Stephen and Bibi

The Israeli foreign minister calls John Baird to thank Canada for its support and a senior Israeli government official says Benjamin Netanyahu asked Stephen Harper to help exclude any mention of 1967 from the G8′s final statement. Mr. Harper’s office says the two leaders spoke, but the G8 summit was not discussed. Mr. Netanyahu’s office concurs, but the Israeli government thanks the Canadian government all the same.

In cabinet Sunday, Mr. Netanyahu made a point of stating the importance of Israel’s friends. “We have friends around the world, more than many think,” said the Israeli Prime Minister, “and I am pleased to see that on various continents, in various meetings, they rebuffed matters that were not desirable to us.”

“It would not be a mistake to conclude he was referring to Canada,” the Israeli official said. “There is no doubt we view Canada as a great friend of Israel.”




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Stephen and Bibi

  1. Yes, it’s all a vast right-wing/Jewish conspiracy, isn’t it. Sometimes it seems like some people can’t get up in the morning unless they think that.

    • This is a balanced approach to a civil discussion over middle-east policies, is it? Not surprising that people take strong exception to Likud.

      Ricin in the ear anyone?

  2. I wish we would not say anything about the Israel-Palestine issue. It’s a neverending problem over which we cannot exert any influence. Better to spend our political capital on relevant issues. How much political capital did Harper expend to stymie Obama at the G8? And for what, to shore up his chances of winning two or three seats?

    • We just did exert influence, didn’t we. Almost single-handedly. And Harper probably believes he’s doing the right thing – taking a balanced approach to an international issue rather than always bashing Israel.

      • What meaningful influence did we have?

        Modifying a document that no one cares about nor will remember in three months? We scored some points with Israel. Great.

        I’m not saying we should bash Israel. I’m saying we should ignore the situation, because paying attention to it is an utter waste of our time.

        • So, according to you, Obama shouldn’t have even tried to bring it up with the G8 in the first place, right? In fact, according to you, we shouldn’t even have a G8 – a forum where Canada can have a strong voice on the international stage, like it just did. Interesting.

          And people like you always depict defences of Israel as some kind of short-sighted political calculation. Why can’t it be an example of doing the right thing, especially since the politics you site suggest doing the exact opposite?

          • I don’t see what Obama gained by bringing it up at the G8, other than distract the finite amount of attention of the G8 into a futile foreign policy debate.

            Canada can and should participate in foreign policy debates where it makes any sense. This is not one of them. I’m pretty sure this problem with still be there decades after Harper has retired from politics. Neither side is interested in resolving it. It’s a tiny problem facing a few million people in a relatively unimportant part of the world. People only care because it is the ancestral birthplace of the three Semitic religions. The world has bigger problems. Say Libya. About the same number of people affected. We can do something about Libya.

            And what do you mean about ‘people like me’? I just find the whole issue boring. If I had to pick, I’m sympathetic to the Israeli side of the issue, but I think both sides are acting in bad faith. I don’t see how us pontificating is going to make them any more interested in good faith negotiations. And any negotiations will assign infinitesimal weight Canada’s position on the matter. Just what do we add to these debates, other than changing meaningless communiques?

          • I agree with a lot of what you have to say there – except this: The entire world has decided to make the Middle East the most pressing ongoing international issue on Earth. In fact, the context for these recent agitations on the pre-1967 borders is that the Palestinians seem poised to ask for state recognition from the UN in the fall, and the world seems poised to side with them, and against Israel, when that is done. So, to have some voices like Canada trying to bring balance to this international debate I don’t think is a bad thing, nor a futile effort.

          • 1967-border discussion denial is tipping the playing field even further in Likud’s favour toward Obama’s unbalanced toothless proposal, which latter Likud can accept (as a discussion point) or reject anyway, without penalty.

  3. Well this accomplished exactly nothing.

  4. Now, as far as ‘balance’ is concerned, Likud is merely complaining about the realization of longstanding ’67 borders bargaining subtext, to which Obama has realized the usual swap subtext.

    This is nothing more than the uneven playing-field of past decades made explicit: Obama has presented no economic, financial, military or security penalties for Likud’s coming to the table and dickering for the best Gerrymandered areal trade-offs, for resolutely refusing any discussion of 1967 borders, and/or for simply getting up from the game and taking their marbles home, complaining bitterly about Palestinian intransigence, or not coming to the table at all.

    Whereas Obama has required Palestinians to come to the table as a minimum to get merely getting a hearing of their core traditional demands. No change, more of the same.

    And now Mr. Harper has tipped the balance even further in Likud’s favour by taking even 1967 borders from the discussion altogether.

  5. The situation demonstrates a simple inability to govern in independent state and maintain democracy. Any retreat to any state margins back to 67 or any other year would not resolve situation.

    • I don’t support Harper on this issue, we have lost UN security counsel seat because of his support for Israel, and don’t forget that Israel faked Canadian passport before

  6. Obama proposal the return to 1967 lines is acceptable only
    if the Palestinian expresses the willingness to protect the Jewish state and to
    remove the hate and accept the peace.

    That will never happen and borders will never retreat. War
    is imminent and cold-blood attack continues in Iraq, Tunisia, Egypt, Pakistan, and
    Libya.

    Steven Harper has described Arab democracy (equal rights)
    are not matching… as attack against the Christians are on the rise, and it will
    continue against the Jewish state.

  7. Don’t tell Laureen, but nothing gets me hotter than when BiBi whispers in my ear.

  8. How sickening to watch our self-serving, “Christian,” neo-con 19th century throwback PM kow tow to Netanyahu, the leader of a country that is a well documented belligerent, illegal and brutal ethnic-cleanser, occupier/oppressor and serial violator of hard-won international human rights law.  Canada’s international image is once again being dragged in the mud.  While the Harperites cozy up to Israel, the rest of the world, including an ever-increasing number of Canadians and Americans, rightfully view it as a pariah state.

    • I, for one, am glad that Harper stands up to the kind of hatred that you represent.

      • Yup. Harper’s support is worth to Likud at least a solid gram of levofentanyl in some Palestinian’s ear.

        • What I usually say to posters like you is to try to put away the anger in order to produce coherent posts written in English. Thank you.

      • Only the un/misinformed or pro-Israel zealots fail to comprehend that Israel is an exclusionary/expansionist state, a belligerent, illegal and brutal occupier of Palestinian and other Arab lands and is continuing at an accelerating rate to dispossess and oppress the native inhabitants.  Call me old fashioned, but I support and revere the UN Charter, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention among other human rights laws that came about as a consequence of the crimes committed by the Nazis, including the systematic slaughter of 6 million Jews. 

      • “Only the un/misinformed or pro-Israel zealots fail to comprehend that Israel is an exclusionary/expansionist state, a belligerent, illegal and brutal occupier of Palestinian …..”

        Really? What am I un/misinformed about, exactly. 

        David Horowitz, UCLA May 2011,  “Confronting the Anti-Israel Jihad on Campus”:

        I understand why the Left seeks to suppress and silence its opponents. It does so out of fear that it is unable to answer the arguments that conservatives bring to the table. The Left does not want to be in a room with anyone who is ready to point out that these self-proclaimed champions of women and gays and minorities are acting in solidarity with Islamic Nazis who oppress women and are determined to cleanse the world of gays and Jews …. 

        Israel is in fact the only country that is not an apartheid state. Most of the Arab countries of the Middle East exclude Palestinians, which is why the Palestinian refugee camps are still filled 63 years after the 1948 war. There were 800,000 Jewish refugees from Arab states as a result of that war, but they have all been re-settled in Israel. 

        The head of the Palestine Authority has said no Jews will be allowed to live in the Palestinian West Bank. But there are more than a million Muslim Arabs who are citizens of Israel with more rights than the Arabs of any Arab state.
         
        Israel is the only place in the Middle East where an Arab who is gay can live without fear, and the only place where he can march in a Gay Pride parade. There are 57 Muslim countries but not one in which gays can hold gay pride parade. 

        Calling Israel an apartheid state when the reality is as starkly opposite as this can have only one purpose: to inflame the ignorant and the fanatic and incite them to destroy the Jewish State.

        • Get educated:

          Baruch Kimmerling, Professor of Sociology, Hebrew University, Jerusalem:
          “The laws of Israel have become the laws of a master people and the morality
          that of lords of the land.”

          The U.S. State Department’s report on International Religious Freedom:
          “Arabs in Israel…are subject to various forms of discrimination [and the
          government] does not provide Israeli Arabs…with the same quality of
          education, housing, employment opportunities as Jews.”

          Ronnie Kasrils, a key player in the struggle against apartheid, minister
          for intelligence in the current South African government and a devout Jew:
          “The Palestinian minority in Israel has for decades been denied basic
          equality in health, education, housing and land possession, solely because it
          is not Jewish. The fact that this minority is allowed to vote hardly redresses
          the rampant injustice in all other basic human rights. They are excluded from
          the very definition of the ‘Jewish state’, and have virtually no influence on
          the laws, or political, social and economic policies. Hence, their similarity
          to the black South Africans [under apartheid].” (The Guardian, 25 May
          2005)

          Ilan Pappe, political science professor, Haifa University:
          “[Israel's] political system [is] exclusionary, a pro forma democracy -
          going through the motions of democratic rule but essentially being akin to
          apartheid or Herenvolk (‘master race’) democracy.”

          Adi Ophir, philosophy professor at Tel Aviv University: “…the
          adoption of the political forms of an ethnocentric and racist nation-state in
          general, are turning Israel into the most dangerous place in the world for the
          humanity and morality of the Jewish community, for the continuity of Jewish
          cultures and perhaps for Jewish existence itself.”

          • It’s so funny how some people are so insecure and ignorant in their own positions that they have to accuse anyone who dares disagree with them of not being educated. But you go on spewing your anit-Israeli rants. It’s doing so much for your credibility. Thanks.

          • Dennis_F

            Why do you bother to comment?  You only demonstrate that you know nothing about the subject and when confronted by the truth all you can do is whine.

          • I “bother to comment” because in places like Canada and Israel, which you seem to detest so much, people have the right to speak out against your kind of vile and one-sided resentment of a people.

          • Yet another “comment” devoid of any consequence.

          • If being educated is being like you, no thanks.

            “”Another indication that Arab rulers coordinated the expulsion of Jews from their terrorites ….. Similar patterns of Jewish exodus existed in other Arabic-speaking countries, including Yemen, Libya, Syria, Egypt, Algeria and Jordan

            Isam as-Sirtawi, who participated in some well-known terrorist operations but later excelled in seeking contact with the Israelis, told Ha-’Olam Ha-zé editor Uri Avneir that he gave up terrorism against Israel and instead began promoting negotiations when he realized that Israel serves as the asylum for Jews expelled from Arab countries; and that there is no going back along that path.”

             Why Jews Fled the Arab Countries, Middle East Quarterly, 1995

          • So the best you can do is quote from the Middle East Quarterly, a publication specializing in Hasbara.

            I repeat, get educated:

            Rabbi Sassoon
            Kehdouri, Iraq’s
            Chief Rabbi for 48 years, speaking before the 1946 Anglo-American Committee of
            Enquiry on Palestine:
            “Iraqi Jews will be forever against Zionism.  Jews and Arabs have enjoyed the same rights
            and privileges for a thousand years and do not regard themselves as a
            distinctive separate part of this nation.”

             
            Chaim Weizmann, Israel’s
            first president, also addressing the 1946 Anglo-American Committee of Enquiry: “I would not like to do any injustice.
            The Muslim world has treated the Jews with considerable tolerance. The Ottoman Empire [of which the Arabs were a major part]
            received the Jews with open arms
            when they were driven out of Spain
            and Europe, and the Jews should never forget
            that.”

          • All you’re doing is quoting from rabid anti-Israeli Israelis and Jews, who are a tiny minority but allowed to express their opinions, unlike anti-terrorist Palestinians who get hanged for being “collaborators.” And then when someone dares disagree with you, you call them uneducated. So, you’re intolerant, unsophisticated, and not very respectful of democratic dialogue. Thanks.

          • Dennis
            You’re only making a fool of yourself.
            To describe Chaim Wiezmann, Israel’s first president and Rabbi Kehdouri as “rabid anti-Israeli Israelis” is stupidity beyond words.
            Your problem is that you live in a Hasbara induced fantasy land and are unable to cope with having your delusions shattered. 

          • You hate it when people disagree with your enraged one-sided view of this conflict, don’t you. Cherry-picking quotes is hardly a sign of being educated, pal. lol

          • Your responses get more and more pathetic and desperate.  Face it, you have nothing of consequence to say.  You know nothing about the subject.

          • Actually, I’m very well read on the topic. You, on the other hand, simply spew anti-Israeli nonsense on here, and get outraged when sensible people dare to disagree.

        • Re Arab Jewish refugees:

          To quote Yehouda Shenhav, professor of sociology and anthropology at Tel
          Aviv University and of Iraqi heritage: “Any reasonable person, Zionist or
          non-Zionist, must acknowledge that the analogy drawn between Palestinians and
          Mizrahi [Arab] Jews is unfounded. Palestinian refugees did not want to leave
          Palestine….Those who left did not do so of their own volition. In contrast,
          Jews from Arab lands came to this country under the initiative of the State of
          Israel and Jewish organizations.” (Ha’aretz, 8 October 2004)

          Avi Shlaim, eminent Israeli historian born into an affluent and
          influential Jewish family in Baghdad: “We are not refugees, nobody
          expelled us from Iraq, nobody told us that we were unwanted. But we are the
          victims of the Israeli-Arab conflict.” (Ha’aretz, August 11, 2005)

          Ran Cohen, member of the Knesset: “I am not a refugee….I came at
          the behest of Zionism, due to the pull that this land exerts, and due to the
          idea of redemption. Nobody is going to define me as a refugee.” (Ha’aretz,
          8/10/04)

          The late Yisrael Yeshayahu, speaker of the Knesset: “We are not
          refugees. [Some of us] came to this country before the state was born. We had
          messianic aspirations.”

          Shlomo Hillel, former minister and speaker of the Knesset: “I don’t
          regard the departure of Jews from Arab lands as that of refugees. They came
          here because they wanted to, as Zionists.”

          Also, any legitimate grievances Arab Jewish emigrants may have with Arab
          governments can be pursued through international law. It must be noted,
          however, that whereas the expulsion of over one million Palestinians from Palestine
          between late 1947 and 1967, was carried out by Jewish forces (Irgun, Sternists,
          Haganah) and the IDF, Palestinians played no role whatsoever in the departure
          of Jews from Arab countries. In short, apples and oranges.

        • One example of
          apartheid within Israel

          http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1134898.html
          Ha’aretz, Dec.14/09: “Jewish town won’t let Arab build home on his own
          land ”

          Excerpt:
          “Aadel Suad first came to the planning and construction committee of the
          Misgav Local Council in 1997. Suad, an educator, was seeking a construction
          permit to build a home on a plot of land he owns in the community of Mitzpeh
          Kamon. The reply he got, from a senior official on the committee, was a
          memorable one. ‘Don’t waste your time,’ he reportedly told Suad. ‘We’ll keep
          you waiting for 30 years.’ ”

          On 20 March 2011 ye­t another apartheid law was passed in
          Israel. This new law allows Jewish settlement­s built on state land inside
          Israel not to admit Israeli Palestinia­n citizens as residents and legalizes
          the wish of these new settlers not to sell land to the Palestinia­ns citizens
          of the state. This is one of many such laws passed recently. The loyalty oath
          law that turns the Palestinia­ns in Israel to second class citizens by law and
          one which does not allow them to live with their Palestinia­ns spouses from the
          occupied territorie­s are two of the more famous apartheid laws passed
          recently.

          • “Ha’aretz, Dec.14/09: “Jewish town won’t let Arab build home on his own land ”

            Are we practicing apartheid within Ontario as well? 

            “Welcome to the Ontario Building Code’s new website. The look and feel has changed, but you can still find the same information on qualification and registration, available training, dispute resolution, news on recent code developments, and more.”  

            http://www.mah.gov.on.ca/Page7393.aspx

          • What a joke!!  You only indicate how desperate you are.
            Please provide the section of the Building Code that denies a land owner the right to build on his/her land because of his/her religion.

          • “Canada’s first nations are potentially wealthy landlords, with land reserves totalling nearly three million hectares …. This land base represents an economic asset that could make a major contribution to raising first nations’ standard of living …..  But such developments are often impeded by an inadequate framework of property rights”

            Globe/Mail, March 22, 2010

          • Give your head a shake.  The two situations are incomparable.  While first nations people have been treated unjustly, they have access to the courts whereas injustice perpetrated against Palestinians regarding state land is now part of Israeli law.  As I noted in a posting above:

            “On 20 March 2011 ye­t another apartheid law was passed in Israel. This new law allows Jewish settlement­s built on state land inside Israel not to admit Israeli Palestinia­n citizens as residents and LEGALIZES the wish of these new settlers not to sell land to the Palestinia­ns citizens of the state.”

            I further remind you that Aadel Suad, the Palestinian I referred to in the same posting above was denied the right to build on land HE ALREADY OWNED because he is not Jewish, i.e,. the very defininition of apartheid.  

      • Such is the fate of collaborators, i.e., traitors in any conflict involving resistance to illegal and brutal occupation.  I assume you have some knowledge what happened to collaborators during WWII in occupied France, Poland, Russia, Holland etc.

        • Do you want me hanged too for daring to challenge your hateful view of this issue?

          • Inane response.  Unworthy of further comment.

  9. Some good news regarding the struggle for justice and human rights:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1392259/Cameron-cuts-ties-Jewish-charity-hailed-pro-Palestine-campaigners.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

    Daily Mail, 30 May 2011

    “[British Prime Minister] Cameron Cuts His Ties With Jewish charity in move hailed by pro-Palestine campaigners”

    Excerpt:

    “David Cameron has resigned as a patron of a
    top Jewish charity in a move hailed by pro-Palestinian campaigners.

    “The Prime Minister has cut ties with the
    Jewish National Fund, which describes itself as Britain’s leading Jewish
    charity.

    “Downing Street insisted the decision was taken
    as part of a wider review of the Prime Minister’s involvement with
    charities.

    “But the move is a break with convention, as
    Tony Blair and Gordon Brown both stayed on as patrons while at Number
    10.

    “Mr Cameron has already experienced controversy
    when it comes to affairs in the Middle East – on a trip to Turkey last July he
    caused huge offence by calling Gaza a ‘prison camp’.

    “His latest move will be another disappointment
    to the government of Israel.”
    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1392259/Cameron-cuts-ties-Jewish-charity-hailed-pro-Palestine-campaigners.html#ixzz1NsH8ylCC

  10. A better title might be “Netanyahu and his trusty sidekick Yipi-yipi-yahoo.”

    Cowboy diplomacy at it’s best.

  11. The G&M has been doing a series of articles on this topic.   They have to get rid of Hamas.

    “The article states that “a generation of Hamas leaders, now mostly in their 60s, that wants to deal, that’s willing to agree to establishing a Palestinian state within Gaza and the West Bank as defined by the Green Line, the ceasefire line that separated Israelis from Jordanian and Egyptian forces until June, 1967.
    But, as the article goes on to explain, whenever these Hamas leaders discuss such an idea, they make clear that this is a temporary measure. It’s designed to get a state that can be used as a platform for destroying Israel. The PLO accepted such a “two-stage strategy” more than 35 years ago but no one thought that was moderate at the time.”

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/opinion/shunning-hamas-not-just-about-israel/article2040745/singlepage/#articlecontent

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