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BTC: It’s a date


 

Jack Layton and Stephen Harper are booked for a 1pm tea at 24 Sussex this Saturday.


 

BTC: It’s a date

  1. PG Tips or Earl Grey?

  2. Well it definately won’t be green tea…

  3. As if they haven’t been sneaky pals with meetings all along.

    Anybody fooled by this?

  4. Sandi

    Two party leaders, both of whom happen to hate the Liberals, are having tea. Fooled by what?

  5. Life is kind of funny as awhile back I was flamed mercilessly becasue I proposed a hypothetical that seems to start to be playing out – sometimes you just have to laugh … hmmm I wonder well we shall see this is turning out to be an exciting time coming up and that is for sure!

  6. the election is off. i read the tea leaves.

  7. Tea at 1 p.m.? Is it 4 p.m., or lunch at 1 p.m.?

  8. Sandi,

    Sneak into Western Canada sometime and see what pals NDPers and Conservatives are.

  9. Whoa, the Jack! and anti-Jack! together. Will Mr. Layton, the Silver-mustached Surfer, be the cosmic herald to the world destroying Galactus Harper?

  10. somehow it only seems fitting that the PM and Layton are discussing things as he has been a far better leader of the oppostion than Dion. Layton can actually lay claim to some integrity for getting the NDP to actually stand up and vote against the government which is considerably more than the Lieberals can say!

  11. C’mon Wayne, if you’re commenting here then you well know that it was easy for Jack and the Orange brigade to be the ‘opposition’ when they don’t have to votes to bring down the government anyways.

    Dion and the Libs were obliged to abstain and ‘not show up for work’ because Harper insisted on playing chicken with every single motion and bill.

    The Libs and Dippers were both trying to make government work at committee which cause the Cons to filibuster in order to ‘protect’ their bills.

  12. By the way Stephen – you raise an interesting point as out west here in BC the word Liberal pretty well gets your phone hung up on you if introduce yourself as such and this is both provincial and federal : check this out = For the first time in years, more people say they would vote for B.C.’s New Democrats in an election than for the ruling Liberal party, results of a new public poll show. : I think that this is mostly because of the Carbon Tax and just general all round attitude of the Lieberals I for one am supporting the NDP Provincially and the Conservatives Federally and am not alone (PS: seems to be a few disaffected Lieberals joining me as well)

  13. David The Liberals are ‘obliged’ to oppose, not abstain, and they haven’t done the one task their are expected to do. What the two other parties do is irrelevant.

  14. I’m waiting for the floods & earthquakes, but I have to agree with Wayne.

    It doesn’t matter what kind of tea they drink. I’m willing to bet the cups they drink out of, the table they sit at and the chairs they sit on are made in China.

  15. David : the logic escapes me as you said : Dion and the Libs were obliged to abstain and ‘not show up for work’ because Harper insisted on playing chicken with every single motion and bill. : I say = what earthly power prevented Dion from bringing this gov’t down a long time ago alas there can be only one reason : he was afraid of losing more than he was afraid of selling out his principles in other words he was not being an effective leader of the opposition and to the issue of playing chicken if you can’t stand the heat don’t hang out in a fire after a few confidence motions I may have ageed with you but 44 !!!!! Then again in a strange way I have to thank Dion as he has been the best friend my party ever had as there is no way this would happened if Iggy or Bobby were leader and I think we all know this!

  16. Why do Cons want the opposition to be stronger than it is? Isn’t it better for bullies to be unopposed and reign supreme in a de facto sort of way? Why do they want the Libs to get rid of the “weak” Dion? Don’t they want a weak opposition? Why do they want the Liberal Party to rebound even stronger and beat them? They should be Dion’s biggest cheerleaders, as he has “let them” govern themselves into a hole.
    If only Dion could get rid of his leadership debt, he would show that he has party support. What?!!? It is supposed to be paid off sometime in September. This September?!!? But but but, that is one of the main Con Talking Points, he can’t be that successful, it doesn’t fit the projected image of him. Darn it Dion, why keep surprising us with resilience and success? (Although the media would be loath to admit such a thing freely.)

  17. KRT : simple answer to your question Iggy or Bobby would put up a much better fight how do you think Harper earned the bully image but by constantly outmanouvering and outplaying Dion at every turn and frankly it is getting boring I and many other canadians love a good political scrap and Dion just doesn’t supply the goods it is like watching Muhammed Ali fighting a junior rank contender he has to spend more time holding his opponent up!

  18. If the opposition combined were to vote against everything they opposed in the last two and a half years, which I think is just about everything, this election would have been held umpteen times already with varying results along a similar theme: no clear majority. It is disingenuous to argue from any existing political perspective that one party’s principled stand is another’s unprincipled pragmatism.

    Either you agree with political strategy or you don’t. Either you stand on principle or you don’t. Unfortunately for us all, each party appears guilty of pragmatic electoral strategy and claims to principle all in one sentence.

    To my eye, what that does is cancel out the moral high ground all the way around.

    Hey, there’s a pin head over there (I said pin head, not pinhead), let’s go see how many angels can dance on that one!

  19. Personally, I think it’s ludicrous that any government can declare any of it’s motions to be a confidence motion.

    I’m not alone in this, Stephen Harper agrees with me when he says “The government has a minority – it has an obligation to demonstrate to Canadians that it can govern. That it can form a majority in the House of Commons. If it can’t form a majority, we look at other options, we don’t just concede to the government’s request to make it dysfunctional.”

    But, like so many things, what Harper says and what Harper does are only related in that they’re opposites.

  20. Stephen Harper’s road to a re-election, let alone a majority government, runs through Jack Layton and the NDP.

  21. Wayne, Dion has been campaigning in townhalls all over the country. His English is way better and his leadership debt is melting. You Cons make fun of his “weaknesses”, but then keep replaying the same broken record for almost 2 years; he took note of the criticisms and got better. The press doesn’t report it because it is contrary to their favourite narrative of him being a loser. All he has to do when the writ is dropped is keep doing what he is already successfully doing. He is not hiding behind his entourage, he is actually meeting and listening to Canadians, and answering any and all questions. Harper has his photo ops and teleprompters, but not an ounce of Dion’s honesty and sincerity, or courage to face the masses without a defensive perimeter. Harper does not have the stones nor the disposition to actually be respectful. Keep flailing at that caricature, but once the spotlight is on, my money is on the man who can handle the glare and harshness, rather than the one throwing temper tantrums whenever he doesn’t get his way. The era of angry politics will soon implode, since anger and hate can only inspire the masses for so long, and eventually the people will choose hope, because doom and despair just won’t hack it anymore. Dion will be PM, as he is by far the better, and stronger, man. It is guaranteed that when Harper leaves office (an inevitability for all PMs), he will be one of the least liked PMs in history.

  22. KRT: I dunno about that. The latest scrum I saw Dion at he didn’t seem to come off well to me at all. And I say this while generally agreeing with what he was saying. The press seem to make him nervous, and when he’s nervous he starts trying to talk too fast and his english goes to pot.

  23. Jack Layton, right-wing hero? Well, if he could get the Conservatives to be fiscally responsible and more accountable for election promises, then maybe we would have a party that is fiscally right of the Liberals. Doubt it will happen, however.

    Don’t know how Harper and Layton will feel on small topics like the environment, arts and culture, abortion, gay rights, strong federation, accountability in Ottawa and all those other things Harper loathes.

    But it is a free cup of tea!

  24. T. Thwim: after seeing him in person, attracting 200+ people on a stormy Monday night, and seeing how he actually listens and talks to people. Some of the questioners went on and on, but he listened and would come out with a response like “actually you had 3 questions, I will start with the last and then answer the others”, and then he did just that!! My fiancée and I were most impressed by this and the energy surounding him (if you have seen him in person, you will know what I am talking about.) Just because you don’t see it does not mean that it is not there. You will see once the election begins, he is the real deal. He has been around and fought off the Separatists on their own turf, and he won! He has been at the head of a party in dire need of renewal, and after the Chretien-Martin war decimated the ground under the party’s feet, and he will lead it to victory. He will be an amazing PM, there is no doubt of that.

  25. CPC supporters don’t get it…Dion has been doing the political equivalent of the rope-de-dope…and guess what? The CPC can no more hide its bankruptcy in policy and ethics with blatant posturing…

    Jack will copu…er…capitulate with Harper, and the boy who would huff and puff to blow the house down will again feel like he’s king-of-the-castle…

    Austin

    Austin

  26. Hey Austin the point of rope a dope was to block yourself lean back against the ropes and withstand the beating until your opponents arms got tired then come out swinging. Dion has changed that somewhat as he is trying to rope a dope by sitting in the corner on his hands and not coming out into the ring! Oh! by the way we CPC supporters have got it all along it is the poor frustrated Lieberals who just don’t seem to get it with the canadian voters anymore and as they say the proof is in the eating of the pudding and my dinner is finished so hopefully we will see you at the polls sooner rather than later!

  27. “David The Liberals are ‘obliged’ to oppose, not abstain, and they haven’t done the one task their are expected to do. What the two other parties do is irrelevant.”

    Isn’t it a little more nuanced than that? If it was their sole job to vote against the government, then we would have had an election in March 2006.

  28. Wayne, the proof is in Dion casually musing about Harper’s stance on abortion, and Harper hitting the panic button and flushing Epp’s bill 484. That was not leadership, that was someone running scared when faced with a simple yes-or-no answer. Your dinner is colder than your Glorious Leader’s heart.

  29. Thanks for the link B. very insightful and hopefully close to the mark after all the right has gone through it’s dark night of the soul as they say in mystical texts and the left has been very divided for quite some time maybe this would be just what the doctor ordered for the left – wouldn’t that be interesting.

  30. Gee Wayne…”Lie-berals”? Is that the best you can do? Well, I suppose coming from guys whose answer to Dion’s climate change proposal was Mr. Splotchy….

    Yeah…Harper in the political ring, duking it out with scripted questions, teleprompters, the cavalcade of motorcades, the 90 sec photo-op…he-man stuff of legend, that…all while targeting Dion mercilessly with grade-school level advertising that has cost them millions (such a prime example of their sense of fiscal propriety)…and guess what? Nada. Dion hasn’t disappeared. At least when he was facing separatists, he was dealing with some level of intellect in argument. But with the CPC we get “not-a-leader” and “Mr. Splotchy”. Thanks for coming out. Give ’em a big hand!

    The problem with Flanagan’s “analysis” is that all he knows is functioning of the Reform-Conservatives, so his perspective is skewed by what he thinks is normal, a party comprised of paranoid freakoids that need to be kept under lock and key lest they open their traps and ready to ditch you at the most convenient opportunity.

    Boom-ba-ye, Monsieur Dion.

    Austin

  31. I don’t think interesting is quite the right word to describe it Wayne. I see things like Bill C-484, C-10, and C-61 and really do worry what would happen if Mr. Harper were to get a majority.

    I see things like how Harper goes back on his word the instant it becomes advantageous for him to do so, without any regret, and I honestly don’t think any other party is that dishonest. Not even the Liberals, who at least seem to realize when they’re doing wrong and try to hide it.

    I see Mr. Harper deriding science and fact when making his decisions, and wonder how long Canada can continue to be a great country if we are governed by ideology instead of reality.

    I see his, and his party’s, refusal to be consultative with the public and wonder, do I really want to elect someone who feels the public serves his whims, or would I rather someone who feels s/he must serve the public?

    Don’t get me wrong. I like having a strong conservative party around, they provide some needed checks and balances, but I do actually fear what will happen if they get too strong.

  32. Hey Austin : I’ll take the nada you speak of anyday against … but but but it is hard to make priorites. As well I think my boy Stevies arms have had a nice little break what with Dion sitting on his hands for 44 confidence motions now there is a track record you can take to the voters = vote for me and I guarantee you I will work real hard for my fat little pension by not doing anything for you especially if it comes to standing up for something. Boom ba ya ya indeed.

  33. Hey Wayne, according to Harper he couldn’t get anything done! So, now what, does he or does he not have a track record? If so, then what’s the rush, couldn’t he get poor little abstaining Dion to abstain anymore? It turns out, that by abstaining, Dion was waiting to see the white of Harper’s eyes (although it helps that Harper is now in wide-eyed panic mode.)

  34. Well KRT let me see maybe (1) lower national debt (2) lower taxes .. just in time (3) stronger military (4) maybe even more territory see sovereignity and arctic(5) stronger law and order etc etc etc I could run on that platform and beat Dion now why will my boy Stevie maybe not wait until the house reconvenes and there is another confidence motion – hmmmm let me propose a scenario that might answer this though I could be way off however there is a factor involved here few Liberals are talking about right now and this is something that has to happen in December with the Liberal Party providing there is no election and if you don’t know it’s called a leadership convention I cant help but think that this is a key factor in Harpers strategy though I could be wrong we shall see … because can you or someone who is a Liberal honestly state that you would support Dion over Iggy or Bobby this time. The really sad thing is that I have Liberal friends some of whom have told me that they want an election so they can have the leadership convention and not have to support Dion. Good grief now that is ‘ fine kettle of fish ‘ as they say (hey this was almost clever fish bait etc:)

  35. Wayne, one day, most probably when the election results prove that those rose-coloured glasses of yours are actually blinders, you will see that not even Rae or Iggy could’ve done as well as Dion. The Chretien-Martin establishments had their candidates, and the grassroots chose neither of them; they chose someone who puts country ahead of himself, and fearlessly so. I joined the Liberals and started monthly donations because I believe in Stephane Dion. I have never said that about a politician ever. I find him inspiring and believe in the nobility of his pursuits.
    If Harper wins again, which is remote if you are a realist, whoever is leader of the Liberal Party will not be of much importance in the grand scheme of things, because I truly fear for the compassion and decency of my country if Harper is leader for very much longer. The only thing that people love more than dominant aggression in their leaders is to see that same invincible brute get taken down by the underdog. Stephane Dion has mucho karma and honour on his side, and he’s got a political team that will blow Harper’s potted plant Cabinet out of the water.
    Sure, Cons are disciplined when on message, I just don’t think they can think on their feet. And an electoral spotlight will do nothing but show that Con bluster is all you have. Attack away, it’ll be the main reason why the Cons fall so hard.

  36. Well KRT I left the Liberal Party because of the way they treated Chretien and I became a Conservative after hearing a speech by my boy Stevie and I was very impressed and like you I donate time, energy and my money to the party (I especially like driving the elderly to the polls election day I have been doing this for years) so in this we have much in common and like they say time will tell and I do hope you keep your ideals fine and upstanding as they are and we shall see though if I were you I would re-evaluate the leader is not important section of your particular ideology because in canadian politics it is very and I mean very important without a strong and decisive leader the party will get nothing done as it will get busy eating itself until it does get one and that is for sure.

  37. A leader must definitely be strong and decisive, but one can be also be and strong and decisive in totally the wrong direction. I don’t believe Harper’s strength and decisiveness have served our country well, but it has kept his party base and members popular amongst themselves and for a little while many Canadians (and pundits of course, they love such master chess playing) but Canadians are starting to be turned off now that they realize that smearing individuals,breaking promises and overall acting very thuggishly are not virtues, and does not represent the average Canadian. The next election will present stark contrasts, and I am banking on Canadians recognizing basic decency and compassion, and once they give him a slight chance, Canadians will like Stephane Dion. I believe that only through dastardly manipulations and nasty behaviour can the Cons ever hope of winning. But that would require fooling all of the people all of the time, and time’s up.

  38. A major minority… While our oppostion leaders were busy getting lessons in political excess at the Democratic National Convention in Denver Colorado, our PM was busy fending off a large group of unruly leopard seals who had brazenly tresspassed into Canadian territorial waters without registering with the Coast Guard first. I would like to thank him on behalf of all Canadians for standing or for our rights without regard for his own personal safety. But if he thinks that he can buy my vote with a series of empty gestures and equally dubious campaign promises, as he leads us down the garden path to a fall election, then he is badly mistaken. I not only want a nice fat brown envelope full of cash delivered to me by Karlheinz Schreiber at a local Tim Hortons, but I want him to pick up the tab as well. Then, I will be quite prepared to go to the mats after whacking both Layton and Duceppe, be willing to pour polonium into Dions’ double-double, and vote for the Communist Party if necessary. Buying my undying loyalty comes at a steep price. And I don’t take cheques.

  39. Wayne, I’ll certainly admit Harper talks a good game. The problem is that what he does and what he says are diametrically opposed a lot of the time.

    For instance, this talk about extending Canada’s sovereignty in the Arctic to it’s full 200km. I’m all for that.. a bit nervous about how it might affect our relations with Russia, but for it nonetheless. Unfortunately, he’s talking about protecting our Arctic sovereignty while cutting the funding for the very ships we need to do that.

    If Canadians go beyond listening to the pretty speeches and look at what’s actually been getting done, I tend to think they’d be looking for a new “strong, decisive” leader. To be honest, I think the Progressive Conservative Party should have done that as soon as McKay sold them out to the Reform party.

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