Harper’s promise: a warrantless online surveillance state

Why ‘lawful access’ legislation is on its way and why that should worry you

“We are not in any way shape or form wanting extra powers for police to pursue [information online] without warrants.”

That was Stockwell Day, speaking to me in 2007. He was the Harper government’s public safety minister at the time, and his office came into controversy when consultation documents surfaced suggesting that the Conservatives were drafting a “lawful access” crime bill that would greatly expand the powers of police to obtain personal information about Canadians from their Internet service providers without court oversight.

If such a bill were to become law, cops would no longer need a warrant to trace, say, an Internet comment to a citizen’s name, IP address, email address, home address, and cell phone number. In fact, as long as the police had any one of the above, they could request the rest of the info from ISPs without a judge ever considering the need for such disclosure.

But Minister Day was emphatic—my concerns were misplaced, the controversy unnecessary. He had no intention of proposing any such bill. He claimed that the leaked document was a leftover from the previous Liberal administration. He later told the Ottawa Citizen that though such powers would help the police, they were an affront to “our expectation of rights to privacy.”

And warrantless web tracing?

“That is not the path we’re walking down at all, ” said Day.

Two years later, the Conservatives walked down that path.

After a cabinet shuffle, the public safety minister in June 2009 was Peter Van Loan, and he sang a very different tune to me about the need for expanded police powers.

Van Loan tabled a ‘lawful access’ bill that would give police exactly the powers Stockwell Day told me they wouldn’t need. The new minister saw this as no big deal—Canadians, he told me, had “no reasonable expectation of privacy” when it came to this information. In other words, when you leave a comment on this website under a pseudonym, it is unreasonable for you to expect that the police will not be able to trace it to your name, cell number, home address, email address, and other web activity, by linking it to your I.P. address. Such information, he told me, is just like a listing in the phone book.

Others begged to differ. The Ottawa Citizen called the ‘lawful access’ bill “out of balance,” Colby Cosh called it “a bogus, ill-advised expansion of State power,” and the Montreal Gazette called it “unnecessary” and, more to the point, “bad”.

Last month, Canada’s privacy commissioner, Jennifer Stoddart, along with every provincial privacy commissioner in the country, sent Public Safety Canada a letter expressing their concerns about the lawful access bill. Namely, they didn’t see any need for it—ISPs already hand over whatever information police ask for, without a warrant, when the cops claim there is immediate danger or child endangerment. They called the bill “problematic”  and wrote that there was “insufficient justification” for the new powers, suggesting “less intrusive” ways for law enforcement to fight crime.

For years, lawful access has been bouncing around, awaiting debate and modification as yet another cabinet shuffle brought Vic Toews into the public safety minister’s office.  Now the Harper campaign promises us that all their outstanding crime bills will be bundled together and shoved through Parliament within 100 days of a Conservative victory.

It’s a promise to do significant damage to the civil liberties of every Canadian, and one Harper’s opponents would do well to pounce on.




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Harper’s promise: a warrantless online surveillance state

  1. Let's not forget that this initiative was born out of the Liberal government and hasn't gone through too much change in the 3 iterations of the Bill. Don't Blame Conservatives.

    • Don't blame Conservatives?!?!?!?! What are they incapable of hearing all the reasons its not a good bill to pass and making a decision to drop it?? They just HAVE to push it through because the Liberals mulled it over for a bit? You're an idiot and the Conservatives are creepier by the second.

      • It doesn't have to be cancelled and It's not a partisan issue. Canada is being forced down this road through Global pressures. I never indicated I supported it. There are ways to enable "Lawful" access with proper due diligence in mind, which in fact has been going on for some time. Yes the current legislation needs updating. I've been following this file, and have published on the subject, for over 10 years now.

        • Wow- Peter, you're absolutely correct in your comment… this thread is stacked with liberals who can't see past the red on the tips of their own noses.

          • Not all of us are Liberals thank-you very much -_-  I am Independent, since none of these political parties seem to actually CARE about  THE PEOPLE’S rights.  They all are able to be bought-off and swayed by money.  It is a corrupt system that loves $$$ therefore, I vote for none of these traitors to Canada.  These people make me ashamed to be Canadian now.  I used to love my country…Now it is a joke that doesn’t care about it’s people.  It is a Dictatorship.  I can picture Stephen Harper being the next Adolph Hitler, only instead of going after the Jews, he’ll be going after anyone who disagrees with him or ever put him down (and he’ll be able, with the help of these spy bills, to find out any citizen of Canada that has ever insulted him)…And we all know EXACTLY how the relationship between Hitler and the Jews turned out now, don’t we?  (Think about WW2, 6 million Jews KILLED in DEATH CAMPS, all because they were Jewish.)  I can honestly  see, later on down the line, after he’s issued a TOTAL police state, Stephen Harper ordering us who disagree with him & his agenda, being ordered into death camps, all because we don’t bow down and worship at his feet.

          • we have internment areas already. thank god red cross went to attawapiskat when harper ignored a declared state of emergency. i’ve been sitting in radioactive owen sound for two years now being intermittently gassed and tasered in the head and groin. people in this town are limping and growing lumps- i have three on the back of my neck. we are not only denied health care, but some of us have been outright tortured by nurses in hospital for seeking health care. i’m sicker than most because i was recovering from a critical illness when i got here. news of three nuclear plant accidents  is being buried and distorted. recent reports on ontario crisis are being ignored, and no charges are being laid in several clearly serious criminal events. over 500 confirmed cases of near fatal nuclear poisoning at bruce nuclear, uranium, cobalt 60, and heavy metals. these injured workers have been denied work, compensation, health care, health information, and now harper’s lunatics would like canadians to bully them back to work or starve them by denying unemployment! Absurd! Hateful! Report on abuses by nursing staff of elders in care facilities including hospitals is atrocious also. Healthy elders kept illegally confined, wrong medications prescribed, and patients in pain every day. No criminal charges. How long does hitler two get to play god before somebody stops him? owen sound harbor is declaring itself secure to transport depleted uranium to sweden while people are under attack. we have electronic weapons in action and zero defence presence near a nuclear plant that has already leaked out. scarborough MP has tabled a petiton against electronic weapons abuses in their area. still zero defence response. peter mackay ain’t getting his mail. i wonder who is sorting out the terror alerts? harper needs cuffs and ontario needs mobile health and possible evacuation. this ain’t down the road, guys. we have a bodycount already and a crime syndicate running ontario. they are using our power plants as weapons! Cuffs on harper. We have people reporting being tasered in the head and groin and he’s running ‘business as usual.’ Spooky and creepy are running ontario into the ground and toxifying our great lakes and air! It is terrifying!

        • Peter, you've done a poor job of "following this file" if you have failed to notice the difference in how the Liberals did their public consultation on lawful access and this approach, and that the Liberal effort did not remove the requirement for traditional warrants and oversight. Those are rather significant differences.

          • You all have bought the Left/Right paradigm, hook-line-and-sinker.  Wake up and realize that these are the puppets, and the masters simply put in who they need to run the show….. 

    • Let's not forget that the world has changed considerably since the Liberals were in power. Partisan logic (spin) is ever so daft. The origins are not relevant – what matters is the NOW, and it is the Conservatives that are pushing this forward.

      • No, the bureaucracy, in this case Public Safety Canada, has continued to push it forward despite the left or right leaning of the government of the day.

        • And if the left or right leaning government of the day doesn't resist, then we have every right, and even duty to blame the party for not doing so.

          Don't blame the Conservatives? Piss off. I'll blame whoever's letting this stuff go through. If it's the CPC, at the time, you're damn straight I'll blame them. If it's the Liberals, then I'll be blaming them. But telling me not to blame one of the political parties? What should a person do then? March into Public Safety Canada and start shooting? No.. we control our bureaucracy by controlling their leaders, our politicians.

          • "What should a person do then? March into Public Safety Canada and start shooting?" The authorities are on their way. Don't blame the Conservatives.

          • You used to be a half-assed reasonable commenter. Now you've resorted to telling people to piss off? Clearly I over-estimated you. I understand the poll results thus far have you a little testy, but you're making an a$$ of yourself. Just thought I'd let you know. You're welcome.

        • You are completely out to lunch. Ask ANY civil servant if the Harper government follows their advice about anything and you will be met by gales of bitter laughter. If you've really come to this conclusion after following the file "for ten years" you are in the wrong business.

    • The media tries to alert Canadians to what the Conservatives are trying to do, Why isn't this story on the front page of every newspaper in the country? I'm not sure which upsets me more. the fact that the Conservatives are taking us down the road to a police state or that someone like you is willing to go along for the ride.
      The fact is most Canadians are totally unaware of how their rights are being undermined by this legislation. We send members of parliament to Ottawa to uphold our democratic rights , not to undermine them.
      How many of our men and women died fighting for the very rights you are blindly willing to surrend?

        • I read your article but that has only left me confused as to why you don;t hold the Conservatives responsible for pushing this legislation forward. The Liberals may well have tried to introduce the idea but the Conservatives have taken a bad idea and expanded it. You can accuse them lacking orgininality but you can't use "he did it first" to justify continuing to undermine the civil liberties of Canadians. . Public Safety can push their agenda but they can't introduce legislation in Parliament. The blame rests with Mr Toews .

      • I really hate Canadian media somedays – they are obtuse, they just collect a paycheque.

    • Here's something you may want to consider, Hillier.

      Today, the Conservatives are in power, so you're comfortable with the police using the Lawful Access powers to go after budding Jihadists and criminal gangs and all the rest. I think due process needs to be followed even if more criminals get away because of it, but you may have a different opinion. What about critics of the police? Maybe you're of the opinion that they can do and do not to any wrong, but in a world where they can dig up anyone's personal thoughts at the touch of a button, who would dare blow the whistle on a police scandal?

      And consider tomorrow; the Conservatives aren't in power. Then what happens? What about that unfavourable opinion you may or may not have left under a pseudonym about the Arabs, or Jews, or the Aboriginals. You want to go in front of a Human Rights Commission? Or face criminal charges for inciting hatred?

      How about the police contract a company to troll the internet, start matching comments to identities, and create a massive database of citizen's online activities. The database could be searched for patterns indicating, say, a likeliness to bomb an abortion clinic, with greater than 10 posts on the subject containing inflammatory "key words" indicating a "likely probability" of attack. The police raid your house, find an unregistered handgun and send you to jail. Or unwittingly uncover an extramarital affair and end your marriage.

      The possibilities and abuses are endless. The Police State can clearly cut both ways.

      • What about that unfavourable opinion you may or may not have left under a pseudonym about the Arabs, or Jews, or the Aboriginals. You want to go in front of a Human Rights Commission? Or face criminal charges for inciting hatred?

        That already happens. Duh.

    • How can you be so stupid? The Conservatives are the ones enacting it, pushing it. Are you going to blame the Liberals if the Cons reinstate the death penalty, and your grandchild is executed? Or when they bring back mandatory conscription for wartime, which Harper is undoubtedly praying for — and your kids are going into the army whether they want to or not? That's going to be the fault of the Liberals too?

    • Peter, ur absolutely correct, censoring internet, etc. even phone calls personal calls will be done under a Liberal Gov't.

      This type of lessening of free speech is not the mandate of any Conservative platform, Conservatives are for Free Speech, increased crime legislation protecting the innocent victims of crime and putting criminals behind bars, keeping corp. taxes at a low enough rate so that corps. stay in Canada create business and jobs for Cdns.

      The monitoring of our conversations will be done by new powers given to the CHRC that will be given to it by a Liberal Govt. NOT THE CONSERVATIVES!!!!

      • Ok, I can see that you wrote your comment 8 months ago, so…Now what do you have to say about what you wrote previously about the Conservs NOT being the ones to bring the very crap they are bringing these days?  I wonder, can you see that both the Conservs AND the Libs play for the same team agenda??

    • Peter Hillier, you are factually incorrect.

      Having been a formal respondant to Liberal lawful access efforts I can factually tell you that those bills/consultations did NOT lift the requirement for warrants when providing customer information or authorizations. Those are BRAND NEW changes that the Conservative party has ushered in. The Conservative proposal goes considerably further, and lacks some of the nuance, of the Liberal bill. Both bills are unwelcome but the failure to even keep lawful access within the scope of the existing warrant and search apparatus is a tremendous step backwards. I can also say that the Liberal effort saw far more public scrutiny and consultation. The Conserative bill has by contrast has been introduced more quietly and with less opportunity to correct its flaws.

      Seriously, be more careful next time. Some of us have been on this issue for real and know that the Conservative take puts us in far more jeopardy.

    • they ALL have the choice to say "No" to this, Lib. or Con. That the Cons. have had 5 years to bury it and haven't speaks volumes of their intentions.

    • It doesn’t matter who initiated this.  This is not a left vs. right thing, this is a bad idea vs. reason thing.  Judges exist for a purpose and warrants are granted when needed.  If we are to claim Canada is a free country, we need to be free from undue scrutiny and protect the true spirit of rule of law, regardless of which party forms the present government.

    • Difference one. The difference between this initiative and the previous Liberal one is the enforcement portion of the Bill. In the case of C-30, the Minister can designate any person (or any class of persons) to go into any TSP to check on compliance. In doing so, that person can take copies of any and all documents, files, server contents, etc., from the TSP. No warrant is needed because this is “enforcement” not investigation and Law Enforcement isn’t involved. 
      Difference two. C-30 outlines who is and is not a TSP. Anyone who provides access to the internet is a TSP except those in Schedule 2 (restaurants, hotels, private dwellings). Business IT departments are not excluded, meaning the Minister can go into my company and take all of the data on our servers for “enforcement” purposes.

      Please stop the rhetoric. This is a fundamentally different bill in terms of the Minister’s powers even if it’s comparable w.r.t. Law Enforcement.

  2. Let's not forget that this initiative was born out of the Liberal government and hasn't gone through too much change in the 3 iterations of the Bill. Don't Blame Conservatives.

  3. Don't blame Conservatives?!?!?!?! What are they incapable of hearing all the reasons its not a good bill to pass and making a decision to drop it?? They just HAVE to push it through because the Liberals mulled it over for a bit? You're an idiot and the Conservatives are creepier by the second.

  4. Let's not forget that the world has changed considerably since the Liberals were in power. Partisan logic (spin) is ever so daft. The origins are not relevant – what matters is the NOW, and it is the Conservatives that are pushing this forward.

  5. Its disconcerting enough to know that our e-mails (@yahoo.com, @msn.com, @gmail.com and for me @dal.ca) fall under the scope of the Patriot Act because their servers are housed in the US. The last thing Canadians need is the RCMP probing our private correspondance as well.

    • Back to letters delivered by private messenger, carrier pigeons, smoke signals – back to the days when people knew someone could be reading their mail. Reason for wax seals. Pony Express anyone? Telepathy, perhaps.

    • its not the RCMP that will be monitoring our internet, phone conversations, letters to editorial pages of newspapers but the CHRC founded by the Liberals, and if the Liberals get in ur freedom of speech will be lessened and it will be the CHRC that will monitor these conversations, editorials etc. on any comments against anyone in Cdn. society.

      Quit blaming the RCMP, this org. is doing what their mandate is to investigate crime hidden via internet etc. behind the scenes, terrorism etc.

      The Conservatives have not hampered anyone's free speech but the Liberals will with the use of the CHRC.

    • u IDIOT, won't be the RCMP monitoring our conversations, & written text but the new found powers given to CHRC to do this and it will be the Liberal Gov't. that will do this. this type of monitoring has been developed and is currently just waiting to be brought to a Liberal Parliament to be enacted under already existing hate laws under the CHRC and the CHRC was formed/born under Liberal Gov't.. The CHRC will be doing the monitoring under a Liberal Gov't.!!!!! of internet, private phone calls, writing in to magazines, editorials of newpapers etc. when one expresses his/her opinions on certain issues.!!!!! NOT INITIATED BY THE CONSERVATIVES!!!! Monitoring speech is not a Conservative thing/platform whatever!!!

      • I certainly have no confidence that the Conservatives will respect my right to Internet privacy when even on the campaign trail they are using supposedly "private" information from the Internet to determine who can or cannot attend party functions.
        http://www.torontosun.com/news/decision2011/2011/

        And for those who wish to claim that Harper and his cronies support Free Speech… Could you explain why hundreds of people protesting in the official "Free Speech Zone" were kettled and then arrested at Harper's G20 debacle?

  6. Its disconcerting enough to know that our e-mails (@yahoo.com, @msn.com, @gmail.com and for me @dal.ca) fall under the scope of the Patriot Act because their servers are housed in the US. The last thing Canadians need is the RCMP probing our private correspondance as well.

  7. It doesn't have to be cancelled and It's not a partisan issue. Canada is being forced down this road through Global pressures. I never indicated I supported it. There are ways to enable "Lawful" access with proper due diligence in mind, which in fact has been going on for some time. Yes the current legislation needs updating. I've been following this file, and have published on the subject, for over 10 years now.

  8. No, the bureaucracy, in this case Public Safety Canada, has continued to push it forward despite the left or right leaning of the government of the day.

  9. The media tries to alert Canadians to what the Conservatives are trying to do, Why isn't this story on the front page of every newspaper in the country? I'm not sure which upsets me more. the fact that the Conservatives are taking us down the road to a police state or that someone like you is willing to go along for the ride.
    The fact is most Canadians are totally unaware of how their rights are being undermined by this legislation. We send members of parliament to Ottawa to uphold our democratic rights , not to undermine them.
    How many of our men and women died fighting for the very rights you are blindly willing to surrend?

  10. yeah!

  11. Canada%E2%80%99s privacy commissioner, Jennifer Stoddart has been a champion in this area – globally. My bets are on her.

    As far as Harper pushing crime bills through within 100 days – that was a sound byte for the base. Just like Layton promising he will have all his promises up and running within 100 days.

  12. Canada's privacy commissioner, Jennifer Stoddart has been a champion in this area – globally. My bets are on her.

    As far as Harper pushing crime bills through within 100 days – that was a sound byte for the base. Just like Layton promising he will have all his promises up and running within 100 days.

    • Stoddart spent the past three years wringing her hands over Facebook nonsense. Anyone who thinks FB's privacy settings – or lack thereof – are worthy of government oversight clearly has no hope in hell of accomplishing anything worth while. Your "bets" won't change that.

    • I wouldn't put it past him he did however push those bills thought in an omnibus before.

  13. I care

  14. Canada's privacy commissioner, Jennifer Stoddart has been a champion in this area – globally. My bets are on her.

    As far as Harper pushing crime bills through within 100 days – that was a sound byte for the base. Just like Layton promising he will have all his promises up and running within 100 days.

  15. I care

  16. And if the left or right leaning government of the day doesn't resist, then we have every right, and even duty to blame the party for not doing so.

    Don't blame the Conservatives? Piss off. I'll blame whoever's letting this stuff go through. If it's the CPC, at the time, you're damn straight I'll blame them. If it's the Liberals, then I'll be blaming them. But telling me not to blame one of the political parties? What should a person do then? March into Public Safety Canada and start shooting? No.. we control our bureaucracy by controlling their leaders, our politicians.

  17. Someone who's decided he's going to devote some time to specialize in the combination of societal-technological issues, and who apparently is good enough at it to get paid for it.

    So probably more of an expert than many of us.

  18. Someone who's decided he's going to devote some time to specialize in the combination of societal-technological issues, and who apparently is good enough at it to get paid for it.

    So probably more of an expert than many of us.

    • Like reality, expertise has a well-known liberal bias.

  19. I believe you can lay this at the feet of our perceived need to accommodate the wishes
    of the US security state … which few people, other than maybe Glenn Greenwald, are
    talking about. Bush and Cheney fed and watered it but The Great Liberal President has
    been quite happy to extend and expand it.

  20. I believe you can lay this at the feet of our perceived need to accommodate the wishes
    of the US security state … which few people, other than maybe Glenn Greenwald, are
    talking about. Bush and Cheney fed and watered it but The Great Liberal President has
    been quite happy to extend and expand it.

  21. I read your article but that has only left me confused as to why you don;t hold the Conservatives responsible for pushing this legislation forward. The Liberals may well have tried to introduce the idea but the Conservatives have taken a bad idea and expanded it. You can accuse them lacking orgininality but you can't use "he did it first" to justify continuing to undermine the civil liberties of Canadians. . Public Safety can push their agenda but they can't introduce legislation in Parliament. The blame rests with Mr Toews .

  22. "What should a person do then? March into Public Safety Canada and start shooting?" The authorities are on their way. Don't blame the Conservatives.

  23. Like reality, expertise has a well-known liberal bias.

  24. It is naive to think that CSIS or CSEC do not already have adequate (if illegal) access to all of the personal information listed. Whether they have this access with the co-operation of ISPs or without it is an interesting question. Police forces and other enforcement agencies are perhaps less willing (and typically less able) to access the information without both co-operation and legal backing.

    A larger danger is whether we have a government in power that is willing an able to use this kind of access for political purposes. When we, the citizens, suspect that the government can track us down and is willing to take action against us for expressing dissent, there is a chilling effect on public debate.

    Whether this situation is the case, I leave as an exercise for the reader.

    • "A larger danger is whether we have a government in power that is willing an able to use this kind of access for political purposes."

      Yup. Or we will in the future. Even if you love Stephen Harper and trust him with this power, it's just a matter of time before there's somebody in charge that you don't trust.

      • Exactly. Today you might get tracked down and harassed for posting a video showing a violent police takedown.

        Tomorrow you get tracked down and harassed because you don't believe in global warming, or use violent language when describing abortion rights, or feminism, or race-based policing.

    • If I recall correctly, the push for the bill came about because after the first few times ISPs realized they shouldn't be handing out personal information upon mere request by law enforcement.

    • Similar to the long form census, no? or perhaps Vote Compass on CBC? We give information all the time and have no idea who or what will have access to it and how the information will be used.
      Issues like terrorist communication, identity theft, human traffickking are all areas where the criminals have better technology than the police.

  25. It is naive to think that CSIS or CSEC do not already have adequate (if illegal) access to all of the personal information listed. Whether they have this access with the co-operation of ISPs or without it is an interesting question. Police forces and other enforcement agencies are perhaps less willing (and typically less able) to access the information without both co-operation and legal backing.

    A larger danger is whether we have a government in power that is willing an able to use this kind of access for political purposes. When we, the citizens, suspect that the government can track us down and is willing to take action against us for expressing dissent, there is a chilling effect on public debate.

    Whether this situation is the case, I leave as an exercise for the reader.

  26. Totally. He must be a Mr. know-it-all-fancy-pants-big-mouth-idea-talker.
    We have ways of dealing with those types!

  27. Totally. He must be a Mr. know-it-all-fancy-pants-big-mouth-idea-talker.
    We have ways of dealing with those types!

  28. "…the bureaucracy, in this case Public Safety Canada, has continued to push it forward…"

    At this very moment Harper sits at his desk, head in his hands, defeated. "This bill is a gross violation of Canadians' constitutional rights and is a step toward a police state. It goes against everything I stand for… but those damn bureaucrats, they're pushing it forward! I don't have a choice!"

    I think you're reaching pretty far to find someone to blame besides Harper himself.

  29. "A larger danger is whether we have a government in power that is willing an able to use this kind of access for political purposes."

    Yup. Or we will in the future. Even if you love Stephen Harper and trust him with this power, it's just a matter of time before there's somebody in charge that you don't trust.

  30. Ah, the omnibus bill. Take a massive amount of legislation, roll it all up together and ram it through Parliament with insufficient time to debate everything it contains.

    Like prorogation, omnibus bills are a normally-innocuous tool that can be abused to neuter Parliament.

  31. Hmm. So you're saying Harper lied there. (A lie because he didn't mean it when it came out of his mouth, not an honest opinion based on the facts as you knew them at the time–which was then changed by different facts). And don't get me wrong, I understand your supportive, "that's okay, it's just spin" attitude. I distinctly remember doing that myself, provincially, once.

  32. So we have your assurance it wont be buried under the tory omnibus crime bill dung heap do we? Not like there's any precedent at all is there?

  33. It's being pushed forward by public safety – the bureaucracy!

    Ah well, that's it then. Absolutely zero opportunity for a sitting govt to exercise its perogative to push back on our behalf. Plenty of opportunity on the other hand to not accept accountability. Wonder what would ever lead me to that cynical conclusion?

  34. It's being pushed forward by public safety – the bureaucracy!

    Ah well, that's it then. Absolutely zero opportunity for a sitting govt to exercise its perogative to push back on our behalf. Plenty of opportunity on the other hand to not accept accountability. Wonder what would ever lead me to that cynical conclusion?

  35. Long-gun registry??? :-P Ooops – that wasn't 'buried.

  36. Long-gun registry??? :-P Ooops – that wasn't 'buried.

  37. I would think there is a better chance of getting crime bills back in motion than Jack's new programs.

  38. It's an awful bill but pegging this on the back of the CPC is wrong.

    It's the US that pushing for things like these, and no matter who is in power, they have to comply.

    • Funny, I don't remember seeing the stars & stripes on the Parliament building lately.

    • Or they could…. you know… have some balls, and….. you know….. stand up for our rights and freedoms.

    • That's absolute bunk. Canada can require police to seek warrants for this kind of information regardless of what other jurisdictions do.

    • Bah, who cares right? It's like Bouchard said, Canada's nor a real country anyway.

    • It's also the EU. They've had similar legislation for much longer than the US and you can bet it's part of the suite of demands being made in order to enter into the trade agreement with them. Indeed, they're pretty open about these demands (harmonizing our own access and privacy regimes with their own).

    • The US does all kinds of retarded things. We don't always need to go along. I'm not saying I've made up my mind about his issue. But "the US wants us to" is not a reason to do something.

  39. It's an awful bill but pegging this on the back of the CPC is wrong.

    It's the US that pushing for things like these, and no matter who is in power, they have to comply.

  40. If I recall correctly, the push for the bill came about because after the first few times ISPs realized they shouldn't be handing out personal information upon mere request by law enforcement.

  41. So is he lying or not? Does he intend to do this, or not? Simple yes or no question.

  42. So is he lying or not? Does he intend to do this, or not? Simple yes or no question.

  43. Funny, I don't remember seeing the stars & stripes on the Parliament building lately.

  44. Or they could…. you know… have some balls, and….. you know….. stand up for our rights and freedoms.

  45. Sure. As if a sitting PM would ever show that level of contempt for paliament.

  46. That's absolute bunk. Canada can require police to seek warrants for this kind of information regardless of what other jurisdictions do.

  47. Here's something you may want to consider, Hillier.

    Today, the Conservatives are in power, so you're comfortable with the police using the Lawful Access powers to go after budding Jihadists and criminal gangs and all the rest. I think due process needs to be followed even if more criminals get away because of it, but you may have a different opinion. What about critics of the police? Maybe you're of the opinion that they can do and do not to any wrong, but in a world where they can dig up anyone's personal thoughts at the touch of a button, who would dare blow the whistle on a police scandal?

    And consider tomorrow; the Conservatives aren't in power. Then what happens? What about that unfavourable opinion you may or may not have left under a pseudonym about the Arabs, or Jews, or the Aboriginals. You want to go in front of a Human Rights Commission? Or face criminal charges for inciting hatred?

    How about the police contract a company to troll the internet, start matching comments to identities, and create a massive database of citizen's online activities. The database could be searched for patterns indicating, say, a likeliness to bomb an abortion clinic, with greater than 10 posts on the subject containing inflammatory "key words" indicating a "likely probability" of attack. The police raid your house, find an unregistered handgun and send you to jail. Or unwittingly uncover an extramarital affair and end your marriage.

    The possibilities and abuses are endless. The Police State can clearly cut both ways.

  48. Exactly. Today you might get tracked down and harassed for posting a video showing a violent police takedown.

    Tomorrow you get tracked down and harassed because you don't believe in global warming, or use violent language when describing abortion rights, or feminism, or race-based policing.

  49. Bah, who cares right? It's like Bouchard said, Canada's nor a real country anyway.

  50. Meh. I can't get bent out of shape over this. In fact in some ways I see it doing only better than the status quo.

    If the ISP's are handing out this information ANYWAY w/o a warrant when the police request it, having some kind of laws and rules in place governing the practice is better than having none at all, and leaving it entirely up to the ISP's discretion.

    Also, I don't think surveillance of a suspect would even be possible with today's technology without the ISP's handing this information over. Suspects could completely avoid digital spy's by bouncing from one Wi-Fi connection to another. And with smartphones today, people can walk down the street in any urban core and switch networks multiple times in a minute.

    Besides, I'd be quite surprised if they didn't already have another way to get this information.

    • Well here's the thing- right now it's technically cumbersome for ISPs to trace this data, but they do so upon police request in extraordinary circumstances. If lawful access is passed, The ISPs will have to build technology to automate the process and hand the keys over to the cops. After that, tracing "Sourstud" to your real name, email address, and home address will be as easy as tracing a car's plates.

      You're quite right that criminals will evade this- if you know you're breaking the law, there are many ways of encrypting your activities online. But the rest of us will be exposed to any cop who feels like checking us out with a push of a button.

      The cops would essentially be surfing a different Internet than everyone else and most folks wouldn't even realize it.

      • The more savvy criminals will evade this, but plenty of the regular dumb kind still around.

      • Jesse, not just police, but "public officers" as well. That means, every Director level, or above, in the public service that has some quasi-intel function will be seeking info from the ISPs. Ask the ISP's how they will they turn it into a commodity service? What will the fee structure look like? They will never keep up with the inundation of requests. The overhead will be abysmal. Like I said, I've been participating in the Public Safety forums on these bills for 10 years. The government may throw a bit of money at the large ISPs, but it's one huge sinking privacy ship. Those bills will not get ratified within 100 days; they won't get to 3rd reading in that period of time.

    • "Big Brother is watching. Beware of Bad Speak." Practice Good Speak." Welcome to 1984. Not freaking likely, thank you very much. This bill would make your entire life an open book to any a$$hole in Gov who wants to dick with you. Filing a complaint with the Police Commission over something wrong you saw a cop do? Guess what, he can now smear your name for nay thing you have said or, done on the 'Net since you first went online. Joined A Cutter support group when you were a young Goth, 20 years ago? Now it's used to slag you for over your complaint. Everything you put on the "net is there FOREVER! And you don't think anyone in 'Authority" who can access anything you've ever done _isn't_ a BAD idea? Are you on drugs? What happens when your boss decides to ask his friend the cop what his employees do online and it is discovered by your staunchly Christian Boss that you belong to a bunch of pagan belief groups? Your job is 'down the road.'
      The potential for abuse is absolutely staggering! Some people, myself included are members of non christian religions that although technically protected from persecution by the Charter of Rights still face bigotry. That is a sad fact in our "enlightened" society.

  51. Meh. I can't get bent out of shape over this. In fact in some ways I see it doing only better than the status quo.

    If the ISP's are handing out this information ANYWAY w/o a warrant when the police request it, having some kind of laws and rules in place governing the practice is better than having none at all, and leaving it entirely up to the ISP's discretion.

    Also, I don't think surveillance of a suspect would even be possible with today's technology without the ISP's handing this information over. Suspects could completely avoid digital spy's by bouncing from one Wi-Fi connection to another. And with smartphones today, people can walk down the street in any urban core and switch networks multiple times in a minute.

    Besides, I'd be quite surprised if they didn't already have another way to get this information.

  52. Well here's the thing- right now it's technically cumbersome for ISPs to trace this data, but they do so upon police request in extraordinary circumstances. If lawful access is passed, The ISPs will have to build technology to automate the process and hand the keys over to the cops. After that, tracing "Sourstud" to your real name, email address, and home address will be as easy as tracing a car's plates.

    You're quite right that criminals will evade this- if you know you're breaking the law, there are many ways of encrypting your activities online. But the rest of us will be exposed to any cop who feels like checking us out with a push of a button.

    The cops would essentially be surfing a different Internet than everyone else and most folks wouldn't even realize it.

  53. I get all of that, I really do. And it doesn't exactly please me, I just don't find that it bothers me much at all. I'm much more concerned about systematic public video surveillance and satellite surveillance, for example. *adjusts tin-foil hat* And I'm also a firm believer that if the government can legally do something, they might as well do it efficiently and have a framework for how the whole system is supposed to work, what's legal what's not.

    How many people here would object if the census required high-speed internet users to put in their static IP? Or CRA demanded to know the domain-names of any revenue generating websites a company owned? I'm guessing not too many.

    Update:Whoops. That was supposed to be to Jesse above.

    • they might as well do it efficiently and have a framework for how the whole system is supposed to work, what's legal what's not.

      ***

      You can accomplish this while still being far better than the law as proposed.

  54. I get all of that, I really do. And it doesn't exactly please me, I just don't find that it bothers me much at all. I'm much more concerned about systematic public video surveillance and satellite surveillance, for example. *adjusts tin-foil hat* And I'm also a firm believer that if the government can legally do something, they might as well do it efficiently and have a framework for how the whole system is supposed to work, what's legal what's not.

    How many people here would object if the census required high-speed internet users to put in their static IP? Or CRA demanded to know the domain-names of any revenue generating websites a company owned? I'm guessing not too many.

    Update:Whoops. That was supposed to be to Jesse above.

  55. It's also the EU. They've had similar legislation for much longer than the US and you can bet it's part of the suite of demands being made in order to enter into the trade agreement with them. Indeed, they're pretty open about these demands (harmonizing our own access and privacy regimes with their own).

  56. You used to be a half-assed reasonable commenter. Now you've resorted to telling people to piss off? Clearly I over-estimated you. I understand the poll results thus far have you a little testy, but you're making an a$$ of yourself. Just thought I'd let you know. You're welcome.

  57. What about that unfavourable opinion you may or may not have left under a pseudonym about the Arabs, or Jews, or the Aboriginals. You want to go in front of a Human Rights Commission? Or face criminal charges for inciting hatred?

    That already happens. Duh.

  58. Stoddart spent the past three years wringing her hands over Facebook nonsense. Anyone who thinks FB's privacy settings – or lack thereof – are worthy of government oversight clearly has no hope in hell of accomplishing anything worth while. Your "bets" won't change that.

  59. The more savvy criminals will evade this, but plenty of the regular dumb kind still around.

  60. they might as well do it efficiently and have a framework for how the whole system is supposed to work, what's legal what's not.

    ***

    You can accomplish this while still being far better than the law as proposed.

  61. The US does all kinds of retarded things. We don't always need to go along. I'm not saying I've made up my mind about his issue. But "the US wants us to" is not a reason to do something.

  62. The up-side of all this is… all these new prisons can become our future Government paid Retirement Homes for all us out here with opinions that someone someday won’t like. :)

  63. The up-side of all this is… all these new prisons can become our future Government paid Retirement Homes for all us out here with opinions that someone someday won’t like. :)

    • that ALREADY exists right now in US, the CIA/NSA/DoD is using 21st century version of nazi concentration camps-namely electromagnetic concentration camps w/directed energy weapons and MK-ULTRA (which canadians should be familiar with) illegal testing on UNWILLING US citizens and worldwide. Go to youtube.com or google these terms to see exactly what is going on in right now–the biggest human rights abuses that are being carried out in plain sight.
      directed energy weapons, remote neural monitoring, v2k, mk-ultra, CIA's mind control, organized gang stalking…Orwell was wrong on the date but SPOT on the methods and tactics!

  64. Wow- Peter, you're absolutely correct in your comment… this thread is stacked with liberals who can't see past the red on the tips of their own noses.

  65. Fear of a return of the death penalty

    The Gazette April 14, 2011 12:00 AM

    The media, including The Gazette, missed the most important point raised during the first debate, that of Stephen Harper's stated support for the death penalty. This was brought up by Gilles Duceppe as a probable issue in a Conservative majority government, yet the point bypassed Ignatieff and Layton.

    In fact, it is inconceivable that bringing back the death penalty will not be considered by a Conservative majority in its efforts to remake Canada in its own image, even though this is an issue it dares not bring up at the moment.

    Praemonitus praemunitus – forewarned is forearmed.

    Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/Fear+return+death+

  66. Fear of a return of the death penalty

    The Gazette April 14, 2011 12:00 AM

    The media, including The Gazette, missed the most important point raised during the first debate, that of Stephen Harper's stated support for the death penalty. This was brought up by Gilles Duceppe as a probable issue in a Conservative majority government, yet the point bypassed Ignatieff and Layton.

    In fact, it is inconceivable that bringing back the death penalty will not be considered by a Conservative majority in its efforts to remake Canada in its own image, even though this is an issue it dares not bring up at the moment.

    Praemonitus praemunitus – forewarned is forearmed.

    Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/Fear+return+death+

    • You idiot, the death penalty should be re-instated for serial killers, those type of horrendous crimes, why should taxpayers pay to have these evil demons/monstors stay alive in Prison!!! Are you out of your mind, not to have it for horrendous 1st degree murder crimes…..Your an idiot to think otherwise!!!!

  67. Jesse, not just police, but "public officers" as well. That means, every Director level, or above, in the public service that has some quasi-intel function will be seeking info from the ISPs. Ask the ISP's how they will they turn it into a commodity service? What will the fee structure look like? They will never keep up with the inundation of requests. The overhead will be abysmal. Like I said, I've been participating in the Public Safety forums on these bills for 10 years. The government may throw a bit of money at the large ISPs, but it's one huge sinking privacy ship. Those bills will not get ratified within 100 days; they won't get to 3rd reading in that period of time.

  68. He's a citizen of Canada, and has every right to voice an opinion, as do you. What more do you need to know?

    Jeff Bursey,
    author of _Verbatim: A Novel_,
    a parliamentary satire

  69. He's a citizen of Canada, and has every right to voice an opinion, as do you. What more do you need to know?

    Jeff Bursey,
    author of _Verbatim: A Novel_,
    a parliamentary satire

  70. "Big Brother is watching. Beware of Bad Speak." Practice Good Speak." Welcome to 1984. Not freaking likely, thank you very much. This bill would make your entire life an open book to any a$$hole in Gov who wants to dick with you. Filing a complaint with the Police Commission over something wrong you saw a cop do? Guess what, he can now smear your name for nay thing you have said or, done on the 'Net since you first went online. Joined A Cutter support group when you were a young Goth, 20 years ago? Now it's used to slag you for over your complaint. Everything you put on the "net is there FOREVER! And you don't think anyone in 'Authority" who can access anything you've ever done _isn't_ a BAD idea? Are you on drugs? What happens when your boss decides to ask his friend the cop what his employees do online and it is discovered by your staunchly Christian Boss that you belong to a bunch of pagan belief groups? Your job is 'down the road.'
    The potential for abuse is absolutely staggering! Some people, myself included are members of non christian religions that although technically protected from persecution by the Charter of Rights still face bigotry. That is a sad fact in our "enlightened" society.

  71. Dictatorship with minority!

    Majority?! LOL! can you imagine the Harper regime with a majority government?! SCARY!.

  72. Good gawd.
    Harpers stasi have been heavily engaged in exactly this from day one. (how do you think they nabbed that college girl with only one photo?)

  73. Good gawd.
    Harpers stasi have been heavily engaged in exactly this from day one. (how do you think they nabbed that college girl with only one photo?)

    • Harper SS. Ve haff vays of makink you talk.

    • She registered to the rally thru her Facebook account.

    • U Liberal sucking idiot, monitoring speech not born under Conservatives, its not a conservative platform to limit free speech, this proposed legislation born under the Liberals and will be enacted by the use of the new found powers that the CHRC will be given under a Liberal Gov't. Incidently, 25 yrs or more ago, the CHRC was created by Liberal Gov't.

    • i don't understand why we can't use this system to monitor the government and find out where our $60 billion deficit went?

  74. How can you be so stupid? The Conservatives are the ones enacting it, pushing it. Are you going to blame the Liberals if the Cons reinstate the death penalty, and your grandchild is executed? Or when they bring back mandatory conscription for wartime, which Harper is undoubtedly praying for — and your kids are going into the army whether they want to or not? That's going to be the fault of the Liberals too?

  75. I really hate Canadian media somedays – they are obtuse, they just collect a paycheque.

  76. Back to letters delivered by private messenger, carrier pigeons, smoke signals – back to the days when people knew someone could be reading their mail. Reason for wax seals. Pony Express anyone? Telepathy, perhaps.

  77. Harper SS. Ve haff vays of makink you talk.

  78. She registered to the rally thru her Facebook account.

  79. Reminds me of Michelle Focaults panopticon

  80. Reminds me of Michelle Focaults panopticon

    • Very astute observation.

  81. Harper is trying to "legislate" access … but it can NEVER be LAWFUL! Privacy is a right, NOT a privilege! Beware of Iggy, the Libs and the NDP as well. And that college girl should find a way to press charges! Enough is enough!

  82. Harper is trying to "legislate" access … but it can NEVER be LAWFUL! Privacy is a right, NOT a privilege! Beware of Iggy, the Libs and the NDP as well. And that college girl should find a way to press charges! Enough is enough!

    • Monitoring the internet, phone calls writing in to magazines, or magazine articles or writing in to the editorial section of newspapers and expressing your opinions on issues, its the Liberals that will do this via the CHRC. & NOT the RCMP!!!! Get yur facts straight all U Liberal supporting or commy NDP Jacko Wacko free lunch people!!!!

    • Not if you live in US. THERE IS no PRIVACY on internet. You might as well accept that. BIG brother, his sister, his mother and step-father are ALL watching ALL of us 24/7.

      • There's more open wifi everywhere than ever before, there's bazillions of proxies, there's thousands of Virtual Private Networks you can join for free or buy into (bazilliions more just waiting for privacy to become a popular issue – think of the profits there!) there's anonymous protocols like P4P, anonymous networks like TOR, there's a bazillions new places created every day where you can post comments, pictures, even video anonymously, there's powerful human rights groups building networks and software for free speech, there's countries and courts re-affirming the right to anonymity every day, there's our privacy commissioner saying all Canadians should be using anonymizing services, there's new technologies all the time..pay cash for a tablet and sim card…
        The ONLY people who say that you can't hide online are the cops, hoping you believe it, and some fools do.

  83. Download Hotspot Shield and make all your stuff look like it comes from somewhere else! And use a fake name! F THEM!

  84. Download Hotspot Shield and make all your stuff look like it comes from somewhere else! And use a fake name! F THEM!

    • hmm. ya I don't want hotspot shield to watch me either…..

      • That`s why you should always use TWO anonymizing services at the same time, so neither one can see what you`re really doing, and know who you really are, at the same time.

  85. I am disgusted by the sheer number of Canadians who are happy to be absolute wimps as far as government is concerned! You have been divided and you have been conquered! Most Canadians should be ashamed of themselves for letting this happen to our country!

  86. I am disgusted by the sheer number of Canadians who are happy to be absolute wimps as far as government is concerned! You have been divided and you have been conquered! Most Canadians should be ashamed of themselves for letting this happen to our country!

  87. Herr Harper is becoming cartoon-like in his attempt at dismantling Canadian freedom and sovereignty.
    His amateur low class Ad campaign ,where he wraps himself in the flag, is instant chuckles when juxtaposed with reality.

  88. Herr Harper is becoming cartoon-like in his attempt at dismantling Canadian freedom and sovereignty.
    His amateur low class Ad campaign ,where he wraps himself in the flag, is instant chuckles when juxtaposed with reality.

    • It's a copy of a Republican Ad. They told him to do it!

  89. It's a copy of a Republican Ad. They told him to do it!

  90. You are completely out to lunch. Ask ANY civil servant if the Harper government follows their advice about anything and you will be met by gales of bitter laughter. If you've really come to this conclusion after following the file "for ten years" you are in the wrong business.

  91. Similar to the long form census, no? or perhaps Vote Compass on CBC? We give information all the time and have no idea who or what will have access to it and how the information will be used.
    Issues like terrorist communication, identity theft, human traffickking are all areas where the criminals have better technology than the police.

  92. Express the politically incorrect view and you may face disclosure. Say you are part of the legal system and disclose possible wrongdoing in the legal system. Say goodbye to your career. Say you plan to sell huge stock holdings and a snoop tips other off so they can do some insider trading. Perhaps your company is going to fail. These and many other scenarios will follow this planned travesty. Some people would love to know who this author is who questions Harper's regime. Welcome to the Canadian Stazi State!

  93. Express the politically incorrect view and you may face disclosure. Say you are part of the legal system and disclose possible wrongdoing in the legal system. Say goodbye to your career. Say you plan to sell huge stock holdings and a snoop tips other off so they can do some insider trading. Perhaps your company is going to fail. These and many other scenarios will follow this planned travesty. Some people would love to know who this author is who questions Harper's regime. Welcome to the Canadian Stazi State!

    • Canada has serious credibility issues in combating corruption – this erodes freedom – democracy and costs all of us huge$$$ Our soldiers do not die in far off lands for lesser people to erode our country – either you are part of the solution or you are the problem.

  94. It%E2%80%99s all about freedom Canada – It is high time we take it back, if we ever have had it – frankly I find it scary that our security services must spy on everyone – It shows a complete lack of intelligence pardon the pun – If they don%E2%80%99t know who to go after – then they are derelict and do not deserve their large budgets – Canada is an over policed state – you would be forgiven for thinking the Taliban is lurking around the corner – each police officer costs 6 average citizens all the tax they pay in a year – good value – no way – This is affront to freedom and democracy. Mind you freedom demands responsibility – our officers should not have to deal with drunken bums and dysfunctional fools – Computer crime has been made worse because our governments and law enforcement require sub standard security so they can spy on everyone – this naturally gives way to substantially more crime and an excuse to ask for more tax dollars%E2%80%99 and cry about safety and security – what has happened to common sense?.

  95. It's all about freedom Canada – It is high time we take it back, if we ever have had it – frankly I find it scary that our security services must spy on everyone – It shows a complete lack of intelligence pardon the pun – If they don't know who to go after – then they are derelict and do not deserve their large budgets – Canada is an over policed state – you would be forgiven for thinking the Taliban is lurking around the corner – each police officer costs 6 average citizens all the tax they pay in a year – good value – no way – This is affront to freedom and democracy. Mind you freedom demands responsibility – our officers should not have to deal with drunken bums and dysfunctional fools – Computer crime has been made worse because our governments and law enforcement require sub standard security so they can spy on everyone – this naturally gives way to substantially more crime and an excuse to ask for more tax dollars' and cry about safety and security – what has happened to common sense?.

  96. It's all about freedom Canada – It is high time we take it back, if we ever have had it – frankly I find it scary that our security services must spy on everyone – It shows a complete lack of intelligence pardon the pun – If they don't know who to go after – then they are derelict and do not deserve their large budgets – Canada is an over policed state – you would be forgiven for thinking the Taliban is lurking around the corner – each police officer costs 6 average citizens all the tax they pay in a year – good value – no way – This is affront to freedom and democracy. Mind you freedom demands responsibility – our officers should not have to deal with drunken bums and dysfunctional fools – Computer crime has been made worse because our governments and law enforcement require sub standard security so they can spy on everyone – this naturally gives way to substantially more crime and an excuse to ask for more tax dollars' and cry about safety and security – what has happened to common sense?.

    • go to canadians against stephen harper on facebook to post your views

  97. Canada has serious credibility issues in combating corruption – this erodes freedom – democracy and costs all of us huge$$$ Our soldiers do not die in far off lands for lesser people to erode our country – either you are part of the solution or you are the problem.

  98. Very astute observation.

  99. Welder mentioned Michel Foucault's Panopticon in a post above. It may seemed clished, but George Orwell's 1984 also comes to mind here. It's simply unbelievable that we would be debating the "merits" of this odius proposal. With the time remaining in this federal election, I believe Canadian's attention must become focused on The Harper Guvment's flirtation with the creation of a Police State in this great nation. I am sickened by this. Totally sickened.

  100. Welder mentioned Michel Foucault's Panopticon in a post above. It may seemed clished, but George Orwell's 1984 also comes to mind here. It's simply unbelievable that we would be debating the "merits" of this odius proposal. With the time remaining in this federal election, I believe Canadian's attention must become focused on The Harper Guvment's flirtation with the creation of a Police State in this great nation. I am sickened by this. Totally sickened.

    • UR wrong, monitoring the internet is and was created by Liberals and liberal gov't will give the CHRC new powers to monitor our speech, on internet, phone calls, writing in to editorials of newspapers, magazines. The CHRC was created by Liberal Gov't. more than 25 yrs. ago.

  101. Let everyone concerned about this sorry situation do their best to make this an election issue. Fire off letters to media and politicians. If you do not your rights will be trampled. Next thing you know we may all be required to carry a national identification card as is the case in some repressive regimes with a penalty attached for not having it if questioned by authorites. Maybe I should not have stated this as it might give our "Regime" ideas including a processing fee which it could squander on some kangeroo committee.

  102. Let everyone concerned about this sorry situation do their best to make this an election issue. Fire off letters to media and politicians. If you do not your rights will be trampled. Next thing you know we may all be required to carry a national identification card as is the case in some repressive regimes with a penalty attached for not having it if questioned by authorites. Maybe I should not have stated this as it might give our "Regime" ideas including a processing fee which it could squander on some kangeroo committee.

  103. The CHRC has tabled a document that is ready to be brought to parliament if the Liberals get in. the CHRC wants to increase the power of censoring the nation, by monitoring internet conversations, telephone calls, ur talking to a friend/relative and say something like those damn people blah….blah….blah…. and you could be charged; it won't be the RCMP monitoring yur conversations but the CHRC. Don't vote Liberal if you want your freedom of speech lessened to quite a degree.
    The other thing the Liberals want to bring in the carbon tax that caused the downfall of Dion.

  104. The CHRC has tabled a document that is ready to be brought to parliament if the Liberals get in. the CHRC wants to increase the power of censoring the nation, by monitoring internet conversations, telephone calls, ur talking to a friend/relative and say something like those damn people blah….blah….blah…. and you could be charged; it won't be the RCMP monitoring yur conversations but the CHRC. Don't vote Liberal if you want your freedom of speech lessened to quite a degree.
    The other thing the Liberals want to bring in the carbon tax that caused the downfall of Dion.

  105. U all should be reading Ezra.Levant.com and his article on the downfall of free speech in Canada.

    Our free speech will continue under the Conservatives along with a new self defence crime bill that will allow someone to protect their property/store/business whatever against criminals and the one protecting their property won't get charged, the criminal will!

  106. U all should be reading Ezra.Levant.com and his article on the downfall of free speech in Canada.

    Our free speech will continue under the Conservatives along with a new self defence crime bill that will allow someone to protect their property/store/business whatever against criminals and the one protecting their property won't get charged, the criminal will!

  107. Remember, downfall of free speech in Canada under a Liberal Gov't.!

  108. Remember, downfall of free speech in Canada under a Liberal Gov't.!

  109. its not the RCMP that will be monitoring our internet, phone conversations, letters to editorial pages of newspapers but the CHRC founded by the Liberals, and if the Liberals get in ur freedom of speech will be lessened and it will be the CHRC that will monitor these conversations, editorials etc. on any comments against anyone in Cdn. society.

    Quit blaming the RCMP, this org. is doing what their mandate is to investigate crime hidden via internet etc. behind the scenes, terrorism etc.

    The Conservatives have not hampered anyone's free speech but the Liberals will with the use of the CHRC.

  110. You idiot, the death penalty should be re-instated for serial killers, those type of horrendous crimes, why should taxpayers pay to have these evil demons/monstors stay alive in Prison!!! Are you out of your mind, not to have it for horrendous 1st degree murder crimes…..Your an idiot to think otherwise!!!!

  111. Monitoring the internet, phone calls writing in to magazines, or magazine articles or writing in to the editorial section of newspapers and expressing your opinions on issues, its the Liberals that will do this via the CHRC. & NOT the RCMP!!!! Get yur facts straight all U Liberal supporting or commy NDP Jacko Wacko free lunch people!!!!

  112. THIS IS NOT THE CONSERVATIVES THAT ARE WAITING TO MONITOR WHAT YOU SAY ONLINE, IN YOUR TELEPHONE CONVERSATIONS, WRITING IN TO NEWSPAPERS, MAClEANS MAG, OR WHATEVER;

    THIS PROPOSED LEGISLATION BORN UNDER THE LIBERALS AND WILL BE PUT INTO EFFECT USING NEW POWERS THAT THE LIBERAL GOV'T. WILL GIVE TO THE CHRC.

    ITS NOT THE CONSERVATIVES OR THE RCMP THAT WILL MONITOR U.

    DON'T BLAME THE CONSERVATIVES, CONSERVATIVE PLATFORM IS NOT ABOUT RESTRICTING FREE SPEECH, OR INCEASING CORP. TAXES MAKING BUSINESS GO SOUTH LEAVING CANADA WITH NO JOBS AND NO TAX BASE TO FUND UR DEAR NATIONAL CHILD CARE OR WHATEVER UR LOOKING TO LIBERALS OR NDP FOR!!!!

  113. THIS IS NOT THE CONSERVATIVES THAT ARE WAITING TO MONITOR WHAT YOU SAY ONLINE, IN YOUR TELEPHONE CONVERSATIONS, WRITING IN TO NEWSPAPERS, MAClEANS MAG, OR WHATEVER;

    THIS PROPOSED LEGISLATION BORN UNDER THE LIBERALS AND WILL BE PUT INTO EFFECT USING NEW POWERS THAT THE LIBERAL GOV'T. WILL GIVE TO THE CHRC.

    ITS NOT THE CONSERVATIVES OR THE RCMP THAT WILL MONITOR U.

    DON'T BLAME THE CONSERVATIVES, CONSERVATIVE PLATFORM IS NOT ABOUT RESTRICTING FREE SPEECH, OR INCEASING CORP. TAXES MAKING BUSINESS GO SOUTH LEAVING CANADA WITH NO JOBS AND NO TAX BASE TO FUND UR DEAR NATIONAL CHILD CARE OR WHATEVER UR LOOKING TO LIBERALS OR NDP FOR!!!!

    • Some body's sucking Harper's you know what lol…

  114. Peter, ur absolutely correct, censoring internet, etc. even phone calls personal calls will be done under a Liberal Gov't.

    This type of lessening of free speech is not the mandate of any Conservative platform, Conservatives are for Free Speech, increased crime legislation protecting the innocent victims of crime and putting criminals behind bars, keeping corp. taxes at a low enough rate so that corps. stay in Canada create business and jobs for Cdns.

    The monitoring of our conversations will be done by new powers given to the CHRC that will be given to it by a Liberal Govt. NOT THE CONSERVATIVES!!!!

  115. u IDIOT, won't be the RCMP monitoring our conversations, & written text but the new found powers given to CHRC to do this and it will be the Liberal Gov't. that will do this. this type of monitoring has been developed and is currently just waiting to be brought to a Liberal Parliament to be enacted under already existing hate laws under the CHRC and the CHRC was formed/born under Liberal Gov't.. The CHRC will be doing the monitoring under a Liberal Gov't.!!!!! of internet, private phone calls, writing in to magazines, editorials of newpapers etc. when one expresses his/her opinions on certain issues.!!!!! NOT INITIATED BY THE CONSERVATIVES!!!! Monitoring speech is not a Conservative thing/platform whatever!!!

  116. U Liberal sucking idiot, monitoring speech not born under Conservatives, its not a conservative platform to limit free speech, this proposed legislation born under the Liberals and will be enacted by the use of the new found powers that the CHRC will be given under a Liberal Gov't. Incidently, 25 yrs or more ago, the CHRC was created by Liberal Gov't.

  117. UR wrong, monitoring the internet is and was created by Liberals and liberal gov't will give the CHRC new powers to monitor our speech, on internet, phone calls, writing in to editorials of newspapers, magazines. The CHRC was created by Liberal Gov't. more than 25 yrs. ago.

  118. Our legislators are leading us down the slippery slope. If we allow them to continue their unfettered actions we soon will live in a world where our every action will be monitored and an international dna bank will exist for our own"security"

  119. Our legislators are leading us down the slippery slope. If we allow them to continue their unfettered actions we soon will live in a world where our every action will be monitored and an international dna bank will exist for our own"security"

  120. Washington (Ottawa) is polluted by money, the sewage of civilization and the economic climate must change. that is the real threat to planet earth. US chamber of commerce is the Everest of dirty money, follow the money and the economic climate must change! . Fight the real parasite that infects us. Bill Mckibben, author on Global Warming — If you want real climate change, get out and vote NOT Harper! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdF8wz4Jwm8

  121. Washington (Ottawa) is polluted by money, the sewage of civilization and the economic climate must change. that is the real threat to planet earth. US chamber of commerce is the Everest of dirty money, follow the money and the economic climate must change! . Fight the real parasite that infects us. Bill Mckibben, author on Global Warming — If you want real climate change, get out and vote NOT Harper! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdF8wz4Jwm8

  122. go to canadians against stephen harper on facebook to post your views

  123. i don't understand why we can't use this system to monitor the government and find out where our $60 billion deficit went?

  124. Peter Hillier, you are factually incorrect.

    Having been a formal respondant to Liberal lawful access efforts I can factually tell you that those bills/consultations did NOT lift the requirement for warrants when providing customer information or authorizations. Those are BRAND NEW changes that the Conservative party has ushered in. The Conservative proposal goes considerably further, and lacks some of the nuance, of the Liberal bill. Both bills are unwelcome but the failure to even keep lawful access within the scope of the existing warrant and search apparatus is a tremendous step backwards. I can also say that the Liberal effort saw far more public scrutiny and consultation. The Conserative bill has by contrast has been introduced more quietly and with less opportunity to correct its flaws.

    Seriously, be more careful next time. Some of us have been on this issue for real and know that the Conservative take puts us in far more jeopardy.

  125. Peter, you've done a poor job of "following this file" if you have failed to notice the difference in how the Liberals did their public consultation on lawful access and this approach, and that the Liberal effort did not remove the requirement for traditional warrants and oversight. Those are rather significant differences.

  126. I wouldn't put it past him he did however push those bills thought in an omnibus before.

  127. they ALL have the choice to say "No" to this, Lib. or Con. That the Cons. have had 5 years to bury it and haven't speaks volumes of their intentions.

  128. I see what you did there

  129. I see what you did there

  130. Oh Gawd, cops doing anything they want scares the hell out of me. Cops are just people with guns and people have problems doing the right thing. Always have always will. Cops get pissed off and abuse their power as often as any other demographic group in our society so why the hell would our Gov't give them unilateral power to do anything without going thru the normal channels. I thought I was a Harper man, perhaps I was wrong.

  131. Oh Gawd, cops doing anything they want scares the hell out of me. Cops are just people with guns and people have problems doing the right thing. Always have always will. Cops get pissed off and abuse their power as often as any other demographic group in our society so why the hell would our Gov't give them unilateral power to do anything without going thru the normal channels. I thought I was a Harper man, perhaps I was wrong.

  132. I certainly have no confidence that the Conservatives will respect my right to Internet privacy when even on the campaign trail they are using supposedly "private" information from the Internet to determine who can or cannot attend party functions.
    http://www.torontosun.com/news/decision2011/2011/

    And for those who wish to claim that Harper and his cronies support Free Speech… Could you explain why hundreds of people protesting in the official "Free Speech Zone" were kettled and then arrested at Harper's G20 debacle?

  133. hmm. ya I don't want hotspot shield to watch me either…..

  134. Its not PM Harper or Conservatives that will restrict free speech, the Liberals will – Conservatism does not restrict free speech, nor business free enterprise and the making of money, creating jobs to make the country profitable and economically viable.

    NDP was and still is not for big business, it never was, increasing corp. taxes only drives businesses south where taxes are lower, result – no jobs here in Canada and no jobs means less tax base to fund all the social programs, that we can't afford, by the NDP and or Liberals.

    • Again what's with the Harper Ball sucking man you pplz make me sick, why don't you just ask George Bush to come here and lead us same thing…

  135. Remember, its the Liberals, with their great ideas of multiculturalism, which is actually modern day segregation, each group of people staying in their own neighbourhoods, speaking their own language and not integrating well with mainstream Canada; that is multiculturalism which adds nothing to strong unity of our country.
    And remember its the Liberals with their great idea of multiculturalism that, and "we can't offend anyone" that will limit our free speech, not the Conservatives. Restricting free speech is not a conservative value but a Liberal ONE!!!!

  136. sourstud 94p "people can walk down the street in any urban core and switch networks multiple times in a minute."

    No matter what anonymous public access point you use, the MAC address of your PC is registered, which is as good as a fingerprint or your street address, unless it is an anonymously aquired pc, which is never used from home, or used without the greatest precautions. Of course it is possible to get around this by using an anonymously bought external router, but how many people will go through all this trouble to post on the internet or at all have the technical knowledge to do this. Besides you'd have to change this router all the time in order not at some point being identified anyway. One needs quit a bit of knowledge to handle this in a secure way. Besides yoyr IP/MAC address, there also are many other giveaways, which will make it possible for authorities to track you down if they set their minds to it.

    But the point is not that a small percentage of the population will still be able to maintain some degree of anonymity under tremendous efforts (post an article; take a walk down the block, install your outboard router, pick a new street every time and so on). The point is, from the government's point of view, that it will keep 99% of the population under surveillance, and let them know it.

    This is not done to avoid terrorism, but to prevent public display of dissent. It works the same way in China. Dissent as such is not the governments problem. It is open, public display of dissent the controllers are interested in supressing.

    The technical side of the surveilance is not the most important; it is the fear the government installs in most people which will keep them in line.

    • You can change your MAC address anytime, it's easy, my mom can do it. But as long as 99% of people think they can't, you're right, we're right there in China. Next step is you have to "register" your computer/tablet/ipad with the govm't, then they outlaw open wifi, then you have to use your driver's licence to use the wifi at starbucks…Every time a judge makes a decision about the Internet all of these things become more necessary because you have to enforce all these laws now.

  137. As the late American journalist Ed Murrow had said: "A nation of sheep begets a government of wolves."

  138. Police find a person online doing bad things. They gather this evidence and show it to a judge, who gives them permission to obtain information on this person from their ISP.  

    Bad people still have to deal with the law. Police just have to do police work and show they have just cause. 

    CHECKS AND BALANCES assure it works best for everyone.

  139. If any of you Conservative junks had a brain in your head you would see the damage they have already done… The other day I went for an X-Ray I had to pay $60, since when did we have to pay for an X-Ray, also I have a very sick sister half of her meds are no longer covered, I really hope with all my heart that some of the voters for this party get a sick family member to see where the reset of the country are coming from…

    I am a very high paid engineer btw, It just makes me wonder what would happen to my sister if i every took sick or died, also I found it kinda odd how I got a rase on my pay check and the goverment cut $150 off her check, People only think about money and know one else… This country is not becoming a mini USA we are pritty much are… I use to be proud to call myself a Canadian now im not sure if I live in the USA.. Sorry for the grammer this subject piss’s me off so much that I would rather not re read this.

    My ending remark.. three words.. First word starts with an F and ends with a K…. Second word starts with a Y and ends with a U third word is Harper.

  140. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding, to declare that in the administration of the criminal law the end justifies the means, to declare the government may commit crimes in order to secure the conviction of a private criminal would bring terrible retribution. – Justice Louis Brandeis

    Olmstead v. United States

  141. I think it’s pathetic that people are more concerned with which party imposed or introduced this vs how disgusting & wrong it is in so many ways. STOP pittying against each other due to different political parties & start joining as one for a common cause- OUR common good.

  142. You see people this is proof that Prime Minister Stephen Harper is corrupt and does not even care about his own country or it’s own Canadian citizens.

    Know this if you start to notice that you are no longer to speak you’re mind, to worship you’re religious faith etc, or to express yourself then you will then know that you are no longer living in a free society, but in a dictatorship under a psychopathic tyrant named Stephen Harper.

    Prime Minister Stephen Harper is corrupt and is a cold hearted traitor to Canada and the Canadian people.

    Prime Minister Stephen Harper needs to be impeached, arrested and jailed for committing treason and violating the rights of fellow Canadians such as myself.

  143. People! No need to argue which political party started it!  Which ever party started it and which ever is going to make it a law is not really as important as the bill itself. We need to do something about it because bit by bit we do loose our liberties!

  144. How about warrantless wiretapping? I find it rather odd that
    the Conservative that were so concerned with the Gun Registration would not be
    concerned about warrantless wiretapping (referred to as an intercept) (warrantless
    mean no warrant obtained from Judge with no accountability to the Solicitor
    General). The authorization to start a wiretap can be determined by a peace offices
    (definition of peace officer is very broad).  The information collected can be held for an indefinite
    time even if a crime was not committed and charges were not laid.  We should all be very afraid of a government
    that allows the police (a peace officer, not your local cop) to circumvent judicial
    review and not obtain a warrant. These warrantless wiretapping activities do
    not have to be reported to the solicitor general (provincial or federal). The
    peace officer can keep the information they collected for an indefinite time. Conservative
    or Liberal any Government that makes laws to circumvent judicial review should
    not stand. 184.4 In the crime bill. One more thing, the Harper Government is
    going to keep the Gun Registration data and setup a new registration system. (That’s
    on record in the Supreme Court hearings)

  145. This may sound a little out of the box, but why shouldn’t the people of this  Country vote on these things instead of the people we elected.

    Productive criticism accepted.

  146. Ok, twits, this is not a Liberal or Conservative fail, this is a failure of the Canadian public. The public put these power mongers in and have kept themselves ignorant of what’s going on, so they will lose their privacy, along with their other rights and freedoms, our elected officials are supposed to be on the hill protecting.  I can’t wait to see who we put in to rob us of “whatever” next. I got accountability, I got a poor government because I put up with non-accountability.  I wonder when this will be dug out of the internet sewer to be used against me. lol

  147. And all the while, chemtrails are being sprayed into our skies,floridated water is being consumed to wash down gmo foods and as we sicken are treated with bad medicine and codex allemrntarious is in full swing and so on it goes.
    I’m wondering , if the R C M P or whoever is supposed to be doing the job , has the guts to take this place over and get er fixed before it’s too late ?
     Our polititions need to be charged with treason and crimes against humanity. 

  148. effing govt can kiss my ass they have no damn business snooping into what i do online.

  149. This is outrageous regardless of which party came up with the idea! If passed l can only hope that the politicians are the first to get caught it its web given how they believe that taking away Canadian’s basic human rights is acceptable. 

  150. Due process is needed.  Otherwise it becomes tyranny. Whoever hold power will always abuse it unless there are checks and balances.  This is bad legislation again from the Conservatives.

  151. What will happen to the victims and their family and friends of Police Bruatlity and Corrouption? They police will misuse this law just as they misuse all laws.

  152. Police screw up just like everyone else, but their mistakes can cause many headaches for those they have misperceived. 

    This bill is a mistake, the police have enough power.

  153. If it was “the previous Liberal government” that started this initiative and it was a bad initiative to begin with, then why is it OK for this CURRENT CONSERVATIVE government to push it through?  Oh… wait a minute… Liberal b-a-a-a-a-a-d CONservative g-o-o-o-o-d. Sorry… I forgot the meme.  With our kids about to be tossed into (private) jails, our air force flying pricey jets with no engines, our seniors being tossed on the street with no OAS and our electronic communications being pilfered through by warrantless cops… I fear Canada is heading into a season of deep and angry discontent.

    I better post this now before the Harpercrite jack booted goon squad comes to get me!

  154. The long-form census: a gross abuse of privacy. Requiring ISPs to monitor and record your Internet activity without due process: no problem.

  155. Big Brother is getting too big for his boots! 

  156. I cannot believe the gall that this fascist representative of Harper’s Government would have the balls to use a National Media Mogul such as CBC, to make allegations about myself as a citizen and honourably discharged member of the Canadian Military,  to be considered as being aligned to all Child Pornagraphers if I disagree with his Adold Hitler style governance system regarding the Conservatice Member’s Bill that is in favour of giving police overriding powers that are contrary to constitutional and democratic rights of citizens.  I would go so far as asking him to come unto my own private property and saying that to my face,  and he may even bring ten of Harper’s biggest bullies to try and keep me off of him.

  157. We are all screwed. Period. With these new laws and the mis-use of the existing laws we will have O privacy or rights left, we are nearly there now…..
    I just had a warrant served here because some random person ‘smelled something funny’ as they rode a bicycle down my road…….the RCMP actually got a warrant on that tip…….we are all fuck*d..
    just open all your doors and windows and bend over.
    I’m sure I’ll be on the new database as soon as this is posted……see you soon ass*oles.

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