The yeas have it -

The yeas have it


C-391, a private member’s bill to abolish the long gun registry, has passed second reading by a vote of 164-137.

By the unofficial count, 21 opposition MPs supported Conservative MP Candice Hoeppner’s bill, including eight Liberals, 12 NDP and one independent.

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The yeas have it

  1. Utterly idiotic. No wonder many Canadians are fed up with their Parliamentarians.

    • I see 21 MPs that must evidently feel a little more secure from Conservative challenge, given the explicitly expressed wishes of their constituents, after taking this position. So why are those constituents going to be fed up, exactly?

      • The majority of Canadians want reasonable gun control. Killing the gun registry will "save" about 3 million dollars a year after we have spent significantly more setting it up. Police still want this registry to help them fight crime. The only reason this registry is being killed is due to boneheaded politics. It certainly isn't being killed for good policy reasons.

        • Then every MP that voted for killing it will surely be unseated next election, given the self-evident worthiness of the registry.

          Let me know how that works out.

          • Politicians who have integrity will do the right thing for the collective good, and not pander for cheap political points, such as cancelling the gun registry.

            Just ask the NDP how their backwards "Axe the Tax" campaign against the Liberal's carbon tax environmental policy went over with the overall B.C. voting public. Not all that well.

          • As far as I know the bill is to remove long guns out of the registry which are rarely used in criminal situation except maybe for the sawed-off shotgun.

          • "which are rarely used in criminal situation except maybe for the sawed-off shotgun."

            Get real. Even the gun nuts admit that more family violence occurs with rifles than with handguns. Or are you only concerned about robberies?


          • Yeah, but the registry wouldn't affect or prevent domestic violence with firearms.

    • I'm with you. Completely disgusted, especially with the NDP.

      • Especially the NDP?
        8 Liberals voted to abolish the gun registry, with the ok from their leader….It was a LIBERAL initiative
        Chretien's legacy just got flushed down the toilet by his own party….

      • The Dippers are just being consistent. When C-68 was originally voted on back in 95, the NDP voted 7-2 against. (Svend Robinson voted in favour, Bill Blaikie voted against.)

  2. After all the money that was invested into the registry, it should be transferred to provinces willing to enforce it. Jean Charest's government has repeatedly asked the Federal Government not to abolish the registry and there have been requests to transfer it over to the province. To my knowledge, every single Bloc MP voted against this private member's bill. There seems to be a large consensus in Québec about the merits of the registry.

    If other provinces prefer not to have it, so be it.

    • Heh,
      you just described what is called a 'firewall'………
      I don't think there is anything stopping Charest from starting up a gun registry in Quebec (?:)
      except the ROC won't be paying for it.

      • A constitutional challenge would attack a provincial registry as an attempt to invoke criminal law-making power. If the federal government has the right to require registration of firearms, it is because it is a valid exercise of its criminal law power. If it chooses to exempt certain firearms from registration (some will continue to be registered such as handguns) that does not mean the power is conferred on the provincial government. They would have to find a legitimate provincial head of authority to justify a registry – just saying it is a provincial offence wouldn't be sufficient. It seems unlikely this is an area of concurrent jurisdicition – firearms control has generally been considered an area of criminal, ie federal, responsibility. It is possible a province could argue its a matter of property and civil rights, but the long-standing view of such regulation as being a matter of criminal law would argue against such a position.

  3. This is a responsible move. The registry has had little effect … most of the guns being used in violent crime are illegal weapons acquired through the United States and thus will never be tracked by any such registry. It is more important to focus efforts on stemming the flow of illegal firearms into Canada which is by far a more significant problem.

      • Police enjoy anything that makes their job superficially easier at the risk of reducing the average citizen's liberty. If they could have a Large Knife Registry, or a Baseball Bat Registry, they'd want that too.

        • Sure they would.

        • I notice you didn't mention a hockey stick registry. They are certainly dangerous.

          Too sensitive?

          Or is it because the police would have too much trouble with composite sticks?

          • Oh Two Yen

            Come on be reasonable. You are just trying to stir the pot with our national game. (Sorry for the mixed metaphor.)

            Why oh why is registering a long gun a problem?

          • You don't like humour?

          • We have car, boat, and property registries that are all enormously helpful to police inquires and we have survived the intrusion thus far.

            Let's face it a gun registry is at least as sensible as any of those, and the only reason it's being undermined is that large parts of Canada's population have moved into their television sets and believe we have a constitution that prevents us from having reasonable restrictions on firearms.

          • Actually those registries are all enormously helpful to the tax authorities, which is why they exist. If the government taxed guns, you can bet you bottom dollar there would be a fully functioning registry that cost only a few million to administer. But I doubt it would be very useful to the police.

  4. Since the law was brought in as a criminal law statute, I doubt an attempt by a province to continue it would survive a constitutional challenge. If it is a valid exercise of criminal law, it has to be done by the federal government.

    In any case, the provisions regarding licensing, the registration of restricted weapons, and all the other rules regarding safekeeping of weapons will remain in effect. The emotional attachment to the registry in Quebec, is just that – emotion.

    • Quebec could make it a Provincial instead of Federal offence……

  5. I would like to see numbers on how effective Con ad campaign was that targeted specific ridings held by Libs and NDP. Did those ads hold Libs/Dippers feet to the fire or would they have voted same way regardless.

    • This is how business gets done in Ottawa nowadays. No need for policy debates or thoughtful discussions anymore. We all know that this bill wouldn't have made it through Parliament without the threat of attack ads.

      I can't even blame the Tories for using this subterfuge. We, Canadians, get the government we deserve.

      So what's next? The death penalty?

      • "So what's next? The death penalty?"

        Now you are talking but, unfortunately, we can only dream.

        "We, Canadians, get the government we deserve."

        Do you think MPs being mindful of their constituents is wrong and should be stopped? I wish it happened more often.

        • Either human life is sacred or it isn't jolyon.

          If you bring in capital punishment, I'm not staying in this country, just like I wouldn't stay if there was euthanasia.

          • Every life is sacred until you start murdering others. Circumstances change after that. If I was in charge, death penalty would be used rarely but it would exist as a punishment.

            I thought it was unfortunate after Bernardo/Homolka were convicted that we no longer hung, drawn and quartered the worst of our murderers.

          • Better to let 9 guilty men go free than convict one innocent and all that.

            If you kill someone, you have no opportunity to provide recompense for an unjust sentence, and no opportunity to restore lost liberty.

      • You seem to forget PolJunkie,
        the 'people' elect their MPs,
        they are not installed by a bunch of back room boys in Toronto.

    • I'm betting those ads were very effective,
      and am hoping they are used again to get rid of the CWB!

  6. This vote is a perfect illustration why people in Québec keep voting for the Bloc Québécois.

    • Quebecers are free to stop being offended by the policy preferences of the rest of the country any time they wish.

      • avr, the rest of the country? Is there a new poll out somewhere? Because the last time I checked, the majority of Canadians wanted the gun registry.

        • No, in general, I mean.

          • ???

        • Yes there is a poll out there PolJunkie,
          and abolishing the gun registry won by 164 : 137

          And it is the ONLY poll that counts.

    • So what's your point?

      Does this mean Canadians in the ROC are obliged to think a certain way just because the pooh bahs of Quebec values tells us someting is so?

      • No. That is not my point.

        My point is none of the other parties represented Québec values during this vote, except for the Bloc Québécois. Canadians can vote for whomever they choose to vote. But whever someone says a vote for the Bloc Québécois is a wasted vote, they can look at this particular outcome and see that the only party that stood together against the abolition of the Gun Registry was the Bloc Québécois.

    • They vote Bloc because they want Quebec to be separated from the rest of the country, thus the term separatist.

  7. Why do some of the Cdn criminals rely on getting their illegal wpns from the States? Perhaps because of the strict gun laws in Canada?

    This will stop the illegal wpns from the States for sure, the Cdn criminals will no longer rely on the States for illegal wpns, they will now come from our own back yard.

    Without the long gun registry a person will be able to purchase a long rifle legally and then sell it to anybody. The possibility of the authorities tracing the rifle back to the original owner will be slight.

  8. Notable Liberal blogger Bigcitylib is hopping mad that Michael Ignatieff allowed a free vote on the gun registry:

  9. If Quebec wants a long gun registry, they can get right on it. At least it won't be subsidized by my tax dollar. The registry already cost 2+ billion dollars and made honest people criminals and dishonest people free to do business. At long last this waste will come to an end. The whole thing was a waste as it never accomplished a thing.

  10. How freakin' stupid…how utterly stupid can parliament get? We register cars for crying out loud! And yet we cannot register guns?!

    Welcome to incremental change a la CPC.

    • Are you given a 6 months jail sentence and a criminal record for not registering your car,
      on your first offence? Duck hunters are… or were!

      Under Liberal law, farmers are jailed for selling their own grain ouside the CWB and packing a rifle without going on line to register……

  11. Some people seem overwrought about this. There are is still a registration process that needs to be followed, it's not like we are going to be able to purchase rifle/ammo at the corner shop.

    • I don't think they really care about reality.
      Most of them likely gagged at the GG eating raw seal meat….

  12. My Father-in-Law is going to be pissed, he just went through hell to register his new hunting rifle.

    • "he just went through hell" – which is why the registry should be dumped. Do you go through hell to register your car? your marriage? the title of your house? (well, maybe the last one)

      My cousin inherited a non-functioning shotgun from my grandfather and could have been jailed for not registering it. How stupid is THAT?

      We can track a cow from inception to the table (or at least the supermarket) for pennies on the dollar, but it cost over 2 billion to create an equivalent databases for long-guns? Really? For crying out loud, pay some junior programmer to change the code on the madcowtracking software from "cow" to "gun" for what, maybe (if really poorly written code) $50k?

      LOGIC, people, LOGIC.

  13. What. The. Hell. Opposition? I count on you to, you know, do the Opposition thing. That is, oppose bills that are patently insane!

  14. Yep, a potential gun owner still has to face the FAC , complete with RCMP investigation and training course. The Long Gun Resistry was/is redundant, how many perps use registered weapons?