'Nothing more than a smear campaign' - Macleans.ca
 

‘Nothing more than a smear campaign’


 

This evening, Olivia Chow, the NDP MP and wife of Jack Layton, has released the following statement in response to a story aired by Sun media.

Sixteen years ago, my husband went for a massage at a massage clinic that is registered with the City of Toronto. He exercises regularly; he was and remains in great shape; and he needed a massage. I knew about this appointment, as I always do.  

No one was more surprised than my husband when the police informed him of allegations of potential wrong doing at this establishment. He told me about the incident after it happened. Any insinuation of wrongdoing on the part of my husband is completely and utterly false, which is why after 16 years and 8 election campaigns that my husband has campaigned in, this has never been an issue.    

In the last hours of this election, this is nothing more than a smear campaign in an attempt to question my husband’s character. This is another reason why politics in this country need to change and on Monday, Canadians will have their chance to do just that.   

Lawyers for the NDP sent a letter to Sun media, which reads as follows.

We are the solicitors for the New Democratic Party of Canada.

Our client has obtained information that one or more of your newspapers is considering running a story for tomorrow’s edition that makes allegations about events in 1996 involving Jack Layton, Leader of our client. 

The facts are that Mr. Layton had obtained a massage from a massage therapist, but had no knowledge whatsoever that the therapist’s location may have been used for illicit purposes. He does recall being advised by the police at the time that he did nothing wrong, but that the location was questionable, and to be stayed away from. Mr. Layton gave the officer his name and address, and nothing further happened. 

Any statement or inference that Mr. Layton’s actions or behaviour was other than the facts stated above would be without any factual basis, would clearly made with malice, and ought not to be published.

In fact, it would be irresponsible in the extreme for any such story to be printed.

Damages, as you will appreciate, would be very significant.


 

‘Nothing more than a smear campaign’

  1. Sun media….Fox News North eh?

    The same outfit that was going to print a photo of Ignatieff in uniform, carrying a gun, on the front lines….in Iraq.

    Which turned out to be photoshopped. [Nooo, really??]

    Patrick Muttart from the PMO got fired for doing that…he was the sacrificial lamb that day. [They take turns]

    If Cons want to open the closet..cough…on skeletons, ones that are real, not imaginary…it will be the last thing they ever do.

    This kind of smearing is a disgrace to Canada, and totally unacceptable.

    • What skeletons ?

      Harper has been PM for 5 years. All the dirt has been thrown. They've gone after minister Lunn because his assistants second cousin knew Bruce Carson or something.

      There's nothing left to throw at the CPC.

      The heat is on Jack now because he's about to reach the top. It comes with the territory.

      Jack Layton is a shady character, a used car dealer, a guy who pushes a woman out of the way to make sure his smiling mug is on the tv during a hockey game ??

      You didn't know this ?

      Sure thing Cats.

      • the closeted ones are his Ministers, furball

      • Um sir, or cat rather, perhaps you should be careful not to point fingers too quickly when it comes to women's rights.
        Take a look. The dirty finger is being pointed elsewhere. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmthTKSWFWw&fe

        Does anyone else remember the 19 scientists who were all granted money for research and who were all male? No?

        • What's your point ?

          Way more men go into science and engineering then women do. More women go into social sciences than men do.

          In those specific slots all the best individuals were men.

          What's your point ? Should we have made it 50/50 even if the women weren't as good ?

          Serious Cats ?

          • If you are telling me that there was not a SINGLE female scientist in this country who was just as qualified as any of those men, then I will be dumbfounded. But what's the point in arguing with you? None.

          • While Cats has been found dumb.

          • It was an international competition actually.

            In science and tech usually the top 5-10 are all men in any field. Its what happens when so many more men go into sci tech than woman.

            Get your facts right and stop trying to sacrifice scientific integrity in the name of gender.

            Serious Cats

          • That article seems to back up cats more than you. The nominees were put forth by the universities, in a fair manner, it just happened their candidates, based largely on seniority, were all men. I'm sure 20, 30 years from now it'll be tilted the opposite way where they're mostly women as almost every university program takes more women than men now.

            These sorts of grants are solely merit based, as they should be. Affirmative action is not the answer.

        • That video is funny.

          SH cut funding for special interest groups. OH NO!

          • Women – just another special interest group.

          • special interest groups have rankings?

      • I agree. I also think that he showed poor judgement at that time, for a career politician. He went to this place apaprently at 9:30 pm, there was a bouncer at the door, and he was in a bedroom when police arrived.

        That's all okay, but they warned him that he could have gone into a place owned by Triad, and could have left himself open to blackmail. According to the police notes. So it showed really poor judgement to me – to even go into a place like that; and it also displays a lack of concern about exploitation of women; and sex trade workers.

        Not impressed. I'm disappointed that he really is the vain and shallow jerk I always thought he was. I don't trust him, he's not honest, and he's playing around with the lives of Canadians, and with this country. Got no sympathy whatsoever.

        • I'm glad your convictions have been justified. Even if it was by Sun TV.

          • Jack said he was there and his wife said he was there.
            End of story, nothing to do with Sun TV

        • How do you feel about Carson…a much more recent debacle. Did it prove to you that Harper was the vain and shallow jerk?

        • Where was "Triad" mentioned? Have you seen the notes or are you just making it up like the rest of the Conservative smearers do? Why aren't the notes available for everyone to look at?

          • When the cops advised Jack that the gangs often videoed the sex acts and used them for blackmail, Jack went white.
            What did he have to worry about if he was taped getting a massage?

      • You are an oxygen thief.

    • The Libs could take a lesson from this. Don't take the Harper BS sitting down. Fight back immediately.

    • Jack said he was there, his wife said he was there, the cops referred to it as a bawdy house.
      What part of this dont you understand?

      • Except it wasn't a bawdy house. It was a mistaken police raid if anything…..told to us by an 'anonymous' retired cop supposedly.

  2. F**king makes me sick. F**k Fox News North.

    • While I agree, I thumbed you down. There's a reason MacLean's block swear words. Circumventing it is just worst than the words themselves.

      • You can't blame Sun for what Layton did. He's big and old enough to know better; and so is his wife.

        • He should have known better in choosing where to get a massage? Is that your point?

          • The question is what kind of "massage"

        • Are you saying the Asian woman in the story was his wife? I didn't know that.

        • So how do you feel about Carson and the escort in the PMO residance? I am SO sick of the hypocrisy.

          • Two wrongs dont make it right

          • Neither even compare….Carson was CONVICTED…Jack didn't even get arrested..man o' man this is gonna' backfire on the cons…….already is..

    • Why? Because they report the news?
      Strange that you dont want news reported.

      • 16 year old news by a source that will probably get arrested for leaking police material….If this "cop" can be found that is. I am of the mind that if an arrest wasn't made 16 years ago than , no, it isn't news.It is hearsay…innuendo…and a smear job by the Cons….I am not the only ones who are going to think this.

  3. The question is, will this be enough to push the NDP over the edge and get them a minority government?

    I mean, seriously. Do the idiots at SunTV not realize that this kind of blatant, flimsy, not even very scandalous if he'd been doing what they're trying to fool you in to thinking he was doing smear job will probably push more voters to vote FOR the NDP than against them???

    The only thing this story tells me about Jack Layton is that he's doing even better than I thought he was, and some people are starting to panic. Expect to see Donald Trump on SunTV any moment now demanding to see Layton's birth certificate.

    • At 9.30 at night you'd go to a shady second floor apartment, strip naked, for a "massage" ?

      Even if nothing happened and that soiled kleenex just had snot on it doesn't it still show a shocking lack of judgement for a politician ? For a potential PM ?

      2 weeks after massive raids ? Going to a known bawdy house ? Seriously ?

      In the US the mob would have had a girl jump on top of him and snap a photo before he knew what was happening. I'm guess the triads are the same way.

      Then its extortion all the way.

      Dissapointed, puzzled, maybe disgusted Cats ??

      • You were a regular customer as well? Seems weird that you know so much detail about the place.

        • The police notes were obtained by Sun.

          Jack is either clueless with really bad judgement or he was taking advantage of a young woman.

          This story matters.

          Matters Cats

          • If you think that getting a h**djob is worse than misleading parliament, silencing civil servants, bullying arms-length agencies, signing on to untold jet costs, smearing political opponents in a McCarthyistic way, shutting down information to the press, etc etc etc…. then you have crazy ethics.

          • You're clearly mentally unbalanced.

          • the police notes say 'suspected john' they do not say John or Jack layton. They could have been written by anyone and most likly were written by Fox themselves. Who is this policeman that had these notes 16 years later? He retired 11 years ogo or at least they say he 'retired' but who knows the truth? Who knows if he even exists?
            I posted on here a few days ago that the Fox news planted story about Ignatieff in Iraq was so Fox could look credible in future smears and…here ya go Canada.
            I say the panic is on, Jack got a massage and the religeous righteous right is outraged! Crime is OK with them, contempt of parliament is OK, 50 million to their friend Tony is OK, one billion on G8 is Ok but wait a minute.. he went to a massage parlor! Unacceptable!

          • Apparently the Carson debacle is "OK" with them too..I really think this is going to backfire on them.

      • Exactly. I really wonder about his character after this. Who was this masseur? Where did she come from? Why was she working there – what was her training, and was she a legal immigrant?

        Just for starters. Then we can get onto his attitude about women in general.

        • You win the coffee on the keyboard award. You question Layton's attitude about women? What about Harper's record when it comes to women's issues. Who took equality out of the status of women?

      • So Cat, you think the Mob is backing/causing the surge for Jack so they can blackmail him when he's Prime Minister? This needs to be shouted from the rooftops.

    • The only other possibility is that what Olivia Chow heard was a very faint rumor and that she knew beating Sun Media to the charge would do just what you described.

    • You raise some interesting points.

      I would have to agree that Layton must be doing "that well" that some are starting to panic and actually feel threatened by him.

      And more than that… I think that you're right — this will actually catalyze more votes FOR the NDP than it will against.

      With Love and Gratitude,

      Jeremiah

      • The NDP already had the pro-prostitution vote in the bag.

        The family vote ? Not so much anymore.

        Victory Cats!

        • Yup, the Cons and their public safety minister got that family vote all wrapped up.

        • I thought Harper got the pro-prostitution vote with his good buddy Carson. Escorts dining with cabinet ministers has really has really taken away the stifma. don't you think Cats?

          • I wonder what Harper was doing in his office 'alone' late at night?

    • Once again we want to divert fronm what Jack did and shoot the messenger.
      You people must be paid to write this stuff.
      No reasonable person would ignore what the guy did, and attack the messenger.

  4. If this an attempt to slow down the NDP, I think it's going to backfire in a big way.

    • That's the official line eh ? (no literally it is, straight from an NDP press release)

      Everywhere I go on the net I see someone saying "I wasn't going to vote but now i'm voting NDP!!"

      My eyes roll. And roll. And keep on rolling. Any of you guys really believe that ??

      Anyone saying something like that or making that claim was an NDP supporter to begin with !

      Cats away, mice will play.

      • I really don't care, actually… just a prediction. But I'd still bet a case of beer that it'll backfire. I'd bet another case of beer that you wouldn't take that bet, too.

        • Sorry but the type of people it would backfire on are already voting for Jack.

          You can't vote twice.

          On the other hand feminists will be disgusted. Women are a big part of the NDP base. Christian union members from mining, construction, and foresty are dippers too.

          People care if Jack's a good husband. If you're not a good husband you're probably not going to be a good PM.

          Cats away

          • We shall see, Cats. We shall see. If, on May 2, we see Jack's support fall through the floor, I owe you a case of beer. I just can't imagine it happening. People, rightly or wrongly, are going to give Layton the benefit of the doubt. He has a helluva lot of goodwill in the bank. If people see this as a smear campaign, it's going to work in his favour.

          • His support will fall because of a lack of get out the vote and because his supporters are less likely to vote based on their demographics.

            I dunno if this will have that much of an impact either way other than taking him off message and robbing him of the chance to make further gains.

            Analysis Cats

          • Yeah, but aren't those the people who (rightly or wrongly) are going to give him the benefit of the doubt? They might change their mind if more damning, salacious details come out… but by then it'll be too late. If votes are going to move based on this, they're going to go in Layton's favour, IMHO, because a) he's well-liked and he's going to get the benefit of the doubt, and b) there are only 72 hours until the election, and people are going to (rightly or wrong) smell a smear-campaign rat, not abandon Layton for his alleged transgressions.

          • "On the other hand feminists will be disgusted. Women are a big part of the NDP base. Christian union members from mining, construction, and foresty are dippers too.
            People care if Jack's a good husband. If you're not a good husband you're probably not going to be a good PM. "

            "I dunno if this will have that much of an impact either way other than taking him off message and robbing him of the chance to make further gains. "

            Contradiction Cats

    • Jack's reply:

      It's unfortunate to see the smear campaigns starting in these last few days of the campaign,” he said. “Absolutely nothing wrong was done, there's no wrongdoing here, but yet the smears start.”

      “This is why a lot of people get turned off politics and don't want to get involved,” he added. “We'll keep pressing ahead with calling for real change in Ottawa, because frankly this is the kind of thing that a lot of people think is wrong with Ottawa politics today. So we're just going to keep up the campaign right through to the end and call for that change

      • kind of a silly statement when what 'was done' was done by a media outlet, not a political party. Parliament can change all it wants, but it can't change journalists.

        • "….a media outlet, not a political party."

          Hahahahaha!

        • We have no way of knowing the motivations of this unnamed retired police officer, or any party affiliations he may or may not have. Sun media may have reported it, but that doesn't mean a political party wasn't at some point involved in dredging this up.

  5. According to Coyne on twitter, Layton being caught naked in a whorehouse by a cop is not newsworthy. He decided to slag Sun News for daring to report the story. I'm a little skeptical that the public sees it that way. Maybe some people don't care much about prostitution one way or the other, but I'm pretty sure the story would have come out a long time ago if it were a Liberal or Conservative.

    • The story would have come out long ago no matter f**king what if it'd had any ounce of truth to it.

      • The truth is undisputed. It's been reported by the Star, the Sun, and Layton's wife Olivia Chow has come out and confirmed it happened. I suppose he may have just been naked in the wrong place at the wrong time, he wasn't actually caught in an illegal act.

        • It was confirmed that he went to a licensed massage parlour. Not even Sun mentioned whorehouses. The story confirmed is that Jack Layton got a massage 16 years ago.

          • They called it a "bawdy house." I think that's the same thing.

          • That was a massage parlour that was also known to deliver sexual acts. He was there at night, in a bedroom. The usual practise in those massage/bawdy houses is to give masturbation/hand job along with the massage for an extra fee. If he'd been caught in flagrante, instead of just on the bed, he would have been charged. A lot of chauvinism in Canada that this is dismissed, yet other politicians like ignatieff smeared into the ground for being a professor at harvard – disgusting.

          • You're making a lot of assumptions based solely on anonymous testimony from one person, a person who may or may not be politically motivated, recalling events 16 years after the fact. No charges were laid, either against Jack or anyone else at the establishment. Which points to a lack of evidence. Which means that the only thing we know to be true at this point is that 16 years ago, Jack patronized a massage establishment that was visited by police. That's it. That's all you've got.

    • Why single out Coyne? Every single journalist I've seen tweet about this is slagging Sun over it. Hell, they're collectively rolling around laughing about it as far as I've seen. Coyne himself seems to have found out about it when people on twitter started mocking SunTV about it and he asked what was up.

      • Coyne knew about this ahead of time ? Am I reading that right ?

        Coyne is very connected to Liberals. Mario Silva was on city council with Jack. Liberals are about to lose lots of downtown ridings to the NDP.

        I think we know who's been trying to float this story. LIBERALS!

        Will it backfire Cats ??

        • How did my explaining that Coyne found out about the Sun story when people started tweeting about it suggest that he "knew about this ahead of time"??? Does Coyne even own a DeLorean?

          I don't disagree that this could have been "leaked" by the Liberals, my understanding is that plenty of people in Toronto knew this story. The reason no one ever talked about it in the press is because WHY WOULD THEY?

          • Sorry I don't know twitter very well. I'm on his page and it says this:

            @glen_mcgregor … I guess I'll never make it as a reporter cause I just kinda forgot about it
            2 hours ago

            Which is in response to him asking what ppl would do if they got this tip.

            So is Coyne saying he got this tip awhile ago and kinda just forgot about it ?

            Cats ?

          • Reading's not his strong suit.. only slightly better than his comprehension.

          • Maybe because it's news. You know, like all the bs they report about Harper and Iggy

        • Oh come on!! The police said that this story was common knowledge in police circles in Toronto – for years. They also said it was known that Layton was anti-police, and the police disliked him because of it.

          It could have been the police, or it could have been Rob Ford – to help out Harper. It could have been anyone. Probably the cop who originally wrote the details down.

          • Sorry, where did it say Layton was anti-police? Source please

          • The cop who caught Jack naked is the source.
            Read the whole story and you might be able to comment on it.

          • Yes. Because we should take everything one anonymous ex-cop says as absolute gospel truth. And if you think that's a good idea, I have an email here from a very nice Nigerian prince who needs you to do a small favour for him.

          • I don't think that person qualifies yet as a credible source.

      • But most of the same media did not have trouble with the Toronto Star's fabricated "busty hookers".

        Or with all the gratuitous pictures of Carson's girlfriend, which were irrelevant to that story.

        • Yeah the media criticism on here tonight is very, very rich.

          Hypocrites much ?

        • Wasn't said girlfriend getting a plum contract offer or some such through him? Not quite irrelevant, right?

          • he's not referring to that busty hooker

          • And wasn't said Jack getting a plum something from the hooker?

    • If I read Coyne's twitter feed right it says he KNEW about the story already. Months ago. And ignored it!

      Coyne is a very plugged in Liberal.

      His sister ran against Jack Layton in a previous election. His niece is Trudeau's daughter for goodness sakes!

      I think its clear that the Liberals have been trying to leak this story for awhile now.

      Try to muscle out Jack Layton, unite the left, and sweep to victory.

      I'm surprised people think this is coming from the CPC.

      Surprise! Cats! We're voting! Young people are voting! Surprise! Vote mobs !!

      • My understanding is that ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE knew this story, much longer ago than months ago. I'm pretty sure that it never made headlines before today because no one but SunTV thought that "Jack Layton had a massage 16 years ago and had to talk to a cop about it" was "news".

        • Or because up until now Jack Layton hasn't been close to becoming PM ?

          Sorry but I find it newsworthy to know about Jack's character.

          Getting naked in a known bawdy house at 9.30 at night on the second floor of a dingy private apartment ? You're just asking for trouble, even if you are 100% innocent.

          Let the voters decide, just report the facts, not your job to filter or protect the public from info. More info the better! CATS!

          • You'd actually have to know it was a known bawdy house.

            So, this esthetics and massage outfit moved in next door at work. Ooh, I thought, I can get a facial during lunch! So I went over and talked to the woman there. (I thought she was wearing a very short dress, but I'm not a fashionista, so what do I know.) "Do you do facials?" Asked I. "No, not just now, although we hope to offer that soon" said she. Glancing down at the appointment book, I was pleasantly surprised to find it filled with mostly men. Actually, I didn't see anything but men's names, but I only caught a brief glance. Returning to my own office, I loudly complained, "What kind of asthetics place doesn't do facials?" It was only when the lawyer landlord put the notice on the door for breach of terms of use of the space, that I clued in.

            It's not that I'm so naive that I don't know what goes on, I just don't expect it where I am!

          • This place was part of a city wide raid just 2 weeks prior. Layton worked on these issues as a councillor. It was all over the news.

            You'd think it would at least come to mind eh ? Given his work on the issues, the 200 arrests, the big news, and all that jazz ?

            K Cats ?

          • Maybe, but I can't see a city councillor getting so close to this news that he'd know the address or anything. I mean, its probably a 'good, the police raided another one' and then forget all about it. A city councillor doesn't oversee every raid the police force does, after all. Unless you have some reason to think Layton took particular attention of this particular bawdy house raid? I haven't seen anything to support that assertion, I mean.

            But then, I don't care if he WAS at a known bawdy house for the purpose of doing what you do at a known bawdy house. The only point of concern would be the slave labour possibility. That would concern me, but would a client of a known bawdy house know the hired help wasn't 'hired' as it were?

          • "Sorry but I find it newsworthy to know about Jack's character"

            You're obviously still in the early stages of developing any character. I can see why more research is necessary.

          • Exactly.

        • One thing is for sure: the media went on a rampage about whether Harper pocketed a communion wafer. I'm absolutely certain that if a Conservative were caught naked in a whorehouse/bawdy house/massage parlor/whatever, then it would have been plastered all over the news for weeks, regardless of whether the story might stick with the public or not.

          • And yet, the rumours of Laureen having an affair with a female RCMP officer stay strangely off the front pages….. I guess your rights, the MSM is biased against the Conservatives.

          • I heard that from a hairdresser in Edmonton. I had already heard that they were separated, that she was having an affair with a bodyguard – and didn't believe it. This just sounds too preposterous to be true. I'm not a Harper fan, but find it just crazy.

          • Fox is not/did not report the gay relationship rumor about Maureen? They hate gay people, well actually they hate all people… except conservatives.

          • I suppose you have a right to spread slander about Mr. Harper if that is your style, —I take objection to you doing it under the banner of Proud Canadian.
            Maybe a change of style or an anon. name more suited to your style would be be appropriate.

          • Your mom named you Blue, because your dad's family name is Blue? Big difference between the Québécois and the Canadians from other province. Read the comments here and note that overwhelmingly people post comments under their real name. Here's an example, at this organization's French-speaking cousin:
            http://www2.lactualite.com/chantal-hebert/2011-04

            You anglos are such gutless scums. And my name is Loraine Lamontagne. I live in Mississauga. I have never felt that I should not freely express an opinion under my name. But now that I know that police officers can legally use the notes they take in the exercise of their duty to smear persons who haven't been accused of crime, I may reconsider.

          • I`m sorry to hear that you feel anglos are gutless scums. Do your neighbours in Mississuaga know you feel that way ?
            —-strange that you would sail over the anti-woman slander of PC and attack me for questionong PC`s style—but maybe that`s not so strange. Don`t be so bitter.

          • If my neighbours post here anonymously their approval of policers officers breaking the law for personal reasons, I will gladly call them anglo scums to their faces.

            I am not bitter, but reading comments here and on the Globe and Mail reminds me that the Ku Klux Klan is a group of white anglo saxons protestants. Unless of course they are blind and wearing the KKK costume, like David Chappelle.

          • OK, you`ve lost reality.

          • You anglos are such gutless scums.

            Comments like this make me strangely happy. I don't know why. They just do. :)

            As if I really needed yet one more reason to dismiss your posts as the ramblings of a lunatic. I do appreciate the clarity though.

          • Hey Blue, I'm the Proud Canadian not Harper, He's a proud american! I take offence when a republican operative tries to steal my country. and even more offence when conbots blindly follow and support him.

          • Hey, PC—are you one of those gutless anglos LL is referring to ?

          • You take offense to someone who supports the Conservatives, yet a poster who refers to anglos as gutless scums doesn't offend you? I would suggest that if you are offended by the political choices of others, that it just may be you who has the problem. By the way, Loraine Lamontagne thinks you're a gutless piece of scum. Though on matters of politics, the two of you would likely agree on much.

      • Reaching. The police didn't like him.

    • Only a week a go I could feel a palpable sense of glee radiating from the texts of many CPC suppourters on this site… Now every word radiates fear and desperation.

      I'd be lying if I said I don't get a certain sense of satisfaction from it. It is almost worth a NDP minority. It was funny when the Liberals saw their dreams dashed, but this is better still.

      • The Liberals and the BQ are about to get crushed.

        The CPC couldn't be happier. Right now we're focued on riding the vote splits, getting out the vote, and winning that majority by micro-targeting winabble ethnic ridings.

        Serious Cats

        • Good to see you acknowledge who's paying you finally.

        • Huh- so you are a CPC member. Interesting.

          Thanks for clearing that up.

    • Oh s_c_f, if only you knew how routinely these things happen with politicians of all stripes. The media don't report them because there's usually no evidence of wrongdoing and to do so would get you sued. …as Sun may be about to find out. And frankly, who even cares if politicians are getting a little action on the side? If only Conservatives were so keen on transparency when it came to the job we elect them for.

  6. Good Lord can Sun media sink any lower. Not a fan of Layton's or his party but this is hitting way below the belt.

    • It has been reported by the Toronto Star as well, that well known right-wing rag.

      • Not a fan of Layton's or his party but this is hitting way below the belt.

        And will undecideds associate it's release as a Harperian low blow tactic?

        Poisonous.

        • Except odds are the Liberals released this info.

          Just Sayin' Cats.

          • It is the sort of bone-headed move that sounds like it might have come from the Liberal brain trust, you're right.

          • Layton is the one who went to a massage-parlour-bawdy house at 9:30 at night – not the Liberals. Or the Cons. Or the police. Layton takes responsibility for his own actions, I would hope.

            It's not going to look good for a Prime Minister in Canada. After all, this isn't Italy.

        • The Star's reaction is somewhat sleazy – but would Sun Media take such rumours from Liberal sources?

          Harper's going to wear this because it's so believable that his minions would push this story. It's the kind of thing they would do.

          • Harper doesn't have Toronto connections from that period.

            Liberals do.

            Cats at play, mice away

          • Fantino was chief of police for pete sake. This came from an ex cop. You figure it out

          • He was chief AFTER this happened.

            Math Cats.

          • How does that preclude him from acquiring the information? I'm sure he has a portfolio full of juicy tidbits gleaned from police files.

          • So he had no police connections before then? That'd be… unusual.

          • Cats, you really are mentally deranged. Why do we continue to feed this troll?

          • Harper is from Toronto.

          • I thought he was American. You're confusing me.

          • Jack said he was there, his wife said he was there.
            Nothing to do with Liberals or conservatives.

    • I don't see how Sun can be faulted given that the facts of the story have been widely confirmed; it's the news organizations that kept this hidden that I wonder about. It's up to each individual to decide what to make of it given their own sense of right and wrong (I don't have any problem with paid sexual activity)

  7. "doesn't have to be true, just plausible"
    Ah what a slippery slope we are headed down courtesy of these miserable miscreants.
    Beelzebub has a devil set aside for thee, Mr. Harper (& Mr. Flanagan et all)

    • It's true, the story has been confirmed by numerous sources.

      I also find it strange you blame the Cons. When the CBC attacks Harper, do you feel that the Liberals are calling the shots?

      • I'd stick a sock in it brother. It's disgraceful and not worth defending.

        • Stick the sock up your a**.

          • You seem angry. Would it cheer you up if I offered to talk about abortion?

          • Only if it was you being aborted.

          • Ladies and gentlemen, the voter base of the Conservative Party of Canada has spoken!

            Don't stop there, you're so shy! Come out of your shell a little, tell us what you really have inside your heart!

            I've got a fresh box of kleenex with your name on it…

          • Wow..both you and Cats seem to be having a meltdown.

          • You're back!!! and its so nice to see your old self again. I thought you were against abortion? make up your mind!!!!

  8. Stephen Harper better break out the Solarcaine, this looks like it could be a bad Sun burn.

    • Not defending Sun TV AT ALL, but wrt the pun? hiss, boo!</>

  9. This comment was deleted.

    • Nope, you're smarter than this Chet. It's disgraceful, period. Stop defending this behaviour. Take a stand for decency. There were no charges, no wrong doing, no nothing. It's a smear and it's wrong.

      Period.

      Black and white.

      • Doesn't a "smear" have to at least be…oh…I dunno…untrue?

        • Well Geez, there was a cop there. They took Layton's details. They never pressed charges. You'd think if there was any evidence they might've done that.

      • "Soiled Kleenex" is the new "Busty Hookers".

        Can I just ask you, even if you have nothing against guys getting a rub and tug happy ending, do you honeslty believe on a personal level that nothing sexual took place ?

        Just your personal opinion. I know nothing is been proven either way. There's a lot of circumstancial evidence. Nothing about this seems fishy to you ?

        Be honest, reasonable, and non-partisan when you answer please.

        Mice day

    • Relax.

      Breathe.

      Calm yourself.

    • The story said the girl was in her 20s.

      • which is maybe why Layton walked . . .

  10. Harper decides to start wearing a sweater vest and we have in depth coverage and analsis, digging and prodding about what it could all mean from a "manipulating the public" stand point.

    Layton gets caught in a bawdy house, and as he's a "progressive", the media is wholly incurios. Worse, they circle the wagons, shouting down those who even dare to question the "I was just getting an….ahem…massage" exuse.

    Now…onto more pressing matters deserving of headline grabbing news….did Harper actually eat the communion wafer?????

    • On Coyne's twitter he says he'd rather be caught naked in a whore house than work for Sun TV news.

      Really ?

      You'd rather cheat on your wife, disrespect, abuse, and take advantage of a vulnerable woman, than hold down a normal job at a news agency ?

      REALLY ?

      Weird Cats

      • Get it right.

        He said "I'd rather be caught naked in a massage parlour than fully clothed working for SunNews."

        Which makes you a liar, of course, but more importantly makes you someone who doesn't get the best part of the joke.

        Desperate Cats, who was utterly absent from these boards recently, but has found the time to post a lot today, which isn't at all suspicious

        • Zing, i was wondering about that myself, actually.

        • the conbots were missing because they were meeting and being briefed on this Layton smear. They had to be told how to respond and to 'hit hard and hit often' thats all.

        • And what does this have to with Jack admitting he was naked when he got his "massage"

          • I got a shiatsu last week …..was naked….lots of people were naked last week..can you handle it

        • But what if one is caught naked in a bawdy house while on assignment for Sun News? Wouldn't that be still worse? These events to not have do be mutually exclusive. Coyne is demonstrating an unusual lack of rigour on this one.

  11. Welcome to the big time Mr. Layton. Sleazy sleazy Conbots.

    • Whether Harper ate a communion wafer: headline after headline "important news"

      Whether Jack was having sex with underage Asian prostitutes….not worthy of coverage,

      So says our ever balanced "progessive" media.

      • She was over 20 according to the police notes.

        Lots of underage activity going on there. Smuggled girls from Vietnam, Thailand. But the girl Jack was caught with was definetly of age.

        And as far as we know he's only been there just this once for a massage.

        So don't throw around "underage".

        If this is true Jack Layton is a big time creep who doesn't respect women AT ALL.
        That's enough. Don't try to paint him as a pedophile w/o proof.

        Facts Cats

        • The fact that it was an investigation involving underage prostitutes is very true.

          The fact that Jack was in a bawdy house that potentially had child prostitutes…kind of important.

          Did he walk by little girls on the way to getting his massage from the "of age" 20 year old?

          The "hey I didn't touch that young one over there" defense may be solid for a criminal defence, but this is a guy who wants to lead our country.

          Is that our standard? He walked past the child prostitutes? "I didn't see nothing man"?

          I'm not saying he's a pedophile. But don't dare suggest that just because he didn't utilize one, that his patronizing that disgusting place doesn't reflect awfully poorly on him.

          • Ok that's different.

            I think Jack Layton is the biggest hypocrite in human history right now. He says he's all about fighting for the vulnerable

            These were human smuggling victims being forced into sex acts against their will. Some of them were underage.

            Its vile, vile stuff. I'm glad we have CPC MPs like Joy Smith and Jason Kenney who have been working on this issue to try and protect women.

            Lets be 100% clear on this:

            If a woman is being forced to work in a brothel, whether you're paying or not, whether you know about it or not, its not prostitution its RAPE.

            Disgusted and dissapointed Cats.

          • I'm expecting you conbots to start saying Jack was smuggling asian girls next. No..I mean he owned the bawdy house, yeah that's it, that's the ticket. he owned it and he, he smuggles women, yeah that's the ticket, he's a smuggling women bawdy house owner, that's it. Sounds good, let's go with that one.

  12. Someone has already pointed out that Mario Silva was on the TO city council with Jack Layton back then.

    You do know that the NDP is close to taking a bunch of downtown Liberal ridings right ??

    Why assume this helps the CPC ? My understanding is that they were thrilled with vote splitting in Ontario.

    Mice day!

  13. I was going to vote conservative but the heck with that. Jack , I never thought I would vote NDP , but now I am for the first time ever . What a disgusting attack on a man who is facing Cancer. Time to clean house in Ottawa.

    And it is not like the Cons don't have their own issues with questionable places, and I am sure Vic Toews knew darn well where he was going when he was there…… go see http://theorangerod.blogspot.com for the Vic Toews Bathhouse story.

    • I've seen comitted NDP supporters all over the internet making this false claim. Really you're now going to vote Jack Layton over this ?

      Media criticism is THAT important to you ? More so than actual issues involving this country ? Eye rolling !!!

      Hint: Next time leave out the Cancer bit. He's 100% healthy now. And its just clumsy and desperate. Stop being so transparent and obvious in pushing the NDP line that this will win them sympathy votes.

      Lols Cats!

      • Inappropriate and baseless claims. Stop.

        • Yes, Marie should stop with the Mobying.

        • I agree. It is a savage insult to suggest that anyone is a long time NDP supporter. Cats was way out of line on that one, and owes Marie an apology.

      • Media criticism? Fox is not media they are conservative campaigners.

      • I've seen this comment around a lot too. Dippers are worried and rightly so. The feminst vote tends not to go to guys who expolit immigrants in hand job places. But your hard core Dipper won't care and will buy into the "smear" line. This would have gone away if Layton and his fanatics hadn't played it so badly

        • Nah, I'm a feminist. And I've worked as a masseuse. So I'm extra pissed at this sort of smear – the intimation that contact in a private room between a customer and a client MUST be sexual is so frustrating. It is based on an outdated puritanism. Feminists should be extra annoyed at this attempt to harness outdated sexual ideas for political gain.

    • Marie, I hate to tell you this, but just because it is on the internet, doesn't make it true. That is a blog. If that were true, it would have been front page news. . .

      • "If that were true, it would have been front page news. . . "

        Only the front of a Sun rag, and only if he wasn't a Con.

        • Did you read Marie's post, and understand what we were talking about?

          Dolt.

    • I was going to vote NDP, now I am going to vote Liberal,

  14. Progressive media rule number 1:

    If a "progressive" politician makes a statement or denial, whatever the freakishly suspicious circumstances, it is to be taken at face value and left alone, never to be questione again.

    If a "progressive" levels an accusation against a conservative, denials of that conservative are to be cast aside as supicious and the matter is to be prodded and investigated to the ends of earth.

    • Sadly, this is based on experience.

      Remember Fortier and Income Trusts? Your guy is the one that brought this lack of trust on you.

  15. I was going to vote NDP, but not any more, no sir, after this disgusting revelation I am going to go back to the sleaze-miesters themselves and vote LIberal. I am so proud of them for promoting this story and thank goodness they did I could have been voting for a massage abuser.

    • Welcome back, Realistic, it's been a few days since we've been treated to a visit from the CPC war room. Byrne must have released the hounds tonight.

      • Liberals were behind this. Its good that people are getting the message out. Don't let Harper get blamed for the smear job.

        Cats away !

        • Shouldn't you be doing something useful ? It seems the Sun offices are full of
          rodents … go forth and do God's work.

        • So now it's a smear job? A moment ago you were tell us how true it all was.
          Look what happens when you just say whatever is convenient, with complete disregard for the truth.

          Contradiction Cats

      • I think Realistic was writing satire.

        • Indeed. It's late. I need to go to bed.

    • I completely believe this post.

  16. Ugh.

    MYL's 1st reaction: desperate media gotcha, disgusting, not a good first week for Sun.

    MYL's 2nd reaction: therapeutic massage, everyone relax, why are we even on about this.

    MYL's 3rd reaction: even if there was a little extra, consenting adults, etc., etc.

    • Then MYL read the story. Known house of ill repute, cops stumbled upon then-municipal politician. A few other details that are more-than-suggestive. "Masseuse" who can barely speak English. Uh-oh. All of a sudden MYL worries the consenting adult part might not apply so easily to the woman in this story.

      If this is all bogus, Quebecor deserves to lose a huge chunk of its massive fortune over this.

      If the details, especially as very suggestively worded in that report, are NOT bogus, what on earth took so long for this to come out?

      • She was in her 20's, that part is clear.

        Consent, on the other hand, is at question when you've been smuggled to a different country and are forced to have sex with men.

        Best fishes

        • I can't believe you're giving this stuff away for free. You should selling it to the Sun – "Twentysomething smuggled to Canada and forced to have Sex with Jack Layton"

        • I love the assumption that an asian woman working as a masseuse is necessarily an immigrant, and necessarily exploited, and necessarily a prostitute. Good game, misogynist morons everywhere!

      • I've had some mixed reactions as well. For the most part, I would not care. Then I think about the fact that this guy might end up running the country.
        Heck, even though Layton was not caught in an illegal act, surely the story qualifies as something of interest.

        • Uh, well, no. If there was nothing illegal, there is NOTHING of interest. The government doesn't belong in the bedrooms of the nation, and the voters don't belong in the bedrooms of the politicians, either.

          The innuendo coming out of Sun Media tonight does not discount the "nothing illegal" part, though. Which will make me VERY pissed at them if there's nothing to it.

          • No, I saw the Sun video, they never made any accusations of an illegal act. There was an investigation into the massage parlor, and the cop at the scene found Layton naked with a masseuse.

          • "Layton was cautioned by police and released without being charged."

            "In a letter from his lawyer, Layton recalls "being advised by police at the time that he did nothing wrong."

            "In the end, they came to the conclusion they shouldn't charge him.

            If we had barged in and he was engaged in a sex act and we had plainly saw it, then it would have been a different story."

            "The policemen warned the councillor about the dangers of hanging out in suspected bawdy houses that could be run by Asian triads."

            The story is about facts. The only suggestive sentence is the one about the sex act, but that is not an accusation, it's a simple hypothetical statement.

          • "that COULD be run by…" Not *was*? Not *is*? The Sun is very smart in making the most outrageous statements that can dance on the razor-blade of a lawsuit without getting cut.

          • Well, they had to crawl to Soros a while ago after priinting Levant's lies about Soros. They're not all that smart.

          • Take a look at this story.
            http://www.torontosun.com/2011/04/29/suspected-ba

            Sun has been very careful to state only the facts. Take a look at those facts. Yes, it's possible Layton was there for a massage.

      • On the delay in this story getting out – a key ingredient is Sun News. The other news stations would never air this story (they have, rightfully, aired Jack's response). It could also be that nobody has had much call to smear Jack Layton, or at least, the risk was not justified by the reward till today.

      • I believe Warren Kinsella has the best take on this. And that isn't something I find occassion to say very often. But, he used to be a crime reporter, both in Calgary and in Ottawa. He knows how these stories get filed and reported – or not. His blog post on this offers a unique inside perspective, and is well worth the read. Unlike most anything else written about this issue.

    • Human smuggling victims do NOT consent.

      They're non-citizens who are being forced into things by gangs who bring them here to work in brothels. This young women in her early 20's was from mainland China.

      Ok ? If anything happened in that room it was rape.

      Concerned Cats.

      • I'll bet you're concerned.

        • Have you followed Joy Smith's private members bill on human smuggling ?

          Why does it surprise you that CPC members are concerned about the exploitation of women and the issue of human smuggling ?

          Oh sorry. GO back to your stereotype that we're all heartless corporate ogres who don't care about social issues.

          K Cats ?

          • Who in heavens name said anything about human smuggling? Newsflash: most sex trade workers weren't smuggled here. Not even the Asian ones.

          • She was from mainland China and barely spoke any english.

            you kidding me ?

            Cats!

          • Try visiting a city sometime. You might learn a few things and not sound so silly here.

          • For someone who is usually pretty concerned about "facts" being reported in the media, you sure are making a lot of assumptions about this story with out regard to the actual facts being reported in it.

        • IF the Sun Media account is accurate, yes, I am concerned. If I am in a massage parlor, whether or not I am there for extras, and my masseuse can barely speak the language, then my coercion / exploitation alarm bells are deafening.

          And that is the sort of innuendo Sun Media has left for us to chew on this weekend. If they are deliberately misleading about that innuendo, Layton deserves to become majority shareholder of a vast media empire after he sues their butts off.

          • Since Olivia Chow has essentially confirmed it happened, and Sun has indicated their source as being one of the cops involved, I think Sun News has nothing to worry about. All they did was report the events, which apparently involved Layton being discovered by a cop naked with a masseuse in a location suspected of illegal bawdy behaviour.

          • Yeah, except they added way more details than that. So they'd better be reliably right, or they deserve to be worried.

          • "If I am in a massage parlor, whether or not I am there for extras, and my masseuse can barely speak the language, then my coercion / exploitation alarm bells are deafening."

            Even if your wife is a Chinese immigrant?

          • My mistake, that article doesn't mention "shiatsu" specifically.

          • Indeed. And, she wouldn't need to speak English, as Jack speaks Mandarin.

          • Yes, even if my wife is a Chinese immigrant. Now, I suppose if I spoke Mandarin and so did she, I might be proud enough to try it out with her. But, regardless of any of my secondary languages, if this lady couldn't speak English, I should be a little worried about the proprietors of this, um, "community clinic."

          • Why? If their clientele is predominantly Chinese, why should her difficulty with English be a concern?

          • Who ever said the clientele was predominantly Chinese?

            And EVEN IF that is the case, I am just saying upthread that I myself would be very concerned about how this lady came to be, um, employed. I reiterate, the possibility of coercion / exploitation is really concerning, here.

            But then I am not the type to be in such a place to begin with.

          • Why would you think that? Solely because she can't speak English very well? I think you're skating very close to making some pretty prejudicial statements here.

          • Yup. Call me prejudiced. For fearing that something might be up if the young allegedly-licensed massage therapist in Ontario can't speak English. It's downright racist to fear that such a young lady might have been smuggled in, and could be stuck in this, um, occupation, against her will. It's my obvious hatred of yellow skin that makes me wonder whether this person's papers are locked away somewhere until she "pays off" her debt to some criminal creep.

            Busted.

          • That's an awful lot to assume simply based on her proficiency with the English language.

          • Do you get the difference between an assumption and a suspicion/concern? Maybe you don't…

          • That's not an awful lot to cause suspicion/concern then…

          • Well, when you're an ignorant racist pr!ck like me, I suppose, you might wonder if there is a connection between the worldwide trafficking of young women to become involuntary sex workers, and the fact that my nudge-nudge-wink-wink "masseuse" can't speak the language of the majority of fellow Ontarians.

            Nice to hear (?!?) that non-prejudiced RSA wouldn't come close to wondering about that.

          • Of course I never called you a racist prick or even prejudiced. I said you were coming close to making some pretty prejudicial statements.

            And I stand by that. 'Cause you are.

          • Is that because reports of the worldwide trafficking of young women to become involuntary sex workers are all lies? Or is it because it couldn't happen In Canada? or maybe just Ontario? or maybe just Toronto? or maybe just in that neighbourhood? Where is my jumping-to-suspicion tripping me up, please?

            And who, pray tell, is it I am coming close to being prejudiced against? The young lady in question? For fearing that she might be an exploited victim? For actually caring that she might be living a life in terror and coercion?

            This is turning into a very bizarre conversation, particularly since I am hoping Layton sues Quebecor to bits if they are exaggerating this story…

          • Sigh….you have no idea about the particulars of this one specific young woman. You don't even know if she was engaged in any nefarious acts – was she charged with anything?

            And yet you've decided that since she's not proficient in the English language then it's extremely likely that she's a victim of sex trafficking.

          • Sigh right backatcha… this entire conversation is predicated on:

            "If I am in a massage parlor, whether or not I am there for extras, and my masseuse can barely speak the language, then my coercion / exploitation alarm bells are deafening."

            It is an expression of caution and concern for the young lady. It does not require any nefarious acts, or criminal charges. And I would hope the victims of this coercive criminal enterprise are not the ones brought up on charges, anyways.

            My alarm bells are ringing. The thought has entered my mind. Somehow "extremely likely" has entered yours.

            Please take the last word opportunity. I am long past sick of this conversation.

    • Yeah ? All of this is already out there ? So what.

      Emily was making it sound like there was new stuff. If there was we'd already know.

      Facts Cats.

      • What other sleazy things has Harper done with the advice of his policy advisor the convicted thief? How much more taxpayers' money have the Conservatives stolen and misused?

        • Stolen ?

          I think you're getting confused. It was the Liberals. People went to jail. Millions are still missing.

          Its why nobody in Quebec votes Liberal anymore, k ?

          Cats!

          • liberals were not the only politicians that stole money, remember Mulrony anyone? Fox News North is here to stay and we can thank Harper for that. I watched them yesterday and it was disgusting…so…back to our Ottawa bureau…what are you hearing? Well I'm hearing that John, thats his real name, was caught in a Bawdy house now over to our Toronto bureau…what are you hearing? Well I'm hearing that John, thats his real name, was caught in a Bawdy house now over to our Calgary bureau…what are you hearing? Well I heard the same thing…now lets bring in our expert panel… Jack layton got a massage and it took us 16 years to get a hard on! lol

  17. Is it so uncommon to be naked for a massage? My wife does when she goes for hers… Seems to be the way it is done, no?

    All the same, the Sun had better be prepared to defend this in court. You note in the article they never infer anything. Every detail is supplied by the (anonymous) ex-cop. So they will fall back on just reporting what they had reason to believe was true – which is why (I guess) the NDP lawyer is alleging malice and not libel?

    • "Is it so uncommon to be naked for a massage?"

      Apparently so. Real Canadians® wear a 'Canada' jacket, tube socks and proper, starched y-fronts. Even the men.

    • He's a sleaze bag and a hypocrite-he has been since he was on Toronto council using limousines and living in subsidized housing.

      P.S. Keep an eye on your wife and her "massages".

      • jeeze…..it was mixed housing and Jack and Olivia paid the full price….check it out it's true……Every massage my sister has gone too she has been naked …it's just the way some do it…….Olivia made the appointment…….

        SO how do you feel about Carson and his escort in the PMO residance… partying?

        • And Carson's fiancees, while providing colourful icing on the cake, are less important than the other scandals such as Carson lobbying the federal government while working for the same government, and getting millions of taxpayers' money to provide free PR for filthy Big Oil instead of using it for clean energy research:
          http://thetyee.ca/News/2011/04/27/CarsonOilSands/

      • Sorry Guest. THe housing co-op story was garbage from the beginning. A housing co-op means the higher-earners pay more and subsidize the lower earners also living there. It's a completely legal arrangement and completely above board. J & O were paying the upper end of the rent scale. Which means they were actually subsidizing other tenants, not the other way around. I'm a Con-tarded Con-bot by the way, so I have no vested interest in defending Layton.

  18. Chet, Cats, and Realistic, all back in the same thread at the same time, imagine that. So this is Byrne's solution to the orange wave? Wow.

    I was anticipating a Harper minority government on Monday, but this transparent smear is so egregious that I now think they've put Layton over the top. If there were pictures, with Layton surrounded by underage prostitutes, this would work in the CPC's favour, but relying on one anonymous source? It's so transparent as to be completely nauseating to even the most obtuse voter.

    If Duceppe wants to stem the bleeding in Quebec, he would need to come out against this smear very quickly. It's the only way he could benefit from Layton's moment of vulnerability without looking like a shrill harpy.

    • Mario Silva was on the council with Layton.
      Well connected Liberal Andrew Coyne was fed this story already.
      Liberals are terrified of losing downtown Toronto seats to the NDP. (TO STAR ENDORSES LAYTON)

      You do the math buddy. This caught the CPC by surprise.

      I knew Ignatieff was angry and desperate and just all around imploding. But this is your hail mary pass ? THIS ?

      Liberals only winning 35 seats is now possible.

      Cats

      • This would never be my Hail Mary pass; I think this is so utterly transparent as to border on ridiculous.

        But I certainly grant that the Liberals are terrified of losing some TO and Montreal seats, so it's possible they leaked it to the Sun. If that's the case, of course, I expect Harper to be the stand-up guy and come out saying that there is no place for such smear jobs in Canadian elections to distance himself from any fall-out.

        • And of course, that would be credible.

          • If not credible, it would at least be something. Four straight years of negative advertising has labelled the CPC with a pretty strong reputation for this sort of thing.

            If, indeed, they were not responsible for this they would have a huge job to do in order to convince the public otherwise.

          • I'd rather Harper just ignore it all together.

            Or use it as a teachable moment to further our anti-human smuggling agenda.

            Cats!

          • See, the problem, Cats, is that I want to believe you that this leak could have occurred from another party, like the Liberals, Bloc, or even the NDP (for some twisted reason), but I'm stumped by the fact that in every single forum I visit the only people pounding the message about Layton's assumed indiscretion are always advocating for the CPC. Why no Liberal shills harping on this?

            The more and more I think about this, the more it still seems like a CPC 'leak'.

          • You could be right. But are you aware it was a Liberal source shopping this thing around a couple of years ago?

            If not, you should check out what Jonathan Kay at the Post has tweeted this weekend.

          • Yes, I read Kay's report after I wrote this. While Kay didn't name any sources, or provide any proof of that accusation, I could not dismiss the possibility. Indeed, I had already decided for myself that it was quite possible that the leak come from the Liberals.

            That said, however, I've also stated that even if the CPC was pure as snow in this no one will believe they didn't have a hand in it, most notably due to their past negative advertising blitzes. 24 months of carpet-bombing Ignatieff tends to bias people's first impressions. I believe I read Coyne calling it 'karma', or something similar.

      • So why is it only sleazy Cons trading on it here?

      • The fact that the Conbots are replying with specific allegations that smear thethe Liberals with a link to this smear tells me that the Conservatives are behind it.

        Cats and rest just get their talking points from conbot headquarters, they can't think on their own. which meas that someone is pushing out these argumetns to them (Mario Silva? who tf is that? I don't know, but I know who Julian Fantino is.)

        Coyne's sister dated Trudeau for a while. Guess that makes him a died in the wool Liberal, then, eh bunky?

    • Layton's wife backed up that something happened, and was worried enough to try to head this off at the pass. That says something. . .

      • I know this is hard for some people to believe, but sometimes–just sometimes–people respond to allegations with something called the 'truth', instead of just hiding from the question. It has been known in the past to sometimes reduce the impact of a potential issue.

        • I agree – it could be either. Just seemed desperate to try to stop or bury it as soon as possible. If no wrong was done, then no need to be worried.

          • In other words, "Damned if you do, and damned if you don't"

          • maybe. Or maybe they could have waited until asked, and treated it like it wasn't news at all?

          • They were asked. This was their response. Kady O'Malley said as much on her twitter.

          • I didn't read O'Malley, I was going off the above story:

            "This evening, Olivia Chow, the NDP MP and wife of Jack Layton, has released the following statement in response to a story aired by Sun media."

            "We are the solicitors for the New Democratic Party of Canada.

            Our client has obtained information that one or more of your newspapers is considering running a story for tomorrow's edition"

            This, to me, sounds preemptive.

    • Decrying the incident first could look suspicious though – like the old saying goes: "he who smelt it, dealt it".

    • If there were pictures, with Layton surrounded by underage prostitutes….

      And you object to my description of Bernard Lord in a cat suit???? My God man, I need to sleep tonight!!!!

  19. The murky scent of partisan flop sweat has deranged the internets.

    • I was beginning to wonder if our wild ride on this campaign was almost over, but here we are, in for another 48 hours of fun! Place yer bets, people!

  20. "Is is so uncommon to be naked for a massage"?

    In a bawdy house?

    Being stormed by police for engaging in underage prostituttion?

    One that advertises "shiatsu" massages (urban dictionary for "hand job")?

    I'm sure its fairly common…in…ahem…certain neighborhoods.

    • So you know which registered massage parlours are bawdy houses? Good for you.

      By the way, he was in a "suspected" bawdy house. You better believe if they had managed to shut it down, that owuld have been in the article. Maybe the police were wrong, eh?

      Here are the actual facts from the article:

      Jack Layton got a massage from a mid-20's woman in a massage parlour that the police suspected was a bawdy house, but turned out not to be, as they did not press any charges.

      Is that summary incorrect?

      • 200 arrests were made city wide just 2 weeks prior.

        The police were following up by returning to that location.

        IT was well publicized and well known that these places involved prostitution.

        At the very least Layton showed shockingly bad judgement, at the very most he took advantage of a very vulnerable young woman.

        Disgusted and dissapointed Cats

        • Did the police arrest anyone here? Did they charge the massage parlour? Was Layton with an underage woman? Had they made 200 arrests at this massage parlour or at different ones in the area?

          Please provide proof. As I say above the facts are clear. He got a massage. The police showed up. They turned out (apparently) to be wrong about what was going on. And the police are apparently chicken/bullies because they would libel someone without giving their name.

          Very professional cops by the way to give their notes over to the press. I wonder if this ex-cop was jealous of the ones who got G-20 duty

          • In the police notes it describes a Red/Green lighting system used in brothels.

            The light is switched from Green to Red when cops show up. Green means sex is a go, Red means stop.

            Read the actual story. Cats!

          • Because Jack wasn't charged did not mean the police were wrong. The fact that he was a politician might have worked in his favor, as they would only proceeded if he had been caught red handed (ouch), or with an underage girl. . .

        • Wait, a vulnerable young woman? I'm not far off from 25 and don't consider myself a young woman. I worked as a masseuse and I was NEVER "vulnerable." It sounds like the same old paternalistic crap from the CPC…

  21. Oh yeah, but if it was 'busty hookers' near a Conservative MP then well – let's ride it out for all it is worth.

    If Jack is in favor of prostitution and his wife is ok with it, then just say so – just wave your cane up there and say, " Those banks aren't gettin away with nothing when I am in charge!!!!, and everybody deserves a raise!!! and ………I love a good rub and tuuuuuuuuggggg!!!" – Woooo Hooo!!!

    • So why haven't we heard about busty hookers with Conservatives then, Tony? Are you going to tell me it's never happened?

  22. I would like to point out that this retired police officer declined to provide his name. From my point of view, if you can't stand by what you say then you have no honor and your words lose their credibility. People are often braver in sharing slander when no one can point the finger back to them.

    • They have his original notes from back then …

      All of this happened. Nobody is claiming anything. You draw your own conclusions, the facts are being provided to you.

      Just the facts Cats

      • "Facts". Wow. What a high honor to bestow upon the Sun.

      • How did they obtain those? Are policemen's notes available to the public?

        • No, no, it's fax! The Sun has the fax! They just can't spell fax correctly!

    • How is this slander exactly?

      • I think it is more libel (written, not spoken)

      • slan·der   

        1.
        defamation; calumny: rumors full of slander.
        2.
        a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report: a slander against his good name.

        I call what the Sun has written slander. Though if you believe differently that is your right and I respect it.

        • Truth is a defense.

        • Under the law, defamation in written form is libel, and defamation in spoken form is slander. Both are contained in the term defamation. Defamation is communication intended to result in hatred, ridicule, or contempt. There are two categories of defamation, civil and criminal. The victim of civil defamation can sue for damages; the perpetrator of criminal defamation can be charged with a crime and serve jail time. For more information, ask a lawyer.

          • Cool. :) learned something new today (not sarcasm).

    • pretend it was true, and that he had provided his name. Would you feel safe living next door to him? Your house would have burnt.

  23. A sick, disgusting smear. True gutter journalism.

  24. I notice that the Conservative posters here are startlingly familiar with massage parlour terminology and etiquette,

    Applying the burden of proof argument employed by them and the Sun chain, I of course accuse Chet and Cats and Tony of being frequent visitors to illegal bawdy houses

    • And they all have the same talking points, too. It's like they've been synchronized. An enterprising journalist might do a quick media scan to figure out just how synchronized the comment response was with the speaking notes, and determine if the war room had messaging prepared in advance so that they could instantly bombard social media the moment it was published.

      • Yeah, I am in the war room right now having a Bunga Bunga Party

        • Also Noob, determining just how I "synchronized" my comments with other posters sounds alot like surveillance – and hey fellow that's a hashtagfail!

      • The fact that the Conbots are so in synch on this proves to me that the Cons were behind this, not the Liberals.

        • I think that it was the communists.

          • Look under your bed.

      • I think you're overdoing it a bit. I've been accused of uttering conservative "talking points" a million times. I've never once been the recipient of talking points, or any other "marching orders" from the Tory war room or anywhere else. While Chet and others are blindly partisan to the point where it's just embarrassing to a conservative supporter like myself, I believe the "talking points" accusation is baseless. It has become it's own talking point.

        • I'll readily admit that I was a little irrational when I wrote that. I haven't given Layton a second thought in the years I've been in Ottawa, but I was definitely caught up in the excitement of actually having an exciting election and was quite perturbed when it looked like someone was going to throw a wrench in it with an ancient smutty story.

          I'm calmer now.

  25. I have no moral objection to prostitution, but this is still going to be fun to watch.

    Keep pounding that "it'll only help him win bigger" meme, guys. You're going to be fairly stunned Monday night – a lot of those late-changing swing votes in the middle that have been flirting with the NDP will more likely be squicked out by the allegation than outraged at the dirty pool.

    • Sorry, avr, you and I agree probably more than we disagree. But there is nothing fun about this.

      • Yup. I fear the worst possible result from this idiocy. As Kinsella said, this is obviously from one party or another. And there will be hell to pay when they find out who was behind it. Kinsella was smart enough to avoid speculating on which of Layton's opponents it might be. I hope it was the Liberals. But I suspect otherwise. Simply because the Tories have traditionally had the problem of allowing just a few too many nutters into their war rooms over the years. The Jean Chretien face ad in 1993, and the "Paul Martin supports child molesting" fax in 2004 come to mind.

  26. Wow this is right out of the Republican play book. A sex scandal! I feel the ghost of Monica Lewinsky awakening.

    If Harper seriously wants to go down this road, he'd better hope that all the escorts around Ottawa are Conservatives!

    • You cannot possibly be saying that Harper's ethical crew have ever committed any sort of lapse?

      In any event this ISN'T a sex scandal.

      This is "Man gets massage – in wrong place at wrong time" .. The article says nothing different. The masseuse was mid-20's. The Police laid no charges, against either Jack or the massage parlour. They were… imagine that … wrong!

      • The place was a known bawdyhouse. Jack was there at 9:30 in the evening. He was found lying on his back, buck naked. He says he didn't know the place was a bawdyhouse. Either he's lying or he's an idiot. Which is it?

        • Who knew it to be a bawdy house?

          • The police raiding it.

          • Did they? Shouldn't they have done something about it?

            In any event, granting your argument (which I don't) how does that make it common knowledge?

          • Shouldn't they have done something about it?

            They shut it down, along with 25 others, and laid 300 charges.

            how does that make it common knowledge?

            "it was a lucrative business, the girls were pulling in $600 to $700 for a couple hours work,"
            http://www.torontosun.com/2011/04/29/suspected-ba

            "The guy who ran the place controlled traffic with a red and green light system from the second floor where he could see down a stairway to the street."

            "The setup was amazing … when the police showed up, the manager flicked on the red light switch — which told the girls to pretend it was a legitimate business — rubs only — keep it clean and the green light meant they could perform sexual services,"

  27. Yeah. This was a pretty bad smear. I'm sure if the situation were reversed and it were Harper, respectable journalism outlets like CBC, CTV, the Star, and the Canadian Press would have never reported it. I'm sure Wherry wouldn't have blogged about it either, out of respect for the profession.

    Yeah…I'd bet a lot of money on that.

    • Me too.

      Surely Bernier's girlfriend, or those busty hookers, or Jaffer's private life, or Dhalla's nannies, or Harper's communion wafer, or Lisa Raitt's audio-taped private conversation, or …..

      Sure none of those things was ever mentioned in the pages of Maclean's – out of respect for their private life.

    • I think the response to a story involving presumed marital infidelity was pretty much universally despised, if memory serves. Once in a while, the entire spectrum does actually condemn a story irrespective of ideology.

      But your point is taken.

    • Yeah, ask Norman Spector how his article about Harper's marriage went over…

      • Yeah. Of course. Because it was a rumour that couldn't be confirmed. Can you spot the difference?

        • Actually, no. I can't.

        • So what's the name of this purported retired police officer who is allegedly making these claims? Why is he too big a coward to come forward? He must be a Conservative.

          • Could he possibly be running as a conservative candidate?

          • I'm sure the OPP will figure it out.

    • YOu get very angry about a lot of things that go on in your imagination.

  28. A tangential, indirect, circuitious connection of a call girl, via a former Tory staffer, can be linked in the most miniscule fashion to Harper (Carson) wall to wall coverag for days.

    Layton actually caught naked with a suspected prostitute in a bawdy house, not news?

    Today's "balanced" progressive media.

    • Did Layton also try and profit off the misery of our First Nations? That was the story – Carson using his connections to secure contracts for his fiance… Try and keep up Chet.

      • Yup; and even more of the Carson scandal doesn't even involve his fiance the escort or his previous fiance the bawdyhouse keeper who partied at the PM home; but the larger scandal involves Harper very much.
        http://thetyee.ca/News/2011/04/27/CarsonOilSands/

    • Yep. That sound of panic you hear is not coming from Layton. I doubt this will hurt him too badly.

      The panic is coming from a media which is just now realizing that they no longer have a monopoly on deciding which politicians and which political parties are granted journalistic immunity from the type of sleazy, gotcha journalism that they dole out against their political opponents.

      • When was the last time the mainstream media reported on a Conservative member's alleged sexual indiscretions there John?

          • Helena Guergis defending herself from a Tory smear. I agree that that's analogous to this situation….but not in the way that you're suggesting.

          • So you're looking for a case of a Conservative MP found naked by a cop in a massage parlor/whorehouse, apparently.

          • Well, Conservative smears are all too common. But you smearers can take credit for driving more votes toward Layton and away from your repellant party and leader.

          • No, I'm looking for a case of the media reporting it. If anybody seriously thinks a Tory has never done it – and if you think the media don't know about it – I have a piece of land to sell you in Florida.

        • macleans.ca:

          1. liveblogging-julie-couillards-interview-with-tva may 2008

          2. Why the fuzzy face, Quebecor? May 2008

          3. julie-couillard-photo-album June 2008

          4. julie-couillard-blind-date June 2008

          5. Kicked while down, insulted while injured dep't June 2008

          6. Quebecor and Couillard: No comment June 2008

          7. Moving in the right circles – The foreign minister wasn't Couillard's only well-placed friend June 2008

          8. Julie Couillard… conservative donor June 2008

          9. Megapundit: What Julie Couillard has to do with Mikhail Gorbachev June 2008

          10. a-liveblog-review-of-my-story-by-julie-couillard Oct 2008

          11. Maclean's Interview: Julie Couillard Oct 2008

          12. julie-couillards-sex-tips-for-girls Oct 2008

          13. Monday Mailbag: Your only source for naked Julie Couillard photos December 2008

          14. Dear Ministers: watch who you date – January 2010

          "Julie was engaged in the '90s to Gilles Giguère (right). Giguère ran a construction company but was also the right-hand man to loan shark Robert Savard. Savard was a longtime friend of Hells Angels boss, Maurice "Mom" Boucher. "

          "Julie's low-cut dress garnered plenty of attention among those in attendance"

          "Now that Maxime Bernier's former girlfriend's memoir has been wrung dry for its scant political dirt"

          14 posts/stories about Julie Couillard spanning two years. Seems strange they found no room to talk about Jack.

          • That wasn't a sexual indiscretion. It was the lack of discretion with confidential documents that made that news.

          • Obviously you haven't read those stories.

            So you're saying the Julie Couillard photo album was about the docs? The "sex tips for girls"? How about my selection of quotes, perhaps you could relate them to the documents somehow.

          • Just like the Sunshine Girl has something to do with news?

          • No be she got famous over the documents. After that, she was a public figure.

        • Here's another, April 2008:
          http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/story/

          "A Saskatchewan MP says that he's sorry for homophobic comments he made on a videotape from 1991 that was released by the NDP on Thursday."

          "The NDP said it found the 17-year-old tape"

          Only someone on the extreme left would claim that a party leader caught naked in a bawdy house is somehow less relevant that a few homophobic remarks from an MP found on a 17-year old tape.

          • how do you find all this so fast?

          • google.

          • what – le ? – lol

          • Probably not the most valuable use of my time LOL

            On the other hand, it's a better use of my time than lying naked with a foreign lady in a bawdy house.

          • debatable.

          • You're right, Layton would disagree.

          • john g is right.

            If any indiscretion by a conservative MP can be found, it's in the news. Over and over again. If it's got sexual connotations, they've hit the jackpot.

            Coyne is saying he ignored the Layton story because it was not relevant. Meanwhile his magazine ran 14 stories on Julie Couillard – the documents left at her house, her apparent ties to the mafia and the hells angels, her memoir, her ties to Quebecor, her photo album, her wardrobe, her sexual appeal, etc etc.

            But Jack caught naked by a cop in a bawdy house? Nah, we've got standards to uphold!

          • i actually think the journalists are fundamentally incapable of seeing their double-standard. it doesn't matter what you say, they just don't and won't get it.

            jack layton is a good guy so this is a vicious smear. harper conservatives are bad guys, so smearing them is just good clean fun. anyone who says different is obviously too stupid to be a journalist.

          • Nobody gets away with making bigoted remarks. The Liberal who made the racist remarks about Aboriginals got nailed too. As a gay person, i have a right to know that one of your candidates just insulted me. I do not have a right to know if one of your candidates got a hand job from a sex trade worker. Big difference.

        • Here's another, a Liberal MP this time…. from macleans.ca, Oct 2007

          More damning for Wilson are allegations he lavished money on a mistress in Poland, where he owned part of a pizza chain, and milked his wife's family for millions in unpaid loans and poor investments — including a $22,840.82 cheque from his mother-in-law this April as she lay dying from cancer.
          http://www.macleans.ca/canada/national/article.js

          But Jack Layton found naked by a cop in a bawdy house? Nah…. can't talk about that. We've got standards.

          • As long as Jack did not pay for his shiatsu massage with taxpayers' money, there is no story here, just sleazy Conservatives trying to pull attention away from Harper's many scandals.

          • this became news because Stronach and MacKay were a couple before Stronach became a turncoat, and it was her move towards the Liberal party that caused the breakup. Either way, Stronach (then a Liberal) was the "bad guy" in the story. With the mention of the Bernier scandal, all you've proved is that the media are wiliing to cover personal scandals and stories involving our MPs and government when those have a bearing on policy and governance.

        • Here's a doozy:

          "It's the last closet on the right: Why are Republicans so often caught in gay sex scandals?"

          macleans.ca

          March 2010
          http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/03/23/it%E2%80%99s-t

          Remember Larry Craig, the Idaho senator who in 2007 pleaded guilty to disorderly conduct after his arrest for soliciting sex in a Minneapolis airport washroom? Or state Rep. Bob Allen, deemed one of Florida's most homophobic politicians, who faced the same charges one month later? (His defence: he'd offered to perform oral sex for $20, he said, because he'd been intimidated by the undercover officer, a black man.) And a month after that, Richard Curtis, a state representative from Washington, another anti-gay, “family values” Republican, stepped down amid allegations he'd solicited gay sex. His seamy police report made Craig look angelic. In 2006, Florida congressman Mark Foley was also forced to step down after reports of inappropriate conduct with male pages surfaced—a scandal that came hard on the heels of the Ted Haggard bombshell. The New Life Church pastor was never elected to public office, but until a male escort alleged a three-year relationship (and meth-fuelled romps), Haggard had been among the country's most influential Christian conservatives; for a time, he'd reportedly met weekly with then-president George W. Bush.

          The right certainly doesn't own the trend. Just last week, Democratic congressman Eric Massa resigned amid allegations he'd sexually harassed male staffers. (You'd be forgiven, however, for confusion over his political orientation: the rookie representative, who curiously admitted to groping and “tickle fights,” was a lifelong Republican who'd switched allegiances over the Iraq war and blamed his downfall on Democratic fury over his opposition to health care reform.) And the GOP can't match the Democrats for either volume or the tawdriness of their heterosexual scandals. The unending sleaziness of John Edwards is a good starting point; the sexual appetites of Bill Clinton and John F. Kennedy are stuff of legend. Hypocrisy, meanwhile, runs on both sides of the aisle, says Grattan, noting that former New York Democratic governor Eliot Spitzer was “Mr. Ethics” until he was linked to a prostitution ring.

          Wow, seems strange they could talk about all those horrid Republicans and their gay sex scandals, but not Jack Layton's naked bawdy house encounter with a cop. Strange.

        • And another….

          'Porn' furor grips MPs

          Allegations a Tory MP was surfing "soft porn" in the House of Commons turned into a cautionary tale about what is displayed on your computer screen at work, as well as about the dangers of jumping to conclusions.
          http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/283086

          Dec 2007

      • Notwithstanding the question of news judgement, I think it's interesting that the Carson story, IMHO, didn't resonate at all with the public. The 'busty hookers' story was a non-starter. Will this Layton story be any different? Maybe people should care about stories like these, but I don't think they do. The story's only a few hours old, so who knows.

        • Actually I agree with you. On this one. I doubt it moves things appreciably. But what about the next one that comes along which CP or CBC or TorStar would have preferred not seen the light of day? Or the one after that? Or the one after that? That's what's causing the panic here. The days of cherrypicking which politicians or parties will be smeared and which will be protected are over. Now they'll all be smeared…Conservatves by the usual suspects, and the rest by Sun, who will force the others along for the ride. Until the profession finally cleans itself up and tries to return to relevance.

        • I'm not so sure there's even enough time for most people to hear about this story before the election. Not everybody is a political junkie like the people on this board.

      • Absolutely!

  29. Mr. J. Fantino will surely have something assuring and soothing to say about all this. When they find him. He will certainly have some stern words regarding an anonymous ex-policeman and others using the "law as a political weapon". Won't he?

    • I was wondering who the anonymous retired cop might have been.

      • Yeah, what a mystery!

        Say, did you ever tune into the 'Craig Bromell' show? On AM 640? It was a great listen. Too bad it's not on anymore! He'd have lots to say about this, for sure!

  30. Now that we know, I guess it matters and inevitably affects our sense of Layton. But did we really need to know?

  31. I've never heard it called a "smear campaign" before.

    I wonder if it costs extra for that?

    • Usually it costs extra, but it's free on Friday nights.

      • Woot! I should give Jack a call and see if he can give me the address. I'll make sure my wife has her story straight in case the police catch me though.

    • Heh.

  32. So help me out folks – I'm missing something here. What exactly was happy ending Jack doing in a well known whorehouse with his pants off when the cops walked in. Perhaps our esteemed journalist Mr Weary could ask him and enlighten us with the answer.

    • And that would matter to the proper governance of the country how exactly?

      • if he could be blackmailed, that would matter a lot. . .

    • Yes, I have to agree that you're certainly missing something.

      • Hahaha reply of the day award!!

  33. A few things strike me about this story. First of all, the people who are claiming that 'it is not a story' or 'it is not news'. I would submit that is an opinion. To one person, it means nothing, to another, it is important. That we are not all the same is obvious.

    I am trying to look at this objectively. I will first state the known facts.
    Jack was in this place at 9:30pm. His wife confirms it. She claims that it is a smear campaign, and tries to use the issue to urge voters to vote NDP.
    NDP lawyers heard of this story running, and tried to 'gag', or limit it.
    The police believed this place to be a place of wrongdoing.
    Jack was basically told not to come back to the said place (by the police).
    That was all from the Maclean's post. Now to the Sun's article.
    First of all, as other people have posted, the Sun is setting itself up for a massive suing, if one iota of the article is wrong. I will assume by that that the majority of the article is factually correct. (the context and innuendo is something that the Sun can control).
    The info that they got from the retired officer was documented in his notebook in 1996.
    Jack was naked at time of police entry (bad choice of words?). – lol
    Asian gangs used these types of places to take pictures of people, and use it to blackmail them.

    This makes me want to ask so many questions.
    First, as this is an indecent that obviously happened, why has it not come out earlier? Do our news agencies decide what is right and wrong, or just report what they think is relevant?
    If this is or isn't true, which party will it help the most? If your answer is the NDP, is it possible that they are the ones that 'leaked' it? Might it be better for them that this come out now, rather than 3 months from now?
    I read this story and think, if he did nothing wrong (which seems really unlikely), time will vindicate him. If he did do something wrong, we have a right to know before we vote. Even if nothing ever comes out of what happened there, what if he does something like this in the future? Can photos be taken, and the PM of Canada be subjected to blackmail by gangs? What if there are photos, and no one has used them yet?
    I haven't even started scratching the surface of the ramifications of this. If Olivia knew, then is she complicit? If she didn't, why did she back him up after finding out?
    At the worst, more 'reporting' needs to be done on this, and the Canadian people need to know exactly what happened. If you think that this is irrelevant, that is your opinion – that doesn't make it true.

    I thought I would type all of this instead of "This is horrible. I was going to vote CPC, but after this, I am voting NDP." It was a tough choice, though.

    • Funny how when CSIS head McFadden claimed that federal, municipal, and Provincial politicians were being targeted by foreign agents, including China, Olivia Chow and the NDP were the first ones out of the gate to condemn him for doing his job.

    • Jack was naked at time of police entry (bad choice of words?). – lol

      LOL!!!

      • Thanks

  34. Like it or not — and I don't — it is nevertheless a legitimate news story.
    However, the timing is very suspicious, especially from the Sun News organization which openly professes to be a politically far-right news agency that feeds on smut.
    Very suspicious. However, a news story is a news story.

    • "openly professes to be a politically far-right news agency that feeds on smut"

      Can you link me to that statement?

    • The timing is suspicious because apparently many in the media had heard of the incident, and didn't find it necessary to report it. If you do believe this is a legitimate news story, then you should be thanking SNN for reporting this before the election.

      And I'd like to know where SNN has professed to feed on smut?

  35. Just the first of many NDP scandals to come ….wake up people your shining knights in orange are sleazeball politicians feeding you the pablum of lies and feel good crap all in the pursuit of power….always thought the title New Democratic Party sounded very orwellian…what exactly is "New Democracy"? Oh well bring on the double plus ungood! You NDP socialist supporters are as bad as the Liberals and the Conservatives…what a joke

    • who else is there left to vote for?

  36. Hmm…Jack says he was just getting a "shiatsu".

    Jack's an urban politician, must know the lingo…I wonder if Urban Dictionary has any entries for shiatsu?

    Yikes…

    • my Lexus can give me a Shiatsu as a drive. that means nothing.

      The correct terms for things like this on "the street" are easily found on far less reputable boards than this one, if you care to search around. "Shiatsu" isn't one of them.

  37. I just keep being drawn back to the idea that if this were true, and Jack were to become PM, our PM might at one point be blackmailed by a gang.

    That by itself is troublesome.

    • Wow, what a stupid remark.

      • care to elaborate as to how it is stupid? I think it might be the most important part of the whole story. (If Jack is actually into that kind of thing).

        • Since the story is out, presumably the gang can no longer blackmail him.

        • Actually, that's why Maclean's ran 14 stories of Julie Couillard, it was all about her gang ties and how she had the power to turn Canada into a nation controlled by Hell's Angels.

          • that was like totally different. bernier was a conservative.

        • two things:

          the story that is out is not certain – pictures sure would make it so.

          If it happened in the future, with pictures, it would easily be used for blackmail.

    • if this were true, and Jack were to become PM, our PM might at one point be blackmailed by a gang<.i>

      Sure, and if unicorns existed, and we elected one PM, he might accidentally stab the Governor General with his horn one day.

      • if a unicorn were caught naked with a young Asian woman in a bawdy house by police, we can start discussing that possibility.

  38. I was going to vote for the Greens as a protest vote, but Sun Media has convinced me otherwise. I'm voting for Layton and the NDP.

  39. If Olivia trusts Jack, that's good enough for me. Ultimately this is a personal matter – Layton wasn't charged with anything – and shouldn't impact anybody's votes. That goes to those claiming they plan to switch their votes based on this issue as well:
    What proof do you have that the CPC is behind this story? Why give Layton the benefit of the doubt, but not others? It is the Bloc and Liberals that stand to gain the most from this since
    A. they are the ones that lost support to the NDP
    B. they are the ones that face prospective annihilation

    As far as we know, the only guilty party here is Sun News. Their motivations are pretty clear too – they were doing poorly, and desperately want ratings. In a mere 11 days, they have vindicated the fears many had of a Fox News North (although this is more like National Enquirer North).

    Jack Layton has been unfairly smeared, and that shouldn't impact our assessment of him. However, to make a man Prime Minister because he is a victim of something is profoundly unwise – particularly if the people you are blaming may well be entirely innocent. The election should be about issues – taxes, healthcare, Afghanistan, etc. If people vote on the basis of outrage, it is just as bad as if they vote on the basis of smears.

    • I am amazed, as I actually agree with a lot of this.

      One thing though, if Hillary says he did nothing, would you still believe Bill. :) In politics, things change. . .

  40. News organizations have been keeping quiet about a big sex rumour that touches on another national leader. Funny how the entente cordiale breaks up here and now.

    • Well it seems that Sun "News" breaks the cartel, just as it broke what appears to be an informal agreement to not broadcast the Muhammad cartoons (which Sun News aired for no apparent reason). That is quite unfortunate for them, and vindicates the claims they are a Fox News North – if not something much much worse. I'm not very inclined towards the CRTC, but the decision not to make Sun News a "must carry" is looking a lot better these days.

      As for the rumour you are hinting at – I have never heard anything substantive on that front. If it is true, my heart goes out to Harper and his family.

  41. Funny how the sleaze ball Liberals encrusted within Canada's corrupt, taxpayer subsidized media are falling all over themselves with righteous indignation over this alleged "smear" of a fellow lefty, and in some cases media Liberal voters have been sitting on this story for months ( Coyne), the media hypocrisy is colossal. Naked Vladimir Layton caught up in a police sting of a whore house and the MSM says, meh, nothing to see here, but did "Harper" eat that wafer or not, and imaginary "busty hookers" and "bags of cocaine" are front page news for months. Naked Jack is an oily, slippery character who loves the spotlight and employs some of the most nasty, vicious smear agents the NDP can dig up, Pat ( lying his ass off ) Martin for one, Paul Dewar, another, I wonder how Jack likes the spotlight now, when the shoe is on the other foot. The hypocrisy from the lefty media and the lefty party's they prop up is rich. The same Liberal, NDP followers who lap up the constant, incessant smear campaigns against the Conservatives and the PM from the lefty media ( MacLeans, CBC, CTV, Glowball,etc.) are the first ones out of the gate to declare this type of "smear" against a Liberal or an NDP'er as indecent. It's all okay when Liberals, NDPers and their media whores doing what it takes, with shock@awe political expediency without morality or decency, using deceit to carry out a specious agenda of power at any cost while their followers happily and gleefully jump on the constant manufactured fear@smear train. Not so fun when the tables are turned though. Good times.

  42. "…
    The news organization said its report was based on the notebook of the retired officer. The notebook, according to the Sun report, allegedly reports a conversation in which the policeman asks Layton whether he received sexual services. Layton, a Toronto city councillor at the time, reportedly answers that he did not.

    The newspaper reports that the police decided not to charge him…"

    So, no story here, folks, no matter how much you Coinservative liars try to puff it up.
    http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/decision-canada

    • Just curious, where do you live?

      • I live in an apartment above my street-front business, a respectable massage parlor, on Dundas Street in Toronto. Our specialty is shiatsu.

        • Never lived in Toronto then I take it.

          • Why do you ask?

          • I'm guessing he feels that your assumptions about what "reputable businesses" are supposed to look like suggest a possible unfamiliarity with large eastern cities like Toronto.

          • You're right… it was a "reputable business".

            The setup at 787 Dundas St. W. impressed the ex-cop.

            The guy who ran the place controlled traffic with a red and green light system from the second floor where he could see down a stairway to the street.

            "The setup was amazing … when the police showed up, the manager flicked on the red light switch — which told the girls to pretend it was a legitimate business — rubs only — keep it clean and the green light meant they could perform sexual services," he says.

            "Each room had a window so that the owners could check that the girls weren't being hurt or more importantly, to them, that the girls weren't performing oral sex and later saying they were only being masturbated because fellatio cost more and the owners wanted to make sure they got their money."

            Police were most concerned about underage girls brought in from Thailand and Vietnam.
            http://www.torontosun.com/2011/04/29/suspected-ba

            Clearly it was a reputable business. I'm sure Jack thought so.

          • I've spent lots of time in Chinatown in the Dundas-Spadina area. Some great restaurants, some good stores. Like most people, I would not be caught dead in a place like that.

          • 787 Dundas West isn't in Chinatown. It's west of Bathurst – where Little Portugal begins in earnest.

            So no, you're not familiar with Toronto.

          • Yes, I'm familiar with Toronto, very familiar. I've lived 15 blocks away from that particular location, you twit. So apparently you think that you've personally decided the boundaries of Chinatown. Anyone looking at that video knows that you're full of sh*t. If the stores have Chinese signs, then it's Chinatown, no matter what some twit like you declares, as if you're the mayor. See if, in your infinite Toronto wisdom, you can figure out what well-known large institution is located about 15 blocks from there. I'm guessing you haven't the slightest clue, because people like you are always full of bluster and hot air, you've probably never even been on Dundas yourself. Chinatown, like little Italy, like little Portugal, like Koreatown, like every other neighbourhood around there, has no rigid boundaries! They're neighburhoods! They're not municipalities! Chinese people don't cease to be Chinese when they walk down the street. Go f*ck yourself, preferably in your favourite whorehouse. You are such an arrogant twit.

          • If the stores have Chinese signs, then it's Chinatown.

            You've got to be kidding me. There are Chinese signs ALL OVER my neighbourhood, and it would take me almost an hour to get to Chinatown from here.

          • Because that massage place looks like the vast majority of businesses in downtown Toronto, and particularly Chinatown. Real estate is expensive there, so a lot of stores are on the second stories of buildings.

            A better angle to go on this one would be distance. There are a lot of massage places that are significantly closer to Jack's house. http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=yonge%20s

            And the fact that it employed mostly Asian women should be suspect. Layton opted for a massage parlour that was further away, but that primarily employed women of an ethnicity that it is fair to say he is attracted to.

          • Fair to say he is attracted to? The woman who he fell in love with happens to be Chinese so suddenly he is some sort of fetishist? Are you going to accuse a woman of having jungle fever next?

          • I never said he was a fetishist. But there is some element of revealed preference in people's choice of partner. If somebody was married to a tall woman, it might not be too much of a stretch to deduce that he is attracted to, or at least tolerant of tall women.

          • I disagree that it looks like the vast majority of businesses in downtown Toronto.

          • Downtown Toronto has been getting less gritty, as formerly ethnic working class neighbourhoods become gentrified – but there are still a ton of places that look like that, and there were even more back in 1996.

          • Actually, overall I think Toronto looks a bit worse today. For instance, Yonge St looks terrible, the part from Bloor southwards. There was a time when Yonge St was nice, back when Sam the Record Man was still there. The Dundas St area in question looks more or less the same.

    • Is this video from 15 years ago?

  43. So now we know why e-Jack-u-Layton was against raising the age of sexual consent!

    E-Jack-u-Layton says he's the victim of a smear campaign. Ya of erotic massage oil!!!!

    Sick! Caught in a bawdyhouse, It was a dimly lit place with a bouncer in front, all the rooms had doors with tiny windows where the bawdy house operators could keep an eye on what was going on. You can be certain it was full of run away street kids, exploited immigrant girls, and drug addicts, all whom he claims to be so concerned about. Fits the pattern — living in subsidized housing while working hard for the homeless. He also promises to work hard for our families! What at exploiting them? Economically he's like agent orange, and now we find out he's likely a perv.

    I have one question, do we call Layton John or Jack?

    • e-Jack-u-Layton – that is funny – even without this story – that is funny. :)

      • To immature rightwingers, no doubt.

  44. I'd really like to know why nobody's managed to dig up a picture of the "masseuse"?! Hooker allegations simply aren't even fun if there isn't any pictures of said hooker.

    Obviously this event happened, and obviously there has been a concerted effort to keep it covered up. I think that SNN should do a little expose on media org's that agreed to help the NDP keep this information away from the public.

    I suspect this will affect the NDP base more than the "Orange Crush" voters who've moved over to the NDP in the last week. It's the long-time Dippers who've been in love with Jack for a decade who will feel most betrayed by this revelation.

    • Progressives, in general, Rick, don't even think prostitution should be criminalized. To them, this is about as scandalous as admiting you smoked pot.

      • "Obviously "? Is that the word Harper uses far too often? Rick must be very naive to believe a Sun story is credible.

  45. Two things about the story seem off to me:
    1. How many 5'10 tall Chinese women are there? The average female in China (and the sinister version of the story suggests the masseuse was born in China) is 5'2. The standard deviation of height is about 3 inches. So if height is normally distributed, it would suggest that only about .38% of Chinese women are 5'10 or taller. I know its just a small element of the story, but it is improbable nonetheless.

    2. If Jack Layton was going to visit a rub and tug, why would he do so a mere 13 minute bike-ride (according to google directions) away from his home, given that he and his wife were public figures (both were councillors and he had run for mayor in 1991)? In particular, why would he visit an establishment that was IN his wife's ward?

    • Apparently the province that Yao Ming comes from is known for having extremely tall people…not sure how true that is (and frankly it's waaay too late to loo into :)

    • Wrt question 2, it all comes down to the fact that he thought he could get away with it, and he did, for the last 15 years.

      Consider how a former POTUS had no trouble with similar shenanigans in the white house during business hours. Consider how John Edwards was regularly bedding a mistress in motel rooms on the democratic nomination campaign trail in 2008.

      But most of all, consider the fact that Clinton only got caught because Lewinsky kept a dress unwashed for several years, while Edwards only got caught long after the 2008 presidential election was over. Also consider Tiger Woods.

  46. This is even nuttier than I thought!

    The guy who ran the place controlled traffic with a red and green light system from the second floor where he could see down a stairway to the street.

    "The setup was amazing … when the police showed up, the manager flicked on the red light switch — which told the girls to pretend it was a legitimate business — rubs only — keep it clean and the green light meant they could perform sexual services,"
    http://www.torontosun.com/2011/04/29/suspected-ba

    Apparently Coyne thought that this was not newsworthy. Interesting.

    • You'll note that this is the police officer describing the general setup of places that are run by gangs, not the particular place in question. You have to parse the semantics very carefully; rags like the Sun run on the thin edge of the most salacious and damaging versus what they can get away with without being sued.

  47. All the NDP supporters are assuming Layton is going to do better than ever because of this. You'd bette wait until Monday to decide that one. Sounds like bravado to me.

    This could be interpreted as "creepy".

  48. For the sake of argument, though, one does have to wonder why Layton picked this particular massage parlour. Since he was there at 9:30, presumably he went there from his house. Google maps displays the nearest massage places to Jack Layton's house (he lived in the Hazelburn Coop). Just google: "Massage near 178 Jarvis Street, Toronto, Ontario, Canada"

    Just two blocks away, there is the massage therapy centre. Moving west until Bathurst (787 Dundas West is near Dundas and Bathurst) from Layton's home, sticking between Queen and College there are at least 40 dots on the google search (and more, if you travel an equal distance east). So it does seem odd that Layton avoided the multitude of closer choices.

    Secondly, one might wonder why, of all the choices available, Layton happened to pick a massage parlour that exclusively employed young, Asian women.

    • Okay scratch that. Layton and Chow had moved to a semi-detached home on Huron street (153 Huron), very close to 787 Dundas West by 1996. So the place probably was the closest one to his house. I think google maps' estimate of a 7 minute bike ride is probably way too high as well.
      http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=jack%20la

  49. Let's see. Take one 16 year old story add a PM needing ,nay begging for a majority, or he's toast.[ Said PM already has three contempt strikes of parliament against him.]
    Stir in, on the eve of the election, a disclosure by an alleged newspaper, who has already tried to noble another party leader.And voila! You got a newly minted PM Jack Layton. And just when he was showing signs of not answering all the tough questions as well. What a shame!
    My wait is over i would say. Started to wonder if SH would actually skip his usual ass over tip faceplant he invariably manages at this stage of the game. Right on time, regular as clockwork our erstwhile ex PM.

    • If faux outrage is a certain outcome, how do you know the NDP didn't plant the story, figuring it would be blamed on the Tories? You need evidence if you are going to make that kind of claim.

      • Sorry, not faux outrage, but genuine outrage by the voters against the Tories.

        • I don't really claim anything really. But youmust admit it stinks abit? I saw your earlier post[ and you left this possibility out – silly of you] and i agree the other two parties have a strong motive as well. But really this is right up this particular CPC parties ally. You have my sympathies as a conservative. You deserve better; the country deserves better.

          Come on. The notion of Jack pulling this on the eve of his triumph is preposterous.

    • Deal with the massage, – whoops that's deal with the message.

      The most sanctimoneous guy in the race wants to be PM. He literally got caught with his pants down. He doesn't deny it.

      Leftists please explain why he should be PM with judgement like that.

      • good Character?

      • Same reason we elect leaders that admit to smoking dope in the past. We're not the USA, and what people do in their private time is their own business as long as it's not hurting others.

  50. A rich old white man sexually exploiting young asian females You're dead in the water here in BC now NDP

  51. Sorry to say, but this is par for the course. You can't say Jack ever missed an opportunity to chime in with his reaction and judgments about another politician's alleged transgressions.

  52. Never rub a socialist up the wrong way …

    Hypocrites.

  53. I assume that somebody went to great lengths to dig up as much dirt about Layton as they could. The fact that they had to go back 16 years, to an incident for which Layton was not charged, probably says something positive about Jack.

    The Sun Media organization is beneath contempt for running this filth.

    • This isn't the only "dirt" (and you can debate what dirt is – here I simply mean the kind of things that get released in a gotcha fashion), but the other stories are already out there:

      -lived in government subsidized housing, while making a combined income of 120,000 with his wife (though just before his mayoral run, he started paying additional fees, and Hazelburn was a mixed income housing project).
      -attended the private Shouldice Hospital for a Hernia (on the other hand, Shouldice is kind of a weird place, in terms of private vs. public. It is private, but was grandfathered in, since it predated Medicare. I've seen it referred to as a non-profit, but it does earn profits of up to 6.5%. I checked its website, and while OHIP covers medical and surgical costs, it doesn't cover accommodation, which is an intrinsic part of the Shouldice approach)
      -got into trouble for campaigning in Eaton's (but won the ensuring case on free speech grounds)

      So, there are other gotcha type stories, but they have a context that should at least give serious pause to Layton's detractors.

  54. "Progressive media ground rules":

    Sun TV women wearing….gulp….sleevless tops:

    Wall to wall coverage warrented.

    Jack Layton caught naked in a known bawdy house amidst a child prostitution sting operation;

    Not news but a "smear".

  55. Look how the hypocritical left ignore the issue of Layton's judgement. He's naked in a well known bordello at night a dubious district of Toronto. The massuese is wiping down with a tissue when the cops show. He claims to be an anti-hooker crusader.

    …and Candians shouldn't question whether he's suitable to run the country?

    I guess the medium is in the massage.

    • Well, if Harper doesn't get a majority he can form a coalition with Layton. A man who likes bordellos and a man who choses an advisor with a known criminal record on numerous cases of fraud : they'll get along famously well. Their judgment is of equal quality.

    • You've never been to Toronto either I gather.

    • Jack? An anti-hooker crusader? Huh?!

  56. Maybe Canadians should go to their neighbourhood police station today and demand to see the notes of all police officers taken over the past fifteen years, copy them and bring them home,.

    If SUN TV can have access to these, why can't I? I don't see anyone suggesting that this may be illegal.

  57. What's the story anyway? Jack Layton is suspected of being heterosexual?

    • Unlike quite a few Conservatives.

  58. A massage parlour with underage Asian girls. Why not query Layton's judgment?
    Obviously he likes Chinese women: he married one.

    • Ah yes, the tried and true "yellow fever" argument. Because no real self-respecting white person is capable of having a relationship with someone of another race unless there's some kind of sexual cross-racial fetish involved, right?

    • Layton lived in Chinatown at the time. 787 Dundas west was close to his house, and also in Chinatown. Why should it be surprising that a massage parlour there mostly employed Asian women?

  59. I feel Sorry for Jack …. the police interrupted before he got his "Happy Ending" …. the only ones that got screwed were the tax payers of Toronto, because I'm sure it was on his city council expense account …. but then again, if the NDP do somehow get a majority ….. We ALL get screwed !!!

    If the government starts spending an additional $70+ Billion annually, then it has to come from somewhere !!

    Tax the Corporations? Guess where they get their income from?
    They make money by selling Goods and Services … to us (the consumer) … or to other companies and corporations …. who make goods to sell to us (the consumer) !!!

    One of two things will happen when you over-tax a corporation or company ….. they will either raise their prices and OUR COST OF LIVING ….. OR … they will move their operation to another country that appreciates the jobs they will be gaining and usually offers the corporation a healthy Tax Break to set up shop there !!

    Oh sure …. the results of over-taxation on corporations may mean that thousands and thousands of HIGHLY PAID UNION JOBS may be lost to Mexico, China, etc., ….. but that's OK …… We'll have Jack in charge !! … And he can extend our EI benefits!!

    Of course …. that will cost more than the government can afford to spend …. which means they'll have to borrow more from the World Bank (without any viable plan to repay it) and increase our FEDERAL DEBT ….. which will cause our National Credit Rating to DROP …. which will cause our Annual DEFICIT to INCREASE ….. which will mean less money that the Government can spend ….. which will mean cutting services ( like Health Care Payments, Pensions, E I payments, etc) …. or possibly cause the government to work shorter weeks for less pay …. Remember Rae Days ???

    Except maybe we'll call them Jack- Off Days this time ….. because if we the people put Jacko and his band of socialist twits in charge …. then we're just screwing ourselves :(

  60. Canada is a country where police officers can legally use the notes they take in the exercise of their duty to smear persons who haven't been accused of crime? I had no idea.

    • You nailed an important point. We all need to put our selves in Jack's position…er not literally.

      • Now that you mention it, I could use an adjustment…

  61. "Secondly, one might wonder why, of all the choices available, Layton happened to pick a massage parlour that exclusively employed young, Asian women." -hosertohoosier

    If you were going to get a massage, hosertohoosier, what gender and age would you prefer? Young First Nations males? Elderly European women? Or maybe you'd like a variety?

    • Now that I realize Layton had moved to 153 Huron street, the innocent version of the story makes a lot more sense. He went to a massage parlour that happened to be just by his house. Since he lived in Chinatown, it wouldn't be surprising that the place exclusively employed Asian women.

      The point i was making is that one would pick different massage parlours if one's motivations were healing back-pain versus getting a rub and tug. If my primary motivation was back pain, I would go to a place that seemed reputable, and was close to my house. If my motivation was to get jerked off, I would go to a place that employed attractive women.

      However, that point was premised on him picking between all the places from Jarvis to Bathurst. Since he actually lived around Spadina, the point is moot. He went to a place 7 minutes from his house by bike, in his wife's ward at 9:30. Dundas West isn't as busy as Queen or College, but I've walked through that way plenty of times, and there are usually people around there. There is no way a public figure would knowingly go to a rub and tug operation in those kinds of circumstances.

      • I respect your willingness to evaluate the circumstances.

  62. Yes, anyone would call it chinatown, because it is chinatown. It's chinatown to everyone but you. And you didn't answer my question, which confirms one thing – you are such a liar, it's obvious that you're claiming to live nearby to give yourself some absurd form of credibility (as if I care whether you live in little Italy or the Yukon), when I've outed you to be just full of sh*t. Dundas and Claremont? LOL I'll bet you're gonna claim you're Chinese too! Off the boat from Shanghai, specialist in Shiatsu! What do you charge?

    • You're the one claiming credibility by living 15 blocks from the area. Which isn't Chinatown. Not that I live there, now. I lived there in the past. From 1999 to 2001, when I moved to College and Brunswick*. Which also isn't Chinatown, but is very close to Chinatown. So I know Chinatown when I see it.

      And I think by my last name and avatar that it's exceptionally clear what my background is.

      Why are you so angry???

      *Sorry I guess I should say I lived in the area for 2 years, not 3. My bad.

      • Oh, so it's still not chinatown. I see. You keep on repeating that. You still haven't answered my question – because you don't know, you can't even answer a simple question about the neighbourhood. I'll bet you lived next door to Jack's massage parlour, didn't you?

        • What question is that?

        • no honestly…what question am I dodging?

      • You know what? Jack's adventures in a whorehouse have nothing to do with where I've lived, where you've lived, your avatar, your name, or what kind of bull you can attempt to spout about the city of Toronto, with as much credibility as you can muster.

        • Hey, you're the one who been railing about how Jack Layton was going to a Chinatown whorehouse, and you'd know, because you've spent lots of time at Dundas and Spadina (which is a bit of a hike from Dundas and Palmerston – you gotta walk through Kensington Market…another part of Chinatown apparently…before getting there)

          I think it's pretty obvious to all parties involved that I've actually spent my adult life living in these areas, and you haven't. I don't need to muster any credibility, you do.

          Your anger is betraying you bub.

          • http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy157/Halo_Ove

            The nearest intersection.

            Those still curious are invited to use Google street view to count the Chinese signs on the street, since according to s_c_f, "if the stores have Chinese signs, then it's Chinatown". (Spoiler alert: for one block on either side of that intersection, roughly 25% do and 75% don't.)

          • Yep, by his rationale Ossington and Queen was little Vietnam because there used to be 3 or 4 Vietnamese Karaoke bars on that block :)

            btw – the link doesn't work.

          • Perfect! I was just trying to remember if the street signs had "Portugal" on them or not. It's pretty obviously Chinatown!

  63. Every piece of BS against Harper and Iggy are ok right.?
    Just dont answer why Jack didn't tell the cops why he was naked.

  64. Jon Kay of the National Post has a very interesting revelation on Twitter:

    For those who care, someone tried to shop me the Layton-massage story 2 yrs ago (without docs). It was a Liberal fixer.

    Could have been Tories pushing the Layton-massage story this time. I dont know. But last time around, it was the Lib back office

    I didnt bite because the source wasnt talking, and I couldnt get the cop's notebook through access-to-info, so I dropped it.

    And I mention this only because the leak itself has become the story — with many folks unfairly assuming it must have been CPC.

    Didnt pursue it because (a) source wasnt talking at the time, (b) my access-to-info request for the necessary docs was denied.

    Hmmm…

    • Those pretending any other media outfit wouldn't run with this story if presented with all the pieces (as Sun was) are dreaming. Conspiracy theories about the timing a similarly unfounded: the Sun reporter involved said the timing hinged on the police source (who almost certainly doesn't like Jack, but again that's his prerogative not Suns)

      • Absolutely. Sun has been the centre of the news for the past day. Any news source would take that if their story was credible, and it is. Note that Kay did not say his refusal to pursue the story was because it wasn't a valid story, just that it wasn't sourced properly. All parties acknowledge that Jack was found naked in a massage parlor when the cops raided it and questioned him. What you make of that info is up to you.

  65. Well I would never vote for him but this story would make me tell the pollsters that Jack is the leader I’d most want to have a beer with.

  66. My initial reaction to this was so what, but as more information comes out, perhaps there are some issues to be addressed. Toronto councillor Mammoliti claims it was well known from the time it opened in 1994 that the Velvet Touch Massage was a bawdy house and that police were targetting places like that because of concerns of using underage girls from Thailand. Drugs and organized crime are also mentioned. Maybe Layton wasn't involved in any of this, but certainly that is the concern with places like this – are children and/or women being exploited and abused.

    On one hand, I don't think anything legal and consensual is anyone's business at all, but this story seems on the edge of issues that are people's business. I don't find Layton's "didn't know" plausible – unless a lot of news outlets are just repeating falsehoods. Given Layton's lawyers threat of legal action, I think they must have sources to back up what they are reporting. Or is that naive?

    • Reasonable argument, though Mammoliti's kind of a weird bird to be relying on for testimony.

  67. Happy to add some substance from the real world as it exists. But I feel low because of the technical problems with posting the picture, so I'm gonna go drown my sorrows in some Chalet BBQ. (Just tryin' to make some ex-Montrealers jealous.)

    • The worst part about moving on out to the West Side (High Park) is the utter lack of decent churrasqueiras in the area – sometimes a man just needs some Portuguese chicken with those potato balls smothered in piri piri :)

      mmm….piri piri…

      cheers!

  68. 'Nothing more than a smear campaign' – interesting choice of words considering the real smear was the one that was 'wiped up with a kleenex discovered in the hands of the known sex trade worker when the cops busted in and found Jack pointing at the sky. The other smear is that every NDP supporter out there seems to be blaming the Liberal Party for planting this story. Give it a rest. Liberals are more interested in the issues not 16 year old news.

    • Unless you have evidence that she was a "known sex trade worker" you are lying about that and other things. And hey, genius, they use kleenex to wipe off massage oil too.

  69. Dredging up a 16 year old incident is off limits? Well then, Harper must be very relieved he will no longer have his 1997 speeches as president of the NCC thrown back at him. Oh wait, that's only 14 years old. Practically yesterday.

  70. What with Lorraine Montange calling anglos "gutless scumbags", and Chet asserting that Jack Layton was cavorting with underage prostitutes, my respect for many of my fellow commenters has hit a new all time low. And trust me, it was never all that high to begin with. Some of you should seriously take some time off posting. That's what I do when I start posting retarded things. I know, I know…. all my posts are retarded. But I mean really retarded… if they get really, really really retarded, I take a hiatus from posting. For a few weeks, or even a few months. Then I come back refreshed and ready to resume my usual level of incoherence. I highly recommend some of you do the same.

    • I've done that as well, and think it is excellent advice. I highly recommend leech-blocker (for firefox) or net nanny (for google chrome) for fighting the urge to post my inane opinions. They can be disabled, but the additional time it takes to do so gives me pause to consider whether I really want to go back.

      • Indeed. I think another vacation is in the works for me.

  71. I had no idea that smoke and mirrors journalism could be such fun. Let's talk about Gareth Llewellyn now and who he swears he works for. That's right, just for fun, anyone can do it – enter, Gareth Llewellyn Harper CSIS.

  72. I don't know if this story had anything to do with it (I don't personally think it did), but these latest seat predictions seem to suggest that things are changing.
    http://www.electionalmanac.com/canada/projections