Were the pilots of the doomed Polish jet obedient to a fault? - Macleans.ca

Were the pilots of the doomed Polish jet obedient to a fault?

Crashing in fog belongs to an earlier age of aviation

Poland, Plane crash

Sergei Karpukhin/Reuters

Last Saturday the city of Smolensk, Russia, was shrouded in heavy fog. Before departing Warsaw, Polish President Lech Kaczynski’s flight crew would have studied the weather charts. Fog forms at dawn and often dissipates. Military pilots Capt. Arkadiusz Protasiuk, 36, and Maj. Robert Grzywna, 36, probably expected it to lift by 10:30 a.m., the estimated arrival time for their planeload of military, business, political and ecclesiastical dignitaries at Smolensk Air Base.

On this day the fog lingered. Visibility was insufficient for landing. According to one report, the pilots tried three times. On their fourth attempt, the three-engine Tupolev contacted trees about a kilometre from the runway and broke apart. All aboard perished.

It was a puzzling accident. Crashing in fog, though still available to venturesome pilots in the 21st century, belongs to an earlier age of aviation. The weather may not have changed much since powered flight began, but our ways of coping with it have. Aviators have developed drills, procedures, avionics and navigational aids to make flying in inclement weather almost as safe as flying in blue skies, even if not quite as predictable.

The drill isn’t difficult. Depending on the airborne and land-based equipment available to the crew­­—some systems permit so-called “zero-zero” landings, with no ceiling and visibility at all—pilots descend to the published minimums for the airfield they’re approaching. At that point they look out the window and either see the runway environment or not. If they do, they land. If they don’t (or aren’t sure) they execute a missed approach. They may try again, or just fly to the alternate airport filed on their flight plan. They don’t keep trying until the first tree stops them.

Why did Capt. Protasiuk and Maj. Grzywna?

With a reported 5,000 flight hours between them, the two pilots would have been qualified, if not impressively experienced. Western crews on presidential assignments would share 25,000-30,000 flight hours or more. But pilots don’t need immense experience to fly to an alternate airport.

The Russians seemed more than ordinarily dismayed. The last thing they needed on the 70th anniversary of their Stalin-era massacre of Polish elites at Katyn, the tragic event that President Kaczynski and his entourage had come to commemorate, was to have even more remains of Polish elites scattered around the forests near Smolensk. Deputy Chief of Russian Air Force Staff Alexandr Alyoshin was quick to point out that the Russians ordered the pilots to go away.

Alyoshin explained that as the Russian air traffic controllers saw the Polish plane’s rate of descent increase about 2.5 kilometres from the runway threshold, the head controller “gave a command to the crew” to level off, and when the pilots failed to “implement this order” the controller gave “several more orders” to the crew “to divert to an alternate airport.”

“Despite this, the crew continued the descent. Unfortunately, this ended in tragedy,” the Russian Interfax Agency quoted Deputy Chief Alyoshin as saying.
Inadvertently, the deputy chief may have put his finger on the possible cause of the disaster. It may not have happened because Capt. Protasiuk and Maj. Gryzwna were insufficiently obedient but because they were obedient to a fault.

In Western aviation culture, the pilot-in-command (PIC) is used to being de facto in command. A controller—or fellow crew member or passenger or employer—may request or advise a PIC but can’t order him. At one time pilots used to reply to controllers’ instructions with the word “wilco,” signifying that they “will co-operate.” The expression has fallen into disuse but the principle remains. No one outranks the skipper, whether on the ground, flight deck or cabin.

In non-Western aviation culture pilots know their places. A controller isn’t called a “controller” for nothing. The authorities aren’t unreasonable. As Smolensk regional government spokesman Andrei Yevseyenkov explained, while traffic controllers generally have the final word, they can and do leave things to pilots’ discretion.

Western aviation culture is the flip side of the coin. Although the final word is the skipper’s, pilots can and do comply with safe controller requests, even when inconvenient. What their command authority enables them to do, however, is to refuse requests they consider unsafe.

It’s a luxury Capt. Protasiuk and Maj. Grzywna may not have had. The word was during the Russo-Georgian conflict of 2008 the president got very huffy with a pilot who thought landing in Tbilisi was too risky.

Former Polish president Lech Walesa was quoted as saying that he had flown a lot “and whenever there was a doubt [pilots] always came to the leaders and asked for a decision.”  Yes. If the leaders wanted to try one more descent into the murk, a pilot’s response in that aviation culture would be to say “Sir!” and pull back the throttles.

In very light southeast wind, the plane’s last descent through dense fog would have felt serene and as smooth as silk. The cabin would have been quiet until the windows suddenly darkened and shattered under the impact of the first trees.


Were the pilots of the doomed Polish jet obedient to a fault?

  1. this article is a waste of time and space. much of what is written here is out of date and has already been disproven. if you are going to report news, please ensure it is accurate!

  2. "The truth is they did not establish contact with the polish airplane. the conversation was one way. possibly they Russians radio were malfunctioning or their incompetence had made them broadcast on the wrong frequency. who knows. but get your story right and print the truth."

    Likewise, more speculation doesn't help.

  3. Terrible article composed of uniformed musings. How does Macleans continiue to exist? Does anyone know?

  4. I think you had better get YOUR facts straight – you seem to know more than anybody else so where did you get your miss-information?

  5. If I wanted to read journalism of this calibre, I would have turned to the National Enquirer.

  6. I'm surprised how poor this article is, not worth the paper it's printed on. One can find much better and objective stories, especially in Wikipedia. Macleans editors, publishers and owners – wake up!!!

  7. Re Adam's and Red'scomments………this will be shocking if what you say turns out to true. This will make the Russian authorities look very incompetent and this would not surprise me….. however,.the whole truth should come out soon, especially after the three black boxes are examined by the Russians and Poles….I have a feeling this article will be proven correct in that the President told the pilots to go for it and not divert which I assume would have delayed the Presidential party's arrival at the Katyn ceremony…..a.brave but reckless decision in hindsight….perhaps a noble trait like the Polish cavalry charging invading German tanks on Sep 1, 1939………I pray for Poland in her grief.

    • Edward, this is too much. "Polish cavalry charging German tanks?!" Your ignorance has no limits. It was German and Italian propaganda that created that story, so learn your history. Fact was, Poland had an alliance with Britain and France, which was based on a mutual military assistance in case one of the countries was attacked. Hitler knew if Germany attacked France first, Poland would come to her rescue but he correctly guessed nothing would happen if Poland was attacked first.
      So please spare us these statements.
      I will not speculate about why the crash happened, I can only say, I have seen the photos of Russians changing the lights at the airport right after the crash, that by itself is enough to make you think. In addition, most of the conservative elite in Poland that were pro-west and anti-Russian died in that crash. This accident, ultimately was a result of politics, three days earlier Putin and pro-Russian polish prime minister-Tusk were both attending the official memorial service at Katyn, a service to which the president of Poland- Kaczynski was not even invited by the Russians. Enough said.

      • Oh dear God, are you so desperate to pin this on the Russians that you would link us to a Polish site known for it's sensationalism???? The pictures (if taken at Smolensk following the crash) clearly show portable lighting. Notice the cable drum the soldiers are carrying!!!!! Landing lights are neither portable or contained in Yellow surrounds (yellow denotes the landing area for sea planes!!!! http://www.erau.edu/er/newsmedia/articles/cont12…. This lighting was probably being set up as an improvised way to illuminate the crash site 200 meters from the end of the runway, that's why they are laying down the cable to take the power into the forest. The investigation of the crash site was conducted 24 hours a day. I understand the Poles natural distrust of the Russians but what you are trying to show us here is laughable!
        Do not get fooled by such ludicrous conspiracy theories. The Russians had nothing to gain from arranging the accident, in fact quite the opposite. All they had to do was wait a little while and the Poles would have removed Kaczynski themselves! Think about it my friend??????????

        • "The Russians had nothing to gain from arranging the accident…"

          I'm now starting to really wonder when I see the frantic and idiotic calibre of the the 'arguments' used by 'Crystal Ball' to in his attempts to maintain the original ;blame the pilots' story and exculpate the Russians.

          Is 'Crystal Ball' actually a pseudonym for George Jonas?

  8. Adam, what are your sources?

  9. Much of what you so arrogantly and superciliously assert is irrelevant.

    The published satellite photo of the crash site clearly shows, from the plane's debris trail, that it was descending at a tangential angle to the runways on a glide path that took it directly down over (and into) the trees.

    Why did the Russian air traffic controllers, who would have clearly seen this on their radar, not emphatically, continuously and urgently warn off the pilots?

    Was it because they knew that the navigational beacon had been deliberately shifted to encourage just such an approach?

    • Well let me explain to you basic laws of collision Mr McPherson! If while traveling at high speed you collide with a stationary object (either a radio beacon or a tree) your forward movement is altered considerably. If you crash your car at speed it does not continue on the same line as it was previously on! Now imagine the aircraft flying low, 1Km from the end of the runway at speeds well in excess of 100mph and having your left wing hit an object (this has already been confirmed). What happens????? The planes line of approach will swing to the left. Now go to Google Earth, Go to Smolensk North Airbase and draw a straight line from the runway out to 1Km using their scale. Superimpose the crash site satellite picture accurately onto the Google picture. Now do the same with the angle of the crash debris and see where the lines of normal runway approach and crash line intersect?????
      Surprised???? They meet exactly where the impact supposedly occurred. Strange, because it just happens to be the area where the radio beacon is located! By the way, the Russians did warn off the pilots, this has been widely reported, or maybe you missed that? Moved radio beacon, yes of course they did!!!!!!! Proof please.
      So arrogant or supercliously assertive, I don't give a damn! I'm interested only in facts and so should everybody else be in the name of truth. A pilots wife and children have to live with this shame for the rest of their lives and a whole mass of decent folk have had their lives ruined by the loss of their loved ones!

      • What an idiotic and utterly uninformed response! The Russians are are now saying that the radio beacon was out of action and under repair and YOU are furiously arguing that the plane crashed exactly in the area where the radio beacon (which YOU evidently think was STILL working normally and in its correct location) was actually supposed to be located.

        The fact still remains that the plane came in on a glide path utterly diametrical to the runways, a path that inevitably mean that it would descend into the trees, and that the Russian controllers, well able o see this on their radar, did nothing to urgently and repeatedly warn him of THAT.

        Indeed, by their own admission, they then went on to 'assis't' him with his landing after he declined their suggestion that he divert to Minsk or Moscow, because – as a military airfield – they had no authority to exercise any compulsion over a civilian flight.

        You seem woefully unacquainted with the basic facts here. Didn't they teach you in Propaganda 101 to get at least SOME of you facts straight?

        And what's with the multiple question and exclamation marks – are they supposed to be your substitution for a factual argument?

        • Your anger at being taken to task obviously plays havoc with your ability to concentrate on the written text.
          Nowhere do I say the plane crashed at the radio beacon. That must be obvious to anybody with basic maths! The beacon is 1Km out (as stated) and the plane ends up 200 meters from the runway (as stated). The statement is, "They meet exactly where the impact supposedly occurred", the object possibly struck by the left wing (as stated). furthermore, at no point do I state the radio beacon is functioning so I assume nothing.
          The glide path can only be confirmed by the data recorders and the ground control. As far as I am aware that data is not available to the public at this time! The Russians did in fact communicate with the plane many times, hence the reports about the pilot and controllers having trouble understanding each other in "broken English and Russian". They advised him to divert several times, including half way through the flight, as reported by the controllers and international media! Once the pilot had dumped his excess fuel he was committed to make the attempt at landing. If they hadn't assisted him with the landing then they would have still been guilty, according to your logic.
          "Woefully unacquainted with the basic facts" as I am, I do know that Smolensk North is a mixed use airfield, receiving both civil and military aircraft and has been for several years following it's runway upgrade to handle civil aviation. Also, you missed the fact entirely that the presidents plane is operated by the Polish Military, didn't you notice it's military insignia on the tail????
          However, I must state that I am "woefully unacquainted" with what exactly is Propaganda 101?????
          Perhaps you would kindly explain for me as you obviously seem to know more about it than I.
          Multiple question and exclamation are used because they annoy people and make them sloppy with their arguments. Seems to be working well!

  10. Crystal Ball ,
    Would you reveal your sources to support the following statement? "They made several flight passes over the airport before dumping fuel for their final approach. This is normal procedure in such dangerous conditions…" Thanks in advance.

    • http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article7094338.ece
      I should add Walter that all planes have a landing weight. It is normal procedure to carry more fuel than required for the stated destination. This is to allow for any diversion that may have to be made due to bad weather or a runway being closed due to an accident. If you read any of the aviation sites write ups on various near or actual disasters you will find many quotes regarding the procedure of dumping fuel. I truly don't know how much fuel they were carrying but the pilot would normally prefer to land light on fuel in such risky conditions. Of course, it must also be considered that "somebody" on board instructed the pilot to dump fuel in order to make sure the Russians could not divert them. This however is pure conjecture!

  11. Dear Mr. George Jonas,
    Your write "It was a puzzling accident. Crashing in fog, though still available to venturesome pilots in the 21st century, belongs to an earlier age of aviation." You should not be so surprised, these weather related accident always are. You probably don't remember the Air France plane that went off the runway two years ago in Toronto due to a heavy rain. Also, your believe that "The weather may not have changed much since powered flight began, but our ways of coping with it have. Aviators have developed drills, procedures, avionics and navigational aids to make flying in inclement weather almost as safe as flying in blue skies, even if not quite as predictable." was most likely shared by all passengers on this plane. This naive view is very convenient but proved wrong countless times in many modes of transportation by our mother nature. You cite statements from many Russian authorities and based on them you draw conclusions as to why and what happened. History shows that Russian media and authorities have a pretty poor record in this matter, and more than once were blamed with spreading misleading information to the world. Just to remind you nuclear submarine Kursk or Chernobyl cover-ups. If I am not mistaken the official investigation is still in progress, and every day new details are released. So far, most of them contradicts initial versions and statements especially the once you so heavily relied on. It just might be that the way things are going you might have to do a lot of backpedaling to give your future writing some credibility and avoid being steered in a wrong direction.

    • Walter, I don't understand how you can compare landing in rain to landing in fog. They are entirely different, particularly if the fog offers low to zero ceiling, which rain seldom does.

  12. And here's a link to an article on this tragic crash by Christopher Story, who for many years edited the highly-respected "Soviet Analyst" intelligence journal…

    Christopher Story's World Report- "Poland's Suspicious Second Katyn Tragedy" (includes casualty list)

  13. Any particular reason why "Charles", "Walter", "Josh", etc. is still allowed to keep posting?

  14. Look at the debris trail left by the Polish president's jet after it crashed in the bottom right-hand side of the satellite photo part-way down this page athttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1265482/L

    Does this look like it was left by an aircraft that was actually heading for a runway….? Or does it look like one that was left by an aircraft that was on a completely false glide path…?

    • I'm not a conspiracy nut, but the photos at Digi Globe are interesting to say the least. They suggest not only was the pilot short but also his bearings were off by 30 degrees or more. Very, very strange.

  15. Seriously, get a grip on yourself and go read a good book – non-fiction preferably

  16. Here's a VERY interesting web report on this tragic event which appears to include a lot of valuable additional background information…

    "Georgian TV Foretold Murder of Polish President by Russian KGB Terrorists" http://kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/2010/04/11/11
    (extract) "The killing of the Polish President Lech Kaczynski in a plane crash organized by the KGB (FSB), was reported on March 13, 2010 by the Georgian TV channel Imedi. A half-an-hour-long film about an alleged Russian aggression against Georgia foretold the killing of Lech Kaczynski in an explosion of his presidential plane… " (Link to this Georgian TV report:http://is.park.ru/doc.jsp?urn=27375571 ).

    The whole article is well worth reading!

  17. The report below, if true, is highly significant…! This is in reference to the Youtube video "Gun Shots Heard at Polish Crash Site " described in an earlier comment above.

    From 'The Big Wobble' blog,
    Tuesday, 20 April 2010

    The guy who filmed the shots fired at the POLISH PLANE CRASH WAS ASSASSINATED

    Thanks for the heads up Sunny

    "Author of the video seen by everyone by now has been stabbed near Kijow on 4.15 and transported in critical condition to the hospital in Kijow. On 4.16 three unidentified individuals unplugged him from life support system and stabbed him 3 more times. Andrij was pronounced dead that afternoon. Russian government claims it was a coincidence. "

    Link (Polish source):http://fakty.interia.pl/raport/lech-kaczynski-nie

    The 'Big Wobble' blog is also reporting that the original video has now been replaced by a NEW one:

    "…Here is the second movie, the first one was deleted and the guy who shot the film is now dead! http://gazbom.blogspot.com/2010/04/russia-enginee… "

    • What sources of trustworthy information Charles links us to.
      Polish Fakty is slightly less factual than MAD magazine with Alfred E Newman as Editor in Chief!
      As for gazbom.blogspot! Well, I can hardly write because of the laughter tears blurring my vision.
      Anyway, must run, the fairies are hungry and I can't keep them waiting or they might turn me into a McPherson!

      • The kind of typical response we've all become used to from 'Crystal Ball', the resident amateur pro-Russian propagandist – supercilious and utterly devoid of substance!

        • You have a fixation with nasty Russians and "reds under the beds scaremongering. You do realize the blog site you quoted also told everyone that the swine flu vaccine was designed to kill off a huge part of the population. Did you contribute to that article also?
          As for "Pro Russian"! If you only knew how wrong you are. However, seeing as you are wrong on everything else you write……….. it really does not surprise me!
          By the way Charles, I noticed today that your viewpoint with the members of this site doesn't seem to be appreciated that well.

          • As usual, your comment is 100% devoid of any useful information and – as is also usual with your postings – both supercilious and silly.

  18. This 'Huffington Post; article also raises some interesting questions:

    "The Mystery of Poland's Presidential Plane Crash Deepens" http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-kolonko/the-mys

    The additional information contributed by readers in the 'Comments' section below it is useful, too.

  19. New Information From Black Box Raises More Questions

    By Jane Burgermeister, 27 April, 2010.

    A black box recovered from the wreckage of the plane that crashed in Smolensk killing the Polish President and key military and civilian officials stopped at 8:41 am, and not at 8:56 am, which is the time point given so far by officials.

    An electric pylon in the crash zone also stopped transmitting power at 8:39 on April 10th, corroborating the notion that the Tupolev crashed about 15 minutes earlier than official accounts.

    Russian investigators examining one of the black boxes called MARS BM found that it stopped at 8:41, Poland's onet.pl reports.

    It has also emerged that there were four black boxes in the Tupolev and not three as stated originally by officials.

    The discrepancy between the official version of the time point when the crash occurred and the actual time of the crash 15 minutes earlier will fuel speculation that the crash was engineered and a cover up is in progress.

    A video with four gunshots has surfaced apparently showing surviving members of the crew being shot as part of a clean up operation that could have been performed in the 15 minute time gap.

    The Polish and Russian governments have postponed releasing details of the black boxes.

  20. Russia Publishes Katyn Massacre Archives

    IPN, via The Georgian Times,
    28 April, 2010

    Russia has published previously secret documents on the 1940 Katyn massacre, in which some 22,000 Polish officers were killed by Soviet forces, the BBC says.
    The state archive said the ‘Packet No. 1' documents had until now only been available to specialist researchers.
    The Soviet Union denied its role in the massacre for decades.
    Relations between Russia and Poland have warmed since the Polish president and others were killed in a plane crash on their way to a Katyn commemoration.
    The documents that the state archive published were declassified in the 1990s though only specialist researchers had access to them, reports said.
    They were published online on the orders of Russian President Dmitry Medvedev.
    Poland has repeatedly demanded that Russia open all its files on Katyn.
    Earlier this month, the Russian and Polish prime ministers marked the massacre together for the first time.
    Days later, Polish President Lech Kaczynski and more than 90 others were killed when their plane crashed as it was trying to land in western Russia ahead of a separate event to mark the killings.
    The April 1940 killings were carried out by the NKVD Soviet secret police on the orders of Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin.
    They shot members of the Polish elite – officers, politicians and artists – in the back of the head and dumped their bodies in mass graves. http://www.geotimes.ge/index.php?m=home&newsi

  21. Polish Military Prosecutor's Office: The Video Made Several Minutes After The Crash Of Polish President's Plane In Russia Is True

    28 Apr 2010 14:14 http://en.apa.az/news.php?id=121042

    Baku – APA. The video made several minutes after the crash of Polish president's plane near Smolensk, Russia is true, Military Prosecutor's Office of Poland said, APA reports quoting CNN Turk.

    The video shows three moving silhouettes, arms, person jumping from the plane, laughter and the pilot's voice calling for help are heard.

    Poland's Military Prosecutor's Office said the documents related to the flight were being investigated, 60 gave testimonies, but it was impossible to specify the exact time of the crash.

    The author of the video is reportedly Andrei Mendierej. He was stabbed shortly after the video was released on the internet. Andrei Mendierej was unplugged from the artificial respirator by an unidentified person.

  22. Pilot Warned He Was Too Close To Tthe Ground By GPWS System

    By Jane Burgermeister, 28 April, 2010

    The pilot of the Tupolev plane that crashed in Smolensk two weeks ago was alerted by a safety device at 500 feet (152 metres) that he was flying too low and that he needed to pull up, it has emerged.

    An analysis of the voice recorder shows that the Ground Proximity Warning System, GPWS, alerted the pilots about 30 seconds before the crash that he was flying too low, telling him to pull up several times.

    It is not clear why the pilot failed to react to the warnings from the GPWS system that were issued periodically for a 30 second period or so before the crash took place.

    It has been speculated that the pilot was confused by fog and by landing beacons placed in wrong positions.

    In addition, a huge Russian military transport plane, an IL-76, could have been flying in front of the Tupolev and forced the plane to fly lower to avoid a collision. Air turbulence from the IL-76 plane would have pushed the Tupolev even lower and into a collision with the trees.

    There is a fifteen minute gap between when the Tupolev plane actually crashed and when the plane crashed according to official accounts.

    In a separate development, the Polish military prosecutor's office has said that the video shot in the immediate aftermath of the crash and with four gunshots appears to be authentic but has been compressed for uploading on youtube and so needs further investigation.

    The video shows fog thickening from “minute to minute”, said officials, according to media sources.

    Andrei Mendierej, who shot the video that appears to show surviving crew being shot, was stabbed shortly after the video was released on the internet, and died after his respirator was unplugged in a Kiev hospital.

    Also, Polskaweb reports that Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin has put on ice plans to seal a huge gas deal.

    Tusk and Putin were expected to sign the deal as early as next week.

  23. Well, well worth reading…!

    Interview: 'The Only Politically Acceptable Explanation Is To Blame Polish Pilots'
    Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, 28 April, 2010. http://www.rferl.org/content/Interview_The_Only_P


    "RFE/RL: Are you hopeful the real cause of the crash will be uncovered?

    Zurawski vel Grajewski: By the Russians? Of course, no. Whether the Polish services are able to do that, since the crash took place on Russian territory, I don't know. What I can say is that the only politically acceptable explanation is to blame Polish pilots. Because any other explanation would be cause for a huge scandal.

    It could have been a mistake by the Russian air-traffic controllers, or the crash of a Russian-produced and Russian-repaired plane, or a deliberate action by the Russians — all three of these scenarios would cause a huge international scandal. So the only acceptable political explanation is to blame the Poles. I think this will be the result of the Russian investigation."

  24. This is for the Polish lady I spoke to late this afternoon on Lake Shore Blvd West.

    Make sure that your colleagues at work get to see this video!

    From the 'Sentinel Raio' blog at http://sentinelradio.wordpress.com/2010/04/29/new

    "New Enhanced Video Shows Survivors In Polish Plane Crash

    Meanwhile, the Poles have made another examination of the video file with the shooting of survived passengers of the plane. In zoomed version are clearly seen the KGB terrorists and survivors, who were then finished off."

    (The enhanced video is embedded in the blog page at the link shown above: you can view or download it by going there)

  25. And now for the counter-claims (I'm including this to be scrupulously impartial).

    This may or may not be planted 'disinformation'; on the other hand, it might turn out o be absolutely true.

    When I compare the 'gun shots' video translation above with the claim below, it does make me wonder somewhat.

    On the 'Favorite Games' website, athttp://www.favoritegames.tk/?p=1460 , is a posting headed "Video of Adrij Mendierej? – Audio is from PC game!!! The Polish president was killed?"

    It is followed by these three comments from two readers. I'm not a computer gamer, so can someone who is check the accuracy of the assertion made below?

    "3 Responses to “Video of Adrij Mendierej? – Audio is from PC game!!! The Polish president was killed?”

    1. Slovensko1939n, on April 30th, 2010 at 10:51 am Said:

    @2020production No, Part of audio is from computer game. Syrene and Russian: Davaj sjuda ty paskuda …etc… and shoots is from computer game. Pc – game Freedom Fighters… And Boy what made this video is not Adrij Mendierej but Kolja….. His father call him Kolja.. IT is Fake!!!

    2. 2020production, on April 30th, 2010 at 11:46 am Said:

    No the audio is not from a computer game but is real.

    3. Slovensko1939n, on April 30th, 2010 at 11:51 am Said:

    Audio in this video is from PC – Game (Freedom Fighters) !!!"

    Can someone else with access to the two computer games mentioned above kindly make a comparison of the audio track on the 'gun shots' video with them for us, and report back on whether this claim is true or not?

  26. Readers can make their own assessment of the statements in the last four paragraphs in the story above by viewing the photographs on the web page linked below – they seem to clearly support these assertions:

    "Smolensk Polish Plane Crash Victims' Bodies Photos" http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1

  27. From Jane Burgermeister…

    Komorowski moves to tighten control of institute with list of spies


    Poland's Komorowski Approves Shakeup Of Archive Body


    April 29, 2010

    WARSAW: Poland's acting president signed into law on Thursday a plan to reorganize an archive institute that has been at the centre of bitter political battles over the country's communist past.

    The Institute of National Remembrance (IPN) oversees and analyses Poland's communist-era files but can also prosecute those it believes committed "crimes against the nation", by for example collaborating with the secret police.

    The head of IPN, Janusz Kurtyka, was killed along with his close political ally President Lech Kaczynski and 94 other mostly senior officials in a plane crash in Russia on April 10.

    Kaczynski, a eurosceptic right-winger, had been expected to veto the centrist government's bill, which changes the rules for appointing the head of the IPN. Acting President Bronislaw Komorowski, who took the helm on Kaczynski's death in his capacity as speaker of parliament, is the candidate of Prime Minister Donald Tusk's ruling Civic Platform (PO) in a presidential election now set for June 20.

    "Today I signed nine bills including… the one on the IPN," Komorowski told reporters.

  28. Regime Change by Plane Crash (continued)

    The European Union stands to gain the most. Certainly, Russia doesn't benefit from this affair, except perhaps in the form of military dominance. But those aggressions have long since past, and Poland is not a big threat to Russia. The EU wants Poland to step into line with their program, so that they can go on to the next stage of global governance. With the last piece of their puzzle being put into place, the EU is now being fully united in a corporate body.

    What is the message that this oddly-timed regime change has brought to the people of the free world, countries and leaders who wish to resist the globalist empire? Oppose us and die! Greece, Italy, Ireland and other states within the EU have shown their desire to stand apart from complete EU governance and the domination of the Euro, and now Poland has been made an example of. Dare oppose the IMF, the Eurozone, EU-mandated vaccinations and the global powers-that-be, and you will be dealt with most severely.

  29. Questions Arise Over Time Of Death In Coroner's Reports

    Warsaw Business Journal,
    5th May 2010

    Polish authorities have now received reports from the Russian coroner's service presiding over the autopsies of the 96 bodies pulled from the doomed presidential plane that crashed over Smolensk on April 10.

    Rzeczpospolita journalists got their hands on copies of three autopsy reports and find the time of death entered by the coroner of some curiosity.

    According to the documents, the people died at 8:50 am. But the plane's black boxes reportedly stopped recording at 8:41 am. And medical personnel didn't arrive at the crash site until after 9 am. This raises questions over how the 8:50 am time of death was determined.

    Source: Rzeczpospolita


  30. Unauthorized Person Was In Cabin Of Crashed Tu-154

    Voice of Russia,
    May 5, 2010 18:25 Moscow Time

    An unauthorized person was in a cabin of the Tu-154 plane which crashed near Smolensk on 10 April, killing the Polish President Lech Kaczynski and 95 other passengers on board. Experts say the unidentified voice can be heard on the plane`s recorder, the Polish TVN-24 channel reported on Wednesday. Though only four people are allowed to stay in the presidential plane`s cabin- captain, second pilot, navigator and an engineer, there was someone else. Chances are it might have been a flight attendant or one of the passengers, the TVN-24 channel says. The Polish Prosecutor's Office yet has not officially confirmed this information, ITAR-TASS reports.


  31. US Joins Russian-Polish Probe Into Smolensk Plane Crash

    Voice of Russia,
    May 4, 2010 16:50 Moscow Time

    Russian and Polish experts are travelling to Washington to continue the investigation into the Tu-154 plane crash near Smolensk with their colleagues from the US Transportation Security Bureau. Together they will examine the crashed plane's ground proximity warning system and the navigation system. The TU-154 plane carrying the Polish President Lech Kaczynski and 95 other passengers on board, crashed near Smolensk on 10 April. No one survived.


  32. Unauthorized Person Was In Cabin Of Crashed Tu-154

    Voice of Russia,
    May 5, 2010 18:25 Moscow Time

    An unauthorized person was in a cabin of the Tu-154 plane which crashed near Smolensk on 10 April, killing the Polish President Lech Kaczynski and 95 other passengers on board. Experts say the unidentified voice can be heard on the plane`s recorder, the Polish TVN-24 channel reported on Wednesday. Though only four people are allowed to stay in the presidential plane`s cabin- captain, second pilot, navigator and an engineer, there was someone else. Chances are it might have been a flight attendant or one of the passengers, the TVN-24 channel says. The Polish Prosecutor's Office yet has not officially confirmed this information, ITAR-TASS reports.


  33. US Joins Russian-Polish Probe Into Smolensk Plane Crash

    Voice of Russia,
    May 4, 2010 16:50 Moscow Time

    Russian and Polish experts are travelling to Washington to continue the investigation into the Tu-154 plane crash near Smolensk with their colleagues from the US Transportation Security Bureau. Together they will examine the crashed plane's ground proximity warning system and the navigation system. The TU-154 plane carrying the Polish President Lech Kaczynski and 95 other passengers on board, crashed near Smolensk on 10 April. No one survived.


  34. FROM: Flightglobal.com
    SOURCE:Air Transport Intelligence news

    Tu-154 Crash Inquiry Questions Polish State Yak-40 Crew
    By David Kaminski-Morrow

    Investigators attempting to explain the crash of the Polish presidential Tupolev Tu-154 at Smolensk are interviewing the crew of a Yakovlev Yak-40 from the same presidential squadron which successfully landed ahead of the ill-fated jet.

    Russia's Interstate Aviation Committee adds that a working group is still filtering the Tu-154's cockpit-voice recorder to eliminate extraneous noise and identify parts of the conversation record.

    The Polish prosecutor general's office states that the Yak-40 crew transmitted a warning by radio to the Tu-154 pilots regarding the worsening weather conditions at Smolensk.

    Another aircraft, an Ilyushin Il-76, had also conducted test approaches at Smolensk "a few tens of minutes" beforehand, the office adds, before departing.

    While the precise time difference has yet to be determined, the office says it was long enough to "exclude the hypothesis" that the Tu-154 was affected by wake turbulence.

    The prosecutor's office says the inquiry is studying personal data devices – such as mobile phones, cameras and laptop computers – retrieved from the wreckage to see whether they contain valuable information pertaining to the 10 April accident, and to check whether there was any risk of electronic interference with the Tu-154's systems.

    Although the aircraft was delayed in its departure from Warsaw, evidence indicates the Tu-154 was prepared properly and was in "good working order", and that the aircraft's fuel was in line with standards. The prosecutor's office also says there is "no reason to question" the modification work performed by the Samara-based Aviakor plant before the aircraft was returned to Poland last December.

    Both pilots knew the Russian language "sufficiently", it says, adding that the crew had undergone strict training. But the office says that it would be "premature", based on evidence so far received, to reject – or accept – the conclusion that the crew's actions contributed directly to the accident.

  35. Here's a Youtube video of the thousands of protesters who demonstrated yesterday outside the Presidential Palace in Warsaw, Poland, demanding "We Want The Truth!" about the mysterious Smolensk plane crash which killed the Polish president and the elite of the Polish government and military…

    "Demonstracja pod pałacem prezydenckim 09.05.2010" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3cISdSWSvw&fe

  36. Jarosław Kaczyński, the twin brother of the Polish president Lech Kaczyński, who killed in the tragic Smolensk plane crash, now appears to be gathering wide popular support in his bid to replace his brother in the upcoming presidential election…


    Margin Between Kaczyński And Komorowski Narrowing

    Warsaw Business Journal,
    10th May 2010

    Law and Justice (PiS) presidential candidate Jarosław Kaczyński is catching up on rival Civic Platform (PO) candidate Bronisław Komorowski according to two separate polls.

    A survey by Gazeta Wyborcza saw PiS gaining two percent on the previous poll, conducted two weeks prior, while PO lost seven percentage points. Mr Komorowski is still leading the race with 43 percent against Mr Kaczyński's 36 percent.

    The results of the second round have not changed since the last poll, however. Mr Komorowski and Mr Kaczyński would garner 67 and 33 percent respectively.

    A second poll conducted by Dziennik Gazeta Prawna saw PO's Komorowski gather 43.7 percent of the votes while 33.9 percent would vote for PiS's Kaczyński. The latter gained 2.1 percent over the previous polls, while PO lost 2.5 percent.

    The presidential elections, which are to be held on June 20, were called early this year following the April 10 presidential plane crash which killed President Lech Kaczyński and all 95 others on board. According to the Polish constitution, Sejm Speaker Bronisław Komorowski took over as acting president.

    “A few weeks of national recollection has changed a lot. People know that Lech Kaczyński was not as the media portrayed him. [I am] pleased that support is growing, even though three weeks have passed since the mourning,” PiS MEP Adam Bielan told Gazeta Wyborcza. “It's not compassion, it is a political choice.” (RG)


  37. Poland Remembers Smolensk Tragedy

    by Roberto Galea,
    Warsaw Business Journal,
    10th May, 2010.

    Commemorations mark a month's anniversary since the crash which killed President Lech Kaczyński

    In the week's national mourning following teh tragedy thousands of Poles paid their tributes to the victims
    Courtesy of the Chancellery of the President

    A small ceremony was held in front of the presidential palace in Warsaw on Monday in remembrance of 96 people, including Polish President Lech Kaczyński and his wife Maria, who died in a plane crash on April 10.

    The event was organized by Law and Justice (PiS) politicians who also invited others to attend.

    Controversy surrounded the event, however, as members of the Civic Platform (PO) and Democratic Left Alliance (SLD) parties were not present.

    “I was outside the palace before 9:00 pm yesterday,” Michał Boni, an aide to PM Donald Tusk, told TVN24. “I did not hear of any invitation.” He added that a number of commemorations were planned on the day, during which one can pay tribute to victims of disaster.

    PO spokessperson Andrzej Halicki confirmed that no one invited PO members to participate in this event. “I only heard about it from the media,” he explained.

    Mariusz Błaszczak, PiS's spokesperson, told PAP on Sunday that the party was officially inviting other MPs from all parties to attend the ceremony. The information was also posted on the party's website on Sunday.

    In a statement issued on Monday, PO wrote that we should remember that the death of those aboard the presidential plane had, above all, an individual side to it. “That is why we placed candles and flowers on the graves of [MPs] Krystyna Bochenek, Grzegorz Dolniak, Sebastian Karpiniuk, Maciej Płażyński and Arkadiusz Rybicki. Also today, representatives of the Civic Platform, laid flowers at the Wawel Castle [in Kraków] – the resting place of the presidential couple,” TVN24 quoted the statement as saying.


  38. Polish MPs Commemorate Smolensk Tragedy

    Polskie Radio/thenews.pl.
    10.05.2010 10:28

    Polish parliamentarians from all political parties gathered outside the presidential palace, Monday, to commemorate the tragic air crash at Smolensk exactly one month ago.

    The MPs lit candles and laid wreaths in remembrance of those who perished in the catastrophe, which killed President Lech Kaczynski, his wife Maria, as well as 94 other Polish dignitaries who were going to the 70th anniversary ceremony of the Katyn massacre.

    The ceremony took place at the initiative of the Law and Justice (PiS) parliamentary club, which appealed to other political groupings on Sunday. The Democratic Left Alliance (SLD) also proposed laying wreaths outside different parliamentary clubs: the party's presidential candidate, Jerzy Szmajdzinski, was among the passengers who died in the crash.

    Among the politicians taking part were acting head of the PiS, Marek Kuchcinski, the director of the Polish People's Party (PSL), Staniskaw Brzozka, with SLD being represented by Bogdan Lis.

    The Civic Platform (PO) sent a statement to the press that its deputies had not only laid flowers by the presidential palace in Warsaw, but in other cities across the country, stating that “the best place to pay homage to those who died at Smolensk is at the place of their eternal rest.”

    Jacek Sasin, a close aide of Lech Kaczynski's and a minister of the Presidential Chancellery, was also present at the commemoration ceremony, which was also attended by many Varsovians wishing to pay their respects. (jb)

    Source: PAP


  39. Poles Mourn Presidential Couple

    Posted by: hlie03sf5,
    May 10, 2010.

    People in Poland are lining up to pay their respects to president Lech Kaczynski and his wife, who are lying in state in closed coffins in the capital's presidential palace.

    Maria Kaczynska's body was returned home on Tuesday morning to be placed next to her husband, following a fatal plane crash on Saturday that killed all 96 people aboard.

    Jonah Hull, Al Jazeera's correspondent in Poland, said the palace in Warsaw had “become a shrine”, with people laying flowers and photos at the feet of the caskets.

    “The presidential palace has become a focal point for that public grief, a shrine it has become with an ever-growing sea of candles brought and lit by people as a sign of respect and remembrance.

    “Hundreds of people are still here, it is a normal working day but that hasn't stopped people coming,” he said.

    Special observance

    Parliament has held a special observance in memory of Kaczynski and the politicians killed in the disaster.

    The bodies of the first couple are to lie in state in the Columned Hall of the Presidential Palace, where the president appointed and dismissed governments.

    The couple are expected to be buried in Wawel castle in the southern city of Krakow on Sunday, Poland's PAP news agency said.

    Kaczynski and his entourage had been travelling to mark the 70th anniversary of the massacre of Polish officers by Soviet secret police near Smolensk when his plane went down in thick fog.


  40. Here's a Youtube video of the thousands of protesters who demonstrated yesterday outside the Presidential Palace in Warsaw, Poland, demanding "We Want The Truth!" about the mysterious Smolensk plane crash which killed the Polish president and the elite of the Polish government and military…

    "Demonstracja pod pałacem prezydenckim 09.05.2010" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3cISdSWSvw&fe

  41. Smolensk Plane Warning Systems OK, Says Manufacturer

    Polskie Radio/thenews.pl,
    12.05.2010 09:19

    Initial results have indicated that the inflight warning systems installed on the presidential Tupolev, which crashed on 10 April, were all properly functional.

    The results of the tests have been sent to the Russian commission into the crash at Smolensk, which killed President Lech Kaczynski, his wife, and 94 other Polish dignitaries onboard the Tu-154.

    Edmund Klich, the Polish observer to the Russian investigation, is reported to have received the test results on Monday, although is refusing to release any details.

    Last week, Russian and Polish experts flew to the US to visit the producer of the TAWS (Terrain Awareness System) and two other onboard satellite navigation components.

    Mobile phones to blame for crash?

    Investigators are now looking into whether interference from mobile phones might have caused the Tupolev's instruments to display false readings.

    Andrzej Seremet, Poland's chief prosecutor, revealed to the Rzeczpospolita daily that up to 100 mobile phones are being analysed as part of the investigations, adding that most of them were active in the final stages of the flight, suggesting that calls were made and text messages were sent from the devices.

    Ongoing investigations have also found that the jet fuel used to tank the Tu-154 was of good quality, and that absolutely no firearms were used on the plane. (jb)

    Source: TVP Info


  42. Who Texted Passengers On Flight 101?

    Polskie Radio/thenews.pl
    13 May, 2010

    It is has been established that most of the passengers of Flight 101 failed to switch off their mobile phones for the duration of the Tu-154 flight from Warsaw to Smolensk on 10 April.

    Over 50 percent of phones found were on at the time of the crash, which killed all 96 passengers on board, including President Lech Kaczynski.

    Andrzej Seremet, the Prosector General, announced on Wednesday that the Internal Security Agency (ABW) is to be charged with investigating whom passengers were in contact with in the final minutes before the crash.

    Seremet has underlined that prosecutors are not assuming that the mobile phones caused interference with inflight systems, but are not discounting it either.

    Aviation experts have said that mobile phone signals do not have any bearing on a plane's altimeter or airspeed indicator readings.

    The chief prosector has also announced that Jaroslaw Kaczynski, twin brother of the late president Lech, is to have a hearing as part of the ongoing investigations. A date has not been set for the meeting, however. (jb)

    Source: Radio ZET


  43. Katyn Massacre Conference Held

    Written by Krzysztof Nowak,
    The New American,
    Wednesday, 12 May 2010.

    On May 5, 2010, in Washington, D.C., at the Library of Congress, a special conference took place to commemorate the 70th anniversary of the Katyn Massacre of 1940.

    It took on a special significance owing to the recent crash of an airplane carrying an official Polish delegation in which 96 delegates perished near Smolensk, now Belarus, formerly territory of the Soviet Union. The delegates were there to commemorate the 70th anniversary of the massacre. Among the victims of the crash were the present President of Poland, Lech Kaczynski; former President of the Polish Republic in Exile, Richard Kaczorowski; and Janusz Kurtyka, one of the chief investigators of the Katyn Massacre from the Institute of the National Remembrance, as well as the Speaker of the Polish Congress, the Vice-Speaker, members of Polish Parliament, several generals, leaders of the Katyn Families Association, and a founder of the Solidarity movement, Anna Walentynowicz…

    Article continues athttp://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/world-mai

  44. POLISH AIR CRASH: "PILOT DECIDED TO CRASH LAND" ("Don't Worry, We'll Blame It On The Pilot SOMEHOW!")

    Continued from posting above…

    Glossary 9f aviation terms used above:

    "QFE is a Q code used by pilots and air traffic control (ATC) to refer to the barometric altimeter setting which will cause an altimeter to read height above the official reference datum for a particular airfield (generally the height of a particular runway threshold). An altimeter set to QFE will therefore read zero when on the ground at the beginning of the runway.
    In modern aviation only a few of the most frequently used old Q codes are still used/remembered, eg.:QFE – subscale setting to give height above aerodrome,
    QNH – subscale setting to give altitude above sea level."
    QFE/QNH definitions above from:http://en.allexperts.com/e/q/qf/qfe.htm

    Other aviation terms used in report above:

    WGS – Wideband Gapfiller Satellites
    FMS – Flight Management System
    NDB – Non-Directional Beacon
    MDH – Minimum Descent Hight
    XUBS – Oznaka aerodrome Smolensk
    TAWS – Terrain Awareness System
    VMC – Visual meteorological conditions
    RA – "A radar altimeter, radio altimeter, low range radio altimeter (LRRA) or simply RA measures altitude above the terrain presently beneath an aircraft or spacecraft. This type of altimeter provides the distance between the plane and the ground directly below it, as opposed to a barometric altimeter which provides the distance above a pre-determined datum, usually sea level." Source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar_altimeter

  45. Poland Says No NATO Secrets Leaked In Kaczynski Crash

    RIA/Novosti, Moscow,
    16 May, 2010.

    There were no NATO sensitive data or devices on board the Polish president's plane that crashed in April near west Russia's Smolensk, a top Polish military counterintelligence official has said.

    A Soviet-made Tu-154 aircraft crashed on April 10 when it attempted to land in thick fog, killing all 96 people on board, including President Kaczynski and other top state officials.

    "There was a satellite phone on board the Tu-154 plane, but there were no 'secret codes,' devices or cryptographic materials," said Col. Colonel Krzysztof Dusza, head of Poland's Military Counterintelligence Service (SKW).

    "The above-mentioned president's phone was a simple satellite phone," he told reporters on Saturday.

    Concerns have emerged with media suggestions that the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) could have intercepted sensitive documents and data carriers, such as laptops and flash drives, immediately after the crash.

    The Polish official called these unconfirmed media reports "pure speculations."

    Russian and Polish investigators and experts are jointly investigating the causes of the deadly crash, while Polish military prosecutors are conducting their own investigation.


  46. And the dead President's twin brother is now hot on the heels of Komorowski in the up-coming June presidential election…

    Law And Justice Closely Follows Civic Platform

    Polsie Radio/thenews.pl
    16.05.2010 13:23

    The ruling Civic Platform would gain 39.6 percent of votes, the opposition Law and Justice 35 percent, should parliamentary elections were held today.

    According to a survey conducted by the Homo Homini institute for Polish Radio two other parties would cross the threshold the Democratic Left Alliance with a 8.3 percent support and the Polish Peasant Party with 6.6.

    Marcin Duma from the Homo Homini Institute underlines that such results give no possibilities for a majority government. “There is no required majority and the only parties which have enough support allowing them to form a coalition government are Law and Justice and the Civic Platform. The presence of other groupings within the Parliament remains unchanged”.

    Readiness to go to the polls is declared by 61.3 percent of the respondents, 28.2 say they will not participate in the elections while 10.6 percent remain undecided. According to political analyst Radoslaw Markowski these results may change with the approach of the elections but they clearly point that only two parties count on the political scene in Poland

    “Law and Justice gained and Civic Platform lost but these are only percents, which do not necessarily mean that there is a new, bigger electorate of the Law and Justice. It may be that only less people support Civic Platform".

    Saturday presidential survey conducted by the Homo Homini Instite showed that there is much more interest in electing the head of state than voting for a party. Over 65.5 percent of the respondents stated they will take part in the presidential elections scheduled for June 20th. (ab)


  47. Breaking News on the BBC website, quoting the investigating committee says, "NON-Crew members in cockpit at time of crash"! One voice is already identified but identity will not be released until the investigation is complete.
    "What a surprise" – NOT!
    I can tell you now that when the final verdict comes out there will be a lot of angry people wondering why they have their ex President buried in such a sacred place!

    Following the news of 1 hour ago in Poland, Charles McPherson should go back to the mental institution he obviously escaped from! His one man campaign to implicate the Russians (or whoever else fits the bill) is littered with inaccuracies and falsehoods. He quotes from sources that are as unreliable as his muddled thinking. His endless posts show a complete disregard for reason and should be laughed at or pitied!
    I have no idea why he should want to write at least 30 "waste of space" posts on the subject but I believe he should get himself a job in Disneyland so he can live in a world of make believe full time.

  48. (Continued from posting above)

    Anodina said the issue required further examination and refused to draw any conclusions.

    The investigators confirmed officially for the first time that the crew of the Russian-made Tu-154 had ignored warnings from air traffic control not to land.

    "The air traffic controller at Smolensk Severny airport… twice warned the crew that there was fog at the airport, visibility was 400 metres (440 yards) and the conditions were not present to receive the plane," said Alexei Morozov, head of the committee's technical commission.

    He said that 16 minutes before the crash, the crew of the Tu-154 also received information from a crew of a Polish air force Yak-40 which landed successfully earlier in the day that visibility was 400 metres.

    Then, "four minutes before the crash, the crew of the Yak-40 informed the crew of the Tu-154 that they evaluated the visibility at 200 metres," Morozov said.

    Without shedding further light on the cause, Anodina said the technical commission had established that the crash was not the result of an act of terror or technical failure.

    "There was not an act of terror, an explosion, a fire on board or a failure of aviation equipment. The engines worked until the collision with the earth," she said.

    Kaczynski and the presidential delegation were killed as they were heading to a memorial service at Katyn, near Smolensk, for 22,000 Polish officers and troops killed by Soviet forces 70 years ago.

    The Katyn atrocity — which Moscow for years falsely blamed on Nazi troops and was subsequently reluctant to discuss — had poisoned relations between the two countries.

    But the crash saw a huge outpouring of grief in Russia and signs of a reconciliation between the two former Communist neighbours.


    Continued in next message)

  49. (Continued from posting above)

    Polish prosecutor, General Andrzej Seremet said the transcript of the black boxes will be released.

    (Photo: A firefighter walking near some of the wreckage at the crash site where Kaczynski, his wife and the country's most prominent military and civilian leaders died)

    'The only part of the recording which will remain secret is the screams of pain and fear of the passengers and crew recorded just before the catastrophe,' said one Polish report.

    An investigative source said: 'In the last 20 seconds of recordings can be heard not only talk in the pilots cabin, but also growing mutterings from the passenger compartment. In the end, we heard an unearthly cry of horror and pain.'

    Officials later denied that passenger screams could be heard on the flight deck recordings.

    But they also admitted that they were having difficulty identifying voices on the flight deck, which means they cannot yet rule out that the pilots were talking to their VIP passengers shortly before landing.

    They say the probe could last many months.

    One theory is that President Kaczynski may have pressured the air force pilot Captain Arkadiusz Protasiuk against the advice of Russian military air traffic controllers.

    He is known to have argued with his pilots previously on landing decisions.

    Some 20 bodies from the crash have not been identified so far despite the use of DNA profiling by Russian experts.

    The Polish head of state, his wife Maria, and senior officers and officials were on their way to commemorate the 1940 Katyn massacre of 22,000 Polish officers and intellectuals by Stalin's forces.


    (Continued from posting above)

  50. And, just to make the main point on these distracting and misleading 'voices in the cockpit revelations' again…

    "There had been media speculation that a high-ranking member of the Polish delegation could have ordered the pilots to land, although until now this had so far been dismissed by investigators on both sides.

    The Polish representative to the investigation committee, Edmund Klich, said the individuals had been in the cockpit 16 to 20 minutes before the crash.

    "I do not think this had a decisive effect on the causes of this event. But this is my personal opinion and only after a full investigation of all the circumstances will this be clear," he said, speaking through a Russian translation.

    Anodina said the issue required further examination and refused to draw any conclusions."

    – From 'Puzzle Over Polish Plane Crash', SAPA, via News24, South Africa, 2010-05-19 16:26, athttp://www.news24.com/World/News/Puzzle-over-Poli


    "Edmund Klich, Poland's envoy to the investigation, said only that "certain suggestions" were made by the passengers that he believed had no influence on the plane's fate, though admitted he had not heard the recordings. The voices were heard no later than 16 minutes before the crash."

    – From: 'Details Revealed In Kaczynski Crash Investigation', David Novak, Associated Press Writer, 10:21 am EDT May 19, 2010.

    (This quote also inadvertently reveals that the Russians are STILL barring the Poles from actually hearing the black box conversations, even as they themselves hold 'news conferences' to dole out selected information from them!)

  51. Can't the conspirators get their story straight?

    "Russia Today", which seems to have provided most of the false leads ever since this story broke, is now trying to claim that there was a 'passenger' in the cockpit MOMENTS before the Polish Air Force TU-154 crashed, IN SPITE of the clear assertions, based on the newly-released black box analysis, that the 'two passengers' (one of which was the Commandant of the Polish Air Force") were in the cockpit NO LATER THAN 15 -20 minutes before the crash!

    (Quote)…"One of the non-crew members was in the cabin seconds before the moment of the crash, the investigation established."…

    It then goes on to report, however, that:

    (Quote) "The situation did not violate Polish flight regulations, Edmund Klich, head of Poland's Air Incident Investigation commented. The presidential flight was not a civilian aircraft, where intrusion of strangers into pilot cabin is strictly forbidden.

    “Polish regulations don't subject military aviation to these procedures. They are obligatory for all civilian planes, but have not authority over military aviation,” he said."


    However, at the same time, 'Russia Today' is also reporting:

    (Quote)…"Moreover, flight records of the final moments of their plane suggest an open cockpit door and the unauthorized presence of two extra persons in the cockpit. All these are gross violations of rules."


    "Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive" (English proverb)

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