators of disgusting deeds, and some of them fight back with generalized blame and accusations of their own.
        Both is understandable, neither is right.

  8. Harper has been dependent on anger for years. He raises money by claiming the “left” are out to get your guns, the media are picking on him, Elections Canada are picking on him, the judges are picking on him…

    He wants us all to live in fear of mass murder, terrorists, rapists and child molesters.

    • Harper goes along the American ‘war on terror, war on drugs’ belief syndrome.

    • *He wants us all to live in fear of mass murder, terrorists, rapists and child molesters.*

      Because, you know, it’s apparently `bigoted’ to fear terrorists, rapists and child murderers. The Tea Party, though: ahhhhhhhh!

      • Hi. Read my post again, and then try again.


        • Or maybe you could try that?

          • No use trying to reason with a stupid asp, pal

    • Out of interest, Gayle exactly what fear were the Liberals exploiting when they came up with the long gun registry?

      • This comment was deleted.

        • The ad that never aired?

          Got any more dead horses you want to flog?

          • The ad never aired? How come then I’ve seen it on my TV?
            But the question wasn’t whether the ad was aired.
            The question was what fear it intended to exploit by the Liberals.

          • Well no fear actually, since the ad never aired.

          • It was produced. Are you saying that the Liberals produced it just to kill time, with no intention to ever actually use it?
            Well, that would explain a lot (about your way of thinking I mean).

          • What do you think – that Paul Martin and some of his senior advisers sat around and produced the ad?

            See, what happens is political parties hire people to do their ad campaigns. It is THOSE people who produce the ads. It is the party who decides to use it, or, as in this case, not use it.

            In any event, this is all irrelevant because a campaign tactic is hardly the same thing as policy.

            Hope this helps.

          • If you believe that hired people make the decisions about the nature, content and message of political ads, and don’t consult along the way if the product goes in the desired direction, I am not going to try to convince your otherwise.

      • None. The Liberals do not base their policies on fear.

        I have read enough of your posts to know you are smart enough to see the difference in the way the two parties operate. Hopefully you are honest enough to admit it.

        • In this instance, you would be incorrect. Allan Rock devised the long gun registry believing it would curb gun crime and violence. He was afraid that Canadian neighborhoods were descending into American-style war zones and the Liberal government sold the registry as such. Rather than pay me left-handed compliments, if you really believe that the Liberals never base their policies on fear, than offer up a alternative reason for the registry. I found mine doing research into the history of the registry. I wish you good luck. Meanwhile, kindly quit questioning my honesty. If you don’t trust me to be honest then do no reply to me.

          • There is a difference between sound policy that is designed to actually make people safer, and to assist the police in doing their jobs better, and policy that is pandering to the baseless fears of the middle class, as stoked by the conservative party.

            The registry was evaluated by the RCMP in 2010 (you may not have heard of it because the government tried to hide the report). It was found to be cost effective, efficient and an important tool for law enforcement.

            There has been no similiar evaluation or conclusions of Harper’s tough on crime policy – and there will not be. It is expensive, pointless, and only useful to make the CPC base feel better. However, it is popular, so Harper has no qualms about spending billions of tax dollars on it, despite the fact it does not make you one bit safer.

          • If the fears are baseless, why the need to make people safer?
            If an evaluation finds a database that is about 50% incomplete and to a great extent incorrect “cost effective and efficient”, it tells us more about the evaluation than about the database.
            If you don’t believe rapes happen in today’s Canada, don’t tell your feminist friends, you could get hurt.

            If you don’t believe that an incarcerated rapist is likely to commit fewer rapes than one allowed to roam free … well, I am not really sure if there is some remedy for that.

          • Well the difference between the two policies is quite apparent. One is proactive – as in, let us do something about gun violence before the guns get into the hands of the criminals, thereby hopefully preventing victimization, and the other is reactive – as in, let’s wait for someone to be victimized and then punish the offender after the fact.

            Your characterization of the gun registry is simply false. I am not going to defend it based on your misinformation. I prefer to use objective rational analysis – you should try that some time and see how it works for you!

            People who are convicted of rape are not allowed to roam around free, so your basic premise is, yet again, flawed. Try using facts next time.

          • The question wasn’t what is the difference between the policies. The question was why was there a need to make people safer when the fears were baseless.
            If you decided to disagree with the report of the Auditor General on the CFIS and if you think that the reason for the Liberals’ decision to create CFIS II was that the original CFIS worked just fine, well – what to say …
            Rapist who would be released from prison by Liberals sooner than for how long the Conservatives would keep them in would be roaming around free for the difference in time served under the former and the latter.

          • The fear of people using guns is not baseless. The gun registry happened after a guy legally purchased a gun and committed mass murder. Many people were wondering why it was that he was able to have access to such a weapon.

            The fear that we are all going to be victimized by criminals unless we have tougher sentences IS baseless.

            It is not that hard.

            PS – Neither Liberals nor conservatives actually release people from prison. You should try to educate yourself on these things.

          • PS. You are boring me now. I am afraid you will have to play with yourself from now on. I have a feeling you are used to that.


          • The birth of the Canadian long-gun registry began with the federal
            Progressive Conservative Party under Prime Minister Kim Campbell. It was the child of former Conservative Senator Nathan Nurgitz, who wrote then Prime Minister Campbell requesting all guns be registered.


          • thank gawd these `progressive’ Conservatives, `red tories’ and so on – like Campbell and Mulroney – are no longer around to drag the Tories down to two seats.

  9. This is an excellent article….and has certainly brought out ‘angry white men’ to illustrate all it’s points perfectly!

    • By your kind of logic, if an article alleged a conspiracy of university educated women secretly poisoning their male children with lead, any woman finding and voicing any kind of disagreement would be just proving the article’s assertions correct.
      If there were any doubts about your being a university graduate, you’ve just conclusively removed them now.

      • LOL

  10. ho hum, the `angry white men’ meme again. Illustrated by all of… one white man, apparently, with an apparently angered expression.

    `Analysis’, a bunch of trash from beginning to end.

    I love the comparison of apples … not even oranges, but say hand grenades: `Yes, “Obamacare” is unpopular with the American public…” But more popular than the Republicans in Congress!

    Like, I said, trash.

    • It’s pretty undeniable, and even Republicans are well aware of it. Their main demographic is significantly white, older, and male. Their main tactic is to stir up outrage.

      • Yes, and the Republican opponents’ main tactic is never to stir outrage! Never would they do that!

  11. One of the more disgraceful articles produced by anyone at this magazine in some time. Just another ignorant idiot obsessed about race.

    Thank the Lord I don’t pay for this tripe.

    • One can’t speak truth now eh?

      • Who said? This Gatemouth can speak about anything he wants to, no one’s stopping him, or trying to, from publishing such trash.

        • Okay…..be angry and unemployed all you want then

          • Sorry, actually that describes your condition, right?

  12. Schoolyard fight! Schoolyard fight!

    • No, just a lot of angry white men, sexist and racist and trying to bully others back into the 50s.

      • Awww…you poor thing. How much leftist tripe can you regurgitate on a single thread?

  13. Americans are angry all the time ( about politics). Canadians are mostly apathetic. (don’t care if dictatorship governments break up the country, i.e. Que.).

  14. I’m an angry white man. I’m just not angry that the dominance of my racial / sexual category is being gradually diminished. (Who cares? We’re a pretty diverse group, we angry white men, and like as not I’ve got just as much in common with your average serene Chinese Canadian woman.) But I am angry: I’m angry about other stuff, like the appalling state of our public life. Don’t diss angry white men, we’re a force to be reckoned with and we have an excellent track record of success, starting with the Reformation.

    • Well after you read some of these posts, you’ll probably be depressed about Canada….and white men….in general

      • The Internet isn’t a good basis for generalising about people based on their race and sex.

        • It never stopped people like `Emily’!

        • It’s the only way we have to form opinions. Whether you mean questions or opinions online or on paper.

          • What about, you know, talking to people?

          • She’s too busy talking to her robot plumber, apparently.

          • a) not always possible

            b) it’s not magic….people have been talking to people for thousands of years and generalizing about them

          • Here, here Frank!

  15. The Republican party in the USA has lots of angry white women in it. Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachmann seemed pretty angry.

    • Plumping for votes.

    • Ever seen Nancy Pelosi, Maxine Waters, Barbara Boxer, Debbie Wasserman-Schultz?

      • They don’t count `agnostic’; they are, to Jonathan Gatemouth and most of the rest of the rest of the news media, `our’ angry people.

        Their anger is entirely justified you see.

  16. For some odd reason, in a media article, they overlook the single biggest factor the ‘tea party’, or anyone else, becomes famous – the promotion by the media. The media can give these rightwing nutcases some semblance of gravitas, as they have done – but they also had the option of dismissing them as the far-right kooks they generally are from the beginning, as they obviously have not done. Dumbing down in action – emotion and violence for the LCD audience lead the news, leading the children into colorful and exciting places, no matter how trivial, while calm, intelligent, and more adult, discussion gets relegated to the back pages or left out entirely. There are a lot of pretty angry ‘normal people’ out here in central realityland as well, very angry at what is becoming of our country under these rightwing zealots – but not screaming and shouting for media attention, just working to stop them. Press attention for these calm, engaged citizens with some real ideas about how to fix things – more or less zero – the press is owned by the rightwing zealots, and promotes its own and marginalises the rest. The Green Party, for example, with Ms May as its leader, far and away the most intelligent and erudite MP we have, gets mentioned a couple of times a month, if she’s lucky, while the halfwits screaming trivial and brainless partisan insults back and forth like children in question period or elsewhere get daily attention. Fair Vote Canada, working tirelessly with a small budget to bring some fairness to the Cdn electoral system, speaking for probably a lot more people in Canada than these vocal, angry rightwingers behaving like spoiled children, are lucky to get mentioned a couple of times a year. Maude Barlow and the Council of Canadians the same, and many others speaking for average, MOR Cdns. A new far rightwing party starts up – the Alberta Wild Rose – and they get endless media attention and praise (backed of course by the same people who own the media) with their US Republican ideas, while less well funded parties such as the CAP speaking for far more ‘middle of the road’ sane Canadians get zero media attention.

    The Cdn media – creating the narrative, not ‘reporting’ it. What Happened http://www.rudemacedon.ca/what-happened.html .

    • Sorry, pal, but if Lizzy May’s intellect were a swimming pool, you could wade right in and not get yer sneaker laces wet.

      • She’s a lawyer, and studying to be a priest.

  17. An angry white man is usually not much trouble however an angry white mob has never been good for society. I remember when conservative meant frugal not welfare for big business.

    • This is what happens when conservatism (or any political stripe) gets hijacked by big money. Naturally, big money interests get promoted. It’s all very, very ironic that the bailout-hating Tea Party are being funded and manipulated by the group of people who benefited the most from the bailouts.

  18. Concerned parents of boys should be angry. Our boys are literally being removed from any meaningful participation in society and it’s not an accident. Boys are forced to attend boy-unfriendly schools and the result is that they now only comprise 40% of university students.

    The Gurian Institute does an excellent job of explaining this position – Boys and Girls learn differently.

    Fortunately there is a growing men’s movement in Canada that will address the injustices that our boys and young men are confronted with. The group CAFE is now set up in universities across Canada.

    However, it is unfortunate that liberal media outlets like MacLeans is not giving such groups fair and balanced coverage.

    • How is the school system slanted to favour girls? I’m genuinely curious because I actually see more opportunities for active participation rather than the sit still and listen method of the past. I’ve read that boys are more fidgety so should prefer this. In my day, we got in trouble for talking or fidgeting, yet more boys went to university then. Could it just be that more girls have a desire to go to university than boys? Could it be that more boys are attending colleges and apprenticeships? I have two kids recently in the school system (one just graduated from university and the other is still in high school) and I really don’t see how anything is purposefully excluding boys or how that would even be implemented. It doesn’t make any sense.

      • It’s just another excuse for their own lack of effort. When I was growing up, most teachers were female and boys sat still and behaved or got whacked…..and yet they went on to university and good careers.

        • Yet today you call us “old angry white men.” You’re not terribly consistent in your mindset, dear.

          • LOL you aren’t my generation, lambchop.

          • That’s right. You said: “When I was growing up, most teachers were female and boys sat still and
            behaved or got whacked…..and yet they went on to university and good

            That’s my generation dear. Then your kind came along and we see how things are deteriorating.

          • No it isn’t.

            Now then, you’ve been busted….once again….so take a hike Jamboy.

          • You seem to have some real mental issues, little girl. You enjoy being a punching bag while coming back to embarrass yourself for days on end.

          • Soooo obvious Anon.

  19. Well I think this thread has gone as far as it can go……certainly brought out ‘angry white men’ though. A fine illustration of the topic!

    Anyway, I see no reason to listen to personal attacks from the confused on here…..so y’all can talk amongst yourselves from now on. LOL


    • Don’t let the door . . .

    • Promises, promises …

    • This comment was deleted.

      • Doreen….another angry white man.

  20. The Republicans were willing to give Ubama everything he wanted, with the exception of a one-year delay in the individual mandate.

    The totally incompetent debut of the Obamacare website just about guarantees a delay in the individual mandate, so it appears that it was Ubama/Democrats who were the problem.

  21. Wow…nothing biased about that article or especially that photo, eh? /sarc

  22. “… promising to keep murderers behind bars until the end of their lives in the recent Throne Speech”

    What’s wrong with that? They took at least one life. At least one husband, wife, father, mother, son or daughter. How can you argue, beside whether or not a murderer can be “rehabilitated” that they deserve to have a normal life back when the aggrieved family will NEVER have their normal life back?

    I try to take typical liberal conservative-bashing articles in stride, annoyed at their ignorance, but seriously. Using an argument that murderers should not spend the rest of their live in jail?

    Do you not see how ignorant that is? Can you imagine seeing the person who murdered your mother or father in the grocery store, completely free, living a life that your family member did not deserve to lose?

  23. Well, this is one American who has learned a soul deep lesson on this thread alone, just how anti-American Canada is. Thinking readjusted … :(

    • I’m a dual citizen. In my experience, Americans are simply innocently ignorant of Canada, but many Canadians are truly full of hate towards the US and its people. I really saw it at university.

      • Well, I remember when that broad MP said, “Damn Americans! I really hate those bastards!” and everyone said that she was one lone individual.

        I no longer believe that. I think it’s pervasive throughout the entire Canadian political spectrum.

        I’ve learned my lesson: Never say or believe anything good about Canada, the bunch of little French Wannabees.

        • Depends on which part of Canada. The Maritimes are full of great people. Ditto the Prairies. Ontario and BC are nearly as anti-American as Venezuela. Québec is essentially another country…with worse manners than France.

          • Well with the latest Canadian import, namely CGI Federal, I can plainly see why Canada can’t put together an independent economy or a decent military. Fark it. Let the albanians conquer them for all I care.

          • Sure. Why should the US are about who conquers Canada? It is not like the US has any vested interest in who is living due north of them or anything…

            PS – Most Canadians do not hate Americans. Most Canadians hate the tea party movement. From what I have seen most Americans hate it too.

          • The US can Defend against anything at all in the north so it makes no nevermind to us who exists there. Least we know that the Albanians will be openly our enemies instead of Canadians feigning friendship while secretly hating us.

            This thread really got my dander up. Yeah, why should the Tea Party movement be for lower taxes, smaller govt, pro-life, pro-military and all the other things that made this country great. Buncha subversives in your view, huh? In case you missed it, the US military is what gives you bunch of pussies the ability not to have a military to speak of so you can afford to have that godawful nationalized health care system and all the other freaky lefty programs you got. YOU SPEND 500 BILLION *PER YEAR* on a military and see how many less programs you can put together. But no need to when your hateful neighbors can do it for you, huh?

            And where the hell did you get that little bit of propoganda about most Americans hating the Taxed Enough Already Party anyway? You swallow too much lefty trash spewed out by the American media, aka, DNC East.

          • Hey Dean, most countries have a little to much of the ‘our way is best’ hubris, but I think the idea up here is that the goal of less spending is critical for America’s health, but that the ways of going about it seem a bit off in the Tea Party ranks.

            You did balance the budget in the 90s. It’s doable. I hope it happens. I think the divide in Washington is not helpful, the theatrics of the shutdown were not useful.

            Being angry makes sense, but getting stuff done means putting it aside. That’s just kind of useful advice in any situation.

            Things do seem to have gone far sideways there. I feel like the political parties are part of that. And that world is coming here, and I don’t think it’s useful anywhere.

            We don’t hate you, at least not many of us. Many feel superior, but that’s just common Nationalism that’s everywhere. And some feel frightened of how much of America becomes Canada, losing our values. Just as the Tea party is frightened of the values change they see.

            We’re probably not so different. Thanks for posting.

          • “And while polls suggest only 46 per cent of Americans support the
            changes he’s making, Obamacare is still significantly more popular than
            the Republicans (32 per cent) or its Tea Party faction (26 per cent.)”

            Tea party has the support of a whopping 26% of the US electorate. Sure sounds super popular to me.

            As for the rest, yes, I have no issue with you believing whatever you want to believe. What amuses me is how angry you get that I do not agree with you. How the fact that some people on a single thread on a Canadian website make you so angry that you have decided to judge the entire country based on how you feel they have insulted you, and then you turn around and insult us. I am not sure you can see the hypocrisy in that.

            Anyway, I am pretty comfortable in my opinion that the US government absolutely cares who borders them on the north, as well as the south.

            PS. Lots of countries do not have a “military to speak of” and are not waiting for the US to come and save them. If the US intervenes in any conflict between Canada and another country, it will be because it is in the US interest to do so.

          • This dual citizen graduate of a Canadian university who is also a Tea Party supporter recognizes that you are utterly clueless.

          • Well, how can I possibly respond to such an intelligent post. Why use facts and reason and stuff when all you have to be is dual citizen who graduated from a Canadian university.


          • If you can’t determine the point of my post, all I can say is, I rest my case.

          • You are just too super duper smart for me. I concede to the Canadian university educated dual citizen who is able to rest his case on that fact alone.


          • With disparaging Canadian military, I think you took it a step too far.
            You might want to talk with some of your Afghanistan vets who had the chance to see the job our boys were doing and getting done there.
            If you happen to get a chance to do that, I wouldn’t advise to start it with insulting the Canadians.

        • Dean, would judge America and Americans as a whole based on what you could read on the discussion forum of DailyKos or MoveOn.org?
          Canadian left doesn’t hate American any more, or maybe I should say any less, than American left hates America.
          Ordinary Canadians do tend to nurture this mild resentment of the slightly insecure younger brother towards his big shot boisterous big brother but when the going gets tough, reason and self-interest usually prevail – although the self-appointed “elites” are for decades at it to change it.

      • John, you’re correct to a great extent, but please don’t tar all Canadians with that brush. Typically, the American-hating Canadian is an urban, left-leaning liberal possessed of a deluded superiority complex. There are plenty of other Canadians with a much more balanced, sane and fair view of things.

        • I realize that. As I mentioned, I’m a dual citizen and a graduate of a Canadian university. Half my family and many of my friends are in Canada.

    • Umm, Dean, you’re going to ascribe the views of the Macleans comment board trolls to all of Canada? You really ought to give your head a shake. That’s a bit like me going to Rush Limbaugh’s website and claiming that it represents the official views of all Americans.

  24. I guess liberals failed to notice that:

    1) While Obama won his election so too did Congressional Republicans. Many ran on a platform to defund/delay Obamacare so they were only exercising their mandate given to them by voters.

    2) While the initial budget offered by the House Republicans included defunding Obamacare (which was rejected) the second offering included delaying Obamacare for a year (which was also rejected).

    Considering the severe technical problems the Obamacare website is experiencing, and the probable delay for citizens as a result, the Republican House offer to delay was a reasonable offer. If the Government was shut down for 16 days, and Obama and the Senate Democrats rejected a reasonable offer to delay Obama on the second day (a delay which will occur anyway), than Obama and the Senate Democrats are responsible for the extending the duration of the shutdown.

    Liberals want to “poison the well” by blaming White men who were correct while they were wrong regarding the Government shutdown. They want to paint as “radicals” those who seek traditional American solutions to our problems. If liberals reject those traditional American solutions are they not also rejecting America?

    • Your name should show the other ‘k’ in it.

      • OK… I see how you roll; you cannot dispute my facts so you counter with a response which is itself irrational and bigoted. Playing the race card when there has been no reference to race tells me you are a dishonest person who will tell lies to win an argument.

  25. What everybody wants to ignore is the hard fact that the “angry white male” is the guy whose opinions and beliefs are belittled and downplayed, but always seems to be the guy who gets handed the tab at the end of the day.
    If we’re angry, it’s because we are routinely and deliberately marginalized politically while being expected to foot the bill for the seemingly inexorable expansion of the nanny state that we are often philosophically opposed to.
    News flash, here kids. if we are to be expected to pay disproportionately for governmental largesse, then maybe we should get an equally proportionate say in how such funds are raised and spent.

    • The hard fact is…..Obama won the election. Majority rules.

      • You have no understanding of the US Constitution. “Majority rules” is not a key concept. Protecting minority opinions and rights are.

        • BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA The founding fathers were slave owners.

          • It was, after all, 1776 there girlie. It behooves me to remind you that not only was it largely Christian white males that led the fight against slavery, many of the Founding Fathers- notably Jefferson- fully understood the moral quandary of slave ownership, but also had a complete grasp on the value of incrementalism when it came to actually starting America on the road to ending slavery.
            The Civil War, while ostensibly about slavery, was even more so about state’s rights as written into the Constitution.
            But…I wouldn’t expect you to understand all that.

          • ‘Girlie’…..? I was expecting ‘little lady’…….LOL

            You old coots are hilarious.

            I’m sure they all felt wretched about it…but it took close to another century to outlaw it…..and they are still burning crosses.

          • Really, dear? Please show me evidence of slave ownership by Samuel Adams., John Adams, Josiah Bartlett, John Hancock, Rufus King and dozens of others considered to be Founders.
            Your ignorance is breathtaking.

          • You’re simply embarrassing yourself, dear. That “Womyn’s Studies” degree has rendered you bereft of intelligence, empathy and undoubtedly, male companionship.

          • John….Jamboy…Axelrod…Observant…Anon…..your time is ….once again….up.

            Sooooo obvious.

          • The typical leftist response…no substance and a desperate attempt at juvenile anger.

          • Typical reaction of a today’s university educated person.
            200 years after slavery was made illegal in Britain and 150 after it’s been abolished in the USA via civil war, it is beyond the grasp of a university educated person of today that just as the invention of combustible engine, the idea that slavery is bad has been served to her on a silver platter, no intellectual effort required. They cannot start to comprehend what a revolutionary idea at the end of 18. century it was to start questioning the institution of slavery that has been a matter-of-course part of human existence up to that point, and to conclude that there is something wrong with it.
            Protecting minority rights was a foundational principle of American republic. What allowed slavery to be practiced at that time was that it took time to recognize black slaves as such minority.
            And it so happens that it was white men who came up with the idea of abolishing slavery and who over time prevailed in enforcing it. And while the white men needed about half a century from conceiving the idea to implementing it in their own countries, to get the last of the non-white men to accept it, at least in law, if not necessarily in practice, took another whole century.

          • Oh bosh

            The nice white English sold hundreds of thousands of nice white Irish into slavery in the Caribbean and NA…..so don’t tell me your fairy tales of goodness and light from the white guys. LOL

            PS There are about 30 million slaves in the world today….some living in the garages of nice white people in California

          • And some are living in the worker’s quarters of nice posh homes in Vancouver.

          • Yup….I hear it’s a big status symbol there.

          • Nice trick, it’s called a straw-man argument. You make some stuff up, pretend that it has something to do with what I said, and then more or less coherently attempt to refute it.
            Sorry, didn’t work. I didn’t say anything about anybody being nice.
            I stated a fact that today, after slavery for millenia of known human history was an established or at least tolerated practice, during the last about 200 years, slavery has been officially outlawed in all of the world (unless I overlooked some pocket of persevering non-white culture), and that the effort to arrive at that outcome was initiated and brought to full fruition by white men.
            If anywhere in the world today, slaves are still captured, held and exploited (as unfortunately is the case and I indicated that when stating that slavery was abolished in law, not necessarily in reality), it is a matter of criminal activity, not a legally sanctioned business.
            I don’t know where you got your information about slaves in Californian garages, but if any such exist, they’re kept there by criminals. And it’s you, not me, who thinks that criminals should be treated with kid gloves.

          • Oh sorry….I was quite sure you said…wait a minute, here it is….’And it so happens that it was white men who came up with the idea of
            abolishing slavery and who over time prevailed in enforcing it.’

            Hey, you go count the illegal aliens living in California garages. I’m busy.

          • And your point about my stating the undeniable and simple historical fact is?
            But if you have it on good authority that there are some businesses in California that

            a) are either hunting and capturing locals in Mexico (and/or anywhere else), or buying them from local dealers, hold them captive and prevent them from returning back home,
            b) declare this activity as the nature of their business and pay taxes from their profits,
            you have a major scoop on your hands.
            A report on such sinister company(ies) can make you a journalist celebrity.
            I say, go, girl, go!

          • You seem to be torn between posting serious stuff and being silly.

            I’m sure you know very well that lots of people in California have Mexican nannies, gardeners and so on.

            House them in the garage, pay them a pittance…..and the Mexicans can’t complain or they’ll be deported.

            You can read about this anytime in the LA and San Francisco papers.

          • You seem to be constantly avoiding questions whenever you run out of even the lamest of arguments. So once more again – what exactly was your point about my stating the undeniable and simple historical fact about how world-wide ban on slavery came about?

            I sure know very well that a lot of people from Mexico, and not only Mexico, are coming to the USA to improve their lives. And I certainly feel sorry for their lot in life, especially for the Mexicans whose country has so rarely favourable natural conditions and such richess of resources, and yet, a hundred year of one-party rule (ia leftist party), their country instead of prospering is so economically devastated that living the way you describe means improvement of those people’s living conditions.

            But enough distractions, let’s focus.
            You were alleging that slavery is being carried out in California but failed to provide any details. I am still waiting for you to elaborate.
            Or was it just another verbal burp, with no actual meaning attached to a string of words?

          • ‘On December 10, 1948, the United Nations General Assembly adopted the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which declared freedom from slavery is an internationally recognized human right. Article 4 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states:

            No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms’

          • You absolutely convinced me that you can either type, or copy and paste (I suspect, the latter more likely).
            But now, back to California – I am still waiting for the sensational news about the slavery company or rings that you allegedly have some hard facts about.
            It’s not nice to just keep teasing my curiosity for such a long time.

          • You might note the quotation marks Einstein.

            And you have the California reply. Keep up.

          • All I have seen from you about California is that people are coming illegally in and prefer to live in garages and work for relatively low wages than face the living conditions back home.
            What you were advertising was that there is legally sanctioned slavery going on in California.
            I haven’t seen any details on that.

          • oh my gawd, now you’re talking about slavery. Talk about `keeping on topic’

            Is that slave-robots, or slave-androids, or the robot milkman that you keep expecting to come any day now?

      • The hard fact is – the Republicans won the House and the House is the primary player in matters of spending according the the Constitution.
        The US hasn’t turned into an absolutist monarchy after the 2012 Elections.
        At least not formally and legally, as yet.

        • You can make all the excuses you want….but Repubs are in the ditch.

          People have evolved beyond tea party nonsense. You should too.

          • It’s the law of the land that the House of Representatives is endowed with the “power of the purse”.
            That is a hard fact, no matter what you call it and no matter what juvenile infantile taunts you throw in trying to create a distraction.

          • They did the purchasing….then they wanted to be deadbeats.

            Seems somebody ought to explain the process to Teabaggers.

          • The arrogance of a Canadian thinking she knows more about the US system of government than educated Americans is breathtaking.

          • There aren’t any educated Americans here….and damn few Canadian ones.

          • Really? I’ll put my degree in Commerce from Mount Allison up against anything you allegedly have, dear.

          • No you won’t.

          • I just did, dear.

          • No you didn’t.

            Talk is cheap with guys like you.

          • I just gave you my degree and alma mater, dear. Apparently you lack the confidence to reciprocate.

          • LOL

          • The nervous laughter of being trapped, dear?

          • I was wondering how many years ago it was you first asked me that question…..and expected me to answer.

            You are such a dork.

          • That post is evidence of your complete detachment from reality, dear.

          • It is funny how you are just proven the point of this article.


          • You seem utterly confused.
            Pres. Obama’s unprecedented spending (and borrowing) spree started in 2009. The Democrats controlled both chambers of Congress at that time. In 2010, a handful of Tea Party congressmen got elected to the House, not enough to have any real influence. In 2012, about 50 Tea Partiers got elected. In spite of Democrat President and Democrat controlled Senate, they managed to get through at least some spending restrictions, known as the sequester.
            So how exactly did the Tea Party do any purchasing?
            And by what mysterious thought processes did you arrive at the delirious idea that they wanted to be deadbeats?
            I mean, really, what are you smoking?

      • yeah, and the harder fact is, he is a disaster. obamacare, mideast, economy.
        He Owns It.

    • “Opinions and beliefs are belittled and downplayed”???? How do you figure that? The default perspective of every newscast, every history book in north america, and every situation comedy is white, middle-class, heterosexual, and more often than not Christian. Spare me the poor-picked-on-majority line. It’s complete bs. Read the article. You are only whining because other people than white men are starting to get their fair share. Suck it up, buttercup.

      • Look, the demographic group you’ve just described just happens to be the very disproportionately highest taxed demographic in the country. We are the highest taxed because we’re the ones who have eschewed liberalism in favor of knuckling down and earning a good living. Because we’ve made the choices to earn well, we “get” to pay not only our own taxes, but the taxes of several others, too. But, when guys like myself suggest that government outghtn’t do this or do that on the basis that it will have this or that particular impact. And, when that consequence actually happens, or the desired results that the faceless, mindless “planners” in government were hoping fore don’t come about, “we” get blamed becasuse we simply didn’t believe hard enough. Sorry, buttercup, I’m not on that train any more. I know with complete certainty that governments have such a track record of f—ing it up that the best plan is to not let them do it in the first place.
        PS- If you’re not willing to work at a non-government job, or invest your saving and earnings into a business, just how do you propose getting your “fair share”? If I have worked at a private sector ob all my life, a big chunk of my own fair share has been confiscated by government because guys like you seem to think what is mine is also yours. If so, how much of yours is mine? I’ll take a certified cheque.

  26. Bunch of bull…every government employee ‘laidoff’ was paid in full to stay home. The problem, in large part, is ignorant reporting.

  27. The US is political system is based on compromise. If there is no compromise the system will break down. If you believe in democracy then you have to believe in the center.
    Canada’s system is not based on compromise, so extreme tactics will work for a while until people realize that extremism is not the way to go and the center is more inclusive.

  28. “Would there be any less rage in America over a female president than a black one?”

    No, of course there wouldn’t be. Nor would there be any less anger from the Tea Party if John Edwards had won in 2008 and enacted the same policies.

    The claim that Obama’s opponents are motivated by his skin colour is just an intellectually bankrupt lie by blind partisans who are desperate to smear his critics and are unable to come up with any real arguments.

    • There would be lots of anger over a female president….but if she was white and republican she’d at least get by.

      All these grandads think they could just tell her what to do. LOL

      • Your family must be really proud of you, dear. No doubt they bend over backwards to be insulted by a whiny brat like you.

    • he is half black. that means he is half white. i get so tired of anyone against obama being labelled a racist.

  29. Angry old white guys will give way very quickly to angry young people. Student debt, few jobs and a lousy environment should make anyone angry.

  30. This article makes a lot of weak points.

    The US gender gap is not that big once you control for race. Black and Hispanic women turn out in much higher numbers than Black/Hispanic men. Most of the gender gap is a gap in how members of different racial/ethnic groups vote. The core attitude driving tea party politics is racism (a fear that Obama is creating a permanent majority coalition of minorities addicted to federal largesse) is one that crosses gender lines. It is an attitude held by both genders down here.

    I’d argue that the attempt to tie tea party politics to developments in Canadian politics is similarly weak. Rob Ford certainly does inspire a kind of angry passion. However, if you looked at the analysis of the polls, Ford did well among non-white voters. Ford’s coalition is built around uniting the suburbs against the downtown. But the Toronto of my youth is not the Toronto of today – the elites Ford rails against are disproportionately white, while the “hardworking small businessmen” he champions are disproportionately new Canadians.

    As for Harper’s crime agenda, oy. First-off, the Liberals and NDP signed on to plenty of Harper’s crime agenda. Secondly, crime isn’t racialized the same way. Canadian incarceration rates do probably reflect a racial bias, but it’s native Canadians that are over-represented. The politics of white-native resentment aren’t electorally significant outside of a few parts of Canada (Northern Ontario, SK, Manitoba). When Jim Pankiw (the politician who best embodies ugly anti-native politics) ran as an independent in Saskatoon-Humboldt (having formerly represented the riding) he only garnered a few hundred votes.

    So lets summarize. There are different cleavages:
    -suburban vs. urban
    -male vs. female

    Some are important sometimes, others at other times. If you are a lazy journalist interested in lionizing the right or the left, however, go ahead and conflate one for the other.

  31. People think racism is a white males disease.

    Reality is anti white disease is very much alive and well. Its just not politically correct to discuss.

    • Oh people are well aware that anti-white sentiment exists….and whites have given others cause for the sentiment. Invasion, enslavement, exploitation…..

      Whites are also the only people that made it into clubs….KKK, Birchers, Tea Party….and fought a war over skin colour.

      • You may be the most ignorant Canadian I’ve ever encountered. Do you really have a university education? It’s not evident in the least.

        • If you’re looking for an ignorant Canadian….check a mirror.

          • Where did you obtain your degree, dear?

          • Which one Observant?

          • Any will do, dear. I suspect they’re of the unemployable variety.

          • Science and Economics have done well for me over a lifetime….still are for that matter.

          • Arrogant oaf. Proof positive that education alone cannot purge the mind of innate foolishness.

        • John, if you are going to call someone ignorant, your claim falls flat unless you actually point out what they said that isn’t true or what it is they are missing. Otherwise, you are just calling names and have demonstrated nothing.

      • White fought that war to free people over skin color.

  32. Isn’t just angry white men, its angry people. Black, White, Chinese, male, female doesn’t mater.

    Modern society is no longer working for marriages. Why get married to be slave? Why have kids? Domestic populating growth is 30% below sustainability and why we have loose immigration policies, can have babies…come to Canada.

    People are too busy supporting Ottawa babies to have their own. No economics in getting married. As single, you can’t even get a good economic support and if you do government taxes it from you. And after taxes, debt, family, they will tax you like slave as a senior.

    The statism (big taxing government) society of tax-debt-slavery isn’t working.

    What do all failing economies in the world have in common? Too much government and government debt on the productive peoples.

    Not too many happy people unless they like Dilbert and work for the government including government benefits as they are with unions that assure no government direct employee with eat the inflation and get raises better than inflation. But even then many of them are unsatisfied as they really accomplish nothing in life.

    Modern society isn’t working for the people, its working for the government like slave.

    • Yeah, the Dark Ages, or ancient Rome, or Tsarist Russia, or the cave days were all much better.

      Would you please stop putting your anti-tax nonsense into every topic on here!

  33. Without scrolling down, I predict that this comment section will contain exactly zero whiny rants about ‘white/male oppression’.

  34. Lots of ignorant bloviating BS…..the federal workers received BACK PAY for sitting on their BACKSIDES. A 16 day paid vacation. Do you not even read other sources?

    The rest of this bigoted bile is no more accurate. Obama is hated because he is a SOCIALIST not because he is black. 1/4 of the Tea Party leadership are conservative blacks. You pseudo-elitist moron.

    Tax payers are angry…..tax eaters grow fatter everyday…..but the parasite is no healthier than the host upon it sucks…and the DC imperialists of both parties have close to killed off the productive classes that actually MAKE something that can be sold overseas to bring cash into the American family….so the proggy and RINO brats fight over the debris that becomes less and less everyday.

    • I don’t know where you got all that crap, but crap it certainly is.

      No wonder the US gave a landslide victory to Obama.

      • How is that Hope & Change and Most Transparent Administration Ever working out for ya?
        90 mm dropped out of the workforce, and 45 mm on food stamps.
        its called obamanomics.

  35. Hey EmilyOne,
    You’re obviously a smart person. I enjoyed reading your comments here. You have an attractive mind. Keep up the thoughtful comments in the midst of the trolls you may encounter.

    • Well thank you Eddie! A nice comment for a change, and I really appreciate it. SMOOCH! =>)

      • This comment was deleted.

        • Cons get vicious when they’re sinking in the polls….no wait, they’re vicious all the time.

        • Em’s a typical lefty. They’re all big on expressing a need for a “diversity of perspectives” right up until that diversity diverges even slightly from their very narrowly defined uniformity. You’re encouraged to disagree with them, as long as you disagree within their previously defined parameters. If you fail to disagree according to their rules on disagreement, you have a closed mind, or are simply disagreeable. Got it?

      • Thanks for the reply. Looks like most of the cultural pedestrians on the Macleans site bring a butter knife to a gun fight and your gun is loaded with witty bullets that go over their heads. Brings to mind the funny lack of self awareness in Will Farrell’s characters but I digress. Your comments are more interesting than the articles themselves but that is typical of Macleans. Sigh. Sounds like you’re one of those upper Canada types – grrr. Lived enough of that. Happy to be in oil and gas land. Yeehaw! Ditto on smooch but I’m clueless on emoticons. Later gator.

  36. Handily won the popular vote?!?! Barry got 51%. Romney? 48% What a shellacking….You pinko lefties never quit do you?

    • A wins a win…by the way who’s Barry?

    • Ahh..why let the truth get in the way of a good contrived story

  37. Wow, a Canadian article comparing Canada with America; how novel! Comparing yourself to someone else is a sure sign of an inferiority complex, to which even your CSIS acknowledges Canucks have. Instead of writing hackneyed articles, why not invest that energy into improving Canada’s weaknesses? Since you like comparisons, Canada has lower educational performance and attainment than the USA. 12 of the top 15 universities in the world (academically) are in the USA. There are 92% more assault victims in Canada than in the USA. 100% more rape victims in Canada than in the USA. 13% more total crime victims in Canada than in the USA (stats provided by NationMaster). The average Canadian’s standard of living is 20 percent to 30 percent lower than the average American’s standard of living. Your health care is a bloated, government monopolized system; your Supreme Court notes that Canadians wait too long for health care and these waits have resulted in suffering and deaths. While you’re waiting to take my advice and improve Canada, please enjoy your American-installed branch plant economy. Remember, “Four cents out of every 10 cents of Canadian wealth is created from trade in the United States…” – former Canadian ambassador to the USA, Frank McKenna.

  38. First of all, obama won by what, 2% of the vote? And some 60 million stayed home because they didnt like either choice. Not quite a landslide.
    Second, the idea that america will be a non white majority country down the road is a liberal fantasy, but not written in stone. Russian white birth rates are back in the ascendence, and from what i see, that is happening in the US as well.
    Third, republicans popularity is way down because we finally figured out they are no diffferent than democrats. just look at the idiot mccain.
    we need a 3d party, and the TP is it.

  39. AWM isn’t a new phenomenon. Social studies academicians and journalists keep professing to discover new and unprecedented rage/extremism/unreasonableness/etc on “the right”. The various blocs of opinion were there for decades, but were not really exposed until the internet changed the information landscape and removed the gatekeeping function previously enjoyed by academics and media organs. Now those blocs have a voice and have influence. The mistaken perception (they weren’t there before; where did they come from) leads to a second error: hoping they will go away. They won’t. The blocs of opinion on the “left” and “right” will both continue to exist.

    As for anger, take a walk through certain neighbourhoods to gauge the measure of really angry people. By comparison, AWM are merely frustrated and opinionated.

  40. how typically biased

  41. DumDum journalism written (spun) to keep the ignorant as such. The objectivity of time and economics will show us how bad this Obamacare idea is and I’m sure the phony that wrote this will be nowhere to be found. For surely, just as virtually every other venture the government is in charge of and has run into insolvency ( Soc. Security, Post Office, Medicaid, etc…), Obamacare will be another Albatross on the neck of honest hardworking Amercans. The free-bos and losers wil love it.

Sign in to comment.