Give mom a cigarette break

They may say they’re going out for milk, but secret smokers go to great lengths to feed their habit

by Rebecca Eckler

Give mom a cigarette break

Photograph by Jenna Marie Wakani

The first rule of the Secret Smokers Mother’s Club is that you don’t talk about the Secret Smokers Mother’s Club. At least you don’t talk about it to anyone who is a non-smoker and especially to mothers who are non-smokers.

Like Alcoholics Anonymous, none of the mothers who secretly smoke are willing to share their names. It makes sense, since many of them have kept their secret for years. “I never smoke in front of my kids. Never. No one in my life knows I smoke, except for one person and that is my husband. But no one else,” says one member.

According to reports, one in two smokers hides their habit from friends, family and colleagues. And, boy, do these women go to great lengths to keep this secret from their children. “If Noah is watching television and my husband is with him, I’ll take out the garbage, then run around the house and hide in the bushes, because I don’t even want my neighbours to see that I’m a mother who smokes. I feel disgusting about it,” she admits.

But that hasn’t stopped her from smoking, even after two children, and she has no plans to quit. “Because you know people judge smokers anyways, but mothers who smoke? To non-smokers, they’d consider that worth stoning me.”

Club members end up doing a lot of unnecessary chores to get their fix. “I’ll run out to the all-night grocery store,” says one mother. “I’ll tell my husband we’re out of milk, but usually we are anyway. And this store is not close. I don’t go to the store near my house, because I worry I’ll run into people I know. I go to another grocery store that takes me about 30 minutes to get there, so I get a couple of cigarettes in before I go back home.”

But do they notice the smell? These mothers resort to more subterfuge to mask the lingering aroma of smoke. “As soon as I come back from smoking, I wash my hands, my chest, I brush my teeth, and I have clean shirts all over the house, so I can immediately change into one of them,” says one mother.

Another member’s purse could be mistaken for an Avon lady’s kit because she has so many supplies. “I keep a small tube of toothpaste and toothbrush. I have a big bottle of body lotion that smells like vanilla. I have face cream that I rub all over my face. And I have a body spray from Victoria’s Secret that I spray in my hair and all over my clothes.”

This mother also got a great tip from a makeup-artist friend who sometimes smokes. She now carries around Downy April Fresh or Bounce sheets meant for the dryer. “I rub it on my hair and it works amazingly well. Also, they are really small to carry around, which makes it easier.”

If it takes so much energy to keep smoking a secret, why not just quit? These women know the health risks and they have children they’d like to see grow up. “It’s the one last thing of my old life,” explains one. “It’s mine and it’s all mine.” Another adds, “Because I sometimes like to be bad, and as a mother you can’t be bad.”

Then there is the dark side of the addiction. “I really love smoking so much,” says one. “I sometimes find that I’m waiting for my kids to take a nap so I can go smoke. And as awful as this sounds, I’m excited my son will be going to daycare in the afternoons this fall.” Another admits that when she’s having a nicotine fit, she loses her temper with her children more often.

But even though they puff away in secret, they look down on mothers who smoke openly around their children. “When I see a mother smoking, all I can think is, ‘You disgusting wretch,’ ” says one. “When I see a mother smoking and pushing a baby in a stroller, I’m horrified. But who am I to judge? At night, I’m in the bushes putting out my cigarettes in a beer bottle.”




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Give mom a cigarette break

  1. this is so true, especially the last paragraph! I don’t do it on a daily basis but on the rare occasion that I may have a few drinks I instantly crave a cigarette. I tend to always keep a pack on hand like a security blanket, knowing they’re there is enough most of the time.

    • I had a girlfriend once who didn’t smoke. She had quit many years before. She got with a guy who smoked a lot and they drank together so eventually she began to smoke when she drank. With in a year she was drinking a lot more than she ever had before and in two years she ended up drinking so much that she had to go to treatment. Can anyone guess why she began drinking so much more than ever before?

      • That’s right class she had decided she would only smoke when she drank so in order to full fill her ever increasing nicotine addiction and maintain her own self imposed delusional boundary she had to increase her drinking time! She has made that ridiculous boundary for herself so she wouldn’t fall back into her previous addiction to it.

        THE FIRST SIGN OF A SERIOUS NICOTINE ADDICTION IS SMOKING!

  2. I don’t smoke so what do I know, but can’t you get your fix from the nicotine patch?

  3. so true,i feel the same,i try to hide from the kids, but i can;t . some situations make me smoke in front of them.

    • Honestly you are only deluding yourself. Lies are lies are lies and living with a constant lie creates a culture of dishonesty. Your children may not know why you are angry and trying  to get away from them so they will internalize those nic fit messages and when they grow up and find out you are lying how are they going to understand what matters to you?

      Use the patch or chew the gum and stop being a victim to the tobacco companies which have told you it is too hard to quit and it is the only pleasure you have and it is something oyu give yourself and oyu have a right to some pleasure.

      None of those things are the truth and that guy who is advocating the addiction is from the industry no doubt or so heavily addicted he is completely stupefied! Stop that’s all you have to do and in the end you will see clearly that if you weren’t addicted to a toxic substance you would have the sense god gave a dog and get away from the stuff. My dog hates being around tobacco smoke….duh! Of course it stinks and it makes it hard to breath!

      Get help but stop lying to yourself.

    • Here is a perfect example of what I am saying right here. What will happen is you don’t have a smoke right then? We all know what will happen. You will not be able to control your emotions and you will freak out on the kids! It is happening everywhere everyday and we won’t stop it for the kids!

      John can say anything he wants the evidence is right here that a nicotine addict says “Some situations make me smoke in front of them,” So A:Your boundaries are out the door and B you make it seem urgent so it is that you are so irritaed you are in a rage. That is dangerous and not fair to the children You are addicted and dangerous and you are justifying it in the same delusional lies that you all tell. Get the patch. It will keep your emotions running along as they should be. Steady and not a roller coaster. Addiction and parenting DO NOT GO TOGETHER NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE TELLS YOU IT IS A CRIME AGAINST CHILDREN!

  4. I feel sorry for these mothers who think they are doing some
    great evil. If you want to smoke, smoke openly. There’s nothing wrong with you.

     

    People seem to have no grasp of history. Anti-tobacco and
    anti-alcohol were the pet obsessions of the Temperance and Eugenics fanatics
    earlier last century in America
    (and Eugenics in Nazi Germany). It is these fanatics, these fake moralists,
    that wreaked havoc and catastrophe. They brought out the worst in people.

    http://www.americanheritage.com/content/thank-you-not-smoking

     

    The current anti-smoking bigotry bandwagon is in the
    eugenics tradition. The current antismoking assault was decided upon by a group
    of unelected neurotic bigots operating under the auspices of the World Health
    Organization. And there is now a lot of money in promoting the bigotry.

    http://www.rampant-antismoking.com

     

    It is the fanatics that need to be scrutinized for the
    mental, social, and moral damage they are doing.

     

    • Not evil just a serious addiction that negatively impacts everything in ones life even if we hide it. And honestly if one is hiding something in shame then perhaps they should rethink doing it.

  5. Newsflash: other people DO know. You cannot hide the reek. End of story. The sad, pitiful joke is on you, not the people you think you’re fooling. 

  6. This is tragic, the choice of smoking or not smoking is not a moral or ethical one.
    The anti-smoking, hate-fear and loathing campaign in action.

    • I agree that addiction is not a moral or ethical issue. But how that addiction is managed is. Unlike the vast majority of smokers, these women are doing everything they can to ensure that they do not harm their families. That is most definitely an ethical choice.

      For decades smokers have waged a determined hate-fear and loathing campaign against anyone who wanted consideration and responsibility from them. This resulted in what you call the “anti-smoking hate-fear and loathing campaign” and I call the “inevitable backlash to smokers’ contempt and irresponsibility toward others.” It’s never been about smoking or what smokers do to themselves. It has always been about how smokers treat others and their environment.

      Far from seeing the behaviour of these moms as tragic, I see them as wonderful examples. They prove that addicts don’t have to be irresponsible, selfish jerks. Their families are very lucky to have such caring moms and wives. These women deserve respect, not pity.

      • More delusional thinking and justification and simplification It is an addiction If they were hitting crack but doing it on the sly you would not be so magnanimous and sympathetic. It is the social acceptability of tobacco which is caused by the tobacco lobby which has suppressed opposition and research and the truth It is the same as crack and it should be treated as equally dangerous and in fact it is far more dangerous. 

      • How can you say that? Crack heads hide their addiction from everyone that does not mean they are not suffering from the addiction or being nice to anyone. These Mom’s are exactly like every other Nicotine addict and they will rage when they can not get their drug and they stink when they do get it and they are lying to themselves and everyone else because eventually and more and more often they will lose control in front of and at their children if the children get between them and their  fix! In prisons and airplanes all over the world it has been proven over and over that they can not be separated from their drug for long without freaking out and can you imagine a 2 year old being able to defend themselves or they will internalize the rage and believe they are the problem that Mommy has to get away from right now!!!!

        • GnomeAlice:  Are you getting a little hot under the collar?  Let me know
          where you got all the answers because I could certainly benefit from
          knowing everything about everyone and their situation.  I am the mother
          of 3 small children and every night after they are tucked snug in their
          beds I must admit I sneak outside to the porch to secretly indulge in
          one cigarette.  It may seem ridiculous but this time is all for me and I
          can’t imagine giving it up anytime soon.  I am also a school teacher
          and would feel humiliated if anyone in my community or family discovered
          my late night ritual. I realize the consequences of my actions and have
          chosen to continue on my path.  Is it fair that I am made to feel
          inadequate because of my guilty pleasure?   Whether choice or addiction
          why don’t you just cut us all some slack.  I don’t publicly judge and
          ostracize you and yours for allowing your children to watch
          inappropriate television, play violent video games and have access to
          social networking sites.  (All of which, in my opinion, are more of a
          detriment to society than sneaking a smoke here and there, but I will
          spare you the lecture because I believe ‘to each their own’.)  As
          responsible members of the community we have been given the opportunity
          to make our own decisions.  As long as we are not hurting others along
          the way I would suggest that you and like minded others should ‘butt
          out’.

        • This is complete hyperbole here. I quit smoking and drugs almost a decade ago. There was a huge difference between my drug addiction and my addiction to cigarettes.

          There is a huge difference between these mothers smoking in secret and drug addicts. You sound so idiotic, I suggest you stop.

          • Cigarrettes are made of Tobacco, which delivers the drug nicotine. All nicotine users are drug addicts.

          • Coffee is made from a bean, which delivers the drug caffeine. All caffeine users are drug addicts.
            In other words, spare me the resorting to emotional/psychological word games in order to denigrate. It’s transparent.

    • There is no more :”choice” in that addiction then there is in any other addiction. Why do you think you have a choice? If it was a choice who on earth would chose to smoke tobacco?? That is just silly! You are shooting yourself in the foot. Is it an addiction or a choice? And there is nothing tragic about the opposition to the poisoning of our streets and planet. The rest of us live here you know.

      • Who would choose to smoke tobacco? I chose to smoke it for years. I enjoyed it. You do realize that smokers enjoy/love smoking? Yeah, it’s addictive and part of that is that it is enjoyable for many.

  7. “… people judge smokers anyways …”

    I can’t believe smokers still don’t get it. No one judges them for their addiction. We are just fed up with the irresponsible and contemptuous way the vast majority of smokers treat the rest of us. If all smokers were as considerate and tolerant toward others and their environments as these moms are toward their families, they would find a huge difference in how they are treated.

    I have nothing but sympathy for these moms and respect for the lengths they go to in order to protect their families from the consequences of their addiction. I wish all smokers who aren’t ready to quit would at least commit to being truly considerate of others and responsible for their behaviour. Addiction can happen to anyone predisposed to it, but at least these women are doing the best they can to avoid harming others. They have nothing to be ashamed of.

    • I wish there were two like buttons!

      • However I would add that the Mom;s are going ot have residual negative effects because they sometimes have to get a hit when they can’t and so then they are going to be volitie and raging and blaming the kids for things and yelling and short tempered until they get the hit so really they are better but not good.

  8. “I can’t believe smokers still don’t get it.”

     

    U92, so you think it’s smokers that don’t get it? It’s
    actually antismokers and dills that are led by the nose by their inflammatory
    propaganda that don’t get it. What we are seeing now has all been seen before
    with catastrophic effect. Antismoking has a long, twisted history. There were
    two major antismoking crusades last century, one in America
    produced by the Temperance Movement and, most importantly, Eugenics and the other
    was later in Nazi Germany produced by Eugenics.

     

    U92, do you have any clue what is actually going on? Well,
    let me help you. At the moment, smokers have been tossed out of the indoors,
    there is the attempt to toss them out of the outdoors, they are being denied
    access to fostering/adoption, they are being terminated from or denied
    employment, they are being denied housing – even the elderly. They are being
    denied access to medical treatment. They are being charged compounded
    extortionate taxes.

     

    And it has nothing to do with health or facts. It has to do
    with social engineering – obsession with control, a favorite eugenics
    obsession, led by physicians. If you go to earlier crusades, there was a
    plethora of inflammatory propaganda (lies) where the sole intent was for the
    social engineers to get their way. They are fanatics: They don’t operate by
    honesty and integrity. Their only goal is to get their way by whatever means.
    And when the derangement gets rolling, it corrupts everything, beginning with
    the medical establishment, academia, and government. How much do you think you’ve
    heard over the last 30 years about smoking and environmental tobacco smoke is
    accurate? Do you have any idea how claims are arrived at?

     

    • Do you? Where is your evidence John? Let’s see it. You can’t really say how it effects me and my kids on the street can you DO I have any rights? Where is the evidence that I do not have any rights? And where is your evidence that the WHO is wrong? Come on let’s see it!

      You can not refute the victims of tobacco and nicotine’s real experience of living as victims of nicotine rages and second hand smoke in fact the only reason you can try to dispute anything is because you are a delusional addict and you will do and say anything and dismiss all other arguments to justify your wrong! You are not suffering from any kind of discrimination and if the tobacco lobby had not had so much power to make profit you would not be addicted and oyu would not be delusional!
      Sorry guy but the truth hurts You are a sick puppy who is working backwards for his community. Why defend an addiction that is so obviously dangerous? BECAUSE YOU NEED IT BECAUSE YOU ARE A CRACK HEAD FOR NICOTINE! POOR JOHN!

      You know how I know Johnny boy? I was you. And now that I am free I can only feel sorry for you but that will do it right agree or sympathy you don’t care you can make anything into approval! Is this making you a little hot under the collar John? I’ll bet it is.

      • So you’re indicating a tobacco industry conspiracy, Mal? That’s wonderful. Thank you so much.

    • The reasons they are being terminated from jobs is because they are bossy and mean and the stink and they have to go out and take 10 minute breaks every 20 minutes and they are irrational if they don’t get to smoke right freaking now and if the foster system have stopped them from having foster kids then we are evolving. Why would we want children in the arms of people who can’t even control their own addictions? People who can not tell the truth or even discern the truth? Any addictions?

      Parenting is a responsibility and it is important to role model to children that you respect their rights and addicts do not respect anyone, not even themselves and the are rageful and toxic and you are still delusional John. Lawyers here are not allowed to smoke because nicotine addicts are irrational every 20 minutes It is difficult to get through an interesting class in school if there are addicts there because they agitate for a break and they don’t want to miss anything so everyone has to stop They reduce productivity every where and they make horrible parents who can’t drive safely and not smoke in the car because their frustration levels are so low that if they can’t smoke the are dangerous.

      Please “Nazi’s” lets talk about how it effect me in my own life today John! I have to walk on the street with my kids through clouds of toxic smoke! I have to be the victim of the rage a holics if I ask them to stop. People like you who unlike the other crack head believe they have right to pollute my streets.

      • Mal, watch the potty-mouth.

  9. (cont’d)

    The current antismoking crusade, which continues in the
    eugenics tradition, was planned in the mid-1970s by a small, unelected,
    self-installed clique. It involved stigmatizing/denormalizing (a vulgar,
    favorite technique of eugenics) and indoor and outdoor smoking bans. And this
    was years before the first manufactured study on environmental tobacco smoke.
    The fascist goal is to put so much duress on smokers (or any other of their
    targets) so that they will submit and do as they’re told; if they do not submit,
    the State will make life difficult for them.

     

    So, U92, you’ll have to forgive me if I can’t take you too
    seriously. At the moment you are clueless, an unwitting bigot maybe, a fake “moralist”.
    Unfortunately, the deranged social engineers rely on people like you who don’t
    question anything they say or do and just lap up all the propaganda.

     

    U92, I would strongly suggest you go and study the eugenics
    that occurred in America
    and Germany in
    the first half of the last century. By the 1920s, 33 American states had
    sterilization laws, Prohibition had been passed, and there was the constant
    attempt to pass a tobacco version of Prohibition. Eugenics (physicians,
    biologists, statisticians) socially engineering the human “herd” is a dangerous
    philosophy. What would possess all those American states and then Nazi Germany
    to embrace this perverse framework? It was the seductive lie that if society
    was handed over to the eugenicists, fraudulently promoted as scientific and
    scholarly, where they would micromanage everyone’s lives that they would put an
    end to poverty, disease, and crime, using such emotive slogans as “saving lives”
    and “for the children”. Rather, they brought out the worst in human nature.
    Note: neo-eugenicists don’t use the word “eugenics”. But if you look at the
    current obsession with physical health and the belief that that is the entirety
    of health, that IS the eugenics framework whether they call it so or not.

     

      • SB, you must have used all two of your neurons for that
        vacuous retort. You probably even think you’re humorous. Bad news, SB.

         

        • John it does not have to be lengthy to refute your arguments which are quite delusional. It is an addiction not a right and it interferes with my right to enjoy my life without crack heads demanding that I inhale their second hand smoke. I am sure you do not believe crack should be allowed everywhere.

          The only difference is the tobacco lobby has pushed to make this drug legal but it is not a right or a freedom. It is drug slavery and it kills more people than all other drugs and drunk driving and drinking together. And not only the addicts!
          And the nicotine addicted population is wantonly polluting our waterways with toxins and butts Look it up it is the largest source of pollution off the coast and on the beaches of California. If the public or children could chose you would not be allowed to smoke anywhere and it is coming and it is about fraking time I personally am sick to death of your demanding and whining There are real problems on this planet and nicotine addicts are holding us all back. Is that enough John now go back on your meds will ya!? Ya said pathetic delkusioanl little addict. You are not responsible for what you are saying obviously or you would never have said that!

      • I like your twitter page Thank you from everyone I know!

    • John is as delusional as all nicotine addicts! Make the same case for crack John! Make the case for why my Grandkids and I should be forced to walk through clouds of toxic smoke and why you and your co horts should be allowed to toss your toxic garbage all ovet the streets and pollute the world and the water ways.
      That is delusional completely a perfect example when a person begins with a false idea and extrapolates it into a stupid theory to justify their own inability to thin past their addiction. I know booze hounds have all kinds of reason and theories about why they should have the “right” to be whatever kind of dufus they want to be too. There is no right to poison oneself or others.
      There are zero redeeming socially important qualities to tobacco. Other than making huge profits on your addiction it could be non existent and it should be banned and it will be a controlled substance as soon as we can make it that. You are a tobacco nazi who will do and say anything stupid thing you can to help people fail to overcome their horrible addiction to the drug. Shame on you NO ONE WANTS TO SMOKE TOBACCO! If it was easy to quit people would not smoke of course. It stinks it makes you mean and stupid and a sociopath.

      These Moms are delusional if they think the symptoms and the smell and the toxicity are not there because they are hiding and lying! That is a symptom, the willingness to do something shameful and that leads to more shame and self abuse. QUIT FIND EVERY POSSIBLE WAY TO QUIT YOU ARE NOT FOOLING ANYONE BUT YOURSELF AND FOR THE MAGAZINE TO MAKE IT SEEMS LIKE A CUTE LITTLE HABIT MEANS THEY ARE DOING A TOBACCO COMMERCIAL IT’S CALLED PRODUCT PLACEMENT! Any reference to the drug that is positive reinforces the acceptance of it in the delusional addicted mind Shame on you McLeans I guess the writer is an addict or it would not have been so soft and fluffy. No non addict would have been so supportive. This is a very serious problem.

  10. ANd they are bad tempered and rough with their children due to nic fits! Just like air rage only at children and they are running out on their kids and often blaming their kids for them needing to get away! What are you doing advertising for the tobacco companies. This is not a harmless little addiction. The up and down emotional roller coaster is related to nicotine withdrawal and they are almost always unpleasant and intolerant when there is any stress and they can’t get to a smoke. I have lived for years with a rage a holic only to find out he is smoking and lying and raging to get out of the house to smoke so exposing us to terrible short temperedness. If these women were honest they would acknowledge this and the pollution and the toxins My goodness this is not a good thing in anyway!

    You have an obligation not to endanger your children and to be nice to them. How can you smoke and maintain your addiction when it is not in the best interest of your children and smoking endangers them and lowers their quality of life because yours is lower.

    If your children could chose they would chose that you don’t smoke! Shame on you for being so weak and putting a poison before your children.

  11. Gnome, take a breath before you flip your neurotic, bigoted
    lid. With the wild, crazed, sanctimonious comments you are making, you would
    have fitted in perfectly with the Temperance movement of a century ago. You’re
    the one who’s [way] out of control; you’re spewing bile-filled drivel ad nauseam.
    If you want to know what’s dangerous, take a good, hard look in the mirror.

     

    • Name calling does not mean anything. Have some nicotine and get some facts together otherwise you are just an uninformed addict doing your community no favours. Just another crack head who loves crack so much that he thinks it is a benefit to something.

      You are hooked so your opinion is meaningless and your information is just plain wrong and the reason I piss you off is I am talking about the real here and now daily personal family damage your addiction causes and you can’t handle the truth.

    • And again if it was crack we were talking about there would be no question that Mom’s should not be sneaking out to smoke it. The times they are a changing. I hope soon crack and nicotine addiction will have the same social standing.
      If we agree that smokers are nuts on airplanes and in prisons when deprived of nicotine and  that they are dangerous what chance does anyone think a three year old in the back seat of a car driven by one of these addicts who is not allowed by law to get a hit in protection of the children?
      It is so odd that you think you can just tell someone else that their own experience is not true! Only a delusional addict could do that. So sad.

    • This is a quote from your argument against a ban on smoking John,
      “U92, do you have any clue what is actually going on? Well,
      let me help you. At the moment, smokers have been tossed out of the indoors,
      there is the attempt to toss them out of the outdoors, they are being denied
      access to fostering/adoption, they are being terminated from or denied
      employment, they are being denied housing – even the elderly. They are being
      denied access to medical treatment. They are being charged compounded
      extortionate taxes.”

      I see that you think these measures are a bad thing! That is why I say you are delusional. When would we foster kids to crack heads or let old people do crack in nursing homes? And medical resources are for people who are not intentionally killing themselves and making others sick by their own choice! Most non smokers would question your point. It is not discrimination or any more infringement of your human rights then the “right to drive drunk”. It is a matter of public health and safety and the rights of the non smoking victims of your drug addiction which are littered everywhere in the world. THERE IS NO SOCIALLY REDEEMING TO TOBACCO IT IS ALL ABUSE! It is a dangerous substance and it make many of us ill and there is no redeemable reason for us to just swallow!

      There are no redeeming qualities to a woman not being able to get through the day with her children with out her heart speeding up until she feels as if her brain will explode and trying to care about vulnerable children. IF KIDS COULD CHOSE THERE WOULD BE NO NICOTINE ADDICTION! It is not fair or just or anywhere near honest and children are not stupid the absorb all of that negative behavior and place it directly upon themselves. You are telling them they are making you crazy and oyu have to get away from them because you feel that way but you feel that way because your body is demanding a drug! JUST LIKE CRACK and nicotine has serious rage side effects YOU KNOW THAT!

      Do you deal in nicotine John that you are helping people stay in this horrible expensive deadly addiction? What could be wrong with you that your justification is so deep? You have had these conversations before. Perhaps with those you loved and who once loved you? You have had to find ways to create approve of yourself. I can tell because I know a couple of other people like you. You have gone so far off the path that you are trying to push young responsible Moms onto the path with you. I am pretty sure you are a lonely old guy with few friends and it is most likely because of this destructive and delusional excuse for your own inability to overcome your own addiction. Good luck with that.

      • Do I deal in nicotine? Mal, you’re not suggesting a conspiracy, are you?

  12. Gnome: “Name calling does not mean anything.”

    Well you’ve just dismissed all of your ranting and raving;
    your mind-boggling, hate-laden blather-fest is comprised of ONLY name-calling.
    (LOL)

    Gnome, your mind seems to be running at 100 miles an hour.
    Are you on something (multiple things)?

    Gnome: “…..that your justification is so deep?”

    The current antismoking crusade has legitimized all sorts of
    fanaticism. Fanaticism “normalizes” fanaticism. For example, the current
    fanaticism has made it appear, i.e., a destructive illusion, that someone with
    your thinking has the “moral high ground”. Gnome, I’ve got to say that if by
    quitting smoking someone can become more like you and your “thinking”, then
    that would be a really good….. no… excellent reason to keep smoking.

    Have you taken that look in the mirror yet? I hope you are
    able to overcome your extreme fear and hate.

    P.S. Feel free to carry on with your long-winded piffle
    frenzy. After all, someone who understands as much as you with your finger on
    the pulse of the universe really doesn’t need anyone else in the “conversation”,
    certainly not a CRACK HEAD FOR NICOTINE addict that you think I am.

    • See again zero evidence and a bunch of SMOKE and mirrors. Evidence my friend let’s talk evidence.

      Let’s hear you theory as to exactly how Moms for example do not rage when they can not get to nicotine? Yet anyone else in any other circumstance when they are away from their drug they are raging and violent? Or let’s talk about my right to live in my city without toxic smoke in my face and those of my grandchildren?

      Just answer that any one thing…how do you think it is ok for you to take away the rights of others and how is it you are selling a bad idea to poor suffering drug addicts. What redeeming qualities are there in tobacco addiction? What socially redeeming or health or safety qualities are there? How is it that you believe the stuff you say about nicotine but you can’t make the connection with crack?

      In fact you can not answer my legitimate questions because your opinion is delusional and based in ignorance and you are just trying to justify the terrible losses you have suffered from remaining addicted to the drug and you have zero answers for why the rest of us should suffer from your inability to control yourself! JUST LIKE CRACK ADDICTS!

    • Run your self deluding irrational “ideas” past any addictions councilor. You are a normal addict. All addicts tell themselves and try to tell the rest of the world the delusional lies that they have to to allow themselves to continue their addiction. Justifications of your own tobacco addiction that you can not control so you try to make it right but you can not. All of the stuff you say are lies. And you are not really answering anything about the rights of others. You are a bad example for the world. I hope one day you see the error of your ways. You are doing damage to your society but I guess you have to = to make yourself feel as if you are intelligent and important and in control but if you were you would never even do that to yourself much less try to convince others that crack is ok.

    • See still no answers!

    • Funny you say hate as I am not in the least bit hateful nor am I angry I am just right and you are not. In fact I am a loving sweet experienced intelligent giving Grandmother Mom and community activist ex smoker and I contribute enormously to my community especially by being an appropriate role model for those who are struggling with this terrible disease.
      I am absolutely sure no one would call any of the things I have said to you hateful. Attack all you like you are just proving my point that you are full of rage at anyone who believes something different than you and you have to make stuff up because you can’t find any real information to prove your point. And buddy said one line and you said it wasn’t enough so I thought you don’t get it and maybe you need a long explanation.

      YOU CAN’T COME UP WITH ONE SINGLE GOOD POINT ABOUT NICOTINE ADDICTION!

  13. Alice: “Funny you say hate as I am not in the least bit hateful nor am I angry I am just
    right and you are not. In fact I am a loving sweet experienced intelligent
    giving Grandmother Mom and community activist ex smoker and I contribute enormously
    to my community especially by being an appropriate role model for those who are
    struggling with this terrible disease.”

    Well THAT is a terrifying thought. Sorry, Alice, but you’re
    just a [bigotry] bandwagon jumper.

    Hey Alice [in Wonderland], do you like potatoes? How about tomatoes? Green peppers? Egg
    plant? What about black tea?

    Sorry to rain on your brainwashed parade but there are small
    quantities of nicotine in all of these.
    http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199308053290619

    Nicotine is also a cognitive enhancer, mild in effect, on a
    par with caffeine. It aids in focus:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20414766

    Here’s another question, Alice. How successful do you think nicotine patches, etc. are? It was fully expected a few decades ago that smokers would simply slap on a patch and they would quit
    smoking. But it doesn’t work that way. There’s more to why people smoke than
    just nicotine.

    The success rate of nicotine replacement therapy (NRT) at one year is 3+% above a
    3+% placebo baseline: At one year, NRT has a failure rate of ~97%. At two years, it is even closer to a 100% failure rate.
    http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/338/apr29_1/b1730?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=smoking&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=date&resourcetype=HWCIT

    Why? I hear you ask, Alice. Because “nicotine addiction” is a myth. The myth continues because it makes a lot of money for the pharmaceutical industry for its useless wares and it
    allows fanatics as yourself to promote themselves as the superior folk – “role models”.

    Dear Al, it’s been a sort of pleasure communicating with someone who thinks they’re god. However, you really ought to stop before you make an even bigger fool of yourself – if that’s possible. You’re the one who sounds like a bona fide rage-aholic, harboring a load of toxic thinking and allowed to masquerade as a “loving sweet experienced intelligent giving
    Grandmother Mom and community activist ex smoker and I contribute enormously to
    my community especially by being an appropriate role model for those who are
    struggling with this terrible disease”.

    Alice, you are suffering bigotry. Get a grip; follow the Yellowbrick Road.

    • And again …just one socially redeeming reason why you would promote the death and demolition that nicotine addiction is on our health care system or our waterways or our children’s rights or even a  reason why you smoke? Anything? A good or positive or anything?
      Economic benefits?
      Social benefits?
      Personal benefits? Any pluses for the tobacco companies and any public service they may be contributing? Or even why you would perpetuate the addiction “value” upon the rest of your community?
      Something you personally get from it that makes you a better person?
      All you have to say is what a victim you are of those who want some clean air and lack of rage addicts?

      WHAT IS ONE SOCIALLY OR ANY OTHER TYPE OF REDEEMING QUALITY OF NICOTINE ADDICTION?

      You just can not answer that at all. Not one answer at all. Why do I not have the right to not alk through a cloud of smoke? Why should the people who are protecting children allow someone who is so weak they can not control thier addictions be allowed to be alone with innocent and often already traumatized children?

      ONE ANSWER THAT IS NOT AN ATTCK? Just a positive element of nicotine addiction?

      • Or even tobacco use? ONE POSITIVE BENEFIT? How is nicotine addiction different that crack addiction? Just one answer.
        And the idea that it is not addictive is so silly Who would volunteer to stink and pay tons of money and be angry all the time and need a break from their lives every 20 minutes if they had a choice? You really believe you are just choosing to smoke and so are the millions of other smokers? That is hilarious! And why would they do this? Because smoking is so wonderful and pleasant? Hilarious!

    • No one forces me to inhale tomatoes etc any where I go.
      Small quantities in eggplant and this means my grandchildren must walk through a cloud of it where ever we go?
      Great that it is like caffeine because again my grandchildren are not forced to walk through clouds of caffeine for the sake of other peoples addictions to it. And all of the other issues of caffeine apply actually but no one makes me live with it.
      Patches. or nicotine administered in even doses over the entire day so as to mitigate the rages and therefore protect children and innocent adults from the withdrawal rages when the addict can not get to the drug fast enough.
      I do not think I am god I think I am awake and paying attention. I think I live in the year 2011 and I live with the damage I did when I was you. And you know you are living with the damage your theory too. Sad sorry John. it’s ok if you don’t quit. It is just sad that you are pushing the stuff.

  14. Alice, could you
    tell us one redeeming value of a neurotic bigot? Just one. Tell us one. What is
    a – one – value of neurosis and bigotry. Can you tell us one? You can’t, can
    you? Can you give us one? All I want is one. Just one! One, one, one……..

    [P.S. You do know what a bigot is?]

  15. Answering a question is not an answer. Bigot? In what way am I a bigot because I disagree with you? So irrational and still unable to answer credibly even the simplest question which shows that there are no answers John because it is not right or just or ok and you are promoting a poison upon your community.
    If I was anything like a “what ever you are calling me this time” then I could answer your question but I am not so I can’t but I do know the answers to the questions I asked you and so do you. Regardless of your alleged facts and history of the addiction you can not tell a lick of truth about why I do not have the right to breath on my own streets and what one redeemable quality to nicotine is? It seems blatantly obvious that is not clarity of thought because you are delusional.

    • Excuse me Answering a question with a question is not an answer……

      • Oh and here is a question. Why is it better than crack or weed? Why should it be more legal?

  16. And John people used to be allowed to smoke in Dr’s offices and hospitals and schools I guess with your theory all of the people who did not want to spend their whole day in a cloud of toxic smoke are bigots too?

    • Seems like a fairly large movement for a fringe element who are all wound up controlling every one else. Interesting conspiracy theory. So it would make all of us smarter if we all smoked is that your idea? Not a bit delusional there John.

  17. And, in fact, Johnny, my friend, I am making a documentary about how seriously addicted some of you are. I could not have met you at a better time. You have made the case for the pros and now I have the opportunity to use your “evidence” in a statement of why you are all delusional. I hope to use you or at least our conversation as an “expert witness” You should think about it, you have set down such a plausible theory or at least as good a one as there ever will be. Consider it. Write a tobacco manifesto and I will publish it.


  18. A documentary you say, Alice. How many people get to make a movie? That’s splendid….impressive: I couldn’t be happier for you. I’m sure you’ll be nominated for the “Legend In Their Own Mind/Teacup” Award.  And call me biased but, now having witnessed some of your “work”, I think you’re a cert to win: It’s a one-horse/bigot race if ever there was one. Get that acceptance speech ready, Alice. Just a hint though. From the “Academy’s” website, you’ll have to taper the length down a bit; speeches over 7 hours are not permitted. And, unfortunately
    (they’re very strict about this), 3 minutes of the 7 hours has to be devoted to comments other than self-adulation (This could be very difficult for you but………I don’t know……talk about the weather for a few minutes – and then right back to yourself). Congratulations in anticipation, Al.

    • Yes, thank you as the creator of over 50 documentary films to date I am hoping this one will be a “breakthrough” in more ways than one. I guess you don’t think anyone can accomplish anything because you have not been able to accomplish even your won freedom. Cheers

      • Oh wait and awards and adulation? I was the first ever film maker to be awarded the National Film Board’s support for digital animation. I have also won 2 other National awards and you can claim that you justified the addiction of others. Swell.


        • More good news, Alice. The “Academy” has agreed to foot the bill for the crane to deliver your tiara.

          • As long as there are no people who can’t justify their serious drug addiction with anything truthful or even vaguely realistic I will be there. Just one answer John. Just one. Do you LOVE being a nicotine addict. I am guessing that just like all of them you would say “No of course not, I am not an idiot. If I could not smoke I would not smoke obviously. I would rather not poison myself and others but I am hooked and I am too weak to get away from it.”

            Any answer to any of the questions I asked. Really? Just for the research you won’t even try to answer just one? Oh please.

          • You are such a brilliant example of a hard core addict. SO completely deluded constant misdirection Can’t maintain a point and no justification for why the rest of us should have to live with it which is why your wife left you and you live alone. No one wants to live with a mean addict who won’t even question his own addiction. And to live with a pusher would be completely repugnant. Gross! Ick.


  19. Liar, liar, pants on fire!!

    OK. All jest aside (I AM trying really hard… LOL).

    Alice, I really do hope that you slap together a “documentary” [giggle]. In your current state
    of mind it should be perfect testimony as to why “world fixer” fanatics are dangerously delusional or, to use your superior parlance…. Gross! Ick! Icky-poo!

    • Gosh John I hope one day you are able to see how addicted and fanatical you are about your addiction. So she did leave you because you are an addict didn’t she? And she took the kids because you believe it is ok to poison them and to be a rage a holic. Which it is so obvious you are. Certainly your arguments have fallen away under just s few simple questions. You are not bombastic about it now but rather just trying to be insulting and sarcastic all of which is helping me with my research It is good to have the undivided attention of an addict such as yourself because I can get all of the crazy examples of the addictions tendency to avoidance of any true statement. I really must thank you for yur input and your help. You are a typical deluded nic addict with a series of unrealistic excuses which no outsider can possibly refute because it is a movable feast and when you are pinned down to a realistic question like what about the children who have to walk through your clouds of toxic smoke you can not answer it. Because you know children have a right not to walk through toxic smoke.

      I am sure when she left your sorry seriously addict death wishing butt she took the kids for their own safety too right John? Because you are so addicted you can’t control yourself so you were too mean and erratic and dedicated to the drug to be a decent partner and parent isn’t that it John? And I bet you got fired or laid off because you couldn’t maintain your cool unless oyu had a death stick hanging out of your face right? I would so love to get a real interview from you.

    • No worrys! I don’t slap together anything. I am complete professional and this is a study in how rage effects the children. They have no voice. You can be in a rage at me and say silly stuff that makes no sense and that is the way you all treat children but children can not talk back to adults especially nic addicts because they are mean and agitated and dangerous and hurtful. I am unaffected by your rage and name calling and all of your misinformation because I have been down this road with many of you poor sad addicts and I know that we have a right not to deal with your circular thinking or any discourse at all. People are now beig tested to see if they smoke nicotine and if they do they are warned and if they continue they are let go because people like me fought for our right to be in an office space without smoke hanging in the air and we also have a right to be outside on the streets of our own cities without our children being exposed to your poisonous addiction in the same way we would not work with or walk by a crack head in the street and accept that because the crack head said it is ok for him it is ok for everyone.

      I really want you to answer some of the questions not because I think you can have an answer that makes sense but because in your head you believe there are answers but when you try to say them out loud or type them you can;t really say the stuff nicotine makes you think. I could send you a questionnaire. Would that be ok John? I mean this I really need your perspective. You are dedicated and I am sure you could help a lot. I have all of the stuff you wrote in the beginning and no one knows who you are so why not pour it all out here for me. I Am serious. Don’t be embarrassed and it will help me to make sense of your plight to the world. I mean why would you pollute a child’s space intentionally?No one would so then what do you think s the reason you believe it is ok for you to smoke anywhere? Or tell me why, (I amnot mocking you) why do you believe it is wrong for the CAS not to allow foster parents who are addicted?

      I really want to know John. Who knows maybe I will prove myself wrong. I know a few people who would be happy with that outcome so maybe you could help with that?

      • I really am making a documentary and this is your opportunity to say all the stuff you believe in public if you like. Be the advocate you were yesterday. The reason I was reading this article was for background information about the addiction and Moms.

        Here is a link to a few of my music videos (www.youtube.com/user/BellevueParkTV)  7 in the series on that channel, I have several other channels and much more work out there but no matter. And please do not bother writing a negative critique because I don’t care what you think of my work I just want you to know I am serious. I have been documenting art and music for 30 years. This documentary is going to be my first effort at a feature length. Already have the funidng part started. Just getting some ground work done now. My producers are behind it all the way.

        It is very hard to talk to the addicts because they get really agitated and they can’t really think straight so this is a good place for me to be safe and for us to explore the issues you have gathered to make your case. I am going to study the stuff you have given me to try to help you make your case. I will try to suspend my resistance to your model and give you equal time with as objective a lens as I can. What do you think John?


  20. “I would so love to get a real interview from you.”

    I could be prepared to come to the asylum you are currently
    being held at. What I want to know is how you managed to hijack the computer at
    the facility. Aren’t there any guards? If I can’t make it, just continue with
    your fantasies and projections. These seem to keep you “entertained”, albeit deranged.

    • Perfect! Thank you so much! I mean the more I ask you politely and reasonably to just help the rest of your addicted community to get your message across the more you rage on. You are exhibiting exactly the behaviors I have been mentioning. No real way of address grown up questions so you resort to tossing out meaning less insults which are not insults because A: they are likely projections That is you are really talking about where you are and B: you do not have any real answers that you are willing to actually discuss. You are so typical a nic addict and really the answers to everything I ask no matter how obtuse or angry or attempting to be insulting or hurtful you become it only proves my points completely. When a nic addict “feels” cornered in any way (meaning they can’t smoke and type at the same time) they are angry and insulting not “clear” as your “evidence” has suggested. Clarity would mean you could actually have a conversation. You could discuss things and allow another opinion or opinions without accusing those who disagree with you of being insane. I simply do not agree with your assessment of the drug you abuse. And I have been already working on this piece so it is kind of fortuitous that we have been wrestling over your pro addiction “dialogue” Although you don’t seem to be sustaining any of your previous arguments. You seem to have just reduced yourself to a bundle of anger.

      • I, on the other hand, am smiling and happy because you have given me so much stuff for my research and you are obviously going to continue in your defensive posture without any real point because you are a nicotine addict and that means I have pissed you off a bunch.
        I am happy because when I came to read this article I was going to have to find someone to try to make the defense and I did not want to sit down with an addict to nicotine and have to challenge the addiction face to face because it is a dangerous interview. Now I have the entire conversation with a die hard addict who until now has not been able to justify his addiction at all. I feel great. Thank you. Anymore? Just let er rip. I feel very lucky today.

  21. Good grief!  I now officially believe in reincarnation.  Carrie Nation is back.    

    • Not really There are millions of people who don’t want to deal with that addiction anymore. I didn’t stop anyone from smoking in the hospitals or restaurants. I just want a place to go with my Grandchildren where they are not exposed to any addictive and arrogant behavior in their faces and as you must realize I am not alone in not wanting to work with addicts or have to walk out of the hospital to a cloud of toxic waste from someone else’s bad choice. Actually. Just me and my own personal stand for the people who can not tell you themselves that they are afraid of you and do not want to breath your second hand smoke.
      Nothing like Carrie Nation in fact just my own desire to breath and not be screamed at for it and not have to pay anyone to take 15 minute breaks every 20 minutes. Tired of you and other addicts tossing your refuse on the ground and allowing it to pollute our world.
      I’ll bet you folks complain about pollution that is not tobacco smoke. Blind and completely unable to think your way out of your self destructive suicidal behavior and next you will say that if you want to kill yourself that is up to you but we put fences on bridges because we try not to allow our citizens to kill themselves. 
      Silly silly silly Do you really think if I was against crack (which of course I am) that I would take the crack heads word as to my ambitions or motivations? Duh!
      But if you really are a different guy maybe you will answer some of the questions I have asked John?

      •  If you promise to behave like a sane person and not overwhelm me with 3 or 4 messages all at once, I will answer any questions you like, but one question at a time.  I will answer and will in turn ask you a question of my choice.  You don’t get an answer to your subsequent questions unless my own is answered first.  Let’s show the readership who is the more reasonable here the ”addict” or the ”fanatic”.  I even give you first turn at asking a question. 1 2 3  Go.   

        •  Oh just to introduce myself properly, I am a she and nothing to do with John.  If you’re a good little behaved debater I will even reveal to you my true identity when all this is over. 

          • Should children be required to walk through second hand tobacco smoke on the streets?

          • The short answer is yes.  The long answer is that children are not kings nor a priviledged species that should be protected from everything their parents (or grandparents) wrongly or rightly consider morally or physically wrong for them.  The even  longer answer is that second hand smoke is not a significant health hazard even indoors, let alone outdoors. 

            Discuss and then answer my question:  Do you feel about traffic exhaust and industrial pollution the same way as you feel about tobacco smoke and if so what measures do you take to protect your grandchildren from various pollutants in the outdoors?

  22. From CyZane: The short answer is yes.  The long answer is that children are not kings
    nor a privileged species that should be protected from everything
    their parents (or grandparents) wrongfully or rightly consider morally
    or physically wrong for them.  The even  longer answer is that second
    hand smoke is not a significant health hazard even indoors, let alone
    outdoors. 

    Discuss and then answer my question:  Do you feel
    about traffic exhaust and industrial pollution the same way as you feel
    about tobacco smoke and if so what measures do you take to protect your
    grandchildren from various pollutants in the outdoors?

    Answer: I absolutely protect children and children’s rights from danger caused by unthinking addicted and irrational “adult” behavior and we do socially. We have laws to prevent drunk driving and sexual molesting and crackheads from harming children regardless of the skewed and irresponsible ideas of the drunks, crackheads, molesters and raging nicotine addicts. Don’t you?

    My next question is: Do you believe if we worked in the same office that I should be required to live in your ashtray with you or would you be providing anti tobacco order sprays and medical costs for me as required for my asthma to live around the smoke?

    • So since you haven’t answered my question about environmental pollution I understand that it’s not the harm that the pollution may be causing your children that matters to you, it’s who and what produces it and whether the source is morally acceptable or not according to your own standards of morality.  Comparing drunk driving to second hand smoke is fallacious.  I repeat, until you finally bite and ask the right question, second hand smoke is not a significant health risk even indoors, let alone outdoors. 

      No I don’t believe that if we worked in the same office that you should be required to put up with my smoke even if you were not an asthmatic. I do believe that heavy smoke indoors can cause irritation to the eyes and throat and give a headache to a certain number of people.   I do however believe that I should be extended the courtesy of some comfortable accommodation to engage in my pleasurable relaxation and if a well ventilated separate sheltered area that you don’t have to enter unless you chose to still gets to your asthma, then you have a very serious problem which is your responsibility to look after, not mine, nor our employer’s and even less  society’s.  Do I think that my employer should be obligated to offer me such a room?  No I don’t think so, but happy people make productive employees, and this goes for both of us.  On the other hand I don’t believe that it’s the government’s responsibility to forbid  employers to accommodate their employees on the use of a legal product.    

      • I am very curious why we should make accommodations for smoking nicotine but not crack?

        I did answer your question about pollution actually I guess you didn’t see it.
        There is a lot of evidence that you are wrong about second hand smoke and in my own case it is very harmful and it makes children ill. In fact you acknowledge it is harmful by your acknowledgement that it is an irritant.How is drunk driving different Both are addicts who do not care about public health.

        Anyway once again another one of you is using circular thinking You are a moving target If I know nothing I am the enemy and if I know something then I am the enemy.

        This should soon devolve into you becoming irate and angry at me because you can’t believe you are saying the stuff you are. I can’t believe it but it is all good material for the documentary and I really want to thank you for taking the time to answer these important questions. It is illuminating how truly deluded you folks are but again not a surprise because if you weren’t why would you stay addicted?

        •  How does it make all children ill?  Peanuts also make SOME children ill.  Are you advocating to ban peanut butter from everywhere you want to take your grandchildren?  Do you also hunt witches that don’t cream their children with cancer causing sunscreen before taking them out to the sun?  Do you lecture parents that drive with their children in badly maintained car and bad weather conditions.  Do you think that there should also be laws against that?  How about we hand our children over to the state (you can hire yourself as a nanny) to raise them till they’re 18.  That should fix the problem.   

          If people tend to get angry at you is because you’re so one track minded.  You don’t even think twice about anything you say and weigh all sides.    You just parrot propaganda that you conditioned yourself to believe God only knows why. 

          How did the baby boom generation and their children survive the omnipresent smoke at the time?  Why are today’s children sicker than our own and ourselves used to be?  Why are psychotropic drug use increasing to frightening levels?  What is wrong with this picture?  Yet, if we believe what they say we are only about 20% who smoke now and mostly outdoors where the smoke is thousands times more diluted than indoors.  This needs some splaining Alice. 

        •  And by the way, I have nothing against designated areas for crack users.  Providing they are not in the way of anyone they can harm when they’re under the influence, especially children.  Now don’t come back telling me that second hand smoke is also harmful.  Prove it.  Back up your beliefs.  And don’t come back with some governmental or anti-smoking sites propaganda.  Look up the so called scientific studies, analyze them, evaluate the risk factors and tell me what they mean in real life terms.  Are you up to it Mrs. rabid anti-smoker? 

  23. Oh, wait! I forgot I have a better question. I posted one answer to your question with another question but I changed my mind I have three questions but I will ask them in order. I want to mention again that I am recording these results in order to use this material in a documentary.

    The question or question 2: If you read the article above and you have the opinion that children don’t need to be protected from the smoke then would you suggest that the Mom’s just smoke when and where ever they like and stop hiding it or do you have another solution or a different idea?

    • I believe that this should be left up to the individual parent.  Parental autonomy is not something to take lightly and for you or I to decide.  As long as the child doesn’t have an ailment that is exacerbated by smoke in which case there are child neglect laws that would protect that vulnerable to smoke child, it is noone’s business.  Not yours,  nor mine. 

      • Do you feel the same way about crack?

        •  No I don’t feel the same way about crack.  Crack is a drug that impairs cognitive function as opposed to smoking which enhances it.  Crack is illegal, smoking isn’t.  Children could be put in a risky situation if the cognitive functions of their parents are impaired and society then has every right to intervene to protect the children who can’t protect themselves.  I will not ask you any questions although I would have plenty on this issue alone.  I’ll catch up first.   

          • Tobacco will not be legal for much longer and really because it is legal? So you are now relaying on the idea that it is ok because it is legal? Slavery was legal. Beating your wife was legal. We used to be cannibals. So what The legal part of it does not change the symptoms which are very like crack.

            Sometimes the laws are wrong or more likely they are created by powers that are influencing our government bodies as I am sure you are aware. The laws are changing.You are obviously not self aware. You have lost your temper because you could not get to nicotine and you know you have. Put a child in a room with a nicotine addict who can not get to their hit right away and that child becomes a target of the addict. It happens the the innocent children of nicotine addicts every day. Ask anyone of them that is honest.

          •  You are an insult to truly abused children.  You can only wish smoking by one’s healthy child was the only problem our children face today!  I got news for you, there is a forest behind this tree you’re banging your head on.   I at least hope that you are busy lobbying government to make tobacco illegal and stop profiting from the taxes that provide for lucrative careers to the whole anti-smoking mafia who don’t really want to eliminate the goose that lays the golden egg.  A question for you.  How do you explain that there is no legal age to smoke?  Shouldn’t you at least be lobbying for that?  Or are you? 

      • Interesting. So parents who have children who are “vulnerable” should have different rights than parents who’s children are just normal and there fore in your mind not vulnerable to toxic waste? You do understand the meaning of the word rationalize right?

  24. Question 3. Given the expense, the bad odour, the potential damage to your health, the potential damage to the health of others, the terrible withdrawal symptoms every 20 minutes and the social rejection if it wasn’t addictive why would anyone smoke it or what are any positive qualities of tobacco?

    Feel free anyone may answer this I am looking for opinions.

    • There are plenty of reasons to smoke depending on the individual, the first and foremost being the cognitive functions it enhances.  There have been studies suggesting that moderate smoking prevents heart attacks, preclampsia, Parkinson’s disease, Alzheimer’s, alleviates symptoms of ulcerative colitis, has the dual quality of relaxing and exciting depending on the need of the moment, helps with bowel movement, controls weight, controls glucose levels, alleviates boredom and I am probably forgetting a few others.  Why do you feel you have the right to decide for another person what is expensive, what is a disagreeable odor and what is beneficial or not for them?  This is not a rhetorical question.  I expect an answer. 

      • I do not feel I have the right to make anyone do anything for themselves. I do however believe that smokers are not the only people in the world. I also believe in the same rules for equal issues Crack Cocaine has some suggested benefits as well but socially we do not want crack heads babysitting for our kids or being in our public spaces.

        I did not ask you to stop anything and I have no power to make anyone do anything…why are you so threatened? I asked why, if it is not addictive, anyone would choose to be the way nicotine addicts are absolutely proven to behave. Why would anyone who could chose chose to be addicted was the question. I think most smokers would do anything to believe they could quit. It is a very rare smoker who does not wish to be free of the addiction and you know it.

        I am doing research to see how your brain functions To see if what you are saying about your clarity lines up with the rest of the population smokers and non smokers alike. Why do you feel that if you are challenged someone is trying to stop you from doing something?

        •  You claim you don’t have the right to make anyone do anything for themselves but you’re sure cheering and applauding every regulation no matter how absurd it is.  Isn’t this a little hypocritical?  You approve of smoking employees losing their jobs, their housing, their children, the privilege to smoke in the outdoors and you will chasticize them when smoking in the presence of their children in the home.  I would be doing research to see how your own brain functions before analyzing others’ if I were you.  Have you ever read the book Dissecting Anti-Smokers’ Brains? 

          Why am I so threatened?  All of society is threatened under the influence of people of your ilk.  We must put a stop to people with minding such as yours because they’re a threat to sanity and harmony among citizens.  Unfortunately too many gullible people believe much of what they read from the so-called authorities.  Mindless drones would do anything for utopic longevity whether they finish their days in diapers or not. 

          I

          • I approve of laws that protect the public health. I want raccoons to be  kept rabies free and I want the public health to help new Moms and I want the public health to advocate for public health.

            If I poison the water in the city wells because I am careless and people die I want the public health to have a hearing and make public policy to save lives. If the public health says nicotine is bad for people I have to believe them not tobacco addicts who all have a vested interest in self delusion.

            And as always you are devolving to name calling and insults because you have no defense. Nicotine addiction is indefensible but the smoking of nicotine in public of private is far worse. I do not expect any NAMBLA member to believe child molesting is bad for children

            Try it they do not agree but as a society we do not agree and as a society the reason you may not smoke where ever you please is because we do not agree.

          •  So which is it Alice that nicotine is bad or smoking is bad?  I thought you recognized the benefits of nicotine and even peddled them here through patches, inhalers, gums or whatever other shit Big Pharma markets to gain the monopoly of the nicotine market.  Are you sure you even know what you believe?  By the way, how do you feel about electronic cigarettes?  

            When did you ask me where I wanted to smoke?  You’re not asking the right questions yet you come to your pre-conceived conclusions.  Not what I would call the right qualities to make a good documentary.  When did I say that I would like to smoke everywhere I please?  Your credibility is now 0 my most laughable olfactophobic anti-smoker :-) )

             

      • All of those things are the usefulness of nicotine not smoking! Sure would like to see some of those studies and understand why the nicotine would need to be smoked to the detriment of others rather than taken in a pill or patch or gum form that bothers no one else? But then you will say I work for the drug companies trying to sell nicotine patches.

        •  You are doing exactly what I asked you not to do if you want to have a half decent discussion with me.  I can dig all these studies out for you, but I have at least 4 of your other messages queued for reply.  So you either stop overwhelming me or let’s put an end to this discussion.  I will get to your other messages and I’ll come back to digging up the studies for you after.  But wait till I catch up before you send any other new questions my way. 

          • Sure. Just enthusiasm.

        • You didn’t answer this one and it was addressing your own point.

          •  I will happily reply.  First it has not been proven that nicotine all on its own is the addictive substance in smoking.  Secondly, even if it were, the fastest way to deliver it to the brain is through smoking.  The hit is almost instantaneous.  Secondly, smoking is not just the act of getting a nicotine hit.  The actual ritual of smoking is very important to the smoker and probably the hardest thing to break for those who want to break it.  If it were just the nicotine, patches, gums and lozenges wouldn’t have only a between 1,7 – 7% success rate in the long term.  Excellent repeat business for Big Pharma you must admit  ;-)  

  25. Question 4: Who are the millions of non smokers who want their rights associated with, what is our motivation, who are we conspiring with or why would we be saying it is not ok with us?

    • Yes who are they?  Do you have any figures proving that millions of non-smokers are against smoking?   The anti-smokers which are the minority (as opposed to non-smokers who don’t care one way or the other) are people who are being opportunist with the present anti-smoking witch hunt, probably because they dislike the smell, or have seen a relative die allegedly through smoking, or are too tempted to start again.  But you’re going way too fast here.  You will find out soon enough (if you ask the right questions) why ordinary citizens seem to be so anti-smoking. 

      • You are serious? I am very interested in this thinking which I find quite dissociative. I am thinking you do not hang out with very many non smokers or at least they do not hang out with you. How do you think the laws got enacted to stop people from smoking indoors then? And why I am very curious as to how many people would it take to change all of those laws without the consent of the public and why?

        •  The laws were enacted through cheating, through fear mongering propaganda and brainwashing of gullible people such as yourself or are you one of the professional ones that spew the lies and propagate the fraud.  Or do you agree with Repace who claims that it takes gale force winds to dissipate smoke particles from the air in an era where we can easily and efficiently ventilate underground garages, mining sites, welding fumes and highly contagious air in hospitals.  Do you even consider what you believe before you spew it?  Stick around and I will give you blatant examples of fraud when enacting smoke-free laws. 

  26. Summarizing the answers you owe me here for your convenience :

     1) Do you feel about traffic exhaust and industrial pollution the same way you feel about tobacco smoke and if so what measures do you take to
    protect your grandchildren from various pollutants in the outdoors?

    2)  Why do you feel you have the right to decide for another person what is
    expensive, what is a disagreeable odor and what is beneficial or not for
    them?

    3) Yes who are they?  Do you have any figures proving that millions of non-smokers are against smoking? 

  27. My turn to ask you a question while I am looking up the studies that you asked for.  If I forgot to answer something please point it out to me.

    How long does it take (if ever) an active smoker to develop a disease suspected to be caused by smoking? 

    Also, just so I know how to direct the discussion, what would you rather discuss active smoking or passive smoking?  I am quite well documented on both. 

    •  You may answer this one now.  I think I am caught up.  Please don’t hold yourself back.  I am not getting upset I am actually enjoying picking your anti brain  :-)  

  28. It’s ok Cy we think we have all the answers we need. Between you and John we think all of the answers you give would come from all addicted and dedicated smokers. All of the other people we interviewed said they wanted to quit and had tried and mostly talked about the difficulty and agreed with the idea that they are victimizing the rest of us by their lack of control and rage. It is a bit socio-pathic really. Can’t tell the truth, can’t hear the truth. can’t think the truth, too hard to bare and still stay addicted. Too much shame for all the mistakes so it seems better to defend your position.Thanks again to you and John. Really really helpful to not have to be in the same room with you because I am afraid of nic addicts.

    •  LOL.  Afraid of nic addicts!  I rest my case.  So tell me when is the last time you were assaulted in a long airplane flight by a smoker flight attendant or customer?  Sorry if you can’t be taken seriously no matter how hard I try to turn this into a serious sane conversation ;-)  

  29. Oh and the reveal of who you are. If you are not the writer of the article or one of the Moms I don’t see the relevance.

    •  You mean you’re going to produce a documentary without credits for the ones that helped you out?  tsk tsk tsk 

      • Oh I am not. I will credit you and this page and this article. Of course! You folks deserve the credit for all of this stuff and it has been incredibly help to our research. Just the link alone will help but also you rage and ire is also helpful

  30. Studies suggesting that smoking has benefits :   

    Cigarette Smoking: Effects on Cognitive Functions and Drug-Induced Parkinsonism in Chronic Schizophrenia
    Read More: http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/00207459309000574

    Smoking and ulcerative colitis.  http://www.bmj.com/content/288/6419/751.abstract  http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Doi=199478&Scope=archivPreeclampsia in pregnant women  prevented by smoking  http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002937899703418 

    Smoking preventing restenosis  Conclusions— In patients undergoing contemporary
    PCI, cigarette smoking is associated with a lower rate of
    subsequent TLR without affecting angiographic restenosis. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002937899703418  Smoking prevents allergies CONCLUSIONS: This study
    demonstrates an association between current exposure to tobacco smoke
    and a low risk for atopic disorders in smokers themselves and a similar
    tendency in their children.  http://85.18.251.150/34/circulation_2001_104_773.htm  

    • The benefits are from nicotine and so like any other medication it does not need to be smoked.

      •  I thought in another post you said nicotine was bad for you.  You’re going to have to make up your mind dear.  Multiple personnality disorder?  

      • Malice, the studies specifically refer to smoking. Why are you claiming it’s only nicotine? But Thank you.


  31. Alice: “And I have been already working on this piece so it is kind of fortuitous that we
    have been wrestling over your pro addiction “dialogue”……”
    “It’s ok Cy we think we have all the answers we need.”

    “That WE have been wrestling over”. Who is the “we”? Are
    these multiple personalities? Do you have the entire cast of Alice
    in Wonderland going on in your mind? Or are these your
    ANTI-CRACK-HEAD-NICOTINE-ADDICT friends – the “role models” of society -
    helping you compile said “documentary”? Do you help each other wipe away the
    foam build-up at each others’ mouths? Alice, put the Mad Hatter on.

    Alice: “I want to mention again that I am recording these results in order to use this
    material in a documentary.”

    Alice, your comments are also being duly recorded.

    BTW The link you supplied is dead.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/BellevueParkTV)

    • It has a bracket on the end that is preventing it from going to the site. YouTube.com/user/BellevueParkTV and thank you again for your input. I would love to interview one of you in person or send a crew to follow you around for a day to see how you put your citizenship and your addiction into practice.. You folks are a bit more scary then most though so I think I will find a local addict or two. Maybe a couple of Mom’s walking around pissed off at their little kids and are always telling them they have to get away from them and being irritated all the time when they don’t have a smoke between their fingers.

      • Oh that’s just so wonderful, Malice. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

  32. I used to have great fun, teasing women because of their habit of talking about soap opera characters like they were real people. Today we have evolved from that to taking the stereotypes created by ad agency pseudo-science seriously. Hatred by entitlement, that tells us we should fell guilty if we smoke or raise our noses to the sky when we see them. Do you really want ad agencies and something they call “Public Health” which stands today as the first line voice [the prostitutes of science] of payola, by medical officers of health, or their gummy patchy benefactors, to raise your children and set the example they should follow? One person of interest on this blog emulates what they want others to follow, as useful idiots, although very few from what I see, take her seriously. Do we have to live as hypocrites, self sanctimonious blow hards and bigots just because we don’t smoke? Not hardly, so what are so many Public health agencies without fear of consequence, so confidently, painting that stereotype for the rest of us?

    The truth be told; we already know the truth about the so called “dangers” of second hand smoke and if you light one up, in a room full of these so called public health experts, they will not run away in fear. because they know the truth as well. They know as we know that the smoke is virtually harmless and that the term “second hand” was an ad agency creation, to sell the community divisions they have gained so far, with smoking bans and regressive cigarette taxation. Created by a daily dose of newsworthy drama and despair, revealed by “new research”, delivered verbatim from the ad agencies to your living room, all dressed up like the news.

    A politician believes what it is popular to believe among the media and their most often financially conflicted proportions of “political correctness” as a new lifestyle standard. I am a unique person and a free agent, let no one take that from me, or from you. This is about for profit promotion, because science never required ad agencies to help sell the truth. If it is safe to use gasoline and diesel engines or to wear perfume and deodorant or even to have indoor plumbing, tobacco smoke is the least of our worries at the bottom of the list in order of the most immediately toxic aromas we encounter every day. The commercial is getting old and people are getting sick of being told by government how they should live or think. The Government serves us and we are to be respected as adults and we all outgrew our need to be parternalized. Isn’t it time at least some of us started to act like we are deserving of the word adult? If we are truly adults, why do we work so hard at glorifying others around us, who are treating us like we are all helpless children?

    Smokers and non smokers always found ways of getting along in the past, is it so hard to imagine that if we are interested in progress, and we do abhor historical bigotry arising from eugenics mindsets. Not unlike what we are witnessing today. If we claim we do reject bullying, coercions and bigotry, can we also walk the talk? Is it even remotely possible, that we could find that level of human compassion once again? beyond the promotions of profits or self sanctimonious entitlements you have to find yourself first and set your own standards to live by, under all the window dressings and cheer-leading, who is truly left of those who claim to possess consensus intelligence, for the rest of us? Dozens perhaps a hundred or so, who are entitled to their entitlements?

    Surely we are greater than this.

    • This is terrific. I could not have found this stuff anywhere else You are all so sure and intensely dedicated and purely nicotine addicted defense. Awesome. Thank you so much!

      • “I could not have found this stuff anywhere else”

        You’re absolutely correct, Mal. THANK YOU.

  33. To teach Alice the error of her borne again ways ,I will have to resort to enlightened poetry. A couple of well know examples come to mind;

    Most directly I would cite this one;

    “Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies, The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
           
        C.S. Lewis 

    I would be immediately tempted to cite another which more directly describes the banter, however it’s origin stands historically as much more important than the poem itself. so I will offer the link to WIKI in its place;

    Martin Niemöller;

    “Then they came for the Jews and I was not a Jew…”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Niem%C3%B6ller

    Same on you Alice, you should be old enough to know better. The example you set for children is offensive, abhorrent and absolutely inexcusable.

    Apologize!

    • Your kidding right? I came here to stimulate a bunch of nic heads into a rage in defense of their horrible behavior and their terrible addiction to a very deadly drug and I got the reaction I expected. What is it you think I should apologize for? You folks are always so delusional and others can see it.

    • That would be silly. Why would I do that?

  34. 1.


    Hey Alice, since you probably have a short attention-span
    and poor short-term memory, this is just a sampling of YOUR opening comments:

    “….that guy who is advocating the addiction is from the
    industry no doubt or so heavily addicted he is completely stupefied! Stop
    that’s all you have to do and in the end you will see clearly that if you
    weren’t addicted to a toxic substance you would have the sense god gave a dog
    and get away from the stuff.”

    “You are addicted and dangerous and you are justifying it in
    the same delusional lies that you all tell.”

    “Addiction and parenting DO NOT GO TOGETHER NO MATTER WHAT
    ANYONE TELLS YOU IT IS A CRIME AGAINST CHILDREN!”

    “Crack heads hide their addiction from everyone that does
    not mean they are not suffering from the addiction or being nice to anyone.
    These Mom’s are exactly like every other Nicotine addict and they will rage
    when they can not get their drug and they stink when they do get it and they
    are lying to themselves and everyone else because eventually and more and more
    often they will lose control in front of and at their children if the children
    get between them and their  fix!”

    “And there is nothing tragic about the opposition to the
    poisoning of our streets and planet.”

    “You can not refute the victims of tobacco and nicotine’s
    real experience of living as victims of nicotine rages and second hand smoke in
    fact the only reason you can try to dispute anything is because you are a
    delusional addict and you will do and say anything and dismiss all other
    arguments to justify your wrong!”

    “You are a sick puppy who is working backwards for his
    community. Why defend an addiction that is so obviously dangerous? BECAUSE YOU
    NEED IT BECAUSE YOU ARE A CRACK HEAD FOR NICOTINE! POOR JOHN!”

    “There are real problems on this planet and nicotine addicts
    are holding us all back. Is that enough John now go back on your meds will ya!?
    Ya said pathetic delkusioanl little addict.”

    “John is as delusional as all nicotine addicts!”

    “If it was easy to quit people would not smoke of course. It
    stinks it makes you mean and stupid and a sociopath.”

    “ANd they are bad tempered and rough with their children due
    to nic fits!”

    • And………..?

      • And………?

        That is called BIGOTRY my lady!

        • No it’s called bating the addicts. If I was a bigot I would be as angry and raging as all you I am researching the reactions of those who promote nicotine. Within that research we needed to arouse the ire of the radical nicotine addicts and we have accomplished our goal quite well I would say.

  35. 2.


    Alice, your opening comments are replete with baseless, haughty, sanctimonious, derogatory claims: They seethe with irrational fear and hatred. That’s the tone YOU set:
    That’s what YOU BROUGHT to the table. While you can hardly construct a sentence
    without resorting to baseless inflammatory claims and name-calling, you
    hyper-react to any questioning of your demonstrably delusional beliefs as
    “name-calling”. While you engage in a one-sided neurotic and bigoted
    blather-fest, you accuse others of refusing to engage in a “conversation”.

    Al, you are a classical fanatic, an extremist. You demand to
    be taken seriously while you hold to fixed, irrational beliefs, dismissive of
    anything that does not fit your contorted framework. At this time you are
    incapable of reasoning. You have obviously spent too much time reinforcing your
    deranged mindset. You are in need of a complete overhaul of thought. While you
    would crowingly reserve for yourself the lofty acclaim of “loving sweet experienced
    intelligent giving Grandmother Mom…….”, you as emphatically consign, relegate, all smoking parents to the “write-off” basket, guilty of your vile, baseless accusations,
    until they “reform” to your remedy. You are the fraud. Can it be any surprise
    that you are terrified of “nic addicts”? This has nothing to do with smokers or
    smoke. It has to do with what you have made of them in your convoluted thinking
    and projections. Then you are shocked that those who smoke would “rebel” at the
    contorted manner in which you are intent on portraying them, dismissing their
    protest as only just another “symptom” of “nicotine addiction”. Shame on you!

    Alice, if you want to do some useful research, go and find out about anxiety reactions such as phobia, or somatization, or hypochondria, or bigotry, or bandwagon effects. You’ll get a better insight into the amount of work you need to do in your mind: You have much to learn. While you are utterly obsessed with physical health and phantom physical “dangers”, you have a complete disregard for mental health. Children should be protected from fanatics (e.g., you) and the toxic, divisive thinking they spread.

    • This is cool we missed this one before.

  36. 3.


    Alice, you think your rabid antismoking stance represents “evolution”.
    Sorry, Al, it’s all been seen before. Your contorted thinking represents regression. We’ve gone back about a century-plus.

    “The use of tobacco, in any form, is a dirty, filthy,
    disgusting, degrading habit….
    You have no more right to pollute with tobacco smoke the
    atmosphere which clean people have to breathe than you have to spit in the
    water which they have to drink.
    …. use of the filthy, nasty, stinking stuff [tobacco]”

    Alice, does the above quote sound familiar? These are the sorts
    of sentiments that are common amongst contemporary antismokers (e.g., you).
    Interesting is that the quote above is from an anti-tobacco billboard (photo
    circa 1915) on the road leading into Zion, Illinois, USA. When considering the sentiments appearing on the billboard, it must be remembered that this was many, many decades before the concoction of secondhand smoke “danger”.

    Zion City was a “utopian” community established in the early-1900s
    by John Alexander Dowie representing a so-called “Christian” sect (Christian
    Catholic Church). Tobacco, alcohol, and gambling were banned within Zion.
    http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/whi/fullimage.asp?id=55422
    http://yeskarthi.wordpress.com/2010/03/27/1915-anti-smoking-sign-zion-illinois/

    Serious, dangerous fanaticism/extremism was rife in America right up to WWII. The Temperance (fake religious leanings) and Eugenics (physicians, physicalists) Movements, both having dictatorial tendencies and a delusional emphasis on and obsession with physical health, wreaked considerable damage in America.
    The EM was by far the most influential in America and eventually produced catastrophe in Nazi Germany with global consequences. The Temperance and Eugenics Movements shared the anti-tobacco sentiments in the quote above. While they attempted to change
    society with destructive consequences, Dowie’s only “redeeming” feature was
    that he chose to create his own “protected”, “bubble” community.

    Contemporary “world-fixer” fanatics are like their
    predecessors. They understand nothing of history (even recent history),
    science, reason, psychology, sociology, and metaphysics. Whatever the fanatics
    lay their hands to they contort and corrupt. They jump headlong into
    derangement, repeating painful errors of only the recent past with the
    disturbing arrogance of ignorance. It is this sort of fanaticism that is a
    disgrace. Alice, since it is you that participates in the fanaticism, it
    is you who should be ashamed at being such easy prey for dangerous
    superficiality. You and your ilk are cowards, ever enthusiastic to jump on the
    bigotry bandwagon of the time. This is how, in your shallowness, you convince
    yourself you are “superior”. Problem is it’s all fakery, fraud, self-delusion.

    • You are going to play very heavily in this piece Johnny my friend You have been the most helpful of all. I wish for you clarity and that  you can one day become free and aware of the terrible things you have done to promote this horrible addiction. To Freedom!

      • So are you, Malice.

  37. These women exemplify the definition of lab rats having been brainwashed by the great anti-smoker experiment.  Consider this…  you sit there with your cup of coffee and your young child, curious, asks if he/she can try some.  What’s the usual reaction from the parent/adult at this request?  Recoil.  “No,” we say, admonishing, “it’s an ADULT drink.”  But does anyone feel they have to hide their coffee drinking?!?  I don’t want to hear that there’s a “difference” — that one is “harmful” and the other isn’t.  That’s not what this instance is about.  It’s about misplaced shame over taking part in an adult activity.  We don’t want kids to drink coffee as much as we don’t want them to smoke.  Think about it.  Why else recoil from the coffee request?  Thus it’s only the strength of one experiment over the non-existence of the other (there’s no anti-coffee crusade) that is making any difference here.  Ladies, better to smoke in front of the kids than to get caught as a liar.  The latter makes you look even worse to your kids.

    • Right on Audrey.  We can also say the same about alcohol.  How many mothers hide when they sip on their glass of wine or bottle of beer? Not too many, I would venture to guess. But not to worry, it will happen sooner than we think because the anti-alcohol crusaders are hard at work as we speak to demonize any quantity of alcohol using the anti-tobacco crusade as their template. Directly from the WHO eugenic headquarters :  ””There is no safe level of drinking, and in many societies no difference in the risk for men and women.”  http://www.euro.who.int/en/what-we-publish/information-for-the-media/sections/latest-press-releases/european-region-has-heaviest-drinking-in-the-world

       

      • Adorable. Thank you all so much.

        •  Anytime.  It is always fun humiliating a bigot  :-)  

          • Oh yes I am so humiliated…wait does that mean thrilled? Nope not humiliated……thrilled to have encountered these free resources and free research.

        • No, thank you, Malice. That’s just precious.

      • Drunks are not standing on the streets forcing children to drink booze.

        • No dear they don’t.  They only drive their car drunk, they go home and beat their spouse and children up, they vomit all over the place, they pee in their pants, they pick fights in the street, they lose their jobs, they steal to buy booze and eventually die of liver cirrhosis. Fine example to give the children when drinking in their presence!  Am I generalizing and exaggerating?  Of course I am, but that’s just to illustrate what a bigot you are when you generalize about smokers.  Now aren’t you supposed to go produce a documentary or something?  What are you still doing here? 

          • And most of them are addicted to more than one substance and their first addiction was sorry to say it Nicotine…

    • These women? Which women are you speaking of?

  38. From Junk food Science;

    http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/2009/01/third-hand-smoke-and-chemtrails.html

    Simon Chapman, Ph.D., professor of public health at the University of Sydney, in the January 2008 issue of Tobacco Control, published by the British Medical Journal Publishing Group. The full paper
    is recommended reading because even if you don’t smoke, you’ll be next
    should you be overweight, growing older, experiencing health problems,
    or not eating and exercising in a government-approved fashion. Professor
    Chapman’s paper identifies the undocumented, yet pervasive, tactics
    “recommended for comprehensive national tobacco control.”

    Stigmatization,
    he explained, is a way to taint a person from being a whole person to
    one viewed as having blemished, “spoiled” character; associate them with
    disease; and condemn them as being: “malodorous;
    as litterers, wasteful and socially irresponsible; as selfish and
    thoughtless; as unattractive and undesirable partners; as undereducated
    and a social underclass; as addicts; as excessive users of public health
    services; and as employer liabilities.” Incredibly, his paper is
    a veritable blueprint for each tactic, noting that traditional methods
    have focused on restrictions of smoking and the industry, but a “far
    wider range of markers of denormalization exist, which are seldom
    captured.” He urges national control efforts to complement their efforts
    with these techniques, concluding: “For governments, this negativity foments a public climate that is highly receptive to tobacco control legislation, polices and programs.”

    Beyond the fact that Alice here, is simply provoking a negative slander against others as she is being paid to do, or as a willing “useful idiot” she does of her own volition. Is the overwhelming reality; that the same slander and character assassination is being enhanced by the mainstream media and the entire medical community. It goes without saying that charities in promotion of large corporate donations by the people who will profit the most by divided communities, are contributing to an environment that could be described as many things, however charitable is never on that list. Promotion of hatred and spoiled identities, is far afield of what they accept those tax exempted donations to provide. For private individuals and Government agencies they describe themselves as something completely different, in order to qualify for a tax exempted status as a legitimate charity. How on earth did so many intelligent people get duped into such a mammoth payola scheme, gone postal? Tobacco Control is out of control and it’s harbingers will soon face a huge liability risk, by their direct involvement, as the promotions of hatred and division continue to advance on uncharted ground and spread irreparable damage to our communities in their wake.

    Negative ads might be highly effective and acceptable in political battles, However when waged on communities and against individuals in coercive ways, they are a crime, and in this case it is a criminal act without question, by the moralist scofflaws with the crooked accusing fingers, who are telling the rest of us how to behave; the organizations who no longer find it important to earn reputations, when it is far less expensive to purchase one.
    Governments, Medical Organizations and registered charities, are participating in criminal acts, that need to be prosecuted under hate crimes legislation at the very minimum. People have already died because of this promotion and business losses are approaching the trillions.

    • Very helpful. Thank you so much.

  39. The editor at
    McCleans is obviously no fan of poetry and is slugging for Alice and her
    vehemence. She asked for evidence, it was provided and thereafter quickly deleted
    by the editor. 
    Fear not, this is the internet after all and the truth of criminality and purchased promotional hatred will live on. Even with no local balance to that perspective.  At least that is what the media party will tell it’s perspective and hopeful clientelle.http://js-kit.com/api/static/pop_comments?ref=http%3A%2F%2Ftobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com%2F&title=%09%20%09%20Why%20Requirement%20That%20All%20Smokers%20Be%20Prescribed%20Medication%20is%20Inappropriate%3A%20It%20Violates%20Basic%20Medical%20Principles%20for%20Benefit%20of%20Pharmaceutical%20Profits%09%20%20%20%20%20&path=%2F967435957084622010&standalone=no&scoring=yes&backwards=no&sort=date&thread=yes&permalink=http%3A%2F%2Ftobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com%2F2011%2F10%2Fwhy-requirement-that-all-smokers-be.html&skin=echo&smiles=no&editable=yes&thread-title=Echo&popup-title=Echo&page-title=%09%20%09%20Why%20Requirement%20That%20All%20Smokers%20Be%20Prescribed%20Medication%20is%20Inappropriate%3A%20It%20Violates%20Basic%20Medical%20Principles%20for%20Benefit%20of%20Pharmaceutical%20Profits%09%20%20%20%20%20The truth is no longer a matter of who owns the press, when we all own one. The rules are changing and the media is quickly loosing its grip on their preferred form of pay to play as the only means to a fashion convenient reality or an inconvenient truth, as the purchaser demands.

    • I know how to copy paste.


      • With your “performance” so far that was highly in doubt.

        But thank you, thank you, thank you, Gnome. I would never
        have been able to do this research otherwise. I’m terrified of nincompoops. But
        I’ve read all of your off-the-top-of-your-head drivel and I’m not so scared
        anymore. So thank you, it’s been great research. Have I mentioned it’s been great research? Thank you, Gnome, for an insight into people who don’t think before they speak. It’s been so enlightening. Thank you.

  40. I do really have to thank all of you I could not have paid for this kind of research. TO find such dedicated addicts is great although all nicotine addicts are just as self deluded you folks are a safe arms length away. I find it interesting that you say I am saying and doing hateful and mean things to you. THat is the “victimization” all addicts feel about the world of non addicted persons. These folks seem to take it extra personally.

    Thanks you so much. I am sure you realize that the documentary will be anti nicotine addiction and so it was helpful that you spilled the beans but most nic addicts are really addicted so they have to have a philosophy which matches their abuse but they all know if they could stop everyone would not smoke because it is disgusting and pointless and it is done in total disregard for other peoples rights and freedoms and if anyone changeling them they get so irate and rage full that it is very frightening to be an anti smokers rights advocate. But I have to be instead of living my own life because these people will do anything to have their drug and I believe children have the right to have someone advocate for them and their rights. Call me anything you like I am on the side of children and you are on the side of a disgusting, unnecessary and socially harmful toxin and if you could see it you could be free. If you can’t you will defend it to the death. Very sad I will not be back but I truly do hope you get to see the documentary and you get to learn enough to free you and your families. At the very least I hope you and I can show the world the other reasons Moms should not stay addicted.

    The reason they will not answer a direct question with a reasonable realistic answer and they get so mad is because they really believe what they are saying otherwise they would be horrified at their own behavior and they would get treatment or just stop. Many of us have had that thinking and then ended our addiction and found out that we were deluding ourselves and that is really all it take to create anti smoker. Reality! The only real difference they could come up with between crack and crackbacco is that it is legal. Any possible medicinal reasons would mean one could take it orally or with a patch. There is no reason for the nic addicts to be given special space to smoke or to congregate where other lung may be. Thanks again M Smith ED. Global Sync Media Productions

    • Thank you so much! That’s great.

  41. If only everyone were so lucky to be exposed to wonderful secondhand smoke more often. My dear Grandmother was a staunch non-smoker who was exposed to plenty of healthy smoke by her husband, she lived to 105 years old. Almost every centenarian can be traced to low dose tobacco smoke, nearly without fail. Cigar and pipe smoking, or low dose cigarette smoking is one of the best tghings you can do for your health along with plenty of Vitamins C, A and choline from eggs and liver.

    GnomeAlice is SO far out of the know. I almost feel bad for you. You read your excerpts from .gov websites and think you know more than the folks who actually read the studies and form there own conclusions. Your recommendation of nicotine replacement only confirmed my suspicions. Nicorette is so unbelievably primitive. It shows the incompetence and hubris of the medical establishment. The only time (perhaps 1 of 100) it has any effect is the placebo- people who have such a strong fetish for medical doctors and their “ultimate authority” that it makes them stop smoking out of sheer will. Of course the body will try to prevent it, its just so healthy! The body needs it to run.

  42.  If Alice is really producing a documentary, this folks is a blatant
    example of the kind of information that hits your TV screen, your
    computer screen, mainstream magazines such as Macleans, Reader’s Digest
    etc…, mainstream newspapers, on what THEY want you to believe about
    smoking, very often paying doctors and scientists to ghost sign them and
    reporters to infocommercialize them. 

     Alice unwittingly makes our point very clear:  Do not believe
    everything you read or hear.  Do the research for yourselves and gain
    back control of your lives.  This isn’t only about smoking, it’s about
    everything that corporate, political, and ideological interests want you
    to buy at the detriment of yourselves, your families and for society in
    general.  They will twist and turn even black on white facts to suit
    their agenda.  Much like Alice claims that ” The only real difference
    they could come up with between crack and crackbacco is that it is
    legal.”  when in fact I personally answered Alice that the main
    difference between crack and tobacco is that the former impairs
    cognitive function while the latter enhances it.  Maybe Alice should try
    smoking to help her concentrate on what she reads.

    Educate yourselves on the issues from all sides, analyze, use common
    sense and real life experience and NEVER take anyone’s word for it.  To
    answer a question Alice conveniently avoided answering, it takes at
    least 20 years, if ever, for a heavy smoker to die from a
    multi-factorial disease suspected to be caused by smoking.  How long
    would it take Alice and her grandchildren to die from hundreds of times
    diluted smoke in a ventilated indoor space, and whiffs
    of thousands of times diluted environmental smoke in the outdoors? 

    Iro Cyr

    Vice-President

    C.A.G.E.

    Citizens Against Government Encroachment

    http://www.cagecanada.blogspot.com

    http://www.cagecanada.ca

    http://www.fightingback.homestead.com  

    • So silly like pretesting seat belts or hockey helmets. The reason is because we the non smoker do not like walking through clouds of toxic smoke. You can dramatize and demand all you like crack is illegal for a reason and if you were non smokers you would get it but as a smoker it is impossible for you to stay on the same topic after anyone makes a real point like I do not want to walk through toxic smoke everywhere I go. I have ea right not to walk through crack smoke or be driven over by a drunk driver and those are public health and saftey issues as well. I am thrilled that oyu have done so much research for me though and to have your deluded opinions although we are quite surprised at the radical bent all of the lies you tell have taken. I will not be back because I know you folks rants by now and they will be endless no doubt. All in defense of an addiction that is going to kill you but for sure is making you miserable defensive irrational addicts. Thanks again all! See ya wouldn’t want to be ya!

      •  Did you need a law to get you to buckle your seat belt or educate your grandchild to wear a hockey helmet?  How pitifully weak of you.  Why do you think you’re speaking on behalf of all non-smokers?  How pretentious of you!  You needed the government to make crack illegal to stop you from taking it and educate your children and grandchildren to keep away from it?  How dependant of the government for your well-being!  You don’t want to walk through ”toxic” smoke?  Oh phooey, my heart bleeds for you.  News flash, life is not about everything YOU want or DON’t want.  How about you go live out in the woods and feed from rabies free racoons?  That should keep you happy until you start complaining to the bears that they are pooping all over the place and start a movement against them if they don’t obey to your commands. LOL

        I see that although you promised that you wouldn’t be back you’re still harping at it and this is why I finally responded to more of your drivel. 


  43. “Global Sync Media Productions”

    Alice, where is this “organization” run from….. your bathroom?

    While making said “documentary” try keeping the shower-curtain
    and toilet-bowl out of shot.

    Alice, where can we expect to see this “documentary”?

    On the Crackpot Channel?
    The Nutjob Channel?
    The “Why I Think I’m God” Channel?
    The Incompetent Fools Channel?
    The “I’m Way Out Of My Depth” Channel?
    The Pathological Liars Channel?
    The Dimwit With A Camera Channel?

    Do tell, Al?

    • Actually the NFB and did you notice that you seem incapable of saying anything rational and when pinned down you name call and be sarcastic? That is a symptom of addiction. I have also asked some of the people I know how are addicted but they think differently then you say you behave They all seems to wish they were not addicted. They want ot stop Your platform seems to indicate that they do not exist. There are millions of addicted people who want very much to get better and it is my intention to help them. You want them to die with you. All drunk driver s think they are righteous.


      • What’s happened, Gnome? You’ve
        really run out of puff.

        “Actually the NFB….”

        What’s that, the Nincompoops Fanatics & Bigots Channel?

        Hey Gnome, you might find this of interest……. for your research, of course:

        “……the director of Dortmund’s Institute for Labor Physiology (a Prof. Graf) argued that tobacco should be entirely banned at the workplace, due to the dangers of ‘passive smoking’….Jena by this time was a center of antitobacco activism. Karl Astel, director of the new institute, was also president of Thuringia’s Office of Racial Affairs, and rector – since the summer of 1939 – of the University of Jena. Astel was not just a notorious anti-Semite and racial hygienist (he had joined the Nazi party and the SS in July 1930), he was also a militant antismoker and teetotaler who once characterized opposition to smoking as a ‘national socialist duty’. On May Day of 1940 he banned smoking in all buildings and classrooms of the University of Jena; he soon became known for snatching cigarettes from the mouths of students who dared to violate the ban. One year later, in the Spring of 1941, as head of Thuringia’s public health office, he announced a smoking ban for all state health offices and all German schools. Tobacco abstinence was, as one might imagine, a condition of employment at Astel’s antitobacco institute: the original proposal sent to Hitler – written by Gauleiter Sauckel – noted that this was ‘as important as Aryan ancestry’; freedom from tobacco addiction was said to be necessary to guarantee the ‘independence’ and ‘impartiality’ of
        the science produced.” (Proctor, 1997)
        http://toxicology.usu.edu/endnote/Proctor-Nazi-war-tobacco.htm

        Gnome, you’re in good fascist company. You sound like a MILITANT antismoker. We may even have to consider you for the Karl Astel Antismoking Award.

        • John honey I thought you won? Isn’t the chess game over? ISn’t there a stalemate? Oh no you deemed that you won and I said that isn’t possible because I am many things but none of them are defeated. I am encouraged and I am inspired and I am vindicated by your devotion to the drug in fact I believe this conversation could be the best evidence that you are addicted to a serious drug that makes you unable to think clearly than I have ever seen.
          I am happy. I mentioned we are having a great time with your answers. Hilarious and all the research you folks have done for us we are ever in your debt. Fascist or not my friend you have provided so much help for us. All those links you have given us. It would have taken us a long time to do all that research. Great I can never thank you enough. Wonderful. In 48 hours you have saved us tons of money and so much time. Thank you Thank you Thank you.

          • No. No. Thank you, Malice.


      • Hey Gnome, you “freedom fighter” you [giggle], could you explain for
        the riff-raff like me why anti-smoking/tobacco has, historically, typically
        been associated with dictatorial (e.g., fascist) frameworks?

        [TIP1: You will have to do some actual research and not just
        listen to the “voices” in your head]

        [TIP2: If you have any sensibility at all (a long shot, I know), it should be dawning on you that you really don’t understand too much at all. You’re just a bundle of fear and hatred looking for a place to spew forth, masqueraded as “saving the world” – great accomplishment]

        • Who cares John I just want you to stop smoking in front of my house so the smoke comes in the window and makes me sick I want to be able ot go to the store with my daughter who is addicted in her car and not listen to her be short tempered and say horrible things to my grandchildren I want ot og to the children’s school and not have to walk through clouds of smoke and I want to go to the play ground and listen to Moms say that they need to get away from their kids because of the kids because that is a lie.

          They need to get away from the kids to smoke and if the kids get int the way they will not behave like Mothers at all but raging addicts who like the ones on airplane and in jails will not allow anyone to get in between them and their drug. So not working for the CTV or anti tobacco just a private citizen who is tired of addicts delusional thinking that I am somehow required to deal with your toxic addiction everyday!

          I am making a documentary about my rights. I am making a documentry titled If kids could chose and it is about parents and their children and how much children really know and see and what they think of their parents addiction and what they think of public smoking. ANd we are making a music video Titled Mama Don’t Smoke Daddy Don’t stink the words to which were written by a ten year old whose Mom has made her feel terrible her whole life because she can not tell her Mom to stop. Her mom becomes very angry and other Mom’s do to. I had a friend who was dying of cancer and her daughter begged her to stop smoking in the house. Her Grandmother had cancer three times and never smoked in her life.

          This child really wanted some peace for herself before her Mom died. But even in the end she would not give that to her child. That my friend is addicted, not a choice. You can believe what ever gets you through the night but my personal experience is that nicotine addiction is nasty and brutal to live with and the only reason it is not treated the way crack is is because the tobacco industry has a huge lobby and it is very powerful. If the crack industry could get into the white house crack would be legal but it still would not be ok for me to live with it.

          • Thank you so, SO much, Malice. That’s dandy.

  44. Alice, in absence of actual scientific data, has seemingly resorted to ad hominem and straw-mans  , probably to make themself feel better about their self imposed abstinence from what may is one of the healthiest human practices around. Of course people can become “addicted” to smoking tobacco (though addiction is typically a term people use to describe things they dont like), just like you are addicted to food, air and social interaction. It is not addiction to practice something that is healthful, pleasuring and normal. The same thing is applied to all sorts of things; sugar, caffeine, sex,  food (fats, carbs, proteins, meat). The bottom line of course, is that these things are not addictive for at the most basic of levels, extremely healthy. It’s radicals like you, along with raw food vegans and zero-carb lunatics, who strive to de-normalize others when in fact they are only trying to shift focus off of their own maniacal perversion of perfectly healthy practices.

    • Um I think I have said repeatedly that I am concerned with my own inability to avoid the stink and the smoke and the bad tempers.

      Personally I have seen so many Moms abuse their children because they could not get to the drug and all of you advice and rancor is just more evidence that nic addicts are full of rage and anger and will only realize how truly delusional they are.

      I find it hilarious that so many of you think it is a conspiracy of some sort.

      I mean you all know I am going to use this against you but you don’t even have the ability to see the train coming. You just rant and rage on. Infantile name calling and silly trivializing as if no one who ever made a film read this magazine.

      Truly delusional and all over the place. I am this or that or the other thing do you really think I can be insulted into believing that you are not all crazy rage a holics Hilarious. I wish you all could be having the laughs over this stuff that we are. Silly. so angry to keep a drug just like crack heads and heroin addicts and drunks. No reason no ability to hear that you are just wasting your life and poisoning the world. You seem to think others are just crazy that they want to live smoke free.

      You can’t because if you do the shame will be over whelming so you persist on over defending a drug that any non smoker will tell you is disgusting and stupid. You are very predictable though. I know because I have been there. I have rationalized smoking in my kids home back in the day and I have struggled with the rage and the withdrawal and the depression but I also know that once you are on the other side you wake up and it hurts to realize how stupid you were. We were taking bets here on how long it would take one of you to say this justification or rationalization or lose it on this idea or that comment.

      • As much as I love reading paragraph after paragraph about your grandchildren, and how you used to smoke, and how smokers are crack addicts (I am a “non smoker” at this time I should add, for financial reasons), you still haven’t really stated anything other than that we are akin to hard drug users and drunks.

        I have an extremely simple request, find a randomized study OR an animal study that shows smoking is deleterious to health. (Hint; there are none. Good luck searching!).

        For the record, I am going to start counting the posts you make without citing a credible (randomized or animal) study proving that smoking is deleterious.

        • Interesting that you seem to believe that only studies can tell me that I am sick of being treated badly by addicts and walking through clouds of smoke everywhere I go. I live on Queen street where packs of addicts stand outside the many clubs and smoke until the air is blue with smoke and they toss butts everywhere. It stinks and it hurt the children’s eyes and again I did mention I am interviewing children about how they feel about the smoking their Moms do. What study is it you want me to quote that proves my own experience? How odd that you think you can demand that.. You folks continue to be hilarious!

          I DO NOT WANT TO LIVE WITH YOUR SECOND HAND SMOKE IN MY FACE AND ON THE STREET WHERE MY GRANDCHILDREN WALK TO SCHOOL EVERY DAY AND OTHER PEOPLE I KNOW ALSO BELIEVE IT IS WRONG BECAUSE IT IS NOT LOW CONCENTRATION IT IS WAY MORE CONCENTRATION THEN IS OK OR COMFORTABLE.

          And now here comes the questions about cars and exhaust or the questions about nicotine addicts rights and the studies and the junk science. Don’t care Never cared and right now I don’t care twice as much as I never cared before. I am doing a documentary about what the children think about your addiction. We will see what they think after we make the documentary.

          I am making a documentary about my experience and the experience of children and their Moms . You can tell me that I am going to help the kids form thier opinions or that the society is already bigoted against smokers and so the kids have been brainwashed by public health and the World Health Organization. I don’t really care because any non smoker worth their salt would say you are delusional because you are addicted to nicotine and it makes you not think right. You can not think your way past a smoke. IU hope you all become fre one day but there is little hope for you today. Sad really because you could be so productive if you weren’t wasting your life justifying a wrong. You mention the Nazis I think the culture of nicotine we addiction we live in today is like fascism. No other opinions can enter in. Under any other circumstances you folks would very likely be able to carry on a discussion and see a point or an idea of the other person but you must defend you addiction to the death because it would be too embarrassing if you are wrong. If I am wrong then nothing happens but if you are wrong oyu have helped many people remain addicted to a death drug. Shame on you.

          • Malice, that’s wonderful. Thank you so very much much.

    • You are all so funny. No one makes me eat sugar when they eat it or drink when they drink or lose or gain weight when they do. Only tobacco addicts think it is ok to make my self and my grandchildren inhale you toxins No one else. This is more of the circular thinking you folks have we have already busted that myth.
      Of course no one is trying to make you live your life any way I am trying to stop you from inhibiting my right to chose not to smoke! No vegans or lo carb people or any of that is interfering with my rights at all. Just you folks.

      Just like if crack heads were allowed to smoke anywhere they like the smoke would be intolerable. You can keep trying to make this into a big conspiracy but it is really just that it is a disgusting habit that directly effect me and my family negatively. In the same way that socially we stop drunk drivers from driving because it has a direct negative effect on public health and safety. I do not want to walk down the street and be forced to smoke with you and you have no right to expect or defend that behavior. Period. But now you will change the subject because that makes too much sense.


      • The Dill: “I do not want to walk down the street and be
        forced to smoke with you”

        Didn’t you say that you once smoked, or is this just another
        of your many lies? If you once smoked, you should understand the critical
        difference between smoking and simply being exposed to highly-dilute ambient smoke, bearing in mind that pretty well all of the chemicals in smoke are already in the air generally.

        This idea of “passive smoking” (which originated with the Nazis, by the way) is just another baseless inflammatory term. The term secondhand smoke (highly diluted) is OK, but SH smokING or passive smokING are
        not. There are some nonsmokers who believe that when they are exposed to SHS they are being forced to smoke, that they are effectively smokING. Being exposed to SHS, which is breathing air with highly dilute remnants of smoke, is nothing like smoking. Those who believe they are passively “smoking” have obviously never smoked a cigarette. The quickest way to resolve the issue is to borrow a cigarette, light it, take a drag and inhale the concentrated packet of smoke. That’s smoking. You should notice immediately the incredible difference between smoking and simply being exposed to ETS which cannot be equated in any way with smokING.

        If you are not prepared to test the hypothesis, it should dawn on you that if
        smoking was simply being exposed to SHS, then why don’t smokers just leave their cigarette lit and breathe the ambient air? No. They actually take a drag on the cigarette – a concentrated packet of smoke – and inhale. That’s smokING.

        When you are sitting by an open fire, do you believe you’re “smoking” then? If you’re close-by to lit candles, do you believe you’re “smoking” then? If you’re close to cooking or BBQ smoke, are you “smoking” then? Etc. I hope [wishful thinking] you can see the point.

        So Gnome, you say you’re an ex-smoker. You’re a pathological
        liar.

        • See here we are again John Yes I did smoke and I developed a terrible allergic reaction to it and had to quit and I loved it as much as you and defended it almost as much as you but I was more like most smokers who don’t really WANT to be addicted but they can’t figure out how to get away because they have help from people like you to remain delusional. I get sick and children get sick and when they are allowed to express their dissatisfaction with it they are very passionate about how much of a problem it is for them. I have 13 Grand kids and NONE OF THEM WANTS TO WALK THROUGH A CLOUD OF SMOKE AND THEY HAVE TO ALL THE TIME!

          I AM PRETTY SURE IF YOU ASKED MOST KIDS THEY WOULD TELL YOU IT STINKS AND IT MAKES THEIR EYES HURT AND THEY DO NOT LIKE IT but according to you John they are not kings and so they don’t seem to have the right to choose for themselves in your scenario.  I do not like to walk down the street in my own city with my grandchildren because there is smoke everywhere and butts everywhere The Nicotine Addict is the most disgusting addict. Who else tosses their refuse anywhere they want. That is also a problem for the kids they find it really upsetting and my grand kids have never seen a city street that is not covered in cigarette butts. They are everywhere.

          Keep struggling though this is all good stuff you are putting out there. We are reading the links. Hilarious! Almost frightening. Heavily funded by big tobacco and as I have said when you do heal you will feel really shameful for a while but it passes Don’t be afraid you can get free. And if any of you Moms out there are reading any of this you know what you are doing is wrong and I am sure you know your kids are suffering from a lot of rage and bad behavior. Ask them what they think of smoking? Follow their advice they are a lot smarter than this bunch You can get free. These guys are truly hard core community haters. I am thinking they are sitting in there room where they live alone because no one wants to live with smokers other than other smokers and they rarely get along for very long because their hearts are racing every 20 minutes and they have to smoke and that really impedes their productivity and mental ability and time management too. I mean if they didn’t spend 20 minutes every 20 minutes smoking think of the free time they would have and all the extra money!

          We keep trying to leave but you folks just keep pulling us back in. Wonderful stuff I can’t thank you enough.


          • So, let’s say you’re an ex-smoker (which I don’t think you are). Why are you then saying that simply being exposed to ETS is the same as being forced to smoke? That’s a lie. Now you want to tell us that you’re allergic to tobacco smoke. Yet there are no allergens in tobacco smoke to be allergic to. That’s another lie. Then you slip in “butts”. Are you suggesting that you are also “allergic” to butts? Then your grandkids (if you have any) have to walk through a cloud of smoke ALL THE TIME. Then there is smoke and butts EVERYWHERE. Then there is a passing [unsubstantiated] reference to tobacco industry funding. Then you claim [unsubstantiated] an impeding of “productivity and mental ability and time management”. Then you claim [unsubstantiated] a loss of 20 minutes (in an earlier comment you claimed 15 minutes) every 20 minutes.

            Your pathetic claims are parroted from the “markers of
            denormalization” (advocacy propaganda manual):

            In addition to SHS “danger”, the major emphases of
            propaganda/denormalization have been –

            “Smokers as malodourous [stink]
            Smokers as litterers [butts]
            Smokers as unattractive and undesirable housemates
            Smokers as undereducated and a social underclass
            Smokers as excessive users of public health services
            Smokers as employer liabilities”
            http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/17/1/25

            Gnome, you’ve spread these over many long-winded, repetitious posts, but you’ve pretty well covered all the propaganda points in just one post. You are in the realm of neurosis, manipulation, and bigotry. You’re a pathological liar. You’re either one of the brainwashed or one of the brainwashers. Either way, you’re a sick mind.

            It has been very useful. Anyone reading these comments should be able to tell the sort of dimwits that become antismoking “advocates”. They parrot from the manual without understanding anything they’re doing.

            “We keep trying to leave but you folks just keep pulling us back in.”

            You’ve been checkmated numerous times only to respond with more bilge. There’s no need for you to crawl back out from wherever you came with more derangement.

          • Oh I missed that were we playing chess? Wow you really are delusional I mean of course you really believe what you are saying but I just find it phenomenal that you can think you are in a winning position at all.  You are intentionally remaining unaware of the reality of the addiction and nothing anyone says about themselves and their own situation phases you It is like oyu are deaf. You can’t win or check mate a non smoker What its the prize would I start smoking or start being willing to suffocate from the rage and smoke? Would I stop defending children? So silly John and I am sure you are an old guy who sits alone in his room proving to himself that his wife and kids didn’t leave him because he is a raging infantile nicotine addict who probably raged his family out of the home for tobacco.

            I will tell you that your data or evidence makes zero difference other than the lengths nic addicts will go to lie to themselves. I am asking children what they think. How they feel about their Moms I am putting cameras in places that Moms rage at their children to get to nicotine.

            We are going to track the way the children are addressed when they do bring up smoking to their Moms.

            Children do not want people around them to smoke. I am advocating a voice for them. You obviously could care less about children’s rights. That is to be expected. You don’t care about yourself or your world because it is a constant threat to your tenuous hold on reality.

  45. Editor’s protected opinion?

    I never thought I would live to see the day that CTV and McCleans would side with this type of vile and disgusting professional promoter of bigoted and hateful attitudes.

    Gnome Alice in full Techicolor, doing what he does best…. 

    Warning the following is highly offensive.

     I’m glad she/He is connected and likely paid by Tobacco Control [TC] advertising budgets.
     Just goes to show, the type of psychotic and neurotic personality
    type, that is attracted and aligned with the Bigots who promoted TC.
     
     http://www.mediaite.com/online/rabbi-who-recorded-helen-thomas-comments-is-now-suffering-from-his-own-viral-video-past/
     
     
     ”Gnome Alice 1 year ago
     
     
      I was born an Americian Jewish Mohawk (Schmohawk) in 1949
    and….I really do not understand why what Helen Thomas said about
    Israel is not just an opinion? And potentiall somewhat of a valid
    opinion since nothing has changed since 1949 over there!
     
     I think the Israelis should stop the apartheid and go back to
    where they came from if they won’t!. She did not say what is being
    reported today that she said! She did not say they should “go back to
    the Holocaust”! Which is what is being reported on CNN!!! She is 89
    years old and she is still not entitled to her opinion however it may
    offend ANY community!!!??? Maybe at 89 she is tired of the constant
    bull crap Isreal is perpetrating on the rest of the middle east trying
    to justify a poor choice that was made by the international community
    to get Jews out of harms way but they did not intend for Isreal to turn
    into a monsterous bully terrorizing the entire middle East! There are
    many Isrealis and others in the world and in the area who want peace!
    But not the US THE ISREALI GOVERNMENT OR THE OIL COMPANIES! Without
    Isreal to “defend” the west would have no frickin excuse to be over
    there at all!
     
      I am sorry I do not agree that the Jewish holocaust was the only
    holocaust and the ones that have gone on since have been diminished by
    the demand of those who lived through the one of the 1940′s is the only
    time we as a species have behaved so badly. We also murdered most of
    the 500, 000, 000 first nations people here and I don’t see any
    governments anywhere standing up and saying to the US and Canada to
    stop decimating those populations! WHy Isreal????
     
     What Israel has been doing since is apartheid and that can shortly
    amount to a holocaust. Just because a person was assaulted and their
    family was murdered does not mean that they are the only persons who
    have ever suffered and that we must all regard that suffering as only
    theirs and the only suffering!
     
     The second world war and the murder of many many Jews and Gypsies
    and Ukrainians and many other people was a bad deal for the planets
    people. We should never do that again but Helen Thomas having the
    opinion that Israel is out of control and the oppressor is not out of
    line They should get out of Palestine and stop making war on their
    neighbors. If they are serious about remembering then they need to
    remember what happened to them and do not do that to others!”

  46. Anti-smoking a popular movement with millions of grassroot citizens behind it?  Really? 

    The guide on how to implement smoke-free policies outdoors according to PSFC aka as Smoke-Free Canada. 

    http://cagecanada.blogspot.com/2011/02/inside-tobacco-control-industry-and.html

    Excerpts (but the whole article is a must read on how anti-tobacco operates and why there are so many rabid obnoxious anti-smokers in various forums) 

    “Whether they are funded by the industry or not,
    to stay on top of any organized opposition sign up for their mailing
    lists, preferably using an alias. You can also search online for
    organizations that oppose your campaign and sign up to receive email
    alerts, preferably at a home email address or some other location that
    doesn’t link you to your position in the coalition. Be sure to share
    these communications with your key coalition members so that everyone is
    in the loop and you can collectively decide how to counter the industry
    most effectively.”

    …..write (or sign ghost written) letters to the editor, etc.  (pages 31 & 33)

     

    …..submit at least two letters to the editor each month during the campaign, under the names of different authors”.  (page 33)
     

    …… A key aspect of any smoke-free campaign is to mobilize the silent majority. Most non-smokers do not speak out against smoking, but you have to tap into their power to win your case………
    For the next few months, strive to ensure there are positive media
    stories, letters to the editor, etc., that tout how well the bylaw
    changes are working. There will no doubt be a backlash from smokers in
    the beginning until they get used to the changes. In the meantime, you
    have to counter their negative comments in the media, in comment
    sections of online news pieces and blogs, on radio call-in shows, etc. Your job is to make politicians continue to believe that they did the right thing. It is not unheard of for councillors to backtrack on their decision and water down legislation. (page 48)
     

    …….. Plant stories in the media about non-smokers politely asking
    smokers to move to a designated smoking area or outside the smoke-free
    area and smokers complying. Create the impression that the bylaw is working and it will! (page 48)

     

    •  What no comments about the shenanigans of your beloved anti-smoker movement Alice?  tsk tsk tsk 

      • Malice only believes in tobacco industry conspiracy. All that has informed Malice’s opinion, all of Mal’s “definitions” and incoherent analogies, is apparently “above board”. Isn’t that just wonderful. Thank you so much, Mal.

      • I am not an anti smoking activist but you may say that I won’t sue you LMAO! I really can not find your introduction of yourself.

  47. Anyone here ever heard of Richard Smith ? Probably not.

    He was a Former Chief Editor of the British Medical Journal. Back in 2001, Smith and supporting associates at BMJ and at 12 other major Medical Journals tried to tell the world that the global medical industry is owned and controlled by the Big Pharmaceutical companies who pay out 100s of millions of ‘dollars’ every year to publish junk science studies and reports about their many many products that have serious, even life-long, even lethal, bad side effects,

    to make those products appear to be safe to take.

    Smith and everyone who supported him in trying to tell the world about it, got fired.

    Smith wrote a book about it all that was published in 2006, “The Trouble with Medical Journals”.

    And, it’s why you probably have never heard of Richard Smith, because ‘they’ don’t want you to know.

    This global pandemic ’junk science-for-a-buck disease’ has only gotten worse since, gets worse every year than the year before. The more they get away with, the further they push even worse pills.

    To cover-up, misinform, and misdirect the majority from what they do and are responsible for - making Billions from making many millions sick, and dead - it is those very same Big Pharmaceutical companies that spend 100s of millions more every year on more junk science studies and reports and funding, to convince the majority that all the rising illnesses and deaths that they cause –

    are wrongly blamed on tobacco instead.

    And they make a lot of money from that too, selling their bad side effects smoking cessation products that don’t work so people who survive taking them have to keep buying and buying and buying.

    Anti-smoking is not just about tobacco.

    • And I predicted this would come up too.

      • I’m so happy for you, Malice. Thank you so much. You’re such an intelligent treasure. I feel so blessed.


  48. The Fascist Propagandist: “I will tell you that your data or
    evidence makes zero difference”

    You’re now telling us that facts don’t matter; the “researcher”
    doesn’t want facts. Yep, I can accept that facts have no bearing in your [vulgar]
    fantasy world. Rather, you’re going to ask [brainwashed] children who have been
    indoctrinated in antismoking from an early age in the school system, and who
    can barely wipe their noses, for their “opinion” (that’s a variant of the
    Hitler Youth); “The Children” are usually a key target in a fascist framework.
    That sounds really smart. Then you want that brainwashed “opinion” of children
    to be the determining factor in smoking policy for adults. You bigoted nitwits
    are sinking to new lows.

    • creative editing: When you use a persons words out of context. I said it does not matter to the documentary I am making.

      • It DOES matter to what you’re doing.


        Proctor (1997) continues that “throughout this period,
        magazines like Genussgifte (Poisons of taste or habit), Auf der Wacht
        (On Guard), and Reine Luft (Pure air) published a regular drumbeat
        against this ‘insidious poison’ [tobacco]…….. Dozens of books and pamphlets
        denounced the ‘smoking slavery’ or ‘cultural degeneration’ feared from the
        growth of tobacco use. Tobacco was branded ‘the enemy of world peace’, and
        there was even talk of ‘tobacco terror’ and ‘tobacco capitalism’ …. The Hitler
        Youth and the League of German Girls both published antismoking propaganda, and
        the Association for the Struggle against the Tobacco Danger organized counseling
        centers where the ‘tobacco ill’ could seek help” (p.456-457); “Hitler Youth had
        anti-smoking patrols all over Germany, outside movie houses and in
        entertainment areas, sports fields etc., and smoking was strictly forbidden to
        these millions of German youth growing up under Hitler.” (www.zundelsite –
        January 27, 1998.htm)

        • Well thank you John I think I agree with oyu it does matter. I hope it makes a huge difference in the laws protecting children.

      •  Creative editing, that’s what it’s called eh?  Is that what you did when you asked me how I felt about parents doing crack by their children and when I said I disapproved because it impairs their cognitive functions as opposed to tobacco that enhances them and because it is illegal, you only chose the illegal part to report to the readership here as to why I disapprove of crack smoking near children?   

        • And did you ever notice I mentioned that my personal experience is that parents who are addicts say and do awful things to their kids and that is all the evidence I need that nicotine addicts have cognitive dysfunction. There is no other explanation for why nicotine addicted parents are so much more  aggressive with their children when they can’t get to a cigarette. I have watched the rage dumped on kids when Moms can’t smoke every 20 minutes. That is actually why we asked for a model that you folks think would work because we thought maybe we are not hearing what you would accept as a socially negotiated way for everyone to have what they want. Maybe we were being unreasonable about that and if we were we wondered what your model would look like. But we seem to have found some other people who are willing to work out a few possible scenarios. I think you were saying that your work could make a space because you agreed that there is an oder and it can burn some peoples eyes. Or it is an irritant I am not sure we will look back and see. And then apparently some of you think it does not smell bad and it bothers no one and anyone who thinks it does is delusional. So we are pretty far apart on the smoking non smoking issue.

          •  Oh Alice, here goes your bigotry again.  Many parents lose patience with their kids for many different things.  Stop singling out smoking.  As I have told you before, if smoking was our only worry.  Non-smoking AND smoking separated and overworked single parents, will lose patience for anything and everything.  Parents hooked on the internet or a sports game will become irritated when their kids seek conversation and attention.  Parents become irritated when they have to drive their kids all over the place, when they are forgetful, when they are disobedient.  Need I go on? 

            But if you still believe that smoking parents that can’t have their cigarette are the worst, and if you cared so much about it, you would take the time to read some of the literature we are throwing your way to attempt to educate you about the great passive smoking fraud.  Environmental tobacco smoke is NOT a significant health hazard to healthy children.  THIS is the truth.  And if you truly believe that smoking parents are less patient with their kids because they can’t smoke, then you have noone else to blame but the present anti-smoking fraudulent propaganda and you should be lobbying for your government to get to the truth, condemn the corporate fraudsters and bring peace and harmony back to families.  You still haven’t commented on how do you think us babyboomers and our children have survived the omnipresnt smoke at a time when even pregnant mothers smoked yet todays’s chidlren are afflicted with all kinds of ailments unheard of in our time.  Autism is on the rise, allergies are on the rise, seizures are on the rise, we are medicating chidlren with psychotropic durgs at ever younger ages.  If you really cared about the kids you’d start opening your ears and mind and appeasing smoking parents and reuniting families through  exposing the passive smoking fraud at every turn. 

          • Ya know we are going to read all of the stuff you folks suggested but I have to tell you I am very involved with many parents and children and I see a huge difference between the rage of the addicted and those who are not. Everyday. You aren’t here so you don’t know. I see it as often as the CAS see alcohol. abuse against kids. Otherwise I would be spending my time doing something else because this is too painful But I believe in what I am seeing and doing. You can tell me my own experience is wrong but I think you would not take that from me so you can’t really expect me to take that from you.

      • but we are going to check it out for sure.

      • Failed to address the issue, as usual. But thank you so much, MALICE.

    • See told you that was the next thing you were going to say.

  49. Alice writes :  ”Children do not want people around them to smoke. I am advocating a
    voice for them. You obviously could care less about children’s rights. ”

    Of course children do not want people around them to smoke.  They have been terrorized by anti-tobacco propaganda in their schools and by the likes of you and God only knows what you tell your grandchildren.  Tell a child that his mother or father are going to die because they smoke and at first they will believe you.  They will spend sleepless nights crying and building hatred around the smoke and baffled why their parents still smoke.  But one day when they grow older and their parents and grandparents are still around and healthy and even their great grandparents are still around albeit they were smokers and/or had a smoking spouse,  they realize that they have been needlessly terrorized by rabid anti-smokers such as yourself  and lose all confidence in anything else you tell them even what might be true.  All one has to do is have a look at the youth smoking at the different Occupation movements like Wall Street.  Do they look like kids that are afraid to smoke or be around smoke?  Yet they have been bombarded with anti-smoking propaganda right from the cradle.  It didn’t work.  Because they are more intelligent than you give them credit and they can tell paranoïa from balanced education. 

    • They have been bombarded with pro smoking role modeling as a romantic and rebellious way to go but not all of the kids at the occupy movement are smokers and only about 25% of people ever begin so you are saying that you would prefer that all of the kids get addicted to tobacco then? I am just trying ot get it straight that oyu think we are all victims of the anti smoking people and we should all just get some tobacco and smoke it?

      So the public health department and the schools and the parents and the medical community and the people in offices and on the job are all part of a conspiracy to make children not smoke and that is a bad thing?

      • Oh and actually I noticed that the Cleveland occupy movement started out with a ban on smoking in the area of the camp!

        • Malice, you’re a good straw-man builder. Wonderful. Thank you.

          • ??

        •  Whatever. 

          • Brilliant come back.

          • And in NYC as you are aware they can’t smoke in public so there is also no smoking in that march.

      •  No that’s not what I am saying Alice.  Open your mind a little.  You are confusing so many issues.  I am saying that terrorizing the kids about smoking is not bringing about conclusive results.  Kids will smoke if they want to and especially when the propaganda becomes so exaggerated it is no longer believable.  Stick to the truth, tell them that smoking is not a healthy habit.  But especially that abusive smoking is the worst.  Tell them if a smoker can maintain their consumption to about 5 – 10  cigarettes per day it can even have benefits, but it’s very difficult for many people to maintain it at that level because whether you like it or not it is pleasurable so they are better off not starting.  Get off the ”no safe level” propaganda.  It doesn’t correspond to their eye-witness experiences.  It doesn’t match real life.  They’re not idiots.  Tell them that it’s better that they didn’t smoke but that if they had to you would prefer that they do it once they’re old enough to weigh in ALL the facts.  The present anti-smoking propaganda is making smoking more attractive to them when they get to a certain age because they crave for the forbidden fruit.  Get off the high morality horse and treat smoking for what it is, a habit that can be risky for anyone who goes overboard.  Smoking prevalence is stalling in Canada and I’m not a bit surprised.  The lies are too transparent, people have stopped believing even what is true. 

        • I love this stuff. This is fantastic! I don’t believe you just said that! It is perfect!

          • All of these answers are so predictable. And circular. Any question that you guys interpret as possible exposing the truth you avoid. And them you go off on your little jaunt around the bend and come back to the stuff CyZane just said which, if you were being honest you would agree, presupposes there is some danger. In spite of all of your references and denial of any danger. And you also recognized the difficulty of controlling the addiction. You are quite an interesting puzzle.

            As I have said several time but just to be clear….for everyone’s understanding, we are feeding you questions we believe we can predict the way a nicotine addict would answer and mostly you are all on target. The only surprise is at the enormous amount of information you have given us in defense of the drug so that is very helpful.

          • I do want to ask John or anyone if they agree or disagree with what you wrote above. really interesting here. I would love to know what John thinks of your above assessment. I almost agree with you on this one.

  50. Oh good grief.  GnomeAlice you’ve been preemptively exposed.  A documentary has already been done… about YOU (your kind).  The film “Prohibition” was aired on Public Broadcasting two weeks ago.  So go peddle your complaints and accusations to filmmaker Ken Burns and author Daniel Okrent (“Last Call” on which this film was based).  Please let us know what they say when you call them “nic addicts [that] will go [to any length] to lie to themselves.” 

    • Um and that documentary has what to do with the one I am making?


      • Malice Honey, pay no attention. Audrey is referring to
        facts, something that you obviously don’t need.

        • Oh ok John thanks. I am glad you clarified that for me. I am not sure what would ever make anyone think smokers are and angry mean bunch you people are all so lovely and pleasant.

  51. EVERYONE THANK YOU SO MUCH!

    Gnome Alice (which translates to No Malice)  to John,      “I thought you won? Isn’t the chess game over? ISn’t there a
    stalemate? Oh no you deemed that you won and I said that isn’t possible
    because I am many things but none of them are defeated. I am encouraged
    and I am inspired and I am vindicated by your devotion to the drug in
    fact I believe this conversation could be the best evidence that you are
    addicted to a serious drug that makes you unable to think clearly than I
    have ever seen.

    I am happy. I mentioned we are having a great time with your answers.
    Hilarious and all the research you folks have done for us we are ever in
    your debt. Fascist or not my friend you have provided so much help for
    us. All those links you have given us. It would have taken us a long
    time to do all that research. Great I can never thank you enough.
    Wonderful. In 48 hours you have saved us tons of money and so much time.
    Thank you Thank you Thank you.”

    Gnome Alice and all the folks at Global Sync

    We will continue to collect your ideas and thought as long as you continue to contribute. Cheers.

  52. Oh wait we have a really good question for you. Wait wait
    We want to know what your boundries would be. If you could chose where you could smoke where would you be allowed to smoke. I want to know this because I want something to tell kids that you might propose as a model for socially acceptable nicotine use. I hope we asked this right. Come on folks time to be proactive. What is the acceptable social model you see as working for everyone? Be honest ok? And please think about it it is important. We won’t hold you to it you can change your minds and stuff but what would a fair and just model loo like in your model? Ya I know not good at self editing but I am excited and enthusiastic right?

    •  Spit $10 000 and you’ll get your answer.  After all this documentary is going to make you rich and famous, isn’t it?  You should have asked me while you were still discussing with some relative civility instead of spreading your venom around.  It’s not as if I didn’t give you plenty of chances to ask the right questions, but you accused me of wanting to smoke everywhere I wanted without even asking.  Too late sorry.   Stick to your own opinions, it’s the only ones you respect anyway.   

      • Okay, suit yourself, if you don’t feel the need to express yourself CyZane then that is fine no one is going to make you. We tried to formulate the question so that it would be easy to answer but we are thinking that none of you will answer that question. I bet 5$ that you wouldn’t but no one would take that bet. too bad for me. I could use 30$

  53. So where are about half a dozen of your millions of non-smoking compatriots to help you out here Alice?  Do you realize that you’re fighting here all alone?  I thought that there were millions and millions of non-smokers unhappy about smoking in the outdoors?  Couldn’t you get at least 3 or 4 to speak out?  Funny that, you who is such a super duper activist and all  ;-)   

    • Well A: I am not fighting at all for anything and B: I wouldn’t be here if I wasn’t trolling for information. How many of the other people are making a documentary?

      •  Oh give it up Alice.  Why don’t you just admit that you have a pathological derangement against smoke to the point that just the site of smokers makes you crazy.  You’re entitled to your opinion and even to your ailment, what you’re not entitled to is to think that a) you’re  normal b) that millions of people are like you  c) that you can get government to change policy on a capricious preference you have and especially based on lies. d) that anyone who disagrees with you is either a delusional addict or someone in the pay of Big Tobacco. 

         

        • And who is it that decides entitlement in your world Cy?

          • I am not entitled to think? Interesting!

          • I guess I should apologize to you because I have been messing with you. We are trying to provoke you. We wanted to see what you would do and say. I am usually fairly nice but I had to say and do stuff to piss you off so I could extract the voice of the tobacco hmmm well enjoyer….or I don’t know smoker?


  54. “Gnome Alice (which translates to No Malice)”

    Nice little play on the phonetics. Too bad it makes no
    sense, i.e., just another aspect of your delusional state. It’s like crypto-self-deception.
    Your bigoted rants are ONLY malicious and malevolent.

    Fascist Propagandist: “Oh no you deemed that you won and I said that isn’t possible
    because I am many things but none of them are defeated.”

    Translation: I AM god. I do not rely on facts. I am not shackled by facts. I make my own “facts”, I am always “right”, because I am “free”.

    Hey Malice, you’re not free; you’re delusional (i.e., god complex). You’re a coward, terrified to address actual facts or your dark side. Yes, you are “many things” and all of them don’t sound good.

    “We want to know what your boundries would be…”

    The only goal now is to expose dimwit fascists (i.e., you and “we”) that don’t understand too much about anything and that have been assaulting society and abusing children with their particular brand of “facts” (i.e., neurosis, bigotry, obsession with control) for quite some time. Thanks for a further insight into antismoking derangement.

    There’ll come a time, Mal, when people won’t give two hoots what you and your ilk think, what you claim, what you want, or what you demand. They will have figured out that you’re in a dangerous “la la” fantasy world. May that time come quickly.

    XOXOX

    • Perfect. John you are truly a treasure.

  55. Morning folks! Got to go. This has been cool but everyone else went home so I have to go to bed. Very exciting though. Thanks again.

  56. “I guess I should apologize to you because I have been messing with you. We are trying to provoke you. We wanted to see what you would do and say. I am usually fairly nice but I had to say and do stuff to piss you off so I could extract the voice of the tobacco hmmm well enjoyer….or I don’t know smoker?”

    Fairly nice? No you’re not. More rationalizations. Your mentality is quite pitiful, maybe even more than I thought initially.

    • Okey dokey!

  57. Alice it’s been an enjoyable experience exposing you, but sorry you now bore me and we are boring the readership.  I used this platform to expose how the minds of people of your ilk work and post a few eye-opening links, enough to get the readership curious to look into the fraud further and take back control of their lives.  Have fun doing your pseudocumentary.  It won’t be the first nor the last of its kind produced by fanatics and you’re living proof of what I and many others are exposing here and elsewhere.  As a matter of fact, save some exceptions produced/published by people with integrity, all of anti-tobacco’s documentation for at least the last 2 decades is nothing but propaganda mostly pimped by Big Pharma. 

    As a last link, I invite the readers to read this article written by a world reknown tobacco expert that spent most of his career helping people who wanted to stop smoking.  Enjoy. 
    BELIEFS, MANIPULATION AND LIES IN THE TOBACCO ISSUE – Robert Molimard
    http://cagecanada.blogspot.com/2010/12/beliefs-manipulation-and-lies-in.html  

    And don’t forget to go through the links of this page :  http://www.fightingback.homestead.com

    •  One last link for people who want to examine the tobacco issue under a different dimension.  It’s a long read but how enlightening.  Authored by Vincent-Riccardo Di Pierri, PhD.  The title of the book ”Rampant Antismoking Signifies Grave
      Danger: Materialism Out of Control”  It can be downloaded from the internet at :  http://www.rampant-antismoking.com/ 

      • Interesting. You are a contradictory little sprite you are CY. You own words expose the confusion you have in your own mind about the addiction. Have a wonderful day and life and I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your honest, albeit confused, position. This has been a very enriching experience The film will be released in the spring. I will try to put your screen names on the credits.

        •  Alice dear, I can’t go without setting you straight.  You are the one who is totally confused.  You went on harping in this forum about you having to walk through thousands of times diluted smoke in the outdoors, that there is no benefits to smoking, that anyone who says anything good about smoking or questions the present anti-smoking crusade is a delusional addict, that moms should not be smoking in the presence of their children.  You asked all the wrong questions and predetermined the answers .  Not once did you  take the time to listen and try to remotely comprehend anything we’re saying. 

          Alice, as John pointed out to you, you are confusing active smoking  with second hand smoke and this is where you’re totally off the mark.  And as long as you keep confusing the two you will always sound like a misled fanatic.  You see, even you agree with what I said above.  Now if you can agree with my opinion including that 5 or 10 cigarettes can be beneficial to some people that are disciplined enough to maintain their consumption at that level, how can you go through life being afraid and scaring the daylights out of your grandchildren about whiffs of smoke in the outdoors?  Time to dissect your own brain and beliefs Alice. 

          • Straight is that a homo phobic reference Cy??? Nah just messin cha! You can “set me straight” all you like, I know what I know and I have been around for a while so I am not really asking for parenting advice or morality classes or even trading mean or sarcastic comments I Am here for exactly what I said I am I have found a treasure trove of typical nicotine user ideas which I needed to round out our research on the BEHAVIOR and socially belligerent arrogance and escalated family violence of nic addicts when challenged or separated from their drug for more than a few moments or even suggesting to get in the way of their addiction.. We will use this information to extrapolate a subtext that is directly against the tobacco industry and the lobbyists for teaching people these lies or what you call your truth. No worries it will all be good in the end. As Cy so beautifully and contradictorily put it I just want children to know it is a dangerous drug and they should avoid it.

            I want to show the personal distress caused to children by these people if they are even thinking about not being able to “enjoy” their drug freely and I really wanted someone to answer the question of what it would look like what model would you folks accept or would we go back to smoking in Doctors offices?

          • And oddly even though you may believe I am going to make a documentary against your drug of choice you keep giving me more ammunition! I think it is one of you who keeps asking me to give some scientific proof and yet I have told that person over and over that it isn’t going to happen but that person keeps asking for the same information. See can’t think straight!

          • Miss the points all you like I am talking about second hand toxic fumes everywhere on the streets and I am talking about the rage you folks exhibit that I do not see in the non smoking public and the inverted un apologetically unhealthy way you treat your world and your community that no one who wasn’t totally addicted to a drug that changes your thinking would ever want to smoke!

            As an ex smoker who knows many ex smokers and those who are trying to become ex smokers I know what I know and you folks are wrong about my experience and I am not anyone but a person just like you and I am underwhelmed by the behavior of smokers that is my truth it doesn’t make me any of the things you all have called me other than a concerned Mom and Grandmother and no amount of insulting me or talking down to me or pro smoking misinformation is going to change that because I once was you and now I have experienced the truth for myself and I am free.

            And really …..I am sorry for all of you. It is very sad and it is too bad that people with so much intelligence and passion aren’t defending something valuable and important. My opinion means nothing to you and I am pretty sure mine means something to you or I would be all alone here talking to myself.

      • “dimension” rather than “perspective” is a perfect word in that sentence. We do believe you are in a different dimension and I think we have said that! LMAO!
        |
        Cy! I wish you could hear the giggling!


  58. Malice, you’re a rabid antismoking fanatic, familiar with
    all the propaganda slogans. You might even be a Pharma pimp. When it became
    obvious you didn’t have a leg to stand on, your comments replete with lies and
    slander galore, you pulled the “I’m only doing research” stunt. Pathetic!

    It’s either that or it’s this:

    Malice…… MY DOCUMENTARY [A day in my life - a shallow,
    neurotic, bigoted fanatic avec cruel streak]

    Morning: I pulled the wings out of some butterflies just to
    see what would happen, and it was safe for me. That was a good warm up.

    Mid-morning: Let’s see what happens. Got on to a veterans’
    site and accused them of being war-mongers and that they deserved everything
    they got. That was hilarious.

    Mid-afternoon: Let’s see what happens. Got onto an elderly
    citizens website. Accused them of being a drain on taxpayer funds. What a hoot!

    Evening: Let’s see what happens. Got onto a comments board
    with some crack head nic addicts. Accused them of all sorts of things. Never had so much
    fun.

    Let’s do some more!
    ——-

    Well, Malice, which is it?

    • Never change. John stay just the sweet tempered lovely folk you are will ya?

      • You sweet, haughty, pompous, incompetent, neurotic bigot, you! :)

        XOXOX

  59. So I don’t get to read 12 paragraphs of scolding about how I am akin to a crack addict? Maybe I shouldn’t have told you I am a non-smoker! I feel left out.

    Looks like you made about 50 posts without citing one of those “study” things I asked for, by the way.

    • Looks like you don’t read everything. I answered this. As I have said there is no need for a study this documentary is about my personal experience in my community with the addiction and I don’t believe for a second that just because a person is “not smoking” because you “can’t afford it” at the moment qualifies them as a non addict.

      • Not a former smoker either. And still waiting anxiously for an actual scientific basis to ANYTHING you’ve said.

        • Hmmm are you “still waiting for that” even though I have said very clearly that I am not concerned with the massive amounts of that that you can research yourself if you need to know it……. I am concerned with the real life suffering I see every day that is happening right here in my own community. If I was making a documentary about the kind of fashion the girls in my community were drawn to I am not sure I would go out and ask a bunch of slobs I don’t know about their opinion. I have also told you this several times.

          • It is not a scientific documentary it is a personal documentary have you ever heard of that?

  60. From Cy to Gnome:

    “No that’s not what I am saying Alice.  Open your
    mind a little.  You are confusing so many issues.  I am saying that
    terrorizing the kids about smoking is not bringing about conclusive
    results.  Kids will smoke if they want to and especially when the propaganda
    becomes so exaggerated it is no longer believable.  Stick to the truth,
    tell them that smoking is not a healthy
    habit.  But especially that abusive
    smoking is the worst.  Tell them if a smoker can maintain their
    consumption to about 5 – 10  cigarettes per day it can even have benefits,
    but it’s very difficult for many people
    to maintain it at that level because whether you like it or not it is
    pleasurable so they are better off not
    starting.  Get off the ”no safe level” propaganda.  It doesn’t
    correspond to their eye-witness experiences.  It doesn’t match real
    life.  They’re not idiots.  Tell them that it’s better that they didn’t smoke but that if they had to you
    would prefer that they do it once
    they’re old enough to weigh in ALL the facts.  The present
    anti-smoking propaganda is making smoking more attractive to them when they get
    to a certain age because they crave for
    the forbidden fruit.  Get off the high morality horse and treat
    smoking for what it is, a habit that can
    be risky for anyone who goes overboard.  Smoking prevalence is stalling in Canada and I’m not a bit
    surprised.  The lies are too transparent, people have stopped believing
    even what is true.”

    Now, come on folks,  you have to love this. Here you are stating
    exactly our premise and yet is would seem you completely disagree with this
    analysis in you previous discourse. Mostly I would like to know what John or
    any of the other Pro Nicotine folks think of the above statement. It seems to
    contradict the research you provided us with.

    •  I will repeat here part of what I said in another post because it is more relevant to this post: 

      Alice, as John pointed out to you, you are confusing active smoking 
      with second hand smoke and this is where you’re totally off the mark. 
      And as long as you keep confusing the two you will always sound like a
      misled fanatic.  You see, even you agree with what I said above.  Now if
      you can agree with my opinion including that 5 or 10 cigarettes can be
      beneficial to some people that are disciplined enough to maintain their
      consumption at that level, how can you go through life being afraid and
      scaring the daylights out of your grandchildren about whiffs of smoke in
      the outdoors?  Time to dissect your own brain and beliefs Alice. 

      • Never will answer even a simple direct question even about your own writing. Hilarious! I will stop calling you delusional because I can see that your delusion is so tied to your addiction that just like all other addicts and delusional people you can’t possibly see it.

  61. Malice,
    Inane-question time is over.
    Your credibility “ledger” is way in the red.

    [Arm stretched forward and slightly to the side, hand pitched upward]
    Malice, speak to the HAND!!

    [P.S. You should be ashamed - seriously.
    "Role model", my "horselike animal with long ears"]

    • See John run
      See John not answer any question he doesn’t like.
      See john expose himself as the infantile addict he is
      See John rage and defend a death machine

  62. Can someone else get a word in here? Let me say right away that I have no connection whatsoever with the tobacco industry or any similar organisation. Right?
    I have read as many of the posts here as I can see. I have seen Alice repeating again and again and again “ADDICTION!!!!”
    The Enjoyment of Tobacco is NOT an addiction. There is a definition of ’addiction’ which requires actual physical changes to occur in the addict’s body when he is deprived of whatever substance he is addicted to. Heroin, for example. When a heroin addict is deprived, he starts to sweat profusely, he shivers, his blood constituents change. He suffers ‘shock’ and can literally die. No such phenomena have been observed in tobacco deprivation. 

    When I retire to bed, I do not wake in the night desperate for a fag. When I get up, the first thing that I do is make a cup of tea. Only when I have made my tea and washed and dressed do I light a cigarette. When the wife and I go on holiday, we have a six hour period from entering the airport to arriving at our destination when we cannot smoke. The period without cigarettes does not bother me. The thought pops into my head from time to time but I pop it out again. The first thing we do when we arrive at our hotel is go to the bar, I order a pint and half of lager, and only when I am comfortably seated do I light a cigarette,  The tobacco is most enjoyable.

    No, the Enjoyment of Tobacco IS A HABIT. If I am addicted to tobacco, then I am even more addicted to tea.

    I am proud to be a smoker – that is because I am clearly intellectually superior to the zealots.  

    • Yup and if you weren’t an addict you could see that you are deluded.

      • If gnome could see through his fetish-induced infatuation for medical authority figures, he would see that his stance is simply a self imposed wall to try to trick himself into believing that one of the healthiest human practices is bad for him. Of course he wants to make a documentary about it, to shift focus off of his own “ideas” and to solidify his own maniacal, incoherent and ’round the bend views on such a benign substance (almost all the looneys do this, in a lot of fields). I will feel warm inside when you have to walk through a cloud of *life giving* second hand smoke. And like it or not, you will be better off for it.

        Yours truly,
        A non-smoker

        • Sorry I am a bit lost as to whom you are talking to CyZane is a woman and so am I. And I think CyZane is as sincere as you are I think people just don’t realize that we (many of the people I know and love and many other non smokers and recovering addicts) do not want it back to the 50s in the 50s one could smoke in the hospital! Deny it all anyone likes it is painful and an irritant to the eyes and nose of the non smokers. That is not a lie and you all know it. But that is your answer so I respect it I won’t argue because I just wanted you to answer it. Thank you. So I guess I would want to know why oyu think so many others should have to share your addiction when you would not expect us to tolerate drunks in our offices and they aren’t even effecting us physically?

    • SO odd that because you are one of the rare people who you claim isn’t erratic and angry then no one is? I actually know a couple of nic addicts who can do that but not any of the ones who have extraordinary pressure on them every day The women who can’t get up and make a leisure tea and relax and go on vacation The ones who are dealing with babies and crisis everyday. And I don’t get it with you folks just having a differing idea makes me a fascist and a brute? How is that How is it that you feel so threatened? How is it that you behave in such a reactive way? Why can’t any of you carry on a dialogue that includes both opinions? How is it that you think you win because you name call and put down and demand you fine so everyone is and my own personal experience is what nul and void because you say so? Funny ideas in a democracy. How is an advocate for non smoking such an enemy and a conspirator against you all and a Nazi and in cahoots with goodness knows what big corporation or just an ignorant know nothing You are silly. You can not answer a direct question that would make you agree yet CyZane did Cy zane readily admits it is addictive and it is not good for kinds and we should try to get kids not to smoke CyZane just wants us not to tell them their parents are going ot die which in my personal experience I have no idea why anyone would tell their kids that unless their parents are going to die. You there is it that you are saying it is not addictive? Or it does not cause anyone to have stress under any circumstances? Or that it should be allowed everywhere? What is your point other than that you believe you are not offensive when you smoke?Are you saying it is completely fine and we should go back to smoking in hospitals because you believe it isn’t bothering anyone else that you smoke on your vacation? Should we be allowed to smoke in an enclosed space with children? Is it an innocent fragrance which everyone would accept if the big non smoking lobbies weren’t out there pushing everyone around? What it is you think the rest of us should tolerate? Come one I keep asking but none of you will answer that and I have money riding on your answer. Come on pal take a real stand. Or you can just call me names no matter.

      • Here is CyZanes opinion Do you agree or disagree?

        “No that’s not what I am saying Alice.  Open your
        mind a little.  You are confusing so many issues.  I am saying that
        terrorizing the kids about smoking is not bringing about conclusive
        results.  Kids will smoke if they want to and especially when the propaganda
        becomes so exaggerated it is no longer believable.  Stick to the truth,
        tell them that smoking is not a healthy
        habit.  But especially that abusive
        smoking is the worst.  Tell them if a smoker can maintain their
        consumption to about 5 – 10  cigarettes per day it can even have benefits,
        but it’s very difficult for many people
        to maintain it at that level because whether you like it or not it is
        pleasurable so they are better off not
        starting.  Get off the ”no safe level” propaganda.  It doesn’t
        correspond to their eye-witness experiences.  It doesn’t match real
        life.  They’re not idiots.  Tell them that it’s better that they didn’t smoke but that if they had to you
        would prefer that they do it once
        they’re old enough to weigh in ALL the facts.  The present
        anti-smoking propaganda is making smoking more attractive to them when they get
        to a certain age because they crave for
        the forbidden fruit.  Get off the high morality horse and treat
        smoking for what it is, a habit that can
        be risky for anyone who goes overboard.  Smoking prevalence is stalling in Canada and I’m not a bit
        surprised.  The lies are too transparent, people have stopped believing
        even what is true.”

        • I have to say Cy you have drawn a very fine line here. According to this everything I have said is true I just should not take it too seriously. And for your info I never said no safe level you must be thinking about someone else.
          This is the exact thing CYZane the tobacco advocate said in her lesson on how to teach my grandchildren about nicotine addiction.

          “Stick to the truth, tell them that smoking is not a healthy
          habit.  But especially that abusive
          smoking is the worst.  Tell them if a smoker can maintain their
          consumption to about 5 – 10  cigarettes per day it can even have benefits,
          but it’s very difficult for many people
          to maintain it at that level because whether you like it or not it is
          pleasurable so they are better off not
          starting.”

          So do you all agree with this assessment or not?

      • Smoking regulations should be rolled back to 1950 era. With the exception of businesses that don’t want to. nothing mandatory. Lung cancer occurrence now is 4X higher per capita than in 1950, despite everybody smoking everywhere, all the time. I think a mixture is in order, and that would be what would happen no doubt. some places would allow it, other would not. caters to everybody.

        • Thank you for answering that. We really appreciate your clear and honest answer.

  63. Repeated here because I want to start a new feed.

    I have to say Cy you have drawn a very fine line here. According to this
    everything I have said is true I just should not take it too seriously.
    And for your info I never said no safe level you must be thinking about
    someone else.
    This is the exact thing CYZane the tobacco advocate
    said in her lesson on how to teach my grandchildren about nicotine
    addiction.

    “Stick to the truth, tell them that smoking is not a healthy
    habit.  But especially that abusive
    smoking is the worst.  Tell them if a smoker can maintain their
    consumption to about 5 – 10  cigarettes per day it can even have benefits,
    but it’s very difficult for many people
    to maintain it at that level because whether you like it or not it is
    pleasurable so they are better off not
    starting.”

    So do you all agree with this assessment or not?

    •  Alice, may I remind you that I have revealed my true identity.  Anything you say about me you have to prove it or it can and will be held against you.  Noone is anonymous on the internet and don’t even think for a moment that I can’t find out who you are.  Others have tried it and ended up in court for libel.   Now retract the ”tobacco advocate” part immediately.  As for the rest, I am done with you, speak to John’s hand. 

      And even if you weazle out of your inuendo, defending yourself that you don’t nessarily mean a ”tobacco industry advocate”, it is still false.  I am not advocating for or against tobacco.  I am advocating for revealing the lies and shenanigans surrounding the tobacco issue and especially the second hand smoke fraud.  Full period. 

      • You have revealed your true identity? Where was I? Nope and I would happily tell you who I am and you could try to sue me. LOL Really because as I go back over the links and such you seem to be an advocate and yet you seem to have a soft spot in your tiny smoke filled heart for children.

        In fact somewhere here there is a link to one of my youtube pages I am not hiding from anything and certainly not from you.

        •  I am an advocate and I revealed exactly who I was and a link to the organization I represent.  Now get your cognitive functions in tune, go back a few threads and you might find it.  You might even find a few questions you conveniently avoided answering.  After you have perused the websites of my organization and you have navigated the internet to learn more about me and what I do, prove that I am either a tobacco industry advocate or even a tobacco advocate or retract your inuendo.  Like I said others have unsuccessfuly tried it, one organization had the quasi-decency to retract but not to apologize. http://cagecanada.blogspot.com/2009/02/right-thing-to-do-nsra-style.html  One ended up in court and finally decided to settle out of court admitting his wrongful ways. 

          • Um I am pretty sure I could call you a delusional nicotine addict and suffer zero consequences for my opinion but if you need to sue me I would love that. My lawyers are free and we would love to film that negotiation too. What do you think. You in an office with annoying me and a bunch of annoying lawyers and no nicotine and knowing that I have free representation and that even if you won you can’t get anything from me. That would be a laugh riot! Let’s go!

          • Not unlike the families who have lost their loved one to a drunk driver they don’t care is drunk think they can drive perfectly well when they have been drinking. They can’t and you can not tell me what my own experience is and call me all the names you want I am a Grandmother and I have rights too. I am doing my job trying to protect my grandchildren and your opinion about that means zero to me It is just mean spirited and dysfunctional. I am going to make a documentary and the stuff you have said here will play a big part because I am shocked and the stuff you will say and do to protect yourself from the truth. The truth is I do not care if you are addicted I want you to stop being in my air space and I don’t care if you think you don’t stink or it doesn’t effect anyone negatively or that you think we are all brainwashed because you can’t possibly see how much bull all of that is. Why do you treat our world like your own personal ashtray? I am sure one of you doesn’t so that guy will now jump up and say he doesn’t so that makes it not true? In the end you are all so wrong it is sad but anyway I am taking some comfort in the fact that you can’t smoke outdoors in New York City I am sure that will help the rest of our cities ban your addiction and banish it to where it should be in the alleys hiding amongst the other crack heads.

            You folks have radicalized me I was just going to make a simple little video about kids but now I see it needs to be about you and you arrogance. Once again I have to give you my deepest thanks.

  64. Heres what I think CyZane I would be thrilled if you sued me Come at it. And I will not do anything like retract anything That is silly. You folks have made so many outrageous insults and misstatements about me that I thought reasonably it was a free for all and that is certainly the way any judge would see it if you ever got anywhere with that. Hilarious! You never cease to cheer me up my dear. I thought you were splitting? Well I will miss you but I see no point in oyu sticking around You have said all you want to and you are bored and hilarious…did I mention hilarious!? Belly laughing all of us. You have neglected to answer the questions I asked but it has made no difference because we really got what we wanted from you anyway. I have thanked you and I will be sure to credit you in the film now that you have given me your identity. Lovely!

  65. We have been looking for what you called introducing yourself and any place that you did not advocate for tobacco and we can’t find anything.

  66. We are thinking that this convo is just about done so we once again would like to thank everyone and we wish you all the best. I will try to figure out how to let you know when it is released so you can all rip it to pieces. They only bad press is no press as they say. Cheers.

  67. Alice,
    You really must see a ‘MENTAL HEALTH SPECIALIST’. You are suffering – I do not know what exactly you are suffering from, but you are suffering. Only a person who is suffering could possibly believe that the atmosphere is normally ‘clean’. It is not. It is filthy! There are MOLD SPORES (fungi) inundating the atmosphere – billions of them. There is POLLEN in unimaginable quantities. There is DUST. There are FUMES – all in vast quantities. By comparison, tobacco smoke is minuscule. But you believe every word that Tobacco Control Zealots tell you.

    And what is it that worries you? Merely the fact that you can actually RECOGNISE what you believe to be tobacco smoke, whether it is or not. To you, every pong that you experience is tobacco smoke.

    Because you do not like the pong which you think is tobacco smoke, you want the atmosphere, everywhere in the world, to be only contaminated by MOLD SPORES, and POLLEN, and DUST and FUMES, but not what YOU think is tobacco smoke. You want this JUST IN CASE you, personally, happen to turn up one day in Timbuktu.

    How did you come to be so unhinged?   

    • Thank you so much for your contribution Alice is away from her desk at the moment but she will be back in the morning.

  68. Anti smoker reverend and sooth Sayer, Simon Chapman in a published study at the British Medical Journal, [http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/17/2/73.full] reveals [bragging rights] the multitude of ways that smokers are being slandered in the promotion of smoking cessation products, that at the end of the day reduce significantly someone’s chances of quitting, if that is what they truly wish, or to force others by coercive means, to use them, regardless of their wishes. Both will fail to quit, in more than 96% of the cases that these so called medical treatments are prescribed. Only the reach of corruption, that invented the indefensibly exaggerated and irresponsible fears of second hand tobacco smoke, from within the medical communities, could we promote a snake oil product, to being named a ” medical treatment” with such an abysmal production of failure, compared to using nothing at all.

    RIP cigarettes by mandatory laws which were imposed upon smokers without harm assessments, discussions or debate emphasize the new reality of “no safe level of tobacco smoke” edicts, that only products which will increase health risks to millions of consumers, will be allowed to pass into law without opposition. Whereas all products which seek to decrease health risks, by physical, common sense and scientific means, such as flu cured tobacco, electronic cigarettes and smokeless tobacco products will face significant opposition from the medical community, [except those special products, deemed "medical treatments" by financial conflicts of interest] with the mandate of proof at the top of the list of detractors. Is Public health dedicated to maintaining the mortality and morbidity numbers as their ultimate influence over elected officials, in a similar multitude of ways that smokers have been promoted by bigoted stereotype, for their use of a legal product? By back to front advertising schema and half truths by nondisclosure, we are eliminating the law which is clear, that decisions affecting personal health, are the sole domain of the individual and not within the realm of a busy body paternalist political regime.

    No one, because they don’t smoke is forced to be included in a bigoted group, which demands bullying and hateful anti-smoker attitudes. In spite of what the Public health lobby has pronounced to be normal in their “health reform” perspectives.

    • I guess this continue to need to be clarified I am not part of any group and in fact I have never even research either side of the issue. You folks are the first people I have ever tried to talk to about it so your are blowing smoke there. I have always been a community activist and have been a non smoker for some time now. I am talking directly about what I personally experience in my own life. All the rest of the stuff you folks have brought has nothing to do with me I am not part of a movement. I am trying to protect the rights of myself and my own family because of our own personal experience with the drug nicotine and smoking And you can bluster on all day it isn’t going to change that. I was given more information here about not smoking in fact than I have ever seen and about smoking but it does not change the fact that I am making a documentary about myself and my grandchildren and our experience.

      • oops this is posted twice because i meant to post it here.

        Not unlike the families who have lost their loved one to a drunk driver
        they don’t care is drunk think they can drive perfectly well when they
        have been drinking. They can’t and you can not tell me what my own
        experience is and call me all the names you want I am a Grandmother and I
        have rights too. I am doing my job trying to protect my grandchildren
        and your opinion about that means zero to me It is just mean spirited
        and dysfunctional. I am going to make a documentary and the stuff you
        have said here will play a big part because I am shocked and the stuff
        you will say and do to protect yourself from the truth. The truth is I
        do not care if you are addicted I want you to stop being in my air space
        and I don’t care if you think you don’t stink or it doesn’t effect
        anyone negatively or that you think we are all brainwashed because you
        can’t possibly see how much bull all of that is. Why do you treat our
        world like your own personal ashtray? I am sure one of you doesn’t so
        that guy will now jump up and say he doesn’t so that makes it not true?
        In the end you are all so wrong it is sad but anyway I am taking some
        comfort in the fact that you can’t smoke outdoors in New York City I am
        sure that will help the rest of our cities ban your addiction and banish
        it to where it should be in the alleys hiding amongst the other crack
        heads.

        You folks have radicalized me I was just going to make a
        simple little video about kids but now I see it needs to be about you
        and you arrogance. Once again I have to give you my deepest thanks.

        • Yeah, Alice. We already seen that.

      • Alice, dear!
        There you go again! You say nicotine is a drug. Please tell me what is not. We used to have a reasonable idea of what we mean by the word ‘drug’, depending upon the circumstances of the use of the word. For example, ‘drugs companies’ manufactured ‘good’ drugs, while ‘druggies’ took ‘bad’ drugs. ‘Good’ drugs were asprin etc, ‘bad’ drugs were heroin etc. But you are now trying to convert ordinary substances into ‘drugs’ – like sugar, tea, coffee, water, nicotine, air, beer, fat, cola and so forth.

        You have NOT been giving a history of your life at all. You have been spewing out propaganda and lies, just like the quack professors, quack doctors and quack politicians. QUACK! QUACK! QUACK!

         

  69. We thought of one more question. And this one is from one of the kids. How does any of you explain or justify or rationalize, sorry we are trying to figure out what the kid said….how do any of you think of the cigarette smokers who “use the street for an ashtray.”? This is important to all of us because we have listened to all of the arguments which we are assessing yet we can’t believe that it is ok with any of you that so many of you toss their butts everywhere. It is also a very reasonable question.

    • It is ALMOST a reasonable question! It is not QUITE reasonable because GRAVITY pulls stuff to the ground. That includes everything heavier than air. It includes RADIOACTIVE PARTICLES, FUNGI SPORES, POLLEN, DUST, FILTHY RAIN, LEAVES, CRISP PACKETS, BURNED OUT CARS, AIRCRAFT WRECKAGE, CHIPS, POLITICIANS’ WORDS, YOU, AND SO ON.

      Why do cigarette ends appear MORE OFTEN on the ground? Because people have been FORCED to smoke on the streets BY THE GOVERNMENT. 

      There is also another matter. Filter tips used to be made of paper. The Government FORCED tobacco manufacturers to use cellulose because it absorbs more tar. Cellulose does not rot as quickly as paper, therefore THE GOVERNMENT have caused the problem.

      But IS there a problem? What is the problem? Filter tips are not poisonous or anything. What is the problem? Just sweep them up like tree leaves! They are harmless. 

      • UNBELIEVABLE! I am so happy you are saying these things. Such blatantly blind circular logic. Again I have to thank you all for you candid responses. Awesome Every time we ask you a question your answers are so un thought out and unreal and narrow. Hilarious! and very sad. You really believe what you just said and I know you do to and if I disagreed with you will become more and more CERTAIN that you are right. Awesome! Such amazing responses I never really expected that we would get so much great writing from smokers and such amazing research! Couldn’t pay to get this stuff! Thank you so much.

  70. Alice,
    What questions did you ask the ‘kids’ in order to bring their attention to something that no ‘kid’ would ever notice? – Filter tips in the street.
    No ‘kid’ that I have ever known ever notices such things – it is not in their nature, They notice only those things which are interesting to them – such as bikes, ice-cream vans, mice, dogs, cats, friends, mothers, dads, policemen, balls, bats, trees to climb, and so on. When did your ‘kids’ become weird?

    • You may tell yourself anything you like but you can’t make what you demand to be true true by demanding it. What about adults who notice it are they allowed to say they don’t like it?

    • Well you won’t believe it so not much point in telling but I asked her what the most difficult problems she has going to and from school and other places? She could have said the smoke or cars or an number of things but she heard David Suzuki say that the birds feather their nest with the filters and the chemicals soften the egg shells and the birds can’t survive. And her friend said that they had a report on the oceans and lakes that they were studying in geography and they had to make a pollution drama and she had made on showing that the oceans are over burdened but filters and the toxins that come with them, You asked. Don’t brother blustering about it because everyone here already know what you are going to say so yawn keep it please. No one here expects you to care one way or the other and insulting us is irrelevant. It just shows that nicotine addicts can’t handle and descent.

  71. You folks are so addicted it is taking away your ability to think, I have all we need and of course we don’t agree but that’s ok You are only four or five addicts The many that I know are suffering their lung hurt and they don’t feel good and they complain about how they feel all the time and they aren’t lying or making it up. They want to stop being a slave to any chemical. You are happy with your choices great for you however ridiclous you are to me you are incapable of seeing or hearing the reality which is very obvious You move from one subject to another and you are saying insanely wrong things.

    You sound EXACTLY like all other addicts. I do not take advice from addicts nor am i concerned about what they think of me. I a grand mom and caring community member have been treated badly and told lies to justify your addiction and your abuse and your environmental irresponsibility and I have said before and I will say it again You have made our job much easier and we appreciate it but I have been both a smoker and a non smoker and I know that until I was free I would fight tooth and nail and lie to myself that it was ok and no I don’t Get treatment!

    Try it on the other side for a while and see how it goes. Maybe your brains will function better. It is fear and chemicals that are making you a very bad citizen. That last thing about the butts is just about the most ignorant thing I have ever heard and I don’t see this conversation going anywhere but into the toilet with your judgement and mental ability. I hope you fools do not live near me.

    • Dear Laughing Gnome

      More smokers than those commenting have watched this extraordinary ‘conversation’ unfold (and admiring our colleagues’ tremendous doggedness and wit). All the energy and effort you have expended on trying to save us from ourselves might have been more usefully deployed on the streets of your ‘community’ where you could be actively trying to bring enlightenment to all the smokers blighting your immediate environment. After all, they’ll be stuffed full of nicotine as long as they’re smoking, so they’ll not be inclined towards rage or violence. You could take your grandkids along to show the evil addicts what innocent young bodies they are intent on corrupting. You wouldn’t just want to be considered an armchair activist, would you? And keeping your special insights to yourself is just selfish.

      See you on a street corner soon, I hope.

      • I have spent zero time trying to save you at all I was trying and accomplished research into the responses I would get from a conversation about the issues for a documentary I am making about the people around me who are struggling with the issues especially children.

        I appreciate each and every comment you have made and as I have mentioned we will continue to collect these poignant and thoughtful remarks you have been contributing.

        As to my selfishness I am not sure we have met. I do know what the people around me thing of me and I will probably stay with that because they actually know me.

        As I have said every day, thank you all so much for your contribution to our research. We are assessing all of the links and information you have so freely and generously provided for us and the considered and reasonable arguments you have taken the time and trouble to contribute.

        There is a story about PT Barnum I would love to share with you if you have the time.

        When PT first brought his “emerging circus” to the US he was I believe in New York with many wondrous things to see. He had set up in a really large space but the show was so popular it became very crowded and the people did not move through the Emporium very quickly so they became too close together and some couldn’t get in. PT Decided to put up a sign at the back doors that said “This Way to the Egress” As very few people knew that the word means exit they all ran to the doors and went out.

        I told this story because you mentioned selfishness. And I have mentioned ignorance.

        • Meaning that just because one person knows something the rest of the people don’t does not make them selfish or wrong.

          • I do think it is interesting that you have advised me to do what it is I am already doing. I hope CyZane and John don’t catch you at the because I don’t think that is what they would say was what I should do!

  72. It is such a pity to hear of children being propagandised – such a pity. Of course, once they get into their teens and realise that they have been lied to all these years, they will kick over the traces and rebel. They will become smokers and drinkers. Isn’t human nature awful?
    But are you sure that they are being told that the oceans are awash with filter tips? I mean…really? The thing is that the oceans are so vast that, in volume terms, all the filter tips ever made would not be noticeable in the oceans. In any case, microbes in the oceans feed off such stuff as cellulose and the tar within filter tips. (The tar is just another form of oil – you know, the stuff that the Florida oil spill pumped into the sea and which was cleared away in no time by microbes) If I was you, I would ensure that you rid their minds of this nonsense.
    As regards your ‘research’, I have  never heard of ‘research by diatribe’ before. How does it work? Do you just yell out insults, nonsense and falsities and see what reaction you get? Well…I suppose that’s one way to do research.
    And there you go again – bawling out ADDICTION! ADDICTION! ADDICTION! DRUGS! DRUGS!DRUGS!  I didn’t think that I was actually addicted to tea, but I suppose that I must be. Do you know that properly ‘cured’ tobacco smells just like tea bags? Actually, tobacco leaves and tea leaves are almost exactly the same thing! So I would not let your grandchildren drink tea - think of all the harmful chemicals, thousands of them. Oh, the same goes for coffee. Addicted to tea and coffee and destined for a premature horribly painful death.
    Alice, you keep saying that you are going away, but you don’t. Why is that?   

    • Could it be that you are addicted to the sound of your own voice?

      • Could it be that I am not you? We have different ideas and goals and concerns in the world?

    • How is it that you all seem to think that just because there are other issues in the world that I should not have this one as my concern. So strange that no matter what I say or how I say it you all seem so threatened by even the tiniest light of any kind being shed upon your habit of smoking tobacco? Did you notice that you can’t hear anything without either misdirecting the thoughts away from nicotine or attacking the messenger? Were you under the impression that I was asking your opinion about what work I may do or what ideas I might hold or what I may say?

      None of you has single thing to say that has dissuaded me in even the slightest and I would think that would be obvious. I think that if we were talking about land use or what to have for supper you would be able to have an adult reasonable conversation but because we are talking about something you are addicted to and that most of you know you are wrong about that you are aggressive and unreasonable but then that is just my opinion which in Canada so far I am entitled to.

      Me thinks thou doth protest too much! May hap you need to be more honest than aggresive.

  73. I know you folks will just say that all of the people who say this stuff just like the sound of their own voice or the are in league with whatever anti tobacco conspiracy and I am not seeking an answer but just so you can see that I am not the only person who thinks there just could be a problem.

    http://www.beachapedia.org/Cigarette_Butt_Litter

    http://www.pitch-in.ca/Media/E-Media136.html

    http://www.cawrecycles.org/issues/cigarettes

    http://sandiego.surfrider.org/campaigns/hold-on-to-your-butt

    http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/20/Suppl_1/i25.full

    http://universe.sdsu.edu/sdsu_newscenter/news.aspx?s=71209

    http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/10/cigarette_butts.php

    http://www.cigwaste.org/ The above are all only a very few articles about the butts polluting your world. Now I know that none of you will believe any so no need to splutter on about that either just giving you an opportunity to see where we are looking besides to a bunch of addicts for our information.

    The following is just a smattering of folks that none of you will read or agree with nut no matter you are certain to remain deluded because you are an addict and you can only choose between being addict or treatment.

    http://whyquit.com/whyquit/LinksAAddiction.html I find this one helpful because they DO NOT ADVOCATE USING NICOTINE REPLACEMENT so that shoots all you drug company accusers arguments out of the water because at the very least these people are just trying to be free and that is how I got free too I just stopped because I didn’t need it and it cost too much irritated my children ears eyes and noses and made everything stink. Three very good reasons to stop doing something that is even just for those problems.

    http://whyquit.com/whyquit/LinksAAddiction.html

    http://drugabuse.gov/researchreports/nicotine/nicotine.html

    http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hc-ps/tobac-tabac/body-corps/addiction-dependance-eng.php

    http://www.camh.net/About_CAMH/Guide_to_CAMH/Addiction_Programs/Addiction_Medicine_Service/guide_nicotine_dependence.html

    http://www.smoke-free.ca/

    http://www.nicotine-addiction.org/

    There are hundreds of places for people to get help to stop smoking. You say that all of those people are deluded and working for special interests such as the pharmaceutical companies. In fact a few of you have denied my own experience and said that I am working for CTV and for big Pharm and deluded by PSA’s. Okay Doaky says I that sure does make sense. And all of those organization such as the World Helath Organization and the local people begging governments for relief from the horrible smell and the toxic smoke are all either liers or stupid sheep but smoking is unquestionably the right “choice” to make! Fair enough. No problem with you if I allow myself to decide for me and my Grandchildren whose information is more credible for us.

    None of you realize that you are hostile and arrogant and misinformed and misdirecting and addicted BECAUSE IF ADDICTS ADMIT THEY ARE ADDICTED AND THAT IT IS EFFECTING OTHER NEGATIVELY ESPECIALLY THEIR FAMILIES THEY WILL HAVE TO CHANGE AND THEY DON’T WANT TO! THAT IS ADDICTION! You can not point at me and say that there is any reason other than my own personal experience and say the same thing.

    Anyway be clear I am not in any way trying to make oyu do anything I wish you the best and I hope for you that you are one day able to get past the shame and guilt and see what you are doing and stop it but I don’t care if you do and you should not care what I do to protect my family and the rights of children around me who have no voice. I am in side a large group of lovely little people and no matter how much you struggle against it they are aware and they do not approve and you are intentionally (well because of your addiction so really not intentionally) injuring and disrespecting the children of our planet. That shame is yours. Every time you emerge from your addicted cloud of toxic waste you know in your own heart that what you are doing is socially unacceptable and deadly and that if you could really choose you would not do it for each and every reason I have outlined here.

    All addict feel that they are weak or that they have a special perspective. All addicts deny they are addicted and deny that they are doing anything negative to anyone else. All addicts deny the truth and can not tell the truth as well. All addicts misdirect and distract themselves from reality to save their brain fro hearing the truth. I would suggest that most of you have been in this argument before and that is why you have such an enormous hate on for anything vaguely anti nicotine and that means your spouse or your kids have suggested that you need to quit and you have created this mystical reason that you know different and I am pretty sure at least some of you have had deep family wounds caused over the issues and the ones of oyu who are honest are near tears if they read this because I know who you all are. Most of you have hurt at least one loved ones feelings to protect your addiction and I would say most of the real hard core ones live alone and know why. I know for a fact each and every one of you know you have reacted really badly to something that was not really anything because you couldn’t get a hit fast enough and oyu are embarrassed about it. I would think that if you are a normal addict this can happen several times a day until everyone around you thinks you have a hair trigger and some of you go around blustering and snorting every time anyone says they don’t want to be in a room with either a nic addict or smoking.

    Most of us know if we are working with nicotine addicts they have to stop everything and go outside or they will have a melt down so that stops everyone’s work or makes the nic addict fall behind. This plays out in schools and offices and workplaces everywhere. One of the partners in our company works in the film industry and there are many addicts who have to stop filing or working or whatever they are doing and go outside and smoke or they will begin to simmer and rage and complain. When I went to school it was the same way that is why you can deny my own experience all you like I was one of those nic addicts demanding to get out and that other people whit for me and I have also been a non smoker being harassed and distracted by a nic addict who needed his smoke.

    And yes of course I like the sound of my own voice is that some kind of insult? I am inspired to save the children in my neighborhood and to defend them and to help them have a voice and you folks have provided me with tons of information so I am excited and enthusiastic why shouldn’t I be? But then you can’t see that I am a good citizen because your house of cards will fall down so you have to attack me and belittle me which is fine that is a nic addict thing I wouldn’t understand. LMAO!

  74. Gosh, that was hard reading! Yawn, Yawn. Addiction! Addiction!

    Filter tips are made of cellulose.

    “”The major component in the rigid cell walls in plants is cellulose.”" (Wikipedia)

    Cellulose is plant material. So why are you so afraid of filter tips? (Oh….by the way….your use of the word ‘butt’ in respect of cigarette ends is incorrect, unless you mean cigarettes without filters. A ‘cigarette butt’ is the remaining bit which is discarded but which is tobacco, and not plant material).

    Humans and animals do not directly have the ability to digest cellulose (so it would be as well not to eat filter tips, even though they would do you no harm since they are just the same thing as fibre in your diet (highly recommended by dietitians)). Cows etc, however, have bacteria in their gut which can break down cellulose, Lots of the same sort of bacteria inhabit the sea and lakes etc. They gobble up this plant material called cellulose.
    Perhaps you might like to research that subject – but not by screaming abuse – books do not respond to abuse.

    I have read lots of stuff like the sites you quote. QUACK! QUACK!  Simple propaganda.

    • See told ya!

    • And screaming abuse? I think we are at different parties.

      • Absolutly!

  75. Wow what a trip! You guys do seem to be kinda mean. I guess you know that there are lots of non smokers who don’t agree with any of what you are saying. And Gnome you seem to be the only one ehre trying to speak for non smokers. What’s the deal? Why do you care what these people do or don’t do?

    • I am making a documentary about my community and the rights of children to have a tobacco free life.

      • These folks are hard core addicts and defenders of the ….hmmm I am not sure what but anyway they are just some test subjects we are researching reactions to certain questions about public tobacco use and kids rights. These guys are very helpful. And I think they are aware that they are helping us but they don’t seem to be able to stop themselves from giving us the evidence and research we need even though they seem very distressed that we are going to make it. They seem quite defensive and threatened but we expected that. We feel really inspired though because they are so  pitifully addicted that we are hopeful that even these conversations may help someone to rethink their position. Anyway maybe we can help the kids have a voice. Thanks for asking it has been a bit lonely here. But we are getting lots of great responses.

      • Why don’t you look after your own kids and grand kids and leave other people to look after their own?
        What force are you intending to use in order to impose your own ideas? Do you have the funds to take ever child into care? Will you have monitors in every home along with closed circuit TV? Sounds like 1984 to me. “Big Brother is watching YOU!!!”

        • Jeeze given those questions I guess you would think that crack heads are smoking every where today and they aren’t. Why is that do you think? Is it because they are addicted to a drug that is dangerous and stinks? Because that is the direction I would be happy to see tobacco go. It should be as legal as crack and it should have the same exact rights involved too. There is no difference today other than the legality. All addicts should be treated the equally. And I do take care of my life and I am responsible Have you never heard of people who love their planet and their community and work toward a better life? Geeze do you challenge every body who is trying to help others this way or just those  who don’t agree with you?
          So you are saying that now I have no right to make a better world for children? Who are you?

          • I am not asking you what rights you have. As far as I know, you personally have no rights over other people’s children. But it would be nice to know why it is that you want to make other people’s children’s lives miserable.
            You say you want to make a better world for childeren. It sounds to me as though you want to make ‘better’ children for the world – other people’s children, needless to say. 

    • The reason that she is alone is that she is the only manic anti-smoking zealot in town. Her ignorance is beyond parody.
      For example, what harm have children ever come to as a result of living with smoking parents? There is no evidence of such. On the contrary, kids who are exposed to environmental tobacco smoke have been found to suffer far less asthma.FAR LESS!! 

      • See what I am sayin’? The place is a research mecca for die hards. They have said some awesome stuff like that and they really believe it!!!! Couldn’t find that anywhere and they don’t seem to be able to stop them selves from contributing but that is the addict part. They are making the case for us. Amazing.

  76. And here is another piece of information for you, my dear Gnomeskull. During the last several decades, smoking prevalence has been falling and falling. At the same time, the incidence of asthma cases has been growing and growing.
    I am not claiming ’cause and effect’ – just mentioning the FACTS. Perhaps your cronies in Tobacco Control did not tell you about that?
    So tell me again what evidence you have that children have ever suffered in any significant way as a result of environmental tobacco smoke? (Do not count children who already have some sort of chronic illness – that would be cheating)
    And here is another interesting question for you. I am addicted to tea. Please tell me what is wrong with being AN ADDICT in respect of tea. Tell me, precisely, what is wrong with being AN ADDICT. 

    • You can’t expect a little thing like evidence and facts to penetrate the skull of someone who thinks smokers are just like crack addicts, only smellier. As you said, ‘beyond parody’. If it weren’t for the erratic spelling and lack of punctuation, I would think GnomeAlice is a bot.

      I’m still waiting for a report back on Gnome’s efforts at reforming smokers on the street by telling them they’re delusional crack addicts who are killing baby birds and poisoning the seas.

      • Not trying to reform smokers. You are making a stuff up to delude yourself that someone is trying to control you. I am trying to control my life and my environment. You are fine to be as addicted or not addicted or smoke or don’t I don’t care at all nor do I care what you think of what I am doing. More sillyness and misdirection. Why are you so threatened?

    • OK guys the concept is that I am an indy film maker who is making a documentary about her own experience with tobacco and nicotine addiction. And there are lots of addicts no one said there is anything wrong with them I said they have caused and do cause myself and my family many problems and I am interested in exploring that in film I find it funny that you keep hiring me as a conspirator in some anti smoking campaign. I have said over and over I don’t care if you smoke. I care if you smoke and it creates a problem for me that myself or my kids or my community defines as a problem for us personally. I want to ask you why you think it is you all keep making up stuff that I am supposed to be? You need me to be conspiring and to be against you smoking. But I am not I am against you smoking anywhere I go. You can say anything you like I have as much right to be against that as you do to think what you like.

  77. I am still happy to continue to document your comments and we thank you so much for your contribution. It is very helpful. Night folks

  78. I  am so tired of heaing that people who smoke are weak,selfish,evil etc,come on people we could be doing things that are horrible,get over it,its a persons right to do what ever they please,having a smoke does not make someone a bad person,and i dare one person who complains and whines to say they have never had a drink,i see others put down someone who smokes while they themselves are relaxing with a beer,its laughable.I also get very angry that it is banned most places,i do beleive in this ban to protect others and have no problem with it but i do not like it that there is no such ban or people who insist on wearing obnoxiuos perfumes or colognes that many others are allergic to,when will that come into place?It is much needed and long overdue!

  79. Yeah this is a true fact. I also experienced this thing. Most of women always try to hide it from their children. 

  80. Who cares if mommy sometimes sneaks a smoke or two.
    Parenting is hard! Never judge someone until
    you walk in their shoes.. Atleast we are not doing it around
    the kids and exposing them. Sneaking a few cigs
    a week is not the same as smoking two packs
    a day, people just need to calm down these days. I think pressure
    to be a perfect mom ( from perfect schools,organic
    foods, did I breast feed long enough,am I constantly
    educating my child and playing enough, are they involved
    in enough activities, too many activities, global warming,jeez)
    I want to smoke just writing the list, but I will
    wait until my girls go to bed. I am about to feed
    them an organic lunch, and have craft time!

  81. Lmao…I’m on here looking for ideas as to wht on earth I’m going to do when my baby gets here;I’ve done my best to cut down while pregnant but it’s just so hard to completely give up.I don’t want to be tht evil person smoking around my child so it’s like wht to do?I mean if I want to go outside & sit under the trees is it ok to smoke downwind from the baby?or wht if I want to go for a really long walk?idk of course I don’t smoke in my home & everything is defumegated for the baby but summer is coming & I’ll want to do outdoorsy stuff

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